hawley speaks at king's college in new york city. the southern district of new remarked aty's boston university law school. and may 2009 4 l and the ellen degeneres at tulane university. this and on the free c-span radio app. tomorrow, the chair of the joint aching at thef brookings institution about national security. 10:30 a.m. live on c-span. there will be online at www.c-span.org, and you can listen on the c-span radio app. . now. she serves as director for the center on religion and civil society at the heritage

foundation. much of your work has focused on the equality act, which passed the house early this month. a 236-173 vote. remind viewers what the equality act purports to do. guest: first of all, i give for having me on. we believe all americans have human dignity. our concerns about the act is that it elevates sexual orientation and gender identity ideology to become a civil right. to codify that in federal law would amend the 1964 civil rights act as sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. our concerns are that there are equality concerns on both dies. causeurn would disagreements on things like gender identity and sexual differences into what would legally be considered to be discrimination, than it would cause punishment for people who

hold a different view on such issues. host: house so? guest: there are about 22 states that have passed similar laws and we have seen a number of cases that indicate safety, and liberty concerns. for example, a homeless shelter in anchorage, alaska called in the hope center that serves women who have been battered, abused, trafficked, and they have a policy of keeping that shelter for women only. they are now being sued under a similar law in anchorage about requires them to consider identity. so when a man who identifies as a woman came to the shelter and requested admittance, after he was in an altercation at a men's shelter, they could not allow him in because they wanted to protect the women in the shelter. so they paid for a taxi sent him to the hospital,, he had already been injured in his altercation,

and now they are being sued. how there example of is more endangerment created by this law. -- women who have a legitimate expectation that if they go to a women's shelter, they will be with women, it is simply traumatizing for them if they have already asked you rinsed male violence -- if they have already experienced male violence, to be in the center with other men. creating access to any man who can simply say that he identifies as a woman, that is creating and a german to women and girls. host: what is the path ahead for the equality act? guest: it passed in the house. i don't think it will come up in the senate. obviously, there is a huge cultural battle going on, i think it will continue to go on. i think what is happening in the -- we see a lot

of laws in the states not only adding sexual identity to the nondiscrimination laws, but also bills about school curricula where it is mandated to have energy pt curriculum not only in that mandated to have lgbt sexiculum not on the in education, but also in the regular curriculum. host: we are talking with emilie kao from the heritage foundation joining us until the bottom of the hour. if you want to join the conversation, on the democrats, 202-748-8000 is a number, 202-748-8001, and independents, 202-748-8002. you talk about the cultural battles. a democratic congressman, mark spokane, was on the program recently and talked about civil

rights for the lgbtq community and how much of that has changed in recent years. >> what is interesting about this issue, before it was a political issue around discrimination for the ejb two q community, in wisconsin, my state, we were the first in the country to have a gay and lesbian civil rights bill. 1982, nine years later, for another state to do it, and signed by a republican governor. that is how different it was. at that time, it was not seen as a political wedge issue. it became one in later years. but with marriage equality the coming reality, and for people to see that my marriage to my husband did not affect them, i think people realize that treating everyone fairly like they wanted to be treated was really what america is all about. reaction. and the idea of this becoming a political wedge in this country. guest: he said something i agree with which is that everyone should be treated fairly.

the problem with me quality act, it does not -- the problem with the equality act, it doesn't treat people fairly. interesting the who think that marriage is only between a man and a woman, it treats them as basically the equivalent of a racist bigot. i think there are serious concerns about, for instance, sports, single sex facilities for women and girls, serious concerns among the medical community that the recommended treatment from the transgender community actually harms patients, particularly children. the things that are being tried out on children now, experimental hormones, surgeries on minors and double mastectomies on 16-year-old girls, i think there are a lot of professionals who believe their rights should be considered as well. the equality act has led to lawsuits in all of these instances. .ost:

explain the women's sports argument that is when we hear quite a bit on the floor of the house. he heard it during the debates to pass the equality act earlier this month. guest: for instance, there is a young woman in connecticut, a 16-year-old she excelled in track and field for the sometime. she came in eighth in her race, because the first and second. were taken by two males who identified as females. she says that it was everybodying because knows the outcome of the race before it even begins. girlsust believe that, should be what to compete against girls. what these equality act would do is turn all women's sports into: sports. one woman who testified at the hearing for the quality act said it would lead to the end of girls-only sports. we saw this weekend at the ncaa

championship, the 400 meter hurdles in the women's division it was won by a biological male. host: a comment from one of those following on twitter today he disagrees with you saying -- teaching creates kids what trends or lgbtq means is not the sexualization of children. guest: when you are talking about children in kindergarten being read a book about a sexual reassignment surgery it is incredibly confusing for them. that is what we saw in rockland county, california, parents objected to their children being read the story without any parental notification or consent, or opt out. the fact is that sexual reassignment surgery, it is not really appropriate to talk to it.ergarteners about teachers will not give kids that age the full information about sexual reassignment, which they did not, but the subject of the

