coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events from washington, d.c. and around the country so you can make up your own mind created by cable in 1979. c-span is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. is our weekly segment about your money. today , we will talk about credit cards, specifically proposal by the new one of the democratic candidates. we are joined by matt schulz of comparecards.com. explain what comparecards is all about. guest: good morning. thanks for having me. comparecards is a place where people can shop for credit cards of all kinds, but they can also find information on how to

smartly acquire those cards and how to use them wisely. that is the key. host: how are you funded and are you financially supported by the credit card history? guest: comparecards.com gets a bounty whenever somebody successfully applies for a credit card on our site. we have relationships with a lot of the big banks, but we have a separate editorial operation that i am part of, where we have a similar church and state divide you would find in any newsroom. here,to the topic at hand bernie sanders and alexandra reducecortez want to credit card rates to 15%. here's an article by senator sanders.

banks have been ripping off americans for too long. this is from cnn.com. can you explain this plan? guest: basically, what they are trying to do is put a cap on the interest rates that credit cards can charge. right now, the only credit cards that have a rate cap in this country are credit union credit cards. by, right now, that cap, federal law, from the federal credit union act, that set the cap at 15%. but it also built in some exceptions to where the national credit union board can, under certain circumstances, raise if it feelsve 15% like it is necessary for the financial soundness of the credit unions.

basically, that rate cap has been at 18% for about 30 years. basically, they are basing this on the original letter of the law and not necessarily where rates stand at the moment. because the current credit union rate cap is 18%. host: we want to get our viewers opinions. we will have two phone lines and split the lines regionally. if you live in the eastern or central time zones, call, (202) 748-8000. if you live in the mountain or pacific time zones, call (202) 748-8001. we look forward to your calls on this idea. a little perspective here on credit card usage and debt in the united states. from experian, one of the

credit agencies, total debt on cutter cards right now, $800 billion -- on credit cards right now $800 billion. the average number of credit cards for each of us is around three. the average balance is 4200 dollars. and the number of delinquent cardholders in this country is over 30%. we want to get more of your take on these ideas being put out there. but let's hear from senator sanders first on his proposal. [video clip] now, you are looking at a medium credit card interest 21%. that means half of the american people -- you are earning $10 an hour now you don't have enough money to take care of your family, you will be paying 22% to 25% interest rates and on top of that what is not widely go to any you will

large department store and they say get our credit card but you get their credit card what you don't know is you will be paying something like 27% interest rates on that. 27%. how much do the banks borrow money? a borrow money from the fed at 2.5% and charge people 18% 25% interest rates. the poor you are the more desperate you are, the higher the interest rates are. host: that was senator sanders joined by representative ocasio -cortez. he put it in strong figures. borrow.t -- 2.5% to what does the banking industry think of this proposal mr. schulz? guest: the banking industry is not a big fan of it. there's a lot of speculation that if this 15% cap were to

come into play you would see an ,xtreme tightening of credit ofost immediately because the way banks and credit card companies price credit cards, because of the risk of the borrower, it would be difficult for banks to continue to make money off of credit cards by and large with a 15% interest rate. sanders' senator point, he is right that the median is about 21% and typically what you see anyone who has applied for the credit card in the last few years has probably seen that box in big bold type that has a range of interest rates sometimes at the 15% but ate 14% or

the top it is 24% or 25% depending on your credit worthiness. the banks do that in order to protect themselves from basically credit losses for people who don't pay money back and one of the things that could end up happening if a rate cap like this were to come into play is that instead of having that risk-based pricing those ranges that you see, it might end up being where everybody gets charged the same rate regardless of your credit worthiness. host: here's more from the american bankers association. today they write consumers benefit from a highly competitive and vibrant credit market. it would be a mistake for the government to artificially limit choices. the specific proposal will harm consumers by restricting access to credit or those who need it the most and driving them toward less regulated more costly

alternatives. that is from the american bankers association. carl is our first call from madison, mississippi for matt schulz. go ahead, carl. aller: the federal reserve, do they control the banks? host:host: when you ask about what specifically are you asking about in terms of the banks? overall do they control the banks? caller: they print the money and the banks get the money from the federal reserve. 15%, with that be more like if a person with a 10% credit card. host: thanks for calling. can you explain the connection between the federal reserve and the credit card companies in this conversation? with --enerally

virtually everybody's credit card in america is called a variable rate credit card so when the fed raises rates as they've done so many times over the last few years everybody's credit card, apr is going to go up by that quarter-point or however much they raise rates by in pretty short order within the next month or two after the announcement. that is frankly what has been driving a lot of the increase in credit card interest rates in the past three to four years because prior to the fed beginning their campaign of raising rates credit card interest rates were largely stable for several years. they are still certainly high but we did not necessarily see as much movement upward as we've seen in the last few years. host:host: shannon calling from palm city, florida. good morning. caller: good morning thank you for taking my call.

