country in some capacity whether it's to the military, education, conservation, i don't give a damn what that is, what we need tthat we needto go back and have understand they go something back to the country and they have a responsibility to give back. [applause] thank you. [applause] thank you. great to be with you. >> coming up, the washington institute on near east policy: discussion on civil disobedience in iran, which is market its

40th anniversary next year. p.m.verage begins at 12:30 eastern. at our table, jules polonetsky, chief privacy officer for american online and double-click. for folks who don't know, that is a brand of google. , what is thesky future of privacy forum? guest: we try to be the center of the world of privacy. we work with companies' chief privacy officer's to make sure when companies use data, they are doing it in a responsible way. we also work with economics and civil society folks who worry that those folks are taking us down and out -- that those companies are taking us down an orwellian path. don't like our privacy being intruded when companies do things that are

surprising or unexpected. host: we want to talk to you about this "new york times" story. how concerned are you about this? guest: in some places i'm a little concerned, and some places i am very concerned. first of all, nothing very new year. that apps andy online tracking have worked for a decade, and we still as consumers don't understand it. it is complicated, it is hard, and we don't have the time. we just want to turn on our phones and get where we need to get. we don't need to be technical experts. in the background, complicated and detailed business models have been built that depend on our data being sold and shared and traded. some people don't care. my app is free. whatever. nothing bad seems to be happening. likes on a fairly, are

what is going on? there's a market of companies bidding and buying my data? key is first understanding what works so policymakers can decide if we need legislation. the federal trade commission can decide if we need to do any enforcement. some of this is tricky. there are companies obviously keeping people in the dark. do people understand what they are agreeing to? data how is it that this -- or what is happening to the data, first off? are there any regulations? guest: many years ago i was the commute -- i was a consumer affairs commissioner in new york. free,we told people that don't get too excited. nothing is free. businesses are not giving you free things. businesses are getting your stuff in return for something, and if it isn't money, it is something else. it is probably your information

and your data. first of all, the federal trade commission has the authority under its current statutes, even if we don't give them even more authority, and i hope we do -- we could talk about the legislation that is perhaps coming our way in washington -- but they have the authority to freeze things that are unfair or deceptive. if in the big print i say here are the nice things i will do for you, and then i bury deep down what the real deal is, the reality is the ftc can look at many of these apps who probably say to you -- we've all had an app that has that pop up that says this app would like your location, yes or no. we say yes, we say no. app, ofs a mapping

course it needs my location. sometimes an app really doesn't need your location. there was a case the ftc brought against a flashlight app that asked for your location. it was selling that location to advertisers who were buying it and trading it, and it didn't say anything at all. saavedra that case and said, no. that is illegal. you can't say and i have your location, thank you, and then go sell it and hide that disclosure elsewhere. i'm hoping the ftc takes a hard look at many of the examples that were highlighted in "the new york times" and says, wait a second. is this deceptive? we have the authority today to act on it. the ftc could probably use some more authority. there's an effort away in washington. this year's eve like it is getting real traction. everybody seems to agree that we

need privacy legislation. and everybody seems to agree that the ftc needs more staff, more authority, needs the ability to issue fines. when it is kids that are involved, the ftc can issue ites, but in most cases needs to sue you and say you may not do that anymore, and unless it shows that people are actually hurt and there is money to get back -- which usually is -- the ftc doesn't have as big a bite. it is probably time, certainly time, to give them that authority so they can use a bigger stick and send a stronger message. host: we want our viewers to join this conversation. if you have any questions or concerns about your privacy and what you are downloading, call in. republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats -- excuse me, we are going to do this eastern and central.

know whatd let us your questions are for jules polonetsky. about that consumers can't show they've been hurt, necessarily. credit go to the point where your data is being used in a way that harms you economically or otherwise? guest: yes. the harm question is important. in most countries around the world, we don't say did you get hurt. we say you've got privacy rights here. you got a human right to have some control over what happens to your data, and we don't tolerate things that are intrusive or in violation. you don't have to actually lose money or be particularly damaged. in the u.s., the courts have held that our current law only gives us that amount. we do need to go further than just harm and recognize that

this is an intrinsic right, number one. number two, and most of these cases, what is happening is you are getting a targeted ad elsewhere. businesses are going to know you are passing by their premises and you are going to get an ad. we've all been in the major pharmacy chains. your phone for maybe the news or to price check something online, and the ads are from that venue. that is typically what's happening. i worry that foreign governments , people who want to do ill come the data is quite accessible, and as the reporters for "the times" showed, they were able to find individual paths of people traveling around. that obviously could be risky. here's what i worry about. i can target ads just to members of congress, just to reporters

