are doing is zero. they are not going by city hall. they are not going to school board meetings. they are not covering the president. they rely on delivering our content and monetizing around that content. if you don't do that anymore, we don't have local journalism. the question is if we want a strong and vibrant journalism industry. the question is how to get there and should we do it with an antitrust exemption specifically. we tried that in the 1970's went newspapers were last threatened by a new medium. it did not work. >> watch "the communicators" monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span2.o -- >> i am a white male and i am prejudiced. the reason is not something i was taught the kind of something that i learned. i don't like to be forced to like people. i like to be led to like people through example. what can i do to change?

you know, to be a better american? >> that was a remarkable moment. i did not really realize until i stepped off the set because there were more calls after that. , howst have to keep going powerful it was. there was something in his voice that touched me and you could hear it. it was so authentic as he search for the words to say something to a national audience that most people will not admit in their homes. >> heather mcghee, president of a public policy organization was a guest on "washington journal" in august 2016. she talked about that interaction and her follow-up. >> part of the reason for that, you have to remember this is august. we have had this sort of racially charged summer with donald trump's campaign, with lack lives matter and police shootings and tragic events in

that you rouge and dallas. it was really a time when people all they were seeing on tv about race was bad news. here was, first, a white man admitting that he's prejudiced, which, for people of color, we kind of all went finally. "q&a." y on c-span's back for our spotlight on magazine segment talking about her article. susan, thank you for being with us this morning. >> thrilled to be here. thank you. >> first of all, tell us what brain drain is. >> it is when a state loses the population it has of people who grew up in the state or were born in the state and become educated and then moved to another state or maybe go get educated in another state and stay there. state or get educated somewhere and stay there.

have anates do not educated population to start businesses or grow the economies of the state so what is happening is there is a regional trend where the states in the center of the country are losing well educated people to the coast. it is increasing the economic disparity as well as the cultural wars. host: you say it is increasing the economic disparity. what is the problem with people moving around in this way? guest: first of all, we are in a postindustrial economy now. i grew up in buffalo, new york so i am very familiar to what happens when a city loses its industrial base. can'toblem is when you make a decent living working in you will go, somewhere else where you get a high-tech job. you lose the actual population of the state, the population gets older, and it becomes

difficult because you do not have younger people supporting the economy for the older people, but the second thing is that they are not coming back to the state and starting businesses. one example is west virginia. there was a time when you certainly could make a decent living working at the coal industry. those jobs really are not so much there anymore. people are leaving west virginia and when they grow up there, they go to college somewhere else. and then they do not come back. because they do not come back, you could start a business in west virginia. you could put a major company there. but people are not doing that. if you are a major company, even if you were told for example that you got a good tax break or by moving there, if you do not have the educated population working there, you will not locate there. it is continuous spiral downward. host: that is the economic problem. guest: right.

host: how does this brain drain affect clinical polarization in the country? guest: that is interesting. and this is correlation, not causation. in general, non-college-educated whites tend to vote republican. they went for donald trump by an overwhelming percentage in 2016 versus college-educated voters who went for hillary clinton. i think it might have been a 4 to 1 margin. this is just how people vote, it does not mean that if you go out and get a college education, you will start voting democratic necessarily. we want to be clear about that. the problem is that the states become more stratified, more homogenous. that is why we are seeing in the center of the country, states becoming redder. ohio is a very good example of this. ohio, i do not even think is a swing state anymore.

you see the states along the coast becoming more blue. this political divide that we have in this country and sort of verging on hostility, or maybe not even verging anymore. host: if you would like to join this conversation about brain drain and how it affects both the economy and politics in the u.s., we want to hear from you. we will open up our regional lines for this conversation. if you are in the eastern are central time zone, you want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000, if you are in the mountains, or pacific time zones, (202) mind, we and keep in are always reading on social anda on twitter @cspanwj facebook at facebook.com/cspan. is this a rural versus urban question or is this just about regions in the u.s.? guest: i think those things are

intertwined. what is interesting with the urban and rural question, there is some excellent pew polling on this where they show the urban america and rural america both feel aggrieved, they both feel like they are getting the shorter end of the stick when it comes to government support and attention, and each one things the other one does not understand it. [laughter] that,may be some truth to but it does become a function. if your economy no longer has a strong base in the industrial companies that it had back decades ago, you will be losing people and it will become more rural. people are moving to cities, texas is an interesting example of that. with themore to do fact that it is becoming more urbanized. you go to dallas and you drive around there, there are parts that feel like brooklyn to me

