later the co-director of brown university's cause of war project. ♪he discusses the u.s. good morning and welcome to "washington journal." special counsel robert mueller's report has been released in redacted form, anddemocrats havo make. let voters decide in the 2020 election? we will open our finest hours democratic viewers first. what do you think leaders should do now that they have the mueller report?

once again, this question is for democrats only, and we will open the lines by region today. if you are a democrat in the central and eastn time zone, call (202) 748-8000. if you are a democrat in the mountain or pacific time zone, call (202) 748-8001. and keep in mind you will always reach us on social media come on twitter @cspanwj, or on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. remember, this first question is for our democratic viewers only, but we are not forgetting about the republicans. we will open lines to the republican viewers later on in the show, but right now, this first question is for democrats only, so keep that in mind jersey "new york times" laid on the issue in their story april 18. damming evidence yet as closer thursday to confronting a

western they have long tried to avoid come whether the president impeachior warrants appeared although the report found insufficient evidence to conclude that trump conspired nstraints preventing mr.e an confronting mr. trump with a structure, it had damming behavior that democrats left it up to congress to review. congress may apply the laws of the powers of office accords with the constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law, mr. mueller wrote in the report. house democrats took that legal analysis of a clear not that congress should take the next step to make its own judgment. although republicans disagree with that view. the question is how democrats

will proceed. let's go to barney, who is calling from florida. party, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. i think the democrats should go ahead with the impeachment process, and ong ane thiut the democratic party, it seems like they scared. they scared to carry out the law. i do not understand why the get thes -- we already blame come oh, the democrats should not i impeach. look what they did to hillary clinton, liquidated to bill clinton. host: like you said, when the and peace bill clinton, they ended up losing the next election. that may be what they are worried about, if they impeach trump. are you worried about that? caller: after that year, they wo

aseats, the republicans won bunch of seats with the tea party. don't tell us we are supposed to be scared. is about the united states. it is not about a seat. the man is corrupt. are we going to back down off of that because of a seat? because of a vote? like reverend wright said, god bless america, thenmned america. host: let's go to alex and washington, d.c. good morning. caller: i am all about the impeachment. i want to make sure we have all of the ammunition we need to to make sure we go forward and we do not just do this and kind of, like, not be able to get all the way. are you concerned about any possible blowback? pretty obvious right now that the republicans

in senate do not seem to think impeachment is rented and probably -- warranted and it.ably will not vote for are you concerned about blowback on the party is impeachment is not go through? is a goodthink it idea, and if it does not go through, maybe it will help us in the 2020 election. jim, who isgo to calling from clarksburg, west virginia. jim, good morning. caller: good morning. i think they should absolutely start impeachment proceedings in congress. and after they do that, and when ify kick it to the senate, the senate does not go forward, 22 republican senators coming up for reelection. get out and vote, people. vote these -- if republicans do what congressck

does with impeachment -- because trump is clearly guilty, then voting is the answer. remember -- 22. 22 republican senators are coming up for reelection. thank you. host: house judiciary committee chairman jerry nadler was asked on thursday whether he thought impeachment was on the table, and here is a quick statement from jerry nadler. [video clip] r: that is one possibility. there are others. we obviously have to get to the bottom of what happened and take whatever actions seems necessary at that time. it is too early to reach those conclusions. it is one reason we want the mueller report. we still want the mueller report in its entirety. we want other evidence, too. suites fromlook at our viewers. if you feel you want to waste a lot of time, money, energy, etc., have at it.

robert boatright tweets "investigations bring charges against those presidents. do not teach. -- if congress doesn't do its job and impeach trump now, it is virtually guaranteed that the united states will not have a free and fair election come november 2019. loretta, good morning. what do you think democrats should do with the mueller report, now that they have it. caller: i think it has to be investigated, and i think the really sad part of it is why it has become such a partisan issue when the report is straight across the board. did not think mueller put it out one way or the other way.

i think he thought, he had no proceeding any further with it, so now it is up to the congress as a whole, the senate, the congress, to pick up the ball. it is your ball, play it. that is how it is. are youw, loretto, worried about any blowback from voters and democrats approach impeachment and it does not succeed? caller: i do not think you have a right to worry about that. as a, democrat, er to defend, you know, the united states against any and all. thehave to defend constitution, the laws. there is not a choice of whether it is going to have blowback. let's go to avoid, who is

calling from, florida. roy, good morning. caller: yeah, i think trump impeach be i right away. he is a dictator. he has locked kids up in concentration camps, he is a dictator. he needs to be taken care of. i cannot believe the republicans still wanted this guy injury if haves clinton, he would been drug away with handcuffs. he has gotten away with everything in this presidency. he has abused the power, abused the people, and it is just ridiculous. he needs to be impeached right away, so we can get our country back, and all of the republicans in the senate, shame on you, because you will not get lowing right to defeat. follow donald right into the water, because that is where you are going.

there are republicans fed up with that senate. host: roy, did you see enough in the mueller report that you think democrats have enough leverage to actually succeed on an impeachment charge against him? caller: yes! yes, it is right there in the report. they are just not naming him, but they are leaving it out there. if we do not impeach him, our country will go down. he is going to do even more in the second term. i cannot believe we are having this conversation. i really can't. he should be impeach right away before he ruins this whole country. who iset's go to ray, calling from cleveland, ohio. ray, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. ray, what do you think democrats should do now that they have the redacted mueller report? should they wait and see if they can get the entire report, or should they move ahead with impeachment hearings, or should they not impeach at all? caller: well, if they wait, they

may not have a country the next two years. it is just that sithis guy has e could to just boo-boo all over the constitution. what are we talking about? if it had been obama or anybody else, he would have been gone. this guy has been lying ever since he has been in office, so what are we talking about? what in the hell are we talking about? thank you. even if you move ahead with impeachment in the house, the senate does not seem likely to move ahead with an impeachment vote. what do you think the democrats should do in the senate to convince the republicans to take of the vote? caller: well, the senate needs to get some balls and find some backs and follow the law care what makes it good

for him but nobody else? the guy is breaking the law all over the damned place. i can't understand that. host: let's go to marlene, who is calling from new york. marlene, good morning. caller: good morning. host: what you think democrats should do now that they have a redacted version of the mueller report? caller: i think the democrats should be very careful. we are going into an election time. i think they should allow people to go and vote him out. they should be extremely careful. they will not make it through the senate. they are going to lock them. we are going to waste a lot of time. aboute to do something health care, do something about infrastructure, do something for the people while they are continuing oversight. push thisd not impeachment and yes, he is despicable, and he is doing everything wrong, but the people should get out there, we can vote him out. go to the polls at election time. host: so, marlene, are you

concerned about the american voter turning against the democratic party as they -- if they push ahead with the impeachment? caller: i think the republicans are so strong, they do not care what he does. they plan to support him all the way, and we should be very careful how we do this. host: let's go to petty, who is calling from virginia beach, virginia. bett, good morning. caller: good morning. happy passover and happy easter to everyone. i think they have to do some investigating, but i heard elizabeth orin on the rachel -- elizabeth warren on the rachel maddow show last night, and she said on principle, she believes in the impeachment. i agree with her. yes, there might be some blowback, but republicans are not going to take them out, even if they go through with it in the house. somebody like if

commits a crime and they say well, we're not going to have a trial, because we do not think the jury is going to convict you know, it might be blowback against the republicans for not, uh, for not, um, if they do not get rid of him, there could be blowback for them, too. he can't be indicted, they said, so he has to be held accountable some kind of way, and this is the only way. he is the most despicable person and the worst president we ever had, and elizabeth warren is not my favorite candidate. i favor joe biden, who is getting it. harris,eto, and i like, and i like mayor pete. i will take anybody over this jerk. host: let's go to antonio who is

calling from san diego. good morning. what do you think democrats should do now that they have the redacted version of the mueller report? reading theve been report myself. it is a dry read. i am no attorney, but there is that mystuff in there feeling is, morally and legally, the democrats have to move forward with this. blowback, there is no option. the option is, what, look, i might not get reelected? we have to stand up for the rule of law, and this guy has got to go. he is as dirty as the day is long. this guy does not belong there, and of course the republicans are not going to go for it, but there has got to be 60% of the country that are decent people,

and i think, in the long run, the republicans are going to be the ones that pay for this. they sided with the wrong side. house speaker nancy pelosi wasn't all fast, ireland yesterday. here is her first on camera reaction to the robert mueller report. [video clip] speaker pelosi: let me reassure assure you that whatever the issue and challenge that we face, the united states will offer its oath of officeconstitd states, to protect our democracy. we believe that the first article, article one, the legislative branch, has a responsibility of oversight of our democracy, and we will exercise that. host: other democratic lawmakers are also reacting to the mueller report. here is representative steny hoyer on his first statement on impeachment. have the full report and all underlying evidence in order to determine what actions may be necessary to

ensure that congress and the american people have all the info they need to know the truth and all options are to remain on the table to achieve that objective." let's go to mark, who is calling from florida. mark, good morning. caller: good morning. host: what do you think democrats should do, mark? it is time that would move on, get past all the bull, and start taking care of the country. how embarrassing we look to all of these countries if all we are doing is going after trump. let's fix the country. let's fix immigration, health care, and really get back down to real business rather than the country fighting against each other. we are embarrassing ourselves to all the other countries. host: so you think that democrats should just move on to congressional legislation and

let voters decide in 2020? caller: exactly. you know, all this is is a bunch of drama on tv. that is it. we are an embarrassment to all the other countries. all they do is talk about how bad this is. let's just move on. let the voters decide. host: let's go to tony, who is calling from denver, colorado. tony, good morning. caller: a lot of really good calls. good morning. are you there? host: yeah, we can hear you. go ahead, tony. caller: you have had a lot of really good callers this morning, people raising a lot of concerns, but you have already noted the senate is not going to confirm and impeach, so it is not going to happen. an impeachment will not happen. you say people talk about legislating and voting them out. voting them out is absolutely critical. i do not think anybody who is calling in this morning once you see a situation where -- wants a situation where he's is

in another term. our best approach as a party is maybe call a special session of congress, we highlight, we get some of the best speakers in the that and draw out the idea republicans are breaking down the democracy. they will not support impeachment. they have the attorney general, who is now acting as his personal attorney. our democracy is in danger, and so our first step as a party is to take the mueller report and read it verbatim into the record. hours to have people step up in the party and read it into the record, being covered by c-span, you know, there for the public to see and hear this out loud, maybe that starts to draw attention to people that our democracy is in are

reading a terrible report about the president into the record of the congress, and we need to vote him out. but the republicans need to be aware that they are damaging our democracy. so that may be our best approach, is kind of a shaming effort of the republican party, and maybe that will help our efforts in the 2020 election. it will motivate the democrats to get out and vote. so that is my thought as a middle ground. host: once again, i want to remind everyone that we are taking calls from democrats only at the top of the hour. once again, democrats, if you want to call in, if you are in the eastern and central time zone, that is (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain and pacific time zones, that is (202) 748-8001. republicans, we will hear from you, too, we will open up republican only lines in the 9:00 hour. so republicans, if you have something to say about the

