important to them. the doors for policymaking to see, bringing unfiltered content. in the age of power to the people, this was true people power. thehe 40 years since, landscape has changed. there is no monolithic media. youtube stars are a thing. c-span's idea is more relevant today than ever. no government money support c-span and is not part of the government of washington that is provided by your satellite provider on television and online. c-span is your unfiltered view of government so you can make up your own mind. >> this morning, jason grumet, from the bipartisan policy center looking at budget proposals and legislative changes that could help end washington gridlock,

then, darrell west from the brookings institution about his book "divided politics, divided , nation." we will take your calls, and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. washington journal's next. ♪ >> good morning. it is monday, march 18, 2019. a three-hour washington journal is ahead for you this morning. we begin on the 2020 road to the house. former vice president joe biden continues to loom as perhaps the last major candidate to enter the parties primary. by himself he seems to edge closer to joining the contest this weekend. do you think joe should run for president in 2020? if you think he should, the 202-748-8000, and if you think he should not come

the number is 202-748-8001. you can also get to us social media. now on start calling and this question. the former vice president was back in his home state of delaware this weekend at a delaware democratic party dinner. he took the stage to a chance of run." e, here is what he had to say. i have the most progressive record>> of anyone who would run -- of anybody who would run. [cheers and applause] >> anybody who would run! host: joe biden over the weekend in delaware. do you think joe biden should run for president in 2020? youphone lines and then, if think he should, call 202-748-8000, and if you think he should not, call

202-748-8001. poll after poll of the 2020 democratic field, he is leading in every one. . the big question is whether the lead will. proof durable once the campaign gets serious. here are the. current results, and every single poll tracked by realclear politics.com. he is usually in the low 20's in that crowded field. in an average of recent national polls, widen lead by about 20 points. iowaads in three polls of tracked by realclearpolitics.com. biden tends to come in second in new hampshire. he was up 16 points in south carolina, the only south carolina poll tracked by realclearpolitics.com.

if you would like to see the numbers, the latest average, polls, the average of all the polls taken, biden is at 29 percent, bernie sanders at 22%, and senator, horace at 13%. , betor cory booker, 5% o'rourke at 543%, and senator klobuchar 3.7%. there are not enough spaces for all 16 of the democratic candidates running, but there are 12 polls tracked by realclearpolitics. we want to know what you think of the runner. if he entered right now, he would be the front runner. from tulsa, oklahoma, good morning. caller: hello. he should not run. , i think there is somebody better than him. i want to vote for trump.

host: vincent, did you vote for donald trump in 2016? we lost vincent. someone waiting from brooklyn new york, on the line of those who say he should run. ?hy should he run >> i think the process wants to hear from as many verses as possible and i think he is uniquely qualified to run in certain states like wisconsin, pennsylvania and michigan, where hillary clinton lost. host: what makes him uniquely qualified for those states. he resonates with those voters in scranton, pennsylvania. he has a message and track record of supporting workers in the midwest. host: you're a democrat. you do want him to run in 2016? his chancenderstood not to run, and if he had family issues. host: our next caller is from

detroit, michigan. on the line of those who says he should run. go ahead. caller: yes, he should run. he is a good man and he knows what he is doing. he is for everybody, he is not like trump. trump is only for the rich. host: you say he knows what he is doing. what policy area are you specifically most interested in hearing him from and how he would separate himself from the rest of the democratic field? he has been around and he is a good man. a good man. and he is for the people. host: what makes him for the people? be acause he is going to democrat, that's why. [laughing] host: are there any other democrats you think are for the people? caller: i don't know those, but i know joe geithner. i keep up with this. host: thank you for the call.

our next caller is in kentucky, on the line of those who don't think you should run. why not. : i think democrats are totally against elderly white man and biden has been in office for i don't know how long, way , and he is past is time , he is way past his time. host: by do you think democrats are against older white men? caller: maybe they are not, but that is what the media tells us. supercriticallike of them to put other white men up and at the same time say, we don't want these people in office and we don't want people in office that have been there for 30 years or more, yet at the

same time, that is exactly who they put up, who they run for president. i will be voting for president trump again. host: thank you, from kentucky. peter is in massachusetts. he thinks former vice president biden should run. go ahead. caller: yes, good morning. yes. i am for vice president biden, he is well respected throughout theworld, and he knows machinations of the office. i think he should have michelle obama as his running mate. she could be the vice president. and the people who fought it for voted for want -- who trump and who wants to continue -- theycies and his will keep their opinion. they are not going to be offended by anything he does, and they think his policies are

good. so i think that something that would bring us back to a respectable standing in the world would be the former vice president, joe biden, who gets along, he is bipartisan, a statesman, which trump is not. and michelle obama has carved her own area of respect globally, as well. host: what makes joe biden bipartisan, give me an example. caller: well, the way that he can cooperate with other members of the political spectrum. mccain andmple john he were notably very good ,riends, lifelong friends although their political views were disparate.

they oppose each other on many issues, but through discussion. they did not hate each other, they did not spout all this anti--- whatever rhetoric, and joe biden will get along. he is a nice guy. politics is one thing, and personal feelings are a separate thing, and he doesn't mix the two. fathersinal founding never intended politics to be a career. they left their prominent , it was a hardship. they want to serve their country in the political arena -- they went to serve their country in the political arena and when they were had done that for very

hard job, they went back to their lives and continued with their business. they were not government to have they were not government to have a lifelong career and support system by being a politician. host: peter, take a listen to more from president biden this weekend on the issue you bring up, of not treating the opposition as the enemy. don't treat the opposition as the enemy. we have to say a nice word about a republican when they do something good. [laughter] some people think we do this because we are a small state and run into some person on the other side of the debate again, in the grocery store, in charge, at the little league field, or at the beach. all true. but i think it is more than that. barak always used to kid me because i would repeat a thousand things to him, as

michelle writes in her book, she said joe is like barak's big brother. candiduld be completely with him. when he would ask for advice, i would do what i had always done, pass on the advice i got from my mother and father. i would say, all politics is personal. one of the reasons why things get on a little bit that are here in delaware and other places is we do know one another. as much as you disagree with the man and woman across from you on the merits of a political problem, you also know they may have a son or daughter who is l. -- who is ill. you may know that someone's wife or husband is suffering from breast cancer or prostate cancer. you may know that they have fallen on hard times. and he makes it hard to dislike them when you know somebody. when you know the struggles they are going through. it makes it hard to dislike them. host: more on today's

"washington post" on how the former vice president to to those on the other side of the aisle. this from a story about mike pence being an easy target on aisle.des of the it focuses on joe biden's treatment of the current vice president. attacking. serves the democrats especially those in a crowded field. pants whileays, delivering a speech last month received a media backlash from activist cynthia nixon, who chided biden for calling america's "most anti-lgbt elected leader." biden who is considering a presidential run responded by saying that there is nothing indecent about anti-energy be to cure rights, including vice president pence. meanwhile he told fox news last week that biden had caved to liberal activists in apologizing

for his original comments. that was in today's washington post. we are talking about whether you presidentformer vice joe biden should run for president in 2020. if you think he should, the number is 202-748-8000, if you think he shouldn't, the number is 202-748-8001. from rhode island, you think he should. why is that? caller: not many people listen to him, but he listens to everyone. ,s the previous caller said whatever party, it doesn't matter. remember when mike pence was a puppet, heike was moving his head here and there, when they were discussing loc andt trump and schumer, they were all sitting

together, he would never be in a situation like that. he would mature everybody's happy. that is the kind of person he is. someone like that. and he has experience. at this point, where trump has -- like at the moment of the debate, these youngsters, whoever they are, however knowledgeable they are, he can cut them short as if he was coming out of the swimming pool, ,e was talking about florida rubio, he was sweating so much that it looked like he came out of the swimming pool. host: thank you for your point. from pennsylvania, a republican. he thinks former vice president biden shouldn't run. why is that? caller: i can say this because i am 80 years old. joe biden and bernie sanders also are too old to be

president. am hearty and busy every day, but i can recognize old age when they see it and they are just simply too old. it is a mentally, physically, emotionally exhausting job and out for hisen was people in the midterms, he could barely talk. he looks pretty good this weekend, but he was in another discussion earlier on and he was in a chair. he already looked exhausted. abouthe only good thing having an old president of, is we wouldn't have the long -- we wouldn't have that long to pay them that $200,000 a year pension that they get. far as iw, was as know, getting that for 25 years. host: how old is too old to be president? well, doing the

midterms, i noticed president .rump joe biden said barely talk, but president trump was having the time of his life. so i would say under 75 years old, i think over 75 years old is too old. host: so if president trump or to win again in 2020, he would be over 75 years old, in his second term. caller: yes he would, but he would be over 75 for only four years. i voted for him before and i will vote for him again. but 77 years old to start with is just too old. host: margie in pennsylvania. mark is waiting from santa monica, california. you think you should not run, why is that? , andr: because he is alert

he is for everybody. and he has a lot of energy. host: do you is a reason he should not run? -- er: host: you need to turn down your television. caller: i will vote for trump and heecause he is alert knows what he is doing. i can't find my remote control. host: all right. kevin in connecticut. he thinks joe biden should run. caller: yes, biden should run because of obama and biden took and trumpsion away, never handled a real emergency. biden knows how to unite us with our allies.

he will unite the whole country. trump is running off the hard work of obama and biden. he had the economy handed to him when he got in. host: that is kevin in connecticut this morning. plenty of discussion about the 2020 democratic field in today's newspapers. this is from the opinion pages of "the wall street journal." the column -- how democrats may blow it in 2020. he writes, voters will be looking for a presidential candidate who is reflective, experienced and a unifier rather than a divider, and who demonstrates being capable of serious governance. not just another pugnacious self seeker. how many of the announced democratic aspirants fit that description? appealing mainly to

anti-trump ours. but it is a mistake to believe that the national opinion conforms to that. you could ask presidents goldwater and mcgovern about mistake. rick in austin, texas. he thinks joe biden should run. caller: i think he should run because he is a uniting candidate. he knows how to relate to the working class. he is also strong on progressive issues, he helped sponsor the violence against women act. he could speak to both sides of the aisle. is an active vice president -- he was an active vice president so he knows the workings of the office. he can work with foreign leaders and feel someone's there. i would like to see him choose tammy duckworth as his running mate. she is a midwesterner, military woman and strong woman. her issues are climate change and infrastructure. i think the two of them would have a very strong message. he could speak, he could be the

nice cup and. she could be that tough cop she is the one who nicknamed trump president -- cadet owns purse. host: who do you think would be his toughest competition in the democratic field right now? caller: [sighs] perhaps amy klobuchar. she knows how to run from the metal as well. beto o'rourke is trying to do that but i think his resumes to fan. i do think whoever it is nice to be someone who runs from the to be, because dust needs someone who runs from the center. biden might be too conservative for me on some issues but i can handle that if it unites the country. i would rather have somebody who can unite people rather than alienate by just pushing one narrow agenda too hard. host: that is rake in austin

texas this morning. the democratic field is up to 16 candidates. yesterday when senator kirsten gillibrand officially announced she was running for president. you may recall she announced her exploratory committee in january. here is her tweet from yesterday -- let's prove that brave wins. kierstensupporters to gillibrand.com, releasing a video talking about her presidential bed. she is scheduled to go on a speaking tour to a town hall on monday in michigan, according to the usa today reported, she's off to iowa for two days, before heading to nevada. she plans to make her first major speech as a candidate next sunday in new york in front of york.international in new back to your phone calls asking about whether joe biden should run for president in 2020. from chicago, al.

