opioid tragedy in three acts " and the opioid crisis in the u.s. we will take your calls. during our conversation on facebook and twitter as well. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. 30, 2018.mber day nine of the government shutdown. while the president remains in the white house, few expect the showdowns to and until after gavelsheir new congress in thursday. as the funding impasse stretches on, we want to ask if you have been impacted at all. give us a call. tell us whether the shutdown has affected you. republicans, (202) 748-8001 is the number. democrats, (202) 748-8000.

independents, (202) 748-8002. a special line for federal workers this morning, (202) 748-8003. you can also catch up with us on social media. on twitter, it's @cspanwj. on facebook, it's facebook.com/cspan. a very good sunday morning to you. here are some of the numbers on the ongoing government shutdown. nine federal agencies and smaller departments have been impacted by the government shutdown. around 380,000 federal workers have been furloughed and have been off the job since the start of the shutdown. 240,000 federal workers do not know when they will get paid. start calling in now as we take you to the president's twitter page. yesterday, blaming democrats for the ongoing shutdown -- i am in the white house, waiting for democrats to come on over and make a deal on border security.

from what i hear, they are spending so much time on presidential harassment that they have little time left for stopping crime. the president going after those who naively asked why did republicans not get a deal to get approval is because in the senate, we need 10 democrat votes, and they will give us none for port security. democrats mean while pointing the finger back at the president. this, the weekly aquatic address -- democratic address. what they have to say about the blame game. [video clip] >> unfortunately, as we have seen the past week, we have a long way to go to restoring common sense in washington, d.c. we watched the president drive our nation into a needless and destructive trump shutdown right in the middle of our holidays. as we speak, over 400 20,000

federal employees across the country are going without pay, including firefighters in our national forests, tsa agents, who secures all their holiday travel, and countless others. the partisanship, rancor, and dysfunction of the trump shutdown is exactly what voters rebuked in november. that is why, on january 3, when the new democratic house majority arrives, we will bring the hope, vision, and goals of effective governance back to the forefront. we will not only swiftly pass legislation to reopen government but ensure that government is responsible, ethical, and is truly of, by, and for the people. it is with that message and directive in mind that the democratic majority will also make restoring our democracy a top priority with the passage of h.r.-1. this bill will begin to clean up

the mess in washington, d.c. by securing our elections, reducing the power of special interests in political campaigns, and increasing ethical standards for elected officials. host: one story from today's papers about the impact of the government shutdown -- amid looms closure -- museums andian research center and zoos have been spared, but if the closure continues beyond new year's day, all smithsonian institutions will close, locking visitors out of the zoo and the national museum of natural history and the national museum of african-american history and culture. the ice rink where skaters can skate will also close. the smithsonian institution employing about 4000 employees.

this morning, talking about the impact of the shutdown. has it impacted you? that is what we are talking about in this first segment of the "washington journal." republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. and the line for federal workers, (202) 748-8003. robert is calling from wisconsin, a republican. good morning. caller: yeah, john? host: go ahead. -- can i am just curious -- do a bit of history as to this happens three times with reagan. he is a republican president. can you do a historical graph as to how many times per president, and democratic congress or democratic governor or president , and also, can you tell me who at c-span handles the

programming scheduling? who handles putting on stuff during the holidays? host: it is a group decision we make, including here on the "washington journal." we have been planning for the holidays for several weeks now. a group of us meet every day after this show to talk about the segments we will have. always appreciate set -- suggestions on those segments. we are happy to go through some of the recent shutdown history and some of the recent questions. the shutdown, at nine days, is within the top 10 of longer shutdowns. here are some of the links of times of recent government shutdowns -- earlier this year, january and february, two short shutdowns. lasting three days in january. there was the 16 day shutdown during the obama administration come october 1, two 1013. the longer shutdown coming during the clinton administration, 21 days long.

also, another five days shut down earlier that year in november of 1995. we will go through more history of those shutdowns. but we are asking how you have been impacted by those shutdown. is it something that has reached you yet, impacted your life? , arman is up next republican. caller: are you there? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i do not have a problem with the shutdown. my main concern is i know we have to do something about borders. we have got to do something about immigration. first, there was the officer who got killed by the immigrant. i want to give my condolences to his family. my mom was an immigrant. understand.e -- i

immigrants.are they were raised in america. we came herem is the right way. you understand what i am saying? if it means shutting down the government, you know, having people getting killed and everything, killing americans, that is not right. north carolina. how have you been impacted by the shutdown? caller: i have not been affected, but everyone else around has. here,ring the mexicans in do not check if they have a they card or not, and now, run over your property and take what they can out of them. i caught them out here stealing out of my property.

if it -- if any of them had to pay their way back i did not have a green card, i am fine with it if they have a green card. or if they had to pay their expenses back and fine them about $10,000. host: this is earl, federal worker. are you furloughed? caller: yes, i am here right now. i want to give credit to all of those before me that have had their views on the impacts and the personal views on this and that. but i want to talk about the impact this has had on me as far as being a part of the nation of america as a whole. the impact of this shutdown is it has allowed those that look at our president as the leader and man in power -- he got this election going because he said he would build it.

this was his reason for election. but beside the wall or whatever, we are losing impact of what we are building the wall four. the wall is to show security within. if we built a wall or in america, it would be to build a wall against anything that will be an outside force against what we got going on already. ityou want in this thing, would be easier than walking through. we do not get to go to india and china and other countries and freely walk over there -- want to have a conversation here, and we want keep it to civil conversation. victor is up next in silver spring, maryland, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i was a federal worker. i am retired now. this should don has absolutely no effect with me. i've had other shutdowns in the past when i was working. it was a joke.

i did eventually get paid. what i really want to say -- when i listen to the radio during the day, it is all doom and gloom. cannot sleep, i tune into this american trucking show out of cincinnati, ohio. and the truckers have a lot to say. lividd one say he was about this policeman being murdered by an illegal alien in california. he asked the rhetorical question, and i am asking now, why isn't nancy pelosi, chuck mitchr sing-along with mcconnell, why are they not arrested and charged with accessory to a murder? because if we had the wall, this policeman, and other people injured or killed by illegal aliens would be alive today.

so keep the shutdown going. shut the border down. it will be a lot of fun watching the state of the union address when trump gives that in january or early february. because i know some of the democrats on the far, far, far left are going to scream in the middle of his speech. i would love to see that. host: i promise we will cover his state of the union on c-span . you can join us to watch what happens on the floor of the house when the president gives his state of the union. he mentioned nancy pelosi and chuck schumer. therey from politico, playbook on the state of negotiations. without contact between the president and nancy pelosi, the expected incoming speaker of the house. the white house has not reached out to pelosi's staff to schedule a get together.

there has been no communication with the vice president and from the incoming chief of staff. we are asking how the federal -- government shut down has impacted you, stories from around the country about the nine day shutdown affect doing some 25% of the federal budget. the minnesota budget chief warned friday that minnesota could begin to feel dire consequences if the partial federal shutdown extends deep into the new year. this story yesterday quoting him as saying we are in a whole different world if this does not get resolved at the beginning of the first week of congress. you go beyond a shutdown into i do not know how long, and all of a sudden, the shutdown could have a more serious economic disruption. state is monitoring crucial

federal programs, such as reimbursements to local governments it with disasters, payments for federally backed transportation projects, and money to inspect commercial vehicles for safety. residents cannot consult with the irs on end of your tax russians. small businesses cannot get federal loans. and the u.s. department of agriculture will not be open to help farmers. at stories from around the country. has the federal government shut down impacted you? if so, give us a call. ralph is in michigan, line for you live, as we show shots of the white house and the u.s. capitol. go ahead. facility have a v.a. here. i do not know at what level it is functioning. tohink c-span has got address the racial aspect of all of this.

my impression is we are not building a wall on the northern border, because the people who would be coming across would be white and english-speaking. but i sense a constant racism about this issue. threatened by are mexicans, spanish speaking, brown skinned people. maybe you have to divide the lines up by racial groups. by the way, there is one other thing -- there are undocumented workers working at donald trump, presiden't t -- president trump's clubs. there are undocumented workers at his new jersey golf clubs. the hypocrisy is also at mar-a-lago. host: that story you mentioned, here is the reporting on it. this from the "washington post." -- newly --state

a new york attorney that represents five undocumented immigrant who say they worked at the trump national golf club, said in an interview saturday that he met with investigators from the new jersey state attorney's office and two fbi agents in november before the workers began to go public with their story. indicate that investigators may be launching a probe into the hiring practices of the president's golf club. a spokesperson for the new jersey attorney general's office --the office policy is not is to not confirm or deny investigations. pittsburgh, republican. have you been impacted by the government shut down? caller: yes.

am, so youain who i can understand how it is affecting me. i am a republican, but i have been voting democrat because i think this republican party is, like, no. my profession is an artist. i have been raising my family as an artist. arthave to look at what means in the world. americaw, our system in -- and i am talking about americans right now, not fake americans. now, you needght and heighten its harmony, heighten between citizens, and use a way to create that good soul. of they are -- but our head threat, based on this

especially racism is the major thing. andoutrageous fortune power. that is all it is. --you need to make sure we are americans, that we are who we are supposed -- host: a minute ago, you said fake americans. what is a fake american? caller: say that again? host: what is a fake american? caller: you know, that is a little joke in my mind. a fake american is -- as a republican, i am nonprofit. structure, my art projects, art nonprofits. we are not making money. we are creating an environment where money can be made. americans, they use

stuff like interest rates for americans to work against their own self interest. your personal interest trade,ff the top in any before they even consider the benefit of what america is trying to do. that is george in pennsylvania. we are asking you whether the government shut down has impacted you. phone lines, republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. a special line for federal workers. (202) 748-8003. story, this ad of arizona,t talking about local impacts of the shutdown. the community food bank of southern arizona is already planning for the worst if

congress cannot come to an agreement. pantry serves around 9000 people every month. will -- the director of the programs as they have placed orders for food that should last a few weeks if the shutdown becomes long-term. programsrition continue through february, but snap is funded only through january. food bank staff -- we want to see the impact in your neighborhoods. jean is in virginia. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i will be real brief. "why" is the that question.

here. lost me i'm not bashing the office, i'm not bashing the president. i have to ask why. there is a finding for our order patrol, for our customers and employees. wanting toyou are hold up the budget for a campaign promise you made -- you lied. 45 lied. 45 said mexico was going to pay for the border. yet you want to hold up employee and workers' money, their paychecks, because now you want the american citizens, and that is not fair to us. you made a campaign promise that mexico was going to pay for it. i feel that you lied to us.

