court, so there is robert mosys sitting, framed by his buyer, intimidating, and i will never forget he got up and have this smile, stillarmed at the height of his power, he at the height of his power, and he said "so you are the young fellow who thinks he is going to write a book about me." >> robert caro sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a." ues. host: joining us from duke university is william darity. he is a public policy professor and we are talking about reparations and what role they might play in the 2020 elections. guest: thank you for having me. host: everybody has a definition of reparations. could you give us yours? reparations is a program

of compensation to individuals or communities that have been subjected to grievous injustices. from my perspective, reparations have three objectives. the first is acknowledgment of the injustices on the part of the perpetrators. redress, which is restitution for the effects of the injustices and third is closure, which is a mutual recognition on the part of the victimized community as well as the perpetrators that the debt has been paid. host: when it comes to the specifics, how do you calculate something like that? guest: it depends on the particular set of injustices one is concerned about. in the context of the united states, the experience of black americans as particular recipients of a rep --

reparations program, what you would have to do is calculate the full economic effects of the long-term consequences of slavery, of the jim crow period, legal segregation, as well as ongoing effects of racism that are manifest in the forms of mass incarceration, police killings of unarmed blacks as well as the racial wealth gap that is so large and persistent. united statesat history, particularly when it comes to reparations, who would qualify for what would have to be done to qualify? identify black descendents of folks who had been enslaved in the united states is the appropriate recipients of reparations and in work i have done in a number of

venues, i have argued that there should be two criteria for eligibility. the first is an individual needs to demonstrate that he or she has an ancestor who was enslaved in the unit states. -- in the united states. that individual needs to toablish that he or she, up 10 years prior to the onset of the reparations program, self identified as black or african-american or some equivalent category. host: this conversation or topic has gone on for many years with various people and administrations, including different presidents. why do you think it has never gained traction? tremendouse has been resistance in large measure because of the way in which we have crafted our understanding

of american history. a disproportionate amount of american history has been devoted to mythologizing what occurred during reconstruction, the civil war and mythologizing the case for the confederacy, leading to hero worship of individuals who actually were traders to the united states of itors to thera united states of america. there is a norm is just case for compensation -- there is an enormous just case for compensation. joiningofessor darity

us from duke university. if you want to join us, (202)-748-8000 for democrats, (202)-748-8001 for republicans and (202)-748-8002 for independents. this topic suddenly reemerged in the 2020 presidential campaign. we want to play comments from senator elizabeth warren on the topic and then get your response. [video clip] onamerica was founded principles of liberty and freedom and on the backs of slave labor. this is a stain on america. we are not going to change that until we address it head on, directly. make no mistake. it is not just the original founding. it is what happened generation after generation. the impact of discrimination

handed down from one to the next . today in america because of discrimination, we live in a world where the average white family has $100, the average black family has about five dollars. i believe it is time to start the national full-blown conversation about reparations in this country. [applause] support themeans i bill in the house to appoint a congressional panel, experts who study this and talk about different ways we may be able to do it and make a report back to congress so that we can as a nation do what is right and begin to heal. host: professor, what did you think about these comments being made in the first place?

guest: i think there are two dimensions of her statement which i view as courageous. the first dimension of her on thent is her emphasis magnitude of the wealth gap where she indicated with respect to net worth, the typical white family that has $100 relative to five dollars held by the typical black family. that is critical, a major indicator of the long-term and camilla to consequences of this historic -- and cumulative consequences of this historic path of discrimination. her focus on house resolution 40, the necessity of passing a bill that would create a commission that would have the responsibility of outlining the long-term history of racial injustice and designing a program of reparations.

prelude to that as a the reparations program that was inaugurated for japanese victims of mass incarceration in the united states during the course of world war ii, there was a commission formed. was called the commission on wartime relocation and japanese internment. that commission had the responsibility for sketching the families asjapanese well as designing an initial program of restitution. we need al fashion, similar commission to address the question of reparations for black americans. host: first call for you from dave on -- dave in los angeles. go ahead. caller: good morning. that this is a

subject that is way long overdue . with the senator approaching the topic the way she did, i agree with you, it was a noble thing to do. watch as this program progresses , where people will call in and here, i amgot second-generation and my people came from wherever and we did not have anything to do with slavery. then you also get the given-variety racists who , that slaverynes was actually a noble enterprise.

i think you have your finger on the pulse of the direction by which we must go. i am just saying, be aware of how it is that the various oppositions will try and muddy the water. host: go-ahead professor. already commented on the necessity of changing the way in which we view the american historical record. the other important observation the caller made is frequently, critics of reparations say they are such recent immigrants to the united states that they don't bear any personal responsibility for slavery. they may even have arrived so

recently that they have come after the jim crow period had ended. i have a couple responses to that type of perspective. if an individual migrates to a country, they migrate to its history and national obligations. the national obligation is what is in question here. it is not a matter of personal responsibility of -- or individual responsibility, it is a national obligation based on the historical experiences that the united states has undergone. i would also add that i presume that people who have chosen to migrate to the united states have chosen to do so based on the opportunity structure that product ofwhich is a the level of affluence that the united states as a whole has achieved and that level of

affluence was built on the backs of black american coerced labor that went on for upwards of three to four generations after the formation of the republic. host: maggie in florida -- maggie in new york, republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. is ok,lem with this slavery was a horrible thing and the entire country regrets it. what about the soldiers who died to free the slaves? to their families get reparations? -- do their families get reparations? guest: i don't know the answer to that. i invite the caller to craft a case, if she would so desire on

behalf of the individuals who fought to end slavery. i have been working on a case that is specific to the historical experience of black americans. degreeas a significant of participation in the union army after the emancipation proclamation took place, of black soldiers and a case can be made that the union would not have won the war without the participation of black troops and support from the black community that was based on the various outposts that the union army had throughout the united states. that blackue americans themselves contributed directly to their own liberation from slavery. as a consequence, we need to factor that into the reparations bill as well.

