>> here's some of what we're covering wednesday, president george h.w. bush leaves the u.s. capitol after lying in state for two days. the departure ceremony is at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. at 11:00, the state funeral is being held at washington national cathedral. president trump and the first lady will attend along with many world leaders. president george w. bush will speak. on c-span 2, a forum on the country's aging infrastructure, including remarks from peter defazio, the ranking member of the house transportation and infrastructure committee, and the senate returns to consider bernard mcnamee to be a member of the energy regulatory commission. coming up on today's "washington journal" a look at the life and legacy of former president george h.w. bush on this national day of mourning. we'll speak with former

congressman dingell, clarence page, and peter from the ethics and public policy center. we give you a chance to share your thoughts on the 41st president. "washington journal" is next. host: it is wednesday, december 5, 2018. flags over the capital at half staff as the remains of late president george h. w. bush continue to lie in state. at 10:00 a.m. they will be taken to national cathedral where a state funeral will be held. we will talk about the life and legacy of america's 41st president later on "washington journal." we begin with a different event that took lace at the capital yesterday. -- took place at the capital yesterday. gina haspel --

senators convinced the saudi crown prince ordered the killing of jamaal khashoggi. the trump administration and lawmakers dispute what it means with the -- for the saudi relationship. how should the u.s. respond to saudi arabia over the khashoggi killing republicans can call at>? -- killing? republicans can call at 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. on twitter it is @cspanwj. on facebook it is facebook.com/cspan. you can start calling in now as we show you the reaction from senate foreign relations committee chairman bob corker yesterday after leaving that cia briefing on the death of jamal khashoggi. >> i have no question in my mind the crown prince ordered the killing, monitored the killing

and knew exactly what was happening and planned it in advance. if he were in front of a jury, he would be convicted in 30 minutes guilty. the question is what do we do about that? unfortunate, but i think they feel like this is something that has come and passed because the administration has not spoken of it in a mannerto that gives them immunity. what the message is to him and those around him is you can go around killing journalists, countries like the united states can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you killed a journalist and they renditions other people and tortured other people that have been dissidents. themessage we have sent to is one that will cause him to

continue on the path he is on and i am sure other actors in the region will take note of that. somehow or another, it is unfortunate and i am continuing to urge the administration to speak to this in the appropriate manner. >> what do you want them to do? >> this has got to be strongly administration, strongly condemned and are has to be a price to pay for what has happened. host: here is the front page of the new york times, a picture of gina haspel. she was on capitol hill yesterday to pay respects to late president george h. w. bush and for that briefing with leading senators. it was a bipartisan briefing. included in the briefing was a ranking member of the senate foreign relations committee, bob menendez. [video clip] say i am nowply

more convinced than i was before and i was pretty convinced that the united states must have a strong response to the war in yemen as well as the killing of the united states permanent resident and journalist in jamal khashoggi and only a strong response by the united states will send a clear and unequivocal message that such actions are not accountable -- acceptable in the world's stage. i hope senator graham and my legislation, which will create a real set of consequences, a series of sanctions beyond those that exist, would be a strong answer to what has happened here. host: the new york times story we pointed out before saying the clear and unusually biting assessment put democrats and republican senators at odds with

the white house, which refused to cast blame on saudi arabia's leadership in the grisly death of mr. khashoggi. jim mattis and mike pompeo were on capitol hill talking to members of congress about their findings, what they knew about the death. here is a reminder of what they said last week. mr. matus said there was no smoking gun leading to the crown prince and pompeo says there is no direct reporting connecting the crown prince to the murder of jamal khashoggi. we are asking you how the u.s. should respond to saudi arabia over the khashoggi killing. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. .ndependents, 202-748-8002 we will take you through more reaction from some other senators who were at the briefing yesterday and some who were not. we especially want to hear from

you. daniel in washington, d.c., a democrat. good morning. caller: thank you, good morning. i hope this incident in turkey with the murder of this journalist helps to make americans much more skeptical about our foreign policy, our military aid programs, our arms sales to countries like saudi arabia to question what is our relationship with saudi arabia, how disruptive it is. electedrealize we have a very dangerous man in the white house and the presidency officeis a destructive that must be emasculated for the good of the planet. i hope we had a good experience today with george bush's funeral. let's not forget, as head of the

cia, he was involved with the killing and overthrow of -- which ushered in at kids of dictatorship in chile. the war in -- of central america was run out of his office which we are still, to this day, experiencing the dangerous -- damaging results to el salvador, guatemala, honduras. please, everybody involved with nuclear weapons is a criminal to read a violation of international human rights. please convert the economy to peacetime. host: you mentioned president's george h. w. bush -- continuing to lie in state beneath the rotunda behind me at the capitol building. will do so until 10:00 where at which time there will be a departure ceremony for the state

funeral taking place at national cathedral. we will be covering it all on c-span today and we will be talking quite a bit about the life and legacy of the 41st president later in the washington journal today. speaking to this conversation about what to do about the relationship with saudi arabia -- it is wrong and i think that guy did have something to do with killing. he bought some buildings off of trump and they are backing him up, he says no and this and that. he violated completely by getting rid of that guy. i don't care what anybody says. you can tell looking at his face that he had something to do with it. it's a shame we have to let this -- that wasse already said before he bought

stuff off of them. the only reason they let him go prices.lowered the oil if people ared going to stand by this stuff, it is wrong and now i am thinking donald trump is a dangerous man. as a person that served in the military -- as a father that served in pearl harbor, i think it is a bunch of baloney what you are doing. host: that is rocky in florida. a reminder president trump did ofgh in himself at the end last month, november 20 the president put out a lengthy statement in part saying king salman and the crown prince vigorously deny any knowledge of planning or execution of the murder of mr. khashoggi.

our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information. it could very well be the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event. maybe he did and maybe he didn't . we may never know all the facts surrounding the murder of mr. jamal khashoggi. our relationship is with the kingdom of saudi arabia. they have been a great ally in our fight against iran. the united states intends to remain a partner of saudi arabia to maintain the interest of our country, israel, and all partners in the region. illinois, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. c-span.hank you for i would like to ask your viewers when a senator like corker says

-- would be convicted within a -- the crown prince would be convicted within a 30 minute jury trial, why this president continues to try to defend the murderous action of an employee of the u.s. free press? president continues relationships with murderous northors whether it is korea, russia, or saudi arabia and his positions are not .umanitarian i want to ask people to think about -- trump never fully disclosed his conflict of interests. he broke precedent with decades and decades of past presidents' actions and when we have someone in the white house who has all these questionable conflicts of

interest with his financial relationships, how can we trust that he is acting in the best interest of the citizens of the united states as compared to the interest in his family. i want people to stop and think about these things. they are impacting our image of the united states across the world. alliesationships with and putting the world in a very dangerous position. trump himself is not a dangerous man, but her -- his positions are dangerous. host: cornelia in idaho, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. i want to thank c-span for all of your coverage of our great past president, george bush, but also, i do think the format of your programming maybe could -- i appreciate what you have been doing lately to having groups

opposing or supporting because it seems like this killing that happened is becoming political and people that support our president are defending him and people who are opposed to him are using it to you -- to jump all over our president. just think about putin and the dictator we have now in china who is trying to destroy every freedom of the people of china and we are still supposed to deal with these people, but we cannot be wise, i think, in our decisions if we oppose people over this thing because every dictator has got things -- their hands are dirty with the killing of many people, i am sure. if we really wanted to look at that. host: before you go, do you think senator lindsey graham is someone who usually supports

president trump? caller: yes, i do. however, the president is the president and i think he has advice from many people that probably no more even than senator lindsey graham. i think we have to give him a little bit of leeway in his decision-making. i think the disrespect for our president in general. this is another political thing to bash our president. i think we need to step back and give him a little bit of a chance to do the right thing and i would encourage our american people to pray for our president and pray he makes the right decisions instead of continually disparaging him and trashing him for it everything under the sun. is senator lindsey graham after leaving that cia briefing on capitol hill yesterday.

