electoral votes to the president who wins the popular vote. we will take your calls and you can join the discussion on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. >> it is "washington journal" from march 9. one of the details from yesterday's jobs report was what happens when it comes to wages. reports show less, if youking are making the same.

if you want to post your thoughts on our twitter feed, you are welcome to do so. the washington post takes a look at that report from yesterday. it highlights one of the things coming out. wages grew 3.4%. the government reported friday the fastest pace in nearly a decade and well above inflation, suggesting many are slashing requirements for drugs -- jobs. lucky to event get a call back. looking at the wages from yesterday's report, talking about potential for the future. this is what he writes. inhough hiring fell sharply

february, the unemployment rate fell to 3.8% in february from 4% , almost 21 million new jobs have been created since 2010, creating one of the tightest labor markets in decades. from an economic recovery in wages are friendly rising. 3% a year has raised over the past 30 years. youre getting a sense from on where you are with wages. if you made more than you did last year, perhaps you are doing the same or making less, (202) 748-8000 you are making more. (202) 748-8001 if you are making less. (202) 748-8002 if you are making

the same. as we wait for those calls to come in, we will look at the overall picture on the february jobs report. joining us on the phone is chris gave her of the associated press. good morning. guest: good morning. host: walk through the topline numbers and put that in context ow.where the economy is n guest: you had a gain of 20,000 jobs, which was a disappointment , but it comes after several months of strong gains. most economists see that as a payback a little bit from the big gains in previous months. not too many people are worried about slowing. most people think job growth will bounce back. 4%mployment rate fell from to 3.8%, which is a good number.

this is close to the lowest unemployment rate we had in nearly five decades. the measure of so-called underemployment where you take into account people who have given up looking for work recently and people who have part-time jobs but one full-time jobs, that underemployment rate has fallen to the lowest since march 2001. some of this was distorted by government workers going back to work after the shutdown ended. government many workers were counted as unemployed because of the shutdown. last month, they went back to work. they were counted as employed. that helped bring the unemployment rate down. if we saw suchhy a low number when it came to job growth, we saw a dip in unemployment.

the government has two surveys to measure these things. unemployment is measured by households. that found a lot of people saying they had not gotten jobs. others were people who did find work. the job total is done by a separate survey of companies. survey, there was not as much job growth. the two surveys can diverge month-to-month, but over time they run at pretty much the same level. host: the wage growth factor of this, 3.4%, talk about that number, also in light of the fact that participation is that 63.2%. isst: what you are seeing good wage growth. companies are working harder to find workers.

companies have complained they cannot find all the qualified workers they need. many economists point out that if that is the case, they should be trying to pay more to attract those workers. that is how a job market should work. 3.4% is pretty good. it is up from a 2.5% pace a year ago. in the past, in the late 1990's when we had unemployment this low, which growth has been higher, sometimes above 4%. there is still room for the pay to increase. given the unemployment rate, it is likely to keep growing as employers fight for workers. if you exclude some of the older itulation that is retired, appears some of these wage gains are bringing people off the sidelines, those that may have been staying home to take

care of children, people who might have taken time to go back to school. with the unemployment rate low and pay going up, it seems some of those people are coming off the sidelines. host: the people who are enjoying these wage growth bumps, does that matter whether you are hourly, salary, who stands to do the best? mostlyfor now, it looks across the board, although some of the lowest paid jobs are seeing gains. that comes as restaurant workers, hotels, retail the competition is heating up. retail workers have seen a 5% gain in pay over the past year. that is higher than the overall average. you have seen company announcements.

costco came out this week saying they will pay $15 an hour. amazon is up to $15. target and announced therese is. -- pay raises. this does not make up for some of the lagging wages for years and years, but it has been a good thing for lower end of the income scale. host: chris joining us to walk through that. his writing can be seen at the ap website. thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: getting a sense from you about if you made more than you did last year. (202) 748-8000 if you say you did make more. if you make less, (202) 748-8001 . if you are making the same, (202) 748-8002. you are free to post on our social media site. in maryland, anthony starts us

off. thank you for calling. go ahead. caller: good morning. as chris was just saying, job growth was at a 50 year high. everybody has to remember 50 years ago, there was the biggest boost to the american population, the baby boomers. they started retiring under president obama and accelerated through president trump. i think it has come to a point where most of the baby boomers are retired or died off, which is why you see that many job gains and more jobs to be filled then there are people to fill them. there has not been a boost to the population. it is not jobs being created. they are being vacated. there are not enough people to fill them. wages will rise because they are going to have to pay people to fill these positions.

i still think the economy won't show. they are going to pass that raise on to the consumer. we are looking for higher inflation, i think. host: where you are as far as your work is concerned, do you have the potential to see more wage growth? caller: i am one of those baby boomers that is retired. i do gig work on the side. i don't see again. like i said, inflation, drug prices, i have to do prescriptions and things. notgame you would see is he by inflation -- game is eaten -- eaten by inflation. here is yesterday before

president trump left for alabama. [video clip] >> the economy is doing very more seeing wages rise than they have been a long time. wages are going up for the first time in many years. i talked about it during the campaign. i am happy about that. the economy is strong. if you look at the stock market over the last few months, it has been great. since my election, it is up close to 50%. we are very happy with that. these trade deals are china,e are working with you will see a spike. a lot of people are waiting to see what happens with the china deal. mexico and canada is done. we will be submitting to congress shortly. that is a great deal for the united states. host: are you making more than

you did last year? cindy in maryland says she's making less. caller: good morning. i am on my way to work right now. have to do that to make ends meet. i am making less. that is verypany prestigious. they tend to pay their workers far less than the industry standard. i was listening to the speech trump was giving, and i cannot help but get irritated because he speaks about the economy booming and greater than it has been in ages, yet my 401(k) and 403 b have lost. just one of them in the last quarter of 2018, i lost almost $3300. together, item all

is about a $10,000 loss. i have a hard time trying to compute where is information is coming from. , and ite tends to enjoy is not always compute into parallel numbers. host: do you see potential to move to another job? the reporter at the beginning of the show said because there are jobs out there, people may see the opportunity to move on to something better. do you see that potential? nurse, there is always that potential. wherever i go, i'm always offered a job because of where i work. i have been there 21 years. it is hard to leave. my wage has not changed. i am at the top of my scale, which is not hide. it is probably comparable to a medium scale of a nurse in a

more competitive arena. i would have to leave. if i did leave, i would probably have less security. i believe a lot of this where they talk about wages have for thed has been lowest of the low income earners . jobs shopping,of my last pay raise was like $.20. businessesd parallel in addition to working as a nurse full-time or part-time. it is difficult. it really is difficult. last year, i was making more. i was in a business, a startup business. host: thank you. that is cindy. from liverpool, new york, john says he is making less. caller: yes, making slightly less. the early sons in

30's, both of them are making terrible wages. i have a son with a four-year accounting degree. he works for bny mellon, they pay him $37,000. are you kidding me? you talk about wages increasing, since when? it is garbage. i don't know anyone who's wages have increased. in my circle, i have seen a lot of people come and go. they never end up getting paid more. if they lose a job, they might take a job that pays less. jobs,eve there are more but the aspect that these jobs are paying more, maybe at the top end, but the people at the bottom and, the people making under $50,000, they are not making more. that is garbage. host: that is john in new york. the later -- labor

department put out a report looking at wages in 2018. the median full-time worker at that time was making about $900 weekly. translated to about seven or $94 weekly. 3 weekly. we are getting your sense of where you are with wages. middleburg says he is making more. hello. caller: good morning. yes, we are definitely doing better in upstate new york then we were four years ago. host: what do you attribute that to? caller: the fact that the work is coming back.

the economy is being lifted. i am a small business owner. i have seen nothing but a blessed. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: we install floors. host: since the economy is better, you're getting more requests for work. when you say we, how many people do you employ? caller: i only employ one other person. like i said, small business owner. we have seen the amount of work increase at least a third in the last two years. host: as far as the other person you were worth come what is a salary for someone like that? what can someone earn? caller: it depends on how busy we are. it is kind of hard to put a number on that. host: let's go to debra. michigan.n

she says she is making less. caller: the corporations have moved out of the country. my husband and i are definitely making less. shops to buyl things. eat soup a lot. we do our cooking at home. if we go out to eat, it is to a fast food restaurant. the taxes are so high in michigan, they are like california. the gas keeps going up. the schools keep going up. we are retired. , our health isi not as good as it should be. we are just getting by. we have a 12 year old car. if we have to, we have to take a bus.

i don't know if we're going to have to move out of michigan. we may have to move to florida. host: paul in connecticut says he is making more. caller: i am making more money. first off, i am 78 years old and still working. i do computer programming. the market is out there. on what you are doing. i found that when i keep myself busy working, my salary is equivalent. will we have to look at when people say or a one k, they need to look at what their 401(k) is invested in. i just got my statement for the and i see that i have a 3.5% increase in my

401(k), even though i am required to take money out because my age. what people don't understand about economics is they need to read up on the yourial and realize that get stuck in jobs that are paying less because those jobs, there are more people in them. for your job situation, what do you charge? caller: $75 or $80 an hour. i work from the house strictly because of my age and so on. effect, it is the type of work i do. host: there is always requests for work, you are not seeing a shortfall in that?

caller: that is correct. specific, it is has to be w-2 environment. i am fortunate. that is paul in connecticut. that is part of it is expressed. some making more than last year, so making less, some the same. showing wages higher this year than last year. (202) 748-8000 if you are making more. if you are making less, (202) 748-8001. if you are making the same, (202) 748-8002. if we take a look at the labor department statistics, if you are in the professional or $1500 isl work class, the average weekly earnings for

men. 1102 for women. in the service industry, $675 for men, $512 for women. without a high school diploma, $543.erage weekly wage is if you have a bachelor degree, the average median is $1340. that information is from the labor department. jim is in california, making the same. caller: good morning, pedro. thank you for your contribution to american democracy. i just repair bicycles. i do them on the side as a retired person. i was doing well for the last couple of years, but over the last two or three weeks, nothing.

something is changing in the economy. one thing i feel about being a small business person, doing it on the side, you have your finger on the polls of where the economy is going. sales has just dropped off. i was doing really well for a couple of years, but lately things have changed. one big thing that never gets talked about that it would be wonderful c-span could talk about, the american real estate. any gains people get in wages, they will lose in rent and mortgage. american real estate is now the vehicle to clean up dirty money from around the world. the cost of living, the cost of housing in comparison to people's wages is just way out of line. standard was not supposed to be over one third.

