of the government shutdown on federal workers. as always we take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next.♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] host: good morning. 4, 2019.nuary 1 as another week dons with major governmentof the shuttered, give us a call unless know how the impact -- shutdown is impacting you. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002.

you can also catch up with us on social media. on twitter it is @cspanwj. on facebook it is facebook.com/cspan. a very good monday morning to you. we have already discussed how 9 federal agencies and 800,000 federal employees have been impacted by the shutdown. we want to hear how it is spreading across the country. you can start calling in now and let us know. phone lines for rep. fattah: -- republicans, democrats, and independents as usual. alan blinder with the headline -- the story noting the sharpest effects of the shutdown are only beginning to emerge across the country. in many parts of the united states, the shutdown has underscored how deeply the federal government is connected to everyday life and the spending standoff created a cascading crises far from the border. native american tribes missed out on millions for federal

funding. farmers have been squeezed with issues from loans and payments and states have written checks to keep some services and property like the statue of liberty running properly. the story also focusing on the economic impacts. it notes there are two big ways the shutdown is disrupting the private sector. many businesses rely on government agencies to conduct business including for regulatory approval and loan programs. the withholding of pay may be causing federal workers to cut spending. one city feeling the brunt is ogden utah where the irs employs many -- ebbed.rowds have "even the dinner crowds are slowing down." people aren't eating out because they aren't working. we are asking how the shutdown has impacted you and your part

of america. democrats, 202-748-8000 is the number. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. margaret is up first, leavenworth, kansas. democrat. go ahead. caller: good morning. i haven't been able to sleep for three or four nights. it is really hard and i am worried that maybe it is an order from putin. maybe he told trump to shut it down, that is how it is destroying our country. can't handle any emergencies if something happens. maybe it is an act of terrorism from putin telling trump to do this because it is like we have been attacked from the inside. host: tell me about leavenworth, kansas. where are you seeing the impact there? caller: there are defense contractors that live here.

there is a military base. i haven't done a survey of people, but i know everyone i talk to is kind of jittery and that is not good. i want to know that we are not under attack from another this in motion because if you were going to attack a country, this would be a real good time to get us because we are not functioning. host: that is margaret in kansas. this is kathy in kentucky, a republican. go ahead. caller: i feel sorry for all these workers out of work right not but i have been there, through the federal government, but the minds around here were shut down and these men did not have nothing to go back to. most of them had to find other jobs. that is just life. i worry about the way the country is going right now hisuse trump does throw

tantrums. when you have pelosi and schumer being bullies, people are not going to get along and it affects the whole country. it is not just the government that is shut down. you have car factories shutting down and stores shutting down. nobody seems to be worried about them. host: does the federal government being shut down matter much in boones camp, kentucky. caller: no. host: you are not seeing the effects? caller: it is not affecting us. of workers in this area just get out here and find something else to do instead of writing about it. host: this is bill, annapolis, maryland. republican. go ahead. caller: the federal government shutdown affected me in a good way because i can drive to work for -- without much traffic. i worked for the federal government for four years in my 20's and i saw the waste and

abuse firsthand and it is ridiculous. we need fewer federal government workers and more private industry. 1 host: do you think we will have more -- fewer federal government workers after the shutdown? caller: i doubt it because they get paid anyway. i am more concerned about contractors working for the federal government that won't get paid back for their time off. these guys have a month, 6 weeks vacation and get paid anyway. i doubt to many of them are sweating. how isn rhode island, the federal government impacting rhode island? tim and i aame is totally disabled individual. obviously, i am concerned about the possibility that food stamps will not arrive next month and they help my monthly income. that being said, i am curious 15,000-person caravan

that is supposed to be gathering in honduras as we speak. i am wondering if some of the callers or you could address that and whether or not we think that is a real crisis. host: do you think it is a crisis, tim? caller: i think the whole immigration needs to be overhauled and i know that is not going to happen with this immediate shutdown, but that being said, there is going to be a problem when 15,000 people show up at the border and the optics of shooting gas and so on and so forth are going to get ugly. i don't know. undecided, essentially, which is why i am on the independent line. maybe that will stimulate discussion among your callers. host: what did you feel about what happened right around election time and all the

concern about the caravan then and that story since the election? caller: again, we are a nation of immigrants. my general opinion is i welcome immigrants. my parents were immigrants. i think immigrants make this country great. at the same time, when you see people rattling cages, climbing over fences with a sense of entitlement that we along here and insist on being here, it turns me off a little bit. my opinion would be to do in that,o what trump scorns get more judges, process people, move them along a lot quicker, but putting people in tents and separating women and children and so on and so forth, how long can you do that? how many tent cities can you build? it is absurd. the alternative is let them push through the barricades and

assimilate into society wherever they go. it is a conundrum to say the least as far as i'm concerned. host: that is tim in rhode island. our question this morning is how is the shutdown impacting you and your part of the country? this from the wall street journal story we talked about earlier looking at the economic impact. wall street saying output expected to grow at 2.2% in the first quarter, less than the 2018.ted 3.1% growth in their projections earlier this month are those numbers we just read. first quarter estimates down slightly from prior ones that came out before the shutdown and likely slip further as the shutdown continues. more on the economic impact. economists estimate the furlough of 380,000 federal workers, meaning they take unpaid leave

costs $1 billion to $2 billion a week in lost economic output. that surrounding error that produces $20 trillion of goods and services a year. an additional 420 thousand federal workers are currently working without knowing when they will be paid. we talked about the federal employee impact and we will talk more about that in our last segment of the "washington journal." we are asking in this first hour, how the shutdown is impacting your part of the country. barbara, how is it impacting berkeley springs, west virginia? personally, it is not impacting at all. i do feel sorry for those it is impacting, but we need that wall. i believe in the shutdown until we get it. the main thing that should be -- also, let me tell you.

my husband served in the military for close to 25 years. -- letovernment workers them consider that their duty to this country so that we can get that wall we need desperately and the main thing that makes me those 30 some congressional people down in puerto rico enjoying the sunshine and they have their entire families with them down there. why aren't their rear ends back up here serving this country and trying to end this thing and give us the wall? give us the wall. host: you are talking about the hamilton production in puerto rico and the reports about the members of congress attending

that? caller: menendez, rubbing oil on some half naked woman. i have seen the pictures of them down there on the beaches enjoying themselves. host: i haven't seen that picture you are talking about, but here is a story in the arts section of the new york times focusing on the hamilton production coming to san juan saying it is coming at a time when puerto rico is still recovering from the devastation nowurricane maria and confronting an outbreak of violence that claimed the life of a well-known singer. mr. maranda born and raised in new york city to parents of puerto rico is devoted to the island and hoping his run of hamilton will call attention to its needs and riches. about 20 members of congress are visiting areas damaged by the hurricane. that in the arts section of the new york times, some reporting on that and focus on that.

cornelius, alexandria, louisiana. how is the shutdown impacting you? worker i was a federal at the bureau here in oakdale. i went through a shut down. we all worked together. i think it was two or three weeks long. we just need to help our fellow federal workers to try and make it through. if you know about prisons, you need walls to keep people in and keep other people out. i am for the wall. host: talk a little bit more about the help you got from the credit union. we lost cornelius. the focus on credit unions in today's story in usa today on the impact on federal workers. some turning to online fundraising and credit unions. gofundme has seen more than 1000 campaigns that raised $150,000 for those affected by the

shutdown. about $6,000 of the 100,000 navy federal credit union customers have enrolled in the loan program for furloughed workers and 50 members of the miami federal credit union, which serves 55,000 people applied for furlough relief. a focus on the impact of government workers. if you want to read today's usa today, brenda in south carolina. what has been the impact in saint stephens? caller: my niece is impacted by the shutdown. she is a tsa agent and i am sort of upset that people would call in and say they support the shutdown because it is not affecting them. they are working without pay. they have bills to pay. they have other obligations. i think it is wrong. how itus needs to be on is affecting the shutdown -- the problem is immigration and we

need to focus on how to solve the immigration problem. host: how do you think we should solve it? caller: a lot of immigrants over here are working. they said some were working for trump. the people that are hiring these thate should deal with it way. if they don't hire them, they won't come over here for jobs. they come over here for jobs americans don't want to do. maybe there is another way to go about it by letting them pay taxes or pay their dues or something. the wall is not going to solve the problem. everybody says they are for the wall. if they were impacted by the shutdown, they would not feel that way. ande was a show last night they have people that cannot pay their medical bills, cannot do things they need to do for their children because they are not getting paid. russia is not being affected by

this. americans are being affected by this. it is wrong. host: that is brenda in south carolina. agents.ioned tsa a lot of focus on the security during the shutdown. the transportation said there increase inicant the number of checkpoint personnel not reporting for duty. withate of absences jumped 7.7% not reporting for duty. that compares with 3.2% back on january 14 last year when there was not a shutdown. charlie in arkansas, republican. what has been the impact in jonesboro? caller: i think we don't think about mollie tibbetts near enough in this conversation. i have not missed this federal government shutdown a bit.

i think about poor mollie tibbetts. that was something the country should not spare and we should do something about that. the signs that -- the guy that signed the checks that killed her, that is endorsement being in that society. he is accountable. he should be held accountable for what that guy did if he is going to employ him. everybody that drinks milk in iowa should think about how much that milk is worth to them when they drink milk from that dairy. they should charge more for milk and have american citizens do the jobs. it is a bad trade-off. host: have you changed the way you eat or what you buy as a result of the conversation over immigration in this country? caller: i don't drink milk and i think we should have the courage to look at what we spend our money on. marijuana going to these cartels

, we should have the conviction to grow your own marijuana because you are supplying these drug dealers. i don't understand how we can be so blind. where is our patriotism? our citizenship should mean something and our citizens should mean something to us, but they don't and it's because they feel entitled. these immigrants don't feel that way. that is a shame for our own government to hate it's people like that. host: that is charlie in arkansas. this is wayne in minnesota, a democrat. whereabouts in minnesota are you? caller: yes. hello? host: turn down your television and listen through your phone. whereabouts in areas -- minnesota are you? caller: it is in the southern part 20 miles from the iowa

border, the middle of the state. host: what is the impact? caller: i haven't seen any impact here, but i have a if they would -- tell trump to show his taxes for the last 10 years, he can have his wall. host: you think that will work? caller: i think he will drop the whole something because he doesn't want to show his taxes. host: this is bob in tulsa, oklahoma. go ahead. caller: i blame the democrats for what they are doing. we just had a truck come through here with 20,000 pounds of marijuana on it and it all comes from mexico. it is smuggled in from the port where they did not have security and i think we need to put that

wall up and i am calling the democrats a bunch of dummies. they don't want to go down and look at it. they are pushing what they want and the heck with everybody else. next voting, is republican. staying i don't believe in them. they are nothing but a bunch of lazy, good for nothing people trying to run a business and don't know how to run it. host: that is bob and oklahoma. more of your calls asking about the ripples of impact across the country. we want to hear how the government shutdown is impacting your part of america. phone lines for democrats, republicans, and independents. this debate continuing yesterday on the sunday shows, including

abc this week, senator dick durbin, the number two democrat talked about the state of negotiations and the role he thinks mitch mcconnell should be playing. [video clip] 1984, senator mitch mcconnell was running for reelection in kentucky. it is time to send out that kentucky bloodhound and look for mitch mcconnell. this week, the senate republicans trying to find solution work shutdown by the white house. it is time for them to speak up and tell mitch mcconnell we want this to end, there is no excuse for the shutdown. a handful of senators will make that >> decision. could you support some overall compromise to include funding for the wall and protections for dreamers? >> remember a few years ago when we had a immigration reform? we worked with -- for 6 months and

came up with a package that dramatically invested in border security. democrats believe in border security. in governmenteve shutdowns as a threat to innocent workers and the -- a tool for the president to use over and over again. put an end to the shutdown and put everything on the table. we were willing to talk about border security when we were talking about daca and dreamers and border security that made sense, not a medieval wall. shows,lso on the sunday senator ted cruz was asked about negotiating part of the shutdown. [video clip] >> the president has said over and over again that he is more than willing to compromise and meet in the middle. the reason we have a shutdown -- let's go back to december. then republican house passed funding for the entire federal government.