[video clip] >> here is my take away, that saudi arabia is a strategic ally and the relationship is worth saving, but not at all cost. we will do more damage to our standing in the world and our national security by ignoring mbs than dealing with him. the crown prince is a wrecking ball. i think he is complicit in the murder of mr. khashoggi to the highest level possible. i think the behavior before the khashoggi was beyond disturbing and i cannot see him being a reliable partner to the united states. saudi arabia and mbs are two different entities. if the saudi government is going to be in the hands of this man for a long time to come, i find it very difficult to be able to

do business because i think he is crazy. i think he is dangerous and he has put the relationship at risk. grahamore from lindsey in a little bit. we are talking about this for the first hour of the "washington journal" program, asking how the united states should respond to saudi arabia over the khashoggi killing. republicans, it is 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. having this conversation after a busy news today in washington yesterday. here is another one of the top stories. michael flynn helped substantially with the special counsel's investigation and should receive little to no prison time for lying to federal investigators. mr. flynn was a key cooperator who helped the justice interviews with

mr. mueller and others. they wrote, he might have prompted others to cooperate with the inquiry. the decision to plead guilty and cooperate likely affected the decisions of related witnesses to be forthcoming. those prosecutors indicated mr. flynn helped with other investigations without revealing details about those investigations. in the wall street journal's coverage, they note tuesday's filing was about 12 pages in total, much of it redacted. it did not provide details about the specific information. that story is being watched by many. has more details come out, we will let you know. the case of michael flynn and other trump eight caught up in the special counsel's

investigation nearing resolution. marking an active week for mr. investigation. by friday, he is expected to enumerate how they believe mr. manafort violated a plea agreement and separately outlined the extent of cooperation by mr. cohen. heer stone said yesterday invoked the fifth amendment in response to a request by the democratic investigators for the senate judiciary committee to hand over documents and testimony relevant to the russia inquiry. we will keep on top of that story as the news continues. back to your calls about the u.s. response to saudi arabia over the killing of jamal khashoggi. chip in colorado, good morning. caller: hi there. i believe in god.

iam in my early 60's and always have believed. i have never been a member of any organized religion. i learned a lot and love a lot from all religions. i thought for about 20 years there was a double steal going on between american christians and israeli jews that somehow they come together and want to be allies with saudi arabia. i does -- just don't understand and when 9/11 happened, almost every hijacker including bin laden -- who did we attack? iran.ack -- attacked it seems there is this deal between israel and the usa that they need to defeat all the arab saudiies except for arabia. that will be our ally friend and that is what has to happen for the fruition of judaism and christianity. they already want to go to war

with iran. now it is time to defeat iran. host: what do you think the united states should do? caller: i tell you honestly, the idea of ever selling more arms to them is ridiculous. we should never sell arms to them even if they get rid of mbs. i understand we are over a barrel in terms of the oil. i wish we were energy dependent and would buy not one drop of oil from saudi arabia. will the wall street talking about the two main legislative options lawmakers have when it comes to this issue . the senate voted to advance one of those, a resolution to withdraw support for saudi-led forces. top administration officials urged them not to do so. the second legislative option

was a bill by senator menendez and sen. graham: would suspend weapon sales and block people aid rebels. it would also sanction those responsible for mr. khashoggi's death. ed is an independent, myrtle beach. good morning. are you with us? we will go to robert in indiana. republican, good morning. caller: i would like to send my prayers to the bush family and to our country. of this thing in saudi arabia, it tells you in the last days, we are going to have rumors of war, there will be riding in the in the -- rioting streets pretty look what we have got. people better open their eyes and get into the bible. jerusalem was made the capital of israel, right?

the second world war created israel. the jews went back to israel, that is god's people. with nation will be at war israel. we might as well face it, it is coming, we cannot stop it. god says it is going to happen. these people are big shots and think they know everything. this country knows nothing. we have idiots in the white house. senate, congress, the whole thing. host: you called on the republican line, did you vote for donald trump? caller: yes, i did, and i would again. host: you just said we had idiots in the white house, why would you vote for him again? caller: all they want to do is pick on trump. this -- get this stuff that hillary clinton done and all these other characters. i get sick of hearing this crap.

host: stephen in lexington, kentucky, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i just want to say some of your viewers and your callers seem like they have lost their minds. just criticizing trump and what the white house is doing. the previous caller's comment about nuclear weapons. nuclear weapons were not invented by republicans, they were created during the democrats in the 1930's and 1940's. some people have to get a grip on things. this is the world we live in right now and we do not live in a perfect world. we have to deal with -- the previous caller says we are talking to people in north korea . in order to solve the problems with north korea, you have to talk to them.

. it's not the country, is the person in charge of doing the killing. through there going roof and we have to use common sense to solve the problems instead of throwing gasoline on the fire. host: you mentioned north korea, some news on that front. president trump canceled a second summit meeting early next year with kim jong-un even -- johnorth korea bolton, the national security advisor said in the nearly 6 months since the singapore meeting which president trump heralded in a tweet declaring with korea no longer a nuclear threat, pyongyang continue the production of nuclear fuel and weapons. mr. bolton made it clear the next summit meeting would have

to set a schedule for north korea's compliance. that is some of the reporting from the new york times. ross and washington, d.c., what should we do about the future of the u.s.-saudi relationship? caller: thank you for taking my call. i think your previous caller hit the nail on the head quite eloquently. live in, how many regimes has the united dates overthrown? how many murders have we been complicit in around the world? israel killed people all over the world. ,ermany, russia, england everybody has. where are we going to land our planes if we stop doing business with the saudi's? no one else will allow us. allies in that region.

we are dependent on oil and we have to realize what the middle of this winter up in minnesota or new york will feel like with gas or oil at three dollars or four dollars a gallon. it is ridiculous. it is unfortunate this happened, but we need to use common sense and work through the problem. thank you for taking my call. host: back to florida, joe is a republican. caller: i was calling on the subject, the khashoggi alleged murder of course was a terrible thing. whatem to pick and choose we are going to be outraged at. people -- i better not say most, a lot of people just don't like trump at all. i voted for him, he was my last .hoice

i appreciate some of the good things he has done. khashoggi, i read up on him a little bit. he was not an american citizen and he wrote columns for the washington post. he supported the muslim intherhood, was very active that and fell out with egypt over that muslim brotherhood and then saudi arabia. in that part of the world, they don't live by the same standards we do. when you go and start attacking them, they take it pretty serious. they probably killed him, and it is terrible. just added to the list. some of your other callers commented on some of the terrible things we have done. i know we got rid of -- i believe it was down in chile.

and the guy in vietnam, we did away with him. say just added to the list, are you saying there should be no consequences in the international committee? caller: no, sir. i am not sure what that should be. one or two callers ago said that is the world we live in today and everybody is a little bit crazy. he is certainly trying to do good for the country and if he runs again, i haven't seen anybody the democrats are going to put up that i would vote for. i would vote for president trump again. host: that is joe in florida.

here is more from senator lindsey graham on what next steps congress should take. [video clip] >> i am going to try to get a sense of the senate resolution where we all bowed and designate and the yes as one of the days -- mbs as one of those responsible for the death of mr. khashoggi. i now have overwhelming belief that is the case. what do you do about it? i want to make sure saudi arabia is put on notice. i will not look at the kingdom the same way i used to look at it. arm sales support until all responsible for the death of mr. khashoggi have been brought to justice. i will no longer support the war in yemen as constructive. 7:30 for thisp on first segment of the washington journal, we are asking what the

u.s. response should be over the khashoggi killing. phone lines for republicans, democrats, independents as usual. you can weigh in on social media as charlie did on facebook saying the u.s. no longer has principles, so nothing should be done. edward says relations with iran and make the world safer for everyone. facebook, cease all business, restrict weapon sales. that is a few of the social media comments. on facebook it is facebook.com/cspan. on twitter it is @cspanwj. members of congress also weighing in yesterday, including those who were not at the meeting for leading senators for gina haspel. senator rand paul was not there, but here is what he had to say,

they bomb civilians in yemen, political dissidents in jail and reckless in the middle east. now is the time to stand up and say this behavior is unacceptable and the united states will not stand for it. richard blumenthal saying my colleagues' reaction to the cia briefing indicates pompeo and mattis misled congress. mbs is responsible for the brutal, premeditated murder of khashoggi and the trump administration is covering it up. mike pompeo and jim mattis coming to congress last week to talk about what they knew and what they know about the death of jamal khashoggi ahead of that senate vote last week. this continuing to play out on capitol hill. paul in florida, independent. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. flake, bob corker -- bob menendez, they are all

anti-trump people. this guy is preaching to us about what we should do? i think we should do what is good for the united states. i don't think this*/-- we should be involved. host: is lindsey graham and anti-trump republican? this is hisink view, this is true. there are some republicans that feel that way. i think we should take what is good for our country. -- 100% sureould it can be proven this guy was killed by the prince. 100% sure. in raleigh, north carolina, democrat. good morning. caller: first of all, let me on thes an authority

middle east. i lived in saudi arabia for three years and traveled around the region. also as a representative of more than 50% of the muslims in the united states, which are black american muslims. let's make that clear. has always had an ultra orthodox version of islam in the region. you have all of these black americans going over every year struggling this strict -- studying this strict form of islam that is very anti-western and anti-american. let me state this very clear. let me state this very clear, more arabia has never been or less than a good friend of the muslim world. everybody knows that. it is the kingdom and as

muslims, we don't believe in kingdoms. these people put themselves in have many reasons and instances of gobbling up money and riches and things of that nature and not helping the poor, muslim countries such as bangladesh and all these poor countries. saudi arabia is not even like in the muslim world, let's make that clear. the policy dealing with yemen and saudi arabia has been a very contentious relationship for a musttime and america re-examine its relationship with saudi arabia. thank you, sir. host: what were you doing when you were traveling in saudi arabia for that time? caller: i was teaching. i have degrees. i have been teaching for several