as a result, employees and workers are being impacted. services -- i went to d.c., and the trash is piled up already. to go anywhere to conduct business, you have to call to ensure the agency is open. why did you lie to us? you did not have to make a point, to affect workers and families and households to make a point. you made a promise. you lied to us. you made a promise that mexico was going to pay for it. host: the numbers come again -- nine federal agencies and smaller departments have shut their doors. that represents about 25% of the federal government. the finding that has expired under those shut down. around 280,000 federal workers have been furloughed. another four hundred 20,000 federal workers are on the job i

do not know when they will get paid. the president has been tweeting quite a bit on the ongoing shut down. his acting chief of staff also stepping outside the white house doors and taking some questions friday. here is a bit from that brief interview. [video clip] >> we made an offer last saturday night they told us they would get back to us by the end of the week. they got back to us last night and said we are leaving, that is it. go on for a while. we expect to manage it. the smithsonian has been open. it will close after new year's. we will not be weaponizing that shut down in order to make it hard on people, like we believe the previous administration does. host: this morning on the washington journal, as it continues to go towards the long haul, we are asking what impact you have seen. (202) 748-8001 if you are a

republican. (202) 748-8000 if you are a democrat. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you are a federal worker, it is (202) 748-8003. michael is a republican, paterson, new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning, everybody. i want to say america first and americans first, not last. i also want to say those that call the race card are the racist. the northern border, if there was a problem, they should have addressed it. there is a problem on the southern border. that is why they are addressing it hit bottom line is i am for the wall and i am or the shutdown, because if you cannot give the president $5.7 billion for the wall, you will give him that same amount of money for the food stamps or the section the welfarefor checks, for the medicaid, and for the education, you will give

them all free rides. they do not earn anything, but they are walking in here. they will get a bunch of benefits. the government will not tell you that side of the story. but they will tell you do not build the wall -- it is too expensive. but you will pay one way or another, because the government does not know how to manage our money. they care less about the american people, both republicans and democrats. they need to get there truth right do they need to get it together. under fire, like trump says. i am not even a republican, but i am for trump. emily in garfield, washington, a federal worker. are you furloughed? caller: i am not furloughed, but i have been impacted. in 2013, with the government shutdown, we decided to get out of debt.

and even though the federal government is working on actually shutting down, and i may be impacted soon as our agency secure run out of money, we have a plan and they are in place. austeres was pretty this year because they were talking about a shut down december 7. back, we mayid not. there is always the question. host: can we ask what agency you work in and what impacts your agency, if it does eventually shut down, what people will see on the ground if it is shut down? caller: i work for usda, which has decided to split up the agency. some of those agencies, like rural -- the farm loans and insurance and fsa, the farm service agency, they have

decided to handle the shutdown differently. so some are furloughed and some are not. host: and are you planning to be in the office this week? caller: i will. leave i took annual monday. next, democrat from mobile, alabama. caller: good morning morning. i hear people call in to c-span and say let the president do his job. well, we live in a democratic society. one of our jobs, as citizens, is call out things that we see are wrong. i think it is our responsibility to do so. shut down has not affected me currently -- i am a tired professor. it shows me we have a climate in this country and i worry about it and i am concerned about the type of climate we are living in

. it probably makes many people upset, sad, worried. own particular situation does not get affected -- and who knows, there may be a time when it will -- i think we have a responsibility to say if we see things that are not right. if our president chest on the government so hundreds, if not thousands, people go without their paychecks, i think we have a responsibility to say that. that is his job. and we are part of a democracy. we are not in a dictatorship. we should call it out. and we should help the climate of the country improve. i think that is the deal we are in with our government. bill in alabama. we are coming up on 7:30 on the

east coast. phone lines for republicans, democrats, and independents, as usual, and also the line for federal workers. the president with plenty of tweets yesterday, not just on the shutdown. the president also speaking about recent that's of immigrant children. the tweets marking the remarks.'s first caal andren, jakelin joaquim -- felipe alonzo. the president saying --

in the "new york times" right up about those tweets, they note the president mischaracterized the reason cited for the deaths as well as the families' reaction to the deaths. many of the circumstances around not yets death are known. the story also noting border patrol said that the girl had consumed water for several days before being detained, but her father disputed that. we will look to see if the president continues his tweets today. asking you how the shutdown has impacted you.

john is in virginia, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i am calling to say it has not affected me, but i support the shutdown. it should have been done 10 years ago. donald trump is looking out for the american citizen. doesn't it bother anybody that when you have to make a phone call to almost any business, you have to press 1 for english, 2 for spanish? we do not do that for any other language. if they want to come to america, come legally and learn to speak the language. host: you said the government shutdown has not impacted you. the is a recent piece by heritage foundation. it ran in the "miami herald." they write in a government shutdown, about 120,000 central

federal employees continue to work, including law enforcement and correctional officers. and up to 88% of homeland security employees. american safety would not be sacrificed. you should not worry about your benefit payments being affected. not rely onms do congress taking action for annual funding to continue, or their appropriations were already passed into law. are you seeing it in your part of the country? ahead.republican, go i am a 24-year-old american citizen. my faith is christianity. i support trump and everything he does. he is a really good president. it has affected me, because it shows our president has back on. when he says he is going to do something, he is going to get it done. god supports him.

int: tom is next bloomingdale, new jersey, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. say i think most of us can agree every country has the right to control its own borders. that is a given. as a democrat, i am disappointed in my leaders for not saying the real reason why we cannot support the wall. and the reason is because of the sold it to us.nt it is kind of like a home security salesman coming into my house, showing me the features and benefits of this home security system, and then he tries to close the sale by telling me, tom, you really need this because of all the blacks and hispanics you have around here. i got news for you. i may still buy the home

security system, but i am never going to buy it from him. because if i buy it from him, it only validates and encourages his sales pitch. so my message to my fellow americans is sent us another salesman, and then we can all talk. country over party, okay? host: dorothy is next, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i am opposed to the president's handling of the shutdown. i have relatives affected by the shutdown. so i am opposed to the shutdown. i hope the democrats will not support it. the president has got to grow up and act like a real leader. he is not showing real leadership. it is not necessary for the shutdown. it is not necessary to hold people off from work, without a majority of

middle americans suffer. it is time for the shutdown to go away so middle america can get back to work. i oppose the shutdown. i think it is just a shame, to put middle americans in this kind of financial bind. host: can you talk about your own financial bind? have you changed your spending as a result of this shutdown? caller: i am retired. i am very happy to be retired. whoi have family members are going through the shutdown. and they are still working. they work in the washington, d.c.-maryland area. and to have to listen to, firsthand -- and to have to listen to firsthand suffering bothers me. i am a retired teacher. luckily, this does not affect

me. host: thanks for the call, from arkansas this morning. the question is has the shutdown impacted you? fred on twitter rights this -- no. i want the shutdown until we have security on the border with the wall. asking ifrom davey, the shutdown does not congress in session, get the government shut down indefinitely. when it comes to congress, there will be a pro forma session in the house tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. the senate also in pro forma session tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. the senate scheduled to meet wednesday, january 2, at 4:00 p.m. then, thursday morning is the final hour of the 115th congress, 116th congress gathering at noon.

-- howrth, texas, bryce has the shutdown affected you? caller: it has not affected me, and not whatsoever. i am on disability. broke my back a while back. i am an ex-iron worker. it has not affected me. i do not even know anybody it has affected, and i live in the dallas-fort worth area. but what i would like to say is -- i listened to this lady a few minutes ago, and i feel for her, but what she and a lot of people need to understand, and i mean a lot of people in this country -- they have got to understand that, right now, mexico is paying for the wall. because right now, mexico is paying for all of the crud that is down in tijuana. they are paying for it. what people do not understand is when trump says they are going

to pay for it, he does not necessarily mean that they are going to fork over the cash. is saying is they will pay for it in lost revenue, pay for it in tariffs. one way or another, they are going to end up paying the money. 4.-somethinge billion like obama did with iraq and fly in a bunch of money, mexico is not going to do that. trump onn president the campaign trail said mexico would pay for it, was it your understanding at that point that they would fork over the cash? been in ahave particular type of illness that involves subsidies. as a matter of fact, i spent a

lot of time in the washington area, gaithersburg area. spacing forree satellites back in the day. of thee of the pioneers big and small satellites. what i am saying is no. when he said that, i knew he was talking about that they were going to pay for it. he even said it -- one way or another. upnomically or just straight cash. here's the deal. we have people that, just yesterday -- alien killedlegal another person. i am not sure if it was an officer or not, but -- this has got to stop.

need tontry, all they do -- type oft to build every building. i used to build towers that were 2000 feet up. but my point is you can build a wall, you can use sensors -- you do not have to have a huge monstrosity. you can use sensors, electronics. utilize the electronic capability that we have now, even via satellite, to monitor the so-called wall. 5-something-billion is nothing compared to what the democrats bogus,ent on a absolutely bogus, investigation. rhonda, democrat. good morning.

caller: hi. i used to be a democrat. now i am a republican. i voted for trump. we need a wall. it is very dangerous there. i have a question. and i have a suggestion. i heard about a gofundme page for the wall, and last i heard, it was $11 million. i was wondering if you knew anything about that. then, my suggestion -- if we take two fema trailers and put them at the border and have nancy pelosi and chuck schumer live in them, they would see how dangerous it is. host: have you been to the border? caller: no, but i've seen so much in the news. there are different border wall programs that were taped when obama was an offer is -- was in office. it is so dangerous there. the people are running for their lives, but they should do it the

right way. we cannot have all of the cribs coming in-- the crips with them. we need the border wall. they need the fema trailers for chuck and nancy to live in. host: that's rhonda in illinois this morning. the number reported by foxbusiness -- $17 million raised by that gofundme page for the border wall. the president looking for $5 billion from democrats and republicans in the house and senate. that funding bill, that is where this impasse started -- funding for the border wall. jim is in new jersey, independent. caller: good morning. the shutdown has not affected me personally. , anow somebody it affects federal worker, fbi man.

he told me that they have had shutdowns in the past, and he has been furloughed, but he has always been paid. eventually. and the way it did affect them is he saved up his vacation time for the end of the year, and that happened to fall just when the shutdown occurred and he told me they lost his entire vacation time. the other comment i would like i definitelyat understand why -- what the shutdown accomplishes, if the people that do not get paid during this time that the government is shut down eventually get paid anyway -- it does not seem to me it saves any money. it seems it seems that costs extra money. the two weeks they were out and did not work. they have to go back in and do that extra work. it probably involves over time. i do not understand that. like one of your other callers

said, when trump said the mexicans are going to pay for the wall, who really thought they were? on the other hand, why did he say it in the first place? host: a couple of callers have brought up this story out of california, this from fox news from yesterday -- illegal immigrant fugitive, wanted in the murder of a california police officer, taken into custody friday after being on the run for two days. the sheriff of stanislaus county announced the arrest of the suspect, identified as gustavo p around 280a are miles south of where corporal ronil singh was going down -- was gunned down. the spokesman told reporters at a news conference that arriaga was from mexico and was in the u.s. illegally after previously costing -- crossing the arizona

border. they said the suspect was in the country for a number of years. back to your calls. about 15 minutes left in this segment. matt is in new jersey, republican. caller: yeah, i am a republican. the shutdown has not affected me. trump's presidency has. he has brought manufacturing back to this country -- host: are you in manufacturing? caller: yes. host: what do you make? conductive hose. my problem is with democrats. you can sit any given day and pull a pelosi, schumer, talking about illegal immigration, how bad it is. chuck schumer said it is wrong, we need security. the double standard is outrageous.

