national conflict resolution center's ashley on efforts to promote -- and political diffs -- discourse. williams discusses president trump's record with minorities. good morning and welcome to washington journal. discussing second chances he thered which overalls guidelines of prison sentences. today, we want to know if you support these types of changes. we are going to open the phone lines to you. do you support giving ex-convicts a second chance? if you believe yes, please call us at (202) 748-8000. if you believe know, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001.

if you have experience in the criminal justice system, whether you are an ex-convict, and law enforcement officer, imprisoned prison, or in the legal field, we want it or your story at (202) 748-8002. of course, you can always richest on social media, on and on at c-span wj facebook at facebook.com/c-span. first, we want to start with one of those great washington traditions. a president brings some christmas joy tickets from around the united states. as we all know, norad tracks santa. on his journey around the world. and so, last night, trump and first lady milani a spoke to children on the phone about santa's whereabouts. he also talked a bit about the government shutdown and here's what he had to say.

trump: i will see you tomorrow, i will see you soon. nothing new. nothing new. except we need more security. that was trump calling children around the nation about santa's whereabouts and telling them that there's nothing new on the government shutdown. but we want to get back to our question of the day.

trump signed into law the first step act, which was passed by a bipartisan party in congress. and i want to read you a little bit from about what the criminal justice first act does. front on friday signed a sweeping criminal justice reform bill marking a major legislative issue that garnered bipartisan support despite deep partisan gridlock. "we have everybody wanting this he said. referring to sections of different interest that lined up the on the legislation. >> bipartisan vote was all the more noteworthy considering from ongoing cries for portable funding which he insists are part of an important government spending package. without the deal, the funding will trigger a partial government shutdown at midnight. but on the sidelines of that fight, the house overwhelmingly approved the criminal justice bill thursday on a three under

58-36 vote. decisive pass marks a win for trump as well as this senior adviser and son-in-law, jared kushner. the first step act would give federal judges more leeway and boost prisoner rehabilitation. another provision would allow about 2600 for crack cocaine offenses before august 2010 for a reduced penalty. it also incentivizes prisoners to participate in programs designed to reduce the risk with evermore being an earlier release or a halfway house to complete their sentence. this will not be made available

who areers -- offenders also convicted of violent firearm offenses, sexual exploitation of children, or high-level harewood or fentanyl use. janet who is calling from washington. generally, good morning. caller: hello. host: go-ahead, we can hear you. caller: i think everybody deserves a second chance because lots of people never got caught for what they did do. they have to be watched so they don't hurt anybody or do a bad crime that they should be counseled and given the chance that i think trump had all the chances he can possibly get. wall,k if he wants that he should be paying for it with his taxes. we have been in such a deficit, we don't have money for it.

i don't have the money, i'm not going to get a new house and i don't have the money. now he thinks that the people like us are going to pay for. i think he's handicapped from meking hard, and people like and everybody else, they can't afford to pay for that wall. he's a billionaire, and billionaires like him that have the money, let them pay for it. but he wants the money from the working people that don't have it. he wants to put us in a bigger deficit. we have been in a deficit in the reagan and the biggest deficit in history every other day. i mean, all he wants to do is build up deficits and he wants putin to betray our country.

host: st. petersburg, florida. good morning. good morning and happy holidays to you and everyone. i think many of the provisions are very reasonable. i do caution that the popular wisdom might be an error as to the number of people in jail being ridiculous. it might be false in many ways. instance, on the issue which might be incorporated into the ideal second chance being restored balance. worked, and i tried to do a lot during campaign season. sending thoughts on many issues to candidates, doing lots and

lots of things like that. i'm going to have to remind myself of richard. the idea that we are technically not restrain their right to vote is really absurd. even if one were restored, it oflly is an idea politically just getting someone to vote. host: you said that you think the present population is being over exaggerated. beler: i think it might well for a number of things. numbers that are in there, but i mean as far as it really, the term that is

given to violent crime is very minuscule and the sentences have been so often reduced and indeed, the jail time is counted in pretrial against that. thatne needs to not accept and rather look into that in part, that influence. concerned and summon a the countries that so many people are in prison. there are several hundred who are unjustly imprisoned because they have simply not committed a crime against anybody.

so, that's my thinking on the issue. but mercy is important, justice is important. and looking straight on the issue. i'm not saying that the numbers are being falsely stated, but that the penalty that many folks assume is going on may be true, maybe not. host: let's go to michael from minnesota. good morning. caller: happy holidays to all. is whatmy concerned happens when we release these individuals? in my case, i had to go through treatment and i never did state time, but i did a lot of county

time. over the course of about 40 years, i think i've done maybe 3.5 years worth of jail time. but what was central to me was that i went through some health counselors, and i did everything in my mind, in my heart to do what i wanted because the first thing i wanted to do was reconnect with my family. and then i want to pay child support. and then i want to be a taxpayer. once i got all of these other obstacles out of my way like going through treatment, a 12 step program, getting some anger management issues out of the way, i was able again to pursue what they call a certificate of rehabilitation. now, this is a costly situation because it's more money

involved. but if you really want to be involved in this great nation, the united states of america, then you need to get up and act up and be a grown man or a grown woman and do what you've got to we have been taking care of them for as long as they been incarcerated. now, it's time for them to get up. that are you in a state allows people to get out of jail to vote? or you able to pursue getting your voting rights back? caller: once i had cleared my commitment to the great state of minnesota, yes. host: how do you get more people who are in prison to become like you, active members of society once they get out? do we need more programs inside the prison or do something need to be done after their release.

both. we have a program called correctional contact. individuals who have had intertwining relationships with law enforcement now are what we call sponsors of the young people who are coming up. we find them housing, job opportunities, we provide rides, we provide care for them, anything, money if possible. we want to make sure that we give them the guidelines in the had,for the steps that we not to come out there blindfolded. host: this first step law passed by congress, i know it only deals with federal prisons, but what you think about this law. caller: i think it's a joke. it helps, but we need a broadband. you can't just say one group can get something but they are both in the same situation. post: you think you need more state health as well? caller: yes, i do.

and the money situation. host: let's go to laura, north carolina. caller: i am forgiving the president a second chance. they do not have many programs that benefit you inside the and all that women do is nothing. this nothing for them to do, nothing to reform them. and ifed help in their, once they get out, it's hard to

get a job. every time you put on your application that you have been to prison or whatever, you're turned down. do you think that city governments should put more money into prison to rehabilitate the people? caller: yes, i do. programshey should put and stuff for them to do, , a lot oflot of those the people going to prison now are young. and they really don't have any respect for themselves or nobody else. so, they need to have programs for anger management, all types of things and educate them. know, and to get people so that they will be able to be a citizen. people want tof time they go to try to put in for a job, they

are denied, they can't get a job. walk around stealing, breaking into houses, robbing. continuously. host: you think that they should have to reveal whether they were in prison on a job application, or do you think it should be left off. host: -- caller: i think that once they get out and they go fill out an application, because it says have you been convicted in the last seven years? then, once you put no and they do a background check, they turn around and fire you. because even though you have been out of prison for several years, you have not been in no , they do au put no background check and see that you've been in prison, they turn around and fire you.

and you are really think that to have a job. and then all of a sudden, here you go. you're fired. let's go to arthur from memphis, tennessee. aller: yeah, i think they get second chance, but it depends on what you've done. some people, if they haven't killed anybody, i think they deserve a second chance. host: arthur, what type of criminals would you say don't deserve a second chance? caller: -- host: i think arthur left us. george, good morning. christmas.ry post: what you got for us? caller: i served time in state prison. what it comes to the criminal justice system in pennsylvania, i can assure you that there are many people who should be given

a second chance. but i don't think that frankly itdepends on the individual, depends on the time serve except for multiple crimes. if you had multiple homicides you should stay there. cases that canof happen. for example, a man in him, ivania, i was with know him, he's a good friend of mine. there's no help for him. a lot of men have suffered through mistakes in the criminal justice system has made and they then are made to stay in prison for those mistakes. and those mistakes are then legislated away. to where you can come back and say look, it will be reviewed and you will be compensated. i will give you a very good example. are you there? host: i'm still here, keep

going. caller: i had an illegal sentence lead to 16 to 31 years in pennsylvania. instead of taking me back to court and resentencing me, they just added three years on the my sentence. which i serve. i went to the pennsylvania state supreme court and they said you are absolutely right about this issue. but you've waited too long. legislate actual innocent mistakes away? those men are not compensated for those mistakes. how do you do that, have you legislate actual innocence? have you legislate that away? have you throw it away? men, this man in pennsylvania, his name is oliver. he has done over 40 years on a homicide that i am convinced, and i was on the inside with him, i am completely convinced these innocent.

yet, he can't get any legal help has his case goes back 40 some years. i strongly support giving ex-convicts a second chance. att: george, like you said the beginning, there are some people who can be helped, there are some people who cannot be helped. , parolerison officials officials be able to tell between the people who can be held and the ones who can't? caller: there are different details in each person's case that would indicate the kind of person that they are. for example, excessive violence or someone has shot someone may be, and then they stand up and shoot them again. multiple times, or one more time. there are examples in each case that show how far a man or a woman will go with their criminal behavior.

there are indications it would take experts, psychologist, and the criminal justice system and its present as a psychologist. it would come down to prison staff and this is what they do rightfully anyway. this isn't anything new. they monitor your behavior and you come up for parole, the seo expand your parole. a report to the parole office and to the parole board that has access to see it, how that man has been acting in the past year or so since last parole or leading up to his parole date. calls,n monitor phone listen to what kind of things people are planning, and they could act. they have security on the phones. so there's a number of different wellthat you can pretty tell, is that completely, 100% accurate? you're making a decision based on what you see.

but when you deal with people on a regular basis and they live in your care, so to say, it's easy to see the different dynamics that they have involved in their makeup. their psychological makeup. there are a number of different indicators that would show that. senator corytic booker was one of the major supporters. there is what he had to say on america's prison population. >> we in this country, if you go into our prisons and out of jail, we incarcerate those who are marginalized in our society. those who are most vulnerable in our society. overwhelmingly in the united , the lavrov americans who are already hurting and and often need help from a system that hurts them.

our prisons have become warehouses for people that are suffering with trauma, struggling with disease, struggling with illness. right now, our prisons and jails are filled overwhelmingly with people with mental illness, overwhelmingly with americans struggling with addiction, overwhelmingly with americans who are survivors of sexual assault. also, overwhelmingly full of americans who are low income. and peopler folks who are disproportionately people of color. countrya system in our that feeds upon certain communities and not others. is fueledrugs which so much of the explosion of our prison population has really been a war on the people. on certain people in certain communities and not on others. host: let's go to hell and from

michigan. good morning. caller: merry christmas. host: go ahead. caller: you know, i'm really grateful that they are doing this, because it's so unfair. i truly, truly believe it. here you got trump talking about all these people coming over, bringing drugs from mexico. but here, his son-in-law comes because ifidea and he sells ad, little bit of pot, i don't think that he should be sentenced forever. i don't think he should be sentenced for a lifetime of

pen.ce in the anything, is probably going to get worse. prison is no place for children and young people. there are a lot of people, and it is true, i'm white, but it is true, it is mostly black americans, african-americans that go to jail are women. and i find it her rent a sleep horrible. it is a sin. mean, they are dealing drugs.

