>> this week on "the communicators" christina chaplin , whose report says the pentagon's weapon systems cyber security is vulnerable. >> they do not even test systems for the kinds of threats you might see from russia and china and north korea. they are not allowed to. they do not want to potentially disrupt the systems. watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span two. this morning, bloomberg news reporter steven dennis previews the week ahead in washington. then aaron jones of the wilson center talks about the december 21 deadline, when government funding is set to expire and what congress can do to avoid a shutdown. and later on the your money segment, reuters correspondent david shepardson discusses how

the federal government has supported the american automobile industry. as always, we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning, it is monday, december 10. the house meets today. the senate returns at 4:00. we are with you for the next four hours. we begin on the front end of a two week window that congress and the white house have given themselves to come up with a government spending deal. the major point of disagreement is whether president trump will get the $5 billion he wants for a border wall. if no agreement is reached by december 21, the government will go into a partial shutdown.

we are beginning our program by asking whether you think it is worth risking a shutdown. if you think it is worth it, (202) 748-8000. if you do not think it is worth it, (202) 748-8001. you can also catch up with us at social media. on facebook it is facebook.com/c-span. you can start calling you now. we say a partial government shutdown on december 20 first because some big items have already been funded, including affairs,gon, veterans even congress itself. here are the things that still need funding in 2019. if no agreement is reached, the department of agriculture would going to a shutdown as with the department of commerce, the department of justice, the .epartment of homeland security

the department of transportation, housing and urban development, along with several smaller agencies. that is what is at stake at this potential government shutdown. we are on the front end of that two week window. a key moment will be tomorrow when president trump is set to meet -- is set to meet with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi, expected to be the speaker when 116th congress meets. here's chuck schumer talking about why he thinks the president does not need $5 billion for his border wall. [video clip] president trump said mark my words, i will have mexico pay for that wall. the idea that the american taxpayer now has to foot the bill does not make sense. second, there is no plan for the wall. they have not said where they want to build it, how high it

is. i do not like any wall. how can you spend $5 billion when there is no plan? it shows this is political fodder for president trump. it appeals to his base. he does not care that much that his government, his administration has not submitted any specific plans. third, last year we put 1.34 billion dollars in border security. not a nickel of that has been spent on a wall. it cannot be. the language cannot allow it. virtually none of it has been spent. they still have that $1.34 billion they have not even spent. schumerat was chuck last week. yesterday, senator lindsey

graham, the incoming chair of the senate judiciary committee was on fox news sunday morning futures and was asked about wall funding. [video clip] the incoming speaker the house has said building a wall is immoral. what are you looking at, nancy pelosi? look at the caravan, look at the border, look at the caravans that are to come. look at the holes in our border security. you have the democratically are to be in the house calling border security immoral. if i'm president trump, tuesday would tell nancy pelosi and chuck schumer we are going to build a wall where it makes sense. president, i would take in and not give in on additional funding and i would want the whole $5 billion. the caravan is a game changer. 1.6 billion dollars is available to the president, he wants five.

after the caravan, if you do not see the need for additional security, you're not paying attention. meeting will be taking place tomorrow at the white house. we'll be -- we will be talking more about it. the president will be having the meeting with a chief of staff that is outgoing. we found out john kelly would be stepping down as president trump's chief of staff. plenty of stories and speculation about who will be replacing john kelly at the .hite house the president tweeting last night about some of the speculation, saying i'm in the process of interviewing great people for the white house chief of staff. the eight -- news has been saying was nick ayres. he is stepping down as well, ending his tenure in the white house. the president calling nick ayres a spectacular person. i'll be making a decision soon -- that was the president on twitter last night.

this morning, we are asking you if you think it is worth it to shut the government down over the battle over border wall -- border wall funding. here's a poll that came out earlier this month. it was a poll from late last month asking the question about whether it is worth it to shut down the government over a border wall. among all voters, 31% said it is worth it. not worth it. among republicans, 49% saying yes, 34% saying no. presentdependents, 24 say it is worth shutting down the government. among democrats, that drops to 14%. 74% saying it is not worth it. the phone lines are yours. claude is up first from texas.

caller: how are we doing? host: go ahead. caller: i would like to have all honest people come across the border legally. in order to do that, we will have to put stopgaps in there to -- menthem through could in texas know about funneling cows. canin for a shutdown so we force people to come across legally. host: this is jim in buffalo, new york. caller: i support a shutdown as well. enough is enough. if they want to come in the country, let them come in legally. let's get a resolution and get it done. host: in terms of supporting a shutdown, who gets blamed for this. take it back to these other government shutdowns. up coming out on the

worst side. caller: i am sure donald trump and the republicans will come out on the worst side, but you have to give them credit for taking a stand. i do not think chuck schumer saying come to my house and i will support you, there is no plan to let these people in and support them and support our system infrastructure to get them schools and housing everything else. i am all for that. then -- come in legally and allow us to be able to control the situation, rather than this massive influx of people. host: ivanka is in manchester, tennessee. is it worth it? caller: i think it is. they have had two years to do something about it. now we have a caravan we have already spent money with extra people. we are spending money on this. it would pay for the wall for

the amount of money the taxpayers are having to pay for health care for these people that are coming over illegally. education and everything else. if the government cannot get their act together and get something done, then we need to shut it down. brat on the line for those singing is not worth it from kentucky. go ahead. caller: as long as we are go ahead andoney, give it to him. trillion.s at $21 at the height of the iraq war george bush was burning through $8 billion a month. it is money we do not have. spend it away. that is fine. thank you. host: in terms of the money that is spent on this issue, this story from the washington times. year'se past water

taxpayers have shell out $27 million to help deportees according to a government accountability office report issued late last week dealing with the of those who are sent back to their country and reported to united states. it concluded the u.s. has not assessed the effectiveness -- border patrol agents caught about 200,000 immigrants living in the u.s. illegally in 2017 and deported 75,000 people back to those countries. we are asking about the border wall. is it worth shutting down the government over? james in san francisco. go ahead. complicated.is the problem with the refugee

fundedis because reagan all of these dictators and drug cartels in central america and obama deported nearly 2 million people. the rate of people leaving the united states to go back to their countries is more than the people crossing the border. on c-span, the reports from the toeland security office congress show there was a net zero border crossing in 2015. is that trump is and cashing inng on people's fears. to this country has been going down for decades. this is ridiculous.

we do not need to spend $30 billion on an impossible wall that cannot physically be built to keep people out that are going out anyway. it is a waste of time. host: frank in kentucky, go ahead. question believe the is is it worth shutting down the government? as far shutting down the government, who cares? it is my understanding that will give them vacation. when they come back they will get paid. i do not see what the problem is. host: have shutdowns in the past ever impacted you in kentucky? have you ever seen a difference? caller: no, sir. host: here are a few comments from twitter and facebook. jodey writing two years after "we will build the most mexico willll and

pay for it? the crowds cheered. now we are hearing i will shut down the government if we do not pay for the wall. -- not going to get anything done anyway. melinda saying the 39% in want to shut down for the wall know nothing about math. we end up downgrading our debt and pain china for all the interest we have to borrow. experts say a wall is the most effective use of funds. josh saying the biggest boondoggle in american history. poisoned, kids uneducated, and people dying of curable diseases. how about we worry about that instead of refugees that want freedom and jobs. our question this morning looking ahead to a partial government shutdown on december 21 if a deal does not come together. we want to know if you think it is worth risking that for a $5

funding for the presence border wall. (202) 748-8000 if you think it ifworth it, (202) 748-8001 you think it is not worth it. steve in north carolina. i do believe it is worth shutting down the government, for nothing else, for the american people to tell congress that is enough of this. people want to point to a particular president or legislature. i will tell you that for decades back to the reagan years and before, we know we have an immigration problem. to those people who would say it is a few hundred people -- i worked in the construction business for many years. talk to a roofer, talk to a carpenter. look in the small towns. there is a major impact.

i fix this on the dysfunction of our congress. i listen to people like mr. schumer and mrs. pelosi and some of these other people. they need to fix it. my grandchildren will get up and our borders will not be secure. it is unacceptable and we have to do something before dallas becomes paris or new york becomes paris. i strongly believe we have to take a stand. that is how i feel about it. host: you mentioned france. news this morning. we are expecting more news as president emmanuel macron is expected to speak today, planting a nationwide address to respond to the anger among many middle class and working poor citizens who have been frustrated over declining

economic means. the new york times, the televised speech by the president will be his first substantive public answer to the yellow vest movement that has transfixed france and spilled and other countries in europe. we will look for news on that today. for those on the line who say it is not worth it. caller: this is sue. thank you to c-span. shouldo circumstances any tax dollars be spent for a wall that has been shown by many different analysis to be ineffective. fared about illegal immigration, he would be pushing for pre-handset of -- for comprehensive immigration reform. illegalows there is an

problem because there were illegal immigrants that worked on building the trump tower in chicago. reasons for is the the illegal immigration, particularly from mexico and central america. a minimal wage for agricultural workers so that they attract u.s. workers instead of relying on illegal immigrants to do the picking of crops. even here in illinois and ohio, there are towns where there are stores that cater to illegal migrant workers. if we had comprehensive immigration reform, don't you think it would be more useful and more effective than an ineffective law. berlin did not work, it got torn down.

it is ridiculous to think mothers that are desperate together kids out of terrible conditions will not do anything to get out of there. we need to help. mexico in these countries deal with these problems. host: that is sue in illinois. taking your calls on the phone lines. for those who think it is worth it to shut down the government over the border wall, (202) 748-8000. if you think it is not worth it, (202) 748-8001. the funding bill is the build to prevent the government shutdown. several other pieces of legislation might hitch a ride on to the bill. six down,ck republican lawmakers are looking withad up the legislation their own priorities, figuring this is their last chance to push their agenda. numerous proposals including a farm bill and a major reason and sentencing reform packages are

being eyed as possible reform packages to the spending bill. we will see how the bill comes together. on that prison reform and sentencing reform bill, a story on that on the front page of the usa today. talkingeir lead story, about the unusual coalition of republicans and democrats, conservatives and liberals, civil rights groups and the white house that have rallied around this criminal justice reform legislation, pushing for action on the first step act. what we're watching for the next two week. mitch mcconnell has yet to schedule a vote on that bill. president trump we at mitch mcconnell, the senate majority leader. the president's tweet saying mcconnell will

ask for a vote on criminal justice reform. it has strong bipartisan support. it will also help people save tax dollars. the president's tweet from , iday saying, "go for it mitch." brenda in south carolina. you're up. caller: i support shutting down the government. i think we need to find a solution. i heard on the news that president trump had illegal immigrants cleaning his hotels. they need to start penalizing the people hiring these people. caller said,ious need a plan where they can come in legally. it is hypocritical of the president to try to keep them out and he has them working. i would like for you to do a story on that and let the public know what is going on because he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. that is my thought. host: john is in trenton, new

jersey. caller: i do not believe that bit about illegal immigration coming here to work. who is going to pick our crops? who is going to do the rest of that stuff? the conservative party in washington, d.c. has to realize that they have to have workers. they're not going to find workers for minimum wage. i think we should look at the story of immigration, not just half of it. the problem is we have people from russia and people from the ukraine. people from other countries that are illegal immigration, too. thingid not fulfill the like the hispanics. we cannot hold the hispanics or any other nation accountable for illegal immigration unless we

finally put in the lump of people together. thank you. host: that is johnny new jersey. this is a column from last week from the center of immigration studies. we have had them on. thatites in his column during the many rallies of donald trump's presidential campaign, no chant ever rang quite as loudly as the old that wall. -- build that wall. andwall remains unbuilt republican congressional leaders look likely to capitulate. while the border wall is not the highest priority, failure to win threatens tong seriously demoralize the trump base and send a signal to the rest of the world that our southern border remains unsecured. if you want to read his column,

go to cns news.com. a facebook post from linda. shutting down the government is never a good thing, she writes. the shutdown in 2013 caused billions of dollars in a domino effect. when the national parks closed people canceled trips to those parks. the president of the united states and members of congress should not be using that as a do what i want or i will shut down the government. the idea of a ridiculous wall at the border is beyond the realm of intelligence. that is just a little bit from linda's facebook post. that is the key debate happening on the spending bill. we have two weeks before the shutdown would take place. it would be midnight on december 21. sean in lakeland, florida is next. good morning. linda in whatto

she is talking about. it makes no sense. this border wall issue. you have to look at immigration -- the corporations, the people that higher them. i get so sick i hear about someone calling in and talking about e-verify. they know the people are illegal. if you have somebody working for calls andryone the talking about the construction industry and the agricultural industry. those industries got like that because of nonunion. they pushed the unions out and then it became an issue where the illegals came in and started working for two dollars. now you have these people building rooms for two dollars, picking crops and now the american people say nobody wants those jobs. those jobs were worked by american people and were good paying jobs.

