when the new congress takes office in january, it will have the youngest, most diverse freshman class in recent history. new congress, new leaders, watch it live on c-span, starting january 3. we are back with juan williams, the author of "what the hell do you have to lose? trumps war on civil rights." >> thank you. >> the title refers to comments president trump made during the 2016 campaign. let's listen to what he said. e said. rejection, horrible education, no housing, no homes, no ownership, crime at levels nobody has seen. you can go to war zones in countries we are fighting and it is safer than living in some of our later cities that are run by the democrats.

i ask you this -- i ask you this. crime, all of the problems. to the african-americans who i employ so many, so many people. to the hispanics, tremendous people. what the hell do you have to lose? give me a chance. i will straighten it out. i will straighten it out. host: so, what made you choose that, what the hell do we have to lose, for the title of your book? guest: i thought it was such a condescending statement. the president is 72, i'm 64. we have lived to such amazing change in american society with regard to that essential problem of race, in my lifetime in his lifetime. in the book, i mentioned things like the first black president, obviously. that kind of stands out.

then you could go on and talk about things like the first chairman of the chiefs of staff colin powell, people in the arts, ludicrous, denzel washington, rising to the top of american culture, american athletes. but the signal events are really the rise of the black middle class, and secondly, the rise of the block google voice. all of this has happened in my life, incredible civil rights movement. and he has the audacity to say to people, black people, what the hell do you have to lose? i think he was not really speaking to blacks and latinos, i think he was using that as a cover as he was speaking to a mostly white audience in michigan, in a rural area, saying to them, you know what, the conditions in those minority communities are so awful, he

likened it to living in afghanistan. he said there were so much drugs, crime, trash in the streets of a bad schools, no economic activity. i think he was saying to that mostly white audience, i'm your hero, i will stand in the breach against people who are a threat to you, people who would mug you, take your jobs, demand affirmative action, be rude to you. i will stand in the breach because the demographic changes going on in this country are in -- threatening. i think he was making a very strong racial argument. for me, when we think about president trump and the divisiveness, fragmentation of american society, attack on immigrants, when he says what the hell do you have to lose, we have to understand it for what , a critical statement about race in 2018 and going forward. host: those comments were made during his campaign. he is two years into the

presidency. has anything changed in your opinion about him? guest: obviously, we have his policies. one of the things i have done in the book is not just talk about what he did during the campaign and is very controversial and condescendings a statement, ignorant of american history and the progress we have made on the race relations front , but to talk about actual policy. for example, if you talk about something so critical that the moment, black lives matter, what does the movement have to do with? it has to do with police reality, police killings in our states, typically in poor, black neighborhoods. here you have an administration that pursued a policy that said we are opposed to consent decrees between leased apartments and those communities. we are not encouraging them. we are on doing what was done previously. aboutink recently

something like affirmative action in terms of college admissions. again, what is the administration policy? we think this discriminates against people who are white, and specifically, asian, in terms of emissions to school. ,ecently we have seen again after the parkland shooting, they do a study. the study does not speak to gun violence, it does not even speak to the kinds of issues we are seeing in parkland. instead, it says we think the black students, in efforts to lessen suspensions of those students, because they are disproportionate, are misguided, and contribute to violence in schools. was the shooter a black person? no. why would you make this into a racial issue? when you asked me what has changed from the campaign, which famously started on that escalator talking about mexican rapists, they don't send us our best people, to today, i would

say it is the actual policies. that is what i wrote the book. i know you are from mississippi. it is the actual policies and the actual history, mr. president. here is james meredith, a mississippian, who put himself on the line to integrate the university of mississippi. the sacrifices made by people like bob moses in the south, in terms of voter registration, contrary to this administration's effort to claim voter fraud, to suppress minority turnout and votes. some of your views on trump in your book -- i want to read a little bit of it. he intentionally puts on blinders because he finds comfort in political advantage and seeing a distantly different reality. he want to see black failure and misery. that view justifies his distaste for black people. some might say it's racism.