20 years and so forth and so on. host: what did you teach? caller: excuse me? host: what did you teach? caller: i taught english, many subjects. arabic and i was learning arabic and now i speak arabic fluently. many muslims in america have been to the part of that world. it is not really like even in the muslim world. we have to examine our relationship with them. host: did you face any restrictions on what you teach or how you taught or did you have any interaction with the kingdom, the government? caller: i did not have any interactions with the government and don't want any interaction with the government. i did not go over there for the interaction with the government. i went over as a citizen to

teach. i was hired for my expertise. host: thank you for telling us about it. jim from annapolis, maryland, republican. go ahead. caller: i think everybody is looking at the question should the u.s. respond to saudi arabia and the question is how should we? when we look at how the united states should respond, it should come from our people and should come from the legislature, ourously, but we elect president prete i am a republican and voted for donald trump twice. think weoint, i don't can necessarily agree. we have all gone through the 1970's, we know the power of

.oney know can't corrupt and we the power of the saudi arabia and money. , the power of all -- the power of all money. in this instance, the previous they are trying to create a different culture in saudi arabia to become modernized, to become a different type. many fled to another part of the mr.d and in this instance, khashoggi was a critic of a , which you could call it a monarchy, but you could also call it a dictatorship if you like and he is speaking freely as we speak freely in our

western culture, as the previous caller so clearly made. it is a muslim country, a country which we have always otherwith as a buffer to within thements middle east. host: that is jim in maryland talking about reaction here in the united states. an interesting story in today's washington times. a liberal political action committee on tuesday placed an unofficial khashoggi way street sign outside the saudi embassy in washington, d.c. to protest of the involvement of the saudi crown prince -- in the october 2 killing of jamal khashoggi. the story pointing to claude taylor, a former clinton white house staffer.

the foggy bottom advisory neighborhood committee, whose jurisdiction includes the saudi embassy, approved a resolution to rename the section of new hampshire avenue in front of the embassy as jamal khashoggi way. neither the d.c. government or congress has approved such a change. the story pointing to mr. taylor saying he made 12 signs, this is just the first he intends to put up. david in new york city, a democrat. good morning. c-span.good morning, thank you for this. i appreciate this very important topic and i want to divide my comments into two parts. one thing about mr. khashoggi. i believe after weeks of shift -- stubborn body of

resistance within this administration that they do not want to accept that our relationship with saudi arabia at this particular time is poisonous to our democracy, to what we stand for. why are they doing it? for what reason? first and foremost, it is definitely financial. i believe it is definitely financial. i believe trump views saudi game. as a zero-sum either we are with them or not. it is unbelievable. donald trump is an inexperienced person in diplomacy who only salmanges mohammad bin to continue murdering journalists for a few barrels of oil. i believe we could get them out of power and still have friendly relations with the saudi's. his hand soaway

easily that saudi's think they can walk all over us. weak.makes us look it's about yemen. if i were president and saw what saudi's did with a journalist, and innocent washington post journalist with a bone saw, i would immediately stop selling them arms. it is about time we ask ourselves, what has -- have millions and millions of poor yemenis done to saudi arabia? mohammad bin salman is a war criminal, guilty of the deaths .f an estimated 85,000 children he is a monster. we must get rid of this bloody oil and think about it, america. it is about time we think about -- do we really want to have a relationship with a country so murderous with a man so criminal? nd to thisuld put an e

as soon as we can. in columbia,n south carolina. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i agree with senator graham. we only get 7% of our oil from saudi arabia. we don't need them. we don't need saudi arabia's oil. the next thing i want to say is -- host: go ahead and say it, don't listen to your tv, talk through your phone. lying, a drafts dodger and making things bad for the whole world. all of the dictators and tyrants have been emboldened by him. all of his followers. everything he says without -- all of the fact

his followers parrot everything he says without looking at the facts. they did not want that lady to testify before the senate. they all came back with the same conclusion that that guy did have the reporter killed. host: that is jonathan in south carolina. we are having this conversation on the "washington journal" in the wake of cia director gina haspel's briefing with leading senators on capitol hill. not every senator was invited to the briefing. few andnly a select there were plenty of senators that had something to say about that, including senator rand paul. here were his concerns about other senators not being kept in the loop with all the information. [video clip] >> some are saying there is no smoking gun. what is being reported is there

is a smoking gun. there is communication from the killers to the crown prince's office. i think the time has come for the senate to grab back foreign policy and say no president, this president or the previous president has the power to take our country to war with saudi arabia and yemen without the permission of the senate. -- the white house is preventing the cia director from breathing the full senate -- briefing the full senate? >> the definition of deep state is when there is no oversight prete i have been arguing for nearly a decade that with intelligence, it is only given to a few people within our system. that is more like an oligarchy. not everything is about trump. there are 8 people in congress who get briefings on intelligence. that is not democracy. that is not democratic representation or oversight. the information needs to be shared widely with those who are

elected. why should someone elected in california get the information and someone in kentucky not get the information? host: that was senator rand paul yesterday. if you want to watch the statements by senators before and after the cia briefing, you can do so at our website, c-span.org. we have about 15 minutes left in the first segment of the "washington journal." asking, what is the future of the u.s.-saudi relationship after the death of jamal khashoggi? john in south carolina, republican. go ahead. caller: good morning. i would like to make this statement. i feel like about 90% of the media picks and chooses what they're breaking headline story is going to be of the day. i was just wondering why this guy that loves the muslim

, whateverd, khashoggi his name is, is more important than seth rich. i think we can learn a lot more about seth rich's killing on the street, he was an american citizen. the media just about virtually ignored seth rich's story except fox news. they were the only ones that said anything about it. i am wondering why foreigners, muslim brotherhood lovers, people like that are more important than people who get killed in this country that are american citizens that can really and lightness about what is really going on, the corruption and the corrupt news. 90% of the news media. host: here is some of the reporting on jamal khashoggi from last week, some of the latest on this murder. the wall street journal reported the cia determined in a classified assessment that prince mohammed bin salman said

at least 11 messages to his closest advisers who oversaw the team that killed mr. khashoggi in the hours before and after the journalist's death. the saudi leader told associates in august 2017 that if efforts to persuade mr. khashoggi to return to saudi arabia were not luredsful, he can be outside of the country with "arrangements" made for his return. the assessment seems to foreshadow the operation launched against khashoggi, the one that took place in turkey. we are talking about what the future should be with the u.s.-saudi relationship. charlotte, independent. go ahead. like to say we need to get the president out of that office. he does not know what he is doing. the congress and the senators

need to get their stuff together what a good man john mccain and president bush and my all time favorite president, kennedy, that fought foughtwars and my father in world war ii, served two rounds and my youngest uncle was killed at barely age 22 in normandy, france. and what has trump done for our country? host: you mentioned world war ii, george h. w. bush, the last president to have served in world war ii. we will be talking in about 10 or 15 minutes or so with one of the last members of congress who served in world war ii, former congressman john dingell, the longest-serving member in the

house about life and legacy of george h. w. bush. stick around for that conversation, having that conversation in the 8:00 hour leading up until 10:00 this morning when the former president's remains will depart capitol hill headed to the state funeral scheduled to take place at 11:00. it will be a busy morning starting in a few minutes in washington, d.c. randy in iowa, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i have been listening to this and my head is swimming with facts over the years and my point would be that we are not calling this what it is. .t is a political assassination the united states congress and the united states senate have laws against the american government using political

assassinations. it goes back to the -- murder henry kissinger was involved with and molecular to -- manipulating of an election for it i believe it was 1968. and we areat this not calling it what it is. trump is turning a blind eye to political assassinations around the world because they buy american arms. all the while, in our country, democracy is fading. you have the gop manipulating elections in north carolina and wisconsin -- do what north carolina did a few years ago and cripple the governor. when the people decide they have had enough of this republican theage and walking

tightrope, the economic tightrope where we have to have cheap gas, we have to have this .nd that corporations keep getting tax cuts and the rich get richer and we are headed for totalitarian rule. i give you the optics. donald trump in his little tv set with all the goldplated furniture like he was putin and some of these other eastern block presidents and dictators and it is just -- a big charade and the republican party and the rank-and-file that keep this fraud going and they choose to go down the road of a week democracy and not listening to the other point -- the other half. take up any not

more time. i think i made my point. in tennessee, a republican. caller: thank you for taking my call. people, give me a break. saudie been dealing with arabia for years. this is an internal thing. we would not want saudi arabia coming over and telling us how to run our government. you better wake up, folks. this democratic party is so corrupt. it is all about money and any chance they get to denigrate trump, they are going to. i would recommend you vote for your local officials, go to the voting booth. if we can trust our elections anymore. it was the democratic party, i believe, that was messing with russia. it is ann you say internal thing, does it matter to you that mr. khashoggi was a

permanent resident in the united states? caller: hell no, it doesn't matter to me pretty moved to the states for cover. we cannot protect anyone -- everyone in the world that goes against their monarchy. he knew better. he should have kept his mouth shut about the monarchy because he knew they were going to go after them. what did he do? he moves to the united states and protect -- expects us to protect him? now we have all this discussion and the government is all upset, democrats, republicans fighting against -- about it. it is a distraction. we need to get down to the business of saving our democracy . these people who constantly go against trump because he is for the american people and wants to save our democracy and get corruption out of washington, that is why everybody is so against trump in washington. they are little babies who are

being threatened. you say about the people concerned about what message this sends to people who speak up against monarch three -- monarchies? caller: let's ask the bush's about the message with saudi arabia. they hosted the prince and no one ever asked them about the saudi's. you know what? i bet you anything they were beheading people back then. host: danny in fairfax, california, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i completely disagree with the last caller. it is not an internal thing. we can bring sanctions and i feel like this could define the presidency of donald trump. my boyfriend voted for him and i am willing to give the guy a chance, but come on, stand up, grow up. this is really heinous.