it included $5.7 billion for an additional 234 miles of steel barrier. when it got to the senate, chuck schumer and democrats filibustered that bill and said we will not allow the government to be funding so long -- funded so long as they are building a single mile of barrier. the president's position is he is perfectly happy to negotiate to compromise. it doesn't have to be $5.7 billion. democrats have said no. the only thing they are willing to consider is zero. that is not reasonable and that is why we have a shutdown. nightjonathan swan last put his look ahead to the state of negotiations. this is what he found in his conversations over the weekend "nobody could describe an exit ramp and it seems there is no end in sight. the only thing everyone agrees on is president trump is so far

any in, there is little if chance he will reopen without democrats. inviting rank-and-file democrats to the white house hoping they may be willing to negotiate over funding for a barrier. they are planning to target freshman members. republican officials involved conceded to jonathan swan it is a stretch to imagine the white house could break nancy pelosi's strong command of her caucus. what is next? president trump has so far held off on declaring a national emergency. several republican members are urging president trump publicly and privacy -- privately not to do so. day 24 of the government shutdown as we get it for another week of negotiations and back-and-forths. how is the government shutdown

impacting your part of the country? sandra in ohio, republican. go ahead. this to say about the shutdown. i support it totally. i also have advice to the people who have been affected by the shutdown that are waiting to go back to work is that they have temporary places you can go and get temporary jobs. it's only minimum wage, but they have those. until you do.job host: do you think the shutdown has made any impact in western -- worcester? caller: not that i know of. the last few years, i have seen a bunch of immigrants coming into this town and it is

frightening to see what is happening with the caravans and everything. idon't know why anyone -- don't understand it. of course it is a crisis. way.trump all the mr. president, go for it. host: president trump tweeting a few minutes ago saying i have been waiting all weekend, democrats must get to work now, border must be secured. bruce in lakeland, florida. what has been the impact of the shutdown in lakeland? bruce, are you with us? caller: yes, i am. host: what has been the impact in lakeland? caller: mostly republicans are going crazy, like usual. the biggest problem is they have had two years, the republicans, to pass this thing. they could have past it in a matter of seconds.

it isl of a sudden becoming it has to be done because democrats are starting to take over. why did they wait two years for this? they really don't want the wall. what they want is to blame democrats and that is the way they usually do things. host: that is bruce in florida. this is tom in vermont, independent. go ahead. caller: yes, sir. i am 100% behind mr. trump and .he wall it goes right back to follow the money. democrats want on all the contracts for the drones down all those companies and they want drones so their companies will show big profits. these government contracts are extremely lucrative. as long as democrats are in charge, they were happy to appropriate money for the

security down on the border because they were directing the money to their companies. i think all the politicians need to have their taxes and income revealed. if you are a politician, your finances should be an open book and that would put an end to a lot of this fighting. host: a few comments from social media. pamela writing on facebook to this question, our oldest son with disabilities has been laid out from his job since the end of april last year. he was hired recently at our local wawa store. the shutdown affected more than 800,000 federal employees because he cannot start his new job without a background check. there will be a backlog for them to process those, something for everyone to think about. ernest says i works in the department of education.

people who want degrees are paying out of pocket for this first semester. one more from dan saying i am an excepted employee, so i have to continue reporting to work every day. i applied for a loan so i can pay for the gas to get to work, my rent, and child support. i know i will eventually get paid, god bless the united states. we will be talking with a representative of the nation's largest federal employee union, the american federation of government employees happening out about two hours later in our program. we have been asking what the impact has been of the shutdown in your part of the country. walt in alabama. a republican. what do you think? john.: good morning, good morning, america from trump -- country in alabama.

if you want to see how serious the democrats are about compromising on this, i ask you to draw a -- draw up drudge report and look at senator mendez from new jersey. look at him on the beach partying with it looks like a bikini.old lady in a all you listeners, pull up drudge. i won't -- they won't say this on the major network, but you will see it on drudge. host: the headline in drudge, democrats party in puerto rico during the shutdown. sun and fun. there is the story the viewer was talking about. dallas is next in alabama. democrat. go ahead. say i: i just want to

think the shutdown has affected everybody as far as the attitudes. america and we need to understandher and i that there is a problem with the , butrants coming over here what i am trying to say -- this has been going on a long time had two yearsump to get something done before even the democrats took office. something that you know as a leader you need to get done and thatre a leader, i feel

while you've got the people in your corner that are for you, you should have went ahead and did what you need to do instead of waiting until the democrats get into office and then want to put up a fight like this. what i am trying to say is if we andlook at this rationally thatnest with each other these people are supposed to be working for the american people, the good of the people. i am talking about, you have a lot of people that got so thatsh that it is not them is without a paycheck and really don't care if these people get paid. what i am trying to say -- you

will have a domino effect and some people don't care about a domino effect, it will affect every american. affect a just going to few. it will affect all of us. host: that is dallas from alabama. more from president trump via twitter. nancy and crying chuck can end the shutdown in 15 minutes. it has become their and the democrats' fault. we keep taking your calls asking what the impact of the shutdown has been in your part of the country. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. it is just after 7:30. want to keep you updated on what else is happening on capitol hill. a lot of attention will turn to the president pick for his next attorney general.

william barr, the former attorney general under george h. w. bush will be aiming to impress senators at his senate confirmation hearing. if confirmed, he will be the 85th chief law enforcement officer of the united states. he was the 77th attorney general of the united states. democrats are concerned about his past comments and words .bout the mueller investigation some democrats calling on him to recuse himself as a condition of his confirmation. he will have to assess a multitude of weighty questions if he does become the next attorney general from the president executive authority to the challenge of lifting sagging morality inside a sprawling department that has been a punching bag for the president for two years. the wall street journal takes a look at key senators to watch in the upcoming confirmation hearings.

they start on tuesday and you can watch them on c-span. some key figures, senator lindsey graham, the chairman of the senate judiciary committee. thesasse has often lamented partisanship he sees in washington. two potential 2020 contenders, booker,arris, senator and a veteran of the confirmation hearings, the top democrat on the panel will give the opening statement summarizing democratic concerns about the nomination. please watch it here on c-span. in greenfield, tennessee. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. about theng to say shutdown, there is no reason for the shutdown. we need someone that is going to stop acting like a child and open the country and then

discuss about the wall. no one needs a wall. this is not a communist country. we don't need that. we need working people going to work. they are working for the citizens of our country. we are not concerned about people that want to hold everybody at bay until he has his way like a child throwing a temper tantrum. host: has the shutdown made any different in greenfield, tennessee, that you can see? caller: groceries are up because we need the guys driving the trucks and inspectors to inspect the food. we will have another outbreak of something because there is not enough people working to inspect the food and we have to eat. host: you have seen grocery prices rise in the past 24 days? caller: yes. there is no reason for that. there is no reason for anything. host: this is mike in rockford,

illinois. what has been the impact in rockford? caller: yes. a lot of people are scratching their heads, basically. basic mathematics is left out of this question. $18re sending -- spending billion a year on the southern border security. i will repeat that, $18 billion a year. this $5 billion is a form of extortion to me. number two, legislators getting paid twice. they are getting paid by the american people and lobbyists. we pay them $170,000. that 33,000 a week we are -- 3000 a week is basically pocket change. let's ask how they should pay, not the taxpayers. for once going on a newspapers

saying president is with putin and talking about this border over and over. we lost 14,000 homes in california and nobody talks about it. they are building a wall, not on the border. the problem is they are not building on the border. you say you cannot mess with texas, they are stealing hundreds of thousands of acres and they are messing with texas. host: took claudia in tallahassee, florida. what has been the impact in tallahassee? quite sure ofot the total impact. what i do think is we are the united states of america. the united states of america. we have got to spend $5 billion southern --a few

south american individuals -- central american individuals. this is shameful. on top of that, the people who work for the government are suffering as a result. we are the united states of america. syria,fend off russia, everybody else, but these hungry people from south america and central america. this is absolutely ridiculous. host: henderson, north carolina. cindy, independent. what has been the impact in henderson? caller: it has not affected us at the moment, but i don't agree with the shutdown. i am totally for president trump . the woman that just called in right before me saying we are the united states of america.

yes, and we should be able to protect our borders. this is ridiculous. there is another caravan coming. i feel sorry for the ones working right now, but if we don't take care of this now, we spend onh money the illegal immigrants coming over. they are coming in by the thousands a day. how long can the united states of america sustain this? host: do you think it is a natural -- national emergency right now? caller: absolutely, i do. host: do you think the president should declare that and find money from military budgets to build the wall? caller: i wish emma kratz could come to the table. i wish it could be taken care of legislatively. they are down in the caribbean right now partying when the president has been waiting for them to come with some kind of proposal.

they haven't put anything on the table. they are just destructive. they are not for the american people. they are for money in their pockets. host: cindy in north carolina. on the issue of the president declaring a national emergency, senator lindsey graham was asked on fox news sunday about that idea and here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> i ask him, mr. president, if you want to go down the emergency path, i stand with you. he said 30 minutes ago, that is my last option. the legislative route is the best way to go. let's make a deal, but i will do it if i had to. , theve found in the past president declared emergencies for different things. before he pulls the plug on the legislative option, i would urge him to open up the government for a short period of time like three weeks before he pulls the plug, see if we can get a deal.

if we cannot at the end of three weeks, all bets are off. that is my recommendation. i think the legislative path is about shut off because nancy pelosi said even if you open the government, i will give you one dollar for the wall. boards of aitorial couple major newspapers this morning writing about this idea of declaring a national emergency for the president to find funding to build the wall. the usa today editorial board assaying don't do it. a national declaration would be misguided and destructive, and overreach of executive power and stretches the definition of an emergency. republicans must know they will not control the white house forever. don't they remember denouncing "king obama" for his executive overreach? would they want a future

president to declare a national emergency of gun violence, climate change, or health care? through at is bipartisan compromise, not by bending the law or the constitution. democrats think they cannot afford to have the president let a victory. they cannot lose the mexican standoff. the president has a card up his sleeve and chuck and nancy don't. he can order the military to get to work on the wall without congressional approval. congress is looking for opportunities to abdicate their -- strikes us as an emergency. if you want to read that, it is in today's washington times. luis in fredericksburg, virginia. republican. go ahead. caller: i am here in government

territory. almost everyone works for the government. they have brand-new cars and big suvs and live in mcmansions. i did not see the government employees so worried about people like my brother who was off work five weeks of pay every year and had to take a one day every two weeks with leave without pay in government lingo. they did not have sympathy for people like my brother who works construction and over the eight year. -- period from 2009 until last november, he was back on an 80 hour work week -- pay. they did not care about my brother work -- losing a year's worth of wages. why should i care about the government workers?

