spend an hour with brad meltzer. we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter as well. "washington journal" is next. as the snowing, continues to fall in our nation's capital, the partial shutdown of the federal government now entering week four. the house gaveling on tuesday. so far, no new negotiations are scheduled as the white house and congressional democrats hold firm with neither side budging. we welcome you to c-span's "washington journal." also this week, the senate judiciary hearings forinning william barth who served in the

administration. yesterday,nt waiting first promoting his appearance on fox news and then saying i am at the white house waiting for crying chuck and nancie to call so we can start helping our country at the border and from within." we want to get your comments on the president calling this a potentially national emergency. our phone lines are opened. (202) 748-8000 if you support the shutdown in the claim that it would be a national emergency and if you oppose it, (202) facebook and us on twitter. a lot to talk about. this is the headline from the wall street journal editorial. trump's presidential emergency. probably has the legal authority but it is still a bad precedent is the editorial from the wall street journal. here's part of what the journal is writing. " presidents over the decades

have invoked emergency power sometimes grounded in law though often not. while the president may need to act with dispatch abuses of executive power prompted congress to pass the national emergency act back in 1976. the law requires the president to activate his powers under one of 130 or so statutes that authorize executive emergency action. republicans rightly criticized barack obama for governing while president might be on sounder footing then president obama when he legalize millions of undocumented immigrants he would still be spending scarce military funds to fulfill a campaign promise. we want to get to phone calls but reaction to this possibility on capitol hill. the new chair of the senate finance committee, chuck grassley of iowa. [video clip] >> the president is threatening emergency action.

national emergency declaration. i don't think he should do that. i think it is a bad precedent and contravenes the power of the powerthat comes from the of the people. .hreatening it i don't understand why there can't be a compromise here from the standpoint. we've already decided in march -- billions dollars for border security. the president thinks he wants close to six so normally you split the difference on almost any appropriation bill difference between the house and senate. host: the commentshost: late last week by senator chuck grassley, republican of iowa. this from the hell.com, trump is hill.com,he trump is right. he says "until congress has the

will to change the asylum laws and fix the other legal loopholes it would be foolish not to better secure the southern border in the meantime. when nancy pelosi and chuck schumer won't tell you is the u.s. currently has more than 650 miles of physical barriers and fencing on its southern border. they also won't tell you prominent democrats including schumer, hillary clinton, president obama, voted for it as senators in the name of border security. let's get your phone calls and reactions to this idea of a potential national security emergency is both sides holding firm. tom is joining us, spring hill, florida. caller: good morning. i support the idea. it's obvious that the democrats could care less about the safety and security of the american people. in the beginning they were for border security and now they show zero interest. more concerned about immigrants

coming in because that is a short vote for them. with this socialist idea they're pushing for and their socialist .gendas they could care less trump is for the american people. it's pretty obvious. host: artery joining us from , joining usdrey from macon, georgia. caller: first of all, i am so tired of everybody calling in blaming the democrats. i am a democrat. noting knows what i feel that may. as for the wall, you don't go out and wave a magic wand and a wall is built. i oppose the wall and the shutdown and i oppose the fact that they keep calling these immigrants illegal aliens like they are talking about et or someone from outer space. these are people and if they are

talking about a wall for security, look at what's going on in airports right now. air traffic control, tsa not working, here is all of your terrorists, drugs, anything they want to come into the united states is on the airplanes right now because of the shutdown. trump don't have the government shutdown for the american people. it's for himself because he hates to lose and he wants to put his name on a wall. let him put a name on his wall behind prison for all the mess he's doing to the united states for this country. host: thanks for the call. you mentioned government workers and this is the story available l.a. times.com. among the roughly 800,000 federal employees who gone without paychecks over the last three weeks since the shutdown began are tens of thousands of border patrol agents, customs and border patrol officers, immigration judges and coast

guard crews. workers on the front lines of the border security problems the white house and congress have been fight over. full story available at l.a. times.com. brian is joining us salt lake city, utah. your thoughts on the possibility of the president declaring this a national emergency. caller: there's just a lot of ill-informed people. you guys want to learn something, go to the blaze. they have a thing called the vault. it tells the history of our country and that's how you learn about america. people on the border, they can go to their bank and say there's a shutdown. borrow me some money it's going to be reopened and pay it back. ,t's too simple the democrats they are playing politics here. i'm so grateful for donald trump being our president because he is not a politician. he's trying to dish the swamp.

are they so rich? and drives me nuts that these people become politicians and become millionaires. they are working for us that. trump reminds them we work for the people. that's what he's doing is working for us. host: thanks with the call. senator lindsey graham basically said the president should declare this a national emergency writing the following. speaker pelosi's refusal to negotiate on a barrier even though the government were to be path tos the funding for a border wall or barrier. it is time for president trump these emergency powers area i hope it works. he will gavel in the committee on tuesday for the first of what is expected to be two days of information hearings for william the attorneyed as

general during the last year of the george h.w. bush administration and nominated by president trump to be has attorney general after he fired jeff sessions. we sat down with paula read about william barr, what he brings to the table, pro-c-span's podcast the weekly available on the free c-span radio app. check it out at c-span.org. linda is joining us from mississippi. good morning. caller: good morning. i oppose the wall because it's not an emergency. donald trump had the house, the senate, the presidency, for two years. if you wanted a wall built. republicans did not want to give it to him. tantrumhild throwing a he wants a wall he promised mexico would pay for. those 800,000 workers need their

jobs, neither money. he did not care. the people who voted for him within the 800,000, they will see donald trump is in free housing, eating, drinking, eating mcdonald's, and does not care about their plight. but in 2020, if he lasts that behind is going to have to go. host: from janice, tweet saying i blame democrats for being structure this and the past republican congress for doing nothing. i stand with the president for standing strong with his convictions. fromup, james pennsylvania. he your view on the shutdown and the president potentially calling this a national. -- a national emergency.

caller: good morning america and good morning c-span. i'm from pittsburgh, my name is james and i believe we need an independent party. the mike ross and republicans are ridiculous -- democrats and republicans are ridiculous. the last military blunder i studied was the ss indianapolis. it was supposed to take the bomb over drop it off and go back. those guys were executed in the ocean for five days. not only that, so many military blunders. we need an independent party to get together and stop all this ridiculous stuff. host: we will go to adam joining us from new york. you support the president and the shutdown? caller: yeah. good morning. your program to this important issue. i do support this wall and this shutdown. our house and our president and

-- establish this wall in order to prevent immigrants coming to our country illegally. help usit will in most cases. it would be better to spend , not in othercase cases like for example giving groups ofpposition iran or something like that. we must pay iney our country they give them in order to overthrow iran's regime. i think it would be the most beneficial idea to support the wall and not to waste our money in other cases. call fromks for the new york. we welcome listeners on c-span radio. our question is whether the

border wall is a national emergency. do you support o oppose the idea? we say good afternoon to those viewers in great britain and across europe. the president on twitter yesterday also saying he's waiting for as he put it brian andk -- crying chuck nancy -- [video clip] >> when i took the oath of office i swore to protect this country. my administration has elected congress with a detailed proposal to secure the border and stop the criminal gangs, drug smugglers and human traffickers. democrats and congress have refused to acknowledge the crisis. hopefully we can rise above partisan politics to support national security.

this is about whether we fulfill our sacred duty to the american citizens we serve to finally, after all of these decades, secure our border. host: that, from the white house tweeted out yesterday by the resident. this is from jim, tweeting the following. the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. security of our nation has to be the first priority. president trump is doing the right thing. larry joining us from memphis, tennessee. why do you oppose this? because thepose it liar in chief is lying. anything he says and does. i can't wait until next month. on to find out a lot about the liar in chief. host: tom, your next from tipp city, ohio. caller: good morning.

i agree with this national emergency thing. if he gets away with that, the -- gunssident can do killing kids and national emergency. , lindsay've done is things arema queens going down. host: the editorial posted on friday at wsj.com from the wall street journal, from presidential emergency. he probably has the legal authority but it is still a bad precedent. "if mr. trump did win in court a president elizabeth warren might take the president as likened to circumvent congress when it is

expedient, income inequality could be declared national emergency. the media would cheer them on. warnings about an imperial trump presidency have not been borne out in his ofinistration use abuses executive power had been legally careful. that from the wall street journal -- careful. " that from the wall street journal. caller: i oppose this. it does not make any sense. my brothers and sisters, i was stationed at andrews air force presidential support in the past. i've seen her my civilian brothers and sisters and military rose and sisters are having a hard time, going through all this stuff. democrats could give him a little bit of whatever he wants and republicans need to get off there behind's and give the man something.

just stop this. stop the people from being hurt because people can't even pay their bills or anything. it is sad to see this on tv and it makes me feel sorry that i set up their answer my country to have them get together and do something like this. host: a live view of capitol hill on a very snowy sunday morning. the first significant snowfall of the season. upwards of 10 inches expected before the end of the day and up to a foot south of the city. every snow across the midwest including in st. louis. back to your tweets. this from tina who says i do not understand why he waited until now to fight this fight. he had the house, the senate and the white house for two years. why wait until you know it won't happen and blame incompetence on the democrats? on thursdayt traveling to the border wall visiting mcallen, texas. the view as he met with order patrol agents for the wall street journal.

matthew from new york, welcome to the program. caller: good morning. -- verydonald trump is big problem. i think the important issue , trump is shaping the global economy. bank's recentrld year -- bighe next .roblem changing tontries

our country very soon. for republicans i would say something honestly that the more problem -- there are more problems. american presidents have been changing policies for all the world. host: we will go to david joining us next from middletown, new jersey. caller: good morning, c-span. the best channel on television. good morning to you. host: good morning. how are you? doing not too well. but for an old man i'm doing fantastic. say as far as the wars concern, the most important thing is the unity of our great country.

criminals are the problem. we have to get the criminals off the streets and put the criminals away. most of the people who come here are hard-working. escapeep trying to regimes that are brutal. my parents came here from russia and i grew up in this great country. as you well know i've served in world war ii. my generation is known as the greatest generation. we've the greatest generation because of three words, we the people. we all did what was best for each other and that's what we have to do today. i'm deeply disturbed by the amount of -- there is no compromise in our congress.

we have to get together and do what is best for each other and things thatout don't affect us. -- i feel what we have to do, we have to do what is best for each other. we are americans and this is the greatest country because of the american people. host: david, we always enjoy hearing from you. i hate to ask you, your 94? caller: yeah. i will be 95 in two weeks. 95 years young in two weeks. host: you sound great. caller: this is the greatest country in the world. let's keep it that way by doing what's best for we the people. host: will do. david, stay healthy. we love hearing from you.

caller: best to you and all the viewers. i'm optimistic that things will be better. take care. host: happy early birthday. richard joining us from carlsbad , upper early on a sunday morning. why do you support the shutdown? caller: it's $5.7 billion. my question is, what percentage of that is the total? how much is the spending package that they want president trump to sign? host: it's $5.7 billion? . caller: the overall package that was supposed to be signed before christmas, how much spending is that? host: what you are talking about was the budget for the other agencies that need to be funded through the end of the fiscal year. as no disagreement on that. disagreement is the $5.7 billion for the wall. is 5.7 billion

dollars a tiny fraction of the total? host: politico did a story on the economic impact of the shutdown, it is on average costing the american economy $1.2 billion a week so we are quickly approaching where the losses equal to what the president is asking for in terms of the impact on the economy overall. caller: ok. host: this is an editorial from the san francisco chronicle. the hometown newspaper for the new speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. trumps shutdown without causes with the editorial says writing, even republicans in congress are getting tired of serving as trump's apprentices. representatives voted with democrats three security department and two republican senators expressing support for funding the government immediately. despite the lack of public and

political support for trumps means and and his idea negotiation appears to be offering the building of a steel barrier in lieu of a concrete wall he promised his rally audiences. he has yet to make the slightest concession of his demands for the $5 billion down payment on the wall much less on the other immigration issues that could give democrats a legitimate reason to spend more on his vain monument to xenophobia. trumps shut down without a cause, the editorial from the wall -- from the san francisco chronicle. caller: i am in favor of the wall. i believe you just quoted about trump does not bend an inch. i have not seen the democrats give an inch and you just had a announcingian castro his running. as he was leaving people were in his face, cameras in his face.