he locks eyes on the worst of black american life because it makes him and other white people into victims of the trouble in black neighborhoods. he is the hero defending whites against the approaching barbarians. explain to us what you mean by that. have been talking about the tremendous change, the progress america has made in terms of race relations over the last 70 years, his lifetime, certainly close to my lifetime. i think to myself -- i was in church the other day. my church is overwhelmingly black. i thought, donald trump, if he came into this church, would not understand these people. it is representative of the fact of blackk 40% plus americans earn between $35,000 and $100,000 a year. an additional 12% earned $100,000 and $200,000 a year. you have more than half of black america either in the middle

class or beyond the american middle class. these are people who are strivers. they don't necessarily have well in terms of a lot of real estate, bonds, stocks -- no. but in terms of people who get up in education, hard work, making something better for the next generation, this is black america, this is reality. trumpet instead focuses on the 25% that he sees locked in poverty, disproportionate in black communities. he focuses there on high incarceration rates in terms of the black community, and he makes that the whole. whoreality in his mind of black people, immigrants, latinos are. it is like the latinos and killing what people. this guy is guilty of violence, this guy ran a red white. that is his image. as opposed to people working three jobs, family living together until someone can or to

buy a house. that reality, which is not just today butof america sort of our aspiration and american dream, that you can, and work hard, you can come from the ugliest circumstances, but we are the land of opportunity and we welcome people who want to work hard. i think he is out of touch of that reality and is much more the manhattan developer who theed to move into hierarchy of new york society, the elite, the people on wall avenue people on madison , media organizations. these are the people he wanted to associate with. he didn't see any latinos, blacks, immigrants in those ranks, and he sees everyone not in those ranks as pretenders and maybe even as a bother to people in the upper reaches of american society. host: this is not your first book.

you also wrote a biography about thurgood marshall. you are a busy person, you are a lot of places. what made this so important that you felt this need to be written now? guest: this is to me where we are in race relations today. this is the hot/cold burning right now. stop and think about it. it is 10 years, 2018, but it was 2008 that barack obama was elected president of the united states, the first black president. trump an aside, remember, was making the burglar argument that this guy is not a real american and an illegitimate resident. but this moment 10 years after we elect the first black president, we are locked into a high level of division. if you look at the polls, they indicate most americans now -- 60% of americans now think racial relations are negative.

they don't approve of the way trump is handling race relations --the united dates -- estate and i think this is the most incredible part. to me, if you are calling somebody a racist, they shut down. they mayuncomfortable, think that you are going to call them a racist. if you are a black person, you have a chip on your shoulder, if you are a white person -- so most stay away from it. right now, most pollsters say that donald trump is a racist. i was amazed by that. the reason i had to write this, it does create some discomfort, but we have to be informed in order to move forward. to try to heal some of the divisions that have been created by this president, who uses the divisions, i think, to fuel his political base, and drive them. to me, it is poisonous. ultimately for the society. host: let's let the viewers join

in on the conversation. if you are a republican, we want you to call in on (202) 748-8001 . democrats, (202) 748-8000. , (202) 748-8002. you can always reach us on social media on facebook [video clip] --facebook.com/cspan and twitter, @cspanwj. you talk about the meetings between president trump and the hse bu, and the results of those meetings. tell us what you think the result of that meeting was. why not meeting came about and what has come about since. guest: this is an interesting story and i'm glad you brought it up. i think it ties into 10 years after president obama, here comes president trump and we see division. president trump and his associates, including the

education secretary betsy devos, reach out to the hsbc you president obama was black but he did not really do much, he did not pay specific attention and give you the help with financial issues that historical black colleges and universities were, in distress. they came thinking, we are going to get more assistance from this president, even though they understood that he was pointing out barack obama's inadequacies in his mind. op in the ovalto office, he is sitting there, they are all around the great desk. the promise was there would be additional aid. just as we sit here this morning, that aid never materialized. there have been some increases in pell grant's, disproportionate number of are recipients but in terms of the kind of financial

