book "working." >> he went up the stairs into this modest -- he had torn out of the walls. he sat in the center of this black leather chair. if you look to the left of him, the robert moses bridge, causeway to fire island. there is robert moses sabine framed by his monuments. intimidating. charm ands wonderful he smiled. still at the height of his power. he said, so you are the young

fellow who thinks he is going to write a book about me. >> our first guest serves as the president of the american enterprise institute. author of the book love your enemies: how decent people can save america from the culture of contempt. arthur brooks, good morning. >> how are you? host: i'm fine. people the enemies? >> consider all sorts of folks their enemies. the problem we have in america today is increasingly we see people on the other side of the political aisle as our enemies. we are more polarized than we have and since the civil war. one in six americans have stopped talking to a family member or close friend since the 2016 election because of politics and 93% of us hate it. so clearly we are doing

something wrong. we are seeing the wrong people as our enemies. if we actually love the people and we in our midst treat people with warm heartedness instead of contempt we will find out they were not our enemies after all. host: what happens when you use the word love in these conversations? >> people say, finally. i'm a behavioral social scientist by training. i run one of the oldest think tanks in the world. i'm thinking how do i mix behavioral training with public policy work. i'm going to write about what i know the most about which is happiness and love. we were talking about socialism and capitalism for an hour just now. people trying to adjudicate the boundary between them. the boundary between capitalism and socialism is really artificial. when we talk about the wealth of nations, we forget that 17 years before he wrote the theory of

moral sentiments all of this stuff goes into the mist when we talk about what we really care about which is love and relationships and happiness and when we understand that we have to be our brother's keeper and a lot of these distinctions start to dissolve. to make the distinction that someone who is a socialist and a capitalist can exist and get along with each other despite their beliefs. >> of course. book foris a solutions people who actually want more love and happiness in their lives and who want to be more persuasive in their views. no matter if you are on the right or the left you will figure out how to persuade people more. we are locked down into corners right now. people on the right are only talking to people on the right. wants to hearleft what people on the right have to say and vice versa. if you think that you are right this book tells you how to be happier and more persuasive at the same time and most importantly how we can start to

rebuild country. this is not a question of better institutions. it's a question of the revolution of each one of our hearts remembering that we are responsible for starting the movement in our own lives. host: you use the phrase culture of contempt. what do you mean by that? >> people say that america is too angry today. there's too much anger. the cable news networks are hardly -- highly partisan. anger is not the problem. it is a hot emotion. i care what you think. the problem is when you mix it with discussed. it becomes a toxic compound. you take discussed and mix it with anger and it becomes contempt. of theviction worthlessness of the other person. that destroys marriages. it's the number one best way you can make a political enemy.

contempt is what we need to fight against in this country. host: our guest is with us for the hour if you want to talk to yourbout his book, love enemies. you can call us and let us know what you think. ,emocrats (202) 748-8000 republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. thatighlight an incident happened in new york with black lives matter. asked the question what if you think that another person is truly worthy of contempt and one of the points that i make is that you have to start separating contemptuous ideas from the people themselves. will never be able to come together. i gave an example of one of the most unexpected coming together as i've ever seen right here on the washington mall. the head of the black lives

matter of greater new york showed up at a trump rally. bikers for trump. really very strong trump supporters. he stepped into it ready to protest with his fist in the air. oddugh a series of circumstances he wound up on stage addressing the crowd and a pretty strange thing happened. i think you've got tape of this. host: here is a little bit with half newsom at that rally. >> we want our god-given right to freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. you are so right. all lives matter, right? lost itlack life is gets no justice. that's why we say black lives

matter. if we really want to make america great, we do it together. >> it restored my face and some of those -- my faith in some of those people. sides that never listen to each other actually made progress today. did i expect to go on that stage? no. stand here with my fist in the air at a very militant way and exchange some insult. somenk we really made substantial steps.

