watch as president trump delivers his state of the union address alive from the house chamber beginning at 9:00 p.m. c-span.on followed by the democratic response by former georgia gubernatorial candidate stacy abrams. the state of the union, live tuesday on c-span, c-span.org, or listen with the free c-span radio app. friday onlive on c-span2, a discussion on puerto rico's economy and energy infrastructure needs. more than a year after hurricane maria hit the island. followed by pentagon officials discussing missile defense strategy. then on c-span2, health and human services secretary alex is our speaks to the bipartisan policy center about the trump administration's health care priorities. coming up on today's washington journal, a look at efforts to strengthen election security in response to threats from russia, with a georgetown university law

school professor. and later, from the cato institute, a guest to discuss e-verify and its impact on u.s. immigration policy. ♪ trump yesterday said the country has gained 500 thousand manufacturing jobs during his administration. we want your thoughts on this -- what is it like where you live? our manufacturing jobs coming back? if you live in the rust belt section of the country, (202) 748-8000. if you are a manufacturing worker, (202) 748-8001. all others, (202) 748-8002. you can join us on twitter or facebook.com/c-span. we will get to your calls in a minute.

the president yesterday in the oval office, here is what he had to say. >> the eight years before this office, we lost nearly 200,000 manufacturing jobs. they were leaving. people were talking about, you need a magic wand to bring them back. the previous administration said we needed a magic wand, manufacturing jobs are over. that was a little bit discouraging. regained election, more than 500,000 jobs and soon it will be 700,000 jobs, all in the manufacturing world, which is a beautiful world and very important. last year, we saw the biggest increase in manufacturing employment and more than 20 years. early in my presidency, i issued an executive order directing the present -- the federal hirenment to buy and

american. that sounds appropriate. remember the old days? it was almost the opposite, where are they coming from? we have increased reliance on american-made goods vary substantially. federal agencies are spending an additional $24 billion on american-made products instead of going to other countries. federal spending on foreign goods is the lowest in more than 10 years. it is going down substantially. bydon't get treated great many countries in terms of our trade deals, and that is changing rapidly. we are now looking out a little bit for ourselves and it is time. host: president trump talking about his executive order that he signed.

roll calls headline -- trump americanerica's buy rule. are you seeing the numbers the president is talking about where you live? are the manufacturing jobs coming back? the line is divided by those that live in the rust belt, manufacturing workers, and all others. roll call notes in their article , a quote from peter navarro -- "if an agency like the department of transportation spends money directly on the construction of a road or piece of infrastructure, buy american comes into play. --an agency provides support in direct support through federal financial assistance, a apply.may not

thatiew of projects reviewed federal financing in fiscal 2016 found that buy american requirements do not -- a to 200 to 265 possible gap. recently on the program, we had scott hall, president of the american alliance for manufacturing. here is what he said about the future of many factoring jobs. -- manufacturing jobs. >> they bore a disproportionate share of the pain over the last decades. trade policy is one reason. skewing the balance between capital and labor made a big difference as well. the fact that we almost uniquely among industrialized democracies , have a terrible safety net for

people who lose their jobs or in transition. we lost one out of every three manufacturing jobs in the first decade of this century. that is almost unimaginable, that kind of devastation. it was worse than during the great depression for manufacturing. so i think the question is, is that the fate we are resigned to or do we have a different future? president trump is nostalgic. we are going to bring back these jobs in steel and coal. booster,nufacturing and i do not think that is entirely possible, to bring back the manufacturing sector like in the 1950's and 1960's. that does not mean we cannot have a 21st century manufacturing sector where we are the world's leaders in vetting things like the iphone,

but also making it here, or vehicles vehicles and other things with respect to clean energy. we should be on the cutting edge. creating cigarettes andey

different things like that. they cut all of that out. plans ongetting the cigarettes and all this stuff now. all these jobs are going out. i have relatives all over in tennessee and the manufacturing jobs are gone. obama built it back up and now we are back down over so many, 17 million jobs are gone. it is not even working. host: did your friends and family lose these jobs in the last two years or before? caller: in two to three years. host: what are they doing? caller: at different jobs, cutting yards and things like

that. a lot of stores when out of business. they are cutting yards, trying to make a living. much was one friend or relative making versus what they are making now? myler: there was a job cousin was making over $25 an hour. now he is just getting whatever he can get. they laid him off. host: nick is in tennessee, a manufacturing worker. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what do you do? forer: i previously worked lear corporation but we lost a lot of work to mexico under the previous president. president, we got osh has come- osh c

to moorestown. in 2020, we have a swedish bus company coming bring a close to 600 jobs. they are all high-paying jobs. weldertly got hired as a at over $20 an hour. host: is that high for you? caller: when i worked at leader, , iade good money -- lear made good money but not that kind of money. the cost of living is fairly low so that is pretty good money. osh gosh i caution -- say it was because of the policy? why did they come to moorestown? caller: that, i'm not sure. osh gosh is building the new light ability vehicle here which

gosh,ere building in osh wisconsin. they relocated here to moorestown. they did not lay off any at their old plant by doing that. they relocated the people to different things they had coming in or whatever. they did not lay off to move here. it is a wonderful company. out,s really helped because we have a thing called two tier. a lot of the higher paying manufacturing places are going to two-tier which you could be there for 20 years making $18 an hour and under the two-tier program, another person will come in, a younger person will ,ome in under the two-tier deal

doing the same job is that person. he is tier one, the new guy is tier two. he is doing the exact same job making $10 an hour. gosh and the swedish company, from what we have been told, they will not do the two-tier. host: that is something that is prevalent in the manufacturing sector? caller: yes, around here it is. said, i was making good they laidlear, but off over three quarters of the plant couple years back because they sent a lot of their stuff to mexico. after it got down there, i am not saying this disrespect or anything, but they could not run the equipment we sent down. it ended up being sent back to us. i am not saying they are incompetent or anything, but

they could not run it like we did. they ended up sending it back and that is when they started the two-tier stuff. they sent our work back to us, yet put us under two-tier. new people coming in have a chance. you cannot come in and work under $10 an hour when the same guy next to you is making $18 an hour. host: let's go to chicago, david. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i work in high-tech. i know the president -- i try to work. i have not worked in more than a year and a half because of the cheap labor dumping. what the president is trying to do, the latest issue just north of the illinois border as the foxtrot plants. --y are bringing high-tech

instead of bringing high-tech manufacturing, they are bringing more like r&d. connecticut has given $10 billion to one of the biggest indian offshore and companies to set up jobs that are not promised to go to american citizens. know,is, just to let you illinois is one of the top states for people leaving the state. maintenancen a jobs like they did in north dakota, where americans will begin to you high-paying jobs, you will see people continually leave california and new jersey and illinois because all the states have all this cheap foreign labor. essentially, americans feel they cannot get a good paying job. a year and a half ago i was on a contract where i was the only native born american over 40 and

a group of 15 contractors. 71% of the tech workers in silicon valley are foreign-born. that is colonization and displacement. we want to create a manufacturing base and create jobs in the state. we have to stop the cheap labor dumping. have what kind of jobs been lost in the state of illinois? is it manufacturing? caller: let me give you an example. romney's owned by mitt altra capital company -- altra capital company -- ultra capital company, they laid off everyone therced them to train chinese who took their jobs.

right before the 2012 election, it is amazing the press never picked up on that. host: you said you are in tech, right? caller: i do cloud data center networking. host: would you mind sharing how much you make an hour? caller: if i was getting paid anl market wages, $70 to $75 hour. am to wage suppression, i dealing with when i was making 20 years ago. $118,000n valley, sounds like a lot of money but that is way below market rate. if only americans competed for those jobs. to live in silicon valley, you have to make $150,000 to $200,000 a year because the rents are close to $4000 a month.

new york and d.c. are just as bad. host: he mentioned foxconn, the taiwanese company that received tax incentives from wisconsin. the new york times reported the governor and lawmakers reported to more than $4 billion in tax credits over a 15 year period. the plans for the plant including what it would produce in the composition of its workforce, have changed over time. the president of the greater milwaukee chamber of commerce sent foxconn believed 70% of hires would be for plant floor jobs and 30% design and engineering. now those have flipped. sabrina in asheville, north carolina. arear: this was a textile a couple of decades ago. a placeit was also

where philip morris tobacco was. i think what has happened is that american workers have gotten too expensive. if we want to keep this industry here, we have to be able to compete. we have to cut down how much the insurance companies are putting on each individual worker and we will have to basically put our -- we are able to keep in foreign markets. host: let me share with sabrina and others who have mentioned cigarette manufacturing. a business section of the wall street journal -- barbara maker forecasts accelerating declines -- marlboro maker forecasts excel at creating -- accelerating design -- declines. the shift from regular

cigarettes to e-cigarettes is happening and the forecast of accelerating decline and therefore manufacturing and cigarette sales. bruce from maysville, kentucky, you are an employer. caller: we have a software company and we are moving into manufacturing. manufacturing is coming on strong under the trump administration. onmake software that runs gps and total station equipment and data collectors. we also make mining related , and we have started to do manufacturing even in our town in maysville, kentucky. we are ordering parts, metal, plastic, etc., from other manufacturers and we are finding

great enthusiasm when we contact these other manufacturing companies. they are motivated to work with us. i think there is a real strong spirit in the american manufacturing market right now. that is what we see. host: is company hiring? -- is your company hiring? caller: yes, we are hiring. host: how many jobs have you added? caller: at a small level, about three, but it is going to grow. we will expand this drastically where it will be 20 to 25 soon. host: how much are you paying an hour on average? what is the range? caller: i want to take issue with the guy who says $70 to $75,000 is a normal software wage. that is in the upper 10% of software employees. that is a business we are in.

he was totally exaggerating what the software programming coding wage is on average, and blaming foreign workers on lowering the wage. he is over the top and needs to take a job for $40 to $50 an hour. host: but he lives in chicago, so the cost of living is higher. caller: people should move. we are not going to cater to people who say, i will stay and you will pay me. our wages for manufacturing are in the $20 to $24 range. compare tooes that the cost of living? jober: it would be a prime in this area, absolute crime. -- prime. this is a low cost place in a

-- and aa good place good place to have a business but it is difficult to recruit. host: you just do not have the people with the skill set? caller: i am not so worried about that. they can all be trained. everything we do, except for coding, can be trained. we are proud of the work force we have. the key is enthusiasm and work ethic. host: you are willing to train people? caller: i got a guy right now in england who we have hired here. he has been over there two weeks getting trained on making a new product. he makes one already used in mining, and we have an office we purchased near york where he is being trained on a new product. his secondmaking product and that is where we will have the growth. people will calm in underneath

him. -- come in underneath him. host: we are asking you to tell washington what it is like where you live. the president says manufacturing is up and we want you to let washington know what it is like. the president talked about the impact of nafta on the manufacturing sector. >> nafta was one of the worst deals ever made. during the campaign i said we will terminate nafta or negotiate a new deal. we negotiated a good deal. pre-nafta would be frankly ok, or the new deal, but i will not allow nafta. it was a horrible deal for this country. you look at the scars all over where you go to new england, ohio, pennsylvania, north carolina, factories are still empty. nafta was a horrible deal. the usmca is a great deal.

pre-nafta, we had surpluses with mexico. with nafta, we have huge deficits. we lose $100 billion a year on trade with x ago. this has been going on for many years, so i stopped it. archie in derry, michigan, what is it like where you live? caller: server, michigan, three rivers. i worked in the manufacturing industry in the next town over. we got to a good wage, everything was going good. we started out with 800 employees when i got there, a two-tier system. employees and 300 they are talking about laying off again. all, going good not at because the majority of jobs that pay in this area are between $10 and $12 an hour.

