former white house adviser martin ginsburg on the trump administration decision to pull u.s. troops out onsyria, and a conversation the top issues facing veterans heading into 2019 with nikki weatherly, a reporter with stars & stripes. is next. [video clip] >> today's events have made one thing clear, president trump is plunging the country into chaos. ♪ host: those comments last evening by the senate democratic leader chuck schumer as washington braces for the possibility of a partial government shutdown days before christmas. friday morning, december 21. if the house, senate, and president do not agree on a spending plan, the shutdown begins at midnight. the ball is in the senate's port after members of the house passing a bill that includes $5 billion for the border. the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell breaking with the president by saying he is "

the stressed," at the resignation of defense secretary jim mattis. low.ow at a 14 month marketwatch.com warning we are on the "precipice of a bear market." the words being used, crisis, turmoil, uncertainty, and chaos. our phone lines are open at 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8000 if you are a democrat. for independents, 202-748-8002. send us a tweet and we will read it at --@or join us on facebook --send us a tweet and we will read it @cspanwj or send us -- talk to us on facebook.com/cspan . the president just a short while ago tweeting to senate republican leader mitch mcconnell the tweet reading "senator mitch mcconnell should fight for the wall and border security as hard as he fought for anything."

we will need democrat votes. good things happen. if enough dems don't vote, it will be a democratic shutdown. house republicans were great yesterday. this is the headline from the new york post, the wall i want for christmas. reuters with this headline, trump ends the year in chaos. is it chaos? tell us what you think. trump's presidency lurched from crisis to crisis since he took office less than two years ago. thursday was a landmark day of chaos that appeared to test the resolve of even senior republican backers in washington. even some of trump's friends showed worry about where his administration is headed to paris to mitch mcconnell issuing a statement expressing great reservations about why mattis left. i am distressed he is resigning due to differences with the president. that from reuters.

joining us on the phone is neal, he follows the house and senate for row call. you cover the senate in particular. what is going to happen? we are going to try and figure out whether or not anything is going to happen. senators are making their way sessionwashington for a this afternoon where there is really no agenda yet other than the mitch mcconnell, the majority leader apparently going take up or at least entertain with -- what the house sent over with the additional border security and money for the wall and disaster relief, but it is not clear as of this moment whether or not that is simply going to be a vote to reject the house proposal.

it is entirely possible the senate ultimately votes to say no to what the house has done. we're not sure that is going to happen. senators had left town already. they thought things were under control. a democrat from hawaii should have just landed barring flight delays. i haven't checked, out at washington dulles international airport after having gotten on a redeye back from honolulu after basically haven't -- having just landed. host: let me ask you about the senator's tweet because when he met with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, he said he would take ownership of a shutdown. the president is saying if democrats don't vote, it will be a democrat shutdown. guest: the first rule of a

shutdown politics is it is never supposed to be your fault. president trump seems to have made this miscalculation when he had the meeting at the white house with speaker designate pelosi and leader schumer because of his lying in which he was talking about -- his line in which he was talking about being proud to shut the government down for border security. now i think they are trying to come up with a way to get people to believe, at least, that it would be the democrats responsible for the departments shutting their doors or reducing service because of the shutdown. i am not sure that is going to work. host: we are talking with niels lesniewski. he covers the senate for cq's

rollcall. one popular solution, a nuclear option. explain this. guest: i am sort of expecting by the time we get off the phone here, that president trump may well be tweeting this as well. this is the suggestion from senator jane's and -- sen. daines: often from house conservatives. a simple majority of senators move to effectively change the rules of the chamber so that you don't need 60 votes to break a filibuster on legislation. senate hasthe already done this with the calendar. we saw this deployed ahead of the supreme court confirmation of neil gorsuch. the first of president trump's supreme court nominees as well.

this seems entirely unlikely. there has been very little appetite for this. democrats don't like the idea either and it seems like it would be a difficult time for someone to want to do it strategically with the fact we are looking at nancy pelosi and the house democrats coming back in control of the agenda january 3. host: bottom line, what do you expect to happen this afternoon? if i were -- guest: trying to figure out what is going to happen based on the way that had -- this has gone in the past and this was to some extent before president trump was in office -- i would expect the senate would actually vote on a motion that is effectively to return the papers to the house. the plan the house republicans

lacks thursday evening support in the senate and therefore, there could be a vote simply to table the house amendments and kill them off and basically tell the house, with something else and we will talk to you again -- come up with something else and we will talk to you again. i don't know that that is going to happen given the way the situation is now with senate republicans and president trump. host: a day to follow the development that rollcall.com. niels lesniewski, i suspect we will check with you often within the next few hours. host: but get to some of your tweets and your phone calls. reuters saying president trump is ending the year in chaos. tax cuts did not keep the market up and mattis runs away from trump as if you were a disease.

he opens us up for a major terrorist attack and kills 100,000 syrian refugees. mike freeman says the mattis straw with thee subservient gop congress, their fear of the 32% kept them silent. says i tweet from carol --'t see chaos, folks want most would never know the difference except for many about -- workers who get a paid vacation from it. let's go to marvin in philadelphia, democrats line, good morning. guest: -- caller: i am listening to a lot going on right now and this government is not running logically. it is running irresponsible he is firing too many people and not getting a chance to let the workforce work itself.

you cannot keep picking people up and letting people down. mattis was a good general and he was able to give them a logical response to our defense as well as the wall, he said mexico was going to pay for it. now we have to fork over the money. i was a democrat for a long time . right now, i am not a democrat or a republican, i am moment -- i am an american. host: john joining us from new york. mexico they already said was going to pay for this. mexico is going to pay for it if people would listen. they are paying it in the tax deal coming back from the big deal they made. the house or whatever -- make appropriations for it. people need to listen -- they don't listen. a story from the

wall street journal, exit of mattis, last of trump's generals removes the voice of admiration. he called them "my generals. president trump a newly installed commander in chief with no military experience. handpicked the group of decorated military men to guide his administration through a challenging landscape. kelly, h.r.john mcmaster became not only advisors, but viewed by many as the voices of experience in a white house known for turbulence. all three men have left or are parting ways with the president. the departure reflects mr. trump is less inclined to heed cautionary advice advisors sometimes offered. this story available this morning online. our nextlle, florida, caller, bill, you are next. republican line. caller: yes. i am sitting here and probably wearing my red make great

america again hat and i am proud to say the president should shut that damn things down. host: shut what down, the government? caller: shut the government down. host: why? caller: if they find out terrorists came across the border and blew up another skyscraper with a million people dead, let the democrats eat that. host: the president said he would take ownership of a shutdown. that is what he told the country last week. caller: let's true. let's own it. if democrats don't want to sponsor that wall, let them eat the people that will be dead the next time there is a terrorist attack. host: we will go to randall next in texas, on the democrats line. caller: i have about 100 miles southwest of dallas and we have illegal aliens in my county in texas 400 miles from the dell

rio border milking cows around the clock. that scary what they are trying to build up. we will work on stopping mexicans and drugs. we caught them the other day smuggling drugs in our railroad cars in new york, they were busted. what i would like for republicans to work on, the terrorist murder and hate crimes, 76% were white nationalists, not terrorists. the thing i wanted to say most about washington, d.c. and the beltway, i get up every morning and i feel like i am at one of your cocktail parties. i don't hear any news about what the president did -- putting three of his friends in charge of the veterans and stopping and paying the g.i. bill we started for the iraqi returning veterans. some of those guys losing

apartments or houses and then republicans tell us they we will not make up that back i and another cause is -- go to the local hospital -- 76% of that money -- we started that program, the veterans did, years ago trying to get it done and finally got it across the goal line in 2019. that is not trump. here is the deal. the liar is ok to be your president as commander in chief, please don't have your son join our military. host: robert with this tweet, why do we have nonessential government workers? shut it down and say goodbye to the nonessential government workers. the stock market at a low for the year. stocks fall sharply as the nasdaq closes near a bear market