the way to flip-flop they do and then blame it on -- i do not know what people can do with the mainstream media perpetuating the chaos in the white house, which is a bunch of crock. i do not even call them journalists anymore. the wall is needed. how many americans have to die at the hands of illegals? you have the sheriff's officer in california. you had an illegal arrested for a triple homicide in springfield. the one in ohio. how many american citizens have to die at the hands of illegal immigrants before these democratic lawmakers get it in their heads that this is what we need. look at israel. -- 99.9% effective with the

wall. int: this is michael alabama, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. my wonderful step back, whom i live with, is a usda employee who is on furlough himself right now. giving him some free time he really deserves. i really think of the mountain topaperwork he will have extend into saturdays and sundays when he is rehired. i am concerned about the effect on my brother, who works for the state department in washington, d.c. particularly if somebody could tell me how this affects our military bases, because of the columbus, mississippi air force base, some 40 miles

west-southwest of us, -- host: on that question, the military is funded through fiscal 2019. that was a separate bill passed and signed by the president. a couple of agencies funded, including the legislative branch of congress. veterans affairs also funded. those agencies not impacted by the shutdown. the shutdown impacting nine federal agencies and other smaller departments. caller: may i tell you the solution i wish washington would forinstead of the wall or -- illegal immigration? first of all,, why can't , not byon work together giving federal dollars to mexico city, but try to solve the problem at the pass by working

with child sponsorship charities and religious and secular charities to have solutions in nursesf medical doctors, , education programs, especially regarding mexico, higher education. basic education than that is much more of a problem and financially worse off countries. and small-scale jobs, such as microloans, pay beyond the village level and especially in rural mexico, where the drug cartels are tracking so many teenagers and young adults. have called who income of these conservatives who make me ashamed to be an able-bodied, white male gentile. their family-

members, there teenagers, have ever been recruited perhaps with threats to their family members by drug cartels and by youth gangs? have they ever faced violence like that? and have any of these, especially white conservatives, ever seen anyone of them killed by some disease, like that child on the texas-mexico border. washington can't spend this money also on a streamlined, easier form of legal immigration? i've read there are lots of test,ulties, such as testing applicants on some arcane question like name this latert particular amendment in the constitution and tell us imf officials what it means and how it applies?

if it were easier and if we communicated that to the rest of the world through the state department and radio free america, or whatever it is called, perhaps more of them would enter the country legally. both of that would be more effective than a wall that, to me, would not work. trump, for all of his wonderful work in israel, has embarrassed me as a born-again saved christian. please do not believe everything that some of his supporters, like reverend jim baker on television, are telling you. host: thank you. independent. caller: thank you. i appreciate your show. i appreciate that man so much, speaking the truth. a lot of people out there are only thinking of hate and separation. just hatred.

-- the police got killed, which is terrible, but what about the american people killing police? isn't that so terrible? is it our right, if it is not an immigrant that kills a police officer? this year, i think it may have been 30 police officers called to a false call, just to kill them. all of them have been killed by american people. said if you had a border, they would be safer. when that kevin was coming, they said they would be coming to kill, but when they stopped, they were more american people killed in america, and the caravan had not even come to america. trump --

pushing hate against hispanic people. an american spanish, but american -- how do you know if they are illegal or not if they are spanish? one man called in, he had to press a button and said you speak english or spanish? that does not make a difference if you were born here or not. host: we got your point. corbin in texas. about seven minutes left for this segment. phone lines as usual. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. we do have that special line for federal workers, (202) 748-8003. this nine day long government shutdown has impacted you. we want to hear from you this morning. this story from friday, the

president issuing an executive order freezing them pay for federal civilian workers in 2019. it affects the pay of roughly 2 million workers. the pay of military personnel is handled separately. the executive order follows a proposed pay freeze that the president outlined in the budget he sent to congress last february. federal workers may still get the raise in 2019 if congress approves it and if the president signs it. some union officials representing federal government workers say they expect congress to pass and nearly 2% pay increase, which the senate has already done in a bipartisan vote. the incoming democratic house appears ready to support it. i am calling to say that

i definitely support the because sovereignty belongs to jehovah. trying tovernment is control all of the people in the land and the resources, take stuff from us, kill off our people, harm us, but they do not want to give us the real stuff that our father created anyway. the only way we can get that back is the our own government. host: that is willie in michigan. cameron in las vegas, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. i have to say, the bulk of the viewers i've been listening to, it sounds like one really terrified country. you were speaking to a lady earlier that was talking about all of this violence, and nancy pelosi needing to move down by the border. and you asked her at the end, have you been down to the border?

and she said no, but i see it all on tv. howink that sums it up for pathetic and uninformed the american public truly are. it is a shame. the division that between people is so great, over such nonsense. these are people that are fleeing for a better life. 99% ofchecked, almost the people that reside in this country are immigrants, in one way, shape, or another. nastyis absurd to be so to these poor people. the stuff they were showing on tv is meant to capture your attention. what is really going on is a whole different story. people like the current president do everything that and can to stir up the pot

make things more divided. it is a pathetic shame. independent,next, colorado. caller: good morning morning. i want to thank you about putting up information that social security will continue. i asked a lot of people and no one could give me a definite answer. but i have a question i would like to ask of your viewers. if they know how much of the fence ands have security and is blocked. i do not understand -- this is new. it started with president bush. are they saying that the fences have to be torn down and walls have to be built? i would like that cleared up, please. host: what do you think should happen? what would be acceptable to you? caller: i think having fencing up is good. i have a cousin who lives in

arizona. i called her. she gave me the information -- most of arizona's border is blocked. it has fencing. i do not understand why a fence is not good, why it has to be a wall. host: our last caller in this first segment of the "washington journal." stick around. up next, we will be joined by u.s. dobbins, former assistant secretary of state. we will talk about the top foreign policy of 2018. later, the final day of "washington journal's" authors series. we will be joined by chris mcgreal, to talk about his book, "american overdose." ♪

>> tonight on "q&a" -- >> we are on the floor of the united states senate. this is unprecedented. no one else has ever gotten an opportunity to do this. it is for production of a documentary on the u.s. senate. an hour before they begin, they will -- we will ring aorund the chamber and get shots of the session. >> c-span executive producer mark farkas talks about his work on the upcoming production "the senate: conflict and compromise." >> if mitch mcconnell suggested this, how much control did he have over the content? >> zero. when we met with him for the first time, we had a couple of conditions. one is you have to grease the skids with the democrats.

if you want accessrepublicans, t access to the democrats, and you don't have an editorial control over this and they said that is fine, but we don't want you to focus on the acrimony and so we to do thatn't ask us because we are not going to concentrate on it, but we can't shy away from it. we have to come out with a both people we feel on the journalism side and people who watch the senate can say they did not give a big wet kiss to the senate but also say we did not do a hatchet job. on theexecutive producer senate, conflict and compromise tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. >> this week on the communicators, our guest is author of custodians of the internet. platforms are just running to

catch up on what it means to have their platforms land any particular culture, affect a particular political environment and how they can possibly set rules that are culturally sensitive, understand the kind of tensions at work. thatraises the questions the platforms are reluctant to ask, maybe they should not all fall to them and maybe the decision process about what to remove has to be shared with the communities involved and that is a very hard thing to architect, but so is what they have built already. >> join us monday on c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: for discussion on the top foreign-policy stories of 2018, ,e are joined by james dobbins who works on security and diplomacy issues at the rand corporation. do you think we have seen the development of a trump doctrine

in 2018, and if so, how would you define it? becauset is hard to say the president has not been strong on consistency but if you he ishave to say certainly not a globalist or multinational list. he is not an isolationist. he refers to deal with one country at a time. he is uncomfortable in multilateral settings. he is critical of multilateral organizations and that limits what he can accomplish. bilateral those negotiations worked when it comes to foreign policy? guest: some have and some have not. thelearly went through nafta questions and we were going to pull out of nafta and we made some limited changes in the arrangement and now we are going to stay in assuming

congress passes the new nafta. we are still in a confrontation with china, still with the european union. we still have national security sanctions on allies like germany , like japan, like canada. we are still in a broader competition with china. moment, mostt the of these bilateral efforts have not succeeded. trade agreement with south korea for instance. host: just go profile bilateral summits took place this year. one with north korea and one in helsinki with russian president vladimir putin. were they successful? i think the summit with

the north koreans was successful in reducing tensions and the of a conflict.s the jury is still out on whether anything long-term has been accomplished. there were promises on both sides that have not been fulfilled. in particular, north korea has not begun to dismantle its nuclear program although it has stopped testing. i have to say that was a partial success but limited. putin was almost universally regarded as a catastrophe. we have serious difficulties with russia, some areas where we have potential for cooperation but unless we address the areas where we have serious

differences, we can't possibly move forward on the areas where we have potentially positive cooperation and the president failed to address those negative aspects of the relationship. host: the year in foreign policy is our topic. james dobbins of the rand corporation is our guest. the numbers are as usual. (202)-748-8001 for republicans. (202)-748-8000 democrats. independents, (202)-748-8002. let us know what foreign-policy topic you want to talk about. i want to go to the most recent foreign-policy effort by the president. his surprise visit to iraq and his comments there. here is one of the headlines from abc news. we are no longer suckers is what president trump told troops during his first visit to a combat zone.

i think he would like to you -- you would like to reduce u.s. commitments in the middle east. it is possible trump wants to reduce u.s. commitments in europe and asia. his language is certainly more nuanced in that regard. think that it denigrates the service and accomplishments of our military to suggest that they have been duped, that the policies have been deeply mistaken and that their efforts have been for naught. i think that is a mistake.

the: some saying that president's decision to pull troops out of syria was an abrupt decision. here is the president defending his decision. [video clip] >> we can do things from iraq. we can take up some of the slack. we have knocked out about 99% of the caliphate. it is time to bring them back. i told the general's a year and a half ago, let's get out of can we haveey said some more time and i said you have six months. let's get out of syria, let's bring our young people home and they said sure, but can we have six more months and i said you have six months and i gave them six months and then i said let's said can wethey have six months of -- can we have six more months and i said sure.

they said recently again, can we have more time and i said no, we can't have any more time. we've knocked them out, we have not them silly. i will tell you that i had some good talks with president erdogan who wants to knock them out also. others will do it. they should be sharing the burden and they are not and now they are going to be doing it and if they don't, they will go into places like turkey and russia and iran and iraq. these people are going to have to start doing a lot of their own work and they're going to have to start paying for it because the united states cannot continue to be the policeman of the world. we want to protect our country. host: you have called that decision the right idea, just the wrong time. explain. allies inve got

syria, the kurdish forces that have been fighting against the islamic state. they have been dying. they moved into areas that are not kurdish and our behest in order to eliminate aspects of the islamic state. we are now abandoning them to their enemies, to turkey and the assigned regime. i think we needed to stay long enough to allow them to negotiate some arrangement, some -- that would allow them to continue to exist within a united syria and would keep turkey from overrunning them. is for atial humanitarian disaster in which 60,000 kurdish fighters that have been our allies and partners are overrun by turkish forces. , but thenot happen abrupt nature of the decision creates that risk.

