intuit and h&r block on the i.r.s. and we will take your calls, so you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. washington journal is next. ♪ president trump speaks to the republican jewish coalition today in las vegas. we will bring you that event tonight at 9:30 eastern time. tim ryan of ohio makes his official white house announcement today. we will have that live at 2:00 p.m. eastern. the house takes up the democratic version of a new federal budget. all of this comes with the backdrop of what's being called a very solid u.s. jobs report that came out yesterday. the question for you this saturday morning, how are you doing with pay and benefits? here's how to take part in the conversation.

if you are recently employed, call 202-748-8000. if you are recently unemployed, 202-748-8001. if you are out there looking for a new job, 202-748-8002. 3.eryone else, 202-748-800 if not by phone, you can weigh in on social media. you can post a comment at facebook.com/c-span. here's one of the many reports this saturday morning on the jobs report that came out yesterday. at. payrolls top estimates 196,000 new jobs. is aniter of that piece economy reporter for bloomberg. she joins us by phone. good morning. guest: good morning. host: tell us about this topline figure. tell us what it all means. largely showedrt

that we are on even footing in the labor market. it was a really strong bounce back. out, wehe report came had this february figure of 20,000. this was a complete shock to the market. i heard people calling it everything from an anomaly to a surprise. if we get another week number, this will signal something really bad is happening in the labor market -- another weak number. if we get a strong number, that's great. we got that strong number, at a really00 jobs strong pace. it signals that the market is doing well, the market is still tight, employers are still looking, demand for labor is still really high.

there's so many global headwinds happening right now if you think of the trade war and the trade talks that are ongoing, you can be a bit more optimistic now. there is this overhang for employers, the tax cut going into 2019 that will lower economic growth. you have a lot of things going on. the things holding us up right now, the consumer and the labor market. economists are looking for something closer to 170,000. on a whole, it shows the labor market is looking good. the one area -- there's a couple areas of concern, one of them being that the wage growth has slowed down. going into this report, we saw 3.2%.hing weaker -- w

the overall sentiment seems to be it is still above 3%, still in that range we see when the economy gets hot, still around the level we were at in the last economic boom cycle. it still means it's putting money into consumer's pockets. i would be interested to hear from people calling and if they are seeing that money and have that experience. maybe someone calling and can explain what happened in february. we could see a dip in retail sales as well in december. host: what are the hottest sectors in the economy from this jobs report? what are the particular areas of concern? guest: we saw gains and a lot of sectors. in health care, professional technical services, computer

jobs did really well. food services are doing ok. some of the areas of concern, retail, construction and manufacturing. construction could have had some weather effects. march, we saw some really cold weather at the start of the month. that tends to weigh heavily on construction. formay have not been called jobs for couple of days. there was an employment drain that period. that happens in montana, they had record cold weather, parts of the northwest had that in the early months. as for manufacturing, this is something we were keeping a close eye on. we had a lot of completing signs -- conflicting signs.

we had the adp report and the showingfacturing survey manufacturing was doing well. the interest for jobs had the biggest gain in over a year. the adp report was showing the opposite, we had weakening in the sector. march showedrt for the manufacturing sector weakened. for some reason, factories this month had working declines. it's been weakening for five months. the last time that happened was in 2008. since the biggest drop 2016. this does not paint a very good picture. economists are still trying to figure out what's going on. it could be the trade war

weighing heavy on investment or inventory buildup. before all the trade tariffs came into effect, we had companies going out and buying from china and other countries, building up their warehouses. now, they are trying to sell it all off and they will wait to until that product is gone so they have money to invest. questions about manufacturing and factories. that could be a challenge for trump going into 2020. that is the one sector we had some cracks showing. monthmoving forward next and the months beyond, what are you looking out for? what are you most focusing on now? guest: the question now for economists is, first of all, the

wage picture. de-escalation, that really shows that there is a decline, inflation is not anywhere to be seen, the other side of the picture of the fed, what they are looking for. they are holding for the year because they don't see inflation going anywhere. as for the actual payroll figure, so far, we are looking 170,000 and between 190,000. we are still not out of the woods yet. jobsially because of the -- the government shut down. that wreaked havoc in the data. may will be the first month when it's completely clean.

you can't make excuses for the data anymore. may is the second quarter. we will start to see a cleaner print and hopefully a stronger print. lower,uarter tends to be we have the effect of the shutdown entering the second quarter. we should see an even stronger number. thanks a lot for your time and insight this morning. guest: thank you so much. host: your call is in just a moment. president trump had to say. [video clip] >> the economic numbers just came out. they are very, very good. our country is doing very well economically. the country is doing really, really well. we have a lot of exciting things going on. a lot of companies will be

announcing shortly they are moving back into the united states. they are all coming back. they want to be where the action is. host: president trump headed out west yesterday, talking about the new jobs report. tom perez, the chair of the democratic national committee, had this response to the report, focusing on the manufacturing piece. threatstrump's reckless to impose penalties on mexico risk destabilizing the economy and costing workers even more manufacturing jobs. that is tom perez, the head of the dnc. steve in charleston, south carolina. tell us about your job

situation. caller: it is good here in south carolina. i am retired and reemployed. if you don't -- if you want a job in south carolina, you can get one. i will leave politics out of this and give you simple truths. bigcannot punish companies, corporations and expect them to stay here. -- iave to find a way don't care about the rich and all that. do you really care how much your boss makes as long as you get a good paycheck? i don't think so. i don't care. mercedes, the biggest bmw plant in the world. i'm a logistics analyst.

we have google here. city --ay, new york they get mad with corporate america, but when you offer incentives to a company to come to your locale, all that money comes back to you. they are paying sales taxes. it all comes back. it's working here. host: thank you for calling. steve painting a positive picture in south carolina. we have chicago on the line now. david is calling on the line for unemployed. caller: i'm a tech worker, very experienced. have network for over a year and a half. we have over 23,000 foreign workers in the seventh congressional district.

silicon valley in california, 71% of the tech workers are foreign-born. we have egregious displacement. president trump has never once met directly with american tech workers to explain the dysfunctional, broken tech labor market. we don't control our hiring supply chain. indiacalls from advertising jobs there. crisis for american tech and stem workers. we have to get a handle on the hiring supply chain and passed laws that make it illegal for companies to bypass and displays americans, especially in the higher end tech and stem labor market. we have to get a handle on this. the jobs are out there. i do see improvement.

we have to get rid of the hr commissar. professor peter cappelli at wharton has discussed this problem in terms of the hiring supply chain, the hr commissar mentality. we have to bring back the can-do spirit. host: thank you. tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to report -- i'm retired, but my husband is still working. he's made more money in the past two years while working at the same construction job and at the same company for 12 years. he'se past two years, gotten the first bonus that he's ever gotten in his life. the year before last and last year, too. that was unheard of for him.

host: what kind of work? caller: he works construction. the area in nashville is just booming. there is jobs, buildings going up everywhere. there is more work than they can get workers to do. his company has a hard time getting workers to do the job. he works for a concrete company. they are constantly building all these buildings and they need more workers. send people towards nashville. host: rick, we have some contrasting stories this morning. rick is in pennsylvania. what can you tell us about your job situation? i live in rural pennsylvania. the job situation here compared to 10 years ago is absolutely

great. the only problem is, you can't find workers. nobody wants to work a 12 hour shift. we have manufacturing booming now. do i have to work weekends? yes. that doesn't sound good for me. do i have to do heavy lifting? that doesn't sound like something for me. jobs, and we can't find the workers. host: what is the best way to find those workers? caller: i think education is a big part of it. instill a work ethic. young kids have no work ethic. you will hire 10 people, you might get one. it sounds like for eight years, the government paid people not to work. we can get this program and that program, we can get food stamps.

that's what we see here in rural pennsylvania. on twitteris writing -- writes on facebook -- cohen writes -- -- writes on facebook this headline says "pressuring fed, president urges more stimulus." the president called on the federal reserve to cut interest rates and take added steps to stimulate economic growth.

here's more of what he had to say yesterday about the fed. [video clip] >> i personally think the fed should drop rates. they really let us down. there is no inflation. in terms of quantitative tightening, it should be quantitative easing. very little if any inflation. i think they should drop rates and get rid of quantitative tightening. you would see a rocketship. despite that, we are doing very well. int: we invite you to call to respond to what the president just said. the topic at hand, your job situation, what is being called a pretty solid job support for the month of march. if you are not working, tell us what you might be doing about it. we have lines for recently employed and recently unemployed, folks looking for a

new job and everything else. whites, the unemployment rate is 3.4%. for hispanics, 4.7%. galveston, texas on the line now. kevin looking for a job. caller: yes, sir. host: what kind of work have you done in the past and what are you looking for now? caller: i build houses. at ila for quite some time, a shipping firm. it notet go because of picking up as well. i'm a construction worker. i've done just about everything there is. iout the mexican border, think they ought to build the and makehe other side

it a double rotate. that way, it would solve everything. everybody ought to have a chance, but some of them out there don't want that chance. they want to take advantage of the american people. host: david in louisiana and out. -- in louisiana now. caller: i'm currently employed. i work in utilities, the construction side. i've noticed over the years, a lot of times, we will get new recruits and we try to train them and there's always comets about work ethic. -- comments about work ethic. there aren't many technical paths to train these guys. bar they have to meet to make it through the day is really high.

industry is having a hard time getting guys in there. at the same time, they are reeling these new hires too hard for training them in the first place, running off new kids. host: what role does government have at this point? caller: on the government side, i don't know. a lot of that is misdirection. is industry-specific and a lot of fields -- in a lot of fields. they sort of either own. that sheet their own -- they own.of feet thei eat their scientist. a retired

i'm also doing some work on the side, i teach science and engineering -- i've learned a lot about this. trump had nothing to do with this. what happened is that barack obama saved the decline of this nation. the united states was in a down slide. the jobs that have been built up have been steadily increasing since obama left office. the united states is in a decline right now. the united states of america depends on our skilled labor. i studied in europe. i speak german and spanish.