. the worst year since 2008 during the height of the financial crisis. mac from north carolina, republican line. welcome to the conversation. caller: how are you all doing? host: fine. caller: we are building fiber anda lot of the electrical and stuff like that. out here on the job, we have a lot of people that crossed over the border. we have people that crossed over the border from statesville all the way to charlotte. jobs other people in this could have. a lot of these people are good working -- hard-working family men. the last 50 i have contacted that have been on my job site have left their families. to 6 kids andh up

over here for years and years. they may send a little bit of money back, they may not. the last we had on the job was smoking drugs and we caught them drinking beer on the job and they want more money than anybody else. it's like when they get over here, they are entitled. one day they looked at me and said they were not going to work in the rain. i said what do you mean? we work in the rain every day. host: i want to share another headline from jim -- mattis was a great warrior, but a defense secretary must support the president's policies. in just a moment, we will talk to leo shane. house and senate democratic leaders, nancy pelosi soon to be speaker of the house in january and chuck schumer. [video clip] >> the president is doing

everything he can to shut the government down. the questionsk why, does he not believe in government or care about the american people? doesn't he know the economy is uncertain? hasn't he followed the stock market he likes to brag about sometimes? there is something wrong with this picture, especially in the holiday season. if they make the bill bad enough, they are able to get maybe enough votes on the house side. for a shameful bill that is unworthy of this house of representatives and certainly of the american people. i yield to the distinguished leader from the senate. >> today's events have made one thing clear, president trump is plunging the country into chaos. the stock market is down another 500 points.

downal mattis is stepping and we know he has real disagreements with the president on syria and the wall and now president trump is throwing a temper tantrum in creating fee trump shut down of the government. past 6:30e comments last night on capitol hill. the senate scheduled to come in this afternoon and the president tweeting again on the debate over spending and the border wall. he said "democrats are trying to belittle the concept of a wall, calling it old-fashioned. the fact is there is nothing else that will work and that has been true for thousands of years. it's like the wheel, there is nothing better. senator mitch mcconnell should fight for the border wall. that border wall is only effective in conjunction with a border wall. democrats are lying when they say they don't work in israel.

the wall is 99.9% successful. hundreds of billions of dollars saved. we will get back to your calls in a moment. mattis resigns after trump's syria pullout. he did so in a letter released late in the afternoon by the retired general and now the soon-to-be former defense secretary. while the u.s. remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interest or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. i have said from the beginning that the armed forces of the united states should not be the policeman of the world. we must use all toils of american power to provide for, defense including providing effective leadership to our alliances. nato's 29 democracies demonstrated the strength in their commitment to follow alongside us -- you deserved to

have a defense secretary that shares your views. disagreeing with the president on a number of issues including syria. leo shane is writing about all of this for the military times. was this a surprise? guest: there has been rumors the defense secretary has been looking for an exit for several months. we have seen signs of strife between the white house and the pentagon. i don't think anybody expected it to happen on the eve of a shutdown. i don't think anybody expected it to be quite this acrimonious of an exit. that letter is clearly a rebuke both syriapolicies and afghanistan withdrawal, his treatment of allies. it seems to illustrate some of these real riffs we have been mattis about and for --

to leave this way sends a .hockwave through capitol hill he seems to have lost faith in how this white house has been operating and what that means for future military policy. host: reporting more from the letter released yesterday afternoon, my views on treating allies with respect and being clear eyed about maligned actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed over four decades of immersion in this issue -- these issues. we must do everything possible -- we are an order strengthened in this effort by the solidarity of our alliances because you have the right to have a secretary of defense his views are better aligned with years on these and other subjects. i believe it is right for me to shut down from my position. i want to go back to the word alliances. the america first policy -- is

that different than what the defense secretary has been talking about? guest: two he specifically mentions are the defeat isis alliance in syria and the middle east right now and the nato alliance in afghanistan two alliances that this week got shocking news from the white house, the u.s. is going to have major withdrawals of forces apparently without a lot of consult or agreement from the defense department. both of those seem to be direct shots at the moves by trump and a reaction to what mattis sees as the trail of what u.s. policy has been, standing with allies, if not continuing military operations, at least supporting them and given -- giving a strong message. we have seen this for the last two years with president trump, he has continually attacked nato and its value and whether or not it is something the u.s. should

be connected to. we heard from quite a few -- withdrawerts from syria goes against what military and intelligence officials say would stand up the u.s. allies. really -- as i said, a startling statement from the defense secretary as he walks away that he -- not only has trump gone in a direction he doesn't agree with, he has lost faith in where trump is headed. host: 2000 u.s. troops departing syria and 7000 reportedly leaving from afghanistan. as you look at these developments, do you have any insight into what happened in the meeting yesterday? we know the defense secretary woke up and considered resigning and met with the president in the oval office. what happened inside the oval? guest: we are getting details on that. i know this is not something the secretary came up with yesterday

. there have been rumors about this for a while and indications in retrospect within the last week that things could be moving this way and especially with the surprise announcement of the syria withdrawal a couple of days ago became clear there was a real disconnect even more so than we have seen between the pentagon and the white house. we will be getting the step-by-step of how this all went down in the days and weeks to come. the big question becomes now who can replace mattis and where does this leave a military that still has a large footprint overseas and troops deployed to the southern border? military that very much needs a strong leader and advocate in the oval office. where does this leave them for the next couple of months? secretary mattis said he would resign at the end of february to allow time for transition to the new joint chiefs chairman. we already announced general

millions will be the replacement for general dunford. several other joint chiefs are supposed to turn over next year. leaving, it is a full cabinet and full military policy of people. host: when the president announced on twitter he was going to pull 2000 troops out of syria, did he consult with his national security team or did he make that decision unilaterally? guest: that is the question proved it certainly seems like the military was surprised by this. the reports confirm senior military leaders were consulted and involved, but consulted and actually considered our two different things. this appears to be a decision secretary mattis and other top defense leaders were not on board with. just a few weeks ago, we had the incoming commander of u.s. central command say he did not

see a path for withdrawing u.s. troops soon from afghanistan and if we did so, it would likely mean a collapse of friendly forces. we have heard similar comments from state department and pentagon officials. if these folks were consulted, they also were likely ignored in the final analysis. host: leo shane, reporter and deputy editor for the new york times -- military times. we thank you for being with us. guest: thank you. host: reuters saying the president is ending his year in chaos. this tweet from george saying stock market down another 500 points. what does the narcissistic lunatic do? he winds if he doesn't get money for the wall he will shut down the government, sending thousands of american workers home for the holidays without a paycheck. he will be playing golf. the president will stay in washington and not go in mar-a-lago if there is a shutdown.

array from homestead, pennsylvania. independent line. the house coming in in about 90 minutes. good morning, ray. caller: just a couple of items i wanted to talk about as far as .he trumpers the president has already said they will never see the beautiful laws he has built down -- he said they are going to get steel slabs free to the same thing every other president put on the border that have been breached 9000 times. trumper's are going to get their wall. military and pulling out of syria and iran, it is it isrump setting up -- not iran, it is iraq. it is my view that is trump setting up for what every other president does when they know they will lose an election.

it justtting up for like bush did when he pulled all the troops out of afghanistan to take them to iraq. been the president has tweeting, busy this morning, two more tweets a moment ago focused on the border wall and the .olitics in washington, d.c. it reads in part, no matter what happens today in the senate, republican house members should be proud of themselves. they flew back to washington from all parts of the world to vote for border security and the wall. not one democrat voted yes. to theoud of you paris democrats whose votes we need in the senate will probably vote against border security and a wall even though they know it is desperately needed. if democrats vote no, there will be a shutdown that allows for a very long time. if the democrats vote no, there will be a shutdown that will last for a very long time. people don't want open borders and crime. camilla, georgia.

democrats line, good morning. you have got to understand and trump and the people who follow trump, if you have two people who work closely with him and watching this president, general kelly and mattis and they abandon ship. one thing -- they don't hisrstand -- every man has policies and principles. mocked.ot you will reap what you sow. we have got to give an account for every out of work -- i just turned 68 and i am trying to do what is right in order to love people.

you have to be the president for all people. you cannot just be the president for republicans. you have to be the president for democrats and nationalities. he has to be the president for all people. i am getting closer to that time. trump doesn't understand that. you are 72 years old. you went to the funeral of a president. your days are coming any day. you should have been humbled -- you know what, it is time for me to change and repent. he attacked you all and people. he attacked the other president. you want to cry when somebody is coming after you. from --ttis resigns chris, republican line, you are next. good morning.