caller: i think joe biden is the most qualified individual in the field. i don't agree with everything, but we are never going to agree with everything. i think he would be like a graduate student, against donald trump, who is a kindergartner and he would bring this country together. he is by far the best candidate, me.out a doubt, to i would like to see joe biden run with sherrod brown. i think they would be an unbeatable ticket. host: you don't agree with everything that he speaks about, what are some of the places you disagree with the former vice president? caller: i disagree mainly with the treatment of anita hill. there have been a couple of other things, i can't specify at this point in time, but i would support him anyway. atan't give any specifics

this time, but i'm just saying, joe biden has proven he is a patriot and he is a qualified individual. he has experience unlike donald trump, so i am full in on biden. ken, democrat in kentucky, thinks that biden should run. why is that. caller: i don't only she should run. he would be put there just to sanders,.ie just like hillary clinton did nor the republican party nor the democratic party want any change. biden --keeping joe bernie sanders back to destroy the party. i am ashamed of the democratic party, of which i have been a member for years and years. it has turned into something i can no longer support, on gun stuff. and other if they get into the interviews, people will see they don't fit in with this group. if we don't make some change in

this country, it is gone. host: why do you think bernie sanders is a person who can make that change? caller: he doesn't mind getting up there to confront people. joe biden has never confronted anybody. he has been a good person, but he will not make a good president. you are going to have to change to make some ways, and bernie sanders is the man to do it, i think. as far as. the age, i agree that people over 65 years old should be the cut off. times have changed so much. i am in my 70's now and we need a desperate health care change. you talk to people my age, i suffer from cancer and all these other things, and you don't see -- after you retire and see how bad the health care system is, life expectancy in the united states is going down, with the highest cost in the world, and we are getting less care. and nobody was to change it. everybody is happy with it.

all the lobbyists are drowning in sacks of money. it will not change unless you do somebody like bernie sanders in change.o make a host: bernie sanders is now 77 years old. you said you were concerned about anybody older than 65. caller: most people don't think that way anymore. there are so many changes. the younger group are all going for bernie sanders because they know he is. he is the same old bernie. you look back through history, it is the same deal. -- he doesn'tge change to make anybody happy or to make more money, he is the same person over and over. he is the man that can make it. he is always going to stand out, but i am just so dissatisfied withthe democratic party, what went on with hillary clinton, with the russian

hacking. and there was nothing in the wrong excerpt she was hiding the truth that came out, that cnn gave debate questions to them and everything else. it's got to stop. we have split people down the middle. and youn a rural area, talk to friends we have not all your life, you get into an argument. because of simple stuff in the government. and most people do not really understand what is going on. host: the phone lines if you want to join this conversation, we are asking if joe biden should run in 2020, call 202-748-2000 if you think you runld, and call 2027 for a -- 202 74 eight 8000, if you think he should, or call 202-748-8001 if you think he shouldn't. >> he is embracing plutocrats all over the world, from putin

to kim jong-un. turning our backs on our allies, and now, the world's worst dictators are using his own words to justify their abusive power. what do you hear coming out of the philippines or out of north korea? fake news. fake news has become a freeze of choice -- phrase of choice for these despots. the president is systematically tearing down the guardrails of our democracy, going after the very institutions the founders placed in the constitution to serve as a check on presidential then -- a free press, independent judiciary, a coequal legislative branch. the more you weaken the power of these institutions which were set up to prevent the abuse of power, prevent the accumulation of power, the more power rises

to the presidency. folks, we better wake up to what is happening right in front of our eyes. if you ask me a few years ago -- if you asked me a few years ago, whether our american democracy could ever crumble i would've you.ed at even though as a student of history i know that every democracy that has failed in the last 100 years, not one has failed because of a gunshot or a door being battered down. they have failed because of a democratic election and then whoever is elected began to take the guardrails down, tear down the legitimate elected officials tearing down the constraints of their power. host: by the way, if you would like to watch that entire speech, you can do so on the website at c-span.org.

he was speaking about president trump. some stories today about president trump looking ahead to 2020. this headline from the washington times today says -- the president will run on the border wall emergency. president trump was so eager to drop his first veto that within so,first 24 hours of doing his campaign had sent out appeals to supporters bragging about the move and asking them to donate to show their support. president trump wasted no time in issuing the veto a day after the senate voted to halt his emergency declaration. the fundraising pitch. by the president's campaign team -- liberals in the senate chose politics, i chose you. went on tour touting his defense of the border wall, calling it "the official wall of defense fund." that is from "the washington times," where you can read that. you can also contact us on

social media, and here are some comments. from a time when people expected lawmakers to be civil but the republicans have made the choice to condone being uncivil. trump is an anomaly. republicans will support anybody who support their agenda,. anybody" want tothese democrats be beaten more than once? do they not understand what we should be defeated?" mark from colorado is a republican who thinks joe biden should run. why? caller: i felt the same way about hillary. we know trump and we know joe biden -- we didn't know trump, biden.know joe i welcome him to come on as the same old tired guys who was not really very civil to tell you the truth, we can listen to the media tell us all wrong we are, but the people have spoken.

soelcome him to run that we could have another republican victory over these tired old people telling us how great they are worth their media buddies telling us the same thing, and we are looking at it saying, fake news. i wondered about joe biden saying, the philip dean's is a terrible despot or something, they are -- the philippines is a terrible despot or something, they are a democracy. he is looking at the democracy and saying that the philippines is terrible. what is he talking about? isn't this why he was defeated last time? because he opened his mouth? host: who do you think republican should be concerned about in this large democratic field right now? caller: if they get somebody like beto o'rourke, i don't know if he could. , but if they get someone who is really energized, like the guy from indiana, i might be a little worried.

what they did last time with even just old bernie sanders, they pushed him out. there was a vehicle happenings happening in the democratic party to push hillary and, it is well documented. and bernie got pushed out. though he didn't win much, he could've won a few more states at least. host: mark from colorado. you mentioned beto o'rourke, officially joining the 2020 race last week. here is one of the headlines about him. iowa."ke buzzes in from "the washington post" talking about his decision process, calling it "haphazard." here is the back story on the decision by beto o'rourke to jump in -- he was in his bathroom brushing his teeth. he and his wife getting out the door, packing matches and getting dressed.

a few months ago, he decided he to run for president. quote "we never had a normal conversation or checklist, but we have been talking about it on and off" he said in an interview. "i turned to her and said, is this what you want to do?" she said yes. the process was a month-long process which included introspection both private and public. that was a story in "the washington post," if you want to repent. from pittsburgh, pennsylvania, independent. go ahead. caller: biden shouldn't run. host: why not? caller: he is just part of the old click, the people we have been trying to get rid of. if you google trump's donations, biden.ave to they are two of the same people. if you want to be trump you will have to come up with a candidate

that can actually do something. what has widened done, really? he has a history in office, the iraq war, afghanistan war, how about the trillion dollar bailout of all the wall street tanks? do we really want more of the same? host: who is in part of the old clique? caller: i know they talk about bernie sanders. i think he is more of a breath of fresh air. all these others -- gillibrand, clothes shark, booker, the art wannabes. they haven't been vetted yet. they need a few more years of whatever it is they do in the senate to make them viable. personally, i think sanders is the one who would give trump a run. i don't know if he would win, but he would give him a run. host: joe in auburn, alabama. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. , i think it joe biden wants

to run, he has every right in the world to run. just look at the other field that is running. he could bethink the president right now. host: why not? caller: to be truthful, i have been following this, have been -- well, it doesn't matter -- i don't think the democratic party has a person yet that can beat our president. host: what would it take, joe? caller: i have been pondering that over. -- i, if somebody beto o'rourke, if somebody

had his enthusiasm and felt like biden, that would be the ideal person. -- i don't think biden truthfully, i don't think he is running. i really don't. host: went nuts? color fish -- host: wen why not? caller: he ran twice. host: what did you think of that slip of the tent over the weekend, joe biden saying -- i have the most progressive record of anybody running for president and then he stopped and said anybody who would run?" if that wasn't know a play on words. everyone says something no one then they don't want to or shouldn't. it doesn't matter.

i just -- if he wants to run -- i will tell you who he reminds me of. host: who is that? that servedesident good, biden, he was is a good man, don't get me wrong, but he would not -- i don't think he would make a good president. jimmy carter. jimmy carter was a good man, a quick man. he just wasn't presidential material. you know? --on't know what can example i will go ahead and drive a nail ato by force, but it -- into two by four, but i will not make me a coffin. i just don't think he is presidential material.

host: joe, thanks for the call from alabama this morning. a few more tweets -- jeff jill biden letke the baby boomers had a chance to do something and failed. another saying, hillary was the most qualified candidate and now , biden is the most qualified candidate. from virginia, you think he should run, why? caller: i think america needs civility again. the country needs to return to order. where people can leave and pace peace without being worried about foreign aggression or intervention into our politics. this legal system in the country is going in a way that i am worried about. we need somebody with a sense of control, who knows the politics of the country, who knows where the country is heading, and i think the discussion is being taken away from that, being

taken away from the people by age and all this stuff. that is all nonsense for this discussion. biden is the most qualified candidate who will lead america to the heights where america is supposed to be. are youristopher, what more concerned about? foreign policy or ms the policy and experience in those realms? caller: i am very much concerned about foreign policy. because when foreign policy goes bad, domestic policy is affected in a way that every time america goes out there and puts a good there, it hasout an effect on the local people here. that is something we should be aware of when dealing with who should run and who shouldn't run. if you put somebody who doesn't know foreign policy, and he tried to get rid of the most qualified people who know the

ropes, then i think we are making another mistake in this upcoming election. host: christopher, thanks for the call, from virginia. on the foreign policy front, a few articles in all pads in today's papers -- and alop -eds. the u.s. military is crafting plans that would keep nearly a thousand troops in syria, a shift that comes three months after president trump ordered a complete withdrawal, and far househan the white had intended. protracted talks with turkey and u.s. backed kurdish fighters have so far failed to secure an agreement to create a safe zones in the northeastern part of syria. as part of the plan to leave syria, the u.s. plans to keep working with kurdish fighters inside syria to fight turkish threats across the border. that u.s. official in that story , the wall street journal notes

that after they published the story and it appeared online sunday, general joseph gianforte, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff issued a it wasnt saying that factually inaccurate to say that the military was developing a plan to keep 1000 troops in syria. saying, "we continue to work on leaving syria." another op-ed today in the washington post is from congresswoman ilhan omar, who represents minnesota, a democrat. she was at the center of charges of anti-semitism for comments she made. valuesmar laying out the that she believes america should focus on when it comes to foreign policy in her column today. she writes in part about the u.s.-israeli relationship noting "the founding of israel was built on the jewish people's connection to their history and

homeland.oric you must acknowledge that this is also the historical homeland of palestinians and without a state, the palestinian people live in a state of permanent refugeehood and displacement or could state solution with internationally recognized borders, which allows for israel and palestinians to have their own sanctuaries and elf-determination" she says, when i criticize, i believe that the actions not only threaten the possibility of peace in the region, but it also the security of the united states. i would encourage both sides to move to a peaceful two state solution. we need to return this to the public debate with urgency." on can read more from that today's "washington post." mike in jonestown, ohio this

morning. you think the president shouldn't run. caller: yes, i refer to the caller about 25 minutes ago who was using the word "machinations of politics pur." and "he speaks to a broad spectrum of people." but then he began at explaining what our politicians are supposed to be like, he perfectly described donald trump. not somebody who wants to make a living off politics, but somebody who just comes in from the foreign business or film business and serves a little time and these. well, joe biden is the one -- serves a little time and leaves. joe biden is the one who has made a life out of politics. also, if he does run, i sincerely hope that the millions

of dollars of contracts that he guided towards his son's company gets investigated. because joe biden is not as squeaky clean as some people think. i do not believe he should run because too much will come out about him. doesn't people said, he have the energy left anymore, and i agree with those. those are my reasons for thinking he should not run. who: mike, as somebody supports donald trump, producing president trump should be most concerned about in this very large democratic field? caller: to be perfectly honest with you, none of them. a reallyhink they have serious candidate running. iss country, in my opinion, never going to vote a socialist in. and some of the other ones are

