chicano literature at community college. she's one of the first to let by congresswoman elected texas voters. the other is representative sylvia garcia, who represents the 29th district. she previously served in the state senate, before that, she had a number of elected and appointed positions, including terms on the harris county commission and is houston's cop killer. orders from the seventh district cents -- said lucy fletcher to the house. it was the second time they have elected a democrat since it was constituted in 1957 on the west side of houston. the first member to hold the seat was future president george h w bush. , new leaders, watch it all on c-span. nowgovernment shutdown is in its 23rd day, making it the longest in u.s. history. watch the house monday at noon eastern on c-span, the senate

live at 3 p.m. eastern on c-span two. >> we welcome back matthew dalek, a professor at george washington university. banks for being with us. with this idea of a national emergency. what qualifies for that? matthew: it is basically what the president says it is. under the 1976 national emergencies act, there is no single definition. there is no definition. historically, it is was -- has resolved around applying economic sanctions to foreign actors, terrorist attacks, wartime of course, barack obama declared a national emergency during the swine flu. i don't think there has ever been one related to immigration, as far as i can tell. it really is up to the president. that is why somebody people are unlimitedabout this

authority to president seems to have when it comes to declaring a national emergency. steve: one of the arguments we have been hearing, and it is the background, the change of the filibuster rule by democrats, basically turning the senate into the house of representatives. declaredent trump does a national emergency, what would prevent a democratic president in the future from declaring a national emergency for health care or gun violence or other issues? matthew: the courts. congress does have a path where they can overturn the emergency. the problem is they would have to have both of the houses to pass the resolution. the president would veto it and that they would have to override the veto. given the recent polarization, that is unlikely to happen. ,aving said that, the politics public opinion, the courts, they could all conceivably step in. not necessarily on the ground of what constitutes a national

emergency. they could step in and say that the provision, the remedies that the president has proposed, in this case, appropriating funds from say, the department of defense, unallocated funds that he is not allowed to do that. this is unconstitutional. he is doing a run around congress. they have the power of the purse. that is yet to be determined. no one knows what he did -- supreme court would do. steve: this is a chart from cnn, available at cnn.com. this would be the 30 second 31 remainmergency, active in the u.s. dating back to jimmy carter. what happens is, under the 76 act, president have to renew the emergency every year. in a sense, when for instance, george w. bush declared a national emergency after 9/11, it can to nude to them --

continued to a new it -- renew it. obama renewed it. trump renewed it. year after year, it gets renewed. congress could step and theoretically, but they have never done it. look at experts who this say that the 76 act, it's a sense was designed as post-watergate reforms to reign in presidential power. that act has failed. it is failed to hold presidents to account. congress has seated, under -- ceded 130 plus provisions weather -- that the president can activate, and have also provided effective oversight for what constitutes a national emergency. steve: walk us through the process. if tomorrow, the president declares a national emergency to begin construction of a border wall, where would he get the money from? what with the courts do? what could congress do? in unchartedre

waters. this should be the president of the united states saying, in a battle with congress, saying i cannot get this done. do a run, i'm going to around congress. i'm going to declare a national emergency. he would issue and and it -- an executive order, there would be and eitheremergency, the department of defense, unallocated funds, use a provision there, or use a different provision that would take money that was designated for natural disaster recovery, and use those funds to build the wall. soon, there would be a couple of things that would happen. the house, congress would take action to try to pass a resolution overturning it. number two, parties affected by the attempt to build the wall would file lawsuits. these could be people who hold property on the border, whose

property may be seized under eminent domain. there could be environmental concerns. democrats in congress who have filed amicus greeks -- briefs, ther -- briefs. there would be a slew of legal challenges. it would take months, if not years to resolve. it would ultimately end up in the supreme court. there are many different opinions, and i'm not a lawyer, but from it -- legal experts, about whether this would withstand legal scrutiny. whether this border withstand. some say the president can do this and get away with it, others say, no, ultimately, the supreme court which is 5-4 conservative majority will have to decide the matter. we will have to see. steve: if all of that were to take place, could the wall construction begin? are with that be put on hold? an unknown is

question. my own sense is that building a wall across thousands of miles, the logistical hurdles are massive. there are environmental issues. there are topographical issues. there are eminent domain issues. that it is hard to see how in practice this wall is going to be built. in theory, if the courts uphold a national emergency that trump declares, and if you were to win reelection, then ok, maybe. i saw one estimate that said it would take 10 years to build a wall at least. the idea that construction would start tomorrow, the day after he declares the emergency, my guess is that some court somewhere would stop the construction of the wall, while this issue was being litigated. this would drag on. --in, we should they give it