it is not ok for the saudi's to do it. host: what would standing up be? what do you want to see the president do? caller: i want to see the toughest sanctions possible. i would want to see sanctions against oil, the entire kingdom. that is it, yeah. host: about five minutes left in this segment of the "washington journal." asking you how the u.s. should respond to saudi arabia over the khashoggi killing. also wanted to point out a few of the other headlines in today's papers. from usa today, the campaign arm for house republicans hacked during the 2018 election cycle exposing sensitive emails. ian prior confirmed tuesday the cyber intrusion was by a

"unknown entity." an fbi investigation into the attack is ongoing. the hacked accounts along to four senior aides of the nrcc. speaker paul ryan was unaware of the attack until they received questions about it this week. politicocials told information was withheld so as not to compromise the investigation. none of the compromised information has been made public. politico, usa today, and other papers have that story. the incoming majority leader of the house, steny hoyer said democrats might refuse to seat north carolina republican next year unless and until " substantial questions about the integrity of his election are solved." steny hoyer saying those comments yesterday to the washington post as north

carolina election officials investigate whether an operative working on behalf of mark harris illegally collected in complete ballots from voters. - a new threat to harris' candidacies adjusting even if the narrow victory is certified by the state, harris could be subject to a month-long process in the house to determine whether he is ultimately sworn in. back to your calls. beverly has been waiting in north carolina, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. these people have no heart. murder is murder. i have to say this, too. trump's son-in-law is a very good friend of this prince. has nationaln-law security clearance and contacted this prince about all of his

enemies. i hope this man was not on the list. trump loves money. the top floor of his hotel in new york is owned by the saudi's. these saudi's, every one of those planes that did harm to us saudi's.ere driven by i don't know why we think we have to keep friendship with them. i just don't understand it. we know what kind of people they are. they are not doing anything for us. they are destroying the world and trump is not the only one. closell have this relationship with them. we need to cut them from our list and leave them alone. it is all about money now. trump loves money. he has no values.

he knows if and when he is through with america being president and he is friendly with these people, he will always have somewhere to go and gain more money. that is what it is all about for trump. hank ine more call, south carolina. republican, go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. thise never even heard of khashoggi guy before all of this come about. hello? host: you want to finish your comment? go ahead. caller: i never even heard about this khashoggi fellow before this killing or whatever happened. what is the big deal? i hate for the guy to get killed, but there are people over there that get killed every day. they cut your head off if you steal something. he stuck his head in a hornets

nest and got his head cut off. they live by a different code. you say something that about them or their family, they don't forget about it. it could be 10 or 20 or 50 years, they will get you back. he talked about the wrong people. he people. he knew what he was doing. it come back on him. host: that is hank. next,st color today, up the late president continues to lie in state in the capitol rotunda. a discussion on his life and legacy ahead of his memorial service and state funeral at the national cathedral and his final departure from washington, d.c.. we will be right back. ♪

announcer: sunday on q and a. >> i worked with for people who once were future presidents. jimmy carter, bill clinton, barack obama, and donald trump. best --, publisher of best selling nonfiction books. >> i can't understand about donald trump. this is profoundly important for the way things work now. donald trump and his -- in his heart of hearts believes he always wins. been ina guy who has withork real estate

gambling, boxing, wrestling, beauty contests, television, construction, never been a target of a criminal investigation. that is astonishing in new york city. announcer: a conversation with the publisher. sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q and a. announcer: when the new congress takes office in january it will have the youngest most diverse freshman class in recent history. new congress, new leaders. watch it live on c-span. starting january 3. c-span's live coverage of the state funeral for george h.w. bush continues this morning with the departure from the u.s. capitol at 10:00 eastern followed by the funeral service at the national cathedral at 11:00. with eulogies from george w. bush. minister,adian prime

former u.s. senator, and presidential historian. president trump and former presidents will be in attendance. today's ceremonies continue at one: 15 pm as the former president departs joint base andrews arriving in houston at 5:30 p.m.. live coverage of the public viewing incident learns -- a visible church on thursday morning live coverage resumes at 11:00 eastern for the funeral service followed by the burial at the george h w bush presidential library at 5:15. watch full coverage of the state funeral for president george bush who live this morning and thursday on c-span and c-span.org. listen on the c-span radio app. announcer: washington journal continues. for the remainder of our program we will be talking about the life and legacy of america's 41st president. and to begin the conversation, joining us on the phone is the

former representative donna dingle. who holds the record of the house and congressman dingell, the late president wrote the fourth for your book that came out this week. you mentioned that he gave you a label that you wore proudly. he called you a giant pain in the as. can you explain that? >> we were great friends. i will tell you what i called him because he has passed on. both --er is -- we book thatsaid in the -- go ahead, sir. was a veryactually decent, warm human being. he was a guy with whom you could get along. and with whom deals could be cut. the business of the nation could be conducted in an orderly and intelligent fashion.

it was something that cannot be done today. which is a very great stain upon the world -- the good order of the united states. think, is states, i strong enough and good enough to survive the bad times which we are going through. we must pray and we must work together and understand something else. that is we have got to understand that we are americans and that we love this country. and that we have to work together to situate the country is going to have to be carried by its citizens who love it and who believe that it is time for us to review and see what it is must be done. bush was thent last president to have served in world war ii. you're one of the last members

to serve in congress who served in world war ii. what does that mean and what is congress losing with that generation? it was a sad thing. you have to understand, the new crops and ventures are coming in every day. to take over and to replace those of us who left. the revolutionary war, veterans of the war of 1812. veterans of the civil war. mexican war. and all of these other wars that have taken place. we did it because it was our duty to do that which we had to do. of this,the world we which is the greatest country in the history of mankind. we mentioned that the book that came out in the intro that the late president wrote for bestbook, deemed the

steeped in the house, it came out this weekend. in that intro, you said that your book made him nostalgic for a time when washington was a bit more civilized. when was that time? guest: caller: caller: -- caller: we were friends from the beginning of his career. heht through the time that left the presidency. even after that. there was understood a congress and it had to work together. also, the individuals inside the congress had to work together. and they had to work together to accomplish the great goals that this country has to achieve to free andnd to remain a a strong country. that is very, very important. to the united states.

if we don't understand that, and we don't all work together, this country is going to collapse. host: before you go, you mentioned in your book that your friends, families were friends, some of your children even dated. some of the bush members of the bush family, was it unusual for two members from different sides close?aisle to be so caller: it was not unusual. as a matter of fact, it was a usual thing. is different. with the nothing wrong members of opposite sides of the aisle coming together. after all, the republicans are entitled to have a little fun every once in a while. and not to have to live like republicans do all tied in knots and all afraid of dealing with

members of congress or the kids who are the children of those membersthe children of of the republican congress. host: former representatives john dingell. we had it together. we fished together. i had all kinds of republicans on that trip. hunting and fishing. the only was i did not take were those who were not comfortable and not careful. because theygo were a danger and a threat. i won't tell you who they were. i will tell you that we have to see to it that safety is observed and that kind of thing. of how tells the history we got along together. how we worked together. and how we compromise. that heush understood

had to work with the democrats and the democrats understood that we had to work with democrats and with republicans. if we did not do that, the business of the nation was not done and the business as a country was not accomplished. and you see, a situation where washington is now. terribly deadlocked. because we have people in washington that think that stopping the government is the way you run a country. it is not. host: former congressman john dingell. we always appreciate your time. the dean in the house talking about your service from 1955 to 2015. we will talk to you again down the road, sir. and have a bless you great day. god bless the united states of america. we have to save it from some of these fools that want to ruin the country. host: for more now on the life

and legacy of the late president george h w bush we turned our panel discussion this morning. clarence page is a line -- longtime columnist. we are joined by pete, who served in both bush administrations. i want to start with you. as america says goodbye to its 41st pregnant president this morning. how shall we take the measure of a presidency? you do it by what happens and by what didn't happen. with george bush, both things matter. was the country better because of his stewardship, was it more together, more decent, to the person uphold the constitution. qualities as ahe human being that we look for and that we prized? there are a lot of different factors that you look for in

terms of judging a presidency. it stems from the time in which a president serves because qualities are needed in some situations that aren't as important in others. if you are at war, peace, a domestic crisis. a foreign-policy crisis. i think if you took george h w bush the time he served, the things he did, the things that he prevented from happening, i think he looks awfully, awfully good. in light of his record and with the perspective of history. host: same question, what matters when we just presidency? i quoted mymorning friend patrick buchanan. a well-known conservative who ran against george bush in 1992. cut a percent of the vote in new hampshire primary at the time and rattled the establishment. i would say was the beginning of a lot of the division we have seen since then. newt gingrich. the house.