most people in california are paying way over half their wages just for rent, and that does not even in the being gouged by pg&e, who is just about to declare bankruptcy and out of control utility bills. is bicycle repair a lucrative business for you? caller: it is not a lucrative business. it is basically bangladesh slave wages. here who lot of people are pretty mobile. there is an upper group of people in the gas and oil industry who will come in and purchase things, purchase expensive carbon fiber bikes. i might be able to pick up a couple of those. thatthe market is so small any decent merchandise i come upon i have to sell in los angeles because the market is too small.

californiais jim in talking about his experience. workers,ty to gain this tells the story of ron nelson, who runs a garage for business in las vegas. he said a man in his late 20's showed up in his office at 7:30 in the morning saying i need a job, i really need to go to work. nelson liked him immediately, said he had experience installing drugstores, and told him to come in for a longer interview at 2:00. nelson changed his mind and hired him on the spot. as an employer, 3.8% unemployment is not a good thing. we started technicians at $15 an hour, but he has been bumping most workers up to about $20 an hour within months to prevent them from being hired away. the experience of one business owner when it comes to the

editor wages and jobs in ohio. patrick is next. good morning. good morning. thank you for your time and the opportunity to speak. in the medical field for a quarter century and then trying to some a retired and having my 401(k) taking a beating, had to go back working part-time and working in the service industry, at least in this local tri-state area, i know the labor department is showing $500 and $700. most of the people in this area, i guarantee you it is a push. $325 a week. that would be a push. host: what kind of work do you do in the service industry?

caller: working at a convenience store right now. is $7.25. wage job host: some of the experiences people are telling us about in relation to their work. john in ohio. caller: good morning. i have seen an increase over the last couple of years. i do engineering work. i see a lot of automation, a lot of robotics, a lot of industrial steel mills. between thel you pennsylvania and ohio areas i work, the jobs are pretty boundless right now. they are very high paying jobs right now. i do not understand, i have listened to some of these other ones, and i have relatives on

the coasts, east and west coast, when in california, one in name. it is truly amazing the difference in how the midwest, i have to be honest, has done well i have a sister that wants to move out of cal because of the tax issues there. host: when it comes to the work, are you one of the few the area that does that. is it a competitive market? caller: it is a very competitive market in all 50 states. as far as my work goes, it is just a lot of engineering calculations, a lot of automation. sectorsa lot industrial i have seen so much of it over the last couple of years that the ramp up job has been standing. i have seen it the sectors, at

least the industrial side of the service industry where i live is to really well. they are building new restaurants in this area is just a much better. host: thank you for telling us if you go to the street, it talks about the recent decision by moscow to increase wages. amazon dollars an hour. walmart $11 and hour. walmart, your median wage is expected to be $19,000. $20,000 at target. kroger.at

$28,000 at amazon. cosco $30,000. -- $38,000. wages.alking about you can post on social media, a spoke, twitter -- facebook, twitter. john from texas. go ahead. caller: in houston we have a battle going on over fire pay. looking at other major cities in 9%as, the city offered a raise. the fire makes me 9% less than police-- 29% less than

in houston. they voted for pay parity. the mayor said they would be forced layoffs. we are looking at the issue of safety or rustic country, first responders. of significant demand agencies across the country. we definitely underpaid as public safety. that is a nationwide issue. votedston, the voters under the ratification that there would be this significant layoff. the mayor and the union are

between a rock and a hard place. mediation moving forward. is doing anpart of enormous job. public safety is to birds of the budget of the city budget -- two thirds of the budget of the city. the other education. where do our priorities lie? don texas.is the wall street journal looked at job markets across the u.s. and rating them on hotness as they call it. they found number one on that list was the austin round rock

this area. unemployment rate is the percent. labor force is 76%. -- 70%. that is followed by san jose. a low unemployment rate and high labor force participation. salt lake city following that. then the boston area. orlandoive on the list, , florida. those areas have the highest job potentials. maybe you live in one of those areas. .hare your thoughts online this is joe in staten island. on ssd.i am retired

to typing school. i know a lot of people in construction. trade school. not just high school and college. a lot of people at trade school. thank you. host: russell in florida. he says he is making more. caller: how are you doing? host: fine, thanks. you are on. caller: hi. host: you are on the air. caller: how are you doing? host: fine, thank you. you say you are making more than last year. why? what do you do? [indiscernible] you are making more than you did last year? caller: yes, sir.

host: thank you for calling. back to that wall street journal site. rating,st job market rochester, new york. 4.5% unemployment, 60.4% they were force participation. growth,comes to job also buffalo, niagara falls. michigannd dearborn, coming in at 21. cleveland, ohio. ark,w 49, new york jersey city. in columbus, ohio, mary jane.

caller: hello. i worked 80 hours in one job every week. all my life until six years ago, plus a part-time job of 25 hours a week. now i am 68. i am a cancer patient. social security, $65,000, $20,000 every three weeks with infusion. $18,000 in medicare because they sent me a paper on it. i am going to have to stop my treatment because i don't have any more money in my medicare.

i worked 80 hours a week as a security officer and 25 hours a week managing a building. host: how did you manage that schedule? caller: i did not mind it. i love working. i would still beginning at if i was not disabled. host: john in ohio. go ahead. caller: i am making a little bit more. i dialed the wrong number. i am on social security. here is what i wanted to do, i wanted to call and correct the man from ohio who said he was making minimum wage. $e minimum wage in ohio is 8.55. host: tell me about your job and work experience. security am on social

also. i got the 2.8%. everybody on social security got that. if you look at the country as a whole, a lot of people got a raise. i spent 25 years in the rubber industry. we had a union, and just about every year, you could see our wages going up. retired. host: would you say that about the people in the industry now? caller: the union now is nothing like it was when i was working in akron. you could leave one shop, and by the evening, you would be working in another. that is john in akron, ohio, telling about his experience. it was on the house side

yesterday that an effort to raise the federal minimum wage. from npr, a bill to raise the 25 to $15age from $7. an hour has cleared a legislative hurdle. the issue long embraced by progressives, the bill now also has the support of amazon, which last year committed to paying all of its workers at least $15. the house committee on education, labor wednesday voted raisealong party lines to the federal minimum wage to $15 out somend phase minimum wage for tip workers.

is there is no place in america were a full-time worker was paid the current federal minimum wage can afford and modest two-bedroom apartment. , go ahead. caller: i'm making less than i did a year ago. i am unemployed. i'm a telecommunications engineer. i was laid off from my job at the pentagon. even though the unemployment rate is low, i'm having a difficult time locating a new position. optimistic. there is work out there. still looking for something along the telecommunications field? caller: yes. i do telecommunications, computer systems, technical

writing. i have a wide range of experience. i have done a lot of difficult things. i spent 10 years in iraq and afghanistan is a contract worker for the defense department. perhaps i could pick up something pretty simply i remain optimistic. -- pretty soon. i remain optimistic. host: are you getting when you search for these jobs responses? the you think there is a market out there that will take you in? remain optimistic. i make the applications. online, apply for work the employer since back in automatic response, we have received your resume. we will give it a review. if your application matches

their needs, they start calling you on the phone. if the phone screening passes, you are going to get a face-to-face meeting. the jobs are there. it just takes time and discipline to sit in front of the computer and get those applications. are you getting this phone calls? caller: not yet. september 2018. i have had a couple of phone screenings. unhappily, i have not yet secured a position. success i was the hoping for. host: that is charles in virginia. when it comes to efforts on minimum wage, you saw what was going on on the federal level. daysis a story from recent from maryland. the maryland governor, larry

raising thesed minimum wage to $12 instead of $15. proposedlican governor phasing in a two dollar raise wages by 2022. the statement in which is $10 an hour. lee is next in newcastle, pennsylvania. you are on. caller: i am making more than i was the last couple of years. last year's income went up significantly. back the tax, i got same amount of money even though i got a lot more. my wages have gone up in the

last few years. a lot of it was eaten up by the insurance costs. the last two years, it has not gone up as much. my reason is have been significantly more. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: heating and cooling repair, service technician. do you work for yourself? caller: i work for a company in newcastle. hiring,en it comes to how is that going? caller: i have seen a lot of advertisements for service technicians in the last couple of months. around here, there are a lot of signs everywhere, most every business help wanted. host: when it comes to heating and air-conditioning, do you have to have experience, or are

they willing to hire someone with the mechanical and technical skills, but not the skills directly related to heating and air-conditioning? most of them want training. they will hire people right out of school. we have a few guys that came right out of technical schools. host: what is the hourly rate for someone in your industry? older: around here, i am with a lot of expense, over $20 an hour. went from a good insurance policy, and then when i got obamacare, the cost went up significantly, so my raises were an old by the cost of my share of the health care. the last few years, i had to settle down, and my raises has significantly increase my income. consistent?r work

caller: yeah, i get a little overtime every week, it does not matter what time of year. the company i work for is good, they keep me busy. host: that is pennsylvania. let's go to norman in ohio. go ahead. caller: hello. i make significantly more than i did five years ago. emma'sal ohio, i truck driver -- i am a truck driver. money,who want to make come here. it is here to get. do you drive oil or gasoline, or what do you do? caller: water truck. it is easy work. it is the easiest work i have ever done. i work night shifts. they begged me to work six days week, which i do not.

me $25 an hour. there is overtime on that. cdl, thereot have a is so much other jobs available. they cannot find enough people. it is not's. host: what is the starting rate for a truck driver. with no experience, probably $21. if you have training, and you don't have a cdl and no truck driving experience, you can be an escort. you can drive a car and escort trucks were they have to go. there are opportunities here in the eastern part of the state. it is crazy. they cannot find employees. host: the work is consistent. caller: yes, it is. host: go ahead. caller: the future looks

terrific. they say, we work for eclipse. all the oil companies are here. sayalk to them, and they for the next 10 years, this is solid. host: that is norman's experience in ohio as a truck driver. for the next 12 minutes or so, you can give your thoughts on wages. this is based off the labor report saying wages are up this year compared to last year. are you making more than last year for the same or less? we have heard from all three categories. (202) 748-8000 if you are making more. (202) 748-8001 if you are making less. if you are making the same, (202) 748-8002. in michigan, we will hear from james. caller: hello, pedro. how are you? host: i'm fine.

go ahead. caller: i am making the same amount, which is very low. i work in a bakery, worked as a laborer all my life. i am making about eight dollars an hour. i am retired now. everything in michigan is going up. plants move, the jobs are not there. the wages are low. wage, they pay $25 an hour. the cost of living, you are not making enough.

host: how did you end up working as a baker? school, back high in the 1960's, i did not find no work. this is a standard bakery. i got into that. i stayed there. i get drafted. i went into the military. out, the bakery was not going anywhere. people are buying sweets. i am making about eight dollars an hour. $200 a week, that is not enough. host: what is your work schedule like? i am not working now. i am retired. host: got you. let's go to dawn.