think of it in terms of the politics. the president could go to his base and say the courts are now blocking me from building the wall. i am doing every thing i can to build it. that would be a political answer that he would give to his political policy problem that he has created. steve: our guests, -- our guest, matthew dalek. our phones are open. guest: four republicans. (202) 737-0002 four republicans. to texasdent traveling on thursday. before boarding marine one, he had this to say. >> i have the absolute right to declare a national emergency. the lawyers have so advised me, i'm not prepared to do that yet, but if i have to, i will. i have no doubt about it. i will. i have the absolute right to

declare it. sos was passed by congress, when you say was this passed by congress? it was. other presidents have used this. fairly often. i have the absolute right to declare a national emergency. i have not done it yet. i may do it. if this does not work out, i will probably do it. i would say definitely. steve: matthew, what debate do you think is happening internally? win no jared kushner was advising him not to do it. lindsey graham and others are saying go for it. matthew: my sense is there is a dynamic -- is there is a dynamic that is hard to know who trump is listening to. the governance in a chaotic way. my guess is there is a number of conservatives, and they have come out and said this, who worry about the president this precedent this sets. what happens when there's a

democrat? a democrat says climate change is an emergency. declare public health, single-payer health care, basically, the precedent it sets, anything that congress does not declare an emergency and try to do that. some are saying, look, we are losing this fight politically, a majority of the public is against you shutting down the government. people are hurting all over the country, not just federal employees but also farmers and recipientsd people, of government aid. this is a way out. let the courts deal with it, a certain your power, and then you you can say to your supporters you are doing your utmost to fulfill your campaign pledge about building a wall.

then there are probably lawyers who are advising, here are the authorities you have, maybe you cannot do it. it is kind of chaotic because we are in a pretty unprecedented zone. >> seems not to fund border security needs on their own and not take it from other accounts. susan in fort myers, florida, good morning. >> thank you for taking my call. i have a couple of questions and a comment, so bear with me, please. number one, i do not feel that any president should have this much power, regardless of side. we are looking like an authoritarian dictatorship. secondly, can someone please differentiate between the words

immigrant, migrant, refugee/asylum seeker. i believe as far as i know, there are differences and they are being used interchangeably by everybody across the board. i would like to see some more accuracy on that. as far as the emergency situation, i don't see it as an emergency situation on the border but i do blame both sides for having ignored immigration policy. after world war ii -- i am an immigrant, i was barely seven when i came here. right after world war ii, america did not just take everybody in. they took so many people from they just whend you are going to argentina, you

are going here or there. you could not come here without a sponsor in america who paid who paid for our lodging, food, medical, anything until my father got on his feet and he was able to support us. i don't know when that changed. i think we need to hit a happy medium here. it is not a good situation. host: thank you, we will get a response. caller: to the -- guest: to the first point about the power of the state, the fear that a dictator will take over, i think that what we are seeing now is that previously the expectation among the public was that presidents would be restrained in when they declared emergencies. if it looks like a duck and

walked like a duck, it was a duck and everyone will recognize an emergency and the powers that be would be deployed to deal with that emergency. under trump, there is a growing fear and there has always been this fear of authoritarian dictatorship, that someone take over, but those fears have really ratcheted up quite drastically because trump has seemed to avoid or tear down so many of the guard rails. expressesn the caller is valid. in terms of the immigration system, partly what we are seeing now, if you put it into context, a deep sense of frustration across the board that immigration reform has not happened over decades. george w. bush came in and gave an address saying he was going

to reform immigration. barack obama campaigned twice on widespread immigration reform. pretty nativist campaign said that he was going to build a wall and yet the last major immigration reform was in the mid-1980's. what we are seeing is a kind of to gettingproblem comprehensive immigration reform done that would include border include whatalso to do about the millions of undocumented immigrants, the dreamers, the children who were brought here. this is part of a much longer debate and it goes back much ander into american history we are seeing a moment of restriction is him -- restrictionism.