to do thehe caller research and do the estimates of what the damages might have been to nonblack participants in the union army as a consequence of the civil war. that is a separate case. ont: someone makes the case twitter saying do not forget about german-americans incarcerated on the east coast, irish americans who were indentured services -- indentured servants after the potato famine. guest: again, i invite these callers to design and develop their own case. one of the anchoring factors that distinguishes the black american experience from most of the others is that to some degree or some extent, the other communities constituted

descendents of people who voluntarily migrated to the united states. there is no question that the initial american sin of slavery was associated with forced migration to this part of the world and i think that that is the foundation for distinguishing between the black american experience and the experiences of other communities. host: let's hear from jerry in ohio. go ahead. jerry in ohio. go ahead. caller: hello? host: you are on. caller: i did not go through the screener. this is jim from michigan. host: go ahead. caller: i come from a unique situation, a very unique family. who foughtndfather and was wounded in the civil war. i am 83 years old. my brother and i are probably the only people who can directly

connect to the civil war within it -- with an ancestor. luck in your quest for reparations. personally i don't think it will i thought i was black for 75 years. we did dna and i am actually scotch irish yet i suffered all of the indignities of having to ride in the back of a bus, i wish i had known then. i would've carried my papers with me. but this was in the 50's. host: professor if you would like to respond. to reemphasizet that the criteria for eligibility that i mentioned earlier has nothing to do with dna tests or skin shade or appearance. if this individual has an ancestor who was enslaved in the

unit states and this individual black atidentified as some point in time, then they are perfectly eligible for reparations. if they suffered indignities associated with the way others perceive them, that would be consistent with the claim for reparations. i think it is interesting that this caller has a grandfather who fought in the civil war. i think that is not an entirely unique case. there is at least one individual that we know, my wife and i have worked on a book on reparations which is forthcoming and in the book, we talk about the case of the first black

faculty member at the university of north carolina, chapel hill. her father was a slave and she is still living, in her 90's but her father was born into slavery. the notion that it happened so very long ago is not altogether accurate. we are talking about the fifth generation of black americans from slavery on average but there are clearly exceptions. idea ofr this reparations program, where would the funding come from? any program of reparations that is established at the national legislative level, whether it is germany providing reparations for the victims of the nazi holocaust or the united states providing reparations for

japanese-americans, the payments are the responsibility -- or the responsibility for payments come from the government itself. it is a bill that goes to the treasury. there are ways in which this could be done that would minimize or eliminate any additional tax burden on the national population, but that is in the final chapter of our book and i dare not divulge that in advance without risking the wrath of my co-editor. host: bob in massachusetts. go ahead. caller: good morning. i have something i would like to run by you and i would like to know how you feel. c-span isnd that doing a show about the president s. i believe that lincoln was the worst president and the only reason i say that is because in our constitution, there is a line that says all men are

created equal. for some reason, the black people did not make that. that. when lincoln had the war to free the slaves, did he say, all you people canalboat? land, havevote, own the same rights as white people? that is what should have happened. host: ok. guest: i absolutely agree that is what should have happened. my understanding is approximately two days before he was assassinated, lincoln gave a speech where he said he was going to make sure black americans had the vote. at the time it would have been, black male americans because only men were eligible to vote at the point at the end of the civil war. he gave a speech saying he would be fully committed to giving

black folks the vote. john wilkes booth was in the audience. it was at that point booth made it definite to himself and compatriots he was going to kill the president. the second thing is, land was mentioned. it was definitely in progress, there definitely was a procedure underway to provide the formerly enslaved black americans with land. this is the vaunted 40 acres and a mule promise, which was never delivered ultimately. in the process of trying to provide the formerly enslaved folks with land, it began under lincoln's presidency with a special order issued by general georgiain savannah, lotre he was going to al

plots of land to the formerly and slaved. that allotment got underway. but it was reversed by president andrew johnson, lincoln's successor. i would argue it is andrew johnson who was the worst president in the history of the united states. jeff,north carolina, republican line. caller: hello. host: go ahead. reparations is another division attempt. know, everyt, you single person no matter what color they are can go back and blame somebody for something. it is time to stop teaching incessantly in our public school

systems about slavery. it is over a hundred what years old? you cannot keep charging people that have nothing to do with slavery for the guilt of being slaveowners. many whitefor us, people have suffered injustice. we just have to move on. host: thanks, caller. emphasizedi think i at the outset that i think the case for reparations is not predicated exclusively on slavery. it is critical that we take into calibrations the long-term effects of the jim indicatedd and i also there are ongoing damages that need to be considered and i

would highlight among these, again, mass incarceration, police killings of unarmed blacks and the immense magnitude of the racial wealth gap. it is not just a question of addressing the harms of slavery. as i have said a number of times, if people believe there are other communities or groups deserving of compensation, they need to make that case. this is a case pacific -- specific to native black americans. this is a case taking into account the long and cumulative trajectory of injustice imposed upon this community, starting with slavery, continuing through nearly a century of jim crow, as well as ongoing forms of racism still persistent to this day. personal a question of

responsibility. what distinguishes this case is the fact that slavery and jim crow were embedded explicitly into the legal structure in the u.s. and were enacted or acted upon on that basis. if there are other types of injustices that have occurred, we frequently have certain types of legal remedies for those. there was no legal remedy for being enslaved. there was no legal remedy for being subjected to segregation or apartheid in the u.s. because those were things written directly into the nation's laws. thank you for your time, >> coming up, present from