she says she is making less. caller: good morning. i used to be a professor in the arts programs around the united states. a lot of universities got cut. cut in terms got of disappearing programs. you have to join to programs with another to make the program feasible, or professors have to take a pay cut. the big thing is there was a time when adjuncts would make a salary. if you worked part-time, you could make $34,000. the national thing in north carolina where other states were already doing it. in 2007, we got a new chancellor. his job was to take it to the point where an adjunct would be played for credit. -- paid per credit.

you are teaching two classes. a lot of adjuncts are living in poverty. you have to get food stamps and teach.assist to a lot of pressers -- professors don't retire until their 70's. they have to go find other jobs in order to make a living. ,he whole standard of teacher student, office hours. that is why retention problems are high in a lot of colleges and so forth. u.work for hbc you face age discrimination. i went overseas to work for a civil rights organization. i have been out of work for seven years. i have been substitute teaching in the schools. that is supporting whatever they

need me to do. it is very difficult to be a issues, ager racial determination. my degree might not seem equal to a white woman who i have the same credentials or more. it is a lot of factors. host: to be an adjunct professor, what education level do you need? what does that cost? still: as an adjunct, you need a masters. sometimes you can be a phd and only make $30,000 entry-level. did i answer your question? yourself, do you see going back to the college world eventually? caller: it is my hope, but i don't have a lot of confidence in it because of age

discrimination and nepotism. a position is posted, but they are hiring friends. .t is a big game there are a lot of factors to it. i don't have a lot of confidence. ust: that is dawn telling educator,ence as an professor. we have heard from a wide variety of people as far as their experiences and wages in the larger picture of trying to get a sense of if your wages have gone up or gone down. it is (202) 748-8000 if you are making more. (202) 748-8001 if you are making less. (202) 748-8002 if you are making the same. matters, theonomic latest when it comes to the u.s.-china tops on trade, mr. trump's decision to break off

those talks sparked concerns that the chinese president could be pressured with a take it or leave it demand. as a result china wants the summit to be more of a signing ceremony that a final negotiation session that could break down. what the chinese minister wants to say is for president xi jinping to go to the u.s. for a visit. it also quotes terry branstad, , the date to china has not been finalized. negotiators need to further narrow the gap in their position. there has beened significant progress.

we are not there yet. we are closer than we have been for a long time. in texas, we will hear from mike in houston. go ahead. caller: good morning. the situation in the engineering field is that there is a lot of pressure on engineers, downward pressure on engineers. the primary cause is lots of work. lots of work. gulf coast refineries, retro chemical plants. test petrochemical plants. if you look at the labor market, it is pretty tight for construction workers. for engineers, there is strong downward pressure due to off shoring jobs. with 3000ts come in engineers and sometimes 90% of the jobs are offshore usability

engineers here have the intellectual knowledge to develop those projects. the jobs go overseas to what they call the low cost center. in the engineering field, engineers out of college starting at $25 an hour and going up to $75 an hour for more experienced engineers. jobsare off shoring the for nine dollars and hour. there is tremendous pressure. employers do not want to pay engineers here. host: what countries are getting the work? caller: india, the philippines. primarily india and the philippines. a little bit in south america, some in china. how do you stay

competitive in your market? caller: how does who stay competitive? host: how do you stay competitive? caller: employers? host: you as a worker. caller: how do you stay competitive and make yourself employable? you have to work extremely long hours. you have to work 60 or 70 hour weeks. you have got to be at the top of your field to where the employers will see value in higher you -- hiring you. engineering occupations, designs, they are not going to pay $40 an hour for that when $15 an hour,

$10 an hour overseas. you have to be at the top of your field, top of your game and willing to sacrifice quality of life to work these 60 hour weeks to be very flexible in what you do you where employers will see value in keeping you on. host: that is mike in texas. from pennsylvania, aaron is next. high. i work in the waste industry. i have been working at the past three years. since i came on board, i have seen raises each year. we are also growing as a company and industry as a whole. economyicates that the is doing better, and people are spending more money. there is more food waste. there is more hostile good

waste. -- household good waste. host: what specifically do you do? caller: safety management. host: tell me about your job. what are your responsibilities? caller: i develop training programs for the employees. , safetyt training tailgate talks, do site audit inspections. host: how did you get involved in the industry? caller: i went to college for it. host: is that something you need a college degree for? educationpecialized when it comes to people with jobs like yours? caller: no. there are people in my field who

did not have a college degree specifically, but it certainly helps. based on your skills and experience in other applicable fields you can certainly get into safety management without having a degree. host: that is erin in pennsylvania who was involved in waste management, how she is making more when it comes to her wages. let's hear from stafford, virginia. judy will be next. caller: good morning. quickly, i work in higher education. my wages went up but that is because i switched jobs closer to northern virginia. i am in the i.t. industry. the bigger issue is in this field i have three masters degrees, but my student loan debt is still out of the roof. they are still charging 7.5% interest. i calculated if i died and came back three times, i still would

not be able to pay off the student loans. host: do you need that level of education to do what you do? caller: yes, you do if you want to ever be able to teach full-time. it is very competitive. in the i.t. field the learning never stops. you have to continue to get more and more certification to stay competitive. host: what was the difference in weight bob by moving or working -- in wage bump compared to where you were working previously? caller: 13%. host: is that the college system you're working with? what do you attribute that to? think: experience and i the closer towards washington, d.c. you get, the salaries increase. host: is it a field you would recommend people go into? caller: yes if it is something

you enjoy. the i.t. field is always going to be there. it has to be something you enjoy doing. you have to enjoy learning because you will never stop in this field. host: reading, pennsylvania is where bill is. go ahead. made $8,000 more this year than i did last year but i did not notice it in my check. i was surprised when i did my taxes and i found out. here in pa, the taxes keep going up. it is not easy to make ends meet. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: i drive a truck. a tractor-trailer. i have been doing it for 37 years. week.t work a 40 hour i work 60 hours a week. it is not easy.

those numbers you were showing for how much people make, i'm assuming that is gross, not matt. -- not net. host: that is probably right. i don't have a specific figure in front of me. go ahead. caller: here in pa, we have a democratic governor. gas prices keep going up. property taxes keep going up. school taxes keep going up. aw he's talking about starting salary for teachers is around $30,000 a year. he is trying to push through a bill to make starting salary $45,000 a year for a teacher. which i think is totally ridiculous. host: we had a previous truck driver call from ohio. he said he can work consistently if he wants. the opportunity is there.

that's in ohio. not similar in pennsylvania? caller: it depends what you're doing. i work for a company that delivers insulation. we lost a lot of business but some of that was incompetence from management that we lost the business. we still don't have a customers like we used to have. the housing market is supposed to be booming but we have not seen that much of an increase in what we are delivering. host: have you considered driving or another type of supply across the united states or jumping to another company? because i'm home basically every night. i don't want to go over the road. that is not the lifestyle i want. switching truck driving jobs is difficult because the problems

you have to go through, filling out applications, it is a pain. it is not worth it to try to find another job. it is not easy. host: that is bill in pennsylvania. we would hear from wayne in richmond, virginia. good morning. caller: how are you doing? i have been watching you will long time. sayingdy is calling in this and that, that is their opinion. host: ok. caller: it is pretty bad out here. host: tell us why. caller: you can see it on the highways. you have people on disability living off of $1030 a month. you have people dying, starting and it is just like venezuela but they don't to show you on the news. everybody does not live in the elitist d.c. the states take all your money,

the county's take all your money. the municipalities have gone crazy. the poor have nowhere to go. host: we are talking about wages. how does this year compared to last for you? terrible. i'm living off $1030 a month. food is astronomical. lights. you haveecent person to get all your money away, if you have any. it is bad out here. no matter how they try to dress it up it is really bad out here. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: i used to do carpet, strip floors. a lot of people came from other countries, paying them under the table. it is tough out here. good but the same thing is going on in venezuela

that's going on right here. host: carl in illinois. caller: how are you this morning? i am an older guy. i am 60. i was retired 11 years ago right before the great recession. i decided to take a couple of years back and wanted to come back in 2009. nobody was really hiring but over the last five or six years i started a part-time business for chemical distribution. then i went into truck driving part-time for a friend of mine. 1099s go from $30,000, $40,000 five years ago to over $100,000. taxes and expenses are going through the roof. last year i paid $12,000 in my own medical insurance.

fromoperty taxes went $3500 to over $6,000 last year and a little house it only cost $120,000. there is work out there. we are having a hard time feeling entry-level jobs. if you want to work, the work is there. host: from the increases in wages you saw, was that coming from the chemical side or the truck driving side? caller: all of it. the jobs in the last two years are there. the tax breaks i have seen on my small businesses were wonderful last year. i am making more in keeping more. -- and keeping more. if i could keep the expense side under control, i would be doing way better. host: tell me about the chemical side. what do you do? caller: i basically by large bolt shipments of -- bulk

shipments of chemicals and break them down for manufacturers. i supply pyrotechnic manufacturers. guys that make custom fireworks in the united states. field.highly specialized i have been doing it for about 10 years. started out may be doing $20,000, $30,000 a year gross. and now it's got to hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales a year. we make about a 22% margin. host: what kind of got you into that field? caller: a wayward childhood. it was my hobby. fireworks was my hobby. during the fourth of july i'm a professional pirate technician. technician- pirate -- pyrotechnician. a friend of mine owned the company.

when i got laid off in 2007, i took a couple of years off the trouble. i was well often had savings. he said you want to work for me part-time? that's what i did. luckily i had savings and i could live off of it. i retrained myself and retooled. i turned 60 last year. i am still saving for retirement. if you want to work hard and work weird jobs and ought ho -- odd hours, the work is there. host: carl giving us his experience. clauden mississippi -- in mississippi. caller: i live in a rule state. -- rural state but i live in our from memphis, tennessee. season arers in the

doing the agricultural thing. in the wintertime doing whatever it takes to make a living. it's all about training. we need a lot more training and stuff like that. -- you can't help a man up, don't bring him down. we see a lot of that. and the drugs and stuff. and he isally skilled brought down, we need our laws to fit the times. if we can get the times, we can make this country great. it's about helping one another. host: thank you for that. tell me what kind of work you do. caller: i'm a retired riverboat captain.

i trained 13 pilots while i was in the field. i worked for 35 years. some of them guys today are $1400 a day, but that is working 12 hours a day running the mississippi river and the ohio. host: did you ever see anything close to that? caller: yes. ago i retired 15 years was making $600 an hour -- a day. the guys i have trained are but we haveely well got to get back to basic training on the job. this college is all right. get through high school. get your job, make your fortune and then go to college. 401(k)s.ple talk about

they are in these 401(k)s they can't shift or sell and they are brought down. host: back to the riverboat, how did you get involved in that? off workingarted for my daddy, a commercial fisherman. that is on the river. he was a riverboat captain. i worked my way up from the deckhand to a mate, to an engineer, to a utility man where i was the engineer and mate, and then i went into the pilot house. it is on-the-job training. it's a great life but you're away from home just like oilfield workers. if you're willing to stick it out and stay off drugs, you can make a wonderful life. host: anybody who wants to be a riverboat captain, is that basically the way it happens?