, theylowns -- spartacus are clowns. wed do not fit into what perceive as a person qualified to be a president. next in new york city, you think joe biden should run. why is that? caller: joe biden should run because of the white house is a travesty. number one. he is a crook, and #1, who goes around destroying a native alliance that was built 75 years ago to keep peace in the world? this man doesn't know what he is doing. if joe biden runs, he will wipe trump off clean, someone who doesn't know what he's doing. is ar two dub, this man liar. he cheats and steals every day. we want -- if you want someone

who steals, cheats and lives every day, be my guest. -- i have an uncle who was in the same school with him. donald trump does not know the a lot. he needs to brush up on his foreign policy. he is an ignoramus. he doesn't know how to run. all he knows how to do is steal and cheap. five.t the central park he accused five young man and he has never apologized today. he tried to say barack obama was not from this country, which was a lie. he knew it was a lie. this man lies every day. and republicans think it is all right to have a liar and a cheat in the white house who goes around with prostitutes, paying prostitutes to have sex with him, then be my guest. host: from new york. we are taking your calls and

your thoughts as to whether joe biden should run for president in 2020. call 202-748-8000 if you think he should and 202-748-8001 if you think he should. according to reporting, joe biden might not make a decision for several more weeks on this. but having this conversation this morning, we are talking about his speech on the lower this saturday where he seemed to say that he might run. here are some comments from the speech. >> i have the most progressive record of anybody who is running -- of anybody who would run. [applause] [cheers and applause] >> of anybody who would run! [cheers and applause] have to bring, we this country back together again.

we are at anelieve inflection point. i really mean it. i believe we are at an inflection point. the election in 2020, without hyperbole, is going to be the most important election this country has undergone in over 100 years. not a joke. there is so much at stake. our core values are being shredded. our standing on the world's risk.is at i still. travel the world. , i still meet with heads of state alone the world. they are confused. they are concerned. they wonder where we are. , our democracy is under threat. by thiser posed administration to this nation is not hypothetical or exaggerated, it is real. it is existential. and many of our republican and independent friends know it as well as we do. the: taking your calls for

next 12 minutes this morning on the washington journal, this question -- should joe biden run for president in 2020. paul, from gainesville, virginia. he thinks he should? caller: yes, he is the most qualified person. is he socialist enough, maybe. i think the solution to our problems is cheap labor. i think we need as much cheap labor in the country as possible. labor is too expensive. i think joe has the background, progressive background, but we can bring in more undocumented immigrants, have them compete against working-class americans, bring down wages for everybody. i think that is a solution. big business has to make more money. small business has to make more money, and medium-sized businesses have to make more money. the only solution is more undocumented immigration, and i think joe can do it, he has a

history of supporting that. daca is part of the plan. so i think joe would be the best qualified candidate to be trump. host: at the outset i think you said, if you socialist enough, i think so. explain what you mean there. is that a question every democratic candidate has to ask himself in 2020 i think we just? caller: -- i think redistricting wealth is on the platform. there are too many wealthy people in the united states. the marginal tax rate is one way to do it, but it is not enough. it is about taking money away from those who may be earned it justifiably and i think joe is right person for that. host: what did joe biden make you less what is he say to make you think you might be socialist enough? caller: supported barack obama's platform, supporting health insurance, i think obamacare was part of that plan, getting us

along the right route, but we just have to take the next step now, and i think supporting obama, eight years in office with president obama, i think that is a lot of experience that. that will help get us further down the road. host: paul, thanks for your call. michael from saratoga, california, and independent who thinks joe biden should run. go ahead. . caller: yes, good morning. i think joe biden should run for president if he wants to. he's very well-qualified. he is what i would call a kennedy democrat. the kennedys put them into office and he is made a career out of being a politician. the reason i think he should run is because it would guarantee four more years of donald trump. , mr. trump is trying to do a good thing, trying to do the right thing. but he is a bit brash and he

does things his own way, answers to his own self more than anyone else. that might be what scares people a little bit, but the country is solidly behind trump. and you can rallies get within hundreds of yards of the place. forget about getting a ticket. he is really that he really has the people in his favor -- he really has the people in his favor. host: is there a democratic candidate who scares you or you think the trump campaign should be concerned about? caller: i am looking at trump and pence. team.s a good that is a dynamic, hardline, strong team. now, who are you going to get to be that team? it is not going to be some fluff witht has to be somebody fortitude. i look at the males outside,

besides burnet, who i like, because he is a breath of fresh air, it is too bad they won't , who is aun -- bernie breath of fresh air. but i think the best chance of being trump will be with a woman. there is an i say that is because the women are smarter. in my opinion. the world is in trouble. we don't need a hardline, but we don't need the same old line. i think all the younger generation, the younger people, especially the asian community and indian community that is coming to the united states through immigration, and the i think they, would rally behind somebody who makes good sense, really good sense. and it is going to take somebody to get trump, to get the economy up and rolling. he is a hard liner when it comes

to these foreign situations, bad deals and bad governance -- the bed agreements we have gotten into, where we financed everything for everybody else. host: we got your point, michael. on twitter and facebook, we have a poll asking the same question we have been asking you. shoot joe biden run for president in 2020? some 5.8 thousand of you have sayingn it so far, 63% he should not run, 37% saying he should run. a few more tweets and facebook comments. benjamin writing -- if someone honestly thinks they are the right person, sure. when the party tries to anoint one specific candidate. we needviewer writes -- joe biden because there will be a lot of work to get things back to where they were before trump.

biden knows where rings look like and i think he would put the very best person, democratic or republican in the position. they would best know how to fix. ae more saying -- beto is younger version of joe biden. joe, step aside and enjoy retirement. connie from florida is an independent who thinks joe biden should run. why not? caller: i think with that last tweet you read, think beto has already been anointed as the media gallery -- media darling. they are honestly going to follow every move he makes, every word he utters. chance, --en has his i think he has too long of a record, just like clinton did come to a long of a record and they will bring up everything he has ever done. he has been in office since he was 29 years old, since 1976. that is way too long of a

-- i will never forget the anita hill hearings. no, i will not vote for joe biden. i felt the same when hillary was running. it wasnot use profanity, heck no hillary, and this is heck no joe. host: beto o'rourke quiz on meet the press yesterday. here is a bit of that interview. >> i would never begin by saying i am at a disadvantage at all. who has hadan privileges that others could not ipend on or take for granted, clearly had advantages over the course of my life. i think recognizing that an understanding that others have not, do it everything i can to ensure that everyone has the opportunity for advancement and advantage for everyone is a big one of the campaign and a big part of the people who comprise campaign.

i just think this is the best field we have ever seen in a nominating process. i think the diversity. that ground, experience, expertise that will be brought to bear on these problems is exceptional and i know that we're all going to be on the same team, and i am excited about that. host: a few minutes left in this segment of the washington journal. we are getting your thoughts on whether you think joe biden should run in 2020. the next color things he should not. why not -- the next caller things he shouldn't. why not? caller: it is nothing but socialism. the country is not going to accept somebody that is socialist. who hads another caller called, who was calling trump a liar, a liar, a liar. well, obama was a liar -- is can keep your doctor -- and a lot of other things. he is just too much of a

socialist. ac, amongst all of these -- every candidate that i see are all socialist. in the country is not going to accept a socialist as president. that is just the way it is. there are a lot of people out there who think that they can trumppeople away from that voted for him, well, they are wrong. we are solid for trump. host: kenneth, before you came on, do you think beto o'rourke is a socialist? caller: yes, i do. i also think he is an empty suit. i haven't heard any ideas from him. a lot of rhetoric, but no ideas that really does that this country is. host: going to accept. this is eric in pennsylvania. an independent who thinks joe biden should run. go ahead. caller: yes, i think joe biden

should run. as a lifetime independent who has been involved with the libertarian party at times, i ottively campaigned for pirrper in 1992, and in 2008 for obama, lean right politically beenhe united states has in socialism for corporations and the pendulum just has to sing back for a little while to right the ship. personally, i am moving to europe in the next year or two. it won't end up affecting me too much, the united states has become kind of silly in the partisanship. the transparency of the corruption is now the thing that people are just excepting, because they are so partisan

loyalty. i don't care if they are dirty or wrong, i just take the other guys. that is no way to run a democratic republic. on this socialism think it host: one question on your mood to test move to europe, do you plan to stick around for the 2020 election? a courtt is all around case. if it drags on a little longer, i will participate in the 2020 election. my primary motivation is to vote against donald trump. i am a native new yorker. did votey i reside in for donald trump. i warned these people. donald trump was on the cover of my local newspaper most of my life. i told people that.

they did not believe it. like a votingy tests. we have a lot of people going to the polls on completely wrong information that they treat like a religion. they don't treat it like a democracy, where it is their about thingsformed like the rule of law and the definition of socialism from which a state ownership of the means of production. socialism is of exactly why donald trump is paranoid about his taxes becoming public. host: stick around. plenty more to come. we will be joined by the president of the bipartisan policy center, jason grumet, to in washington.k we will be joined by darrell west to discuss his book divided politics, divided nation.

we will be right back. >> once, tv was simply three giant networks on pbs. network with an unusual name rolled out a big idea. let viewers decide on their own what was important to them. c-span opened the doors to washington policymaking, bringing you unfiltered content from congress and beyond. in the age of power to the people, this was true people power. the landscape has changed. there is no monolithic media. youtube stars are a thing. c-span's big idea is more relevant today than ever.