i have not had a chance to say this since he was on the program but you guys had -- i have to say what refreshing progressive voice for c-span. i enjoyed the segment. i know you guys are talking about the financial services committee and the house. i have been following them thatly and it is obvious the bankers don't need the lobbyist still working on behalf of them. if you listen to the hearings you see different conversations between two aisles. democrats looking out for consumers doing their best in the redlining practices and push for diversity among the ceos. the republicans seem more interested in protecting large banks. i'm just curious as a lobbyist for these bankers, are these

fines becoming a cost of business? host:host: let me ask you do you want to make a comment or ask a question about this credit card proposal that senator sanders and representative a conseil ocasioc-ortez -- caller:caller: i think it is wonderful. it was pretty obvious that there needs to be more work done on behalf of the consumers instead of the bankers. the bankers are making record high profits and paying these fees and fines that are just a drop in the bucket for taking advantage of consumers and doing heinous things. have these fines just become a cost of doing business so they don't have to change their practices?

host: anything you want to respond to? it is tough to speak to the fines because they are a significant thing. when it comes to dealing with credit cards there is kind of a similar ideological thing that we see play out in a lot of different areas in washington for aone side is more little more regulation and one is for letting the frame working there are valid arguments and this is one of those areas in the credit card space where we are going to see a lot of talk and a lot of conversation between now and november 2020. host: you wrote at compare cars.com at 10 years after the credit card act eight in 10

americans -- eight in 10 americans still want some thing to be done. remind us what the credit card act did. guest:guest: the credit card act was legislation signed by president obama. the 10th anniversary is in two days. it changed the landscape of the credit card industry enormously. among the different things it did, it required many more clear disclosures for consumers from credit card industries. it impacted what banks presents could be on college campuses, changed the requirements for how easy it was for folks under 21 to get a credit card. that is a small sample of what was involved. one thing it did not do, the big hole in the whole thing, this idea of the rate cap and knowing

that the anniversary was coming up we did a little polling at compare cards and asked people well before this recent proposal came up whether they supported the concept of a rate cap and we found 88% of those who we asked said that they did. close tobout as unanimous as you're going to get in today's polarized country so i think that tells you something. host:host: let's go to robert in alabama. good morning to you. caller: good morning. i have a comment. this rate cap goes into effect at 15% the first thing the credit card companies are going to have to do to survive is there going to have to tighten credit. raisere going to have to the credit score limits before they will issue a credit card.

a fairans anybody with credit score is not going to be able to get a credit card because credit card companies can't take the risk at the lower interest rate and still make a living. this is being proposed by -- resswoman a consei she did not know how to rent an apartment when she got to washington and a credit score of 430. the sponsor of it is an avowed socialist. that is all i have to say on that. host: we will get a response from our guest. we hadi will say if ocasioed congresswoman

-- we names to the pole might've seen different numbers related to the cap but what he beings what is basically threatened by the banks and credit card companies where if you've seen the avengers movie you know part of it is thanos with the infinity stones snaps his fingers and half the population is gone. we could end up seeing a financial version of that where if the cap comes in and takes effect millions and millions of credit card accounts are basically closed the next day. at least that is the threat. when you get down to it the reality of it is that nobody expects a 15% rate cap to come into reality.

obviously not before november 2020. even depending on what would happen in the next election that would be a tough sell and a more realistic cap that might be able to be pushed through might be something that would be more in the low 20's. something like that which would still be significant especially if you're talking about store credit cards, student credit cards and that sort of thing. that seems a more realistic and game for this conversation. host: you may have just answered my question in part but one of the earlier callers mentioned the house financial services committee. has the committee weighed in on this idea at all. -- has the committee weighed in on this idea at all?

