mostly the other. but i think what we ought to be more on our guard about are the institutions in the ferguson -- in the federal government that are validly benign in their intentions. the federal reserve, the department of the treasury, the securities and exchange commissions. these institutions set up as benefactors the public. increasely they are not so. james grant on "q & a." >> costa,ning us, robert a moderator for pbs's washington week. thank you for joining us. sets the stage.

tell us what is new right now. guest: mike pence was the main one involved, others involve kiersten nelson and nancy pelosi. progressnot make much over the weekend. where we stand on monday morning, i spoke to vice president pence on sunday night. the administration maintains they want 5.7 billion dollars for a border wall across the u.s.-mexico border and they are talking about a steel barrier versus concrete. is that a concession? it depends on who you ask. detailed immigration funding requests across the government for humanitarian at the department of

homeland security to deal with migrants. they have detailed all of these different things. the position has not necessarily changed over the weekend as these negotiations have unfolded. democrats continue to say they are open to these discussions immigration policy across the federal government, but they do not want to have those negotiations until the government is reopened. the administration does not want to reopen until they get a border wall. where are we heading? we are heading towards the president declaring a national emergency. people inside the administration say they believe that is where this could head this week, with the president use that kind of declaration to force the issue. it could be dramatic or not. that is where we are. host: who do you think is advising him on getting to this

position? guest: there are hardliners like stephen miller, one of the top domestic policy advisers, but the president listens not only to his advisers in the administration, that there are people in the outside and conservative media he is hearingg to and he is people rally around this position. why are they doing this? they feel the president is boxed in. how does he move off of his border wall demand without appearing to his base like he is caving, at the same time, he needs to get the government reopen if he wants to have a functioning administration at some level. there is a belief that declaring a national emergency brings that view to the forward and the public debate. some people are identifying with

this national emergency idea. democrats have skepticism about the way the administration is portraying this. was skeptical the way the administration was framing this debate. they were using the migrant influx at the border as a way to get what they want on the wall and not addressing it in a bipartisan way. untilrobert costa with us 9:00 and to take your question on the current situation on the shutdown. democrats, (202) 748-8000.. republicans, (202) 748-8001. 748-8002.ts, (202) the shift from a concrete wall to steal, you highlighted that. what was the thought process hind making that change? itst: it is a way to make

look like they are making a concession. a wall is a wall. this debate has been stuck in semantics for some time. democrats know and republicans know there has been certain kinds of barriers alongside the border for a long time. not a massive wall, but barriers. there has been funding for barriers. the administration has made the idea of a wall a signature promise for this president that they are trying to fulfill that promise. they know democrats do not want a wall. speaker pelosi has called it and immorality. you are seeing the president trying to navigate these dynamics. he knows he cannot let his base be disappointed. at this point, democrats believe they have leverage. they are newly in power and they are saying to the president, this is not just about the wall. it is about the whole year.

both sides feel if they break right now, it will define the year for them, that they were the ones who blinked first. host: if i were a congressional republican, how tight am i hanging onto this with the president? trump is calling peter kane, that is revealing, he is trying to keep moderate republicans from breaking. you have susan collins in the up for cory gardner reelection. they are calling for the government to be open. republicans calling for the government to be reopened. and otherepublicans moderates voted to reopen the government. the challenge is not just convincing the country and democrats it is a national

emergency, the challenges convincing republicans to hold with the president. pelosi brings up bill after bill, republicans and swing districts are under pressure to may be vote to reopen the government. mitch mcconnell and the senate is going to protect his members. republicans, if they start breaking away and say it is time to reopen the government, that will weaken the administration's hand. the administration, when you talk to top people, they know the window is small. maybe a national emergency is a way to force the issue in a drastic way right now. the longer this drags on and bill, passes bill after

they are aware republicans are going to say enough. if food stamps are affected, more people are hurt because have are closed, if you tax refunds, once you involve money, taxes, political pressure could increase. that is what we will have to watch. if republicans come on tv and start using the same language trump is using, which this is a national emergency, we know the republicans have political capital, trump is in a decent position negotiating-wise. democrats are watching every moderate republican closely. the minute the crack gets wider, the democrats are going to say we are never going to budge. host: our first call, spokane