our people need to know and american needs to know this. trump is destroying the soul of this nation. we have to get back on the footing of what we had when we put a man on the moon years ago. we need that soul again. we need the can-do spirit of the united states of america back in the forefront. the europeans are looking at is wondering what's going on in this nation. there are 20 states suing this government for what it's doing on the border with mexico. this is an immigrant nation. i'm an african american scientist. my father was an immigrant. , a proud immigrant scientist, a doctor, a

veterinarian. i'm a phd scientist also. i am proud of america. host: thank you for calling. the bureau of labor statistics somemonth puts out specific information about the various sectors. here's the front page of the report from march 19. there were 70,000 new jobs in the month of march. 37,000 jobs in professional services. leisure and hospitality, 30,000 new jobs. on the negative side, 6000 manufacturing jobs lost last month, 12,000 jobs lost in the area of retail trade. if you look at "the wall street journal" today, they write that

the march report likely tells the federal reserve that the economy is neither slumping nor rising. policymakers indicated after the march meeting that they are unlikely to raise rates in 2019. year, manyo the air expected rates to slow. lauren pennsylvania. unemployed. -- laura in pennsylvania. area, wilkes-barre correct? caller: yes. host: tell us your situation. caller: my son's situation. he is 28 years old. this county has no jobs at all. right now, he's working at a

temp agency. he was telling me about the spanish people that work there, the subcontractors, the employers don't even know what's going on. they treat the spanish people like crap. they keep pushing and pushing on you to go faster, faster, faster. my son hardly gets a break. there's no jobs around here. it is the worst county in pennsylvania, just awful around here. host: what are you hearing from elected officials? wilkes-barre suffered for quite a long time. what do you hear from your members of congress about how to help that area? caller: not really anything,

actually. it's been like this since i was a teenager. it never changed. worse becauseting they don't want to pay anybody. they pay him eight dollars an hour. it's just awful. his friends are looking for a job. he put out five applications, nobody is calling. that president trump won area in his election. what was the promise you folks were hearing? bring it up to present-day. caller: about jobs. infrastructure and all that kind of stuff. in this area, there's really nothing. a lot of people in the rural areas are republican. i live in the city. host: have you talked to your

son about moving out of the area? caller: he has to stay here because i'm disabled. he has to take care of me. it's really hard. he gets up at 3:00 in the morning to be there at 5:00 and works there until 3:00. he goes to bed at 8:00. every day is like that. he has just enough time to do laundry. bad. 28 and his back is the boss treats everybody like crap. my son stood up to the sky. -- this guy. for sharing your family situation. best of luck to you. john calling from rockford, ellen annoying now. -- rockford, illinois now. caller: good morning. i work for fiat chrysler.

getting a shipment that will be taking up at the belvedere plant. they are investing money up in michigan to redo some of the factories up there, more assembly. but, with the current administration with this border thing with mexico, they will shut down the border and everything, most of every auto supplier, wiring harnesses come out of mexico. that's the way it's been set up. if you was to shut down the border, it would put a lot of people out of work. that's why he had to reverse his call on that. the tax breaks he gave the businesses, working for chrysler, we got a $2000 bonus.

at the end of the year when we did our taxes, very few people got the higher tax returns. now, when they go out and buy a car -- or they would buy a car, they don't have the money to do so because of the tax breaks. it is kind of counterproductive for the auto industry with the current administration and the way it's going. this is the guy who said he was going to provide jobs and more american factories. i haven't seen that. : thank you for see calling. the president had to the border after backing off his threat to close it. the border after backing off his threat to close it. that is "the new york times." " thehe new york post,

president tells immigrants to go home because the u.s. is full. "the washington post" has this lead story. trump wants a tougher leader for ice. unexpectedly dumping his nominee a 30 year week -- veteran of the u.s. border patrol, currently the top official at the u.s. immigration and customs enforcement, would the first trump senate confirmed director of ice. was to have joined trump for a visit to the border.

border, of the yesterday on "washington journal ," daniel talked about the importance of the u.s. relationship with mexico and how closing the border could hurt the economy. guest: there would be some industries that would gain from shutting the border. unfortunately, that would represent a broad swath of america. it would affect the auto industry and others. commercechamber of says 5 million jobs would mutely be affected. on theave been studies effectiveness of nafta. -- 5 million jobs would immediately be affected. we are the number two export market. we can just shut the border one way.

can see the full segment on www.c-span.org. robert calling from crosby, texas. you are looking for a job? caller: yes. i'm a senior citizen in good health. -- i've triedced getting some employment in the area. walmart andbs like -- i had ay put off 401(k) back in the day. with kids in college and everything, i had to draw the money out. right now, i'm surviving on a social security income. my thing is this. is there something the government can do to help the older citizens that have helped pave the way for the younger ones for those of us who want to

work? i can still work. me, a lot of jobs tell will, we will call you back -- well, we will call you back. youderstand the age, but if are still capable of working and you want to work, it seems like soy should help protect us we can survive, too. i'm past 65. i am back in school. i'm a welder by trade. i'm one of the oldest black welders -- i still want to work. do when we go to a and they say we are overqualified or underqualified? we just want to work to make that extra dollar so we can

survive. post" talksngton about low income workers in its peace today. today.e many states have enacted minimum wage increases. competition heating up for warehouse workers in central pennsylvania, a major trucking hub. worker retention jumped 400%. that's according to the chief executive of blue crew. everyone is having trouble hiring. raising wages is one way to fix it. target announced this week it will raise its starting pay to $13 an hour in june. another sign of how competition is escalating for workers. this is the third payraise target has done in the past two years. strong,as hiring remain wages are climbing, the economy

is likely to continue growing. people typically spend more when they are not worried about losing their job. pikeville, maryland now. good morning. caller: good morning. great show. i'm a longtime employee for huge shipping company. a lot of companies are not giving raises. everybody works for the government, state, city. they are not receiving raises. thee companies consider benefit package as part of their salary. you cannot go to the store with your benefit package to buy groceries or pay gas and electric. the previous gentlemen mentioned that he is 65 years old and can't find a job. people are not hiring people over 50. therefore, those people are going behind or staying behind.

most people i know have two or three jobs, they have five kids -- piece together their family or household. from was granted a gift the previous administration. he did not provide jobs for anything. he's helping companies keep wages the way they are. people are not making enough money to survive, as you saw from the shutdown. security, they just signed contracts. if they had been shut down, we would be shut down. the medical services coming up -- there's a lot of issues. trump did not save this economy. a lot of companies are hiring people from other countries to do our jobs. that is backwards.

we have a language issue. i'm not against anybody in other countries trying to make money. there's a link which barrier. -- language barrier. you are in constant cleanup mode. i don't see us going ahead. some people are getting bonuses. i'm not seeing it. thank you for listening. host: we appreciate your participation. terry in maryland. caller: all of last year, i was looking for jobs. i think the trump tariffs really hurt our economy. the warehouse distribution field for sometime. i was just employed earlier this year. in january at the university.

i had transferable skills. manufacturing distribution jobs are really going down. when i was applying for jobs don't evencompanies want to pay for your skills that you already have. jobd a guy get offered a with a salary of what my son was a fast foodight fas restaurant right out of high school. it's really bleak. i don't understand -- i understand the payraise, but a lot of that is what they should already be paying or more.

i'm in the d.c. metropolitan area. $15 an hour doesn't do nothing to your rent in this area. is $1200it is an area rent in this -- $1200, $1300 an hour. host: jody writes on twitter -- the jobs report came out yesterday. 190,000 new jobs, a solid report. wages slowing down just a little bit. 3.8% unemployment overall. there's lots more news on this saturday morning. congressman tim ryan is announcing he's running for president.

we will have his formal announcement in youngstown, ohio today. that will be live at 2:00 p.m. eastern time today. it will repeat at 8:00 p.m. eastern. new york times has a story about its mayor, bill de blasio. is he running for president in 2020? sure looks like it. he has traveled to three early ,residential primary states held $5,000 a plate fundraising events. here's a story from politico about joe biden. biden struggles to move past the controversy over his physical contact. if joe biden was hoping to move past the controversy over his unwelcome physical conduct with women on friday, he has not

succeeded. here's a short clip from that event. [video clip] [applause] ♪ [applause] >> good to be home! [applause] >> thank you. thank you, thank you, thank you. please, thank you. that will go to my head. thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. -- youw what they say guys brought me to the dance. you really did. i want you to know, i had

permission to hug lonnie. [laughter] host: one of the jokes politico later,bout -- 15 mins late on stage, kids shaking hands and putting his arm around one male student, joking that he was given permission -- the new democratic party is colder, less human and divisive -- a bit more from the piece by

peggy noonan. that is peggy noonan in "the wall street journal" today. back to your calls on the jobs report. randy from iowa. thank you for waiting. good morning. caller: good show. you've had some callers here that touch on subjects that are

near and dear to my heart. i'm retired union. i wasn't always union. i started out working pumping hour outside of pennsylvania. , theoint i want to make does not speak eloquently about the situation -- they do speak about the like the guy in utilities -- i worked the utilities industry for big companies. the idea is getting more technical and precision is profit because the bidding is so competitive. people.rain

unions have been destroyed since bill clinton was the beginning of the decline. we had 20% union membership. down to 6% or 7% union membership. immigration -- corporations have been bringing in illegal immigrants or immigrants to undermine the living wage of americans since they built the union pacific railroad. this is part of the history of the american worker. it needs to acknowledge and see as himself so he can a whole vision or whole picture. an economist, richard alf -- on youtube, i watched

lecture he was giving to students. the name was "socialism in america." how to understand the unionismtion between and socialism -- the reason socialism failed in russia and china and how the whole thing fits together and a better understanding. this is about the worker and the working-class. i'm all for the working-class. i don't care what color you are, i don't care if you are a recent immigrant. corporations and lobbyists and politicians that have been paid for go to washington and come home and tell their constituents how to vote and what they want. when it should be the other way around. the working-class is the backbone of this country. working-class is the future

market of this country to buy goods. i will get out of the way and call in.ody else host: in upper marlboro, maryland, gloria. what is your job situation? caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. trumptyety even before y that he is a huge part of the problem, particularly the fact that he has a worse thanionship with the truth he's ever had with any of his lies. blind, black, part cherokee, but i have an

expensive education, i speak five languages. this country is in such a mess that people with significant disabilities have no advocate. dumpty, donald duck and his group of crackpots are undermining the americans with disabilities act. he lessened the ability to have an equal seat at the table. fraud in the white house -- my biggest problem with his behind before even warmed the desk at the oval office, he was claiming the legacy of our first biracial president because there's no way union ofendure the

racists -- he doesn't want to endorse america's nature -- he was claiming that he was doing all these great things about jobs. the country was in great shape. he didn't have much to do and he isn't doing much. we have three dead people at the border because of his genocidal immigration policies, two children and a grown-up. he is simply strutting his narcissistic butt about the stage so that people don't have time to discuss the things that should be on the table. host: we want to get a few more calls in. one more story about the president. he is telling the treasury department not to give his tax o the democrats.