robert mueller work, stick around for the 9:00 hour. republican only lines then, but for now, we will go back to the democrats. let's go to louis, who is calling from marietta, georgia. louis,ood morning. caller: good morning. i have read the report, and the , "thank away i got was you, robert mueller." not a hoax, not a witchhunt. as for its easement i am somewhat ambivalent. i do not think he will be impeached. i think they should keep investigating lines of inquiry, but there is no point of impeaching him. they have to and each him to finish the investigation, because it is the only way they can get information, they should go ahead. are: louis, democrats talking about bringing robert

mueller to testify on the hill. do you think hearing it from special counsel robert mueller himself will make a difference? caller: i certainly do. i think they should bring in people to testify if they are not going to release the grand jury information and have them say it on the record. i don't think everybody will read the report. i think they should, but i think putting it on the record is necessary. host: now, louis, one of our other callers suggested the entire 400 plus page report should be read to the congressional record. do you think that should be done? caller: yes, but i would rather have the people that actually said it before say it in the record. host: let's go to steve, who is calling from richmond, virginia. steve, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i just want to say this -- i believe that we should have

impeachment, but we should have a thorough investigation, live how crooked this administration is. let's let the people see the evilness of donald trump. and william barr should be fired immediately. host: why do you think william barr should be fired immediately? caller: yes, he should be fired immediately, because he did terribly wrong to the american people. he is not donald trump lawyer. he is the ag for the american people, and he proved not to be worthy of this job. do you think attorney general william barr should have done differently? he should have been

honest to the american people. kept talking about collusion but actual conspiracy. he led the american people totally wrong all the way. to a few tweets from our viewers this morning. here is one who says "the votes are yet to be counted. the evidence can only be by hisd and advocated political peers to answer just question." american joe tweets "what next steps? the investigation shows these questions were nonsense. no one can even say what they were looking for or what would be the grounds for anything, much less each meant -- less impeachment." says "pelosi is too smart to allow impeachment, because she knows it will all but the president trump a second

term. " and another says "the mueller report was nothing but an opinion piece, 400 pages of opinions." have been writing opinion pieces about what democrats should do now that the mueller report is released. in the "washington post," greg sargent wrote this. suggested that removal is merited, because without that, an inquiry would divide the country or is not worth doing because the senate would not ever commit. this is fatally flawed. it gives republicans veto power over even the question of whether to launch an inquiry. important lake, an inquiry is not a decision whether to impeach or not, rather it initiates a long, deliberative, fact gathering process that is designed to ultimately informed that decision.

we are looking at what great sargent wrote in the "washington post" on april 19. go to jeffrey, who is calling from auburn, new york. jeffrey, good morning. caller: good morning. call.you for taking my longtime viewer, way back with brian lamb. i would like to ask the question to the viewers what would jesus do, and if you put jesus' teachings to work, would he lie, would he commit false witness, like trump has? what he commit adultery, like trump has? would he steal? would he covet? it says in the good book that it is easier for a rich man to get into the kingdom of heaven as it is for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle.

and it also says "render to caesar what is caesar's." in trump's evasion of taxes, that is an impeachable offense right there. dous called for people to for others, to do for the least of these. i think of jesus were here merican refugees, and he would be doing for the least of these, not for giving tax breaks to the rich and not for protecting donald trump's rear end, but he would be doing the christian thing, and i have got to quote one more thing. it is not from the bible, but easter weekend, and one of the previous viewers, oh, hez, when trump was elected, called c-span, and he said "i know trump is the devil, but the

devil has to come back to rule the earth in order for jesus to come back." thank you. who iset's go to tim, calling from alabama. m, i am pretty sure i got that wrong. me how to pronounce that, tim. caller: it is boligee. host: oh, i got it right! what do you think the democrats should do, tim? caller: i think democrats should try to get the full mueller report unredacted, but i do not think the democrats should try to impeach president trump. the will never get republicans in the senate to impeach him. and the other thing is, you are a running for

president in 2020. you do not need to have your in trying to when it isald trump not going to be done by the senate. run what i do think it is electedthe president, democratic president, and after that, trump, the southern district of new york, and all of the other things against donald trump could be brought into, i guess, fruition, and, uh, that will take care of donald trump. his finances will be revealed. everything that he has done will come to light after you defeat

him in a presidential election. but don't waste time with an impeachment process, like elizabeth warren and other democrats wants to do. tim, a lot of the house democrats they got elected in the last election got elected because they promised to move toward impeaching president trump. do you think their voters would take it out on them if they decide not to move forward on impeachment? theer: i -- i think once election process start, that who wants tots move forward on impeachment, i think they will lose the voters. i think the voters will not go along with this impeachment process, because they want, like the other callers say, they want health care, they want all of

the other important things, like jobs, infrastructure, they want all of those things taken care of. they are not going to win an election calling for impeachment of donald trump. they are going to win an election calling for the things that the american people needs to make this countet let's go to is calling from what to the city, arizona. now, patricia, did i get that right at all? how do you pronounce that? caller: -- oh, i got it right. i am on a roll.

what do you think democrats should do? caller: there are people starving, and let's face it, did they run an impeachment for iran-contra? did not. did they give for allowing someone into the oval office? no, they did not. did they follow through with the nixon impeachment? no, they did not. it is not like it did not happen before. history.o our you just cannot hear it now. was innot a warrior, he the place, no, you are supposed to treat every president the same. president trump would not be the first one, what he? caller: no, yeah, but they filed them.

but nothing ever went to it. whole thing cost a lot of money, a lot of money. nexen, he did not get impeached. ripped the democratic -- watergate. resign.ot to and reagan -- "i don't remember, i don't remember," on the iran-contra affair, on tv, court remember.", i don't he should have been impeached. host: what do you think democrats should do now that they have this report? caller: i think this mueller thatt, really, you can put just up against the warren commission report, ok?

say whatever to get his ass off the grill. host: let's go to sean and georgia. good morning. how are you? caller: i am good. how are you? host: good. what do you think the democrats should do? continue their oversight. let's not jump the gun jury let information come out. as they say, it is already done. but i think one of the biggest things is you know, donald trump, he loves to label people. the democrats should label him illegitimate, illegitimate donald. as accepted it a listen and help from a foreign power. he is not a legitimate president, and they should call him illegitimate donald and continue until the 2000 election. host: so do you think democrats

will have a problem with their own voters, considering a lot of them in the last congressional election would push for impeachment? you think democrats would have problems with their own voters if they cannot get the president impeached? caller: like i say, if it leads they continue down the road they are going, it leads to impeachment. if the stonewall continues, they are trying to get all of the information first, which is the first step. let's see where it goes. they are trying to get to the truth, so i do not know why the voters would look at them as saying hey, they are doing nothing. they are actually trying to get to the truth, and if it leads to impeachment, it leads to impeachment. if it does not, then the voters get to decide what we do next. ho let's go to philip, who is calling from arizona. philip, good morning. caller: good morning. , c-span. host: philip, what do you think

the democrats should do now that they have the mueller report? caller: they should ask mueller to testify first and then proceed with impeachment proceedings. is almost a moot point at this point right now, because, you know, he is so corrupt, according to the mueller report. so, you know, it is almost like they have to do it, you know, if the shoe were on the other foot, be noure there would question about it from the republican point of view. host: let's go to debbie, who is calling from everett, washington. debbie, good morning. caller: good morning. overnk there were, like, russianscts between

agents and people on the trump team. that is really serious. i -- i know he would be charged with conspiracy -- not with conspiracy, possibly with conspiracy -- but he would definitely be charged with obstruction of justice if he weren't the president. and i do not think anybody should be above the law. no one should. and i think they need to continue the investigation. i wish every citizen would read the report and just see what all is in a. -- is in it. the whole thing is a 430-something-page of an indictment of the president of the united states. it is all factual. the only thing is there are parts missing, but there have been so many people already arstill a lot of other crimes

that they are looking into, and mueller was smart enough to pass them off to other people. other places in the united states where they were in their jurisdiction. end up ind definitely jail if he is not reelected. this is really serious stuff. so they need to continue the investigation, and i think fox wacko radioht wing needs to start taking up and reading the report to the people and being honest instead of lying, as they have all these years. because it has not been the regular, mainstream media that has been lying, it has been trump. host: the "san jose mercury news" published an editorial

about what they think should happen next. here is a little bit from the "san jose mercury news" editorial. "any hope of returning to returns to congress, particularly the democrats, restoring dignity to the country, regaining the world standing as a respected leader, and honoring our history aaion s that look out for those less fortunate among us. there is one and only one way to do that. a like a president in 2020 that country the back to the moral path that we -- from which we straight to an half yearsry to run against trump or failed to recognize that it will be won in swing states far from california. if democrats in the next 16 months of sus with his teaching the president, -- obsess with

impeaching the president, they will lose again." let's get to tweets. "democrats can walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time. and expose the corruption. " "if any potus should be impeached, it is trump. process.start the if that happens, great. if not, life goes on, and history will show real americans, real patriots, a.k.a. democrats, try to protect our republic." mulder -- e

let's go to stephen, who is calling from michigan. stephen, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for c-span. know, i have been watching this ever since, i do not know how the guy got in had, i feel like our nation has just been going down to the ground, sold off every foreign interest under the sun, and these republica sat on their hands, they let him lead with the enemy, and it is like, uh, you know, you have got nothing to say? you just let this guy meet in secret for over two and a half hours? he probably gave the nuclear codes already. so, i don't know. some people are drinking

the kool-aid. they think he is the best thing since jesus christ. i don't know. never vote i would for him or any of his ilk. he is a liar. he is a coward. and he is a thief. simple as that. host: so what happens the democrats attempt to impeach him in the house, and the senate does not move forward? does it make that a waste of time? think we should start the impeachment. the guy cannot tell the truth to save his own life, let alone the rest of the country. i don't know. he is meeting with dictators, he went to korea, and he is doing anna-bet to be -- w gangnamnd kim did his style dance and kicked him out.

he got tax breaks for the rich food cuts to the poor. what kind of person does that? is that the what would jesus moment do? i don't think so. host: let's go to tina, who is calling from greensboro, north carolina. tina, good morning. caller: good morning. that the concerned media is portraying the democrats as just wanting impeachment. and i have heard you say that in the last election, that many were voted for that. andaccording to your show all the democrats were running other thansues impeachment, and so therefore that should not be anything that we are looking to do right now. i am concerned that the voting process is absolutely corrupt. greensboro, we reported that

we were voting for hillary clinton, but at the conclusion of the voting process is, our votes were changed to donald trump. what did the board of elections do? they ignored our, you know, our didms and acted as if it not happen. what is the point of saying you are going to vote out a president with the voting machines are corrupt? someone needs to check in with that. and then there are other things that we can do other than impeachment. number one, they can censure this president and limit some of his powers, because he did not become president just on one thing, you know. there is more than one way to skin a cat. the othererested in about,the media talks artificial intelligence, improvement of our lives,

education, improving infrastructure, and creating laws that will limit presidential powers and make sure that we maintain a democracy and not a dictatorship that trump -- and the republicans, it is not just trump -- and the corrupt media like fox are trying to push on us. host: what do you think democrats should do now that they have the full report? caller: they do not have the full report, so quit saying that. they have part of the report. they cannot make a decision without complete information. host: so democrat should do nothing until they get the full report? caller: that is not what i am saying. they need to get the full, unredacted report, and then you make a decision off of what you do. you do not make a decision off of partial information. it is just like going to a bank. they want to know everything. they cannot make a full, proper decision unless they have full

information. get the report, continue with the investigation, call in mueller, call in cohen, again, call in barr again. they really need to start proceedings to remove him from office, and they need to bring itaker orwhi whatever his name was, they know what was going on, and that is why they can defend this day, and we have on blinders and could not see. let's go to eleanor, who is calling from michigan. eleanor, good morning. caller: hello? host: hi, you are on the air. go ahead. , eleanor. caller: i just has a couple of things. you said that after the republicans impeached bill clinton, that they lost congress.