went throughazz," sexual reassignment and experienced complications from it. these are complicated issues adults and far too sexual for kindergarten children. host: 202-748-8000 for democrats to call in 202-748-8001 for republicans independents, 202-748-8002. emilie kao of the heritage religionn's center for and civil society is with us until the bottom of the hour. son is up first from raphael, california on the democrats line. good morning-good morning. caller:. i guess the hot topic is abortion. if you believe like i do that a person's life begins at conception, then that person is also not being treated fairly, as she was saying, about

treating everybody fairly. i just wonder what are her comments on that. guest: i agree. think every american's life should be respected. the right to life is all. first freedom. unfortunately, again, they quality act could lead to abortion litigation where states -- stateshout without medicare or medicaid would be forced and sued to cover abortion expenses. we think it is a radical bill that imposes a sexual ideology upon the whole nation. host: how close are some of these lawsuits you mentioned surrounding specifically the equality act to moving to the supreme court or to actually coming to trial? guest: interestingly, the equality act implicates title andof the civil rights act the supreme court has decided to take up three cases in the fall that address title vii and whether sex actually means

biological sex or what the aclu and human rights campaigners are saying, sexual orientation and gender identity. the supreme court is going to rule on the civil rights act as it is written, but i think the argument from the aclu and human there ismpaign that already sexual orientation and gender identity implicit in the word sex in the 1964 civil rights act, undercuts all their efforts to pass the equality act to add s orientation and gender identity to the law. host: on the democrats line, good morning. caller: your guest is not respectful to the very large number of people who are born prenatalthanks to issues, endocrine disruptors and dozens of conditions. a lot of people don't realize that the reason to have these

, many times they me look male or female at birth but then, as they get older, their buddies start changing. they might wonder where they have infertility issues -- their bodies start changing. they might wonder why they have infertility issues. a lot of people are bornxxy or just x. there are many combinations. it could be from prenatal sm, it, prenatal chimeri the microexplain , left behind by their siblings. guest: thank you. we do acknowledge that there are people who are born intersex, a

tiny part of the population, for under 1%. we acknowledge them but we don't think an identity should be a category added to the civil rights law. gender identity is completely subjective and based on a person's own perception of their sex. sex is not just a feeling, it is a biological identity. we have structured society and created laws around the fact that sucks i'm a is a biological sex is in the fact that a biological fact. ruth bader ginsburg said we need to have single-sex facilities for women and men to this robe separately, tests sleep separately -- to disrobe separately or sleep separately. host: next caller. caller: good morning. i would like to make a quick comment. i am calling about these schools

that allow these issues to go on. it is confusing to the kids. most of the time, the schools will get sued, but i also think they should sue the parents who think it is ok for these kids to go through this. kao. you ms. guest: thank you, michael. the important thing to remember is that parents have the right to educate their children. that has been recognized by the supreme court multiple times. what these laws of the state levels do, when they impose sexual curriculums promoting a particular theory about same-sexerism, and promoting them in history, science, mathematics, to children as young as pre-k, it is really allowing the state federalnt and the

government to impose a sexual ideology on the entire country. particularly, i think, with the transgender theory, it is actually contradictory to what science says. children are supposed to be learning about science based on facts, not on political theory. host: daniel is an independent from north carolina, good morning. caller: yes. i think sex belongs in a marriage. it is best to be a christian, and a virgin when you get married. a man's body and a woman's body are reciprocals of each other. i don't believe in homosexuality as being born with it, i think the mother wore pants in the family. host: that is daniel from north carolina. jim -- i think we lost daniel. jim in orange, virginia, republican.

caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to comment on the topic at hand. this sexualation of deviant lifestyle. it is a simple fact, you cannot reproduce. it needs to be normalized in order to be recruited, and i believe they are doing that other younger and younger age, and it is sad. host: emilie kao. guest: going back to what the representative from wisconsin said, represented a -- , he said,tive pocan my same-sex marriage does not affect anybody else's rights. but the issue we have with the equality act and other laws, is that it does affect everybody else when you have this political viewpoint taught in public schools all throughout the country that advances

same-sex marriage and transgender theory. these are issues that parents should be allowed to address with their children at the right time, at a time of their own choosing and in a way of their own choosing. in colorado, we see an extreme law where moral viewpoints are not allowed to be discussed in the classroom when they discuss sexual orientation and gender identity. that is an exclusion of certain americans because of their viewpoints. host: having this discussion in the wake of the house passing the equality act, a 236-173 vote. adding the definition of classes protected under the civil rights law to include sexual identity and -- sexual orientation and gender identity. one statement about the equality it that actid --

would protect all students from discrimination based on their sexual orientation and gender identity, and ensure safer school environments where lgbtq youth can thrive academically. schoolt recent national survey said 18% of lgbtq youth experience of discriminatory practices. lgbtq-relatede issues.natory they had lower self-esteem and higher levels of depression. we wanted to get your reaction to that statement. guest: i think every student should be able to study and to learn and grow in a safe and supportive environment. students -- no student should be bullet or discriminated against. but the concern with the law we it is that about, the act discounts the ft and

privacy concerns of, a lot of it, female students. for instance, in public schools, where we see this problem occurring, even in kindergarten, there is a girl who was sexually assaulted in the school bathroom after the school passed a transgender bathroom policy. again, with no consultation to parents. after she was sexually assaulted, the school did nothing to address her assault. she ended up being the one who had to transfer to a different school to be in a safe environment. we believe that the best way for communities to address this is for the smallest legislative the, the local communities, local school boards to figure out the solutions for their students, not for the federal government to impose a nationwide transgender bathroom policy. we see multiple lawsuits from

students against their school districts, saying, we want safety and privacy in our locker rooms and bathrooms. host: does the heritage foundation get involved in any of these lawsuits? do you consult or are you a part of any lawsuits? guest: about this we will comment on the lawsuits, but we don't do litigation. host: what do you do at the devos center for those who are familiar? guest: we promote life, marriage, and religious liberty. we work on religion and society. in addition to our commentary on what the supreme court is doing, we provide research and education to congress and to the executive branch. host: about 10 minutes left with emilie kao this morning. heritage.org, if you want to check out her work and the work of the devos center on religion and civil society. loretto in cleveland, ohio on the democrat line, good morning. caller: good morning, and good morning, america. this is a hot topic.

i think the heritage foundation is going a little too far. kids need as much education as they can get about everything. it is better to know them not to know. dealing with these kids who are transgender, those who are gay or learning that they are gay, they do need protection, because just like african-americans we could not go to school. we could not" because. of our skin color. we had no control over our skin color, but people were hating cause of that. church and state -- there is a reason that there is a division of church and state. . some people want to put religion in schools no, no, no. church is for religion. sunday. during the weekday, is math,

science, social studies. you got to learn something. no prayer in school. host: loretto in ohio this morning. guest: i would agree with loretta that schools should teach the facts. science, the facts are that mileage is of sex. biologyis -- that sex.e basis of we see a rising rate of gender dysphoria in this country, and that is a real concern. debate in thee medical community about the best way to treat gender dysphoria. many physicians say that parents and medical physicians should pursue watchful waiting, allowing the child to become comfortable with their biological sex. which many do, if they go through puberty, if they don't

have hormonal interventions before puberty. . 80% to 90% actually become. host: comfortable what about those who don't become comfortable. guest: the statistics show that when used start the child on the path of sexual reassignment starting at age four, and that eight with puberty blockers they almost, always going to cross sex hormones, and then on to surgeries. was you get them on that path, they are almost 100%, statistics show that they will continue. host: if you pursue of watchful the students who are still not comfortable in the sex they are born in. guest: those who are not comfortable with their sex, there are two ways it can go. they can continue to go with talk therapy for their gender dysphoria, or they can choose the path when they are adults of surgeries. one of our big concerns is that

minorsers are being -- are being given surgeries and hormones. we don't think they can give informed consent over these drugs which will ultimately sterilize them. eight-year-olds are being given cross-sex hormones. they were not mentally well-informed enough to be able to consent to these powerful drugs that will lead to their infertility later on in life. lou, on theillinois, democrat line. caller: i am straight, and have often wondered about the definition of sexual orientation. is in that it thought process, and if so, shouldn't thoughts be private? guest: thank you. of our concernrt with the categories of sexual orientation and gender identity legal like

race, is that we have seen a discrimination on the basis of race throughout our history, starting with slavery and then a jim crow. and was illegitimate for society to have separate water fountains, or separate parts of the bus where people -- for people based on their skin color. but it is not the same thing as sexual orientation, which is in part based on conduct and gender identity, which is completely a self perception. having separate bathrooms for males and females is not based that people will identify as transgender are inferior, which is what racial supremacy says about blacks, that they are inferior. we think equating something like gender identity or sexual orientation with race is an illegitimate comparison. it is a wrongful comparison. host: five minutes left.

you mentioned that one of the things you do at the heritage foundation is track major supreme court cases and comment about them. remind folks what the piece cross is and what that will decide this term in the supreme court. inst: that piece cross linda's broke, maryland is a cross that honors world war i veterans -- the piece cross in maryland.sburg, it is a symbol of the valor and sacrifice the soldiers made in world war i. the cross was a symbol of the of soldiers throughout not only the u.s. but also in the battlefields in europe. when american soldiers were buried there, they would often put across on their grave. so it has historic sig >> you can find us online at www.c-span.org. we take you live to the capital for a pro forma session.