no government money supports c-span. ofs nonpartisan coverage by youron is supported cable or satellite provider. you can make up your own mind. >> the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. country not what your can do for you. ask what you can do for your country. >> and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon. book, thes newest presidents. the besttorians rank and worst chief executives. stories gathered by interviews with noted presidential historians. explore the life events that

shaped our leaders, challenges they faced, and the legacies they have left behind. published by public affairs, the presidents will be on shelves april 23. you can preorder your copy today. >> "washington journal" continues. host: jason grumet joins us now. he serves as president of the bipartisan policy center. outseted congress at the of a presidential election year. is that just a recipe for gridlock in washington? congress is brittle, but it is not fundamentally broken. we believe there are a number of things this congress can do that would make them more capable of

solving problems. there is an opportunity agenda of five or six things that could actually pass in this congress. host: there was will at the end of the last congress to pass the first step act of criminal justice reform. can you explain how that bipartisan coalition came together and how the same sort of coalition could form around the same sort of legislation. guest: that is an excellent example. you had some real leaders, chuck grassley and dick durbin, both who have a lot of experience and who are real legislators, not just show horses. side, doug collins and hakeem jeffries. legislative our action award. none of these folks are centrists. mistakes people make when they think about bipartisan is they think it is this gentle game. the way bipartisan works is you

have principled republicans, serious progressives, conservatives and liberals, who capital in their own party that they can find a middle. coming outtrong view of the religious community that we need to to think more about rehabilitation. among aggressive's, there was a sense that rigidity with mandatory minimums and treatment while incarcerated do not allow them to move forward when they are back in society. we did not get everything, but it is a first that. host: what are other issues that could work? guest: there are a number of issuesguest: that speak to the populist frustration in the country. you may have heard this before. according to the treasury, almost half the working folks in this country could not lay their

hands on $400 without going to a payday lender. that is terrifying. over the last generation, real income has been flat. the cost of public colleges has gone up by a factor of three. people are scared, discouraged, angry. we need to do something. there is this idea of five or six legislative motions, investment in early childcare, paid parental leave, addressing the opioid epidemic, dealing with retirement security, higher ed reform. all of these can come together. lso infrastructure legislation. they all have bipartisan sponsorship in the congress right now. it is a question of whether leadership is willing to step back and let the committees do their work. host: which of those is farthest along?

in the presidential election cycle, the closer we get to the actual election, the last these issues are likely to move. guest: in the good old days, you would have functional deliberative democracy for two or three years, and then a tough election contest. we are in a tough election contest all the time. it is tough in 2018 and 2019. the issue we are most focused on is paid parental leave. we are the only western democracy that makes people choose between their new kids and a paycheck. parent does working not have access to any kind of paid leave. only one in six have access to quality paid leave. there is a real notion out there that we should do something about this. you have support among progressives like kristen children.

mike lee and joni ernst just introduced legislation. this is an issue of ivanka trump has been pushing forward. chris dodd and rick santorum working together to hammer out a path forward. that is a piece of legislation we think could become law. host: if you want to weigh in, you can do so. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. he will be with us until just past 8:30. you have talked in the past about the mechanics of how congress works in steps congress could take to make the process better. one of the things you talk about

on this was more confidentiality on capitol hill. does that and less transparency? notinglet me begin by the 40th anniversary of c-span, a wonderful contribution to our democracy. it is not more transparency or less, it is the right kind of transparency. whened more transparency it comes to campaign contributions. wantmembers of congress have a conversation, the fact that tv cameras are always on is not always a good thing. the opposite of transparency this privacy, not corruption. in your own life, if you are with youronversation spouse about where to travel for thanksgiving, it would be a different conversation if the in-laws were in the room. the ability to have a forthright requires a views

different environment. tom daschle, who is one of our founders, used to tell me about the clinton impeachment process. during the day, the cameras were on, nothing was getting done. that night, the cameras went off, and they had the most productive, heartfelt, engaging conversations he had ever had as a leader of the senate. you have to find the right way for people to interact. host: you mentioned the 40th anniversary of c-span. thec-span been good for institution? guest: on the whole, it has been fantastic. but not in every single way. when you have your most aggressive constituents staring over your left shoulder, you are not going to have the same kind

of open collaboration that he would have. it is a question of finding the venues that allow for both. call one of the things you for is more congressional travel, more time for members to spend time together. the fundamental requirement of democracy is to resolve real fights. the way we think people get to have real arguments and move forward is if they know each other, just like any other human interaction. we are not going to turn the clock back to the 1970's when members lived here in d.c. we need to find a way for them to get to know each other. you would be amazed how many members have no real personal relationship. that's why we encourage trips together. we are creating the american congressional exchange where we enable members of congress to

spend weekends in each other's districts. we have seen people who did not have much of a relationship have a kind of personal connection where they come back and introduce legislation. a conservative, a great weekend together, came back and introduced legislation about veterans, past the national defense authorization act. is first from south carolina, independent. you are on with jason grumet. i think c-span has done a great job in a lot of ways. i do think a lot of the senators and congressmen, the first thing to get is run to the tv

their face on the tv to be seen for whatever reason, to bring , to be ablemselves to be seen where they can get money from the people that watch facetimeuse they get on tv to a spouse their ideas and everything. host: when you watched c-span, what do you watch for? do you watch the committee hearings, the floor of the house , what are you interested in? caller: i watch mostly the floor things. i don't like much when they run outside to talk to the media. thetch when they talk on floor. when they are sitting there and talking about why they are passing a bill, when they are theyng about the reasons

want to get a bill passed. not for partisan reasons, but the recent the actual ticket things passed. guest: you have made both of our days. i don't think it is surprising at all that it is that moment of intimacy when they don't feel like they are being recorded that you find the most interesting. these lenses are intoxicating devices. it is not surprising at all that when folks run to the camera, they tried to lay out what they think is the red meat that is going to motivate their base. that is part of the democratic process, but it is not the only part. host: springfield, massachusetts, nick. caller: good morning.

this is fascinating. my question is, i may be wrong on this, but i think since the u.s. has never had a true coalition government to bring us , i could picture something like meghan mccain, .oe biden to bring us together i'm just picking names out of a hat, especially after seeing meghan mccain's powerful eulogy. have we ever had anything like that? intuition isk your correct. we are not a parliamentary system. we have generally had a two-party system. this idea of a fusion ticket where you have one democrat and a republican vice president or a andblican president democratic vice president, which

is less likely in this election, is interesting. the fundamental opportunity to have two parties with disagreements and the capacity to resolve those disagreements. i think would be fascinating if you had a split ticket. one of the things some presidents have done is to have members of the other party in their cabinet, which is a step in that direction. ultimately, we need a president to represent the vast majority of the american people. my concern is whether it is president trump or someone from the hard left, we will have another president who represents a minority of the american people. arthur, aessee, democrat. caller: good morning. get rid of mitch mcconnell. he has a conflict of interest. his wife works for donald trump.

he does everything donald trump tells them. we need to get rid of mitch mcconnell. guest: what i love about the democratic line is getting rid of mitch mcconnell is something that would be consistent with the views of most democrats. senator mcconnell is a tactician. seen,he years, we have whether it is, and read, now schumer, leaderships ultimate goal is to maintain their authority. decades,st couple of the leadership has taken over much more control of the process. it used to be that the committees were the places where people had similar interests but partisan differences would come together, form a basis of fact, reconcile their differences can differences, and advanced a law. the committees are shadows of

their former selves. we will see when committees will have strong bipartisan votes and leadership will never take it to the floor. you can have your own complaints about senator mcconnell, i think this is a broader dynamic of leadership that has been discounted with authority. -- absconded with authority. host: the chairman of the oversight and reform committee, elijah cummings, mark meadows, for a moment they stopped to talk about their close friendship. [video clip] >> mr. chairman, you and i have a personal relationship that is not based on color. to go down this direction is wrong. >> i want to thank the gentleman for what you have stated. who ise is anyone

insensitive with regards to race who is sensitive -- sensitive with regards to race, it is me. the son of former sharecroppers. i get it. i listened very carefully. i think. i am not going to put words in her mouth. i think she said she was not calling you a racist. i thought that we could clarify know, of allyou the people on this committee, i have said it and gotten in trouble for it, that you are one of my best friends. i know that shocks a lot of people. >> likewise, mr. chairman. >> you are. i can see and feel your pain. i feel it. what did you think of that moment? guest: a powerful moment, and i

am sure confusing to many watching c-span at the time. you could have a tougher henmittee hearing than the co hearing. the presidency in some ways is hanging in the balance. that was going to be a rough hearing. when you bring race into the hearing, you have made it even harder to have a thoughtful conversation. i think we should really respect did toairman cummings pull it back. it would be ideal if that friendship could animate a more collaborative oversight process because that is one of the ofdamental obligations congress. it is supposed to be the congress overseeing the administration, not democrats and republicans fighting over whether to oversee the

administration. strengthening the committees is one of the most important thing we could do to improve the process. host: go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you to c-span. happy to be celebrating 40 years. some of the comments the guest has been saying with regards to transparency i find concerning because i look at transparency from the accountability aspect, especially in this day when everyone is talking about fake news. a few questions for the guests. what real remedies do constituents have to find out what the public officials that are appointed or elected are having on behalf of the public if not for transparent means of obtaining information being broadcast or disseminated

through the freedom of information act? have thewant people to actual facts of what is being done on their behalf? there is that servant role for everyone in the public that these numbers are actually doing for people. guest: it is a great question. i appreciate the opportunity to unpack this. transparency is fundamental to any functional democracy. the goal is not to turn the cameras off. it is not to prevent the public from having access to what their elected representatives are doing. there are moments in the process when the imperative for deliberation has to override the imperative for transparency, otherwise we are not going to get anything done ever. you have to separate between the question of when members are having conversations and

elaborating on ideas and when people are voting, making final decisions. you mentioned the freedom of information act. who could be against the freedom of information act? we have gotten to the point ofre members and directors agencies are told not to write anything down. for democracy.d if people do not have some zone where they can write their actual beliefs, they are not orng to have it a competent coherent decision making. you would not run a company that way. host: what is your position on -- guest: it is always a balance. you need some capacity for folks to give the president honest advice. if every time you are talking to think thoset, you thoughts are going to become part of the public process, that

will shut down. it is a constructive fight. it comes back to having a congress that is capable of oversight. i would say it is being slightly overused right now. washington, a democrat, good morning. caller: this world is in a bad shape. we have got to learn to get along. we have got to learn to forgive. lincoln, weton to have to learn to associate with each other, get the right kind of education. loveve got to learn how to , help each other when we are down. this is america. from booker washington to martin luther king to all of these good .residents, obama, clinton

as long as we got these superpower people, this is our chance. we have got to worry about these timebombs we have to do with. host: thank you for the call. guest: you have me sitting up straight. you really said it. what i will say to you is that has to start at home. one of the things that has changed the conduct of our congress is we all fell short. c-span is one of the few experiences where you have democrat, independent, and republican lines. we sort ourselves on television. we hang out with people who make us feel comfortable. that lack of town square, you don't just walk into the hardware store and have the kind of political conversations people used to have. they are afraid of having those conversations.

they hear, don't talk about politics with your friends. politics withbout your friends. clay in louisiana, republican. caller: good morning. . watch c-span a lot in reference to the dysfunctional congress, i would like to remind this gentleman, who presents himself very well, i watched the supreme court hearings, and when i watched the juvenile, infantile, dysfunctional group of democrats who hearkened back to this individual's fifth grade yearbook, how are you going to cope with that type of congressional members? i'm not sure i want my congressman to cooperate with .he other side i started voting for eisenhower.