they did not. republicans controlled congress from 1994 until 2006. impeachment, the members of congress took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. to impeachheir job trump, whether they may lose their jobs next year, that is their oath. that is their job, is to defend the constitution. and without the constitution, we don't have a nation. leicester, whoto is calling from oregon. lester, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you today? host: i'm good. what do you have for us, lester? well, the thing

about all of this impeachment, money to domuch something to somebody like that, , you don't understand know, i think the voters should have the right to vote on this and stuff. our governmentat needs to work on the constitution correctly, and like the lady said earlier, i was listening to her. i think what is happening now -- have warren in plymouth now, which she has done. people forget about that. i always have grown up as a democrat. so anyways, i think we should have a right to vote, but instead of costing all of this money to impeach the government,

i can't shake -- we spent millions of dollars in other countries, yet we need to spend millions of dollars in the united states. and wehis point there, , i think the democrats america has forgot about america. everybody forgets that we should love each other. this is what america is about, no matter who we are and what we are. host: let's go to kim, in minnesota. kim, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i have been watching the molar thing since it started two years did and what robert mueller

was take a road map for democrats to maybe not if you but to show america what trump has done. believe the democrats are going to do the right thing. it may not be impeachment. they need to be able to cause ,rump to resign, like nixon did but what they need to do is they need to get the republicans on her side, just like what happened with watergate. i think if they can do that, trump will resign, and i think pence will probably resign, too. tweetset's look at some from some democratic lawmakers about this issue. here is one tweet from congresswoman rashida to leave, who tweeted out "doing nothing blatantare seeing disregard of the united states constitution to our ethical norms is dangerous. it is not only up to congress to

hold trump accountable, it is our job to do so. here is another tweet from representative alexandria ocasio-cortez, that says "mueller's report is clear in pointing to congress' responsibility of obstruction of justice. be signing on to rashida tlaib's impeachment resolution. and here is another tweak. -- tweet. "in times of great consequence of, let's be clear, #impeach, #muellerreport." greenom representative al , he said "days ago, i took to the floor to took to impeach donald trump.

where i stood then, i stand now. etoimpch." let's go to alana. good morning. caller: good morning. while there is no one more deserving of a disgraceful impeachment and removal than donald trump, unless the republicans get on board, it is not going to happen. ridiculously, 93% of republicans in this country still support this man. it is cold-like. i think we need to focus on getting someone else elected and trying to turn this train wreck around. it is such a -- travesty to have a man so indecent, so cruel, so corrupt, like, it has just been the craziest thing for the last few years, but i do not think appeasement will happen. i think it will make the

democrats look bad, and that is the last thing we need to do. when you get someone in there, someone of integrity like buttigieg. biden isknow if actually going to run or not, but that is where we have to focus our energy. alana, now that they have this redacted report, do you think they should investigate or move on to other issues? caller: well, i think they should continue to make this in the forefront, but i think getting donald trump out the old-fashioned way, like people to judge said -- like pete buttigieg said, electing a democrat in 2020, then let the great state of new york, the seventh district, have at him, because they will do the right thing. host: let's go to george, who is calling from sun city, california. george, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. thank you for taking my call. is,ink -- and my question to all of my fellow democrats,

we always being concerned about how bad we look? comelicans do what they do hell or high water. they do not care. it is how we look. whether we go for trump or go after him, which is what i think we need to do, because it is blatant. the lady from north carolina that called, she said it perfectly, we have to do both. you are not doing anything. for six years, they went after hillary clinton. six years. and she was not even president. they did not care how it looked. "we havearthy,, successfully muddied her chances to be president." and wean do two things, don't have -- they did not have nearly as much evidence against

hillary as they have against trump, and he is the president. they are not concerned about doing health care. so we have to do what we have to do. and vote. that is the bottom line. we have to do both. so i am not about running in a ing. and hid no, let's go after him. thank you. host: let's go to wanda, who is calling from columbus, ohio. wanda, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. we have to do the right thing, and i agree with george, it does not matter how it looks if it is the right thing to do. the man is doing things right in front of our faces, and it has to stop. hold hearings and let the american people see what is going on. host: hold impeachment hearings, or are you talking about investigatory hearings? caller: investigatory hearings is fine with me, because it

looks like the information is there. we cannot have this. our kids are watching. the world is watching. we cannot allow this to stand. i agree with george. who cares what you look like? do the right thing. if democrats do not do it, we're probably going to lose next year. host: let's go to dan, who is calling from chester springs, pennsylvania. dan, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? is, i think with all he has done, we should continue the investigations. i think we should impeach just a couple of weeks before the next presidential election. i think that the democrats have a lot of other stuff to do. i think they should continue investigating, but i think we should proceed with impeachment, but only a couple of weeks before the election, because i think that would be the smart thing to do politically and still keep the issue on the burner. and then we can put a neon

asterisk next to trump's name. host: let's go to robert, who is calling from garner, north carolina. robert, good morning. caller: good morning. i just think we need to continue investigating him. i think we need to let all of ,he report come out about him because he never did turn in his taxes, so we need to do it at the ballot box. continue to vote. that is what the democrats need to do, get out and vote. thank you, sir. host: let's go to debbie, who is calling from norristown, pennsylvania. debbie, good morning. caller: good morning. i am so concerned that this so-called president stands on the stage with putin. forgets about that. to this day, he will not admit that the russians interfered with our elections. he is doing everything possible to counteract everything that

the congress did to put sanctions on this so-called putin, he president might as well say thank you. host: let's take one more call from sam, who is calling from santa rosa, california. sam, good morning. caller: good morning. i think they should impeach him, because he will be in there for another 18 months, and he will cause too much damage. i think they should get on it right now. take a chance. it is a gamble, i know. host: republicans, stick around for the 9:00 hour. we will open our lines for republicans to hear what republicans think the next step should be on the mueller report. later today, we will be -- let's go to joe. let's get one more call in. let's go to joe calling from texas.

joe, good morning. what do you have for us, joe? caller: i've been a democrat all need to getand we back to passing bills and going on and when this election. they have-- win this election. they have already exonerated trump for russians. we are fighting a losing battle on that. we will never impeach him. i think we all need to get back together and, just like bill clinton, he did things wrong but he was an excellent president. i think we need to forget that because what the republicans are going to do, they are going to investigate comey, and all of

that stuff is looking to come out. the people investigating strom -- investigating trump will be investigating call m -- comey, and it is going to be a mess. we need to think about winning the election, and we can do it right now if we would cut this trump, trump, trump out. 150 times,h a movie you are tired of watching it. when i turned the tv on, that is all i hear, trump, trump, trump, so let's get back to the way we used to be as democrats, and let's win this election. host: let's take a couple of extra calls. carol from illinois. good morning -- harold from illinois. good morning. caller: good morning.

what is disturbing to me is the way the judicial system treats people differently. it seems like all of the evidence in the world is needed .o convict trump democrat or republican, you have to catch their hand in the cookie jar before you can convict to them. why doesn't somebody go out and rob a bank. -- bank? as long as they hand out asking -- pieces of paper asking will you give me money? they hand the same note to the person that the bank, if they handed you the money, you just wanted money and they handed it to you. as far as the report is concerned, they need to do the right thing. they need to impeach him.

may.t fall where it . host: coming up next, 20 years two gunmen claimed lives of many people at columbine. we talked to dave cullen whose account ofefinitive that tragedy. later on, we take a look at of war's expanding role in the costs of war project project. announcer: this weekend, on c-span. tonight at 8:00 eastern, a forum on integration policy -- immigration policy. at 6:30 p.m., on sunday, activists discuss the history and intersection of islamophobia , anti-semitism, and white supremacy.

and:00, george w. bush robert gates talk about governing and leadership. c-span 2:00ok tv on eastern, we take you to the san antonio book festival. at 9:00 eastern on afterwards, american enterprise institute president arthur brooks on his book "love your enemies." that's tonight on american history tv on c-span3. at 10:00 p.m. eastern on elamerica, the re work"democracy in then, sunday, condoleezza rice on the changing role of u.s. democracy in foreign policy over the last 100 years. watch this weekend on the c-span networks.

announcer: tuesday, at 7:00 p.m. eastern, live coverage from george washington's home, talking about c-span's new book, "the president's." noted historians rank the best and worst chief executives. at 2:30 p.m. eastern, book tv as live coverage from the museum with the story of kenneth ackerman talking about the president's. presidential leadership, tuesday at seven a cocked p.m. eastern on c-span from mount vernon. announcer: washington journal continues. host: we are back with dave parkland, the " birth of a movement" " columbine." 20 years ago today, two gunmen claimed the lives of 13 people.

what has been the impact of columbine 20 years later? it has been devastating. columbine was not the first school shooting, but it really changed the game, particularly in the mind of other perpetrators. eragnited a mass shooter that we have never seen anything like this before. there have been school shootings and mass shootings, but they have not gained the same kind of traction. they didn't terrify america. this really changed the game and showed perpetrators that it could be done on a mass, spectacle scale. it was much worse than the 13 murders we remember now because there were massive bombs that would have killed about 500 people instantly. at the time, it was shocking. you could kill hundreds or

thousands of people and it would ucwe realized this could be catastrophic. host: this was two decades ago, but you are one of the first reporters on the scene. id what reallysa impacted you was day two. explain that. guest: the first day was kind of what you would expect. it was chaotic, pandemonium, people running, crying, reunited with her parents, clutching. everyone clenched each other, almost trying to squeeze it out. that was what you might expect. the next day shocked me. i came back in the morning, and there was a service before 10:00 a.m.. the highs crying, school kids. especially the boys were not emoting at all. they had this blank look on

their faces, kind of like walking zombies, shellshocked. i was afraid to ask them about it at first because i didn't want to be imposing as mr. psychologist. once i did, with the first group of boys, i was astonished. they said yes, i stopped crying at 3:00 a.m. or four clock a.m. -- or 4:00 a.m.. they wanted to know why. they wanted to know if it would get better. know, and this was shocking to me, too. they had gone en masse into the numb phase. they were kind of shellshocked. i didn't know if they would get over it, and whether we would have this lost generation of 2000 kids. -- its when my thinking is painful to say this today, but up until that point, i was

really focused on the 13 murdered. starting day two, that was still tragic, but for me, it shifted to the story of the 2000 living because we couldn't do anything for those 13 people, but these kids were still alive and there was still time to save them. i didn't know what was going to happen with them. that's when i knew -- i didn't know i would be doing a book, but i knew i would be on this story for a long time. i was going to track these kids and find out what happened to them. host: the washington post reported that, since columbine, havethan 226,000 students experienced gun violence at schools. what has changed? what has changed since columbine that all of this is now happening in the united states? guest: sadly, most of the

changes have been that it keeps getting worse. these killers are studying each other. sadly, most of them are studying seeing thend perpetrators as the template. it is a false template, this idea of what they are doing. columbine is no longer in the top 10 of worst shootings, mass shootings in the united states. that is where we are at now. three of the five worst have been in the last couple of years. [coughing] the worst isk parkland. we have made improvement is -- improvement in certain area. the protocol then was to set up a defensive promoter and surround the school -- defensive

perimeter and surround the school. they surrounded the school and waited for the gunmen to make demands. that was the protocol. it didn't occur to people, what if they have no demands and just want to kill people? of -- nohat was kind one had ever done it on this kind of scale. police reacted to that and came up with the active shooter protocol, which is that you immediately run toward the sign of gunfire. cult tolly get the pickup -- it's really difficult to pick out the kid that will do this, except for one thing. most kids tell us they will do it. kids, i thinkof it is in the 80's, i have to look at my figures, but tell someone they will do it explicitly.