host: you can follow our guest on twitter. matthew dallek, a professor at george washington university. a couple tweets and then back to your phone calls. has decided the senate is just a branch of the white house instead of congress being a coequal branch. congress can override president trump but open -- and open the government but mcconnell will not allow it. the parasites, the illegals, they are freeloading and the wall is what americans who did him in for. if donald can claim a national aergency about the wall, soon-to-be democratic president could declare a national emergency on health care. guest: one of the most interesting dynamics of the republicans in congress. there are a handful in the senate who are up for reelection

in 2020 in places like colorado ,nd north carolina and maine and they are vulnerable. they have come out and said we don't think the government should be shut down, we think we should reopen and then debate about border security, but we don't think we should hold the government in a sense hostage to whether or not we build a wall. so far it has only been a handful of republicans on that. we have seven -- we have seen seven to 10 republicans vote with democrats in the house to reopen the government. the question is whether or not at some point of that dam will break because republicans will realize trump is losing this fight. i am not of -- i am not optimistic because republicans see their own political prospects now but more importantly in 2020 as deeply entwined with trump.

that is why we are seeing mitch mcconnell say essentially i'm going to do whatever trump wants to do on this. host: next call is duane, republican line. caller: good morning. problem with your guest. i am watching what he said and he has not said the was were illegal immigrants. the politician in the news media like to focus on but they are illegal. what happens when you bring illegal people with no paperwork with them? they don't have the ability to speak the language. they put a tax on everybody else. host: we will get a response.

guest: the way i would look at it is there is a humanitarian crisis. primarily from the reporting, you have families who are fleeing places like honduras where they fear for their lives and they are desperate, worried that a child is going to be killed. they are trying to cross the toder, trying to seek asylum protect them because they are worried about their own safety. it is important to keep in mind studies,ost credible immigrants tend to be very productive for the economy. a number of immigrants are doing jobs that a lot of american citizens don't want to do. that is why a lot of businesses support immigration reform. for we are getting with the tweets in the calls is a sense of how complicated the

immigration debate is and how divisive our feelings collectively are on this issue and why it is so hard to get comprehensive immigration reform passed. host: a bill signed in 1976 by gerald ford, passed by democrats and republicans in the house and senate. what is the national emergencies act? the act authorizes the president to declare quote, a national emergency, a declaration under any triggers. passed the rations have addressed the imposition of export controls, limitations on transactions and property from specified nations. guest: it was an attempt after watergate to try to rein in the president and when the president can declare an emergency and also specify once an emergency is declared, what powers the

president intends to use to deal with that emergency. it was also an effort for congress that the president has to renew every year and that congress can overturn the emergency. in practice, it has not worked in congress has not ever reviewed the emergency or overturned an emergency. there was one time since that act was passed by congress really pushed back on a provision. george w. bush wanted to lift federal wage laws in rebuilding after hurricane katrina. there was a uproar in congress and bush rescinded that action. congress has never voted to overturn an emergency. atexample of good intentions reform that have not failed -- that have not worked in practice. host: we welcome our radio audience in the greater washington, d.c. area and on the free c-span radio app.

our conversation with matthew dallek on the issue of what is a national emergency? bill in cleveland, on our democrat line. caller: good morning. when did that national emergency act -- what was it created for but i guess that was answered. does anybody know what the national emergencies that are declared right now by trump? there are three of them. dothere any thing we can about the republican senate and the republican congress that will not censor anything that orange baby does. nothing. president trump, one of the things he has done is

renewed some of the emergencies. there are more than 30 that have been in place since jimmy carter was president. one that he declared had to do russianctions against interference in the u.s. election. host: that was september of last year. guest: and that was criticized by a number of democrats for not going far enough. to get a sense that these emergencies and how they are deployed, they are also filtered through a partisan lens. now, and this was not technically an emergency, but i think the most prominent, one of the most prominent executive orders that trump issued was the travel ban early on in his administration. he had to revive that and he

essentially said we are under imminent threat of having terrorists come in from these particular countries and we've got to ban people from these countries from coming in. and was not declared so far as under the national emergencies act but it gives you a sense of the reach of presidential power he has deployed. host: we should point out that the first one was back in 1979. , jimmy carter's using uranium property after the hostages were taken in that country. lewis joins us from colorado. caller: good morning. law on thisase emergency stuff and i wanted to give that gentleman this case number and that i will hang up and let him talk about it. i wanted to say i have heard a about it aersation

manufactured or just like any other -- if you talk to the , their young kids are never going to get a paycheck, they are never coming back. even though it is unfortunate, some of these federal workers should remember that. patrolama's chief border that runs the agency under him supports president trump with this. are asking for this, not only for our safety but for there's. this controlling case is versusown sheet and tube sawyer. u.s. 579. according to this person i am quoting here, this legal people, there are some $13.1 billion

available -- it was supposed to be used for building housing in afghanistan and iraq. people think we can use that here to secure our country on the southern border, i think they would rather do that and help our border patrol agents so they don't get harmed and we don't have all these kids getting sexually assaulted like they were talking about the other day. host: thank you for the call. guest: that case the caller was referring to was a famous case in which harry truman tried to seize the national steel industry during the korean war. he declared in a met -- he declared a national emergency and was concerned about a labor strike and said we have to have the industry up and running in order to prosecute the war in

korea. the supreme court stepped in and stopped that order and overturned it. justice robert jackson in a famous concurrent laid out the powers of the president. it was one of the rare instances in which the supreme court very strenuously limited presidential powers during an emergency. att case would still be issue if trump were to declare a national emergency. host: bottom line, based on your expertise, what is going to happen? guest: it is hard to see how trump gets out of this box, this political blocs. -- this political box. the national emergency does offer him a way out.

it allows him to say i'm doing everything i can. i have shut the government down, look at my commitment to this issue. he might prevail in the courts and even if he doesn't, he can run for reelection blaming democrats and the courts and the media, three groups he has blamed repeatedly over the past two years, for blocking the border wall and he can go to the country and say reelect me so i can get the wall done. reelect republicans to get that done. that ultimately seems like the most likely scenario. i don't think the democrats have any incentive to give him very much unless they move a little bit and there is some sort of face-saving way trump can claim he got a down payment on the border wall. host: even the president has said this is very much about 2020. guest: they started running for reelection a couple days after he took office and was very upfront about that.

about talking about why he is doing certain things. he says this is for border security and that brings up what the last caller said which is part of the debate is whether a wall would be effective. board of -- there are border patrol experts who said it would be ineffective, that most people coming in are coming in through ports of entry, not in this terrain where there should be a wall. but is all part of a debate you can't take the politics out of this debate because it is front and center and i think trump does need to find a way out, especially because as we are seeing the longest government shutdown in history, it has major consequences in the lives of millions of people and they are not all democratic federal employees.

these are people all across the country and a lot of people are his supporters. and it hurts the economy eventually. host: >> washington journal, live, every day. coming up monday morning, an examination of the class of migrants known as special interest aliens and the role they are playing in the debate over a border wall. and association for career and technical educations stephen dewitt will be on to talk about workforce training. then american federation of government employees policy director jackie siemon discusses the impact of the government shutdown on federal workers. be sure to watch washington journal, live at 7:00 eastern monday morning. join the discussion. >> over 100 new members joined

either the health or the senate for the 116th congress. indiana voters elected republican mike braun to the u.s. senate. he previously served in the state house. he owns a company that manufactures and distributes parse -- parts for trucks. the vice president's brother was sent to the house. he owns to antique malls in indiana and was in the oil and gas industry are being his career. one congressman owns a family farm and home health agency in indiana. he lost his left arm while serving as an officer in the u.s. army during the vietnam war. wisconsin added only one new member to their congressional delegation, representative brian style was elected to succeed his onetime boss, former speaker, paul ryan. he had served on the university

of wisconsin board of regents. before that he was an attorney who worked in private practice in corporate law. michigan elected for new members of congress, all democrats. and 11 succeeded his father in michigan night district. mr. levin previously owned a clean energy firm and worked on energy issues in the administration of former michigan governor jennifer granholm. isresentative rashida tlaib a first palestinian-american woman and the first of two muslim women elected to congress. she previously served three terms in the state house. congresswoman alyssa slotkin served in a variety of roles at the pentagon during the obama administration, culminating in two years as acting defense secretary of international affairs. prior to that she worked in the intelligence committee, including spending time in iraq.

and representative haley stevens started her career working for the obama administration's auto industry ll. she later worked on ways for small and midsize manufacturers to adopt digital manufacturing methods including creating job-training programs. her colleagues elected her as a copresident of the house democrats freshman class. new congress, new leaders. watch it all on c-span. >> to government shutdown is now in its 23rd day, making it the longest in u.s. history. watch the house monday live at noon eastern on c-span, the senate live at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. might governor phil scott began his second term with an address to lawmakers. he laid out his goals of attracting more people to live and work in vermont by improving job opportunities, housing, and education. this is 35 minutes.