we are having problems trying to get a job to compensate for jobs people have lost. in indiana, the majority of jobs pay between $10 and $14 an hour, and you are working longer hours. the manufacturing did i notice, they lessened the people, increased the hours, and lessened the wage, and expect you to do the same job for less insurance,ay higher and try to make a living out of it. is in a i work for i work for islant in a situation where everyone is wondering if it will stay open or close, will jobs come back or leave permanently? host: what kind of

manufacturing? what did you do? caller: automotive manufacturing , plastic manufacturing. the job around the corner, another plastic company pays five dollars less an hour with no benefits. we are unionized. i do not know if they are so we reopen union our contract and everyone take a pay cut and they will bring in more jobs, or what they are doing. everybody is worried they will have a job tomorrow. , across thean midwest, freezing temperatures, and that is impacting manufacturing. cold paralyzes states and shuts down factory. general motors hoped the ,roduction of 13 land -- plants five will reopen later in the day. fiat chrysler canceled morning

shifts at two plants in michigan, also canceled the second shifts. richard in minneapolis, good morning. richard. sorry, wrong number. richard. caller: good morning. host: i pushed the wrong button. go ahead. caller: this is richard. let's remember the famous words of ross perot, if we are going to win, we are going to get nafta and hear a giant sucking sound of all of our jobs going to mexico. thank god we have a president who is finally tackling this. democrats and republicans have been paid off by these big companies for years so the companies could get their way,

but in st. paul, the ford ranger plant closed years ago. i think they quit making the ford ranger. back in ronald reagan's days, forld reagan put on a quota japanese cars coming into the united states. they wanted to move some of the japanese companies into manufacturing in the united states. all of the japanese companies moved their manufacturing plants in right to work states. member ande a union in many places you have to have a union to work because the conditions get that. -- bad. the company's move to right to work states or move to mexico or buy it from china. like the tax raise that h.w. bush put in that gave clinton a

surplus, this will not happen right away. this will take 9, 10 years for the jobs to come back. think goodness we have -- thank goodness we have trump to pay attention to this. host: let's go to tom in otis bell, michigan. what is it like where you live? caller: what was that? host: what other jobs like? caller: it is improving. i worked for general motors for 42.6 years for buick engineering. i was a staunch democrat until the 1990's when bill clinton signed the deal with mexico. since then, flint has gone down the drain. the plant which i worked at was half a mile wide, three miles long. that has been completely destroyed. ac was a mile squared.

that was completely destroyed. since trump has been in, they built a new seating plant. processmotors is in the of building a brand-new parts plant. on genesee 120 acres road in flint. they are building a plant one and aile wide quarter-mile long -- or the other way around. i tell you -- host: can i ask you come at the end of your career, how much were you making an hour? making in 1962i was $2.49. that was a skilled trade. i was a wood pattern model maker. at the end of my trade, i was

working up to a foundry in changed toch was saginaw metal casting. i was a metal pattern making because of the can -- maker because of the computers making all of our stuff with printing. end and i the metal was making $35 an hour. i was getting 10% more to work on third shift. $2.45 to $35. my friend has been interesting. tom, generalng me, motors cannot keep on paying these rates. they cannot keep doing it. it ended up d so.

-- diesel. were talkings about how they could not afford to rates so they moved mexico, but i not seen them reduce their carbon rise is. -- car prices. host: i am going to move on to john in old fort, tennessee. caller: yes, ma'am. let's get the facts straight. .rump is trying to get us jobs listen, lady, chattanooga is building up fine. host: we are listening. anyways, we got manufacturing around here. it is not know big-time pay but it is a decent living that people can survive on. it is better than being on welfare, which to democrats, why

don't you do a show for how many things they have tried to do to get jobs? i do not mean government jobs where you get taxpayers to pay for. i mean real jobs. compare what they have done to what he has done in two years, obama. you will not need democrats if you get work. it will not be, you need me. they act like money grows on trees and it don't. host: in other news this morning, the senator from new jersey cory booker announced his intention to run for president in 2020. here is what he put out. >> in america, we have a common pain but what we are lacking is a sense of common purpose. i grew up knowing that the only way we can make change is when people come together.

when i was a baby, my parents tried to move us into a neighborhood with great public schools but realtors would not sell us a home because of the color of our skin. a group of white lawyers would watch the kurdish and were -- courage and were inspired to , and they communities changed the course of my entire life. in america, courage is contagious. my dad told me, it never forget where you came from or how many people had to sacrifice to get you where you are. over 20 years ago, i moved to fight slumlords and help families stay in their homes. i still live there today and i'm the only senator that goes home to a low income and are city community -- inner-city community. the history of our nation is defined by collect his action and interwoven destinies of

slaves and abolitionists, those who were born here and those who chose america as home, those who took up arms and those who challenged change. i believe we can build a country where no one is forgotten, no one is left behind. where parents can put food on the table, where there are good paying jobs for good benefits in every neighborhood. where the criminal justice system keeps us safe, instead of shuffling more children into cages and closets. where we see the faces of our leaders on television and feel pride, not shame. wake.not a matter of can it is a matter of do we have the collective will, the american well? i believe we do. together, we will channel our pain into our common purpose together. america, we will rise.

i am cory booker and i am running for president of the united states of america. host: in other 2020 news, the new york times has the story that arnie sales -- bernie sanders unveiled a plan to decrease estate taxes and suggested applying estate taxes -- the same level as 2009. it lowers the threshold under the current tax law passed in 2017, which would raise the amount an individual is allowed to transfer before facing estate tax to roughly $11 million. back to our conversation about manufacturing and what it is like where you live. let's talk to craig in novelty, ohio. caller: good morning. what i see happening -- i live outside of cleveland -- what i see happening is not good. company, thetor

ford plant is shut down. brook park casting plant was shut down and leveled. avon lake fort plant is diminished. i started, i was working in the construction industry and we used to go into these plants and help them retooling them. no longer. all that is going on here is they are building amazon plants and stuff like that. the only thing that happened since donald trump has been in office as my insurance rates have gone up 40%. host: these new companies coming in like amazon, will they be hiring? will there be jobs? caller: that is what they are saying. paperst see any ads in or anything like that. where they will pull their people from, i do not know. this area has been attacked

because it was a strong union area and they wages were livable wages. now i see we are just going down from people in manufacturing , now i$20, $22 an hour see the same jobs at $12 and $10 and eight dollars. law enforcement jobs at $8.40 an hour. i do not see this happening in a good way. if there are jobs coming, i do not see the pay scale going up to a livable wage without two jobs. host: what is a livable wage? caller: over $20 an hour. i am talking about a livable wage where you have one job and you can sustain your household with that one job, including health insurance has gone through the roof. host: one parent working on $20 or more is sustainable where you live? caller: yes. host: craig in novelty, ohio.

andrew in white plains, new york, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. in white plains, there is a lot of buildings but it is all geared toward residential. a lot of it is centered around the local train station, which means mostly people coming in are out of new york city. his are not manufacturing jobs. -- these are not manufacturing jobs. these are high-end service jobs. your calls talking about trump ringing back manufacturing jobs, i do not think it will happen. we will no longer be the king of the hill as far as manufacturing. we will have to focus on specialty areas and do something about that. we cannot just write it off as globalization. it is capitalism and it is rewarded by wall street when

companies cut back and shift operations overseas or somewhere cheaper. host: what about the technological revolution as well? 1987, i attended a presentation at watson ibm's research center. the speaker spoke about how the manufacturing of laptop computers had been simplified so manufacturing could be done in countries with a low level of education but a decent technical skill rate. that was 1987. it has not changed. they talk about technological jobs, but the manufacturing will not happen here. it will happen in places with less regulation, where it is cheaper, and where wall street will reward investors. they talked about a furniture manufacturer in high point, north carolina, and it went to china.

guess who got rewarded? are hurting ourselves, and it is not the democrats come at nothing republicans. it is american grade and manufacturing. too any people are earning money forcing that working class out of service. host: artificial intelligence will not take away jobs. it will displace some jobs but will more likely change what human workers do. misinformed.ai is i am not alone. experts believe a plethora of new jobs, many of which we do not know what they will be. jobs will shift and evolve, not disappear. ai will do things like pulling data to aid in real-time decision-making. canxample would be that ai empower a customer service agent with information so they can

decide whether to issue a refund. you have seen lots of articles about it. this is just one on forbes.com. tom is in newark, ohio. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i live in a condominium community of freestanding homes. we moved here in 2006 during the obama years. stopped inction 2009. we had 47 homes that were built and we still had 53 vacant lots. aty started building again the very end of 2017, and they built -- we now have 62 homes, and every home that is built is sold. host: and you give credit for that too? caller: to the economy.

host: and the president? caller: yes. people cannot buy a home without good credit. these homes go for maybe $200,000, so you have to have a pretty good job to get the credit to buy a home. a lot of these are new, young families. my wife and i are retired. it is a condominium that is freestanding so we have a yard but do not have to mow grass. families are moving in and as fast as they build them, they are sold. host: what kind of jobs to these families have? caller: most of them are working for banks and some of them are in the manufacturing area. i am not sure where all they work but i know they have the money to buy the home and that is not easy. host: bill in wilmington, north carolina, good morning. caller: good morning.

i have called in before -- not lately -- that i used to live in youngstown, ohio. i know there is a lot of towns, but youngstown which was once a great city and if you were not working it was because you did not want to. i retired from the moorestown assembly plant on most 20 years ago -- almost 20 years ago. i do not know what the answers are. all i know is you cannot live like 10 dollars, $12, $13 an hour. you cannot do it in this day and age. ofm just my own observation the two politicians that always are to mind our tim ryan -- tim ryan and jared brown. host: both from ohio. caller: every time i listen to

upm, i just -- it fires me god,se i don't, honest to i do not see where they have accomplished anything. all they do is talk. i never see -- i keep an i on what goes on in ohio -- i just never see any action. i practically had to give my house a way to get out of there and i left skidmarks leaving town. host: you left for a better job, i assume? caller: no, i retired. ones just -- i lived like mile from youngstown state university. everything went to crap. it was just unbelievable. i think it could have been prevented. you had to see this stuff coming over the last 30 years or so. host: who do you blame?

unions, trade deals? partially, if to not all, i have to put some of the blame on nafta if not all of it. youngstown was a big business down and it was a big uniontown -- union town. if companies were in trouble, i did not always agree with everything a union did, but if a company has got problems, you cannot convince me that if they did not go to the union and say, listen, here is where we stand and here is the proof, we can't give you this raise at this time . you cannot convince me that there could not have been some negotiating between the company and the union on some kind of an equal level. i can remember one time at work in lordstown, our wages -- this

has been a long time ago -- got frozen, and the next thing you know the salary people higher up were getting bonuses. that just puts a bad taste in everybody's mouth. if i have to bite the bullet, everybody should have to. host: his experience in youngstown, ohio. keep holding on the line if you have called in and continue to continue this conversation to the top of the hour of what it is like where you live. our manufacturing jobs coming back? a senate vote yesterday is making headline news. trump loses free reign on foreign policy. senate majority leader will --onnell, republican bush directly questioning the white house's plans to draw down u.s.