because of how things have changed the i went to the new toyota headquarters in plano, and you feel like you are walking into google the way the place looks. that state is changing because it is becoming more urbanized. it will at some point to become a swing state at some point where there are leaving or moving to places like texas or illinois. host: what our states doing to combat this? the midwest states in the southern states that are involved in this brain drain, what are they doing to try to stop it, or do they want to stop it? guest: they do want to stop and they do not know what to do. purdue university is working on things to try to get people to stay. ohio is trying to attract people who get stem degrees there to keep them there. new york state which is not having a problem with brain drain -- they are in an interesting situation where people leave but a lot of people come in, they have done

something interesting. they were the first state to provide which is essentially public free higher education. stay in have to do is the state for one year for every year that you got a scholarship. if you are working, you have to work in new york you cannot, work in connecticut and live in new york. if you do move, it turns into a loan. this is a way to keep people from getting an education in new york and then taking the degree and going somewhere else. tulsa, oklahoma has a small program where they are trying to get people to work there remotely. maybe there is not a job for you and tulsa but you can live there, and so many people can work remotely now given technology, so they are trying to get people to live there and work remotely. that is an interesting thing, too, and i talked to some demographers about this. whether the cost of housing

could start upending this and you could live really anywhere for a lot of jobs as long as you have broadband access. and whether that will start changing and dynamic. you see this a little bit with people in california moving to idaho, housing is a lot cheaper right over the border. you've seen some smaller cities and places like south dakota starting to get a younger, hipper crowd because you can live there quite well, quite cheaply, and it starts to grow from there. but we are still at the beginning of that and as somebody pointed out to meet in west virginia, there are huge part of west virginia without broadband access. our: i want to read to viewers exactly what you wrote about this. some states are making aggressive efforts to keep educated people from leaving. new york state and 2017 became different -- new york state in 2017 became the first state to make public college virtually

free under a certain threshold, $125,000 $25,000 -- adjusted gross income this year. but there is a hitch. must be employed in new york state. our other states attempted to do this same thing? guest: i have not seen a program that is exactly like the excelsior scholarship program, but there have been efforts to provide some sort of tuition assistance in encouraging people to stay there. this is the only one i am aware of where you have to stay in new york for a year for every year that you get a scholarship. host: let's open up our phone lines. let's talk to michael who is calling from pennsylvania. michael, good morning. caller: good morning. that was very good, thank you. think as your guest basically have aou need to hva --

combination of governments, private industry, and local government to get involved. you need all three people to start aggressive programs to try to redevelop these types of areas that have solely concentrated on the coal mining industry. there has to be a transformation. and people have to take that step. i think a lot of people are resistant because it has been there so long. these, thenly having government and private industry get together, but also the population. you have to make them aware of the fact that this is not your future. i think that is a difficult thing for people who have done this for 30 or 40 years. guest: yes. whateople who know me know a buffalo booster i am, as i have seen this happen personally in the city that i love -- and if you ever meet a buffalo knee and, we are very -- bus we arefalonian,

very defensive of buffalo. it is very difficult, you could have a basic middle-class life and those jobs are gone and most are not coming back, there are cities and places that have made the transition. particular has attracted a lot of health-care care related industry to the at anand it is actually incredible upswing right now. pittsburgh with semiconductors, they did that some time ago. cleveland is completely different. places like west virginia, it is harder. it is unfortunate because pennsylvania is a beautiful state. not everybody wants to live in the middle of the city either, so there has to be a way to build the economy where people can live there, and a diverse group of people can live there. host: let's talk to patricia coming -- calling from new york. caller: good morning. i am calling because you are

talking about the urban centers and drawing people there. the also concerned about rural areas. in new york, they have tried to t projectseren and the more rural counties which is the majority of new york which are impoverished for the most part. even though they have some tourism, it is not a great name state for them. these projects have not really gotten off the ground. they have tried empire development districts, they have tried all kinds of things which do not seem to have really gotten momentum. even though they are trying to help the of states, the upstate is still suffering greatly and it is in a major depression. stay? you make them there are no jobs. the state is trying to do something, but it cannot accomplish anything. guest: i think you are pointing

out exactly what the difficulty is here and i have traveled in all of those parts of new york, and you are right. how can you tell a young person to come backg up and stay after are no jobs there? you are ashley wright. host: let's talk to -- you are absolutely right. host: let's talk to bob from michigan. caller: i would remind susan that there are other places in michigan than detroit. [laughter] guest: absolutely. caller: like a grand rapids. what michigan went through in early 2000's was a loss of our population and the educated kids because of the auto industry and the loss of that. yearsnt the last 10 rebuilding that through what we call the stem curriculum in the high schools which is science technology, mass, and i forgot -- guest: engineering.