washington, laura, republican line. good morning. it is good to see a reporter there. what would you define as an emergency? rest oft pelosi and the them seem to think they can take our president and country hostage over their fetishes. money, notaxpayer's hers. the president has a far better knowledge and wisdom than anybody in the democratic party. i would like to know what your definition of an emergency is if we have thousands of people dying and you don't want to do anything to stop it. guest: my definition of an emergency doesn't matter. i am a reporter. what matters is how you see it as a citizen and a matter of how

the country sees it more broadly. that is the debate. the vice president kept coming back in our conversation on how he sees the migrant situation at the border, as a crisis, because people are coming up from central america, because of the way he believes the border patrol is underfunded. he defines it as a crisis. crisis-likee moments at the border because of what is happening with people coming up from central america. matters isand what many leaders see the same members areblic articulating at the border. top democrats believe

republicans are using it as a partisan cudgel to get sweeping .mmigration policy and acted both parties can see the facts of the number of migrants coming up, the number of people coming across the border. those facts exist. the solution is what is being debated. how do we define crisis? that is what the administration is trying to say. if they cannot get the democrats convinced it is a crisis, you may see the president demand an emergency. hehe does believe this and declares an emergency, there could be consequences. what happens if the army corps of engineers starts to dig a wall at the u.s. border?

no one has seen this happen before. is there an architectural plan for the wall? guest: what makes it complicated is there are wall-like structures on the border. the president has looked at concrete structures, there are that havesteel slats see-through areas. his versionthat is of what he would like to see with the wall. the reason the steel conversation keeps coming up, the concrete wall reminds people of the berlin wall and they are trying to make it seem less ominous. i have not seen one democrat speak up and go -- now that is you seel proposal, what

is the administration not wanting to go along with border security, which is immigration security members -- measures that do not have to do with a security like funding. that is what the democrats would like to see more money to. republicans understand this. that thed administration lays out 800 million. they would like to see that added to humanitarian aid at the border. it is something democratic aides have discussed. they would like to see money for that. democrats do not want to talk to thedding $800 million budget until the government is reopened. the administration is trying to draw in and entice democrats who want to talk about the wall if other money for programs was

talked about. make newmp officials offers, seek novel ways to deal with impact. congratulations for you for taking over. you have done an excellent job. i get most of my news from c-span and pbs. could you change your set back the way it was when you had that roundtable. different colors right now. you like the orange set? that's fair. caller: it was awesome and you looked awesome in it. if you could keep checking for statements so people don't make statements that are not true. stations say things that are not true and they do not correct

them. guest: i would not agree with your blanket statement about cable channels. there are good reporters trying to provide facts. you have the right to your opinion, of course. we have a new set. the new set, still is in her model of focusing on the reporting and conversation. that is what we are continuing at the show. with regard to fact checking, washington post has a fact checking operation that is first rate. others work on that very hard every day. , it is important for contextsts to make sure is being provided at every turn.

context is being provided. it demands viewers and readers to do as much. sometimes the onus is put on journalists to guide people and that is fair. that is our job. i challenge you to make sure you read more, think more, and not expect people to your spoonfeed you information and to get information. you can make the right kind of judgment. host: on our independent line, ron, hello. to me there iss no provision in the constitution for a government shut down, but there is a provision that a bill is placed on the president's

desk, the president signs it or it is vetoed. back to vetoed, it goes the house, back to the senate. it does not appear that has been done. as far as the wall goes, i don't know, i don't care if it is built or not. i don't believe it will do any good. i don't believe the american people should be held hostage when there is a provision in the constitution to take care of this. thank you. of the vetorms override, you could see house democrats pass something and you could see the senate passed something and put it on the president's desk. if he decided to veto it, it is his right to do so. there could be a veto override. why is that not happening? house,ts control the

republicans control the senate. you don't have mitch mcconnell trying in any way to put this kind of political pressure on his own president by taking up a house-passed bill to reopen the government, using senate republicans who are vulnerable and then putting that bill on the president's desk, a president who is known for lashing out, then hoping he signs it and going through the process of a veto override. mitch mcconnell, that is not his style. could he do it? certainly. you will not see him take up a democrat bill from the house and throw it on the president's desk. bill, thepassed the senate has had that opportunity for a while.