i hope they understand that one of the leaders of the black lives matter movement is a proud american and a christian who cares deeply about this country and the people in it whether they are documented or not. i want them to understand that we are educated. we come from a place of love. we really are here to help this country move toward a better place. not to destroy it. a man who controls a 4000 member moshe shook my hand and said i always knew i identified with to but today solidified it asked me to take a picture with his son. i went from being enemy to being someone they want to take pictures with their children. that's the power of

communication. to chant and do a demonstration but we didn't have to. we just spoke. it worked. >> it was kind of an accident. what he did was he accepted the opportunity to talk to the other side. what the guy who was running he saidnt, tommy gun, i'm going to give you my stage for a couple of minutes because america is all about free speech. it was serendipity. talked about the deepest moral convictions of the people in the crowd. he didn't share their politics but he said, i'm an american. i love this country. when something is not right you've got to fix it. within two minutes he had the crowd cheering for him. because he was talking about how much he loves the united states

of america. i have gotten to know him. he's a great guy. we haveimportant things values in common and that's a beautiful thing. when people go to the values of instead of simply quarreling about the policy differences they can almost always find tremendous common ground. people are not their political ideas. what they want us to do is see each other as democrat and republican, left or right. as our differences as opposed to the similarities that we have. host: how do you sway the other side without giving up your own? >> you will never persuade another person by trying to insult them into agreement. it has never happened in human history. the way we talk to each other

with contempt is the most impractical thing i've ever seen. you can virtue signal to your own side. this has really changed my life. i had a very interesting experience. do 100 75 speeches a year and i was speaking at a conservative activist rally and i said in the middle of my top because i'm politically on the center-right and i said all of the things i'm going to tell you you are going to agree with what i want you to remember if you agree with me then you should be in the business of persuading your neighbors. their progresses. they are not stupid and they are not evil. they are simply americans who disagree with you and you need to persuade them. no applause. a minute later the applause because -- i grew up in

seattle, washington. sheep politically of my family and my community and i don't like it when somebody talks that way about my family. everybody watching should ask themselves the question. do you love somebody with whom you disagree politically? i'm going to say 100% yes and if that's the case then we need to our ownanding up to side on behalf of people on the other side. that's the mark of moral courage. host: arthur brooks. our first call comes from tom in connecticut. you are on with our guest. go ahead. caller: my name is tom. i wanted to see what you thought about fox news in particular but also ms nbc. sofriends growing up are

into fox news. i'll think the clintons would have lost if fox news wasn't here and i don't know how we get news from commentary. they think hannity is news just like shepard smith is news. tell me your thoughts on fox news and msnbc. get that question a lot about the news networks that have a lot of partisan commentary. if you watch the special report on fox news or the actual news shows on msnbc you are getting high-quality news sources. expect thet political commentators who set -- we haveup as such become very unsophisticated in our viewing habits. what i recommend to all people is that they get diverse sources if they want to look at something that scratches their own itch.

they should look at something on the other side. if you find that you are unhappy because of the way that you are being fired up, you are unsatisfied, you don't like what's happening in the country, take a pundit fast. don't read your favorite columnists who says the other side is stupid and evil. turn off the prime time news networks just for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. it's lent. anybody who observes lent, let's make a deal. let's watch a little bit less political commentary. host: you say anonymity on the internet is a net that and discouragedtively as a matter of basic corporate responsibility and ultimately self-preservation. is thelk about why it contempt has been able to seep

into the culture and one of the big reasons for that is the anonymity that comes from sidling our newsfeeds through social media and our ability to be anonymous on the internet. anonymity is a really bad thing. traffic is terrible in the washington area. the best way we could improve traffic is make them put their name and house of worship on a sticker on the back of their car. if we refuse to be anonymous and our social media behavior and we refuse to silo ourselves and only listen to people on our own side and all of us refuse to interact under any circumstances with someone dehumanizing themselves by being anonymous. the narrow science and the social science. you will be a happier person if you do that and that's one of the things we all want. host: oakland, new york.