america, theple of so-called african-americans were people doing the agricultural work. they were slaves. after slavery, that was the only thing they knew. you try to tell me now they will not do that? they do not do it because they do not get paid because the illegals drove the wage down. you talk about nobody wants to work for minimum wage. him him wage is what it is because of illegal immigration. if you want to stop it -- we do not need new laws. enforce the laws on the book. fined, they get lose their business license, people go to jail. when does the business owner go to jail for hiring illegal? host: irwin, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call.

i agree with the government shutdown for the border wall. desperate times call for desperate measures. how long have we been hearing our country needs comprehensive immigration reform? for as long as i can remember, i've heard that. yet it never gets done. other countries to protect their borders. israel has a border wall. canada, australia have strict immigration rules. i do not understand why we cannot do it. i do agree somewhat with the gentleman who just got off the phone that corporations to benefit. i agree with that. .hat is unfortunate i do not know what the answer is. we do need something done. i think you have to force it. if it calls for this, then so be it. host: do you think there's an opportunity for a grand deal?

we have talked before about dreamers, the children of illegal immigrants who were brought here. you think that is something that can be worked into some sort of grand deal on immigration? is this an opportunity or a ticking clock? caller: i thought we had done that last year. there was supposed to be a back-and-forth, including the dreamers for the wall. whose fault it was, whether they backed out of it. that did not work. i do not see that happening. not with the congress i saw happening right now. another reason i agree with the wall is not just for immigration , what a lot of our drugs, , i've had aentanyl family member died from fentanyl. --t is a big issue for army

that is a big issue for me. there are a couple reasons i do agree with it. put thehe time to screws to the wall and say we need to get something. host: you talk about the congress we have right now. that congress for the next couple weeks will have speaker paul ryan as its head in the house. at a recent event with the ryanington post," paul talked about the idea of a government shutdown over the issue of a border wall. [video clip] >> border security is important. only to stopnt if the flow of fentanyl and heroin coming into our schools. it is important because of the lawlessness at the border. i know people want to say it is about trump and the wall. it is more than that. it is about whether or not we are in control of our border were not. there are a lot of national security implications with this.

we do take it as a serious issue. there is funding in place. the question is do we have enough to make the progress we want to make insecure border. this is why believe within the spending cap more research is needed. this is being negotiated while we speak. our hope is we can get a successful conclusion. they have until midnight on december 21. if a deal is not reached, the government would go into a partial government shutdown. you this morning, is it worth risking that over $5 billion for the border wall. having this conversation on phone lines. for those who think it is worth it, (202) 748-8000. for those who think it is not, (202) 748-8001. about theines departure of john kelly, white house chief of staff and the effort to find a replacement.

none has been named yet. the president said it is coming soon. has some ofay story the notable nuggets from john kelly's tenure in the white house, reminding people that he got the ball rolling by firing anthony scaramucci. he helped get steve bannon out the door. has denied calling the president and idiot as was reported. time,elly saying at the in april when that story came up, i spend more time with the president then anyone else and we have an incredible candid and strong relationship. he always knows where i stand. we both know this story is total bs. now john kelly is out of the white house. some of the speculation over the weekend was that make errors would replace him -- was that nick ayers would replace him.

here he is being sworn in as mike pence's chief of staff. some of the reporting saying there was a disagreement over how long the term the president would be -- the president was looking for a two year. ayers, the father of triplets says he cannot commit to the job for more than three months. the wall street journal noting the tweet from nick ayers over the weekend saying thank you president trump and vice president pence and migrate colleagues. i will be departing at the end of the year but will work with the make america great again team to advance the cause. we'll begin talking more about make errors in the search for the president's next chief of staff in our next interview. we'll be joined by steven dennis of bloomberg to talk about the week ahead in washington. that is very much a part of the week ahead.

we are focusing on the border wall fight for now. phone lines for those who think it is worth shutting down the government over this fight, (202) 748-8000. if you think it is not worth it, (202) 748-8001. jarrett in tennessee. go ahead. so manyi cannot believe people do not understand the seriousness of this wall. expect to keep people from coming into this country, especially from south america, without it. it has been 30 something years people have been talking about some kind of security on the southern border. what it cost the everyday taxpayer in this country annually would pay for that wall. people do not

understand because they do not feel it every day or every week. if you really understood how much money all of these millions of people coming into this country cost all the rest of us to support them, to take care of them, if you do not think we need that wall, take a look at what is going on across europe. this is not something that has just started. europe has been inundated with refugees from all over the world now, they are going under. they have lost control of their government, of their financers, of everything. we do not need that to happen in this country. we need the wall. host: we are nearly two years into the president's term. do you think all wall gets built before the president term ends after four years? caller: i tell you what.

if we do not get the wall built, we are going to be in a lot more trouble than right now. a fraternityake member to look at what is going on in europe. take a look. do investigating. do research. people should their mouth off about this that and the other goes to work and does research about what is going on. i used to live in texas, i used to live in california. i've been in the landscape business for years. do not give me all of these they are the about only people who will work. that is baloney. there are a lot of people in this country that do the landscape work legally. host: randy is in chicago,

illinois. go ahead. say what heuld like is asking for is the $5 billion for the wall. he ought tocause use that $5 billion to get rid illegal people sent back to their country. first we have to get them out of the united states and that i would have to say yes for money for the wall. $5 billion first to get states.he united they ought to pass a law that if they shut down the government,

then all of the people working there that are getting laid off or furloughed when they shut it down, that they do not get their money back once they come back to work. i would guarantee you they will never shut the government down again. thank you very much for that. host: if the government were to shut down, the pentagon would still be funded, the legislative branch where the spending bills that fund congress, the house and senate itself, that is funded through 2019. the veterans affairs bill has been passed. the things that still need funded -- the agencies under shut down threats if congress does not come to a deal with the white house before december 21 include the department of agriculture, the department of commerce, the department of justice, the department of homeland security, the department of the carrier, the department of state, the department of housing and urban development and several other

smaller agencies under the shutdown threat. those are the agencies that do not have funding in place. they will pass for fiscal year 2019. that is happening over the next two weeks. are you willing to risk those agency shutting down? rachel said no in vermont. go ahead. caller: hi. as much of a supporter president m, i do not feel it is worth shutting the government down if it is not funded by the 21st. i'm still trying to get my degree in college and i did a research paper a few years back on the effects of the border wall. of the on both sides fence many democrats and republicans both said that a new

.order wall inegals have been coming since the dawning of america. i think the guy before me is right in a way. we need to start by making an example to those who still think america just lets everyone in. i think he is right. we need to use that money getting out people who do not belong here. every mexican to every muslim, whoever it might be. i think he is absolutely on the money. we need to start sending them away. host: how do you feel about legal immigration? caller: i am more pro-illegal

immigration than illegal immigration. i'm still on the fence. i think we let too many in we should not let in. that is because i believe countries like europe and the netherlands there are now muslim ghettos in countries like the netherlands. i do not want that for america. that would not be the future i dream of. host: do you want a religious test on immigration? do not want to let any muslim people and the country? caller: i have seen the terror they bring. unless they can prove overall that that is not going to happen here. i do not see muslims assimilate. i see muslims doing what they've done to other countries. force their ways onto us versus the other way around which is how it should be, which is they assimilate to us. host: that is rachel in vermont.

georgia.n is in caller: before i get started, i wish one person that brings it up would tell me what in the heck a comprehensive immigration reform is. they keep throwing that tune around like congress that says i'm here to do the people's work and have no earthly idea what they are talking about. host: what you think it should be? caller: i think to start with, they ought to go -- we have a town called grove town. if you go there on friday evening at the gas stations in grove town, they are making a business of taking money and shipping it to mexico. people come in, cash their

checks, it cost them $10, private contractors. there are none of them paying taxes in the united states. number, not ax id social security account number. they are shipping money left and right. the parking lot is filled. that is where they all live, in that one little city. the whole city is probably half mexican. need rules of law has say things like a judge to put so many people through this court in a days time and if he cannot do it he is replaced in the next day we put somebody in there that can listen to these sob stories and tell them you have to go back.

i want to see something. , toneed to go to atlanta the immigration and naturalization office and look at all the posters and documents. there is nothing in there for anybody except mexicans. host: on the spending money overseas, do you think there should be more rules on what people can do with money they are? caller: you can do whatever you want with it in this country. host: you have to keep it in the states. caller: if i'm a foreign bank account, i have to divulge it. if i send thousands of dollars by electronic wire, nobody cares. host: that is ken in georgia. tom is in clinton, massachusetts. caller: i was going to say that trumps wall is not going to work. you have to look at parallels in history. i think what we need is a

natural -- a national id card that has a photo and a unique number that equates to a social security number to control people who come into the country legally or illegally. even mexico has a national id card. we need a better solution to control the border. aginot wall is not going to work. host: it is 7:45 on the east coast. taking your phone calls for the next 15 minutes. you can continue to call in on phone lines. for those who think the border wall is worth it and not worth it. did want to keep you updated on other stories, including one other overseas. for the u.k., the british prime decider is expected to whether to delay a key parliamentary vote on her brexit

deal. she is facing a heavy defeat in the house of commons vote, with more than 100 conservative mps saying they oppose the plan. to seekrnative is concessions adding a you council meeting starting later this week. the eu has warned she would face pressure as she tries to reopen negotiations with brussels. one more story on that front from reuters. court'spean union's top ruling that the united kingdom can revoke its divorce notice from the eu, raising the hopes of pro-europeans ahead of a crucial vote we talked about on theresa may's divorce deal. the story from reuters noting 36 -- londonre the vote could revoke its divorce notice with no penalty. mais government says that ruling means nothing because it has no intention to reverse its decision to leave the eu.