denyng on treasury to democrats' demands for six years of those tax records. chairssman richard neal the ways and means committee, onuing it risks encroaching .axpayers' privacy we will undoubtedly be hearing more about that in the weeks ahead. here is larry kudlow now. he visited with reporters earlier this week. he's the white house national economic council director. [video clip] >> things are looking up. i'm happy to see good numbers coming in. sloppyppy winner,

seasonal adjustments and sloppy government shutdown -- the atlanta fed's gdp is up to 2.1% for the first quarter. that was 0.3%. miss, add on the seasonal every year of the last eight years, we would be hovering around 3%. i like the ism reports very much. profits look good and cap goods look ok. andplan of lower tax rate the regulation and opening up energy and trade reform, which will continue to be the building block of economic policy and the trumpet ministration -- in the trump administration, i think it's working. 2.5%d 3% this year and moving in a higher trajectory.

i know there's a lot of skepticism about this around town. i respect that. supply-side tax cuts and we are boosting the employment reduction, business side of the economy -- employment production, business side of the economy. more people working successfully does not cause inflation. i'm not surprised to see the inflation numbers coming down as the economy continues to improve. the dollar looks fine to me. the economy is well-balanced. host: here's what carolyn had to say. a democrat from new york, the vice chair of the joint economic committee. job growth has slowed in the last 12 months. the headwinds from the ministration's erratic behavior

-- administration's erratic behavior has put downward pressure on employment. vice chair of the joint economic many. john calling from orlando, for now. -- that is the vice chair of the joint economic committee. caller: i called up a few times after the previous democratic senators, murphy and franken, introduced the move act. ban were trying to noncompete agreements for low-wage workers. has senator marco rubio introduced the freedom to compete act, which will amend the fair labor standards act. i will ask c-span once again, please have another segment to discuss noncompete agreements. they hold down wages.

states have been trying to beat these things back. we need a federal law. host: what is your job situation? caller: i was working in tech, i.t. support. all of our employers down here demand these noncompete agreements. i got tired of trying to deal with them. f theyon't tell you it the are going to require a noncompete agreement. they throw this contract that you, trapping you in these low-wage jobs. you are better off in hospitality where the wages are getting up to where the taxes but they won't give you a noncompete agreement as part of the bargain. host: jean in virginia. you are looking for a job. tell us your story.

caller: yes. hello? host: go ahead. caller: i'm not here to badger the president or anyone. immigration -- i'm going to talk jobs, of course. we need to start rebuilding america. there are jobs in the u.s. as well. we have to take into account that even though we have jobs and goods and services we produce, we have to be able to tell internationally. we deal with other countries as well as imports. i want to talk immigration policy. the task force is costing us and take care of people coming across the border. we should have a task force. we shouldn't let our local constituents off the hook. they need to be involved with

this immigration policy thing. 45 needs to show taxes. we should see that you are not involved in any way with benefiting from anything while you been the president. last but not least, sexual harassment. we've gotten away from training on the job, identifying with the , identifying with vice president biden -- why tell america now? i served in the u.s. army for 20 years. you have to let them know if companies have to get back with training, identifying. thank you for your time. host: this weekend, our c-span cities tour taking book to be an american history tv to san jose, california.

all of our book tv programs from the city will air. obispo, california. creek becameon the kind of notorious in the 1850's. 1858 to be particular. --y were fighting crime there was a crime wave here that was rather spectacular. wasbusiness community modeled on san francisco's in 1856. we have the dubious reputation of having hank more men than they did. they hanged four. we hanged six, maybe more. this is where the hangings would've taken place. host: we hope you watch our book

to in american history tv programming this weekend as we feature san luis obispo, california. carla from st. petersburg, florida. you are the final call for this hour. what is your job situation? caller: i'm 78 years old and i don't have a job. i've lived through a lot of decades of this country. 190 6000 jobsn 196,000last month -- jobs created last month. they don't report these good things on the stations. i am't understand why mediaslighted by the news that i'm a terrible person because i voted for trump. he's not a great personality, but he has done something for

the country. he does not have to have this job. he's only doing this because our country is going to far left. -- too far left. i've been to the socialist countries. kills the middle class. what happens is the government has all the money and there is poor people. that is my comment. i am older. i have seen what has happened in this country. we are better off with a middle-class and with the republicans and democrats coming together in the middle. host: thank you for everyone who called. coming up, we talk about the kate bahn gap with , later oneve wood we will talk with dr. bernhard wiedermann about the measles outbreak.

time,t at 9 p.m. eastern we will show an event with clarence thomas of the supreme court at pepperdine university making news. if you search for clarence thomas online at www.c-span.org, during the discussion he talked about how long he planned to remain on the event -- on the bench. >> 20 years from now at your retirement party. [laughter] >> i'm not retiring. >> 20 years? [laughter]>> no. >> let's fast-forward to the time at which you go home. well, i would not have any say about that. [laughter]>> hypothetical question. on that day, living or dead, who would you like -- [laughter]

dead, who would you like to speak at your funeral or your retirement party and what would they say? what would you hope they say? you talked about your place in the world. when it is time to celebrate the life and career of justice thomas ? >> somebody alive, number one. [laughter] -- you talk about your grandfather. >> my wife and i talk about this. he did his job. one of my current law clerks told me something that has stuck with me. it was humbling. recently. she said, the thing that really surprised her, you do this job with such joy. where do you think joy comes from?

that doesn't come from washington dc. [laughter] >> you think it comes from the negativity in the air? no. the comes from god. -- it comes from god. , had such a great life. he did his job and may he rest in peace. [laughter] [applause] >> i wouldn't spend a lot of time on it. [laughter] you have to get back to work. [laughter] watch the american story unfold on american history tv, today at 2 p.m. eastern on oral histories with an interview of a world war ii navajo code talker. sunday at 4 p.m. eastern on railamerica, looking back at nato's 10th anniversary.

9:00 p.m., rocket girls, the women of the jet propulsion laboratory at nasa. this weekend on american history tv on c-span3. washington journal continues. host: we will have a discussion about the gender pay gap in the u.s. our guests, kate bahn , an economist, good morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: we are also joined by genevieve wood. let's start with kate. what are we talking about with a gender pay gap? take us into the numbers. guest: it is one of the remarkably consistent features of the labor market. across the dollar, women the economy on average earn 20% less than men. it has been at that level for 40 years.

it havegs that explain changed. it used to be fewer years of experience, lower levels of education. now as women have caught up on that, it is more explained by occupational segregation. host: what is that? guest: i am an economist. when people are segregated into different jobs based on characteristics. women are over representatives -- overrepresented in certain jobs. they tend to be paid less considering both experience and value. of theenevieve wood heritage foundation, tell us what you have heard from kate so far, but speak to that 20%? how do you see that? guest: we may agree.

i agree with the way she framed that. when you talk on average, men and women in the workforce, it is true there is a difference. when you look at women and men in the same positions, same background in terms of levels in the workforce, same education levels, same number of years of experience in the same position, the gender gap disappears. it comes down to comparing people in the same jobs with the same experience, not saying on average all women in the workforce, versus all men in the workforce -- that is when you get the gap. host: we will split it into two lines. 8000.or women, (202)-748- men, call (202)-748-8001. you can send tweets as well. genevieve and kate, our guests.

talking about the gender pay gap. gets to what you were talking about. the uncontrolled and controlled gender pay gap. let's hear from kate, what are those terms? guest: when we want to understand why workers earn what they do, we look at factors associated, work experience, education, the country they live. control for these factors, it gets smaller. i don't want to say it disappears. 30% of the wage gap is unexplained. that is interpreted as discrimination. women of color, the gap is larger, 61% for black women and it is over half of the gender wage gap is unexplained by

typical factors. host: here are details. pay scale.com, the uncontrolled gender pay gap measuring median salary for all men and women. per dollar, the controlled gender pay gap, which measures them for the same job. -- for everyone job. guest: there is a choice cap. men and women make different choices. years, look at women and men going to college. women at every level of education are earning more degrees than men. saw,ast study was 2013 i for every 100 men who graduated, 140 women graduated. a lot of the education gap is no longer there.

what do men and women major in? often determines what you do in terms of employment. there are big differences what verses what women major in, the softer sciences, teaching, health care. whether we like it or not, a nurse is not making the same as a petroleum engineer. reality of where the labor market is. women are making choices, but they tend to be constrained. there are a couple factors. big pieces caregiving response to billy's. women do -- caregiving responsibilities. women still do the majority of these responsibilities. fieldsend to go into

that women are already in. role models really matter. to be able to see someone who looks like you, you know if you want to do it. my mom is a scientist. i grew up thinking women are great at math. i got a quantitative degree. it was great for me. economics this still a male dominated field. first from florida, sean. caller: what about the african-americans male and woman, the pay gap there? host: what do you think is going on? caller: it is the color. we don't want to say that, minimize that, but it is the color of your skin. host: you see a significant pay gap for those people? caller: most definitely. we cannot sit there and say that is not true.

does is not getting -- that is just ludicrous. host: let's break this down further. african-americans, hispanics. what would you say? guest: i was not prepared on the specific numbers but you have to look -- whether it is an african-american male versus a white male or white woman, if there are pay discrepancies based on anything other than education level, work experience, anything they bring to the table, that could be room for a determination suit. we have laws on the books that allow for that. you're not allowed to discriminate on pay based on gender or racial preference. that is wrong. host: this is a huge problem. 53% of atinas makeup

white man, african-american women, 61%. what is interesting is, it is not just adding up a racial wage gap and gender wage gap. it seems like women of color face unique barriers in the labor market. when we are trying to understand the control and the uncontrolled workers, aonwhite much bigger portion is explained by outright this termination. -- outright discrimination. what shewould add, said earlier about having role models and people like you in positions, that encourages people to say i can do that now. that is important. do noth of that is, i see anyone who looks like me in that profession, so i won't go after it. that can affect people.

there are ways in which we should look deeply into numbers as opposed to taking numbers at face value. say, what is really causing this? we usually try to solve something the wrong way if we don't do that. host: what kind of impact does the age of a worker have in this context? guest: what do you mean? host: in terms of the gap, is it different depending on the industry? industries payt different amounts. if you are a petroleum engineer, you're making more than someone in early childhood education. the number of men who major in engineering, 87% in that major. 97%y childhood education, of the people who study that in college are women. closer choices. we can talk about why they make those choices. if you study that, you become a

teacher, an engineer, you will have more men in an area making more than women in other areas. host: does company size make a difference? guest: it can. this is something happening across the economy for all workers. different companies pay different amounts, even in the same industry. firms, itf superstar is interesting. get sorteds is, men into higher paying companies, and women into lower paying companies. i have a couple thoughts on why this may be. that is what we see. host: bill in chicago. caller: good morning. seen most families in america, single-parent families, and women. [indiscernible] i also worked with --