on-the-job training? caller: right. there are more regulations. you have to make your credentials. nowadays to move up. telling usis claude about his weight experience. you can give us your take. if you say you were making more than you did last year. (202) 748-8001 if you say you're making less. if you are making the same, call us at (202) 748-8002. this is in ohio, mel. go ahead give it -- go ahead. caller: good morning. my call is concerning the pensioners. people up and age on a fixed income -- up in age on a fixed

income. the utilities, medicals, they have to buy cars. in our state we have a new republican governor. he is initiating more gas taxes. meanwhile the companies are using the bankruptcy laws. they are not holding up to their liabilities to the pensioners. they are giving parachute packages to executives. that is a reward for failure. meanwhile the people that worked for them for 30-40 years, they throw them under the bus and walk away. comment is the people on pensions are making the same money. meanwhile the cost of living is accelerating. host: is that your place in life? are you one of pension? caller: yes, i am.

worker in the coal fields. hillve been up on capitol and are trying to resolve a problem with these bankrupt companies that are going to extinguish our pensions in the near future. these people -- i am 70. my buddies i worked with for years, they are in their 80's. these people cannot go out and find other employment. host: when you were a coal miner what was your outwardly -- hourly wage like? atler: i started out at 1967 $4.20 per hour. when i got out of the field, it was $30 an hour. host: you are saying you would think people in the industry

today are making that kind of money or not? caller: it is pretty much similar. the wages have not soared in any way, i don't think. the minersline was were promised a pension in 1946 when the government took over the mines. we were promised a pension for life. meanwhile these corrupt coal companies, they are bailing out and the reseller companies to another party and they shrug their responsibilities. it is a contractual thing. host: thank you for the call. kathleen is next in mississippi. -- minimum wage in mississippi -- host: could you get closer to your phone or go to a different area? we are purely picking you up.

are you there? caller: yes. it is $7.25 an hour, the minimum wage. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: you get paid every two weeks. we have two big plants. dollar general starts off at $10 an hour. worked.ot i get social security and medicaid. i get like $800 a month. likeaxes on the house is $1000. it went up. cost-of-living went up. under the affordable care act, obamacare, we pay more now than we did because it keeps on rising up.

stylist.of mine is a is now $29. host: let's go to ohio. this is tom. caller: thanks for taking my call. a loted to let you know of callers to tell you they are not getting any tax refunds -- my wife and i were married. we don't have any earned income so we take a standard deduction because we have no mortgage to deduct. last year the standard deduction wasa couple filing jointly $15,000. under the neutral tax law --the -- we receivedaw an additional -- we paid $500 last year to the federal. this year we get $1400 refund.

we are looking at $2000 gained because of tax cuts. host: are you currently working? caller: we are both retired. we have iras and social security. i was working with anheuser-busch. my wife worked for the limited. host: what kind of money were you making it that time? caller: the union job, i was making about $60,000 a year. my wife is making about $30,000 . host: the previous caller talked about the power of the union when it comes to making sure workers are still getting good wages. what would you say to that? caller: i believe the unions have given a lot of power for wage increases because of their contracts. be a, union jobs can

little funny, like the guy said when they sell out they don't hold up with retirement programs. people can lose money but anheuser-busch did a good job. everybody got their money. can we have a 401(k) that it will do to an ira so that is helping in retirement -- that i rolled into an ira so that is helping in retirement. ast: you can roll those in few minutes when it comes to this conversation, if you make more or less for the same last year. we will hear from steve. good morning. caller: good morning, pedro. how have you been? host: fine. caller: i'm about 65 years old now. semiretired. about five years ago, after listening to extensive radio i decided to make a change in career even at this late

lifestage. with the unique ability to convince people that black is white, i have been able to make gobs of money on a monthly basis. the only requirements needed was that i be fat, white, balding and a draft dodger. host: let's go to know what in florida. he says he is making less. caller: how are you doing? theselistening to some of callers. everybody has their own idiosyncrasies. yes, i make less. it is not because the pain went down. it is because the rent went up, utilities went out and things like that. cuttribute that to this tax

that is a shell game. theou get me a tax break, section eight and a rent goes up and the utilities cars andd the price of things go up because of tariffs, you don't have that as income anymore. you are just passing it on. that is basically why i am making less because i have to pass it on. host: are you currently working? caller: yeah. i'm a brick mason. is this, about that you have to have equipment to do all those things. now thaty a mixer

three months ago, same model cost $2700. now it costs $3800. the mixer atr have $2700. host: when it comes to the amount of work in jacksonville, is there a steady supply of work in that industry? caller: no because what i call the wall street subdivisions best they have to be are building 300 to 400 houses with substandard workmanship. you might have a program on that, how these houses are falling apart in jacksonville. the concrete is cracking up. host: that is noah. thank you for all the callers

that participated in the first segment. one of the things we will talk about was the recent executive order signed by president trump looking at stemming the rise of veteran suicide. joining us is colonel elspeth cameron ritchie of medstar washington hospital center. later, our spotlight magazine segment. bill robinson talks about changes to school nutrition standards and the role the dairy industry plays in that. those conversations coming up on washington journal. ♪ >> the work in the pacific, a cure for measles, and the life and legacy of dwight eisenhower. this weekend on american history tv. today at 1:00 p.m. eastern, scholars on world war ii's first major pacific allied offensive, the battle of guadalcanal. >> for the work in public it can

to symbolize the first test of the manhood of the generation they had to fight the war -- that had to fight the war. >> with a rash of outbreaks in measles, a look back at the 1964 film on the history of measles and the development of a vaccine. >> the results are evident. the monkeys not vaccinated developed measles. the ones like this one that were given the experiment of vaccine show no signs of measles, that they developed protective antibodies. now knows they have developed for the first time a vaccine that will provide safe protection against measles. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on the presidency, professor and author william hitchcock on the age of eisenhower. >> dwight eisenhower was the most popular, most respected, most admired man of that period.

he served the country as president and he had massive approval from the public. his average approval rating while president for eight years with 65%. the next president who comes close to that was bill clinton at 55%. and then ronald reagan at 50%. they are way in the rearview mirror. >> this weekend on c-span3. >> washington journal continues. host: we are joined by colonel elspeth cameron ritchie, a doctor who is retired. a chief of psychiatry at medstar washington hospital center here to talk about better mental health and good morning to you. guest: it is a pleasure to be here. host: the president has had an interest in the topic of veteran suicide. can you talk about with the white house is interested in

doing and what needs to be done? guest: the rate of suicide among active-duty military members and among veterans has been climbing since about 2004. is 20 veterans a day who commit suicide, an enormous number. way too many. there have been a lot of initiatives that have taken place to reduce the suicide number. i don't think it will be an easy task. one of the things i like about the proposal is it seeks to engage the community. whot 70% of veterans suicide have not sought treatment at the v.a. we can talk about that later. that means what we need to do is engage everyone, not just the veterans health administration in the problem of reducing veteran suicide. host: let's hear a little bit about what the president has to say about this issue. [video] president trump: prevents

initiative, the president's roadmap to empower veterans and and the national tragedy of suicide. this order creates a new cabinet-level task force cochaired by secretary wilkie. it will create a comprehensive national public health roadmap that brings together the federal and local governments, along with private sector partners to improve the quality of life for our veterans and turn the tide on this terrible crisis. we are being helped greatly by our strong economy. our economy is very powerful. it makes it a lot easier for people to get jobs, including veterans. a lot of companies are actually giving priority at our request to veterans and their happy with the results. -- they are happy with the results. it is charged with developing a strategy so we can effectively

identify, intervene and help veterans during a time of need. host: if this is a roadmap, what is the best thing for the task force to ask? what would you advise for things to look into? guest: i'm glad the president mentioned jobs. a lot of people think it is all mental health. i have often said a good job is the most powerful mental health intervention. that is a piece of it. access to care is a piece of it. both within the veterans administration, the veterans health administration, and without. i think it will be important for the community to be there. some of my colleagues said there should be no wrong door. any place a veteran goes to get help he should be able to get it rather than be turned away. unfortunately one of the realities is getting into the v.a. system is daunting. you need a lot of paperwork. that is justified.

but if you're struggling and not oring the right paperwork, perhaps having the wrong kind of discharge from the military, that can be very hard to do. we need to throw the doors open throughout the country for our veterans. host: when it comes to the actual mental health care, is this best done within the walls of the v.a.? is certainlya. specialized in the treatment of posttraumatic stress disorder and other psychological consequences of combat. it is not all ptsd. i want to talk about moral injury in a little while. we need to have our civilian counterparts -- now i'm a civilian at washington hospital center. we all need to learn how to treat ptsd. andrtunately there are -- fortunately there are a lot of resources for providers to learn

about it. host: if you want to ask questions, if you're a veteran, (202) 748-8000. all others, (202) 748-8001. you can tweak your thoughts -- .weet your thoughts at @cspanwj guest: moral injury grew after the end of the vietnam war. it is not a diagnosis but it is ptsd.igned with it is feelings of shame or guilt related to your buddy dying but he survived, why? often it is related to the killing of civilians. when you were manning a checkpoint and a car barrels towards you and it doesn't stop and you are -- and you do what you are positive.

you open the door and it is three little children you have killed. veterans are committing suicide in the parking lots of the v.a. you have come back either you don't get the benefits you feel you deserve for that you feel maltreated. the v.a. in many cases has become a symbol for veterans of not being treated well. the problem with all these brands of moral injury is providers do not tend to ask about them. we have a checklist for ptsd, not moral injury. it can be to incredible shame and guilt. data but iep good think that is a driver for many suicides. host: what is the treatment like? guest: a lot of it is forming a good therapeutic relationship with your patient and asking about it. we don't have medications that

treat moral injury. we do have a variety of techniques that we use for ptsd and other things that may be helpful. part of it is just talking about it with other people. sometimes veterans worry they committed a war crime and they don't want to talk about it, especially in the service. they don't want to share it with their spouses or their families. i kill the kid and i have a kid that age -- it can be very difficult to wrestle with that piece of that. host: therapy only interacting with the doctor and dr. and the group therapy to understand the same type of situation? guest: when i talk about treatment for ptsd, including moral injury in that, i talk about three buckets of treatment. one is medication. we have a lot of medications we use for ptsd. not for moral injury itself. one bucket is talking therapy and the third is everything else.

everything else includes a lot of integrated approaches, alternative approaches. things like meditation, yoga, acupuncture, working with service animals, exercise. all of these can help. i based the treatment depending on the veteran, what they like. some people relate well to talking to their dog or cat. that sounds funny but their dog can understand them in a way they may not be able to share the same things with their spouse. i would like to come back to medication. that is the treatment we have for ptsd. unfortunately many medications havee and are fda approved side effects including sexual side effects. this is my little soapbox this morning. providers do not ask their patients that much about sexual side effects. ,f you were placed on an ssri

the type of mild antidepressant, it can cause you to not be able to get interaction or have -- desire.rection or have not being able to get an -- can bean be o a very powerful driver to end it all. host: the first thing to be prescribed usually or is talk therapy first? as far as the typical way of going about it, with the approach? guest: i talked about the range of options. many of our veterans don't want to try medication, and for better or worse we know they work so we tend to prescribe them. there is cognitive behavioral therapy and exposure therapy. we had trials that show it work if you stick with it. what we find is all the veterans

to get to those kind of therapies, and only about one third of veterans get there, only about a third make it through because they find a treatment so distasteful. we may start with one of those treatments if the veteran is --ing to try, only or we may try another. i always recommend for everybody is more exercise. sometimes people are in pain or disability. -- some of the medications cause weight gain. they have twisted their needs, their backs. they have some disability. that can be a combination of pain and disability in ptsd. many veterans have traumatic brain injury.

my former boss used to say, is not so much that ptsd and tbi are the signature wounds of the of thet it is a blast signature weapon of the work and the blast causes facial disagreement, indications, genital mutilation, ptsd. you have to treat all of those aspects. host: our guest is colonel elspeth cameron ritchie, currently the chief of psychiatry at medstar washington hospital center to talk about veterans mental health. the first call is from ohio. douglas, go ahead. caller: hui. first of all, this mental health you are talking about, i get 15 minutes a month with my psychiatrist. i have been on a suicidal watch since 1974. this medication you're talking about, they have me on four pi -- 40 pills a day.

i vibrate when i walk. when you talk about help, all they have done for me is make everything worse. post-traumatic stress disorder. stop calling it ptsd. it is a stress disorder. all the v.a. does is increase my stress. i expect to get help and all i get is times up, you got to go, have a nice life, bye. that is it. i go to the date and the a medical center, the second largest in the united states. they are even have the mental health clinic in the hospital. guest: you brought up a lot of really good points. let me hit on a couple of them. there is a national and international shortage of psychiatrists. i know the v.a. is frantically trying to hire more. my hospital is trying to hire more. there is not enough time with the psychiatrist or psychologist

or other licensed mental health counselors. you are absolutely right. the second point you bring up which is important is you say you are on 40 different pills. i would want to have somebody sit down with you and talk about other approaches besides just medication. the medicationto arena because we have trials that show it works for some people, but we need to explore the full range of options available. host: let's hear from stephen in missouri, a veteran. caller: yes. i'm an old vietnam vet. i fought over there in 1968 and 1969. everybody says they did not recognize me or know me. i was in denial for over 40 years. luckily my wife stood by me. lord knows why she did not leave me. she could have. about seven years ago i finally broke down with a private

psychologist and i went to the v.a.d i got on that -- the and i got on medicine. i plead to all veterans, if you were in the shape i was in, get on some medicine. it has calmed me. i am not the person i once was. i am going by my experience. i'm choking up right now because vietnam vetave two friends that committed suicide. beg give you, try it -- i of you, try it. it worked for me. guest: thank you for your service and all the veterans out there listening, thank you for your service. you said you were in vietnam a little over 50 years ago. that's important. 1968 was the tet offensive. what i have seen was a lot of veterans who were over there, not just at that time but as they age and in the come up on

the anniversary of the tet offensive, they find many other symptoms come back. sometimes this is confusing. why am i thinking about it now? for the anon generation, many are retiring -- for the vietnam generation, many are retiring, have health problems, have lost a spouse. the issues can resurface. you pointed out a different experience. medication really helped you. i agree with you. it is something you should have, a conversation with somebody who understands and see if medication is right for you. it is right for lots of people but you have to talk about the side effects which is what i've mentioned before, especially disconcerting is the sexual side effects. make sure if you have them that you know it is the medication and not an issue with your wife for example. host: you talked about the hesitancy of getting help. is that typical?

guest: veterans and active-duty service members are proud people. we are trained to suck it up and drive on. yes, it is the experience for many people that they don't want to the cal -- seek help. sometimes they will seek help from other veterans. that is a way that veterans service organizations, american legion, vfw and others can be so helpful. host: there is still a stigma is seeking help. does that exist from 10-15 years ago? guest: of course. people talk about making statement nonexistent. i don't think people ever get there. we can reduce barriers to care. military is not alone in that. police, firefighters and other macho professions, where you are trained to lead. you want to be perceived as strong. it is tough. it is something you can say you want to end stigma but it is

tough to do. host: should veterans suicide be considered or listed as a casualty of war they fought in? guest: i think they are considered a casualty of war. the military has done more recently to honor that. in the vietnam war they did not have people with names on the will be now they treated with full military honors. the survivors will get benefits. that has been another contentious issue. i think the military is trying its best to do the right thing and they recognize the interplay between post-traumatic stress disorder, physical pain and disability, traumatic brain injury and suicide. in my experience i found the army and the other services were very interested in trying to reduce the number of suicides. host: 24 years in uniform.

you retired from the army in 2010. no currently the chief of psychiatry at medstar washington hospital center. brett from nevada, go ahead. caller: how are you doing? guest: i am doing very well. there was a race going on today in washington and it is gridlock. i will let you comment as to whether that is new or not. u -- i am a usmc -- i was in laos and cambodia. i have hung myself twice. guest: you have done what was? yourself twice.

i see shadows. psychiatrist that they moved him to another place and now i don't have one. what can i do as a veteran of this country? guest: eddie tried your local veterans health administration hospital or out vision clinics? they have something called vet centers, your storefront th v.a.'s. caller: the lady said she wanted to lock me up for 30 days. i'm not going to do that. guest: i don't have it easy answer for you right now.

i think that could be part of the virtue of the task force the president is doing, making sure it is easy to locate help. i have already mentioned the psychiatry shortage. that is a tough one. we need to train more people in medical school. we need to train them in psychiatric residencies and psychology internships and social workers. countries, and the u.s. is one, we start up treating infectious diseases and wounds. we have most of those, not all, under control. we need to train the mental health workforce. you said you were on zoloft. prescribedommon sfri for ptsd, but it doesn't work for everybody. i recommend you explore the range of options out there. often it is two or three acupuncture -- a

acupuncture has been proven to be helpful with ptsd. maybe a talking therapy in an individual or group. again, thank you for your service. once a marine, always a marine. host: robert wilkie, have you had a chance to talk with him about these issues? guest: not directly, but i have published a lot in the literature, including on the treatment of ptsd. i have a book coming out in april which is the first book about veterans and mental health . that is not out yet. we have other related books. it tries to put everything we know about veterans and mental health together in one place. host: from seattle, judy. caller: hi. husbandling because my is a retired combat veteran. it was jungle war, not the desert were. when he came home it was a

different war up until then. they came home from war and he retreated as he rose and the -- and they were treated as heroes. home and you came after you just left hell you arrived at the airport and , they said very bad things to you. that was the greeting you got. and, i don't think there is any sense of guilt. there is a sense of betrayal. they did with the country told him to do. they did their duty with honor and that is what they came home to. and nobody even want to talk about them. the best thing to do was to help normalize them, not to treat them as this or that or anything else.

now we see the people coming home from war and it has changed completely again. now we see them all as victims. we say you have been to war, you are damaged. the best thing is to try to normalize everybody to say you have come back. yes, you still have memories and nightmares 50 years later. it does not go away. but you learn to live with them. if you need additional help, for god's sake get it. guest: he pointed out some very important things. the terrible way of vietnam veterans retreated when they came back. it is so much better now. one of the things i miss about being on active duty is when i was in an airport. people would come up to me and thanked me. that. does not get we appreciated our men and women

from the longest war since 9/11. having said that, there is more to be done. your point about service members not being victims. service members don't consider themselves victims. they feel proud of their service. they feel proud of what they have done and they want to be acknowledged as somebody who has served their country, but don't pity them. host: we have someone off of twitter. will with a question for you. vets cannot be with her doctors all the time. is there any at-home treatment? will, there is a lot of it on the internet. the national center for post-traumatic stress disorder, has put out aa. lot you can access on an app. you will see a lot of materials.

other folks have put up stuff as well. host: i surprised by the length of time people are still dealing with these symptoms of being in conflict? guest: i am not surprised. i think the general public may be. it has been 50 years since the tet offensive. it is our world war ii heroes where we think about the great war, they came back to a very welcoming society where the bulk of society had gone off to war and come back together. that is one thing about world war i and world war ii. people were deployed as the unit, they served for three or four years and they came back together and integrated. in the korean war and vietnam war, people went over as individuals and came back. he did not have that support. now we have gone back to deploying is a unit. in most cases returning as a unit. that is much better. the reserve and guard don't return as a unit and the come back often, depending on the

unit, off into a place that does not understand them and they try reintegrate. it is much easier at fort worth norfork raglan for campbell or can't was you. -- the rate wishing of suicide is unacceptably high. host: one of the events this week was the republican senator in a hearing on sexual assault talking about her own experiences. i want to play a little what she had to say. [video] >> the perpetrators of these power in profound ways. in one case, i was preyed upon an raped by a superior officer. i stayed silent for many years, later in my career as the military grappled with scandals and are inadequate responses, i felt the need to let people know i was a survivor. i was horrified at how my attempt to share my experiences were handled.

i almost separated from the air force at 18 years over my despair. like many victims, i felt the system was raping me all over again. guest: it is very sad and it is true. i have been studying how people react to sexual assault since my first duty assignment. we had a number of women who were assaulted. not just women assaulted. it is men as well. it is harder for men to come out and talk about their assault. i think the military has tried to do better. is not just a military problem. we have seen in the civilian world more vocal over the last two years. the challenge is you are often in an isolated environment, everyone knows each other. there is not necessarily an outside person to tell. there are major

consequences for your job. you make it transferred to another unit. the perpetrator may get transferred and the a get mad at you because he's a well-liked guy. it is tough. i think the military is trying but we're not there yet. i have been retired for nine alwaysbut once green green. host: tea has written intimacy post injury, plus women at war. tim in minnesota. caller: hi, good morning. veteran, a cold war veteran. i was a medic in the army. when i got affected duty i went to the reserves and signed up for a program.

they treated me as a vocational nurse and it worked at the v.a. for five years. excuse me, i'm getting over a cold. experience. the main reason is i did not have to engage in combat experience. the vetsdering, for coming home, some don't have anybody. i was wondering if there was a program. i'm sure if i did a little vet being there for another vet when they come home if they need somebody. oflight of the shortage psychiatrists and doctors and nurses throughout the country, i think that would be a good idea. it gives them somebody that

knows that they care about what they did. host: thank you. appreciate it. guest: so, that's a great idea. there is a lot of effort already in that direction. much of it is local. did you say you were from minnesota? host: he was. guest: i would urge you to go out there and see what is there. if they don't have one locally, go ahead and start one. organizationse often have things. d not to liken going to smoky bars at 11:00 in the morning. vfw and others have tried to have programs for younger vets. looking your community for returning veterans.

i would not try hanging out the shingles sank mental health available for vets. they tend to shy away from that. i recommend a softball game, a picnic. there are a lot of groups that have started adventure things with high adrenaline that are fairly safe like bungee jumping. i don't know how safe it is, but see if you can appeal to them and focus on the bonds of camaraderie, cohesion that they often miss when they leave the military units to come when they live their military unit come home. host: one mark call from kansas, this is lester. caller: yes, hello. host: you are on. caller: yes. i have ptsd from the military and vietnam war. i got a know their form of ptsd. i want to know -- another form of ptsd. gott: i want to know -- i

beat by the police. first they put a gun to my head and tried to kill me, then they see that i was not dead, and they drug me out of the car and beat me half to death. i felt myself passing out several times. does policeis, withing have anything to do what i think about police everyday? i think about police every day, all day. anything -- it does police beatings have anything to do with the ptsd i got from vietnam? guest: a couple of important points. have a variety of

different trauma, you could have a history of beating, in combat, have a police beating. exposure to have one thing that is traumatic. the more exposure, depending on the person, the more likely they will be to develop ptsd. what you are describing here is what we call intrusive memories. and yes. people have intrusive memories and the nightmares of trauma. yournot say more about situation, but it sounds like it would be helpful for you to get some treatment. this is not for you only, but for every body. if you have got treatment at once and it has not worked, try again. our medications, therapies, are alternative alternative- our approaches. go out and research it, there is

something you can do, medication, so just because you have tried it once and it has not worked, go back and seek treatment again. host: we have spoken a lot to veterans. for those outside of the world of the military, what is one thing you want them to understand particularly to suicide and how veterans are dealing mentally? guest: twofold. veterans do not like to be thought of as ticking time bombs. appreciate that they are human beings, american sons and daughters. sometimes they are scarred as a part of the world. it is a part of the growth process. appreciate them. it is easy to say, thank you for your service, that kind of rings hollow. maybe, what can i do to help. if they are, struggling financially, they do

not want handouts, but they do want a way to support themselves. host: kernel elspeth cameron ritchie -- colonel elspeth retired andhie is served as the chief assistant to special mental health to the attorney general. thank you for your time. guest: thank you. and thank you everybody who served. spotlight on magazine segment coming up. we will talk to bloomberg news investigative journalist peter robinson, and later in the program, john koza of the national popular vote efforts on how to change votes given to the electoral college. --h partitions coming up o those conversations coming up on "washington journal." you guys had a happy ending

this week, you passed hr1, but it was a harry week before that. you guys were turned around the axle on this issue of congresswoman omar, there were some heated moments inside your caucus meetings, and this attracted a lot of attention from reporters. what were the lessons that were learned of this week by the leadership, the caucus about your new majority and how you forward? need to move a goodt, democrats had week this week and we have accomplished more in eight weeks then our republican colleagues did in eight years. but when you look at this week alone, when there is a challenge, you have to face it. you come together and have conversations about differences , and the resolution this week was an example. what we all learned is we need to be communicating more. we need to be thoughtful about everything that is being said.

is thatlso appreciated it showed that a democratic led caucus under the leadership of speaker nancy pelosi is not going to walkway from those challenges. , whicholution this week was clear about anti-semitism, islamophobia, white supremacy, and standing up to hate and bigotry, it was important for the caucus and congress to move. what is concerning is that 23 republican colleagues voted against that resolution including the number three in republican leadership. i think that illustrates more dysfunction on the republican side than on the great work that we continue to build upon on the democratic side. >> "washington journal" continues. robinson ofs peter

bloomberg news serving as an investigative journalist. we are talking about his recent piece in the magazine. he is joining us from seattle. good morning. guest: thanks for having me. setting upmeans of the gist of your piece, you talk about the changes to school lunches and school meals under the obama administration, and the role and relation to that to the dairy interest -- industry. guest: it is the latest turn in haslunch room more which been raging since the obama administration passed the healthy, hunger free kids act. it required more fruits investable and less fats in foods. it week after he was confirmed as agriculture secretary, sonny perdue, president trump's agricultural secretary went to a great school in virginia and said they would be rolling back these rules. one of the first thing that

changed was a little-known but very important set of standards for the dairy industry which is that under the healthy hunger free kids act, the milk served in lunch rooms had to be skim. before, you could serve 1%. it was an important change , kids wereer that drinking less of it. thelunchrooms are away for dairy industry to get kids familiar with their products. remarkablet was a statement to that a week after he was confirmed, the agriculture secretary said, i would not be as big as i am today without chocolate milk. as we have discovered in reporting, the secretary had previously sold flavored milk to china. he made his fortune in business in the green industry. host: re: making direct connections between that policy change and the influence from the dairy industry?

i think the dairy industry makes its influence known as through many means. one is through the school nutrition association which is a professional group of cooks and cafeteria managers. it gets most of its funding from processed food companies, 'lakes, and it o is through those companies that the dairy industry made its wishes known, and the agriculture secretary is someone that is receptive to that. host: one of the things you write in the piece was under the previous rules under the obama administration, you said per capita, people in the u.s. are drinking 40% less milk then in 1965. milk prices are sliding and dairy prices are failing. 600 dairyalone lost farms in 2018. also, consumption is down and canada.

and high dairy intake can increase weight gain. can you expand? guest: yeah. has really pride a place in our lunch rooms, and it is the only food that is required to be served to kids. at the same time, people just are not drinking it. are studies that are showing that the dietary recommendations that the u.s. has set our maybe unhealthy to you. there was a study in sweden that attract people over 20 years and found that people who are drinking three glasses of milk or more a day were more likely to die in that period. they also did not have the effect on the bones that were thought to happen with milk. to havee no less likely bone fractures and anyone else. host: our guest is with us in on magazinet segment talking about the changes to the school meal program. if you want to ask lessons, call

(202) 748-8000 for democrats, republicans (202) 748-8001, an independents (202) 748-8002. what do the meal programs look like now when it comes to the dairy part of it? are you seeing more 2% or whole milk? more whole cheese? isst: the main difference of milk,ge to the type a fattier milk that can be served. the other thing under the obama administration was that they were going to be much larger reductions in sodium. as i talked to a an industry consultant who told me this is the a cheese apocalypse for industry. with these reductions, you would be serving much less cheeseburgers, macaroni and cheese, and staples for kids. to they are according doctors as things that are treats rather than staples. host: you start at the front

line of sorts -- you call them -- becauses could predominantly they are ladies, some men are included, but how -- what dodle this they see as the influence on the dairy industry? guest: i went to a school nutritionist conference in las vegas which is a professional association and they have education sessions and learn about how to fill the federal requirements. it is also a chance for companies to pitch their products to them, and to pitch them really unfiltered. and companies paid to be there. i went to one session that land was presenting and it was hosted by a very charming celebrity chef. he did and all cheese menu. pizza tacos, cheesy p thes, and really plate u benefits of processed food from

land o'lakes because it can save time in the lunch rooms. the lunch rooms are strapped for money, they do not have kitchens to prepare the foods, and what would really be more beneficial to these programs is to give more money to training and be able to serve more whole foods. host: you call something then attrition smacked down. the kellogg's company and the national dairy council presenting this. do you tell us what this is about relates to the issue? the milk andas cereal in the bowl getting together to -- they called it, how to defend and promote your great products. it was hosted by a kellogg executive who you would imagine would be promoting kellogg's view, and also, an adjunct professor from texas who was presented to most people as a neutral scientist. he presented a lot of the use

for why milk is beneficial and the things that we have heard about -- how we have heard that it is great for calcium, and you have to get calcium before you are 30 or your bones will turn to dust. you look at his background and he has a long history of having written papers for various food company sponsors. in 2005, after the supersize me movie came out, which was weight about how much morgan spurlock had gained eating at fast food restaurants, he went out and sent to some students to eat for 30 days and fast food restaurants and claimed that you could lose weight. this is the type of education that the lunch ladies were getting at the conference i went to. host: our first call for you is coming from bill in iowa, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. yes, peter. this is very political and you know it. what you have done is you have

said, the studies are leaning more towards this. and you said, we are fighting possibly that this could do this. the if this is so bad, democrats can say, we are going to change the diets of every student in the country like you guys did -- if this is so bad. , there shoulday be no milk sold across the counter anywhere in the united states. you people are so political and crazy. you are getting absolutely nuts. host: will let our guests respond. the point of the article was trying to show what the consensus was emerging from atentists, and if you look the public school from harvard health they are saying that milk and a diet can be beneficial, but there recommendation is one to two servings a day.