we will continue to watch that story as it develops. john in florida. go ahead. caller: 13 reasons illegal alien should vacate americans. an article in the denver post .bout two years ago at the end of it, the total cost is $538.3 billion. not counting $23 billion child earned income credit. that amounts to 10 show in dollars in 10 years. that pays for -- $10 trillion in 10 years. that pays for medical, our infrastructure, our veterans, and our military. this is getting ridiculous what

these illegal aliens are getting benefits. out 1.8t to point billion lousy dollars? schumer and that bunch are morons. i get disgusted about c-span because every topic you put on is trying to be trump up. day, and ask like you are trying to be for him but everything is against him. you think he is trying to destroy this country. i watched you for 20 years and you keep getting worse. host: appreciate the feedback. we are asking whether you think it is worth it to shut down the government over the border wall fight. $5 billion is what the president wants. a key negotiation will take

place tomorrow. the president will sit down with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer to talk about a spending deal. the clock is ticking. they have until midnight on december 21 before a partial shutdown would take place. andrew in chicago is next. good morning. caller: the border wall. when president trump was running for president. in all of his speeches in rural america to his base he always had that chant going -- build that wall. before he said that he would say mexico was going to pay 100% for the wall. we not paying a dime in the chant would start. he new mexico was never going to pay for the wall. he knew that his base would believe anything he says. if he would get mexico to build the wall, i do not care if you

build a 200 foot wall. his base will not hold him accountable for the lies he told his base that mexico is going to pay for the wall. why don't they hold him accountable. why do republicans want taxpayers to pay for a wall that the president, who they constantly say, 100%, we love him because he does everything he says he is going to do. there is one failure right there. we are going to fit the bill? i do not want a shut down. i've a sign that works in the state department. host: what has your son said when he has talked about the upcoming shutdown? are they preparing? has he heard anything? caller: he is in eastern europe

as a liaison. he has a lot of colleagues in washington and they are not thrilled about it. those are colleagues that are republicans and democrats. another thing. needsller from tennessee to realize what he is saying when he calls. said was weing he have to stop immigration from south america. i do not see anybody coming from argentina, peru, ecuador, brazil . this is central america. before he calls again he should know what he is saying. host: andrew in illinois. a few more comments from social media. steve on facebook writing in -- do i support a border wall -- a shutdown for border wall funding ? whatever it takes. another steve saying the gop has done all it can do to demonize immigrants, while i believe we

have to maintain borders building a wall will save nobody money. barbara is in texas. go ahead. caller: i fully support shutting down the government to get the border wall. i think it is all a part of what needs to be done. we need to do something about the 14th amendment because illegals should not have a baby that equates to an american citizen. different things need to be done. the wall is a major point of that. that will stop drugs and illegal trafficking common through there. if you watch the video on the border wall, there are major sections where there is nothing there or you can just walk through or drive a pickup through. the vatican has a wall. heaven has a wall. why can't we have a border wall? host: how would you rewrite the 14th amendment. what should be the criteria to become a citizen?

caller: that your mother is a citizen. your father can be anybody but if the mother is not a citizen the baby should not be a citizen. that is how they are able to get the benefits. all a woman has to do is get pregnant while she is here and she is eligible for all of these welfare benefits. food stamps, and everyone in our household is eligible. two illegal should not make an american citizen. that amendment was put in so slave children would be american citizens. we do not have slaves anymore. that is outdated and needs to be done away with. host: barbara in texas. john is in bridgewater, new jersey. caller: good morning. to conflate counter immigration with all immigration is disingenuous.

we brought in people over the years for specific reasons. the chinese to build railroads. my people, the irish and italians to dig ditches in new cell -- sell clothes and fight in the wars. i support donald trump in his effort to fight down the -- to shut down the country. he got voted in to build a wall. -- godocrats only care knows what they care about. destroying this country. shut down the country if they do not pay for the wall. host: john in new jersey. a few minutes left to have this conversation about whether you think it is worth risking a government shutdown for the fight over border wall funding. also want to keep you updated on other stories.

we have been talking about wisconsin recently and the situation with the incoming governor elect. take legal action to block republicans lame duck measures to limit his authority upon taking office, calling his efforts -- calling their efforts a mistake. evers saying the measures amid a to consolidates power in the legislative branch. the legislative package would also limit early voting, which has helped democrats and would take away from the governor the power of a lawsuit. republicans have argued that the lame-duck legislation is aimed at properly balancing the branches of government. he was on meet the press yesterday talking about the issue. [video clip] >> all issues are on the table. i am not making promises one way or the other but we are looking at all issues and all options.

i need to stand up for the people of wisconsin. there are 2.6 million people that voted and they expect me to do that. we will pursue this. we will see what happens with that story this week. phone calls about potentially shelling the government down over the border wall on december 21. doug is in mississippi. is it worth the risk? are you with us? caller: yes. host: go ahead. caller: i agree with the lady from texas and the gentleman from new jersey. i'm a truck driver. i go to texas all of the time. it is ridiculous. i agree with donald trump and the republicans. i am a democrat and i do not agree with the democrats, with

what they are doing. they need to get on board and do what is supposed to be done. on then north carolina line for those who say is not worth it. go ahead. caller: good morning. i'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this. i just tuned in. people seem to be missing the point here it if corporations and rich people do not hire illegals, they would not come over. no one has mentioned that. the rich people hire them because they do not want to pay the taxes and the low salaries. why doesn't someone mentioned the rich people hiring them. people are blaming the illegals. one of they blame the people hiring them? pat in houston, texas.

good morning. caller: i grew up in houston when it was mostly white and colored. the town of pasadena is all white. that town is now 98% spanish. they all drive brand-new cars and i cannot believe the government is not going for this wall. leave the money where it should be, with the people that were originally here in the first place. i have a neighbor that has four brand-new vehicles and eight months ago do not have a car. host: did you vote for donald trump in 2016? think the wall would be built by now? caller: if i was not so old i would go down and work on a wall

myself. host: what about the president saying mexico would pay for the wall? caller: they are paying for it. all they have to do is shut off all the free money going to mexico every year. they give them money to help their people but we have to live with these people -- all of their schools are brand-new. when i went to school there were no brand-new schools. now they are all brand-new and they are 98% spanish. that is ridiculous. host: phil is in new york city. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm a democrat and i've been watching her program since the beginning today. i believe it was the first callers who said something about researching and finding out the benefit of the wall. in my time i found some amazing things.

mongolsese wall, the passed around it in a week. the berlin wall was demolished after less than 30 years. ot line, the tanks drove around it in a day. the trump wall. never built, because a huge majority of americans knew that walls have never worked anywhere. in any place. is such atrump brilliant chief executive. he is applying all of his business experience to his new job. watch how he uses what he learned careening from bankruptcy to bankruptcy, using all his credit until you had to go to the eastern block loan sharks to fend off the angry people. come on, folks. trump is a black hole of corruption, criminality, selfishness and a bully.

let's not forget treason. the man does not have one redeeming quality. i will support the wall of he is on the other side. mike in alexandria, virginia. caller: let's look at the history of our relationship to latin america, south america. yearse a policy over the forssisting corporations establishing their businesses south of the border. theytly in the reagan era paid corporations money to come how tonars to learn transfer your businesses out of the country. i cannot believe that is a

patriotic thing to do. that the laboren that comes here has been displaced from their homelands inause u.s. companies moving and taking over their resources and land area. their fraternities. they come here seeking compensation. for the damage done by u.s. corporations stop the border. thank you. host: that is mike and out center, virginia. here is one story from alaska public media. as the showdown starts moving toward december 21, you will see more stories like this. this is a story about what could happen in alaska if the government goes into shutdown. icebreaker could lose out to the border while in budget dispute.

that is the story there. that is from alaska public media. noting that that project hangs in the balance. america has fallen way behind on icebreakers. the united states is down to two that are operational. thomas has agreed to build more. a congressman approved and icebreaking structure. 150 million here, $150 million there. $750 million is what lisa murkowski said the senate looked at. funding for that program could be at risk as the shutdown looms. in san mateo, california, thanks for waiting. disagree with the shutdown over the funding for the wall. i think it's not about security for a lot of people. it is more cultural. and that if it is about

security, the terrorists that we have to worry about are going to come in with visas and credit cards. host: when you say cultural, what do you mean? caller: i think there is a cultural bias. not so much about latinos but more about that they are poor. but, i live in california. immigrant, undocumented immigrant labor for a long time. as far as crime goes, i think that in a lot of ways, for instance, that affects the i do themore than white guys, i am quite myself. host: john is in milwaukee, wisconsin. good morning. listening toe been

the conversation this morning. i noted that mostly white people called in that were against what they call illegal aliens entering this country. thate to me all the sudden the last time america was great was the day before columbus discovered america. theproceeded to annihilate people he found here. now, who has done more to s?stroy america than european when you think about the people that are coming in here now, these people were the descendents of people that the spaniards found among the incas and the mayans. saidhat is europeans who you have a lot of land here and

you happy for resources that we have a technology that you might be interested in and what the whole continent from south america to alaska was one giant country? the problem with america is white people. thank you. host: judy is in sun city, arizona. good morning. caller: good morning. , whatever is necessary, the wall should be built. afford to havet all this money going out. host: have you ever been impacted by a government shutdown? no.er: but i am tired. what would a wall mean in

sun city, arizona? tell me about the immigration issues. caller: when you go to a store and you hear paging in another , it is not fair to american teachers. they have to know how to speak spanish to do their job. it's not right. president, saying that mexico was good to pay for the wall -- going to pay for the wall, when we put up roads, we put up toll gates and that's what pays the roads. people comingk into this country will eventually pay for a wall it is built? caller: illegals don't pay for anything. they were under the table. they drive around here, looking and they don't pay taxes on it. they take and take and take.

they get free dental, free health, free lunch. there are people struggling that have been here for generations. they have had illness or lack of advantages or not being a scholastic type. their children have a hard time. these people walk in and they don't pay anything into the system and they just take, take, take. host: where are illegal immigrants getting free dental care? caller: in the schools, they get records, --freed breakfast, free dentistry and checkups. host: that is judy in arizona. roland in madison heights, virginia, go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. people thatthose comes from a third world country. america is a first world

country. i come here and discover that there are third world people in america. abouto surprised african-americans who don't know they have been trapped for decades. those that are coming through the wall are coming to get their jobs. they don't know that. so, i support the shutdown of the government. i am from a third world country -- host: what country did you come to the united states from? caller: i come from the western african country of nigeria. host: when did you come to the united states? caller: about 11 years ago. host: full process like for you? -- what was that process like for you? caller: it was not easy. i just became a citizen a few months ago. i love america.