go out and find another job. that is what they told the rest of the country, go find another job, take some training. take computer science when you cannot add two and two together. i have no sympathy for the government workers. they drive up the cost of housing everywhere they are go. they are arrogant and feel entitled to a job with the government. go get a job just like you told the rest of the hundreds of millions of us out here through the past eight years. go get another job. in granddorothy and -- rapids, michigan. what has been the impact of a shutdown in grand rapids? is why are wecern focusing on all wall? our focus should be on russia because we may lose.

what good is a wall without a country? that is my question. host: earnie in middleton, new york. an independent. tell us about middleton. itler: i am a veteran and hasn't impacted me at all. just to think that 35% of a lot of federal workers are being impacted does bother me. the wall is important, but if it would be an, it emergency. it would take so long for the wall to be built that it is not a crisis, it is said to be a crisis. people should be paid for the workaday do. host: what is the right way to go about this? caller: open up the government. make sure the people at the bottom are not suffering. why do people at the bottom

always suffer? if not, shut down the government from the top. people -- shutting down the people making $35,000 a year is not the way to do it. host: joel is in mooresville, indiana. caller: it's about 16 miles southwest of indianapolis. host: are you feeling the government shutdown there at all? caller: not at all. what i wanted to say was back in the 90's when -- 1990's when the government shutdown a lot of aerospace contracts, thousands of us got laid off, not one government worker was concerned about our layoffs. also, about the walls, all we have to do is move it over to and $58 billion democrats want to give to foreign aid.

all they have to do is give the foreign aid to mexico and the wall would be built with no problem because they will agree with that. host: why do you think they will agree with that? caller: they are willing to give -- get foreign aid from us. they are willing to give to foreign aid, why can't they gave the united states aid? that is what i would like to know. host:host: that is joel in indiana. we want to keep hearing about the ripples of the government shutdown and where it is impacting you and what you are seeing. phone lines as usual. democrats, republicans, and independents. we focused on the president's tweets. a few more on foreign policy from yesterday evening. president trump threatening turkey on sunday with harsh economic sanctions if it attacks kurdish forces in syria after american troops withdraw from the country in the coming months

. i will take you to the president's tweets. the president saying we are starting the long overdue pullout from syria while hitting the little remaining isis territorial -- territory hard. devastate turkey economically if they hit the kurds, create a 20 mile safe sound. it not want of the kurds to provoke turkey, russia, iran, syria have been the biggest beneficiary of the policy of destroying isis in syria. the president saying it is time to bring our troops back home. the new york times saying mr. trump's tweets marked the first public threat toward turkey over the kurds and seem to offer a blanket of protection for the group -- a band of american backed militias the turkish government sees as terrorists.

back to your calls, want to hear from you about the impact of the shutdown. kathy has been waiting in ohio. caller: i have not personally experienced the impact, but i appreciate the callers calling in about the specifics of people -- employed getting not getting paychecks. i am listening to these comments democracystate of our . the fact the government is shutdown as a political ploy to solve a problem that should be a democracy of compromise -- why can't we reach a compromise? it doesn't have to be one way or the other -- there are many ways to address border security. host: what is the compromise you would put on the table? caller: i think the american

public needs more information about what the real data is on border security. it has been played back and forth. it's minimal, it's maximal, it's an emergency, it's not an emergency. and voters, it is on us to look at both sides of the story and get real information and -- before we weigh in. i don't believe there should be a wall, but i believe border security is important and we need more information. host: in 10 minutes we will be ,oined by alex nowrasteh talking about the statistics on crime when it comes to illegal immigration, border security, having that discussion from 8:00 open30 and at 8:30 we will our phones up and asked viewers for their compromise, what you think both sides might be able 24 ofept as we are in day this ongoing government

shutdown. that will be happening for the next hour on the "washington journal." carolina,th independent. what has been the impact in your part of the country? caller: i am a retired marine. most of the people employed here are probably dod or retired, so the people under the umbrella -- i am not sure the impact. i don't think it has affected us as of yet. as far as the wall is concerned, everyone is forgetting he said he would own the shutdown and mexico would pay for it. we all want border security any has approximately $1.3 billion or $1.6 billion he can use for sensors and cameras and things like that. that money hasn't been used yet. that would be my compromise. spend that money now and work with a compromise on the other site to get funding for a

potential barriers or walls or fences or wherever. host: you talk about the president saying he would own the shutdown. the president about half an hour ago walking away from that. the president saying nancy and crying chuck can end the shutdown in 15 minutes. at this point it has become their, the democrats fault. pat in montana. what has been the impact of the shutdown out there? caller: we don't have any problem so far in the communities i live in. why don't we really know what our representatives -- how they feel? all we get is what nancy or whomever tells us? a vote todayhave and find out actually how our representatives feel and see if maybe we could not just stop it in its tracks. host: what did you think of the series of votes that took place

last week in the house on opening various parts of the government outside of the homeland security department on bringing those back online? did you think that was the kind of vote you were looking for? caller: why don't we have a vote on the entire thing and get it over with instead of this piecemeal? host: how would you frame that vote? what would be the voting -- the wording of the vote? openr: open the border, the negotiations or give trump .he $5 billion as a normal voter or taxpayers, we don't know $5 billion from $25 billion. that is a figure we like to say, it is a lot of money. in the big picture of the budget, it is nothing. it is nothing and it doesn't affect a 99% of us. why don't we get the vote over

with and get it done instead of this back-and-forth? is next in spring, texas. what has been the impact in spring, texas? i amr: personally, affected a few ways. i am of veteran on disabilities and there are at least four different government offices i need to call at this moment especially since my prescription changed, medication changed -- insurance related issues. on that. question the department of veterans affairs is funded through fiscal 2019, 1 of the agencies they were able to fund that is not shutdown. are these agencies outside federal affairs or are you saying there have been impacts even at agencies that remain funded and open? caller: there are three other agencies i need to call related that are shutdown now. one is actually -- i have an

issue with the fbi currently attending -- pending. thessue is actually instability and the instability around the shutdown as with every other issue, it seems to be as of late how anybody -- most people like to say they can find another job or do this or do that. these are fellow citizens and they actually go to work one day and the next day -- you might have to go to work, but you are not getting paid. imagine yourself in that position. you have mortgages and childcare pending. if you have to go to work and not getting paid, imagine your boss telling you, you are going to work for the next 30 days and not getting paid. people are insensitive because it doesn't direct -- affect them directly or it affects somebody of a different party. we need to be more civil.

put yourself in somebody else's shoes. all of this for a project they still haven't finished getting all the land, the property from finished theaven't 700 miles from the project 10 years ago. how long do they think it will take for them to approve the land and get through the court cases to build this? it is a manufactured crisis. they need to get over it, past some bills to get other parts open and work on the homeland security part separately. they need to get people back to work and get their lives back again. host: you mentioned the secure fence act of 2006. what was it like in your part of texas in the years after that act was passed? caller: i wasn't living in texas then.

in 2006, i was living in alabama. luckily, i have been more politically inclined or -- over the past several years. i do know all the nasa nations -- machinations of how they have gone through the iterations -- they still have land they need to obtain to comply with the security fence act of 2006. they still do not have that land. they still have court cases to go through. this wall will not be billed anytime soon. -- built anytime soon. whilean hash this out letting people put their lives together. waiting in has been chattanooga, independent. caller: good morning. it is good to hear everyone.

i am so thankful that we live here in america. the only thing with the situation is that there are so many people who are hurting, and if one of us hurts, the rest of us hurt. that is the way i look at it. we are all hurting because of the situation. host: how are people feeling the hurt in chattanooga? caller: in chattanooga so far, we are doing fine. we have a lot of government, federal government, buildings and entities here. we have a lot of people that work for the federal government. are doing ok here in chattanooga, but the effect will be seen greatly shortly if this continues. host: why do you think that? caller: because so many people

are depending on the federal government for different things. that is just how it is. i have one thing to ask. can i ask? host: go ahead. wall isif the permitted, then who is going to the gold that trump will demand his name be put in on the section of the wall? i am sure he will ask the have his name put on the wall. who is going to have to pay for all the gold that will have to be put there. host: julia in tennessee. this is mike in florida, republican. caller: good morning. just a few issues. it did impact me when i was traveling back from new york with a superlong tsa line, but

as far as west palm beach, the only thing i am seeing is a report on the news today saying everyone will get their welfare checks, everyone will get there aid, but if they did -- their aid, but if they did shut that down, which is mostly a democratic anger that people are drawing from, people would change their tune. there aid,id not get they will not care about the people in mexico. esn't anyoney do trust the government? look what happened to cuba, when castro said he would dump things in florida. be knowe powers that something that the general public does not know. maybe there should be more transparency. last caller in this

first segment of the "washington journal." up next, we will be joined by alex nowrastehs about a special class of immigrants known as special interest aliens. ♪ >> tonight on "the communicators" -- >> we are talking about cyber off to technology. it has been around for decades. the idea is a very thin strand allows, as far as we can tell, unlimited amounts of information to be pumped through it i lasers. it is used around the world, under sees, to carry

communications. more and more countries are ensuring everyone -- every one of their citizens has access to a fiber-optic connection. >> susan crawford discusses her book "fiber." >> there will be no wire better than fiber that will emerge over the next few decades. now, leavingight behind a lot of the country when it comes to great communications capacity. as a nation, we are falling behind in a mobile race to be the place where new ideas come from. >> watch "the communicators" tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. >> c-span. where history unfolds daily. was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. today, we continue to bring you

unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> "washington journal" continues. alex nowrasteh joins us now, droning is after the trump d theistration cite thousands of "special interest aliens" and counted at the border as a reason for the southern border wall. explain how one gets classified as a special interest alien. guest: there are two characteristics that determine that of the individual traveler. ae first is if they come from country designated as an origin place for special interest aliens. this is set by the department of

homeland security. so which countries are more likely to send or produce terrorists. the second is based on the travel patterns of the individual involved. as far as we can tell by our analysis, and government does not make clear what the travel patterns are, if you are not able to get a visa to come to the u.s. directly or go to central america and we get up to the border, as far as we can tell, that is good enough to get on a list of designated special interest aliens. host: explain special interest aliens vis-a-vis terrorist watch list. guest: they are not the same. the terrorist watch lists are individuals who are known or suspected to be involved in terrorist organizations in funding or recruitment or fighters. a special interest alien is just someone from one of those country or a country that has produced some terrorism, or a country that u.s. intelligence agencies inc. could produce --

think could produce terrorism at some point in the future. they are not the same. although someone can be a known terrorist and from a country designated as a source for special interest aliens. host: last weekend, usa today had a column on the humanitarian and security crisis the u.s. is facing at the border. dhs met -- how many have gone on to the arrested for attempted terrorism in the united states? you extend backwards to 1975 to the most comprehensive list possible and bring it to 2017 and include any

country that has ever been on this list, because usually there are countries that are put on the list and got off of it -- there are 62 total countries that have ever been on it. you look at that, you look at people who have crossed the border or entered the border into the united states, they have been zero terrorist attacks in the united states caused by a special interest alien. there have been zero people murdered in those nonexistent attacks. they have been people arrested for planning such attacks inside the united dates -- inside the united states. there were a total of seven who entered illegally from special interest countries, who have been convicted of planning a terrorist attack on u.s. soil. fromone of them have come the u.s. border with mexico. they either enter through canada or jumped ship to the united states. host: we are talking about some of the statistics surrounding

illegal immigration in the u.s., some of these issues that have come up, especially when it comes to crime rates. special interest aliens is a reason we are having this segment. if you want to call in, democrats can call in at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we want to go back to your column from mid december in the "new york daily news" -- trump's wall will not stop terrorism. why? guest: terrorists who want to do harm in the united states do not cross the southern border to do so to commit their attacks. if you look at terrorist trial patterns to the united states, they use legal means, usually tourist visas or some other temporary visa. veryg unlawfully is dangerous and risky.