aid they were anticipating, it never materialized and a lot of them feel they got used. in fact, that is the language they use to talk, we were there as a prop for a photo opportunity that allow the president to claim lack support. -- black support. let's go to george in austin, illinois. on the democratic line. caller: good morning. mr. williams, i am a democrat and i also watch fox news, so i .o see you quite often i like watching it but i must say, i'm 625 years old and as i look back and observe whether it is republicans or democrats, i notice i still don't understand -- i'm african-american we do have problems in the african

community, socially and economically. these problems need to be addressed. feel it should not be the african-american community that does most of the lift in addressing these problems. i kind of stay away from the ise thing because race always going to be here, as far as i'm concerned. that is the way god created it. but what are we going to do in the african-american community to really come together and start addressing these social and economic issues that we have? guest: i appreciate your question. comment. i think it speaks to a lot of very difficult issues, that you cannot wait on the government, you cannot wait on others, you cannot wait on big foundations or politicians in general to come in. insideas to be attention

the black community to issues that continue to bedevil us. jesse was talking about books that i wrote previously. " wrote a book called "enough which is now 12 years old, but we book is about, how come don't see the black community, churches, or the black civil rights groups marching against the drug dealers, or sing to the those thatpecially don't produce the education that would allow our young people to go on and succeed in life, high dropout rates and the like, why don't we have protests, why don't we see a concentration of effort to say we are going to hold ourselves accountable, we want these goals to improve in terms of quantifiable statistical output, because we care so much and love our children so much. so we are talking about the drug dealers, the school.

why are we not saying to young people, it is a mistake to get involved with the criminal justice system. we know exactly who gets the worst end of that stick. so don't ever put yourself in a position where, in fact, you get caught up in the criminal justice system, because it will chew you up and spit you out, damage you. why aren't we seeing to young people -- and this was the conclusion of the book 12 years ago -- why are we not saying stay in school, get as much education as you can. no matter what you think about the school or the problems of the school. ,et as much education you can whether high school, college, or beyond. secondly, why don't you wait in terms of getting married, until you have finished cool -- school and are established in terms of what you're trying to do professionally? and also why don't you wait in terms of establishing yourself

to have children so that you are married, in a career, before you have children? because if you follow those principles -- this is not juan williams speaking but this is statistically, concrete proof -- there is almost no chance that you would live in poverty. you would have a chance to get ,our foot on that first level in terms of the latter of upward mobility in american society. why are we not saying these things more positively about what you can do to help yourself rather than relying on anyone else. host: since we're on the subject, you talk about the conversation going on in the black community about president obama going down to morehouse college, talking about what you are talking about here, and the conversation that coats had about that. guest: it is very distinct. he says pretty much, here is a

back -- black president preaching to let people about black response ability, but somehow not picking up on systemic racism in american society, not point to the larger pillars of society and the difficult history in society. at all the, look problems you heard me talking about earlier, the progress we have made and the progress that allows people like him or juan williams to succeed in american society. i was saying, president obama was on target. he was on target to say here is a message about what you can do to help people -- yourself and how we need to take response ability in our community not only for ourselves but our families, neighbors, our institutions, churches. so many of us have lived in cities with black mayors, black leadership. why are we not holding ourselves accountable in terms of making progress?

we have been blessed in this country to be in more position now where we have some authority and control. i think rather than simply pointing out, which is what is saying,- coates why is he lecturing to our people, he should be lecturing white people. i'm much more in touch with what the caller was saying, which is what can we do to help ourselves? host: james is calling from reidsville, north carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning and merry christmas. guest: merry christmas to you, sir. caller: i want to ask juan a question. you are a man that has to go on tv to deal with those four people that you are with, shouting you down, controlling the narrative. that is all they are doing.