it also creates a credibility gap for the administration the national security advisor, state department officials have been saying consistently that we are going to stay in syria as long as iran does. we were conditioning our withdrawal on the iranian withdrawal. this was said at the highest levels except by the president. now the president has said he gave them six months repeatedly. i question that. i don't think the national security advisor or others would have gone out with such flat statements that we were going to stay as long as necessary if they have been told by this president that they only had six months. host: james dobbins is a career diplomat and former secretary of state. he worked on foreign-policy issues with the white house and now with the rand corporation. he is here with us to talk to you about the top foreign-policy issues of 2018.

steve is up first in florida, independent. you are on with james dobbins. caller: there are two things i wanted to say about this. first of all, in our trade issues, we had to buff up the farmers in this country because we can't export soybeans and other products to china. that is stupid. you are paying the farmers because they are losing money. if that issue was not available, they would be sending 90% of the soybeans back to china. in our declaration of independence, it says that when he takes away our charters and laws concerning trade and goes on unilateralism, that was of the things we fought against with the british crown. not one person should decide what trade policy -- trade policies or if we withdraw from

or the parisjvp accords. this is ridiculous and this is one thing that our soldiers, when we formed this country fought for, was to stop this type of abuse. guest: i agree. in trade wars, everyone loses. the tariffs are paid by the united states. our tariffs on chinese goods are paid by u.s. consumers. the caller is right that the constitution establishes the congress as the proper locale for trade policy. the congress has ceded a lot of that authority to the president but they can take it back at any time they choose to do so. ,hey have not chosen to do so so far but congress has the authority to set and change

tariffs, conclude trade so the caller is right that this is a prerogative that was signed -- a signed to the congress which the congress has largely ceded to the president. host: arizona, scott is next -- jack is next, republican. your guest says that a ,ouple things about the farmers let's get one thing straight, this is been going on for four years and we have farm bill bills were we back the farmers with all kinds of money we have been doing for years and years. he is wrong on that. on this foreign policy, let's face facts. we have had our troops all over. my family goes back 200 years

fighting for this country. going all line is over to these countries, policing the world, trump is right about that. we do have bases in specific places to protect our interests. that's fine. we have had over 7000 men and women killed in afghanistan. let's end it. ander we have enough power somebody does something and we just push a few buttons and we could take at anybody we want. let's just and it. -- and it. -- end it. earlier, i said think that the decision to withdraw from iraq was a correct decision. andhe it was made poorly timed port -- i think it was made poorly and timed poorly and may have negative consequences as a result. i am not arguing we should stay in syria and definitely.

host: how do you make that decision the right way? guest: he needs to prepare the allies. there are several dozen allies fighting with us in syria. none of them were informed in advance. there was no effort to try and ensure that our allies would be protected when we left. we sent completely opposite signals about our intention, for months prior to the president's decision. there needs to be some consistency in policy. surprise is fine if you are unbalancing your adversaries but that decision unbalanced all of our friends. host: with general mattis gone, who has president trump see her on these foreign -- president trump's ear on these foreign-policy issues? who is you listening to right

now -- who is he listening to right now? guest: to a degree he listens to his national security advisor, the national security council staff and to the secretary of state, who he seems to still have confidence in. he also listens a lot to television news and television commentators. that certainly drives a good deal of his decision-making and is a source of a lot of his information. host: to indianapolis, democrat. caller: good morning. i have a question about the ballistic missiles that russia is posting about and that they said we don't have anything that was as advanced as what they are having now. ,e are so worried about a wall shouldn't we be worried about a ballistic missile that we don't

have any defense against? host: can you take a step back and explain what this is? guest: russia has tested a which is amissile new design, different from the traditional ballistic missiles. it is a technology the u.s. is also working on but has not yet tested, so they are slightly ahead on this. it is important to know that we don't have any defense against russian ballistic missiles. they could overwhelm our limited defenses almost immediately. a is not as if this created vulnerability that did not exist. both sides have recognized that the task of defending against a nuclear strike from another major power is essentially impossible and security rests on deterrence. get aheaddid russia

of the united states in hypersonic missile testing? guest: more money. and theyed testing have fewer overseas commitments that drain their resources. russia is a relatively weak power. it has an economy the size of italy for instance but it does spend a great deal on defense and has a very strong defensive industrial base. host: when it comes to other weather -- weapon systems that countries have come up are you concerned about the ballistic missile system or something else? guest: what we are principally concerned about is not the systems that china and russia have that are largely comparable to our own and by and large, our systems are superior and our

armed forces are significantly more experienced. worried about the proliferation of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction in other countries that are less responsible. north korea, potentially iran. those kinds of things. host: you mentioned china. how concerned are you about chinese aircraft carriers? guest: i think they would be very vulnerable and so first of all, the carriers they are building are not nearly comparable to the carriers we build. host: in what way? guest: been don't carry as many planes. -- they don't carry as many planes. powered.not nuclear they are 50 years out of date in

terms of aircraft technology. in addition, we have a 90 year experience in operating aircraft carriers and operating aircraft from carriers. they are still in infancy in this regard. if you are talking about what the longer-term trend is, looking out 20 years from now, china might develop a comparable capability to the united states, but it is a generational effort. host: how many aircraft carriers does the united states have right now? guest: 12 or 13. host: do we need that many? guest: if you want to continue to have carriers in both the pacific and the atlantic, a way of showing the flag and protecting power that does not require bases or a presence on sure -- on shore. riskway, that is a lower

and lower cost alternative than maintaining overseas bases. host: what is the next closest country in terms of number of aircraft carriers? is it china with, i believe, two? guest: i think it might be france. nobody else has more than two or three. host: james dobbins talking about foreign policy in 2018. let us know what your top issues are. republicans, (202)-748-8000 -- republicans, (202)-748-8001. democrats, (202)-748-8000. independents, (202)-748-8002. we will go to that independent line in south carolina. caller: we are trying to figure trump becomemr. more americanized and cared so much and he knows more than the generals. the drafts he dodged six times.

when did this happen? , i think hee border is in the concrete business and we know his motivations are the dollar. thinking that is why he wants the wall, otherwise it does not make any sense. host: to your first question, when did this happen, explain that a little bit more. when it came to his foreign policy chops, is that what you meant? was broughtway he up, when did he start caring so much? he did not want to fight or represent america. now it is america first. why wasn't he first in line when they were drafted? he was given lots of chances. now he care so much. host: got your point.

guest: i am not sure i have much to comment on that. president trump is not the first american president that did not underwaywars that were when they were of military age. host: rick is in maryland, democrat. caller: good morning. i just have to say that it is pathetic that all of a sudden thought trump wants to leave when obama was going to leave and the republicans said he was leading from behind. and he he wants to leave is broadcasting it around the world. than he goes over there in front of the troops and calls them suckers. we have people dying. this is pathetic. you don't go in and call people suckers when they are fighting.

cousins and uncles and aunts. he divulged classified information about the secretary of state. he had the russian ambassador in the white house and had a and if youcode word gave it away in my day, you would have been kicked out of the military. i appreciate people like you who keep talking. host: any thoughts? guest: no. host: joe in massachusetts, democrat. caller: good morning. i was wondering what your guest thought about the future in also whatst-putin and would happen if china tried to have a military alliance with a south american country. guest: those are good questions.

anybody has any idea where russia will go post-putin. putin is still fairly young. that post food and p -- post-putin period may not come anytime soon. that is some prospect there is a greater democracy or greater freedom. it is not impossible. putin has created a critic ,owerful machine of plutocrats oligarchs and intelligence, former and present intelligence personnel, all of whom have a vested interest in the continuity of the system. like also possible that

yeltsin essentially picked putin, putin will pick his successor when he leaves. himself toh prided protect himself. host: the caller also asked about a hypothetical chinese military alliance with a south american country. guest: i don't think china is looking for military alliances. china is not seeking to take the you u.s. role as said -- as the world's policeman. markets. to dominate the problem with our current approach to china is we are focusing on the u.s.-china trade balance. that is not the measure of

success in competition with china. the measure for success is who is growing faster and who is more successful in third markets including in latin america. china is definitely eating our lunch in these third markets. host: since he talked about the future of vladimir putin and russia, what are your thoughts on the future of nato and the u.s. relationship with its nato allies? guest: everybody is hoping that the alliance survives. issident trump, who clearly uncomfortable with multilateral commitments and multilateral -- that hass provided unparalleled peace and prosperity for the united states over this period.

i know a lot of americans do not feel prosperous but think about what the world was like before the u.s. assumed its role in 1945, to realize that we are a lot better off. host: if the future of the nato alliance is one concern or worry of yours, what else would you put in that category? i think that for the first two years of the trump presidency, despite his relative inexperience and impulsiveness, we have avoided real catastrophe and more experienced presidents and more stable presidents have created catastrophes in the past. you have john f. kennedy's bay of pigs. you have lyndon johnson's does -- decision to vastly increase our commitment in vietnam. you have president clinton's withdrawal from somalia after the black hawk down disaster.

first of all you have president bush's decision to invade iraq which is probably the worst decision any american president has made. so far we have avoided those kinds of disasters. we have tiptoed up to some of them but have avoided them. the decisions the president made just in the last week to withdraw from syria and cut our commitment in afghanistan in half suggests that this period of relative tranquility may be ending and that we will find more impulsive decisions and some of them may lead to disasters comparable to those we have experienced in the past. i hope this is not true and i don't think it is necessarily going to happen but most foreign policy observers and members of congress are increasingly worried. host: foreign policy 2018 is our topic. guest,obbins is our

chair of diplomacy and security issues at rand corporation. former assistant secretary of state. lisa has been waiting in las vegas, independent. caller: good morning. i feel like pulling out of syria was to give erdogan something to shut up about khashoggi. donald trump is obsessed with doing arms deals with saudi arabia. it is money, money, money. 15 of the 9/11 bombers came from saudi arabia. i am very concerned about trump aligning himself with these autocrats over people like mattis. he doesn't want to take any advice from anyone because he feels he knows everything. he uses slogans right out of hitler's playbook.

america first is not a new slogan. it came from woodrow wilson. is al it -- i feel like he fan of german totalitarianism. joke.ki was a idea toht it was a good turn over ambassadors for interrogation. one american president would do that -- what american president would do that? guest: i don't have any comments. host: the caller brings up jim mattis. how will he be remembered as a secretary of defense? guest: his reputation is already well-established as an adult who sought to moderate the president's behavior, sought to establish a certain framework of

decision-making and avoid the worst impulses. he of course had a reputation as a hawk, not a dove and ran afoul of obama because he was so tough on iran when he was commander of central command. attuned ton conservative foreign-policy, but he clearly was the last of the toup of appointees who tried channel the president's instincts in a more conventional direction. host: while of the other topics the caller brought up, the u.s.-saudi relationship. can you talk your expectations for the future of that relationship ended you have experience working with the saudi government in your time in the state department? guest: not much.