mcconnell is not the kind of person who will have a major veto override process. shutdown drags on, there could be pressure on mcconnell to give people a chance to vote to reopen the government. for the moment, it is about our republicans going to hold or not? you have a lot of concern growing across the economic and financial community with the department of treasury. , let'se people saying separate the department of homeland security funding, put it on its own islands, keep having that brutal site month in and month out and fund the rest of the government. may start saying bill after bill, fund the

treasury. up,ave tax refunds coming the irs under a lot of strain. we have a debt limit coming up that needs to be extended. are they not going to fund the treasury? it puts moderate republicans in a tough position. ame of your voters may want wall, but if you are up for reelection in a swing district, you may vote to reopen the treasury. pelosi is going to see how many people she can peel off this week. this is going to be a contest. can speaker pelosi figure out a way to break republicans down? can trump come up with a way to convince the country there is a crisis? one of those sides is going to make more progress than the other. hank, south carolina, republican line. go ahead.

do you remember the pbs documentary, 15 or 20 years ago, court of shame, a certain section of south carolina. i live in that corridor. a bunch of schools, some only have 200 or 300 students. hasy school in this county two or more second-language teachers. get are so bad, they cannot spanish teachers in the united states. they have to get them from other countries. ,aybe you can write an article maybe you can get somebody to

thee an article about shortage of second-language teachers for our students. we are paying property taxes for all of these students and they are just on the margin. host: thank you. guest: i appreciate the suggestion. it is an interesting idea. we will look into it. host: carmen, hello. your guest just said republicans are using [indiscernible] down the government. i respectfully disagree. this is not about opportunity. this is the cause itself.

our programs, the beneficiaries are african-americans or hispanics. the beneficiaries are not russian, chinese, nigerians. that is all i have to say this morning. guest: appreciate the perspective. host: this was the house meet theleader on press. one topic that comes up is the topic of impeachment. [video clip] >> i don't think it is inevitable. that is not what we are focused on. we have to focus on getting the government open. you think impeachment talk is a distraction? >> i think it is a distraction.

we will have to see what the mueller report says. nancy and i have both said that. we have voted that way. we want to concentrate on our agenda and make sure we get reforms done on redistricting, voting rights, ethical reforms. it seems many democratic leadership feels the same. what does that suggest about what goes on in that topic? guest: house democratic leaders want the control of their conference and they want to keep some of the more left-wing members calling for impeachment already, brad sherman of california, rashida tlaib, who made the expletive laden remark about trump and impeachment last week. that is hovering over the new , but democratic conference the democratic leaders know,

having served in congress in 1990 eight and 1999 with president clinton, the way impeachment plays out, it can have an unpredictable element to it where you don't know how it will politically play with the country. you want to proceed carefully so it doesn't look like you are using impeachment as a way to rally your base or appease your base. using. the tone they are they are going to wait for robert mueller to make his final conclusion about russian collusion and the possible obstruction of justice. trump declares a national emergency on the border and you have an uproar among democrats who think the president is abusing his power and you do not have a conclusion from robert mueller. this president is going to test

this democratic party. speaker pelosi may want to hold back impeachment talks, but the more he acts in ways that aggravate democrats, it is going to be harder for her to believe she can control this impeachment conversation. that is something she will deal with the whole year, this new wave of younger democrats -- host: who may not be okayed with that position. guest: they dislike trump. part of the reason they swept the house is trump being unpopular in their district. it will be interesting to see how pelosi can hold that off. she knows what she is doing. she believes the president is boxed in on immigration with the wall. wall, can stave off the she can break the republicans on getgration, maybe she can

him to work with her on infrastructure, prescription drugs, try to be the president who is not known for being ideological, can may be play ball on a few issues, and let the committees bring everybody up to capitol hill, not just on the russia probe, don the epa, these different agencies, the departments. democrats can bring anybody up. they want to not just impeach on to russia probe, they want paint a picture of an administration that is pretty tough and they want to pull up the carpet of this administration and show the thathe last few years they may not know about. tot of the way to do that is do committee after committee hearing before you do impeachment. the national political reporter of the washington post

and host of "washington week. political analyst at nbc news and msnbc. dorothy is next on with our guest from cleveland. guest: i really enjoy you. i see you on pbs and i also see you on msnbc. one thing i like about your reporting is you report factually. what i want to say about this wall is this. forgetting mexico was supposed to pay for the wall. and the people that want this wall have to take into consideration that you have -- [indiscernible] and everything to build this so-called wall. with the shutdown, all these kids and the people locked up in cages at the south border is the crisis.