there was no wall, no offense, no security between him and the crowd. a perfect example of why you need a wall. why you need security. why we need to protect our boundaries. thank you for c-span. host: the new chair of the house homeland security community, bennie thompson, our guest on the newsmakers program. we talked about the department of homeland security, the wall .nd the funding dispute newsmakers airs at 10:00 eastern time. [video clip] >> accessed the core of engineers funds would put commuter is at risk already being ravaged by floods wildfires and what have you in many of the projects associated with those natural disasters are being remedied with those corps of engineer funds. i would hope you would not do that. nonetheless we have three branches of government.

if the executive branch chooses branchthe legislative can do its will, either pass a resolution saying we need to go to court and challenge it individuals can challenge it in court and obviously the judicial branch will look at it. i hope for whatever reason we don't get to that point i hope president trump's advisers will man-madethis catastrophe on the border is not something emergency declaration should be all about. host: democrat bennie thompson for mississippi, new chair of the house homeland security committee. online anytime at the span.org. dual, the the reporting of volleyball with house speaker nancy pelosi.

the president of the united states as both sides continue to stand firm. no new negotiations scheduled. senate returns tomorrow. the house coming in on tuesday. the shutdown now entering week for, the longest shutdown in u.s. history. arcadia,oining us in louisiana. caller: good morning. kidney a moment or two because i'm really upset. let's be truthful and clear. this is no crisis. trump ben mcconnell are responsible for this continued shutdown. they want to be dictator. republicans of the and democrats have agreed to open up the government and do it without wall funding and debating it at a later date but mcconnell will not bring it to the floor of the senate.

mcconnell is not doing his job. the solution is to impeach this criminal trump and put him in jail. the democrats have repeatedly nuttyto work with this president from day one. he said he would take responsibility for this shutdown. let him. it is not the democrats' fault. host: thanks. from louisiana. co-authors of the piece inside time magazine saves not just about the wall, is about trump's future and infamous meeting that took place in the oval office mid-december with the president, vice president, incoming speaker of the house nancy pelosi and chuck schumer. jim is joining us, pleasant in mississippi -- kansas, i'm sorry.

good morning. you're on the air. please go ahead. caller: what i was going to say about the wall and trump was anytime you're dealing with trump you have to watch the money. one of the things i would like to know is who's going to supposedly going to build the wall? what he's asking for is a $5 billion slush fund. he backed off the emergency thing because he was talking about what the army corps of engineers going in and building a wall. you can't grift those guys but if you got $5 billion earmarked by the congress just sitting there, who's going to get the contract to build those walls? it's trump and his buddies. nothing but a leg ripoff. the government shutdown, any time you enter some sort of contractual agreement, even if it's verbal and it goes to court

, one of the things that argued is an expectation of service and it seems to me these guys should not be allowed to shut down the government. what is that about? how can they shutdown the government? host: thank you for the call from kansas. a piece from time magazine as the new congress takes shape the 116 congress, the class of 2019 looks more like america. this tweet from jodey on the government shutdown. it's always been simple since -- until donald trump changed his mind. now it is an emergency. dave is joining us from denver. caller: good morning. i'm dave from colorado. i bring another perspective to the show. i'm an american indian. i belong to the nimby tribe -- i am part of the navajo nation.

the true americans, i wish you would have them announce what tripe they are from and what nation they belong to. i could see where everybody is so against building the wall because there ancestors are not buried here so why should they care? my ancestors are buried here and we did not have to build a wall. we've been here for 15,000 years and never had to build a wall. ask china if you don't believe me. host: washington post depicting the president as "a crybaby." you can read the full post at washington post.com. another tweet from michael weiser maybe trouble as the mainstream media to televise any additional negotiations on ending the government shutdown. barbara joining us from upstate new york. your views on all of this.

caller: good morning. i oppose this. i think it's ridiculous that the government is still shutdown due to the wall. .t's not going to work i'm glad the democrats are standing ground and i hope they continue to do so. host: thank you. albuquerque, new mexico. good morning. .aller: good morning god blessed c-span, the united states constitution, the institutions that hold as this abomination in the white house. come on. the lying. , i negativity, the hatred listen to kamala harris goodness. oh my an awesome individual. -- what an awful individual. come on.

host: thank you for the call from mexico. kamala harris, the senator from california expected to announce next weekend either on or around martin luther king day. all percy spans wrote to the white house coverage we will have more coming up later in half-hour. government shutdown, how much longer can mitch mcconnell sit it out? democrats say the senate majority leader has advocated -- abdicated his responsibility and handed the keys of the castle to trump particularly by blocking votes approved by the democratic led house. i have dozen or so republican senators have indicated they might support reopening the government without border wall money. .his from senator dick durbin he thinks he thinks he's losing

his caucus and does not want to vote on the floor. his caucus is pretty tired of the shutdown. more details at l.a. times.com. president asked about the idea a nationalg emergency. the latest on what he said on that. .> it is the easy way out but congress should do this. two simple. too basic. congress should do this. if they can't do it. if at some point they can't do it, this is a 15 minute meeting. i will the claire a national emergency. i have the absolute right to do it. it says as clear as you can. i will be sued. it will be brought to the night circuit and maybe even though the wording is unambiguous just like with the travel ban, it will be appealed to the ninth circuit and will probably lose and hopefully we will win in the

supreme court. host: that, from the cabinet room of the white house late last week. jim has this tweet. i'm pretty sure the trump wall construction company will ripoff america. another from mark saying no wall, no deal. send us a tweet at c-span wj. allentown, pennsylvania. .hink if her waiting, tom you support the idea of a national emergency? caller: i do. i think the reason it's becoming a national emergency is because of nancy pelosi's refusal to accept facts. i heard that in meetings with secretary nielsen she outright .tated i don't accept the facts a fact by definition is something that can be proven true. her refusal to negotiate whatsoever, i agree with lindsey

graham. that's what makes a national emergency. host: let's go to kevin next from rockville, south carolina. caller: good morning. glad you had someone on finally that supported the shutdown. i completely support it. i'm tired of chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. nobody elected them president. a handful of people in their districts elected them to their office. i think the president is doing what is right for the country. i can tell you there is a national emergency. what do you call people throwing rocks that are border patrol ,gent and bashing their heads raping their women, bringing drugs over here. they keep saying talking points on cnn and touch, the drugs that are caught are coming in through the ports of entry. areones that are not caught coming in where the wall should be. host: another viewer saying i

have no doubt question is whether president trump is knowingly on or not but be patient and let mueller complete his investigation. reynolds or will be joining us from fort lauderdale. his latest book is called the first conspiracy. the secret plot to kill george washington, coming up and i :00 eastern time, 6:00 for those of you on eastern coast. debbie, from flint, michigan. caller: good morning. and you remember us having a crisis that somebody had to get on tv and convince us there was a crisis? concept think the whole of a crisis, the crisis is mitch mcconnell thinking he is better and more a to run this country than people we have elected. for 10 years. you want to complain about the democrats not jumping up and agreed to the president, what about for eight years that's

what the republicans did? it was a ok then. be careful when you make these moves republicans and democrats i don't always agree with what they do believe they do the same thing to you you deserve it. host: thank you for the call. see no evil is the cover story at cq weekly. growing tolerance for corruption in washington available online at cq.com. pat from jupiter, florida, good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say i am for the wall. a lifelong independent and florida resident and i'm tired of all of this never ending partisanship. i watched a show on c-span 3 the other day and they have dea agents and border patrol agents and they are asking for the wall in addition to technology and other things they wanted for their safety and our security.

so i do support the wall. host: the wallhost:, writes kathleen parker at washington post.com, is a testament to trump's toxic narcissism. read it in today's washington post. kathleen parker writes, not a 2020 is of for grabs the wall must go up. trump supporters deserve our sympathies though many disavow his behavior yet remain committed to a conservative supreme court they had stopped defying logic -- defining logic in defending the on it -- untenable. back to your phone calls. donna, good morning. how much snow did you have in st. louis? caller: a ton. about a foot. host: we are getting it here too. caller: you are lucky that

you're getting it on sunday to friday. host: from what i understand the eye of the storm, st. louis was selected in the middle of all this. caller: my daughter's car is still part nutrition works because there's so much snow to get her car home. host: nice and warm and thanks for was feis for watching the washington journal. caller: i have about three thingscaller:. most people support securing the border. not necessarily a wall, but more surveillance, drones, military, whatever it takes. not too many people really support splitting of families paychecks keeping from hundreds of thousands of middle-class families for many probably don't have rent money or homeland money and one third of them are veterans. that almostetting

$2 trillion tax cut for the rich republican donors, trump should are used that money for the wall if he wants it so bad. ,ut other than our president who has no morals, mitch mcconnell won't even bring these things up for a vote because he knows they will pass. why is this guy getting so much money for doing nothing? i would like to know the answer for that. host: donna, enjoy digging out of the snow. thanks for calling from st. louis. caller: thank you. host: from the editorial page of the new york times. with barr, will justice be done? the senate has of questions to ask william barr for voting on confirming him as the next attorney general. not only has he already come perilously close to reassuring mr. trump that the president did not affect justice by trying to derail the investigation into whether his campaign conspired with russia to corrupt the 2016

election and a special counsel robert mueller was overreaching but he also has a long reaching history of advancing an aggressive conception of present for power. the editorial from the new york times. we will have live coverage beginning tuesday morning on the c-span network also on c-span radio and on the web at c-span.org. joe from north charleston, south carolina, good morning. caller: i hope you and your family had a good christmas. we had a good time. couple of things. i want to talk about the politics of the situation and go on to the importance of recording as people especially a large influx from anywhere, the south or not. i am an independent so a few years ago the democrats, we've seen all the videos, the democrats calling for better

border security and now that the administration has changed, we don't need to move in a direction. and that's one of the reasons trump was elected. that washington division and that's what he calls a. anybody they apply reason, logic and common sense would state that we need a controlled light of entry for whetherflux of people from the south, the north, the coast, whatever. it's necessary for the good of the people coming in, not to mention the good of the united states. people have to be process properly. you may find people are ill. we need to know where people are going because undocumented people are not included in the census. the government doles out money to various communities, various , variousor whatever

social programs based on the numbers of people and know where they are. we know children need education and the government is going to educate the children. if child goes to school the next year and we got 500 people in the school we were not -- we did not know we were going to have, that is an emergency. to move on as regard to the cost, i went back to tax records. i cannot find 16 and 17 for some reason but in 2015 we had 141.2 million taxpayers. to $42.50 work out one-time charge for a taxpayer to pay for that wall. it would be done and over with. i don't know if we will ever get there. we need to be able to take care of people in the only way is to know how many are here and where they are going. it affects our infrastructure,

health care, police forces. thank you for your time. host: thanks for calling back. this is from another viewer saying to trump supporters know where the money would come from if trump announced a national emergency? ofm funds saved in case actual emergencies. trump supporters continued to boggle the mind. julian castro, former mayor of san antonio, texas and former housing secretary in the obama administration announcing his intention to seek the democratic nomination. his first campaign stop, puerto rico tomorrow he will speak at the latino victory fund. the republican national committee present one of the main arguments likely used against mr. castro calling him "a lightweight without experience needed to be president. castro brushing off concerns that he is not as experienced.