16,000 border patrol agents on the southern border. there are less migrants for them to hide among. president with a tweet yesterday, late yesterday evening, saying that the trump portrait of an unstable border crisis is dead on, saying that in the last two years, there have been thousands of arrests of aliens with credit -- criminal aliens, including those charged with 30,000 six crimes, 4000 violent killings. america's southern border will eventually become militarized and defended, or the united states as we know it will cease to exist. guest: when you talk about people arrested by i.c.e., those are also people released from prison.

you are talking about people who have been released and then deported from the united states. when you compare crime rates, like homicide, with illegal immigrants and u.s. citizens, legal immigrants are half as likely in any given year to the convicted in texas than a native born american is. when it comes to -- per 100,000 of the population of both illegal immigrants compared to that of natives. say where you get these numbers from? guest: the worst thing about this debate is there are not a lot of great statistics on crime. the federal government does not track it. but the state of texas does. it is the only state that does.

i get this data from the department of public safety. they have released information to me that allows me to compare crime rates for specific crimes and overall of illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, nativeborn americans. for virtually every crime in this analysis, native born americans are more likely to be convicted of a crime than illegal immigrants. legal immigrants are the least crime prone. host: you have look at specific areas where there are a lot of illegal immigrants, comparing crime rates there compared to where there are not a lot of illegal immigrants. guest: people who focus on the border, we look at the crime rates in border counties. that is all compared to the interior of the united states. we found homicide rates in those counties is about 25% below that of the rest of the united states. weree u.s. was as peaceful

-- they would be fewer homicides in 2019 relative to what they really were. of course, there are crimes on the border, homicides on the border, lots of different crimes that occur there, but compared to the rest of the country, it is more peaceful than people give it credit for. host: the cato institute. remind people what the kitty to -- cato institute does. guest: it is a libertarian think tank in washington, d.c. we research basically every policy issue. if you had $5.7 billion to thest in solving immigration issue at the border, how would you invest it? guest: the number one thing to do is make it possible for people to come here illegally, who are lower skilled workers from central and south america, so they do not have to ask for

asylum. using a guest visa like this would channel the geordie of these people to the market and take pressure off order patrol. the number two thing i would do was make it possible for these folks, who are being apprehended at the border, mostly asylum-seekers, to the released into the u.s. with ankle bracelets and caseworkers who can monitor them and other methods to make sure they show for their court cases to make sure they can file their claims, and if their claims are denied, they can be removed. host: we will let you chat with our callers. ray is waiting, republican. caller: i kind of missed the point of him saying how many illegals were actually coming into this country every year. that is the first part. second, even if a wall would prevent one american citizen from dying, wouldn't you want that wall, no matter what the

situation? guest: the total number of illegal immigrants -- these are based on estimates -- we have found the total stock of illegal immigrants is down by about a little less than 2 million over the last 11 years. we had 10.7 pew, million illegal immigrants into thousand 16. it was over 12 million in 2007. the net annual inflow is actually negative during that time period. that does mean there are not people entering illegally or overstaying visas, but it means there are more people leaving then coming in. since 2013, estimates are from the center for migration studies in new york that 60% to 70% of -- immigrants to the u.s. new illegal immigrants came into the u.s. legally and then overstay their visas. there better ways to prevent

murderers in the united states then building a border wall, when it comes to the money? aroundd cost somewhere 36 billion dollars to $50 billion to build the entire wall across that order, even though most illegal immigrants are entering legally currently. that money could be spent on more police officers, to prevent homicides. on ways to improve criminal justice or other techniques. we could save a lot more lives that way rather than building a wall on the southwest border. save americano lives, not just the current way. host: western new york, jane, democrat. caller: hi. thank you for c-span. i agree with what the gentleman said.

these are supposed to be fiscal conservatives that are going about this. maybe they should keep that gofundme thing going if they really want to pay for it and are behind it. keep it going until they get the money. they are so cavalier about that amount, yet they would not spend that on having people health insurance. that did not have it. show people into emergency rooms now. instead of doing something about that situation. guest: the government spends billions of dollars fighting health insurance to people in the u.s., but i think the more pressing issue is you are correct. a lot of fiscal conservatives sort of throw their principles

out the window when it comes to issues of border security, even though we have many fewer unlawful immigrants coming illegally then we used to. i think we need to find the best way to control the situation, to get control of the border, and that is not building more fences or putting more agents, it is allowing folks to come in legally, so they do not have to try to sneak in, so ordered her troll can focus on actual security threats, who actually mean to do us harm, rather than trying to separate willing american employers from voluntary workers. hill who here in capitol do you think has been principled in this escutcheon? guest: -- discussion. been ai think there have number of people. a representative from michigan, republican, has come around to this position over the years.

i think lindsey graham has been mostly reasonable over the years, although he goes back and forth on this. and there have been numerous democrats. the democratic party has changed its support -- it used for support border wall's and a lot of enforcement, and now it is very skeptical of that and is generally favorable to increasing lawful immigration. but these things change over time. so who knows where it will stand in a couple years. host: virginia beach, anthony is an independent. caller: good morning. i think this whole issue is being pushed to the side. if walls are immoral, let's stare down the walls. if all of these people coming in are so beneficial for us, why not say just open the borders instead of going through this back-and-forth? furthermore, what are they running from? are they running from crimes?

are they, themselves, the criminals? where we are now is a bad situation. if we continue this, we will not exist as a nation. the only reason i think we do stats in termste of what these people are doing is because it has been done by us. we are putting ourselves in danger, thinking this would not happen. let it continue and we will be in trouble. guest: a lot of the main evidence is these folks coming are primarily from central american countries. there is evidence murder rates in these countries influence the flow. there was work by an economist showing that for each additional murder, there is a large increase in the number of asylum-seekers from those countries coming to the u.s. but there is also evidence of them coming here for economic opportunity. a lot of them have family members in the u.s.. u.s. rates of economic growth, combined with job opportunities,

combined with the fact they can enter mexico illegally, lawfully, in many cases, as well as with the increasingly bad crime situation in central america, i think all of these all factors -- i think our the main factors. are less likely to be incarcerated than native one americans in u.s. prisons. and they are less likely to be convicted of crimes once they come into the united states. and i are less likely to be arrested, even though texas has higher police clearance rates, meaning that police are just as likely or a little more likely to solve crimes in states with a lot of illegal immigrants then states that do not have many. host: david in virginia, democrat. good morning. i would like to point

out the symbolism of this wall. you're going to have the statue of liberty at one end, saying give us your tired and poor, then have trump's wall on the other and. if you are brown, keep out, if you're white, stay in. that is what this is about. thank you. guest: there is obviously a lot critic wouldwith a say is the statue of liberty is here to welcome legal immigrants. what i would say in response to that is it is very difficult to come to this country legally, especially if you are a low skilled worker. it is virtually impossible. there are about 5000 green cards a year for low skilled workers not related to americans. there are very few guestworker visas available. existed when our ancestors came in the 19th and 20th century, there would be

many more illegal immigrants. i agree that the wall is a bad symbol. the statue of liberty is assigned of people we have been in the past and hopefully will continue to be going forward. the main issue is not the simple, but the walls -- laws behind them. it is difficult to come to this country legally, which is the main reason we have illegal immigration problem we have today. people tossible for come who are local -- low skilled, and you will not have this problem. host: from twitter, the gentleman seems to legalize the undercutting of wages from american citizens. not a winning platform. guest: it may not be a winning political platform, but the economic evidence is pretty clear. the most active study, the larger study being done on this, has found immigration from 1990 to 2010, one over 30 million people came to this country,

lowered the relative wages of american high school drop off desk dropouts by 1.7%, while wages for every other group of americans went up. high school american dropouts are about 9% of the american workforce. the vast majority of american workers benefit from immigration. that is according to the most negative study against my position. there are many studies that find even low skilled american workers actually win and have higher wages as a result of immigrants coming to this country, even though skilled ones. ,ost: jacksonville, florida david is next independent. caller: thanks for taking my call. i have a question about the illegals already here. we are worried about 15,000 so-called caravan coming up, but there are estimates ranging from 11 million, and the far right media once to say there arm --

than to say there arm more 20 million illegal immigrants already here. why is there not more discussion fication and penalizing employers hiring these people? when i was working, we went to great lengths to make sure everyone was legal. if there are that many people here, there ought to be serious penalties against those companies hiring them. and what is the actual number? is there aretimate somewhere between 10.5 million to 12 point 5 million illegal immigrants currently in the u.s. there could be a few million more or less than that. this is based on statistical evidence from census data. you have to take that for what it is worth. but the professionals sort of agree on that range we had when otheres to e-verify and

proposed methods, what it is supposed to do is, when you get a job, the employer is supposed to run your identity documents, the identity documents you give your employer, through this system to make sure you are a guaranteed and verified legal worker. the problem with this system is that they check, the -- they youk the identity documents give them. let's say i am an illegal yourrant and hand them identity documents. for afy will approve me job. that is why in places like arizona, the impact on wages a small, because most illegal immigrants who know about the system get better and better fake identification to be able to go around it. what is even more interesting is that states where e-verify is

mandatory, like south carolina, only aboutthers, half of new hires are even run through the programs in these states. these states do not want to enforce an e-verify mandate, saying it would be costly and hurt mostly small businesses, and no one wants to hurt small businesses. host: from twitter, what are the penalties? guest: the penalties depend on the state level. there is no e-verify federal mandate. allowsy is a tool that employers to use it. some federal contractors have to ae e-verify, but there is not federal mandate. some states require e-verify to be used for new hires. and there are penalties and a lot of them for knowing or intentionally hiring illegal immigrants, but not for not using e-verify.

in south carolina, the government does audits to make sure people use e-verify when they hire folks, but the penalties are usually very small. something like being put on a government list. they monitor you for six months to make sure you are using it, then they get off the list. when governor napolitano in arizona signed it into thousand eight, she called it the business that penalty. it was used a total of three times, twice on businesses already bankrupt. it is not something that politicians like to use, but it is a good talking point. host: david is next, fairfax, virginia, republican. caller: thanks for taking my call. first, thank you to the institute for doing this research. even as a republican and, i would say, libertarian think tank, i am curious to get all

the information. i cannot seem to get that from standard news media on either side. so i am very appreciative of that. spell cato soyou i can go online and research? second, one are the cato institute's recommendations for fixing this problem as a whole? i have friends from many different countries, australia, central america, south america, europe, who, for various reasons, cannot come, have a hard time staying. if you people who i know are here illegally, but they are good people. how do we fix this problem so we can keep good people here? guest: first, thank you for the compliment. i am proud to work at cato. you can find more at cato.org. and i am on twitter. solving thes to

legal and illegal immigration problem, two things are important. peoplemake it easier for to come here illegally -- le gally. experts have said that the united states immigration law is second in complexity only to the income tax. we need to make it easier for people to come here legally. and if they are not a threat, be able to stay here and work and live legaly. -- legally. if we made it easier for people who are low skilled, midscale, high skilled, low education, a lot of education, we have to for it easier and cheaper people to stay here. on top of that, i would say legalizing unlawful immigrants -- those who are here illegally, who are not violent or property

criminals or national security threats, give them a work permit, eventually a path to a green card and citizenship, is the way to solve this. host: arlene, democrat. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i want to make a comment. i think trump has laid government workers off to throw chaos into the country and throw off focus to his relationship with putin. trump is very close to the russians. host: care to comment on the russia investigation? guest: i have no comment on that issue. host: we will have 30 minutes of phones coming up in a bit. it is certainly a topic we can bring up. cynthia is in ohio, independent. go ahead. caller: hi.