andve never seen the media congressman attacked the president. he is our president. i voted for him. i will vote for him again. guest: that is a wonderful,. the caller just -- comment. expressed the solution and the problem. in my experience, most members of congress are good people with bad incentives. those incentives are driven by people like our caller who say i don't want my member of congress to collaborate with the other side. that is what you saw at the caps off hearings. members of congress are trying to please their constituents. if their constituents say do not talk to the people on the other side, it is all or nothing for me, you will see more kavanaugh hearings. this network starting more than 30 years ago has been asking the supreme court to open

their proceedings to cameras. what is your take on that? guest: love c-span. places there are some where deliberation should be the key. i don't think there is any more deliberative moment in our country than supreme court conversations. we are not suggesting they cannot be covered by the media. that would be wrong. we really don't need our supreme court justices mugging for the camera. we don't need our federal reserve board mugging for the camera. there are some places where the goal is a tenor of discussion, which is hard to do on tv. if anybody gets in there, it c-span but i am fine with the notion that the supreme court is a different kind of mood. host: jerry is a republican. go ahead. caller: the morning. a radicalt to suggest

idea. what would be the effects of eliminating the two parties? one third of the people in the country are neutral anyway. like if we had our politicians on the same team, we could get more done. yes, a radical composition. about 30% or 40% of the country registers independent, must all independents vote consistently with one party or the other. we have a lot of people that are very frustrated with both parties and want to disassociate themselves. we don't have a large swath of the country that is moving back and forth election to election. we have some. the question of eliminating the parties, i understand the appeal of that, but that kind of rings

like an authoritarian government. the story of this country has been the construction of ideas of people who represent different ideas. respectre going to pluralism, you have to have debate. the mechanisms of democracy are better than the silence or violence when you don't have democratic debate. host: a few minutes left with jason grumet of bipartisan policy center. pennsylvania -- i'm sorry, richard is in massachusetts, independent. go ahead. caller: hello. with politicians, you talk about congress and all this. i went to congress in session. it is nothing but empty chairs. they are all across the street making calls for donations. they don't do nothing.

i can't believe the american people cannot wake up. they all say the same thing over and over again. i am 75 years old. i never voted as they are all liars. i can't believe how stupid the american people is to believe these guys. that is all i have to say. me answer the first third of that question, which is that members are not legislating because they are across the street in call centers. it is a real issue. a member once described himself to me as a glorified telemarketer who occasionally gets to vote on the secretary of education. most people focus on the extent to which money itself could be influential for correcting, which is a fair conversation, but somewhat exaggerated.

very few people focus on the amount of time members of congress have to spend raising money. a freshman member is told they should expect to spend four hours a day raising money. that is ridiculous. you mention that most people think congress are a bunch of dummies. if congress started accomplishing things, that would change. they had those four hours to be in committee hearings, talking to one another, reading, that would change a lot. we should think about campaign-finance reform to reduce the amount of time they raiseraising money and to the campaign donation limits, not to limit them. host: go ahead. caller: good morning. just let me get to this point. inst, complements to c-span that there are more viewers, listeners watching c-span every combined.nn and msnbc

i think it is a great example of how you hear this cliche of the tail wagging the dog is such an example that of these low viewership media channels are running the agenda in the ground . i looked up the numbers. msnbc hasxample, and fewer viewers everyday than the population of detroit, michigan, or seattle. it is very few folks watching, but it seems they are wagging the dog. the point i want to get to is this gentleman is an expert. i appreciate him and his point of view. he acted surprised when a caller suggested that we have this tool dual political representation after election.

he acted surprised by that, but that was george washington's example he said. he said, let's have the most elected president in the next most votes elected vice president. donald trump and hillary clinton of all things in this last election. there is some unity and all that. i'm a conservative independent. today's program has been one of ever.est you ladies and gentlemen who have called and have been an encouragement to me. excellent. host: thank you for the call. one note, we don't do ratings here at c-span. we know that c-span is available in 100 million homes around the u.s. i think the idea of a fusion ticket, whether it is president who picks a vice

president from the other party, or if we had a constitutional amendment to change the way voting influences the outcome is interesting. what i was strongly opposed to is the idea that's through -- that through some government fiat we should make everyone agreed. the notion that in a democracy we should have one party is suggesting we take away the capacity for people to take away their views. i am pretty sure that is not what george washington intended. host: jason grumet is the president of the bipartisan policy center. guest: thank you. host: at the top of the hour, we will be talking with author darrell west about his new book "divided politics, divided nation." until then, we will take up a question in his book, do you think president trump has made

america great again? you can start calling it now. we will be right back. >> the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. k not what your country can do for you. ask what you can do for your country. >> the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon. >> c-span snow spoke the presidents, -- newest book the presidents. it provides insight into the lives of the 44 american presidents through stories gathered by interviews. explore the life events that shaped our leaders, challenges

they faced, and the legacies they have left behind. published by public affairs, the presidents will be on shelves april 23. you can preorder your copy today at c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: for the next 25 minutes this morning, question for you, do you think president trump has made america great again? the reason we are asking this question is our next guest, 2018ll west, proposed in before the state of the union address on his facebook page, that he was not disappointed by the nearly 150 people who responded. we are proposing it now to have this discussion with you. if you think president trump has

made america great again, (202) 748-8000. if you think he has not, (202) 748-8001. bob is first from new york. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. headache, butand i had to respond to this because absolutely. i do want to make a comment in reference to a hearing the other day with cummings. he was browbeating, i forget who it is, because i have a cold. in reference to bill clinton on census put on there are you a citizen? no problem when bill clinton did it. my senator,calling

chuck schumer. they know i am going to call. question, how many people are in our country illegally, and what is it costing us? we should know this. we need to know this. why does the supreme court have to make this decision when it has been done by past presidents? bill clinton had no problem. host: the hearing you are referring to was originally the one with commerce secretary wilbur ross, and viewers can watch that online at c-span.org. , the phrasequestion is make america great again. when did america stop being great? it is not that. it is the attitude. i was in business for 55 years. puty year, the government roadblocks in front of me to

make my business harder. i had to work harder to make the same money. i was regulated. just by taking all these choked and, i was stymied the point i could hardly run my own business. all this stuff rated jobs. if i needed to get a from it, i did not need to get a permit. not my business, but other goinesses in florida have to so many different places for the same permit. it is ridiculous. they provide jobs. you only need to go to one or two places. environmental impact statements. host: thank you for the call. from maryland.

go ahead. caller: first of all, america has always been great. i am 62 years old. i am a retired engineer, african-american. i grew up in the inner city. i earned my degree. structural engineering from the university of maryland. i worked 35 years in the defense industry. america has always been great. the problem is we have a bunch of white folks who love donald trump so much that they think america is not great because they do not have their white was. -- their no education white privilege. they have no education. over 90% of the republican party is white. they live in their own world. they could care less about my experiences. i am a guy who experienced more

races and discrimination in the first 15 years of my life than any white person will in a lifetime. america has always been great. excuses only satisfy those who make them. colorado --s no bill in colorado. caller: america has always been great. the fact of the matter is donald trump is just giving this country away. i am worried about the country. i am worried about him and what he is doing. host: what president trump was doing last night, he was tweeting. his tweet last night, make america great again. do you think president trump has made america great again? barbara is calling from ohio. the head. caller: i do think he made it

great again. i love him. i'm going to stick with him. host: talk to me about why you think he made it great again? caller: he has done everything for business from everything for more money americans have to spend. that is all i have to say. i think he is great. host: glenda in virginia. what do you think? caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: i think he has made america great again. i will vote for him again. i think he has done great. job orwas looking for a two years. job.he got in, he got the i really like him. i will vote for him again. host: jill in alabama does not

think president trump has made america great again. caller: america will never be great to we get the drug cartel money out of the democratic and that is why they don't want the wall. think it do you takes to bribe these people? host: do you think president trump is moving in the right direction? caller: he is doing what he can. these people paid $100 million to the president of mexico. how much do you think it takes to bribe these congressmen and senators? not much. they have plenty of money. that is why they don't want the wall. host: president trump plans to run on the border wall emergency in 2020. president trump issued his first veto to congress. his campaign sent out three different racer emails --

fundraising emails bragging about that. liberals in the senate chose politics. i chose you." anthony is next. do you think trump has made america great again? caller: i do. i think he is trying to make america great again. it is being miss phrase. making ambition grady get would go over -- great again. that would go over with more people. we have come to rely on our government in many areas. when we crossed this country in the 1800s, ambition is what made and across the

country. ambition is what drove this country to be great. we are settling down into a more government control person. that is not a good thing for america. make ambition grady get. if that was the slogan, more people could get behind it. host: give me an example of where you're seeing that today. caller: that is my point. i think ambition has been on the decline. i think we see it in our participation rate in our labor force. a lot of people find it necessary to stay out of the workforce. they are getting subsidies of some sort. i don't think that is a bad idea to give subsidies to people who need it. notion,t behind that democrats and republicans can get behind it.

has,whole idea of maggot which i support, i don't think it is a white hood. i think that is ridiculous. kentucky,kid from what was done to him was a travesty. i think if ambition replaced the word america, a lot more people would see we need to get back to where individual has the need to up.himself and pull himself host: this is david in wisconsin. good morning. thank you. i have been watching c-span for over 30 years, big donald trump supported. he is doing the right thing for our country. host: do you think he has made america great again? caller: i certainly do. of someghting a battle republicans and all the democrats.

he has really got his work cut out for him. host: where are you specifically seeing the greatness? caller: the greatness is he is trying to build our borders on the southern border especially. the jobs, the economy, the trade markets. he is doing the best he can, and he is nothing but resistance fighting him. i don't get it. host: do you think president trump has make america great again? if you think he has, (202) 748-8000. if you think he has not, (202) 748-8001. line,is on the latter from new york. go ahead. caller: i have been trying to follow you guys. you do the best you can. it is still hard to get on.

you cannot tell when you are going to talk. to get to the point about donald trump. statingt guest was statement is factually. when you talk about the parties, of theke up about 47% american human people. that means there is 53% of the population that is not being represented in this country because of the democrats and republicans. let's get to the america question. united states nation. i am a god-fearing human america who is watching on tv. old, i have never thought the russians would be capable justuclear over america and land in venezuela. there is something wrong with that.

before was always great the government came to this land and stole it from a race of human beings. it was always a great land. the government came and took the land. the government enslaved another race of humans in the name of god. donald trump is morally bankrupt. i have never seen this country so bankrupt. if you have a question for me, i would love to answer some. you don't have any questions for me when i talk to host: thank you. we do our best to make this a town hall format, to let you decide on c-span. 1979ve been doing it since . celebrating our 40th anniversary tomorrow. we hope you continue to join us. kenny is in maryland. go ahead. of course, america has

always been great. america has to start paying its bills. top came in saying he would pay off our national debt. the national debt under donald trump is up hundreds of millions of dollars. we will have $1 trillion of debt under donald trump this fiscal year. the trade deficit with china, would his supporters think it is up or down? the trade deficit is up under donald trump, not down. cut, most of it went to these huge corporations. the average person out there, ask the average donald transporter how much money they have in the stock market? cuts didmoney for tax not go to the average donald trump supported. under barack obama, job growth was higher overall the donald

trump. the unemployment rate is around 4%. one barack obama left office, it was 4.6%. it is funny how the facts and realities of these numbers don't resonate with his rhetoric. he is the best salesman i have ever seen. he has been that way for 30 years. he has sold this to a lot of folks who are not used to seeing it. i am surprised they buy into his nonsense. he plays them like a fiddle over and over. go, what do you say to republicans, you mentioned your concern about spending and debt, what do you say to republicans who point to things, as stephen moore does in today's washington times, things like medicare for all, the green new deal. he points out that this is a