caller: i love the idea the author presents but i think it's a fallacious in actual crack this. that what people are looking for privileges and benefits. they are calculating how does whatever social political economic system actually benefit and what privileges do i derive from that to the average white person throughout the history of this country is not racist. but they benefit from a racist system so am i going to give up those privileges and benefits? the average rich person is not a monster but they benefit from a tax cut am i going to sit there and say i don't need more money, i'm already a billionaire? am i going to give up those privileges and benefits? the average man, i benefit from a sexist system.

am i going to give up the benefits that i derive as a man whenever i start talking, people listen? host: ok. we will let our guest respond. becausereciate that people do act according to their own benefits and people are selfish. what i present in the book is evidence that people are inmarily motivated by love their lives and for each other which can include love for people they don't know. problem is that we have a system in which we treat each other with so much contempt that we don't actually find opportunities. we have isolated ourselves ideologically and we don't see opportunities to show love for people on the other side. the --re public upon public policy benefits that we accrue to ourselves. when i'm looking at data as a

social scientist when people have the opportunity to set up public laws and sees that benefit others at the margins of society they see themselves and they are willing to do that to one of the great things about his country that makes us different from any other country that i've seen is that we will fight for the people at the periphery of society if we have real ways to do it with respect to dignity and opportunity. one of the things everyone agrees with me on is what we should radically equal in human dignity and fight for limitless human potential. if we have crony capitalism, systems and wish it's just my benefits versus your benefits, me against you, populism that says somebody's got your stuff and i'm going to get it by fighting those people and we are lock down our to

corners and get the system that you're talking about. let's work together so we can love each other more. host: diane in arkansas. maybe you can in-line me a little bit. why do progressives or democrats get away from getting in to the faith of conservatives in -- face of conservatives in restaurants you go when was the ever or last time you sunday conservative get in the face around somebody at a restaurant? have do the democrats get away with blaming us saying republicans and conservatives are the mean when did we have big parades where we said i'm a nasty girl or we wore our va ginas on our heads?

how do they get away with it? harangue that will public figures in restaurants say, you're not welcome here, we have to make you unwelcome everywhere. that's awful. that's just the worst. people who are doing that are having their anger ginned up by a minority of people who want to become richer and more powerful and more famous i recommend that everybody stand up to the man and say i refused to be new -- used because i don't want to hate my neighbor. is there an asymmetry? i don't know. seen all sorts of cases where liberal activist are acting on civilly toward ordinary conservative people but i have seen the reverse as well to i have especially seen the reverse as the way people behave toward each other online and in

the media. in today's america that's just as bad. not saying both sides. i don't know what the proportion is. i hate it on both sides because i want to love my neighbor. host: stand up to the man. he mentioned it's one of the five rules to counter the culture of contempt. escape the bubble. disagree better, not less and then disconnect. >> one of the key things we are really getting bad at his we have so much fear about getting out of our own bubble. i grew up in a neighborhood that had a lot of crabs or republicans. bubble has become a real ideologically now. people are so afraid to get outside their bubble they are denying themselves a real source of richness in their lives.

gender diversity in the workplace, racial diversity has really helped this country a lot. we are happier, living better lives, being more productive. and yet we are more and more fearful of ideological diversity. i'm about to move from aei to hartford and one of the many problems as a complete lack of ideological diversity. it's not preparing people for a better happier life where they can get along in a diverse society so i really recommend we get outside of our own bubble. he said, how do we reestablish the guardrails of a decent society? what good does it to sit 3 -- does it do to disagree with a racist orders

