people are strong. [applause] >> the state of the union, first because of the government shut down when not take place tuesday night for me president trump delivers his state of the union address live from the house chamber beginning at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span followed by the democratic response by former georgia gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams. the state of the union live tuesday at nine eastern on c-span, c-span.org, or listen with the free c-span radio app. host: each week in this segment "washington journal" we take a look at how your money works. this week, we focus on state government and the topic of teacher pay. joining us is darell burnette at education week.

he offered a recent story about education spending. it has been on the rise, but that hasn't necessarily translated into higher salaries for teachers. why is that? guest: especially at the state level governors are quick to say , we want to give money to districts to give teachers pay raises. but what actually is happening is districts both superintendents, school board members, and unions are in charge of how the money gets disbursed. what ends up happening is a lot of districts have other priorities they want to pay for, such as reducing class sizes, maybe purchasing laptop computers, they would rather spend rather than give teachers pay raises. it's a very expensive cost over with the compounding effect over years. unless they are getting hundreds of millions of dollars more, it's a difficult task. host: want to talk about some of those. some numbers to start off, states spend on education.

this is from 2016 a 2017 school year. the numbers from the national education association. the average teacher salary is about $59,660. higher in some states. new york is about $82,000 year. california is $79,000 year. in west virginia, the average public school teacher's salary is $45,000 per year. mississippi, $42,000, almost $43,000 a year. we talked quite a bit about some of the protests involving teacher pay around the country. remind us of some of the big ones in recent weeks. guest: some of the big los ones, angeles, denver, last year we had statewide protests in west virginia, oklahoma, arizona. these protests, which are getting a lot of parental support, can shut down schools for a week, week and a half a time. that causes problems for

parents, etc. but i the pressure is effective. a lot of governors say we want to give you some more money. the governors will say we will give more money, but what happens is they gave pay raises for teachers. arizona, washington state, they gave billion dollar pay raises for teachers. what ended up happening is some teachers got 5% pay raises. some got 18% raises. in tacoma, washington, they got 0% pay raises. host: focus on arizona and what happened and why. guest: there was a week and a half strike. teachers were upset about the low pay. we talked about beverages, but we have talked to teachers there that are making $30,000 a year. very low pay. they have a huge teacher shortage there, too. the governor said he wants to cut taxes. he did not want to give teachers a raise.

after a lot of pressure, he said ok, i will give teachers a 20% pay raise by 2020. arizona and the vast majority of districts decide to spend money. it went into general funds. when it went to negotiations, some districts said we will give that money to you guys. we will give you a 10% pay rise -- pay raise, which the governors that would be an average this year. districts said they want the custodians to get a pay raise or we want to hire more teachers. all of these competing pressures for districts. some teachers ended up getting very little pay raise. teachers there are still upset. they are still threatening to strike this year if there is not going to be more money given to the districts. a lot of people are saying it that not address what is at the crux of the problems, a widespread teachers shortage, especially in rural areas. host: we want to hear what is

happening in your state, you're part of the country as we focus on teacher pay in this "your "washingtonnt journal." the phone lines are little bit different. if you are a teacher, (202) 748-8000 is the number. school administrators, (202) 784-8001. parents, (202) 748-8002. or just call us on our all others line, 202-748-8003. we want to hear from you as we have this conversation. we are talking with darell .- with daarel burnette you want to talk to some of these superintendence why the money doesn't get to teachers to increase their pay. talk about the idea of backfilling positions. guest: it was not long ago, 10 years ago, during the recession, school districts were affected probably the most.

they froze hiring. they laid off all kinds of secretaries, janitors. folks,id off i.t. central staff. a lot of districts laid off teachers. it was a pretty devastating several years for districts. so what is happening is now the states have surpluses, they are starting to provide schools with money. still not pre-recession levels, but districts are trying to back fill all the positions they laid off. instead of giving an across-the-board pay raise, they are trying to build back to the they had before the recession. i talked to districts that there is only one or two people in a central office. there is only one person or zero people collecting data. one of the things interesting about a teacher strike a lot of , teachers are saying the protests, especially in l.a. in and arizona and oklahoma, not only do we want better pay for

teachers, but we also want to hire more nurses, more school psychologists, more speech pathologists. all the people that parents are saying are crucial to make schools the effect of that they have been historically. host: another competing pressure point you talk about is the obligation that school districts teachers pensions and other benefits. can you talk through those? guest: states right now, there is a $516 billion pension debt. these are promises they made to teachers, once you retire, we will give you certain benefits. it's one of the reasons why teachers get into the teaching business. they call it the social contract. that pension that is coming home to roost right now. districts are having to pay down this debt to avoid bankruptcy. what we saw in california, the state has been giving billions

of dollars, some of the largest increases in the entire country the last two years, but they also told districts you need to pay down these pension costs. went districts are deciding whether or not to give pay raises or pension costs i would , rather go bankrupt than satisfy teachers who are needed to pay raise. host: let's hear from some teachers. sue is in albuquerque, new mexico. good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate your guest today. i am a music teacher. private at a fancy school in south florida. the problem with private schools was the parents called the shots. when i moved back to new mexico, i could not get hired in a public school. when i wanted to get recertified, it started at $32,000 a year. what would be the point of that? it is not enough money. i think we really need to invest in education, and betsy devos needs to go. host: daarel burnette? caller: it is interesting that

she says new mexico. new mexico is one of the 17 states that has a pay scale. the new governor is proposing a large increase. what a lot of folks are saying will not fix a teacher shortage in new mexico. this is a huge problem that districts are having. i talked to superintendents that are losing applicants to walmart, the local public industry because we cannot compete. we can't give the sorts of salaries to compete with the private industry here. what ends up happening is the districts are having to decide if we lower our requirements to have a teacher or if we sweeten the pot for teachers. as a lot of callers will attest, teaching is not easy. new mexico, there are some districts where i have talked to them driving the bus, they

are teaching, they are the principal, they are collecting the data. there is a lot of pressure on teachers and administrators and they do not getting paid what a comfortable citizen would say i would take that job. host: a statewide pay scale in new mexico is unique? guest: very unique. 17 states actually do this. it's a staple of american education. it is one of the unique things that we have versus other western countries. we think that those decisions should be made locally. because of that, we have given a lot of power to local school boards and superintendents to make decisions on how they spend their money. so the difference between when we made those decisions in the early days of america when we education is a local decision. the difference today, states for spending a large portion of education dollars. they are spending 45%, 46%, they and in some states they are paying for the vast majority of

education costs. governors and legislators are providing the cost for education, and local officials are making the decisions on how the money is spent. this is causing a lot of tension between local and state officials. host: another teacher, joe, is in indianapolis. good morning. caller: yes, good morning. a comment. i taught in the indianapolis public school system. going back 20 years ago. i left. i am retired now. public school system. the teachers unions are destroying the livelihood of a teacher. most of these students now they , couldn't tell you what a noun or a verb or adverb. there are significant issues you could see on college campuses. peoplell about the 's power.

host: you are going in and out. guest: indiana, the governor during his state of the state address this year said he is going to pay down the pension debt of the district. i'm going to spend $150 million to pay down the pension debt. but he reminded citizens, i do not have the power to actually raise teachers's pay. indianapolis, teachers have been threatening to strike across the state. a lot teachers in rural indiana averaged the top of the pay scale and still cannot afford to pay the rent. he specifically directed school more members and said, please use this money to provide teacher pay. all teachers should be able to get a $1200 pay increase with this money. are they going to do that next year? we don't know. this is one of the frustrations that indiana teachers are having. host: want to hear your thoughts on this tweet from an individual as we have this discussion.

should be linked to a test coming in the semester and going out. some students have limited english language skills. that determines their success in business leadership. this is a proposal in texas where the lieutenant governor wants to link pay increase to test scores. the problem with that, they are way too dependent on tests to determine the success of schools. but also the teachers who wind up getting pay raises when you link pay to test scores, we've seen this across the nation, the teachers aren't wealthier school districts. these are schools in which there is not concentrated poverty. they are not a significant number of english language learners. they are not a significant number of kids coming into school tired, etc. those teachers are getting pay raises where in reality, where

as states no where there are , teachers shortages in urban and rural areas, it's very hard to recruit and retain teachers. host: edward is a parent in ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: doing well. i have a question concerning teacher retentions. do the teachers contribute money toward their retirement system? the other question concerning pensions, are they completely funded? or are they like some businesses in years gone by unfunded liabilities? when the company goes belly up, the government pays and attention goes belly up? guest: this depends on which state or district you are in if as to whether or not teachers

are contributing. as we've reported several times, these pension funds, it's the third rail of education. west virginia, which is where they had a statewide strike last year, that was specifically over pensions. the straight -kentucky, i'm sor. the state tried to change the dynamic of the system and get teachers to contribute more. tried to change exactly what the problems were. the teachers were so upset about this that they stopped going to school. basically stopped working. this is the third rail. a lot of people don't want to touch pensions. they know this could potentially drive the state into insolvency. host: education week is where daarel burnette works. you can find his reporting there. sheila is waiting into,,

inhington, that is waiting -- is waiting in tacoma, washington a teacher. , caller: i am a preschool teacher. i do it for the love, not for the money. a lot of them can't read. when i was going to school, they they need to go back to the old way where they do it on paper and pen. because they complain about it. it comes from the homeowners. when you own a home. host: what do you mean by that? caller: it comes from people that own homes. that's what i am saying. they do funding and they get paper and stuff. they don't bring that up. i live in tacoma, washington. i was 18, and i'm 63 now. i am very involved in the community. guest: another interesting state. washington state was in a years long legal lawsuit with the state supreme court over whether

the state or local officials should be paying for education costs. the state got rid of the pay scale. the governor contributed $1 billion more to schools last year. and said this money is for teacher pay, but he it in the district general fund. the districts in that state said we can give you pay over the next three years. the next four years. there are some districts in seattle that were able to get huge double-digit pay increases. washington, the district said no and they tried to say we will give you a smaller increase than what you the teachers are demanding. the teachers went on strike and delayed the start of school. for a day or two i think. one of the things that happened in washington which was fascinating was the teachers unions sent out a press release to all the teachers in the state saying you can get a 30% raise this year.

raise. host: you ok with that? guest: not only would it be ok with that, but i would recalibrate my budget. i would know i can afford this. i might think of having kids next year, etc. what is happening is the districts said we cannot afford this. when it came to negotiations, the district said we will give you a 10% raise, 5% raise, which upset the teachers even more. i think you'll see a lot of attention in the coming months as the states are giving $200 million more, but those are one-time funds. they are not recoverable or not occurring for several years for several years. they are not recurring is what i am trying to say. districts are saying i will put that in my savings account and buy laptops and for the student. host: let's talk wisconsin. stephen is in racine. good morning. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. very good conversation. i just have a question for you folks. is there any data available on the benefit expense? i think we are talking about wages here, which is what i bring home at the end of the weak or biweekly. what about my benefit expenses? and increase in benefit expenses for these individuals? guest: yes. this is one of the things that's i'm fascinated with. i went to one of the protests in arizona. a lot of teachers were saying we will give you a $2000 raise this year. the districts are telling us we will give you a $2000 raise this year. you are going to have to pay $1000 more for your health care. one of the things districts are doing it, they are asking teachers to chip in on their health care costs. effectively saying i actually got no raise because they paid i'm paying as much to my benefits as they said i would get in a raise. health care costs are something

teachers are burdened by an trying to shoulder the burden on teachers. a lot are saying that is not really fair. host: shelley is a school administrator in florida. what kind of school? hbcu.: an it's a university here with florida state. it's a teaching college. trying to prepare methodology for future teachers. florida is ground zero for this issue. back about 20 years ago, the republican party took over the state. they instituted a testing accountability grading system. jeb bush. this was done at the behest of the koch brothers. and a legislative council lobby that then carried this forward this grading of schools, a, b, c, d, then f, where funding was

tied to testing. on teachers and on school districts. most of the educational funding for our local school districts throughout this entire nation come from property taxes. i think the lady was trying to say that but was not here when she was speaking of in washington. we have basically a 10% federal funding. we also have an issue here when we had a segregated school system in america. at one time, and it was not until the 1970's that changed, basically came to fruition where we were funding private segregated academies. now this is what this voucher school choice is about. they have always complained that they are paying property taxes. but their children are not in the schools. so therefore this is an , underbelly fight about brown versus the board.

we talk about paying teachers. i grew up in a segregated school system where most of my teachers who came out of xavier, it's an black women, because the teaching profession might now is an 80% white woman profession in america. our children are 80% to 90% black and brown. i say 70%. i don't want to use a number to try to downgrade what i'm saying. ok? this is about a system that has white women, the majority of the teachers in america in public school teaching, then we have the funding coming from property taxes. i support general education funding, taking it off of the property taxes once you retire.

their property taxes will not be sustained to increase this. you also have the pension. the pension debate is also tied to funding. host: you bring up a lot of issues. daarel burnette, let you jump in. guest: first of all, my grandmother is a graduate of that teaching college. i wanted to point out the fact that it is true that america has tied school funding to property taxes. because of that, this was one of the key reasons why a lot of states are having a difficult time raising money for schools in the sense that a lot of voters do not want their taxes to be raised. one of the interesting political dynamics we are seeing now which is a new phenomenon, a lot of folks have a lot of sympathy for teachers. but at the same time they don't , want their taxes to be increased. we have decided that property

taxes are the most reliable sources of funds for schools. it does not fluctuate dramatically. it's an even tax. but at the same time, people feel like their property taxes are too high. state and local politicians are having to decide, do we go to income taxes? do we go to sales taxes? some of those are regressive. up payingpoor end the vast majority of funds. this has different impact on different communities. one of the interesting phenomena seeing is districts that have high property tax values. seattle, for example. i mentioned washington state. they can afford large teacher increases and the teachers are demanding that because they can't afford the rent basically.

but at the same time, you see rural communities that have low property tax value, they can't afford tax increases. there is a disproportionate impact on the halves and have-nots. all of a sudden, this is exacerbating the teacher shortage. to recruit teachers i can only afford to pay $30,000. again, average pay kind of masks what is happening. in districts. are districts paying 200 $50,000 a year for teachers. chicago's southern is another example. there are districts in rural oklahoma where teachers are maxing out at 35 thousand dollars. there is a large differentiation depending on where you're working, based on what type of , etc.. you are we just have a few minutes

left. we will try to get a couple calls in. caller: good morning. i'm from jackson, mississippi. shoot the numbers. we know we are last everywhere. , whyson are they paid so much and the teachers paid less? is an opinion i want why are industries not investing in schools? superintendence pays something people target and are upset about. one of the things for urban districts like jackson, which has a lot of turnover at the

superintendent level, school boards have a hard time retaining superintendent positions. they are very political. it's a very difficult job to do. are going tocts teacher salaries. they are not going to overhead staff. even if you reduce the superintendent salary or reduce office staff, i have been in offices where there are no , there is no professional development for teachers, even if you get rid of vast majority of money goes to teacher salaries. that is something to keep in mind as we debate these topics. host: good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. problem giving teachers pay. status, have a low pay

teachers come in, but they are not qualified. kids, are they qualified to go to this grade level? why don't we test out teachers to see if they are qualified to teach the subject they are teaching. we have a lot of kids in georgia failing in reading and math because the teacher is low-paid. we are grabbing teachers from anywhere. are they qualified to teach that particular subject western mark we need to test the teacher before they go into that process. qualified to teach the subject that you are teaching to our youth? guest: when i was on this program last time, states have a hard time defining teacher

quality. it's a very clean thorny subject. very thorny subject. everybody has a different quality. politicians have a different definition. states try to avoid the question. teachers are paid off years of experience. that is not a good indicator of how good you are teaching everyday. is a flawed way of judging the quality of teachers. we don't want to be dependent on tests. do we depend on surveys? how manyend on bachelors degrees they have? this is a question the state has not tackled. it you --ng to can

continued to see these debates. host: the last call is from wisconsin. caller: good morning. raising taxes for teachers in public schools. the problem is these charter schools are taking over and they are getting more of the funding when property taxes are supposed to go to public schools. i don't know how many jobs out aree where teachers constantly taking work home. they start before students get there, they stay after school helping students, then they go home and grade papers. concerned, they are not getting paid enough. a lot of parents out there feel that. teachers have to teach morals and values.

that should also be done at home. i support the local public school. charter schools are hiring teachers who are not qualified yet they get most of the funding. that's not what my property tax is supposed to go for. wisconsin is an interesting state. one thing to keep in mind, only 5% of kids attend private schools. studentssin, they lose . i was in green bay a couple of months ago. of governor ran on the issue school funding. he said he wouldn't raise taxes, but he would find money. the problem with wisconsin is they are losing thousands of students every year.

because they have a per-pupil system, they are losing money from the state and property value. etc., they have a large number of charter schools. states are losing kids left and right. host: darell burnette >> this evening, senate democratic whip dick durbin of illinois will talk about the leading intoenda 2020 live at georgetown university at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span. and acting attorney general matthew whitaker will testify on these shall counsel investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election life from the house judiciary committee friday on c-span2. over the last year, the world

has seen what we always knew, that no people on earth are so fearless or daring or determined as americans. if there is a mountain, we climate. if there is a frontier, we cross it. if there is a challenge, we tame it. if there is an opportunity, we seize it. let's begin tonight by recognizing the state of our union is strong because our people will are strong. [applause] union, firstof the postponed because of the government shutdown, will now take place on tuesday night. watch as president trump delivers his state of the union address live from the house chamber beginning live tuesday evening on c-span, followed by the democratic response from your jug gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams.

at 9tate of the union live p.m. tuesday on c-span, c-span.org or listen with the free c-span radio app. i have always been enthralled itself.enate chamber if they could speak, what would they tell us? >> c-span's newest book transport you inside the capitol, revealing the rich details of the sent chamber, ornate always, elaborate historic meeting rooms. this keepsake is filled with you to full color photos of the art and architecture that pervades and offers lots of information about its registry. to order your copy $418he nine cents, plus shipping, visit www.c-span.org/senatebook.

>> when did this address become a traditional annual address? >> it has a variety of histories. in 1789ed with back with george washington, when he gave a state of the union message. and then thomas jefferson stopped the practice besides sending of the message. 1913, you finally have woodrow wilson deciding he would come in person to congress. since then, every president has