caller: i don't understand what everybody's head is blowing up about over this general leaving. how many generals did obama lose because he would not listen to anybody? the country has been going on and on with all these career politicians for a couple centuries now. all of them do exactly the same thing, get somebody else that will do everything different, pull the people out of syria and afghanistan and get this over with. everybody is losing their mind over it. it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. they want all the central americans up here and our military around the world. none of it is making any sense. what trump is doing is right. he needs to shut down the government and all the nonessential workers should not even go back to work. they ought to be standing in the

unemployment line with all the other people that lost their jobs. host: mattis quits in a split with president trump and at the white house last night on a rainy thursday evening, sarah sanders was asked about this. >> secretary mattis has served the country admirably for over four decades. he served in this administration . by the time he completes his term as secretary of defense for two years -- he and the president have a good relationship. sometimes they disagree. the president always listens to members of his national security team. at that yet he of the day, it is the president upon decision to make. while he takes all their opinions and advice into consideration. at the end of the day, it is his decision to make. >> why today? >> secretary mattis met with the president and they made the

decision. he won't leave for another couple of months. he wanted to make the decision today. host: that is from white house press secretary sarah sanders last night and this editorial from the new york times, jim mattis was right. now who will protect america? "no one wants american troops deployed in a war zone longer than necessary, that there is no indication president trump thought through the consequences of a precipitous withdrawal, allowing ices forces to regroup -- isis forces to regroup. an american withdrawal would be a gift to vladimir putin who has been working hard to supplant american influence in the region and on thursday enthusiastically welcomed does this -- the decision saying donald is right. independent line, good morning. thanks forant to say c-span and i have two points i

wanted to make, one about syria and the other about the wall. senator kaine identified in a committee hearing that the united states's occupation of syria is against u.s. law and international law. in addition to that, the area we occupy contains syria's richest oilfields, which is denying syrian government revenues from the oil fields, which can be used to rebuild towns and homes for its people and resettle some of the 5 million refugees. in my opinion, this is sort of a crime against humanity. , trump was elected by 53 million voters and for him to want $5 billion, which is a

drop in the pocket for our budget for a pile program -- pilot program to see if his wall concept works seems to be a reasonable thing to go for. and -- if wall effort mattis felt the way he did, he was right to leave breed -- to leave. host: mike saying we are going through a major war. mattis could not control this destruction of the usa. bolton and crews will get there -- that make the bombs glow. it will be our stance. jim mattis was right, who will protect america now? mr. bolton and the rest of his national security team were overruled with his withdrawal decision.

new uncertainty about america's commitment to the middle east and willingness to be a global leader and mr. trump's role as commander in chief sending conflicting orders to soldiers on the battlefield as mr. trump and his administration are doing. it could risk getting american soldiers killed or wounded for objectives their commanders already abandoned. the opinion piece from the new york times, bill joining us next from exeter new hampshire on the democrats line. caller: good morning. why do the republicans who are the majority in the house and senate -- we have been doing this for two years and i think if they were not going to be the minority in the house, why do ony give trump carte blanche everything? verbally been

reprimanded by republicans even once. what president can do all the things trump has done and is doing and probably planning to reprimanded by the leaders of his own party? if his own party would go against him, they could slow him down. they could do something. host: we will get a republican voice. tom from connecticut. good morning. caller: i am delighted president trump accepted general mattis's resignation. longs been in the slot too and lincoln fired general mcclellan, who also was -- bonded with his troops, but terribly fond of military parades and drills. it is a good sign. what the mediat

proclaims it is. solution would probably be through presidential diplomacy. kudos to president trump or it boo-hoo for democrats and the wall is an absolute necessity. i am a military veteran of the u.s. army three years. go around east asia during the vietnam war and i am thrilled general mattis is going to now have time to write his books and up here on the cable news shows. i don't know if he has a -- no one has announced what has retirement benefits will be. host: thanks for the call. from cnn, trump unleashed. mattis exit paves the way for

global chaos. patricia from florida, republican line. welcome to the conversation. caller: hello. my statement first was if they are going to let all the nonessential people go, why are they working for the government in the first place if they are nonessential? i worked for the government for 20 years. my question now is people are against the wall. ok, maybe trump should open up the borders and let them flow across. a lot of these people work at the farm jobs, burger king and mcdonald's and you don't hear -- -- iping about

very close family oriented. magazine, alanta news organization that published a letter and available at our views on treating allies with respect are also being clear i do about malign actors and strategic competitors strongly held and conformed with over four decades of immersion in these issues. yesterday, the bill signing ceremony, the farm bill the president talked about the wall and border security. [video clip] i have made my position clear, any measure that funds the government must include border security. has to. -- for political purposes, it is our solemn promise to

protect and defend the united states of america and our sacred obligation. -- no choice.se for decades, washington abandoned this commitment and allowed millions and millions of people to and are our country illegally. no one voiced or voted for a policy. ratified a policy. it was a total assault on our democracy. ourgal immigration costs nation $275 billion a year. $275 billion a year at least more than 90% of heroin comes across our southern border. heroin deaths have tripled since

2002. every week, illegal heroin costs the nation over $230 million to $289 billion. nearly $5 billion a week. host: that is from the president at a bill signing ceremony. the five-year farm bill a price tag of $867 billion. the president with more tweets. a moment ago he wrote the shutdown today of democrats do not vote for border security. and he brought up president reagan. even president reagan tried to build a border wall or fence and was unable to do so. others tried. we will get it done one way or the other. this tweet from another viewer saying trump is doing exactly what he said he would do. andou are angry about that,

angry at trump voters, take your anger out on us, not our president. on the democrats line, dale joining us from columbus, ohio. good morning, dale. caller: good morning. how are you this morning? host: fine, thank you. caller: it is really a sad thing all these high-powered people that have been in military and government for so many years -- then you have a man that has never had any government knowledge of anything and they let him come in here to be president of the united states, one of the most high-powered countries in the world and let him dominate. my question is -- and they are leaving. the sad part is if he -- when he was running to all the different lout -- rallies and states -- if he came out and said we are going to build this fantastic wall with these big doors and we

make the united states of america -- the people pay this $5 billion, i wonder what the outcome would have been. this willd have said cost $5 billion and $10 billion for taxpayers -- these republicans and these trump supporters would have had a complete different story. -- it is a complete different thing. host: thank you for the call. it is 7:45 in washington, d.c. and let's recap what will be happening today. the house passing a bill with no democratic votes, a bill that does include spending for the and $5iations process billion for the border wall past along a partyline vote with republican support. that measure goes to the u.s. senate. 60 votes currently required.

51 republican senators and the deadline to reach an agreement is midnight. we will have live coverage of the house at 9:00 eastern time. the senate coming in this afternoon. those lawmakers who left town taking this agreement was in place now coming back before christmas on what could be the precipice of a partial government shutdown. a morning of alarm, the mattis departure sends shockwaves abroad. here is more from the washington post. european leaders did not mince words. a morning of alarm in europe is how the cochair of the european council on foreign relations and the former prime minister of sweden describing the reaction to news of the defense secretary's exit. mattis is the remaining strong bond across the atlantic and the trump administration. all the others are fragile at best or broken at worst. isisefense minister said

had been reduced and not eliminated. the french government does not share the american interpretation that seems the fight in syria is over. as for the kremlin's response. -- asking about mattis has a restraining influence on trump. guessing who will restrain president trump from doing what is the work of political scientists and a rather frank was task -- thankless task. independent line, good morning. caller: yes. what our country needs is fairness. here is an example. if a lady -- man and woman do the same job, they should get the same pay. that has been going on for years, which was unfairness. also, there need to be term

limits in our country. a legal persons should not come to this country because our country is overpopulated. also, our u.s. congress needs to learn to compromise so work will get done. thank you, sir. is next, waldorf, maryland. what is on your mind this morning? caller: i am a little nervous. i will be as quick as possible. i wanted to know about the scathing letter mattis wrote toward trump basically saying he would side with tyrants -- i forget the particular wording of it. u.s. allies -- throws u.s. allies under the bus. as far as -- there was one guy that called and said lincoln -- he actually

fired them because they were in active and did not want to fight northern virginia. , ifar as the border wall don't necessarily think we need it. we have protection at the border without a wall. i am a little confused this morning. host: thanks for the call. this is inside the washington post in a letter jim mattis wrote to president, he underscored the need to treat allies with respect. he signs it james n mattis. this from lizzie saying that is has always been used to giving the orders. he cannot adapt to taking orders rather than giving them. he needed to leave.