most of them tell people they will do it. after columbine, we learned to take every threat seriously. the kid to tell us to tell an adult. that has dramatically changed the game. unfortunately, the biggest issue of all on guns, we have done nothing. we have gone backwards. on mental health, which i think we should not use mental health because mental health is this gigantic multibillion-dollar system that we are never going to fix just because a mass shooter's. if you narrow that depression, which is what most , andese people suffer from then not just treating it but screening for it. anifests during adolescence because it appears for the first time during puberty when the brain development reaches a certain state. then, it becomes present for the

first time. that is why parents have so much trouble recognizing it. they know their kid. they have all sort -- i have all sorts of nieces and nephews that are not my own, but think o day one. i have nies and nephews and we have known from day one who they are for long time. when someone is 14 or 16 and acting depressed, the parents assume it is a stage. i know my kid, and that is their personality, but the parent doesn't realize that is not their personality anymore. or her personality. they have reached a certain point in their brain's development where whatever conditions were already present, this will be a person that will suffer with depression, probably throughout their life. this is new, but this will be with them. you are experiencing a lifelong change. apparent can be slow to recognize that.

that is what i think dilling klee bold's mom wrote her book -- dilling klee bold -- dillan wrote in her book. it is so easy to screen for depression. my family doctor uses it. it me about a minute to fill out. it is simple and effective. we should be doing that in homeroom, and every school of america. host: we are talking with author dave cullen who wrote the book "columbine" and his newest book "parkland: birth of a movement." we will open our lines on a regional basis. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, call (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zone, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. we are also opening up the special lines today, on the

anniversary of the columbine shooting, we have a special line for colorado residents. if you live in colorado, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8002. once again, for colorado residents only, (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, we are always reading on social media, on .witter, and on facebook dave, you brought this up earlier. he said there are myths that have come out since columbine. tell us about some of those myths that you have seen that moved across the country since the columbine shooting. guest: sure. first, i am looking forward to those colorado colors. i want to hear what is on peoples' minds today. i want to pause for a second. i don't even know what i want to say.

all of you out there, i'm thinking of you and i know quite a few people, that are the survivors, and i know this is a and they'reand day, hoping to get through it. they are going to have to remember it this afternoon. good luck with that. now on the myths. everybody in america knows the bases of columbine and their killers, and their motives, and what they were all about. there were t ogoths, not jocks,e brutally bullied, relentlessly, year after year, so they decided to fight back and targeted the toks in this revenge fantasy kind of turn the tables and stand up for downtroddened

and out casted kids everywhere. everything i said is complete nonsense. it came about from the media speculating and trying to figure this out way too early. in the first couple days, when we had no information on the killers, a lot of preconceptions about most of these kids being loners and outcasts, which the secret service and fbi has discredited, there is no such profile. all of that is wrong, and that is the template. so many of these killers are following it now, thinking that -- they come from that kind of world, that place, where they are also feeling like outsiders, outcast, and they can do what the columbine kids did. they can show these people, and be heard. it is a false narrative, it is a

myth. that is not what your founding fathers were about. psychopathsadistic who enjoyed hurting people and relishing seeing it. he talks about in the videos, in his journal. one of the things he wanted to do was a napalm. he documented his napalm attempts, which all failed. he had some ridiculous ideas. with a diagrams flamethrower, talking about kids -- talking about watching kids like matchsticks roaming around that's running around. he said he wanted -- running around. he was just a horrifying guy. that is who he was. he wanted to show the world how great he was.

dylan is a much more complex story. they are completely different. dylan was deeply depressed and got involved with this -- well he is a much more complex story. the point is, first of all, there is no they. they are completely different personalities and motives, but all these ideas about why they did it is complete nonsense -- are complete nonsense. i was part of that problem, and i apologized for that in the opening of "columbine." we know the truth, but it has not gotten to a mass audience. there are a couple of people that know this, but not most people. host: let's take a ce of calls. blaine is calling for michigan. blaine, good morning. caller: good morning. i was going to say something obnoxious to you but i will rephrase myself. is that theyoblems

pre-positioned their devices in the school, allegedly. vct is a playbook from the and other odds and ends. guest: what do you mean pre-positioned them? caller: they put them in the canisters.he guest: that is also a myth. caller: ok, good. guest: they carried -- they had two big propane bombs and huge duffel bags. they carried those right into the cafeteria shortly before the attack. , there were more in their cars. is, since ithing ,ctually work with terrorism

a tech nine,re is the goofy semi automatic weapon in the photograph, but it doesn't matter. stuffct is, promoting the does not stop the stuff. the only way to stop the stuff is to stop it. you can't evade -- invade people 's heads. the problem is how do we deal with his mental health stuff. these kids weren't poor. guest: of course not. caller: they lived in colorado. isn't colorado one of the gardens of eden for the whole world, supposedly? guest: i don't know what you mean by that, but there were -- they were relatively affluent. ahead and respond there, dave, to some of his

comments. guest: i'm not sure where to begin. things we have to do. for me, there are three different paths we have to hit. number one, guns. the prevalence of guns, we need to do something about that. since parkland, we are starting to. depression, that is what i would do on the mental health area. number three, the media making them the star of the wen itek whe happens. it's fine to do a deep dive into ,hem, but i don't think anyone any potential perpetrator will relish the idea, maybe 10 or 20 years later someone will do a piece in the new republic or do a documentary olk abo it. that is not what they are looking for. what they are interested in,

their moment of glory. when we plaster their name and image everywhere. i have been part of the no names movement for quite a few years. a piece forrote buzz feet on that. -- buzz feed on that. it's not never showing their image, because we need to do that, but really scaling it back. the first day, maybe use the name once per article. then, we can call him the gunman, the perpetrator, whatever, not giving him the fame and notoriety he is seeking. particularly, the image. we don't need to show the killer over and over. using it as visual wallpaper, kind of in the background, some shows on 20 years ago, they would be playing as a loop

behind me, the killer doing this over and over again. that does not help us. what the media has been doing the last couple of years, and i think parkland sealed the nail on the coffin, i'm wondering, everyone in their home right now, try to say the name of the parkland killer. hardly anyone remembers it except people in parkland or broward county of local media there is talking about them relentlessly. the were shooting in american history was in las vegas. what is the name of that guy? can you do it? hardly anyone i ask in any event i do can they answer. the media has stopped doing it. i think we lost our fascination after 20 years with these guns. parkland really changed the game further. parkland, the first victim

was the first victim in the history of mass murderers to be more famous than his attacker. were startingids to become more interesting than the attacker, giving the media another story to cover. i think that will go on now. i think we have a solution on the media front, for the most part. callingt's go to tyson, from carlsbad, california. tyson, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. host: are you there? caller: i am here. host: go ahead caller:. happy holidays to everyone. -- go ahead. caller: happy holidays to everyone. congratulations on your book. you are going to do a great justice for the history of our

youth to read and learn. i am 44 years old, and i grew up in a hollywood family. what is great about this country, i believe, is that it gives the right to game programmers, film and television producers and directors, to media free media, free for people to watch. youths,e the adolescents, and young adults, their brains are not quite developed yet, and when you put this media, this form of violent media, games, television, and films, and they watch it over ancontributed a lot to this unfortunate violence in schools. they just cannot help themselves. they believe they are in a game. they believe they are in the tv show. they believe they are in the film.

i just wanted to know what you thought about that. that is what is great about this country and the constitution. developed enough.ths are not for that.nks that was one of the big theories floated after columbine, and that's became a whole big thing. it has largely been debunked. been any never analysis that has showed the big picture. there might be something going on that we are not aware, but violence predated this. there have been violent movies for decades before any of this. as far as thinking they are in the movie, or whatever, we know that is not true. some of the people have lived through it, most of them died,

but we have some people that have lived through it. most of them leave behind a lot of writing, diaries, talking about what is going on and there is none of that unawareness. we have interviews with people close to them. the columbine killers, eric and dylan, each left a journal. eric had his for a year and dylan for two years. then, they had that basement tapes, where they decided the journals were not enough and they sat down in a talk format and discussed it. we have remarkable records of what they were thinking about. to a lesser extent, most of these people. i'm not aware of a single case where it appeared that the persons thought they were in a movie or video game, or that kind of thing. that was an interesting idea that we thought, but it turned out to not be true with these

actual people. host: let's look at the political reactions following the columbine shooting. here is what then-president bill clinton had to say, directly after the school shooting at columbine. seee saw and continue to horror and agony. we also see, in that horror and agony, the ties that bring us together as a national community. rushingce officers, toward the sound of gunfire with bravery and professionalism. the students, risking their own lives for their friends. the doctors and paramedics, summoning all of their skills under astonishing presser -- pressure. the parents whose loving concern sustained their children through that last come along night, and who would be called upon to do

much more in the days and weeks to come. moment of agony, what is best in our community and in our country. host: dave, what was the reaction from congress and from the white house, and from politicians, following columbine? guest: lets me answer that question, but first, i want to add a few things. that is sobering to hear after all of these years. one thing i was thinking as he was saying, as he was talking about the police going toward , actually,f gunfire the killers were dead before the first swat team got inside of the school. he didn't know that, so they thought they were going toward the sound goffire. that people who actually ran toward the sound of gunfire were

certain faculty and staff. a lot of the janitors, custodial staff, helped save kids fr cafeteria. one person in particular, dave sanders, a teacher, was the one adult who died that day. he died because he came out of the teachers lounge, into the cafeteria, and the first shots were right outside of the cafeteria. he raced to the cafeteria and told everybody to get down, there is shooting. ,hen, he figured out quickly and realized that is wrong, i have to get them out of here. there were more than 500 kids in the cafeteria. picture a large high school of about 2000 kids, the start of the first launch. it is a beehive of kids everywhere. saying everybody out, everybody out. there was a huge staircase on the opposite side of the

cafeteria, and there is video footage of him rounding up the kids, toward the other end, and getting them out. some of the custodial staff helped him. they saved them all. he followed the tail end of them out and got everybody dow the ee building. instead of following them, he turned around and went room to warning students and classes, until he reached the hallway and came face-to-face with the killers at the other end of the hallway outside of the library. they shot him, and he bled to death for three hours. he is the biggest hero, but there were other teachers that went room to room, too. rick long -- rich long, excuse me. and many others. i can't say all of their names,

but i want to just say something to those heroic people who had no guns or anything. dave, i've gotten to know his wife,ers very well, his and his daughters, so my heart is going out to them today. they will be there at the service so we need to thank those people. in pretty much any of these tragedies, the teachers out there before the cops -- the teachers aut before the cops. in parkland, the faculty also died saving the a big thank you to those. i'm sorry. i know some of these people. i didn't know them before, obviously, but it is very personal.