and because they are working on medications and things of that .ature i mean, that's what they were doing it, is giving out all these drugs. all these people that are now drugs.m being hooked on and now, marijuana in a few states is legal. it's just unfair to keep people in prison for all that time. be able to vote, they should be able to have a life. just out right. let's go to massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning. we want to give somebody a second chance but if you watch the news every day, you see time after time someone that is second and third

offense, most of the people keep committing the crimes. those who committed crimes before, just had someone who was on drugs that just killed two young children last week. lost tooe making i lacks. -- we are making our laws too lax. watch the news. every single day, people are driving impaired and people are alwaysilled, but there's a propensity commit that crime again. we see it. i don't know what the answer is. all i know is that innocent people are being robbed. post: how do you find that line between helping people and just incarcerating them to mark and we find that line?

if any day i could say it, it's probably today. and i know a lot of people don't like religion, but when a country gets away from the principles of god, you are going to have these problems. we are taking prayer out of school. that the book falls us -- told us to follow the law. i hear god. the country does not fear god. that is your message. the people refuse to listen to it. there are believers out there who know this. instead of us teaching the bible in prison, let's teach the bible in schools and see the country changed. not overnight. but there are laws for a reason and god has set up those laws for mankind. we are intrinsically evil and we need to listen to the word of god. have a great christmas, everybody. host: ocean shores, washington. good morning. caller: good morning to you all.

in, last caller that called i especially commend you for advocating for the laws of god. i hear somebody talking. i was go-ahead, i hope i'm on. post: we can hear you. caller: very well. i commend c-span for sponsoring this program so we could hear the voice of citizens and people everywhere to participate in our government because we need that. and that's one of the good things about trumpeting the presidency, he is sparking people to get in there and ascribed to do something, to make things better. i'm not in favor of trump.

he's done a lot of bad things. between mexico and the united as far as drugs and that, i think the united states from alliese world the government, unfortunately sponsors drugs. if you want to do marijuana, or whatever drugs, the government will of clinics. if you can go and do those drugs the economy has improved dramatically. the economy has improved dramatically. what experienced you have

with the criminal justice system? caller: i spent a and a half months in county jail, self-defense shooting of my son. we are close friends now. it was a very serious thing. he came close to taking my life several times over several years. and he decided he was going to end it once and for all. told him i will shoot you, you're not going to take my life. you think fast in situations. it lasted about three or four seconds total. and i was firing rapidfire, semi automatic rifle.

and it struck around next to him and in front of him and he walked into the first round and in the next one i tried to hit him in the leg and the third one he was really low, he crouched down to jump on me, just as i pulled the trigger. he came close -- he's alive, it was a terrible thing. host: were you able to get any rehabilitation? caller: yes. he is still working on it. he's better now, he ended up blind as a result of loss of was and at the time he getting out of 10 in jail and is getting ready to go to prison for a year and a day. he didn't know at the time, he came out and the next morning he

decided he was going to take my truck to town. he got in a wreck with the truck before me. you are going to have to go on a flat tire. he decided he was going to get out of the truck and take my life. horrible thing. host: i'm glad to hear you are both ok now, is that correct? i have serious -- being blindom multiple them and surgeries.

he's taking it a lot better than i have. as far as giving people another chance, i'd like to say that what we're doing here this morning, we are judging people, we are judging laws and we are supposed to judge, what we are not supposed to do is pass judgment. no, don'tords, saying give convicts a second chance, that's passing judgment. and we are not here to condemn anybody. regardless of what a person has done, i'm not saying let the person go if they have done andal assault andrape violent crimes, i say don't let them go.

host: republican senator tom cotton is one of the leading voices against this bill. here he is on the senate floor talking about victims rights when it comes to criminal justice. should stand with victims at a time when we are passing legislation that is going to/sentences on the front-end for serious and repeat felons and then release them early on the back end. it's not too much to ask that we notified the victims when they are released early from prison and give those victims a chance to comment. host: let's go to some tweets for some of our viewers. here is a tweet from lewis davis they have proper rehab, the only ones who don't get a second chance are child molesters and first-degree murder is.

prison is to stop being used to house the mentally ill. one more, let's see they get a second or third already. the real question is how much the society keep having to put up with before we throw away the key? was go to eric from california. caller: good morning and merry christmas. yes, i support a second chance act, but i also think we could do a whole lot better. because you should be turning the prisons in the hospital. and by doing this, it changes the situation under the hospital system, you can be put in hospice indefinitely. and get treated. wants to stayrson in the criminal justice system, they can do their time and not

get help. but if you're going to the hospital system, again, everybody has an opportunity to get help. turn the prisons in the hospitals. most of the people in prison are mentally disturbed anyway. doing this, we are now getting everybody this opportunity to be helped, turn the prisons in the hospitals like all the programs were you have the justice system on one side, the health system on the other side, and basic family community at the bottom. you need to of these organizations to sign off to get out of this system. host: eric, what do you do about security in most hospitals because that's one of the biggest concerns. what do you do about security? for the doctors and the people who work in the hospitals? caller: it's so simple.

they are called hospitals, they are no longer called prisons. just changing our attitudes about human beings. god,as a man said about the bible has one system. because we as a country have not done it correctly, it lets people -- stop holding peoples passed over their heads. the biggest problem that we are , it ends mass incarceration in america. by doing this. when a person has received a gift from god, they are not going to come out here and be reacting the same way. but if you keep reminding me of my past, what do i have to look forward to? as long as people don't have are going to have all this criminal behavior from people. but if we did the bible

correctly, celebrated jubilee, turn the prisons into hospitals, just changed the way we think about things and how we spend this money. let's go to james from virginia. gains, good morning. caller: good morning. on a criminology graduate from the university of maryland back in the 80's. we did study a lot about causes of criminality going back to books to looking at economics, to lookingat race, at the different legal systems. honestly today, i think what we should do, first time somebody is incarcerated, we should give them every medical evaluation of possible. , make somem morally

decisions. a lot of this is genetic in my opinion. just as mental illness is. i don't know how that can be figured out. the second time, i think we should address exactly why they did it and try to address what time,ed but for the third no one uses the word deterrence if you come from the right situation. to see anso like overhaul of the whole criminal justice system which would be and i feel ifal you are arrested for marijuana in maryland, you can go to jail for years first in colorado where you would not go to jail because you could not get arrested. that's completely unfair in the

current system, the police are rather than detective work, everything is about getting somebody they arrested, hitting them with five or six charges, threatening 30 years in jail, and then getting them to what somebody else might or might not have done, ,nd then those people eventually somebody takes a deal and goes to jail who oftentimes is innocent. chances, i grew whitea quote unquote privilege neighborhood. the police had a lot of what was called a discretion back then. when i was called as a juvenile issing something illegal, should be let go.

line is was called probation. instead of going to jail, you are supervised. once you are in the prison system today, you really are just locked up with the keys thrown away. they do give you access to libraries and access to getting degrees. so i don't quite understand what the big deal about that is. aboutlet's talk numbers what this bill will do, and this is a story that was written. estimated of prisons roughly 53,000 prisoners could be released. there are roughly 108,000 current federal inmates according to the bureau which declined to comment on which facilities would be affected. but get to the bottom.

the first step act retroactively applies changes congress made in will leth experts say out between 4000 and 6000 to immediatelyrs qualify for supervised release programs. " they are not going to be released the next day, they are going on to was known as community supervision for three to five years as was stipulated with the actual sentence." colorado.o kelly from caller: good morning, how are you doing? merry christmas. host: same to you. miles: i live within 10 of a federal prison in a state prison. now, second chance? look, these guys are there for a reason. they disrespected society and

they are there for a reason. sure, some of them might have got put in their for something minor like marijuana. now we don't have to worry about that. but the majority of these people are in prison for a reason. rehabisons do not prisoners. they incarcerate prisoners and they feed them. that's all they do. these guys, you want a second chance, i don't know. i don't think there's a way to give them a second chance. i see these people come out of prison and they come into this podunk town and we have the biggest crack problem right here in our little town. this is supposed to be small-town america, supposed to be happy and good. but we have all these crack andcts coming out of prison they are criminals, i'm sorry,

they are criminals. and they need to be punished for what they did. host: let me interview. the u.s. already has the world's largest prison population. what do we do to change this system that you are seeing with people coming out of jail and doing the exact same thing for doing even worse things, have you change this? caller: i don't know. that's the problem. because they get out of prison, they are going to do the same thing they did because that's all they know. that's how they know to make money. that's how they know to survive. that's what they do. i'm sorry, i don't mean to be a jerk about this, but hey, you are there for a reason. and i don't see that prisons are going to rehab anybody and a second chance is just giving them a second chance to do the same thing again. let's go to bruce, from florida. thank you for taking my call,

good morning. i don't know where to begin. let me preface what i've got to say, i'm an ex-convict. the first time i was arrested in my life at 18 years old i did 73 months in prison. got aan education, i trade, i got out of prison in 2000 and i have never been unemployed. , the job i've ever had first thing i was asked was if they have a problem with a convicted felon and if they do, the conversation can end. what i'm hearing with these callers is this ignorance. a second chance, everybody deserves a second chance. it's the third, fourth, fifth to get were you need imprisoned. but everybody that goes to prison is not a criminal

fundamentally, meaning their character is not a criminal. it is too easy to get put in prison in this country. first of all, this sounds radical, but i believe all drugs should be decriminalized. themselvesust drugs was not a crime to send you to prison, you would cut the population in half or more. the biggest problem that drug addicts run into is when they run out of whatever drug they are addicted to. they can get it. everyone of them does not have to rob and steel. if society is ok with functioning alcoholics like we have, then they need to accept the fact that there are functioning drug addict society. that's the worst thing for people to go to prison for. secondly, prisons need to be set up for rehabilitation. education, trade schools, all that needs to be mandatory for inmates. most of them are getting out one

day, so they need to be forced to get an education or they can spend their time in confinement. choice togive them a get an education if it's available, which most prisons in florida offer some type of trade school, but it's not mandatory for you to do it. these people are going to get out one day, they need a job and a lot of the people in prison don't realize how uneducated they are until they get their and started going through some of the educational process. i've seen plenty of people get out of prison and be successful, and another point, it's hard to say this without consulting a big part of the population, but god and the bible and all this stuff, we need to let that go. myth thisncourage a the 21st century, we have science and technology to telephones going on.

we don't want that in schools, that's the problem. indoctrinating children from birth to believe that they are inherently bad, that's another whole subject. i absolutely believe everybody deserves a second chance. it's the third, fourth, fifth. except for child molesters, sex offenders, maybe they should get the death penalty. before murder, because mortar can have circumstances and be justified. let's go back to some of our tweets from some of you viewers. here's one from michele irwin. in secondly believe chances. one of the main reasons for the revolving door of society is that it discriminates against people with a record. if you are convicted of a felony is extremely hard to get a job. it depends on the nature of the charge. one, you pay your debt to society of course.