another tweet from karen. remember when right-wingers screamed in horror when obama announced withdrawing troops from iraq? it is wrong to announce that sort of thing ahead of time, isn't that what he did regarding syria? hello? on the republican line from south carolina, gary. caller: i want to remind everybody we pay $270 million a year -- a billion dollars a year for illegals to be in our country and that is a whole lot of money and i don't think trump is asking for a whole lot of money to build the wall and i think the ball needs to be built to protect our citizens. i think a lot of these people in the white house need to find a because it is all about them and not the american people. host: where did you get that number? caller: that is what is on the news. host: thanks for the call. devon from connecticut, independent line. caller: good morning and merry

christmas to everybody. the republicans and trump had two years to fix this problem. put the bill on to protect the mueller investigation. give him money for the border and let's have a good holiday. host: this is the headline from politico.com. is the house and senate on a collision course as a shutdown nears? spendingroval of a bill significantly raises the likelihood of a government shutdown this weekend. jersey.manchester, new democrats line, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to talk about the wall a little bit because the immigrantsesult of coming over here. the is from an article in smithsonian magazine. i don't think i should mention

the author. in october 2016 and it talks american corporations are using mexicans as slaves to hour shifts,9.5 and average pay of 6 to 8 hours a day. not a living wage by any means. some are paid a little over four dollars a day and this is a result of nafta because all american businesses down there are using them as slaves. some of the american companies -- slave labor wages honeywell, mitsubishi, goodrich, gulfstream -- coca-cola. mexicans supposed to

make a living? that is why they come to america because they are being driven out of their land by the corporations and now we are paying also for general motors to move overseas and we are paying -- the cost of moving -- pieces of machinery and so forth. host: thank you for the call. the syrian decision leaves putin with a winning hand and trump's -- a pullout this is crazy, i cannot believe we are playing this reality show president game. more from sarah sanders last night on a rainy thursday evening as she spoke to reporters about the resignation of jim mattis and where we are today on the eve of a possible partial government shutdown.

[video clip] >> democrats are playing political games and they have to decide whether or not they hate president more than they love this country and they have to decide they will fulfill the duty they took when they took the aoth of office -- oath of office. the president will uphold his constitutional duty to protect the american people. marc ginsberg, former ambassador to morocco an expert on the middle east will join us at the top of the hour to talk about syria, afghanistan, and the middle east. lynn from high point, north carolina, good morning. caller: good morning. mexicoone, trump ran on paying for the wall. what happened there? we now have to pay for it? we are not mexicans. why do we have to pay for it?

democrats do want border security. open keeps saying we want borders. not one democrat has asked for "are's. we want technology and more guards. we already have a wall. you can always climb under a wall or date over a wall. number three, if people like trump would stop hiring these illegals, they would stop coming over here. -- presses the gop against the deadline and jim mattis rifts a resignation amid with the president. shockwaves follow the syria announcement. host: roger is next from tennessee. it. how are you, sir? caller: fine, how are you. host: we are fine, thank you. what do you think of all of this? caller: i don't understand why

everybody is having a fit for trump trying to get $5 million to build a wall when they give obama $130 billion to send to afghanistan. host: we will go to connie next. good morning from brooklyn, wisconsin. how are you? caller: good. -- in mytle bit of area. we, as americans -- it's not trump, but us americans have been put into chaos. we are very concerned and i am speaking for a lot of people. we are very concerned for the direction all of this is going. be extremelyhad to upsetting for him to quit. he has had years of experience and experience sometimes

overrides a lot of things and he is right in his judgment. also, there are other things going on in the world. he has to consider a lot of things going on and i, for one, think mattis -- i am sorry to hear him quit. he had a right to because he said he was not being listened to. he wasn't taken serious and everybody is saying -- one person said, he has been around for four decades, we need somebody new. experience, that is why electedt eisenhower was because we were going through a war and they wanted someone with experience. host: stock futures are down according to cnbc. spooked markets sink deep into red. stephen on the democrats line from nevada. good morning. caller: good morning.

i pretty much agree with the last two democratic caller's that was his- promise, mexico was going to pay for it. i am not a lover of trump and his policies and especially the office.olds himself in but, if the wall is needed and they truly believe it is needed, they need to have mexico paying for it. host: this is the headline from the washington times. the u.s. to send migrants back to wait in washington. that from a hearing we covered yesterday. some sharp questions on a number of fronts aimed at kiersten nielsen, the secretary of homeland security. the full hearing on our website at c-span.org. here is part of for opening statement. [video clip]

>> i am announcing historic members -- measures to bring the situation under control. the united states will begin the process of invoking section 235 b2c of the immigration and nationality act. individuals arriving in or entering the united states from mexico illegally or without proper documentation may be returned to mexico for the duration of the immigration proceedings. they will not be able to disappear into the united states . they will have to wait for approval to come into the united states. if they are granted asylum, they will be welcomed into america. if they are not, they will be removed to their home country. we will undertake these steps consistent with our domestic and legal international obligations including our humanitarian commitments. we have notified the mexican government of our intended actions. mexico has informed us they will

commit to implement essential measures on their side of the border to facilitate this process by providing humanitarian assistance. they have an ounce effect of migrants who receive humanitarian visas to stay on mexican soil and they will be given the applied -- the opportunity to apply for work and other protections. in the coming days, we will discuss ways to and sure the of limitation of our decision in a way that is transparent, effective, and ensures a safe and orderly flow. as announced by the united states and mexico in december 2018, both countries are committed to work on a copperheads a plan to reduce migration across the region -- comprehensive plan to reduce migration across the region. i have had meetings with leaders from the northern triangle, private sector executives, and put forth proposals to address the root causes of illegal migration. we look forward to working with our we

look forward to working with our mexican partners. i cannot overstate the significance of these developments. we are taking lawful unilateral action to stop illegal entry now. mexico is taking its own appropriate actions in response, and our two countries have committed to a major original plan to solve this crisis. host: that policy announcement by the secretary of homeland security. there has been speculation whether she will stay in the job based on some this agreements she's had with the president, although publicly she has said she will remain in the job. that hearing yesterday before the house judiciary committee. robert is joining us from missouri. reuters saying the president is ending the year and chaos. what do you think? caller: there's no question about it, he's not doing the job he said he was going to do. what he does, and i've been on this for quite a while, he says this and that and makes all

these promises, and then when he breaks the promise he leaves it up to the other people, the ones that are following him like we ,ear every morning on c-span they have to make up the excuse for him because he never brings it up again. if he was really what he says he is, he would start all of his rallies off with who's going to pay for that wall, and the refrain would come in, mexico. he doesn't do that. he lets them make excuses for him. and he reminds me of a two-year-old brat. host: thank you for the call. this is from skeet. " we want to build the wall now. mexico will pay one way or another."

caller: what would the technology actually do? is it going to be more of an alert system to let them know where we are? do we just pick them up, let them in so they claim asylum? so is it just a rest stop for them on the way and? the wall will divert them to points of entry, but is the technology going to pinpoint them and pick them up to thing asylum? thank you for the call. joe is next from new jersey, republican line. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. my comment is this. the president took our allies to task for not meeting their obligations for funding their own defense. they were supposed to spend a certain amount of money, a forain percentage of gnp

their own defense, and they did not meet their obligation. commenting andre criticizing the president for pulling out our troops. i would love to see how many of our allies are going to send their own troops in to fill the vacuum left by our troops being removed. host: thanks for the call. this is a tweet from the president a short while ago. "shut down today if democrats do not vote for border security." the headline from the new york christmasl i want for . trump, give me a barrier or i will shut down the government." "trump in the year in chaos. trump's presidency has lurched from crisis to crisis, but thursday was a landmark day for chaos that appeared to test the resolve of even senior republican backers in washington. friendse of trump's

showing deepening worry about where his administration is heading at the halfway point of his term. mitch majority leader mcconnell expressing grave reservations about why matus "i am particularly distressed that he is resigning due to sharp differences with on worlddent leadership." on the line in michigan, good morning. caller: i just have a simple comment. americane greatest presidents the republicans always tell us about, ronald reagan, told mikhail gorbachev of russia, "tear down this wall." why are we building another one? thank you. host: this is a headline ahead of the shutdown.