enough of without the shame? is a really great guy and he wrote that in direct criticism of my book and i respect that you the way that i and two that is we have to separate the people from their ideas. the idea in the united states that pedro is his political views is insane. that's a whole person. to reduce you to a cardboard cutout about someone who believes x about capitalism and why about socialism reduces you as a person. furthermore i'm unable at that point, i can't persuade you of anything and that is the reason we are locked down in this country. stagnationeads to and mediocrity. my institution is based on the model that competition of ideas

is fundamental to a free society. it brings excellence. it's what we are all about. if we basically say i'm not going to compete, i'm going to blow you up and i'm going to say you are a deviant person 0% chance i'm going to be able to convince you of anything. let's go hammer and tongs on the difference of ideas but remember that people are more than their ideas. is also anuest accomplished musician. >> i was a french horn player. when i was 19 i dropped out of college. dropped out, kicked out. splitting hairs. i went on the road all the way through my 20's. i played chamber music and wound up in the barcelona symphony. i finished my bachelors degree

at a place called thomas edison state university which is an alternative university learning environment. byt of my classes were correspondence. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say shut out from syracuse. very liberala togressive area in africa the very conservative not far from mar-a-lago. i have to say the people i work with and my neighbors are not at all what the media portrays. where peoplences for the most part if you talk to them face-to-face are genuine and nice.

you can relate to people on many different levels. just wanted to say that. >> thank you. i think most people watching us can relate to that. this is the key thing that the media and politics and academia are doing. they are reducing us to two-dimensional figures of ideology. i talk about how identities are different than stories. people.in a us to other identities are the things that the outrage industrial complex in this country are trying to reduce us to. are this. you are your demographics which is destiny. you are your race, your gender, your politics. but it's hardly problematic if we want to have a happy life.

we have to start a personal revolution from within. we need to look to ourselves and change our own hearts and in so doing we will start the change in our country that we want to see. we will guaranteed be happier people. we will be able to persuade other people because we actually connect to them as people. host: this just came in. mr. lovey-dovey aei knows about predatory capitalism. progressiveom a background. i didn't have some big road to damascus political experience. 2 billion ofthat my brothers and sisters have been pulled out of poverty since i was a child. the world is better, not worse than it was and i recognize that it came from five things. i had no recollection toward

conservatism or anything. the reasons this country has been a beacon of hope to the is because in the united createde showed and it globalization of ideas, free trade, property rights and rule of law and the culture of entrepreneurship and it was primarily of great benefit to the poorest people in the world i have a new movie coming out called the pursuit late with my colleagues at the american enterprise institute and people all over the world and we start and a slum in india talking about what you want and how their lives have gotten so much better. it's very important for me to remember that the reason i came into the free and tries world was because poverty was something i cared about the most. i believe morals have to come before markets.

host: they have shaped an opinion of you just in one tweet. >> that reduces me in a few characters to the one-dimensional figure. capitalism is predatory. outragehat the industrial complex wants you to believe. it's about any of you who are watching on the political left. people will reduce you to base characteristics. you know it's not true so let's love each other and fight against it together. host: woodbridge, virginia. we will hear from tom. c-span is a national treasure. i think without c-span america would be a really dark place. i want to say i love exactly what you're doing sir. buy your book today. i started a nonprofit about a year ago to look at what i believe was the media and

to divideincentives us. i'm looking at it from the and deceit.f lies in other words deliberately spreading misinformation on both of the extremes, the left and the right extreme of the narratives on any given issue. and policing. issues about the 2016 elections, gun violence and modern islam. i think that you are looking at it in the way that i hadn't even considered and that is at sort of the micro level. at the individual level how can better understand our interpersonal relationships and -- separateut aside the people from the issue. i think it's brilliant. i'm going to incorporate it into my research because i do think

that this is the solution as a country. >> thank you, tom. you really touched on something really important. epiphanic for me as a scholar. i have written about institutions my whole life. politics, government, policy, the media, big institutions. as i was looking at this problem of contempt which is just tearing us apart i realized that all the great social movements which take on scourges like this don't start with institutions. they start with an interior revolution. institutions are the supply side. we are the demand side. the problem with the democratic capitalist country is that leaders are not leaders. there are followers. politicians see a parade going down the street.