i want to be protected. i want to be safe. i watch out for all people. america is not quite people. it is the mindset. you have to think and plan and know what you want to get out of this country and prosper. nobody can stop you if you have a purpose and a plan for the purpose. black people have to step up and think to get the best out of this country. i come from third world country. i come here and i can pursue my dream. and go to the top. i went on my own terms. they have to step up. and --harles in his charles is in staten island, new york. caller: good morning, how are

you doing? host: doing well. caller: walls don't work. all these people that claim to be ronald reagan republicans, when he asked gorbachev to tear down the wall, he tore down that wall. he was so happy the wall was being torn down. when you go to north korea or south korea, they don't want a wall over there. why should we want a wall inside the united states? the first persons we should be speaking to buy the native american indians. they say everybody should be out and everybody should get out. that is my only comment. thank you. you have a good day, sir. bob is in louisville, kentucky. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am for building a wall. while they're, building a wall, they're going to have to bite the bullet and try these traitor sanctuary

democrats. try them for treason and keep them out of the country. are way, all these illegals coming in because they know the democrats are traitors and will let them in the country. thatis -- you have to do first. build a wall and get the traitors out of the country. from louisville, kentucky to alabama. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. we need to spend the money for the wall on education because we sure have an education problem in our country. they are getting a lot of misinformation from i don't know where. orbe out of the thin air maybe out of the chief but i don't know. getting -- there sure

are getting a lot of misinformation. they think they're getting hand out after handout after hand-operated that is not true. host: our last caller in the first segment of the washington journal. up next, we will be joined by steven dennis. us later, erin jones joins for a deep dive on the pending government deadline. we will be right back. ♪ week, on the communicators, christina chaplin whose government accountability report says the weapons system cyber security is vulnerable. >> right now, we don't even test

the stuff for the kinds of things you might see from russia and china and north korea. they are not allowed to, in terms of testing. they don't want to potentially disrupt the system. >> watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. created as aan was public service. i americans cable-television copies. and today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of progress, the white house, -- congress, the white house and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> when the new congress takes office in january, it will have the youngest, most diverse freshman class in recent history.

new congress, new leaders. watching live on cnn. starting january 3. >> washington journal continues. host: steven dennis covers capitol hill for bloomberg, he previously sent several years in the white house. he joins us this morning as we look in the -- at the week ahead. steven dennis, let's start at the white house. the search for the next chief of staff. the latest on how that search process is going and when we are checking an announcement. guest: we had been expecting want today or maybe on twitter over the weekend. anyone'sappening is guess what is happening at the white house right now. they needed -- they need a chief of staff and anyone in the next three weeks. john kelly was going to be leaving. he said that on twitter. -- the president said that on twitter. the person that would seem to be

the heir apparent, mike pence's chief of staff, nick ayers decided on twitter to say that he was going to be taking his family to georgia instead of become the chief of staff. there is a scramble and everybody in washington seems -- whether the mark meadows or a budget other names who theoretically could get the job. host: when was the last time there is a chief of staff windows notnounced a replacement also announced? guest: i can't think of one. barack obama did have five chiefs of staff. it is not uncommon for a chief of staff to be chewed up and spit out by washington. it is one of the toughest job congress -- toughest jobs, if not the toughest job. certainly for trump, it has been tougher because you have to deal with tweets that happen at 6:00

in the morning or 11:00 at night. you have to figure how to deal with that. it is a very tough job. especially for this president. the first hour of the program talking about potential government shutdown. going over to the white house to have this discussion, does john kelly join those conversations? guest: i assume so. the big negotiation is the wall money. and what trump is willing to give in to democrats and what the democrats are willing to offer him or not. has beeny intimately involved in wall discussions. i imagine he is going to be the chief of staff until he is not. also a general so i expect them to salute and keep doing his job until he is not in there. that is the big question. is trump going to be in the mood

of wanting to actually get a win? he has had a whole bunch of non-wins for lack of a better term. friday, the mueller conviction and indictments and paul cohen.rt to michael there is a bunch of legal trouble at a the presence way as well. maybe a shutdown would be a distraction. someght be a win to get money. that could shift the narrative a little bit. host: is there any grandville coming together, we talked about the dreamers? is the potential for that? has any great talked about that? guest: no. the timing is really bad. nancy plus he is not yet the speaker. she is the presumptive speaker but she does not yet have 218 votes. they will be a vote on january 3. it is hard for her to cut any kind of compromise right now.

we have a lame-duck congress. there is a new congress about to take hold. democrats are feeling like they a guild ofhe house, a what accepted a year ago, which would've been the daca population, about 2 million people, was the deal they were willing to support a year ago. now, it is not enough. they want more. so, i think the most likely scenario is that we get a cake. the last dose code times -- there was a times ine in a march -- a kick march. host: republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000.

independents (202) 748-8003 fit -- independents (202) 748-8002. the present announcing the nomination of william bar as attorney general. we got into the william barr nomination and the quality he brings to downtown, can you talk about that? guest: if you imagine how hard it is going to be to confirm somebody to the senate where almost everybody supports the mueller investigation, and a president who is intent on either killing it or not giving any oxygen and wanton attorney general to rein in, that is a very small keyhole to get through. william barr just might be the guy. he is the former attorney general under george bush, george h.w. bush. he has the biggest credential you can have.

which is being senate confirmed to the same position decades ago. inh trump, he had a role basically shutting down the advocating probe by for a wave of pardons as the first george bush was leaving office. william barr was an advocate for having a big wave and that shut down the investigation. so, he has also been a critic of independent counsels. this is a special counsel. a little bit of a different thing. he had been critical of pieces of it last year. there are a lot of reasons for trump to think hey, he might be my god. .o rein in the mueller probe -- hey, he might be my guy to rein in the mueller probe.

he expects him to be confirmed easily. he is an outstanding pick. they only need republican votes. it is a 53-47 senate. even though rand paul has said he is concerned about william barr on other issues. they don't necessarily need his vote. host: this happens in the 116th congress. happens in chance it the weeks before the end of the 115th congress. nauert could get confirmed but it is more likely the democrats are going to want to have hearings. host: plenty more to discuss about the week in washington. in arlington, virginia, you're honesty does. go ahead. caller: good morning. i had more of a question. i know that people are anxious

to push through with the wall before people leave but it is my understanding and i'm not sure i have it right that there is an anti-semitism bill that they want to post through. i don't know the number of it. i know the israelis are potentially helping us with building any potential wall. i'm wondering if you could maybe speak a little bit about that and what you may know. guest: i am not aware of that bill. i can go look it up. basically, right now, this is the end of the congress. every bill dies on january 3. some of them are reborn and some of them are dead forever. everybody that has a bill is trying to get it in this last g spending package and ship it in as a christmas ornament. that might be out there, someone

is try to make it a christmas ornament onto that big spending package. or maybe there is a talk of tax cuts. there are kinds of things that toward christmas, magically make it to the finish line. expecting, we are this week on u.s. relations with hasi arabia, saudi arabia our support for their efforts in yemen. where does that stand right now? guest: the latest i have heard the foreign relations chairman is trying to work on language that would sanction effectively the crown prince of saudi arabia. the one republican senators say is guilty of murdering this journalist. .onitoring the murder

a lot of senators agree. there is going to be some kind of vote. there will be at least a vote on getting us out of yemen. that could happen any day. it could happen quickly. it can happen after hours of debate. there could be a lot of amendments as well. hecould be something that tries to move separately. he is talked about having hearings this week. and there are other bills that would sanction saudi arabia. the main thing is these things are not going to go anywhere. because the president of the united states does not support them. voteou need 67 senators to to override a veto. you need 290 house members to pass a special role so they don't have to bring it up or vote under paul ryan. that might change early next year. these things would still be privileged. this is sort of a prelude to what could be additional votes

next year. 63 senators right now, what sounds like a lot. but if you're trying to take -- do something the president does i want, you need 67. they don't have that. host: diane is a republican, good morning. caller: i have a couple of questions. with regard to potential government shutdown, it is my understanding -- but they always paid when they come back? that is one question. butcally, they get time off they get paid the next pay round or whatever. the second question i would like to ask is what happens with regard to congress during a shutdown? do they have to stay at their jobs you i think they should. until it is resolved. if it means working on christmas day, i don't care. i would like to know what does happen. guest: i know the answer. i covered a lot of shutdowns. members of congress get paid

$174,000 and they get paid that whether they vote or not, whether they're in jail or not. they get paid that until they are no longer a member of congress. it is actually one of the most recent constitutional amendments. you can look it up. it was passed in the 90's. it is a fun one. they actually can't withhold their pay. they cannot force them to work. hasn't congress already passed its own budget? guest: they basically, a lot of the government is funded. it functions as a minority of the government that would have this issue. one of the departments happens to be the department of homeland security. if you need help with getting a

visa and passport extension, there could be people annoyed about things getting shut down. yourmight consider vacation nonessential. these are the kinds of things that could get a lot of people annoyed. but, airplanes are not going to fall out of the sky. the system is going to continue to work. host: what about the questionable employees and back pay? bill --hey pass the congress passes the bill to reopen the government. they have never failed to pass that bill. usually, to negotiate that bill, you have a love people who represent federal employees in congress. it is not their fault. so, if you want to get the votes, you usually -- those people get paid for networking. this is often a fight, every time. there are people who have the feeling people should not get paid for networking.

congress to potentially pass a law dealing with future congresses and cutting their pay during these times. they might not pass a constitutional imminent. might have to pass a constitutional amendment. i don't see members pushing that hard for that sort of thing. jacksonville, north carolina. jackie, independent line. caller: i want to say, you would not need a wall if all of the american companies that hired mexicans were prosecuted. happened andricane you go into a restaurant, there -- ifbe 52 100 mexicans 100 mexicans. all of them are paid by dollars an hour yet the owner, however

he does it, is telling the government that he is paying them the right wage and getting away with it. i'm just saying you are not need a wall if -- you would not need a wall if they were prosecuted. i think that is the core of this whole argument. is that people are being hurt economically because they are competing against unauthorized -- you canwho are get paid less than the minimum wage. wouldconditions citizens not accept. you're trying to compete with that as a worker, it is hard to compete. who wantedsomebody to get a dishwashing job and you are being replaced or any other

job and you are being place, that is -- being replaced, that is what you make you angry. even if you're not being replaced, maybe your pay is less. the reality is, the chamber of commerce, they make a profit when workers get paid less. they wanted more immigration, they want sweeping amnesty's so that people can get legalized with work permits. this is a big fight. yep government saying look, all these people are living in the shadows. they are going to be working. they're not going to leave. and they are working now so it's bring them out of the shadows, get them right with the loss, the way they call it. , the way they call it. suddenly, they would have these rights. they would get paid minimum wage.

good workingve conditions and parent that with -- right now, it is optional for most employers to check immigration status. and that is something that is resisted every time it is brought up. not just resisted by democrats, it is also resisted by farmers, for example. if they had to verify for every farmhand, there might be a lot of cows that don't get milked. host: what is the status of the farm bill? it is greased, it seems like. it is a matter of finding time on the floor and or scheduling the votes. it seems like that is one thing has bipartisan support -- is bipartisan.