i believe the wall stands as a symbol -- that we desire all who come in to our country use the system and processes we require. this makes it fair to those who choose to come legally. visible believe it is -- i do not believe it is a symbol that we do not want anyone to come into our country. it just keeps out those itesirable, make them do like everyone else who comes in fairly. i applaud trump for making the effort. i have no problem with the gofundme. i am certainly part of that. i feel those of us who have the same ideas that i've are willing open --willing -- just eventually, this country will not be owned by this country. all it takes is one or two terrorists to come in illegally, and they can instigate 9/11 or something like that.

host: how much have you personally pledged towards the wall? caller: i have not made that ledge yet. when the comment was made now, i thought that myself, that is right, there is a gofundme, and shame on me, because i am so goerested in this, i should for it. i do not have a lot of money, but i feel the desire to have a tobol that we want everyone come through the legal process. thet: first off, none of 9/11 hijackers came in illegally. andame in on tourist visas one came in on a student visa. some overstayed their status. but none entered that way. so even if the wall had been there, it would have had no effect on people injured in the

united states. the majority of illegal immigrants enter legally and overstay their visas. the wall has no effect on that. i have no interest on the symbolism of this. that is for other people to debate. but in terms of the effectiveness of the wall, it is very expensive. to $26 cost $24 million million per mile and an additional $1 million to maintain each year after that. i do not think it will be effective at keeping out illegal immigrants, especially because most are overstaying their visas. a couplee for just more calls. charlotte, houston, texas. go ahead. caller: i hate to say this, but i am going to say it. you are all a bunch of pencil pushers. if you do not even live in the areas -- i live in the south. i live in texas. immigrationlegal

and what it is doing. i worked for people who were here illegally, making the same amount of money as i am, then correcting, because none of them were married, they have two last names, and they use it. come on down and see how it is. you push the pencils around and give these little figures, but you know nothing. you truly know nothing. guest: one of the reasons i am interested in this issues because i grew up in los angeles and in ventura county. los angeles and california and california in general has more illegal immigrants than any other urban area in the united states. i grew up with it. the farms i used a run by in gym class were full of illegal immigrants, who were stooped in the fields, doing difficult manual labor. i went to school with folks like that. i do have firsthand experience. i am not in favor of illegal

immigration. i do not know anyone who is. i wanted to be legal -- i want it to be legal. peoplet want to punish who just broke this law. if we are owing to focus on enforcement, just build a wall, have extra border patrol agents, we are setting ourselves up for another surge of illegal immigration in the future. the weight to fix this permanently is legalize these folks and make it possible for immigrants to come here legally in the future to work and live, just like our ancestors did. host: last call, baltimore, maryland, robert. caller: good morning. i would like you to make a libertarian -- host: what about libertarians?

caller: i would like you to comment on how libertarian views dovetail organization policies.bor first of all, i want to thank you for even using the words immigration reform in context of border security. ofm chris what portion border security tributes to the immigration policy you allude to. and also comment on how this has grown, starting with another conservative trump platform, and that was to get rid of nafta. i would like to ask how you think nafta started to contribute to that boom in illegal immigration. host: only about a minute or two left. the boom in illegal

immigration from mexico began in the early 1980's, more than a decade before nafta went into effect. mexico had a very unstable currency and economic situation then that cause economic collapse that caused a surge of immigrants to the u.s. a lot of them -- there was no legal way for them to come. wast had any effect, it probably to decrease illegal immigration just a little bit. but nafta really is not a contributing factor. over the last 30 years, since the early 1980's, immigration has been a big issue. you have had surges of illegal immigration, had legalization's, had massive increases in border security. many more illegal immigrants -- that is because we have not made it easier to come to this country legally. we have made it more difficult. that is the number one issue we

have to talk about. host: the cato institute is cato.org online. you can follow alex nowrasteh on twitter as well. about 25 minutes for this question. what should be the compromise when it comes to the government shutdown? we want to hear what deal you think could work on both sides. give us a call. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls in a minute. ♪ >> tonight on "the communicators" -- >> what we are talking about here is fiber-optic technology. it is not new.

it has been around for decades. basically, the idea is a very, very thin strand of glass allows, as far as we can tell, unlimited amounts of information to be pumped through it by lasers. it is used around the world come under sees, to carry communications. more and more countries are ensuring every one of their citizens has access to a fiber-optic connection. professor susan crawford talks about her book "fiber." >> there will be no wire better than fiber that will emerge over the next few decades. we are, right now, leaving behind a lot of the country when it comes to great communications capacity. and, as a nation, we are falling behind in a global race to be the place where new ideas come from. >> watch "the communicators" tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2.

the senate confirmation hearings for william barr to be the next attorney general of the united states begin tuesday at 9:30 p.m. eastern. replace jeffted to sessions. william barr is now of counsel of kirkland and ellis and served as the u.s. attorney general for resident geo -- for president george h.w. bush. watch the confirmation hearing live tuesday. "washington journal" continues. host: the next 20 to 25 minutes, we are asking what should be the compromise when it comes to the government shutdown? we want to ask you for a deal you think would work for both sides. the phone lines are yours to do so. we want to hear something you think both sides could accept.

(202) 748-8000 if you are a democrat. (202) 748-8001 you are a republican. independents, (202) 748-8002. having this conversation the morning after a few proposals, including some comments from senator lindsey graham telling fox news sunday that he would support the president, at least temporarily, reopening the shuttered federal government agencies as he negotiates with democrats. lindsey graham saying he would still support a presidential after the talks. instagram saying that i would be open to opening the government for three weeks, but if we cannot open after three weeks, all bets are off. allen in west virginia, democrat, go ahead. caller: some of this is just

pushing experience with my medical background. that is one area i believe already exists agreement, and that is improving the equipment at the border check went for the cars and container ships and arrays -- rays that can determine, scanning through them, including fentanyl. host: so you think that is a place that can start with agreement and build from there? caller: it is a more complicated thing than that. not confident i see a difference between deathtion and -- between by starvation and death at the

hand of gangsters. the thing is you need to do something. around here, we have a withderable problem various kinds of addiction, including multiple things that come through the wall. it is now,w, as there are many words in law that people with english do not trying to have multiple languages makes that a lot worse. neednclusion is that we do to sort out the people who are coming in and all those that need help we need to provide help to enable them to get a path to citizenship, which includes some understanding of the constitution, american history, and the ability to speak english, to sort out the drug dealers and the gangsters and the drugs. host: if you are to get that

path to citizenship and a wooded be worth a couple billion dollars in wall funding? caller: as far as the wall and a barrier, in order to sort them out, you're going to have to do groupsng to prevent mass from coming in, distributing throughout the country, and causing problems. don in iowa. what is a deal you would put on the table? caller: i would like to bring in another element. it is called truth. and i want to talk about the wall. it is knowing what to do when you do it. democrat have come up with something called rhetoric. the definition of rhetoric is the art of speaking convincingly. facts are what is happening,

as far as the wall is concerned. the fact is the wall has worked 90%. and ronald reagan talked about amnesty. he put it on the table. he said that is fine, but we need amnesty. amnesty first. so it was dropped. and we never took care of it. 90% a said, the wall is of fact. in leesburg, virginia, independent. we are talking about what you think is something both sides can agree to. what would you offer? caller: i'm a vet. combatand i are veterans. my country comes first over everything. since 1996, both sides have not been doing a thing about this.

this illegal immigrant line where they can call in, you should have a line for angel parents, people who had landscape companies or drywall companies that lost business to illegal immigrants undercutting everyone. i had to be forced to hire illegals at points to do things, because everyone else was driven out of business. i worked in construction. my wages have been flat forever because i work with people from ethiopia, from south and central america. $3hould be making $2 or more in our -- an hour. have did you say that you hired illegal immigrants? caller: i am forced to have them show up. i do not want to ask for an id.

the media would come down on me for being the bad guy. i've seen them from california to where i live in northern virginia. it is ridiculous. host: what are the illegal immigrants like that you have hired. have you gotten to know them? what are they like? caller: very hard-working. but if you come from where -- i've been down to tijuana. i have seen what these places look like. i've been to other foreign countries. the ground when i come back from deployment. if you do not care about this country, you need to get out more and live life.

with ai and automation coming in -- i grew up in the industrial midwest. what industryw looks like from gary, indiana to detroit and cleveland. a lot of those jobs are going away because of automation. have ford's museum used to a football field of people. now you only have one person. host: in colorado, bronson, democrat. what is a deal using both sides could accept as a shutdown structures on? caller: thank you for putting me on the air. i was born in mexico. thanl i am more american 99% of the country. i served in the vietnam war. whites ran to canada.

i stuck to my guns. , graduated from the university san diego state university. this country would be a better waste if we deport all racists and racist sympathizers. 61.3% are european. blacks.7%, are 17.8% are latinos. why are the whites crying? rav immigration policies -- are a big farce. thank you. host: we are asking in this segment about something you think both sides could accept as day 24 ofns continue,

the government shutdown. some focus in today's papers on various members of congress that could apply the pressure points on ongoing negotiations. story looking at gop members. cory gardner of colorado, susan collins of maine, both running for reelection in states of the president lost in 2016, and lisa murkowski of alaska have called for the immediate end of the partial government shutdown, even without the money that the president has demanded for the wall. noting that senate democrats are seizing the opportunity to pressure republican colleagues. here is a quote from the urban, the number -- from dick durban, the number two democrat, saying it is time for centrists to speak up and tell mitch shut downwe want to

be over. strategy a different by white house officials looking democratictarget freshman house members from districts the president won in 2016. republican officials involved conceded it may be a stretch to break nancy pelosi strong hold on her caucus, but administration officials tell me he will try. he cites a house democratic -- a house democratic aide. look to anxious freshmen become more vocal or public with their desire to reach a compromise and get the government open. they are ready to get to work on the issues they campaigned on. that story in today's axios. back to your calls. florida,jacksonville, republican. what is a deal you think could happen?

would say 72 hours, i would have everyone not a legal citizen report to the post office. --that point, if come here and let us know your status. we would not only level of fine, we would put them out the country -- host: is this a deal both sides could agree to? caller: i think that is a compromise. a little money for the --l and also the law is you are in the country illegally. host: dennis in south portland, maine, independent. what is a compromise in your mind? caller: thanks for taking my call. i do not know how to do this shutdown.