etc., etc.. i asked what his thoughts were. was an george bush was american closer. a closer is someone who calls in a significant conclusion of a business transaction. to make things to a satisfactory conclusion. or in the eighth or ninth inning of a baseball game, to bring things to a satisfactory conclusion. george bush happened to be a president at the time of the berlin wall came down. that the cold war was ending. i think he may well be remembered the longest for having rung that to a satisfactory conclusion. when we were worried about civil war breaking have come also etc.. brilliant works. his temperament worked at that time. he was able to juggle the many sides of that. we saw in him someone who really was good at bringing people

together. someone who liked the vision thing. which is the memorable quote. you can seed it have a vision. i understand better than ever, when he said new world order at the time," that backfired because it was misinterpreted by a lot of different people. he was talking about in order that we now see under attack by the current president. -- do another multiple multilateral alliances beard to bring about a new peaceful pro-democracy world. that is getting rolled back in a lot of different places right now. this is a time that we can appreciate george bush at the time when some of his good works are really under attack. we will be talking about america's 41st president for the next hour 15 minutes. we will end the washington journal today at 9:30 this morning. and take you up as preparations get underway, then, for the

departure ceremony that will be taking place from the president lying in state. the president's casket expected to leave the capital and about 10:00. the sticking penal today at 11:00. the president will then go to andrews air force base and arrival and departure ceremony there expected to take place about 1:15. the president's casket will go to houston, expected to arrive there at about 5:30 eastern time. where the president will lie in st. martin's episcopal church in houston. that is the schedule for today. we will be covering it all on c-span this morning. we want to hear from you on the life and legacy of the late president george h w bush. phone lines, as usual this morning. we will put them on the screen for you to start calling in. as i take our panel to c-span's presidential historians survey. last year, c-span asked 91 different presidential historians to rank the 43 former

occupants of the white house on 10 attributes of leadership. 20th ahead bush and of ulysses s. grant and john quincy john quincy adams and behind andrew jackson and john adams. highest mark on crisis management and international relations. is that where he was at his best? guest: it was. he was a person whose history prepared him for international affairs. director of the cia. when he was vice president, he had the most interest in domestic policy. was not the thing that really captures the mezzanine -- imagination. for policy was. he was very, very good at it. i think he was known to be good and able and competent. at the time, his clearance was saying as the years have unfolded, we have seen just how impressive he was. of thew, from the time -- of postwar time began. late 1940's. thentil the very end of

1980's, if you had said the soviet union disappeared from this -- the face of the earth and that that would happen without essentially a shot being fired, without a cataclysmic war, that would have shocked people. the way that george h.w. bush help you that, not just that, very tricky the unit reunification of germany. european continent. very skittish about what germany was going to be reunified. george h.w. bush felt like it should. he had the ability to pull that off. there was the gulf war, when it is great successes. getting iraq out of kuwait in 1990. the coalition that he was able to put together. nafta. which he expanded to include canada. acid rain agreement. which was a precursor of the global warming. i think it was international him thethat interested

most. i will say that the team that he biggerich was dim estate, cheney, defense, colin powell, that was one of the most impressive foreign-policy teams ever assembled in american history. host: on where george bush received the lowest marks. to setting720 comes an agenda and vision. 23rd on public persuasion. vision thingthe again could both elements are important. a public persuasion, being able to sell, i think the most destructive issue of bush was the tax issue. he made the promise of read my lips, no new taxes. as he was doing that, i love to hear what you think, as he said that the republican convention has said he is reading the lines. this part is in this because he knows that this you can't make a flat promise of no new taxes.

it is all said by democrats. ronald reagan raised taxes. it's times, 12 times, whatever during his ministration. revenue enhancement or something else. he was pressured into it by the democrats. the fact is that reagan knew how to sell a tax increase. bush did not. when the time came and newt gingrich stormed out of the room, furious that bush had allowed that to happen. it backfired. host: i do want you to weigh in. here's the moment from 1988. >> rule out raising taxes. i will and the congress will push me to raise taxes and i will say no. they will push and i will say no. they will push again and i will say to them, read my lips. no new taxes.

host: the sign waving and cheers after that pledge. a good political moment but it came back to bite him. it was a nice line and worked as a campaign speech. but i think it is right, it was not true to him. george bush was not a great natural, talented politician. he was a great public servant. it was difference. he knew the pros of governing. he did not know the poetry so low. said, thatt clarence is quite right. he suffered tremendously because of the tax increase. the ticket of the because of the revolt and the republican party led by newt gingrich. reagan did raise taxes. the tax increase and 82 is the largest increase in american history.

a can get away with it with couple reasons be one was there was a pond that he had with the republican party and conservative movement that nobody else had. he could do that. some people squawked about it. but it was not a revolt. there was a lot of hesitancy and trepidation with george h w bush that the like he was an interloper, not one of them. his lease was a lot shorter. when he did the tax increase, he came to regret it. whether it was the right thing to do or not. he did underscore equality of george h.w. bush which was a threat on his life. that was courage. he knew he would pay a price for it. he did it because he thought at the time it was the right thing to do. host: remind viewers what the goal was. i was in the administration. i worked for william bennett. yet been secretary of education to ronald reagan. part of the regime that reagan administration. the office of pest control policy. then i was deputy director of

speechwriting for a couple of years. for his son. and then i was director of the office of strategic initiatives. i was in the george w. bush white house for seven years. a lot of my understanding of george h.w. bush came through the eyes of his father. just on that for a moment. it was an incredible relationship. only one of the really extraordinary political families in american history, but certainly one of the closest. since been said a lot george bush the elder died how much he loved his family. it was also not simply that his family and his kids loved him, they revered him. to a person, they said he was the greatest man they ever knew. aboutn could hardly talk him without tears rolling up. when he did the 2000 convention speech my friend wrote a column in the post, he wrote about

this. they had to cut a member. cut back the section and convention speech of him speaking at his father because it was just too emotional for him. will make the eulogy today very interesting. with us this morning until a little after 9:00, taking your calls, phone lines as usual. in charleston, south carolina. a purse, go ahead. caller: i would like to let america know that george h bush was not perfect. he ran on the primitives of people's fear. hold a gun get out of prison and ravaged white women alike understood. thank you. from this headline today the first page of usa today. bush's civil rights record six. guest: it was fixed.

i always felt that his heart was in the right place. back in your he was involved in the naacp. he was always one who was on the progressive side. also -- they were political reasons whenever he went for office. he would stick his elbows out sometimes. that is where i would see the lawyer horton affair. it was something, his own campaign did not run the ads. for the people who do not know who that was, he was, well, he was a convict who walked away from massachusetts program. and this was a program that led to michael supported as go -- governor. he was linked to it. first by democrats in the primary states. the aspirations. later by people associated, who supported the bush campaign.

in the campaign. they put ads on his picture. frightful looking fellow who became this iconic bad guy. therefore, he should be afraid of him. attackd not hesitate to the fellow program. he did not talk about bully horton specifically. the tv ads did. something that helped george time there ands 88 helped him to beat dukakis. . he did not help himself are much for being too unemotional to avoid the issue during a debate with bush. then, by the time the 92 he was a came along, different bush appeared a different set of people supporting him.

including conservatives who were angry at him over the tax increase. this time, he lost. host: on the legacy. guest: i think clarence said it very well. if you're talking about a civil rights legacy, it is good from yelp to he actually voted for civil rights legislation when he was a member of congress in texas. on the legislative side, he did well. he pointed to african-american. controversial because of his judicial philosophy. the willie horton ad, he went through the history of it, people interpreted the ad largely on whether you are liberal or conservative or republican or democrat. the people who defend george h.w. bush in that ad make the following argument. the program was real. willie horton did go out on furlough program and he did -- he had been a murderer and did rape people afterward. was made the ad effective

not the race of willie horton, it was the crime that was done. if you have been a white person and still would have been a legitimate issue to go after. i understand counterargument. -- was a campaign director. he had admitted that the republican party in the late 1960's, southern strategy, they used racial codewords to do that. -- was involved for the campaign. i understand, if you watch the ads, you can interpret it differently. kind of a dog whistle. i don't know because i don't know the motivations of the people that ran it. sometimes i don't even know my own motivations. even if you thought that george h w bush was wrong. to begin with, what the caller said, he was not a perfect man, he was not that she never would have said that he was. never one -- none of us are. i think that if you take george h.w. bush as a human being, as a man of integrity, strength,

ranks very,ge, he very high. it does not mean he was perfect, it does not mean that he did not make mistakes. who was he was a person estimable and have a lot of integrity. host: justin is next. just did a really job discussing the issue. i'm also troubled by the lack of discussion on president bush's legacy across this time. cia director and vice president as well. ofterms of his support school americas and the iran contra scandal. for the means instability of central and south america and how he can treated to it. really interested to see how you that troublings aspect of his legacy. it is a long, long story.