said, the requirement in the u.s. is that milk is regularly served with every meal. if you go to france and you look at a menu, you look at a menu there, and water is served. host: it is not surprising that one of your other critics come from the american council on science and health and they publish a post about your piece. they said, right off that -- the bat, they have all of the hallmarks of a propaganda piece. reality, the u.s. there he industry is modestly sized with about $83 billion in revenue. how do you respond to that? guest: i did see that and i thought it was interesting that they took issue with my story having said the dairy industry is $200 billion because that number is directly from the dairy industry itself which estimated its economic impact. it is a large industry that has

a role in many, many states. host: anne is in kentucky. caller: yes, i would just like guest,the fellow, your i know he is talking about the dairy industry, and the milk products and how they are not healthy and beneficial. they are wanting to change the menus in the lunch room for children. government't the have started a long time ago with the food stamp program? ? i worked in the grocery business for 20 years and i witnessed what kind of foods the people who were using the food stamps were buying. and they were not -- for the most part, they were buying foods that were not healthy foods. -- i always wondered why does the federal government allow these foods to be purchased, why should they not be limited to foods that are more healthy. on one end, their diet is poor, then they are developing health

problems, and then we got to spend money on taking care of their ailments. host: we will let him respond. guest: it comes back to education. the issues if pointed out in the story was that the agriculture department has a dual role. it is trying to promote american food and products, which is good for the economy, and also trying to make sure that what the people are eating is helpful. another issue is that healthful food is often more expensive. when itother tweet, comes to chocolate milk it says, kids can handle the sugar and chocolate milk as long as they are getting enough exercise. it is definitely better than sodium. you talk about the chocolate milk aspect in your piece. guest: right. another issue we looked at in the piece was looking at the marketing behind milk. it is interesting that there has been this trend over the last 10

years where chocolate milk is seen as a recovery beverage, which comes back to some studies done in indiana with swimmers and cyclists. the dairye studies, industry has promoted those and claimed that chocolate milk is better than a sports beverage after you have exercise. but i've talked to the scientist who did those studies, and he said he is a little bit concerned at the way the studies have been used in marketing and that he went back to the national dairy council and suggested doing a study on kids who are sedentary and seeing what effect that would have. he said he was turned down. he thought the risk was the kids might add 15 pounds. were athletes training four to six hours a day. i think the point is that, yes, you can drink milk and you can eat very. but it should be in balance, and

you should get exercise. host: from dallas, texas, this is john. caller: yes. first of all, the whole thing is just an example of how totally tyrannical our government is becoming. what a person eats or does not eat is none of the government's business, and that goes for the schools. but federal government has no role in our schools. that is strictly a state and local issue, and it has been for the history of the united states up until the mid-1960's when the most despicable country has ever seen, lyndon johnson, pulled the schools and the federal government, which was a disgrace. host: how does the federal government become involved in school lunches? guest: it was really to make people healthier so they would be healthier so they could serve

in the military. time thee first federal government got a role in school lunches was in 1946. president truman was convinced by military leaders that we just were not going to be able to fight the cold war and to do what the military needed to do without healthier conscripts. host: from massachusetts, mike is next. caller: good morning. point and an additional one after that last caller. the irony that the military started this all up. fromow you have some guy the south calling in telling us that the federal government is overstepping their bounds, it made me laugh. but the other two comments, one is an anecdote. i grew up here, and in elementary school, we were in fifth grade. we were being served in -- tacos in a bag.

it is a fritos bag with some cream,heese, and sour and a piece of bread, and some sliced cucumbers. that was my fifth grade school lunch. pretty well off place in massachusetts, we have it a lot better than other people do. comment, this is a huge -- you have this fight over milk in schools and being pushed into schools. a lot of the things we see today as far as i am concerned, as far is alllems go -- it about money corrupting all of this stuff. you have some really smart onple telling us information the side of the nutrition deal. then you have some guy telling us that the federal government is overstepping their bounds. host: we will leave it there. guest: yeah. i think the interesting thing is

that the education has not really been promoted. it was not until the obama thenistration came and that name is in the title -- the healthy hunger kids act. before then, i think it was interesting talking to a teacher in chicago who was saying that breakfast was a glazed donut, and a glass of milk. so if you have a message from the government that what you eat is important and that it will have an effect on your that kind of messaging is not happening today. host: this is a viewer off of twitter that says, i went through a growth spurt from ages 14 to age 16, i craved milk. gulped four glasses at a time. are you suggesting that trend is

not continuing today? guest: you are getting lots of exercise and that is a good sign. you can get calories in many ways, leafy greens provide a law of calcium, tofu -- a lot of calcium, tofu, and everyone knows that teenagers drink a lot of food. host: carol. hi. caller: good morning. the distinction between buttermilk and regular milk. i am very fond of buttermilk. i also wonder what you think of kiefer, the liquid yogurt. guest: there is a debate about taught ford and the a long time was that fat is incredibly unhealthy for you. now, there is a thought that fat is not so much unhealthy. it is the processing that is unhealthy. i think if you eat smaller servings of whole foods that are

not processed, that would be healthy. host: from minnesota, linda, good morning. caller: good morning. i read your article yesterday, mr. robinson, and that was great. i appreciate it. i am a school teacher for 30 years, so i've been in the thericts a lot, and watched kids drink milk. before the obama --when they changed everything, we had a huge garbage can and the kids food and no your one can, and that open your carton of milk, dumped down whatever you did not drink into the other garbage. even weore the obama's, had chocolate milk, these kids were not drinking their milk. they would get through the lines and still have to open it up, even if they did not drink it, and they would have to throw it in the big garbage.

what a waste that was. and they would have to take it every day into the dumping room and throw this huge container of milk away. and it was not because the obama's did this. i think this is just a change of people with their milk and i, too, the last couple of callers ago, i lost 25 pounds in the last 3 years, because i stopped drinking milk. we are the only mammal on the planet that drinks another mammal's milk, and that just cannot be normal. host: thanks, caller. guest: that is interesting, the image of milk being dumped out. so much milk is produced that there is not enough demand. farmers were -- will just dump it out on their fields because there is so much. host: what is the u.s.

consumption of milk compared other countries? guest: it is in the top 20 compared other countries. the u.s., a lot of other countries with european dissent -- descent, and they have developed the gene to process milk. it is really only people of north european descent that can drink it without digestive trouble. about 60% of people around the world cannot easily process lactose. you have people in japan, china hina were- japan, c milk is not a staple. host: how much influence do they have on capitol hill besides what you said about sonny perdue? guest: despite their declining production of milk, they still have incredible influence. several states argued very producers.

-- onenia, pennsylvania of the congresspeople who were for antinuing to push role of milk and school lunches is glenn thompson of pennsylvania, who was really taking the former agricultural duringry to task hearings and said at one point, i think flavor goes a long way. he is now promoting a new act to bring whole milk back to schools. host: we will hear next from oklahoma, billy on the independent line. caller: yes, i would just like to make a remark about the people in france drinking water. he has never been to france. water over there, it is a privilege. you pay more for water if you drink it than you do for wine. it is very staple for water in the country of france. host: tampa, florida, bonnie. caller: good morning.

i am a grandmother raising grandchildren, and i find when i make their lunch or have the grandson in high school take granola bars to school because my concern is the processed foods that they are serving. chicken nuggets is one of their main meals. the children do not like it and they cannot eat it. recently in the last few months, what they are saying is that processed food is full of chemicals and sodium. it is unhealthy and this is what is causing cancer problems in america with food. host: so, as far as the future of this industry and what is in the school lunch program or overall, what conclusions would you draw? guest: i think under the current administration, their role in the lunch programs is secure. foreseenhat had been under the healthy hunger free kids act have been put off to

2024, 2025 which would be the last year of president trump's second term. wrote ther robinson piece for bloomberg, he is an investigative journalist. he joined us from seattle to talk about this part for the spotlight on magazine. we appreciate your time. guest: thanks very much. host: coming up, we will talk to john koza of the national popular vote. changed howrado has they will award votes for the electoral college. that conversation coming up on "washington journal." ♪ ♪ >> the only thing we have two self.- to fear is fear it >> ask not what your country can do for you. ask what you can do for your country. beand the people will not

[indiscernible] [applause] >> c-span's new book "the " noted historians provide insight into the lives of the 44 american presidents. true stories gathered by interviews. explore the life of events that our leaders, challenges they faced, and the legacies they left behind. c-span's "the presidents" will but youelves april 23, can preorder your copy at c-span.org/thepresidents, or wherever books are sold. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from san francisco is john koza, of the national popular vote, he is their founder.

good morning. guest: good morning. host: can your mind folks about your initiative and particularly who backs you as a part of this initiative? guest: the purpose of the national popular vote's compact is to guarantee the white house to the presidential candidate to gets the most popular votes in all 50 states and the district of colombia. we started -- backersam one of the and i am the main backer, in fact. host: when it comes to this latest colorado the state to decide they are signing on to this, talk about what brought them to that conclusion and how many other states are involved? guest: in terms of colorado, when we started in 2006, the colorado senate was the first legislative chamber to pass the national popular vote bill, and since then, it has passed the house twice, and the senate one more time.

this appears to be the first year where both the house and senate have passed it simultaneously. they have sent the bill to the governor who has now said he will sign it. host: go ahead. of other states that are involved, the national popular vote bill is a ready -- is already law in 12 jurisdictions. four small states. vermont, hawaii, district of medium estates, connecticut, maryland, washington state, and new jersey, and new york, california, illinois, and massachusetts. host: if the math is right and if colorado signs on, that is about 180 votes into play. how many do you have to get in order to make an influence of how elections work? guest: none of the laws that , after theassed

governor signs are in colorado, takes effect until states have 270 electoral votes to pass the same law. 270 is the number of electoral votes it takes to become president. host: why go this route versus the current route we have as far as electoral votes are concerned? guest: the current winner take all system is a series of state laws out in 48 of the 50 states. it awards all of the states votes tos electoral the candidate who gets the most votes inside each and every state. take all at the state level is a size of about 45 presidents who have common in to office without having won the most votes nationwide. more importantly, its channels the presidential campaign into a very small number of battleground states.

these are the states that are really closely divided. ,or example, pennsylvania michigan, wisconsin, north carolina, arizona, and florida. closely divided battleground states that will a sickly determine who becomes president in the 2020 election. (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, and (202) 748-8002 for independents. if your way does go forward, how do you think the campaigning with change? guest: every vote would be equal throughout the united states. inht now when you vote, say colorado for president, you are directly influencing only nine electors out of 538.

nder our system, when you vote in colorado, you would be casting your vote for 270. if your presidential choice gets the most votes in all 50 states, that candidate would be guaranteed to hundred 70 electoral votes and hence, the white house. what we have is a system where every vote would be equal, and it would be important to campaign out and you would not getsa situation where ohio 48 of 400 campaign visits, which was the case last time. and illinois gets none, nearby. or for that matter, indiana also got none. states aref four spectator states. politically irrelevant in choosing the president. we already know how those 38 to statesare going -- 38

are going to vote and the electoral college in 2020, and entireire a -- presidential race will focus on five to six of the states like the six i previously mentioned, which are the six states that just came out in the rothenberg projection. , on the federal list of websites, there is a piece that takes a look at this issue and particularly your effort saying this, we are perfectly capable of altering the method of president in the election process. advocate ofld the the national popular vote not use that tried and true method of altering our political structures legitimately? the reason is simple. they tried before and failed. popular vote advocates are trying to get around the law with this legislative sleight-of-hand. guest: i am afraid the sleight did not read the constitution.