troops in syria and afghanistan. 45 republicans voted and democrats for that resolution. trump is chided by senate gop. in the new york times as well -- president draws bipartisan swipe from the senate. the vote was the second time in two months a republican led senate rebuked president trump on foreign policy. 66 senators voted to end the literary assistance for saudi arabia's war in yemen. the near times -- new york times. they also note that virtually every senator considering a white house run voted against the mcconnell resolution, including mr. sanders, ms. warren, as jell-o brand, cory booker -- gillibrand, cory

booker, and others. only michael bennet of colorado voted yes. the wall street journal editorial, conservative editorial says the vote yesterday was a warning to mr. trump. 43 republicans offered good advice on syria and afghanistan, and said it was not only strategic but it was political advice and the president should listen. we will go to bill in wilmington, with carolina. leese me, let me go on to and fayetteville, north carolina. >> -- caller: good morning. talking about manufacturing, we lost in the past 20 years, we three manufacturing plants out of three counties. lost all those jobs, never came

back. also, talk about artificial intelligence, people are blowing smoke. they like to blow smoke about computers. refurbish computer after computer after computer. eat in allhould not areas of life and should not be in all manufacturers -- be in all areas of life and should not the and all manufacturers. break, alling, tax that tax break through the big businessmen supposedly bringing money back, have not seen much of that. if they did that, you would see a lot of change, but i have not seen that. host: we will move on to tom in amherst, ohio. caller: good morning.

i think trump is doing a pretty fair job. is thing you got to remember that it takes a lot of money to get these plants back up and on the road. the question is -- do the big corporations want to make the capital investment -- that is the money -- do they want to put the money back into rebuilding these plants? if trump will be there for eight years, they will say, maybe. if he will only be there for two more years and we get an anti-manufacturing democrat in, it will be a wipeout. they know they will lose that money. the plants will go back down. the board jobs will go overseas and it will be a bigger mess. i really dread -- and i am saying this as a union man -- i dread the thought of a democrat

getting back in the white house because it will just kill what is left of manufacturing in the united states. the president was touting manufacturing under his administration yesterday in the oval office. president signs order to help manufacturers. the executive order americanning buy projects will recommend but not require that what the administration people -- administration said was $700 million, goes toward american manufacturing products including aluminum, steel, iron. they will tamp down on waivers. the presidentith that manufacturing is on the rise in this country? are you seeing it where you live? paul in grand rapids, michigan. caller: how are you today?

host: doing well. manufacturinged for the last 20 years in grand rapids, michigan. 2008 i lost my job because the line of credit from the bank dried up, even though we were still putting out product for our customer. we could not pay our bills because the banks would not release money to us. i lost my job in 2008, 2009. 2010, i found a manufacturing job working 40 hours a week. i have been there eight years. i am a machinist. i got five dollars in the last eight years of raises. the industry is going good. michiganf the state in on the north side. we cannot find people to work. host: why not?

they do not want to or do not have the skill? caller: it is mainly the skill. skill, somekes some training, which we are willing to do and i have been doing that with people coming in, and helping out. coming into work every day is a hard thing for some people, i guess, to get up and get their. -- there. it is a cumbersome job and it is boring, just loading machines. they call them screw machines, which dropped a lot of parts really quick, and there is a lot of manual labor to that and checking to a print for specs and stuff. that is a quality issue, we have an issue with that because people not knowing the importance of the quality and keeping dimensions intact. host: as the company hiring? caller: yeah, we are hiring.

we will hire anybody if you are willing to work and show up on time and stay there. that is the hard thing. iey come in sometimes, but would like to ask the people in ohio in youngstown, because it the steel place, are mills firing up? we have problems finding steel because of the overseas stuff is not that great. it is not mixed well, especially stainless steel. it has a high nickel content. host: we will put that question out to anyone watching in youngstown. donny is watching in columbia, kentucky. i think we lost him. in ono, west virginia, good morning. caller: i am retired now.

i live right out of huntington, west virginia. the company i worked for for 36 years is still there and they have been there since 1906. , whatmpany i worked for not believe it now, steel dynamics owns it. -- iis a mitch mcconnell mean, what is his name? host: west virginia senator? caller: i am talking about the one for president. host: running for president? caller: he did, he run against obama. host: mitt romney? caller: mitt romney owns steel dynamics and the company i work for. it is the only union company that steel dynamics owns right now as far as i know. we are -- host: what do the jobs pay?

caller: i have been retired for 10 years now, almost 12. i guess i am making about $20 an hour because they do get a raise. years.n the union for 18 i know how it is on both sides. you know, huntington had five manufacturing plants when i started to work. now there is two. loveall university would for west virginia to close down so they could have more places to build their college. you see what they do? they do not want manufacturing jobs. they want a university town. host: in other news on the trade

front, the wall street journal front page, from the oval office deal, broker china trade the president expects to meet with the -- with china. they proposed to the u.s. that on arump meet with mr. xi chinese resort island after his planned summit with kim jong-un in february. china will by 200 million tons of soybeans daily, a number mr. trump repeated. the administration clarified that china has agreed to buy an additional 5 million metric tons of soybeans but not daily and no timeframe was specified. tony in staten island, new york. caller: i worked for a major trumpeting -- trucking company. before they went out of business , they could not get enough drivers. we were so busy in new york,

trailer load after trailer load we were picking up night and day. 27, 28es i would work hours to get freight into the system. when they signed nafta, the bottom fell out. by 1993, the company was out of business. , we bounced guys around from different guy -- jobs to find jobs. it took me almost two years to get on the job. when they signed these deals, they have hollowed out the middle-class and killed our pension. i went from $50,000 a year to $12,000 a year. if anybody wants to see how the economy is doing, check the tonnage of these trucking companies and see how much they are handling. host: why do you say that? the papern article in about how oil and gas companies are going back to the rails. caller: the reason i say that is

because when you order something from amazon, somebody had to bring it to you. when you go to the store to buy lumber for your house, that had to come by truck. that did not come by rail. most of the cargo is handled by truck. if you want to see how the economy is doing, see how much tonnage these trucking companies are handling. my wife works for a company and all through the year they could not find drivers. they were taking drivers with non-cdl license is to make deliveries. she said they are so slow they are sending people home. host: what is causing the slowdown? caller: i don't know. i guess it is just a manufacturing being shipped overseas or it might be a slow time of the year. if you look at the garment center in new york, it were so busy you cannot even park your truck. you had to make an appointment

to get a spot. if you look at even upstate new york, go to gloversville, new it's a ghost town.d five to -- it looks like it was bombed. none of those people over there can find jobs. this is what they did to us when they signed the deal. they fought them on this but bill clinton signed it and if anyone has to blame someone, i blame bill clinton and the company because they did this when they push these free-trade -- newt gingrich and bill clinton. they did this to us when they push these free-trade deals. everyone is looking at poverty, i met $12,000 year and i'm struggling to hold my head above water. i can't spend a dime. and other people are in trouble, and it's going on across the country. if i wanted to go back to work am i going to drive a truck for $.26 a mile? would anyone put themselves in

that kind of job for that? but we can't raise the wage because the trucking companies won't raise the wages. there is no union to fight anymore for you. that's what they did. they fought for you. you had someone on your side. host: tony, in staten island, new york. uncertainty is the headline from the columbus dispatch over gm's huge are in lordstown. andmembers in lordstown ohio politicians continue to lobby general motors for another car or truck for the plant, which since 1966 has been a major part of the economy. at stake are not just more than 1500 jobs there now, but also businesses that rely on long-term -- and the taxes the plant generates. let's hear from mike, in richmond, virginia. hello. caller: it's great that you put

me on right after that teamster. i have been a nonunion trucker for 31 years, and by careful planning i will have something when i retire. but that's beside the point. the union companies struck so many times. they went on strike some any times and they were running such thatht operating ratio when every time one of these companies struck, they conducted a general strike, three or four more unionized carriers went out of business because they were so close to 100% operating ratio. but that's beside the point. i have to get into it a little bit about what has happened in the trucking business since donald trump became president. but since you just started getting traction, for eight years while obama was in office i was struggling to make ends meet. too many trucks chasing not enough freight, why?

who place capital at risk of loss in vision -- in business ventures. the evil 1% rich. those people were holding their money back. the reason is that they did not want to have to pay taxes that it appeared that they were going to have to pay with a democrat in the white house. when trump began getting some traction for nomination there was a noticeable uptick in freight, and when he got the nomination the company i drive for started to have trouble getting enough drivers to move all the freight. now, after a couple of years, i cannot catch my breath. i'm so busy. i am constantly, constantly, under pressure to move forward freight. aspect to the bad profession i chose, but it's the nature of the beast.

one more thing, as far as the mileage pay. there is no $.26 a mile anymore, that was 30 years ago. over the road companies are now paying $.58 and $.60 a mile. drivers are making $95,000 a year. if a person is willing to take on the lifestyle and be in the bloodstream of american commerce, a man can make a good limning -- living driving an 18 wheeler. host: how many days a week are you working and for how many hours? caller: how can i put this, when , you aree a trucker not getting a job. you are embracing a different kind of life. you don't really look in terms of things as how many doubt -- hours a day you work because you live on the truck. you get maybe two to three days at home every couple of weeks,

so some companies get you home every weekend for a day or a day and a half. if you are in a regional operation, because i'm not doing that anymore, if you're in a regional operation like i am, you can get home every night and be considered an over the road driver. it's not a matter of how many hours a day that you have worked, it's how much work you get accomplished. richmond,, in virginia. we will leave the conversation therefore now. related to that is a headline in the wall street journal, stocks post best january in 30 years. interest rate increases are on hold, and there are worries that higher raised -- rates would curtail profit. we covered this news conference if you missed it and you want to hear from the federal reserve chair about the state of our economy you can go to c-span.org.

we are going to take a break, when we come back, josh geltzer, a former advisor to president obama will talk about election security and president trump's relationship with the intelligence community. and the debate over immigration will continue and we take a deep dive into the e-verify system and how it works with david bier . we will be right back. voters in new mexico's first district elected deb haaland to the house, making her one of the first two native american women to serve in congress. she was previously the chair of the new mexico democratic party. --resented socio-torah small representative socio-torah small mexico representative works for the new mac -- for tom udall. the congresswoman is not the only member of her family who is in politics, her husband is a

member of new mexico's estate house of representatives. -- new mexico apostate house of representatives. representative greg stanton served six years as the mayor of phoenix before taking his seat in congress. he has also been arizona's deputy attorney general and a member of the phoenix city council. and congresswoman ann kirkpatrick joined the u.s. house of representatives for the third time and her fourth term this year. she lost her first reelection bid in 2010. only to be reelected. she left the house to run against john mccain. representative kirkpatrick was a prosecutor and a city attorney. and congressman steve horse wert -- steve -- is another member of the house who served one term before being defeated in his 2013 reelection bid.

before that he was a nevada state senator, serving as the majority leader. he has also been an executive at a marketing firm and a job-training company. voters in nevada's third district elected susie lead -- susie lee to the house, she ran nonprofit organizations that help to disadvantage youth and the afterschool all-stars program ran after school athletic activities and community in schools of nevada helped prevent kids from dropping out of high school. the next faces familiar across the world, but new to congress, mitt romney in the u.s. senate, the 2012 gop presidential nominee served as massachusetts andrnor in the early 2000's before that headed up the 2002 salt lake city winter limbic. this was his second run for senate, -- winter olympics. this is his second run for senate. utah also has a new member of

the house, ben mcadams now represents the states fourth district, the former mayor of south lake county, he is the only democrat in utah's congressional delegation. in congress, new leaders, watch it all on c-span. >> washington journal continues. host: back at the table this morning, josh geltzer, the executive director at georgetown -- andity law schools the senior director of the national security council during the obama administration. talk about your background in election security and cyber -- in a security. guest: there is a link between , the privateism sector has become in some ways the front line in the counterterrorism area. you have isis, in particular, finding new ways to recruit and radicalize followers using social media.