anyway, i have lost the question. trigger me. host: the political response to columbine. guest: rights. unfortunately, the -- right. unfortunately, the political response -- i heard another clip from bill clinton this weekend on cnn and i was taken back because i immediately remembered the clip. i had forgotten it for 20 years -- forgotten it 20 years ago. we will do something about guns right now and i remember thinking, "oh god, yes." were going to do something. in fact, we didn't. we h a ban that had a lot of problems because they, foolishly, named all of these models. manufacturers came up with clones of the models. toy figured out, we need

cite the identifying characteristics. there were a lot of loopholes that needed to be plugged, but the original ban had a time limit on it and expired unless it was renewed by congress. it wasn't. we have gone in all sorts of different -- all sorts of different laws passed to make it easier to get guns in the state. we have really moved backwards. the vast majority of the country wants this to happen, yet, because of the nra and their hold on a lot of the political class -- the nra claimed 5 million members, 2% of the american public. this 2% has been dictating to the 98%, for generations now. that has to stop. it's benning to change. the last geratio the midterms changed the political

imyou have a lot of politicians who were cowards, not standing up for what they believe in, on both sides of the aisle. people started to realize that this could be advantageous to do something on gun safety, but we are just getting started. we have a long way to go. host: let's go to al, who is calling from watertown, tennessee. al, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. and two orfact thing three questions. prior to the gun act of 1968, any person could purchase a the mail order process, with no background check whatsoever. do you know of any record of a 1968 --oting, prior to mass shooting at a school, prior to 1968? guest: i can't remember. caller: let me help you, no.

no, there were no shootings at schools prior to 1968, even though the weapons were readily, much more readily available than. guest: let me correct that second point. there were not. semiautomatic weapons were fairly rare in america. it was not until they were marketed much later. you could get them, but it was not a common thing. the regulations have changed, but the presence of them, you have that reversed. go ahead. caller: i don't believe that, but we will let that stand as it is. the next question is, do you know of any shooters with a functional relationship with a strong male role model? guest: of course. those from columbine, eric and dylan. on. most of them -- go

caller: very troubled relationships. guest: no. dylan had a close relationship with his dad. they were close. eric's father was a retired pilot for the air force, he was a major. of any troubled relationships they are, but what is the third one? i think we should limit people to one question, but what is the third thing? the next one was pretty much, just for the host, be aware that when you quote data from places like the new york times and washington post, a lot of times, on the mass shooting statistics, they get their information from the southern policy law center. that place has been totally

exposed host: let's try another caller and see what jerry, calling from new york, has to say. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you this morning. -- morning? i want to discuss a meaningful juxtaposition this gentleman brings up in relation to the victims and the killers. with the victims, he is more about the environmental , where they experienced something horrible and were clutching each other very scared. the next day, they were mummified, almost blank, and how that might impede the rest of ae killer was from more of predisposition, the biological side. there is an important statement in the difference. i think it is both mind, body. the way you describe the victims, it is very important.

it could impact to the rest of their life and other manifestations could result due to the environment. that juxtaposition is very important to be learned from how you described it, both sides. victims, moste people have now heard of ptsd. those are the extreme cases, although they are definitely -- there are detely pple who will suffer from those. there is a much bigger group who will suffer with flashbacks and things of that sort, who will be plagued for the rest of their lives. to therapyant to go as soon as possible. i can't stress that enough. of all the columbine victims -- and i have known all of these -- survivors, excuse me. i have known these people for 20 years, and almost all of them, if you ask them, one thing they

would do differently is go to therapy sooner. there was a principal who helped get the kids through this. he said i can't believe i go sooner -- i didn't go sooner. there are people thinking i can get through this and you can't usually do it on your own. there is really interesting data. columbine connection is the group -- i don't know if group is the right word, but the federal government set up a counseling session right inside of columbine. the woman who ran it new from day one, we are going to track our utilization in this stuff. they had great data. she said that we assumed at the beginning we would get a ton of traffic of kids. if you sort of looked at the amount of youths we got, it would track downward in a trend like that. it didn't look anything like

that. it was going up and up. it throws for six months. at the six-month point, it didn't peak and go down. it stayed relatively constant. for another year and a half. -- relatively constant for another year and a half. after two years, it started moving downward. i was really shocked. this is many years out when she told me about this. she said we were shocked, too. the count fors someone who comes in for the first time six months out or the people coming in a year and a half out, why would somebody come in after all of that time? she said, people who have tried every other possible thing finally give up and decide i will try therapy. that is most people. they say i don't need that, what

are they going to do for me? helpof them can tremendously from it. whether you go for a couple of sessions or longer, this is like my public service announcement. don't take it from me, take it from all of the survivors who tell me constantly, i wish i done that sooner and i would be a stronger, better adapted person right now. it is not just columbine its people from all sorts of tragedies. i wanted to do a shout out to chris and jenny bobby who went through las vegas together. , his wifet, went down wasshep rated from him -- separated from him. they got to therapy right away, and i met them in april, months after. i was stunned how good they were doing. i met them in las vegas when we went back with and can benefit

-- an academic group for a conference. i was surprised how remarkably well adapted they had been. they said we went to therapy right away and really worked our butts off. i have seen people who have done it and haven't. do it. that is my advice. i keep trying to not give advice, but this is what the survivors tell me. host: once again, we are talking with author dave cullen who wrote the book "columbine" and also the book "parkland: birth of a movement.

in colorado, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8002. said after columbine, you you were never going to write about a mass shooting again, but you then decided to write about parkland. what changed your mind? guest: you know what? [laughter] [coughing] guest: excuse me. how many times i've said it, in fact, i thought i was done with it. one month out from columbine, i wrote a piece about columbine gelical.a cool -- evan this story was old. i said, think on i would never have to write about that again.

i said it over 20 years ago, and i'm laughing because that is how naive i was at the time. i didn't realize -- it is -- that that columbine we just entered this mass shooter era. i don't think any of us had quite realized. , a reverends, man he was the lutheran minister out there in the littleton area. he was the great thinker that all of the other ministers, he was sort of the wisemen. , a reallyan's funeral great guy. a couple of months out, when i went to talk about it, he said he didn't want to talk about it yet. right now, this situation, everybody here in littleton trying to understand it, it is

like one of those christmas globes that you shake up and the snow settles down. you can't see anything at first when you shake it up. then, it settles down. what is really there becomes clear. six months out, we will be able to start seeing what is going on here. month later, i came back to see him and he said ok. we sat down and talked. he guided me quite a bit, ever since. understand -- nobody did at that time, but even 10 years out -- i spent 10 years on the columbine book, and then i had to do media like this. i thought i was done again, but , i still didn't see

the whole impact. i didn't realize i would become, the go to mass shooter guy that gets called after these other things happened. i kept getting pulled in by several different academic groups. my sources from the fbi and so forth would talk to me and include me in their emails with each other. i kept learning so much while being part of the conversations. , anded to write about it discovered there was always something to learn and explore, so i kind of kept doing this. i had certain rules because i had two bouts of ptsd, seven years apart, which i didn't realize was a thing. journalists can suffer from it, emts, cops who respond, all sorts of different professions. i had to come to grips with

that. i had certain rules where i would go to virginia tech with this academic group. was lasest i ever went vegas, that i talked about. i could never go back to the scene of the crime and cover it immediately, but i broke that rule with parkland because i felt like, wow, this could be the game changer. this is really different. the morning after parkland, i was working on -- working on a piece for politico. the kids were rising up and not going to accept this. i said i had to get down there and see what was going on. i flew down that weekend for vanity or fairy -- for vanity fair. i didn't plan to do a book. i had been working on a book about gay soldiers.

we agreed. i went down for five weeks, but after spending five weeks with those kids, they are extraordinary. what they were doing, and their insights into america and the political system was just amazing me. this really is the birth of a movement, i said. i need to do a book on it. we decided to do a book, and i spent a year chasing them around and writing them. i think that is a remarkable thing. the second book was completely different than columbine. it was the killers and why they did it. parkland is neither of those things. at least the grief and recovery. , the about the response kids, and what they did. grief is a part of the story, because it is there.

the kids would open up to me about the grief. it is playing a role, but is not what the book -- primarily, the book is about the driving force. set i would never do it -- i said i would never do it because i couldn't. my shrink warned me that i might not live through the third bout. had suicidal i thoughts after the second time and it got scary. i was forbidden to ever do that again. i decided to take that chance. they really healed me. my, vicarious trauma is the other term for it, i thought i was ok with it except for when there were triggers. i didn't realize i had this deep sadness and depression still in me until i spent a year with those kids. they really healed me.

remember this happy, pre-columbine dave, that i had not seen in 20 years. they healed me. i feel like they are healing america. host: as we wrap up this hour, let's see if we can get into quick questions from our colors that have been waiting for a while. we will take questions and i will let you respond to them. vivian, what is your question for dave? caller: first, good morning to both of you. to say i wouldn still like them to show the perpetrators face at least one time -- perpetrator's face at least one time so we can know them. they need to be showed. and another thing, i will make it quick. when they took prayer out of school, the devil walked o schools.nt

we prayed. they took their prayer out of their schools. they increased under president trump. let's go to mike -- host: let's go to mike calling from ohio. at our high school, my 15-year-old son was bullied and harassed, and intimidated to the point where he was so mentally distraught that he broke his finger in front of the teacher. i would like for your guest to maybe touch on the bullying being the cause of some of these shootings. until we stop the bullying, especially from teachers, i think we will continue to see, i hate to say it, things like this crop up. thank you. host: we will take one more.

hubert from indiantown, florida. hubert, you are on the air. caller: yes. i think these shootings, especially with kids, is the parenting and lack thereof. a lot of parents allow their children to get away with a lot of things, and they are not paying attention. my parents paid attention. i don't know about the rest of the parents, but these kids are out of control. that is the way i feel. parenting or the lack thereof. thank you. host: dave, bullying and parenting with mass shootings. what do both of those -- what have you seen with both of those issues around parkland and columbine? guest: sure. the bullying is a factor in the lot of these shootings. it was not -- it does not to

appear to have been a factor at columbine. the fbi and secret service reports show, not in the majority of cases, but it is much more prevalent in these killers and the general population. that is a factor of some of these kids thinking they have no other outlet. it,oesn't explain most of it isn't the entire thing. i think we do need to address bullying. i am sorry about your son. high badly bullied as a school kid. i was a gay high school kid and did not realize it. i was called fag daily. address bullying in america, because it is a horrible thing. not because it happened at columbine or because of the shooters. i guess that could be another driving factor, but we need to get a handle on bullying. it is difficult to do. there have been a lot of anti-bullying programs, and some

onit only shines more light it and some are counterproductive. we need to work on it, and it is a tough nut to crack. i don't have great answers on how to do it. we have to keep experimenting with different things. anh parenting, that is interesting idea that i hear constantly. in fact, the columbine parents were blamed more than the killers themselves. 75 or 80% of america blames them. it turns out, in their case, and in most cases, it was not bad parenting. there was no evidence of bad parenting or the kids being out of control. kids -- parents never -- every kid, think about when you were in high school, kids don't tell their parents most of what is going on or what they are thinking.