$100 trillion agenda democrats have. what you say to those folks? i have not looked into the green new deal in detail. there are a few presidential candidates trying to make a mark. if you ask the average democrat out there, if social security and medicare and medicaid are socialism, we are for it. the people that pay into medicare, medicaid, social security, for every dollar they put in, they get 10 to $20 back out. we support those programs. a lot of elderly folks somehow support the republican party somehow believe those programs are socialist and would never support them today, but they vote for that party that would love to get rid of those programs that have been the safety net of america over and over to protect our seniors.

republicans don't support those programs. giving credit to donald trump, he is not going after those programs. every republican believes social security, medicare, and medicaid are socialism. if they don't want those programs, they continue to vote for republicans. dream fromis a wisconsin. has president trump make america great again? caller: we have been in america for 13 years. we are legal immigrants who came to america in 2003. we paid $50,000 out of our pockets. make sure everybody that comes into this country does it properly. you can never do what liberals want to do and play politics. we lost our country where we came because of that because leftist communists took it over.

host: what country did you come from? caller: i prefer not to say. i fear. we are from africa. it is a disaster where we came from. we had to leave because of the policies of the country. host: did you think america was great when you came in 2003? caller: yes. we always have the perception america was great. we just have the image over the television when we looked. food, all the assistance. americans coming in helping whenever there was a crisis in africa. president trump confirmed that america should be and was great poland wherelly in he said preserve western civilization, or judiciary, our

founding fathers. i do not exclude people that will embrace european civilization because that was a success. where we came from is not a success. embrace andle to hold onto that civilization. we do not want to lose that. barrier andr of the checking who comes in. you have to know who comes in. our many enemies of america are out there. we have experienced it first. it is coming. get to a few to more colors. leslie has been waiting in pennsylvania. as president trump make america great again? caller: i believe he has. america was always great. i'm a black man. i am 40 years old. i have always voted democratic.

i changed from being a democrat or republican because of the fact i see democrats, all they do is everything for americans, they block it. that is what donald trump this work. donald trump is for american people. that is why i changed from democrat to republican. donald trump cares for the american people. the democrats don't. they just want illegal immigration, open borders. cities,ts a lot of the a lot of the small people fighting to make a living. the illegal immigrants are coming in, taking over their jobs. they don't pay taxes. get goesmoney they straight to their pocket. whatever money we get goes to the government. we don't have enough to feed our families. host: you something seven going

downhill fast. when did they start going downhill? went, cited obama -- when that policy came into effect, other people outside our country was getting these jobs. that was going downhill fast. that right there, the jobs was going to be taken over seas. we have nothing to do but collecting government paychecks. host: maggie waiting in western virginia. caller: thank you. actually, america is the greatest country.

so no, he hasn't made this country great again. sentimentng with the of a lot of americans here. the helsinki conference should be the waking call for everyone. the deal with north korea falling on its face. i don't understand how come republicans are just turning a blind eye to everything he's doing an open sight. this is not acceptable. you are playing with the human sentiment. you are dividing the country even more. how is he helping with anything, like the fighting with fox news all the time -- siding with fox news all the time? how can the president do such a thing? this is unbelievable. host: we continue the conversation into our next segment this morning. we are going to be joined by darrell west, author of the book "divided politics, divided nation: hyper conflict in the

trump era." stick around for that discussion. we will be right back. ♪ >> the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. >> ask not what your country can do for you. ask what you can do for your country. >> and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us. [cheers] announcer: c-span's new book, "the presidents," provides

insights into the lives of the 44 american presidents with noted presidential historians. explore the events that shaped our leaders, challenges they faced, and the legacies they have left behind. published by public affairs, c-span's "the presidents" will be on shelves april 23. you can preorder your copy as a hardcover or e-book today at oran.org/thepresidents wherever books are sold. announcer: "washington journal" continues. grumet darrell west -- host: darrell west joins us now, author of "divided politics, divided nation." our question in our previous segment came from a thought experiment in your book. what did using of the responses? guest: i thought the responses for -- responses were great.

everybody has an opinion on trump's impact on america. as you point out, what i did in my book about political polarization in america was to post every question on my facebook page. this was a year into trump's presidency, on the cusp is his first major state of the union address. i got responses very much along what you got there. very polarized views. people who love trump, people who hate trump. there's very little moderation. host: the book "divided politics, divided nation: hyper conflict in the trump era," what is hyper conflict? how is it different from regular conflict we've seen in the past? guest: this is not the first time we've had political polarization, but i use the word hyper conflict to signify the fact that we are facing a very high level of partisan conflict, lots of polarization, a rise of extremism both on the left and right.

so we are in a very unusual time , even by the standards of american history, so we need to take this seriously. we are in a time where political polarization is dangerous for america. we have to figure out how we got to this point, what are the root causes of polarization, and how we deal with it. host: if you want to talk about some of those issues, you can join the conversation with darrell west until the end of our program today at 10:00 this morning. you can call in on phone lines ,or democrats, (202) 748-8000 for republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. you explore some of those themes through the lens of your family. who are kent, joanne and shirley? guest: my brother and my two sisters. didn't want to just write an abstract book about polarization because in many respects, i wanted to write a family memoir. the story of my life has been polarization.

i grew up on a dairy farm in among a very conservative community, both in terms of politics and religion. i taught for 26 years at brown university, a very liberal institution. i feel like i've lived among both tribes. with my immediate family, we are kind of a microcosm of america. i have two sisters who love trump, and my brother and i are not big fans of donald trump. we always have very interesting reunions. i was just in ohio last week and talked with my sisters. we try to maintain civility in our relation even though we disagree on politics. host: talk about the latest escutcheon in your family -- the latest discussion and your family over the emergency declaration at the u.s./month ago border. -- u.s./mexico border. guest: certainly many things trump has done have divided my family, and i think that is true across america. as i've been talking about my

book, people have been emailing me saying it is very interesting to read about the divisions within your family. we experience the same thing in our family. elevatedrump has personal tensions in a lot of respects. my family, my sisters still are supporting president trump. i periodically check in with them just to see how they are feeling. i know if trump loses either one or the other of my sisters, he's lost his base, so that would be a very revealing indicator of his political standing. so far they are hanging in there. my brother is not so keen on president trump, nor am i, so basically whenever there is an issue, whether it is the emergency declaration or brett kavanaugh hearings, i try to check with them just to see how they are feeling. host: what was the first issue that divided you and your siblings when it came to donald trump? guest: well, just going back to the election, i certainly had a

strong negative reaction to some of the rhetoric, the divisiveness he talked about. certainly there were disagreements on the issues. i remember conversations with my siblings going back to 2015 when trump first announced, and certainly during the 2016 campaign. once he became president, which surprised many people, those conversations continued. from the early decisions on the muslims, to the other policy action he's engaged in, we've talked about those issues. i respect my sisters even though we disagree on politics. guest: is this a book just about the divide, or do you talk about how to heal that divide? i talk about how we reached this point but what we can do to address it. it is really a 40 year political

history from reagan to trump. even though sometimes people claim trump for the hyper partisanship and conflict we are seeing today, obviously it did not start with him. it has unfolded over several decades. so there are lots of things that have contributed to that divide, and we have to understand that those contribute in factors -- we have to understand those contribute in factors if we want to understand them. i think one factor is the combination of geography and economics. my metro colleagues at brookings did a study in which they found 15% of american counties right now generate about 64% of our country's gdp. what that means in practical terms is almost all of the economic activity in the united states is on the east coast, the west coast, and a few metropolitan areas in between. there are large parts of america that are not generating any economic activity, that don't have jobs. there's no future. there's a sense of hopelessness. there's an opioid crisis that

plagues many of those communities. those are places that ended up voting for donald trump. they don't like the status quo. they don't always agree with trump. they don't necessarily think he is a good person. but they like the fact that he is trying to disrupt things. but of course, liberals see that disruption and had a very different take. this guy is crazy. he has views that are extreme. he is damaging america's standing in the world. all of that contributes to the polarization you see today. host: we want to talk about more of those contribute in factors, but also let you chat with some callers. oscar has been waiting in virginia, a democrat. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i'm intrigued by the fact that yesterday, timely enough, there was a special on cnn about tricky dick, the history of richard nixon, when he had the un-american committee.

ironically, they were looking after seeing out communists. if you had the word communism in your resume, you were a target. i think of donald trump when he stood up and spoke about socialist countries, that we are not a socialist country. it reminded me of that same type of thing 50 years ago. even hollywood actors were being jailed and brought into hearings in congress. can you comment on that? and your point about the cities, it is true. the kkk is still active in northern michigan and many parts , so thisamerica socialist agenda trump keeps hammering is poisonous. your thoughts, please. guest: ok. that is a great question. i think it certainly is the case that polarization dates back

very early in the post-world war ii period. the caller's that caller it caller -- that the caller is referring to, there was a lot of communist division. if you look at congress and the 1950's, it was something like half of the members were moderate in their political leanings. we had conservative democrats and liberal republicans. there were moderates in both parties. if you look at what has happened to the united states over the past 50 to 70 years, those moderates, one by one, have withdrawn from politics, retired, got beaten and primaries. today that number is about 5%. basically only about 5% of the numbers of congress are moderate in nature. host: as you talk through that, we can show viewers a chart from your book that shows the decline visually over the years of moderates in the u.s. house.

go ahead. guest: it is very dramatic when you look at that truck because it shows how america went from -- look atngress that chart because it shows how america went from having a congress it was moderate in nature, that was ok to reach across the aisle for bartering and -- for bargaining and compromise come over today bargaining is surrender to the other side. it shows how dramatically the political landscape has changed. host: in wake forrest josh, a republican. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have two comments. one, what i've noticed is part of the reason we have such a divide in this country is really a dividing line between city living and country living. for instance, if you look at two of the top issues, gun control and immigration, gun control isn't even an issue in the country, whereas in the city

with income of people deal with elements thatr cause guns to be a problem. and then if you look at immigration, for instance, immigration isn't as serious of a problem in cities because folks tend to live together in their own communities and people are kind of self separated that way. you can go to one part of the city that is very high-end, and another part of the city that is low-end. but in the country you can't really avoid that. when you have a lot of immigration and people coming into school systems and hospital systems, it is much more of a burden, so people in the country see immigration is a much more serious problem than people in the city. finally, one last thing i would like to point out is i think our media has also become hyper partisan. especially social media. it is too easy to manipulate and divide people such that even other countries are looking at it, and seeing how easy it is to divide americans by using social

context taking out of potentially small stories and blowing them into big ones. guest: i would agree with both of those points. certainly the urban/rural split is a big part of polarization. as i mentioned before, i grew up on a dairy farm, so for the first 20 years of my life, lived in the country and was very conservative in terms of both politics and religion, and then moved to the city and got an education and taught in a liberal university. there are huge differences on the issues. you mentioned gun control. you mentioned about gratian. the role of really -- you mentioned immigration. the role of religion is very important. the state of the economy is different. most prosperous places in america is urban america. when amazon tries to find a new

headquarters, it didn't go to the midwest or rural areas. it went to new york city and washington, d.c. all of that kind of reinforces that divide and intensifies the anger that is out there because the people who live in places that are being left behind economically are upset, and i understand that. they are right to be upset. that certainly is a big part of the polarization. the media angle is very important as well, especially the social media. many americans now live in a world of information segregation. it is like liberals are watching sites and going to liberal internet sites to get their information. conservatives are going to conservative sites. the problem is we are going to sites that reinforce our existing beliefs. but we need to do is try and diversify our sources of information. sites,a range of

liberal, moderate and conservative. i watch fox news from time to time just so i can understand the views of people with whom i don't necessarily agree. people aren't doing that anymore. we basically are living in echo chambers, and it kind of reinforces the polarization because each side ends up having its own set of fact. today's "newn in york times" on this issue, robert leonard and matt russell are the authors from knoxville, iowa, "how democrats can win rural voters," if viewers want to check that out. go ahead. caller: united we stand, divided we fall. i am the chairperson of a project that, after slavery was over, friedmann because of the third -- freed men because of the 13th amendment was allowed

to re-institutionalize people in the prison industrial complex. america has a history of taking people, taking land from the , and thefrom mexico project to reinstitutionalize people they have affected. i believe this came out of the white supremacy act that the federal government authorized after slavery to do that and to appease the white supremacists in the south, there will we have here is a nation that needs to come to repentance for what she's doing and what she has done and continues to do. the national rifle association at all of the bigotry, and say the people who it these guns are ill, but believe what happened over there in new zealand is a prime reason of why donald trump is dividing the nation and the world.