"nuclear option needed to build trump's border wall." already the nuclear option had been invoked first by senator harry reid, and later by republican leader mitch mcconnell, on judicial nominees, including the nomination and vote on neil gorsuch. a moments ago the president mitch,ng on that topic, " use the nuclear option and get it done! "ur country is counting on you. this is, i think, his 12th tweet within the last hour. we are reading them as they come in. peggy is joining us from fresno, california. caller: good morning, and merry christmas. i have two comments. the first, please mention the gofundme page for the wall that has over $10 million in three

days. i think we need it. it's required. whether they use it for whatever technology, a wall is needed. this has to stop. mattis, i, general agree. we want out of everybody else's fights. this is our money to go to homeless. look at san francisco, california. it needs to be done. somebody is finally standing up and saying, look, protect yourselves. funder ofbe the money every country out there. protect yourselves. leave -- wants to look, everyone hated warmongers, but now they love them. how long do we fight before we

say a war is not winnable? host: the count of between tweets this morning, we are up to nine in the last hour or so. this is from earlier by president trump. "the democrats whose votes we need in the senate will probably vote against border security and the wall even know they know it is desperately needed. vote no, there will be a shutdown that will last for a very long time. people don't want open borders and crime!" from "the new york times" editorial board, "general mattis was right. who will protect america now?" now on the line from maine. i believe the border needed and we need to have allies instead of an authoritarian leader enriching himself and not doing anything for his own people.

that is the bottom line. you're heading for a dictatorship. that is not the way to go. that's my comment. ohio,let's go to ken from republican line. good morning. caller: hi. ohio, in painesville, probably one of the biggest sanctuary cities in this state. i watch illegals pour in by the hundreds here. we have certain families that own hundreds of homes to provide shelter and housing. it is an organized operation that needs to be investigated under rico statutes. it is just utterly unbelievable. primaryident's obligation to the american citizens is to protect the citizens, and we have people pouring across the border that we have no idea who they are.

we need border security. we don't need to talk about the wall. but border security. it can come in many forms. but we definitely need it. president trump in his first two years has done more for the american people -- the american people -- than any president in past history. -- he has done -- he was given $110 billion to i ron -- to iran in cash. we can't put $5 billion on our own backdoor? host: tweet number 10. daines forsteve being able to go to the so-called nuclear option in order to win on desperately needed border security. have my total support." that will be key to watch in the senate if that does take place. that would be another significant change for the u.s. senate. theas first and limited by democratic leader and expanded

by the current republican leader. the senate is in this afternoon as lawmakers scrambled to get back to washington. the house will gavel in and about 50 minutes. virginia is next from maryland, republican line. good morning. caller: demonic. i amp up -- good morning. i apologize if somebody else has made this comment. when reagan said care down this wall, he was calling to bring down the wall within a country. our wall is designed to protect our country, to make us sovereign. go trump. thank you. host: thank you. vin is next in connecticut, democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. the previous caller just made most of my point, but for the fella from michigan who thought he was making a really knockout punch, snarky point by quoting ronald reagan, that wall was

built to keep people in the country, not to keep people from outside the country from going into east germany, where nobody wanted to be. thank you. host: thank you for the call. marion from indiana is next. you are on the air. go head. if we had military countries they would be at locking those announcers up. remember a democrat from indiana on a bill, he voted to stop sending arms and ammunition to our troops in order to bring the troops home. the bill didn't pass, thank fully. that finishes my comments. host: thanks to you and all of your calls him a comments and tweets. we will be following all of this throughout the day here on c-span. the letter by jim matutis is available on www.c-span.org. what's next for u.s. troops in

syria and afghanistan? we will get the thoughts from marc ginsberg. we are back in a moment. ♪ announcer: this weekend on atrican history tv, saturday 8:00 p.m. eastern on "lectures in history," catholic university professor and former cia historian on national intelligence operations during president kennedy's administration. >> i want to focus on the two biggest intelligence subjects of the kennedy administration, which often are the two major historical episodes that people remember from this period. the bay of pigs fiasco and the cuban missile crisis. so we had a fiasco and a crisis. they are both big problems. what they have in common is,

obviously, cuba. announcer: sunday at six ago on "american artifacts," a look inside the national portrait gallery on its 50th anniversary. >> the title handed to us by congress was to collect of the men and women who have made a national impact on history and culture, and i use the word impact advisedly because, of course, we had people like john wilkes booth, who assassinated president lincoln, and the notorious gangster al capone. there's no moral test in the portrait gallery. we are not a hall of heroes. we are a place to reflect on those people who have changed the national conversation and got us to where we are today. announcer: watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. ♪ announcer: next week, join "washington journal" for authors

week, featuring live one-hour segments each morning with a new author, starting sunday with author crystal fleming with her book, "how to be less stupid about race." monday, "the once and future worker." hell do youat the have to lose? rights."ar on civil wednesday, "the case against impeaching trump." whysday, "squeezed: families can't afford america." howay, "sex matters: americans lost touch with love and common sense." saturday, "the view from flyover country." join us for authors week starting sunday on "washington journal."

announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome back marc ginsberg, who served as a u.s. ambassador to morocco, former advisor to president what?, and now works with in newa nonprofit based york that advocates the removal of extremist content from social media and provides pretty sophisticated software to intelligence agencies and other entities around the world to help them identify and expedite the removal of terrorist and extremist content. host: let's get to the headline from the new york -- from "the new york times." i want to share with you part of the letter he wrote to the president after the overall office meeting that had -- the oval office meeting. "we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively

without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. like you, i said from the beginning that the armed forces of the united states should not be the policeman of the world. instead we must use all tools of american power to provide for the common defense, including effective leadership to our alliances. to's 29 democracies demonstrated their commitment following the 9/11 attacks on america." what is he saying? guest: it really seems to me that he is deeply disappointed at the breakdown of the transatlantic alliance and the inability of the united states to show adequate leadership against the challenges that the pentagon and its national isense assessment determined both china and russia, not necessarily in that order. more importantly, i think what secretary mattis is saying is oft these alliances, because

the lack of respect the president is demonstrating towards our allies, they are unwilling to join the united states in what are essentially these major challenges in an effective way, even though i'm sure secretary mattis agrees with the president that having our allies provide a sufficient mandatory country we should nato is essential. but just money is never the deal really, here. it is always about what they are doing for us to combat al qaeda in the middle east, what are they doing afghanistan, what are we doing to join forces against china, what are we doing to help stem the tide of to -- of putin's imperialism around the world. host: the headline from "the washington post," " a morning of tis's departure sends shockwaves around the world. in europeof of alarm

is how the cochair of the european council on foreign relations described the reaction to the news of the defense secretary's exit. twitter, isrote on the remaining strong bond across the atlantic with the european nations. isis has been reduced, not eliminated. the french government does not share the interpretation that sees the fight as over. in our times of guessing who restraint president trump from doing what is the work of political scientists and a rather thankless task." tost: it is quite amazing listen to the breach of diplomatic the quorum i our allies about this president. you are republican, democratic, or independent, you've got to make a decision

whether or not the united states stands for global leadership and whether or not in the end we can have our cake and eat it. it takes a really asked area stance -- a really dexterous dance on the part of a president to balance the desires of the american people but maintain america's interests abroad. in my judgment, this president seems to be failing on both counts. host: we've been talking about syria. the other headline this morning, there had been talk yesterday, first by cnn of troop withdrawal from afghanistan. reuters reporting that could be more than 5000 troops being pulled out. guest: this is precisely what the american people have to make a decision on, whether the president is conducting national security policy adequately or just waking up in the middle of the night and deciding he's going to do this despite the advice and counsel of his military advisers.