things you to change have to change the parade and that starts within. i was looking at how dr. martin luther king created a social movement around civil rights. we see how the department of justice was changing things in the south. what really was important in that movement is how dr. martin luther king inspired americans to live up to their own values and in so doing what he promised was greater justice. he promised more love and he promised greater happiness. not giving up anything. he was saying you are going to be happier if you do this and he was right. i said, i've been doing my work wrong. sidetched from the supply to the demand side which is working on my own heart. i forgot the neuroscience in this book that shows you step i --p how you can declare were declare war on your own worst impulses and get happier as a result. host: you talk about a concept

called: sieve leadership. -- coercive leadership. it is about leaders in general. the worst kind of leadership is color sieve leadership. -- coercive leadership. says my way or the highway. the other side is stupid and evil. i'm going to break the conference table. i will be your walking middle finger. when you get an environment where people feel like someone else's got their stuff and they feel like a lack of dignity and maybe even despair coercive leaders on the left and right are going to be really popular. each one of us can be an authoritative leader that says follow me because this is a better vision and it's a vision for written on your heart. the country that you want and the person you want to be.

somebody that your mother would be proud of. in doing just in your family or in your workplace we can go to bed each night saying maybe i wasn't super effective today but i did what i'm supposed to be doing. host: what about the leader who tries to make everybody happy? >> that's impossible because that is a conciliatory person who agrees all the time and i don't think we should agree. i'm against agreement. i'm for disagreement. that's the competition of ideas which is so fundamental which is -- to making america a great society. we need to disagree not less, we need to disagree better. that goes to how you feel about the person does write his or their -- his or her thoughts. >> separating the heart of the person from his or her noxious way of thinking because you can when i meety

someone with whom i really disagree ideologically the first theg i do is listen to what person actually wants and the moral concerns, the deep root of what they care about and try to state that act. saying thatu are you believe this country does not treat people with equal dignity? i believe that. i want to fight for radical equality of human dignity, too. we just have different ways of i canabout that and maybe persuade you that i've got a couple of ideas that are kind of cool. maybe work well. that's the basis not of productivehat of disagreement about policy ideas that can lead to greater excellence. host: we will hear from janice. hello. brooks, i like your title. i'm a person trying to be a good christian. love your enemies is a great title. >> thank you. object to the

so-called christians of a certain persuasion who don't recognize the devil. didn't love the devil. we christians -- and he told the devil to get away from him. we christians need to recognize the great liar and turned from him toward jesus of nazareth. host: thanks caller. you pointciate that out a really important theme that i bring in the book which is that if you believe your heart that something really needs to change about somebody onlys viewpoint, there is one way that you are going to actually get through to that person and that's with love. if you come in with a and say you are a deviant you will not be able to change that person. you will miss the opportunity to share your values. if your values are that , you must approach

another person with love. there is no other way. host: from michigan, let's hear thanks c-spanr: for your 40 years and i've been with you for 38 of them. mr. brooks, i'm 100 percent behind most of everything you've said. i became a little bothered however when you compared the words on a computer screen with the actual physical violence on the progressive and liberal side. now, if you look into centuries of mean ugly words that were printed in newspapers from the beginning of time, this didn't cause is kind of hatred and violence for such extended window of time. time.iod of andi could think was sticks

stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. thank you. thank you. i want to second what she said, thanks to c-span. 40 years is amazing. c-span came around when i was a teenager. and you know what that makes me? old. it's a really great service and we kind of take it for granted but i don't think we should. this is kind of an amazing service. obviously i believe that physical violence is worse than words, that dangerous ideas make with whichor ideas you really disagree make you unsafe. that's a problem because it makes it impossible for us to be exposed to different ideas. ideas can lead to now is notd have two the only time in american history where that has happened. at ay divided words over

large part of the 19th century that led to so much violence. the claim that we have that america is polarized the way of was-- the 19th century really kind of a disaster for the way that people talk to each other and it did lead to violence and i'm trying to avoid fromchain of events to go the cold war standoff state where conservatives can only talk to conservatives and liberals can only attack the conservatives verbally to go to the hot more -- that would be a .atastrophe for this country we need a social movement where we as individuals demand a better life. host: do you think the president practices this philosophy of yours? >> i think he does not. i think most of the populist politicians do not as well. i would like it if he did.