to say is that we had a lot of opportunities to come out with an immigration package which would have been could haverybody and avoided all of this. but the republicans refused to take it up. the $25 billion that they were going to try to incorporate. there were so many opportunities to fix this immigration problem. on the air, to get especially the president, and say that 4000 are crossing the border, scaring the american people. these people bought it. scaring the american people and telling them that they are going to do this, they are going to do that. a lot of them bought into it. host: ok, caller. thank you very much. thank you for your

perspective. you talked about an immigration deal and the republicans a few , even more recent than that, talking about an immigration deal. thisyou look at administration, your point is provocative. reporter, the administration in 2017 the opportunity to do a daca deal for a border wall. you had democrats talking about protecting children from deportation in exchange for $25 billion for a border wall. the administration because of its hard-line conservative position on immigration balked thehis even though president has made noise about .his, they said no that was 25 billion dollars.

now they are talking about $5 billion for the wall. as the administration looks back, they may wonder. do aresident decided to tax cut instead of infrastructure first. do that because they control both chambers of congress and decided to muscle through some more traditional legislation. what would it have been like if the administration had taken the democrats offer? wall actuallyder be built right now if that deal had been done? is so much about timing, understanding the deal that is in front of you rather than the deal you may seek. the art of the deal, the president has had opportunities to bypass that.

democrats are saying, no thanks. for the walldaca has come up in conversation in recent weeks. that both sides have done again -- have dug in. your point is reflective of where the country is. some people say the administration plus handling of the border -- the administration's handling of the border is a crisis. some people say upcoming immigration is a crisis. as a reporter, there are totally different views about how they see the border. is most interesting to me not just how people see the border, but how this administration politically has handled all this. they said no in the past. host: houston, texas. republican line. caller: i wonder if you would

has said anything negative about barack obama when he promised reforminggned on immigration in his first year in office. he said it over and over again. was oneering if there reporter curious enough to ask president obama if he was going to resolve the issue. he had a super majority and did nothing. don't we look back at history instead of crushing trump on every single paragraph? it drives me nuts. you are not objective. your job is to go after trump, go after trump. i wonder how many times you've been to the border? have you been on horseback? have you been in a helicopter? have you talked to border patrol? i wonder if they will be on c-span sitting across from you. guest: i appreciate your

perspective. i am a nonpartisan reporter. we report objectively on the washington post and on pbs we have a nonpartisan discussion. we do not take sides and you have a right to your view. relevant point. president obama, when he had control of both chambers of congress, did not achieve much on immigration. just like president trump did with a republican control house of the senate. president obama pursued health and and climate change other issues. the stimulus package. in 2013, the republicans and democrats have beginning of a and immigration talks that fell apart. there was an effort to address .mmigration

senator rubio try to be a leader there. the whole thing collapsed -- senator rubio tried to be a leader there. the whole thing collapsed. i remember talking to mr. trump who was playing -- paying close attention to those failed talks. 2014arted making moves in for a presidential run in light of immigration in 2013. they were trying to do moderate reforms to immigration and she thought the voters wouldn't be with the party on that so maybe he could be the republican that took a far more conservative position. comments, respectfully, are part of this charged debate. immigration remains the most charged debate we cover. people wrap up the issues of the border and national identity, the economy.

there are strong views on both sides. this is what both parties are dealing with in washington. people have passionate takes on immigration. passionske out these on the press, their lawmakers, elected officials. this is the environment in which the debate shutdown unfolds. host: what goes through your mind when you see stories as of goay, that joe biden might for it in 2020. guest: you go from the shutdown to biden. he is talking to his advisors. senator warren is already in iowa this weekend. vice president biden has to make a decision in the coming weeks. will he be in this race were not? there is only so long you can rate -- will he be in this race

or not? there is only so long you can wait. even though she's not going to is partxandria cortez savvy,democratic party, making moves. thator warren is signaling she is with them even though she is from a different generation of democrats. trail --the campaign he needs to make a case for himself. biggest appeal is that he was vice president to barack obama. president obama's legacy lives on. he remains very popular.