there is clearly tension between skepticalss who are of the relationship with saudi arabia on two counts, the first being the khashoggi murder and believing there should be greater penalties and responsibilities, and the war in yemen which the congress is determined to withdraw the united states and american support for saudi behavior they are because of the tremendous human rights and human a cherry and disasters under way. -- and humanitarian disasters underway. -- the pivot of his middle east think thend i

president has essentially adopted the saudi objectives in the middle east almost lock, stock and barrel. at all think this is sustainable given congressional resistance, there was going to be not only continued tension between the congress and the president, but also a deterioration said -- a deterioration in the relationship with saudi arabia. host: robert has been waiting in massachusetts, a democrat. caller: how are you? host: doing well, go ahead. caller: after january 3, i believe we will head into a constitutional crisis because helsinki,wers in president trump spent two hours with president putin and nobody knows what he said. you go back and look at the film. room,hey came out of that

you could see the disturbed look on donald trump's face and pruden was smiling -- pruden was -- putin was smiling. south korea, donald trump is stopping our military readiness. they need that practice up there for the readiness. do you understand what i am trying to say? one last thing. donald trump made the president of china president for life because he was scared of pruden -- of putin. host: coppinger on the globe a little bit -- hopping around the globe a little bit. guest: with respect to korea, the president did indicate he was prepared to pause a military

korea.e in south he did get something important for it, which was a pledge by the north korean leader to stop testing nuclear weapons and stop testing ballistic missiles. i would say that is a good .argain he probably stopped testing ballistic missiles short of a capability to hit the united it is clearly beneficial that he stop testing nuclear weapons. in testing on one side and the exercises in the other -- on the other strikes me as a valid trade. host: how do we get to a denuclearize north korea -- denuclearized north korea? guest: they start making small steps. they have made a few but they are not very meaningful.

we reciprocate with positive steps on our side and continue to advance slowly toward that objective. the trumpet administration -- the trump administration once a different situation where they do everything and we reciprocate only at the end of a multiyear process and they rely on us to fill our promises. that is not realistic. and experts on north korea don't think we will ever get to a fully denuclearized north korea, and that may be. they have nuclear weapons, weapons material, these can be hidden. we can find reactors and reprocessing facilities and enrichment facilities, but finding a sinker new -- a single nuclear weapon cap other material that makes a weapon nuclear, those can be hidden in

rooms. we may never know if they have fully denuclearized. partial steps would be better than none. host: you have worked in the state department for a long time. what are your feelings about negotiating with north korea in general? can you negotiate in good faith with them? i am not sure in good faith is the way to describe it. process,t has to be a trust but verify. accept commitments but then verify those commitments have been fulfilled and that is why it has to be a gradual step-by-step process, so you can verify at each stage that they have done what they have promised to do. in the past they have done significant things toward denuclearization. under the clinton

administration, they agreed to dismantle their only nuclear reactors and we agreed to give them new nuclear reactors that were proliferation proof. they started dismantling their reactors. we did not deliver all the fuel we promised. we did not deliver the new reactors we promised. theyat the same time said were dismantling these reactors while also conducting clandestine enrichment programs. neither side was living up to the bargains that they made. because of distrust of north and their human rights record and their behavior in general, it is going to be difficult for us to fill any promises to them because congress and others are going to balk at the filling those promises. aat is why it has to be gradual small step at a time process rather than the big

bang approach. host: david has been waiting, republican. caller: good morning. i would like to respond to an earlier call and i believe the gentleman said he served in the navy, but he was making reference to donald trump calling our military suckers. i don't believe that that is what donald trump was doing. i believe what he was telling those soldiers was that they had fallen victim to people who made televised decisions above them -- who made ill advised decisions about them, and that that has to change. host: let me get the full quote from the associated press. the president said we are no longer suckers folks, we are respected again as a nation. caller: that would be correct.

as far as our commitments going forward, anyone that walks the street of america can clearly see that our streets are in dire need of many things, from infrastructure to law enforcement, all kinds of things. we have a president who truly iss that message and that what the reflect -- that is what the election reflected, that spreading ourselves so thin that we can no longer invest in us as if that doesn't change, we could possibly run the risk of existing as a country going forward and that to me is extremely concerning. i would like to know what your guest this morning's thoughts would be.

historically, countries can become financially weakened as well as militarily spread too ofn, they were on the edge collapse. i would like to get your guest's thoughts on that. host: we will let james dobbins take it. aest: i think you can make case that we are overextended. i think you can make a case that we are overcommitted in the middle east and that we ought to scale back. we've gone through this before. at the height of the vietnam war, president nixon declared what was called the nixon doctrine which was a doctrine saying we are going to look to our allies to provide manpower to defend themselves, suggesting

we would provide other things. that ant the first time effort at -- was made. it was obama, not trump who talked about it is time for nation building at home. it is hard to withdraw from these places. you make commitments and promises and you have people dependng on you and they on you because you promised certain things and now you're not going to deliver. shedding these commitments is difficult and it has to be done in a very careful and carefully coordinated structured way. that is where the president can be criticized, not so much for as theire to pull back

manner in which he has done it, at least in the middle east. in terms of europe and asia, i don't think there is support in this country for a view that we should not be committed to european security at all think there is support that we should turn asia over to china. i think the question of overcommitment is largely a consensus that we ought to find a way to educate ourselves to some degree from our commitments in the middle east. host: one last call, the shell in florida, democrat -- michelle in florida, democrat. caller: i want to respond to a call someone made earlier. someone had said something on the lines of trump being basically hibbler -- basically .ibbler -- hitler allthe talent taurean --

totalitarian government start with disarming their citizens and it seems to be the opposite of this. i wonder what your thought process is. he seems to be empowering minorities by creating an environment where they can have way better jobs than before. it seems counterintuitive. i think some of the criticism of the president is hyperbole. it is exaggerated. some of the president criticisms of his critics and of the press is also hyperbole. it is also wildly exaggerated. we are in an era of wildly exaggerated claims and counterclaims and this makes the .ublic debate difficult host: in your final minute or two, do you dare to be so bold

as to make foreign policy predictions for 2019? guest: i think the message is be worried. be worried about impulsive behavior. be worried about foreign policy moves that are kate -- that are taken just to change the subject when domestic policy becomes too difficult. wondered whatler erdogan had told trump that led him to change his mind. it could be that it is just an excuse to change the subject. host: james dobbins is diplomacy and security chairman at the rand corporation. you can see his work at rand.org. morning, it is the final day of washington journal's authors series. after the break, we will talk to chris mcgreal about his book "american overdose."

stick around. ♪ >> new jersey sends for new members to the house of representatives for the 116th congress, all of them seats previously held by publicans. mikey sheryl will represent new jersey's 11th district. she discussed her service in the military. >> i began my service to this country when i was 18 years old and joined the naval academy. i went on to serve in kenya -- for 10 years in the united states navy. i served in new jersey at the

u.s. attorney's office. after a lifetime of service, i decided the best way i could continue my service to my country and new jersey was to run for congress because i am not just concerned about what is happening now. i am concerned about the future of new jersey because i have four kids and i think we have to work in a bipartisan manner to get good legislation passed to congress. a tax plan that does not attack new jersey. health care for everyone in this country. working hard to bring costs down. infrastructure spending so we can grow our economy now and into the future. i have always put this country first. i have worked with people across the country and across the world to get the mission accomplished. host: she is joined by -- you'll represent new jersey's second district. he was elected to the state senate in 2007 after previous terms in the general assembly, on the county board and as a

mayor. he is a dentist by profession. andy kimmel represent new jersey's third district. he served on the national security council staff during the obama administration. he had previously been a civilian advisor to general petraeus and john allen. -- was elected to new jersey's seventh district. he is also a veteran of the obama administration, having served as assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor. new congress, new leaders. watch it all on c-span. >> c-span, where history unfold daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy offense

in washington, d.c. and around the country -- policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is provided by your cable or satellite provider. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our "washington journal" authors series concludes with chris mcgreal. 's book is "american overdose -- his book is "american overdose" you were hoping this story of the opioid crisis in west virginia in the mid-1990's, why there and why then? was researching the book, one of the things that was most striking to me, and the book came out of my reporting for the guardian. talking to people in west virginia, which is a crucible of the epidemic and remains its the sense that it has the highest opioid overdose rates in the country.

one of the striking things to me was the number of people i talked to who were drawn to addiction buy prescriptions in the 1990's and early 2000's. this was an epidemic that begun under bill clinton's presidency and had run through george bush, george w. bush and barack obama. here we are -- here we are, finally at the end of the obama presidency and into the trump presidency before it was getting the kind of national attention it needed. to kind of go back and look at where it began, and west virginia really calculated a whole lot of elements of the epidemic but one of them was the prescribing, the beginning of the prescribing of these very powerful drugs for routine pain which helped draw people in to addiction, but the other reason

in particular williamson was it he came not only an area in its own right where there -- were a lot of people became hooked on these drugs but it became a distribution center for a whole part of appalachia and beyond as you see the establishment of one of the biggest pill mills in the anntry, and that came out of individual named henry vincent who was appropriately and undertaker. he had just come out of prison, arving four years are running gay escort agency in washington, d.c. that was busted by the secret service. he was sent back to williamson by his parole officer and he sees a business opportunity in setting up a group of doctors in an industrial warehouse as technically a pain clinic, prescribing drugs to just about

anybody who wanted them, provided they could slap down the cash. become ailliamson place to go to for a while for a decade. williamson wellness as it was called, they would just prescribe thousands of pills every day without really consulting the patients. you paid $150 and got a prescription. host: "american overdose" is the title of the book. you are a british reporter for the guardian newspaper. how is this a uniquely american crisis, as you described it? guest: a couple reasons. one is the scale. there is nowhere else where you will see the scale of death we have seen over the past 20 years. nobody really knows the numbers because early on, deaths from

opioids were not recorded often because of stigma or because they were not recognized. the cdc says at least 350,000 people are dead. the real figure is probably higher. you are not seeing that in any other country. the other thing that makes this unique is how it came about. this isn't the result of an accident. it was described by the former head of the fda as one of the greatest mistakes in modern american medicine. when you get under the skin of it, it really isn't a mistake. it was a strategy by a pharmaceutical industry to co-opt medical practice, particularly in treating pain and ensure these opioid pills became the first stop for treatment.

they were effective in that, they managed to get on board, not only medical institutions on board, regular readers like the food and drug ministration, the regulators and the hospitals. they got on board the medical profession in a big way and i think that comes out of the fact that in the united states, medicine is really an industry. in other developed countries, it is a service that is either run publicly or very strictly controlled by public bodies. in the united states, it is an industry and that is what this opioid epidemic was driven by. host: when we are talking about the opioid crisis in america, we usually have phone lines set up differently. if you have been impacted by the crisis, (202)-748-8000 is the number to join. all others, (202)-748-8001.