what's of arguments have been over the years in regard to the story of george h.w. bush. the larger cia policy. cia's role in the larger foreign policy of the united states. a lot of it is false history. legendary history of surrounding what the cia did a lot of it also. quite factual and accurate. was involved in overthrowing governments and assassination plots, etc. over the years. i think, if i'm not mistaken, george bush is really remembered for his reform efforts. more transparent, if you will. if that is the word to use with the cia. as i said, you know, we do have

good reason to have intelligence in this country. i am a vietnam era veteran. look at ken burns's series on the war and see how from the very beginning intelligence was our biggest problem. that is the biggest problem in a lot of wars. i want to see a more infective intelligence service and so did george h.w. bush. guest: thank you for your service in the war. right,, that is exactly the worst things to happen in terms of the cia did not happen on george h.w. bush's watch. who came inure after what was called church committee. investigations which revealed a lot of the darker side of the cia history. he is very good in that job. he is revered by the cia. and by impressive people in the cia. after george bush. he worked at that she worked really well with democrats. he did make it more transparent and open. he helped bring back the

oppressed age and confidence in the agency. was not a director for a very long time. he enjoyed it. he appreciated what they did and the integrity of the people and difficulty of the work of the cia. it is not an easy job. it has to be done. it worked well under him. the formerabout president legacy with the news media. his relationship with the news media. this from an interview from 1999. ryan lamb. the former president talking about that relationship and his interactions with the news media. here's what he had to say. >> i did not write that editors, i did not write the publishers want present. i wrote one of letter when i was -- i thought smeared by an ugly story about being disconnected because of the scanner. i never knew what a scanner was. and what we had done is brand-new technology.

and most of the other media people reported it that way. in a convention. unveiling new machinery. how you can take a crushed package and show the price tag on that. i said this is amazing. some lazy little reporter for the new york times sat in his office, was not even there. road he is out of touch. does not know you can scan groceries. story lived on. even though acb-esque i said this is unfair. everybody else, most everybody else jumped on the guy that wrote the story. it is still there, caught up in one of your big computers somewhere. i saw a favorable story about a wall street journal this year. i am out of it. it referred that it was too bad he was not connected in the scanner thing showed that. met kind of thing would get angry than it should. i did write a letter and the rest of my presidency at halting going to- some guys

watch this and say here's a letter. i don't think i ever directly, personally appealed to a publisher, picked up the phone and said this is the lousy story you guys are doing. maybe i should have done more of it. george h.w. bush should have gone the other, never invented the internet. clinton, who did not hold up traffic as lax airport. getting a $500 haircut on air force one. every president has these stories that give out inaccurately reported that get corrected later but it does not matter because the full story sounds more true than the real story. because if it's the stereotype. that is what happened with bush. he was at the grocery scanner and that figures the yell leader

has never been to a grocery store before. i sympathize with him. he never had the impression that this was a person -- purposeful thing, a conspiracy out to get him. rallies andht at showing off a bumper's ago that said annoy the media, vote for bush. i have heard you juxtapose his relationship with the media against the current president. yes.: the lid president comes out much better. he never referred to the presidency is the enemy of the people. in that clip that you played, it was sweet. that really did capture him and both of his humanness and there is a touching side to him. i will say in comparing h w bush are in sotrump, they

many ways the antithesis of each other. in some ways and policy. the view of america and america's role in the world. free trade. temperament. was a man ofsh tremendous experience. cautious.udgment and donald trump was a person who has no experience for the president. very bad judgment and is volatile and his temperament. beyond that it is just sort of the core decency of the two people. one of the things that george you is a person of deep empathy and sympathy. they were human stories that moved him. he never wrote an autobiography. partly because he was a person him as was imprinted in

a child about humidity that humility and modesty. , all the best, george bush. his letters.ok on he was one of the greatest letter writers in american history. the point is that they were letters of people that he andhed out to and, and, felt an attachment to. donald trump has no empathy. no sympathy. he's missing the gene. area,ow, an area after professional public character and all the rest, the contrast between george h.w. bush and trump could not be sharper. is thatple are saying is what is happening in this capital, in this country now. sometimes, there are virtues that you take for granted in individuals. and you don't appreciate them.

when they are stripped away you realize why they matter. george bush is helping us realize why certain virtues he embodied matter. host: south carolina. good morning. can i please have a couple of minutes it is a lot stamp act. not just mr. bush but the bush family. if you really want to know a lot about the individual you will have to do the research. i believe this gentleman's name was peter wainer. he stated the fact of her his family did influence ampyra people were meaningful to look at the history of the bush family. you have to understand that if you are a former director of the cia and you become the second ,ost powerful man in the world

just the things you have known, we need to understand part of cia policy. whether it is what they were doing in the golden triangle during the 70's or -- tied to a tree and shot and killed. this gentleman has his hands on the strands of many global affairs events. this gentleman has his hands on the strands of many global affairs events. i just find it really disturbing . sort of like when steinbrenner died. no disrespect to him. we really need to be more objective in our approach when we try to describe individuals. a former graduate of yale. a member of a secret society post. when you read terms like new world order and to your research

because we don't want to be a conspiracy crazies. host: got your point. guest: i agree we should not be conspiracy crazy. if you believe that being director of the cia is automatic disqualifier, i don't agree with it. this individual sounds like he does not think the cia should exist. that is just in reality. you need the central intelligence agency for all sorts of reasons. being a member of the skull and bones society, yale, not sure what that is supposed to. also a member of skull senator, i'me sorry. in 2004. election.

kerry, also a member of skull and bones. nominated by each party. it gets everywhere. host: in alpharetta, georgia. go ahead. caller: thank you for answering my phone call. politics, we really need h.w. pushback. trump is killing us. we are disrespected. i voted for him. i don't know why. of all presidents i wish we had him now. think about all the times that are going through right now. it is horrible, my friend. we need to get rid of this trump guy. we can impeach that guy and go back to normal decency.

what is going on in the world is horrible. like 6500 he says lives -- lies, the sky is lying all the time. host: -- guest: we are being tested as to how much we care about ethics. a lot of people are transactional. the ends justify the means or what can i get out of this relationship here it the whole function of having international relations or domestic relations. or serving constituencies who did not vote for you. it is up to the voters. we are already seeing it in these midterm elections. a rising movement of concern by the voters who want to see more

ethics in government right now. more accountability. you have talked about the late president and the love of his family. his familyty of members visit the casket and he was playing in state yesterday on capitol hill. today's washington post, jeb bush with a long with jeb -- baker, one of the columns, the bush foundation has been putting out a series of videos. about what the late president wrote in his diary. this is one about his reflections on aging and his family. dear kids, this letter is about aging. last year there was only a tiny sense of time left. sand running through the glass.

i want to put this aging on hold for a while now. be on thepect to a-team anymore. i want to play golf with you and i want to fish or throw shoes and i want to rejoice in your victories and i want to be there for you as you get a bad bounce in life and no doubt you will. when i say be there i mean in the game, in the lineup. involved in your lives even though i might be miles away. if i shed tears easier now, try not to laugh at me because i will lose more saline and that makes me feel like a sissy. it is a day to cry if you are a happy man. all bush's cry easily when we are happy are counting our blessings or sad. out in thefinishes city is getting hotter and the wind colder, i will be making

some notes so i can add to this report are getting older. remember the old song i will be there ready when you are, i will be there ready when you are because there is so much excitement ahead. so my grandkids to watch grow. if you need me, i am here. devotedly, dad. guest: that is a very moving letter. sonowed that to my wife and over the weekend. when i saw that. i can't get through it. without getting choked up. it is beautifully written. it is so authentic. it demonstrated a person. the order of the love. this is a man who had the right order of loves. family and friends and faith and country.

the self giving people in american politics. that kind of letter to one's children his, is, is priceless. , speaking of bush letters, i have been personally touched by a letter he sent to colleague of a mine in our washington bureau when she was in the hospital. who did not know bush. had a my colleague was a house reporter. that tim's sister was in the hospital and got her a dress and sent her a handwritten note, which he was so famous for. just routinely. that is where you saw that deficit become really concrete feel a reallly did

attachment to a connection with other people's lives. son jeb bush and former chief of staff and secretary of state saying he reached the pinnacle of power by living the virtues that make for a good was cut, loyalty, trustworthiness, humility, reference. world, such concepts seem old-fashioned. easy to dismiss. the sex are wrong. old-fashioned, more than 2300 years ago, aristotle believed the virtues of prudence, temperance, courage and justice were vital to mankind. george w. bush embodied them all. he made the world a better place because of his adherence to that. you can read the column in today's washington post. independent, go ahead. thanks for taking my call. in response to a previous caller that you had talking about being

objective about the legacies of george w. bush or jerk -- george h.w. bush. i think that we should be objective and how he handled the aids crisis to at the tail end of the crisis when he was president. he did not do enough as president. unfortunately, it has resulted in some of his inaction on the issue. more people died as a result of the hiv virus. i was wondering if you thought that perhaps there were mistakes made in that field, in that area of his presidency. guest: there probably were. that, it was a presidency was not without, without flaws. and not a person without, without flaws. i think the advanced it from where it was under the reagan administration. a lot of time, you look back, totorically, with decades view things and say we got this wrong.

we did not understand the gravity of a certain moment. the eight crisis was a large one. in retrospect, the government, reagan andernment, bush administration, probably should have been more aggressive in what they did. i'm not an expert and would have to go back and check the record. he named magic johnson to an aids commission. hope earlya lot of on. magic johnson ended up leaving because he felt like not enough was being done. that is what you have to do. one term, to term, you have to support through the things. having served in three administrations for a lot of history, that my iq was 80 points higher before i went in government. 80 points higher when i left government. it is a heck of a lot easier when you're on the outside as a writer, commentator. unfold. things seeing what works and what does not work and what was missed.