caller: right. there is a city and west michigan called kalamazoo where they privately started what they call a column as -- they call a kalamazoo promise which is any kid that graduates from kalamazoo high school have all of their college paid for privately, and this is done with private money. over the past 10 years, we have started to regain industry such and rebuilding the heavy industries like autos and the trucks. but also, concentrating on the more technology driven industries like ai and auto the mobility sections of the autonomous vehicles and so forth, which is a good fix for the industries here. michigan is on its way back and even though detroit might still

be trying, the left part of the state is already banking it. guest: that is great. my dad went to kalamazoo college for the record. are people staying after they get their educations there? i think that that is the issue. host: is this a congressional problem, is this something that congress is looking at or should this be left up to individual states -- is it a local problem. guest: that is an interesting question. i have not seen congress look at this as a whole. , thereis of my report was a really interesting report by the joint economic committee which by the way, shout out to them. it was beautifully written in addition to being well researched and they went through what was happening mathematically in all of the states, and the trends over the past 40 years. about thed, too, applications of this with the country becoming more divided. technology allows us to

understand each other better but the country is getting more polarized. the basis was i am not entirely sure what congress can do about it. you cannot make people move to a state. you can offer incentives that people live there. i do wonder whether housing from thell forfeit other direction more of a stick than a carrot. host: maurice calling from east douglas, georgia. caller: good morning, how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i have a few things i want to push back on. ohio is not turning red, remember, barack obama won the state twice. of the people, black folks, the democratic nominee in 2016 would have won that state. number two, texas is already majority/minority but it is a nonvoting state. votede latinos and blacks

in the state for the democratic nominee, that state would already be consistently blue statewide. number three, it is really all about culture. it is not about jobs. young people do not want to be economyogenous, unhip and culture. i live right now in middle georgia. and it is basically all black and white. older black folks and old white folks. but i lived in atlanta for 20 years and i am going back there, but that is what young people do. they want to be in a place that is hip and culturally diverse, and that is what the millenials and generation x are anyway. every generation subsequent to that is going to become even more diverse. you have to incentivize them through incentivizing the culture to become more diverse. these heartbeat bills and things like that are only driving

people, young people away from -- guest: yes, of course. -- i did not mean moved.est it, but it has texas, interestingly enough, it is majority minority but that is not why that day is getting more democratic. it is because it is becoming more urbanized. they have attracted a lot of big companies they are moving to work at those companies from california, illinois, and new york area georgia is this date -- and new york. georgia a state -- is a state that is moving. there was one more thing i wanted to address. host: we are talking about reasons but sometimes we have the same brain drain issues inside of states. guest: he talked about people

wanting to live in somewhere young and hip -- that is true. there was another separate report out called "state of change" done by the bipartisan policy center. always interesting talking about this particular one that talked about how the parties are becoming more defined by different groups with noncollege noncollege educated whites being more republican and the democratic party becoming more and more diverse. an interesting thing that people brought up when it came to age is that millenials and generation z'ers are voting democratic, but as people get older, they tend to get more conservative. however, what is different now as people are getting married later and having children later, so they are wondering if that then delays that sort of movement to become more politically conservative as you get older. and what you brought up about

young people wanting to live and younger and hipper places, that is more extended now, because they are not getting married at 22 as they might have a couple of generations ago. host: we do have to think about these issues with an estate. we have one person here who "we left upstate new york because we could see our children would never be able to live where they were raised because of the lack of employment. it broke my heart but it was the best thing we ever did." do we see that brain drain happening within states? guest: absolutely. upstate new york is a great example of that. i understand that the mentality -- where are your children going to work when they get out of school? it is definitely a problem. host: let's talk to john who called from silver spring maryland. caller: is the guest name susan? guest: yes. host: susan, i --

to live inan, i used buffalo, new york in the 1980's and people used to come to work because of the job offering before the nafta, but i will say this -- most people just jumping left and right. what you are saying is exactly -- you always love where you were born or raised as a family. you want that place to be strong economically, schools, and you want to be close to your family. but what are we seeing in buffalo, people once the nafta came up, everyone moved out of the state and moved. i travel a lot. in westat happened virginia, ohio, and indiana. it breaks my heart. this is where the people used to theroud to have a job and parents and kids are close to each other. and they have a good connection. and that is what you are

probably talking about right now. it is an economic issue. bornyou build where i was -- even though i was not born in buffalo, i did go back to buffalo because i see right now that there is light in the tunnels. a lot of people came back, they invested in the states, they create jobs, and people who grew up in that area, they went back to buffalo because it is a beautiful place to live. host: go ahead. guest: it is and i think it is a good example -- buffalo losing its population was not just about nafta. that had been going on for a long time with the decline of the industry there. they tried several things as you probably know, to try to bring people back. i believe that health care related industries has worked on that. when young people moved back, when i talk about a downwardly spiraling affecting other states, it goes upward in a place like buffalo because young people are moving back, they are

turning these old buildings into downtown.lofts the river has been integrated into the community and a used to be a place for industry to dump into. when young people move back, it becomes more hip, and then it starts spiraling upward. i would love it to see other cities in other communities in the nation do that. i feel that things like that built this country. and i want them to survive. host: let's talk to catherine who was calling from concord, new hampshire. about a few calling moments ago when you were talking about the idea of free college for each year that they paid for your college, you had to stay in the area. i graduated from college in new jersey in 1963. it was a state college that offered free tuition. you had to qualify by taking an exam.