they do what they cannot do physically, penetrate america's borders, and try to get people to engage in violence here. in a sense that is what is happening in the election security field. you have actors like russia, and others as well, reaching into america, trying to polarize american voters, deceive them about what candidates stand for. even deceive them about when or whether to vote. host: how big is the threat and how does it work? guest: it seems like it's a problem. it's difficult to isolate just the foreign peace because when there's disinformation online it becomes a domestic amplification. it gets picked up by actors here and it spreads. but it's part of the problem. by having apart sense of what divides americans. some of the charges that special counsel robert mueller has written up in his work show that this was an effort way before

the 2016 election itself, in which russia began to study what was dividing americans and what could mislead them. they had people come to the united states to learn about us better. he studied what we were saying and consuming online -- they studied what we were saying and consuming online. they built following that seemed american in nature, to resonate with the electorate, and then to push those people, to make them think a candidate as one famously posted, was endorsed by the pope. no candidate was endorsed by the pope. but to get them to believe that, or to believe that hillary clinton was involved in some sort of sex ring in washington, that's how they use the following. host: you wrote a piece and political on how to prevent the next election disaster. how? we begin by finding something that didn't happen after the 2016 election cycle. ofre was no clear consensus

the -- after 9/11 in which domestically and internationally there was a sense that this was the problem, this is the coalition that needs to be built, and the coalition created the red lines which if crossed would get countries to act against those causing -- crossing those lines. so we propose the united states needs to articulate where the red line is, and get other countries to agree to it. part of what we propose, perhaps the most controversial, is we need to clarify how different we are from the russians. if that means giving up some things we have done in the past, like putting our finger on the scale of foreign elections, it's worth giving that up until it's clear what's acceptable and what's not. host: you will get this phone call, are we different than russia and our adversaries when we have interfered in other countries elections? caller: it's a fair question and

as we say in the article, yes. certainly post-cold war. yes. when america has intervened, when it has tried to tip the scales and commentators have talked about the support when ad by the u.s. candidate was low in the polls in russia and he ended up rebounding and winning, it was still a pro-democracy push the united states made. globally.e the u.s. intervened for democracy. russia is pretty explicitly anti-democracy. they think it is brittle and they think they can poke at it in ways that make the u.s. weaker on the world stage and allow russia to do more of what it wants. host: do you think motivation matters? caller: i think motivation matters and i think the tactics matter. to hack into a domestic political campaign and share the content of that campaign's internal to munication's with a domestic electorate to try to skew the results -- internal

communications campaign to share with the domestic electorate to skew the results is --. host: we want to get our viewers involved. for democrats (202) 748-8000, for republicans (202) 748-8001, for independents (202) 748-8002. start dialing in. we want to take your comments and questions. you mentioned coalition of the united states and our allies together combating this type of interference in election. what with the coalition look like? are there any models out there from previous incidents that other countries and the united states could use going forward? caller: it helps to galvanize a coalition that this is not a problem distinctive to america. europeans actually suffered from russian democracy interference before the 2016 campaign season and they continue to suffer from

it. it seems like building on that, one could utilize perhaps nato, or a relatively new cyber focused unit that nato has stood up as a center of gravity for building a coalition. there is intelligence that could be shared by these countries as to what happens next? what tactics is russia deploying? especially ones that might be new and hard for an individual to detect. and for together, countries could roll out anxious and name and shame publicly. that is where having an international can that this could help. sanctions the trumpet ministration done on russia, have they helped? done on administration russia, have they helped? caller: does not seem that way. we learned that some of the materials that robert mueller shared for discovery purposes with opposing counsel was fed to russian disinformation aimed at discrediting the molar campaign

-- the mueller campaign itself. when you have russia trying to engage in a disinformation campaign to discredit our own investigation into the russian disinformation campaign it seems they are undeterred. host: who is doing the work? caller: the tech sector is trying to help. they have begun sharing information with the government and each other. in the past 24 hours more has come out from the tech companies about not just russian interference in the 2018 midterms, but venezuelan and iranian as well. what i found interesting and what the tech companies disclosed is that twitter and facebook were in communication with each other. they were sharing about what they sought to flag things on other platforms. host: in this last election but not 2016. caller: correct, that seems like a step in progress. host: what are you looking for in 2020? what's on the horizon? where is the threat coming from and how? caller: we will see some tactics

that are old, fear introductions, falsities, things that polarize americans. but we may see some more sophisticated stuff as well. a lot of us worry about deep ares, videos that essentially if you and i were having this conversation except we would not be. they would be spliced together from earlier conversations and they can make us look like we are saying things we are not saying. we have all been taught that seeing is believing and it's hard to suppress that urge. i worry about those going viral being slow anden difficult to realize that it was not real. int: let's go to ed, fayetteville, north carolina. caller: i'm not concerned about russian interference, what concerns me is when you have joshua and the obama administration targeting conservative groups through the

irs to target conservative groups. do you know what concerns me? when you have the fbi and the doj colluding with the democratic party to beat trump. that is what concerns me. host: let's take his point, what do you say to people like ed and others who say this is not on their radar. they don't see this as a priority. caller: i think it's worth worrying about. i understand domestic institutions need to stay as they should be, professional, with oversight done to make sure they stay in their lanes as they generally have. thatoreign actors are ones i would hope that we could unite against. we have a lost opportunity in that 2016 election cycle when folks went from the executive branch over to congress and tried to get a very strong statement of bipartisan opposition to russian in -- election interference. and as it has been related, mitch mcconnell resisted that.

that strikes me as a lost moment to say if you are a foreign country you don't mess with american elections. i hope we can get there. host: let's listen to the director of national intelligence, dan coats was testifying along with haspelpher wray and gina . they were on capitol hill talking about the threats facing the united states. here's what he had to say about russia. >> week spect russia will continue to wage its information war -- we expect russia to continue to wait its information war against democracies and use social media to divide society. russia's attack against ukrainian naval vessels is the latest example of the kremlin's willingness to violate international norms, to coerce neighbors and accomplish goals. will usexpect russia cyber techniques to influence ukraine's upcoming presidential election. the kremlin has outlined russia

-- has aligned russia with oppressive regimes in cuba, venezuela, and iran. and moscow's relationship with beijing is closer than it has been in decades. the kremlin is also stacked up engagement in the middle east and south asia using web it sales, private security firms, and energy deals to advance global influence. host: your reaction to hearing that from the director of national intelligence? caller: those are pretty strong work -- guest: that's a pretty stark assessment of where russia is trying to go in the world. what i think what is most noticeable is that he implicitly makes the connection between the election interference, which can seem puzzling. why do this? america or european countries by meddling in their elections? he connects that with russia's intervention abroad. that's what it's designed to do, to force a country like america inward, to divide and polarize

and allow what russia wants to do abroad to be unchecked. i think that's an important connection. zach, welcome. caller: i hear a lot about, it's -- comments about russian but as far as i know all the wikileaks emails were true, so they were not trying to influence us, they're informing us. and this information comes from companies owning 90% of the media. that is where we really get our misinformation from. and i think that's the side josh was on. host: two points there, wikileaks was emails that were written, some people feel that that leak was informing the american people about what was happening with the democratic party. caller: i see it somewhat differently. hacking private information is against domestic law.

it may be against international law. but it's also not like these were leases were provided -- releases to clarify, they were provided to distract. they were tied in a way that took away development from the campaigns of both candidates, and they were taken out of context, edited in ways that did not educate the american public. host: and the second point, that there is a manipulation by media companies because they are corporations, multinational corporations that own media companies. do you have concerns that media companies are being manipulated by others? or are they biased and manipulated by their corporate leaders? guest: i think media companies have a challenge. when an actor like wikileaks or others associated with them put out information like this, there's a 10 tatian to cover that as a story. -- there is a temp tatian --

to tatian -- temptation put that out as a story. it's difficult to not amplify what should not be amplified and cover news. i think they're much more eyes wide open about the challenge and i'm interested to see how they will handle it. indiana, on the democrats line. caller: mr. geltzer. i take it you are familiar with the plot to destroy democracy am i correct? host: what is the book? toler: it's called the plot destroy democracy by malcolm x. guest: i have heard of it. caller: russia is playing this guy like a videogame. they look at us like we are a bunch of weenies.

democracy is a brittle concept. live and let live, head coach of the the patriots, it's like i'm complaining that i don't like the way the rams run their team. you do your things, we will do ours. and one more thing i would like to say, i have been living under a dark cloud of scandal, i'm --dering if we will have this is disconcerting. people trust the next election? so, elections are the cornerstone of democracy and i think we want to push the current government to explain what they are doing and what they are doing beyond what was done in 2016 to get the public confidence back. what's the alternative? we need people to vote, we need people to have a vote that they can rely on.

so to have more public communication in the build up to 2020 from the department of homeland security, from the states who are responsible for election security on the ground, that i think is part of restoring the american confidence that information is trusted and the votes that are cast get counted. host: let's go back to the hearing between the national security officials and the senate foreign relations -- the senate intelligence committee, there was an exchange between senator kamala harris and the director of national intelligence, dan coats, on combating foreign influence on social media. ofdo you have any intention having a written strategy that will be agreed to and understood by all members of the ic as it relates to the collective responsibilities and individual responsibilities for addressing foreign influence on social media in the united states? i have said, it's a fluid

situation. we are making significant oneress on that in terms of specific written strategy, something that will have to be looked at in a continuum of change. why at exactly sure written strategy would give us anything more, a single strategy would that would have to be modified daily. you can be assured that it is a top priority as we have talked about before, it is something we are working on and we have seen significant progress. when you go back and read the transcript of what we have talked about you will understand that. >> i have the transcript from february 13 through of 2018 when we had this discussion. when i asked you then, would you

provide us a written strategy for how the ic is dealing with these threats. has there been any advancement on that point since february of 2018 russian mark --? -- 2018? >> i will get back to you on that. host: do you think a written strategy is necessary? guest: i think senator harris is getting at something important, when you have a really difficult multifaceted national security problem, and i think foreign interference or meddling in our democracy definitely qualifies, it helps to have the white house driving the government response. different parts of the government have different authorities in different tools at their disposal. the white house can coordinate that into one strategy and that does not seem to be happening. the trumpet ministration has put out written strategy -- the trump administration has put out

written strategy on counterterrorism, it does not actually reflect what he does which tend to limit their value. host: when his interference in act of war? is it ever -- when is interference an act of war? is it ever? . guest: an armed attack is considered an act of war under international law. applying that to cyber terrorism has consumed a lot of academic papers. we have seen some cyber attacks that may have reached that threshold, where you actually destroy a main frame, or a hard drive. the type of things happening on social media, posting videos and threats probably don't seem to meet that standard but that does not mean there is not an appropriate response. coral, in mississippi, republican. in 2013 i was on the

mississippi river, i saw putin at a visit. reach the other president and they ignored my call. host: let's talk to robert, in greenville, north carolina, a democrat. caller: our problem with this russian interference, the biggest problem is that 90% of the republicans are allowing this to go on. they are putting up with an unfit president who lies to us every single day, and they are doing nothing. and also voter suppression. that's what they're working on. all republican party is 90% -- our republican party is 90% going along with the country. -- against the country. host: any thoughts? i think it's an important point that this is not a partisan issue.