that brand, politically, is powerful. but the biden brand solo has had difficulty in the past. he tried in 1988, over multiple decades. only as vice presidential candidate, he caught fire. is seen as someone that can connect with working-class voters. is andustrial midwest place where democrats have to come back. ohio, pennsylvania. klobucharown, senator , those people are talking about the voters. has talkedsey publicly about a possible 2020 bid. biden keeps telling people that

he is the front-runner, the best person to take on president trump. but he has to prove it. it will be a competitive primary. even though he was vice president for eight years, he will not have the same kind of front-runner status that secretary clinton had. she was challenged by senator sanders, but she always had so much of the donor class and party leadership class with her. biden has a lot of support but there is not a groundswell to make sure he is the nominee. he may be waiting for that groundswell. but in this new dynamic where people within instagram feed or twitter feed can have 2 million , youmillion followers can't sit back and hope it comes to you. host: what do you think elizabeth warren faces? what is the biggest hurdle? is still facing

questions about her heritage and her native american dna test. she was able to turn the conversation back toward economic populism and fighting the wall street banks. this is a message she has cultivated for years that populism is ok. populist,ing i'm a and economic populist with a different target. atsident trump took aim immigration. senator warren saying she's taking aim at wall street. --re people had a more union she's talking about an america where people had more union jobs. industrial, more union based. she says she will have tougher regulations on banks. she's speaking to the trump swing voter. you may have been tempted by president trump in 20 and can i

tempt you back by topping -- talking about economic populism? agent, someone to be a populist force, they are waiting for someone from the left to make that argument. she is out there early. she's not waiting around to see what vice president biden does. she's not waiting to see what senator gillibrand or what senator sanders does. she's saying i'm going to go set the tone. had a perfect last six months, to say the least. out there. you have to be in the arena fighting for the nomination to win the nomination. in utah, the independent line. appreciate c-span and i appreciate you, robert. the honesty you bring.

been to republican calls and one democrat call. 50% is independent. two independent calls for everyone of those every oneparties -- of those other two parties. how is the shutdown not dereliction of duty? -- they are not representing the people. they passed a spending deal in 2017 that did not find the government. there was not a budget included in that. they were supposed to have a budget on october 1 of every year. how are they not breaking the law on a constitutional level?

is the vote every four years or six years the only say that we have? your frustration with congress is not surprising. approval ratings in the congress have always been pretty low in recent years. the issue facing independents like yourself is that we have a two-party system in this country. you may not feel like you have a place to go, politically. the right has moved toward president trump and maybe the democratic party has moved too far to the left. will be what we're watching in 2020. michael bloomberg is talking about running in the them a credit party but is quite centrist. could john kasich decide to run as an independent and appeal to voters that are more center-right?

could senator corker or senator , could they run against president trump to offer an independent type voter an option to make the republican party grapple with the idea that they have moved to close to president trump. -- too close to president trump. both will have primary candidates that skew towards the center. it takes a lot of money to run as an independent for president in this country. bloomberg is the best chance to have a major independent candidate. someone like ross perot who would have the money to get on the ballot. is sayingloomberg that it's probably best to run inside the democratic party. trump -- president

people think he is the most independent candidate we've had in years. he chose to run in the republican party because it was really the only path to power. we haven't figured out a way for independents to truly have a seat at the table at the debate and on the ballot. that will affect this country for years to come until it has a debate about opening up the system. host: from michigan, hello. bob, i would like to timess -- on the new york , the people involved with the shutdown our people. but they are calling in sick.

the reason they are calling in sick is they don't have the money to get to work. have you researched that? guest: yes. thanks for the question. there have been numerous reports about some federal employees, particularly at the transportation and agency who may be calling in sick because they are dealing with different financial issues. or they are just frustrated. this is something that has bubbled up in reporting across-the-board. a federal employees having real .ifficulty with their furlough not getting paid if the shutdown continues. that is something the president has to confront as he went to camp david on sunday. he was asked, can you understand the struggle federal employees are dealing with? as you might expect,

he fully understands. that is something he will be tested on. not just about getting a wall. but can he hold back employees from having a revolt? a massive people calling in sick? who knows? but it shows you frustrations are mounting. peoples insecurities about finances are mounting. creates a boiler, politically, that president trump can't avoid. federal employees have issues, the more the government isn't functioning. the more there are political consequences and policy consequences. we will be keeping an eye on that. host: the president released a couple of tweets. with all the success our country , theving with job numbers totally dishonest media has never been worst. many have become lunatics that