it is being reserved as a get out of town kind of bill. leaders usually like to have a bill or two that they know is going to pass, that will keep member's sticking around and negotiating on other things. it could happen this week. it could happen next week. we will see. caller: jerry -- host: jerry in new jersey, go ahead. caller: i heard this person talking about trump not having any successes and i have to comment because he is over here working so hard with the trade agreements, with mexico and canada and now working with china. which, by the way, nobody attempted to do prior to trump to help the american people. thei cannot get over negativity about that and i am listening to the democrats and i'm a registered democrat. i am listening to them saying they may not sign this deal

because they want more. prior to this, they never even attempted to make any changes. prior to that, they did not do anything. i got a laugh, they want to take the credit, i'm sure. it's not going to work. that's ok. host: why are you a democrat? caller: i am a registered democrat because at first, i really thought they had the best way. but, when i look at it now, they are so anti-american, anti-quite. anti-white. anti-men. i probably will change to republican. i can't get over the fact that they hate this country so bad. that they will take it down to get power. is probablynk trade

the president's signature issue that he has been working on this past year. he is starting to see results. you have a deal with mexico and canada. it is potentially coming up for votes next year. ultimately, net to pelosi is going to be in charge of when -- nancy pelosi is going to be in charge of when there is a vote in the house. there is no guarantee she is not going to demand other things on it. it is going to be a challenge for the president because a lot of these things did not happen six months ago because these deals are from the last several weeks. he will have to deal of net you pelosi, as opposed to paul ryan to get these things across the finish line. president george w. bush learned the hard way because nancy pelosi blocked several free-trade agreements until barack obama was elected. they added some things that she wanted, she has shown in the past that she has been able to get things that republicans

don't want attached to things that they do. in 2007, when george bush needed iraq, shee surgeon ultimate the cave but she added a two dollar minimal wage increase. she understands leverage, i have covered her before. she is probably going to look at this as a leverage opportunity when it comes to the floor. d.c.,in washington, independent, go ahead. caller: i'm calling because there is a couple of calls i want to respond to. we are talking about kentucky and alabama, these are all states that receive more in federal government handouts. welfare, medicare, medicaid, government programs. our deep red conservatives, the ones that love to tout that it

is the immigrants that are taking -- takers and not givers. these are the states that receive more from the federal government in terms of medicare, that they do give out in texas. that is a fact. you can go to the washington post and see that they have been showing that. these states are receiving government handouts. your point,ot kevin. do you have a question before you go? caller: how come it is allowed for callers to get up on the c-span and say whatever untruths that they want to say? while i appreciate people possible unfiltered -- people's unfiltered perspective, please do a better job of fact checking these colors so they are not saying the same garbage that our

president does. host: we always appreciate the feedback. billriminal justice reform , the status of that in the final weeks. guest: it is an mitch mcconnell's hands. he has been reluctant to bring it to the floor. -- as been he is said last week that he had 77 votes for the bill. including most republicans. whipcornyn, the republican was not necessarily as convinced about that number. ted cruz came on board. that was a big get. previouswas opposed to versions. so, the fact that ted cruz was convinced that probably, maybe,

that pushes them over the finish line in the senate. it takes a week an mitch mcconnell does not want them to take a week on it. host: is mitch mcconnell onboard ?eck guest: so is chuck grassley. the chairman of the judiciary that hee is not happy thought he had a promise. the votes and now they come to the floor and he is not a happy man. chuck grassley often gets what he wants. the incoming senate finance chairman is go to be a popular guy. when the president of united states want something and ted cruz want something, these kinds of things don't want -- don't happen very often. it would be a rare bipartisan capstone in the job administration. host: we will see what happens

in the next couple of weeks. steven dennis with bloomberg, we always appreciate you. up next, aaron jones will join us. looking into a possible government shutdown and what it means. and, in our weekly "your money" segment, we will talk about the history of the automobile .ndustry with david shepherdson we'll be right back. ♪ >> this week, on the communicators, christina chaplin whose report says the pentagon's weapon system cyber security is

horrible. >> they don't even test the stuff for the kinds of threats that you might see from russia and china and north korea. they are not allowed to, in terms of testing. they don't want to potentially disrupt the system. "the communicators" tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. and today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress. the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. yourn is brought to you by cable or satellite provider. when the new congress takes office in january, it will have

the youngest, most diverse freshman class in recent history. , watchgress, new leaders it live on c-span. starting january 3. washington journal continues. joins us nowones as we take a deep dive into the looming federal funding shutdown showdown. he is currently -- he previously spent years working on capitol hill. whyain how we got here and it would only be a partial shutdown goes past the december 21 deadline? guest: we got here by not getting all of the pills done by september 30, which is the end of the fiscal year. do wellr, congress did in the appropriations process, much better than they have in previous years. they got five bills pasts. they got the defense bill passed. construction, a

legislative branch bill and an energy bill. that still leaves seven bills and severn agencies -- seven agencies. so, we have a two week reprieve to give them some breathing room to get things done. if there is a shutdown come december 21, it won't be the whole government because congress has done part of the government already. host: where our most people likely to experience this? how are federal employees decided which are essential and which are nonessential? guest: that depends on the agency. the agency's work with the officers money and budget to agree to who is essential and nonessential. and a lot of times, you have the people who work behind the desk who are going to be the ones that go on furlough. then there are others were deemed essential or who do lawrity for their agencies,

enforcement activities and things like that who continue working. you don't see the secret service working for a few don't to be heard it -- you don't see the secret service not working or the border agents not working but they continue to go teresa down. -- through a shutdown. host: we are hearing about nettie pelosi and chuck schumer meeting on tuesday. is it likely this does not go all the way through december 21? guest: it is. i don't like to make the predictions. i think there is not much appetite in congress for a shutdown. there is often, a lot of times, people know that the politics of a shutdown do not help them when it comes down to it. and you haveee seen a lot in the past week or two, is that as congress does not work drop the spring and summer, it rests with the committee.

ire committee's do the work. when we get into these showdown situations, it rises to the leadership level. people like nancy pelosi, chuck schumer, mitch mcconnell, lita mccarthy, you will see those folks be the ones who will actually be negotiating. the committee takes a backseat to what the leaders put together. host: you did not mention speaker ryan. we have not seen very much of him negotiating. he may well be but the people who are out in front are nancy pelosi, you see kevin mccarthy and some of the other ones were expected to be there in the 116th congress. the: if you want to join conversation as we walk through a potential government shutdown, phone lines, as usual. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000.

.ndependents (202) 748-8002 take us back to the government shutdown showdown when you are on capitol hill. what worked with the negotiation process, what does not work? thet: it all depends on give and take a. sometimes, people think they have given up their principles, they're compromising too much, you'll hear that from both sides of the aisle. --se pre-christmas so downs showdowns i become more and more normalized. in 2012, they were in on new year's eve, negotiating up into new year's day. they were voting at 2:00 in the morning on new year's day. so, it depends on the situation. a lot of times, it really has revolved around government spending. people did not want to add to our nations budget deficit and

to the national debt as a whole. so, we saw a whole lot of showdowns that came down to the wire over whether or not to raise the debt ceiling. funding,get emergency it gets to be something people are concerned about. this year, part of the conversation can be the wildfire suppression funds that you had several wildfires out in california that were devastating. you have hurricane and storm relief that sometimes get thrown in the mix as well. sometimes they can go late in the year. that can be something that people hold their breath on. thoughts on fixing the budget process, let's bring in some calls. charlie from arkansas, independent, go ahead. foremost, i amnd backstabbing to the previous conversation regarding the whole wall situation and budget.

i think one ties into the upper. -- other. on -- a lot of it going that going on as far as capitol hill is concerned. my question would be how do the people -- obviously our representatives are not representing us. being a small-town american, i can guarantee you that the decisions that are being made on capitol hill have nothing to do with the interest of independent wills -- individuals like myself. how do we get a voice, how do we thate that the individuals we are empowering to rep is in our interest, how do we make sure they carry that out? guest: you mentioned the elections. there are people who are frustrated with the elections.

is, the truth of the matter dividedican people have government to washington more often than not in the last 20 years. it seems like the process may be broken but it takes more come rise in the decision-making -- compromise in the decision-making. it is about being educated on the issues and sending people to that work for you. i think elections do matter. when it comes time to elect a representative or a senator, you need to make sure that has -- that person has integrity. i think this is our way of democracy. to washington to represent our interests. it is important to stay educated and involved in that. host: in jacksonville, florida, go ahead. caller: i want to make sure i heard the gentleman you have on the correctly that employees would not be furloughed because

the bill has been passed -- the defense bill has in past. your people that are out there in north geoeye with the snowstorms. -- north carolina with the storm storms -- snowstorms. guest: when it comes time on december 21, that would not be part of it. they have seen the full year funding for the year. it would only be a partial shutdown. host: the bills that a pass defense,-- past, energy and water, labor and health and human services. agriculture,t of ,ommerce, homeland security transportation, housing and urban development and smaller agencies as well. we're talking about the shutdown with aaron jones.

explain the committee on budget process reform. -- hascongress is reached a frustration level with the budget process where they feel something needs to be done. and, so, for most of the year, a special committee has been working on a budget process reform. and this was chaired by the budget committee chair. the appropriation's chair on the democratic side has been working hard on that. they have nothing and to come up with any concrete solutions by their deadline. they certainly did advance the conversation, i think throughout the year. host: were you involved? not.: i was i was just an observer. a lot of things they talk about are things that were talked about on capitol hill for several years. biennial budgeting, which would be two your budgeting, rather than doing it one year at a

time. also, trying to find some way to the processce into budget deadlines. throughw they can go the deadlines without any real problems. there has been a lot of discussion to create some way that would jot -- drop if there was something they would miss. host: what about the idea of bringing air much? that would help desk would that help? -- what about the idea of bringing earmarks? would that help? i think it's some cases, they may help people come to the table and work together. i don't think you're going to have people who would normally vote against a bill, particularly people who are in the minority in congress, they may not vote for a majority still because there is in your mark in there. i do think that it does leave

some room for negotiation. were you on capitol hill went your marks -- -- hen your marks guest: when i came into mark processe ear had been as it always been. then you had the scandal to try and tighten up on it. there was the first moved to try and tighten up on it was to pick more chance parity -- transparency in the process. sure they to make knew where we were coming from. the exact place it was going to go to. all of that was put up to a website. rk requests puta into the bill were put into the websites of that people could do that. the9th -- in 2009, when democrats came in, they were

banned by the republican side. ban, before there was a altogether. in that time, it was higher than it had ever been. as a of folks look at that way to really go back to doing that. if there is a way to do your rmarks and a way that people can see out in open -- the open what they are -- host: good morning. guest: -- first of all, because of the cap calling you pager, you should've said that wasn't your name. -- the caller that cap calling you pedro, you should have said that was not your name.

also, the republicans that on sayinghim, he ran that mexico was good to pay for the wall. now, he is putting the burden on american people. i don't understand why his supporters are not outraged. guest: i think that is one of the amazing things about this country. news and somuch much people can find out about what public officials are doing and then we have places like the washington journal where we can talk about that. host: let's talk about why the wilson center is interested in specific reforms that you're congress looks to reform the process. guest: one of the things we do thewe want to make sure american people are as informed as possible as they can be. we actually have a serious game.

which, we created a game called the fiscal ship. we worked with the workings institution to create a game where you have to guide america's fiscal ship into brighter waters. you make choices to change the way the budget is going. one of the great things about this is you are not just pulling levers to say i want to lower this and i want to raise that. you actually have policy implications that go along with that. which goes with what congress members have to deal with. in order to win, you have to create system where the budget is on a sustainable bath and meet the policy goals you set in the beginning. pat and meet the --path and meet the policy goals you set in the beginning. whether it is increasing education or creating a better

safety net. those have budget implications. when you come to a budget negotiation, it is difficult to say i want to do this and that without having something happening to your policy goals. wherewilson center.org is you can play the game. fiscalfiscal center -- ship.org is where the game resides. supported. a trump -- supporter. we are ok with the government they talk about border security. if you look at the cartels and and howy are doing ms-13 is growing in this country, that is a concern for us. is whatn is -- question about balancing the budget gap is there any discussion at all happening on that part?

guest: not as much as it was a few years ago. the truth of the matter is we went to a period of budget cutting in the discretionary millionnd there was 100 dollars that was removed from the discretionary budget. congressman starts to feel like they have taken care of the low hanging fruit and the only way to start making some troop cutbacks is to start going into the entitlements. that is a difficult situation politically for both parties. because, mandatory spending, which is where the entitlements reside, it takes up more than two thirds of the federal budget. you have almost three chilean dollars going to those programs. -- $3 trillion going to those programs. people rely on those and they feel entitled to them, which is why they're called entitlements.

the reform to those is stopped once the political discussion begins. the caller mentioned the national debt. we are creeping up on $2 trillion. larry is in iowa, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you. earlier, you were talking about reforming the budget process. i was curious, i really don't like these government shutdown things. , if they don't pass one of the budgets on day,ulture by a certain the budget automatically becomes the budget for the next year along with that, the authorizations for that particular program would also be extended by one year? that's my question. thank you. guest: i think that is a good

point. that is wanting to discuss. -- one thing to discuss. nothing that happens that would create a situation where they would say no, we want to make sure we get new money for agriculture rather than relying on last year's money. this can actually happen at several points in the budget process. the president is supposed to come out on the first of -- first monday of february. that was very late. there was some discussion like why can't less just budget proposal be put in place a bet if the president comes in so late with it. .he same with budget resolution way, congress would usually say we want to have new priorities. you want to make sure things will change each year, we can be noble and change the priorities.