in my whole life ahead of the governor started out as the front runner. more on his speech. [video clip] >> i'm running for president because it is time for new leadership. it is time for new energy and new commitment to make sure the opportunity i had are available to every american. in the years to come we must go forward as one nation working toward one destiny and that destiny is to be the smartest, the healthiest, the fairest and most prosperous nation on earth. [cheering] >> again, in this 21st century we must he the smartest, the healthiest and the most prosperous nation owner. demanding anything less is a failure of vision. achieving anything less is a

failure of leadership. host: julian castro announcing his intention to seek nomination including according to politico read the full story at politico.com or follow all of this as part of our road to the white house 2020 coverage. lastbeth warren in iowa weekend. check out the schedule at c-span.org. joe in honolulu, good morning. most know where you are, i'm sure. aloha.: here's the deal. cost of illegal immigration is about $46 billion a year. wondering all these congresspeople and senators they all get a little extra money from their lobbyists.

i wonder if the drug cartels are lobbyists in washington. you think that might happen? morallyk they are all really good people like nancy pelosi, did she take a lot of money from ipo's? wake up. we are losing this country. host: thank you for the call. this is from san antonio express-news. an opinion piece saying our brave border patrol agents and law-enforcement officials tell us a walk is essential to achieving true border security. the experience of democratic nations confirm walls when manned by committed men and women can quickly and even the .ost violent of border crises the success we've had with our own walls along limited actions of the border prove they can cost-effectively strangle the flow of illegal immigration.

in ohio, good morning. caller: good morning. it amazes me, we seem to forget a lot. solyndra?e remember six months later they are bankrupt. it is filed bankrupt. all the investors were paid. all democrats. i don't like trump. we got to choose the lesser of two evils again and we all voted for trump. trump is our president. he is a businessman. his done something which is unheard of in washington. doing what he said he's going to do. i lock my cars and doors at night. i don't want nobody breaking in. i'm a veteran. you need a wall for protection. who would send a company out without putting up a perimeter?

these people in washington are out for their own special interests. how can you make hundred $70,000 a year and be a millionaire within a few years? host: a new -- the front page of the washington post. a new survey, 53% of those blaming the , thisent for the shutdown morning press washington post story. and that is joining us from texas. the president declaring is a national emergency? caller: absolutely. we lived 20 miles away from the border. this gentleman quoting about this is why she locks his cars and his house, he's locking it from his neighbors.

he doesn't with you on the border like we do. there's no one throwing rocks here either. the only reason they are growing wants is because of border patrol agents and sure are antagonizing them. .here's no rockthrowing not a national security. we live here. there's no national emergency that needs to be where he's going to cut out everybody's paychecks that they have to earn . they are working in people need to get paid and need to be fed. there's no emergency here. i'm not surprised some of these people calling, people that don't know what's going on at the border. you have to live here in order to understand what's going on here. all this talk that trump is is just brainwashing you resolve all he's doing. mitch mcconnell should be ashamed of himself for allowing

him to behave in this manner. all of this is ridiculous. emergency national and i live right here by the border. time magazine, ronald in philadelphia. caller: the neocons want to steal more money from the people. set up this thing, sent nikki haley down to honduras to build a caravan to come back here to for up a fake skews blackwater to get more money from the federal government. suspect one called so many tricks on these people. the only wally needed is the one he's behind. a look inside the cover story of cq weekly.

shaking hands with the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell. vice president mike pence who ofk in 2014 was critical president obama with his executive orders when he served as the governor of indiana. -- every past president allocated billions for border security. president toe only follow through due to the negligence many lives were tragically lost during this delay. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. wall and ior of the agree with the caller a little while ago from south carolina. so grateful that we have a president that will take a stand on this. doors at night and our homes, our vehicles, to

prevent intruders. how many caravans can this country take? you let one in and the next thing you know there will be hundreds more coming along. it and i have to say i'm from upstate new york. i have chuck schumer is my senator and i am disgusted and embarrassed with him. he's playing politics. he is a hypocrite. back in 2009 he and president obama,- i mean president emphasized the need for a wall. now he's flip-flopping. he's playing politics. hopefully they can come to some sort of agreement. host: we go to rejoining us next. good morning from san francisco. caller: good morning and got less you this morning. the first time i have happened to -- you're getting everybody a

chance to vent and god bless you for that. what is wrong with everybody? this man is a psycho. this man is sick. this president, talking about best president we've ever had, this is the worst mess we've come across in all my days, 70 years on this earth. everybody better wake up and do something. this man has done nothing but spew hate from the time he's been elected. if he is not the center of sick to her we are stomach. everybody better wake up. this is a dangerous man. host: governor mike pence, the governor of indiana, criticizing president obama back in 2014. the story from usa today. mike pence speaking on a panel in 2014 attacking the idea of

using presidential powers to act unilaterally in the face of congressional opposition. the then governor of indiana sent barnstorming around the country defending such measures is not leadership. governor pence of the time saying leadership came with negotiating and finding common ground. read the full story at usa today.com. chris joining us from north carolina. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. my point of view on the one, ient shutdown, or used to work in construction. it's been a home on a paycheck. during the wintertime in construction unit two or three months without a paycheck and no one is ever upset about that because we knew to put money back to prepare for that.

border,no crisis at the when trump went down to the border line was border patrol standing there on live tv saying there is a crisis? host: chris, thank you for the call. we have our own survey, though unscientific, you can join in ansi standard at. so far 71% of those in the survey saying the border wall is not a national emergency. the remainder say, yes. share your thoughts on c-span wj. jonathan, from glen cove, new york. caller: sorry, i called in on the online. i don't believe there's a national emergency. i think donald trump is inventing a national the do something he's not a lot to do in the same way he invented a national security threat to impose tariffs the constitution says he's not allowed to impose.

i have an idea for the wall. since donald trump is a billionaire and such a great builder why doesn't he pay for the wall? he can build the wall and afterwards if he's right and it turns out to be a resounding success congress can pass legislation to reimburse him afterwards and donald trump's wall american taxpayers will pay for everything else. host: thanks for the call. caller: from inside the new york times. twin impasses affecting politics in great britain in the u.s.. the vote in the house of commons on brexit. the vote theresa may is expected to lose. the deadline to reach an agreement between great britain and the eu is the end of march. it could be the end of what many call it hard brexit without agreement. the debate over brexit in the u.k..

donald, uganda get the last word from beverly shores, indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. the one thing i don't hear nobody talking about, the reason we need this wall, if we do not stop immigration now i don't think people realize, look on their paychecks when they pay ,edicaid, when it's all gone what are they going to do when there's no money left? i don't know about other people that i worked hard for my money and they are giving it away $70,000 a person a year how long do you think we can sustain that and when they tell the american people to have nothing left when they going to do? the senate gaveling in tomorrow at 2:00. more on this idea of a national emergency, just what authority does the president have? coming up, matthew dallek is going to be joining us, a

professor at george washington university, to talk about the history of such declarations. later, another roller coaster week and things are looking up on the market but are we in a bear market? us.n farzad is joining that a thompson on newsmaker on whether the president to declare a national emergency across the southern border. here is a portion of that conversation. [video clip] likely thengly president will declare a national emergency so he can use funds from the army corps of engineers to start building this wall without congress. in your view, does he have the legal authority to do that and regardless, what steps can a democratic house take to curtail that action? >> first of all, i hope president trump does not declare an emergency declaration. accessing the corps of engineers

risk puts communities at that are already being ravaged by wildfires, hurricanes, floods and what have you and many of the projects associated with those disasters are being remedied with corps of engineers funds. i would hope he would not do that. nonetheless, we have three branches of government. -- if theive branch executive branch chooses a path, the legislative branch can do its will to pass a resolution saying we need to go to court and challenge it. individuals can challenge it. obviously the judicial branch will look at it. i hope whatever reason, we don't get to that point. i hope that president trump's advisers will tell him that this man-made catastrophe on the that ans not something

emergency declaration should be about. i would say to the president, this is not the way to go, holding those 800,000 federal employees hostage in terms of making them work without pay, should not be a part of this discussion. from what i gather, it is seriously under consideration but i would say to the president if he asked me, he should not do it. host: c-span's newsmakers program follows "washington journal" at 10:00 eastern, 7:00 for those of you on the west coast. we welcome back matthew dallek, professor at george washington university in the political -- in the graduate program of political management. let's talk about this idea of a national emergency. what qualifies for that? guest: it is what the president says it is.

1970 six national emergency act, there is no single definition. 1976 national- emergency act, there is no single definition. historically, things like -- applyingiffs sanctions, terrorist attacks, the president declared -- president obama declared a national emergency during the swine flu. is up to the president and that is why so many people are concerned about this unlimited authority the president seems to have when it comes to declaring a national emergency. -- what other arguments are the arguments you have been hearing? basically turning the senate into the house of representatives.

it president trump does declare a national emergency, what would prevent a democratic president from declaring a national emergency for health care or gun violence or other issues? guest: the courts. congress does have a path to overturn the emergency. the problem is both houses would have to pass a resolution. the president would presumably veto it and they would have to override the veto. it is highly unlikely to happen. politics, public opinion, the courts could all conceivably step in. not necessarily on the grounds of what constitutes a national emergency. they could step in and say that the remedies that the president has proposed, in this case appropriating funds from the that he isof defense not allowed to do that, that this is unconstitutional, he is doing an end-run around

congress. and is yet to be determined no one knows what the supreme court would do or say. host: this is a chart from cnn. this would be the 32nd national emergency. 31 already remain active in the u.s., dating back to jimmy carter. guest: what happens is under the 76 act, presidents every year have to renew the emergency. in a sense, when george w. bush signed a national order and declared an emergency after 9/11, he continued every year to renew it. barack obama renewed it, president trump has renewed it. year after year, it gets renewed. congress could step in theoretically but has never done it. a lot of experts who look at act which was6 designed as part of these

to reinergate reforms in presidential power, it has failed. not just 130ceded plus provisions that a president can activate, but also provided no effective oversight for what constitutes a national emergency. host: walk us through the process. if tomorrow, the president declares a national emergency to begin construction, we would he get the money from? what would the courts do and what could congress to? guest: we are in uncharted waters. this would be the president saying in a battle with congress saying i cannot get this done, therefore i am going to do an end-run around congress. there would be a national emergency and he would attempt to either from the department of defense, unallocated funds or

use a different provision that would take money designated for natural disaster recovery and tried to use those funds to build a wall. pretty soon, they would be a couple of things that would happen. andhouse might take action tried to pass a resolution overturning it but parties affected by the attempt to build the wall would begin to file lawsuits and these could be people who hold property on the property might be seized under eminent domain. there may be environmental concerns. democrats in congress could file. there would be a slew of legal challenges. my guess is that it would take months if not years to resolve. it would ultimately end up in

there aree court and many different opinions from legal experts about whether this would withstand legal scrutiny, whether this order would stand. some say the president could do this and get away with it other say no. the reality is the supreme court 5-4 conservative majority would have to decide the matter. host: if all that were to take place, could the wall construction begin or would that be put on hold? guest: it is unknown question. -- it is an unknown question. the logistical hurdles are massive. issues,e environmental topographical issues, eminent domain issues. my sense is that it is hard to

see how in practice this wall is going to be built. in theory, if the courts uphold the national emergency that trump declares and if you were but i reelection, then ok saw one estimate that said it would take 10 years to build the wall. the idea that construction would start tomorrow, the day after he declares the emergency, my guess is that some court somewhere would probably stop the construction of the wall while this issue was being litigated. this would drag on. we should think of it in terms of the politics. the president to go to his base and say the courts are blocking me but i am doing everything i can. that would be a kind of political answer to give to this political policy problem that he has created. host: our guest is matthew

dallek, a professor at george washington university. our phone lines are open. we want to hear from you. (202)-748-8000 is the line for democrats. (202)-748-8001 for republicans. (202)-748-8002 for independents. you can also send us a tweet. the president traveling to the border on thursday and before departing he had to this -- he had this to say. [video clip] >> i have the absolute right to declare a national emergency. i am not prepared to do that yet but if i have to i will. i have the right to declare this. when you say was it passed by congress, it was. other presidents have used this, not terribly often. i have the absolute right to declare a national emergency. i have not done it yet. i may do it. if this does not work out, i probably will. what debate do you think