i'm not going to fool myself into thinking populist politicians are going to be responding to market signals. the president of the united states won an election. those are market results. i'm trying to change the parade in this country. i can say the same things about people who are competing on -- to be leaders on the left as well. we are really talking about how people on the other side are stupid and evil and really deviant and it's the same kind is --blem so what i want i would love to change the president and all of the other but icians and the media really want to change the hearts of individuals who say i want to be happier and i want more love. host: we are talking about -- you are also a good friend of the dalai lama.

>> this is a beautiful friendship. past six and a halffor the years i have been working with his holiness the dalai lama. i got an audience with him. i said i've run in institution about public policy and we talk a lot about capitalism. would you come to washington, d.c. so i can interview you in public about the moral cases involving capitalism and socialism and he said yes. we have written together just last week. with the contempt with which we are all inevitably treated is an ourrtunity for us to change own hearts and be happier as people. that relationship has been really important. the dalai lama has taught me so much. treateduld i do when with contempt. he said, show worm heartedness.

what happens if i don't feel warmhearted? >> -- do it anyway. you will start to feel it anyway. that is a very robust finding in social psychology. stuff -- thatof .omes from tibetan buddhism there's a lot of stuff in this book where you can use the lessons i have learned from the dalai lama to improve your life. am glad you wrote that book. facebook last year, try the kind to those you disagree with and i got so many positive responses but of force a week later many of them was calling the opposition party evil and stupid.

this is something i have lived with my entire adult life. from myifelong democrat twin brother lifelong republican and we agree much more than we ever disagree. so keep up the good work and i think you've got a large stone and a long hill to push it up. is sustainability an issue as far as keeping this philosophy? >> i'm so lucky and that task of pushing the stone of the hill, its light. what a joy. i get to spend the rest of my life talking about how we can love each other more and be happier to boot and we can even convince each other. him and his twin brother, they agree more than they disagree and i bet they have convinced each other of things. greater privilege than to talk about how people can live that are happier lives

of greater dignity. that whenis out a lot somebody treats stand with contempt on his facebook page he says love other people and by the fourth comment down its objectionable, hateful and may be racist. this happens it is there are people trying to gin up anger and hatred. people will treat him with contempt and me and you. that's a huge opportunity. i have learned where when somebody treats you with contempt and you and your with warmhearted that's when you have an opening to change the other person's heart as well. we should be looking at that as well. i have a lot of respect for missionaries because they face a lot of resistance. you don't need to try and convert people who are already converted. with -- where

people aren't already converted to people treat missionaries with contempt but that is an opportunity to have people think i abused that person and she treated me with warmth and kindness and respect and even love. that is such a big opportunity in our lives to be happier and better. host: you dedicate the book to the memory of father arnie peninsula. ran the catholic information center in washington, d.c. for a long time. he was very helpful to me in my own spiritual development. he died in july 2017 and i miss him and so do a lot of people in d.c. caller: good morning. not quite as optimistic as the caller from kentucky and the reason being is that form hardness didn't work quite so well for martin luther king. also, the parade is fun.