this has been our longest war, 15 years since 9/11. the taliban have been resurgent. they provide what essentially is protection for some of the most important lethal terrorist organizations that are directing their efforts against the united states. we cannot seem to be able to win a conflict with just u.s. military troops alone. the afghani military is under the rest. our allies have certainly -- under directs. our -- under duress. our allies have certainly contributed. there are important peace negotiations the trump administration had launched. when the taliban wake up as they did this morning and saw that the president has decided to he's evenroops before able to prove that the peace negotiations could bear fruit, how do you imagine their military commanders are going to react to that? host: the president was very critical of president obama when

he telegraphed military operations but didn't the president just do the same thing? host: this president always says his predecessors have done everything wrong that he is now thisting -- guest: president always says his predecessors have done everything wrong that he is now repeating. host: russian president vladimir, in his year and news conference, you will hear his answer for a translator. >> yesterday president donald trump announced the withdrawal of american troops from syria. announced that, in his opinion, the united states defeated isis in syria. he made that very clear. what is your position with respect to his statement of the withdrawal of american troops from syria and his statement regarding the defeat of isis by the united states? secondly, do you have concerns that the american troops will remain in some form? there's been much discussion,

for example, around the essentially using contractors where the united states has either acted militarily or might want to be acting militarily, but in a more discreet way. thank you very much. putin: as for defeating isis, i do generally agree with the president of the united states. some majorved advances when it comes to defeating the terrorists, and we have struck major blows on terrorists in syria. there is a danger that those terrorist groups might now infiltrating the neighboring regions, for example, afghanistan and other countries. countries, other example, the countries of origin. this poses a great risk for all of us, including russia and the

u.s., asian countries and central asian countries. we are aware of that, and we know about that. yes, donald trump is right about that. withdrawal of american forces, i'm not sure about what that is. the american forces have been present in afghanistan for some 17 years, and every year they talk about withdrawing their forces from afghanistan. but they are still present there. that is my second point. my third point, we do not see any signs of the american withdrawal from syria, but we , and we it is possible are now on the track of political settlement. aw we want to form constitutional committee in syria. host: that news conference and those comments by russian president vladimir putin. marc ginsberg, this is the headline from "the washington post."

"the syrian position leaves putin with a winning hand." trump is making assad great again. maga. what exactly is the role of the american military in syria? i've always advocated we should not have boots on the ground unless it is for one reason and one reason only, and that is to combat and complete the job against isis. the president's declaration to withdraw troops from syria, in my judgment, is totally premature. that's why i'm sure that my views are shared by most of the people on the ground in syria, as well as in the pentagon. the fact of the matter is it is funny to watch putin to discuss this role against isis and terrorism. it was his cronies that launched a military offensive against u.s. troops in syria instead of

fighting terrorism. they have been supporting the number one terrorist in syria, bashar al-assad. host: let's get your phone calls. fred is first up from st. paul, minnesota. go ahead. [inaudible] host: are you with us? we will go on to joe in eastpointe, michigan. caller: good morning. got right to the chase. excuse me. i think the least of trump's worries about august of next year will be pulling troops. i think he will be out of office, having cut a deal, a plea to keep his kids out of jail, to keep himself out of jail. this man is rotten to the core. i'm 83 years old. i remember a lot of bad things, and many good things in this country. trump is the worst thing that could've ever happened. he's ignorant. he knows nothing of history. he cares nothing of history.

he is going to be gone when the democrats get in and begin to open investigations into his mafioso regime. and i will be very happy when they do. it's too bad the founding fathers didn't make it a little easier to rid ourselves of a cancer in the white house. thank you. host: thank you. guest: i don't want to get into the domestic politics here. as you know, my area is foreign policy. i want to say southern that perhaps would surprise people. the president, when he came into office, was essentially unshackled the military to do what was necessary against isis in syria, which i commanded him on. as soon as the battle begun to on, in fighting terrorism, you are not just fighting the battlefield fight. you also have to make sure you can hold the territory and prevent insurgents and terrorists from returning. the president then did the worst possible thing. he prevented the pentagon's

request for additional funding for stabilization. that is coming to provide civilian protection against the terrorists that remain to help them rebuild their lives and prevent isis from returning. then effect, the price that u.s. military is paying in syria is being undermined by the very policies that the president himself declared over general objections, and that has eradicated a $200 million stabilization fund in syria. said whatael lynwood you said earlier. with us now leaving syria, that creates what? guest: it gives iran free reign, more or less, to build what is its land bridge to provide weaponry and missile technology without having to fly it in from tehran to beirut to provide the offensive weapons to hezbollah

and iran against israel. number two, it gives bashar al-assad a lease on life. number three, and most importantly -- and i think this is what bothered general mattis the most -- the battle on the ground in syria has been fought largely by syrian and kurdish forces that are our most important ally in the battle against isis. troops, thedraw our turkish military is going to move in and try to vanquish those troops because they consider them to be supporters of the outlaw terrorist organization the pkk. president erdogan of turkey is desperate to prevent the syrian kurds from creating an enclave that would appear to be an independent enclave in syria. host: our guest is marc ginsberg . our phones are open for u.s. troop withdrawal from syria, and now reports are as many as 5000 troops from afghanistan.

if you support it, (202) 748-8000, and if you oppose it, (202) 748-8001. from rochester, new york, ruth. caller: thank you. in a way i do, and in a way i don't. the united states are the only country that fought in world war ii that has been at war consecutively. first it was 1945. 1950, the korean war. trying to stop north korea from invading south korea. and wee vietnam war, didn't succeed. keeping the north vietnamese from invading south. we lost that war. then iraq. then afghanistan. then libya. now syria. we're losing all of our good men in the wars. fathers, husbands, sons. we are spending all this money. and look at congress, all the women.

how many women have won in the congress because we've lost the men? we are losing all our good men. that is what i support. we can't be in all these wars. iraq was a complete fiasco. vietnam a complete fiasco. and here we are getting involved in syria, and we are losing our good men. we've got to stop going to war for other people. what america first -- i support -- i understand why people don't like it. we can't continue to lose our men. host: thank you for the call. guest: ruth, you are absolutely right. there are plenty of people, and i disagree with my former friend who passed away senator mccain, who wanted tens of thousands of troops in syria. i believe our most important goal is to protect the american people. unfortunately, in this age of terrorism, we cannot let isis and al qaeda regrouped in yemen

or syria. they are plotting and planning. continue to instigate and insight attacks against the united states. fortunately, those attacks have been far and few between. to the credit of president obama and president trump, there hasn't been a 9/11 style attack in the united states. but in order to prevent these terrorist organizations from being able to regroup and plot these attacks, unfortunately we have got to have special forces operations tracking down their operations and trying to prevent them from regrouping. ,hat is the price unfortunately, we have to pay as americans to keep our country safe. host: clearly there is a division within the republican party. i want to share with you in a moment what lindsey graham said to reporters yesterday, but first, the president am a response that criticism, saying, "so hard to believe

lindsey graham would be against saving soldiers lives -- saving ofdiers' lives and billions dollars. why are we fighting for our enemy syria by staying in killing isis for them, russia, iran and others? time to focus on our country and bring our youth back home where they belong!" here's lindsey graham. i don't know where it came from, but it needs to be reconsidered. daysmbassador to syria two ago announced a commitment to stay until we got it right. i don't know how this decision was made. it literally came out of left field. it has rattled the world. you see north korea flexing their muscles now. they will want us to leave south korea before we do a deal. i promise you that every thing that happened in iraq is going to happen in syria unless we change course. ifan promise the president

you reevaluate this decision, you will have a lot of support across both sides of the aisle. host: ambassador ginsberg. guest: visited it horrible that the president appoints a special ,nvoy in syria, jim jefferies appointed by secretary pompeo, and three days ago he said we are going to stay in syria until we finish the job against isis, and it may be several more months, but he didn't put a timetable on it, and the next morning he wakes up and reads the paper to see the president determine unilaterally that we are going to withdraw troops. can you imagine how top diplomat seal when they are under -- how top diplomats feel when they are undercut by the commander-in-chief? host: so there was no comedic asian between the 2 -- so there was no communication between the two? guest: absolutely none at all. mattis the president had