is going on internally? we have heard jared kushner advising his father-in-law not to do it. we have heard other senators like lindsey graham say go for it. guest: my sense is that there is a dynamic which is hard to know who trump is listening to. he governs in this chaotic way. my guess is that there are a number of conservatives who have said they worry about the precedent this sets. you raise the question what happens if there is a democratic president in office? a democratic president could say climate change is a national emergency. public health. national single-payer -- national single-payer health care. anything the congress does not give the president, the president can in turn possibly declare an emergency and tried to do that. others are saying look, we are

losing this fight politically, a majority of the public is against shutting down the government. people are hurting all over the country, not just federal employees but also farmers and ranchers and recipients of government aid. this is a way out. let the courts deal with it. a certain your power and then you can kind of move on, say to your supporters that you are doing your utmost to the fill your campaign pledge. lawyers whoe are are advising, here are the authorities you have and maybe you can't do it. there is a robust internal legal debate as well and it is kind of chaotic the cousin we are in a pretty unprecedented zone. , at: one of the opponents republican from texas saying i

am opposed to using defense dollars for nondefense purposes. it seems to me we ought to fund border security needs on their own and not take it from other accounts. let's get to your phone calls. susan in florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. i had a couple questions and a comment. number one, i do not feel that any president should have this much power, regardless of side. we are looking like an authoritarian dictatorship. secondly, can someone please differentiate between the words immigrant, migrant, refugee/asylum seeker. i believe as far as i know, there are differences and they are being used interchangeably by everybody across the board. i would like to see some more accuracy on that. as far as the emergency

situation, i don't see it as an emergency situation on the border but i do blame both sides for having ignored immigration policy. after world war ii -- i am an immigrant, i was barely seven when i came here. right after world war ii, america did not just take everybody in. they took so many people from they just whend you are going to argentina, you are going here or there. you could not come here without a sponsor in america who paid who paid for our lodging, food, medical, anything until my father got on his feet and he was able to support us.

i don't know when that changed. i think we need to hit a happy medium here. it is not a good situation. host: thank you, we will get a response. caller: to the -- guest: to the first point about the power of the state, the fear that a dictator will take over, i think that what we are seeing now is that previously the expectation among the public was that presidents would be restrained in when they declared emergencies. if it looks like a duck and walked like a duck, it was a duck and everyone will recognize an emergency and the powers that be would be deployed to deal with that emergency. under trump, there is a growing fear and there has always been this fear of authoritarian dictatorship, that someone take over, but those fears have really ratcheted up quite

drastically because trump has seemed to avoid or tear down so many of the guard rails. expressesn the caller is valid. in terms of the immigration system, partly what we are seeing now, if you put it into context, a deep sense of frustration across the board that immigration reform has not happened over decades. george w. bush came in and gave an address saying he was going to reform immigration. barack obama campaigned twice on widespread immigration reform. pretty nativist campaign said that he was going to build a wall and yet the last major immigration reform was in the mid-1980's. what we are seeing is a kind of

to gettingproblem comprehensive immigration reform done that would include border include whatalso to do about the millions of undocumented immigrants, the dreamers, the children who were brought here. this is part of a much longer debate and it goes back much ander into american history we are seeing a moment of restriction is him -- restrictionism. host: you can follow our guest on twitter. matthew dallek, a professor at george washington university. a couple tweets and then back to your phone calls. has decided the senate is just a branch of the white house instead of congress being a coequal branch.

congress can override president trump but open -- and open the government but mcconnell will not allow it. the parasites, the illegals, they are freeloading and the wall is what americans who did him in for. if donald can claim a national aergency about the wall, soon-to-be democratic president could declare a national emergency on health care. guest: one of the most interesting dynamics of the republicans in congress. there are a handful in the senate who are up for reelection in 2020 in places like colorado ,nd north carolina and maine and they are vulnerable. they have come out and said we don't think the government should be shut down, we think we should reopen and then debate about border security, but we don't think we should hold the government in a sense hostage to

whether or not we build a wall. so far it has only been a handful of republicans on that. we have seven -- we have seen seven to 10 republicans vote with democrats in the house to reopen the government. the question is whether or not at some point of that dam will break because republicans will realize trump is losing this fight. i am not of -- i am not optimistic because republicans see their own political prospects now but more importantly in 2020 as deeply entwined with trump. that is why we are seeing mitch mcconnell say essentially i'm going to do whatever trump wants to do on this. host: next call is duane, republican line. caller: good morning. problem with your guest. i am watching what he said and

he has not said the was were illegal immigrants. the politician in the news media like to focus on but they are illegal. what happens when you bring illegal people with no paperwork with them? they don't have the ability to speak the language. they put a tax on everybody else. host: we will get a response. guest: the way i would look at it is there is a humanitarian crisis. primarily from the reporting, you have families who are fleeing places like honduras where they fear for their lives and they are desperate, worried that a child is going to be killed.

they are trying to cross the toder, trying to seek asylum protect them because they are worried about their own safety. it is important to keep in mind studies,ost credible immigrants tend to be very productive for the economy. a number of immigrants are doing jobs that a lot of american citizens don't want to do. that is why a lot of businesses support immigration reform. for we are getting with the tweets in the calls is a sense of how complicated the immigration debate is and how divisive our feelings collectively are on this issue and why it is so hard to get comprehensive immigration reform passed. host: a bill signed in 1976 by gerald ford, passed by democrats and republicans in the house and senate. what is the national emergencies act?

the act authorizes the president to declare quote, a national emergency, a declaration under any triggers. passed the rations have addressed the imposition of export controls, limitations on transactions and property from specified nations. guest: it was an attempt after watergate to try to rein in the president and when the president can declare an emergency and also specify once an emergency is declared, what powers the president intends to use to deal with that emergency. it was also an effort for congress that the president has to renew every year and that congress can overturn the emergency. in practice, it has not worked in congress has not ever reviewed the emergency or overturned an emergency. there was one time since that

act was passed by congress really pushed back on a provision. george w. bush wanted to lift federal wage laws in rebuilding after hurricane katrina. there was a uproar in congress and bush rescinded that action. congress has never voted to overturn an emergency. atexample of good intentions reform that have not failed -- that have not worked in practice. host: we welcome our radio audience in the greater washington, d.c. area and on the free c-span radio app. our conversation with matthew dallek on the issue of what is a national emergency? bill in cleveland, on our democrat line. caller: good morning. when did that national emergency act -- what was it created for but i guess that was answered. does anybody know what the

national emergencies that are declared right now by trump? there are three of them. dothere any thing we can about the republican senate and the republican congress that will not censor anything that orange baby does. nothing. president trump, one of the things he has done is renewed some of the emergencies. there are more than 30 that have been in place since jimmy carter was president. one that he declared had to do russianctions against interference in the u.s.

election. host: that was september of last year. guest: and that was criticized by a number of democrats for not going far enough. to get a sense that these emergencies and how they are deployed, they are also filtered through a partisan lens. now, and this was not technically an emergency, but i think the most prominent, one of the most prominent executive orders that trump issued was the travel ban early on in his administration. he had to revive that and he essentially said we are under imminent threat of having terrorists come in from these particular countries and we've got to ban people from these countries from coming in. and was not declared so far as under the national emergencies act but it gives you a sense of the reach of presidential power he has deployed.

host: we should point out that the first one was back in 1979. , jimmy carter's using uranium property after the hostages were taken in that country. lewis joins us from colorado. caller: good morning. law on thisase emergency stuff and i wanted to give that gentleman this case number and that i will hang up and let him talk about it. i wanted to say i have heard a about it aersation manufactured or just like any other -- if you talk to the , their young kids are never going to get a paycheck, they are never coming back. even though it is unfortunate, some of these federal workers should remember that. patrolama's chief border

that runs the agency under him supports president trump with this. are asking for this, not only for our safety but for there's. this controlling case is versusown sheet and tube sawyer. u.s. 579. according to this person i am quoting here, this legal people, there are some $13.1 billion available -- it was supposed to be used for building housing in afghanistan and iraq. people think we can use that here to secure our country on the southern border, i think they would rather do that and help our border patrol

agents so they don't get harmed and we don't have all these kids getting sexually assaulted like they were talking about the other day. host: thank you for the call. guest: that case the caller was referring to was a famous case in which harry truman tried to seize the national steel industry during the korean war. he declared in a met -- he declared a national emergency and was concerned about a labor strike and said we have to have the industry up and running in order to prosecute the war in korea. the supreme court stepped in and stopped that order and overturned it. justice robert jackson in a famous concurrent laid out the powers of the president. it was one of the rare instances in which the supreme court very strenuously limited presidential

powers during an emergency. att case would still be issue if trump were to declare a national emergency. host: bottom line, based on your expertise, what is going to happen? guest: it is hard to see how trump gets out of this box, this political blocs. -- this political box. the national emergency does offer him a way out. it allows him to say i'm doing everything i can. i have shut the government down, look at my commitment to this issue. he might prevail in the courts and even if he doesn't, he can run for reelection blaming democrats and the courts and the media, three groups he has blamed repeatedly over the past two years, for blocking the border wall and he can go to the

country and say reelect me so i can get the wall done. reelect republicans to get that done. that ultimately seems like the most likely scenario. i don't think the democrats have any incentive to give him very much unless they move a little bit and there is some sort of face-saving way trump can claim he got a down payment on the border wall. host: even the president has said this is very much about 2020. guest: they started running for reelection a couple days after he took office and was very upfront about that. about talking about why he is doing certain things. he says this is for border security and that brings up what the last caller said which is part of the debate is whether a wall would be effective. board of -- there are

border patrol experts who said it would be ineffective, that most people coming in are coming in through ports of entry, not in this terrain where there should be a wall. but is all part of a debate you can't take the politics out of this debate because it is front and center and i think trump does need to find a way out, especially because as we are seeing the longest government shutdown in history, it has major consequences in the lives of millions of people and they are not all democratic federal employees. these are people all across the country and a lot of people are his supporters. and it hurts the economy eventually. host: matthew dallek, professor at george washington university. always great to have you. the stock market is up, it is down, what is going to happen next? its impact on your portfolio and the u.s. economy.

roben farzad is joining us at the table. later, brad meltzer joining us from florida. his latest book, "the first conspiracy: the secret plot to kill george washington." you are watching c-span's "washington journal." we are back in two moment. -- in a moment. ♪ >> monday night on the communicators. >> will we are talking about here is fiber-optic technology. it has been around for decades. a very thin strand allows unlimited amounts of information to be pumped through it by lasers. it is used around the world under sees. -- undersea.

more and more countries are ensuring their citizens have access to a fiber art -- a fiber-optic connection. >> susan crawford discusses her : the coming tech revolution and why america might miss it." no why arell be better than fiber that will emerge over the next few decades and we are leaving behind a lot of the country when it comes to great communications capacity and as a nation we are falling behind in the global race to be the place for new ideas come from. >> wants the communicators, monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span two. -- c-span2. , author andn q&a columnist james grant. >> i make my living writing about markets. -- much too expensive for some people out there.