[indiscernible] -- i have seen the same -- [indiscernible] -- impossible odds. it doesn't make sense that america allows women to be paid less when they are raising millions of our children. by themselves. it just doesn't make sense. thank you. host: thank you. guest: i completely agree. women are making choices. if you are a single mother, you have caregiving responsibilities, it is hard to balance those with making free choices in the labor market, trying to find the best job. what choice is it when you are constrained and raising a family on your own? people are making the best choices they can but that is still under constraint. guest: i think, one thing men

and women want, especially women, is often flexibility in jobs because of family responsibility. one of the dangers, looking at congress here and others trying to legislate people making the same thing and putting in artificial barriers, is that it makes it hard for employers and employees to negotiate what they want something to be. people sometimes don't want more pay, they want more flex ability. we have to think about those things. host: amy in illinois, thank you. caller: thank you. fornt to think genevieve not making women look like victims. all the women that went before madeat made sherry had -- sure we had more choices than ever, that we can work and balance family, every woman has a choice to do what she feels like she wants to do. if she wants to have a career, she can.

if she wants a family, she can. if she wants both, she can. we have those choices. it is good that we have that. it is dangerous to raise the next generation of daughters to think that there is still some kind of fight. we always have to be fighting for this and that. we have it pretty good now, ladies, we do. host: thanks. this headline from time. gap of men believe the pay is made up. up toelieve it is made serve a political purpose. -- how doesinion that help the conversation? guest: the opinion doesn't always line up with what is in the data. the gender wage gap is persistent over time. people can have opinions. the fact is, we have great people working in agencies in the u.s. and we are measuring how much people earn.

we know overall, women tend to have lower earning than men. this will affect the economic well-being of women compared to men. guest: people have opinions. there is a reality. it is important. think you are behind the curve, it can hurt your confidence. one of the things we have seen is men have the tendency to be forward in asking for raises, whether when they first negotiate or when they are already in and want to ask for more. they are more aggressive than women. one of the reasons is, sometimes women get the idea that they are behind the curve, men are making more, so they are not as confident to go into the office and say, i deserve more money. we have to be careful we don't discourage -- that we discourage

women when we are talking that they make so much less. that is not necessarily the case when you are in the same job. host: ross calling from boston. caller: great topic. following up. company, just the fact that it seems as when you look at same level, same profession, there isn't a statistically pay gap. when you look at data, people say, does this mean there is some insidious situation where executives at companies are on purpose paying women less? it sounds like things are more nuanced. i want to get the panel's reaction. hometown,to my boston. this is an interesting feature of the economy.

i don't think people are being malevolent. have the overall dynamic that allows companies to pay less, they will unconsciously pay certain workers last if they can get away with it. i don't think they are trying to be mean or insidious. they are responding to signals they get from the market. they will ultimately pay women less than men. guest: there was a study a couple months ago at google. they do this every year. they are concerned everyone is making the same amount. they themselves were surprised, it was men at google who were making less money. when they try to readjust salary, the men in the company, 69% got the most raises because they were trying to level out. even google was surprised it was women making more than the majority of men. host: how would something happen

like that? guest: my guess is they were hiring women with great experience, therefore they were getting paid what they deserved. some of the guys coming in, maybe had less experience. host: another headline from business insider.com. you talk about the corporate community. this chart shows the gender pay gap extends to the top of the corporate ladder. you will see this chart. businesses,le range high range businesses, you can see the distinctions between men and women. on the high end, women typically make $275,000 plus, and the men are over $310,000. we can look at that chart. can you speak to the corporate world? when we look at higher

level within corporate or education, the gender wage gap still exists. once you get to the higher level, it is even more extreme. google is a great example. when you're looking at people in the same positions on the corporate ladder, there may be closer earnings but ultimately more men are getting promoted up the ladder and there are more men at the higher level corporate offices. women are making less money in those spaces, they are also underrepresented. that will help the overall gender wage gap within a firm. guest: that is where you have to look at choice. as you go up the corporate letter, people at the top have been in the force for a number of years. often times, women have taken time off to have children, a choice they make but more women make that choice than men and when you do that you step away for five years, the guy who was

next to you at one point has moved up, so when you come back, which often explain that. a fellowevieve wood, at the institute of politics at university of chicago previously. job.: i can't keep a [laughter] bahn with us as well, the economist. she has a doctorate from the new school for social research. cindy hanging on from cromwell, connecticut. caller: thank you for taking my call. longtime viewer. first time calling in. host: welcome. caller: i just turned 60. for 40 years, i have been

working in an office environment in companies under 50 employees. there was a question about gender gap in the size of the company. my experience from starting as a secretary and moving up to administrative director, which is what i am now, for the last 18 years i have been in management. fromd the pay gap comes the management level of what it is i manage. the administrative end of a company or corporation tends to be looked upon as it is less important than the manufacturing or purchasing end. withugh i sit at a table my coworkers in middle management, i have traditionally been to any percent at less of 20% atey are paying -- less of what they are paying.

i am aggressive about asking for pay scale up and i have moved it up through the years but it is not a given. i have to fight for every dollar. my male counterparts, it is a given their value to the company is worth more than the administrative end. it is absently right. you have to look -- absolutely right. you have to look at the different sides of it. notis it administrative is valued as much as production? shouldwe say teachers not be paid more than members of congress? they are fair questions. that explains the gap. the job pays. not because you are a woman. if there was a man in administrative, was he getting paid more? guest: great question.

there is research that shows jobs associated with women, pay less than jobs associated with men. secretarial work. great example. it used to be men. as it became more female dominated, the pay dropped. the opposite has happened with other jobs. hidden figures. female coders used to be women. it was a low-paying job. as more men went in, pay starts to rise. there is something going on when we associate a job with women. it gets devalued. they have to fight for every dollar compared to men, whose contribution is assumed and it is easier for them to make more money. passed theouse paycheck fairness act in the last weeks. explain us -- expand to us what it is all about? guest: this comes up every

april, the day when they say women have to work to april 1 to make up for april 2, to make up for their discrepancies. if we want to tell employers, this is a law that says employers have to pay men and women the same amount of money. that is already the law of the land since 1963, the equity pay act, that says you cannot discriminate in pay based on gender. say to employers, it would make it easier to sue an employer where men and women, only because they were making different, you would have to prove it had nothing to do with the fact that the man had more experience or the woman had more experience. it would make it a lawsuit environment under state legislation. i don't think it will be brought up in the senate. host: seven republicans voted for. why did most vote no? guest: it already exists.

you can already sue if you believe you are being paid less because you are a woman. that is already illegal in this country. particularly less, in this environment, we are often in workplaces where we do not have information about what we are earning in the employer at large will have more info. it will give more bargaining power. workers may not know they are being paid less. it will be hard to navigate legal systems. it will make legal systems easier to navigate. to have themportant equal employment opportunity commission being able to look into these companies without someone bringing a charge on their own. the commission has the eeo1, where companies that large have to submit data on what workers are making in the different representations in salary bands,

so if workers do not necessarily know they are making more than the guy next to them, the eeoc can have a check on that. guest: we are going to open the books to everybody. everyone knows what everybody is making. we have to think about what that does in the office. . what does that do ultimately to wages? if you are a company and you know your books could be opened, in some cases you will say, i will hire less men or women from the gecko. i don't want to get into the space. -- the get go. let's say there is a woman on the payroll who has been doing a superior job then the guy next to her in the same job, i want to give her a raise. i will not. when the eeoc opens up the books and sees she is making more than he is, i could be sued, and it will cost me more to do that then it is to give her a raise, so i won't even bother.

guest: it is also important to recognize antidiscrimination laws, it depends who is a protected class. i am an economist. typically speaking, white men are not a protected class. it is harder for them to bring up these cases. leeway becauseve these laws have been on the books. we know that this termination has persisted despite the laws. we see the same thing in union contracts. even though the gender wage gap is lower in union industries, it still persists. that is already what they are doing. host: less than a half-hour with our guests. patty in rhode island, thanks for waiting. -- eddie. caller: the average male in the u.s. lives 76 years. average female, 81 years. there is a lifespan gap.

i believe, maybe even a major portion of it, due to the fact that men take higher stress jobs, work more hours in higher risk professions. could you comment? guest: i don't have any specific comments on the lifespan gap. i do not know a tremendous amount about it. jobs of amen go into more physically demanding nature. that may be associated with pay level. looking at lifespan gaps, this is another way we can look at retirement security. women have lower levels of retirement security. they live longer. they have less money to live off of. men have more in their accounts. i want everyone to live long, healthy lives. they have more money to support themselves. guest: i don't know what

contributes to men having a shorter lifespan. men go into professions riskier, often make more money, look at the mining industry. if you think about unions. there are more men that are minors than are women. those are risky jobs. host: david from new york. caller: good morning. od isee with what ms. wo skating -- is saying but it is from a point of scarcity. the labor participation standard is based on men. the unemployment rate is around 4%. if only 63% of the men are working and the unemployment rate is low, that means the employee portion of women is much higher. i agree with everything kate is saying. i work for a company that hires

workeers to do draftsman and there is a plethora out there. it is more of an issue of scarcity than gender pay. if we had guaranteed jobs, the gender gap would disappear. look at the engineers in that field. over the past 20 years, we have encouraged through stem programs, more women to do what kate has done, go into the hard sciences, math, economics, computers and so forth. despite the effort we put into that, you don't have large numbers of young women making those choices, even though there are more scholarships now, there is more push, even from pr standpoints, trying to get more women into these fields. that plays to scarcity. they're not as many women engineers. guest: i also want to talk about the labor participation point. it is higher than the figure

they noted. men still have much higher participation. he brought up how this affects the workforce. women are less than half the workforce, around 40%. long-term, men labor force per dissipation has been declining. this is an area of concern in the policy world and in society. long-term decline, people are worried. women have also recently had a decline. this is troubling. the u.s. is the only country among developed countries that is having this decline, which is what we are attributing to, the lack of policies families need to be able to balance care responsibly. the u.s. is unique and not having a social safety net that helps people balance caring for families and making the choices they want in the economy. host: tweet from john. some of the pay gap could be contributed by deadbeat dads.

what do you think? guest: it is important we are making sure single mothers have economic security and access to caregiving support they need. the fact is, this is a family structure more people are found in. people need access to good opportunities and economic security. guest: it comes back to flex ability. in the workforce today, people don't work for 40 years in a company and retire with pensions. we are in a different type of economy. we have to look at a lot of things. whoseill help someone situation changes over time? it is not always more pay. it is often flex ability. how do we make sure they can negotiate and don't become so legislative happy trying to force people into one area or one-size-fits-all that we don't

allow people to negotiate? host: john calling. caller: good morning. couple of questions. ofyou took out the element choices people make with the pay gap, would it be equal? women tend to choose less risky jobs, fields that are lower paying, they choose to leave the workforce to have families, they choose not to be as aggressive in asking for raises. if you took all those people out, would there be no pay gap? my second question is, if do get employers can and away with paying women less, why don't they just hire entire staffs of women and leave men out? host: interesting questions. guest: on the first one, to lay

out the point, if you go back and compare men and women graduated with similar degrees, the same type of physician, the same experience, education, for another job, same number of years in workforce, compare that woman and that man, you rarely find there is a difference in pay gap. if they are in the same city, same company, you cannot say, the person in new york is making more than the poison -- then the person in iowa. you have to look apples to apples. the pay gap does not exist in those areas. when you add in other factors an average it out, that is where you get the pay gap. guest: it is important to look at the choices so we understand how to address the gender pay gap. that is not to say that it does not exist. women have a lower level of economic well-being than men. that is important.

we want women to feel economically secure. women are making the best choices we can under constraints we all face but we want to make sure even if you are making constrained choices, you need a flexible job to balance taking care of your kids, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to be economically insecure and live in a precarious place. 8000. women,---(202)-748- men, call (202)-748-8001. steve is calling from apex, north carolina. i agree with kate. i will use myself. i don't have to use statistics. i worked at a job eight years. they hired a guy from jacksonville, north carolina. later, a young lady came in behind me, i had to train her. i understood.

she never complained. they hired this guy from jacksonville with no experience. they clearly told me. train this guy. i trained them all. i'm pretty good friends with the guy that cleans up the place. he found the receipt. the guy that cleaned up, you have to keep this to yourself. he pulls out the paper. he showed it to me. this guy was making two dollars to five cents more than i was. i can imagine the female i trained. you know, you can say all the laws are on the books. like kate said, the system simply doesn't work. i don't know how we fix it. there is no way in the sun you -- here wasat women

a man, this man had noise. going on my six years -- this man had no experience, going on my six years. guest: it sounds like you have a legitimate case. to say that this never happens, of course it does. are there employers out there who do not treat employees equally fairly? absolutely. i do not think it is a vast majority. there are folks who are not doing well by their employees. we have laws where you can address that. you're right. we have to stay on it. i don't think we will ever pass a law that is perfect where people will never get away with treating people unfairly. place think you are in a where you are not being treated fairly, you should raise it and i would be looking for somewhere else you can take your skills. you deserve to be paid well. guest: most people don't necessarily have the opportunity

to quit their job and look for a better one. most people live paycheck-to-paycheck. it makes it hard to find an employer offering the right mix of things you need, making sure they are paying you in accordance with experience, giving you flexibility want, the benefits you want. it is hard for people to do that type of job search and find the perfect job. people are accepting of the second-best. they're doing the best they can. they are making rational choices. they're not able to quit the job and go somewhere else. guest: i don't think most people would quit the next day but you can start looking for something else. especially in the economy today, a lot of jobs are not filled, and they do not require high levels of education. we have a good economy for other jobs. frankly, it is an employee market. employers are having to fight for employees. that is a good thing for employees. host: sam and washington, d.c. caller: thank you for taking my

call. this is a question for kate. i'm hearing a lot of talk about women choosing to step away from the workforce. it seems like it is putting things back on individual choice, like it is neutral. talk more about how, does that actually happen on a broad level? guest: across history, countries, the world, women still have a disproportionate care burden. caring for families is a wonderful thing. but to have only women take this effects thatver will impact every other choice women are making in the economy. it will put them in a different decision compared to men. women are taking time off. when you're living paycheck-to-paycheck and you don't make a lot of money, maybe it makes sense to take time off to focus only on family, instead of having your paycheck go to a caretaker but it will have long economic impacts.

they don't have any other choice . they can't say, i will give my whole paycheck to my child caretaker, so i can keep working, so i don't lose lifetime earnings increases. people are not able to make choices. there constrained. they're trying to do the best i can. as long as it is particularly women who are relied on to make those choices and do that care work, they will be facing a different economy than men. host: there is pay and then wealth. we found the story in the washington post. america doesn't just have a gender pay gap, there is a gender wealth gap. they're making a point here, on average women in the u.s. own $.32 to every dollar owned by men. wealth is accumulated in many ways. closing the wealth gap requires more than women negotiating higher salaries and receiving larger paychecks. guest: it i have seen the study

-- i have seen a study showing the opposite. that, thatok at means a lot of things. it is not just what you are earning. guest: i would love to see that study. i have not seen that figure. when we are looking at this data, we are comparing single women to single men. you can get at people earning different accounts within households, but wealth is typically held within households. we can reverse engineer it to understand who has control over these assets. after a divorce, you have joint assets. women lose a tremendous amount of wealth. men seem to retain wealth after divorce. women have less control over that wealth after dissolution of the household. host: mario in lebanon, ohio. aller: if you would allow

socratic question from the point of view of the employer. research. an employer has a limited budget. equally qualified applicants. male and female. why would that employer squander his limited budget and pay a male more than a female? what does the research point to? guest: this gets to economic theory. the idea that discrimination would not exist if we lived in a fully free economy, because why would employers do this? this is the theoretical point. that being said, it is not how employers are acting real world. reason, they are not making perfectly rational optimizing choices, but they are still paying women less than men.

may be a theoretically doesn't make sense. it is what is happening. guest: as we look at this discussion, we haven't talked about, women make choices, but how they make women and men, how they make choices together, especially if a couple is married, the guy could be the one who steps out in the couple has to make that decision. that is not a legislative decision that ought to be made. if you look at numbers, young women and men out of college, the 100 most popular cities in the country, young women on average are making 8% more than their male counterparts. these are people just getting started on careers. they probably don't have children yet. they are probably not married yet. when you're starting off equal, we should be careful what we wish for, because women are doing better in those cases. as time goes on, increasingly,

more women than men decide to step out of the workforce. that it is -- that is a decision they make personally. we have to be respectful of that. host: barbara in massachusetts. question fore a genevieve. both individuals might wish to respond. there is so much more information sharing, particularly among the young workforce today. concerns about whether you individual, if they now all of a sudden know everyone's income or wages in a company, may be somewhat unfounded in that that information is out there. that is part of the greater information sharing among young people on social media and other platforms. i'm curious what you think about that. guest: when i first got out in the job market, we all talked about what we made at that time.

people are freer at that area. if you think of a regular office environment, everybody in that environment knowing what other people are making, whether they ask for it or announce a attorney -- or an outside attorney wanted to put those numbers there, i have been in a place where that happened. the magazine got a hold of what other people in the company were making. they caused a lot of discord amongst our group. this is a television environment. i won't name it. people had similar jobs. producer, senior producer, different things. people had a different number of hours, skill levels, and they were pay that way. it made people have different salaries. it caused a lot of discord. that: this is a problem there is more information. there is evidence workers may be

retaliated against by employers if they discuss that information. workers need to be protected. employers are always going to have more information about what employees are making. this is something that has been known for a long time. adam smith wrote about this in 1776. employers will always have more information. it will give them more power to set wages. host: michigan, good morning. caller: i paid for my house early. my employer lowered my rate because i did not have -- [indiscernible] where,so live in a town

the town next to me, rent and stuff is higher, they pay a higher amount. does that have anything to do with how your employer pays you? i know that a lot of companies, when they decide on pay scale, they look at a number of things. what is the cost of housing? cost-of-living? what do other companies in the region pay for that position? things do go into it. employer should not be lowering your pay for that. in terms of cost-of-living, that definitely is something they will do. regionalere are huge wage variations nationally.

that is important to look at. where someone lives is a smaller excellent tory factor when we look at the gender -- is a smaller factor. where someone lives, matters less. host: women can close the pay gap by forming unions -- this headline -- in 2016, women in unions were paid 23% higher wages than those not in a union. guest: if you want to join a union, you should. people should not be forced to join a union. that gets into the union discussion as well. this comes down to what kind of job you are in. not all jobs will be prone to a union type environment. i would be cautious. host: do other countries have a gender pay gap, and is it similar to the u.s.? there maye countries,

be better worklife supports, lower cost of childcare, subsidized childcare, that might help women make different choices in the economy. one of the amazing things is how consistent some of these disparities are across the world, especially things like occupational segregation, one of the biggest factors contributing to the gender wage gap in the united states, it is so persistent that across the funneled intore certain types of jobs and those associated with women will be paid less. host: are there legislative efforts of note in other countries? guest: similar to the u.s.. pay transparency. banning employers asking previous salary. the big thing really is that other countries, other developed countries have better worklife policies where people can balance caregiving response about these. host: scott in gaylord, michigan. caller: good morning.

my situation is pretty good in northern michigan. we have job positions posted, the salary is right there. male or female, here is what your hired at. pay schedule increases. -- per year. that is pretty good. don't be afraid to move. that is your biggest chance at getting a pay raise. i left other jobs on good terms. i look at it as an adventure. host: moving is not always simple. caller: it is not but don't be afraid of it. i have done it three times with kids. it is scary. once you do it, pick a spot you want to go, i went from the

great lakes to the mountains back to the great lakes again, which we loved. it is part of the adventure. if you can do that, that is the biggest payraise you can get. change in jobs. several people did the same thing. guest: i love the great lakes and northern michigan in the summer. wish i could get a job there myself. everything. -- pay isn't everything. it is not the end-all be-all. there are a lot of things that go into quality-of-life. host: i want to show you this tweet. we touched on this very little. how come there is no comparison of white women salaries with black women salaries? guest: what we want to do when we look at these wage

decompositions, we want to compare prototypical person facing the least barriers, white men are the standard of the worker who is facing the least barriers. comparing white women to black women, there is a discrepancy. what we really want to know is the sum of this. economists look at it this way. host: jane from pennsylvania. caller: good morning. wanted to make a comment. in regards -- i am a new grandparent. my daughter and her husband have to struggle with daycare. she has a job. she has a good job. she works at home. jobmakes choices within her as far as she wants to go with know, womenas we

are the primary caregivers of children. even myself, i have had to make decisions because of that. jobs, working at your job and then working at home and not getting paid for it, is difficult. women nowadays don't have a choice. they have to work. they are still the ones who are the primary caregivers. they are still the ones who are worried about their child being sick at daycare, taking the majority of time off and yet still we think we have come a long way. we really haven't. we really haven't. genevieve, you need to understand that. the reason i say that is because not everybody is in the position that they can stay home with children. i have done both. stayed home with children, went back to college. i have done it all. i will tell you, it is not easy.

as women, we need to support each other. that is very important. we also need to make sure there is a safety net for people, especially single women, who need to make sure they have proper daycare for their children and subsidize. thank you and have a nice day. guest: i don't disagree with anything she said about it being hard for women, especially when you are trying to do both. it is like having two full-time jobs. i have to disagree. i think we have made progress. if you go back 30 years, the vast majority of women became teachers, nurses. both great professions. young women today think of a whole host of things when they think about what they want to do when they grow up. they don't think about three

different professions. i'm not saying we have hit the promised land. we have gotten closer. we should take victory where we have them, not keep fighting the same battle until we have made no progress, because we have. host: last call from richmond, virginia. caller: i want to share my experience over the years working in an industry for a big company. i have gone up pay scale. i have had persons come in and work side-by-side with me or even in a senior position. i'm a 32 year veteran. they have worked as long as i have or less and they have gotten senior positions and i have been asking for a senior position but i have not gotten it. i have been put in a predicament where i am training and mentoring those persons. the state -- these things still happen.

it happened when i started, it is still happening today. i want you to know, it is still going on. i have just recently in the last three years asked for a promotion and have not gotten it. i'm still helping to help mentor other people who are in senior positions already. that is a disadvantage. host: have you ever had a talk with the boss about this? caller: yes. i have in my performance reviews talked about that. host: what have you heard back? caller: one time they told me they were not promoting because all jobs have been frozen for that time. they were not doing raises. then one person got hired at senior level. i questioned that. they said they were not doing that again. still, i have been asked to help those persons and mentor them and train them. host: go ahead.

thank you for sharing your thank you for sharing your situation with us. we have time for one final comment. let's start with kate bahn. that: i want to make sure we're realizing that closing the gender wage gap is good for the economy. we have $800 billion in lost wages. they will spend that money in this economy. it will spill over everywhere in our economy. and so it is very important. also, when i think we do provide women, they can make choices for their economy and for their family, we will find workers able to match the job that they like more, that they are better suited for, they can move more if they want to move more. that will make them more productive as well. not only did we want

individuals who do it well, but we also want our economy to do well, we want to look at what causes the gender wage gap. host: genevieve wood's. guest: i think we need to do as good a job as we can, and when you look at wages and the like, what you studied in college, what career you decided to go into, all of that matters when you determine what your weight will ultimately be. i think young women should be encouraged to explore all different channels of the workforce. they should not be channeled into one. i think less and less of that is happening. when you look at 100 different cities around the country, 147 of them, young women are making more than their male counterparts. host: genevieve wood, of the heritage foundation, inc. you for being with us, and we think kate bahn of the washington center for equitable growth, thank you for your time. one more hour of the "washington journal."

the former senator from south here, he the picture was 97 years old, is it charismatic and quick witted former senator who became one of the state's most important national figures. he was 97 years old. "it is a sad day for the state," lilly said.affers literaller you can read that story for the "post and courier." we will be back in a moment with dr. bernhard wiedermann, who will talk to us about measles cases in this country. they are on the rise. we will find out why. elizabeth zach will join us.

she will discuss about tax preparers from h&r block and others, and talk about the simplicity. we will be right back. ♪ >> today, booktv has lived all the coverage of the annapolis book festival. 10:00 a.m. eastern, featuring silicon valley investor roger mcnamee, looking at the long-term impact of facebook in his book "zuck: waking up to the facebook catastrophe." town,"00 a.m., "our

followed by noon eastern, recalling work with black lives matter. then, catherine jamieson discusses the russian interference with the presidential election. and at 4:00 p.m., journalist and author evan thomas recounts the life of america's first female supreme court justice, sandra day o'connor. watch live all the coverage of the annapolis book festival this morning starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern on booktv on c-span2. historianek on "q&a," douglas brinkley talks about his book "american moonshot: john f. kennedy and the great american space race." douglas: he goes back to fdr, but fdr's new deal was stupid,

so what fdr did well beyond social security endings and things, he built this grand coulee dam. eisenhower had the highway system. kennedy is saying what is my administration's big public works thing? i admire that he took technology. the computer chip that we think about today was developed in the late 1950's. martin aviation starts kicking in. by the time jack kennedy runs in the 1960's, there are no computer science classes. by the time he is killed in dallas, there are computer science classes everywhere. air travel is replacing automobile and train travel. people are flying everywhere, openedports are being across the country. so what is the jet age, the space-age, and kennedy grasped onto that animated the new frontier. >> sunday at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a."

>> "washington journal" continues. host: at the table now is dr. bernhard wiedermann, who is an infectious diseases specialist. we know the measles cases in ve shot up again. we want to talk about a report in "usa today." in the early part of this decade, the number was 63, ms. places in this country. -- measles cases in this country. it shot up, went way down again, now it is back up to 387. can you explain where this recent spike is coming from? guest: yeah, sure. that is a great question. we had been in pretty good shape for many years following the introduction of the measles vaccine in the early 1960's in the u.s. but things started to change, as

you showed on that graph, in the it is probably a couple of issues going on. number one, in our country, for a lot of different reasons, the vaccination rate and vaccination coverage fell, and measles is about the most contagious virus there is for humans. it is very easy to spread. for someone who has measles, every 10 people to come into contact with, nine of those 10 people will become infected. it is very easy to spread. and our coverage has dropped to low in pockets of the united states to prevent that sort of herd immunity transmission. and then internationally, for a number of reasons, measles cases have risen, and with all the

international travel, it makes all that more easier to import cases. host: we will get to more about measles and what is being done with it, but we want to get to your calls. we split the line three ways. if you are a parent, call (202) 748-8000. doctors, we have for you, (202) 748-8001. everybody else, (202) 748-8002. on theill keep those screen for a couple of minutes and get calls for dr. bernhard who is also a professor at the george washington university and health sciences. figure, a number of measles cases currently, is that considered an outbreak? guest: well, it is the cumulative number of several outbreaks. technically, the definition of an outbreak, you have to have at least three cases that are sequentially transmitted.

there are many more than that. so we have had cases so far this year in 15 states, and several outbreaks around the country. host: and we are showing the map on the screen. cases, we can see a large number of them are in the western states, washington, oregon, california, new mexico. some in colorado, texas. the upper midwest, not much going on right now in the measles area. and then parts of the midwest and the more the eastern part of the midwest, and then in the northeast. what is it about those states, those 15 states, that you can tell us? guest: it is a combination of a few things. each little albert of course is unique and different, but what usually happens is someone who an area where there

is a lot more measles than there is here, and then they come back , maybe to a community of other individuals who are not immunized or are under immunized, and that is what starts an outbreak, so it is a combination of things. and once we get a pocket, an outbreak like that, then it can spread beyond that small community. that is why you see multiple cases involved, so it can start in one area in california, for example, but end up in multiple states. host: one of those states not on the map is maryland. we just got a tweet from carroll , that times in maryland and these aree, numbers that do not seen in decades. what can be and what is being done about this most recent outbreak? guest: well, the most important

thing is to get immunizations, and there are sums individuals -- some individuals who cannot get the vaccine because weakened things likems and that, so we already have a community of people who cannot get immunized or do not respond to vaccines, so we want to get immunized asiduals possible. the estimated things about 95% immunized intion order to prevent these outbreaks from expanding. s have tocination continue. it is not a one-time immunization. the shots have to be repeated, correct? guest: yes, although the measles vaccine is effective, one-shot, between 12 months and

15 month of age, is 93% effective. it is recommended to get a second dose for years to six years of age, and that posts the the levels and 97% effectiveness. the general recommendations for vaccines starting as early as 12 months of age. generallyur states have the infrastructure to provide the shots? is the money and the availability out there? guest: absolutely. the infrastructure, the funding is very well established, so i think it is a matter, in many instances, community education to get the word out. let the people know how they can get vaccines. host: we will branch this out to talk about other parts of the world, but let's get to some calls. george's from south carolina. george, you're a parent. do you have a concern, or do you

have a question about this? caller: just a concern that i have. two things. one might sound weird, but the other, about the immunizations, this is just stemming from years of people being fearful of getting immunizations due to the fact of, you know, they might get autism, the kids, you know, getting sick in other ways, but, uh, i just think when i was a kid growing up -- i was born in 1969, so i had my mmr, measles, mumps, rubella immunization, and my kids have had them. i just think this is something, you know, we need to look more into it and get these kids immunized. i mean, when you start school, you have to have your immunizations in order to go to a public school. i believething, too, it was at a basketball game in

seattle, washington where somebody has measles, and then a bunch of people from the basketball game had it. it is getting out of hand, and people need to sit down and figure out, hey, you know, we have got to get kids immunized. it is all starting to come back. polio is starting to come back also. guest: george, thank you for that question, and thank you for getting immunized and for having your children immunized. you know, you set your question was weird, but it is not at all. people do have concerns about side effects from immunizations, and i understand that. there is always a risk and a benefit to any sort of intervention in medicine that we do. but with regards to autism, that originally started with a study of a grand total of 12 children

in the 1990's, and it has since been shown to have fraudulent information, frankly, reported data that did not exist. the lead author of that study benefited financially which was not revealed until much later. subsequently, there have been studies on millions of children link of the measles vaccine to autism, so i think we have overwhelming evidence that people do not need to worry about a risk of autism from the measles vaccine. host: we have chris on the line from denton, texas. good morning, chris.

caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. hey, dr. wiedermann, i really appreciate you being on during our new where this conversation was going to go, and that is the wacko right-wingers do not want to vaccinate their kids because, you know, something illicit in the vaccine. let's talk about illegal aliens invading our country. will you talk about it? are they vaccinated? and i appreciate it. host: do you know the answer to that question, doctor? well, i do not know exact figures of vaccination rates of people in this country who are undocumented. the vaccines here in the u.s. are widely available and free of charge, so they do have access, and i certainly don't want to -- you mentioned "well go right

wing" and things like that. i really want to stay away from labels here. i think -- virtually all of us have the same concerns. we want what is best for our children, and if that is where we are starting, we have got a lot of common ground. we do not need to label different groups, in my opinion. host: let's go to mike in maryland. mike is a parent. you are on with dr. bud wiedermann. good morning. caller: i have two things. you can fight polio vitamin c, i thought. vitamin c helps with deficiency in the immune system. about question is measles, don't all boosters last about 10 years? so we need to focus on the working class, the adults who are in close proximity with each other. they are the ones who might spread it more directly than

children. wouldn't you agree? and vitamin c needs to be given to children to prevent immune immune kompromat immune compromi sation? guest: we certainly want kids to have good nutrition, which includes vitamin support, but no evidence that vitamin c per se or high doses of vitamin c have a role in preventing measles. of them in aevels can prevent measles. in terms of boosters for adults for measles, i am glad you asked

that. that is a key question. some diseases, like diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, do require boosters every 10 years, but the measles vaccine is so effective that the immunity with laststwo doses actually into adulthood, so we really do not need to get booster doses of the mmr vaccine. host: here is an article, dr., in the "new york times." it talks about measles not just in this country but moving around the country, and it says "scientists thought they had measles cornered, and they were wrong." there is a picture of ukraine, rosh hashanah, which attracts tens of millions of orthodox people year. it goes on to say the measles on to affectgone

threatening to tarnish what has been a signature public health achievement. serious problems in other parts of the world, as well, right? guest: absolutely. ukraine, along with other countries, have had serious outbreaks of measles, ukraine being the worst. that is an example where an un immunized person goes into the setting and come back to the u.s. of measlesion period is about 12 days or so, so they can come back, still be healthy, go back into a community, develop contact with more unimmunized individuals, and we have an outbreak right there. host: and you mentioned the challenge of travel -- guest: yes.

host:. that can cause problems guest: the world'swell, smaller now. it is easier to go places and do it quickly, so you can go and come back, and maybe, like depending with measles, the incubation period, depending on how long your stay is, you may get sick in another setting, you make it on the rain, or you may not give until going back -- get sick until going back. measles is contagious for days before the rash appears. the individual may not even realize they are dealing with something as serious as measles. host: we have a doctor writing and, his name as well and "dr. wiedermann, can you give more information about immunity, particularly for

middle-aged and older persons and had measles when they were young?" guest: that is a great question. as we age, eventually our community starts to drift down a little bit. we do not quite know the answer yet during the studies have not been done. what has been done with the folks born in the 1940's, the late 1950's, what does their immunity look like now? for the most part, we think it is lifelong immunity. host: jack is calling from davenport, iowa. good morning, john. caller: good morning. i have three questions. should migrants who present seeking asylum at the border automatically be required to get vaccinated prior to release into the united states and not be released until the vaccination is effective? and how long does it take until the vaccination becomes effective? because that affects how long

people would have to be restrained prior to release. host: thanks. doctor? guest: ok. i certainly cannot speak to immunization policies per se, but i hope anyone entering this country would have access to basic medical care that would andude access to vaccines, that is regardless of migrants at our southern border or any other situation. takes a fewvaccine weeks to kick in before our immune system response and develops antibodies. i will, along with that question, because of all of the measles cases internationally, it is actually recommended now for children as young as six months of age who are traveling abroad that they actually get a

measles vaccine, although it does not work as well until 12 months of age. asis now recommended that young as six months they would get immunized if they are traveling abroad. host: one quick medical question from joe via twitter, once you get measles once, you do not get it again. is that true? saying in, we have a medicine, never say never or always, but i do not know of any credible cases where someone has gotten, developed measles twice. there are nuances in compromise patients and things like that but not so much getting it twice. go to bill in illinois. bill is a doctor, on with another doctor. good morning. caller: good morning. part of my question another caller asked.

i was born in 1941 and had a bad case of measles in 1946. my wife and i were just talking effective about how having it would prevent you this many years later, but you partially answered that question with another caller. but my other question, the early measles vaccines that people received, are those people, if they are still alive, are those adequately protected? time, perhaps 50 years later? uh, thanks for that question, bill, and for the nonmedical people viewing the show, bill is probably referring different versions of the measles vaccine, in particular an early one that did not work

as well. now, that was not around for very long, so there are not many thate around who received vaccine, and hopefully people who did receive the vaccine livemately receive the measles vaccine version, the current one. i am not sure anyone who only have been killed measles vaccine, what they have now. tot: i want to take you back the county, that we understand issued -- has

guest: public health authorities have to make a determination based on, you know, the level of activity, the type of community, areas where people might congregate, so certainly i can conceive of situations where do this sortt to of thing, but i cannot really comment weather, you know, this is or is not appropriate for rockland county. host: let's move on to terry in florida. hey, terry. caller: good morning. i want to first commend you guys and thank you for the great work that you do, you know, at "washington journal," c-span. you guys do great work. and i want to thank dr., too,

for coming on and informing us during our will be quick about it. could tion is about this possibly be a form of measles that mutated or a new resistance to a hybrid form, something like that? and my second question is i saw your map earlier. it is interesting that most of the outbreaks are in, where the three major airports are on the west coast and on the east coast and atlanta, i am sorry, georgia, atlanta, where the third major airport is that. and that is also where the cbc is located at. could you comment on how the cdc is dealing with this, too? and thanks again, and i really

appreciate everything you are doing. host: some of the largest airports in the united states are in those states. guest: yes, very interesting. thank you, terry, for those questions. first of all, a great thought about the virus measles and self mutating. regularly with another vaccine-preventable disease, influenza or flu. virustually, the measles does not seem to have mutated. there are different strains around the world. in fact, sometimes you can figure out where someone, where originates strains from the world, but no evidence so far that it is mutating to the extent that it is invading the vaccine somehow. in terms of airports, very interesting. of course, that the us airports are going to be where the most travelers are. there have not been any of the linkedks recently

specifically to an airport, that i am aware, but those are large population centers, and that is exactly the place where you will see these spread outward. the cdc is very active in surveillance of measles, along with many other things, and coordinates a lot of the states, health departments, and local health departments in gathering a tremendous amount of data and investigating outbreaks in individual cases they occur. our guest has been dr. bud wiedermann, a specialist of the children's national health system. thank you for your insight this morning. guest: thank you very much. host: we have a half hour left of the "washington journal." we are back after a short break. we will have our spotlight on magazine segment. we will talk with elizabeth zach, who writes for a publication called "in these times." and it is a discussion on why the r irs does not do the taxes

for you. a politician here who talks about efforts to get president trump's tax o returns. take a look. [video clip] >> do you think president trump should give his tax returns? rep. jordan: no. if he wants to, fine. it is up to him whether he makes them public. what upsets me is the fact that you have leaders in the united states congress, for political reasons, trying to force the irs to make public an individual, and american citizen's taxes. >> it is six years' worth, and they have sought it from the treasury, using a 1964 law. do you think what they are doing is legal, and you think it will

ultimately get their hands on the tax returns and when? "washington journal i think when you -- rep. jordan: i think when you have people in the congress for political reasons you were trying to get somebody's tax return, that is not good. and i think it should scare everything will american that this is where the chairman, chairman neil wants to go, but frankly should not surprise us. it was only a few years ago when the obama administration systematically and for sustained period of time targeted people irs.ghout the the inspector general did the investigation and said yes, they afteroing conservative groups around the country for their political beliefs. so it should not be a surprise that democrats are doing it right now, i guess, because they have done it before, but it does not make it right. i think it is a scary thing. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: we have a guest out in sacramento, california this morning, elizabeth zach, a staff for the role community assistance corporation and also a contributor for "in these times." elizabeth zach, the headline in your piece is "why the irs does not do your taxes for you." you begin with a woman named jill young out in california. why don't you begin by telling us the story about jill young? guest: sure. jill is a state worker in california, a single mother of two. our kids are both teenagers, just about out of the house. on paper, it would appear that jill earns a pretty decent living. she come up by her own admission, however, lives paycheck to paycheck, and she files her own taxes every year, or actually get a return

refund of about $5,000. there was a time when she was furloughed, 2008, during the economic downturn, and adjusted her withholdings so that she could get more money back, and about that time, she was getting a refund of about $8,000 and $9,000, a substantial amount of money. she talked with me about the anxiety that she feels around 500 taxes. she uses one of the software packages, either from h&r block or turbotax, as it is called, made by intuit, but she has a lot of anxiety surrounding filing taxes in part because her father, about 30 years ago, 40 years ago, was audited. it created a large problems in her family. there has been a move from washington state to california. some paperwork was lost. it was an honest mistake that he

had made on his taxes, but it created such trauma for her that it continues for her today. story, and jill's that is how i opened my story. the larger issue, why the irs does not do your taxes for you, get to the point of the irs and the tax lobby. explain what is going on and how you got interested in this particular topic. what are you saying about the tax lobby and tax preparation each year ? ? guest: well, there is a consortium of sorts. intuit is part of this liberty moreh&r block as well, for than a decade, actually a decade and a half, has lobbied congress to essentially prevent the irs from offering a free tax filing, their own software. sound on the face of it, this idea of having the irs do our taxes for us, i could

imagine it strikes fear in the heart of many americans, but there is precedent for this. other countries have done this. in the united states, the average taxpayer pays about $110 if they do not go to a cpa or a tax advisor, and they spend up filing theirs taxes. so the basis of this story is how did it come to this? congress requires us to pay our taxes. fair enough, but why do so many americans feel compelled, and they have to solicit a private taxes?to do their we deal with other federal agencies not having to do this, for instance, social security, that have any dealings with social security, we deal directly with the agency, why is it so complicated with the irs? host: the phone numbers are on

the bottom of the screen. we will split the line three ways. if you file your taxes, use this line, (202) 748-8000. if you using tax service, (202) 748-8001. all others, (202) 748-8002. , whouess is elizabeth zach is in sacramento, california. how much do we know about the lobbying effort of these companies, intuit, h&r block, and others, how much money are they spending in washington each year? guest: millions. and i wrote about this in the tease. in the early 2000's, there was a professor of your, professor brinkman, who i quote rather specifically, and i talk about this as well, he championed this kind of, you know, you see your tax filing program that was eventually taken up by the california franchise tax board whereby california residents can

pay their state income tax directly, directly dealing with the franchise tax board, and it was very positive, very popular. it has not been publicized. and i was talking with professor brinkman about this, why has it andbeen publicized as much, it is partially because of this tax law that has lobbied state representatives to vote against this kind of reform. ont: you said seven hours average, maybe $110 for folks. there was a tax reform bill that congress had promised, and part simplicity.se was guest: it has not happened yet. host: what happened to all of that? guest: it has sort of just fallen by the wayside. when president obama did try to

push through some reforms, never passed any legislation -- the congress at this time never passed any legislation. when i talked with professor man about this, he said he tax filing lobby is too strong. you also have on the other side, and i did not get into this so much in the article, but what i found rather curious was anti-tax advocates, grover norquist, for example, and others like him, they are federalto simplifying tax filing. when i first heard about that, i said that is kind of on, but the professor bankman explained to me, is they hate the government, and what better way to make you hate the government, too, is to make you hate your taxes, because they

are so complicated. host: our first call is from janet calling from independence, missouri. janet files her own taxes. good morning. caller: good morning. i will try to make this brief. i can barely at two plus two, but when they give you the taxes for dummies online, you can file your taxes. supposedly i am getting a refund from the state and the e feds, which i usually do. i try to keep them down, because i do not want a huge refund. i want the money through the year. well, i file in early february, and i finally called the state, and they said we have not received your return, and i checked back, and even though the software had told me yes, everything is good, there is some kind of an error. well, i am trying to figure out

now we are the ever is, but they do not actually show you the federal form where my air is, i am having a heck of a time finding where it is h&r block is nott letting me talk to their tax people, only their software people. anythingcannot say about the state taxes, but in terms of the federal and the irs is something i touch on in my story. the irs has been so maligned and so defunded that, no wonder americans are so frustrated with the agency, especially during the government turned down earlier this year, the government shutdown earlier this year, americans expressed -- there was an audit that was going on that when on just before the shutdown, and americans expressed deep

frustration with the technology, and this is partially because their technology has not been updated in the last almost half entry. it is no wonder that americans are frustrated. host: let's go to gym in enterprise, alabama. jim, you use a tax service. can you tell us which one and how your taxes get prepared? caller: i use a cpa. host: ok. caller: but my question is -- why can't we go to a 10% national sales tax and do away with all these stupid regulations from the irs? host: so a tax policy question there, elizabeth zach. is that something you want to take? guest: that is a little beyond the scope of my article, but i do sympathize, in a sense. average american to understand the tax code, to understand changes that have been made in the last year. you are penalized if you are unaware of these changes. it is an awful lot to ask, and again, i sympathize with the

caller in that sense. host: you write in your piece about this entity called the free file alliance. they struck a deal with the irs in 2002 to offer the company's on thee software i condition that the free file alliance would help. they said -- guest: i spoke with professor bankman about this, and his point of view is this is payers'ely a tax the rights issue. when they show you the form,

what numbers they have, don't you want to know what they have when you are paying your taxes? why isn't that the private industry has gotten involved in this issue. they are putting congress and a headlock. house ways ande means committee moved to codify this. the irs cannot back out of this agreement. host: at the same time, senator elizabeth warren, who is running for president, has come out with a proposal to immediately do away with the free file system and come back with a free return system, that the americans see a expected tax return, to save up to 225 million hours and $2 billion in costs for help of preparing taxes. goyou think that will sa anywhere?

guest: it is hard to say. she has been voted down before. these tax-related issues, they are often built into these soious appropriations bills, there might be thumping attractive to the representatives in one part of the bill, but there are other aspects that might be overlooked. part of the aspect with the free file alliance. host: let's get some more caller s. in alabama.n tell us go ahead. , emma. my son is a cpa, but he company, so he has at home,ne my taxes

and he failed to tell me that it might come through the mail. well, i throw my junk mail away. what do i do? how long do i wait to get it back? host: let's hear from elizabeth zach. how toi am not sure respond to that. i think i would go back to the cpa. from cecilia is calling connecticut. go ahead, please. good morning. i am in the process of filing my taxes. each year, i get some money back, because i pay monthly. this last year, i think it is failed to say -- fair to say we paid 8.3% less, because there month where we had no government. if there was no government, we should pay no tax on that month. thank you. host: thank you. ch, how does this

work in other countries? you say some folks can file the taxes in as few as five minutes in some other countries. can you do a comparison for us? guest: yes, i think that was estonia. another example is sweden, where swedish taxpayers will get simply a text message, they can look over what the government suggests to them, what they should oh in taxes, and they can either say yes or no. to liveny, i happened in germany for 16 years, so i am more familiar with the tax system there, germany's similarities with the american tax system, an important distinction is that the working poor do not pay income taxes. that is something that has never come up here in this country. it is something -- i make the point pretty clear in my article and in my own research, that it is upon every citizen, but for the working poor, it is

particularly onerous, with the time and the money that they have to pay to have their taxes filed. ag read thlso idea o a free field tax return, yes people can just check a box or check a note last another example of socialism, some are making the argument. guest: yes. i would go back to this argument , and joe young also pointed this out, if the government presents you with the numbers that you have, you would at least like the option to have that service, and then you would have that option of saying yes or no, and then if you disagree with what the government has sent you, then you can go to a private vendor or a cpa and have them help you with your taxes. host: we are talking about the tax lobby and the irs. our guest, elizabeth zach, is a write. r. good morning, john -- or james. caller: i have been audited

twice. i am 84 now. the first time, i graduated from college and only worked half a year, pay to five dollars in taxes and was audited. office, go into the take a day off of work, and it was ridiculous. had, i had athey there was as, and tornado, i believe, that blue gravel onto the car and dented the paint. you have to sand the entire car and repaint it. i estimated the cost instead of getting a professional estimate, and they objected to that. i actually went to the estimater to get the estimate, and it was double what i claim. host: james, do you have a question for our guest? caller: the other time i was

took all of my 401(k) and took that out of the 401(k), and at that time, you could -- do 10-year averaging. they sent me a bill for $58,000. host: james, let me jump in if you can hear me. do you have a question for our guest? hire a yes, i had to professional accountant, $600, it cost me. it seems to me that the irs people are idiots. they do not really understand the law or something, because they don't do things correctly. host: thanks you, james. a general comments about the irs. anything you want to say? guest: as was said earlier, i think with congress defunding the agency, it has created

problems like what the caller has described. host: susan, massachusetts, good morning. caller: good morning. host: hi, susan. caller: hi. with twoing in questions. one, your guests spoke about the high rate of pay. i went to an h&r block facility, and one year they charged me $498 for a social security, plus papers, of other income and i thought that was quite high, for, you know, a charge. methe second year, they cost -- charged me $375 for the exact same paperwork. my other question is my daughter went alone this year, as an adult, to have her taxes done. she went to a preparer, a regular outlet preparer, and

left there with a credit card with her return on it. in,they said oh, just go get your returns, go into any bank. well, she could go anywhere with his debit card. to aiterally had to go larger city to try to get the money from her return, and every time she was to use that credit card, they charged her an amount ok, but shelars, had to take a minimum of $30 each time and no more than $100. host: susan, let me jump in for you as well. a specific question for our guest. caller: that is the question. where did these debit cards come from, and how are they approved? my daughter was looking for a

regular paper return through the mail, and the issuer gave her this debit card and said "your return is on that." guest: i have never heard of these debit cards. i cannot speak to that. but the earlier point you made about the different fees you paid at h&r block, they are arbitrary. i went to their services once myself, so i can understand where you're coming from. the other point related to this, and i bring this up in my not say whatdo income bracket you are in, however, largely lower income people, let's say they can claim the earned income tax, child tax credit, these people very often use these services, and they have to pay these fees to have their taxes prepared for them. and whatever credit they end up getting ends up going to pay these fees. so it is arbitrary, and as i

said, it is largely onerous on lower income americans. host: a couple of folks on twitter are getting into the question of the so-called free tax services around the country. we have been hearing from cpa's and h&r block and others who prepare these taxes for money. what is the reality out there of these free services? guest: they are not free! [laughs] host: that was my next question. give us the details. guest: this would come up again and again when i talked with people who used these services. they are advertised for free, and of course the tax lobbies congress, called the free file alliance, you end up paying. about herll young experience, and she was paying $110ere between $80 and for filing, and i asked, well, what are those for?

clout sturridge. -- cloud storage. service to review the return before she sent it in. it is rather arbitrary. you do not find out until you use the service. host: let's go to chris here in washington, d.c.. good morning, chris. you file your own taxes, correct? how do you do? what do you use? caller: that is correct. i am pretty old-school. i do a paper filing. it helps me understand what is going on much better. my question for your guests is what do you think of the idea of the irs issuing returns a little bit later in the calendar year to give the irs time to match the information reporting that comes into it in january and february, so that they could come up with a prefilled tax thern, where it is based on

information uploading that they have received from third parties what they think your tax return should look like, and then having the option to accept or modify. guest: yes, yes, i support this idea. and just based on my own reporting and talking with professor bankman and also professor jeremy, a friend at the new york university, this would make sense. host: why does it make sense? explain the longer-term benefit of that. guest: well, if the government is preparing these numbers for you, they have the data already. from employers, financial service providers about what dividends you have earned through the year, so they have these numbers already. where is the problem -- wouldn't you want to look at those numbers yourself and to know what data the government has on you? host: let's go to robert. robert is in california, one of our last couple of callers here.

go ahead, robert. caller: first off, our wages are exempt from taxation. that is why they have the word "exempt" on withholding. you can only tax profit again, because money you earned is your property. you earned that money. income is something that somebody gives you. the irs can penalize your wage, but what they are doing is they are penalizing the right to labor, and that is what they are doing, so the word "income" does not mean dollars and cents, when they ask "how much income to you earn?", that does not mean dollars or cents. income is a verb that means higher than zero. it is like a markup. host: ok, robert, thanks. zach.eth

guest: [laughs] i can appreciate the semantics. host: let's go to another caller in san antonio. joe, you file your taxes yourself. tell us about your process, joe. caller: well, i have used a number of the free online , and it is a third-party, irs.gov, they do not do it themselves, offer it themselves, it is a third-party, and they are free. i have been using them for over 10 years. host: so you do not get additional charges, joe, to review your for? no, you only have to pay that if you want the extra services and if you want to keep your income tax on file, and heaven for bid anybody wants a third-party to keep a copy of their income tax on file. but no, there are no fees whatsoever. people do not file long

forms, so they use what we used to call ez file for free. my brother is a good example. family, and he files very simply every year. a layer ofou see encryption for id theft, which is probably needed, all of the harbor stories about people getting their federal income tax stolen or rerouted. another thing is, the government does not prepare your taxes. you do. you do this by choosing a good tax preparer. i mean, they get your totals, your income for the year and your rate of taxation that you provide the exemptions. you really are in the driver's seat with the income tax. host: thanks, joe, for calling. elizabeth zach, anything there you want to respond to? guest: yes, it goes back to what i said earlier.

why is the irs -- why is upon us to hire a private vendor, a private tax preparer for us to interact with this agency? you do not do it with social security. why do we do it with the irs? host: back to your piece, why does the government make filing your taxes intentionally difficult, do you see anything changing? guest: you mentioned senator elizabeth warren. she has been a strong proponent in simplifying tax filing. it remains to be seen. host: elizabeth zach is in sacramento. she is a contributor for a obligation known as "in these times," also staff writer for the rural community assistance corporation. thank you for your time this morning. guest: my pleasure. host: appreciate it. thanks for all of your calls as well. will be back tomorrow, sunday, for another edition of "washington journal." we are here every morning at 7:00. enjoy the rest of your day. [captions copyright national

cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] c-span,today on interviews with members of the house of representatives. road to the white house coverage live at 2:00 p.m. as democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio launches his campaign in youngstown. at 9:00 tonight, clarence thomas talking at pepperdine university in california. at 9:30, president trump's remarks in las vegas. q&a, historian douglas brinkley talks about his book american moonshine.

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