in there, as well as pompeo, but not the chairman of the joint chiefs. can you imagine that? host: what is the president's foreign policy? how would you define it? guest: he calls it america first. bring america's troops home, stop engaging abroad. it is an isolationist foreign policy. it is something that goes back to the 1930's. the american people, he's playing off of a very small base of american people who believe that america's role in the world has been detrimental to american interests at home. there are many of us who would argue to the contrary. wewouldn't have the economy have if america didn't stand up for the values and trade systems to stand up to countries like china and russia that are determined to undermine our allies abroad. without our canadian and european allies in the middle

east talking about israel, how are we supposed to be able to benefit from a great economy if all we are doing in the end is essentially going inward instead of protecting our interests abroad? host: based on who you talk to, among our closest allies, justin trudeau, angela merkel, president macron, how do they view this moment? guest: they keep hoping that in the end, they can humor him, keep him under control. president macron of france tried to invite him to a bastille day military parade that seems to impress the president. he's had very poor relations with our closest ally, canada. how can the american people accept the fact that we have a president that insults our canadian allies? i was in canada just several

weeks ago. the canadians were beside themselves about how trump is treating them. that's unacceptable. americans should resent the fact. it is one thing the american people could say the president is just being the president. look. number onens are our trading ally in the world, and he is insulting the role they play in our security and trade relations. host: next, deb in houston, texas. you oppose this move by the president. good morning. caller: yes, good morning. could you please ask your guest, i would like to know, we've been building up to this since trump took in this unilateralism where he tweets out whatever and it is chaotic. i'm concerned that this paves the way for him to privatize the war and bring in eric prince the way the american people rejected , and take away any transparency we have. this is just one aspect of the unilateralism that we are

and the from the maga wall and isolation. you grew upf playing battleship or risk, it is little pieces and you don't just walk over and shove the board away and throw it in the closet. you have to build it up and take it down. i'm concerned the american people that say to shut the government down or do this or that, there are people's lives here. our place in the world. i really want to know about this private station because trump seems to want to merge the republican party into trump party. he seems to be just privatizing everything. he's a privateer. thank you for the opportunity. host: thank you. guest: there's plenty of people in washington, what has that has the best essentially become the swamp in washington, the has set for a couple billion dollars i can put 10,000 former seals and navy

troops and military on the ground in afghanistan. this is this guy prince you are talking about. i can tell you this at least five or six stories that i've heard of people who have been major donors to the trump campaign who has marched into the white house and said, you know what? i think we can help you put together a private army. it will only cost the united states and our allies a couple billion dollars. of course, the person putting this together is probably looking for a nice payday. putting american troops on the ground in a private army who are not under the control of the u.s. military, much less even doing that in the first place, opens up a whole can of worms. host: let's go to nancy in austin, texas. you support this move. why? caller: first of all, lindsey graham never saw a war he didn't want to wage, so everyone should have known he would be against this. second, this gentleman, what we

are hearing from him is the globalist viewpoint, which is fine. but he should announce that from the beginning. you should have somebody like rand paul on for the counter side who very much supports trump pulling our troops out of there. our troops are in 130 countries around the world. we have been building this empire for a long time. we are broke. let's look and see what this has gotten us. we don't talk about it much in the media anymore, but libya. how did that work out? we basically helped facilitate the killing of a leader there, and now who owns it? isis and al qaeda. that was quite a little thing we pulled off there. so we want to do the same thing in syria? overthrow a side -- overthrow assad? let's keep in mind the christians from iraq moved to

syria so they could live under assad. assad let them live peacefully. host: by the way, we have an open invitation for senator rand paul to join us on the program. we always welcome members of the house and senate to be with us. this is a tweet from senator paul yesterday, who did support what the president was doing in syria. "i'm happy to see a president who can declare victory and bring our troops out of a war. it's been a long time since that happened." guest: mission economist, right? let me push back on this -- mission accomplished, right? let me push back on this. for all the politics, here's the situation on the ground. there are 20,000 to 30,000 isis fighters still lurking around iraq and syria. area that the united states and our allies have still been unable to conquer in the former caliphate, there are 3000 diehard isis fighters, many of whom are the command and control operatives of isis.

we have been unable so far to get them out of this pocket in the euphrates river valley. many of those folks who are still part of isis that we have not been able to beat are plotting and planning attacks ,gainst u.s. forces in europe inciting and inspiring. when you look at the sheer situation on the ground, we have made enormous progress, but the job is not done. and for the president to declare mission accomplished, well, it is an alternative universe with alternative facts. the facts on the ground, putting , there's no way to thousand troops on the ground are going to get rid of assad, which is why i disagree with lindsey graham about our role in syria. we have one job, and that is to make sure the caliphate is completely destroyed. the american people need to know ist the president

prematurely withdrawing from syria before the job is done. host: the bbc publishing this official response from the british government, available on the bbc website. "the global coalition has made huge progress, but much remains to be done, and we must not lose sight of the threat they pose. the british government remains committed to the global coalition and campaign to deny daesh territory and ensure its enduring defeat, working alongside our regional partners in syria and beyond." what about the kurds? guest: this is one of the reasons general mattis resigned. the american people need to understand that 2000 troops in syria were special forces, as well as air force advisors to largely in airstrikes as a result of the ground offensives being waged by our allies, the syrian kurds. to american people need understand the kurds have been a people without a country for decades. the majority of them live in turkey.

the turks want to prevent them from ever organizing and creating their own state. they live in syria. they live in iraq. they live in iran. the syrian kurds have become an a in effect, and listed by the u.s. military to be the ground troops against isis. once we pull back and withdraw our troops, the turks have threatened to launch an offensive to kill the very people on the ground that protected american troops and fought the fight against isis. so i ask the american people, how do they feel about betraying our allies who did most of the fighting for us against isis? host: the headline from "the washington post," "the syria pullout alarms allies in iraq and hardens foes." joe is in oklahoma. good morning. caller: one, thank god for president trump preventing us from heading down the path of venezuela.

the guest on your program praising the socialists like , i that hetrudeau did not have the same objection never obama pulled the troops out of iraq. basically, trump is saving us as a nation from the deep state that is now being uncovered, rather than what we had is hillary and people like your guest were in control. host: thank you. guest: listen, i'm very proud of the position i take as an american who has spent my career fighting for our country and involved abroad as a diplomat, and in the intelligence area. the fact of the matter is i understand the weariness of people like yourself who feel the president is doing what is essential. whether you want to put labels on our allies, that is your prerogative. i think president macron and

prime minister trudeau represent two of the greatest allies the american people could ever have. the situation in venezuela is totally out of control, and the president said maybe we will militarily intervene in venezuela. well, why don't you smoke on that one? it was the president who suggested to militarily intervene in venezuela. host: this editorial from "the new york times," "jim mattis was right. who now will protect america? no one wants american troops deployed in a war zone longer than necessary, but there is no indication that mr. trump has thought through the consequences of a precipitous withdrawal, including allowing isis forces to regroup and create another crisis that would draw the united states back and the region. american withdrawal would also be a gift to vladimir putin on of the russian leader who has been working hard to supplant american influence in the region and who, on thursday, enthusiastically welcomed the decision by saying donald is

right." guest: here's my reaction to all of that. the president has had more than ample opportunity to leverage the art of the deal, for example, with the saudi's, particularly after the khashoggi murder. why did he not say it is not our fight against isis? you need to put troops on the ground as we withdraw. it is the responsibility of our arab allies to fight the fight against isis, not primarily american forces. we will support you, but you need to put boots on the ground. i've always argued, for decades, on this issue, that the most important thing we've failed to do is to get the arabs to fight the fight we shouldn't be fighting. the saudis will always fight till the last american. where are the troops? where are they fighting the fight they should fight? i believe the president lost a major opportunity in this saudi crisis to have said to the king of saudi arabia, you want to get

mohammad binor the salman, the prince? then you need to put troops on the ground to fight the fight against isis. he has no idea when it comes to foreign policy. host: also the withdrawal of as many as 5000 troops from afghanistan. jay is joining us from michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. first off, i want to say my son is a green beret right now, and i think he is probably in afghanistan. i'm not sure. he don't really tell me. after listening to lindsey graham say what he set about he doesn't understand what trump is doing these type of things, i've got a kind of cynical idea about it. trump is doing all of this to distract from his legal problems and his treason. that's what he's become. he's a treasonous president to the people of this country. it drives me nuts.