and you had to stay teaching in the states for at least three years after you graduated. and you had to keep up a grade point average each year to qualify for the free tuition, the next year. it worked out very well. one of the things missing from today is when you do not hear that they have to have a qualifying exam to get in, and they do not have to keep up a grade point average. it does not seem to be responsibility. they go in, they take five credits -- we had 15 credits each semester. go intoin and they party, whatever, but if you have this qualify to get in, keep up your grade point average, and then i think it is a good idea to pay their tuition. guest: actually, i did not get into all of the details of my story. you do have to keep a certain gpa and you definitely have to

graduate on time. they have certain restrictions. and you do not automatically get full tuition, it varies according to need. it sounds like your program was for teachers and i think there are some programs like that for certain professions. glad you did it. host: i will point out that there is a story about the kalamazoo promise in today's "wall street journal." it talks about the program and how it has our has not helped kalamazoo. let's talk to michelle who was calling from warren, michigan. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make the point when i heard the gentleman from grand rapids around that time 2000, i left michigan and lived in new york and got some great job experience. i moved back 2000, here so we could have a house

and a little more's face. i understand the brain drain and the conflict because michigan is a little bit of a different place. you maybe feel more comfortable in other places where it is a little more easy to get around on public transit. it is a conflict, but it is nice to be back in the home state, too. guest: i am glad to hear that. the poll to go back to where you grew up is very powerful, particularly when you get older i am finding. host: are you planning to go back to buffalo? guest: my partner is puerto rican and he has spent a few holidays in puerto rico, and he is not very excited to go back in there. host: i would love to go back to mississippi to but my wife is not in love with mississippi either. [laughter] host: madeleine, good morning. caller: i would like to comment that one of the things that the

country is not taking into likederation is the skills agriculture businesses that support agriculture that are not -- that are acting like those skills are not necessary. i think that is a mistake that our country is making in this big moved to big cities as we have a population that is totally dependent on agribusiness. disruptsng agribusiness, those people are going to be in real trouble. abouto not have any idea how to produce food or to cook food or to any of those kinds of things that are part of small-town life or particularly, rural small-town life. guest: i am glad you brought that up.

it takes me back to when i was a very young reporter and work for some small newspapers in upstate new york. -- we had a little bumper sticker that they gave us that said that farmers feed you three times a day and it is true, and i think it is an important point. host: we would like to thank susan mulligan of u.s. news & world report and talking >> live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. morning, the new york times chief correspondent will discuss his new book, confirmation bias. mark the 50th anniversary of the cuyahoga .iver fire with a historian

washingtonwatch " journal." join the discussion. >> i am a white male. i am prejudiced. it is something that was not taught but something i learned. i don't like to be forced to like people. i like to be led to like people. what can i do to change? to be a better american? >> that was a remarkable moment. i did not realize until i stepped off the set. there was something in his voice that touched me. it is so authentic as he searches for the words to say something to a national audience that we won't admit in our home. presidentnight, the

of the public policy organization demos was a guest on "washington journla." that,t of the reason for it is august, we have had this racially charged summer with donald trump's campaign, black lives matter in the police , the tragic events in baton rouge and dallas. it was a time when people felt like all they were seeing on tv about race was bad news. admitting white man that he was prejudiced. we all said, finally. sunday night at 8:00 eastern. >> book tv, this weekend. sunday morning, the washington

chief talks bureau about kim jong-un. >> he was 27 years old when he took over. as a reporter, i did what we do. i went out and tried to reported out. i tried to re-create his childhood and bring together as much information as i could about how he grew up, how he became this leader that he is today, how he justifies to himself the brutal things that he does to remain the leader. p.m., an executive in the trump organization discusses his time. view, we have issues we can see that

these of the big emerging forces that we have to deal with. don't i want my president, isn't it pretty smart for him to have good relationships with those leaders? isn't that a smart thing? i take comfort in the fact that these people are all talking to each other. >> this weekend on book tv on c-span two. daniels, president of the institute, talking about why the town hall is in work. ron:t