i could give you the perfect solution for all the future shutdowns. 2,m watching c-span 1 and watching the appropriations. i've done it since i retired. it seems one of the first things past is the salaries for the senators, the house of representatives, and their staff. here is the ticket. from now on, they ought to pass a law that senators and house of representatives got to pass everything in front of the government -- to fund the full government, and once that is done, appropriate the money for their salaries. i bet you there would be no more shut downs, nor would there be any more continuing resolutions. that is the smartest thing that could be done. the senators and representatives do not have what it takes to do something like that. host: so the legislative branch appropriations bill is where

funding for the house and senate and all of the agencies of congress come from. that is one of the few appropriations bills that was able to pass for full fiscal 2000 19 funding before the shutdown. you are saying every appropriations cycle make that appropriations bill automatically the last one to the passed? caller: that is correct. watch how fast they fund the government. in ohio, democrat. go ahead. caller: i do not think there should be any compromise whatsoever to help this russian stooge in his beliefs. he has been that way since even the 60's. my wife's sister went to school of him for a short period time he was allowed to go to palm beach county schools. it is just an example of money

talks and poop walks. he is taking the whole world down, not just this country. he has never had an employee that was legal at any of his golf courses. then he complains it is an extension of the visas. no wonder he is extending the visa, because that is all he hires. host: we are talking about a compromise to come together. what do you think could happened to end the shutdown? caller: i cannot see any compromise. because if he gets the wall, what is going to be his next agenda? ago, just a few minutes kellyanne conway, counselor to the president, took questions about the shutdown from the driveway of the white house here is what she had to say. [video clip] >> to be clear, if there is no money for the wall, he will not give his approval to reopen the government? wallere is money for the

and barriers. it is the $5.7 billion the house passed or christmas. all the senate has to do is match that. that is such a minuscule, infinitesimal percentage of the overall federal budget. invest in our border security. it is such a small percentage of the overall federal budget. we should look at it that way, too. the president wants all of those items, which of course includes a physical barrier. i would say the 31 democrats or so that represent districts that the president also won in 2016, i would ask a number of them what they think. i've been reading that regional, local press back home, and what they say is quite different from some of the national coverage. they are telling constituents i

am for some sort of barrier. didf they are, why democrats vote for it, then say some of it needs to be renovated? host: just a few minutes left in this segment of the "washington journal." we are asking what would be the best deal to put an end to the shutdown. , what do yousper think? are you with us? caller: yes. host: go ahead. caller: go on the line now? host: go ahead with what you think is the best deal to get both sides to accept. caller: i think they are acting like little kids. line?the -- am i on the line? host: tell you what, we will go

to casey. caller: the whole thing where congress does not get paid -- the average wealth of the senate is $3 million each. million hp they do not care about the pennies they make every year. as far as the proposal, democrats have a proposal. mitch mcconnell did not bring it to the senate, which is a violation of the constitution. his job is to bring bills up. if they pass it, it goes to the president, and then he vetoes it, and then it goes to 2/3. that is the deal. that is what the constitution put forth. he is not doing it. host: how do you think this ends? what is something you think would get it moving in the senate, that would bring the president and democrats to the table? caller: i think once people

stopped going to work and there is some kind of wearable tragedy at the airlines, that might work. of course, everyone will blame both sides. but to hold the country hostage -- there are parts of the wall that are in crumbles and shambles. why not work on fixing the tunnel systems and getting rid of those, having more border security and repairing what is there? when we can fix what is there, we can move forward with other things to stop the border wall. host: that is casey in virginia. you mentioned the wealth of congress. i want to add some numbers. this from rollcall. at theawkins looking wealth of members of congress. the total wealth of all current members of congress -- at least $2.43 billion when the 115th congress began. beyond that, the medium total net worth of today senators and

house members was $511,000 at congress of the 115th come up 16% over the past two years. principle the median net worth of an american household in 2016. rick is in wisconsin, a democrat. go ahead. caller: he wants to build this legacy wall, let him put his name in big gold letters across it and require that he resigns as soon as it assigned. thank you. host: that's rick, the last caller for the center of "washington journal." is our weekly your money segment and we take a look at the $1 billion the federal government spends each year on career and technical education programs.

we're joined by stephen dewitt for that discussion and later, jackie simon of the american federation of government employees will be here to talk about the impact of the ongoing shutdown of the federal workforce. we will be right back. ♪ >> tonight on "the communicators." >> we are talking about fiber-optic technology. it's been around for decades. basically, the idea is a very, very thin strand of glass allows as far as we can tell, unlimited amounts of information to be pumped through it by lasers, it's used around the world undersea security medications and more and more countries are ensuring that everyone of their citizens has access to the fiber-optic connection. crawford-- susan

discusses her book "fiber, the coming tech resolution and why america might miss it." there will be no wire better than fiber is going to emerge and we right now are leaving behind a lot of the country when it comes to bring communications capacity and as a nation, we are falling behind in a global race to be the places where new ideas come from. >> watch "the communicators," at 8:00 eastern on c-span two. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress. the white house. the supreme court. and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country.

c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> "washington journal," continues. this segmentek in of "washington journal," we take a look at how your money is at work in a different federal program and this week, stephen dewitt joins us for a look at the over $1 billion the federal government spends each year on career and technical education programs very explain what that term, career and chemical education means. is this the same as what we used to call vocational school? guest: yes and no. we had some changes. years think back to 100 ago when vocational education started, most of those programs were in very specific trade and individuals would leave high school and go right into the workplace. fast-forward 100 years later, we got many more sectors was certainlyd still have the traditional trades, but they have also changed and evolved as the economy changes.

i would say the thing in common with all of them is they are focused on applied learning, students are not just sitting in a classroom listening to a teacher, they are actually going through the motions of how you would apply that education in a workspace. student think of it almost is a lab in many cases, they are working in teams and they are really focused on employability skills as well. the skills like critical thinking and making sure we get to work on time. the numbers in terms of students in career and technical education? are they mostly still high school students? guest: it is split. we have students who are in secondary school and post secondary arrows of community and technical colleges and even for your colleges in some cases, in the secondary programs, the delivery could be the right conference of your high school don't the street, you could also be through an area of career tech school.

it really depends on the state in terms of how they deliver that. and we have adult folks who are learning sometimes in the same environment of students at the secondary level. in the post secondary level, wasn't the point of these programs to prepare students for the workforce so you just give the cost of going to college and go right into making money? guest: originally, yes. around the numbers are 60% to 70% of folks will need some type of post secondary education. we are all going to have to continue to come back to post secondary as well to update our skills. if you think about the recession of a few years ago, we had people who were coming back to learn new skills to get into new employment sectors so education isn't just a one-stop center, i think it's an evolving piece that everyone needs. they are going to have to continue to come back to throughout their lives. this on thek about your money segment, a special line for those who have attended

vocational or technical schools, call (202) 748-8002. we would like to hear about your experiences and what federal programs you may have used. otherwise regionally, if you are in easter or central time zones, call (202) 748-8000, about north pacific, call (202) 748-8001. stephen dewitt is deputy director association for career and chemical education. over $1 billion the year goes to these kinds of programs, federal dollars. how is that distributed and where? it's about 1.3 billion dollars, we had some slight increases. the money goes to states and states determine the split between secondary and postsecondary more or less. that money is distributed to almost every school in the nation. if you have a high school in your community, they are most likely having career and technical education programs. we also have some money at the federal level reserve for

assessment of the system and studies and things of that nature. host: we said this was a non-shutdown segments, but i should ask, have these programs been impacted by the government shutdown? guest: good question. i don't think so, i think our education budget and the department of education has passed and approved and things are running and we expect all of the money to be delivered on time. that's only recently heard from the office of career tech an adult. host: what is the association for career and technical education? guest: we are a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit, we work on advocacy around career and technical education we also work to focus on professional development for members who are teachers, the administrators, the guidance and career development professionals delivering programs at the local level. host: for students, what kind of worker are they most likely going into these days? what is the biggest cte program? guest: good question.

it's really diverse, as i mentioned earlier. some of the big areas, if you think about i.t., many students are going through those types of courses and if it's not an i.t. program specifically, it's going to be integrated into their programming. if you think about out of a, cars now have more than a few computers in them. agriculture and i are science has been a big area. another one i was looking this morning that surprised me was the business area. that has always been a strong area. host: what has been on the decline in recent years? guest: probably some of the specific courses like which have served their purpose, everybody knows how to keyboard now because they have computers in front of them. that's one specifically that comes to mind. it's a good question as you think about the evolution of the technology isy, so integrated into everything.

everyone needs to understand computers, understand i.t. and they also have a have a foundation academics and all of our programs need to be tied to rigorous academics as well. host: what about the end earnings results for the students? students andcation of making less over the lifetime than for your college graduates? guest: it depends on the field you are in. degree cases, a two year or certification may earn you more money than a four-year degree earner. it really depends on the specific field you are in. to hit againstnt academics or four year against two-year. this really is finding the right next and the pathway is a student as you are able to pursue the types of occupations and the career that you want. host: when it comes to federal dollars in support that they have been pitted against each other?

guest: i don't know that congress has done that or the presidency, but i definitely think it is done and we get a lot of media calls that ask us either/or. i've never been asked that on the hill by the staff that we work with. i think the underlying theme that is out there. host: career and technical education is the topic of your money segment. over $1 billion a year from the federal government for those programs and a big new law being implement later this year. we talk about it was stephen dewitt of the association for career and technical education. we want to take your calls and hear from you, especially if you attended one of these programs. if you participated in a training program or vocational schools, call (202) 748-8002 is the number. we start with andrew from fall river, massachusetts. caller: yeah, my name is andrew. in a strict roman

catholic school because i have disabilities. i'm severely dyslexic and autistic. front of my face don't work. i went to vocational schools after i got out of high school. i went to cooking, i went to welding, i went to boiler stuff. i understood it, but once you put papers in front of my face, they meant nothing to me. the vocational idea is a good , you but i think people like whener, go into you start school, like kids you have problems when they are five learning, that you start them on something they are interested in clickocation that will with them to where they will be programset into those

so they will be able to get a degree. and stuff like that. a guy who could tear apart a car and do anything electrical in the world, and he is fantastic at it, but he is just like me when it comes to reading the words and looking at papers, it's like a chinese puzzle. host: thank you. great point to bring up, this education often engages students in keeps many students in school. i think that we really are focused on that individual. you mentioned to students with disabilities, as part of the population that we serve. we really want to find the career pathway that speaks to the individual. we want to have more transparency also in the types of careers occupations that are available so students can choose that path themselves. host: some of the numbers from the department of education on career and technical education , somets in high school

8,000,200 99,000 overall aroma country but i want to focus on the gender, formally 470,000 are male, 3,000,300 820,000 are female. can you talk about the changes in recent decades on men or women are getting involved in these programs? i should have looked at the stats before, but is not uncommon for women to be surging forward in all these areas of education. i think that is under we want to keep our eye on, making sure we are serving men and women. women are doing great in terms of the performance in these courses, they are outpacing men slightly and a lot of them. also making sure that we have access for underserved populations and i know we are going to get into the new acts later of the focus on disaggregation of data and making sure that we really know how each population is performing is an important aspect of the new law as well.

host: alex is in california. good morning. -- i'm i had a question a student of the polytechnic school and i was funded through federal funding and state funding. withust concerns everything that's going on with the president and i come from a family of teachers and what's going to happen in how we are going to get this done and why there is an protocol that we have for these kinds of situations, these dilemmas, i think we should, if i had to say something. i think we should have something else, something to get his humpthe-top -- over this . i'm very anxious about this i just want your feedback. host: we haven't talked about the government shutdown not

impacting cd funding programs that you did mention we talked about the big new law being implement to this year, is it going to impact the implementation of that law and what is that long going to do? does not have huge dramatic changes, but there are some changes. certainly a focus on what we call the program of study, which is basically the set of courses that students take, that's going to be maintained and strengthened, making sure that to rigorousies academics, that you are in a credential whether that is the certification or degree. there are some real meaningful goals obtained by students. i will also say the new law i think strengthens the connection with business and industry. we've always been connected to employers and they were a big part of the discussion as the law was being debated this time. the new local needs assessment , it's called the needs -- i'm playing on the term but each

program has to develop a way to measure their progress and that's going to be checked every two years. host: is this each program in every high school and vocational college that does this or is this a state-by-state? guest: each program of the local level and they have to bring in stakeholders including business and industry, including people -- students with disabilities earlier, although special populations that are making of the community as well, to really weigh in on what the program needs to look like. most of our programs align to regional employment goals as well. people have regional strategies for those. we want to make sure these programs are aligned us move forward. host: is that tied to federal reimbursement actually placing a student in a job at the end of one of these training programs? guest: no. the one thing that is different we arehe perkins act --

using the term perkins five, because it's been that in recent iterations. the new name is the 21st century improvement act. strengthening career and technical obligations. most of the community is referring to is the perkins five. i got a result question, it was about -- host: in terms of time results and job placement of federal funding. guest: these are really education programs where we are teaching groups of students as opposed to training the individual, you have training funding the follows that individual. host: gabriel in maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. collegeo a community and a four years and a vocational, which was part of a community college. i now have a degree in radiologic technology and its

from the four-year. the radiologic technology enabled me to get work and has supported me as i save enough money to go back to school for more experienced. i have seen a lot of people go straight to four-year and dropouts, because it's too much for them. they go to community college's first is best. and get you save money you into the experience and lets you move on without getting overloaded. if the federale government also offer grants for research, secondary the stuff that we've already discovered in four-year colleges, but allow two-year colleges to run the experiment again and double check on them. host: gabriel, thank you bring up the issues. steve dewitt. guest: we definitely need more research to support programs and

we would also like to see the federal government open up resources for individuals of the higher-end level. they may be attending part-time programs that don't always have the same access to pell grant's and other funding that for your students do. i think the point you made in the beginning about allowing him to pay for courses later to become a -- radiology technician is a terrific point. we have lots of students that will money as they are going through high school and post secondary that they can then spend for additional postsecondary education and it's because of the training and the education they received in their career tech courses. host: 10 minutes left with steve dewitt, if you purchase been in one of these vocational schools, one of these training programs that we're talking about, call (202) 748-8002 is the number. otherwise, the phone legislative regionally. joseph is in woodstock, illinois. good morning.

caller: hello? host: go ahead, joseph. caller: i also attended a community college and it was vocational in nature. me of the things that bugged was her internship wasn't done until the very end of it and now i am at a four-year and it is kind of the same thing. wish they would do internships or job shadowing or something like that more towards the beginning of the program so that people know what they are getting into. in addition to that, i wish they would compile better data as far as how many people in a degree get the job or remain employed in that five years down the road. what are the earnings, etc. i felt like with when i was into, there were some kind of

misleading going on. thank you. host: what do you do now? caller: i'm a student at the university of illinois. after getting my ba in political science, that is my best host: why did you decide to go back? caller: i decided to go back because first of all, the field i was in before wasn't panning out and i don't know, just the job for unskilled/low skilled entry-level person wasn't -- there were some factory jobs or retail, but nothing great. plus i think having a four-year degree in general looks good in a resume. host: thanks for sharing your story. steve dewitt guest:. i agree with him that we need more opportunities for

work-based learning and that is really what i think he was talking about when he said internships. second can take the form of apprenticeships or the form of job shadowing in some cases. some of our secondary institutions actually do a good up of setting pseudo-businesses are actual businesses in their schools and programs and that does provide some of that. there's a discussion right now about how we provide more youth apprenticeship, how we provide more work-based learning opportunities to individuals at both the secondary and post secondary levels. the point about data, i completely agree. one of the good news points right now is that the institute of education sciences has just funded something called the ct network that will be working on more data and research around career and technical education, something we desperately need. host: your association also represent the career and technical education teachers. this from the pew research

center, one of their stories from 2017, noting that back then, two thirds of states were reporting a shortage in cte teachers in at least one specialty. is that still happening? guest: it is. we talk so much about the skills gap that industry is facing, but we are facing our own skill gap as well. because thes, it's programs of the higher education level have gone away. in many states, they don't have a program that teaches teachers and career tech ed. in some cases, it's the fact that the money issue. always get paid a lot and it's not happening in every single industry. a nurse will get paid much more in the nursing industry as opposed to coming into the classroom. we are dependent upon people who are either retiring or really want to give back after they

have been in the workplace. is waiting in, west virginia. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm a believer in trade school for the student in high school who does not know what they want to do. in southern west virginia, i synnex wereo get teasing putting gutters on and talk to other people who need training and education in the trades like carpenters, masonry work and i believe that they make just as much money with adequate training either in the union sponsored trade school, where they do get hands-on and i believe that they make probably more money than some four-year students. i will go back to my college education in my field, and we

were required to have a summer experience in our field to see if we really liked it. schoolse in the trade because we do need them. when the people who are in plumbing, masonry work, and the other trades that help build need and buildings, we do them. host: thank you for the call. guest: i agree. as we mentioned earlier, some field you do for can earn more than if you go through a four-year college -- i hate to use the term track. up new law is now opening career and technical education funding beyond seventh-grade. that, state chooses to do they might decide to spend money earlier on career development and exploration, which is very important and links to these programs. we really need students earlier

on, even in elementary school, started to talk about what they want to do and then, as they move up in the education system, getting more specialized with the instruction they received. the bar right now is seventh grader higher? host: in the new law -- guest: in the new law, you can use funding beyond seventh-grade. host: what is the thinking that students know in elementary school? mostly thinking about earlier middle school grades were you want to develop a program that aligns with high school programs later on and we have seen that happen in some areas. as you are getting students exposure in middle school to what options they have in high school, what career options they have after that, they're going to be more likely to know what they want to do and choose the courses that are going to be more meaningful in high school. i wonder what pushback you have gotten from four-year

colleges and the folks who support them if you are looking to get children below seventh-grade out of the four-year college track? guest: i don't know that is necessarily out of the four-year college track. . hate this either/or i think if we think about education, the individual earlier said he earned money to then go back to for your later. i think it's more of a mix of the type of programs you need for your entire career, as opposed to one occupational one track. but it's definitely less expensive to go to a community or technical college as opposed to a four-year college in most cases. those are factors that students are considering also. host: in florida, rick, good morning. caller: hello. host: go ahead. caller: i went to a vocational school in paterson, new jersey. school go to a middle

and then going into high school, many of my friends went to a regular high school. i went to a vocational high school where the first year, you have six weeks of six different trades. , year, youfourth would decide what to do, what trade. carpenter, electrician, machinist, and you go on from there. it was nothing funded by the government, everything was paid by the city. and then many of my friends wound up going to college and it cost a fortune. the many of these tradespeople commonly wind up making many times more money than some of these college students. i hear throughout the whole country that there is no vocational schools, even though i was brought up in new jersey. each state is different.

but it's very important and for a lot of people that are not savvy as far as going to college, but they mechanically are inclined and they make a good living and it will never be out of work. host: thanks for telling us about it. you are making very good points i think there are a lot of careers you can go to pay them not only a and whatrning wage those pathways look like along the way. i'm not blaming career counselors, we need support for them and help in distributing information because there's not enough information about these courses. on the teacher shortage

you brought up earlier, is there anything in that new strengthening career and technical education act is going to be implement of this year try to address that shortage? host: the law does allow for spending on professional development, so that helps. we are also hopeful of the higher education act will specifically include career and technical education as well. ast: steve dewitt's deputy second -- deputy executive the career and technical education. we're joined by jackie simon of the american federation for government employees to talk about the ongoing government shutdown impact on federal employees. we'll be right back. ♪ >> tonight on the "community."

communicators." hasiber-optic technology been around for decades, it's a very, very thin strand of class that allows unlimited information to be pumped through to carryers communication. more and more countries are ensuring that everyone of their citizens has access to the fiber-optic connection. author and harvard law professor susan crawford discusses her book "fiber, the coming tech revolution and why america might miss it. " >> there will be no wire that will emerge better than fiber. and we are right now leaving behind a lot of the country when it comes to great communications capacity and as a nation, we are falling behind in the global race to be the places where new ideas come from.

>> watch "the communicators," tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. the senate conversation hearings for william barr to be the next attorney general of united date begin tuesday at 9:30 a.m. eastern. trumpember, president nominated mr. bard to replace jeff sessions, who helped position for over year and a half since the beginning of the trump administration. so that the law firm of kirk and allison served as the u.s. attorney general for george h.w. bush. watch the confirmation process for william barr live tuesday at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span three. continues. journal," here andque simon is she serves as policy director of the american federation of government employees, the largest federal employee union in the country. did you ever think this would go 24 days?

guest: it was my worst fear. that yes, i am surprised it has gone this long. host: how does this end? guest: i have no idea how long it will go. beiously, there does seem to some good possibilities for a successful resolution to all of this if senator mcconnell allows a vote in the senate of the house passed bills. when that will happen, i don't know. host: do you think that is the most likely path? what are you hearing for members of congress? guest: our members are calling their senators and urging them to urge senator mcconnell to thew a vote on more or less exact same bill that passed the senate unanimously on december 19. host: until the into the program

this morning, especially for federal employees, call (202) 748-8000. all others, call (202) 748-8001. jacque simon is with the largest federal employee union. should the federal government expect to lose employees when this is all said and done? guest: that depends on how long this thing last. there are some misconceptions salary and wages the federal employees earn and the members of our union are very modestly paid. they are dependent on trepidation security officers. they started $28,000 a year and they take a less than $500 a week. economic is your resources, you can't go very long without a paycheck. will verypeople who

committed, they take it very seriously, but they can't do it for free. talk about the call outs. could that be used as a tactic to put pressure on ending the shutdown? guest: callouts? host: the tsa callouts? they are calling out sick? guest: that story has been exaggerated somewhat great is not condoned by our union and it is not endorsed by our union and there is no sick leave during the four low. they can't even really take sick leave. you also have to include the fact that there is a lot of cold in theiroing around job exposes them to the general public every day in a very intimate way. as al qaeda factors that could explain that. we are not encouraging people not to go to work who have been directed to go to work.

we are telling our members absolutely, if you have received notice from your agency telling ,ou you are required to work that your job has been designated accepted, then you should absolutely go to work. host: can you quit if your team to the fed -- an essential employee? guest: you can always quit by not showing up, you are absent without leave and ultimately, if you are absent without leave and subsequently when the government reopens, you inform the employer you weren't just absence, he resigned, yeah, you can quit. host: is there any penalty you could face if you do that at a time when you are deemed essential? guest: technically, yes. mostct, we expect at least supervisors and managers to understand when you are in a non-pay status, you are allowed to use sick leave. but if you are genuinely ill and , theynot come to work

would be very unlikely to impose discipline on the employee. of course, we would represent them because we would not want anyone to face any harmful consequences, any disciplinary use offor a legitimate sick leave. host: how many federal employees do represent? 700,000.,000 -- guest: host: how many are directly affected? guest: about 250,000 or so. area?mostly in the d.c. guest: mostly outside the d.c. area. we represent fema workers and margaret homeland security, or control, ice, tsa at airports across the country, park --vice, forest service, hide hud, we are dispersed

everywhere. host: if you're a federal employee and wanted tell us about your situation, call (202) 748-8000. all others, call (202) 748-8001. you are suing the federal government right now over the shutdown. on what grounds? of theit's a violation fair labor standards act, it's a law that guarantees a worker certain protections and one of them probably most famous is the minimum wage. employer in the united states has to pay a worker at least the federal minimum, $7.25 an hour, higher in some places. after an excess of 40 hours a week for some employees, you are entitled to time and a half for overtime. when the government is requiring people to work and paying them nothing, that andates minimum wage laws other wage and hour laws.

not the first shutdown and not the history -- not the first time you have sued. i'm not an attorney, so it was say too much, but we sued successfully in 2013. host: what to do when? -- what did you win? guest: back pain. we are confident of success. host: back pay at this one is pretty certain. guest: congress has passed legislation. host: what are you suing for? host: there is damage is 1 -- guest: there is damage is when he failed to pay online. in greene co. springs, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to ask -- i am for the wall and i'm for trump 100%. he is not kicking the can down

the road, he wants to fix this problem. sue the is, if we can state's for these sanctuary cities, when you go to bed at your head downay on the pillow because you lost a loved one that should not have been in this country, why can't we do something about that? , sanctuariesork for all. california. that is not fair. that is just not fair to us. the democrats do not want to fix this problem. i think they are getting money cartels or -- doesn't make any sense. why would they want to fix this problem? i'm not sure i agree with all the premises of the question but i do think democrats and republicans care a lot about border security and

the safety and security of our country. now wherek right there is disagreement is both means and ends. i think the idea of shutting down the government in order to force a particular solution about this issue is one thing debate in a reasoned the congress of the united states with the white house is another. we certainly have very strong support within our union for border security. we represent border patrol agent's and we represent ice agents. they do the actual work of providing for security at the border. about thaty much issue, but we want our members to be paid for the work they do. host: i know you have met with speaker pelosi and minority leader chuck schumer. have you actually met with president trump? guest: no, we have not.

not at the national level. president recently sent president trump a letter asking for a resolution of this impasse. senatehim to allow the -- to instruct senator mcconnell, who seems to be taking his cues from the onsident, to allow a vote the house passed appropriation bill and get the government back open again and then proceed with debate over border security. host: did you get any response to that letter? host: -- guest: no. host: any plans to meet with anyone else at the white house? guest: yes. our members are calling their congressional representatives and senators asking for a quick resolution of this impasse.

we're focusing mostly right now on the senate, asking the senate to take up the house passed appropriation package and the funding measure for the part of homeland security immediately and reopen the government. jacque simon with us for another 15 minutes, talking about the story we have been talking about for over three weeks now, the 24 of the ongoing government shutdown, the special line for federal employees, call (202) 748-8000. all others, call (202) 748-8001. margie is in meadville, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to make a comment to the young lady. the whole first hour of c-span this morning, i got the impression that the general public was very blasé, their ,ttitude had a little hostility these jobs are good jobs with good benefits and people think

they should have put something aside because this is not the first shutdown. is, do yourestion people pay union dues and are you avoiding those union dues for this time, or are you helping your people monetarily? that would be my question. thank you. guest: thank you for calling me a young lady. dues when receiving our members are not being paid. we don't have the resources to ,elp our members financially some unions have a strike funds, but since federal employees are barred by law from ever going on strike, and of course, we would never call a strike, we don't have those kind of resources to help people out. think none of our members who are being affected

by the shutdown have savings. some do. what we hear from a lot of people is they had enough but maybeo make it through one missed paycheck. and now, things are getting really dicey. and the timing could not be worse. january is a particularly bad month financially for a lot of people. you have all the bills coming in from christmas and if you have any kind of medical appointments or prescription drug costs or anything like that, this is the beginning of the year, you have there he high deductibles you have to pay. copayments, federal employees in recent years have actually been healthout of traditional insurance plans, so many of them have a high deductible plans they are having to pay out-of-pocket to go to the doctor, to go to the hospital, to get her medicines.

it's really hitting people very our members,mber, there are some well-paid federal employees that are members are the rank-and-file, and very modestly paid people. these are people who are making $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 a year. in most parts of the country, your middle class at that level. but you don't really have a lot of cushion after you have paid your taxes, you health insurance, your 401(k), your childcare, your rents, your car payments, maybe a student loan payments. there's not much left over. think -- host: do you think federal government employees should reconsider the idea of a shutdown fund? goal of anynot the organization to create a fund for irresponsible politicians. this is not a cost the rest of

us should have to bear. this is very serious business. this is the government of the united states of america, it needs to operate in a more reasonable and responsible fashion. frank is an big rock, tennessee. good morning. caller: first of all, i'd like to say god bless all of those people who are having to put up with this. i think they should be paid some kind of interest plus any penalties incurred by their bills. i feel for them. trumpalso stand behind and the wall. the democrats need to do their job. they are going on vacation now down the philippines. they don't care about this country. they need to come to the table and work for this country. guest: i don't know -- i would be very reluctant to say that either democrats or republicans

failed to care about this country. if anyon't know democrats or republicans are currently on vacation. at least from what i have read the newspaper, it is president trump who has got enough and walked out of the room in the context of efforts to negotiate and region into this impasse. there certainly are republicans who have come forward and said they were willing to have a vote on the house passed appropriation bills and that is clearly the pathway forward. question theling get started out as you is to blame. you're putting the blame squarely on president trump and republicans in congress are in -- in congress. want to assign blame one way or another but it does seem to be an absolute refusal on the part of o'connell to allow the senate to vote on the house passed appropriation

bills. fits, that seems to be where the solution lies and if he continues to refuse to allow a vote, then he has got responsibility for that refusal. host: "washington journal," poll, 53% ofhis respondents to that poll blame president trump and republicans in congress for the shutdown, 29% democrats in congress, 13% blaming both equally. constance is a retired federal worker in virginia, good morning. caller: good morning. everybody is trying to be so politically correct. but if mitch mcconnell would bring that bill back to the floor, the ones that they themselves passed in december and have the house vote on it, it would pass. mitch mcconnell is the one that is holding up this thing, along

with he says he's going to bring it back because the president will veto it. that's all besides the point, president trump did not put mitch mcconnell in office, people did. and he should be doing what is right, right now. and i call on mitch mcconnell and all the republicans, senate and the house, to do their jobs as the lady just said. yes, they should do their jobs. nobody should be held hostage ,ecause of their shenanigans they have the lowest rating ever, the house and the senate and the president and all the republicans held the house for two years. host: what federal agency did you work in? caller: transportation. host: did you ever go through a shutdown? caller: yes, i did. host: how did you deal with it?

caller: i was in supervision at the time and i was given a package two weeks before the shutdown and i was to put the employees out. which is what i did. it means that i went around to stations that employees were in job,ut them out of their but they blamed it on the employees, but it was not their fault. the administration actually put the employees out. and called a strike. this was in new york city. jacque simon. you make a lot of very good points, particularly the fact that the senate voted isnimously on a bill that virtually identical to the one that mitch mcconnell refuses to allow a vote on now read the new congress new year, the 160th congress and there are a few new senators, but if they vote the way they voted on december 19,

there is enough support to override any kind of veto. simplereally a fairly and straightforward path out of this mess. we were just on the verge of avoiding a shutdown in late december when the president responding to some critics on cable news decided to move the goalposts and there was a bill he was ready to sign and then he decided he would not sign it. and you described him as a clear way out of this and it is for mitch mcconnell to allow a vote. scott, i federal worker. go ahead. i would like to provide my opinion on the blame. first of all, it's not one party. it's all the politicians are to blame. there is that they are and voted

in the public office to negotiate on behalf of the constituents. they are not doing that. present obama ran and one office based on change. also got intop office based on change. america wants change. they want politicians that will provide them the information they needed. another thing, congress, they failed their job with three continuing resolutions. the did not fund the government when they should have read october is a new fiscal year and congress didn't do it then. they weren't negotiating back then. they are failing. another point i would like to mention is federal employees, we can file for unemployment of we so need to. because we are in a furlough status. host: is that some thing you are recommending employees do? yes, we are. we are recommending unemployment eligibility varies by state.

we are absolutely recommending that furloughed employees applied with unemployment benefits in the state that helps you keep the audience together. this thing is over and you get back pay, your to refund many of the unemployment benefits he received. absolutely, you should get unemployment insurance benefits if you're able. house advisor kevin hassett had an email -- heading -- had a interview over the weekend they talked about furloughs and the impact on federal employees. >> workers are furloughed. they are not allowed to go to work. ends, they goown back to work and get back pay. a shoot -- a huge share of government workers that are going to take vacation days and then we have a shutdown, so they

can't do work and so then they have the vacation, but they don't have to use their vacation days. come back and get back pay and in some sense, they are better off. guest: that is absolutely absurd statement. federal employees are not better off as a result of the shutdown. are are hurting, they facing very serious financial consequences. some even will have their security clearances placed in jeopardy when they fall behind on their bills. it's one of the first things that put the security clearance and ultimately a federal job in jeopardy is falling behind on your bills. people have to pay late fees, they may lose their day care slots, they may even lose their homes if god for bid they were already behind in their payments. this is unequivocally, unambiguously bad for federal employees. that's why the overwhelming majority almost the complete

majority want this thing to end right away. minutes on day 24 of the government shutdown and take a few more calls with jacque , in idaho falls, idaho, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you for taking my call. that a lot of people just don't understand anything. workers never hold people as hostages. is in the government president or congress, republicans and senate republicans, if they don't have no concern about people and workers, they can do anything. just like that tax cut they gave , they could've

thought about the wall then. use that money to pay for the wall. could just come out and tell the american people you know what, i want to build a wall and i want you guys to pay for. just be honest with the people. and then they will go from there. host: jacque simon. right.you are there were many opportunities of the last two years when the republicans controlled both the house and the senate and obviously the white house when they could have passed funding for this particular elements of border security, this notion of a wall. and they did not. i think your characterization of the currenti think your charactf the current situation as holding federal employees hostage, we've used the word extortion, we've used the words ponds, hostage situation, any of those things i think are good descriptions of what's going on. and it is shameful.

host: lee is in south portland, maine. caller: this is lee, good morning to you. what i wanted to say is mitch mcconnell will not bring this bill of to be voted on because his wife works for donald trump. she is secretary of transportation. to me, that is a conflict of interest. no wife many of those senators has anything to do with passing laws should be working for the president. it is definitely a conflict of interest. don't you think that's the reason why mitch mcconnell will not bring those bills up for vote? that: i don't agree spouses can't work for the same employer or the involved the same kind of issues. obviously, the secretary of transportation has her own interests and professional responsibilities as is mitch mcconnell.

there's lots of speculation as to why mitch mcconnell has them so reluctant, shall we say, to allow a vote and you know, your ieory could be true, but certainly don't think it would be fair to bar the south the politicians or political appointees from any particular occupation. plan for thees aig government shutdown? guest: we have been having her tests at federal installations and offices all of the country and that senators offices. we've encouraged members to flood senate offices with uncles, to ask friends and family members to put as much pressure as they possibly can on senators to get a vote on the house passed appropriation bill.

heavy track how many calls that generated? guest: thousands but i cannot tell you the number. hopefully those numbers will grow a lot in the coming days. host: one more federal worker waiting to chat. marie in wisconsin. caller: i have been coming in a little bit later. one thing i have not heard mentioned, what are other for us employees saying in our household we feel it we have a lot of labels put on us ,hat people out in the media they want to say if you feel this way your you can or democrat. you don't even ask our opinion .r that of how we feel we just get stuck with a lot of labels. i'm wondering how many other people you've spoken with feel almost ostracized by the general

public. guest: thanks for that comment. i think you raise an important point. federal employees are apolitical when they are doing their jobs. another issue that i think maybe you are getting at is the labels essential and inessential. they aren't even the labels the federal agencies use. the law is what the side who is required to work during the shutdown and who is locked out and prevented from doing their job and it has to do with the protection of life, the protection of property and then there is discretion on the part of politicians to decide who else, politicians who run the agencies, who else gets to come to work and who is locked out. people who are locked out are not inessential. they do important work and should be respected and appreciated for it and we should

get rid of the labels of essential and inessential because every federal employee is doing an important job that is essential. host: jackie simon. always appreciate your time. that's going to do it for today journal." we will be back at 7:00 a.m. eastern. have a great monday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, >> president trump traveling to new orleans this morning. speaking at the farm bureau's national convention. the president spoke with reporters for about 10 minutes.