guest: i have not heard much beyond the congresswoman and the senator and i think some of that expected to be dead on arrival there until we see how the 2020 elections play out. host:host: let's go to maryellen who is in sarasota. caller: whencaller: you are using the word consumer you are talking about adults. either an adult knows, has enough common sense to pay their bill or quite honestly they should not have a credit card at all. whether at a 15% rate or a 27% rate. i think the problem is people are behaving as children and not paying their bill so if you do have to drop the rate and you lose half of the credit card population that might be in

their best interest rather than -- 15% or is it going to be 27%. people need to learn how to budget their money and pay their bills and do it on time. it's pretty simple if you're going to be an adult in this country. you're not a child that needs senator sanders or congresswoman cortez to think for you or protect you. i would like to see the consumer protection financial protection bureau be eliminated. how can we have an arm of our government that answers to no one? that agency does not answer to their congress and it does not answer to the executive branch. it is a disgrace and should be eliminated. host: let's get a response from our guest. guest: my personal opinion is

i'm a supporter of the cfpb. it is not a perfect organization and there's certainly valid arguments as to the structure of itand the accountability of within the branches of government. of having the concept a watchdog organization to keep an eye on things makes sense in a lot of ways. there is some work to be done to make it work a little better maybe make it a little sidescceptable to both but one good example of why the cfpb, for example if you had a

complaint about your credit card before the creation of the cfpb you did not know what governmental entity to come plane to desh to complain to because different institutions were overseen by different regulators. the cfpb created a single place where people would know to complain if something went wrong. that was a useful tool for consumers. analyst forindustry compare cards.com. that is the website. you mentioned how you folks are funded they sickly every time someone successfully applies for a new card you earn some money. does the website do other things for consumers? does it help them understand what they are getting into when

they apply for a credit card or how to manage credit card debt? what are the consumer type information will folks find? guest: we have an editorial team does a great job providing evergreen content. what you need to know about getting a credit card and using it wisely. we have a glossary of definitions in case somebody gets confused about various terms because there's a lot of jargon that's pretty easy to get confused about with cards. we have calculators that can help you get a feel for how long it's going to take you to pay off your debt and then a lot of what i and then a lot of what i do is public polling to take people's viewpoints on various issues in the credit card space including the survey that we did which said that about 90% of american

cardholders support some sort of rate cap. host: if you go to experience.com they list credit card debt i state. i wanted to get your take. overall credit card debt is up 23% over the last five years. you can see the statistic. some of the states here. some of the higher figures. california last year $104,000 in credit card debt. florida, $59,000. averages for individuals? can you give us some insight on the numbers? guest: generally speaking the --ional average for a card individual cardholder is about $6,000 give or take. to address what one of the earlier callers mentioned there certainly are people who are in

credit card debt because they are making bad choices and i was one of those people. when i was 203i had $10,000 in credit card debt because i just made bad choice after bad choice . but you also have people who simply need these credit cards to get by because life is really expensive in 2019 and these cards can be a good short-term tool to help them get by. it's certainly not ideal and we wish it was not that way, but that can be the case. we also see in a lot of the polling we do we see it is not just low income folks who carry credit card debt. affluent people, high income people, often have as much if not more credit card debt than any other income group and some their financial

margin for error is bigger so they are not that concerned with the interest payments but also some of it is that you have folks leveraging the short term aspect of the credit card to do something like start a side hustle or open a business. that sort of thing. there is a giant mountain of credit card debt out there but there's certainly not just one reason why it's growing. host:host: let's hear from more callers including edward from manchester, connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. us --ery easy for all of with the viewpoints of individuals and groups. what we should be concentrating on are the problems that we all share as individuals nationwide.

when we realize that the problems, all of them that we are dealing with especially here at home in america have been plopped on our laps by founding fathers making decisions that would affect our nations future lives. people's lives land.te the laws of our if we must follow our laws and enforce our laws let the american people vote on what those laws will be starting with we canstitution, so that make our votes count on the

issues that hit the floor of our house and effect the direction wars.tion goes in such as if we must fight wars let us vote on what wars we go to. if people are being invaded in another nation who have relatives that live right here at home and they asked our help let us vote.t on the issues that hit the floor of our house such as banking and interest and laws. when our government is corrupt

and self interest people very few people control many people no matter what nation you are from. host: thank you edward. any thing you want to respond to? necessarily. host: let's move on to patrick in chicago. our guest is the chief industry analyst for compare cards.com. hello, patrick. caller: thank you for having me. is what are they looking at besides interest rates? i've got quite a few credit and the oney time thing i'm clear on when i get a credit card is my credit limit and the range of interest rates i'm going to be charged more or less knowing i had to pay off the statement every month. what are they doing to increase access for credit

cards for people because in 2019 shopping online, using a rideshare, you more or less need a credit card. i will take my answer off-line. host: thanks for calling, patrick. guest: we are actually seeing up becausehten we are starting to see more and more late payments. the lower end of the credit spectrum so we have seen access to credit expand greatly over as thet five years or so great recession faded into history. these things are cyclical. things get tighter than things kind of settled down and they expand than they come back down and what we are seeing now is a