the russians favored one party last time, they may choose to intervene another party next time. it they may even intervene in the primaries. this should not be a -- they may not even -- they may intervene in the primaries. this should not be a partisan issue. host: do you think the president listens and takes seriously the information he is getting from the intelligence community? caller: it doesn't seem that way -- guest: it doesn't seem that way. you have the intelligence chiefs -- at anir best at and important annual event to provide information. and the president publicly lambaste them and undercuts their testimony. that on twitter, but yesterday in the oval office this is what he had to say. >> [indiscernible] www.c-span.org --

[indiscernible] >> they said they were misquoted, and it was taken out of context. and i suggest that you call them. they said it was fake news. >> [indiscernible] >> it didn't surprise me, but were here to talk about china. >> [indiscernible] it didn't undermine anything. we need a wall. host: the president is saying they were totally misquoted. what do you make of him saying are you hearing about his relationship with the intelligence community and those that serve? caller: the president seems to be the only one from the government claiming that the intelligence community's presentations to congress were misrepresented. a number of journalist said that we have not received any complaints from these

organizations about our coverage. and we can all read the written testimony. that is what the -- host: and you can watch the entire hearing on c-span.org, we covered the entire thing. guest: it's worth doing. this is a rare glimpse at intelligence chiefs working in this open setting to share with the american public their sense posed by iran, and north korea in terms of their trajectories on the nuclear front, for example. host: why should the american people touch the -- trust the intelligence chiefs? traditionre is a long of the intelligence community giving their best nonpartisan advice to policymakers and saying over to you when it comes to figuring out the policies that flow from that. the intelligence community doesn't always get it right, their job is very difficult. they are asked to figure out things that foreign adversaries are trying to hide from us and others.

it they try their best, and is up to the leadership to keep that from politics. host: let's go to chip, in colorado, on the democrat line. caller: i want to remind folks that used to have a policy called a fairness doctrine. president reagan got rid of that , it was stated that if opinionated shows were on public airwaves that they had to offer amount ofll opposition points, that helped people stay on the same page. i started monitoring right wing radio in 1995 with the rush limbaugh show and hannity. and it has been said many times, club if look past this we had not gotten rid of the fairness doctrine.

it would have messed everything up. thank goodness reagan got rid of sayingt's what they were on the radio. ,hat led to shows like limbaugh hannity, and others. they have people brainwashed. all you need is a five dollar a.m. radio and a battery and you can listen to limbaugh forever. it's really just brainwashing, and they lead to trump getting elected. i just think we need to have something like the fairness doctrine to get out the information on public airwaves. host: was there ever concerned when you worked at the obama administration and counterterrorism about the influence of domestic actors and the effects they could have on dissidents and division within our country? caller: -- guest: there was a sense of a domestic component to terrorism. it's not just something that happens from abroad. host: not saying that rush

limbaugh is acting as a terrorist. guest: no, real terrorists out there. and there are those that consider whether they want to go down that road, whether they are so politically agitated that violence becomes an option. closedppens in these ecosystems that we have now, rather than what we had decades ago, is that if you are on that radicalization path, it's much easier to hear things that confirm where you are already headed. we have seen that with some folks who went down this path and thought pipe bomb's might be the answer to what they saw as a bad political situation. that's dangerous. brad, a will go to republican in minnesota. morning.ood this is an interesting conversation. i think a lot of people don't realize how our country is being

manipulated by the media. it starts way back in 1950 with operation mockingbird, and the young gentleman you have on probably has no idea what this is about. but our country has been manipulated by the media, and with operation mockingbird, that was the cia. they got koch. caught.here were at -- that's where were at. when i think about manipulation and people influencing an election, you think about sending paul begala to out netanyahu and they don't even think of it. they just think that's what we should be doing. the sad reality, i don't think your guest -- think like your guest, party first, that there's something wrong with me. no nothing is wrong with me. what's wrong is that he put the party first and i think that's what's so wrong with today's world. in the media is controlling the

minds of so many people -- and the media is controlling the minds of so many people. host: let's get a response. forced -- not a party first sort of guy. i've served in the obama administration and in the trump administration because it was important to me to see counterterrorism serve -- worked .gainst i would like to see national security done more and more outside of partisan politics, instead driven by intelligence and the intelligence community and their assessments. that should be the beginning of policy. host: matt, on the independent line in baltimore. caller: hello. thank you for c-span. i would like to ask mr. geltzer some questions. i'm 92 years old. a world war ii veteran.

i first voted for harry truman. i can't remember any election that there wasn't external influence trying to get me to vote one way or the other. i tended -- i'm a new yorker, you can tell from my accent. i was almost naturally a democrat until i went to ross perot. i would like to ask about a particular point that your previous caller had asked, how in activeyou involved influence peddling in the in rate -- in the israeli election for netanyahu? were you concerned? did you counter it? did you try to get it put away? and also the election in the , we tried to influence

that. it's more a case of the cop -- the pot calling the kettle black , if that's appropriate. host: ok. guest: from one new yorker to another i want to thank the caller for his service. he raises an important point. the digital era is not the advent of countries trying to sway foreign elections. it happened before, and the u.s. has been a part of that. i'm not sure that's a happy history. i think at times it has undermined fragile democracies and i think countries are not very good at pointing other countries domestically in the direction they may want to go. what my co-author and i propose in the pc mentioned before is to take that away, per -- bind their own hands, and decide that this is not a tool for russia or even the version we engage in, which i do think is different from russia, but it's worth

pulling back to be clear about where the line is. host: what is happening in venezuela and our role in venezuela? guest: it's difficult to know that, because it's difficult to figure out what is happening in venezuela. i have been wondering about this through this lens. we have this instinct as americans to see another country and trying to figure out where the path might look better for it. government could be urged on one path or the other. i have no problem with the united states supporting democracy and denouncing leaders that are not really allowing their countries to engage in free and fair elections. and the tough part is figuring out when that is happening versus when we are just choosing between two candidates between a democratic system. host: gary, a republican in kentucky. hello. caller: what i want to ask about, you know the mueller

investigation, it goes back with trump and wikileaks. that the server, the server from the d&c and -- dnc, and hillary, they were not examined by the fbi, they hired serverthat examined the and related this back to the fbi. so why didn't the fbi examine those servers so they know exactly if they were leaked by russia -- dnc, or that manipulated it? that's my question. host: are you familiar? guest: this is ground that has been covered. the investigation by the fbi as well as the inspector general's look at that investigation has been covered pretty extensively. but the comments get to an important point, we want to know

more about the 2016 election, at least as far as i'm concerned we want to know how foreign actors may have tried to influence this. the caller mentioned the investigation is ongoing. the sense that he must have learned things that will help us defend ourselves in the future seems strong. and there's a fight brewing now as to how much of the american public and the u.s. congress gets told by the special counsel. that's important to understand the president and any contacts campaign had. but it's also important as a matter of national security. host: rupert, in texas, a democrat. win an democrats can't election until they stop protecting each other. it's as simple as that. host: what do you mean by that? wrench withave a

bill clinton meeting on the tarmac. [indiscernible] back with aomes deal he needs to talk about --, or the american people won't believe it. host: ok, any thoughts about that? guest: i was actually heading in this direction, people want to know how the investigation wraps up. that's complicated. this is a criminal investigation, it was at one point a counterintelligence investigation. this is not usually something we think of as appropriate to open up to the country. that's part of the criticism of director comey when he was not charging hillary clinton, he publicly lambasted her. this has been going on and it's important to our country. we learned a lot from mueller's indictment already. but in a sense of key findings that have not made their way into those charges, i think people will be interested to

learn this. host: rachel, in tennessee, you are next. russia the whole narrative, from my point of view, is totally insulting. any major external influence on u.s. politics, it's israel, saudi arabia, the u.k. dishonestlly it's from our political establishment. there has been multiple documentaries with evidence from undercover reporters showing how aipac funneled money into different think tanks and campaigns. it's all on video. it's being totally ignored by our media. host: where did you see the

documentary? can you give us a name? was an the documentary undercover reporter from al , there, it's available are four parts and it shows the foundation for defensive democracy is working directly with the is rayleigh internal affairs to target not only americans, but college students. rachel's point, do our allies try to influence our democracy as well? whether it's a lobbying effort or otherwise? guest: there are other forms of influence, the caller pointed at them. and jake and i acknowledged that. there is a threat posed by this dense information campaign, we now see other countries replicating -- disinformation campaign. we now see other countries

replicating this. there are other forms of influence and we point out the way in which money is funneled into research, and trying to shift discourse and conversation, especially in washington through universities and think tanks. and those things are worth looking at. discourse and debate in the united states should be free from foreigners manipulating us and pointing us in directions. transparency may secure that, but there's something there that needs further work. on the independent line from ohio. caller: i think it's ridiculous that you think that the russians tricked me to vote for donald trump. i voted for him because the other candidates were just terrible candidates, especially hillary clinton. it's just untrustworthy. point, want to take your

is the intelligence community saying that this investigation that robert mueller is doing is looking into people getting tricked into voting for president trump? guest: i don't think so. that is something that some have tried to correlate between certain things at spreading online and polling, particularly in geographic areas, but that's not an answer i expect we will get from robert mueller. he's interested primarily in people breaking the law. he has found some, he has brought charges and he has convictions and guilty pleas. in whethernterested there's untoward collaboration and election interference than the actual impact on american voters. host: thank you for the conversation. guest: thank you for the opportunity. host: you can follow him on twitter. when we come back, a closer look at the e-verify system with david bier.

♪ over the last year, the world has seen what we always knew, no people on earth are so fearless or daring or deterred as americans. -- determined as americans. if there is a mountain, we climate. if there's a frontier we cross it. we take a challenge, it. if there's an opportunity, we sees it. it.ize let's begin by recognizing that the state of our union is strong because our people are strong. the state of the union, first postponed because of the government shutdown, will now take place on tuesday night. watch as president trump delivers his state of the union address from the house chamber, beginning at 9:00 on c-span,

followed by the democratic response from stacey abrams. live,ated the union, tuesday, at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c-span.org, or on the radio app. q&a, the case that brought down spiro agnew in 1973 with prosecuting attorneys -- with the prosecuting attorneys. indictelieved we could the vice president, we believed he was not immune while in office and his lawyers, among the positions they took, was that. that he could not be prosecuted because he had immunity. agnew did not want to go to jail, and he had a get out of jail free card. this is watergate. richard nixon was a walking dead man, politically speaking.

it was only a matter of time. everyone understood before he would be forced out of office, that would make spiro agnew, this vice president who we have under investigation, president. can you imagine how the country would react? president nixon, a crook, leaves office. vice president agnew, a crook, becomes president. sunday night on q and a. >> washington journal continues. immigration policy analyst from the cato institute, david bier, is here to talk about e-verify. this is a topic we get a lot of calls on. this is something people say needs to be on the table. what is going on with e-verify as the two sides try to avoid another government shutdown and come to a deal over border security. let's begin with a history.

you need to back up to 1986 eve ironfire -- e-verify came from. congress made it illegal for employers to hire people, and this is important, without documents proving their authorization to work. i 1996 it became clear to everyone that this requirement -- by 1996 it became clear to everyone this requirement had no effect on illegal hiring because people could easily get a fake id that would theoretically prove their authorization to work and employers could hire , unlessh no consequence there was an audit and everyone was fired. but they wouldn't be sanctioned, because they followed the procedures that were in place. in 1990 six congress had a choice, they could create a national id card, that everyone

would have to carry and they would have to go to the state department or the federal government in order to acquire it to work in the united states, or they could create what amounts to a national id registry, that includes everyone in the united states who is legally present in this country. that is really the route that congress went with. they created a pilot program that allowed employers to call up the federal government and asked, is this information that was provided to me by my employee matching what you have in your records? initially it was done by telephone, now it is done online. e-verify is a web-based portal that employers can put in the information of their employee, and that checks against with the federal government has either at the department of homeland security or the social security

administration. these checks are done for all americans, whether they are legal residents, or u.s. citizens. if there is a mismatch between what is in the federal government database and what has been submitted by the employer, then the system will issue a tentative nonconfirmation. and you as an employee are supposed to be notified that you have not been confirmed by the system. your employer is supposed to tell you that. and you have eight business days, a little less than a week -- a little less than two weeks to go and check in with the social security administration or department of homeland security and say hey, i'm a legal resident, here's my identification. at that point they either confirm you are not. -- you or not.