wall street is what it is. , both --en a name mostly an infamous name. think what we ought of be more on our guard about his institutions in the federal government that are validly denied -- benign and their intentions. the federal reserve, the department of treasury, the security and exchanges commission. author and columnist james grant tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. " continues.journal host: we welcome back roben farzad. he can be heard on public radio,

the program folders closure. we are glad to have you on the next half-hour. what happened in december? guest: it was the december to remember. infinally had a correction something approaching a bear market which was something we have not seen since 2011. memories are very short-term. the 10 year anniversary in 2008, the debt ground zero and people forgot that things can and do fall apart in markets. -- as you have seen, things have recovered robustly. host: why so much volatility? points, down 300 points within a day or two. guest: we can always ponder meaning of life questions. a lot of things happen. the apple story fell apart in the autumn. the maker of the iphone, the

first to break the trillion dollar market capitalization threshold and then things broadly fell apart with a disastrous quarter. the china trade war news headlines annoying everybody. owlingderal reserve j back-and-forth with president trump who appointed fed chair jerome powell. i want to share with you jerome powell speaking in washington before the economic club. he was asked about the debt and market volatility and president trump and on the issue of what we have -- what we are seeing on wall street. [video clip] >> financial markets beginning in the fourth quarter got more volatile and seemed to be pricing in a more pessimistic outlook which seems to be rooted in concerns about concern -- concerns about slowing growth and the ongoing trade negotiations.

if you look at incoming data, you don't really see any evidence of a slowdown. we are in a situation where we have factors pointing in different directions. by the way, this is not uncommon. isn we have that, what we do we apply risk management principles. we are not just concerned about the baseline case. we're using our tools to address those risks. path. there is no preset as i mentioned, it gives us the opportunity to be patient and watch and see. chaircomments from fed jerome powell and roben farzad is here with us. how does what he says impact what are the fed raises or lowers rates -- if you look back to where

we were before the financial crisis, i don't think economists spend enough time working at the absolute level of rates. we are now at 2.5%. have an economy that the federal reserve and the bureau of labor statistics tells us is that full employment. you had up until recently a rip roaring stock market, all sorts of risk-taking. trillion dollar market capitalizations. amazon, apple, microsoft. the fed does have justification and if you look at the last jobs jobst, more than 300,000 in the most recent report. this is an economy at full employment and you have justification for taking back the rate cuts that took us from 5.25% to 0%. thes difficult to wrest bone back from the dog's mouth.

talk about the meaning of life, that is the greatest question from this recession, what is normal, what is a baseline level that is not a bubble or overly depressive. host: adding to all of that is the rising debt. federal spending is up 145%. nearlyt now approaching $22 trillion. how does that impact the economy and at what point should the alarm bells ring? guest: the impact is when the rate goes up on that debt. people want to come into u.s. treasuries when something goes wrong. if there is a global selloff, if there is tension or a war, people want to park their dollars and euros and yuan in u.s. treasuries. that 10 year is the ultimate benchmark.

unless you see the return of what they used to call bond vigilantes, you saw them in the late 70's and early 80's, who come in and punish the united states, you are not going to see capitol hill or wall street join in unison to take on the debt. is kind of a tertiary issue. host: we are dividing the phone lines a little differently. if you are an investor in the stock market, give us a call at (202)-748-8000. for all others, (202)-748-8001. there is this from mary. my parents love to scare me with stories of the 70's, mortgages at 17% and 2% does not seem so bad. guest: my dad used to take me to american savings and loan and not only with a have a penny arcade. interest rates went up to 15%. they would give you a toaster, a hamilton beach blender, all sorts of toys. they were begging you to pay you

50% on your money. fargo,wanted to wells they were pushing on a string, they don't need your excess cash. we have gotten used to a very long period of very low interest rates and memories are very short-term. andtalk to bond traders they have no institutional of bond investors being wiped out. these are in many ways dangerous times for complacency. host: i remember the blunders and toasters. -- blenders and toasters. guest: and they were good. we recently use one of the turkey carvers on thanksgiving. host: another tweet. once we get the factories going we can work on the debt. guest: the debt is manageable. if you look back at the school of alexander hamilton, he was

arguing for a world-class economy and having a debt and servicing that debt and getting more and more credit worthiness. we have pushed the envelope on what is acceptable in carrying capacity and the dream for the trickle-down school is that you can keep growing the economy and servicing the debt and the government collects more taxes and capital gains and it is sustainable but that is an open question. host: from pennsylvania, john, good morning. caller: good morning. i am moren is, concerned about europe right now. if there was any type of downfall with the economy in europe, how would that affect the united states and where do you see the future if that would happen? not saying it is going to. we are concerned about that as

well as what is going on here. host: thank you. guest: it is a good question. it was something that took our markets down enormously between 2011 and 2013 if you saw those corrections. greece crisishe was the aftermath after the subprime crisis in the u.s. -- we're not quite kind of lehman eventual hourly happen in europe -- we are not going to let this kind of lehman eventuality happen in europe like it did on wall street. thelong and short of it is alternative, letting these companies collapse is unthinkable. .hey neutralized their debt look at economy like italy. it is extremely indebted

relative to its gdp and employment rate. this is problematic. if they had to go out and reissue the lira, it could cheapen its exports and rerun the factories at a higher rate but the euro you out -- the euro zone has shown they are not going to do that. with the u.k. and brexit and the tory party not having an actionable plan to remove itself and extricate itself, that has added to headline risk but we have not seen the systemic volatility at. -- volatility yet. next week, maybe fran steps up. france is inextricably linked to banks in london. certainly the market has not been paying that much attention to it. host: our guest is roben farzad, a graduate of princeton and harvard business school. he has written for the new york

times, the boston globe, bloomberg businessweek. is also the author of this book, hotel scarface, where cocaine cowboys partied and plotted to control miami. in a sentence, it is about what? guest: it is about where the cocaine wars crashed into the sexual revolution all in the lobby of one miami hotel. host: back to your phone calls. don is in new mexico. caller: good morning. i would like to use as my reference the dow jones industrial average. when barack obama left office, the dow was at 19,700. trump wasst year that in office, the dow was at 24,700. there was the 5000 point gain. how do you explain a 5000 point in thatthat one year

act the end of the tax cut, there was a reversal but that regulation reversal takes a year and a half to function. it seems to me that what is was aing is that 2017 year in which there was a runoff in the stock market with any of -- without any legitimate reason for it. guest: the dow jones industrial average is not a perfect metric. is the most quoted market index. it is comprised of the likes of mcdonald's, apple, bank of america but it is a bizarre thing. companies like nike get -- azed by stock market company like amazon is not in it at all. even if you look at the s&p 500 which is a broader sample size and the numbers were great, i think 2017 reflects the fact

that investors got over this risk poppet -- possibility of trump being catastrophic, that he would do something and we would look -- and we would lose confidence in the world would not take us seriously. in fact, it was very normal and while he did not keep the former federal reserve chair, he did bring in jerome powell. i think what you are seeing in the fall was investors coming to terms with the possibility that this man also brought with him enormous headline risk. his willingness to duke it out with china, his own federal reserve chair, the vitriol you have seen shared with economies in the middle east and south america, with mexico. in the grand scheme of things, the president is not all that important as far as the market is concerned. it is overwhelmingly concerned

with employment, interest rate policy and there are many other things. it is impossible to attribute it to one or two things. host: have you been following the sears story? guest: very closely. host: will it survive? guest: this is the most drawn out and tortured liquidation i have seen. the hedge fund manager came in and bought the company with a andof glory in 2005 converted it into what many people thought would be the next warren buffett, operating like a -- and making various investments. in the end, he did not invest nearly enough in sears and kmart to compete with amazon and walmart and target. to a person, everybody knows this company is going to liquidate. the question is can he by himself enough time that it does not have to shut down all at once. tens of thousands of people

could lose their jobs overnight. host: next up is -- from new jersey. are you with us? caller: can you hear me? host: we can. all the money, fame or -- you worry about who has more than you. you have to defend it. what good is it beyond what you need to live sensibly and i want to make another point about how with the darklly -- with the dark economy, how may people really have money through illegal drugs, trade, selling drugs, and under the table jobs. how do we know anything about who really has money? corrupt.rations are so

aware that ifot we just had better relationships simplye, we could live instead of chasing the illusions of money, fame and power. respond? would you guest: it would be a lot easier a couple years ago to transact in cash and launder money and now you are seeing all of these articles about the disappearance of cash and how problematic that is for everyone from pickpockets to dime bag dealers in manhattan. you cannot exactly accept venmo or paypal. stories in china of beggars having qr codes.

there is a dark economy. it has always been there and has been a tiny fraction of gross domestic product in the united states. this in a cap -- this is an economy that is going away from cash and the dark arts and is being formalized. this is why block chain which had an atrocious year, huge crashes in 2018, that is why it is so appealing to many people amidst the death of cash as an alternative of connecting buyers and sellers without fiat currency or the federal reserve or the treasury looking over your shoulder. host: roben farzad on public radio, his program, full disclosure. we want to get back to jerome powell. the president has been very critical, going after the fed chair with the possibility of interest rate hikes.

past wednesday, questions on whether he would meet with president trump in the oval office and some of the pitfalls of that. [video clip] note >> invitation -- >> no invitation. that shares do meet with presidents. fed chairsare of any in my life that have not met with president. these meetings tend to be rare. there has only been one or two during my time here. i am not aware of any fed chair turning down an -- turning down an invitation from the white house. >> so if you got an invitation you would be happy to accept it. >> not aware of anyone refusing to accept it. james comey illustrated in his interviews in his book how when donald trump calls you to the white house, it is not like any other president. ,his is the art of the deal guy a guy who dispenses with convention. he met with kim in north korea.

he will take any meeting, he will say anything. he will ultimately say do i have your loyalty. the federal reserve does not have the president's back. it has a very set mandate. you want full employment and control in consumer prices. andourse that does happen he has -- this has been true of any president. no president likes high interest rates. it is something jimmy carter was saying, you are cost -- you were going to cost me the election. ronald reagan did not appreciate what was being done. it did not help bush in his second term when greenspan and bernanke had to break up rates. this has been an evergreen thing but you always resorted to -winking andd wink showing your displeasure through other more subtle channels and i

don't think president trump espouses subtlety. host: let's go to illinois. larry, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question on whether you agree with me or not. there was a theory that was imparted to me in the late 60's and early 70's, a finance professor i asked. he would never give advice in on this investing but side he kind of hinted that if you don't follow the market religiously, and you just want to invest here and there, over the years, he said it doesn't matter who is in the white house. what is more important is who is in charge of the legislature of congress and he basically said that and to a few others if you want to put some money in the market, you are better off doing it when the republicans and be veryongress

careful when democrats have controlled. i have kind of followed that because throughout the years i never made big money on a salary but it did me well. host: we will get a response. guest: over the long haul, if you take data from the investing shop. the market has returned something of 9.2% per year, compounded. money doubles every 10 years. we have seen incredible bull markets under bill clinton, theld reagan, obama had fortune or misfortune of assuming office right after the worst of the subprime crisis. the market hit a low of -- march -- hit a low in march of 2009. he started off at such a point

of panic. donald trump assumed the market at a point of euphoria. that does not have much to do the who exactly is in branches of government. the market is so globalized. if you look at the s&p 500 index, it derives something on the order of half of its revenue abroad. a great investor i had on my show turned me around when i said what is too much to first location. -- too much diversification. he said let me turn this around. his honda a u.s. company or a japanese company? honda is a japanese company but it derives so much of its sales from the u.s., we can call it what it is. looking to invest in the market as what jack bogle said, in the short term, a voting machine, in the long term, it is a weighing machine.

growth, the growth of population, demographics. it is ultimately going to derive value from economic activity. that has been a long game and the only free lunch in long -- and long-term truth you can glean from markets. host: december did not spook you? guest: i got excited. i am no warren buffett. i have nothing on the order of his net worth. says he is greedy when other people are fearful. host: let's go to herald in california. caller: since the taxpayers pay for the public sector, is there a negative on their taxes being paid in? i don't know how to put this. i lost my concentration. sector, if it

depletes, how will the public sector continue to succeed and move forward? i think i got that. thank you. guest: that is a great question. andneed a generous economy tax receipts coming in to sustain the public sector which has been in the headlines this week with the partial government shutdown. you see how many hundreds of thousands of people are dependent on governor -- on government revenue. collapses, you will see the bond markets signal we need more fiscal discipline. you have the house pressure to come in with spending cuts. we are not there yet and the economy is certainly doing so well that this president has not had to deal with that question. host: from illinois, tony. caller: good morning. let me say i have all of my money in berkshire.