we are talking with chris mcgreal about his new book, "american overdose" a minute ago, you were talking about the numbers of this epidemic. this from the washington times. this chart showing the deaths 2000opioid overdoses since into the -- in 2017. you put the overall numbers in perspective over the decades you have studied this crisis. guest: they run into the hundreds of thousands. there is no doubt about that. largest numbers of deaths were from prescription opioids themselves. in the past five or six years, we have seen that change with the rise of deaths from heroin. that has been largely driven by the fact that people have found

that as awareness of the mass prescribing has filtered through the medical profession, there has been a greater hesitation and even some political control on prescribing in some states. we have seen a shift towards heroin seven because it is available and not because it was although for a very long time, prescription drugs were the easiest option and more recently we have seen the rise of fentanyl which is a synthetic opioid that has been introduced initially to strengthen heroin but more particularly, recently there was a lot of people using it directly or without their towledge it has been used fake opioid pills and prescription pills and now we it is a situation where estimated that in 2018, about 50,000 people had died of opioids and about half of those

would be fentanyl and about 15,000 would be heroin and 14,000 would be from prescription opioids. is thing about those numbers the numbers of people dying from prescription opioids has not dropped that significantly. it has just been overtaken by heroin and fentanyl. host: one other chart to show you from the washington times. this map showing the opioid epidemic across america. this is drug overdose rates in each state per 100,000 residents and you can see the epicenter they are in west virginia. 57.8 drug overdoses per 100 residents in that state. ohio with 46.3, pennsylvania with 44.3. chris mcgreal taking your calls

as we talk about the open euro crisis in america -- the opioid crisis in america. kevin is on that first line in indiana. go ahead. morning.ood i have had three close friends die throughout the years. some were high school friends and we kind of lost touch after college, so i have always been impacted by it. i am 37 years old and i have seen how it affects people. i don't know if it is so much an epidemic or enforcement issue. it seems like i got involved with some local police officers and they went out and started busting people in the sheriff tells them to slow down because they are all afraid of the gang members and ms 13 and the mafia

coming back and getting them are arresting people that are selling drugs, so i don't know if we have aso i do not know ifr have a solution, but until we stop the supply and have the right stuff for our cops to do their job, i do not think this will ever go away. host: kevin, thank you for your call. chris mcgreal, your thoughts? guest: i think there are two things going on here. undoubtedly this has now taken on a criminal element, particularly with the rise of hair when and fentanyl -- heroin and fentanyl. has created us, and the reason it is an american and instead of a global epidemic is the mass prescribing that has taken place in the united states. you have two things with that. have people who were prescribed these drugs for relatively low levels of pain for long periods when they

should not have been, or they were prescribed in large doses. significant number of people become dependent on these drugs, even hooked on them, and then they seek more, because they cannot get everything from prescriptions, on the black market, or their doctors cut back because they are concerned andt signs of addiction, although subscribing has fallen from about 20% from its peak, you still have very large numbers of prescriptions being written in this country, so you are still drawing more people into addiction. have the criminal element, you do have the smuggling of heroin and fentanyl across the border. just spent- i the month in huntington, west virginia, which is one of the worst hit cities in the country,

and they have been quite bringing down overdose rates, in part because of law enforcement. there are a lot of other elements to it, including on cutting back on the prescribing, but giving people who are addicted to these drugs access to treatment and breaking down the stigma around drug addiction, i think that is one of the biggest issues around getting help to people who really need it, many of whom don't become addicted because they began by experimenting with the drug. that is to say they took these drugs as it was prescribed to them. describing the opioid tragedy in three acts, the fact that you went through those, is that the three acts that you talk about? guest: essentially, i look at the origins of this epidemic, which is as i described to you,

but one of the things in the book and why this has gone on for two decades now is you wonder where the alarm bells are being rung. why was this allowed to drag on for so long? where were the early warnings about this? one of the things that became quite apparent, there were quite a lot of doctors out there who were deeply concerned in the very first years of this epidemic, they saw the signs. an example ofu one, dr. jane valentine, head of pain management at harvard university and its associated hospital. she brought into the idea that drugs, theeded these drugs were saying that they were not addictive, that there was a st them that needed

to be broken down, and they can be used for all kinds of treatment and pain, and then she over many years in her patients that many of them were becoming dependent, addicted, but above all, she was long-term opioid prescribing was not working for many of our patients. they were still in pain, they just needed more and more drugs. and she was also hearing from families that they were not the people that they were, that their personalities have changed, that they were constantly in pursuit of these drugs, they were spending a lot of time and money on them, and she wrote a study in the new england journal of medicine in 2003, which really should have caused the industry as the toulators to pause and say themselves well, maybe these drugs are not what they are

expectedto be, and she that would have a real impact, and it did not. there were other doctors who found the same thing. a doctor called charles lucas who was a surgeon, a detroit general, and he was saying the same thing. patients after surgery who were given large dosages of pain killers were starting to die, thewhat you see happen in early years of the epidemic is instead of the conversation being about whether these dogs are the "right thing" to be prescribing for most people, even though there are definitely people who need the, the industry is able to shift the conversation to paint the people who become addicted as abusers, to blame the victims, in essence, and to say look, we have these abusers, they should not be allowed to take the drugs away from the innocent patients

who need them, and these are the same people who had been offering to patients who get prescriptions and then become addicted, but the industry successfully turned these into the goodies and baddies. to mass open prescribing and keep selling the drugs, and this keeps going 2010, 2011, about when finally the cdc stands up and says we have an epidemic on our hands. host: a lot of people waiting to chat for you, especially those who have been impacted by the open your crisis. hayes is next. go ahead. theer: this is one of biggest frauds that have been perpetrated on people, the opioid epidemic. i am in my 70's, suffering from colon cancer. i have to go to the doctor every

month. you are subjected to your and to see ifod tests they are in your blood stream. i have never had a problem. i took less before all of the lost again to affect,. i have a net legitimate thing. we militarize our police force and everything, people are treated like animals, yet you have to have -- if you have to have a pepain pill at all. the people have been cut off, and they set up pain clinics that come from miles away, because they have done without it. same people that i knew back in the 1960's that went out after every drug that they could get a hold of them. host: got your point. mr. mcgreal, your thoughts on that. they are not designed for

need theseactually drugs, they are designed for the voice cancer. the medical profession still is not really in charge of pain medicine management. it is still controlled by the the industry and the politics now because of this epidemic. cameu look at how opioids to kind of be mass prescribed in america, because there had previously been an epidemic after the civil war and into the early 20th century, there was a cracked out this country on the use of opioids. continues for 50 years until you see the hospital more emerge in the u.k., and they use the , and they say if you

can use them at end-of-life care, why can't we use them for pain management? i think hayes is the exact person who should be given them if it is what his doctor thinks he needs. .ut would disagree this epidemic has been going for 15, 20 years, long before the police got involved. it is clear this was a pain management issue. and was driven by an industry that wanted to sell drugs. it has not been artificially created by law enforcement. host: alex is in virginia, also impacted by the opioid crisis. go ahead. caller: yet, good morning. thank you for having this discussion on c-span. the opioidout epidemic and everything, i have been personally affected herd i am only 22 years old, and i have

had a couple of friends passed away this year. they are my same age and everything. because of drug overdoses. i just kind of want people to understand that it is not only happening in these rural areas in america, but it is also happening in wealthier areas, too, like an fairfax county, one of the richest counties in the united states, there is an extreme drug problem here. and i think that the younger generations, like the one that i belong to, our moving more as well, likeam xanax, in terms of the actual i just wante, but people to kind of understand that it is not only happening in the room america but also in wealthier areas. host: alex, got your point. chris mcgreal. guest: alex is exactly right.

the cdc has a map, and you see the beginnings of the epidemic in the mid-1990's in the area of about,hia that i talked is virginia, kentucky, and it is a rend dot. it grows and gets deeper and deeper and it spreads across that park, that region of the country, and then the red dots pop up everywhere else. mid-2000's, partly because mass prescribing meds very large numbers of pills going to people, whether they needed them or not, it is not just the number of people that were getting these drugs, it was also that when they were prescribed perhaps two or three days worth of treatment, they pills,days' worth of they were left in the medicine cabinet. a couple of things that happen. one, they simply got passed around within the family.

these are good pain pills, why don't you take one? or you have other people in the family, perhaps younger people, who start to experiment with their parents' drug supply. scale of the prescribing, not only the number of people, but the number of pills given out with each prescription, meant that a lot of these pills were floating around. alex is exactly right. you see that in a lot of communities in very well-to-do communities but pretty much across the country. it so by the mid-2000's, really has become a national epidemic. host: fort worth, texas is next, james. caller: yes, good morning. . spinal cord injury that left me 100% disabled and in a wheelchair. morphinen addicted to while in the military and being treated for an injury there.

i had a little experience with it. so i do not think opioids -- and of course when i was in surgery, because i have a bagful of column full of titanium, i found that i do not have to have opiates. i have not taken them in years. i found that herbal meditations, medicine, and a little will will do it. i think it is a scam. we pay the highest cost for drugs in the free world, world,edly in the entire and we have pharmaceutical companies out there doing the same thing that tobacco companies are doing, intentionally over prescription, and they pay off doctors to prescribe it. it is a horrible thing. it is an unpatriotic way to treat the american citizen. my answer is i have suffered as much pain as any human being can suffer, and i find that i can get by. i am not out of pain, but i am not a junkie walking around with

my tongue hanging out. host: chris mcgreal. guest: yeah, i mean, it is interesting to hear that. one of the things, when you look at how the epidemic involve inv, one of the things the drug companies do is they studiously avoid any studies for long-term, what the long-term consequences are. they do no clinical trials. painpush the idea of at the least vital sign. is yourept behind that heart rate, your blood pressure, and they can all be measured. pain -- the drug companies push the idea that you should also have to address pain, doctors should also have to address pain. to give you an example, one of the areas they pushed it, a body

called the joint commission. the hospitals need those licenses in order to get federal jointg, and the commission essentially got into a financial relationship with sawous drug companies that it heading up regulations that require doctors to treat pain as a priority issue, and the drug companies end up writing the manuals for the doctors. it is one of the reasons that in hospitals and clinics, between one and 10, those are the part of the joint commission requiring doctors to address pain, and a right to manuals for the doctors, in effect. the makers of oxycontin wrote those annuals, the drug

producers distributed them. there is not really much talk about the alternatives, other means of dealing with pain, dealing with it through physical therapy, dealing with stress, or other kinds of medicine. is partly about selling pain pills, but it is also because other parts of the industry have an interest in that as well. the insurance companies looked at the pills of a cheap physicalve, to, say therapy. the hospitals, which wanted to keep the joint commission have become a patients, who saw this as a way to go, and insurance companies, which saw the opioid prescriptions as a cheap option.

push on the medical profession, it also pushed the idea that people can live pain-free. i think as we just heard, particularly when you're older or your injured, a lot of doctors will tell you you cannot ree, you have to find ways to manage pain, but they still have a promise of living in a country which is now a "pill for every ill" mentality. host: in your book, "american overdose," you talk about a lost decade, unequivocal warnings of grappling with masked prescribing of opioids and the cdc stepping up to the plate in which the epidemic could have been contained and hundreds of thousands of lives saved. when is that decade? 2000's,rom the early

when doctors like jane valentine, the journal of medicine article appears, and the now former head or then head of the cdc, dr. tom friedman and 2011. there was an epidemic in this country. of theears, that decade 2000's, that really was the decade where the epidemic could have not only been reined in but actually prevented. if those early warnings had been heard and if the industry had effectively, by co-opting, not only congress, because it spent a lot of money in lobbying and campaign contributions, but also, to be honest, regulators like the fda, which essentially was compromised by its relationship with the industry. in that decade, i think you see a missed opportunity to assess the effect of these drugs into

rain and the sheer scale of prescribers. host: let's go to bluefield, west virginia. kelly is waiting. good morning. caller: good morning. drugs that prescription are, as he stated, a smaller than the ones that drug dealers are pushing on people, but now there is a push in this country that the drug dealer smack onfirst time, a the hand, they put them in prison, but they are forgetting the lives that they may have killed or put people into situations that they cannot get out of, and instead of just giving them a smock on the hand, we really need to look at it and say hey, you push these drugs, you may have been doing it for years, even if it is the first time you got caught.