that's our judicial system, or supposedly. good luck with the prejudice of being an ex-con. new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning. yes, i do believe that ex-convicts should be given a second chance, but based on why they became incarcerated. also, i think ex-cons given a second chance should be a slow process and maybe there should be a strong, diverse committee put together the pilot a program with mandatory requirements for ex-cons to be qualified for a second chance. that's all i have. host: let's go to new york. in morning. caller: good morning. i think everyone has a second thate but i want to say they have toys --

decide to be under the control of the regime. punish those who are against him. organizations -- no one dares to support this. it recently has become so called to be fired. these comments oppose from everyday and the struct major myths on news. i think -- host: let's go to elizabeth from kansas. good morning. caller: good morning and merry christmas. i would like to say that marijuana, our government has

lied to us for a most 100 years also, big pharmaceutical companies are helping to keep than the legal so they can make money off of other painkillers and depressants, etc.. marijuana is a natural medicine. it has, of course it has thc, but it also has 2 p.m. and indo cannabinoids. and they are trying to divide up these different parts of the marijuana plant so they can make more and more money off of it. and there are people suffering from marijuana being illegal. and i also watched another program on c-span or c-span2 and they were talking about fentanyl and amphetamines fall

being a threat to national security coming from china and mexico. and i watch that for about an hour, an hour and a half, and marijuana was never, ever mentioned as a threat to national security. sinceerefore, i feel like it never should have been made illegal in the first place, we should make it legal nationwide. that would help a lot of prisoners. host: was your experience with the criminal justice system? caller: well, i was just put in the county jail for five days for drinking. and driving. marijuana which they of course started questioning me a whole lot about that. host: what are the state laws and kansas about marijuana possession? caller: is illegal in kansas. but they are backwards, behind the times, uneducated.

they have been lied to for so long, being told to be afraid of it, and they don't know any better. host: is go to north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning, happy holidays. that our problems with the prison system has more to do with the jim crow system that has been in america for a very long time and other people having privilege that they don't have to even go to court to stand for a crime that they commit. they have money already through the jim crow system and a lawyer shows up for them. they don't hear anything else about it. it's all done by the lawyer.

but then, when you have young the courtople with prison, they to wind up being double jeopardy, going to get a job and then people use them to get a job. whereas i was also a corrections officer. prisoneople have gone to for real, real bad situations. and they windhome up being able to get a job and move on with their life. even before that, they don't treat people like they do, or beat people down and all that. the system is dumb. that's what it is. host: let's go to tacoma, washington. good morning.

caller: first of all, i do agree with you the ethnicity issue. but also, i actually feel that if you know the way to stop it is by educating them, then why not offer education? instead of offering it, make it mandatory. you make everything else mandatory, so make it mandatory to go to school. if you are serving a ten-year murder, will for that depends on the murder situation is because it's a first offense murder, the navy to look at each case individually. in half. time if you get your bachelors degree, you serve your sentence, not aou get your degree, major violent crime, get released. that way, they can also be employed.

the they are employed, chance of them offending is going to be pretty low. host: fort lauderdale, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i really don't believe that ex-convicts should be given a second chance. i believe that they should earn that chance. i believe that it should be a program and they have an opportunity to go through steps to earn their way into that second chance program. host: how would someone earn their way into that program, how do we we have the people who don't deserve a second chance? that's i think that's where the steps program comes in, you have to prove themselves that they are worthy of a second chance. i don't think they should automatically be given that second chance. what do you think, how should they prove themselves, by earning a degree, by going out,

how would they earn that? how would they prove that they deserve that? caller: i think being a positive contributor to society in terms of crimes that they have committed. one,g their victims, for admitting that they did wrong. when it comes down to working, showing that they can truly hold down the job. and drug testing and so forth. i don't think that the shelving that is just given to a person, i think you earn your way into the prison system, you need to earn your way back into society. host: coming up, the national conflict resolution under discuss efforts to promote civility and political conversation and little discourse. and later on, day three of washington journal week long series, seven days of what we

think are the most important books of the year. in about 30 minutes we will talk to offer a fox news political "whatt of his latest book the hell do you have to lose: trumps war on civil rights." will be right back. ♪ announcer: the united states senate, a uniquely american institution. legislating and carrying out constitutional duties since 1789. on wednesday, january 2, c-span takes you inside the senate. learning about the legislative body and its informal workings. ofwill look at its history conflict and compromise with original interviews. >> arguing about things and

taking them around and having great debates is a thoroughly american thing. announcer: key moments in history. and unprecedented access. allowing us to bring cameras inside the senate chamber during session. follow the evolution of the senate into the modern era. the era from advice and consent to their role in impeachment proceedings and investigations. senate, conflict and compromise, a c-span original production, explore the history, tradition, and role of this uniquely american institution. mirrors wednesday, january 2 at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span. be sure to go online at c-span.org/senate to learn more about the program and watch original full-length interviews with senators, view their will speeches from long serving members, and take a tour inside the senate chamber, the old

senate chamber, and other exclusive locations. c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's television companies. today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. washington journal continues. talking --, we are we are talking to our families about politics, a lot of us talk about politics around the christmas table. we are going to learn how to do that correctly today from ashley virtue, the director of external relations at the national

conflict resolution center. merry christmas, ashley. good morning. guest: good morning to you. host: what is the national conflict resolution center? guest: if you cannot tell from our name at the national conflict resolution center, we really do with this idea of conflict. we are really comfortable in it, we work in it day in, day out. the flipside of dealing with conflict is we are also doing a lot with conflict resolution on the positive side of conflict. there is ao believe civil way to disagree with one another. when equipped with some of the right communication tools, you are able to do that. you can have healthy and constructive conversations. what we do at the national conflict resolution center is really equipped people with those tools so they can have those conversations, dialogue.

host: what do you think is the current state of the political discourse in this country? guest: we have stepped very far away from, i think, healthy discourse. right now, we live in a state in our country where people do one of two things. they either avoid conflict completely, so they have ruled out having the conversations. they would just prefer not to see the people they disagree with, not to engage in those conversations, or people have , where weattack mode have completely villain eyes to anyone who has views that are different from ours. unfortunately, i think we have seen that permeating throughout the country. i think we see that in the government. i also think that we see it in schools, universities, sometimes

in workplaces. while all of that sounds very negative, i think there really is an opportunity and chapter ahead where people will be more engaged in civil discourse because, really, what we are seeing at this point, this fightingus notion of and attacking each other as well as avoiding it altogether is not getting us where we need to be as a country. we have to return to having sometimes difficult but important conversations. it sound like the conversations and a discourse now is worse than it used to be. am i understanding your position that now our political discourse is worse than it used to be? guest: i do think it has become worse over the years. little bitt sight a on the idea that there is a healthy way to disagree with one another. you think the

cause of this loss of political discourse is the media, social media, what is causing this reversion in political discourse? guest: i don't think we can point to any one thing. i think it has happened over time, over years, really. what i think it starts with is our children. them are exemplifying to -- say today, over the holiday table, you have children at the table. let's say we are exemplifying that, uncle so-and-so cannot talk to aunt so-and-so because they fight over this political issue. or mom leaves the room every time grandpa brings up how he voted or something.

what we are showing them is this is nerve-racking, not a fun conversation, or it is only fun if we are fighting and trying to win. if we start than with our children, of course, they grow up thinking that. or years, we have been getting to this point. however, there is a lot that contributes to it. social media, certainly. we now have access to information, access to people from all over the world that we simply did not before. we are engaging in conversation that we would not have engaged in 20, 30 years ago because we can speak with somebody across the country or in a completely different part of the country where we probably would not have the conversation before, which can be a good thing. it is just a matter of how we are doing it. host: today is the day that we have a lot of family around the table, having big family

get-togethers. to have we do to speak these conversations with people who have opposing views across the table and still keep it civil? guest: i think today is an opportunity. for some of your viewers, i hope they can utilize it as that. of course, some of these ideas go well beyond just the holiday table today, and hopefully, become a people -- part of people's lives. the first thing to share is we have to get rid of this very contentious notion of right versus wrong. when weean by that is, create our political views, we have done a lot of research, thinking about why we come to ws, why we feel the way

revealed. because we have put time and research into that, obviously, we feel right in our views. but we automatically assume that anyone who does not agree with that must be wrong. contentious and we need to get rid of that notion of right versus wrong, and have more of a dialogue about here is what i believe, here is what i think and why. tell me about what is different from that. try to learn from them instead of loading and attacking them for not thinking the way that you do. host: any other tips that you y'allssuggest from research that would help the conversation? guest: this is a golden rule of communication and it sounds simple, listen to the other person. when i say that, people often -- listen, i get it.

or they say, of course, listening is important. i want to take it a step further. when we listen to other people we disagree with, what we tend to think that means is simply being quiet and not interrupting them. wow that is a good start, that is not really listening. when we do that, we are showing the respect of not interrupting, but we are probably reloading our own thoughts and arguments that we want to present next in our head. if we are just focused the entire time on reloading our own thoughts to argue with the other person while they are talking, we are not really human what they are saying. the harder but more effective in to do is, take that time to yourself tolenge you in repeat back what you heard the other person say. that doesn't mean you agree with it. it doesn't mean you have to say,

i agree with you and here is what you said. demonstrating i heard you, i took the time to listen, it will help the other person feel like they have been heard and will need to interrupt you. they will also then be more likely to hear what you have to say in return. host: let's get some of our callers involved in the conversation. we are going to do regional lines today. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, we want you to call (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain and pacific time zones, we want you to call in at (202) 748-8001. keep in mind, you can always reach us on social media, at twitter and on facebook. com/cspan. our first caller is from arizona. good morning. caller: good morning, world. merry christmas to the world.

we all have to get along. out i would like to point how unfair the americans were treated by europeans, and that started the whole problem of what we live with today. i will call it here as a narrative. you can describe it as them and us. that started the whole problem. when you start dividing people up between them and us, you don't give people a chance to communicate. what happened to the people? they are gone. 97% of the people are gone, they are diminishing, their eyesight is gone. what i would like to point out is how this country, how it evolved.

it evolved from a lot of cruelty. i just want to point out the truth. host: how do we get away from the them and us conversation, ashley? guest: that is going back again to that contentious notion of creating, if you are not with me, you are against me idea. one of the things that is one, is not to, label people, if you are not with me you are against me. two, hear their point of view. three, tried to understand where you may share common ground with differento is very from you, comes from a different place than you. that can be hard to find and seek out. however, if it is there, it can be a starting point for healthy dialogue. host: let's go to james. tin, connecticut.