it says that each state shall appoint in such manner as the legislature thereof may direct. let's keep in mind that the system we have today, the system of winner take all laws in 40 of 50 states is not in the constitution. -- in 48 of 50 states. it is not in the constitution. quickly repealed by 1800. action by the state legislators using the power they have under article two section one of the constitution. host: our first call comes from rooney, he is from wisconsin. you are on with john koza. john, i was going to point out that the electoral

college is the artifact of the compromise, which allows states to allow slavery to continue in the united states for the early constitution. thank you, pedro, you guys do the work of saints. thank you. guest: the caller is correct. the electoral college structure was part and parcel of the compromise over slavery, but it was a compromise in a lot of other ways. the compromise does not say that the people get to vote because the constitutional convention could not agree on whether the people should have any input at all into the choice of presidential electors. they left the matter totally to the states as to whether people vote, vote and if they do exactly what method is used? example, six of the

states allow the people to vote. the remainder did not. ,ome of the states that did not the state legislature picked up the presidential electors. in one state, the state governor and cabinet picked the presidential electors. massachusetts had a congressional elector system. had one elected for each of its three counties, and virginia treated special presidential elect their district. we fact is, the system that have today is not only in the constitution, but it has changed repeatedly over the years. the state of massachusetts has changed their system 11 times, so the notion that the national popular vote compact is somehow illegitimate to use the word that was on the website that you quoted, it is not true. it is a legitimate way to change the system and it is the way the competition provides, which is

the power of the state legislature to determine how the state's electoral votes are you warded -- are awarded. rryl. this is da caller: hello. want to remind people that the inctoral college is based differences between the senate and the house, 535 votes, but more important than that, i want people to remember back to florida with gore and bush. weeks, we fought and argued up and down the supreme court. we almost had a constitutional crisis because of [indiscernible] not determining the popular vote in one state. we take this a bit further and we talk about the six states that you mentioned, we could be in a situation where we might not even have a president

in operation day -- by inauguration day. guest: the caller makes a good point. the current system repeatedly creates artificial crises. there were three recounts requests in the 2016 election, and only one of the states conducted the recount. that was wisconsin. in the other states, and managed to convince the courts to not hold a recount. it is prone to crises because every election is 50 separate state elections, so you have 50 separate opportunities to have a close election. there would be a single pool of votes in a national popular vote election. republican line from maryland, we will hear from

chris. caller: yes. , there is a provision in article one, section 10 of the constitution that says that no state without the consent of congress, enter into compacts with another state unless actually invaded or in such imminent dangers will not admit it's delay. i would say this violates the of theompact constitution. existing u.s. a prima court contestants that go , an interstate compact only requires compression -- congressional consent if it threatens the federal supremacy, or a federal power. and i did just quote the constitution and i -- and the supreme court saying that the

power is an exclusive power of the state. so there is no threat the federal supremacy. under existing premises, this compact would appear not to require congressional consent. by the way, congressional consent almost always occurs after you reach the required number of states. -- the courts will be asked whether a current president supplies, or whether the additional hurdle of going to congress will be required. if it is, we will have to do that. law journald published a you piece by patrick balenciaga he says, the compact goes up against the spirit of the constitution and the intentions of the framers because it creates conflict among states.

additionally, the compact s in somethingsult the framers intended to avoid. guest: the framers did not want a state-by-state, winner take all basis for the electoral votes. not only was the nine the constitution, that system did not become firmly in place until long after the founders and their children were dead. thereality is that constitution has no specific procedures for electing president. what it says is that each state shall appoint in such manner that the legislator there of may direct a number of presidential electors. host: kelly is next in new york. caller: regarding the winner take all system, why is it not

instead that the proportion of the state's democratic voters that proportion of the electoral delegates for that state, and the proportion who voted for the republican candidate did that proportion of the delegates, and had that system be in place, would trump the in the white house? guest: i believe trump would be in the white house under that system but that system has a great number of flaws. think of the state with three or four electoral votes, so as a practical matter, if the state was not finally balanced getting between one and two electoral votes, the state would not be a battleground state. we have spreadsheets that show

only about 22 states would be competitive for one electoral vote under the proportional system. you would have a system where electoral 260 or so votes would be frozen for each party, and there would be a contest in about 22 states for one electoral vote. that would create a very bizarre kind of election, and with third parties, and by the way, in a 2016 election and in 2000, the third parties would throw the election to the house of representatives where each state has one votes, but the proportional system is an interesting idea -- but you can read our book "every vote equal" online for free, you can see the proportional system does not deliver the benefits you like. host: interviewer says this to the united states is not a

pure democracy, it is a mob mocracy. it is a huge difference. guest: if you read the federalist papers or your civics books, the republic of the kind of government where the people elected officials to carry out there will between elections. there is nothing in the method of electing the president by a popular vote that the contrary -- that is contrary to the idea of the republic. the governors, the chief executives of every state are elected by a popular vote just as we are proposing. every vote is equal and whoever has the most votes, wins. there is nothing incompatible about a popular election which

the winner is the candidate with the most votes, and the idea of a constitutional republic. we are a constitutional republic today and under the national popular vote compact, we would continue to be a constitutional republic. opularvote.com, the website if you want to read, john koza is the founder of this effort. hello. caller: the lady from new york stole my thunder to a significant degree. republic -- a republic is a theesentative democracy, efforts are no in beloit and trying to reframe the conversation. void and -- null and trying to reframe the conversation. secondly, i think there is a

way to doicious this. if the harvard professor has thought about ways to get the electoral college challenged at the supreme court level. and what is going to happen is when the democrats added two seats to the bench, the case will be heard that the electoral college is unconstitutional as per the one man, one vote. that will force the states to start proportionately allocating the electoral college votes. lastly, where is all of the objection to the election of senators and house are evident at this as a reflection of the fact that they are elected by democratic majority? host: thanks, caller. hast: well professor lessig shine though a - shine the spotlight.

he points out that if you are a democrat in texas or republican in california, you go to the your vote is recorded but then immediately discarded. one hundred percent of texas electoral votes go to the party that has the majority in texas, completely stifling the voice of the minority in that state, and similarly in california. in the reverse situation. the inequalities and unfairness of the winner take all system ought to be pointed out and considered by the courts. host: this is reid in washington state, republican line. caller: good morning. pedro, i have a few points i would like to ask your guests. i want to briefly say, you guys at c-span1 had a lot of topics recently about global warming. i want to point out that

somebody has written a book and he points out that carbon dioxide, if you imagine a football stadium with 40,000 people seated, carbon dioxide is the receipts. host: i'm sorry, can you please direct your comments to our guest only? do not agree with the guest, his concept of getting rid of the electoral college, and here is the reason why. first of all, if you let the mob, the way i term it, rule with respect to who has voted for the president, you can pretty much just fly over the rest of the middle of the nation. once that happens, and i am in the middleate of the country and i am no longer counted, because i am trumped from the mob of the cities, the revolution may just begin. the question i have, what about

superdelegates? host: let him finish his thought. caller: superdelegates, i am interested in his opinion. not focusing you on something like campaign finance reform which a salt and of the issues we have? host: we will have to leave it there. mr. koza, go ahead. the vote is of all, an 100% of the states that vote for president's electors, so you might want to call the voters mob. i do not. if you want to use that term, we already have a selection by the mob. presented by the national popular vote bill is whether you want the mob in five or six states to determine who is president versus the mob in all 50 states of the district of columbia. -- and the district of columbia. and as for this notion of the middle of the country as flyover

states, take a look at the maps of where the campaign goes on right now. there were only three states west of the mississippi have any campaign visits in the general election. or any substantial spending or campaign. almostal states were totally left out of the presidential campaign. the southern states were almost totally left out. the new england states were totally left out. werehe rural states totally left out. three out of the four states already left out. want the mobif you in six states to choose the president or the mob and 50 states. host: he asked about superdelegates and changing campaign-finance reform. >> hello -- caller: hello, the whole reason

the elector rowboat was put in, they could not -- the electoral vote was put in, they could not trust the people in the cities, and the people in the small counties wanted to vote so they set up the electoral college. so all of the states had a vote, just not the blue states. thank you. host: mr. koza? we are having a little bit of an issue trying to research your the issue. yourll continue on with calls. just took a look that our guest is not with us. rory from new york. our guest is not with us, but make your comments or questions about the electoral college. caller: has anyone done a study

on the actual, physical campaigning? i cannot believe that it actually matters in the world of cyber information. ralliesore, political are always attended by people who already support a candidate. real town meetings probably work, but most people get their information for media. host: so you are saying in this age, retail politicking not necessary? caller: that is what i am saying. host: what led you to that conclusion? caller: i vote, i read, i watch television, and i have never seen a candidate, and i am sure city,- i live in new york and they are everywhere, but i do not attend rallies. i just get my information from the media. and i tried to be pretty pair, focusing onir, c-span and a little bit of the right and left media.

host: even if a person or a candidate that you were interested in were close by, would you attend? caller: not really. too many people. too crowded. host: let's go to michael in north dakota. caller: hey john, we have 30 million illegal aliens in this country. how do you guarantee my vote when one of them goes to get a fake drivers license to go vote? host: james and oregon. -- in oregon. caller: i absolutely hate the electoral college. i am so in favor of the proposal. i hate the fact that the electoral college makes some americans'votes worth more than other americans. it is inherently unfair. we are all americans and every vote should have the same weight. in alaska and it was like, why bother voting,

because i knew my vote would be nothing. and they would start calling the election as soon as the east coast gets done voting. with this proposal, you would have to wait until the last vote was counted in hawaii. host: that is james and oregon. that you the states have listed already signed on, would it be fair to describe them as blue states? and are there any red states that are interested in joining on as well? adopters weretial indeed blue states, and as soon as the 2008 election was held, we started getting substantial republican support. the first rollcall vote after the election, one third of the republicans in the michigan house of representatives supported our bill, and in the between 2008d and 2016, arizona house passed

and in new york, the republican-controlled senate at the time repeatedly passed our bill, and could not get it through the democratic assembly amonge there was a bleak democrats that the current system created an electoral college lock or a blue wall in favor of the democrats. obviously, sentiment changed after the 2016 election. host: this is from tennessee, george. good morning. caller: good morning. the way i look at all of this is all of those who are for the as the vote, as soon other party starts winning the popular vote, they will want to start going back to the electoral college. guest: i do not think that everybody will ever go back to winner take all system

once an election is held on a nationwide basis because three quarters of the states are truly left out of the electoral campaign under the current system. under a national popular vote, the candidates would have to campaign across the country in all of the states because every vote would be equal. it would be just as important to get a vote in wyoming as it would be to get a vote in delaware. both of which are totally ignored now. but those votes would become just as important as congressional district in ohio or a congressional district in california. so once we go to a national popular vote, the benefits to the fact that every voter in every state is going to matter and every state is going to get attention, it will be obvious. host: when do you think that you will get enough support from the states to make this happen? chance, 2020.

but we are very confident this will be in place by 2024. host: this is john koza joining us for the national popular vote. the website, nationalpopularvote.com, joining us from san francisco this morning. thank you. guest: another addition comes your way at 7:00 tomorrow morning. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> coming up, interviews with new house members discussing their first days on capitol hill and on thursday house debate on an anti-hate