the people leaving the parade have always been the problem. the roman empire did not collapse because of the people. it collapsed because of the greed and corruption at the top. through world history we have people who have been in control very few and people wanting some of that control and unfortunately when the people wanted it get it they act exactly the same way. that's human behavior. otherwise, iow being a retired police officer and army veteran always got along fine with people if you talk to them with some secret didn't mean people aren't going to have their biases. as long as they didn't try to hurt me i didn't care. concerned you're horatio alger books is a little late because we have reached such a sophisticated level of attachment from people it's really going to be a hard sell and by the way i'm a lifelong catholic so i have the same

admiration for the sisters and the fathers that you do. i'm not that happy with what butened at the top nevertheless that's my philosophy so thank you. i am a lotiate it to more optimistic and hopeful than you are. service as a your police officer. send me an email. i will send you a signed copy of the book on me. with love and respect i can persuade you that all is not lost. that in point of fact in america we can actually introduce our leaders. right now we are being victimized and will lead by this outrage industrial complex and martin luther king was assassinated, i know it. he had only 33% public support for the eye -- his ideas. he didn't lose in the end.

americans agree with him. he is venerated. does that mean he got to enjoy that level of adulation and respect earned his lifetime? no but that's not why he did it. he loved his country and he loved his fellow man and he loved god. religion in the united states is getting able to think long-term and i hope i can do that with my life and i hope we all can. host: this is dennis from texas. caller: i'm a 21 year veteran. i have two comments today. my main comment today is i think these people running for president in this congress keep promising americans stuff that we can't afford like the free college. that's never going to work and it's just going to disappoint

people. concern i'm hearing now is about respirations for the slaves. my generation's american indian. we come from reservations. eighth been killed. they've been moved. they live in the most desolate places that they never complained. what about the asians that came over and built the railroads. what about japanese in internment camps. we are opening a big can of worms and i think this is going to separate america more than anything we have talked about in the last five years. thank you for your time this morning. >> there's a lot to unpack and i do talk an awful lot about policies and ideas and pronouncements from public book about how identity can divide us. i really recommend that you take a look at that and see what you think. there's one part of your

question that i want to address in particular and that's not free college for all but the mentality that says there should be free college for all because everybody should go to college. one of the great things that bothers me most in the states is the classism and the elitists and in this country that says if you don't have a college education you are somehow less than other people. that is insane. that is actually an american. there's 7 million unfilled jobs in america today largely skilled and semiskilled professions. people are coming out of high school forced into college against their will. 32% finish in six years and the rest have shattered dreams and insufficient gills. we need a country that is equal dignity of all people. not just people who go to college. that's one of the main barriers in this country is socioeconomic status. i talk about that a lot this group of people is not as smart,

sophisticated. that's the kind of elitism that can tear a country apart. i really rail against that a lot and i reject it. host: virginia is next. this is constant. caller: i love your conversation. what you are really saying is the one commandment. love your neighbor as yourself. pointmeone injected the of the devil. well the devil is not really a person. the devil is an idea. the devil is the cardinal mind versus the spiritual mind. put on the mind of christ and love conquers all. that's my comment this morning. thank you for that. i use the title love your enemies precisely because everybody knows who is religious at least that it's good to love god and everybody learned the golden rule to love your neighbor as yourself. a lot of people have a hard time remembering who is your neighbor. so jesus goes into specifics.

he says love your enemies. do good to those who harm you. this is the same in every major religious tradition. i asked the dalai lama to explain it to me. what does it mean? he said when love your enemies you are not destroying anything about the enemy. you are destroying the illusion that the person was your enemy in the first place. it was really very profound. i watched a sermon by martin luther king about this passage and he says exactly the same thing. like your't say enemies. he didn't say agree with your enemies. he said love your enemies because in so doing you see that person as a whole person. we have to see each other as home people. -- whole people. a lot of people are watching us of no religion. it doesn't matter produces something we all want.