little bit of tightening. but athing super severe bit of a preview of what you might see when the inevitable economic downturn comes, whenever that might be. in terms of what else is out isre in terms of fees, that one of the discussions that will be around this rate cap. if there is a rate cap especially one as severe as a 15% rate cap, banks are going to find a way to make their money. they will find another lever to pull. one of the big remaining buttons they will have to push would be involving fees and over the last few years we have seen where things like a foreign transaction fee is much less common on a credit card than it used to be. we have seen somebody can call

and get a late payment fee waived very easily. annual fees get waived and even things like balance transfer cards we saw where there would be many cards out there for a little while. not so much anymore, that came with no balance transfer fee. there was to be a really tight rate cap what you would see at a minimum is an explosion of those fees again as banks work to recoup the revenue that rate cap would have taken from them. what impact host: might there be on other attractive features of certain credit cards such as cashback, rewards, that kind of thing? what would you expect to happen there? guest: that's the other big thing. -- interest rates

generally drive credit cards for folks who need them and for whom they are not a luxury but for many people and most of the people that the banks want to attract it is all about rewards and a 15% rate cap chances are might mean if not the end of credit card rewards, at a minimum it would mean a curtailing of them because what we saw was when there was a similar issue with debit cards with the dodd frank years ago the durbin amendment basically capped interchange fees on debit cards, meaning how much money merchants pay the credit card cardnies when you use that

. those fees are basically used to help pay for things like credit card rewards. once that cap was put on debit cards, debit card rewards essentially became extinct. they are still around a little bit but you kind of have to work to find them. the fear is that something similar to that would happen with credit card rewards if there was a severe rate cap. that would be a really big deal. sharon host: host: is in san marco's, texas. caller:caller: i have nothing to say except to call and correct something one of your callers said. he accused representative ocasio-cortez of having a 430 credit score et cetera et cetera, that was quickly fact checked.

you go to snopes and commentary post that says ocasio-cortez -- it is very long and detailed investigation of this story and labeled it completely false. i want to make certain that comment that was made by one of your callers is debunked and that people listen to what people are saying rather than making these absurd accusations about people's character. host: any comments on the credit card matter here? caller: i just want the truth to be told. host: let's go to rick in texas. caller: i was just calling. i've always used credit cards to my advantage. i've never paid any interest on them because i get them 18 thens for 0% interest and when it's going off the 0% i always have other ones sent to

me so i just get another one. i probably got a half a million credit line on them. i've taught my daughter, i teach them about finance and all that stuff. i was in west virginia as a kid and nobody taught me anything. i did not know how to walk into a bank. i figured out reading books and then put myself through college. i have not paid interest in 20 years on a credit card. months later i get a new one i pay the other one off and i move on. host: besides your website what are some other places viewers could go to find out about how to manage the situation? how to enter the situation of getting credit card increases in their credit line? manage things and stay out of trouble? guest: the cfpb website has a lot of good information on it. one thing perhaps the first place people should go if they

want to work on their credit is annual credit report.com. government mandated no strings attached place where you youro and get all three of credit reports from the three major credit bureaus for free. if you have not done that recently, that is a big deal because everybody focuses on their credit score but really in truth the credit report is the biggest thing because all your credit score is is a number grade for your credit report. you can't really find out what mistakes you've made. you can't figure out what is working against you unless you see those credit reports and people would be shocked to see how many times there are mistakes.

the last thing anybody wants is to have their credit held back by something they did not do so it is worth your time to look at annual credit report and on our site compare cards.com, you can see your trans union credit report on a regular basis as well. host: one other question getting back to that $800 billion collective figure that's credit card debt in his country as of last may. any concerns in your area or are you hearing a lot of concerns about any kind of credit card bubble? the bursting of that bubble. we see in other areas of finance. what would that look like? guest: that's kind of the billion dollar question. in terms of a bubble i don't think most people see that coming because actually despite

having about $1 trillion in credit card debt the percentage of debt to disposable income when it comes to credit cards is actually far lower than it was during the great recession so that is providing some hope to people that may be we are not on the edge of this cliff and that there is room to run in terms of debt. the truth is that there is only so much credit card debt that people can handle before things start getting ugly and probably what's going to end up happening is that there will be some other economic trigger, whether it's a downturn in the job market or something else like that that ends up causing people to be late on their credit cards and to whatn issue similar we saw in 2008, 2009.

while credit card debt was really high before the economic collapse 10 years ago, it was not credit card debt obviously that caused that so we really don't know how much room there is to run. it's going to be interesting to watch. host: gerrit is waiting in lawrenceville, georgia. caller: good morning. i am 77 years old and i'm old enough to remember if you get something on a credit card to its tomorrows money. we paid off our credit card every month and we have not paid interest in 40 years. that is really what credit is for. a short period of time. we pay it off every month. we've had it up to $8,000 and still paid it off every month and i think that is wrong with -- that is what is wrong with credit. people don't realize it is tomorrow's income.