good morning. good morning, thank you very much. merry christmas. my point is not about how we got to where we are at, but how would people load -- respect one another. i would refer to the boy scouts. we had a generation of people, including myself, my brothers, my neighborhood, were raised to be kind, obedient, trustworthy. when you learned kindness and obedience and respect, part of that was the respect other people's views. i think now we are in a society where nobody has been taught these morality aspects and we are trying to pull how to behave without a moral background in order to do that. that is more like political 70's speak that it is actually being who it is. one other thing i noticed, i noticed today even with online

dating, so many of the women profiles are, don't even talk to me if you support trump, or if you are republican, forget it. i have to laugh. people votedction for obama in the last election, trump in this one, maybe in the n, the woman bide from california. how can people be so parochial that one opinion matter so much in their lives when we are evolving as people? i will take your call in listen to your response. caller: was that a question for me, james? host: go ahead, what did you think about the comment? caller: i think there's a lot of true to that, james. it is difficult when people shut off from having a conversation at all with someone who thinks differently than they do. one of the hardest things that

we try to communicate is, by listening to someone else -- and i mention this earlier, it does not mean that you agree with them. the whole point of communication, dialogue is not to get everyone singing kumbaya and agree with one another. the point is to hear each other and to try to move the needle forward on some issues. it is really difficult to do that if we have isolated each other from being willing to have conversations with people. i think that has happened for a reason, those conversations have become heated and frustrated, so i understand that, i understand people are tired, exhausted from the political discourse that is happening every day, the onslaught happening. i do get that, sometimes you want to shut that out. know -- and that the national conflict resolution

that if younow really want to affect minds and hearts -- if your goal is to take someone who voted differently than you and have them see your perspective, doing it in a way where you have attacked them will likely only entrench them in their views, not help them see your perspective and potentially open their mind. really, if the end of what you're trying to do is shame someone, that is a very german strategy that may be trying to convince them or open their hearts to what you see. host: one of our viewers tweeted in the statement, it is best not to talk about religion or politics among family gatherings or friends unless you know they agree with you. otherwise it can lead to anchor and make folks feel uncomfortable. if you are hosting a holiday dinner, should you tell your

guess we are not talking about politics? caller: i know a lot of people that have made this rule. it exists in the workplace and now in families as well. every family is different and the way they communicate is different. the most important thing about today being christmas or any holiday you celebrate with your family is, is that family togetherness. i understand families that want to preserve that. in terms of announcing it to your guests, depending on who is on your table, it could do that opposite affect, where if you have someone who really likes the debate, argument, it could make them curious as to why you said that, made that rule, and they may push back, especially if they feel the need to be heard, want to be heard today. i do think if you are one of those individuals that comes into a conversation and makes themselves heard, understand

that this is a day to demonstrate respect to your family, especially if you are a guest at someone's home, it is always good to respect the rules they have sent out. but i encourage people to have healthy, civil conversations. if it is not today because you want to focus on the meal, family time, that is ok. but try to have the conversations. . acknowledge they are hard but again, what progress are we making if we are not able to that with one another? host: linda is calling from missouri. good morning. caller: i do have a question. , there wasgrowing up sort of an unwritten rule in my family that you did not discuss religion or politics at any of our family gatherings because we .ad a mixture of people

everyone was much happier not doing that. we enjoyed each other more. as i have grown older, i have children, grandchildren. socialhave noticed is media -- and i'm not against also for media -- but social media, twitter, facebook enables people to hide behind and say the most atrocious things online. whether it is in the government, your family, friends that have broken things apart. family,ven within my when they want to have something of a serious discussion, i get it by text message. when people have to face each other, face to face, and have a

difficult conversation, the outcome seems to me to be better . because you can see the person and the intonation, you can hear that, or even in a phone call you can hear that, where we don't see it. we do not filter out our tweets, emails, things on social media. i was wondering if you could speak to that a little. thank you very much. such a goodis point. absolutely. social media and the fact that we can email and text in moments has changed everything. the digital communication world we live in is very real and it changes the way we have conversations. there are two sides to the coin. one is it is reality. if you have children, grandchildren, they are going to text you things that you would rather have a phone call about.

not goingia is anywhere and people are going to be engaging in it more and more. hand, we have to realize there are ways to communicate digitally that can be very effective. there are ways to demonstrate you are listening, acknowledge you understand what someone is going through, the impact on them. there are ways to do that through social media or written word which you can do in person. it is important we focus on that , and that gets to what you are saying. it is a lot easier to take the attack method on social media because we are not face to face. i think people have a lot of bravado across social media, you are hiding behind computer screen a little bit. there is a sense of safety when you are in your pajamas on your laptop as opposed to face-to-face with someone.

but that is a little bit of a , ine notion because actuality, what we say on social media can live in perpetuity. in many ways, we need to be more careful with the way we have conflict digitally. those things stay there for a long time. a we can demonstrate we are levelheaded, civil-minded person open to dialogue, in a way that can be looked back on, i think that speaks volumes for a person. host: there are some politicians that have talked about elevating the political discourse. i want you to listen to what outgoing house speaker paul ryan had to say about lifting the political discourse. often, genuine disagreement quickly gives way to intense distrust. time trying tore

convict one another than we do trying to develop our own convictions. being against someone has more currency than being for anything. has foundf us ourselves operating on the wrong side of this equation from time to time. and all of this gets amplified with an incentive structure that preys on people's fears and algorithms that play on anger, outrage has become a brand. and as with anything that gets marketed, it gets scaled up. it becomes more industrialized, more cold, unfeeling. that is the thing. for all the noise there is actually less passion, energy. we sort of default to lazy litmus tests and denunciations. pablum fedemotional through a trough of outrage. it is exhausting. it saps meeting from our politics. it discourages good people from pursuing public service.

do politicians have any responsibility in changing the political discourse that we are having amongst citizens? guest: absolutely they do. the stage fort us, they are who we watch so much of the time. certainly, i think politicians have a responsibility to --onstrate that they literally, their job is to work together, have disagreements, and keep the country moving forward. so they do. i appreciate that he acknowledged that we all have those moments where we are not good at this. i work at the national conflict resolution center and i myself have had those moments where i get a little bit entrenched in what i'm thinking. but ifis immune to that we are aware with it and honestly working on it, i think

a lot of what he said is correct. we get so caught up in the noise of the conflict that we forget there are actual issues there any to be resolved. joe is calling from galveston, texas. good morning, joe. caller: good morning and thanks for c-span. that i one of the things was watching over a period of time, how things have changed, how it affects the discourse, conversations that happen with this err by omission. everybody comes in with part of the story but not the whole story. we try to bring the issues down like everything is black and white and some of these issues are very complicated.

there is a large gray area. what happens when people come in , when it doespart not lead to compromise? a lot of these things that we have a tremendous debate about in our country right now, immigration, a lot of the other issues, there is middle ground. but everybody just comes in with a partial story. only -- evenot going to look at the middle ground, politicians are forced to the sides and you never compromise. i will hang up and let you comment. guest: thank you, joe. definitely, when you come into a situation assuming you know all sides of the story, i would add to that. assuming you know the valleys of the person you are speaking with , can be a big mistake in a healthy conversation.

electively, iot, include myself in sometimes making a mistake. someone says i am for or against this, and that is not what i am personally or against, and i assume i know why they feel that way. we have to be careful with that. we have to seek from other people, why do you feel that way? we're often not interested in knowing that -- why do i care why they are that way, they are wrong. their opinion is incorrect. the reason it is important to care why they feel a certain , it isthout knowing that very difficult to do identify the common ground. the common ground that you share with someone could be the starting point to moving the issue forward. so you look at something like the current government shutdown and think, ok, the common ground may exist may only be that the

government needs to be up and running again. but that is a starting point for people to have conversations. getting to that place only happens when you're able to hear from one another why we hold the beliefs we do. host: one last calling from john, mclean, virginia. can you give us a quick question? caller: good morning and merry christmas. assessmenth your with regard to common ground. i certainly agree with paul ryan with regard to elevating the discourse. i am one of those people who enjoys having a political discussion with someone. it doesn't make any difference to me that we disagree. i certainly tolerate their point reasons they are using to defend their point of view, and why we should take that policy position or another

policy position. it takes tolerance and critical thinking, and i'm looking for your comments on this. it takes tolerance and critical thinking, a domination of both when you are having a discussion with someone. most people are talking ideology and ideals and not talking pragmatism. to ank it all comes down technical issue with regard to how we use language and discuss things. too much of our discussions revolve around the logical ,yllogisms, logical fallacies and certainly the major media to the contribute spreading of those logical fallacies. could you talk about the technical side of this, how we debate these policy issues? we do a lot of training

at the national conflict resolution center and one of the workshops that we do looks at different communication styles. i think it is important to acknowledge some people have communication styles that are more emotional, others have communication styles that are more pragmatic, less emotional, lessare direct, others are direct. none of those communication styles are right or wrong. whenhappens often is someone with a very direct, emotional communication style meets someone with a very indirect, reserved communication style, there's a big misunderstanding in terms of where they are coming from. beinge may be accused of illogical, irrational, another person may be accused of being robotic, uncaring, when actually in ourall just fine communication styles if we know how to engage with people with

different ones. yes, there is an element to debate and dialogue that requires levelheadedness. all communication styles can agree that entering into a healthy communication require some calm. also acknowledging that people can process things differently, and that is ok as long as we are respecting one another. we want to thank ashley virtue of the national conflict resolution center for being here today for a very calm and informative conversation about conversations. thank you, ashley. guest: thank you. next, day three of washington journal's weeklong series, seven days of what we think were the most important books of the year. after the break, we talked to juan williams, fox news analyst on his latest book "what the hell do you have to lose?"

we will be right back. >> sunday on q&a. >> we are on the floor of the u.s. senate. that is unprecedented. no one else has got the opportunity to do this. this is for production of a documentary on the u.s. senate. now on the floor where they begin. i will ring around the chamber and get shots during an and afterwards we will go back down onto the floor. >> c-span's executive producer talks about his work on c-span's upcoming original production, the senate, conflict and compromise. if mitch mcconnell suggested this, how much control did he have over the content? >> zero. when we met with him for the first time, we had a couple conditions. one was that you have to grease the skids with the democrats

because if we want access to the republicans, we have to get access to the democrats. and you don't have any editorial control over this. they said that is fine, but we don't want you to focus on the acrimony. said, you cannot ask us to do that it is we are not going to concentrate on it, but again, we cannot shy away from it. we have to come up with a product that we feel both people on the journalism side and people who watch the senate will say they did not give a big wet kiss to the senate, and also that we did not do a hatchet job either. >> c-span's original production, the senate, conflict and copper mines. sunday night at 8:00 eastern on q&a. washington journal continues. host: we are back with juan williams, the author of "what the hell do you have to lose? trump's war on civil rights." good morning.

guest: good morning, merry christmas. host: the title of the book refers to comments the president made during the campaign. let's listen to exactly what he said. rejection, horrible education, no housing, no homes, no ownership, crime at levels nobody has seen. you can go to war zones in countries we are fighting and it is safer than living in some of our later cities that are run by the democrats. i ask you this -- i ask you this. crime, all of the problems. to the african-americans who i employ so many, so many people. to the hispanics, tremendous people. what the hell do you have to lose? give me a chance. i will straighten it out. i will straighten it out. host: so, what made you choose

that, what the hell do we have to lose, for the title of your book? guest: i thought it was such a condescending statement. the president is 72, i'm 64. we have lived to such amazing change in american society with regard to that essential problem of race, in my lifetime in his lifetime. in the book, i mentioned things like the first black president, obviously. that kind of stands out. then you could go on and talk about things like the first chairman of the chiefs of staff colin powell, people in the arts, ludicrous, denzel washington, rising to the top of american culture, american athletes. but the signal events are really the rise of the black middle class, and secondly, the rise of the block google voice.

all of this has happened in my life, incredible civil rights movement. and he has the audacity to say to people, black people, what the hell do you have to lose? i think he was not really speaking to blacks and latinos, i think he was using that as a cover as he was speaking to a mostly white audience in michigan, in a rural area, saying to them, you know what, the conditions in those minority communities are so awful, he likened it to living in afghanistan. he said there were so much drugs, crime, trash in the streets of a bad schools, no economic activity. i think he was saying to that mostly white audience, i'm your hero, i will stand in the breach against people who are a threat to you, people who would mug you, take your jobs, demand affirmative action, be rude to you. i will stand in the breach

because the demographic changes going on in this country are in -- threatening. i think he was making a very strong racial argument. for me, when we think about president trump and the divisiveness, fragmentation of american society, attack on immigrants, when he says what the hell do you have to lose, we have to understand it for what , a critical statement about race in 2018 and going forward. host: those comments were made during his campaign. he is two years into the presidency. has anything changed in your opinion about him? guest: obviously, we have his policies. one of the things i have done in the book is not just talk about what he did during the campaign and is very controversial and condescendings a statement, ignorant of american history and the progress we have made on the race relations front , but to talk about actual policy. for example, if you talk about

something so critical that the moment, black lives matter, what does the movement have to do with? it has to do with police reality, police killings in our states, typically in poor, black neighborhoods. here you have an administration that pursued a policy that said we are opposed to consent decrees between leased apartments and those communities. we are not encouraging them. we are on doing what was done previously. aboutink recently something like affirmative action in terms of college admissions. again, what is the administration policy? we think this discriminates against people who are white, and specifically, asian, in terms of emissions to school. ,ecently we have seen again after the parkland shooting, they do a study. the study does not speak to gun violence, it does not even speak to the kinds of issues we are seeing in parkland.

instead, it says we think the black students, in efforts to lessen suspensions of those students, because they are disproportionate, are misguided, and contribute to violence in schools. was the shooter a black person? no. why would you make this into a racial issue? when you asked me what has changed from the campaign, which famously started on that escalator talking about mexican rapists, they don't send us our best people, to today, i would say it is the actual policies. that is what i wrote the book. i know you are from mississippi. it is the actual policies and the actual history, mr. president. here is james meredith, a mississippian, who put himself on the line to integrate the university of mississippi. the sacrifices made by people like bob moses in the south, in terms of voter registration,

contrary to this administration's effort to claim voter fraud, to suppress minority turnout and votes. some of your views on trump in your book -- i want to read a little bit of it. he intentionally puts on blinders because he finds comfort in political advantage and seeing a distantly different reality. he want to see black failure and misery. that view justifies his distaste for black people. some might say it's racism. he locks eyes on the worst of black american life because it makes him and other white people into victims of the trouble in black neighborhoods. he is the hero defending whites against the approaching barbarians. explain to us what you mean by that. have been talking about the tremendous change, the progress america has made in terms of race relations over the last 70 years, his lifetime, certainly close to my lifetime.

i think to myself -- i was in church the other day. my church is overwhelmingly black. i thought, donald trump, if he came into this church, would not understand these people. it is representative of the fact of blackk 40% plus americans earn between $35,000 and $100,000 a year. an additional 12% earned $100,000 and $200,000 a year. you have more than half of black america either in the middle class or beyond the american middle class. these are people who are strivers. they don't necessarily have well in terms of a lot of real estate, bonds, stocks -- no. but in terms of people who get up in education, hard work, making something better for the next generation, this is black america, this is reality. trumpet instead focuses on the 25% that he sees locked in

poverty, disproportionate in black communities. he focuses there on high incarceration rates in terms of the black community, and he makes that the whole. whoreality in his mind of black people, immigrants, latinos are. it is like the latinos and killing what people. this guy is guilty of violence, this guy ran a red white. that is his image. as opposed to people working three jobs, family living together until someone can or to buy a house. that reality, which is not just today butof america sort of our aspiration and american dream, that you can, and work hard, you can come from the ugliest circumstances, but we are the land of opportunity and we welcome people who want to work hard. i think he is out of touch of that reality and is much more the manhattan developer who theed to move into

hierarchy of new york society, the elite, the people on wall avenue people on madison , media organizations. these are the people he wanted to associate with. he didn't see any latinos, blacks, immigrants in those ranks, and he sees everyone not in those ranks as pretenders and maybe even as a bother to people in the upper reaches of american society. host: this is not your first book. you also wrote a biography about thurgood marshall. you are a busy person, you are a lot of places. what made this so important that you felt this need to be written now? guest: this is to me where we are in race relations today. this is the hot/cold burning right now. stop and think about it. it is 10 years, 2018, but it was

2008 that barack obama was elected president of the united states, the first black president. trump an aside, remember, was making the burglar argument that this guy is not a real american and an illegitimate resident. but this moment 10 years after we elect the first black president, we are locked into a high level of division. if you look at the polls, they indicate most americans now -- 60% of americans now think racial relations are negative. they don't approve of the way trump is handling race relations --the united dates -- estate and i think this is the most incredible part. to me, if you are calling somebody a racist, they shut down. they mayuncomfortable, think that you are going to call them a racist. if you are a black person, you have a chip on your shoulder, if you are a white person -- so most stay away from it.

right now, most pollsters say that donald trump is a racist. i was amazed by that. the reason i had to write this, it does create some discomfort, but we have to be informed in order to move forward. to try to heal some of the divisions that have been created by this president, who uses the divisions, i think, to fuel his political base, and drive them. to me, it is poisonous. ultimately for the society. host: let's let the viewers join in on the conversation. if you are a republican, we want you to call in on (202) 748-8001 . democrats, (202) 748-8000. , (202) 748-8002. you can always reach us on social media on facebook [video clip] --facebook.com/cspan and

twitter, @cspanwj. you talk about the meetings between president trump and the hse bu, and the results of those meetings. tell us what you think the result of that meeting was. why not meeting came about and what has come about since. guest: this is an interesting story and i'm glad you brought it up. i think it ties into 10 years after president obama, here comes president trump and we see division. president trump and his associates, including the education secretary betsy devos, reach out to the hsbc you president obama was black but he did not really do much, he did not pay specific attention and give you the help with financial issues that historical black colleges and universities were, in distress. they came thinking, we are going to get more assistance from this president, even though they understood that he was pointing out barack obama's inadequacies

in his mind. op in the ovalto office, he is sitting there, they are all around the great desk. the promise was there would be additional aid. just as we sit here this morning, that aid never materialized. there have been some increases in pell grant's, disproportionate number of are recipients but in terms of the kind of financial aid they were anticipating, it never materialized and a lot of them feel they got used. in fact, that is the language they use to talk, we were there as a prop for a photo opportunity that allow the president to claim lack support. -- black support. let's go to george in austin, illinois. on the democratic line. caller: good morning.

mr. williams, i am a democrat and i also watch fox news, so i .o see you quite often i like watching it but i must say, i'm 625 years old and as i look back and observe whether it is republicans or democrats, i notice i still don't understand -- i'm african-american we do have problems in the african community, socially and economically. these problems need to be addressed. feel it should not be the african-american community that does most of the lift in addressing these problems. i kind of stay away from the ise thing because race always going to be here, as far as i'm concerned. that is the way god created it.

but what are we going to do in the african-american community to really come together and start addressing these social and economic issues that we have? guest: i appreciate your question. comment. i think it speaks to a lot of very difficult issues, that you cannot wait on the government, you cannot wait on others, you cannot wait on big foundations or politicians in general to come in. insideas to be attention the black community to issues that continue to bedevil us. jesse was talking about books that i wrote previously. " wrote a book called "enough which is now 12 years old, but we book is about, how come don't see the black community, churches, or the black civil rights groups marching against the drug dealers, or sing to the those thatpecially

don't produce the education that would allow our young people to go on and succeed in life, high dropout rates and the like, why don't we have protests, why don't we see a concentration of effort to say we are going to hold ourselves accountable, we want these goals to improve in terms of quantifiable statistical output, because we care so much and love our children so much. so we are talking about the drug dealers, the school. why are we not saying to young people, it is a mistake to get involved with the criminal justice system. we know exactly who gets the worst end of that stick. so don't ever put yourself in a position where, in fact, you get caught up in the criminal justice system, because it will chew you up and spit you out, damage you. why aren't we seeing to young people -- and this was the conclusion of the book 12 years ago -- why are we not saying

stay in school, get as much education as you can. no matter what you think about the school or the problems of the school. ,et as much education you can whether high school, college, or beyond. secondly, why don't you wait in terms of getting married, until you have finished cool -- school and are established in terms of what you're trying to do professionally? and also why don't you wait in terms of establishing yourself to have children so that you are married, in a career, before you have children? because if you follow those principles -- this is not juan williams speaking but this is statistically, concrete proof -- there is almost no chance that you would live in poverty. you would have a chance to get ,our foot on that first level in terms of the latter of upward mobility in american society.

why are we not saying these things more positively about what you can do to help yourself rather than relying on anyone else. host: since we're on the subject, you talk about the conversation going on in the black community about president obama going down to morehouse college, talking about what you are talking about here, and the conversation that coats had about that. guest: it is very distinct. he says pretty much, here is a back -- black president preaching to let people about black response ability, but somehow not picking up on systemic racism in american society, not point to the larger pillars of society and the difficult history in society. at all the, look problems you heard me talking about earlier, the progress we have made and the progress that allows people like him or juan williams to succeed in american society.

i was saying, president obama was on target. he was on target to say here is a message about what you can do to help people -- yourself and how we need to take response ability in our community not only for ourselves but our families, neighbors, our institutions, churches. so many of us have lived in cities with black mayors, black leadership. why are we not holding ourselves accountable in terms of making progress? we have been blessed in this country to be in more position now where we have some authority and control. i think rather than simply pointing out, which is what is saying,- coates why is he lecturing to our people, he should be lecturing white people. i'm much more in touch with what the caller was saying, which is what can we do to help ourselves?

host: james is calling from reidsville, north carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning and merry christmas. guest: merry christmas to you, sir. caller: i want to ask juan a question. you are a man that has to go on tv to deal with those four people that you are with, shouting you down, controlling the narrative. that is all they are doing. everything is a lie. democrats, a black man top. you are a good man to put up with that. for no amount of money would i do that. thank you. guest: you are welcome. you know, i think at a time when the country is divided politically -- not just talking about the racial division, just

politically -- it is so important we try to get inside the bubble and create conversation, let people hear a different point of view. often times i do feel like, you know what, it is four against one. sometimes you feel like you cannot initially sentence without someone shouting at you. but i think it's really important that nobody tells me what to say, that i get to say what i'm trying to say on some occasions. in fact, people watching or listening can hear a different point of view, and hopefully, at least get an inkling in their mind of something else going on here, and it is not just an echo chamber with one message that people come to understand that there are other americans, good, pg on nick, hard-working people -- patriotic, hard-working people. why are you not understanding that there is pain and a reality

out there that is feeding this division that we see so prominently in american life? i think it is an important role to be there, to offer a different voice, different perspective. i lovede of the things about this book, you not only talk about what is happening in the country today, you sprinkled history throughout the book. not only james meredith, but also a philip randolph. these people up in the conversation about donald trump, what are you try to say to people? guest: this is an important question. people say, when they read the book, it is not like you are doing a new treatment of the history. you are just reminding people of this. i say that's exactly right. when donald trump says what the hell do you have to lose, i'm saying i want to remind everyone of what it took to come this far. , we have faith, but people sacrificed, people died.

people made so many sacrifices in terms of losing jobs, having banks withdraw loans, mortgages, .o stand up for what is right to understand that history, especially for this generation, say, youen, i want to may not know, have an philipation for who a. randolph is, because he lived in the early 20th century, but you should know that without a. philip randolph and the brotherhood of sleeping car porters, we have unions in society. unions were segregated. times people put unions on the left side of the political spectrum. unions are very progressive, all of that. in terms of race, you look at the major unions, especially for , schoollike maids teachers, lots of racial integration. this did not exist in the first heart of the 20th century.

randolph. philip pushing the afl-cio to get them to open up the doors, the idea that people who wanted to be plumbers, people who want to be steelworkers could be people of color, and that women. you can all take it for granted in the 20th century but this is all american history. this is what we have to lose, mr. president. you have to understand there was an a. philip randolph. and because we were in washington, he came up with a challenge to frank and on the roosevelt when he was not willing to integrate the military industries during world war ii. roosevelt agrees and finally calls off the potential for what was thought to be a very disruptive march in washington. randolph carry that idea forward to 1963. it is the basis of the great

march on washington. people sometimes forget the official title of that march was the march for jobs and freedom. ofust want to remind people heroes to my mind -- he is my hero. the sacrifices this man had to make that has allowed us to stand taller at this time. but then there are some people who want to ignore this history, or want to act in an ahistorical manner. why do you want any special preference or consideration? no. it is that we want you to understand the history of where we have come from and what we have had to do in order to achieve in the society. host: if you are ever in washington, d.c., there is a a. philip randolph at union station that you should see whenever you go through. good morning.

one -- tot to make see what we have with illegal people who come over here with their families with the culture of drugs. gete kids come and they their parents was what they are doing in mexico, and right now, we are full of those people here and i support mr. trump because his ideas -- they are the ones that can bring this country better. --ome from mexico for from mexico and i believe we are going the same way that mexico is right now. iso not know why juan

against president trump and always criticizing everything he does. i would with a tell mr. juan that the mathematics is only one thing for -- one thing. mathematic -- and things like mr. juan says all the time, he does not live in the valley and he does not know how we live over here. i do not know why he is party.ing the democratic here in the juan, valley, we have a real problem. in washington, where you are, you do not know what is going on over here. we have someone people that really do not want to work because when you get up from bed, and open your refrigerator

, wehere is the food? there are many people who do not want to work because food stamps are always there. it is a very important question and i take you quite seriously that you see in situations -- guest: a high percentage of the and takemmigrants advantage of entitlement programs that are offered in the in, and i'm going to trust your word that you are giving an accurate depiction of the situation. you to raise your horizon a little bit and understand what i see which is i do not think that is typical of most people who come to this country. i think we will come to this country in general working very hard, wanting to stay and

wanting to be good americans. yes, in certain areas, you may run into people who are just trying to live off of the land or whatever, yes, but you know what -- there are some americans nativeborn who were also in that category and i do not think it is fair and they land of immigrants to set out were set aside people were immigrants and blame them for all the problems that exist. that is why when i was speaking speakingi was about people who come here. issueravan was such a big -- people who are desperate are not invading america, they are seeking asylum as a result of the violence in their own country or a lack of opportunity and their own country and i think they come here with very high aspirations.

is excess which is what you want for your family this christmas, what i want for my children and family, and that is a different horizon. we are great crunch three we can deal with those problems. without saying to people, you are not welcome here, i do not think you would be here. you talked about being from mexico, i do not think you would be here if we had punishing immigration policies in place. said one of our callers earlier that you are usually a lone voice on your show. you actuallyook, promote and the defendant some black conservatives with the trump administration. you say some of the most powerful black, conservative voices have not been invited into this conversation or the trump administration. why do you think they should be in that conversation and what is

the importance of having those voices inside the white house? historically, you go back to eisenhower -- they had black people there who were the highest ranks in the white house to give a different perspective to the president, top aides as they made policy. ins is eisenhower, there 1954 during brown v. board of education, and this is a much more difficult time in terms of race and there was a black person in there. just stickingn, with republicans, black people again in the white house. peoplewith credentials, have had experiences, and people who can offer perspective for their background in terms of race relations and civil rights. you come to george h. w. bush

who died this year and george w. powell,nde rice, colin clarence thomas -- all of these people, black conservatives who are part of the package and part of the intellectual brain trust. you come to this white house, you do not see it. andone exception, omarosa, she leaves in quite this taste, quite angry at the president and then she -- he calls her a dog. our history in this society, calling a black woman a dog has a particularly awful odor to it. to me, it is telling. you saw president george w. bush break records in terms of diversity in his. where is the diversity in this cabinet? acosta -- but in

terms of a who is in the white house able to communicate with him at critical moments, there is a vacuum. there is a chapter talking about mention the and i work done by james baldwin and attentionn gets the of the attorney general, robert ase, you and makes the c feel so good, you are democrat, you think you are doing so much to help the civil rights movement along -- here is why, baldwin said, i think you are failing people. kennedy was offended that he would be told because he felt like he was going on challenging a lot of the dixiecrats in his own party and white segregationists in the party. baldwin gets people like leno and otherorne

famous black celebrities and you see this interaction. arks and hers of sp feelings, but what you see is that kennedy learns from this experience and takes it back in terms of actual implementation of policy at the justice department and coming from the white house. where is that kind of presence, that interaction in this white house? i say it is shockingly absent and the contributes to the idea president is not only isolated in terms of the fartical divisions, but so removed from a reality of people of color in american society today. host: that was part of your book that i had never heard before, the meeting between baldwin and bobby kennedy and it was not a happy meeting. some people got up and walked out. guest: right. it is ann if

uncomfortable conversation, you think those conversations are necessary at the highest level of government. guest: well, absolutely. they are necessary on television, in our lives, and this is the kind of thing where you push yourself to be better and you push your neighbors adn capacity notur own only for understanding but for bar inent to raising the terms of what we can accomplish in society. when that is absent, you get people falling back into old 'let'nd saying 'let;s -- s go back.' louise on theto democrat line. good morning. hello. caller: hello mr. williams, merry christmas to you.

i wanted to ask you, why do we have to write a book about what is going on now in america? people toough of our educate our black youngsters now. my going to tell you, i'm in 70's. listened to the radio way back when, and they did not have a degree. they understood what was going on. er -- grandfather was an indian. in stepfather worked with world war i. my step would tell us all about

world war i. they would tell us what was going on in the world. we have to listen. and i have been a politician ever since i could remember. coming up at the time, i did not white,ack form -- from we were not involved in all of that stuff. would give people sugar, whoever came into her house. that is the way we was raised, but we were raised to listen. now, i can understand. phillipsalking about a randolph. it seems like our people stop talking about all of this. guest: i could not agree more.

you were just talking about because you see toerations telling stories the newer generations and communicating that history in such an effective way that it becomes a part of your family life and legacy. i love that. you asked, why did you write this book, we just need to listen more? well i hope that we need to read more, too, because it serves as a reminder. whatountry, i do not care race you are or region you are living in, needs to be reminded of what you were talking about. your grandfather in world war i and what it meant in terms of segregation in the military, you can talk about it in terms of the difficulties in terms of employment, education in this country. these are stories that are not to be ignored. have a new african-american

history museum in washington and it is the number one museum right now in the city for a very real reason. it is a counter to the idea that, oh, it can be difficult to bring up that history of this combination -- discrimination, that wasand violence used, but we need to listen as you were saying, when need to read, and we need to remember. ook, theritten this b person who most need to remember is our leader, the president. host: the senate report just came out that says that the russians targeted african-american voters through social media. i want to get your opinion on that. you, right to ask now, unemployment forever to

americans is extremely low, historically speaking. not as low as everyone else but low historically speaking. those president trump get credit? guest: let's go in reverse order. whenever he is, questioned about the difficult relationship he has with black americans, he says, what are you talking about, black unemployment is at historic lows. i find this so destructive because in fact, black unemployment was 17% when barack came to office after the recession in in 2008, 2009 period. or something.2% like that. the way that president trump talks you would think, oh, president trump brought it down from 17%. in fact, president obama brought

it down from 70% to 7% and president trump has brought it -- president obama 7%ught it down from 17% to and president robert brought it down from some percent to 5.2%. to me, it is ridiculous. -- yougive him credit have to say, ok, fine, but is ant somehow to be used as excuse for all of the divisiveness and nasty comments and saying that nfl players are as so -- nfl players are sob's? at some point, you have to say, that is odd. when a diversionary tactic he did not do most of the heavy lifting. the russians -- this is an

interesting thing because i think it shows you how susceptible we are when we are divided. americans, do not seek common density and purpose, the russians have properly cts anded us as subje vulnerable when it comes to division. this is so intriguing. only were negative about black people to white people, they were negative to white people to black people. they would say to black people, especially the black lives matter movement, and they would work in essence to say, you really do not have any reason to vote for hillary clinton. hillary clinton has not isisfied you are -- or not doing enough for you. that was the desired outcome they were after.

on the other hand, they are saying to the white people, you need to come out and vote because these black people and immigrants are coming in and stirring trouble. they're playing both sides of this racial divide to their advantage and they wanted to be liked president trump. his: lets go to fred to calling from north carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. williams for your insightful discussion. guest: thank you. caller: i am originally from india and i am now a naturalized u.s. citizen. my children were born in the u.s. i would like to ask you about something -- get your opinion. immigrant from india, i fully sympathize with the -- of the black

, however, nowadays like you mentioned in your discussion , things have changed. aack america has risen lot and my son who is in high school, he has highly intelligent black students who are his friends, and they come from many black families, and very well taken care of. however, good thing, this is where i become disturbed. just because my son is asian, could be discriminated just because of his race, and his friend, who is black and also intelligent and comes from a

get-to-do black family, may privilege. don't you think it is unfair should ben discriminated against just because of his race? if it was just about race , i think it would be unfair. again, you have to understand that race in this country was used as a disadvantage for most .f our history the black child could not get into most colleges and universities and subsequently jobs because of race. there has been a counter effort to try to correct the mistakes of the past. but living in this moment, you my child at asn't disadvantage even if my child is a superior student and as superior capability, why

shouldn't that be at -- acknowledged? your child is, one, may go into the very good sc hool. the other thing i would say is keep in mind, we still have the biggest subject of discriminati comes withthat decisions in legacies. did your dad or mom go to that school? i would also add to your child is an athlete or musician, again, tremendous advantage in terms of getting into those schools because the admission officers are seeking to have all of those talents represented in their incoming class. there is so many elements at play. like you, a number of parents

worry that their child might be disadvantaged simply on a racial basis. you may have followed all of the diversity about elizabeth warren, the senator from massachusetts and her back ground, and was that used by harvard law school to advertise themselves as more diverse than they were. this is a place of a persistent grievance. so many more factors at play, but it is interesting to me -- we always come back to race in american society. viewers tweeted a question and they asked me to ask you if they think of that reading your book will improve race relations or stoke the anger of black haters? guest: oh, no. this comes from a place in my hoping thatre i am

people open their heart in order to have conversations and have policies that he'll= and bring us together. and bring us together. you cannot ignore history and you cannot ignore what we have done as a society. what we have done in terms of improving race relations and opportunities in this society. living up to all men being created equal and protecting those rights. that is where this book comes from. talk aboutard jesse the history in near, it is the reminder of the heroic effo rts made it to raise us up. it is in that spirit. it is not about attacking gore being hateful. i think it is about being something of a remedy. host: harry calling from pittsburgh on the republican line.

good morning. here.: i see mr. williams williams, just one american? that was your child, you would feel different. mr. williams said, there is a bunch of people being killed by other people. again, it is not your child. you are doing everything you can to cause race division in this country. un's don lemon remind me of the same. you are both despicable racists, and hate white people. on unemployment and elizabeth warren is one thing, so i do not know why fox keeps you on. host: i will let you respond to that. guest: i sense a lot of anger in

the caller. [laughter] i do not know what he is talking about. my, it anything happens to child or your child, my heart goes out. what we are talking about here is something we have to do -- that has to do with us in american society. if you make judgments on one person's behavior, are you going to make tremendous mistakes because it is not speak to us as american people who live in california, new york, texas, illinois, and you are going to see all kind of different situations come to the fore. we have a high rate of incarceration in this country, does it mean we are all criminals? i do not think so. that is the difference here. someone'salk about child was killed by an immigrant, yes, my heart goes out. that is a terrible thing.

but is that then the basis of talk about immigrants as all criminals? i think that is so unfair. do not support your perspective on this. fact, in terms of the violent crime, the higher rate of is by nativeborn people than by immigrants. i think you understand the distortions used by politicians to try to stir you up. it is a radical distortion of the reality of american life today. host: shakira calling from trenton, new jersey on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. the thing that frustrates me so badly is the challenge we have in defining what it is we are

talking about. , you given the that you have on fox news, i think you contribute to the confusion by not being very specific and clear about what it is you are talking about when it comes to race. i think there is a very specific distinction between racism and bigotry and prejudice. bigotry and prejudice our personal feelings, personal attitudes, personal perceptions of an idea that one person has about others. racism on the other hand is a power dynamic and it was set up in this country at the beginning to privilege and advantage one group of people over others. rootss what is that the of the challenges that we experience in this country as african-americans and minorities

of all stripes. when i say minorities, i mean nonwhite people. acknnk the refusal to owledge those distinctions keep the confusion in place and make it impossible for us to sort out what is bigotry and prejudice, which if you do not like me because i'm black, that is your problem, not mine -- but if you set up a situation where the zip code that i live in is diminished in value and so i theot get loans to reflect improvements that i have made in my property, that as a structural condition that then myults in the schools that children go to in that zip code do not have the salaries, the

s, theng expert books, the facilities that my children are able to get and that is the zip code where gun flow is allowed to happen. community where guns come across the river from pennsylvania into new jersey regularly. and there is not really anything at the police can do about that. that there is so many guns in my community is what results in the crime in my community. clear andit very specific about the structural issues. who cares who hates who in the end? i do not mean to say that lightly, meaning that that is an optimal situation, but in the end, if i can do with my life what i want to do with it, i do not really care who does not like me because of the way i look or the texture of my hair. me, what we are boiling down to, and i think i

am very clear on this by the way, i think you are talking about the argument that jesse and i were talking about earlier about why is president obama talking down the black people -- whatsays, we need to you have described as a stomach racism, things like the zip code issue where people are born -- systemic racism, things like the zip code issue or people are born in certain areas. , versus theguns argument that says, let's take more personal responsibility in terms of improving our own community. let's do what we can with what we have at this moment to raise ourselves and our children up to the next level. is a very important argument actually inside the black community at this moment.

int is why i referenced this this book. but on a larger level, we have to be very careful that even as we make a very strong argument about persistent, systemic this nationstemic discrimi as in experiencing the kind of crime and criminal activity, drug activity and the like that more boehner bolt of failure and falling down in american society, not achieving maximum outcomes in life, we have to be careful that we do not somehow do away with our own power to make a difference. say, just as a dad sitting on christmas morning, i would never say to mic is, we have to wait until all of the systemic racism is done away

before you can achieve the good in your life. i would say, we can work on the as we aressue, but doing that, you need to take responsibility and do the best you can. that is what i would say to my children. there is an argument about zaidi andacism into an argument about personal responsibility. i do not see it as being an either/or situation. thatnk it is a situation you achieve greater power, you have a greater voice in terms of uesling with systemic iss that disadvantage the black community or any community for that matter. host: let's get one more person in, let's go to mike from arkansas. caller: how are you? host: good. caller: what do we have to lose?

i am a veteran and he is losing all of our rights. he is trying to take everything from us. us everythingave and this idiot is taking everything that we have. but i was raised in the military. this is not what i thought four. this guide is a communist, a racist, so many things. i live around these people and their mental midgets, too. they cannot see what they are doing and that is just disgusting. i thank you for taking my call. guest: you are welcome. i think sometimes, it is hard to understand why some people close their eyes to these situations. me and again, to it contributes to the divisions we have in american society, but on this christmas morning, talking to you as a veteran and maybe,not understanding

some of these attitudes may start to shift. saw the secretary of defense james mattis recently resigned and expressed his discontent with this president. i wonder if some people who have previously been in trump's camp might now be having second thoughts because a lot of people are concerned that someone as credentialed as mattis would depart and then have trump come back and not even say, you are going to leave at the end of february, but i want you out now . people might start to say, something is not right. some of the to see republicans, especially in change hill behind jesse their attitude, it might be a point of radical shift in terms of the political division in american society. host: tell us who robert weaver

is and why you had him in his book. you know you can drive by the housing and urban development building in washington dc, and the name of the building is robert weaver this has and particular resonance because our president is a real estate developer. robert weaver was that economist and going back to fdr and so forth with someone who was talking about housing discrimination. he was talking about the need to break down things like restrictive covenants that limited the ability of people of color to move into white neighborhoods, integrated neighborhoods. hethen, not only pushed, pushed to the point that he was instrumental in terms of the 1964 civil rights act, having in there provisions that banned minations, and

he was the first african-american secretary of the department of housing and urban development. that presidentng trump was sued for housing discrimination in the 1960's and 1970's? they had a huge settlement and the man who was behind the push to save the government has to enforce equal riper people in terms of housing, robert weaver. host: we would like to thank juan williams, the author of "what the hell do you have to lose? trump's war on civil rights." merry christmas to you. guest: merry christmas and a thank you for having me. will coming up next, we open the phone lines and go back to our original question, do support giving ex-convicts a second chance? if your answer is yes, call (202) 748-8000, no, (202)

748-8001, and if you experience of the criminal justice system, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪ saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, conversations with three retiring members of congress. they all discuss losing their reelection bids and reflecting on their time in congress. >> we go on our devices and we want things quickly. wrote this 14rson years after he wrote the declaration of independence. he wrote, the ground of liberty is to be gained by inches. we must eternally press forward to get. it takes time to persuade men even to do it for their own good. my point is, we culturally need to step back and say, these things take time and we have to take small steps to get there.

>> to think that we have a spend wars and on these the war of is going on 18 years, i think it is just ridiculous. and ouralso, these wars foreign policy has caused us to have more enemies than we would have had. of the unitedress states, i believe in the house isrepresentatives there simply, even with the reforms that nancy pelosi's pledged to accept based on counterparts, there is too much hands witho human too little done for the american people. conversations with retiring members of congress, saturday at 8:00 p.m. on c-span and c-span.org and listen with the free c-span radio app. c-span, where history unfolds

daily. 19 79, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable-television companies. to bring youtinue unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington dc and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. "washington journal" continues. are going to open the phone lines and go back to our original question from this morning which was, do you support giving ex-convicts a second chance? this is coming behind the passage of the first step legislation which does some changes to federal prison totencing and some changes

not only in sentencing but allowing some federal prisoners to get out of jail early. let's go to john was coming from west virginia, and john says yes. caller: how are you? host: just fine. es, especiallyy if an individual has done their time and back in society. i think it would be so important for them to be a productive citizen in society and for that reason, just being able to vote is so important. i want to thank mr. juan williams for the wonderful job he did this morning. i truly appreciate what he gives to america with his voice. we were on the air, president donald trump has tweeted out a christmas message that says, merry christmas.

just want to make sure that we got that on air for everyone. fred calling from texas,. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: just fine, go ahead. caller: i want to think of the service you do our communities. lesseninghe plan on the senses of prison time. two reasons. do not take this the wrong way. i think it was done racistly, and that is the reason why 40 are40% of our prisons black, and they want to appease the black community. if i was a black guy, i am a white guy, i would want those guys who create problems kept out of my community.

and most of those guys are for drugs. i personally believe they have drugs,legalize most however, the folks who are in the drugs are the dealers and users. how do we control that if we let them out of jail? forr 95% recidivism convicts, that is a pretty high price to pay and when they are let out early for specific reasons, i think they're going to create problems back within their own communities. williams is a great guy, fine husband, find -- fine father, and i do not agree with his positions, but a fine man. i hope i did not stir up any me -- i amt, but to 76 euros old, and i am really concerned with where we are at

-- i am 76 years old. i am really concerned with where we are at. steve calling to from new jersey. listen, back in the 1970's, i got caught with a bag of marijuana which would not be a big deal nowadays, but the judge told me, you can join the marine corps, or keep this on the record and go to jail. so i joined the marines, i made sergeant, and i was a productive citizen and have been a truck driver for 30 years. the one we have now is the biggest criminal of the whole bunch, our president. agan, during the 1980's, had a secret war going in central america and this was on the history channel -- they

were hauling in planeloads of cocaine at the height of the drug war. everybody else got death sentences and life in prison for the things they were doing. the biggest criminals we got going right now are the ones running our country -- the republican party mostly, and the biggest crook in the white house right now. let's go to jerry calling from mississippi. good morning. caller: good morning. host: where is smithdale? miles: it is about 90 from his jackson, south of jackson. host: i just had to know. go ahead. i am a my point is, civil rights activist in the

naacp for 40 years. i work with a lot of ex-cons and when they become a member, it changes their whole life. come to beem have pretty productive citizens in the community. that iwant to say -- our peoplecan would calm to the naacp and just do a membership, i know that it would make a difference. i want to thank you for allowing me to speak on this the half. you have a merry christmas and a happy new year. thank you. host: let's go to roscoe calling from virginia. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. host: go ahead. yes, i just wanted to

say that i believe that we should give second chances. workers second chances who have admitted crimes and it is a good -- who have mes.itted cri that is what we are about and we should be proud of the fact that giving those that have the opportunity have been given a second chance. it. is my thing on a secondactually have tweets coming from the white house with a video message from the president. it says, merry christmas from president donald trump and flotus. we will see we can get that up for you. [video clip] pres. trump: and a very happy, happy new year. season,g the christmas

we come together with family and friends in hope, love, and compassion. -- god came in one holy night. birth ofating the jesus christ and his wonderful season brings out the best in the american spirit. and we see neighbors helping neighbors. host: that was a video message from the president and the first lady saying merry christmas to the united states. to our question about should convicts get a second chance. southcalling from carolina. a law-enforcement officer for over 30 years, the experience i have with people in the drug industry is when they get caught, that is not their first go round. that was their lifestyle. they had their chances before

they were caught and sentenced to prison. you know and i know how much, plea negotiations and brakes are given to people who are incarcerated, therefore, that as their second and third and fourth chance right there. them outnt to let early because in the name of a second chance? i could not disagree with that more. , where you local police, sheriff, or in a prison system? guest: sheriff -- caller: sheriff. there some crimes that you saw were you would think that people should get a second chance? caller: usually, second chances ought to be given to more so people in the youth.

i would not have a problem with that and a lot of them are extended to the youth through special programs whether it be where the -- i mean, victims are made whole again, down, they apologize to their victims, they get first-hand experience in the affects that their crimes have whether it be through vandalisms or thefts or things like that. we are talking about grown men who knew better who are making their living doing this and you were subsidizing either their families order lifestyles doing this. they had their chances and they knew better. do not deserve a chance"quote, "second when they had chances all their life.

in prisonem, they are because of their second, third, offenses.d fifth suggest theould you country does about to the overcrowded prison system? how do we resolve that problem? guest: biltmore -- prisons.uild more i worked 12 years in our and 22 years in homicide and violent, crime so i have seen both sides. pity. drug offenders no ellen calling to from indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. 84 year old white, christian woman who would like

to explain that the problems that juan talked about has to do with this problem. onegovernment is not the that can solve our problems of what happens with people who commit crimes. when i was growing up, if you had a problem, you went to the down andd they sat talked about what the problem was and how to correct it. i want to make one more -- we do thing about not have a racial problem. we have a political problem because back, years ago, i listened to all harvey, -- harvey, whoi paul , and talkedhost about the fact that they

russia wanted to have full government controls to traits it tountry and she was believe in socialism, communism, and that is what the democratic party has largely become. is not racism, our problem is we need to get back to god and having the 10 commandments in our schools, and to haveng the ability prayer in schools taken out. our caller go to from florida. pronounce your name for me. eldine. host: go right ahead. believe in giving them a second chance because everyone deserves a second chance biblically. pardon me?

host: weakening area. -- we can hear you. caller: i believe everyone should deserve a second chance and talking about drugs, we have to remember -- it is higher cartels. artls --he higher c cartels to stop, give them better jobs. those who are adamant about doing crime does not want a the other,ce, but honest people who need a chance -- need to do better and want to do better, give them a chance. as human beings, we need to get back to the roots of the basics of love, understanding, not hate. hate is bring us down. -- bringing us down.

host: let's go to new jersey. caller: no problem. good morning and merry christmas to you. men and womenhat who have been incarcerated should be given a second chance. of the major reasons why second chances may not work as that there is such a in the psychological support for emotional adjustment individual has become a incarcerated and they are affected by the crime that they have done and even when they come to the consciousness of it, being able to readjust to a new society is very difficult for them. i believe that our societies are not ready to accept people and

bring people in, so with that being said, i believe that as they are reentered into our communities, that we have to make sure that they are getting the psychological support that they need in order to get a better understanding of themselves and where they are. job training, education is important. host: what is your experience with the criminal justice system? guest: -- caller: i work as a chaplain in a prison. i am not a bleeding heart, i am a realist. because then men, social, economic situations, felt forced to do certain things because their backs were against the wall. however, i do believe if they are given another chance in better mindset, they would be able to cope better. host: do you see these men that

you minister to, do they take personal responsibility for what they have done or do they all blame society? work in artunately, i state that has a good system that men takegram to bring them to the knowledge of what they have done and i've seen men really write essays and paragraphs o on the remors that they have end and no, they are not blaming everyone. -- on the remorse that they have and the, they are not blaming everyone. they felt like as soon as they go out the door, they're going to go back to what they are doing before because they do not see any hope and there are going to be those that you cannot tell. the majority, i do believe that men and women that are reentered do want to come back

and be productive. host: let's go to gerard who is e,ming from larsvill georgia. caller: i was a teenage crook. that is my experience. when i was a teenager, i did something that followed me. i am 77. jobst at least four that i know of. the problem, you have to get rid of their records are they will never be able to get a job. employerjobs with one -- that record follows you all your life. old, and its follows me all my life and i had good jobs. intarted writing software 1960. thatit used to be

companies would not officially tell people but they would whisper people to it, they did not want to be sued. but the record is the problem. thehey cannot get rid of record, they cannot keep a job or get a better one. host: let's go to karen calling from leesburg, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i was on the fence with this, but i did call in on the no line. if you commit murder, there is no second chances. if you allow your mind to go from zero to 1000 to take an individual, there is no exceptions and no excuse. j but when you are talking about drugs, i just watched a really great segment. america has a drug problem. you have more people incarcerated for dealing drugs than the people who use.

if you look of a number of americans, mostly white americans, who have a blanket drug problem, they will spend less time in drugs than the person who dealt drugs. they are not even in jail long enough to go through rehab and they are going back to the dealer who is going to spend 10 years to life dealing half gram of heroin. either make the sentence is the same, the drug abusers spend as much time as the dealer or you go ahead and you make it a problem where you identify it as a problem and you think of solutions. but you cannot have it both ways. that is why our prison systems are full of black and brown people because they are dealing to white america who was in and out of jail for two days or less. then we wonder why we've were a problem with the criminal justice system. an insatiablehas

appetite for drugs that they will only buy from minorities on the street. host: we would like to thank all of our guests today and would like to thank you for starting your christmas morning with us. i would also like to say, happy christmas to my wife, son, and daughter and all of my family back in mississippi. tune in again with "washington journal" will have bloomberg's jenny leonard. scholaralso have legal to discuss a new book, "the case against impeaching trump." merry christmas and happy holidays and i hope you a great christmas day. we will see you tomorrow. ♪

[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] day and comingas up on c-span, britain's queen elizabeth delivers her annual christmas message. then remarks by peace corps director joey olson followed by a look back at the memorial ladyces for former first barbara bush, senator john mccain, and former president george h.w. bush. >> saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, conversations with three retiring members of congress. republicans peter roskam, john and discussy cop losing their reelection bids and reflect on the time in congress. >> we go on our app or our devices and what things quickly this 14erson wrote years after he wrote the declaration of independence --

he said the ground of liberty is to be gained by inches. we must be content what we can get from time to time and eternally press forward for what is yet to get. it takes time to persuade men even if it's for their own good. my point is that we culturally look,o step back and say these things take time, we have to take small steps in order to get there. >> would have spent trillions on these wars and the one afghanistan is now going on for 18 years. i think it's just ridiculous and i think also, these awards at -- these wars in our foreign policy of causes to have more enemies than we would have had an done more harm than good. >> in the congress of the united states, i believe in the house of representatives, there is still in with the reforms that nancy pelosi has pledged to accept based on my counterparts in the problem solving caucus,

there is too much power and too too little and getting done for the american people and i fear that will not change. -- watchcongress conversations with retiring members of congress. saturday at 8:00 p.m. congress will have over 100 new members of the house and senate. five represent the state of virginia democrat elaine luria was elected to the second congressional district which is home to a number of military institutions. she is a naval academy graduate and one of the first women to attend the u.s. naval nuclear power school. she retired from the navy in 2017 and she and her husband now own a boutique called the mermaid factory which sells mermaid and dolphin figurines. in the fifth district, ggelneck isdenver ri

a national security contractor. toretired from intelligence run a distillery. he dropped out of the previous race. the other republican is ben klein who early in his career served as chief of staff to the man he succeeds in virginia's sixth congressional district. also once ran a sales and marketing firm in addition to being a public prosecutor and attorney in private practice and has served in the virginia house of delegates since 2002. democrat abigail spanberger will -- is a former postal inspector and cia officer and later worked for a company now called eab enrollment services which helps colleges and universities develop more diverse student bodies and democrat jennifer

wexton was elected to the 10th congressional district and has served as a public prosecutors and attorney in private practice. she was elected to the virginia senate in 2013. the new congress, new leaders, watch it all on c-span. the c-span buzz recently traveled to florida asking folks , what does it mean to be american. >> it means having the opportunity to have access to a new life. done for the bill of rights and the constitution. solution -- at citizenship to be a person who believes in others and be helpful must a have their potential to go as far as they can and bring somebody else up as you go along the path. >> it means freedom of speech especially now more than ever. i think we should continue our youth and young adults to express themselves and their

opinions and do with the need to do to make the changes we need for our country. >> to me at means being able to have the opportunity and the chance to pursue your dreams and goals. community, born and raised and i would like to a comp of something for my city so i can better serve my city. that's what you can do as well and that's what americans can do as americans. >> to be an american, i got to run for office and represent my friends and neighbors and make policies about what is good for all americans. it's great to be an american because it gives me the freedom to be what i want to be, to become whatever i am intent on becoming. -- i'm a vice mayor in florida. my experience as a lecture official has taught me a great deal about our government. it has taught me that to be an andican means to understand

cherish our constitution. one of the propensities that the geniuses who wrote our constitution were aware of was that power tends to aggregate and the wisdom of the constitution is to divide power so as to allow individuals to continue to have freedom and liberty. that freedom and liberty is essential in allowing your particular human energy to make a positive impact on your community. that is what i think about being an american. >> voices from the road on c-span. next, queen elizabeth roman to -- ii delivers her christmas messages that dates back to 1932 with a radio address by king george the fifth. queen elizabeth made the first televised