they share some things with their parents, but there is a lot going on that they are not sharing. but is an easy scapegoat, there is much more going on. the fbi studies and secret service studies of these cases have not shown that to be really a major contributing factor. host: let's go to terry calling from oakville, washington. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm from the state of connecticut and sandy hook, those little ones got wasted for no reason. is there any type of correlation between columbine, sandy hook, and connecticut. both were terrible massacres. there definitely is. in fact, the perpetrator at sandy hook studied the columbine killers and looked up to them, and cited them many times.

he was active in many online this. about colt is the wrong word, but there is a whole online community calling themselves the tcc. they really hate me. i have blocked dozens of them, every week. they hate me for exploiting the myths about -- exposing the myths about columbine. eric and dylan are seen as the founding fathers among this group. if you follow them, you go to instagram, that is the place where you will find them the most. go to instagram and search on terms like tcc or true crime community. yourself, itor will come up with hundreds of thousands of these profiles. if you look at these profiles and get a glimpse of these kids, --ht now,

the problem is, i've talked to some of these kids and they are trying to pose, act cool. they are empathizing with this fictional version of eric and dylan that i talked about earlier. the problem is, a tiny percentage, less than 1%, our actual perpetrators like adam who are talking to all of these kids and believing they really mean it and being validated. yes, this was reasonable and a cool thing to do. he is hearing from all of these kids and think they mean it. most of the perpetrators out there are studying these other attacks, especially columbine. sometimes people use a trenchcoat, they use the date, april 20. a lot of the elements eric and

dylan -- sometimes they would use the same weapons. are veryadly, they related. eric and dylan created this template that we are still living with today. it's something we have to do something about. host: let's go to edna calling from florida. edna, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. i amjust wondering, and enjoying the show, do you think that those children from marjorie stoneman douglas will accomplish what they set out to? i am really hoping for the best. guest: me, too. yeah, they are really extraordinary. i think they will -- slowly. i was kind of astounded last year, about 10 days after valentine's day, when it theened, i was talking to

hero of my group, she is amazing, and she really makes it all happened. she is junior class president, seniorcurrently the class president. can they accomplish all of this in five weeks? five weeks? we will not even have an election in five weeks. we not only need to change the legislature, we need to change the legislators. and she said,, all, the movement took generation, and i think this will take a generation. time is the first realized these kids have such a better view of this and better sp, it is a 24-hour news

cycle, but now, now, now is not realized. it is going to take election after election. strategist has talked to me about how they will have tssnsible gun and then four years, we have see results from it, something positive, where the public will see something where they are like "yeah, that makes sense." that is the model that seems most likely. they will not see one big sweeping gun bill that will change everything in america. america does not work that way. by pieceng to be piece for years, and percival, we have to get someone in congress and in the white house, of either

parties or both parties, who are committed to doing something about guns and these other issues. host: we would like to thank author dave cullen, who wrote the book "columbine," and the book "parkland: boo bertha may movement -- "parkland: birth of a movement." guest: thank you for having me. host: today marks the 20 anniversary of the 1999 columbine school shooting, one of the deadliest in history. a program includes president clinton, vice president al gore, and members of congress speaking to the public after the shooting. you can watch this program at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. now, coming up, we will take a closer look at america's expanding role in the global war on terror with stephanie savell from brown university's costs of war project. this weekend, our c-span cities tour travel to rochester, minnesota to feature

history and literary life on booktv in american history tv. or visits included a look into the creation of the mayo clinic and the city's economic development with rochester mayor kiolan. nolan: this has a really interesting history. we have been around a course for hundreds of years, but i was tyounded and the mayo clinic was founded as a result of a cyclone, a tornado that occurred. the sisters of st. francis reached out to the male family and said we need a half year to care for people and something to have in our region. rochester is known for the mayo quality,d providing economic health care. we are trying to diversify our economy, as i am sure most growing cities are, and we have a range ofite technology with ibm, and small businesses, hotel, motel,

retail. the definition is an economic develop project that was conceived after some research was done at mayo clinic that showed that people come to our community for quality health care, and while they are here, they feel wonderful about the health care but the longer they are in the city, the less they are finding to do. so the idea was as mayo clinic grows and stays in our community, we need to update our community, provide more entities, not just for visitors before employees and the citizens who live here. reform oury a way to downtown, i guess you could say, redevelop it, and reinvest our downtown area so that it is fun for everyone as well as all of the usual things you would expect in a city. >> "washington journal" continues. ont: today and our spotlight magazine segment, we will be talking to stephanie savell, who is a smithsonian magazine contributor, who wrote about mapping the u.s. war on terror. now, stephanie, you work with

the costs of war project. tell us what that is and how it started. guest: that is right. the costs of war project is a project based at brown university. idea of the project is to shed light on the hidden or unacknowledged costs on the war on terrorism. 20was founded in 2011 on the anniversary of that launched the global war on terror. host: your group collaborated with smithsonian magazine to theine the u.s.'s role in war on terror on terror. how did you go about finding this information? guest: it was quite an undertaking. when it first i thought would be a relatively simple mapping iraq, afghanistan, syria, maybe a few of the lesser-known places like the philippines and somalia, it

turned into quite a research we combed through government databases, we combed through online investigative journalism was a big source for us. we talked to experts. all kinds of different information went into this map. your so what were challenges in making sure the information that you got was correct? how do you make sure that the information you are putting in this info graphic is the accurate information? guest: it is a rigorous research process. we needed to document at least two credible sources for each part of the map that we documented, but it was quite a challenge, as you say. there are things like, for example, the map shows that the u.s. has been engaged in ground combat in 2017 and 2018, the years that the map vocus is on

-- focuses on, in 14 different countries. are things that you think about what the war on terror, like iraq and afghanistan, but also places americans never hear about, like mali, cameroon, .unisia these are places where the u.s. military has had boots on the ground and has been engaged in usually hunting down suspected terrorists and conducting raids and that sort of thing. the u.s. military is quite secretive about these kinds of activities, so a lot times, these are what are technically called train, advice, and assist mission, and it is really through the important work of investigative journalists that reveal that actually the line between train, advise, and assist in combat is quite blurry , so we were able to document places where this has happened.

in other cases, things were a forle bit clearerer, like, example, there were 26 countries where the u.s. military has engaged in counterterrorism -oriented military exercises. often included u.s. bases that have been involved in the war on terror, places where the u.s. is doing a lot of training in counterterrorism, and then seven countries in which the u.s. is engaging in strikes against militant targets. host: let's go over all of those major targets you are talking about on your map. you say there are 80 total affected country is engaged through 40 military bases, 65 counterterrorism training, 26 u.s. military exercises, 14 countries where u.s. troops are in combat, and seven air and drone strikes.

now, with this information, can you tell us what the role of the u.s. military -- how they decide what to do in which country? determining, the yang outside the military, what they are doing inside of these countries? these right, so there are zones of intensity, right, that these are the places where we are actually dropping bombs, connecting drone strikes, and that kind of thing, engaged in these combat operations that seek out military targets. those are the intense zones, and those are the places where, you know, as i said, this was a euthing,of kind of sl through detective work, it through investigative journalism what places we could categorize as combat. the air and drone strikes were a little bit more straightforward, just because there are groups, like the bureau of investigative journalism that are dedicated to

documenting these kinds of things, and then there are kind of all of the backdrops of the zones of intensity. so is particularly important category is the 65 countries. this is what kind of makes the 80 countries, and that is 40% of countries in the world, by the way. so 65 of those countries were doing training in counterterrorism. so if the u.s. military is engaged in this kind of stuff, training other countries, military and police forces, but department, so the state department does things x-rayonate vehicles, inspections equipment, border patrol equipment, and it does training. and it is also involved in a kind of wide array of what it calls countering violent extremism. these are more soft approaches,

education and things like that, to get to the root of preventing terrorism. host: i am going to open a powerful minds to our viewers, who want to talk about this issue, mapping the u.s. war on terror. once again, we will open up regionalized. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, we want you to call (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zone, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. and we are going to open up a special line again. if you are active or retired military, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8002. again, active and retired military only, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8002. and we are always reading on social media, on twitter atpanwj in on facebook facebook.com/cspan. now, stephanie, is there any concern that this map will affect the war on terror in any

shape, form, or fashion? byl this help the terrorists letting them know what is going on around the world? or is this information that is publicly available? guest: you know, i think the most important thing to think about, what we are trying to do is really get information to the american public into our vast scaleround the of this war, which most americans are not aware of, and it really prompts us to ask urgent questions that are not being asked, which is -- are we really meeting our goals with all this vast expanse of activity. are we making america safer? are we making civilians around the world safer? if not, then what would be a more effective way of doing those things? host: let's go to ron, who is calling from ferndale, michigan. ron, good morning. caller: good morning. i am a 1969 marine vet, vietnam vet.

previousto call in the caller -- er, program. problem is the whole our history of terrorism throughout the world and its blowback. this is blowback from what we have done for over 150 years. later --50 years [crying] of kids istill think killed. i am sorry. guest: i am sorry, too. i think you are absolutely right. the blowback is so important to think about here, and there has been research that shows that there are more terrorist groups in the world than there were in

9/11. because of u.s. militarism abroad, in a lot of ways, i think that it really fuels kindstment for these of groups, and people react very strongly against american bombs and american military being used am often times, in what seems like, against civilians in these places. host: let's go to john, who is calling from hot springs national park in -- actually, john, i am getting a little confused, where are you today? caller: i am in arkansas. host: ok, i thought hot springs was in arkansas. caller: [laughs] host: what do you have for us, john? caller: i want to speak to the young lady. i read a report the other day that the united states has got military. it has got almost 900 military

130s around the world in different countries. there are only 219 countries in the whole world. we have got numerous bases in 130 of them. billion, like, $700 this year by a more airplanes and bombs in whatever. people call in a lot of times when you have a subject about health care, and they always say well, why can't we have the same kind of health care that they have in norway or finland or somewhere? do not have to support a huge industrial military complex like we do. we want to be policeman to the world. you know, if we would spend less money on this and more money here at home, where we need it, i think the world would be a better place. that is all i wanted to say. guest: yeah, thank you so much for bringing that up. you are totally right. we have over 800 basis all around the world supporting

countries on the map that shows the bases, just to clarify, are countries that may have multiple bases, but these are ones we document it as being explicitly for the war on terror thomas i wanted to clarify. point, our other other research of the costs of war project has shown that since $5.1 we have spent trillion on the war on terrorism. so the military will say that they have spent a certain amount on the war on terror, but they are only looking at a particular portion of funding for this, called the overseas contingency operation. and what we say, if you have to you a much broader view, have to, for example, care for all of the veterans who are coming back from the post-9/11 wars and the fact that they will be needing care through their lifetime, so we include that

care for their lifetime in the $5.9 trillion. we include things like interest on the debt. most of this war has been paid for by borrowing. we have essentially placed it on a credit card. even if we stop paying right now, we will oh $8 trillion just in interest alone on this war by 2050. there are ways that this war is increasing the military base budget, so that is something you mentioned. that get things incorporated into the annual cost of the military that would not be there if it were not for this war, so we include an estimate of that as well. so taken altogether through the end of fiscal year 2019, we have spent and will spend $5.9 trillion, almost $6 trillion on this war. host: let's go to our calling from long beach, california. al is former military. caller: yeah, this is al.