-- who have given up on the truth. we must bring back honesty to journalism. as a reporter on the other side, how do you react to that? guest: i'm not surprised. it is language the president has used before. it is unfortunate the president uses the phrase, "enemy of the people." we are not the enemy of the people. as my boss often says, as reporters, we are not at war. we are at work. respectfully, i would say we are doing our work as reporters. reporting on the administration, reporting on the shutdown. could, you are welcome to a critique of the press. we have the right to investigate anything. you have the right to say whatever you want.

i would argue we hope to have a civil debate. the press is not the story. presidents on both -- the story is the story. it is what the press is covering. using the press as foil has been politically helpful for decades. trump is not the first. a the president going to find way out of the shutdown? that's all that matters to the country. that's all that matters to me as a reporter. he has his critiques. he's made them before. he made them this morning. duly noted. host: caller from north carolina. caller: thank you very much for having me. and mr. costa, what you have

been talking up out -- about with people calling in. about theg to ask you party you were just mentioning. there are two parties. the democrats and the republicans. the democrats and the people you said would be running for president, if this keeps going and the american people that have voted for president trump that's going on throughout the united states of america. the democrats will not give in. like anti-pelosi said, we will said-- like nancy pelosi the other day, we will give one dollar. she said yes, i would give one dollar. in regards to each and every person, we will stand up for all

the american people in washington. but getting to the border wall. would really think about it, the immigrants come over here to work. they do. like trump has said. he acknowledges that they can come and work and go back. you look at nancy pelosi, she doesn't even live in the district she serves. if you look at her home, she has a wall 20 feet high around her property. host: in the interest of time, what do you want our guest to address specifically? reporters --o the why do you all not report what is actually happening in washington?

guest: i appreciate that thought. look. think about the last two years. held the house, senate, and they hold the white house. there were plenty of opportunities to pass legislation with regard to a border wall. they pursued tax legislation. it is something the administration is still pursuing. , but it two years wasn't put on the table. it was tough for republicans to come along. democrats elected to control the house because they oppose the wall and oppose president trump. now they are coming to the democrats a couple months after winning power, opposing the president, and the president

says you have to help me on the promise. politically, that is a tough thing to throw at the outset of divided government. the president may believe he could break the democrats. he could declare a national emergency. but the expectation that a wall -- that the democrats will say, yes, sir after they have won the house of representatives on something their base sees is against american values, it is an unreasonable expectation that it will unite all parties. the intense opposition to the wall israel. -- is real. in the republican party is real.

the president had the opportunity for two years and believes he can leverage the democrats by talking about a crisis at the border. the democrats feel that they don't need to budget this moment because they have power. they think the president is flailing. both sides are digging in. that's where we stand. host: a tweetdeck in from the justin from the msnbc show hardball. the dissent has become a near daily discussion throughout the broader republican establishment. post: mitt romney wrote a frustrated with president trump's character and conduct in office. especially foreign policy. he doesn't like the president removing troops from syria. former romney a hawk,

republican nominee. he matters because he's a former republican nominee. he is coming up the president with a high profile. in the former nominee seat of power on capitol hill saying, enough of this, president trump. senators love this op ed. republicans didn't love it. some said that he's a little out all them -- out on a limb. what does he have to lose? is in define he opposition to president trump on many fronts. it sparked discussion about 2020. does romney run against president trump? report be badller or something happen with the economy, maybe.

romney, to them, is the best option if the trump residency ever collapsed. presidency ever collapses. just because there is chatter doesn't mean it can ever happen. but romney will be a key figure as the shutdown continues and the president continues to deal with speaker pelosi. , that will bey the question on many reporters lips. to as the looked voice of the republican establishment. host: what are you paying particular attention to this week? guest: vice president pence is having lunch on monday with president trump. someone who has been dealing a lot with senator schumer, who

has been in all the meetings over the weekends. pence will communicate where things stand. is there a deal or not? will there be a national emergency declared or not? tweetesident with a against the media is signaling he's not taking a softer approach. i will reiterate, do republicans stick with the president or not? the moderates say enough. as with speaker pelosi is watching. host: