and later, from the center for responsible lending, diane standaert discusses payday lending and rules. " is next.n journal ♪ good morning and welcome to washington journal. president trump declared a national emergency for funding for his portable between the united states and mexico, likely setting up a clash between the white house, congress and the supreme court. the president wants to divert billions in military funding. congress may vote against it and the courts will be called upon to judge this is a proper use of presidential power. what do you think? is president trump's declaration a good move for america? we want to hear your opinion. if you support the decoration, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000.

if you are against the national emergency declaration, call (202) 748-8001. if you live on a border state with mexico, your opinion is important. we have a special line for you at (202) 748-8002. we are always reading on social and on facebook. all the national newspapers featured president trump's declaring of a national emergency yesterday. here is a little bit from the new york times. "president trump declared a national emergency on friday to access billions of dollars that congress refused to give him to transforming the dispute into a conversation over the separation of powers. trying to regain momentum after losing a grinding two-month battle with lawmakers, mr. trump

asserted the flow of drugs, criminals and illegal immigrants constituted a profound threat to national security that justified unilateral action. we are going to confront the national security crisis on our southern border, and were going to do it one way or another. it is an invasion. we have an invasion of drugs and criminals coming into our country. with illegal border crossings already down, he may have undercut his own argument that the border situation was so urgent the required emergency action. "i did not need to do this, but i would rather do it faster. i want to get it done faster, that's all." we want to hear from you about the president's decision to declare a national emergency. start calling in.

we will go to the funds right now. ohio.rom westlake, good morning. caller: good morning. i support it. a lot of people think we might be crazy. i am a for your graduate of urban studies at cleveland state university, one of the most liberal colleges here. i consider myself pretty much a liberal on a lot of subjects. i love the idea of the wall. i think it is fantastic. i think it should have been done basically in the 1950's. i just support the president on it. it can't be built fast enough for me. host: do you like the way it is being done? does this open the idea of national emergencies being declared by other presidents for other things they can't get congress to do? possibly, for those

are crises we will have to discuss of the nation. i know there is a certain risk to it but it's really important. host: do you think the fact the president is doing this and so many people have declared they will taken to court, is it worth it? without delay how fast this will move forward? -- will that delay how fast this will move forward? caller: this is america and we need to listen to people who oppose the president. people's views need to be listened to. i'm a neocon. america needs to be successful in the world at all costs, at any costs. we need to safeguard the people freedom of people but there will be challenges, definitely. host: robert from tennessee. robert opposes the president's national security decoration. good morning. caller: donald trump is an

idiot. the life to the american people about building the wall with mexico paying for it. they are stupid. host: are you in favor of the idea of the border will? i think we lost robert. let's hear what president trump himself had to say when he declared this national emergency from the rose garden. [video] i will betrump: signing a national emergency. it has been signed many times before. it has been signed by other 1977 or so they gave the president's the power -- presidents the power. we sign it. nobody cares. i guess they were not very exciting. there were four far less

important things in many cases. we are talking about an invasion of our country. traffickers,uman with all types of criminals and gangs. host: let's go to bob from clover, wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. and very proud of what this president is doing for our nation. i support the wall because i took an oath to defend my country from foreign or domestic, and this is an emergency. thingmocrats can't do a and they cannot in peach him. i know that constitute -- cannot impeach him. i know the constitution. it is my wall. it is my childrens' wall.

it is the safety of my children and your children. i think the president for what he's doing. the president for what he's doing. host: would you be in favor of a future president -- caller: it's been done before. obama did it, that socialist. it has been done before so don't say it is all about trump. host: you are correct. it has been done before, but only in issues in which congress had decided on. caller: the republicans support this president. there might be a few people that don't, but it is the democrats' fault. they are socialist democrats. i really hate the democratic party at this moment. pelosi does not speak for me. i am the will of the people. thanks a lot. georgia, who from

opposes the national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: good morning. i am a veteran myself. , and i'men to korea also an airport paramedic. i oppose it because it could have been funded in they did not do it. they don't even want to pay disabled veterans. that's all i've got to say. host: christian who lives in phoenix, arizona, one of those border states. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i absolutely support president trump and declaring a national emergency. he is the commander in chief. he does have the authority to do so. i've heard for almost a month or

two months many people calling to c-span making the argument that republicans had both house and senate for two years. the reality is there something called the united states senate rule 22 which requires two thirds or 60 votes in the senate to get past the filibuster and cloture. that is senate rule 22. patrolto add the border has testified under oath stating areasct that barriers -- where barriers have been reinforced have been 90% effective. standse border patrol behind our president and said yes, mr. president, we need the wall. yes, it is effective.

also the sheriff's showed up at the white house a few days ago and said yes, mr. president. we need the wall. host: you are in arizona. to get this well-built the federal government -- to get this wall built the federal government will have to take away private land. what do you think about that part of the problem? they will have to take away private citizens' land. caller: that is an issue that will be raised. because we are under a national emergency, the military is activated which many people do not know. yesterday in the president's proclamation, he ordered the army, navy and the air force. this is now a military imminent a citizenue and not

or federal issue. it will be at the military level, which is under interestingly different jurisdiction. host: are you in favor of the federal government being able to build a border wall and take private citizens land to build a border wall? declaredhe president that he officially yesterday declared we are in a state of war because of the fact we have drugs, diseases like hiv, tuberculosis, chickenpox, terrorists coming through the border. what people say terrorists are not coming to the border, i'm sorry. these people don't know what they are talking about. you need to listen to the border troll. don't listen to the democrats who have been in office for years and years and have done nothing. don't listen to these democrats

the vote for immigration nationality act of 1952 and 1965 and 1990. don't want to change these laws because they wrote them. is we need to resolve this issue. we have a commander in chief and president of the united states of america that puts american citizens first and he does it for god and country. vonne from manchester, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. the reason i support it is because of the fact that this has been going on for years. it has been a national security problem for years. it should have been fixed before. trump is the only president that will stick in there and get it taken care of. host: do you approve of giving

future presidents the same power to be able to declare a national emergency on issues that congress has said they did not want to spend my on? caller: here is how i look at it. the fact that he had no option but to do this. he gave every opportunity he could for congress to step up. haven't and he has to do this, i see he has to go -- he will be sued, he has to go through court. every other president will have to do that. it will have to actually go to the supreme court to go through if it fails. i think the supreme court would be the best place to decide whether it was an emergency or not. anyway you go it is going to have to be approved by the supreme court overall. new jersey. from

he opposes the national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i think with him using executive privilege i think he is breaking the rules and avoiding the problem. you are not supposed to go and find loopholes like national emergency and bypass congress. it is not with the founding fathers wanted. i think it exposes a bigger problem. the only reason why i feel like the democrats opposed it in the first place was because they want to set themselves up to oppose trump, say trump is that, said he is a failure, etc. so they can have a better chance at winning in 2020. i think all of this is pretty dangerous. i am for the wall but not in the way it is being done because it

people troublesome how at the top level of government are playing the system, finding the loophole, getting past of the people. i think it is very unfair. -- i know a lot of government officials do to you and to c-span. there was a clip on youtube where mike pence, at a speech, said he is watching c-span and listened to one of the callers. pence ore like mike anyone, the high-level administrator, if you talk to the president and ask him sincerely, would you like to touch my monkey? host: nick from sarasota,

florida. good morning. it.er: yes, i do support i think it is not only a crisis now but it's increasing. we have lots of people coming across the border individually, but now we are looking at these massive caravans which the president characterized as an invasion. something has to be done. i don't believe the democrats are upholding their constitutional oaths. what about people in the future doing it? if the democrats were in charge of both houses and the presidency, they would do just like obama did. he said $150 billion in cash wrapped in plastic to iran in the middle of the night. no one asked for that came from. people in the news don't ask the right questions. host: one of the things we heard earlier was house speaker nancy

pelosi saying she expects a democratic president in the future to declare a national emergency over gun control. when you say that is the same as what president trump is doing now? caller: absolutely not. that is a constitutional right. if they do that, i could see civil war breaking out. from let's go to mark napa, california, a border state with mexico. good morning. caller: good morning. andpport the border wall the national emergency. this is a wall for the people of the united states. i wish people would stop calling it trump's wall. it is for the american people. all these people that are coming over the border, no matter what nationality they are, they will be a drain on the american government in american society.

-- and the american society. we apply for welfare. as american citizens we were not given any assistance. yet every single person in front of us or behind his speaking spanish was given assistance. it was frustrating to see that happen. their children got to see doctors. our sun did not get to see a doctor unless he paid $500 -- our son did not get to see a doctor unless we paid $500. it is a drain on the american people. also, a lot of these people are going unchecked. all of them are going unchecked. there is a great deal of them that are very violent criminals. that is a fact. host: let me ask you this question. you live in california. your governor has already said

california is going to sue to stop this national emergency declaration. he says the number of border crossings is actually decreasing, making this a manufactured crisis by the president. what do you think about that? caller: gavin newsom is a real idiot to begin with. he is not for the people. on a holding $3 billion high-speed rail where the plan has collapsed. he will not give it back to the american taxpayers. if he would give that money back to the taxpayers, there is another $3 billion for this border wall. some --wsom -- avenue gavin newsom says he is for

diversity. he lives in a white neighborhood with gates. he is a liar and a moral. host: let's see what some viewers on social media are saying. greene a green -- leroy says the president is sidestepping congress and going beyond his powers. he is not a wizard or a king and there is no emergency. "let's see how much property is affected and how many reject the wall." had an exchange with a reporter at the white house in the rose garden yesterday on whether his declaration bypasses congress. here is that exchange. [video] >> president obama tried using executive action. the whole concept is not the way the country is supposed to be run.

you said you were supposed to go through congress and make a deal. when you concede you are unable to make a deal and when you are ending up with is less than what you could have had before the shutdown? president trump: i want to congress. i made a deal. i got almost $1.4 billion when i was not supposed to get one dollar. i'm not happy with it. i also got billions and billions of dollars for other things. purchase ofies, drug equipment. more than we were even requesting. the primary fight was over the wall. i don't know what to do with it, we have so much money. on the wall, they skimped. sensesuccessful in that but i want to do it faster. over a do the wall longer period of time.

i have already done a lot of wall for the election. 2020. the only reason we are talking about this is because of the election. they want to try to win an election which it looks like they will not be able to do. this is one of the ways they think they can possibly win, by instruction and a lot of other nonsense. obstrutructure and -- ction and a lot of other nonsense. host: alan from scottsdale, arizona. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i would like to make a comment to all the patriots that have called in today. i am so pleased to hear the comments. domain,g the eminent i'm glad you brought that up. if i wasn't owner on the border

and i'm experiencing the amount ,f people coming to my property i would be happy to give an acre of my property a way to stop the flow coming through and threatening my family. and that is my first comment. my second comment is what we ise in the united states areas of the government, like exposed that have been with recently the amount of money given to illegal aliens for their children putting through their tax return up to $30,000 in child care. disgraceful. the other part of it is i would like to see a national

referendum that would allow every person, every school district in the united states to publish how many illegal aliens are in every classroom in this country. that is the other part that is not being told and not given to the american people. we need real statistics. eating overd love what number -- bloviating. every school in district in every part of this country. host: ron from pontiac, illinois. good morning. yeah, i've had a concern for a while. let me start off giving a fact here. in october of 2015, hillary

clinton was in a democratic debate and was asked the question who her enemies were. she said iranians and republicans. she declared 40% of the american people as her enemy. richard nixon had an enemy list of a couple of hundred. look at this whole quarter thing, we had 4000 people killed in the last two years by illegal immigrants. that the higher casualty rate than the u.s. military suffered in iraq and afghanistan during the 2000's. that, 63% of the illegal immigrants go on assistance. let's say that number is wrong. the rest of the illegal immigrants get jobs. ok, that would be a good thing,

right? if they are taking those jobs from american citizens that are mostly blue-collar workers, we are going through a phase where we are increasingly -- the workplace. there will not be all these jobs illegalillegal -- for immigrants that will be taken away from americans. this is a disaster scenario. host: -- disastrous scenario. host: a lot of people are calling this an expansion of presidential power over the congressional power of the purse. finish.gree -- let me do you agree this is an expansion of presidential power, and would you support that for future presidents as well? caller: let me turn this around. congress has been giving away

its power and authority. the national, emergency act is an example of it. this has been a problem for years. thatyou bring up the idea the democrats could come and a power and take away people's guns, i really worry about this --ue because the democrats they are already trying to block ice.peration of all we have left is the right to bear arms. the democrats are trying to interfere with law enforcement, either by killing them or making their operation illegal. with the you are ok path starting with his national emergency declaration for the border wall? caller: if congress wants to

change the law with a veto-proof majority and take away the laws they have already passed. host: kay from missouri. kay opposes the national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: good morning. am i still on? host: go ahead. caller: ok, good morning. thanks for taking my call. theuld just like to say to nonreading american public that walls keep people in as well as out. remember that. emergency isour not people. it is the climate. as anyone who was living in solid rain almost every day now. theuld suggest people read

article "sacrificial land" in the current orion magazine. " dying ofook called the trees" by charles little. he connects all kinds of climate problems with car exhaust and americans are not being made aware of that. suggest ord like to comment, do you realize what a huge economic stimulus the restoration of mobility for all elderly,people, poor, everybody who is not covered now would be reconnecting all of our towns with affordable passenger rail travel?

it is going to have to take place eventually. in their obsession with the continued economic, social and theational subordination of middle and lower classes of working people by whatever means necessary or possible to them -- host: brenda from south carolina. brenda opposes the national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: yes, i definitely oppose it because i feel like there are other means. there is a different way to go about it. other colors talked about the jobs in taking over the jobs and everything. i don't understand how they can feel that way we have a president that hires illegal immigrants. he is part of the problem. to solve the problem the

congress and senate need to get together and work on a comprehensive immigration. they have to charge people for hiring illegal immigrants or aliens. they are not taking jobs by themselves. somebody is hiring them. use that money to build a wall or whatever. from what i understand they have a lot of money for the wall. he had a lot of money before he worked for this amount of money. hee a previous caller said, said he don't need it right now. it doesn't sound that can national emergency. this is my comment. malik from arlington, texas, another border state. caller: this cannot be a national emergency. he decided to sidestep congress,

which is a tyrannical move. this president has shown himself to be somewhat of a neofascist. any type of tyrannical government, out of control government, he expresses those things. that was no more different than his display in helsinki with vladimir putin. we have a situation where we have a lot of republican and right wing collars who oppose immigration -- callers who oppose immigration. i may student of history. there was a lot of right-wing -- the heritage foundation set black people were upset they were taking their jobs. that focus is now on the same people who were opposing barbara jordan back then. party has noc

plans for the american people. intellect asrue far as banking reform, mortgage reform, an agenda that will move people's lives better or forward. i will address some of your callers. they spoke about law enforcement. who sit on apeople jury to decide guilt or innocence. the only way to become law enforcement is when they are in an urban environment and they can impose their will upon black men especially without any kind of recourse or accountability. areas, constitutional right to bear arms and move around -- w, a lot of callers have said the border issue has been an issue for decades in america. building this wall, no matter how, would end the issue for the

united states. the government would not have to deal with it anymore. is it worth it for president trump to build -- to have his national emergency declaration to end the issue? caller: the issue will still exist even with the wall. there are 25 million people still here illegally, or they overstayed their visas. this wall is more of a symbol. it is the way in which he feels he can give comfort to white americans who think they are keeping someone out. maybe being aggressive towards a nap a group they don't identify with, which is fine. they can have a symbol. i think it is a waste of money and not a national emergency. have done they would it for the two years they have a house of representatives. until we address the issues of hiring people -- immigration

tamps down wages. there is always someone else on the road that will do the job for less. host: keith from chicago. he opposes the national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i oppose the wall because of a reasonable american, like the majority of americans. we don't really need to pander to the 32%. fair thatpan is so they really do get emboldened on c-span because the way you rotate calls, they think there are more than then there are. minority, a fringe of the electorate. we don't support your initiative. we don't want to appropriate the money. you told us something for 2.5 years. we will build a wall and mexico will pay for it.

trump was not the only one lying about it. every caller response of "mexico is paying for it," he failed. you can't stick that on the american people. let me be clear about something. illegal immigrants overstay their visas, we know this. they fly in. trickle from the southern border is about race. everyone knows it. president trump had an exchange with reporters about the legal challenges he expects to come from declaring a national emergency. [video] >> what do you say to those who say you are violating the constitution with this move and setting a bad precedent that

will be used by possibly democratic presidents in the future? president trump: not too many people have said that. the course will determine that. i expect to be sued. i shouldn't be sued. very rarely do you get sued when you do national emergency. what are we using it for? we have to get rid of drugs and gangs and people. it's an invasion. we have an invasion of drugs and criminals coming into our country. --is very hard to sto hard to stop. i think we would be successful in court. it is clear. the people that say we are many otherecedent, times were far less important than having a border. we don't have a border, you don't have country. we fight. before i got here we fought all over the world to create borders

for countries, that we don't create a border for our own country. i think what will happen is, sadly, we will be sued and it will go through a process and happily we will win, i think. host: bloomberg detailed a story yesterday on the first legal challenge to president trump's national emergency declaration. president trump from diverting funds from the federal budget. hours after he declared a national emergency. a consumer rights think tank filed it friday evening on behalf of of a nature preserve and three landowners in southern texas who haven't told the government will seek to build sections of the wall on their property once funding becomes available. among manyirst expected legal challenges to the president's authority as he

seeks to fulfill a campaign promise to build a barricade along the u.s. order with mexico. the state attorneys general in , new mexicolifornia and elsewhere are expected to bring more suits. congress is considering taking its own action against the president. public citizen claims trump violated the constitution's separations of powers doctrine when he invoked the national emergencies act. trump signed the declaration on friday after proving decoration to fund the government and avoid another shutdown. bradley from west virginia. he supports a national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: how are you doing this morning? i am 100% for the wall. i said it needed to be built from washington around the whole part of the united states back to maine.

we built vietnam all up in our jobs went to vietnam. the wall, if they put it up, the dome and from illinois, usher illinois would profit from the jobs they lost out there. and allago and detroit them places lost these jobs. if they go to mexico alone, i will say that, if they shut the border wall got completely, the united states could probably build 10 walls stopping the drugs, the cars and all the products coming up out of mexico. lordstown is shutting down. general motors went down in our building to show the cruise -- cruise. if they stop ford, dodge and chevrolet, they could probably build 10 walls. host: do you think building a wall.

wall.lding a it? do you think building a wall will stop it? it will not separate corporation from moving. caller: if you show the wall down 100%, nothing comes across the border, you could get enough money from people working in the united states to build 10 walls. when that affect inter-country business? caller: nafta is a bunch of bull anyway. that is what is killing the united states. we built vietnam up. you can buy a pair of boots that are made in vietnam. host: larry from twentynine palms, california. california is a border state with mexico. good morning. vista: i lived in chula

which is connected to tijuana. you cannot shut the border down. it would kill to towns. -- two towns. the guy from vietnam and the military, i served 20 years in the u.s. marine corps and i worked 10 years for the government. i'm concerned about russia. i have not heard anybody talk about russia. i can't respect this president. he stole the election because putin did not want hillary clinton. he was going to get on him about sex slaves in the drugs. -- and the drugs. why don't they talk about it was buying the drugs? the american people. as far as the nra selling weapons to central america so they can fight for the drugs so we can buy them over here, we have a problem a lot of people don't see.

have been with donald trump for a while. he started talking about obama not being a real american, not born here, that is a russian tactic. a lot of people don't understand. one more thing i want to say. this is north america. we have central and south america. why don't you europeans go back to europe? host: anne from rochester, new york. she supports the national emergency declaration. caller: thank you for taking my call. i livepport it because in a place where there is a lot of people coming here from all over these different countries illegally. the point of the matter is the government, they do get all kind of assistance. i have seen it myself. that is not what i'm concerned about. i'm concerned about the money that's being spent and people

that are needing jobs. we have so many cars on the road now. people that are killed by people i don't have robert driver's licenses. --t proper drivers licenses that don't have proper drivers licenses. license getting the because the test to get a drivers license is in 13 different mileages, even swahili. host: you live in upstate new york. hold on, anne. you live in upstate new york, near the border with canada. where are these immigrants you are talking about coming from? caller: all over. they are coming from mexico. a lot of them are people that have come in through visas and have never gone back. host: a border wall is not going to stop that, is it? caller: their kids are going to

college on grants that government -- the government gives them. they have done well but that is why they are coming here. they see how well they can do whether they are here legally or illegally. host: susan from new york. she opposes the national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. i find this an absolute abuse of executive power. it is very scary to me. it is the first step to authoritarianism and dictatorship. this is what hitler did. if what they say is true, if you don't are from history, yorkie and -- you are gained to repeat it. -- doomed to repeat it. has manufactured this

because he has been talking about it nonstop three plus years. whenis the only reason someone hears something every single day, people start to believe it. like a pied piper, he is just leading people datapath that makes no sense. it is all about him. host: the law president trump is using is a law passed by congress. he is only doing what congress has given him power to do. do you think congress should scrap or change the ability of presidents to declare a national emergency and move money around like this? caller: absolutely. because by creating this law at that point you come to a point for you have something like this happening where someone is declaring an emergency where is absolutely absurd. there is no emergency.

thele have been saying immigration issue has been going on for decades. if can it be an emergency this is something going on for decades and the data continues to show there are fewer immigrants crossing the border and there have been even three or four years ago? chicago.nie from she opposes president trump's national emergency declaration. caller: by all means do i oppose it. i want to say congress did draft presidentialor emergencies, national emergencies. i say the only national emergency is donald trump. he is the national emergency. and theyis desperate, say desperate people do desperate things. i want to say this.

donald trump -- it's been well established he can no longer borrow money from the banks in america. they had beened getting money from russia for years. i maintain that donald trump is stealing money from these well-established american institutions, the dod, etc., and to get this money to pay back to the russian oligarchs known as the mafia over there. he is trying to get this money come hell or high water. host: stacey abrams, who gave the democratic response to the president's state of the union, responded to the president's latest actions during the brookings institute roundtable. here is what she had to say about the national emergency declaration. [video] >> there has been a national emergency declared.

i do believe immediately the moment he determines how he will find the emergency -- fund the emergency, is a question of whether he can unilaterally move funds to finance his declaration. that is the issue. that is where i believe we need immediate judicial intervention. i believe speaker pelosi and leader schumer need to take actions within congress to disputed through the resolution powers they have. there is no emergency. it is a falsehood and it is entirely a political stunt. thisully he will find stuff will have the same effect as last one did. ofilluminate his lack understanding and respect for our body politic. host: let's go to mark calling from hackensack, new jersey. he support president trump's

national emergency declaration. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you. you are a fair moderator. i hope yours will look up online -- viewers will look up online angel families. all did theobama same thing many more times. president trump genuinely cares about the people in our country, regardless of race or color. as well as our economy. abrams point about ask thetured crisis, angel mothers whose children were murdered by criminals. criminal illegals. not illegals. criminal illegals. when it is reporter accused the president of manufacturing the

whyis, the president said, don't you ask these angel moms whose children have been killed at are suffering because of it? we heard speaker pelosi suggest earlier in the week you could have the same justification given by a democratic president for gun control given a number of people who are killed by guns in the united states. is similare justification to a president trump is doing for the border wall? wrong: that would be because it is apples and oranges. by the way, more crimes are prevented by guns then are committed with guns. that is a separate issue. that is the second amendment. that would be taking away the second amendment of the

constitution. i don't think that would be allowed. is a case of trying to keep people safe, as well as it will not cut all the drugs t down andl tamp i help tremendously and let people come in legally by law. it is common sense. host: most border patrol data shows most illegal immigration comes from illegal aliens overstaying their visas, not the border crossings. theou believe the data, border wall is not going to change much when it comes to the illegal immigration into the united states. some of the arguments people have against this being a national emergency. what is your response to this?

caller: that is partly true, however the border agents also say and state the fact is the border will or barrier will prevent a great deal of drugs and illegal crossings and crimes. not all of it. they are the ones that want this also. host: vivian from tennessee. she opposes president trump's national emergency declaration. good morning. it is the people killing americans each day. i live in tennessee. every night somebody is getting killed here. marsha blackburn, our senator, is not saying anything. trump is not saying anything. look what happened yesterday up in chicago.

that is the national emergency. he is doing everything he can to avert us from this russian investigation. it is all leading up to him. every time mueller gets close to investigating him, he always throws out something. people believe the same line over and over. the majority of americans are sick of this. he is abusing his power. democratime when a gets in there, they can do the same thing. people are dying every day in america. if they stop hiring these illegal aliens, they won't come. if these big, rich companies hire them. host: house speaker dizzy gillespie and senate democratic leader chuck schumer put out a statement yesterday after the president declared his national

emergency. here is what the statement says. clearlysident's actions violate the power of the purse which is enshrined in the constitution. that congress will defend our constitutional authority in the courts and the public using every remedy available. this issue transcends partisan politics and go city core of the conception." tammy from las vegas. good morning. caller: i just wanted to rephrase that little bit. i think we do have an issue to take care of and i wish trump would go back to -- we need to end the magnet. i don't think it's really the job. people who say we need to go after employers, i was an employee or nla for seven years. l.a. for seven years.

i would never try to put someone down. lyou will be afraid to hire people you suspect at all might be illegal. it will really hurt people that i -- i hate to say brown. you will not want to hire them l.a. if you think going to go to jail for it. walk here.l here -- the only way to get rid of the magnet is to end birthright citizenship. i wish trump would go back to that. host: dennis from toledo, iowa. he opposes the national emergency declaration. caller: yes.

i work with a lot of illegals in a meatpacking plant in iowa. they were hired by republican republicansecause were afraid of getting cattle blood on themselves. fort be blaming democrats the republican management hiring these illegals. host: larry from memphis, tennessee. he opposes the national emergency declaration. good morning. he don't want to be investigated. this is what you did this. we would not be talking about this. you would be talking about stone and manafort. have a nice day. from lawrence, massachusetts who supports the national emergency declaration. caller: i had a couple of

statements i would like to make. first from the gentleman from california talking about the russian investigation, senator bert came out with a statement that there was no credible evidence that the senate intelligence committee has found, and not one second of that theblished declaration was made. understandwall, i one of the arguments that the apprehension at the crossings are going to. -- down. get that indeed is true, it shouldn't make a difference. if the number of cases of aids is going down, does that preclude using condoms for safe sex?

or if the number of infections in hospitals are going down, does that preclude the surgeon's masks doing an operation? just like vaccinations. you have a wall or barrier to stop a problem. i have a cousin that works on the wall and he said tha the democrats are lying through their teeth. you don't play the rest of it where the heavy pounds and pounds of drugs. they clip it. when you read an article you it to change the aspect of it. you change how everything is coming out. it is the media that is not telling the truth. host: coming up next, we will talk with laura davison about

how the recent government shutdown affected the irs and the upcoming tax filing season. we will be fred back with laura davison. stay with us. ♪ ♪ this presidents' day weekend, on american history tv, the migration of african-americans in the u.s.. starting today at 1215 eastern with live coverage of the association for the coverage of african-american life and histories annual black history luncheon. with discussions on lack migration by columbia university's professor, tiffany w am's radio host. watch american history on c-span3.

new facesre over 100 in the u.s. capitol after he asters elections, including missouri senator, josh hawley. he served as the attorney general in that state. earlier he worked for a nonprofit that does legal advocacy for religious freedom issues and taught at the university of missouri law school. he is the youngest member of the u.s. senate. kansas representative sharice davids is described as a former mixed martial arts fighter. but she's also an attorney who worked on economic development and travel issues. she's the first openly gay person to represent kansas and washington, d.c., and one of the first native american women elected to congress along with deb haaland. kansasond district of elected republican steve watkins, a former u.s. captain and military contractor who suffered a traumatic brain injury and posttraumatic stress

disorder from his service in afghanistan. the congressmen took up dogsled racing while slaves -- stationed in alaska and participated in the iditarod twice. he also attempted to climb mount everest but six members of his team died in the nepal earthquake, stopping the ascent. hoggart -- joined congress slightly ahead of other freshmen, replacing his predecessor who resigned to become the nasa administrator. he also has an interest in space, he was pursuing a phd in astronomical engineering with a 1986 calendar -- challenger explosion changed his career plans. he purchased a mcdonald's restaurant which allowed hit which led to him buying 18 more in the tulsa area. representative kendra horn has strong ties to the aerospace industry. she's a former executive at a nonprofit that advocates for the industry. earlier in her career she was

,ress secretary to brad carson and she was an attorney in private practice. before her election, she was a consultant for communication technology -- for a communication technology company. watch it all on c-span, new congress, new leaders. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back with lauren davison, from bloomberg. she is their tax reporter. we are in tax filing season. how did the government shutdown affects the irs and tax filing? thet: it was not ideal for agency. the government was close to the final month they had to prepare for the filing season. so they had about one in eight employees on the job. they were operating on a bare-bones staff. in the final month they have to test the systems and makes her the forms work. this is critical because this is the first filing season under the tax law that passed in 2017. this is a scramble for them, and the effects that we are seeing

now is that they are a little slow getting returns processed and refunds out and they lost a lot of i.t. workers, critical for the agency. they have 150 7 million people filing taxes every year and the infrastructure runs on 1950's technology. there's always the possibility of breakdowns and glitches. they lost a lot of i.t. workers. that is something to watch for as they go into filing season. host: i had a bunch of questions, but we have to go back to something he said. the irs is running off of 1950's technology, what do you mean by that? structure underlying of their system was built in the 1950's and it hasn't been updated since. host: not the computer technology. guest: no. [laughter] host: you scared me for a second. been highlighted a lot, because the system is so complicated, congress has been giving them more money to update their system. but it's been a challenge.

last filing season, on what was supposed to be a deadline, the system crashed and they had to extend the deadline because people were unable to submit their taxes. they had to update all of these systems, there are concerns that there is always a possibility for something to go wrong, and hackers are always attacking the agency because there is sensitive data there. host: if you have already filed your taxes, or if you haven't, are you going to see any difference in how you interact with the irs because of the government shutdown? guest: hopefully not. if you already filed you are probably good to go. if you have yet to file and you have a question, and you need to call the agency for an answer, maybe you have something weird going on, one thing going on is long wait times. particularly during the shutdown people were waiting sometimes more than an hour to get someone on the phone. it's a little better now, but depending on your question the agency may or may not be able to answer it. to make the phone lines move

quickly they are only answering very specific basic questions. if you have a highly complicated issue they may have to say go to our website, or go to a paid accountant to answer this. to call theyou need irs, probably account for at least an hour out of your day to be on hold. host: you mentioned earlier that the irs was in the middle of having to recalibrate because of the new tax law. how did that make things more complicated or did it? guest: it made more complicated in that every single form, they had to update the form and the instruction. the tax law did a lot of things for businesses, involving a ton of writing regulations, but for people who are filing, they got rid of some credits and deductions, they had new ones, they expanded it. any piece of paper the irs had, they had to update it and make

sure that it addressed all the different points. host: when is the most popular time to file? some people wait until the last second to do their very important tax forms. is there a rush period where you see people trying to file? this weekend is one of the most popular times to file. many people have their forms in their day off of work. the irs says look, move quickly. encouraging people to start filing before this weekend so they can avoid the rush. so if they call and they maybe don't have to wait in line. another reason to file early is that it prevents you from getting into a situation where you have had your identity stolen. identity thieves take your information, your social security number, your address, file a fake refund for you -- a fake return for you and get your refund in their bank account. you givele early,

hackers and identity thieves less time to steal your refund. host: let's get our callers into the conversation. we have special lines this morning for those of you who have already filed your tax dateds and are waiting to -- your tax returns and are waiting to hear back, or you have maybe got a refund. we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you have not filed yet and you are in the process, maybe you are rushing to do with this weekend, or maybe we'll wait till the last second. if you have not filed we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. if for some reason, you don't fit into either category, we want to hear from you as well, that number is (202) 748-8002. keep in mind we are already -- we are always reading on social facebook --er and on twitter and facebook.

with the government shutdown, and the workers coming back, is the irs adequately staffed to make it through the tax season? guest: right now, yes. it was looking shaky. if the shutdown had extended into the filing season we could have seen even worse issues than we are seeing now. a week before they were allowed to call back about half of their workers. even still, the morale in the building is low, people went a month without getting paid. some people are rethinking government service, they lost a bunch of the i.t. workers specifically. and also the people who answer the phones are typically seasonal workers and the irs is behind on getting those people hired and trained. it's not dyer, but it's not great. idea howwe have any many irs workers did not return to government service after the shutdown ended? or did they get back pretty much

everyone that had to go away? guest: we have not seen specific numbers about how many -- what the level of attrition was before or after the shutdown. i know it was tricky that first week to get people back because people were claiming hardship exemptions. areooks like that they doing ok from all indications. host: was the irs affected by the conservatives in congress who wanted to punish them for what they said was targeting of conservative groups through taxes, was the irs affected by that? six years ago the irs was accused of targeting conservative groups who were applying for tax-exempt status. so in congress, how this played out, lots of people were coming into testify, lots of dramatic things happening on capitol hill. what republicans, when they were

setting appropriations levels, they said we are going to cut the irs budget. they did this for several years in a row. in a -- in the past couple years they have seen an uptick but they are well below where they used to be and this is a concern, the agency has had to cut back as more things are put on their plate. the affordable care act was run through the irs, the new tax law, and the hacking situation has been a problem that has arisen. they are struggling financially in a big way. host: let's get our callers into the conversation. caller is from dalton, illinois, he has not filed. good morning. i'm a first-time homebuyer, can you hear me? host: go ahead, we can hear you. caller: this is the first time on filing taxes, i'm a disabled

veteran and i never filed. i'm trying to find out what should i take down, and i have a son in a penitentiary and i send him money. is that deductible? a financialot advisor so i don't want to advise you specifically on what you should put on your taxes or not. irs.gov has a bunch of resources to identify and they have a bunch of q and days for particular situations. q&a's for particular situations. for anyone i recommend they go to irs.gov, they have been diligent in making sure that this information is available online so you don't have to wait on the phone to get your question answered. is calling from chattanooga, tennessee. good morning. caller: good. my question is, i was dealing with a situation where if you

get your social security card stolen and to go to the social security office, they don't give you another number. how do you deal with that when some but he your information? guest: you are not the only person that has been in this situation between having your social security number stolen or hacking at banks and retailers, lots of problems here. the irs has set up a special program where you can get a specific pin that you attached to your return. so the irs knows that you know it. it's not just your social security number, you have to have this additional level of security. in some cases they have that theytaxpayers, know are in this situation. that laura ismind not a tax preparer, she just reports on this issue for bloomberg. let's keep in mind that she is knocking to do your taxes. you have to call the irs if you

have a question. let's go to jim, from maryland. he has not filed taxes yet. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. is, just like on doing a charitable deduction you can put specific things on the tagline of your check, i know this year i'm going to owe some money. is it possible to put not a single dollar for the wall? i don't believe this is an actual crisis, i think it's been manufactured by the president and i don't want any of our money going that way. i'll take my answer all fair. thank you. and thanks for c-span. cannotunfortunately you direct the irs and the treasury department to send your tax dollars specifically how you want -- to spend your tax dollars specifically how you want. but that is what you're congress members are there to do. that's a good reason to vote and

pay attention during the presidential and midterm elections, so the people who make these appropriations decisions in congress are representing what you like them to do. host: something we heard earlier is that the number of refunds -- is down.wn about has anyone figured out why this is? is this the result of the new tax law? guest: there are a few things at play. the first is the shutdown. they are slow at getting things processed. that's down 16%, that's a lot. we don't expect at the end of filing season for refunds to be down that far. but that is what we are seeing. but overall we do expect refunds about 2.5 percent the irs is estimated. this is because of the new tax laws. there are a couple of things that changed, more people will be filing using the standard deduction, a simpler form. congress raised that amount so fewer people will be taking

specific charitable deductions or mortgage interests. they also changed the withholding tables. this is how much your employer takes out of your paycheck every week or every other week throughout the year. the way the tables were changed, they did not translate to the new system we have. so people saw a little more money in their paycheck, but are now getting a smaller refund, or in some cases they are owing the irs. which is how a lot of people on social media are angry, suddenly not getting a refund. , in: let's go to john arkansas. he has not filed his taxes yet. good morning. caller: good morning. back when they were trying to get this pushed through congress, i think it was kevin brady or macarthur, one of the republicans was holding up an index card saying that you will be able to file your taxes on this, something the size of a

postcard. well i've been looking around trying to find that park -- that postcard and i can't find one? where can i get one? not exactly a0 is postcard but it is shorter than it has been. instructions, and you have specific cases with additional forms that you need to attach. you will find a shorter form than you did in the past but not exactly a postcard. host: lilly is calling from north carolina she has already filed her taxes. good morning. are you there? caller: good morning. you are -- good morning. i have already filed my taxes, january 19. credit, whencome are they going to start sending those out? holds all refund

checks that either have the earned income tax credit, or if you get one of the advanced premium tax credits, these are tax credits for government subsidies for the affordable care act health care through the exchanges. they hold those until february 15, which was yesterday, and then they send those out. those were released out of the system and so by the end of the month is when you can expect to see that come through. caller is from florida. how do you pronounce your name? enough, iat's good have income from social security , it's almost when he $5,000. -- it is almost $25,000. -- i had some for my mortgage tax and i did not get

get taxes fromot my mortgage through the county? specificallyt know in your situation exactly how everything shook out, but one thing that is different this year is the amount of state and local taxes you pay. this used to be an unlimited deductible, no matter how many taxes you paid for your home, car, date and local income taxes, you could deduct all of that. in this lot past year they limited that to $10,000. many people you will notice no difference, typically, especially in lower tax states or places where home values are not high. most people don't hit the $10,000 cap. but in high tax states, people will see that affects them a lot. because the home value incentive and tax rates are higher in the states. that is something that has people angry, particularly democrats from this state -- from these states.

like $10,000 looks is what we will see there. the irse tyrant -- taxpayer advocate issued a report to congress, what did she tell them? guest: she highlighted a couple of things, the first was the lack of i.t. modernization, something she's been pushing for for a long time that the irs needs more funding to do this. she puts a lot of pressure on congress saying look, it's your responsibility to fund them, and make sure they have the ability to do what they need to. she was very critical of the shutdown, this hamstrung the agency and if there was another shutdown, thankfully we avoided that a couple days ago. but she was very concerned that this would have drastic consequences, not just for employees not showing up for work and getting paid, but the reason our taxes don't work is because people know that there are auditors and they know their

neighbors are paying taxes. if you look at other countries like greece, there are low levels of voluntary tax compliance because people see a lot of people avoiding taxes so why should i pay mind if my neighbor is not paying his? we have a good system here with checks and balances in place. there is concern that if the irs is not properly funded, or is being shut down during the most important time of the year, we could serial problems that are hard to reverse, once you have people thinking they don't need to pay taxes. what does nina olson do exactly? fort: she is fighting taxpayers, she's part of the irs but she is independent. she works with the federal government but she's independent of the irs. problems, if you have some injustice and you feel like you can't get through to the irs, she is there to advocate for taxpayers. she's looking at things -- the

irs wanted to move online, but there's -- while most people have access to the internet, there are a lot of people that don't. she wants to make sure call-in lines are available, or in person tax preparers so you can show up to community center, school, or church, and talk to a representative from the irs. those are the things that she has been looking in. and you can call her office, if you have an issue she is there to hear you. our viewers to let know if you have a question you want to ask nina olson, she will be a guest on this show on wednesday on washington journal from 9:00 to 10:00 a.m.. if you want to have a question for nina olson -- if you want to ask a question of nina olson you can watch on wednesday and call-in. let's go to eddie, from winchester, virginia. good morning. able to go too be the post office and get your irs

i'ms, i have no internet, 76 years old and i'm trying to find in winchester where to get forms, i don't want to go to one of these places that you have to taxes but io my need the forms, where you find them? the first place i would go is your local post office, the other thing you can do is go to your local library. they either have them there or you can use the computer to look up where forms are available near you, or where one of these tax clinics are happening where you could meet with someone from the irs who would have these forms available. ,he other option is nina olson the taxpayer advocate, send a letter to her office and they could find a way to connect you. host: we talked about the number of refunds being down 16%. we are also hearing the amount, the average amount of a refund is down. what's behind that? guest: this gets really

confusing, a lot of people confuse the value of the refund, the size of their refund with whether or not they got a tax cut. those things may be related but they may not be. one of the changes we are seeing is that everyone got a tax cut, about 80% of taxpayers saw their taxes go down about 5% no change. most people got a tax cut. is that people get their tax cut in little chunks throughout the year. maybe instead of having a refund of $3000 you got maybe $60 in your paycheck every other week. and your refund is maybe half that come tax filing season. this is something people are surprised about. they did not realize that's how the withholding table would affect them. the irs has a calculator where you could put in your income and how much you have withheld and

it will basically tell you by doing this here is how much of a refund you will get and how much you will not get. this is something that has been a big issue for taxpayers, they were exciting a bigger refund thinking congress cut taxes but in many cases they already saw the tax cut throughout the year and are now surprised to find a works by acting a check of what they have gotten in the past and they are not getting that. guest: let's go to david from west virginia, he is done with his taxes. good morning. caller: good morning. , i filed my taxes on a thursday and got a refund electronically a week later. i have retired military and social security and i used turbotax and i found out that i actually got $200 less tax obligation from last year.

so my tax obligation was $200 less. refund was $900 less but i got $60 less deducted from my military retirement pay per month like the lady mentioned. so i actually -- my refund was the same but i got it every month. that's what people are seeing. but like i said, my tax obligation was $200 less, and my income was still taxable income, social security, military retirement, it was $45,000. so no change. so i did benefit. that's where people are getting confused. is in thisd situation i think a lot of people are seeing, they are seeing their refund go down and they are unsure whether they paid more or less in taxes. to figure out whether you did, look at what you paid in 2017

and 2018, compare those two numbers and the rates. if you made more money last year and use wages go up, you pay more taxes because you got more income. it's really hard, and it's not intuitive, this is the problem with taxes generally. they are scary to people. i cover them for a living, they can be intimidating to figure it out. tim, froms go to myrtle beach, south carolina. he has not finished his taxes yet. good morning. guest: good morning. good morning miss davison, i'd like to ask you a question. for a resort-time down here in myrtle beach last summer. i just received a partial w-2, i have not received the whole amount of what i worked for the whole summer. and i have not

received anything back, what are my other options? guest: you want to wait until you have all of your taxpayer documents. you should have gotten that from your employer so check with them and make sure that they did not send it to an incorrect address, or anything there. in terms of how to go about getting that, i don't have great advice. some general options that are out there, i know a lot of times people are waiting for statements from banks, or you own a small business with some of the people and you are waiting on those forms. you can apply for an extension. by april 15, you can send this form to the irs saying i don't have all the stuff i need, i need to wait and they give you an extra six months to get your paperwork together. , fromlet's go to richard oklahoma. good morning. caller: i'm calling into point something out.

i'm a tax preparer the season, i make about $12 an hour. there are provisions for fraud for earned income credit, child tax credit, affordable care act, where the tax preparer could get tax for $520 for each fraud violation. were not making a lot of money, -- we are not making a lot of money, is there any chance these could go away in the near future? bills there are several being worked within congress that would reform -- maybe reform is too strong a word, but would tweak the processes in the irs. but there's not any specific provision i'm aware of that would do that but this is something congress is thinking about on the house and senate sides of what we can do to help the irs update the division. so far this has been a bipartisan effort.

there has been a lot of other things between getting the government funded that has taken priority, but this is something to contact your lawmaker about and is something on the line -- the minds of both senators and members of the house. from northis calling dakota. good morning. caller: good morning. my question is, what is the percentage of illegal immigrants that are in the united states paying federal tax? is there a way that they can? or do they just not apply? guest: i don't know the exact percentage, but in general, if somebody is here and is undocumented but employed, working any variety of job, but working through an employer and getting paid wagers, they are having taxes paid out of their paycheck, through withholding basically with the irs.

-- one thing that get people that gets people confused that many times undocumented workers are paying taxes but they are not getting the benefits. they are paying into social security but not eligible to draw out of it. if somebody is working in home or under the table, like a nanny or a housekeeper, they would not necessarily be paying taxes, their employers could be but in many cases workers who are undocumented are paying into the treasury. host: we would like to thank lauren davison for being with us this morning and giving us all of this great information about the irs's upcoming tax season. thank you. coming up next, we will be taking your calls about this week in washington. any topic you want to talk about that happened in washington this week, we want to hear from you. .epublicans at (202) 748-8001 for independents (202) 748-8002. for democrats (202) 748-8000.

this week newsmakers interviewed the president of one of our unions,eacher brandywine guard. one of her topics was the impact strikes.r here's what she had to say. [video clip] strikes are a last resort, and teachers don't go on strike unless they have tried everything else. there has been 10 years of historic disinvestment. theirtes protecting disinvestment by using privatization and the disparagement of teachers. theat one point or another, straw would break the camels back. i think you saw, after the women's marches in 2017, the activism on fighting to make sure that we protect pre-existing conditions from

being uninsurable. the work in terms of gun violence as we approach the year -- or as we are at the year anniversary of parkland. teachers started thinking and having the imagination that if they actually work together, through their union and together as teachers, they could actually achieve what had heretofore been impossible. which is turning around the austerity, and the lack of investment. resoundingt it is a states, 41of the 25 states 10 years ago were spending more on higher education. but there were real attempts

over these 10 years to try to use normal lobbying. they use the fact that public -- the public supports public education to try to get the reordering of priorities that the neighborhood public schools and public education which serves 90% of kids in america should be the priority. and when that failed you started seeing these walkouts in west oklahoma,arizona, -- chicago, l.a., and frankly, in west virginia again. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back and we are going to open up the phone lines for callers to call lynn about this past week in washington. were going to talk about things that have gone on in washington this week with your federal government. for republicans (202) 748-8001,

for democrats (202) 748-8000, for independents (202) 748-8002. we are alwayshat reading on social media on .witter and on facebook let's go to our first caller, rich from ohio, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, this is related to your last topic. an auto thing happens on a number of languages they have to put on irs forms. languages,w how many i think they are probably up to 15 or 20 languages, what happened in my areas that they had a tax office that was closed of taxhere was all kinds forms and they got rid of that. the post office got rid of their

tax forms. the library got rid of theirs. but you could spend $.10 a copy and get the thing. it's making it difficult for people, because they can't even get it printed in english. go to charles, calling from fort lauderdale, florida, on the independent line. caller: good morning. don't really care if they build a wall or not. it's really about power, money, and greed. i used to watch c-span when i was a kid, i'm kind of political, i know that. you have a problem in presenting a false choice. un not an independent, i am dependent. i'm not dependent on the republicans are the democrats. it's not about helping americans, it's about getting elected are being reelected, to have power and enslave the public to their own whims.

until we elect people who want to improve the lives of the average american by sacrificing, instead of people who want to enjoy the high life with these false choices, we are going to continue to have these problems. there was a time politicians were public servants. , from news go to mike jersey, on the republican line. good morning. caller: thank you. good morning. i just want to say, i listen to c-span frequently, i applaud your efforts for objective journalism. i think the item that got me this week was the revelations by mccabe, that essentially he had orchestrated a team to try and usurp, essentially, president ofmp by exploring the use the 25th amendment to get him out of office. i think the seriousness of this

-- if is proven true proven true, should be a wake-up call to all americans that there is a hidden force. , theratic or republican force has to be managed and recognized. this is essentially trying to -- this move, if true, is trying to ofet the election results 2016. which is a blow to democracy anywhere. of a bananateristic republic, which is sad. thank you. bit: let me read a little about what the scholars talking about. this was a major storing in washington -- story in washington. acting fbibe, former

director, said deputy attorney general rod rosenstein raise high-level discussions about recruiting cabinet members to invoke the 25th amendment to remove president trump from office. of jamestermath comey's firing. the discussion included speculation about which cabinet members could be on board with the idea. mccabe said in an interview with cbs's scott kelly, rosenstein had repeatedly dispute mccabe's characterization of his remarks. though he has not denied the topic was discussed. thebe, who was fired from fbi last march, told cbs that he ordered an investigation into whether trump obstructed justice as a way to preserve ongoing inquiries into russian election meddling, in case there was an effort to terminate them. that was one of the major stories from this past week in washington that has been talked about in the media and around the country. on theinda, in ohio,

republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. it's nice talking to you. i like c-span, the only thing that upsets me is that you read too much from the wall street journal. you people are good, i was upset with him having to do an emergency on the border. i don't think that should have been. i think it is sad that they could not work together, i feel so sorry for the immigrants, if they go to the border and see what they are going to it's, it's sad for everyone. they need to be let in the right way. congers needs to work together so they can bring them in here the right way instead of putting them through all of this. they carry body bags out of the water, out of the desert, it is so sad. i wish they could work together. i hate to see this emergency go on, it's going to cause a lot more chaos for the country. and i want to thank c-span. but i wish you would not read from the wall street journal.

i think you are a fine man. thank you. talkingce again, we are about this week in washington. we want to know what you thought was one of the most important topics to talk about from this week in washington. republicans we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. for republicans (202) 748-8001-- for democrats (202) 748-8000. for republicans (202) 748-8001. for independents (202) 748-8002. we want to know what you thought was one of the most important things to talk about this week, let's go to fill, from fernando beach, florida, on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to mention the electoral college again. i'm not gonna vote again for president until they do away with the electoral college. are not voting in the

president,o -- the the electoral college is electing the president. i think ifer wall, it's for the defense of the southern border, the money should come out of the defense fund. fund.t of the emergency i think that's all i got to say. thank you. host: let's go to roy, from san antonio, texas, on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm glad i got to speak. i'm a retired military member i enjoy being here. . want to point out something

2008 we were 1,000,500,000 -- we were short for the v.a.. i don't get my medical care from 65.v.a., i'm over but they turned around in congress, a month later, they billion for armed aid to israel. i said what the heck is going on? list sheet -- the next year i voted for obama, i said he would never do that. but then he approved $19 billion for israel. that's 49 billion dollars in two ,ears for armed aid to israel

and the v.a. is still -- i'm having a hard time getting appointments for the hospital. and i can't find out what my meds are. , in thecut defense down 90's, the hospital care kept coming down. i didn't use much, but my wife had cancer, breast cancer. so we got our money from that. , fromlet's go to jonathan silver spring, maryland, on the democrat line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to touch on ill hunt omar's comment -- on the

congress woman's common. i don't know how you criticize israel anymore, every time you see israel doing something wrong and you speak up, you are immediately called anti-semitic. look at the commentator on cnn. israel is a country, if they make a mistake and when they make a mistake, it needs to be pointed at and criticized. furthermore, i'm sick inside -- sick and tired of this congressman attacking ill hunt omar -- this congresswoman and saying she does not deserve to be on the committee. and the president of the congress -- and the president the united states calling on a congresswoman to resign. it seems to me that we don't have the decency to speak straight to each other. sometimes, the congresswoman is thefirst muslim that joined committee, and now immediately this congressman makes a

sarcastic thing against her. and i can't even speak about this. it is sad. -- whenime that we have israel does something wrong we need to point and criticized them and every time you speak up you lose your job and it's a sad thing. thank you. tour,on the c-span cities the american story on book tv in american history, travel to springfield, illinois. historyres the city's and literary life. coming up at 12:00 eastern. all of our literary programs will air together in one block. the author of lincoln's letter to the presidency talking about how lincoln built his political career and connections during his time as a illinois circuit lawyer. host: -- [video clip] i like from when he rode from

county to county, 14 counties, twice a year in spring and fall to practice law. and he checked -- in each of those counties in the circuit court. it's called lincoln's latter because he was out there on the road, practicing the law, but he did not come home on the weekend. many did but he did not. he stayed out and we could speculate about the reasons. a lot of people think it may have had something to do with his marriage and i don't want to particularly go there. but he stayed out when none of them did. he stayed out there and built relationships and built this network so he could disguise his political ambition under the umbrella of his law practice. that's the significant of the sir -- the significance of the circuit. and he built this network in the 1850's to put himself in the position of getting the republican nomination for

president. the republican nomination because of the split in the democratic party over slavery was tantamount to nomination. it's my contention that the circuit experience and relationships is what put lincoln in the white house and the latter to the presidency. to the presidency. host: tune in as we travel to springfield, illinois, and to watch videos of all of the cities we have visited on our website. let's get back to talking about this week in washington, let's go to mike, calling from new york on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to make a comment about mccabe and the fbi, you should be encouraged -- for that guy who called upset. you should be encouraged that he

pulled back on it when he saw there was not a threat. trump has no idea what's going on, if he's being played by putin. in new york, if you want to talk about immigrants coming over illegally, and i'm not for illegal immigration but if you want to talk about drugs and guns coming over, in new york there are all sorts of moms and gangs, eastern europeans in drugs, guns, everything, ukrainians, albanians, and trump friends too. but back to the wall. donald trump had two years to do anything he wanted. he could have allocated a trillion dollars for the wall and he didn't do it. you have to ask yourself why. he ships and illegals to work in saysotels, but when he anything, it's amazing how blind these people are.

, fromlet's go to julie rhode island, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: i'm fine, go ahead. caller: i've been listening to ,he scholars, -- these callers i understand their passion and i voted for trump and i'm can vote for him again, i think he's doing an amazing job for this country. do about calling the emergency at the border was a shame, it's a shame this country -- a shame to the republicans and the democrats. believeone thing that i is that we are a country built because of god. god first. everyone else second.

you last. i have a that way great life. this country has forgotten that god is in charge. james, a's go to caller from virginia on the independent line. good morning. real briefly, we have to remember that immigration, to include illegal immigration is not just from mexico. the emergency funding, it's interesting, we need to make sure we follow the money. that 45, or anyone in his family, does not benefit from this, what companies does he contract to get benefits for this? he was not a billionaire when he got into the white house but if we don't watch out he will rob

this country before he leaves. and i hope -- let's go to kristin, a caller from connecticut on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for having me on. i want to talk about what was going on with the markets this week and the federal reserve. i know it was not too long ago that everyone was wondering why the market was going down. it was december. the markets went down quite a bit. and lo and behold, the markets are going straight up. i don't know if anyone out there knows why, but it has to do with chairman powell and central banks around the world. they started, they said they are going to stop lowering interest rates and they're going to stop their quantitative tightening program and possibly begin some

quantitative easing. i think what's important about this is that we have financial markets that are not based on organic demand and supply mechanisms of classic economics. , andve artificial markets these artificial markets are coordinated by central bankers who work for the big five banks. they are not a federal institution, they are a private organization and they created these artificial markets. and these artificial markets, which you see in the stock and bond markets are purposely, in my opinion, purposely designed to transfer wealth from the poorest among us when they print money. our share of the united states, our dollars go down in value. we have less purchasing value. what goes up in value is the bond in the stocks. guess who owns those? the 1%. dennis, as go to

caller from maine on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. hear everyone keep saying when trump had the senate and the house, how come he didn't do anything about the wall then? itple have to learn civics, takes 60 votes in the senate to pass anything. , courtesy ofdges harry reid and mitch mcconnell. but that's all i wanted to say. it takes 60 votes. i believe at the time it was only 52 republicans and 48 democrats. so trump couldn't get anything through. greg, on theo to democratic line. good morning. aller: i'm actually from

little town called roseburg, oregon. here on the west coast knew that donald trump was lying when he came down the escalator and he has been lying ever since. everyone can see he's a joke, he doesn't know what he's doing and he's in over his head. but what upsets us besides the environmental stuff he's doing obviously is compromised by putin. every time he makes statements its pro-russia and against our country. why do we have to see that and why can't we figure that out? toeone has to bring him back reality, he's trying to destroy this country. he's trying to become addict tater and he's trying to complete -- a dictator, and he's trying to tear apart the whole democratic thing. something needs to be done. a caller from sprint -- rob, from springfield, oregon, on the republican line.

caller: as far as everyone on the west coast thinking that trump is taking this country in the wrong direction, i have to disagree with your last caller. the reason i'm calling is that until we figure out how to level the playing field with our tax code, were not going to solve this problem. -- we are not going to solve this problem. whether you're making money in the stock market, the bond market, or digging a ditch. the taxes should be the same in every direction. thank you. to james, from greenville, mississippi, on the democratic line. as far as i'm concerned we should not be worried about the wall. i'm worried about his medical condition. they keep saying he's in great shape, but they don't talk about it mentally. let's go to rick, from

louisville, ohio, on the independent line. caller: how are you doing? host: i'm doing great, go ahead. caller: i group in detroit in the 60's and the 70's. you know nine mile, the movie eight mile? i grew by nine mile. a quarter of my street was at the chrysler plant where they make dodge ram pickup trucks. across the street from that they -- theym transmissions made gm transmissions. the guy from connecticut was talking about the stock market, the way that it works today, the liberals make up -- are made up of billionaires from new york, connecticut, and california. new york controls the federal reserve and the treasury, goldman sachs, citigroup, j.p. morgan, the guggenheim, blackrock, those are all in new york.

do, and theanks federal reserve and the treasury, they print money to support the billionaires that live in new york and connecticut, they print money to support silicon valley, in california. and they also print money, the federal reserve and the treasury , they print the bonds, the treasury. they print the money to support $140 oil and unlimited war financing. let's go to jane, from north carolina, on the independent line. caller: good morning. law thelling about the wall -- the wall. i support the wall. i think president trump is doing a great job, but the big problem, i think, is the media.

companiesle media against this man. when people hear how bad he is day in and day out, what else will they think? they would think he is bad because they hear it. another thing is the border refuse why do liberals to listen to the people that work at the border, what they say, they all say the same thing. it wall works. george.t's go to good morning. caller: good morning. ask, why ask, why i here, no matter i listen to, all i hear is that the ports of entry, 90% of the drugs come through ports of entry.

so someone knows the total amount, so how could anyone say what 90% is. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: listening to some of these people talk about the emergency down in mexico, some of these things he literally just lie lies about. he said there was a caravan of 15,000 people. well, there only 1500 people. it seems to me that a wall is not going to do anything. it is not. they put the wall in san diego, and they put the wall right under the fence. there is no emergency there. our: coming up next will be

spotlight on magazine segment where we will take a look at andreas wimmer's piece on nationalism. and later, we will take a look at payday changes with diane standaert. make sure you stay with us. . we will be right back . ♪ >> this weekend on booktv, two books with authors making headlines. former ceo howard schultz and former "new york times" executive editor jill abramson. andting with howard schultz his autobiography, "from the atund up," with his life starbucks and his plan to run for president and a controversy to follow. howard: i will tell this audience, as i have told every audience, nobody wants to see donald trump fired more than me. nothing over the next year to reelect donald

trump, but i do feel strongly that it is an expression of our democracy that i do have the right to stand up and consider this, and this whole issue of me being a spoiler, as i said last night, how to use portal a alreadyystem that is corrupt and not serving the american people? >> then sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on "after words," jill abramson talks about her new book "merchants of truth" and the ensuing controversy over plagiarism accusations. >> recently i watched some of your interviews. you are suggesting it is not an error in this copy, you say it is a citation error? jill: well, yeah. vivian: how was it a citation error if it is word for word, almost all of the words? jill: it should have been in

quotations -- vivian: or presumably rewritten, one or the other. jill: one of the other. what is interesting, rewriting it entirely but basically having the same facts said, is that really more honest -- video: no. -- vivian: no. jill: in the end, i wish i had done that more and not diluted the actual text of the book. >> watch booktv this weekend on c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues. for today's spotlight on magazine segment, we have "foreign affairs" contributor andreas wimmer talking about white nationalism works and why

it is not going away. good morning. guest: good morning. host: first of all, defined for us what nationalism is, and tell us the history of that term. nationalism is a political ideology. it basically asks for two simple things. one, that those who are ruling a country and those who are ruled come from the same community, that they share a source of origin, and that they share a similar destiny. the second thing that nationalism asks for is that the interest ofin the the majority of the population, while in their own interest. as such, nationalism as opposed to, for example, dynastic system, where kings rule because their father had ruled and their grandfather had ruled, such as in saudi arabia today for, for example.

it is also colonialism, ruling over nigerian some of the indians, and so on, and it is the accuracy,o ruling in the name of god or some nationalism has a long history, immersed in the french revolution, traveled all over the world. it had not become the dominant principle on which the whole state system on a global scale actually rests today. host: so how does the world get such a negative connotation? when we hear nationalism, especially in the united states, it is never a positive thing right now. how do we get the negative connotation to that word? guest: especially here in the u.s., nationalism became correlated with the right after the second world war, when the u.s. and the others won the war against the not the regime came

rank nazi came to nationalism with right-wing ideologies. but exclusively speaking, there were a lot of left-wing movements around the world that were fiercely nationalist. if you look around the world today, there are still left wing movements that are staunchly nationalist as well as right-wing movements. nationalism as such, if you take a little bit of a distance from the current policies in the u.s. and elsewhere, nationalism is not -- and historically not at all exclusively a right wing ideology. most of these anti-colonial movements, for example, in the ere communist wher movements, and they were nationalists. they were opposing regular. host: now, what are some of the

nationalism incidents you are talking about for the country that are really invested in that country. what are the benefits of that? nationalism is also a political principle of equality, so all members of the nation should be on with each other. they should be no further divisions, either of race or other kind of status. so nationalism, historically been ag, has also liberal ideology, has married or entered a union with liberal ideologies. so democracies, the principle of equality of all citizens, all of byse things have been pushed nationalist movements in the 19th and 20th century, and later on, nationalism was also the ideological underpinning of the development of welfare states, including here in the u.s.. so the idea that

citizens could have some solidarity with each other, even if they do not know each other, perfectthey are strangers, these kind of developments, democracy, the development of a welfare state the been greatly intensify the origin. host: you found some countries you found have more nationalism than others. can you explain why some countries exhibit more pride in their country, in their government, than others? guest: in my view, pride in the country comes from exclusionary coalitions. meaning if you have a ruling coalition, a governing coalition that represents minorities and majorities alike, so you have a more encompassing boundary of the nation, then individual citizens will identify more with the country.

if you have a country that is divided along racial or ethnic lines and you have large minorities or even majorities, that are excluded from the governing coalition that are not represented in the core of the power structure, then these citizens will not identify with the national narrative. they will feel, rightly so, excluded from it and be there for less proud of their country and their nation. host: let me read a little bit from your article that speaks directly from that. "the more into passing the networks that connects the national government, the more citizens will embrace the ideals of the nation as a shared solidarity. conversely, those who are systematically excluded from these networks will develop their own systematic activities, often defined in ethnic or racial terms. nation a find their less meaningful category and identify less with that during

what countries do you see that happening in the world where you have a minority that does not feel like it is being able to participate in the government, participate in the country's power, and therefore identify with a smaller group and not the country? guest: that was the case in the u.s. until the civil rights movement. african-americans were excluded from political power and therefore a separate identity as well. if you look broadly around the world, there is a range of governments where -- or countries where historically large groups have not participated in governments. in syria, for example, the country is essentially ruled by a very small ethnic minority, and the vast majority come over 80% of the population, is not integrated in the power

structure, in the military, and the secret services, in the s, and a higher level, and so on. these groups have a higher vision of how they should be governed. they identify less with the nationalist community and more with their own, excluded, terminated against community us. host: it seems like the main thrust behind your article is if citizens are able to participate in the government, they feel more nationalistic pride in that government -- in guest: that is right. host: but if they don't participate in the government, they do not have the same feeling of pride in their country and their government. in my understanding that correctly? guest: yes, absolutely. inclusion produces identification, and the opposite is true as well. host: let's let some of our

viewers join in this conversation. once again, let's open the lines. we will go to republicans, you can call at (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. and once again, you can always -- we are always reading on social media, on twitter @cspanwj, and on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. , who isstart with derek common from lakeland, minnesota on the in the line. there, good morning. caller: good morning. , america. good morning, c-span. i have a quick question, that will make a comment. is your guest, what country is the a citizen of, first and foremost? country -- ii am a am a citizen of the u.s., and i am also a citizen of switzerland, where i grew up. caller: ok, great. you said that nationalism is political. it is not. facet of just where you

are born and where you are a citizen of. i do not understand why somebody who professes themselves as a scholar would be associated with the council on foreign relations. these are people who created the cia, which, from basically world war ii on, the united states has never won a war. we are in perpetual war. and your organization that you belong to is the one creating this, what would they say, this chaos, fear, intimidation, and secrecy. that is what makes people not irnt to be involved in the national, political, civic duty, because the control and the levers are not being produced by we the people. what do you say to that? host: go ahead and respond, professor. guest: the council on foreign relations is basically a club.

there are people discussing things, and brings together people of the new york business community with people of the u.n. who are here during the general assembly. it connects the new york community foreign policy, interested community with washington, d.c. i would not attribute to much power to it. foreign-policy decisions are made in washington, d.c. in the white house, the pentagon, the , and so security staff on, and not by the council on foreign relations. so, as everything, there is a polarized opinion landscape now in the u.s. some people, obviously not you, very strongly identify with the role the u.s. has played since the second world war and see in much more positive

light than you do. defeatingf the u.s., communism, the traditional way of reading things, now fighting other kind of global dangers is actually a source of great pride for them. so i think actually for the majority of citizens of the u.s., the history of foreign-policy involvement of a globalas well as leader and so on, as somebody is a considerable world of pride. americans are quite extraordinarily proud of their country. host: one of the things we have not talked but yet is how you actually did your research to come to these conclusions on how nationalism is effective and ineffective in different countries. how were you able to come up with the conclusions that you have in this article? guest: well, the article is

based on three different books that i wrote, so i cannot summon summarize the method and the data that i used in these three books, but we talked about before, jesse, without a very specific aspect is political inclusion due to national identification some of that was based on a series of surveys, where people were asked how proud they are of their countries that i assembled, and i produced a total of a giant , andy with 123 countries then i looked at the political power structures and all of these countries. the ethnic and racial power then i related the two together to show that correlationsnary or governments, those with citizens that are much more proud of their country. craig, who was calling from tulsa, oklahoma, on

the republican line, join the conversation. craig, good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate c-span. you all do a great job. this is an important subject. the point of nationalism, you have to ask the question -- what is your nationalism tied to? like in the case of dictators and countries that are doing extraordinary -- exclusionary, like exclusionary groups are that is evil,re, that but we cannot call all of the evil. the foundinged to, documents, our legal system, the fact that all men are created equally, even martin luther king, who rightfully marched and rightfully got rights and brought everybody in and got writes, he was very nationalistic. tied to our documents, all men are created equal. so american nationalism, it

cannot be demonized. it is wrong to do that. groups in allge countries, but american nationalism, if it is tied to our documents, and it needs to is that type of nationalism that we are all equal, and that is a good thing. the efforts to demonize nationalism nowadays is being pushed by little groups and often times the democratic party to try to tell people oh, you are in a group, oh, you are being denied, oh, you do not need to be nationalistic and proud of america, when in fact they should be proud of america and all the rice. everyone can vote, everyone can register and vote, everyone who is a legal citizen can have a say. that type of nationalism, american nationalism is unique and is actually acceptable nationalism of the earth.

i am very proud to be an american. host: go ahead and respond, professor. i agree that american nationalism, since it is so inextricably linked to the idea of citizenship, and democracy has a tendency to be an exclusionary form of nationalism, compared to others tound the world, we have guess where exactly the boundaries of the nation are drawn, also in the case of the u.s., not always included in principle as it is supposed to 1860, largetil segments of the population were even excluded from citizenship, even from treated as human, and it took another century until political rights were granted to african-americans, so the boundary of the nation of who as a fullount legitimate member of the national community, they have expanded, but they have not

always been as expansive as they should be. but as a matter of principle, i agree with you. nationalism should not be demonized, and we should also , and we are a talked about, but there is a whole political shading of nationalism, and it goes all the way from the left, and it goes all the way to the right. if you look closely and comparatively, as the caller just mentioned, there is more exclusionary and more inclusionary forms of nationalism. so demonizing nationalism is certainly not a good idea, but that there the fact is different forms of nationalism, even within one country, even within the u.s., and that they have completely different political saliency is an different political applications i think is important. coming up on our twitter

feed, the first question is -- is nationalism connected to isolationism? and is nationalism also, does it include colonialism? do those, being isolationist and being a nationalist the same thing? is being a colonialist and being a nationalist the same thing? guest: well, let's talk about colonialism first. powers in colonial japan who built colonial empires from the middle 19th century on onward, they were certainly nationalists in the sense that they believed mission of theic british people to bring, as they saw it, civilization to the world, and the same french and a on, but -- so there was nationalist motivation by the colonizers, and it kind of mingled with the more purely

ideologies, racial superiority, the burden of the white man, and these kinds of things. but in the larger scheme of things, nationalism is incompatible with colonial sm. it says every people should be everyed by themselves, people sued have a right for governance, so the nigerians should be ruling nigerian people , indian people should be ruling indian people, and so on and so on. colonialism,m and you could say, are how country should be governed. with regard to a connection between nationalism and isolationism, again, there are different types of nationalism. there are so many different types of forms in which it appears. , a problem is isolationists

country should not interfere in the affairs of other kinds of countries. everybody should mind their own business, and so on, but some nationalists are also internationalists at the same time, meaning that they believe thatthe different nations corporate together, to create a world order that is based on so want.aw and o is calling from new jersey on the republican line. tom, good morning. caller: yeah, hi. how are you doing today? host: just fine, go ahead. caller: i guess apparently everybody has their own definition of what nationalism is. my definition of what nationalism is is the united states comes first. people that come to the united put down from their other countries, and they have to put their other countries second. come tore going to

this country, there are a lot of people who want to come to this country, and they say you know what, i would rather be here is, there, but the thing there are a lot of people that come to this country and are in this country now, as far as more liberal-thinking people that say this country should not come first, and apparently that is globalism. the other thing i want to point out, and it will be real quick. you probably have nothing to say on it. this whole national emergency, the only thing that bothers me about it is in 1994, i had gotten my first semiautomatic rifle in 1987, and bill clinton in that administration was telling everybody, they put a ban on semiautomatic weapons. i think this time, i think trump made a mistake. i think he should have done whatever else he could, because

if they do that and they are putting somebody like me, who did not give my semiautomatic weapon back then, and i will not give back this time. host: go ahead and respond to his question there, professor. i do not want to talk about the emergency and the wall. i also do not want to talk about semiautomatic rifles, if you don't mind. host: right. guest: this is really distracting us from the topic here. but let's talk about immigration and loyalty to one or two countries. i think in every country of the world that is a country of immigration, the u.s. and lots of others as well, there is an part of thethat basic principles of nationalism is that the newcomers make an effort to assimilate, to become part of the new country, and if they become citizens, that they are loyal, in political terms and so on, to that new country.

so i think that is a general expectation that you can find everywhere around world, and now again, there's kind of a political struggle or debate around what that actually means. how much assimilation should you expect? how much of a kind of second tier loyalty to the country of origin can you tolerate? so it is basically there where the political debates are evolving. in my view, from the united states point of you, this country has been built on immigration. that is the classical topic of american nationalism. and therefore should continue to actually not demonize contemporary immigrants, such as myself, that actually, you know, gain, so that if these immigrants go through the

process of finding a new life, assimilating, learning the way that things are done here, then they should also not been -- older citizens should not. been suspicious of the should actually embrace them. host:. a couple of quick questions here for you, professor. you think that the win by diverse candidates in the last election here in the united states will help foster nationalism in the united states , growth of nationalism? and also, the national review said that your article, and i will read a little bit from here, "wimmier's work arengthens the case for voting system and for both parties to redouble their efforts to represent a changing american election. you'd think a change in how we vote and to the already, for example, maybe adding a third already, will help in the united states? guest: oh, i do believe so, and i am surprised that the national

s up,w kind of picked thi but one of the problems in the u.s. and polarization is actually the medicare system, and it is one party or the other party that governance. a tendencytself, has to polarization, and a more proportional system, maybe even combined with a multiparty system, is, personable, citizens choice. now we only have to choice, and most people are on one party or the other for their entire life. there is actually very little switching around. it would give more choice, and it would increase the likelihood that you can actually build an inclusionary coalition for a government that actually represents not only have or 50.2% of the population but a

broader coalition would be more representative for a diversity of viewpoints, or backgrounds, for this coalition. host: let's go to paul in new york on the independent line. paul, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. great subject. i have a different point of view with nationalism. i tend to think that went country's political systems do not deliver economically, then make nationalism rise, especially with the, say, the strong man, take hitler's, for in its. after world war i, their country was in shambles, their economy was terrible, so along comes the strong man who says "i can deliver." so to me, it kind of -- i am not saying it is the same as it was back in world war i, but i am trying to say that our present-day america, both political parties, are pretty

much bought and paid for by the wealthy, so i would think that nationalism, someone like trump is kind of a person that really did not represent either party, if you think about it, and along came trump, and i think you may see more trumps and more nationalism. premises, the less your politicians deliver economically, the more you will get the nationalist fever. host: go ahead and respond there, professor. guest: yeah, i kind of agree in general with what you said. to put it in more general terms, where have a situation older generations, compared to their parents, people are not making much progress or even our kind of losing ground the politicaland parties are not really withssing this situation their policies, then indeed you have a voter pool, a large

segment of the population that can then be mobilized. whether it is mobilized from right-wing populist parties, as is the case in some countries, including the u.s., or by left-wing populist parties, that is kind of been open to the specifics of what actually happens in different countries around the world. so i agree with you, as long as income inequality continues to grow as it did in the u.s. and many other countries over the last couple of decades, as long as people are not making, you working class, individuals are not making progress in their economic situations compared to their parents, there is going to be a large pool of voters that can swing around between a left-wing populist, bernie sanders kind of person, and somebody like trump. and we will see when these conditions mor contingent

mor continue more political instability. host: we would like to thank "foreign affairs" contributor andreas wimmer for being with us today. thank you so much, professor wimmer. guest: thank you, jesse. look at payday rules. diane standaert from the center for responsible lending will walk us through what that means for consumers. we will be right back. ♪ next week at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, we will look at the political careers of the four congressional leaders. using video from the c-span archives and analysis by congressional reporters, monday, we will look at senator mcconnell's career. on tuesday, it is speaker nancy

pelosi. on wednesday, we will look at house minority leader kevin career.'s congressional and on thursday, we wrap up the week with a look at senate minority leader charles schumer. watch next week beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. "if beale street could talk" received three oscar nominations for original score, best supporting actress, and best adapted screenplay. sunday, on "q&a," we will discuss the 1974 novel. >> i thought the film was visually beautiful and the thing that really sticks with you is just how loving and lovely the film is. writing really does deal with love, whether it is universal love, loving oneself, love between people and society,

i really think that that is sort of the overarching thing. i think a lot of people probably see him, because he was so in fighting for the rights of african-americans, i think sometimes people mistake that for anger, and i do not think -- i think he was not angry but forceful in his denunciation of racism. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a." >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. ♪ >> "washington journal"

continues. last we are back for our half with diane standaert, the executive vice president and state policy director for the center for responsible lending. talk about payday loans and the changes the administration is talking about. before we get into that, diane, tell us what the center for responsible lending is, and where do you all get your funding? guest: the center for responsible lending is a nonprofit, research center that wealth.ated to building we are also a policy arm of the self-help credit union that seeks to provide access to inponsible credit products mortgage lending, small business lending in north carolina, california, illinois, and elsewhere. like most funding, other nonprofits, through a wide variety of donors and foundations and the like.

host: so explain to our audience exactly what payday lending is and how big of an industry this is in america. guest: payday loans are marketed as a quick financial fix, but in reality cause a long-term debt crisis. payday loans on average are about $300 but come at a very high price. the average payday loan cost is 300% interest. these small loans are causing big problems for people, particularly low income consumers who are on average about $22,000 a year. so some of the examples that these payday loans, problems with payday loans cause include ,ot only the debt trap itself where a borrower is stuck with more than 10 of these loans a ofr, costing hundreds dollars in fees over the original loan amount, so the short term consequence is our severe, but so are the long-term consequences. receiversns

experience penalty fees, increase slightly the bankruptcy, increased likelihood that your bank account is going to get close. d. payday loans are literally bouncing people out of the mainstream financial system. from there, people are going to experience aggressive debt collection practices, which damaged credit scores, and that affects things in the long run, housing. jobs, it is the damage that payday loans cause, and that is why this is such an important issue. to give you a sense of the scale of what we're talking about, every year, payday and car title lenders took away $8 billion in fees from people who are in average about $22,000 a year. is the huge extraction of wealth and income that is happening due to predatory lending products that

carry these 100% interest rates. host: are payday loans legal in all 50 states? can you get these everywhere? guest: no, thankfully, a number of states have enacted th led ty in enacting laws against these products. 16 states and the district of columbia have cap's at about 36%. today, that is nearly 100 million people in this country are protected against this product. unfortunately, that leaves the remaining 34 states with interest rates at 300%, 400%, even 500%, in states like texas and other places. it is in those states where people are really exposed to the harms of the debt trap. with no protections against it. host: before we get into talking about the changes they are making, i want to make sure our

a testament as they in this conversation. if you have experience with payday lending, we want to hear from you. we have a special line for you. we want you to call. (202) 748-8000. once again, that line is for people who have experience with payday lending. want toy else, if you talk about this and you do not have experience with payday lending, we still want to hear from you. we want you to call in at (202) 748-8001. ise again, (202) 748-8000 for people who have experience with payday lending. (202) 748-8001 is for everyone else. so we want to get your questions about payday lending on those two lines. has been proposed changes to the payday lending rules and regulations in america. what is the administration trying to change, and why are they trying to make these changes? guest: that is a great question. is whyd in that question

is the current administration fighting with payday lenders, 300% interest rates, rather than consumers who were harmed by these predatory practices. in 2017, under the previous administration, the consumer financial protection bureau finalized april 2 protect against the harm of the payday lending debt trap. part of this rule was this basic idea of a payday lenders showed a borrower's ability to repay a loan, they could make sure the loan was affordable in light of a borrower's income, expenses, and they could repay the loan without repeatedly reborrowing. finalized in 2017 and was supported by hundreds of thousands of people all over this country. it was set to go into effect of august of this year. the payday lenders doing the work and getting ready to comply with those new protections against the debt trap, they have been fighting tooth and nail to block these

protections. and so that is what happened last week under the leadership of director kathy creditor, who follow mick mulvaney. they gave the payday lenders a huge gift, they gave them a gift of proposing to repeal these common sense protections to make sure payday loans are affordable to borrowers. the fact that the payday lenders oppose this idea that their loans should be affordable and should be paid back without borrowing, that converts everything we know about the payday loan system. host: so is the 2017 rule now not going into effect while they try to overturn it, or will it confuse the fact, the fact that the administration is against it will stop it from going into place in august? guest: the current administration has proposed a

delaying the compliance for the rules as well is proposing a repeal of the rule and maybe replacing it with something far weaker. host: let's let pamela, who is calling from california get in on this conversation. good morning. caller: good morning. i am concerned. i have been reading about this particular problem in the "l.a. times," and i love consumer protections. i like to be protected from unfair practices, certainly because a far less sophisticated me may need more protection. available tofunds people who are facing eviction or they have a car bill, they cannot get their car repaired, they are going to be able to .ontinue working they absolutely have no resources, no family member, they have no credit, and they have no ability, other than

possibly selling their blood, to get any money to put food on the table or to keep their car running or to put gas in the tank. i understand what you're saying, it is as a cycle, and very stressful and difficult position to be in. that, family members fortunately, they do not have to call the lender, they can call me, and i can give them a loan, which they don't have to pay back. happen about what will to them went -- i am elderly -- when i am not around. concerned about you advocating to regulate these loans out of business, because i -- they may be unfair, and the average person was just average credit would never agree to the terms, but

these are people that are very high risk as far as their ability to pay back and their credit records. host: go ahead and respond. guest: yeah, so i think it is how paydayo remember loans are structured and their design, that the payday loan product in itself is structured to be a debt trap, not only with the high interest rates but their ability to take direct access to a borrower's bank account, so that means on payday, when income comes into the bank account, the payday lenders stands first in line to take that money away, before somebody has a decision about how they want to pay their rent, utility bills, or other obligations, they have to me that. the repayment of that loan then leaves them without enough money to make it to the next payday, so they need the next payday loan, and thus the cycle begins. that is what the payday lender is counting on. that is what is driving their business model. . loan whichat payday may look to solve that solution in the short-term term just causes that financial hardship

to extend for months and months and months. many of the things that she was describing in terms of harm to be concerned about, evictions, difficulty putting food on the table, these are all the things that borrowers, we hear all the time, that the payday loans stresses, and it is harder than that original emergency. so a payday loan extends the financial emergency, not solves it. so what we see in terms of how people manage when these 300% payday loans are not around, then we can look to the district of columbia as we speak and the 16 states. in those states, we hear from borrowers who have a range of options that they choose from when they are experiencing financial stress. there are several states that used to have payday loans but now do not, and we hear all the

time that borrowers are glad. it was easy to get into, but it was hard to get out of. and just to the final point, again, the protections that we are talking about today that were proposed by the consumer were again areau common sense principle that is consistent in a range of lynching practices that lenders can simply ensure that that loan is affordable -- range of lending practices that lenders can simply ensure that that loan is affordable. is something that payday lenders do not do, and it is something that tends to drive their business model. host: let's talk to ron, who is in washington, d.c. and have experience with payday loans. ron, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i love your show. i'm a native washingtonian.

this is my first time in 20 years i have gotten through. host: go ahead. caller: my point is, yeah, it is a trap. i have dealt with financial stress with divorce back in 2002, and i have a special needs child. my son has asked for her symptom, which is -- as perger's syndrome, which is a form of autism. road, you know exactly the area and talking about, in washington, d.c., the interest rate on the loan is insane. it is like you are paying back the principal and almost double of what you've just got. it is insane, and it just keeps going up and up. after the third time i did it, it is almost like you are getting addicted to crack and you just cannot get out. after the third time, i was like "this is insane," i am giving them more money, and it is actually exacerbating my

problem. after the third time, i have not done that, and that was back in 2005, i believe, was the last time i even took one of those out. i stay away from those things. so for them to deregulate payday loans, lenders, where you can possibly lose your car, i mean, turn your car title over? your cart to get to and from work, and you miss a payment, you think they will not snatch your car away from you? it is insane. thank you for your thoughts, and thank you for c-span. guest: thank you, ron, for sharing your story. unfortunately, it is a story that is all too common that we hear time and time again. again, the design, it is a debt trap that is intentional. thankfully, the concerns and experienced in the district of columbia did take steps in 2008 to rein in and cap the rate

here in d.c. at 28% interest. justther part of that, reflecting on what you share in your experiences and the stress that it caused, i just want to highlight that that type of stress, again, is not unique and is quite familiar. the same stress was happening to our active-duty military. 2006, time, prior to payday lenders set up around military bases and were targeting our active-duty soldiers, because they had this steady paycheck coming in. the u.s. department of defense found that these payday and car title loans were so dangerous that they were undermining our military readiness. and as a result in 2006, congress enacted, with bipartisan support, a 36% rate cap for these loans -- host: for the military. guest: for active-duty military, yes. we are thankful that that protection exists for active

duty military, and similar to what other states have in place, so we see that is a pretty common sense, most effective way to stop these harmful practices. host: speaking of congress, is in the housee or senate to go back in reverse with the administration is trying to do, or will the administration make its move first, and then congress will see what happens? guest: weguest: have already seen a number of members of congress already expressing .uite amount of displeasure last week, several members of the u.s. senate and the house expressed opposition to this robot in -- rollback in favor of payday lenders. we will have to see what the process plays out, what the bureau does, in terms of whether it will finalize this repeal, congresse meantime, can, just like the states can, congress could also enact a 36% rate cap in this country. that would also be there choice.

host: let's go to linda, who is calling from largo, florida. . linda also has experience with payday lending. linda, good morning. caller: thank you so much to c-span or this topic today. i have experience using payday loans, and i would agree with her that it is a vicious cycle. i had to bar whitley's hundred dollars, and the fees were over $100 -- i had to borrow almost $500, and the fees were over $100. states thatis the are using payday loans, are they getting some sort of kickback, and is that why they do not want to stop these unfair practices? thank you. guest: thank you for your question and for sharing your story. i know in florida, those pernicious.e quite the average interest rate in florida is 206% apr, and payday loans drained away over $300

million in fees from floridians every year. the payday lenders -- i have been doing this for 10 years, if it is in the states or at the federal level, and a is any protections that will cut into their debt trap business model in any way, they will fight using every tool available to block those protections. is,ink the primary reason for example in florida, they get to strip away $300 million a year from people earning very little money. so the debt trap is alive and well in florida, as we have seen. florida of the loans in for the borrowers, more than 5 million a year, and that has been consistent for over a decade. , if the rules had gone into effect, they would be able to provide protections in florida that the florida state legislature has refused to do on its own. host: what is your counter

argument to the idea that americans should be able to enter any deal they want, even if it is a bad deal, if they want to sign for a payday loan that has 300%, people should have the right to go out and find that loan. what is your counter argument for that? guest: again, this is a flawed, dangerous product that is not actually functioning as a main full access to credit. it is really just access to a debt trap. payday lenders, the market alone as a quick and easy fix, they will disclose the 400% interest rate, but they do not disclose ist their business model actually counting on you walking back in the door, 8, 9, 10 more times. just to give you an example, only 2% of all payday loans go to borrowers who take one out and do not come back for a year. only 2% of the loans are actually being used in the way they are marketed.

on the flipside, 75% of their revenues are due to borrowers with more than 10 loans eight year. so this is really just a debt trap that is being marketed as a loan product. to faith who is calling from san jacinto, california. faith, good morning. faith, are you there? caller: yes, i am joyce. host: go right ahead. caller: thank you, c-span, for having "washington journal." it is where we the people have a voice. thank you so much. anyway, new york has the most comprehensive loss in my research. -- inpeople have failed the abuser he laws in california. no reply back. with hisrs spoke assistant about this. no reply back. credit cards are up to 30% and rising. ridiculous.

even a 30% or 36% cap is not going to help people who are in dire straits military being targeted, it is disgusting. they keep us safe. i cannot believe it. it is disgusting. guest: yeah, there are a lot of people who share that. 300% interest rates are outrageous, and this country and ithy -- every major fa tradition has deep rooted sochings against usery, there are long-standing principles against usery practices in our country, ifth-based predictions, and you look at the founder of capitalism and even voters, when voters get to weigh in on this callion, they uniformly

for reining in these practices, so just in the last two election cycles both in south dakota and colorado, over 75% of voters thoseed a 36% rate cap in states, ending the 300% and 400% interest rate on payday loans. so this deep-rooted sense around b the outrageousness of usury is quite common again, and it shows how out of step and how out of sync with the bureau did last week really good. host: so you need money immediately, and you have bad credit, what would you suggest someone who needs that loan immediately to do instead of going to a payday loan? guest: do not go to a payday loan is the first thing. host: where do you suggest they go? guest: borrowers tell us all the time, they talk about the range of options they can do to manage financial stress.

onhave heard some of that the call today, whether borrowing from friends and family, or credit unions have access to some products, or working out payment plans with a utility provider or even other places to moving the budget. a lobbyist same options that people used to actually get out of the payday loan debt trap are actually options that still exist today. host: let's go to wayne, who is calling from olympia, washington. wayne has experience with payday loans. wayne, good morning. caller: yeah, hi. how are you? host: go ahead. goodr: yes, well, i had a but there are not germany places i can go and get $200, for, you know, $28. paid itrest rate, i back in a month, and that is about it. the places that lend out around here, well, i have nothing but

good places to say about them. and if youof them, cannot pay it back, they work with you, so, uh, you know, if the government would stay out of their business around here, they will work with people. host: wayne seems to be one of the few people, that to present you were talking about. guest: wayne, thank you for calling in. i have a full you did not get caught in this trap that payday lenders are designed to do. but again, as we talked about, that is not the typical experience that you see and hear about all of the country. again, only 2% of borrowers take a loan out and don't come back for two years. again, as a contrasting example, over the course of our work, i have learned a lot terms that payday lenders have for some consumers. they refer to them as 26ers, and

that is because the terms for customers they will see 26 weeks out of the year, every payday, because they cannot get out of the debt trap that the payday lender has put them in. host: where can people find more information if they want to learn more about this? centeryou can visit the for responsible lending's website, or stop thedebttrap.org. host: we would like to thank diane standaert for being with us today. thank you so much. guest: thank you for having me. host: join us tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. for another "washington journal." thank you for calling, and thank you to all of our guests who were here today. have a good day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] ♪

coming up on c-span, interviews with new members of the u.s. house discussing their first days on capitol hill. meeting aboute changing the rules for consideration of presidential nominations. then, we will hear senators speak about the young bars nomination to be the next attorney general. c-span recently spoke with a few of the freshmen members of the 116th congress. up for us, a democrat of michigan who replaced his father in congress. he also served as deputy director of the michigan department of energy and founded a clean energy firm. prior to his energy work, he spent years working as a union organizer. rep. levin: i started organizing union workers in michigan and later rhode isl