and the issues -- in the system issues a final nonconfirmation if you do not challenge or you failed to prove that you are here legally. morning have lines this for employers that use the e-verify system, we would like to hear from you on how it works and what your experience has been. as well as the democrats, republicans, and independents lines. you said an employer can call up, do they have to? guest: it depends, some employers are required to use e-verify. those are determined by what state you live in. there are state mandates, arizona was the first to mandate it for all employers. 20, now have some type of requirement for e-verify . mainly for government contractors and government agencies are required to use e-verify. jumpederal government

started the process in 2008 and 2009 by requiring federal contactors to use e-verify to qualify for contracts with the federal government. that really jumpstarted the program. before 2008, virtually no employers in the united states used the system voluntarily. then 2000 eight came, arizona required it as the first state to do so, and the federal contractor regulation came out. and they also required some private employers to use them. host: let's take a look at the numbers from 2006, from 2006 to 2018 the number of employers over 800,000.to the increase led to nearly 30 5 million e-verify checks in 2017 covering more than half of all of the jobs in the u.s.. is this a good number? what should the numbers be? guest: it depends on who you should ask. the census bureau has a

significantly higher number of hires, so it's really only a third according to the census bureau. it's hard to know exactly because we don't record every throughhrough -- hire the system now. if you look at the percentage of employers who are enrolled in of system, that's just 13% all employers in the united states. they are disproportionately employers, about 60% of employers in the united states employ less than 10 people, but a little more than 10% of e-verify employers have less than 10 employees. it is skewed towards the high-end employer, the small businesses are less likely to use e-verify than the ones that are working across state lines. many jobsites may mandate e-verify.

pete, in's hear from virginia, and independent. caller: good morning. i am more of an independent libertarian then a communist, socialist, democrat that once open borders. i lived in san diego, you could get false documents at a middle school or high school fair at the end of the year. the doorke closing after the horses got out of the barn. there were so many fake documents out there, the federal government and the employers could care less. back to this situation, i hope we talk about the yale finding about how there are three to four times as many illegal immigrants working in this , and finding jobs. jobs are out there, but they're being taken by people from the

rest of the world that has snuck into this country and overstayed their visas. immigration is number two on my list for things this country needs to take care of. host: ok. guest: most people in the economy right now are employed, unemployment is at near record lows. you're talking about more than 96% of people looking for a job last month finding a job. that includes u.s. citizens, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. the economy is growing, job growth is growing. and many of the jobs that americans are employed in actually depend on jobs done at the lower end by immigrant workers, whether they are in the country legally or illegally. the question for e-verify is whether e-verify has actually done much in terms of deterring illegal hiring.

if you look at the rate at which you have final nonconfirmation's, that you were determined ineligible to work and the employer wants to fire you. thathare of total queries resulted in a nonconfirmation declined from 5% to 1%. the workforce, the share of the workforce that is here illegally , is about 5%. when e-verify first came out it was about matching what we would expect. now it is declined by 80%. ist is a sign that e-verify not catching much of the problem in terms of illegal hiring. host: why wouldn't it? guest: the reason is the same as what went on before we had e-verify. people borrow their friends or thetives identities, and

information checks out according to the federal government. it matches the information provided a -- according to the employer. is not checking you, it is checking your information, and if the information matches, you will be approved, and that is what we have seen in states that have mandated it, employers that have used it, they thought, i used it and i will get a legal workforce, but the federal government will audit their records, physically check, ok, this person matching what we have, and it turns out, it is very easy to evade the e-verify system. host: these are the states that mandate e-verify for private employers. they have to use this system and these states. all employers in the lighter shaded scullers are in these

states. .emocrats call 202-748-8000 republicans call 202-748-8001. and independents, call 202-748-8002. and if you have lost your e-verify as an employer, your linus 202-748-8003 -- your line is 202-748-8002. rob is next. caller: i think your guest's previous comments, all that would mean our areas where the airfare -- where e-verify can be fooled. ifir system could be tweaked there are multiple uses of the same identification, but i hate to disappoint your previous caller. i'm not a communist. i'm a capitalist, but i don't want to disappoint any republicans out there, thinking democrats are somehow communist. but here is an idea for you.

congress should pass a law that requires all business liability insurers operating in the united states to provide an exclusion of coverage when it comes to worker's compensations in general liability, an exclusion of coverage for any non-documented employees. incidentident or occurs, involving a person, employers will not take the chance to hire someone who could wind up suing them when their -- when they are excluded coverage. host: what do you think? guest: you have to understand these workers are documented. the employer is checking documents. they may not the documents of

the employee, but they are so the employer is going through the so the employs going through the process of the federal government has established. [no audio] -- illegal employment. is e-verify the answer? we really have more than a decade of experience in arizona where there is a full mandate, and it hasn't solved the issue of illegal employment. they have done some of the things that have been suggested in terms of looking at multiple use of the same social security number. they have even included driver's license -- driver's information from the state, including the photo that is provided as part of the driver's licensed application, so there is an extensive amount of information in the database.

it really concerns a lot of privacy advocates of how much information is now part of this national registry, but the issue thely is, has this cured problem of illegal hiring? is there a better way? i would argue, there is a better way, and that better ways providing people an opportunity to get legal status in the united states, go through a process of getting right with the law, and once they get right with the law, they will be paying taxes on the books, going through the proper procedures, and that is really a way to deal with the illegal problem, that is good for americans, but also restores respect to the rule of law. host: in your report, you put together this graphic looking at wage gains before and after e-verify's mandate in arizona.

what are you saying here? guest: this is looking from the perspective of a person in mexico who is deciding to immigrate illegally from mexico. how much of a wage gain will they expect to get before or after the e-verify mandate? very slightly,e mainly for male workers, but they did not reduce nearly enough to make it any different -- to make any difference for the illegal alien's and on whether or not to immigrate to the united states illegally, and that is the point. if this is supposed to turn off the job magnet, which is tracking people to come illegally to the country, it hasn't reduced the value of immigrating illegally nearly to a point that it would make any

impact on someone's evaluation about whether or not to do that. the interesting thing about the ,rizona case study on this is while he did reduce the wages of illegal immigrants on average, actually, the number, the share of illegal workers, who were looking for work, and the employees in that state, actually increased because you had wages for the primary worker decline, and then you had the wife enter the labor force in order to make up the difference. so, you actually had more people being employed as a result of the e-verify mandate illegally then before it. so, it actually backfired in a way that many proponents of the idea did not expect. host: let's hear from samuel in georgia, a democrat. caller: yes. i am concerned about the

portrait industry. the construction industry, and the livestock because the construction should do 1099, so they use subcontractors. in 40 years and social services, no one could come in and verify this. the immigration authority could not get food stamps, or assistance, unless there was an anrgency -- unless there was emergency, so they are coming over the border and gathering up the funds. and 99 personfort of us who dedicate our lives to social services ensure that everybody qualifies for the benefits they receive. host: ok. guest: that is a great point. e-verify doesn't apply for

federal benefits or welfare benefits. there is a different system that verifies the legal status for people in that arena. this is really for employment, but the caller is absolutely correct that people who are applying for welfare benefits do need to go through that process. what he was saying with respect to contractors is an important point, and that is, contract -- is nottor relationship an employee relationship, so they would not be subject to the e-verify mandate. so, you don't have to run your plumber through e-verify in order to hire him. that is a contract relationship, not an employee relationship, so there are many people who are self-employed that are in the country illegally. you would not know that by checking the e-verify record. host: russell in massachusetts,

independent. caller: hi, how are you? host: we are good, russell, go ahead. is that i comment firmly believe, the e-verify is a very small part of it, but it is in the right direction. if we are going to start summer, it has got to be small. in the same aspect of it, i can take that immigration on the highest level has always been political. runningghly used to be a presidential campaign. just like health care. not to go off subject, but there are two subjects that will always be around. it makes up the majority of the presidential election. as a native american, i don't see any form of immigration -- if you look at the reality of

how we allow people in this country, and it doesn't make me better than anyone else, but as native american status, indigenous people have seen this immigration process has changed at the highest level. the employment part is why they are coming here because england, france, and germany have the same freedom we do. for immigration here. i can assure you, we have a lot of immigrants in massachusetts alone. we have a republican governor, charles baker, and a democratic mayor of boston, just shows you republicans and democrats could work together if they choose to work for the people. and they were sent there and ,orgot that they worked for us so the immigration status is broken on every level, but it has to be maintained. they are not just coming here

for the jobs. they are coming here for the welfare system. i don't deny them, but come the legal way. host: ok. guest: a lot to unpack their. -- unpack there. even if e-verify isn't working well, we might as well do it because it is something. the issue i would take to that to it is really harmful legal workers in a way that it is not reported. the number of workers, who are wrongfully erroneously targeted by the system, or these tentative, non-confirmations that they have to sort out with the federal government over weeks or months, even years, to figure out what the problem was, why did they not get -- then you have to prove there was an error when your information was put in. that can be a very costly process for the employer and employee.

they are losing wages, losing productivity. there were 58,000 of those last year alone. so, you're talking about a half a million more over a decade where americans, legal residence, are being hit with these erroneous, tentative non-confirmations. you are actually losing opportunity for a job, and the main reason for that is many employees -- employers will run you through the system and say, i don't want to deal with this tentative non-confirmation, so i will drop this application in the trash. and then you have another 10,000 or so of those every year. so, there are problems with the system that harm legal residents without any of these benefits that you hear about in terms of preventing illegal employment. with respect to other countries, if you look at germany, france, canada, these countries all

allow a rate of legal immigration far greater than what we allow as a share of our population in the united states. of course, the united states residentse illegal than the absolute number, but the size of our country is so much greater. for example, the united states allowed about a third of a percentage increase in its population due to legal immigration last year. compare that with canada, which was 2.5 times greater as a percentage of their population. so, there are other countries allowing a lot more legal immigration as a share of the population. we could allow more legal immigration, and that would reduce the incentive for people to come illegally. illegalshave 200,000 coming into our country at a cost of $15,000 per person.