hoping that warren buffett can see me through this bumpy ride. is, in our high-performing economy, it is coming along at a very good pace clip, but yet we are still increasing our debt. our debt increases when we are in a recession or the economy is not doing well. debt inre exploding the a good economy. what happens when gdp slows and interest rates increase? mighter question is, how the regulation which contributed to the last recession contribute to creating another bubble? those are my two questions. host: first on the debt. guest: those are very important questions.

if you read the wall street journal, this has been unprecedented, the extent of stimulus the trump white house and republican congress journale very important that were passed, for the economy, crushing it still with interest rates being low, that is an enormous amount of stimulus. you are supposed to save something like that, in theory, for a true great depression. as rahm emanuel says, you should never waste a good crisis. the question is -- when will we have our next big hard landing? there is not a lot of room on the physical front, especially with the national debt at levels that you are seeing right now, per capita levels that our children are going to have to inherit if you do not change. that is the concern, but i think this administration thought that it is something they will have to save for that rainy day, when

we have that next great recession. host: jill, good morning, from michigan. go ahead, please. i, i am calling -- i am were eight about the value of the u.s. dollar with all that we have had and compared to other currencies and how we can make sure that the u.s. corporate debt and the government debt do not decrease the value. host: thank you, joe. guest: you see a lot of lip service from the white house and certainly treasury secretaries, going back to every president. we want strong dollars, strong policy. the united states is the leader of the free world, the most market. economy on the in truth, a weak dollar is not all that bad for these players. makesike the fact that it our exports more attractive.

they like the fact that other central banks, china has a difficult time to contorting, manipulating the yuan so that its exports are valuable versus hours. after look at the economy the recession, i do not know how fleeting it was, but some resurgence of manufacturing in the united states. you saw all the headlines about on shoring and jobs coming back here. certainly that was a factor of the great recession, but certainly come our weak dollar helped our exports. host: when the economy is strong, the president gets the credit. when it is weak, the president gets criticized. realistically, how much does the president, whether it is barack power doesident trump, they have over it? guest: i have never given much stop to it. the federal reserve is truly micromanaging.

you talk about quantitative policy, conjuring trillions out of thin air, the institutions that decided to backstop, if you look at aig and everything happening on wall street, that really has nothing to do with the president. a point ofnt does the fed chair powell and the fed itself is not infallible. if you look at the minutes leading into the great recession about what the federal reserve was deserving with the economy in 2006 and 2000, this was going real a normal softening of estate, it barely nearly took our economy into a great recession. these are normal and fallible people, and there are things beyond that control the market --eet host: roben farzad control the markets. roben farzad, who is hurt on public radio, a program,

"full disclosure," friend of the program, thank you. guest: always glad to be here. author brad meltzer is here to talk about his book -- many books, there are many, is here to talk about his new book book "the first conspiracy." you are watching and listening to c-span's "washington journal ." it is the 13th day in january, and we are back in a moment. >> monday night on "the communicators" -- >> what we talking about here is turnedptics technology it is not new. it has been here for decades. tell, allowscan unlimited amount of information done by lasers to carry

communication, and more and more countries, i am sure, are ensuring that more and more citizens have access to a private connection. >> author and harvard law school professor susan crawford discusses her book. susan: there will be no wire better than fiber that is going to emerge during we are leaving behind a light of the country when it comes to great communications capacity and as a nation, we are falling behind in a global way to be the place that global ideas come from. "the communicators," monday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. ," author and "q&a columnist james grant. james: i make my living this, which is

much to the expense of some of the people out there. the trouble is not so much wall street journal wall street is what it is very it has been a an infamousy in infants name, wall street is an epithet mostly in american history. entities in the federal government that are avowedly benign and their intention. reserve, for example, the department of the treasury, these are institutions set up as benefactors for the public. increasingly, they are not so. jameshor and columnist grant tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a." >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from fort lauderdale, florida is author

brad meltzer. he has written a number of fiction books. "the firstfiction, guest 1 conspiracy: the secret plot to kill george washington." we will get to the book in just a moment, but first, from your observation, the shutdown in washing and is now entering week 4. what is your observation? guest: i am on a book tour now, which means i see people on airports and a daily basis, and all you seeou that people doing is saying thank you to the tsa people. what is going on, and we all want to turn it into something political. us,our government is always and it is made up of us, and what you see israel people going through rome problems right now. we had an event at the national archives that was canceled,

because of course the national archives is closed. about the only good thing i can is there is thing no traffic in downtown washington, d.c. other than that, you have got people -- listen, i come from a working-class family. i was the first member of my family to go to college. i remember when my dad got paid, i do it because he brought home the dry cleaning. he could not afford to bring home the dry cleaning until the brought home his check. this is not a time that i wish the president knew, but this is not the time that we can ask for money. there are real people with real problems, and i hope that people can figure it out, because throwing tantrums and holding your breath over the wall you want is not going to help these amazing people. just remember that there are real people out there on both sides who are really going to be going through some real hard times right now. host: do you see an endgame to this? guest: um, an in game is

different than the ending. an and the game is basically embarrassed the other side. they want president trump to look bad, because that he does not look like a good deal maker. lips" done the "read my of 2019. on the other hand, they want to show the democrats, you cannot embarrass me, i am the greatest negotiator of all time. that is the endgame. it is just a question of who is going first. host: let's talk about your book and our first president. the book is titled "the first conspiracy." let's talk first about george washington, and then we will talk about the plot against him. you write the following -- "honor, al honor, honor. so much about george has beenn's life i

centered around the pursuit of this ideal. it is perhaps the greatest lesson from his youth. " guest: always vital to myself and josh mensch, who i wrote -- worked onh, this book with, is seeing where he comes from. he is not someone who grew up with a lot of money. what we did in america is we build great statues, and they notme dead, and they are human anymore, and we do know service to our heroes. hero, whether dr. king, rosa parks, had a moment when they were scared and terrified, where they did not think they could go on, and they did. for george washington, it was always about honor. one of my favorite parts of the we see at a battle, and george washington, the greatest leader of all time, the best

general, join hands and let beats the british, the world has ever known, but in reality, in the battle, we got our veterans kicked. george washington did not have the experience that the british generals had. in what he did have -- and that moment, let's be clear, he pinned down, he has the british in front of him, this is the endgame, right, this is the moment where it is all done, and he could've beaten his chest and showed what a big man he is, let's take out as many as we can, and we will go out in a blaze of glory. george washington is not macho like that. there is nothing macho about that. there is nothing manly about that. instead, he does the best thing he always does, he basically plans a daring escape. he makes a new plan and adapts. in the middle of the night, they, the are every vote along the east river, and what they

do, and this is the key moment, george washington put his troops on board, but he will not put any of his troops on board -- he will not get on board himself until all of the troops are aboard and away safely, so his troops see that he is risking his own life to make sure that they are safe, and that is honor. that is taking care of other people before yourself. that is the depth of the character. host: another person featured in your book, another figure from american history, john jay. you write the following -- "throughout the entire revolutionary era, few men can claim as many titles and will play as many different critical roles as john jay. staying mostly above the fray and commanding almost universal respect." guest: yet, you know, listen, this is the plot that killed george washington heard i found the story about a decade ago when i was looking through the footnotes. is this the true story, the plot

to kill washington? in 1776, there was a plot to kill george washington, and when george washington found out about it, together those responsible, took one of the co-conspirators in the field, hung them in front of 20,000 people, the largest public execution in north america in history at the to know who wanted caught them, how can they figure it out, and that is what john jay was four. what they did was they formed a secret committee. they picked the committee on conspiracy, as john jay was put in front o charge of it. governor morris, john jay, and philip living center and these were the three that george washington trusted the most. in this moment, what john jay does is they are going in the

middle of the night, they are kicking dow doors, pulling people, and interrogating them. in the process, they are trying to figure out this plot. what they are really doing is building america's first counterintelligence agency. ton jay of course goes on become the first supreme court justice of the united states, jobthe reason he gets the is what he does helping george washington uncover this plot, and many after it. agency, rightthis now, if you ask historians with the precursor is for the cia, they will tell you owe, it is the oss. that is not true. right now, in langley, virginia at cia headquarters, there is a room dedicated to john jay, who they call the founding father of counterintelligence. and i love that you get to see it, because he is one of the true underdog hidden heroes. we all know him for the intellectual side, but at this

moment, at the heart of the war, great unsungthe heroes to figure of the plot to go against washington. host: brad meltzer, let's get to the heart of the book and the plot to kill george washington. you write the following, "there is a plan against him. he has no idea it is coming. had a nearlyngton impossible task, to organize that word militias and untrained on tears into a functioning national army to stand up to the biggest and most powerful ,"litary force in the world that of course great britain. ?o what happened what happened, it is the first conspiracy, that of course is the title of the book, but what is amazing to me is what happens is george washington has his own personal bodyguard, and

he asks all of the top regiments, give me your for best men. and he wants what they call drill men, he wants the best of the best. he personally, george washington himself, narrows all of those men down to about 50 of them, and those 50 become what they call the general's guard, the commanders guard, but the name that sticks are the lifeguards, because one of their guards is to guard, truly, george washington's life. these are the men who turn on george washington. these are the ones who are involved with the plot to kill him. clear thatt you become a first general, that you become the first president, i do not care how strong you are , that is the moment that is devastating to george washington. and we start with that. when that happens, as you said, we think, again, when we tell the story of the american revolution, we love to tell the story that, you know, the

british were here, we banded together, we took them down, it was the declaration of independence, george washington, we win, the president, he is president, the end, we live happily ever after. it is never that simple. in1776, i can tell you that new york city were the first great battle took place when the british were invading, there were nearly as many loyalists on the british side as there were patriots on the american site, and it was no different in our own military. when you can see is that the regiments from massachusetts fog with the regiments from connecticut. one of my favorite scenes in "the first conspiracy" is you will see an harvard yard, george washington arrives in harvard yard, and all of the different regiments that are coming together, and you can see the regiments from massachusetts meet the regiments from west virginia. the virginians wore the sterling things on their uniforms. and of course, they have to live there myself, and of course they are fighting like.

crazy george washington. horse, grabs two of the biggest guys by the neck, and is basically shaking them, stop fighting with each other. we are on the same team. if ever there is a metaphor for today, that is it. whatever your politics are, who love to drink themselves in the flag and tell you how patriotic they are, there was no american flag back then. there was not even a u.s.-backed then. to grabashington had everyone and bring them together, taking this under chaos and try to turn it into these united states. easy for him,eans because what he is dealing with our 10,000 men defending on new york city. guess what 10,000 men want to do what they are not with their wives -- the same thing 10,000

men want to do today when they are not with their wives. they want to gamble, they want to drink, back then they are going to prostitutes. and george washington is a proper virginia gentleman. he is horrified by this. he sees what is happening. you can see his general orders for the day, the rule would come down every day. there are no rules in the military, he is building the military bit by bit, and his first ones are coming down. the among them are no gambling, he hates gambling, no drinking, no prostitutes -- the same rules my parents had for me growing up. what all of us had. i make a joke, but this is what george washington's handling. he is trying to build all of this together. he is the one who builds this. when leaders bring us together, they are the best of us. when a full us apart, they are the worst of us. host: brad meltzer is joining us from fort lauderdale. his book, "the first conspiracy:

the secret plot to kill george washington." write the following "although many new york city residents cheer on washington army,e new continental there are many who do not support them. new york is a major power center for the loyalists," you go on to much has been built on this." good morning. caller: good morning. a couple of comments you make, you make some wonderful, wonderful points, and then you say some things, i just go "what?" they did not have a flag at the very, very beginning, but they did have a flag. as far as the first comment in the beginning about trump trying ran ond his chest, he

the wall, he made it an issue, and the democrats, if anyone, what are we talking about that, $5.7 billion divided by a $4 trillion budget is 250th of a percent? let's do the math. it is kind of silly to make the first point at the beginning, but what you are seeing is very true as far as nothing has changed, really, except the wardrobes, as far as history goes. said, "they truman only thing new is the history you have not learned," and unfortunately in this country, for so many illiterate people, as far as history goes, they do not think history is worth learning. washington, our greatest president, we would not have our presidents. everybody always talks about lincoln, but it was washington.