everything is a lie. democrats, a black man top. you are a good man to put up with that. for no amount of money would i do that. thank you. guest: you are welcome. you know, i think at a time when the country is divided politically -- not just talking about the racial division, just politically -- it is so important we try to get inside the bubble and create conversation, let people hear a different point of view. often times i do feel like, you know what, it is four against one. sometimes you feel like you cannot initially sentence without someone shouting at you. but i think it's really important that nobody tells me what to say, that i get to say what i'm trying to say on some occasions. in fact, people watching or

listening can hear a different point of view, and hopefully, at least get an inkling in their mind of something else going on here, and it is not just an echo chamber with one message that people come to understand that there are other americans, good, pg on nick, hard-working people -- patriotic, hard-working people. why are you not understanding that there is pain and a reality out there that is feeding this division that we see so prominently in american life? i think it is an important role to be there, to offer a different voice, different perspective. i lovede of the things about this book, you not only talk about what is happening in the country today, you sprinkled history throughout the book. not only james meredith, but also a philip randolph. these people up in the conversation about donald trump, what are you try to say to people? guest: this is an important

question. people say, when they read the book, it is not like you are doing a new treatment of the history. you are just reminding people of this. i say that's exactly right. when donald trump says what the hell do you have to lose, i'm saying i want to remind everyone of what it took to come this far. , we have faith, but people sacrificed, people died. people made so many sacrifices in terms of losing jobs, having banks withdraw loans, mortgages, .o stand up for what is right to understand that history, especially for this generation, say, youen, i want to may not know, have an philipation for who a. randolph is, because he lived in the early 20th century, but you should know that without a. philip randolph and the brotherhood of sleeping car

porters, we have unions in society. unions were segregated. times people put unions on the left side of the political spectrum. unions are very progressive, all of that. in terms of race, you look at the major unions, especially for , schoollike maids teachers, lots of racial integration. this did not exist in the first heart of the 20th century. randolph. philip pushing the afl-cio to get them to open up the doors, the idea that people who wanted to be plumbers, people who want to be steelworkers could be people of color, and that women. you can all take it for granted in the 20th century but this is all american history. this is what we have to lose, mr. president. you have to understand there was an a. philip randolph.

and because we were in washington, he came up with a challenge to frank and on the roosevelt when he was not willing to integrate the military industries during world war ii. roosevelt agrees and finally calls off the potential for what was thought to be a very disruptive march in washington. randolph carry that idea forward to 1963. it is the basis of the great march on washington. people sometimes forget the official title of that march was the march for jobs and freedom. ofust want to remind people heroes to my mind -- he is my hero. the sacrifices this man had to make that has allowed us to stand taller at this time. but then there are some people who want to ignore this history, or want to act in an ahistorical manner. why do you want any special

preference or consideration? no. it is that we want you to understand the history of where we have come from and what we have had to do in order to achieve in the society. host: if you are ever in washington, d.c., there is a a. philip randolph at union station that you should see whenever you go through. good morning. one -- tot to make see what we have with illegal people who come over here with their families with the culture of drugs. gete kids come and they their parents was what they are doing in mexico, and right now, we are full of those people

here and i support mr. trump because his ideas -- they are the ones that can bring this country better. --ome from mexico for from mexico and i believe we are going the same way that mexico is right now. iso not know why juan against president trump and always criticizing everything he does. i would with a tell mr. juan that the mathematics is only one thing for -- one thing. mathematic -- and things like mr. juan says all the time, he does not live in the valley and he does not know how we live over here. i do not know why he is

party.ing the democratic here in the juan, valley, we have a real problem. in washington, where you are, you do not know what is going on over here. we have someone people that really do not want to work because when you get up from bed, and open your refrigerator , wehere is the food? there are many people who do not want to work because food stamps are always there. it is a very important question and i take you quite seriously that you see in situations -- guest: a high percentage of the and takemmigrants

advantage of entitlement programs that are offered in the in, and i'm going to trust your word that you are giving an accurate depiction of the situation. you to raise your horizon a little bit and understand what i see which is i do not think that is typical of most people who come to this country. i think we will come to this country in general working very hard, wanting to stay and wanting to be good americans. yes, in certain areas, you may run into people who are just trying to live off of the land or whatever, yes, but you know what -- there are some americans nativeborn who were also in that category and i do not think it is fair and they land of immigrants to set out were set aside people were immigrants and blame them for all the problems that exist.

that is why when i was speaking speakingi was about people who come here. issueravan was such a big -- people who are desperate are not invading america, they are seeking asylum as a result of the violence in their own country or a lack of opportunity and their own country and i think they come here with very high aspirations. is excess which is what you want for your family this christmas, what i want for my children and family, and that is a different horizon. we are great crunch three we can deal with those problems. without saying to people, you are not welcome here, i do not think you would be here. you talked about being from mexico, i do not think you would be here if we had punishing immigration policies in place.

said one of our callers earlier that you are usually a lone voice on your show. you actuallyook, promote and the defendant some black conservatives with the trump administration. you say some of the most powerful black, conservative voices have not been invited into this conversation or the trump administration. why do you think they should be in that conversation and what is the importance of having those voices inside the white house? historically, you go back to eisenhower -- they had black people there who were the highest ranks in the white house to give a different perspective to the president, top aides as they made policy. ins is eisenhower, there 1954 during brown v. board of education, and this is a much

more difficult time in terms of race and there was a black person in there. just stickingn, with republicans, black people again in the white house. peoplewith credentials, have had experiences, and people who can offer perspective for their background in terms of race relations and civil rights. you come to george h. w. bush who died this year and george w. powell,nde rice, colin clarence thomas -- all of these people, black conservatives who are part of the package and part of the intellectual brain trust. you come to this white house, you do not see it. andone exception, omarosa, she leaves in quite this taste, quite angry at the president and then she -- he calls her a

dog. our history in this society, calling a black woman a dog has a particularly awful odor to it. to me, it is telling. you saw president george w. bush break records in terms of diversity in his. where is the diversity in this cabinet? acosta -- but in terms of a who is in the white house able to communicate with him at critical moments, there is a vacuum. there is a chapter talking about mention the and i work done by james baldwin and attentionn gets the of the attorney general, robert ase, you and makes the c

feel so good, you are democrat, you think you are doing so much to help the civil rights movement along -- here is why, baldwin said, i think you are failing people. kennedy was offended that he would be told because he felt like he was going on challenging a lot of the dixiecrats in his own party and white segregationists in the party. baldwin gets people like leno and otherorne famous black celebrities and you see this interaction. arks and hers of sp feelings, but what you see is that kennedy learns from this experience and takes it back in terms of actual implementation of policy at the justice department and coming from the white house. where is that kind of presence, that interaction in this white house? i say it is shockingly absent and the contributes to the idea president is not only

isolated in terms of the fartical divisions, but so removed from a reality of people of color in american society today. host: that was part of your book that i had never heard before, the meeting between baldwin and bobby kennedy and it was not a happy meeting. some people got up and walked out. guest: right. it is ann if uncomfortable conversation, you think those conversations are necessary at the highest level of government. guest: well, absolutely. they are necessary on television, in our lives, and this is the kind of thing where you push yourself to be better and you push your neighbors adn capacity notur own only for understanding but for bar inent to raising the terms of what we can accomplish in society. when that is absent, you get people falling back into old

'let'nd saying 'let;s -- s go back.' louise on theto democrat line. good morning. hello. caller: hello mr. williams, merry christmas to you. i wanted to ask you, why do we have to write a book about what is going on now in america? people toough of our educate our black youngsters now. my going to tell you, i'm in 70's. listened to the radio

way back when, and they did not have a degree. they understood what was going on. er -- grandfather was an indian. in stepfather worked with world war i. my step would tell us all about world war i. they would tell us what was going on in the world. we have to listen. and i have been a politician ever since i could remember. coming up at the time, i did not white,ack form -- from we were not involved in all of that stuff. would give people sugar, whoever came into her house. that is the way we was raised,

but we were raised to listen. now, i can understand. phillipsalking about a randolph. it seems like our people stop talking about all of this. guest: i could not agree more. you were just talking about because you see toerations telling stories the newer generations and communicating that history in such an effective way that it becomes a part of your family life and legacy. i love that. you asked, why did you write this book, we just need to listen more? well i hope that we need to read more, too, because it serves as a reminder. whatountry, i do not care

race you are or region you are living in, needs to be reminded of what you were talking about. your grandfather in world war i and what it meant in terms of segregation in the military, you can talk about it in terms of the difficulties in terms of employment, education in this country. these are stories that are not to be ignored. have a new african-american history museum in washington and it is the number one museum right now in the city for a very real reason. it is a counter to the idea that, oh, it can be difficult to bring up that history of this combination -- discrimination, that wasand violence used, but we need to listen as you were saying, when need to read, and we need to remember.

ook, theritten this b person who most need to remember is our leader, the president. host: the senate report just came out that says that the russians targeted african-american voters through social media. i want to get your opinion on that. you, right to ask now, unemployment forever to americans is extremely low, historically speaking. not as low as everyone else but low historically speaking. those president trump get credit? guest: let's go in reverse order. whenever he is, questioned about the difficult relationship he has with black americans, he says, what are you talking about, black unemployment is at historic lows. i find this so destructive

because in fact, black unemployment was 17% when barack came to office after the recession in in 2008, 2009 period. or something.2% like that. the way that president trump talks you would think, oh, president trump brought it down from 17%. in fact, president obama brought it down from 70% to 7% and president trump has brought it -- president obama 7%ught it down from 17% to and president robert brought it down from some percent to 5.2%. to me, it is ridiculous. -- yougive him credit have to say, ok, fine, but is ant somehow to be used as

excuse for all of the divisiveness and nasty comments and saying that nfl players are as so -- nfl players are sob's? at some point, you have to say, that is odd. when a diversionary tactic he did not do most of the heavy lifting. the russians -- this is an interesting thing because i think it shows you how susceptible we are when we are divided. americans, do not seek common density and purpose, the russians have properly cts anded us as subje vulnerable when it comes to division. this is so intriguing. only were negative about black people to white people, they were negative to

white people to black people. they would say to black people, especially the black lives matter movement, and they would work in essence to say, you really do not have any reason to vote for hillary clinton. hillary clinton has not isisfied you are -- or not doing enough for you. that was the desired outcome they were after. on the other hand, they are saying to the white people, you need to come out and vote because these black people and immigrants are coming in and stirring trouble. they're playing both sides of this racial divide to their advantage and they wanted to be liked president trump. his: lets go to fred to calling from north carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. williams for your insightful discussion. guest: thank you. caller: i am originally from

india and i am now a naturalized u.s. citizen. my children were born in the u.s. i would like to ask you about something -- get your opinion. immigrant from india, i fully sympathize with the -- of the black , however, nowadays like you mentioned in your discussion , things have changed. aack america has risen lot and my son who is in high school, he has highly intelligent black students who are his friends, and they come from many black families, and very well taken care of.

however, good thing, this is where i become disturbed. just because my son is asian, could be discriminated just because of his race, and his friend, who is black and also intelligent and comes from a get-to-do black family, may privilege. don't you think it is unfair should ben discriminated against just because of his race? if it was just about race , i think it would be unfair. again, you have to understand that race in this country was used as a disadvantage for most .f our history

the black child could not get into most colleges and universities and subsequently jobs because of race. there has been a counter effort to try to correct the mistakes of the past. but living in this moment, you my child at asn't disadvantage even if my child is a superior student and as superior capability, why shouldn't that be at -- acknowledged? your child is, one, may go into the very good sc hool. the other thing i would say is keep in mind, we still have the biggest subject of discriminati comes withthat decisions in legacies. did your dad or mom go to that

school? i would also add to your child is an athlete or musician, again, tremendous advantage in terms of getting into those schools because the admission officers are seeking to have all of those talents represented in their incoming class. there is so many elements at play. like you, a number of parents worry that their child might be disadvantaged simply on a racial basis. you may have followed all of the diversity about elizabeth warren, the senator from massachusetts and her back ground, and was that used by harvard law school to advertise themselves as more diverse than they were. this is a place of a persistent grievance.

so many more factors at play, but it is interesting to me -- we always come back to race in american society. viewers tweeted a question and they asked me to ask you if they think of that reading your book will improve race relations or stoke the anger of black haters? guest: oh, no. this comes from a place in my hoping thatre i am people open their heart in order to have conversations and have policies that he'll= and bring us together. and bring us together. you cannot ignore history and you cannot ignore what we have done as a society. what we have done in terms of improving race relations and opportunities in this society. living up to all men being created equal and protecting

those rights. that is where this book comes from. talk aboutard jesse the history in near, it is the reminder of the heroic effo rts made it to raise us up. it is in that spirit. it is not about attacking gore being hateful. i think it is about being something of a remedy. host: harry calling from pittsburgh on the republican line. good morning. here.: i see mr. williams williams, just one american? that was your child, you would feel different. mr. williams said, there is a bunch of people being killed by other people. again, it is not your child. you are doing everything you can

to cause race division in this country. un's don lemon remind me of the same. you are both despicable racists, and hate white people. on unemployment and elizabeth warren is one thing, so i do not know why fox keeps you on. host: i will let you respond to that. guest: i sense a lot of anger in the caller. [laughter] i do not know what he is talking about. my, it anything happens to child or your child, my heart goes out. what we are talking about here is something we have to do -- that has to do with us in american society. if you make judgments on one person's behavior, are you going to make tremendous mistakes because it is not speak to us as american people who live in california, new york, texas,

illinois, and you are going to see all kind of different situations come to the fore. we have a high rate of incarceration in this country, does it mean we are all criminals? i do not think so. that is the difference here. someone'salk about child was killed by an immigrant, yes, my heart goes out. that is a terrible thing. but is that then the basis of talk about immigrants as all criminals? i think that is so unfair. do not support your perspective on this. fact, in terms of the violent crime, the higher rate of is by nativeborn people than by immigrants. i think you understand the distortions used by politicians to try to stir you up.

it is a radical distortion of the reality of american life today. host: shakira calling from trenton, new jersey on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. the thing that frustrates me so badly is the challenge we have in defining what it is we are talking about. , you given the that you have on fox news, i think you contribute to the confusion by not being very specific and clear about what it is you are talking about when it comes to race. i think there is a very specific distinction between racism and bigotry and prejudice. bigotry and prejudice our personal feelings, personal attitudes, personal perceptions

of an idea that one person has about others. racism on the other hand is a power dynamic and it was set up in this country at the beginning to privilege and advantage one group of people over others. rootss what is that the of the challenges that we experience in this country as african-americans and minorities of all stripes. when i say minorities, i mean nonwhite people. acknnk the refusal to owledge those distinctions keep the confusion in place and make it impossible for us to sort out what is bigotry and prejudice, which if you do not like me because i'm black, that is your problem, not mine -- but if you set up a situation where

the zip code that i live in is diminished in value and so i theot get loans to reflect improvements that i have made in my property, that as a structural condition that then myults in the schools that children go to in that zip code do not have the salaries, the s, theng expert books, the facilities that my children are able to get and that is the zip code where gun flow is allowed to happen. community where guns come across the river from pennsylvania into new jersey regularly. and there is not really anything at the police can do about that. that there is so many guns in my community is what results in the crime in my community. clear andit very