that is about $3 billion more. our the numbers right? -- are those numbers right? guest: you can't just look at maybe the benefits. i am not sure how that number -- where that number came from, but there will always be some cost anytime you have a person in the country, they will impose some cost of the infrastructure of the country. will use some benefit somewhere along the line, and certainly, their children will end up in public schools and that is a real expense, but you have to also factor in the benefits that a child will grow up, they will work over the course of their life in the united states most likely, and they will be paying taxes throughout that time. according to a study on this issue, the second-generation, the children of immigrants, are the most disproportionately positive of any group of people

and the united states, so there are a lot of fiscal benefits in allowing google to immigrate to the united states -- to allowing people to immigrate into the united states. eligible for benefits or social security, even though they are paying social security taxes through their employment. their employers are paying their social security taxes into an account. citizen'ss a u.s. social security number, but they are paying into that account. so the benefits received by americans through their payments through social security accounts should be taken into consideration when we are talking about getting rid of immigrants and not letting them come in the future. host: let's talk to mary in louisiana, a republican. caller: hello, greta and david. good morning. ok, david, i want to make two

truths to you. first of all, the businesses that hire illegal immigrants, they do not care because they know that they are not going to get punished for doing it. ok? host: ok. caller: and greed has something to do with it. they don't have to worry about paying paid vacation, sick leave, ok? they don't have to worry about paying unemployment, insurance, ok? and they don't get no consequences behind it, it will continue. ,ext, now, the politicians republicans and democrats, they don't care because of the simple reason, when they run for office, either they are getting reelected, those businesses have found out all they got to do is put up enough money in that campaign, and then that is when

they can get away with it because our elected officials don't do anything about it because, hey, all they are looking for is the next election. host: mary, let me jump in. did you see the news reports that president trump's organization, golf clubs, did not use the e-verify system when it was hiring workers for its various golf resorts? caller: let me tell you about that. donald trump is the ceo. donald trump did not personally hire those people. they were people working for him that did that. i am 73 years old. it was the people under him that did that. sure all ofm pretty the big corporations he owns, he doesn't go around and hire those people who do cleaning and stuff

like that. host: ok. what about businesses not caring? caller: well, i think businesses want more workers. i think that is the fact of the economy. her point about the world running on self interests, i agree with that wholeheartedly. and i look at the system, and i look at the reality of the world, which is, people run on self interests, whether they are politicians, private businesses, we are all in this to make the best life we can. reality, thet question is, how do we best deal with the problem of illegal immigration, people crossing the border illegally, which we don't want to see happening? there are two different approaches, one is totally contrary to self-interest, to the politician to the employer, or you try to align self interests with the law, and that

is where the illegal immigration problem begins, allowing that illegal pathway, and that is really the answer to the problem, not these types of proposals that the caller correctly identifies are totally contrary to the self interests of everyone in the system. independents an from lakeland, florida. good morning. caller: good morning, greta. this is history, folks. america, historically, has benefited from unscrupulous labor. let's use that term. and that is what it does. we have lost on the books -- we laws on the books that they do not enforce. i don't even like that word, e-verify.

like we have a war on drugs, we need a war on jobs, and we need someone going into enforce the law. the losses if you hire someone pergal, you can get fined illegal person, and if you get caught again, you lose your business license. billion ofr 30 whatever the illegals that are here, and they keep coming in record numbers. how come i have not seen one business person lose their license? i am not see one person in the headlines being fined. ? go into your home and eat all of your cheese, and your responses, oh no, let me plug up this hole with a little patch. well,, since tells you, -- well, common sense to you to get the cheese off the floor. guest: arizona does have what they call the business guest and

multi-. if you get -- business guest penalty. hiringget caught twice illegals, they will shut you down completely. if you want to know why that hasn't almost happened at all in that state, the reason is what the last caller said. it is self interest. no one wants to shut down american businesses because that will result in not just the hiring of illegal workers, but all the american workers who are employed there as well, and how is a good for the economy, or for the state? fines andk at enforcements, south carolina issues a lot of fines for missed e-verify checks. it doesn't mean that the employer hired someone illegally, it just means they missed the check, so you are imposing new costs on employers are hiring as part of the hiring process. that is a regulation on business

, and a regulation on hiring, and the more you increase the risk of hiring, the more, the less hiring will go on -- the less hiring will go on, so if you want the best answer to this problem, you want to go with a free market direction, which is less employees/employers match up on their own, increase the cost of hiring overall, and that will result in more hiring. host: who runs the e-verify system? caller: the agency within the department of homeland security called u.s. citizenship. enforcements' enforce the system and audit employers who use the system, and ones who do not use the system. the trump administration has done the most audits of any administration so far. we get to see whether that will result in no more illegal hiring, but the obama

administration set records before the trump administration now broke them, and we have not seen any change in the number of immigrant workers in the labor declines, butght nothing really substantial in terms of turning off that job magnet. host: next caller in tennessee. a democrat. caller: good morning. it seems to me we are putting a lot of obstacles in our own way. this is america, and why is it that e-verify would not work as well as a passport? recognition,ial biological factors put into the e-verify document? or is it a lack of political formats that precludes this kind of arrangement in america, where we can do everything else? host: david bier? caller: well, we are

incorporating photo id's from the state level. really, the problem with biometric identification, fingerprints in this sort of thing is that it creates backlash among the american people. want to go to the federal government in register my fingerprint. i'm not a criminal, so stop treating the asset. cap point when you are really are -- i'm not a criminal, so such. treating me as when you are at that point, they are concerned about what is next for this program? right now, it is being used to monitor hiring and monitor gun purchases next? many gun groups are very concerned about that actually happening because gun control is always on the table, and using biometric identification processes would allow for the creation of a record of every single gun purchase in the united states with

identification of that individual. that is really what happens now through the e-verify program. you can have a record of a random employer who has done a check on you, where it was, and who did the check. this is the concern from the privacy standpoint about having a national id, biometric system that can be used by really anyone to check out who you are, and look at your history. host: what is the flow of migration into the high-stakes, illegal migration every year? catof they were to do what 's advocate and have a pathway to citizenship for people entering the u.s., with that number increased? caller: if you look at the net number of people, the number of illegal immigrants who entered, as well as a number who left, minus the number who died, we have seen a net decline of one million people sense 2007 -- one

million people since 2007. a large number went back to mexico when the economy crashed. even in the last couple of years, we have seen a decline of 300,000 from 2014 the 2016 decline in the population. so, it is between 11 -- 11 million and 12 million, but the trend are largely the same. host: in total? guest: total living here. the number who is entering minus the number of meeting. the number entering is not known precisely, but you're talking about a couple hundred thousand people who enter, and a couple hundred thousand, a little bit more, who leave every year. in newe will go to mike york, and he independent. caller: yes, i have a question regarding the tax consequences.

if you illegals are coming in, are they not using names or information of current employees? how would a w-2 work? is no ban on having multiple jobs. there is nothing preventing you from being employed at multiple obviously,or -- but if it is the same employer, it would look odd to have the same employee employed multiple times by the same employer, so you would have to use the identification of someone who is probably not employed at that worker's site or business, which is generally the case. the employer is actually paying taxes. they are paying into the social security system. they are doing withholding and all the rest they are required to do.

they don't realize or don't care that the person is not exactly who they say they are. host: lynette, clearly, california, good morning to you. caller: good morning. i am very nervous. please excuse me. [laughter] caller: i do this every time i call. [laughter] caller: e-verify is no longer useful. it is obsolete. this is what the illegals are doing in california. they come here, they have their babies, that is their little american citizen, and then, that little baby gets a social security card, so that baby is entitled to welfare. taking food, housing, clothing, schools, then the parents can use your social security number to get a job. so, that is growing us here. usso, that is just screwing right in left. host: and you know that is happening? caller: oh yes.

guest: i completely agree with the caller on the point about using the child's social security number. there is actually nothing preventing that from happening, you know? you can use that social security number. double check out what the government databases. -- that would check out with the government databases. host: but would not state how old the person is -- but wouldn't that state health old the person is? guest: well, you would have to verify in the system that the person is of working age. you could have a child that is 16 or 17, and could be using their authorization. in terms of the welfare costs, like i said before, the poverty level among these illegal immigrants and they united states is quite high -- these illegal immigrants in the united states is quite high, and use benefits more than others. adulthood, they

are high achievers, so the rate at which their poverty goes down, actually to a level below that of the entire u.s.-born population. like i said before, the national academy of sciences study on the fiscal impact of immigration shows that the second generation of immigrants are fiscally-positive of any generation. host: we will go to tom in new york, our last caller, an independent. caller: thank you very much. thank you for your time. i want to tell you that your guest is truly uninformed. i am shocked that the way you are talking in the way your treating people calling in. destroyed myration company. i had 25 tax paying citizens working for me. they were paying their taxes and doing their job. in one night, my entire company

was relieved of their jobs and told that the people who were going to take their jobs will be doing their jobs and next day. my company was put out of business. my guy did not have a job -- my guys did not have a job anymore. they were not able to feed their kids. who is monitoring this show? i thought this was america. this is nonsense. was: tom, where these jobs, your company -- were the jobs lost to people in the country illegally, or lost to people overseas? caller: they were not allowed to be in this country. 25 american citizens lost their jobs. host: ok. guest: i would ask the caller hubby knows whether these people were american citizens are not? did he go through the e-verify process?

did he check their identification himself? if so, why did he hire them? question i wish ,he caller could answer because you know, just profiling people based on the fact they speak looksh, or you know, non-white, that does not mean they are in the country illegally. at the end of the day, the bottom line is this -- unemployment -- the unemployment rate in the u.s. is a near all-time low. 96% of everyone wanted a job last month, found a job. that means that you have illegal workers finding jobs and american workers are finding jobs. if you look at the market overall, there is always going to be exceptions, always instances where things don't work out exactly right, but overall, you have illegal workers, these low-skilled

immigrants doing jobs that most americans don't want to do. they do them in agriculture, construction, and that is providing job opportunities at higher wage levels for oversight and management. host: let me add to the conversation because the unemployment rate came out for january and it is sad for percent for january, and jobs added were 304,000. what do you make of those numbers? guest: like i said, 96% of those looking for a job found one. the economy is growing in need workers in this country, and more workers really adds to economic growth. if you limit the number of workers in your economy and put a hard cap on that, you are putting a hard cap on economic growth. economic growth is the thing we need if you want to reduce that deficit, want to reduce the debt , you need to have a growing economy, and the faster we can

grow that economy, the more we can reduce that debt and deficit. host: david bier's immigration policy analyst with the cato institute. you can go online or follow them on twitter. thank you of the conversation. we are going to take a break and when we come back, we will continue talking with you about any public policy debate happening today. those -- there are the numbers on your screen, so start dialing in. our c-span's cities tour continues as we travel to california to future the city's history and literary life. [video clip] located in central california is halfway between san diego and the oregon border. we are right in the middle where

it is two hours to the beach and an hour and a half, two hours from the mountains, so we are in a perfect location in the valley. on a good day, you see the mountains and a lot of agriculture. walnuts, pecans, origins, -- oranges, citrus, we are the forest county in the nation jury products, so as a result of that, we have a lot of industry here that is based on agricultural needs. well, the biggest problem that we face today is a homeless issue, which if you spend that much time in california at all, you know that is a huge challenge. homeless in the country are in california somewhere. again, because we have such a great climate, a lot of them like to live in this area. i have lived here all my life, and having seen the city of

visalia when it was 7000 people, you could get anywhere you wanted on a bicycle in 10 minutes. is at it grow at where it 136,000, one of the things i think that is been important that our forefathers and city officials and counsel previous to when i was on the council has said, we have to have growth and we have to grow sensibly. i have been fortunate because i have watched this happen over periods of time. the fact that they said long ago how it was going to be the center of our community, and we have grown out from that part. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back from happening in washington today, here are the headlines from cnn. the secretary of state, mike pompeo, announces suspension of

nuclear arms treaty with russia. here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> for years, russia has violated the terms of the intermediate missile range treaty without remorse. today, it remains in a breach of to launch aties midrange missile. violation, wee are almost that for almost six years, the u.s. has gone to tremendous length to preserve this agreement and to ensure security for our people, allies, and partners. we have raised russia's non-compliance with their officials more than 30 times. yet, russia continues to deny dismissal system violates the treaty. russia's violation puts many of europeans and americans at greater risk.