a you areshould be going on trial for murder, because that is probably what you have done, you have probably kill people. to make, there should not be a push in this country to let people off with a smack on the hand. they would think twice before pushing those drugs on the american people. host: mr. mcgreal. guest: there are states now which are pushing the idea of a murder charge for people who distribute drugs, particularly fentanyl, where they can shown that a new it was fentanyl and it leads to an overdose death. somewhere like west virginia, i was speaking to the police chief in huntington, they do not have the resources to lock people up.

becausele are dealing they are also users and they are addictive, and they have been driven down a path that perhaps they would not have chosen to go down, and those that are purely doing it for money. obviously i think the nature of prostitution would probably -- prosecution would probably be different in those cases. also, doctors prescribing on a very grand scale. those doctors i talked about at the warehouse in the pill mill in williamson, west virginia. one of them, dr. kathleen hoover, was prescribing more pills in the 2000's in west virginia's biggest hospital. one of her fellow doctors, dr. wase shaple, prescribing much less than that, and diane went to jail for six months. there is a feeling that a lot of doctors have gotten off lightly as well. there is some sympathy as well,

actually, from some of the drug police, that they got dragged into this, whereas doctors who were involved in this had every opportunity and privilege in life, and yet they still chose to go down this path just out of pure greed. host: our guesses chris mcgreal, author of "american overdose: the opioid tragedy in three acts ." taking your calls this morning. ondra, eastpoint michigan the line for those who have been impacted by the opioid crisis. go ahead. and she has0 years, severe osteoporosis of the spine, and she cannot even stand up straight anymore, and she got implants, and they wanted to do mastectomy, she had

been taken pain medication for eight years. she takes the same amount that she did eight years ago. it does not take away all of the pain, but it makes it bearable so she can stand it. so people like the drug dealers, they have no clue what the real pain is. my neighbor, she has a friend who was on pain medication. he had a problem, too, with his back, and he was taking pain medication, and the doctor was afraid to give them to him anymore, and he took him off of his pain medication. within a month, he committed suicide, because he could not stand the pain. there are millions of people that are taking pain medication. you should not have to have cancer -- by the way, my sister-in-law had cancer surgery four months ago. she was sent home with enough pain medication for 10 days. after that, she suffered terribly.

so these people who are abusing whos are hurting people sincerely need to take them. host: andrea, thank you for telling your family's stories. chris mcgill, a chance to respond. guest: yes, again, i go back to there are clearly people who need these drugs and there are clearly people that these drugs work for. what has happened here, again, because the policy has been driven by, essentially, greed, it is still not run by the medical profession. we are seeing an overcorrection, a swinging back, and doctors have become fearful of prescribing because of the consequences, because of the political climate, because they feel like there might be some reaction against the. -- them.

many primary health care doctors in this country, the vast majority, get very little training in pain management. daysmight get two or three in four years of initial medical training, so actually they have very little information on which to base their decision, frequently. they do not know very much about how opioids work. they do not know very much about addiction. and frequently, they were getting their information from a drug company's salesperson who were coming in and telling them how these drugs work and how they should prescribe them. the medical profession through the american medical association for a long time resistant that type of training. they said it was an inconvenience to doctors. went to members of congress, hal rogers and mary bodo, both republicans, introduced and acts to have doctors with

pain training, the ama opposed it. is actually the medical professions really making the that iss, and i think what needs to happen is the medical profession needs to take care of this rather than industry or politicians or anybody else. host: one last call for you, carl, waiting in kansas city, missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. had calling because i recently an operation on my hand for what they call trigger finger, and they cut a little slice in my palm, and then i was out of the hospital at the v.a., and a very short time, and they gave me 30 tramadol opioid hills, which i did not take a single one of them. i am fairly educated.

i still have them still in the package, and i talked to the v.a., who said they are good for r, so if i get a headache or a severe toothache. i do not know what to do with the things i took a wet rocks rag -- i do not know what to do with the things. i took a wet wash rag and she did to my hand and put it in the freezer. i held it in my hand until the pain went down, and i put it back in the freezer. the pain is miniscule. this one thing about making pain a diagnostic tool, what they do, they ask me when i go in there for a routine check, do you have any pain? yes, i have got pain, i am 74 years old. occasionally i work too much in the backyard and my back goes into a star them for about a day, and then it goes away. the point i want to make was when they tell you to write your pay between one and 10, they are really giving the doctor's

responsibility over to the patient, so if you are a drug addict, you are going to say 10, you will get a prescription. if you do not want them, you will say one. most people can deal with a small amount of pain. i tell you what, they just made it way too easy to get these drugs. and i am surprised, because don't get me wrong, the v.a. is with, but i am surprised them giving me those pills, it really surprised me. host: carl, thank you for the call. mr. mcgreal. guest: the sheer number of people, the phils people get has been a big problem. the cdc came up with a recognition and 2016 saying that for acute pain, which is what you have after an injury or operation, really should not get day's'an three or five worth of pills, as that is

because after five days, there is a sharply increase risk of addiction. again, it is about the convenience not of the patient, it is of the doctors in this case. the ama has proposed a reduction in prescribing, because it said it would inconvenience the doctors having a new prescription. the insurance companies do not want the doctors having to do the paperwork. it comes back the money, convenience rather than practice. final 60 seconds here, how did this book change you, through the process of researching, getting families to tell their stories of addiction? guest: getting people to tell her story of addiction was not as difficult as i thought it might initially be. for a couple of reasons. one, the people in west virginia that i was talking about her angry. about what has happened to their communities.

these drugs have devastated their communities. they feel like they were duped into taking these drugs. doctors did not warn them, they were not protected. you have a lot of people in those communities who take the pain in middle-age, from labor, from down in the mines from working in lumber, so i think their communities have been devastated, and they feel duped. the other group of people who have been very open with me are those trying to break down the stigma. their children have become addicted, and they see the stigma, particularly around heroin. their kids may have started taking these drugs because they had sports industry, they end up on heroin, and they end up dead, and they end up being blamed for the death, by the communities, and, to be honest, by the drug companies. it people are keen to break down stigma.

it is one of, perhaps, the largest changes over the last two years is the courage of people to come out and talk about what these drugs have done to their communities. host: the book is "american overdose guest 1: the opioid trn three acts." the author's chris mcgreal. appreciate your time on this morning's "washington journal." guest: thank you. you on this asking day come day nine, of the government shutdown, how has this impacted you? for federal workers on your screen can you can start calling in and we will be right back. ♪ >> the united states senate, a

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senate, conflict and compromise, a c-span original production, is during the history, tradition, and role of this uniquely american institution premieres wednesday at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific on c-span. and be sure to go online at c-span.org/senate to learn more about the program, and watch original, full length interviews with senators, view farewell speeches from long serving members, and take a tour inside the senate chamber, the old senate chamber, and other exclusive locations. >> "washington journal" continues. the: it is day nine of government shutdown. it is now within the top 10 of the longest government shutdowns in u.s. history. this government shutdown a partial government shutdown, nine federal agencies and departments affected. they represent about 25% of the federal government funding. workers0,000 federal

have been furloughed or are no longer on but jobs since the start of the government shutdown. another 420,000 federal workers are working, but they do not know when they will get paid for that work. amidst all of this on this day nine of the shutdown, we are asking you how has it impacted you? online, republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. and a special line for federal workers, (202) 748-8003. show you some of the stories both here in washington and around the country about the impact that journalists are writing about, but we want to hear from you. harry is in baltimore, maryland, republican. go ahead. caller: how are you doing today? host: i am doing well. go ahead. caller: thank you. i am just calling about the wall and the battle we are having over the wall.

we spend money to put the wall of, right? andthen we turn around, more people came across the border yesterday, a couple hundred people, offering them housing, health care, food, they have telephones. what would that be? can you find that out and see what it costs a person? in baltimore, maryland, is there anything you have seen that has been shut down, or has the shutdown impacted you? caller: it has not impacted me yet. i am a retired man, 73 years old. i am a veteran airmen. it is just amazing. we have got to take care of americans first. host: harry in baltimore. this is joe in bethlehem, pennsylvania, a democrat. caller: good morning.

it does not impact me personally. it is such an insignificant amount of money that we are talking about here, $5 billion. when you go back couple of years, when the president did the tax cut, a $2 trillion tax cut, well, $5 billion compared .25%, perhaps .5%. we want to hear what you think this morning. that is joe in bethlehem come up his opinion. joe is in indiana. from thet there shutdown, david? caller: yes. in.rk at the local ba indiana. if you ask anyone that i work with, i will go out on a limb and say probably 90% are

unaffected, and as far as the people that are actually coming here naturally, they are veterans, ai army, navy, airman, coast guard. folks, men, women, or in favor of the wall, you will get 97%, 98 or send your that is my comment. there?ny impact there is no impact to me personally. i am 68 years old, so to be working down at the army arsenal here locally. however, i do believe that this is a good illustration of the dysfunction and how it is increasing. i am happy to see that the american people are paying attention to the points that we are having record increases in voter turnout, and we are electing people who really probably should not be elected,

but they are causing enough disruption that it is causing us to wake up again. and i am hopeful that these sorts of things in the next few elections will resolve themselves. thank you. host: amber is a federal worker in lincoln, illinois. good morning. us, there hasr been a pretty significant impact. we actually found out that we will not get paid, even for holidays, potentially, which was something we do not know. with all of the holidays being around this time of year, that could come back, if they decide not to pay us for furlough, even though i am currently working, with the holidays there, we may not get paid regardless. host: amber, can you talk about in, in,cy that you work

and what impact is felt on the ground to our employees in your agency? caller: i work within the bureau -- saying weaff morale feel like we are kind of in the middle of this partisan debate, and it does not matter, you know, kind of what happens to us. we are just being used as pawns. we still have to work. host: amber in the department of justice out in illinois. earlier in the week, c-span to the time to chat with steve lake hart. the national federation of federal employees. thealked about the impact shutdown is having on federal employees. here is a bit of that interview. [video clip] greta: what areas do you represent? steve: primarily in the

department of agriculture, department of the interior. housing, urban development, a few other agencies. we have about 40,000 of 50,000 members that are affected, but that is nothing compared to the overall 800,000 federal employees estimated to be impacted either through furlough or through having their paychecks withheld over the next , potentially for the next couple of weeks. : 25% of the federal government is impacted by this shutdown that you are talking about. you represent around 40% to 50%. how are those that you represent impacted? dir. lenkart: of course they are concerned about the personal finances. it comes at a very bad time of year for families. these are all middle-class, working families. somewhere making as little as