thank you very much, and i will forward to reading your book. guest: thank you, john, and to be clea, i did not say that about trump, when i talk about beating his chest, i did not mention anyone. you saw trump in that one. "you don't have to be your chest," and we project to we see. like any historical figures, would any historical hero is to us, would any historical villain is to us, they are mirrors, and we hold them up, and you see what you want to see. i actually said nothing about trump. this trump once his wall and the democrats on the other side want border security, maybe without a wall, and they if anyonea fight, but mentions the word trump or democrats, the opposite side immediately thinks "oh, my god, brad is saying a horrible thing about mine." i made no comments about who is

right and who is wrong, and we need to take that lesson from george washington. what i think we have lost him and i think you're so right about, you got into this, is yes, and i mention of course the flag as we know it today, but what we have lost is the word "united" in "these united states." we have lost that. that is a disaster. i can tell you, i have been on a book tour since "the first conspiracy" came out this week, i started out on cbs news and i went to my friends at fox i went to my friends at cnn, that i went to my friends who are on npr, i was on all these different things all week long, and everything i talked about here, i can tell you that in all those newsrooms, they are all going yes, that is right, we have lost these united states. there are things we all agree on, no matter what your policies are. and the only reason, the only way that ever changes is leadership. you need the right leadership.

we need leadership like george washington, people who bring us together. my friends at fox, my friends on cnn, we all wish things were different right now. taking the lessons, like you said so well, of the george washingtons, of those who bring us together, we will be far better off as a country. host: a nonfiction book by ou guest, brad meltzer. he kicked off our series, booktv, our "in depth." if you missed it, it is on c-span.org, or check it out on booktv.org. jay in denver, thank you so much for waiting period caller. caller: hi. how are you doing, brad? i love to be on c-span. i can get the news very unbiased. i am happy to be here. i am moderate, which is kind of a juxtaposition.

guest: i like the radically moderate. host: do you have a question, jay? weler: essentially, how do 60 billion cia documents get dropped in a year? how do we see that to kind of change the truth that we knew before as a historian. > ? let's talk about that. i met with the archivist of the united states named david ferio , who is a wonderful man who runs the national archives. one thing he gave me when i was there in honor of "the first the oldcy," one of documents, as you said, we have once that get released all the time, all of our government employees are constantly making sure that every piece of paper,

every mill, everything is saved and catalogued so we can search it a and as the story of skin search it -- search it, and as historians, we can research it decades later. the beginning of the revolutionary war, we have what are called these special loyalty posts. thewhat they did was at start of the war, they won it of the members of the military to swear an oath of allegiance. it looked like a little index card. and the oath of allegiance said "i slalom lease where," and you put your name in there, "that i will be loyal to this country." me wasthe things he gave a beautiful copy -- they were all number, number one, number two, number three, and they all lined up, the same thing you do today, with our military, you

lineup, raise your right hand, that younly swear will be loyal to the united states, and the very first one was signed by george washington. and i love that. i love that is started there. the interesting thing is number five, which i have been to the national archives to see, number five is signed by a man named benedict arnold. i tell you the story because they are the book ends. george washington on one, an addict arnold on the other. arnold on the other. what you have is, centuries later, 50,000 pages or the jfk files released last year, and the way we go through them is bit by bit. the same way we built this country, the same way we run this country, the same way it will work as human beings taking the time to do what they do.

and it is hard, but i highly recommend those who are looking for the history, go to the national archives, but for those arguments. request them. so many are open to the public. know person can read 50,000 documents. you have to do it one by one. so a topic that you are interested in, i highly recommend, when the government opens, get there and check them out. they are incredible. lettersad meltzer, the between martha washington and george washington -- i know many of them were burned after she died that he did that purposely -- are there letters that really gave some insight into who george washington was in their relationship? guest: was interesting is george washington, the most famous american, the most recognized american i think whoever lived. you see him every day. he is on the dollar bill. but oddly, we know the leas amount him as a person. and the reason is because washington is not like jefferson or adam hsu's writing these .lowing, open, lovely letters

hisington always played cards very close to his vest. on the day during the first embarrassing, when they hanged for theresponsible plot, george washington barely merits a mention in his diary. if i murdered someone in front of 20,000 people, i would write "dear diary, i had a rough day," but again, george washington barely mentions it. in again, martha washington burned so many of the papers. figuret time trying to out who george washington is, and the one thing i can tell you is the letters that you see are spectacular, especially the ones you see firsthand. washington's first chosen as our commander in chief, one of the first things he does, he actually leaves the room. he does not want to be there for it.

they find him, and when they finally find him, he stresses very clearly that he just does not know if he is up to the task. it is not a moment, again, of is saying "yes, i can think all," it is a moment where he says "you know what, this is hard work." and you see immediately, from the moment he interest the public eye, you see humility and uc modesty. remember when humility and modesty were great american values? we have lost sight of that. now today, we the attention to those who are the loudest. and whether it is on facebook or twitter, we pay attention to those who beats their chest and say "look at me, look at me," and george washington, one thing you take away from him is that modesty, that feeling. one of the first things he does when he takes control of the military is he does not say he is best at it, he immediately goes and orders books on how to be a better general. and admitting that you need to learn, admitting that you need

to read -- lincoln actually does the same thing when he takes office. and i think that is a sign of great sense. to me, that shows you the depth of the character and who he is and how he approaches this new job that he is taking. host: from flatiron books, "the first conspiracy: the secret plot to kill george washington." michigan.ng us from good morning. caller: good morning. i really love it. morning.or this my family belonged to the son and daughters of the american revolution. we actually had a town in southern pennsylvania named after us. my grandfather, who is one of the people you suggest going to the library and look up, he did that several years ago, and he found our family history that way. according to what you said earlier about lining up all the boats and stuff, exactly, they had a barge at the inn in pennsylvania. but on this national emergency do you agree or would you

agree that the first national went up ino lanterns a church steeple, signifying that the british had landed? if you ask me today, i think three lanterns up there, because we are being invaded by land, by air, and by sea. you are absolutely right, we need to unite. guest: listen, we have to get back. we have to stop identifying ourselves by a party. person's piece, you will see two blurbs, one from president bill clinton, and one from president george bush. both great men. people will say oh, i only like 1 -- you know what, they were great men, they were american presidents.

every person listening right now, we are way more than that. stop identifying yourself as one party. if someone disagrees with your social media, you on follow, you unfriend, and then all you are doing is surrounded by people who agree with you. no great leader ever comes from surrounding yourself by telling you are the best and you are great. bush, ier george h.w. was at his funeral in houston, and i remember james baker telling the story, president bush will always say to him, tell me whether you agree or disagree, and james baker would tell him passionately why he thought he was wrong, and then president bush, he said, always had a great way of telling him that he was done hearing the advice, and he would go make the decision, and he would always say "baker, if you are so smart, why am i the president of the united states?"

the key part of the story is listening to the other side. you have to do that. to me, that is how we come together. right, stoppercent identifying yourself as a political party, identify yourself as american. and don't just follow your side of the news. today on social media, on television, go look. if you watch fox, go watch msnbc. if you watch msnbc, the watch fox. theh something with opposite of viewers. it will make you crazy, it will make your blood boil, you will be so angry, but somewhere in there, you will see that they are just like you. every person you hate and disagree with and don't like, is someone who has hopes and dreams, just like you. we are human beings, we are americans, we need to remember what we have in common rather than what pulls us apart. host: to that point, and your book, you write "washington forged more than a new brotherhood, he forged a new nation, and proved the one true that the core of the revolution

and america itself that in our lowest moments, we can find our greatest strength." back to your phone calls, kathleen is joining us from dayton, ohio. good morning. caller: i could not agree with your guests more, talking to people who have different views than you.i went to a trump rally outside of dayton, ohio in 2016, and i had a sign that said "i am my sanders supporter, and i want to talk to trumps of orders." -- sanders supporter, and i want to talk to trump supporters." i had a blast. and banging on the doors this fall, which i have done almost every election, i have fabulous conversations. you can learn so much about one another. however, i want to ask your guest, i believe that you said washington's bodyguards were referred to as lifeguards, and

that they ended up, if i heard you correctly, that they ended up being part of the conspirator to take his lifes. i am wondering what they were so angry about. i also want to ask c-span to do a show on those who have been hiring illegal immigrants for decades and why they are not fined and jailed. do it state-by-state, show us some state-by-state graphs of who hires and if they are thrown in jail. i love you guys. you guys do not focus on the israel-palestinian conflict anymore. please focus on that. host: thank you, kathleen. let's get a response. guest: let's go back to life guards, the bodyguards, george washington's righ private bodyguards. to be clear, the paperwork of george washington, they guard the cash and the money, and they

guard his life. that is kind of the original secret service. we are we always think of the secret service at the paper pinkerton's in the civil war, but they actually date back to this moment. a grievance that they had. you will see what they really want is money. we are a country founded on legends and myths, and the legends and myths that we love most are our own. the story we tell us we can thether, we believe in british, which is a great story, but not a true story. in reality, we were deeply divided, as i mentioned. a man named william trial, the mayor of new york at the time was a man named david matthews. both of them were under british wilrule. when they basically lost their

job, when we said you know what, we do not need british rule anymore, guess what? they want their jobs back. they are tired. they are the ones who go out and say let's see who we can bring back and get rid of this guy george washington, so we can get our power back. so they basically start finding people who want to switch sides, and they find people in the military, they find people who are ordinary citizens, they find people who are patriots and on the american side, and they offer the money. listen, if you come to our site, we will pay you money. the plot to kill george washington was not just a plot to kill washington, it was when the british invaded, what they would happen if they would blow up bridges and go after washington. it was absolutely an assassination attempt. others say they were just going to kidnap him. either way, at george washington's level, at that level of the military, one of the things they do is they hang him. if you are a lower level, they

will trade you, but i george washington's level, they will hang you. so either way, george washington's life is in danger. at that point, the lifeguards, you will see there are four different lifeguards that switch. some are for money, but some are just because they thought they were going to lose. we do not see, of course, the american revolution as we know the ending, but they do not know the ending. they were deeply divided. there were moments where it looks like the british were going to win. at the moment, they were paying people -- it is not that they. signed up because they love the democracy. markers he took a long time to -- it is not that they signed up because they loved democracy. democracy took a long time to take hold. they needed money. and yes, there were some a signed up for democracy, but when you sign up to be p

aid, and it looks like your site is about to lose, guess what? and it is still true today. nobody wants to be the loser. you know what, it looks at the british are doing better. i will go work for them. that is what happened with the lifeguards. you see people who want money, who have a chance for power, and they switch sides. that is what i lov about "the first conspiracy" as a book, as my first nonfiction book, is you do not see just the plot, what you get to see is how conflicted the revolutionary war really was. i think for me personally, i do not tell the story is being complex because it takes down history, i do not think that is it at all. if it were easy, why would we study it at all? but it did not. happened hard. for me, it is more important when it is hard. that is when the battle is