to commit wars around the world like we did in a rock and up -- in iraq and other places, and like we are trying to do in venezuela. king saidsaid -- dr. america is violence in the world. that's why i believe we need to wars no don't start more and become peace lovers and not advocate the violence. host: thanks for the call this morning. on the issue of white supremacy, the charges that the president's rhetoric is a contributive factor in the attack in new zealand, the president's acting chief of staff mick mulvaney was on yesterday talking about this issue. >> the president is not a white supremacist. i'm not sure how many times we have to say that.

you asked the question every time something like this happens overseas or even to best italy, to say it must somehow be the president's fault. ofspeaks to a politicization everything that is undermining the institutions we have today. let's take what happened in new zealand for what it is, a terrible, evil, tragic act, and figure out why those things are becoming more prevalent in the world. is it donald trump? absolutely not. is there something else happening in our culture where people think i am going to go on tv and livestream me murdering other people? that's what we are talking about. >> if i may, all i'm saying is the president speaks out about a lot of things that he is not responsible for, and he doesn't feel that there is any link. terrorism. why not make a speech and make it clear that there is no place in america for this kind of hatred? >> i think you saw that yesterday in the tweet. i'm not sure what more than you -- what more you want the president to do. maybe we do that. maybe we don't.

but you get down to the basic issue, the president is doing everything we can to prevent this type of thing from happening here. the president is doing everything we can to make it clear this has to stop. the work that we do, including, as i mentioned at the onset, with our kiwi friends to prevent this from happening is a essential part of defending this nation, which is how the president spins a great deal of his time. it is a tragedy, and i get that, and we are in a hyper-partisan time in our country, but that doesn't mean we have to bury these events. host: darrell west. guest: i think what people want more from donald trump is empathy. there have been shootings of the united states. we have the tragic case in new zealand. when you look at past presidents, republican or democrat, whenever there are mass shootings, the president always expresses sentiments trying to bring people together, to understand the tragedy. we don't see that from president

on terrorist actions or in other ways. that is one of the reasons he has helped to elevate the conflict and why people have such strong reactions to him. host: jeremy is here in washington, d.c., a democrat. caller: good morning, mr. west. thank you for taking my call. i wanted to ask you for your patients before i make my comments. i try to be as concise as possible. i've been listening for a while, and i have read a lot about this administration. i think we are living in such a disturbing time, and it is alarming. it is about time we realize must what trumpze much of says is provocative. i believe the president's rhetoric has had a role in encouraging violence and the rise of what tipper missy, -- of white supremacy and division in our country. trump's words are playing a part

in corroding democracy, as well as his lies about his political opponents, and his delusions of patriotic violent response. seriously, what kind of president promotes violence to achieve his goals? is it sustained patterns of attacks on the free press? name-calling. holding political rallies encouraging violence. support from military, police, and bikers for trump, insinuating they attack others for not liking what he's wanting to do. separation of powers. due process. human rights and democratic values. he continues to undermine democracy on a daily basis.

host: mr. west. guest: those are certainly strong words. it shows the intensity of people's reactions to president trump. certainly when you look at his policies, i don't agree with many things he is doing. i certainly don't like the insults that he often makes. seewe are also starting to more extreme rhetoric from democratic candidates. there were a number of progressive individuals who were elected in 2018. so what i have observed in looking at the four year history of the united states, 1980 up through the current period, we seem to be swinging from one extreme to another. reagan gave us clinton. clinton gave us bush. bush gave us obama. obama gave us trump. it makes me wonder whether trump will help to elect the most progressive president that america has ever had.

to keep a handle on the rhetoric from all sides of the political spectrum. trump certainly has injected a lot of negative rhetoric into the national conversation. we just have to try and bring the country back together so that we can have a reasonable discussion on major issues. host: one way you say we can do that is through the use of universal voting requirement. explain. guest: one of the things i did in the book was to try and talk about what our structural reforms that actually could make a difference in terms of lowering extremism, improving civility, getting more people involved in the political process. if you look at public opinion, public opinion is not as divided as the rhetoric in d.c. or the discussions that take place in congress. among the general public, there still are a lot of moderates out there.

the problem is in presidential elections, only about 60% of the people vote. so in a situation of low turnout, politicians have many incentives to play to the base. liberal candidates are going to play to their base. conservative candidates are playing to their base. so we end up having more extreme rhetoric. universal voting is a system that australia uses, where people are expected to vote, and it is a $35 fine if you don't vote. they have 90% to 95% turnout. i think if we had 90% to 95% turnout in america, we would have less extremism and polarization because the public is less extreme than the washington rhetoric or many national politicians. host: what is another structural reform? guest: i think we need to understand that a big problem of polarization is the loss of economic opportunity. steps that will rejuvenate the american dream.

certainly when i was growing up, i had tremendous opportunities. i grew up in a working-class family, got a great education, and was able to go on to great jobs in the future. when i look at relatives in the midwest i'm of the children of my high school friends, it has been a lot harder for them because education is more expensive, health care is more expensive, buying a first home is more expensive. part of the frustration people see today is it is a lot harder to earn a living and pursue your dream. we need to think about policies that help the middle class and provide the kind of opportunities that i had when i was growing up. host: you talk about growing up. when do you think was the beginning of the political divisions between you and your brother and your sisters? when did that start? guest: i think every presidency in the last 40 years contributed in the sense that there were divisions over reagan, but now when we look back, reagan

almost seems moderate compared to bush and trump. certainly credits some divisions, when he had the affair with monica lewinsky. my relatives were really upset about that. one of them joked that they had the family dog fixed that hillary had neutered the wrong clinton. it was that kind of reaction, very negative. but then bush polarized america over foreign policy, and certainly the iraq war. obama was very polarizing over obamacare. trump has elevated things to new heights. it is almost as we go from president to president over the last 40 years, the intensity level has increased. the increasing is him -- the extremism has started to increase. people's reactions have become more intense. host: the reactions from your own family made me think about this ad by, credit candidate david brill and the 2018 cycle

against publican -- against we publican paul gosar. >> paul gosar the congressman isn't doing anything to help rural america. >> paul is absolutely out working for his district. >> if they care about health care, they care about their children's health care. they would hold them to account. if they care about jobs, they would hold him to account. >> if he actually cared about people in rural arizona, i bet he'd be fighting for social security, for better access to health care. i'd bet he would be researching what is the most insightful water policy to help the environment of arizona sustain itself and be successful. >> he's not listening to you, and he doesn't have your interests at heart. my name is tim goes-r. ar.tim gos >> paul gosar is my brother. >> and i engrossed dr. brill.

>> i wholeheartedly endorse dr. david brill for congress. host: what did using about that ad when you saw it during the 2018 cycle? guest: it was fascinating because you had paul gosar, a very conservative republican running for reelection, had an ad his brothers and sisters objected to his policy views and basically told the people in that state they should not vote in favor of their own brother. theind of illustrates family tensions that have developed. we saw the same thing in a nevada race where some relatives also spoke out and told voters they should not vote in support their own relative. i think there's a national survey that something like 1/6 of americans have quit talking to family numbers because of political divisions. it is very much in keeping with what i talk about in my family memoir, that politics has become very divisive.

it is dividing families, creating trauma, creating stress. we need to figure out ways to have conversations even when people disagree on the issues. host: is there any issue you can't have a conversation about with your sisters who you disagree with politically? so.t: i don't think over the years, we've had a wide range of discussion about actually pretty open. i think we are -- unusual in the sense that we have maintained a good relationship even though we have -- on the issues. we always call each other on our birthdays. we trade holiday presents. the rest of america is often not able to do that. makes it difficult to talk with relatives. host: is there a toughest moment or a toughest issue when it comes to this relationship? guest: i do have to say the

brett kavanaugh supreme court hearing was pretty divisive among my siblings in the sense i interviewed my brother and my sisters's right after and told them do not tell me anything you do not want me to put in the book. i was finishing the book at that point. sisters were strongly in favor of kavanaugh because he represented their religious and ethical values. they felt all the accusations going back to his high school behavior was completely unfair and the media were slandering him. my brother and i were not so enamored with brett kavanaugh. stakes, that kavanaugh be in the fifth conservative vote on the spring or, we worried about long-term political consequence of that. in a case like that, it becomes harder to have those kinds of conversations here -- conversations. host: "divided politics, divided

nation." is the author of that book. your call on the phone lines. for democrats -- republicans -- independents -- in ohio, republican, thank you for waiting. caller: thank you. the country is divided. the democrat party should stand for -- progressive today. it is the greatest in the world. -- in had laws and it every country to open it up, everybody comes here. the -- to the other countries. country, myve this state of ohio will be the 21st

date, the ratification of the state. our forethought -- forefathers thought ahead. 20 states happen ratified. be 20 first. when we get 34, we can shrink down the government or both parties do not -- do not want to give up their power. i'm not a republican. i'm a conservative. i don't want to trash john mccain but he did give up those papers. -- i don't want to get off topic. the democratic party separates everyone to women, men, black, whites, everything. identity politics. now, beto o'rourke is too white to be president. it is a joke. host: cut your point. guest: -- got your point. guest: i have a chapter on

identity politics about living in a conservative community and teaching at a liberal university. likeerstand why people groups with people who have the same kinds of experiences and problems. i do think identity politics has contributed to the polarization in the sense that we have divided ourselves in a small group and it makes it more difficult to bring people for people to have the same facts and for people to understand those who have different points of view, as opposed to viewing opponents as enemies to bad people with bad motivations. that is a big part of the polarization we see today. you talk about identity politics, some of the same sentiments as those set by cindy, your friend, who was responding to a facebook poach