i and our jive's it to being a quarterback in real-time versus being a coach watching it on tape. this receiver was open at this point and you should have hit him and this running back should have picked up the blitz. this was not perfectly executed. it is different when you are aaron rodgers and you have 2.3 seconds and a blitzing linebacker in your face. it is harder than anybody thinks. liberal, conservative, republican, democrat. what government is about is getting most things pretty right, not messing up on a really large thing. sometimes getting some really important issues right. it was not a perfect presidency. not a perfect man. i think all things taken together, and present as a human being and as a president. the column in the new york times, a story that they wrote about, he did not bleed on aids.

a mixed legacy. this is some of that story. critics said mr. bush did not do enough to fund aids issues. he was critical of policy proposals like a needle exchange that activist believe could help slow the spread of virus by the end of his term, hiv and infections was the leading cost of death for men in the united states from 25 to 44 according to the cdc. guest: i remember those days very well. reagan had more criticism for his sluggishness. the crisis hit him personally. in hollywood where we were hit by this awful disease. -- magic johnson's case shocked a lot of people. many of us -- remember in the early days of the eight crisis, a lot of people thought you cut it out of the air. if you're just in the same room with somebody with aids you would get it. strange believes.

jerry falwell was preaching this is god's punishment for the gay rights. i try to look at this objectively. in the sense that reagan was slow that he did not respond. elder george bush was slow because he did not respond. the younger george bush came along and blew me away with the money he put into fighting aids in africa. he was starting to do that by his connection with a christian community. so, a lot of things could happen. different thing, you know, from the inside and looking at it from the outside. over time, we should all learn some lessons and use them to make all of our lives better. hope our current president picks up on that. host: ronald, good morning. caller: this is ronald from massachusetts. tommy y president trump, if he is doing this, a military hop. i'm trying to get a military hop

out of massachusetts. senatort get to see john mccain. now, it is president bush. i thought he was going to help the military. is ronald. we will stick to the life and legacy of george h.w. bush. it brings up the question of donald trump at the state funeral today. the use of air force one in the transportation of the late president remains. can you talk about what role he will play today? will be interested to see what role he plays. he has a reduced role. traditionally, the sitting president would speak. george bush spoke at the funeral of bob reagan and gerald ford. bill clinton spoke at the funeral was richard nixon. that is the norm. know, there is a tense relationship between trump and the bush family. beyond that, in a deeper way, it

--because they are family their families to for so many different things than trump does. i think it was a sign of grace and graciousness that george bush did invite trump to the funeral. not the person, he is inviting the office. and it is out of respect for the president and the presidency. i think it is an effort to try to bring some kind of healing to this very, very toxic time. it is not going to become double. hillary clinton will be there. secret whena state the senate former presidents don't look at donald trump and see a person that they admire or hold up or have esteem. i hope that does not detract from the event because this is an event to honor and remember george h.w. bush. not donald trump. plays a reduced

role in that he is able to get his tweeting and his actions within the confines of normality. and tradition and decency. and let's hope that when this thing is done, the country feels a little bit more unified than it does now. host: you mentioned the role of former presidents. here is president george h w bush. his answer when he was asked about the role of -- a president should play after they leave office. >> i think each one has to make up his own mind. there should not be one formula fit for every truman wrote this book about after you get out of the presidency, one chapter. what to do about former presidents. he said he suggested making former presidents members of congress for life. the worst idea i've ever heard of.

-- boringrder meetings and not voting. each one has to find it. i respect to the others for what they do. --t we have decided to do is help some of these relief callts and what i used to helping community. going to our library. others.o help no definition of a successful life that does not include service to others. that is what we are doing. with much less visibility and the reason for that visibility is if i started getting high profile and giving press conferences, writing up and pieces, some guy would rush down to scott and the white house and say look at the nutty said and what do you think. there is no reason for me to kind of still be elbowing my way onto the stage. wantly, because i do not

to complicate the lives of the 43rd president. it has been a little of an adjustment. it is a pretty easy way to do it. we are very happy. have a great life. i should note that event was from february of 2006 in houston. arbara bush was receiving medal of outstanding community service. guest: i love the idea of having retired presidents have nonvoting positions in congress. retiring journalists should be allowed in newsrooms and just quick tongue's save that is now used to do it in the old days. , whateat thing about that we are seeing now with around remembrances george bush, like john mccain is a new appreciation of the institution of the presidency. what that really means. i have been saying at all my life. i really feel it now because i

think this is where we see what do we expect. what should we expect from a president. and what do they do after they get out of office. this is always an intriguing question. have you ever wondered about that with the bushes. i can't wait to see what donald trump is going to do. host: georgia. go ahead. caller: thank you so much for this opportunity to -- that you are giving america today to share our feelings and talk about what our wonderful, marvelous, wonderful life that we are celebration today. talkfor ones who did not much about his legacy, i think you'd be rather pleased with the comments from all across america about, you know, just what a fine president he was and a kind, gentle person he was. i did not know him personally. ourlt like i did because of very good family friend.

the late congressman sonny montgomery from mississippi. cu, they were the best of friends. handball partners. they enjoyed many, many different things together. i felt like i need george bush because of sonny. thatreflects the fact president bush surrounded himself with such a fine people and, certainly, sonny was one of those as well. andeart felt sympathy thoughts and prayers go out to the bush family and thank you so much for letting us have the opportunity to pay tribute to him today. host: thanks for the call. the new york times today with their photo spread on the various people who made it to washington to come say goodbye to the late president in the

rotunda at the line in state. it continues until 10:00 today. your thoughts on the number of people and what you have seen from people as they have made that trip into the rotunda to sickened by. guest: i will start actually with the sun. george w. bush. the pictures, you could see that grief was etched in his face. it has been very, very moving. you have seen people from all walks of life, different, different backgrounds. for braces. different ethnicities. there was something about him that really, him being george h.w. bush, that touched him and moved their heart and they felt like they wanted to be here and to see him and to say goodbye to him. the kind of magical moment in a life of a country. a kind of fonts that happens between leaders and the people. it is a more fist thing. hard to explain why it matters. it does matter.

, youyou see it manifest know something significant is going on. we are at a time now where we need healers. and he was a healer. it's kind of fitting that his last act as we lay him to rest feel the country. yesterday abdul stood -- bob dole stood up to salute his friend.

>> i served in vietnam era. , iing been in the service

wore the uniform proudly and i cannot say that it didn't change my life to be part of the great fraternity. i have known bob dole for years. his wife elizabeth. --is a man who developed gave himself to public service. he was literally blown up and paste back together again -- inced back together again military hospitals. he gave almost everything to his country and spent the rest of his life giving more to his country. when i see him giving that salute which means everything to folks in the service, your part that great fraternity. bob dole was part of the greatest generation. he represents a lot when he gave that salute. it's one of those moments i got into journalism so i could

witness because that's history happening. host: about two minutes left in our segment. brian has been waiting in connecticut. go ahead. caller: it gives me great pleasure to say hi clarence page because i have been reading his opinions for a long time. my main purpose in calling was know thatter wehner i have been reading his opinions and commiserating with his over thend frustration way in which the honor and decency of the presidency has been besmirched. i think it is just supposing that -- juxtaposing that with george h.w. bush has been one of the beautiful sidebars of his death. comparing his honor, decency, patriotism, service to what's going on with this grafting

that's happening in washington. i just wanted to let you know that we are out here and we are with you. host: brand in connecticut. peter wehner. poem that a 20th-century british poet wrote on the traits of heroes when they pass away. he begins the poem by saying continuing -- those who were truly great were born the son and traveled toward the sun and they left the vivid air signed with their honor. it's a lovely cone. george h.w. bush left the vivid air signed with his honor. and we needed him and we will miss him. bush mentioned in a 60 minute interview that his dad hated the l word, legacy.

as we sit around thinking about george h.w. bush and his contributions and his era because every president does affect the era that we all share. i see that he really had quite a profound legacy that becomes more and more profound the more you think about it that gave us all a lot of guidance for the future. i just have to say to the late george h.w. bush, thank you for your service. clarence page and peter wehner, thank you. up next on the washington tornal, we will continue take your calls on the life and legacy of the 41st president of the united states. you can start calling in now as we take you to national the funeral ise set to begin this morning at 11:00. we will show you some of the sights and sounds.

we will take your calls in just a minute.

host: the state funeral at national cathedral set to begin at 11:00 this morning. the remains of the 41st be leaving the lying in state at the capitol at 10:00 this morning. later this afternoon they will depart from andrews air force base with an arrival in houston scheduled for 5:30 eastern time. they will arrive later in the evening at st. martin's episcopal church and the late president set to lying in repose

there overnight tonight. america saying goodbye to its 41st president. we are talking about the life and legacy of george h.w. bush. phone lines this morning until about 9:30. eastern or central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific time zones (202) 748-8001. david is up for us denver, colorado. good morning. caller: good morning. do you still have peter and clarence page with you? host: we don't. what would your question have been? caller: my feelings about h.w. are mixed. i was in panama in the air force when we invaded to remove noriega.