it aims to put the u.s. at a military disadvantage. and it undercuts the chances of using our bilateral relation to -- bilateral relationship in a better direction. when security is openly threatened, we must respond and we did that last december when the united states, with strong support from all of our nato allies, formally declared russia in violation of the treaty. poll, we would suspend our obligations under that treaty. the provider russia an ample window of time to mend its ways for russia to honor its commitment, and tomorrow, that time runs out. russiahas returned -- has refused to become compliant over these 60 days. the united states will suspend its obligations under the treaty

effective february 2. host: mike pompeo this morning on the nuclear arms treaty with russia. also happening in washington today, later on, conversational puerto rico's economy and infrastructure after hurricane maria devastated the island. later, pentagon officials will be discussing the 2019 missile-defense review at an d.c. at washington, 1:00 p.m., and live coverage will be on c-span, so all of the issues on the table this morning as we take you to the top of the hour. we will go to bob first in arlington, texas. what is on your mind? caller: good morning, greta. thank you for c-span. i have two points. the first is about the wall.

it is not about the wall, it is about sanctuary cities. it -- isosi is a puff a puppet of gavin newsom, the new governor of california. on january 7, he will explain his role as being a statuary city. all of those democrats who love sanctuary cities, sanctuary -- they need the scarlet letter tattoo to therefore heads saying they support sanctuary cities. should be ashamed of themselves to support this non-american, unpatriotic adventure -- venture. secondly, the social security other databases that pop

up the information with a social security number being used by multiple people. it is pretty easy to check that out if they would just get on that. the big point i want to make is the sanctuary cities. host: bob. nancy poli see yesterday -- nancy pelosi yesterday held a news conference about the ongoing negotiations over border security funding and immigration. [video clip] [indiscernible] >> if they come out with a bipartisan consensus, of course. >> will it include border wall money they'll? money go?wall >> there will be no border wall money in the legislation. however, they have some suggestions about certain technology,here

some infrastructure, ports of entry, leaving more ports of entry, that is part of the negotiation. it is not a negotiation for the president. what did he say today? it does not matter what congress does. i knew he wanted it all to himself. oh really? president wants to have congress be completely irrelevant to help to meet -- to help to meet the needs of the american people. let them work their will. i'm the appropriator. intelligence and appropriations. they know their limitations in terms of financial resources, and they have to choose the best way to use that money. host: and there are 17

, democrats,s republicans, house, and senate trying to negotiate the deal to avoid another government shutdown. "the washington times" quotes republican part of that group, saying he is one of the 17 appropriators who are trying to strike a deal on the 2019 homeland security deal -- security bill. lawmakers expect six other spending bills that will be quickly finalized. he said its that would be easier to go big and went with the debt ceiling and if we dealt with spending caps, that might be something more laudable. those negotiations continuing to happen with staff over the weekend and into next week. marcia in ohio, hello, marcia. caller: hello, good morning.

i just wanted to mention that trump's second pardon was from someone in jail for hiring illegals. and he pardoned him. i thought that was kind of ironic. in california, a republican. what is on your mind? caller: good morning, greta, and everyone. i wanted to call in because the last guest concluded, saying illegals will do the jobs that americans won't do. and whenever i hear that, my blood boils because it is just another doublespeak for saying, we are going to exploit the illegal aliens. i live in a farming town, and you go around the county, and you will see groups of farm laborers. you cannot break into that group of farm laborers. it is a closed shop. every little group is from a certain locale in south america or mexico, so when they lose

somebody, they will go in and pull somebody from up there. you cannot break into the farm workers. myth.at is a total it is just a way of saying, we're going to exploit the illegal immigrants. i would like to say one thing about the wall. the reason i like the wall is because it is passive. you don't have people with guns pointing at each other, and i am fearing the next thing will be a huge shootout at the border. and i think a wall would prevent that, and so, it will keep deteriorating and deteriorating and deteriorating until nancy horse,gets off her high and starts listening to everybody, and coming up with solutions. host: the president responded yesterday to the speaker saying, there are other kinds of barriers. [video clip] pres. trump: she is just playing games. if there is no one, it doesn't work.

and we are building the wall right now and a lot of people don't know that. we have a lot of this under construction. -- we are finishing up the design on several areas, the most important areas like the rio grande and other areas, and are building a lot of wall. i am not waiting for this committee. i told a lot of people, i don't expect much coming out of the committee because i keep your in the words, we will give you what you want, but not the wall. if you don't have a wall, it doesn't work. we have caravans coming from honduras right now who we give a lot of money to, which is stopping, by the way, but we pay hundreds of millions of dollars to guatemala, honduras, and el salvador. and then they have caravans leaving their country coming up here. and by the way, if you go to tijuana, and you take down that

wall, you will have so many people coming into our country that nancy pelosi will be bidding for a wall. host: we will go to joe in west virginia. joe, good morning. caller: good morning. first of all, thank you for c-span, and thank you for getting people a chance to speak to america to see how we feel. i used to be a republican. now, i am a democrat, and i really don't know what to do. it is apparent that neither party wants to resolve this issue of immigration. people,parent that working men and women, did not vote for donald trump. they voted against hillary clinton. and the clinton and obama policies. , aske out here in america

those in west virginia what donald trump has done for them and they will say absolutely nothing. it is a state that carried the industrial revolution off its back, and look what has happened to us. we are at the bottom of every category in america, and there is no future for us. i don't know what we are going to do, but we don't need a wall. we need some barriers. we need the drugs to stop from coming in, but more than anything, what the people of america need, is jobs. our citizens need to be re-educated for the new jobs. there are millions of jobs in america now that our people cannot even fill, and there is no opportunity, and no federal program on a consistent basis, to get people, who have lost their jobs, to get them to a place where they can go to school, where they has

transportation -- where they have transportation. that is what america needs. host: ok, joe. huffington post has this website, theoth hearing on trump's tax returns, and it's in the secrecy of his tax returns will be the subject next week. members in the house of representatives says they have had the power to request his tax forms this year, but they hesitated to build a public case for disclosure, the oversight panel will examine the authority to obtain the president's returns at a february 7 hearing. he was the first major candidate in years to not release his tax for ferns -- not release his tax returns. . good morning, wayne. caller: it is almost like

watching fox tv for people to call in, and just give me a chance here, please. this man has lied. who is going to pay for the wall? mexico. what is going on? see what is going on here. i want a strong border. i don't want drugs coming in. i'm a democrat. nancy pelosi don't care. can i say this, don't take it the wrong way? tv,s like watching fox people calling in. watch fox all day long, day in and day out, and i got to say it. host: some callers might say msnbc.n hear csn bce -- caller: that is true.

greta, all i am trying to say is, when somebody arrives, and so many times, mexico was going to pay for the wall, who are you going to believe? you know what i mean? you are one of the best. you and john, but forget pedro. [laughter] host: wayne, we all do our best. [laughter] host: lisa in las vegas. hi, lisa. caller: immigration is an issue for trump, political stunt. you guys aired the appropriation committee yesterday. -- if people got up earlier, they could have watched the common sense discussion of how to provide security at our borders. the wall cannot be built in most places. the wall will take years to build, and before it can being

start being built, you will have becausef the yin yang people own property there, and what is president trump complaining about because he says he is already building a wall. and the one building the metal thing is a russian oligarchs that has the aluminum company. -- they saved hundreds of millions of dollars. about the is talking 17 lawmakers i got together for the first day of negotiations, and delivered opening statements, and we covered it on c-span. you can go to c-span.org and watch it there. floorng on the senate about one of the issues, and that is abortion. [video clip] >> this place fancies itself as but weatest -- body,

would be ignoring ourselves if we ignored the biggest debate happening in america over the last 36 hours. official, thected governor one of the 50 states, has been defending a practice that is morally repugnant. the governor of virginia has been defending a practice that is repugnant to civilized people across the entire world. here is one of the ugly nuggets from ralph northam, the governor of virginia, quote "if the mother is in labor, the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable and be resuscitated if that is what the mother and family desired. and then, a discussion would ensue between the physician and the mother." let's be really clear about what we are talking about here. we are talking about fourth trimester abortion, or what anyone in the normal world calls

infanticide, and the governor has been defending this, and then double down and say, he wants to defend this practice, which is infanticide. we are talking about killing a baby that has been born. we are not talking about some euphemism or a clump of cells. we are talking about a little baby girl who has been born and is on a table in a hospital or a medical facility, and then and decision or debate would be had on whether or not you could kill that little baby. we are talking about the most foldable among us and we have a public official in america out there defending a practice. this is infanticide we're talking about in this should be so far, beyond any political consideration. we're talking about a little dignity, we'reth talking about a tiny life that has done nothing wrong to

warrant being left to die, cold and alone, on a table. everyone in the senate ought to be able to say unequivocally that killing that little baby is wrong. it doesn't take any political courage. and if you cannot say that, if there is a member of this body that cannot say that, there may be lots of work you can do in the world, but you should not be here. you should get the heck out of any calling in public life to care about the most horrible among us. host: ben sasse is calling for an abortion survival bill and to debate on the measure next week. political reporting this morning and president trump plans to throw the spotlight on abortion in his state of the union address this tuesday coming up. include a warmht gesture to his former nemesis. the state of the union is live on tuesday. the president's remarks begin

around 9:00 eastern time and are dealt coverage will start about 8:00 p.m. on c-span, c-span.org, or you can listen all along with the free c-span radio app. --re is also this is storing there is a historian that two georgia democrats plan to skip the president's state of the union address. they confirmed to the hills yesterday that they will not be in attendance on february 5. some democrats, who will be there have decided to make, to invite justices that would send a political message -- to invite guests that would send a political message, as they invite to the state of the union, and there were opposed -- and they report that the democrats are sending a political message with their guests. rico who willo

attend the speech of jimmy gomez. and another representative from guatemala who worked at trump's property will be attending as a guest of bonnie watson coleman. he said freshman representatives jennifer wexton has invited linda mcrae who works at the traffic control center and was furloughed during the recent shutdown. and senator bob casey will bring a transportation agent from pittsburgh international airport. congressman tim ryan has invited dave green, president of the uaw -- which2 with represents workers in ohio. something now lawmakers will be making a statement tuesday's state of the union address wearing white, a nod to the women's suffrage movement. our coverage beginning at 8:00 eastern time with the president's remarks expected

around 9:00 p.m. eastern time. let's go to joseph, a republican. good morning. caller: hello, nice to talk to you. comment on the abortion debate that is going on right now. i have two daughters of my own. it literally brought tears to my eyes when he started talking about his baby being born, and then they decide whether it lives are not. that is crazy. anybody that is for that needs to reevaluate some things in their lives because i felt my daughter kick in the womb, and they are alive. theyen these people say are not viable or this or that, that is not even the argument anymore. the argument now is, it is a woman's right to choose, which i completely understand. i am not a woman, so i don't

know all of the ins and outs of that, but what i do now is that that baby is a female as well, and who was sticking up for that baby? nobody. so how can they in one breath choose,en's right to but what about that female's right to choose? she does not have a right at all. it is just that said a when parents all over -- it is just upsetting when parents all over this country see that who would literally die for their children. host: joseph in ohio. joe in north carolina. we will try to get in a couple more phone calls here. caller: i would like to look at this immigration matter by looking at a place that is nowhere near our borders or southern states. raleigh, north carolina, the fastest-growing area in the southeast, where

homebuilders, roofers, painters have, for the last 25 or 30 years, brought in people that we do not know, who we do not know are documented or undocumented, mainly spanish speaking to fill every job they could so they did not have to pay blacks or labor associated people good wages. these people have balkanized whole businesses. there is a japanese restaurant chain in the area. in the restaurant area where they make japanese high bocce --hibachi foods. not one of the people working the cash registers or cooking are lack or white. th