ignorance is not a virtue. trump is incompetent and he thinks he's an emperor. i think he's demented. i think there's something wrong with him. if it isn't just due to his criminal ideas about how to run an organization, it has to be dementia. so he's other a criminal, or he's crazy. have a good day. host: thank you for the call. i want to go back to another issue because there have been reports on another front that the president had been in touch with turkish president erdogan before announcing his decision on syria. explain the significance of that. guest: here's the back story on that. president erdogan has instructed turkish troops to launch an offensive in northeast syria to take on the syrian kurdish forces that have been supporting american troops and stabilizing that area against isis. he is determined on behalf of

effect,try to, in eradicate these syrian kurdish forces that have been supported and trained by the united states. he's threatened over the last several years to launch these offensives. we almost got to the point where u.s. military was going to have to fight turkish forces, our nato ally, to defend these syrian kurds fighting the battle against isis. probably what happened on the phone call is erdogan said to the president, i'm going to move no matter what against the syrian kurds, and american troops get harmed, so be it. and the president said maybe this is the time to fulfill my commitment to get american troops out of syria, so the president blinked. that's exactly what i think happened. host: let's go to terry from minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. guy. you're a funny two years trump has had, and is plenty of time to solve the problem.

people in your thought process has had 20 years, lost trillions of dollars in money, lost u.s. soldiers' lives, and where does it end? what are you concerned about? diplomats and the french, and how they feel. if they feel like that, they can increase their debt. step all the way and. i feel there's no reason after 20 years for people with your thought process who are supposed to be so smart, but yet have failed to end any of the wars or solve any of the problems, so i think maybe you should step back and look and say maybe my way of thinking has been a complete failure, and i should move on. thank you. guest: well, that's your opinion. i don't necessarily agree with it. you tend to think the united states is the only country that has ever been engaged in an effort to fight isis and al qaeda. do you think the canadians have not fought on our behalf? the french? do you think they would have joined forces with us if we had a president that was determined

to insult them and denigrate the contribution? the you think in the end, nato what have played the role that it played had it not been for the leadership of good presidents, whether it be obama or bush or even president clinton? you can't have it both ways. you can't have the united states safe and protected and not have allies supporting us. but if you think in the end, the united states can just willy-nilly return home and turn its back and pretend that world war i, world war ii didn't happen, well, the fact of the matter is say the same thing about north korea. based on your reasoning, we should just pull troops out of south korea and let kim jong-un have his way. the president declared victory in north korea. he said north korea is going to denuclearize. there isn't one intelligence agency in the united states, not

one person who is familiar with north korea, that would agree the president was correct, and at the, once again, and anti-ghost on the part of donald trump when it comes to a conflict he's been unable to -- once again, an empty boast on the part of donald trump when it comes to a conflict he's been unable to resolve. the president makes the announcement, but the american people don't really understand what exactly the u.s. military is still facing on the ground in syria when it comes to isis. the president woke up in the middle of the night. it was one of his nocturnal foreign-policy decisions. no consultation, announces he's going to withdraw. the american military are still trying to finish the job against isis. it's like saying i want to build this building, but i don't want to put the roof on it. that's what donald trump just did. he wants to slap his name and declare victory, but the roof is going to start leaking as soon

as he pulls the troops out. host: let's go to anna from texas. good morning to you. caller: thank you mr. ginsberg. in 2005 i lost my nephew in iraq. his fiancee, they have a son. he is hysterical now. she is army intelligence out of the pentagon. i have another niece who is a reservist. she served in afghanistan. when i hear these people call, they don't know what it feels like to lose relatives. by 25-year-old nephew is a gold star recipient. he fought in iraq. he saved a lot of lives. he said all they did was protect these blackwater people who would come in, rape, start crimes, tell them they are not making enough money, and i hear these people calling in talking

about something they don't even know. there are lives out here that are being lost. do you think putin is just going to lie down? when general patton was fired for saying we have kicked germany's butt, we need to go ahead and kick russia's butt because they will rise up again, and then i hear these people call-in. it is not a good day for america. thank you so much, and the giver common on the air today because we have a lot of nuts in this country that don't know what's going on. host: they keep or your call, and of course we are very sorry about your loss in the service of your family members. to, if i may, it just brings back the thought. one of the things see her do in in myd -- things seared

mind, i went to iraq on behalf of fox news to find out how bad the war was into a house and eight -- in 2008. there were body bags of young kids who had lost their lives in iraq. no one cared whether they were democrat or republican. we've made some terrible mistakes and foreign-policy. the invasion of iraq was a terrible error. the battle against isis and al qaeda will never be won.it is the score just the 20th and 21st century . the attack in france just a few days ago in the market incited and inspired by isis. if the american people knew how many attacks could have occurred in the united states this year by isis inspired lone wolves, they would be shocked. our job is to continue to protect them. host: ambassador marc ginsberg, thank you for being with us. want to share with you some news from the president, this tweet.

"mitch, use the nuclear option and get it done. our country is counting on you." the house passed a measure that includes $5 billion for the border wall. white house press secretary sarah sanders said this. >> the president said on twitter that this would last for a long time. what does he mean by that? how long? he said mitch mcconnell needs to fight harder. does the president have a problem with mitch mcconnell's willingness to fight on this issue? sanders: he wants them to be aggressive on this front. he would love to see him use a 51 filibuster. that is something he's pushed senator mcconnell on in the past if necessary. the president wants border security, and he's not going to back down on this fight. host: that is from the white house press secretary a short while ago. joining us once again this morning is new this was key -- is neil. since we last spoke a

couple of hours ago, we've had those developments commanded president now really pushing mitch mcconnell to effectively change the role -- the rules of the senate using a simple majority vote to set a new president -- a new president that you would only need a 50 plus one vote to limit debate and break off potential filibusters. for frequent c-span viewers come of the cloture votes that are currently 60 votes on the legislative calendar, this isn't exactly surprising. trump has been pushing o'connell basically since the start of the administration, probably, but there's been no appetite for it on the part of the senate, particularly with democrats about to take control of the house on generate were

third. there's no reason to expect that mcconnell and the senate republicans are going to have ,ny appetite for it this time so we might be heading toward a bit of a protracted partial shutdown here. explain the significance, if you could, if the nuclear option would mean for the senate as an institution. guest: if it were to happen, you would basically have the senate turning more like the house than it has already become in recent years. basically, if the majority leader can muster the conference , the majority conference to unity or at least relative unity, depending on the numbers, they could basically ran through anything that they wanted, particularly anything that was passed if they had a matching counterpart in the

house. over the past two years, it would have been a whole lot easier, presumably, for the proposals of the house republicans that they passed that went nowhere in the senate to advance in the senate, but it would also probably attract a different kind of senator because a lot of the sort of senior statesman types we have seen and the senate would not necessarily be fans of being pushed around by leadership quite so much. host: we are talking with niels lesniewski. his work available at rollcall.com. what are the chances of a government shutdown right now? guest: i will go 90% that this is going to run out. remember, the government is closed for christmas eve and christmas day, so we won't really feel it until the middle of next week. host: niels lesniewski, thank you for being with us.

on the house of representatives, convening in about 20 seconds at the top of the hour, neglect eastern time. the senate -- not a clock eastern time -- 9:00 eastern time. the senate will take up the bill passed by the house to fund the government and including the $5 billion to fund the wall. live coverage of the house here on c-span, the senate on c-span2. the speaker: the house will be in order. the prayer will be offered by our chaplain, father conroy. candace: let us pray. -- chaplain conroy: lord of wisdom, we give you thanks for giving us another day. prior to the great compromise, benjamin franklin addressed the constitutional convention. quote, we indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom since we have been running about in search of it. in this situation of