that is what you ought to put on your message things. , used to the cap goes be if it was over 10% but i don't see how the government has got any business fooling with private business. the banks charge whatever they want and let competition do the job and make sure competition can do the job. host: let's hear from our guest. guest: basically as it relates to user -- senator sanders brought this up. there was a supreme court case several decades ago that made it of that the usury law individual state was what you you -- wass what what the banks could charge. so, effectively, that kind of

made it to where there was and was and we are in this situation. trying to chase rewards or look for sign-up bonuses or something like that for a free trip to paris. it's important to understand that if you carry a balance does notmonth the math

work in your favor as it relates to those rewards. your focus needs to be if you have debt, on knocking the debt down and establishing an emergency fund for yourself, getting your financial house in order before you start worrying about those credit card rewards regardless of how lucrative they might be. host: oscar is in virginia. what would you like to ask our guest? good morning i just have a comment and a question. there was a lady who called earlier this morning about how adults should behave and pay their debts. when you think about how we had a government shutdown that had nothing to do with grown adults. it had to do with obnoxious behavior. that created a credit suisse. 35 days of shutdown. everyone was in debt. everyone needed to go to their credit cards and get money out

or cash out some credit to pay bills. that has nothing to do with being frivolous with your credit or buying a steak dinner on a friday. a lot of people have this conception of how we are children. supplynomy is based on and demand. you take someone's money of course the credit cards are going to be getting all this money, all this debt. we are hung out to dry by government. by the same token government should be involved. government bailed out banks in 2008. loand an $800 billion given to the five big banks because they were too big to fail. we are too big to fail. it's almost a trillion dollars in credit card debt. what if all america said we are not going to pay one more penny of your credit card bills?

that would be too big to fail for companies. government should be involved and bernie sanders does have a point. they should put cap on it. my question is i have an american express card and i am retired. i'm 60. i got a letter from american express because i don't buy lunches and go to work every day and use it they canceled the credit card because of nonuse. 690 andt score is over yet they sent me a letter saying we don't want your business because you have not used your credit card and 12 months. host: thanks for calling. final comments on maybe with the last caller said? .his cap proposal and interest guest: the main thing about this

cap proposal it is good politics but the truth is there's very little chance of it coming to light. certainly before the 2020 election. even after that, the reality is that cap would likely end up needing to be higher in order to be palatable to the banks. whatever the conversation ends up, it's going to be fascinating because there's an awful lot of people with an awful lot of money and one billion plus reasons to make sure this does not happen. it's going to be fascinating. host: we will see where this idea goes. a cheap industry analyst for compare cards.com. joining us live from austin this morning. thanks for your time and >> washington journal mugs are

available on c-span's new online store. check out a washington journal mugs and see all of the c-span product. but here's a look at our live coverage tuesday. the house is back at 10:00 a.m. eastern for general speeches with legislative business at noon. on the agenda, several veteran related bills including one on suicide prevention. the senate returns to vote on more traditional nominations including daniel collins to be a judge for the ninth circuit court of appeals. on c-span three, the house judiciary committee has a hearing on the mueller report planned for 10:00 a.m. eastern without don mccann who informed the committee through his lawyers monday he would not appear based on instructions from the white house. later in the day, the house ways and means subcommittee's looks at ways to protect patients from receiving unexpected medical bills. that gets underway at 3:00 p.m. eastern.

>> sunday night on q&a. watch our interview with yale university historian joined freeman on her book, "the field of one: violence in congress and the world -- road to civil war." in and of itself it is dramatic. guys are throwing punches, it is a massive encounter. what was interesting to me was people at the time looked at it and what they saw was a group of northerners and a group of southerners running at each other in the house of representatives and several of them said this does not look like a normal congressional fight. this looks like north and south. this looks a good battle. and that is striking. indeed, it certainly did look like a battle and it is not that long before the civil war. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's "q&a."

oversight hearing on the pricing of the hiv prevention drug. witnesses include doctors and the ceo of the company that manufactures the pill. they were asked about access to the drug and why the cost is higher in the u.s. than in other countries. this is about 3.5 hours. s higher in the u.s. than in other countries. this is about three and a half hours. >> the meet willing come to order. the chair recognizes a recess of the committee at any time. i recognize myself for five minutes to give an opening statement. today. is our committee's second hearing on the skyrocketing prices of prescription drugs. in our first hearing in january, the committee's first witness,