i was army, 1963 to 1966. it is my belief that all of these wars are wasted time, and we should get out and get to the united states and protect our own country, protect our own people. guest: you know, i think there is some momentum in congress right now from people who would weee with you that have said have been encouraged to see people, congressman invoking the to have a resolution greater say in the war on terrorism and how it is playing out. people are saying they want to have more oversight and more accountability for these i think there are a growing number of lawmakers who would agree with you and who are, you know, taking action against the kind of inertia that has taken shape around this war, that, youss war,

know, i speak to high school classes, and the students in high school classes were not even born in 2001, when we started this war. so i think it is high time for us to be having real debates about whether or not these actions are meeting ou goals, and if not, what is a better grand plan for dealing with the issue of terrorism? anby fact that there are other, you know, far more dangerous risks to americans security, some could argue, such as climate change. host: now, stephanie, president some ofs vowed to end these forever wars. where has he been successful and unsuccessful? and also, is there a country or conflict where we can say america's effort on the war on terror has been unqualifiedly successful? guest: i don't think we can say that at all.

know, i think president trump has been talking about withdrawing from syria and negotiating peace with the taliban in afghanistan. those are, you know, it is a good thing to think about winding down this war. i think, you know, president trump could be more thoughtful but ihow to go about it, think what the real issue is is that in places like, for example, somalia, there have been dozens of drone strikes so that isear, against the al-shabaab militant group there. . africa, weike west are seeing far more -- the u.s. of a huge base in niger in west africa. so we see this war not winding down at all but actually ramping even look atnot

the forever war, because even if we were to withdraw from afghanistan and completely from syria, we have to look at this in its entirety and really think about what we are doing and why. host: let's talk to jim, who is calling from pocatello, idaho. jim, good morning. yes, thank you for taking my call. states has never started wars. they always going to support the countries that fought. and we had two parties that were on the same team except for supporting the socialist dictators, and the other ones supporting the people in the country itself, and maybe they can get something done. thank you. iest: uh, yeah, you know, don't know how to quite answer your comment other than to say, um, you know, i think politicians often will say, "oh,

this time this war will be quick and effective and cheap." part of what we are trying to do at the costs of war project essay that is never the case. it is never quick and cheap to go to war. host: what would you say would be the most effective way for the united states to combat global terrorists? guest: we have studies that show it is far more effective to address the grievances that underlie and fuel terrorist treated as a two problem that can be addressed with a military solution. so things like policing, that is one way, historically, and it has been shown to be more effective than military solutions. political solution to general, things like development and humanitarian some and addressing the heart of why these, you

know, militant groups would have the recruiting power that they do in many of these impoverished places, in places where people are, you know, feeling politically and economically marginalized. host: let's go to david, who is calling from tyler, texas. david, good morning. caller: good morning. yes, my comment on these never-ending wars is you hear all of these things about war profiteers, the establishment, the democrats getting richer and richer. and it never is. if we can figure out how to spend $17 trillion in the middle somejust because they got oil, why can't we spend that kind of money in south america, where we cannot have these border crossings like we are having? industrialize south america on this money that we are wasting on these never-ending wars?

and that, you know -- what i want to respond to is your point about war profiteering. plus in thebillion annual pentagon budget, right, over half of that, over $300 the topplus goes to five military contracting, defense contracting companies. that theirompanies ceo's alone are making hundreds of millions of dollars. they are profiting off of the business of war. n, who is's talk to do calling from jacksonville, florida, and don is a member of the military. don, good morning. don, are you there? caller: yes, i am here. can you hear me? host: yes, we can hear you now.

go ahead. caller: i just want to know where she is getting her expertise, from sitting at a desk? those people died for their country, and she is complaining about what we are doing. i don't understand it. guest: yeah, i understand where you are coming from. researchers,our and we built on a network of 50 scholars from not just around the u.s., but we had some global contributors as well, and we really see ourselves as working in service of policies that will benefit americans and others around the world. so we are very much thinking for example, and experiencest their affected by these

wars, and we really want to make we areat, you know, if going to send people to make the ultimate sacrifice and risk their lives for these kinds of goals, let's make sure those goals are worth it. host: let's talk to karen, who is calling from lexington, north carolina. karen, good morning. caller: good morning. first of all, i think the young lady is doing a job. she is extremely educated in her field, and that guy who called was just being a jerk, i guess. but i did have one question. i am a patriot all the way. i love my country. but i don't quite understand why we always have to be the policeman of the world. guest: yes, i think there, you know, there are a lot of people these days who are saying, um, that it certainly is, when it comes to terrorism, um, what happens if we go over to, you

know, over there, to a country abroad, and we are supposedly trying to fight terrorism before it comes to our country, but then we get involved in these really complicated and messy political situations that are far over our heads in terms of, you know, what -- it is not just about fighting terrorism, it becomes about a whole host of other things, and that becomes really complicated and difficult and makes a lot of people wonder why we are there in the first place. host: what has been congress' response to this information or to president trump's statement that he wants to end some of these forever wars? there --ah, i think, there are a lot of people who are interested in maintaining the forever wars.

contractors defense have a role to play in the lobbying around this issue. but i think there are some especially new members of the house, and old, like representative barbara lee in california, and ro khanna, who ,s a new member of the house they are really building the momentum around this issue of taking a hard look at these wars and ending these wars. and i think we would do well to support those efforts. host: let's talk to malcolm, who is calling from east greene, new york. malcolm, good morning. caller: good morning. my question is this -- what percent of the terrorist attacks originate overseas largely, and what, versus the percent that originate domestically? guest: yeah, thank you. caller: and the second point, i have a comment.

comments emphasizing the war on terrorism forgetlmingly, we perhaps equally dangerous problem to our society is climate change. i think that is a very good point. thank you. guest: thank you. ez,h, i think that -- oh, ge i am forgetting what you said originally, but i was going to talk about, i am sorry, your first part. yeah, i think the climate change part is really important, theuse the, you know, military is also a huge contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. we have a paper coming out on that, too. do to your earlier point, i not know the exact percentage, but it is certainly the case

that in terms of the large majority of terrorist incidents in the united states have been at the hands of, you know, white supremacist kinds of groups. so maybe we are looking in the wrong places for how to prevent these kinds of attacks. host: let's go to bill, who is calling from columbus, ohio. bill is a former member of the military. bill, good morning. caller: good morning. say you ared to missing the whole point of what we have to be over there defending ourselves, is because these people actually want to kill us. we have, so, i think, a paper that shows that in 2001n people have died directly stcause of this war, in ju iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan. we are hoping to extend our tally in the coming year to a

more global look. but that includes u.s. soldiers, and that includes civilians, a lot of civilians in these war zones. we are thinking about lives lost, we need to take those into account as well and think about the fact that those are just the people who have died directly because of, bullets, andbs and then you take into account all of the indirectness, right, the ways that people died because of being displaced from their homes and having their infrastructure taken down, having sewage and hospitals decimated. so that -- what we say is that that leads to several times as many more indirect deaths as direct us, so you are talking about, at this point, millions of people who have died as a result of these wars. host: let's talk to tony, who is

calling from san jose, new mexico. tony is also a former member of the military. tony, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you all doing? guest: good morning. i just want to thank you for bringing up, talking about climate change, for me, it is a you or ierrorism,et or anybody on this earth, basically if we are not a politician or a president or our food and poison supply, we have $21 trillion ths missing from the last audit of all of the military. wey are talking about, uh, need to go over there because they are killing people. how about our own country is killing our own citizens by allowing this poison and

domestic terrorism? and the prosecutors -- you brought up war profiteering. oil isgest consumer of our military, so of course we need to go over and get more oil , so the vicious cycle just continues. -- well, we asked have a commander in chief that gives away the location of submarines, never served one day in the service because of alleged "bone spurs," so we just need to wake up. this is not a democrat or republican problem, this is an american problem. host: go ahead. go ahead, stephanie. guest: yeah, absolutely, this is a nonpartisan issue for sure. i think that this is an issue that democrats and republicans alike can really come together on in terms of a lot of

different reasons to end these wars. our caller is absolutely right about the fact that the u.s. military is one of the largest contributors to greenhouse gas emissions on the planet. there are huge numbers of, you know, a huge amount of pollution that is happening because of all of theu know, military planes and equipment that is using oil, so that is really something to think about. host: we would like to thank stephanie savell, costs of war project codirector at brown university and contributor to smithsonian magazine america on war, mapping the u.s. war on terror. stephanie, thank you for being with us this morning. guest: thank you for having me. i appreciate it. we will talk, about, republicans only can talk about what will be the next

step. once again, it will be republicans only, so we are eating for your calls. but first, our c-span cities rochester, to minnesota, to be featured on american history tv and book history tv. eastern, theyon will all air, including a look at the political world of bob dylan. think that boble dylan leftist or somehow associating with the hippie movement of the 1960's or something like that, the voice of the generation in the 1960's, which is a label that he detested. they would look at him as leader of thet antiwar movement. he never went to an antiwar march. in fact, bob dylan is certainly not partisan. you cannot stick them in democrat or republican, and i would also say that you cannot

say that he is exactly left or right. there are certain themes that come through throughout bob dylan's life about his politics, and those subjects are social justice, support for the underdog, suspicion of and those -- what bob dylan is. >> "washington journal" continues. host: once again, we are opening up the phone lines to republicans only for the last 30 minutes of our show. republicans come up what you think needs to be the next steps on the mueller report? you are a, if republican in the eastern or central time zone, we want you to call in at (202) 748-8000. in theare a republican mountain or pacific time zone, we want you to call in at (202) 748-8001.

and keep in mind, we are always reading on social media, on twitter @cspanwj, and on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. um, the republicans, one of the things we have seen in the newspaper today were conversations about what the democrats wanted to do, but there has also been talk from republicans about what they should do about the mueller report, and here are a couple of tweaks we have seen this morning from republicans. kevin mccarthy tweeted "democrats want to keep searching for imaginary evidence is worth their claims, but it is simply not there. it is time to move on." and we of course have some tweets from president donald earlierho tweeted this

this week, "no collusion, no obstruction. for the haters and the radical left democrats, game over." so we're seeing tweets from all around the political spectrum. let's see what mark, who is calling from washington, d.c., thanks the republicans should do on the next steps. robert, good morning. caller: i believe the next steps full be to read the mueller report, and exit the parts that are supersecret. president trump may have made mistakes, but obviously there is no prosecution there. republicans have to move on from the mistakes, and make whoever is accountable needs to pay for it, i guess. let's go to bill, who is

calling from norcross georgia. bill, good morning. caller: good morning. agree withas i representative mccarthy. we need to move on. it is a waste of time. i am wondering what you, the moderator, picked this topic, because it is over now. are you just there to make trouble? what is your response? let's look at another tweeted that was done b um, oh, i lost -- let's go to a couple of tweets by our viewers here. from, let'seet here see, uh-oh. i seem to have lost my tweet here. let's go to a tweet from -- sorry about that. i seem to be having a bit of a computer problem here.

let's go to linda, who is calling from spokane, washington. linda, good morning. caller: hello. host: linda, you are on the air. go ahead. caller: i am calling from spokane, washington. i have been a lifelong republican, i never missed a vote. hello? host: we can hear you. go ahead, linda. caller: yes, i am a lifelong -- i think we lost linda. let's go to debbie, who is calling from dayton, ohio. debbie, good morning. caller: good morning. i just have a comment. and i changedat, when trump came into office. anyway, i think it is time that they drop all of this and impor. let's stop this witchhunt.