also active duty when we invaded iraq to force him out of kuwait. i thought those were positive things. i thought it was positive the way he dealt with the breakup of the soviet union and german unification. side how dohe other giving --e bush clarence thomas. how do i reconcile being so easy for bush to walk away from being pro-reproductive rights. and i guess i'm working on all of that this morning as we look at his life. host: are you going to watch the state funeral and the various events that are happening today? caller: yes. yes. it's important. dave in mechanicsburg,

pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say i have mixed feelings. i'm a republican. i am pro-life and pro-trump. i do have mixed feelings when himer 41 -- i did vote for whenin the spring of 1980 he was running against ronald reagan in the primary battle. i voted for him again in 1988. i think he was a very good president. the fact that he risked his life even though he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, risked his life and went over and fought in the south pacific during world war ii. ithink that was fantastic to was a pleasure getting to meet him. i met him in gettysburg in 1980.

i met him and barbara the same year. i know the close bond that the bushes have their children. and that is something that we really have to respect. the close bond the family has. i wish i would have been able to get to washington to view the casket. i wasn't able to. family verythe bush well. that casket expected to stay in the capitol rotunda until 10:00 this morning. a departure ceremony will take place. the national cathedral will be where the state funeral will take place at 11:00. there will be a motorcade from capitol hill to national cathedral.

people leading up to get inside for the state funeral this evening. that motorcade expected to pass by the white house this morning along the route to the national cathedral in northwest washington. it's going to be coming down pennsylvania avenue. you can see the streets being cleared already ahead of that motorcade. here are some of the front pages this morning from newspapers around the country. , legacy of bush service as the headline. the front page from the main newspaper, the sun journal, crowds on a bush -- honor bush. paying respects to bush. joined the crowds of everyday americans in the picture they used showing , the yellowully labrador service dog.

jan in yorktown, virginia is next. go ahead. caller: thanks for having me on this morning. i'm a retired u.s. navy news. -- nurse. i respect him so highly and his family. wasmiss him and think he the kindest man in the world and really pray for him and salute him from my heart. thank you. fred in lorton, virginia. go ahead. caller: i work at the pentagon. president trump declared this a federal holiday so i asked can i still come to work and he says no, you can't come to work. bush in kuwait.

in 1999. he came there. he was a little platform thing and all the troops were lined up. and he had a cup security guard guys. -- couple security guard guys. says, come onh 41 in. formation.ke up the the secret service guys were like oh my gosh, what's going to happen. soldiers that absolutely loved president bush. this was maybe seven years after the assassination attempt on him in kuwait. he spoke to the soldiers for

about an hour. teleprompter.no there was no three by five cards. just all from the heart. he spoke from the heart to all of these soldiers. predominantlywas about patriotism, love of country. duty, honor and country. make sure you keep in touch with your family. make sure you keep in touch with your loved ones. and this is the kind of guy that he was. and a decentorable man. he shook hands with all these young soldiers. privates, they lose.

like, i wanted to shake his hand, too. no, i forgot to give this moment to the young soldiers. the privates. ls. corporat i'm not going to muscle my way in and shake hands with this honorable president as much as i admire him. i missed that moment but only in deference to given that moment for all these other young soldiers. host: thanks for sharing your story this morning. fred works at the pentagon. federal office closed today in honor of the late president. also the new york stock exchange, nas deck close today. stock trading resuming thursday. a day to remember the 41st president. john in houston, texas. good morning. caller: good morning and thank

you for taking my call. huge fan of george h.w. bush. mys about the same age as dad was. my dad volunteered when he was 18 as well. so i do believe character and experience matters. i think what we just witnessed with your past two guests, especially clarence page, is a bit disingenuous. the two of them are talking about george h.w. bush and his character and his experience and his qualification to be president. where were they when bush was running against clinton? does character matter then? and they talk about the tumultuous times we're in. let's not forget the tumultuous times we were in in 93, 94 and 95 with that president. this is not extraordinary moments in history. the media needs to do what they are paid to do. ask the hardd,

questions of each candidate. would we have been better off with romney or with mccain? did we do well with an inexperienced senator from illinois for eight years? what exactly did he accomplish? is, let's get the best president we can every time. character and experience does matter. thank you. you are in houston. the president's casket expected to arrive in lying in repose overnight. do you have new plans to head to saint martin's? caller: actually thank you for that question. i told my wife a couple of days ago i'm not missing this opportunity. i've had a couple of times.

i met 43 when he came one time when he was campaigning. i'm not going to the church. it's very congested. logistics are tough. it's going to be extremely crowded. instead we're going to try an hour and a half north of houston to small-town in the train will -- northht by their pre- of houston, to a small town, and the train will pass right by their. -- there. this train is going to plug along so everybody can stand out there with their hand over their hearts and this man. it's just a wonderful thing to be able to celebrate his life to thank you.

-- life. thank you. host: we will take you up to capitol hill to continue watching the scenes for the departure ceremony. that will include attribute to the late president and a motorcade that will take the president's casket to national cathedral. we have been showing you scenes from inside and outside national cathedral this morning. we are taking your calls until 9:30. ron is in davenport, florida. your thoughts on the legacy of the late president. i just want to have my condolences to the bush family. and to c-span, i really and honestly appreciate you all for bringing this to the american people. go to people who cannot washington can actually see

ceremony here. i never met george bush. president ronald reagan. i voted for him. bush --for george h w george h.w. bush. i live in a subdivision of 400 families and i'm the only one is friday who has honored this man and i put out my american flag 41 american flags in my yard. c-spanust want to thank and my condolences to the bush family. thank you. throughoutwith us the day. we will be bringing you the events of the day in their entirety without commentary of course. expected to get underway around 10:00 this morning. charles is in illinois.

good morning. caller: good morning. first off, i'm in the national condolences --he national guard. i give my condolences to the bush family. i was there with jimmy carter. i want to thank c-span for letting us see this. but the biggest thing i want to these bob dole is one of my heroes. but here's the thing here. every veteran should be treated just like george h.w. bush is treated. we ought to have dignity. no family should have to take no money to be buried period. more. two, v.a. should do steps in office

they ought to make sure that the v.a. is taking care of these veterans. i see that people attack president trump, i'm a trunk man. they attack him all the time about what he's doing. president trump is doing a good job for the bushes. and we need to stop asking president trump to sleep. he is our president what he liked it or not. and guess what. i'm happy so far what i see with trump doing right now. all veterans should be treated. we have a senator from illinois, dick durbin. don't do nothing for veterans. don't do nothing but sit around and complain. is a hero. we buried i will keep the legend: but give the v.a. comes up for trump --

thumbs up for trump. host: condoleezza rice making her way to the national cathedral that state funeral. we have seen a couple of dignitaries this morning. there's peyton manning, former nfl quarterback making his way into the cathedral. christine is in chicago, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm just calling to say how hypocritical this news media is now talking how wonderful bush is. it really sickens me what happened to this country. my father also joined up in world war ii. he went to korea and vietnam. so i'm kind of a military person. i just am so saddened by what happened to this country. now they are all talking how wonderful bush was.

runningand his son were they hated him. i have to send my sympathy to the bush family and also what one of the bush family said yesterday. stop making this an anti-trump thing and let the funeral be respectful. that's my comment. thank you so much. we continue to show you scenes i national cathedral. there's colin powell. i'm just in love with and all of what they've done. wish in the end they had stepped in and one against clinton -- one been against clinton. -- won against clinton.

he of the main things focused on his these huge losses that were putting america in a twist. and he wanted to cut those things out. he had a strong desire to keep america great just like the trump administration. i just think god for him and the family. host: one of our colors talked about -- callers talked about going along the train route. it will be carrying his casket from -- college station. that union pacific train scheduled to leave from the spring texas area at 1:00 on thursday and arrive in college station at 3:25 p.m. a place wheree people are expected to gather to pay their respects along the way. the story in the austin american

in missionoting that texas, halfway between houston and college station police officers and volunteer fire department members will set up an honor guard along the train route. military veterans will distribute small u.s. flags for spectators. the front page of the austin american-statesman also showing a picture of former president george h.w. bush sitting in the cab of a union pacific locomotive back in 2005. a similar one will be carrying his casket from spring to college station. john is an elbow lake, minnesota. good morning. good morning. i wanted to comment my anecdote. and he was running for reelection i was in my early 20's at the time.

i noticed that leading up to his election economics were just horrible. the day the clinton was elected everything flipped like in 24 hours. it was about that time that i realized there's more going on in the media. i was kind of like a sleep. people even to this day. that's my comment. thank you. margaret is in seminole, florida. caller: thank you for your service, mr. president. 65 and remember what it was early 50's and 60's and i just want to say thank you mr. president because you showed us the way. important is more than anything.

thank you. god bless. caller in today's washington journal. we will be back here tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. we now take you to capitol hill. the departure ceremony officially expected to get underway at 10:00 this morning. the state funeral at the national cathedral 11:00 this morning and the presidents remains final departure from washington, d.c. expected to happen at about 1:15 today. we are covering it all on c-span. we take you to capitol hill for that.