who leave tv stations, just to people who may be left a military base. that is a very powerful and dangerous step. there was another country that was -- and other company that was targeting people at abortion clinics with a message trying to persuade them not to do it. making decisions about where i am and messages to show me when i am at places that maybe i don't want to be reached and tracked, that really could be incredibly distressing to people. host: the google ceo was testifying on capitol hill this week. i want to show our viewers what he had to say about data-gathering practices that company. >> is it true that the android operating system sends google information every few minutes detailing the exact location of a smartphone within a few feet, the speed of movement, the altitude, the position to determine what floor of the building the phone is on, the

temperature surrounding the phone, and other readings? with americans carrying phones with them at virtually all times, doesn't the collection of this volume of the killed information really mean that google is compiling information about virtually every movement and individual with a smartphone every hour of every day? >> mr. chairman, thank you for the question. , for any service we provide our users, we go to great lengths to protect their privacy, and we give them transparency, choice and control. android is a powerful platform, and provides smartphones for over 2 billion people. , it usesf that applications users choose to use. if you are using a fitness application counting the number of steps you walk, it is a choice users make. host: your reaction to hearing that from the ceo. guest: we have the supercomputer in our pocket and we treat it

like a phone. our congress member is right in pointing out that there's an enormous amount of data being broadcast every second i have this phone on, even if i am not actively doing anything with it. some of it is data we want broadcast. we want our location to be useful to us. we want things being personalized. we want our assistants knowing where we are and taking us to the next location. the question is what is the further use. we get that there is an exchange and servicest apps need data to function well, and we want them for auctioning well. we get annoyed if we open up our location and it has us across the street or on an overpass. the reality is the way these devices have gotten so good, years ago when you used one of his gps things in your car, it had you nearby.

you waited if it was cloudy. they were beaming off of satellites. what has made these accurate now is they look around the space you are in, they recognize that local wi-fi network. the reason it always knows where you are when you are at home is you use your wi-fi network. but your phone also knows all of the wi-fi networks in the world because google and apple and microsoft and other companies have mapped the addresses of those networks. when you turn on your phone, you are contributing to this global database of wi-fi networks. --r phone is looking around you probably agreed to it without knowing when you set up --r you probably agreed to it without knowing when you set up your phone -- so every time you turn on your phone, you are volunteering not just your location, but all of the wi-fi networks or bluetooth beacons near you that going to these giant databases, and as a result, companies who want to

know where you are, your phone sees those and situates itself exactly are hats in the room. the answer to the congressman might have been if the wi-fi network for that particular room wasn't local to that congressional building, indeed not just google, apple, anybody working with your phone knows it. what can we do about it? you say, well, i don't know. i like the ads. find. but if -- fine. but if you are going to places where you don't want to be known , or you don't like the notion that companies or app developers can find them, there are millions and millions of apps that are also accessing that location around the world. they are in china. they are in europe. some of them are teenagers in a garage. so you may want to be thoughtful about, do i know this brand and trust them.

so what do you do? we don't want to turn off our location. sure. if you can recover to do so and want to save your battery, all power to you. but typically you turn it on because you need it and then you forget about it. what you can do is each of the major operating systems, android and ios, will let you go in and turn off location per app. if you go in the settings, you will see there are all sorts of apps you gave locations to because you were looking for a bank or had some reason and then you forgot about it. many of them are continuing to collect location. turn that off. if you need it again you will turn it back on. obviously your map and so forth you want directions right away when you are in traffic. again, for people who want to do that, all power to you. i know i always get lazy. number two, if you want those

apps getting your location but don't let this tracking business , we all knew about cookies, right? we should understand that every website i see is working with different tracking companies, and because a unique idea is being set on my computer, that's unique id is being set -- unique id is being set on my computer, those companies can see where i am. those third parties, how do they know it is you? they have location, but they need to know it is you. it is the advertising id that is sort of your social security number on the internet. you have some ability. apple gives you the ability to turn it off forever. somebody can get your location, but they don't know who it is. google allows you to clear it. you can reset it so all your previous history isn't there anymore. not too tricky to find, but what you need to do is look for what

is called the advertising id. we all know about turning off location, and the fact you turnell a specific app to off a location, but the companies getting this are typically using this cookie type .hing, a mobile advertising id on apple phones you can turn it off and it is like clearing your cookies forever. on google, you can at least reset it and wipe out your previous history. host: let's go to calls. ken in michigan. caller: hello. talk about google. i was just wondering, you google your name and is all kinds of sites for nine dollars and nine cents to sell you more information about yourself. guest: there's a whole sector called the people search industry. they all work with databases, most of his that is data that is

available about you. there's a lot of information that is easy to hoover up about you. it might be data buried deep down in google, but their expertise is

i am optimistic that will help. because of that strong california law, companies are pressing congress to override it. they don't like that law. why should it be different in each state? that will be one of the big things in 2019. host: he will go to -- we will go to tacoma, washington. mary is watching us. hi.er: by your standards, i am a neanderthal when it comes to data collection. i stop with my desktop. i don't have a smart phone. i don't do any of these mobile things. i don't do apps. >> hello, everyone. i'm a senior fellow at the washington institute for near east policy.