-- nimble and change the 40's. present job does not have a good track record when it comes to whether they actually set something up like that. congress created a special committee that was supposed to come up with a new budget reform deal. they cut chileans out of the budget. they cannot make it happen. the frustration was supposed to be the act which nobody wanted to handle. nobody wanted to take that on. yet, we passed the deadline and see a kick in and we live with that for several years. before we were able to have in other budget deal in place. host: looking ahead, is this budget fight for a fiscal 2019 going to december 21, is impacting the process and timeline when the fiscal 20 toy budget? are we putting ourselves behind the eight ball next year? -- fiscal 2020 budget? are we putting ourselves behind the eight ball next year? guest: we have been putting ourselves behind the eight ball

because congress has not been ine to pass it before time the past fortysomething years. congress has done well with being able to handle two fiscal years at the same time. changed the process on the administration's side. always startstion its budget process around labor day of the previous year. the agencies to submit their documents and get everything ready for the president's budget release. all of that is still moving forward. congress will just have to do two things at once. they'vew many times been successful in this modern budgeting process, here's a chart from the pew research center. there are four were congress was

able to pass all of its 12 spending bills. remind us of this time period where nothing was passed. guest: 2006 to 2014. there were a lot of crs passed. there's been over 200 crs passed and we've had over 20 shutdowns. when people talk about regular order that is an elusive thing. in the last 40 years we have only done it four times. regular order seems to be not getting it done and getting to a continuing resolution. host: loretto is waiting in mississippi. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. i was calling about the wall thing in the budget. my daughter's boyfriend is undocumented immigrant from mexico and also i have a niece

that had a baby with a guy that was in the ms 13 getting from california -- gang from california so i know the immigration thing personally and my aunt had a man tried to break who was anuse illegal and the cops didn't even want to fool with him breaking into her house. i was calling about the wall thing. they tried before why can't they work on the document of kids that come here when they are children on the way to become legal citizens and also build the wall? is talking about a possible deal on immigration issues. guest: that's the main sticking point in this budget fight right now. the president has asked for $5 billion for the next year. theress has already put in house bill was close to the president's request. there's a large gap there.

the things that needs to be negotiated through. there has been some discussion of may be doing half of that this year with an advance appropriation for the other half for next year. negotiation -- in negotiation. in congress two weeks is a very long time. there's still a lot of time for them to negotiate on that point. dale's in portland, oregon. republican. good morning. good morning. are there any statistics that evidence how much the government saves when there's a federal shutdown for two weeks for example? guest: i have heard it both ways. i have heard there are times when the government ends up spending more and ends up spending less. theink it depends on how administration actually has a

lot of leeway in how a shutdown actually unction and they choose how the agencies are going to run. the other thing is that in all of the previous shutdowns those workers who did work got back pay when congress did created new bill. there wasthe bill something that would say that they got the back pay. host: how likely would it be for that to not be included in a real? -- reopening? guest: anything is possible in washington today. there's a lot of representatives of federal workers who would not want to see that and would fight against that. if history is any guide we have seen them get back pay. host: dale was the caller who asked the question. do you think it would be worth it to risk a shutdown for the wall? caller: we have done this and we have done it successfully. i'm concerned if we are closing down the government because we

don't have the funds for it to continue and it costs more is it prudent to do so? i don't think that's really part of the logic. i think the logic is the shutdown becomes a bargaining chip because nobody really wants a shutdown. everybody would like to fund the government. people see the political problems that come from having a shutdown. there's also a question of whether or not a shutdown. really going to feel a shutdown like they would over the memorial day holiday. host: have they done the essential/nonessential employees study to show where people would see at the most? -- it the most? guest: those things are decided by omb. so every agency has its own plan

of how they would shut down if there came a lapse in appropriations. each agency has that worked out in the administration is a time can dictate how things will shutdown. host: pat in pennsylvania. democrat. caller: good morning. how come theyg don't raise the taxes on rich people to balance the budget and another thing i don't think it cares if the government shut down unless you are in washington, d.c. that's athink discussion that's been going on for quite a while now. wealth inequality, raising taxes. the differences between the parties on whether or not raising taxes would bring in more revenue or lowering taxes would bring in more revenue. we do have a progressive tax system in this country.

the top are paying the most in taxes and those at the bottom are not. thinkk there's people who we raise the taxes on those at the top. there could be some validity to that. it's not something you're just going to have one silver bullet is going to fix everything. you're going to have to do a mixture of things. nobody really wants to have that discussion. host: if they want to game out that discussion what's the website? guest: the game we have is fiscal ship.org. aaron jones, thank you. we will talk about federal support for the automobile industry. our guest is reuters david shepardson. we'll be right back.

>> this week on the communicators, christina chaplin, whose government accountable the office report says that the pentagon system's cyber security is vulnerable. >> right now they don't even test systems for the kinds of threats you might see from russia and china and north korea. they're not allowed to in terms of testing. they don't want to potentially disrupt the system. >> watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. , where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies.

and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court and public policy events in washington, d.c. at around the country. -- and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> when the new congress takes office in january it will have the youngest most diverse freshman class in recent history. new congress, new leaders. watch it live on c-span starting january 3. washington journal continues. host: each week we take a look at how your money is at work in a different federal program. this week in the wake of the general motors layoff announcement from two weeks ago, we are talking about the history of the federal government's support for the automobile industry. joining us is david shepardson with reuters. previously spent 20 years with

detroit news. take us back to 2008. give us a sense of how much the federal government helped gm and the automobile industry during the bailout and what strings we attached when we did that. guest: in the fall of 2008 gm was running out of cash. they went to the bush administration and said if we don't get some sort of emergency systems we could have to close our doors by the end of 2008. hearings with all three companies initially trying to tap this energy department program. it was a green energy program designed to help companies make more fuel-efficient vehicles. the companies came here on private jets. there was a huge controversy and they were brought back for a second round of hearings. congress being congress opted to do nothing.

president bush stepped in on his usingd gave the companies the $700 billion troubled asset assistanceram direct to gm, chrysler and the finance companies. was dispersed over both the bush and obama administrations. one of the conditions the obama administration required was both gm and chrysler to go through bankruptcy. as part of that the obama administration forced the marriage of fiat and chrysler. fiat took control of chrysler what it had to meet certain benchmarks to get certain percentage stakes of ownership in the company. the biggest issue was in order to do this very fast restructuring, it required the taxpayers to swap big chunks especially in the case of gm the

loans for stock in the new company. the government came in with a huge amount of cash and said to the bankruptcy court either agree to our deal. we will buy the company, we will basically out and what creditors would pay because we have so much money. u.s. taxpayers gave gm about $50 billion. canadian taxpayers about $10 billion. u.s. taxpayers recovered about $40 billion and that's because the stock when taxpayer sold it was not worth as much as what taxpayers were owed. host: do we still own any of that stock? guest: it took several years. it was not until gm, first gm had ipo and the government ended later in thet obama administration. it took several years because policy officials were deciding should we wait to see if the

stock went up high enough or should we illuminate the risk. -- eliminate the risk. host: the federal government investing $51 billion in gm, recouping $39 billion when all that stock was sold off. alliance financial at 17.2 billion invested. 19.6 billion returned and then chrysler financial 1.5 billion invested in returned. what promises specifically did gm make to the united states government when they took this money? guest: the didn't have to make that many promises. the idea if you talk to steve ratner was they wanted to make this company financially viable again. they had to commit to building a fuel-efficient vehicle that got

a certain amount of miles per gallon. they did not have to make any specific requirements like heaping the plants open or keeping a number of workers. to movernment's aim was them outside of government control. they didn't want to do what happens in europe where a lot of european governments like in germany the state owns a big chunk of volkswagen. we're having this conversation two weeks after gm announced those layoffs. some 15,000 factory and white-collar jobs gm cutting in the next year or so. if you want to join the conversation eastern or central time zones (202) 748-8000. mountain or pacific time zones (202) 748-8001. special line for those who worked in the automobile .ndustry (202) 748-8003 us to the8 to bring

ongoing support the federal government has for the automobile industry. a story in today's washington times talks about the tax credits that gm is continuing to ask the federal government four. what are these tax credits? during the obama administration congress approved this $7,500 tax credit as part of the stimulus. that gives electric vehicle buyers accredit as long as the battery pack is of a certain size. the following quarter it starts to phase out over the next 12 months so tesla hit that number in july. its phaseout will begin january 1. the credit will be cut in half for tesla buyers. that 200s to hit vehicle cap earlier this year. completely phasing out in some time in 2020.

they have been lobbying to get congress to extend the cap because they are worried and they point to other countries where the credits have gone down and a big fall of an electric vehicle sales. the other companies with the exception of nissan are not close to him that cap. if it makes sense in the short term to give a big benefit to gm or tesla that could keep the whole industry. host: after the gm job cut announcements when the president said we are looking at cutting gm subsidies, his criticism of the company after they announced these cuts. this is what he's talking about. guest: perhaps. there's a big debate on fuel efficiency standards. during the obama administration it was doubled to 50 miles per gallon by 2025. the trump administration has proposed freezing those standards at 2020, reversing the obama administrations hikes in the last five years.

gm has asked for is electric vehicle credits. if you produce electric vehicles you get close to those requirements. companies are pushing for them. we have heard different stories. it could be that because the only thing the trump administration can do is veto or oppose congress lifting that cap. host: we're talking about the federal government support for the automobile industry. david shepardson is one of the best guys in d.c. to ask about auto policy. john is first in elmhurst, illinois. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i'm a chevy volt owner, both my children are chevy cruise owners. they are planning on illuminating both of those cars. with all the government money

that has been given to the gm, i feel they have an obligation to continue these products. past 2008 they got into trouble because they did not have the smaller cars. were all larger vehicles. they should consider these smaller vehicles and the government should put pressure on them to continue. that's my thought. guest: it was a big shift. gm is getting rid of a big number of cars. bolt, the fully electric vehicle. gm is still losing money. -- arec vehicles on expensive. they are not selling well outside of california. it is a concern that if oil prices spike, would we see a shift back where people were rushing to their dealerships and getting rid of their suvs and buying cars?