we want to persuade each other in good faith. we want to fix the country. we want better leaders and we want to be happier people. host: did you have a time when you fail that this idea? >> many times. when i talk about the culture of contempt i am guilty. it's not that i've had a screaming talk show on television but i saw a clip of myself on television debating somebody about about capitalism and i thought that their argument was really week and i rolled my eyes. is the world's predictor of marital reconciliation and the biggest predictor of divorce is by contempt and the biggest displayer of contempt is eye rolling. i saw myself do it and that's the way to get a permanent enemy. proof of itphysical and one of the things i say in this book is when you find you have treated him but he with

contempt, make amends. if you are a contempt addict. which many of us are. it stimulates dopamine. if you are scratching that it's over and over again and you recognize that it's counterproductive one of the key ways you do it is -- an alcoholics anonymous there's a step make amends. we need to make amends to each other. one of the things i've done over the course of this book tour is i say i'm sorry for the times i've treated other people with relativelyd as a public figure i'm committing myself to not doing it anymore. host: ohio. this is donna for our guest arthur brooks. caller: i have a college degree but i now live in a senior with people who have a very different environment than me. who, some did not finish high school.

at any rate, there is one lady i knew who spoke profanity every third word in and i was still friends with her. however another person came home from the grocery store who was from the same projects and she didn't speak any profanity and i said if you are from the same area and she said yes and i said that you don't talk anything like so and so and she had well we are all individuals. so i learned to listen and to understand not to be so driven by stereotypes. quick thank you for your call. in a lot of places, i hang out with a lot of musicians because i use to be one and sometimes you have to filter out the cuss words to get the underlying rich. if youhen do you know know if you're going to be successful in this idea? >> it's a good question. this is a long project.

of books andot people and public figures working from day to day in their culture and their neighborhoods and communities and families to make this come about. i've been doing a lot of media about this book. the book is actually doing well and in arket capitalist economy that's one way to gauge things. you don't know. you write a book called love your enemy, is it going to fall flat to it's getting a little bounce. i'm talking to journalists and interviewers left right and center and everybody is going, i do want this. they are skeptical. it?we do i say read the book. it's not a very long book. if you get through the book you'll be able to do it and now people are starting to finish the book and put it into this.

i'm going to be talking about leadership that actually reflects these principles. host: why the decision to leave aei? >> i made a series of commitments. these are my intellectual heroes. the commitments was to build the institution of financially and intellectually and do physical building. forave a building all paid by the grace of our supporters. notast commitment was to stay more than 10 years. when you stay it's not good for the institution am not good for the leader. i published on this as a scholar at syracuse. than 10ld not stay more years. when you publish something, you are kind of lashed to the mast.

we have a great guy, robert door -- dorr. he ran our poverty programs at aei for the past five years spectacularly. that represents how a free enterprise, and american enterprise oriented think tank, scholar,ing a poverty someone committed to the margins of society. that represents the value of the institution. i think aei's best years are ahead. host: ♪ c-span's washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up sunday morning, a senior fellow discusses his new report on a staffing trends in congressional committees. bloomberg supreme court reporter greg storch talks about the proposal to expand the number of justices.

and, a discussion on the 30th anniversary of the extra about these disaster -- exxon valdez disaster. live at 7:00 eastern sunday morning. join the discussion. afterwords, an historian talks about his book "the case for trump," which looks of the campaign, the election and the presidency of donald trump. he is issued by former virginia republican congressman dave bratt. >> the world is in a conundrum. they anticipated their demography by about 50 years, got ahead of it. they had the demography they want right now, they are not quite sure how to make people vote monolithically according to their skin color rather than the content of their character. i think they're in a dilemma. donald trump, being

crafty, is going around the back detroit, youou in in new york, you guys in bakersfield and san jose, i will give you better jobs in a way did,.ever . you don't have to tell anybody or voting for me just go in and vote. there are so leveraged, they can afford to be hemorrhaging. >> watch afterwords sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on book tv, on c-span2. next, part of a forum on the impact of pro-israel groups on the u.s. policy. the washington report on middle east affairs and the institute for research. middle eastern policy close to the event.