host: let's go to josé, who is coming from east los angeles, california. josé, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. . listen, i would like to make sure that people understand that what initiated the so-called mueller report was a hillary i5 ofon page dossier via m a so-called golden shower inside a russian motel somewhere in russia. basically, there was a guest photograph of the president showers with prostitutes, and that was going to compromise him. now, this was all made up, and towas used in the fisa court go and make this cockamamie deal with russian collusion.

ok, so i want people to understand that. that will now be investigated as to why was judge roberts on the supreme court told that this was -- shower dossier golden shower dossier was real, ok? host: let's go to elena. elena, good morning. can you hear me? caller: yes, can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: i would like to say it is time to move on. there was not enough evidence to substantiate the claim third i that with the last caller the trump campaign was not treated the same as other campaigns in the past, and we do need to investigate the origination of the investigation, so it is time to get back to business now. host: let's go to matt, who is calling from miamisburg, ohio.

matt, good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make the comment, i think from reading likeeport, it just seemed the spain was going on for so have been a republican, but it just seems like the democrats, they were just trying to find something with the collusion, and it never was found, and i just think it is time to move on, and it is time that we get back to business, the economy is great, jobs are growing at a great rate, and i think that let's just leave it alone and keep going and get back to the usual business. host: let's go to george, who is calling from highlands, new jersey. george, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i am doing good. caller: listen, i am mainly calling because i am a republican, and a few calls ago,

you had a republican on their who was not very nice at all to you, and i want to let you know that not all republicans are like that. now it is over. get it done with, and let's get on with making the country better. thank you for having the show. thank you. stan, who iso to calling from scottsdale, arizona. stan, good morning. caller: hi. i think it is time to go after brenner,cabe, and all the dirty cops. they had no reason to do this 2.5-year witchhunt was totally conflicted. e be accountable for what they put the american people and the president through. i love c-span. you guys do a great job. thanks a lot. host: republican congressman jim meadows appeared on

fox news and talk a little bit about what they think should happen next. [video clip] rep. jordan: a lot of people that market i talked to, they were so biased that they were willing to take one party's research document, places and unverified, in comey's words "dossier," that is what they did, and then when james comey d, he decides that he is going to push this even further, and he says "i am going to leak memos that i wrote to to "new york times" manufacture this." he told us at this time, after a year of doing this, they had no evidence of collusion, but he was willing to do this to create a special counsel, and that is what needs to be looked at, and that is what i think bill barr is going to do. host: let's look at some tweets from our viewers.

here is one that says if the startan people do not going after liberals for nonstop harassment of trump, they will likely do it to any american for winning. the democrats will take any steps to impeach this president, as they know they cannot the him -- beat him. here is one that says "investigate defies of records. no rush of collusion." let's go to pastor, who is calling from coffee springs, alabama. caller: good morning. and happy easter, c-span. i think right now, the republican party needs to step behind our president and fight the way he has been fighting. allas been fighting a fight by himself. the republicans are not going to stand with the president.

there won't be no more resignations, like the way they all stepped out, congressional, like paul ryan, 10 months before he was up, he retired and basically tied donald trump's hands. and if the democrats do not see border,going on at the they are talking "investigation, investigation, investigation," the republican congress -- and we hold the senate -- so there ain't going to be no impeachment. that is my comment. who iset's go to roy, calling from woodstock, virginia. roy, good morning. for years, immigrants have been flooding our borders with both skilled and unskilled labor. president trump is a modern day abraham lincoln. president trump is surging to

serve as our economy. in interest rotation system, and include capture, shifting slaves, they had to feed, house, clothe, provide medical attention, slave children have education. and to service economy, people coming across the order, you know, charitable organizations feed them, clothes them, provide housing for them, they provide free medical care and free education. for american wages, we are decreasing -- the summertime job opportunities are decreasing, and this president comes in with jobs for all americans and is trying to restore the middle-class. president obama's a lot of jobs were disappearing and they would not come back. this president is trying to , and restore the middle-class, and he is receiving resistance from all

over her it hillary clinton said we do not need borders, and she lost, because america should be first or did i hear a lot of people call in and say "what would christ do at the border?" but you have to remember one thing, christ came for jews first, that he allowed gentiles to comment. president trump that america first, get policies in place, then open the borders for everybody. he has not turned legal immigrants away. he welcomes legal immigrants, because he does meet the labor, but we have to support this president, because this president is supporting the united states and trying to turn it to moral ground that we have lost in the last few years. host: once again, we are taking calls from republicans only on the mueller report and what the next steps should be. if you're a republican in the eastern and central time zone, we want you to call (202) 748-8000.

if you are a republican in the mountain and pacific time zone, we want you to call (202) 748-8001. and keep in mind, we are always reading on social media, on twitter @cspanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. to bob, who is calling from tyler, texas. bob, good morning. caller: good morning. this thing that needs to happen is we need to be the first three words in the constitution. pray, who iso to calling from syracuse, new york. ray, good morning. caller: good morning. a lot of really good comments. is this issueay about the border or about collusion, these are all well below what is driving this big we are talking about

the battle in the united states right now, but this is worldwide, and it really comes down to who is going to control the world. that is what is going on. that is what the democrats are doing. that is why they are doing things that make them look like idiots, saying that our border is fine. that is crazy. but they are aiming for something that you cannot see, and it is control. , on the good trump side, is trying to bring the back to the people, which to the worldwide cabal is a dirty word. host: let's go to sandra, who is calling from santa ana, california. sandra, good morning. caller: -- this situation, and i am thinking that what needs to happen is, uh. host: sandra, go ahead.

republicansink the in the democrats only to do their jobs, especially in california. byt: what you mean "especially in california," sandra? caller: being a sanctuary state, i know exactly why. colleger is a community chancellor, and she is russian. terry, who is to calling from wood which, illinois -- woodbridge, illinois. terry, good morning. caller: i feel like the mueller report was a scam from the beginning, and now it is time to investigate the investigators. and i would like to know why obama and joe biden knew come up they knew it, and what they knew. and i think it is really important for our country, that

they should change the rules for the lawmakers up there. they should not be allowed to stand on the floor or go in front of a camera and mislead the public and continue lying to the public. the rules andged the laws and hold them accountable like schiff and well, they are still saying that, that is the most dangerous thing in our country. thank you. host: let's go to mike who is calling from nebraska. mike, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing on this saturday morning? you have a great easter. lord, jesus christ, you are alive. but when i am making is this mueller report, hillary clinton's comment was "resist, resist, resist, resist," ok? what does that tell you?

and the origins of this whole thing i believe started this , ale thing to set up trump russian hoax is what it is, and we have got to pray for trump to get reelected again, because if we have a socialist country, which is what everybody is afraid of, we are done. so that is all i have got to say. god bless you. host: let's go to rebecca, who is calling from malta, ohio. rebecca, good morning. caller: thank you. good morning. what ison is that happening in our nation right now is a travesty to the american people, that the things that have happened with the mueller report by the democratic party are unethical, because the report was finalized, and they are planning on using the taxpayers' money to do more investigations. i wonder how the democratic party feels what this looks like to the american people, that they want to spend more taxpayer money is on ridiculous

investigations that are literally accomplishing absolutely nothing, and they could be doing so much better work in our nation with the money that we have to help take care of the people that live here, the citizen, and i just think it is a tragedy, and it should. host: let's go to the next caller, which is william, who is calling from tampa, florida. william, good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, william. caller: here is what is going to happen. the democrats are going to go getd and impeach trump and our facts, more facts. one, he has already committed a crime by paying off the whores during the campaign -- host: did you vote for president trump? caller: what is that? host: william, you do not sound like a republican. did you vote for president

trump? ok, let's go to valerie, who is calling from waterford, california. valerie, good morning. caller: good morning. sir, thank you. yes, he needs to go to jail. needs to happen next is obama and clinton, who started all of this, needs to be prosecuted and the people who are involved with them, but the msnbc, when you listen to them, i mean, they are just going overboard. they need to let it go. "oh, this has been done," but attorney general barr put his statement on there, and they are not accepting it. and you know what, if they are all listening, there is going to be a reelection in 2020, and all of the people need to be aware that these people that are not doing anything in congress, we need to vote them out. this is just ridiculous. i mean, i cannot even watch msnbc, because they are so far

left. president trump has done more for this country than any other president, and everybody, just like that last caller, who was a democrat, oh, they have nothing but bad things to say. he is the best president ever. host: let's go to lisa, who is calling from providence, rhode island. lisa, good morning. caller: good morning, sweetheart. i just have to say enough is enough from these democrats. how about is the money comes out of their pockets? let them pay for this nonsense if they want to keep doing -- i know plenty of people that they lost their loved ones, they were raped and murdered from gang members. it does exist, democrats. and what is it, cortez and omar, excuse me, they are very disrespectful here you just get in, you should not be talking about that, for example, and they should go out and vote.

it is ridiculous. they are supposed to be for us. host: republicans have actually put out an ad, that we want to show you, the republicans for rule of law ad. we want you to see it. [video clip] ♪ he obstructed justice, and he abused his constitutional authority. of justice.on what kind of message do we send to america if we set a lower standard for the highest public official in this land? >> lying to the american people is a betrayal of trust. >> the truth must be the bedrock of our judicial system. . who iset's go to brent, calling from melbourne, florida. brent, good morning. caller:thank you for taking my . i would like to say that both

sides live all the time, and i would like for america to focus on what is best for america, which is to solve issues, which is trade with china, and issues with north korea. i think a lot of this is taking our eye off the ball, and it is going to make america worst. thank you. host: we would like to thank all of our callers for calling into c-span today, and direct we after the end of this show, c-span will mark the 20th anniversary of the 1999 columbine high school shooting, which is one of the deadliest shootings in american history come up with a program that includes former president bill clinton, vice president al gore, and members of congress speaking to the public just after the shooting. at the event was columbine students and parents. once again, you can watch this at 10:00 a.m., directly after this show. we want to thank everybody for watching today, and we will see you tomorrow for another c-span "washington journal." have a great saturday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

lookncer: next, c-span's at the columbine shooting. then, a discussion about the cost of medical mistakes. after that, a look back at some of the past white house easter egg rolls. this weekend, on c-span. tonight at 8:00 eastern, a forum on immigration policy and how to protect immigrant children. p.m.,day, at 6:30 historians, authors, and humidity activists -- community activists talked about anti-semitism and white supremacy. at 9:00, president george w. bush and robert gates talk about governing and leadership.

c-span twoook tv, on at 2:00 eastern, we take you to the san antonio book festival. that is sunday. arthur brooks, on his book "love your enemies" tonight, on american history tv. at 10:00 p.m. eastern, on reel america, the 1942's u.s. agriculture film profiling the island's history, culture, and challenges. eastern,t 4:30, condoleezza rice on the changing role of u.s. democracy and foreign policy over the last 100 years. watch, this weekend on the c-span networks. threecer: once, tv was giant networks and a government supported service called pbs.

small network with an unusual name rolled out a big idea, lets viewers decide on their own what was important to them. c-span opened the doors to washington policy making for all, bringing you unfiltered congress coverage and beyond. in the age of the power to the people, this was true people power. the landscape has changed. there is no monolithic media, broadcasting is giving away to narrowcasting, and youtube stars are a thing. but c-span's big idea is more relevant today than ever. no government money supports c-span. it's nonpartisan coverage is funded by your cable or satellite provider. television and online, c-span is your unfiltered view of government so you can make up your own mind. announcer: on school shootings since the april