$20,000 or $30,000 a year. some making more. but either way, they are concerned about what will happen in january when the rent comes due, credit cards, cell phones, especially after some holiday spending. so they are very concerned. again, many families are paycheck-to-paycheck your they do not have the kind of money to set aside to weather a storm. , much less period multiple pay periods. they are concerned. they are very nervous. further furloughed employees, having a little time off over the holidays does not make up for the anxiety that it causes, and it does change your life. 800,000 middle-class american families are affected by this shutdown. 85 85% ofts employees outside of the washington, d.c. area, families

and employees that will feel , this withdrawal, post holiday spending, to put a little extra money just in case this does one on for a while, into january. host: when will these folks not be a paycheck? -- greta: when will these folks not see a paycheck? dir. lenkart: it will be two weeks from now. paidal employees are being right now from the time they already works to the shutdown, so they are off the books right now. that means two weeks from today, the paycheck that would come and will not come in. or it may come in in diminished amounts for those who have been for load. so if you are working right now and you are a federal employee, your leave was canceled, you are an essential personnel, so you have to go to work. when congress opens up the full government again, they are

guaranteed to get paid, by law. it is furloughed employees. it is the 300,000 or 400,000 furloughed employees and their families that they are not guaranteed a paycheck. congress will have to change the laws so they can get paid. greta: has congress,? will they do that? they have passed a law to do that. there has been some resistance in the house. mostlyuse gop members, within the freedom caucus, that has challenged. i think it is mostly a symbolic challenge, paying employees for furloughs. we had two other shutdowns in 2018 during those times. there were growing from a house freedom caucus not to pay anyone who has been furloughed. but because of the interest of both senate republicans and house democrats that we have seen currently in this congress,

we expect that to continue into the next congress, and we are very hopeful that employees will get paid. whether president trump will veto such a bill, i do not know, but i do believe the intent of the congress is to get everybody paid once the government opens up. greta: for those who have been furloughed, these are the people who have been deemed nonessentia. they are not allowed to return to work. dir. lenkart: [laughs] right, nonessential is kind of a harsh term for somebody who does serve this country and performs a very important service. so for instance, the white house likes to point people hey, even if we have a shutdown, law enforcement is still on the job, national security personnel is still on the job, firefighters, other essential services, and that is true for the most part, but what is also true is a lot of people who service those first responders and other security employees are n't

including contractors and other employees who provide them , to logistics, and analysis keep them safe. they are now working without that support staff. so we are in a place of more jeopardy than we would be have the shutdown not happen. but theyre on the job, are taking unnecessary risks because of the shutdown. greta: when will workers who were not federal workers feel the impact of the government shutdown? dir. lenkart: i think they have already felt it. those who have tried to assess national parks for recreational have beend they closed. small businesses, the small business administration is closed. 30 million small businesses that rely on federal loans to get their business is going. they do not have access as to those loans. the fair housing authority is closed, so that will delay

homebuying, home loans, construction loans for housing. it will certainly affect markets and industries that work with the government, whether in national parks or federal properties, logging and so forth. they will be put on hold. their phone's staff for food safety at the fda. if we get another vegetable on the market that is tainted, it will take longer to figure out where it came from and to figure out what to do about it. the irs will be prepared for taxis and if this continues, willthe federal court close january 11, is when they run out of money. it will get a lot worse than it is now. we are kind of tempered because of the holidays. a lot of people have not seen properties and national parks physically closed. the economy will start to feel it very shortly if this , any reasonable time past january 3 or january 4.

greta: there is a headline in the "wall street journal" that initial impact is likely to be minimal. do you disagree with that? dir. lenkart: i would disagree with that, and it depends on what you consider minimal and what scale you are using. right now, there are federal parks that are using revenue from visitors. i mention all of the other businesses that are being affected, 800,000 middle-class families are going to pull back on spending until this is over. then yes, theoon, impact will be minimal. if this goes on for a while, i think the impact will be fairly stark. greta: federal agencies, the federalton post" notes emergency management agency said the national flood insurance program would not issue new policies during the shutdown, nightmare for would be homebuyers who need the insurance before closing. steve, let me ask you about resources for furloughed

workers. is there any temporary assistance? we talked to opm yesterday, giving sample letters to workers that they could send to creditors and banks. dir. lenkart: yep, and it is worth a shot, but a lot of creditors and banks are not particularly intereste in people's personal issues, so the burden is really on the federal employee. also in that a that came out of opium was the advice to contact a personal attorney to help them with legal issues, but if they cannot afford their mortgage or afford tothey cannot hire an attorney, so that maybe fruitless and vice. the federal employee education ,nd assistance fund, feea.org does have some emergency funding for feds who have been furloughed or are working without pay.

they do provide temporary loans for federal employees so they can pay the rent and keep the lights on at home. i recommend to people if you are in need of that, go to feea.org. time to issue those lines, so the sooner the better if you see trouble coming. is a: steve lenkhart director of the national federation of federal employees, thank you. host: 9:49 a.m. on the east coast this sunday morning. about 10 minutes left on "washington journal." on day nine of the government shutdown, hasn't impacted you? phone lines for republicans, democrats, and independents as usual. we have a special line for government employees, (202) 748-8003. give us a call, let us know what is happening in your part of the country. james, columbus, ohio, democrat, go ahead. caller: i am calling from the interior of the country. we have not experienced any issues with the government shutdown, although i am not a fan or supporter of the

president, i support his move. we do need a wall. it is part of a comprehensive strategy to control immigration. if you look at israel and other countries that do have walls, they are successful. it is just one prong in a multifaceted approach. obviously, we need reform on several different fronts. i do think that we need that. i think the shutdown is being caused by the democrats, who are obstructionists. they need to come to the table and negotiate in good faith. we need a border at strategic locations where we do not have geographic boundaries that serve as barriers to entry. if we had a border or a wall, i do think we would have less illegal immigration. i think democrats and republicans are both the same. they need to come together and do what is right for our country and not blame each other for

something that is so obvious any. we spend $200 billion a year on defense. we have 800 bases throughout the world. for $5 billion, it is a pittance , so i support what he is doing, and i think the government shutdown, let it go on until this is resolved in the best interest of the country. host: that is james and ohio. this is steve in northampton, pennsylvania, an independent. state, what is happening? caller: good morning. i would like to know why nobody is addressing the issue of the funding that was proposed years ago and just recently, like, two or three years ago, and they are arguing over the $5 billion. todoes not make sense to me hold the united states as a political on from one party to the other. this i can see from the independent point of view. on the street going to work everyday do

support the wall or fence, whenever you want to call it. now, they have these funds appropriate already, numerous times, and the democrats had gone along with doing it, and now they are changing their minds. they are holding the americans for plans that are going to kill us monetarily wise. now they are talking about the markets. they are trying to affect the markets in the way consumers spend, and the average american sees this as nothing but a farce. the left-wing part of the democratic party has destroyed the democratic party. and they need to get their act together, because this is needed. god for bid somebody comes across the border that actually s a nuclear device and sets one off. thank you for your time. host: steve on the democrats

line, north carolina. caller: good morning, john. number one, this shutdown is affecting all of us, especially if you have money in a 401(k), a mutual fund, or a pension plan, because this is not stop. here are a couple of things that nobody really wants to address. people are calling and talking about the drugs coming into the country. if there were not americans demanding these drugs, it would cut off the supply of it. people talk about illegals taking jobs. illegals would not be coming here to work if people were not hiring them, so go after people hiring them. people talk about people being guided here as sex slaves. in america was wanting sex slaves, if there was no demand, there would be no supply. you need to look at the american people. also, i think trump has allocated $12 billion to subsidize farmers here, so why

not just take $5 billion out of that $12 billion, and i really do not think those farmers are going to complain, because the vast majority of them voted for trump. that is my two cents. thank you, john. host: that is steve in north carolina this morning. here is a story out of washington, d.c. tourists.oom for d.c. they had been spared from the shutdown that had furloughed theyands of employees, but will lock visitors out of tourism mainstays like the national zoo, american history, the national museum of african american history and culture. the smithsonian with some 4000 employees who would go on 1 joiningfter january the about 380,000 others who are currently on furlough. about five minutes left on this

"washington journal." of course we will be back here tomorrow morning. tomorrow morning, we will be continuing to talk about the government shutdown but also --nt a lifetime with callers a lot of time with callers fromssing 2018, hearing you about the stories, and public policy issues from the past 12 months that you want to talk about on tomorrow's new year's eve program. for that.you join us until our program and's today, we are asking you -- has been shutdown impacted you where you live? rose, nashville, tennessee, republican. go ahead. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? host: i am doing well. caller: first of all, it has not affected me at all. life goes on. i agree with the callers from ohio and pennsylvania 100% with what they had to say. i am thoroughly disgusted with congress.

congress should not be getting paid, and they have probably already been paid. they left town. i blame that on both, republicans and democrats. maxine waters is in the bahamas or somewhere, nancy pelosi and hawaii, everybody is enjoying their vacation, and they work for us. they should have stayed in the sea and gotten this thing -- in ic. and got in this thing doubt. we do want the walter and we spent of dollars defending other countries and their orders. we want to end chain migration, we want the visa lottery system, and we want this fixed. sickening how the politics are playing just because they do not want to get president trump what he promised us, that we would have the wall. and as far as mexico paying for the wall, with their new nasa negotiations and everything, we will end up, mexico will end up paying for the wall.

they are not going to write us a check, but there will be other ways that mexico will pay for the wall. the whole thing is just disgusting. i am tired of hearing the media go on and on. it is just all discussing to the average person out your living. and the shutdown, one other point, i heard essential and nonessential government employees. well, i cannot think of any company anywhere in the world that would hire nonessential employees. they are either essential, or you do not need them? so what is the deal with labeling essential and nonessential? i do not get that. host: essential employees are the ones who have to work during the shutdown. although they do not know when their paychecks are coming. nonessential employees are for load and have been since the shutdown. we have time for one more call.

jim, richmond, virginia, independent. good morning. caller: thank you. i appreciate y'all's show. my concern is quite different from what i have heard anybody else say. first off, it sounds like a bully in the play yard who is going to take his ball and go home if he does not get his way. i do not think that is right. i do not think that is right. host: anything you want to add, jim? caller: yes, yes. back.d to stop and look we came over, we took this land from the indians, and we made rules so can anybody take it from us. i grew up on a farm. i moved from the farm to the cit and got a job to better my life. nobody is telling me to go back to the farm. these people are trying to better their lives. and these so-called people who'

same to be religious need t stop and think a minute -- is that what a good christian person what do? you want to keep somebody from bettering their life? host: that is jim in richmond, virginia, the last caller on today's "washington journal." we will be back on new year's eve to talk about the top news stories of 2018, join us at 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 a.m. pacific. in the meantime, have a great sunday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] . >> up next news makers with congressman john yarmuth and new york representative nita lowey talking about the democratic for the next congress. then we will have portions of

hawaii.y tour of after that journalists discuss u.s. immigration policy. >> when the new congress takes in january it will have the youngest most diverse class recent history. new congress, new leaders. atch live on c-span starting january 3. >> on news makers we will talk who will ouse members take off committees nita lowey will chair the propositions of ittee and john yarmuth kentucky will take over as budget chair. -- reserve uth yarmuth will control the was ranking 2019 member in 115th. in budget process kicks off january when the president submits his budget and they from the e data congressional