right now the shift is really dramatic. ago about 50% of all vehicles sold in the u.s. were cars. people are really shifting away companiesin the u.s. don't make any money on those and that's why you have seen them move away. it is a risk if oil prices go up again. host: in ohio, danny. good morning. caller: i'm not too far from detroit city and i remember when detroit was king. we had people like delorean. we have people like shelby. they made cars that americans wanted. crisisn we had the oil in the 1970's and people started more fuel-efficient cars like the japanese cars and america's problem was we could never get it. our dna is to make the best cars.

we invented the car. we know how to make it the best and i support the president on slapping tariffs on cars because when we sent our cars there they slept heavy duties on them and a lot of times they dump on our country's basically for free. i think they need to get back to making cars the way they used to make them. guest: during the auto bail in 2008 president obama turned to one of his advisors and said why can't chrysler gm build a toyota corolla? he basically made the same point that u.s. companies historically have not made as competitive a small cars. what do they do well? pickup trucks and suvs and they make huge profits on those vehicles. so the u.s. companies have not been competitive. in the 80's the u.s. did have cars like the ford escort.

there were more competitive vehicles in part because the whole market was shifted more towards cars. i think realistically the u.s. has put a lot of money and a lot of the u.s. cars are very nice cars. they do well relative to the japanese and the german companies doing cars. realistically they don't sell as well and u.s. companies have decided to put our resources in the vehicles that we think people want and can make money on. democrataking of ohio, tim ryan took to the house floor . also very critical of those job cuts. here's a bit of what he had to say. >> when you have a company many years ago that gets a rescue package from the taxpayers in the united states, many years later, last year they got $157 million in a tax cut that we were told was going to be spent

for workers and factors and jobs in the heartland. and turn around and cut 14,000 jobs, and their stock price goes up 6%. system a broken economic that we have in the united states of america. host: tim ryan on the house floor two weeks ago. talk about tax reform and what it meant for gm and what gm said it was going to do. the tax numbers are actually not huge for gm. it's called net operating losses. the new gm was formed from the remnants of it, they were able to keep those. the tax issue is not a huge issue. it's not a big number. the company that third-quarter

made to $25 billion in profits. -- $2.5 billion in profits. gm never said if we get the corporate tax cuts we are going to add more jobs. i think with tim ryan and -- and is a bipartisan anger think what caught gm by surprise was the level of anger toward the company. the result a lot of ribbing the band-aid off of the bailout. there is still anger toward the company. host: why was mary barra surprised by that? guest: gm position to this as we have to do this. these cars aren't selling. from a business standpoint gm thinks this makes sense. lordstown lost its first shift the day after the election. lost another shift earlier this year.

it's down to one shift. authority lost 3000 workers at that land. -- plant. it is barely running. gm2 is youge to close the plant and stop a bigng the chevy cruise, part of those job cuts is cutting a thousand salaried jobs. most them in the detroit area working on these cars that are going away. host: we have the special line for those in the automobile industry. otherwise phone lines as usual. easterner central time zones (202) 748-8000. mountain or pacific time zones (202) 748-8001. kenny is just outside d.c., laurel, maryland. caller: i'm very close to baltimore county where gm has one of those plants to be closed. 2008, gm was in

known from general motors to government mergers -- motors. i'm happy the government has sold all the shares they own on the company but it seems like in the near future gm might be coming back to the taxpayers for more relief. do you think there's an appetite for any additional relief or aid to the auto industry? not just gm ford and the other companies. is there any appetite for any future relief or financial relief or aid to these companies? guest: i don't think there's any chance in the short term that companies are going to ask for aid or receive aid.

gm made to have billion dollars in profits. the auto companies generally are all making money right now. this is about the long-term. the auto companies say the industry is on the precipice of a historic shift away from the internal combustion toward autonomous vehicles and ridesharing. this is about preparing the company for that. there's also the chance of a recession. u.s. auto sales are still very strong this year. in 2009 after the collapse, in 2008 the u.s. sold about 10 million vehicles. there has been a steady ramp up of auto sales. it's hard to say no to the auto industry because the auto industry despite all of the anger toward it provides a lot of jobs. not just the auto plans. that's also the suppliers.

the transmission plants. the places near the factories. throughout the world when auto companies get in trouble oftentimes governments are willing to do it. that baltimore plant the caller talked about, why did gm build that? the taxpayers gave gm $105 million to build that planned. it's rare that a private business gets upwards of $100 million to build the plant that ultimately ends up closing a few years later. host: i want to talk about the chart that the federal government invested in gm. $39 billion is what the government recouped. did we sell too early? if we had waited longer could we have recouped the whole thing? rememberm trying to the exact price now. certainly the breakeven price even today is below what the taxpayers would have been required to taxpayers would have

been getting dividends every quarter. i don't know if the taxpayers would have made whole. they certainly would have lost less. host: is anybody pushing the federal government to stay in longer on that? the 2012 campaign mitt romney said he wanted to sell the shares as soon as possible to he thought one of the reasons the obama administration was the links telling his they were worried it would become a campaign issue. as long as they help the sales -- held the sales it was a loss on paper until the taxpayers sold the shares. taxpayerselection the sold the final shares. even -- given were the prices were, in the short term we were not going to recover all the money. host: tom in virginia. caller: good morning.

i love c-span. i have auto industry experience on both sides of my family. we go to michigan every summer and i have watched for the last 30 years where it just seems like there's not a lot of creativity coming out of detroit when it comes to cars. they are good with the big and they are just not very creative when it comes to capturing people's imagination or romance with vehicles. there's a place called the gilmore auto museum. we went there with our kids a couple years ago and they have giant buildings full of lincoln's and x -- lincolns and cadillacs. why don't they take these old designs and put them on a modern frame and have them get decent mileage? and i'd buy one.

i would buy one tomorrow. they can't keep making the same blocky ugly cars. now they are pushing they don't want to have good mileage. do they just think we're stupid? host: thanks for the call. guest: i would say what is the best selling car in america? the toyota camry. that has historically been a pretty boring car. who are buying them? ,eople who want to get to work move their kids around. the problem has been people aren't taking their kids around in the toyota camry as often. they're getting their crossovers. i think detroit has done a lot of work to improve those. if you put in them pollack -- camry,impala next to a these cars basically look the same. they are very similar. some small design cues.

a lot of it is what's under the hood to what people think of the brand. the companies have tried to make the styling more bold and aggressive and so on. that said, you have a low profit margin on these cars. even the japanese companies have had to raise incentives to get able to keep buying small cars. as the industry shifts away from cars, even hard for the company still selling lots of cars. gm is trying. cadillac has a little more fancy styling, it is also a lot more expensive. if you have money in the luxury cars there is a little more fun. we are never going to go back to , 1960's hugedmen cars that got eight miles to the

gallon. host: in new hampshire. go ahead. of the factors is that the fit and finish and quality is so much better on the european and asian vehicles. i looked at the cruise. i thought about buying it. i would have wanted if they had a wagon. they make a wagon version of the cruise in europe but there's no all-wheel-drive. and of course the wagon is not available here. this year i think it's nissan ultima has come out with all-wheel-drive. none of the chevy sedans had all-wheel-drive available. there are no more station wagons which is an alternative to the suv. i'm presently driving a volvo v60 with front wheel drive would prefer the all-wheel-drive. the fit and finish, the ergonomics. the volvo lacks a few things in their economics that i complain about. generally speaking when you sit

in a car like a volvo or volkswagen or one of the japanese products the interior is so much better done in the american cars. the american manufacturers have just been out to lunch. it is sad. it's unfortunate. i don't you're in for the days of the 60's and 70's american cars because they were junky. that's why the japanese took over. for the last 14 years i have driven eight cylinders. they were expensive to maintain but a dream to drive. guest: u.s. companies definitely recognized they had a huge problem. a lot of the interiors were not as the same quality as others. they have improved those quite a bit. in terms of fit and finish the germans don't necessarily do as perceived. brand perception lags reality.

buick typically scores in thesey high surveys. another example i would say is tesla's fit and finish is probably one of the poorest in the industry and yet their brand perception is a lot better than some of these u.s. companies. all the companies, the vehicles have gotten much better. you have to walk through the dealerships and look at all the different vehicles. generally all the vehicles have gotten much better. host: jeff is in clifton, new jersey. go ahead. caller: good morning. my question is why don't we hold the shareholders responsible when a company goes into default like gm instead of the american people bailing them out? the board, the ceos. if they had a little bit more to say instead of taking their

dividends maybe we would get better products. you are exactly right. here's what happened in the bailout of in 2008. the bondholders took a big haircut. the obama administration fired the ceo. most of the board was replaced in the executives got a two thirds haircut from the value of their pensions. the shareholders are responsible and ultimately in a normal bankruptcy the company would have been sold off in the creditors would have picked up the remnants. did the creditors get paid more obama administration had not agreed to the bankruptcy restructuring. the shareholders, the bondholders are on the hook in cases like this. because autoe is jobs are seen as so important to the economy which has led to the extraordinary intervention by

president bush and then president obama. host: bill works in the automotive industry. go ahead. caller: my question is about autonomous vehicles. we have a lot of players here. auto industry, oil industry, insurance industry. we've got state and federal regulatory movements but not much. we've got good research like at the rand corporation. we seem kind of stuck in the home av arena. what's the way forward? guest: you are right. we are stuck. so congress has been considering for over a year now the into use. vehicle that bill unanimously passed the house of representatives last year. it has been stalled in the senate over concerns of safety.

there has been a last-ditch effort to get the bill approved. it seems unlikely but it is possible. in terms of why the vehicles themselves are not coming as quickly part of it is the technology. the google self-driving car announced they were going to launch the first commercial self-driving car program. fully self driving with no one in the driver seat. it turns out way mo is going to have safety drivers in the front seat and it's very limited in the area of arizona it can be used and you have to be approved to take part in the program. it's not like uber or lyft. it's very slow. very gradual and there are safety drivers in the front seat. general motors had said in january they were going to start a similar ridesharing fleet in san francisco. sometime in 2019. gm petitions for exemption from those rules that require a

steering wheel, brake pedals. a year later the ntsb still has not declared the application complete. paralysis,ot of concern the regulatory side and concerns of technology. in march there was a universe of driving car in arizona that was self driving car in arizona that was being tested and struck and killed pedestrian. -- a pedestrian. has: david shepardson covered the automotive industry for decades. currently with reuters. we always appreciate your time. we will end our program today with this question. as president trump is searching for his next chief of staff after john kelly is set to step down in the coming weeks, we are asking you who should be the president's next chief of staff.