-- post on martin luther king day, she said you think the obama for the divide. the eight years he was in office is the most divided the country has ever been scared guest: yes -- been. guest: yes. that obama was a divisive president, i know some of my high school friends and many of my relatives were not big fan -- were not big fans of obama. i can understand their discontent more now that trump's president. the wayel toward him some of my friends and relatives felt toward president obama. we still have to figure out a way to have these conversations it is okto understand to have differences of opinions on the issues but we cannot think our opponents are enemies. we cannot think they are bad people. i respect my sisters on the

issues and my has friends on the back aired we have to get to that mentality. host: an independent, go ahead. caller: good morning, gentlemen. everyone claims they want to and legislate but at the end of the day when people go to the voting booths, they vote their interest in the type of governance that they want. i watch both sides. if you look at the democratic platform on the current crew people trying to run for president, i keep hearing a consistent work. free. free college, free health care, money if you don't work. i will never come to the table when people are talking about that, any kind of come together moment. that is my only point. thank you for your time.

i think that is a very reasonable point. just as trump expanded the , this in the right-wing has been the pattern over the past quarter years. was,er the past president we move in a different direction in the next election. political agenda will be much wider. the 2020 election will be a wild election not just because of the number of candidates that division both within the democratic party but between democrats and republicans really intensify. wonderful puts it this way. advocates a different view. at the current

democratic candidates, some people are basically running, unifying types of campaigns and others in the base, you can look at the policy prescriptions and easily categorize the situations. it will be interesting choice. physically moving to the left, embracing a number of progressive causes, or do we nominateebody or someone who wants to bring the country back together, which probably means not going to far to the left, but being centerleft in policy prescriptions. host: democrat, good morning. caller: good morning and good morning to your guest. i am black and have been a democrat all my life.

both of us voted democrat. all of our lives. until 2016 one donald trump said what have you got to lose, we looked at each other and shook our heads, yes, he is right or what have we got to lose? the democrat party has been taking us for granted for the last three years. we are here in a sanctuary city and i can tell you, living in pennsylvania, the manufacturing everyone has money in their pocket. onon't see white supremacy the rise. in from theing borders, theory, pennsylvania.

this is why, my wife is an independent now. she changed from democrat to independent. but both of us, we will vote for trump again. we see that for instance barack super we voted for him majorities and the senate and house, did absolutely nothing. anyways, right now, unemployed -- unemployment among blacks and latinos, is the best he is ever been. that is why when they say the polls, we just add 10% to it. i do not see anything the

democrats are putting up that would get my wife's vote or mine. guest: that is an interesting comment. certainly the strongest case for to jot down ap little bit again. issue.rtainly will be an --mp has difficulty saying staying on message and he should be talking about the economy that he likes to inject issues about immigration and other types of issues that are more divisive in terms of how you react to it. fredericksburg, virginia, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i think the problem is we are , we'reolved in politics talking politics as opposed to

-- in nebraska. rivers, something to look at. we have flooding from mississippi. the environmentalists don't want it. is not global warming. we need more policy. i think we have in entirely too many so-called experts. remember the experts that contaminated and these are

experts from epa. on a republican president. flint, michigan, is completely controlled by democrats. they are always talking about infrastructure, this is what the democrats talk about. roads andalking about bridges. money out oftake -- roads to subsidize and bridges. i agree with the caller that i would like to see a lot more policy issues discussion and less discussion of politics.

turning policy debates into who is winning and who is losing politically, does not advance our understanding of the issues. as a color points out, we face big challenges in terms of the environment, domestic policy, how we handle issues like immigration, not to mention foreign-policy issues with countries around the world. 20 will be a momentous election. substantialface a choice in terms of the future of the country. we need to pay a lot more attention to the policy issues. love to focus on the political angle and less so on the policy issues. host: 538.com has the graphics showing the president passes theoval rating compared to previous presidents. donald trump, the green line and all of these graphs. the black line in the graphs are the approval ratings for other presidents in the first 787 days of their administrations.

if you look at all of them, president trump's approval ratings do not fluctuate as much as other presidents. why is that? guest: trump has figured out in a low voter turnout era, atintiff base guarantees you least a 40% job approval rating. as numbers have fluctuated little bit. they really -- rarely have dropped more than 4%. one thing he has been doing in terms of the way he talks about issues is he has found that in playing to the base, he is able to hold the 40% number. if you compare his job approval ratings to past presidents, he is below many of them. we have had many presidents that have had job approval ratings of the five or even 60%. trump is never going to reach that point because he does not reach across the aisle. the question for him in terms of

2020 is, is a 40% job approval rating going to be sufficient, or does that basically guarantee 60% of the country will vote against him? host: we are with darrell west, the author of "divided politics, divided nation." .aking your calls waiting in florida, an independent. caller: i look at this whole system as a utility. i see a seesaw, republican, democrat, seesaw. each year, you see the selfishness of those who benefit or don't. i hear the president talking about socialism, socialism. hear those saying we have capitalists, capitalists, capitalists. is, the midwest is not going to mature grow into any financial because the potential for growth will go into an area where there is no

potential for growth. then you see that china, so-called communist, they are whipping america with capitalistic ideology. we owe china money and not the other way around. in order totility have to get together in -- and so forth, always his own opinion, this effort is just an effort in futility. the same thinge each four years repeated over and over because we don't have, in order to be in the same page, we must be in the same book -- guest: i would disagree with the question in the sense i do not think we face a futile situation. when it comes to our future but we need to take seriously what we can do about

it. we talk about a lot of steps to address problems and kind of push america forward. talk about improving economic opportunity, making it accessible. one thing i talk about is taking a liberal or a conservative to lunch. if you are a liberal, find a conservative and get to know that person. wet of the problem today is almost dehumanize our opponent and do not treat them as individuals. to view themsy negatively and question their motives. when you engage people directly who have different points of view, you are treating them as an individual and a human and it , even if your still agree on the issues, to overcome those differences and to understand other people's point of view.

i am optimistic in the sense that when you look in american history, we have a highly polarized world. the 1918 -- the 1950's, 1890's, historically, for 10 or 20 years, we have been highly polarized. something happens that brings the country together. in some cases, it is tragic like a war or a foreign attack. sometimes, there is an economic crisis and people come together to fight that. polarization does not go on indefinitely when you look at american history. we are about 25 years into a long by ourime, past standards. it seems to me we will reach a point if we take some of the steps i recommend in the book, we actually can address these problems.

host: democrat, good morning. my question is about voting. the popular vote is not even considered. why do we spend millions and voteons of dollars in on a when people are not heard, it is only a select few people are why should we even vote for a president when our opinion does not count? right that is presidential elections are based on an called the electoral college, not voting. i do talk about the need for structural forms like getting rid of it. i think twice in the last 15 years, we had a situation where the popular vote did not become president. vote, weoral college

look at what we had been talking about, that becomes more common in the future. in ay have -- end up situation where much of the economic activity takes place in 15 states, which basically means the prosperous parts of america 30, and if that happens, and that type of situation emerges, that is a political catastrophe and becomes a constitutional crisis. we need to think about >> inural reforms mississippi, a republican, good morning. division feel a lot of is from the media. the media is mostly nice and 30% is progressive. back, taught progressive and social ways and

-- in colleges and my daughter is about to go to college and all of the colleges are very much liberal purity you cannot have free speech on a college campus. i believe people should have the right to free speech even if it is on facebook, google, or twitter. they are all progressive. they take out they don't agree with. i attended my university ohio and my father, who is very sons arepublican, both democrats. ,hen i taught political science i -- i would raise them and basically say hey, these are the types of arguments in favor of certain kinds of policies. efforts need to make an

to represent multiple points of view. we want young people to really think about the issues and obviously they can reach every conclusions they want but we need to expose them to multiple points of view. why aren't colleges making an effort right now question mark -- now? guest: i haven't taught for years so things might have brown was ai know very liberal institution. there was a survey of undergraduates there, only 5% , i thinkas republican more than 70% of the student bodies, overall, when you look at public opinion surveys, that is reflected in the atmosphere on college campus. >> talk about the atmosphere of conservative students that you worked with.

we did have conservative students, many of them did great things. all of myncourage students, regardless of what their political perspective was, and i think many of my colleagues in clinical signs to the same thing. to new york city, sam is on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. trump gave rise to violence, he should be voted out in 2020. i would like to say something about the shooting and the latest report in the new york times. think it says -- , a well-dressed one with a nice smile. now that the truth -- >> host: we will keep to the topic of divided politics,

divided nation. foreign policy does play into this quite a bit. that in the book. talk about the foreign policy side. guest: foreign policy as part of our political divisions of low. i remember growing up, it was bipartisan, the parties tried to work together and the idea was -- might have differences it on domestic issues but on foreign policy, there is more of a sense on -- of bipartisanship. is completely lost. many foreign-policy issues from saudi's to the relationship with europe and what is going on with china are issues that divide people. one of the big points of division now are people who still want america to engage in the world and be part of the global economy versus others who really want and america first agenda and focus on u.s. domestic problems. time for a couple more calls before our program and set 10:00. republican, new jersey, go ahead. caller: you are what -- you are

talking to a 96-year-old veteran celebrating his 75th wedding anniversary in may of this year. >> congratulations. caller: thank you. what we have now is fake news and hate. to my friend,is darrell. i love you very much and i love everybody. i learned to love my enemies. that is obviously the saddest thing today, that we have hate instead of love. what i'm trying to do, trying to have a good celebration, but i love this country so much. the problem is, and why trump's regime is low is because of the fake news. onlypeople, the democrats rely on fake news. they really, i was a staunch democrat almost all my life because to me, they were people

who were celebrating latinos in california, and someone. this is true. god loves the lowest migrant in the whole world as much as he loves you, darrell, or he loves anyone else. we must love each other. we must forgive each other. anniversary, we will have it say love is the only way. forgiveness is the only solution. now why don't we understand that each individual is so loved by their creator? thate don't understand wants, obama took away life, liberty, and the pursuit

of happiness. that is what we have to go back to. the founding people. we must obey the commandments. moses,d gave them to before that, we were all barbarians. the commandment says they'll shalt not kill people cannot ,ill -- especially a baby born the democrats refuse to pass a the livinguld permit baby to live. this could actually be the best advice we heard all morning long, to love our enemies. that is a very important viewpoint that we have lost in our current, polarized world. this gentleman who has lived more than 90 years, it is great to hear him sharing that kind of advice with us. old bridge, new jersey,

and independent. go ahead. caller: good morning. you bring up the subject of having conversations between the different factions. or aout a liberal conservative. i'm an independent. i have spoken to both. have, seemstive low to have a normal conversation. in other words, if i bring up facts,nd they reject the they recognize the facts and they will turn around and say, well, you are right on this one. i did not know that. totally ignore the facts. it is as though they don't exist, their agenda is it. it is the truth no matter what you show them, and you cannot have a conversation with them. because eventually, it erodes into an argument and they start calling you names.

i will give you the last minute. caller'sagree with the emphasis on facts. part of the current polarization is people have developed their own facts. in part because the media are polarized, people live in a code chamber's, we are only kind of consuming news sources that reflect our previous points of view. i think when we think about how to address polarization, diversify your source for information, i do not agree with that conservatives emphasize facts and liberals do not. --ave had congress conversations on both sides that were fact-based and not fact-based. we have to emphasize the facts. host: darrell west, author of "divided politics, divided nation." we appreciate your time this morning. that will do it for "washington journal" today.