specific about the structural issues. who cares who hates who in the end? i do not mean to say that lightly, meaning that that is an optimal situation, but in the end, if i can do with my life what i want to do with it, i do not really care who does not like me because of the way i look or the texture of my hair. me, what we are boiling down to, and i think i am very clear on this by the way, i think you are talking about the argument that jesse and i were talking about earlier about why is president obama talking down the black people -- whatsays, we need to you have described as a stomach racism, things like the zip code issue where people are born -- systemic racism, things like the

zip code issue or people are born in certain areas. , versus theguns argument that says, let's take more personal responsibility in terms of improving our own community. let's do what we can with what we have at this moment to raise ourselves and our children up to the next level. is a very important argument actually inside the black community at this moment. int is why i referenced this this book. but on a larger level, we have to be very careful that even as we make a very strong argument about persistent, systemic this nationstemic discrimi as in experiencing the kind of crime and criminal activity, drug activity and the like that more boehner bolt of

failure and falling down in american society, not achieving maximum outcomes in life, we have to be careful that we do not somehow do away with our own power to make a difference. say, just as a dad sitting on christmas morning, i would never say to mic is, we have to wait until all of the systemic racism is done away before you can achieve the good in your life. i would say, we can work on the as we aressue, but doing that, you need to take responsibility and do the best you can. that is what i would say to my children. there is an argument about zaidi andacism into an argument about personal responsibility. i do not see it as being an either/or situation. thatnk it is a situation

you achieve greater power, you have a greater voice in terms of uesling with systemic iss that disadvantage the black community or any community for that matter. host: let's get one more person in, let's go to mike from arkansas. caller: how are you? host: good. caller: what do we have to lose? i am a veteran and he is losing all of our rights. he is trying to take everything from us. us everythingave and this idiot is taking everything that we have. but i was raised in the military. this is not what i thought four. this guide is a communist, a racist, so many things. i live around these people and their mental midgets, too. they cannot see what they are

doing and that is just disgusting. i thank you for taking my call. guest: you are welcome. i think sometimes, it is hard to understand why some people close their eyes to these situations. me and again, to it contributes to the divisions we have in american society, but on this christmas morning, talking to you as a veteran and maybe,not understanding some of these attitudes may start to shift. saw the secretary of defense james mattis recently resigned and expressed his discontent with this president. i wonder if some people who have previously been in trump's camp might now be having second thoughts because a lot of people are concerned that someone as credentialed as mattis would depart and then have trump come

back and not even say, you are going to leave at the end of february, but i want you out now . people might start to say, something is not right. some of the to see republicans, especially in change hill behind jesse their attitude, it might be a point of radical shift in terms of the political division in american society. host: tell us who robert weaver is and why you had him in his book. you know you can drive by the housing and urban development building in washington dc, and the name of the building is robert weaver this has and particular resonance because our president is a real estate developer. robert weaver was that economist and going back to fdr and so forth with someone who was talking about housing discrimination.

he was talking about the need to break down things like restrictive covenants that limited the ability of people of color to move into white neighborhoods, integrated neighborhoods. hethen, not only pushed, pushed to the point that he was instrumental in terms of the 1964 civil rights act, having in there provisions that banned minations, and he was the first african-american secretary of the department of housing and urban development. that presidentng trump was sued for housing discrimination in the 1960's and 1970's? they had a huge settlement and the man who was behind the push to save the government has to enforce equal riper people in terms of housing, robert weaver.

host: we would like to thank juan williams, the author of "what the hell do you have to lose? trump's war on civil rights." announcer: here is a look at our prime time schedule on christmas night. starting now, former president barack obama and former secretary of state james baker with presidential historian john meacham at rice university in their years inng office. women in the workplace. then, queen elizabeth ii delivers her christmas message. finally, combating loneliness and social isolation. president barack obama joins former secretary of state james baker and presidential historian john