republicans, democrats and independents. you can start calling in now. we will be right back. >> this week on the communicators, christina chaplin, whose government accountability office report says that the pentagon weapon system cyber security is horrible. they don't even test systems for the kinds of threats that you might see from russia and china and north korea. they are not allowed to in terms of testing. they don't want to potentially disrupt this is the -- the system. >> c-span. where history unfolds daily. in 1979 is ben was created as a public service by america's cable television company. and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the

supreme court and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. when the new congress takes office in january they will have the youngest most diverse freshman class in recent history. new congress new leaders. watch it live on c-span starting january 3. >> washington journal continues. host: our program ends at 10:00 today. we are asking should be president trump's next chief of staff? john kelly will be leaving his post at the end of the month at the en. president trump saying on twitter last night that he

expects to make an announcement soon. there's plenty of speculation and we will get into that. we are asking you think it should. republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. (202) 748-8002. it will not be the current chief of staff for vice president mike pence. president rumors that trump wanted to tap him for that job. they were unable to come to an agreement on the length of his term as chief of staff. other names that have been thrown out, mark meadows. mick mulvaney. and plenty of other speculation as well. tell us who you think should be the top advisor to the president of the united states. who should run his staff at the white house. jim is up first in st.

petersburg, florida. democrats. caller: i think trump should be his own chief of staff and if you doesn't want to do it than he should give the job to his son-in-law jared kushner. host: why do you think jared kushner? caller: why not? anybody't listen to except the son-in-law so why shouldn't he have anybody else as a chief of staff? why even bother wasting the money? that's jim in st. petersburg this morning. let us know your thoughts this morning. ayers.re on nick of him from the wall street journal on the day he was being sworn in as mike pence is chief of staff.

he told mr. trump that he couldn't commit to the job for more than the first three months of next year. mr. trump who initially proposed that timeline ultimately decided he wanted somebody in the job for a longer-term according to the white house official that spoke to the wall street journal. mr. ayers tweeting about his job, thanking president trump and vice president mike pence on twitter. and thinking the rest of his sittinges for the honor i will be departing at the end of the year. that's the reporting from the wall street journal this morning. we're asking you to join in the conversation. phone lines democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002.

todayhe washington times plenty of discussion about the willy that john kelly leave behind at the white house after his time is chief of staff there. interview corey heatedwski said he had disagreements with mr. kelly and his very happy the president is going to bring in a new team which is securing a second term in office. along with the other staff departures the president announcing over the weekend the departure of william barr as attorney general. christie in springfield, virginia. republican line. go ahead. caller: i propose his next chief of staff to be david boston. ande him a lot on the news

just think he would have good rapport with president trump. host: is good rapport with president trump the key characteristic that the next chief of staff should have? caller: you know what? they have to get along with one another so yes. host: what else should the next chief of staff bring to the job, christie? caller: i guess keep an eye on him as much as he can. host: connie is in brookville, maryland. democrat. good morning. i feel that ayers didn't take the job because he has his whole career ahead of him. he wants tok jeopardize that in the face of all the indictments and everything with trump. someone who is much closer to retirement is in a position to take that kind of chance.

that was my feeling and listening to all of this. kenneth is next in martinsburg, west virginia. independent or good morning -- independent. good morning. caller: i'm confused. when trump ran for reelection, congress had a 20% approval rating at best. and he promised to drain the swamp. and then the voters loved it. but they went out, correctly if i'm wrong. they reelected over 90% of the incumbents. were vying for reelection. that doesn't compute in my head. and this show appears to just confirm just how ignorant the mass voter is like the guy who said trump shouldn't hire a chief of staff.

he honestly doesn't understand what the job entails. winston churchill said that the best argument against a democracy is a five-minute conversation with your average voter. and when i watch this show, it confirms that fact. and i think the show is nothing to confirm tool used to the people in congress that the voters are just as ignorant as they hope they are. host: that's kenneth in west virginia this morning. this is the present from 13 hours ago. reporting was taking place about nick ayers and whether he was in or out. the president tweeting i am in the process of interviewing some really great people for the position of white house chief of staff. fake news has been saying certainty that it will be nick

ayers. soonl be making a decision . as the president is working on that decision we are asking you who should be the next chief of staff? who would you recommend to the president of the united states? republican. caller: i think nikki haley would be a good choice. host: why is that? caller: if nothing else she is just a breath of fresh air. trump was supposed to go to washington and clean out the swamp. that hasn't happened. everything is basically the same. only differences trump is there. nikki haley has experience. she did a great job when she was with the u.n. and i think she is somebody that trump would listen to. host: why do you think she is somebody that he would listen to? caller: she has some good ideas. she is new. the fact that she is a woman,

trump seems to get along better with women than he does with men. i don't know what that is all about. john kelly was a good pick. a is a solid person and it's shame it didn't work but it's time for a change and i think she would be a good change. host: what you like about john kelly or anything that he did while he was chief of staff? just from theer: military aspect, he tried to bring discipline. you just can't go wrong with somebody that has the years of experience in the military that he had. i don't know why it didn't work. i think things could have been a lot worse with some of the other picks that were originally put out there. i think john kelly did a good job. it is time for a change. host: did you like reince

priebus when he was chief of staff? i don't think that he had enough time to really do anything. i don't have an opinion one way or the other on him. usa today with some notable nuggets from john kelly's tenure in the white house. on day one as chief of staff he fired anthony scaramucci. lasting only 10 days in the white house job of communications director. john kelly also helped orchestrate steve bannon's departure from the white house. the architect of trump's campaign and had the president's ear but frequently clashed. his departure was announced in august of 2017 just a month after kelly began his work in the white house. kelly was tasked with firing omarosa manigault newman, the reality star who followed

president trump to the white house. she secretly taped her conversation with kelly and other officials when she was brought into the situation room to be dismissed. noting the tapes are to security concerns and questions of how she was able to get a cell phone and secretly record in the situation room which is supposed to be one of the most since given secure places in the united states. geraldine is in st. louis, missouri. he should puthink anybody in. let him run the country the way he's running it. he's running it into the ground. he and doing no good job. he hasn't done a good job since the day he walked into that office. he has done nothing but tell lies and be deceitful and you republicans know it. host: did you like john kelly as a chief of staff? caller: no i did not like him because he didn't know how to treat people. he had the same kind of thinking ways as trump does wanted to run the country into the ground.

i do think they should put anybody and i deftly don't think they should put his son-in-law because he's nothing but a dumb butt. host: in michigan. go ahead. i listened to all these comments and i think one of our major issues in this administration is there is such a high turnover and nobody is discussing the issue with him a currentable to keep full cabinet to get anything that he wants to get done completed. it's very frustrating in the time that he's been in office. there has been nothing but controversy. is there somebody who could take over the chief of staff position that you think could help change that? caller: it is so hard to decide. i don't really have the answer for that. we look at all of these throughoutrospects

this administration and i just can't think of anybody who would be enough of a good fit because i think any person who can balance it would be in a undoant state of trying to -- i don't how to describe it. i'm sorry. in pittsburgh. a republican. go ahead. good morning. i would like to get somebody from the past. i think pat buchanan would be a great chief of staff. he's got a strong enough personality still trump -- to tell trump no and he knows more about politics than any details on the scene today. host: what to do think of john kelly? -- did you think of john kelly? caller: i don't know that much about john kelly. host: from capitol hill,

lawmakers of both parties saying they are said to see john kelly depart. ryan says he has become a trusted partner. he has become a force for order, clarity and good sense. senator marco rubio said the stability of the white house going forward depends on who ,hey put in as a replacement saying i'm a fan of john kelly during his interview on cnn and then chris murphy of connecticut saying he's worried about mr. kelly leaving. i imagine he was one of the people convincing the president not to fire bob mueller. to issue pardons as a means of trying to influence the investigation. he added that it will raise concerns in congress that mueller may be on the chopping block. dan in hillsboro, oregon. a republican. caller: i don't have a problem

with mark meadows or dave bossi. those are two men they can look over their shoulder and smell a rat. they are two guys that stand by the president and what he wants to get done with his agenda and i just believe they know how to we people out and he will set the record straight. itthere is somebody wrong shouldn't be in the cabinet or anything like that. these guys have been around for a while and they are pretty smart. host: what about this other name also in the mix? matthew whitaker, the acting attorney general who was recently passed over for permanent attorney general. president trump saying he would nominate william barr for that. caller: i don't have a problem with whitaker and i don't have a problem with kris kobach.

we have to get somebody in who's going to do the job and that's all there is to it and i think mr. kelly, he was a good man. but he just wasn't there. you know what i mean? host: what do you mean? caller: i just think he was in the previous administration and i don't think that's good. a few minutes left in our program today if you want to join the conversation. .epublicans (202) 748-8001 democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. we are asking for you think president trump should appoint as his next chief of staff. the president confirming on twitter yesterday that he's in -- we may very well have some news in the coming days.

we want to hear from you. bonnie is up next in hyattsville, maryland. democrat. go ahead. yes.r: it's very hard to say because trump wants people to go along with what he says and he don't want to listen to what other people have to say to him. so it's just hard. host: do you have any suggestions as to who you think might be able to get through on that if that's your concern? caller: no. i really don't. it's just hard. a reminder to turn down your television as you are waiting to talk to us. it makes the conversation going with sera. democrat good morning. caller: hello young man. it probably should be someone like sarah palin or what

we all know that kelly is no different than tillerson and all those other men are good decent human beings who had to work for someone who basically -- if you ever looked at the trump rallies it says it all. that's not america. it was america when i was growing up but now it's not. sarah palin would be a good choice because they are both nuts. , texas.ange grove republican. your thoughts on who president trump should tap for that job. ken.r: this is i think trump should choose dr. michael savage. that's my choice. host: why is that? caller: i listen to his radio

talk show and he seems to have the ear of the people and he seems to get along with mr. trump pretty good. i think that would be a good pick. host: what did you think about john kelly? caller: john kelly, he was pretty good. he couldn't keep up with the president. host: what do you mean? president, he gets along pretty good. he gets going everywhere. he's just a man on the go all the time. you got to have a high energy person to keep up with them. -- him. host: bernard in l grove, california -- elk grove, california. independent. caller: i've got an idea. youngster, hehat

made the right choice getting out of there. he don't need all of that. host: you're talking about nick ayers? caller: yeah. yes. he does not need all that in his life. he seems so happy in the oval office when he got elected with the russians there. maybe he should have a pipeline straight to the kremlin. that might make him happy. that is he takes his orders from anyways. host: bernard in california our last caller in today's "washington journal" but we will be back tomorrow morning. in the meantime, have a great monday. ♪

>> coming up in about half an hour on c-span, british prime minister theresa may speaking to the house of commons in london about her plan calling for a delay in the vote on leaving the european union we will have live coverage of that starting at 10:30 a.m. eastern here. later today, the u.s. house will be in session starting at noon eastern for general speeches. and we will be back at 2:00 p.m. for legislative business. on the agenda today, a bill allowing offshore wind farms in guam and puerto rico and legislation directing the national park service to study whether george w. bush's boyhood home in midland, texas, should become part of the national parks system. later in the week, a resolution condemning russian aggression last month against ukrainian chips. possible the house can vote on a

farm bill in the government spending bill. when the house comes into session at noon, we will have live coverage here on c-span. new congress takes office in january, it will have the youngest, most diverse freshman class in recent history. new congress. new leaders. watch it live on c-span starting january 3. >> new jersey senator cory booker spoke at the new hampshire democrat's post-midterm election celebration this past saturday. after the senator's remarks, he took pictures with attendees to the event. are celebrating this phenomenal victory. you are here to celebrate each of the great officials we heard from and all the great things they are going to do. the next speaker is here because he deserves to b