amazing. when you see the real complexity stake. thaat i love all of the people who bought the book, not just for themselves or for their father-in-laws, but for the people who said this is the one book that my son and daughter want to read, because they really want to know how it was back then. the more you tell the true story rather than that whitewashed version, the more you will see how america really is. host: brad meltzer, a quick follow-up, david mccullough in a c-span interview said generally speaking, during the revolutionary war period, about one third of this country wanted to stay with great britain, 1/3 one of the fight, and 1/3 were in different. would you agree with that assessment? guest: 100%. it is no different than we are today. that is exactly what david mccullough, obviously a source in the book, we look at very

carefully, and i 100% agree. we are completely divided. we tell the story, we paint a picture like "schoolhouse rock," where there is a great american dream, but if you look at the beginning of the war, 1/3 of the people of democracy. 1/3 were basically like you know what, it is just a trait difference. they did not want to get rid of the king, they just wanted to pay less taxes. /3 were apathetic. and we all want to say how great it was, with the fight and the drummer and you are holding the flag, as if we were all behind him, it was just as frustrating 1/3 of theing country being apathetic and the other 2/3 fighting, pointing the finger, and wishing the other would listen to them. the more we study history, that which we realize over and over,

it is attributed to mark twain, although he never said it, "history does not repeat, but it sure does rhyme." host: let's go to our next caller for brad meltzer, joining us from fort lauderdale, florida . [no audio] good morning. am calling from alberta, and fort lauderdale sure looks beautiful today. guest: [laughs] c-span totally cursed me by giving me this beautiful background. caller: you mentioned on there was aon, county, and because of the war, they renamed it. montgomery county now. occur events in your book

before arnold's betrayal at west point or after? was he one of the conspirators? benedict arnold came later in the war. the secret plot to kill george washington really replaced itself, obviously before 1776, but it comes in later. wrote another book, and i will give you a quick favorite story about. been at it which praised george washington, it is one of the times they said george washington was ever seen crying, and i cannot shake that image. the note come up with hand-delivered by alexander, hamilton, not in song or rap, but the letter says "one, don't kill my wife. she did not know. staff.they kill my

did not know what i was up to ." and three, and one of the craziest things i have seen, he wants his belongings back. amazingly, he actually gives it back to him. he sends back his belongings, and to this day, nobody knows what is in those belongings that george washington sends back. it is a mystery of history. but i love the fact that in "the first conspiracy," you get to see that benedict arnold was not the first one. it actually started way before. host: let's go to owen, joining us from new york city. good morning. caller: hi, brad, it is great twong you and roben farzad,

columbia alumni. guest: go chargers! caller: i was wondering if if you talk about the research. guest: yes, let's talk about that. prize-winningtzer author joseph ellis, and i said to him, do you know about the story of a secret plot to kill george washington? and he knew the story. every good biography has a sentence or two, maybe a page and a half, or a footnote, and one of the things he said to me is this is a story of george washington's size. can find the number of mount vernon, you can find the number of slaves that george washington owned, but you will never find his size. you have to give it a shot, and it will work, you will get an amazing book out of it. if it does not, you will have an amazing adventure.

a tv show called "decoded," and we went looking for the 9/11 flag that many firefighters raised at ground zero. many people do not know that that flag went missing. on the tv show, we went looking for it, we put up the word, offered a reward, and for days after we put that out, a man walked into a fire station in washington state and said "i saw the show "lost history," and i wanted to return the fla. this is the flag that was raised at ground zero." we found the fly, brought it on theuthenticated it, 50th anniversary of 9/11, we were able to raise it at the 9/11 museum. it is inspiring to see. everybody says oh, brad, thank you for doing that. it was not just me, it was me and the staff at "lost history" that made that happened.

the executive producer of of our show at "lost history," a man named josh mensch. i knew when i was going to go down this rabbit hole of the secret plot to kill george washington, i knew i wanted to work with josh mensch, who helped find the 9/11 flag with me. i said look, we have to do this research. are you up for it? i tackled it with a great friend and washington expert. i pinch myself, as indiana jones, i crawled through the cobwebs, i think the theme song, but it is not like indiana jones at all. the reality is that most of the stuff is online. we used a lot from the national archives, especially the new york archives and the new york historical society, especially files of the new york provincial congress. we took the time to read them, and what really cracked it open in terms of sources is we were able to find the actual

transcripts from the secret tribunal where they tried the man who was hung for the plot to kill george washington. host: and again, that man was -- tost: that man was, you want reveal him in the book, but they call him the hickey plot, and hickey was one of the lifeguards. when they hung him, one of the things you see is it was not in the public trial, it was in a , and when they hung thomas hickey at the time, , when we finally see found the transcripts of the hickey trial, that is where all cracked open for us, because that moment, there is the transcript. you can see what they accused him of, who the witness was, and now it is on record. once you get that, the whole book cap is. host: nancy joining us from

springfield, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i really enjoy all of this. not far from all of this, i am a jeffersonian. washington and jefferson, they were two of about 250 people who owned the entire states of virginia and west virginia, a territory at the time. but i am calling because of what you said about immigration and the wall. i would like to propose a hamiltonian solution. i think we need the united states of central america with mexico and those seven smaller countries going together. history is learning twice, and if we teach them how to have a federal business, then we will

benefit. host: nancy, thank you for the call. guest: what i love about c-span if you can have a caller who considers herself a washingtonian, i have sorry, a jeffersonian, but she has a hamiltonian solution. god bless america that there are still people who believe in those people. when i will say, because it was hard to say, you were breaking up, but i will tell you my favorite jeffersonian story that has to do with this one, because the declaration of independence, we alle of months ago -- know, a couple of weeks ago, former president george h.w. bush passed away. he was a dear friend of mine. barbara bush, president bush and barbara bush used to read my very, and i love mrs. bush much for what she did for literacy around the country. one of the big things she did when she fought for literacy issues help the american dream was achieved when we talk americans how to read, and not just the kids but the parents.

she dedicated her life to teaching people to read, especially foreign speakers who were immigrants she said that is how we help immigrants, not by attacking them but by arming them with reading. it is one of the great things that america has to offer, she said. before president bush died, we .ere honoring her at this point, we know how sick he was, and i did not want to tell the story when he passed away, but i can tell it now, and you will see why. i found out they were bringing in some of president bush's, some of his favorite writers to read to him. and they said to me brad, would you like to read president bush? and i said i would be honored to do that. my wife and i were in kennebunkport, maine, and they warned me, he will only be awake for about 10 minutes. he is sleeping a lot these days, so he is going to fall asleep on you. course, "don'tf

worry, brad is used to putting people to sleep with his books. he does it all the time." the secret service leave, it is just president bush, my wife, myself, and his service dog, sully, and we know this is the end. we can see the ocean right outside the window. i can see on his desk a stack of about five books. i sent him a copy of "the first conspiracy" nearly a year ago, about eight months ago, which he read, but i can see there is a copy of "the first conspiracy" on his desk, and it is dogeared. it looks like it has been read a thousand times, with post-it notes, as if he read it over and over again. i pick up the book, and i actually brought my own copy, and i said "do you want to read this, sir?" and at this point, he is really nodding. i picked my first passage from

" toe first conspiracy read to him, and the passages where the declaration of independence is read to the troops for the first time with george washington. i said that is the passage i want to read. and i am reading along the chapter, and sure enough, president bush falls asleep, but i want to finish the chapter, and i get to the end, and i get to the words where the declaration of independence is red, and washington is there, and it is being presented to the the time, and at i can to those words "we hold those truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal," and as i say the words, president bush's eyes open up, and they are locked on me. if anybody has been in a hospital with a secon loved one, the locked on me, as if

words of the declaration of independence are in his lifeblood. the words of the declaration of independence are in his lifeblood. i get to the end of the chapter, and he is still locked on me. i ask, do you want another chapter? another? another? and an hour goes by. an hour, where he is locked on it. and i think, for me, it was so humbling, so humbling to be able about america's first president, who at that moment in time, our oldest living president, it is one of the most humbling moments i will ever have in my life, but when my friend president bush passed away, one of the things i will notice over and over again that were on all the tributes to him, it was this word "decency." decency! and it is not because he was such a decent man -- he was -- but it is because america is starving for that. no matter what side you are on, we have lost decency. decency always starts with leadership. if we want it back, we have got

to find leadership that brings it back. i love that i got to have that final moment with president bush, that i got to shake his hand, that i got to say goodbye, and he gave me that gets and so many guess i will carry with me forever. there are many things i love about "the first conspiracy," but having that moment with president bush was absolutely first-class and top of the list. host: we have about a minute left, time for one more call. john gets the last word, if you can be brief, from mobile, alabama. caller: ok. i am fortunate i am the last call. as a black man, i find it disheartening, disingenuous, speaking the whole thing about george washington, james madison, thomas jefferson, andrew jackson, how they integrate in wrist lives off the backs of blac men, women, and children. tell the truth about george washington he is not heroic in the eyes of every black person in every native american in the country today. host: thank you, john.

guest: let's talk about that. i am glad you brought that up. that is one of the things that is very vital to us. one of the chapters in this book is dealing with george washington's slavery and how he owned slaves. what they had you want to say to you is i appreciate you saying back, because you are right. you should never judge any of us, whether george washington, or myself, none of us are who we are on our worst day. there is a wonderful book out there right now about how george washington went after a runaway slave. . none of us are perfect if you are looking for someone perfect, only god is. flawed. else is do not judge us by our worst moments. worst moments and our best moments, we are all amazing and terrifying, we are wonderful and we are scared, sometimes in the same day, sometimes in the same hour. i appreciate your call, and i appreciate every single person,

as i go on the book tour for the supportingwho is "the first conspiracy: the secret plot to kill george washington," i appreciate all of the love for the book. host: we are glad for your time. very quickly, this is book number one for you? guest: this is actually the first book that is nonfiction. i have written 12 thrillers, 16 kids books, but i have never done nonfiction before. i never had a book that i really want to dedicate the entire subject to until i found this one about our first president. host: it is called "the first conspiracy: the secret plot to kill george washington." ride melts or always, thank you for being with us. please come back again. guest: thank you. host: a reminder, we are back tomorrow morning with "washington journal." we will focus much more on the our,down, now in week f the longest shutdown in history. we will take a look at education

and workforce development, what that means for the workforce. we will talk with the director american federation of government employees, jacque simon. american history tv is on c-span3. we appreciate you joining us on a very snowy sunday morning here in the nation's capital. enjoy the rest of your weekend, and have a great week ahead. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] here is a look at some of our programming today on c-span, the 23rd day of the government shutdown. next is "newsmakers," with the new chair of the homeland security commission, congressman ennie thompson of mississippi. then at 10:35 a.m., president trump and democrats talk about border security in a series of events, including the president's addressed to the

nation. after that, secretary of state mike pompeo's briefings from his meetings in the middle east in cairo, egypt and his policies on the middle east and the region. >> the combft shut double play is in the 23rd day longest than any other. we'll follow the stories in the house and senate along with briefings all on the c-span networks. >> the senate confirmation hearings for william barr to be the next attorney general of the united states begin on tuesday at 9:30 a.m. eastern. in december president trump nominated mr. barr to replace jeff session who is held the position for over a year and a half since the beginning of the trump administration. william barr is now of counsel at the law firm of kirkland and ellis and served as the u.s. toge for president george h.w. bush. watch the confirmation process for attorney general nominee william barr, live tuesday at :30 a.m. eastern on c-span3.

>> congressman bennie thompson of mississippi has regained the gaft in the homeland security committee in the house of representatives. he's our guest on c-span's "newsmakers" this week. thank you very much for being with us. we have two reporters with us this week. we have two reporters in the studio to ask questions. nick sanders and stephen diamond. thank you for returning to our program this week. mr. thompson, we are taping on friday morning and a run 21 of the government shutdown. how do you see the sending? >> there's no end in sight at this point. as you know, we have some 800,000 federal employees who won't get a paycheck today, but nonetheless, they are working. many of them, keeping america safe, but it is just not right to have people working and not eing paid. >> mr. chairman, i want to ask you, in the absence of any