and the work speaks for itself. and the report is my testimony. i would not provide information beyond that which is already public in any appearance before congress. announcer: former special counsel robert mueller is set to appear before two committees of congress on wednesday, july 17. at 9:00 a.m. eastern he gives testimony to the house judiciary committee, then later will take questions from the house intelligence committee, both open sessions. his report into russian interference in the 2016 election will air live on c-span3, online at c-span.org, or on the free c-span radio app. ♪

thee is also the end of where you put in the quote about john osborne. day, the inauguration he was an-- 1969 june old liberal current margin. he said it almost breaks your heart. all of this is fresh and new. most of the memorandum had never been published. reallyat is about is what it was like as a young conservative in the white house trying to do battle for your belief. the transition the party was undergoing. operated, held the whole thing together until watergate collapsed it.

i said this is the time to take on the networks directly, openly, at a high level the way to do it is with a speech by the vice president of the united states which i will write and it came back, a memo, a photograph of it is in that book, where haldeman wrote back, he has seen, go ahead. that means the president of the united states has seen your memo, go ahead and start writing that speech. i wrote it for about three or four days. i was in touch with the vice president. i went through three drafts, which is not a great number, and i was called over to the oval office and there sat the president with his glasses on which he never wore, coat and tie, sitting there at the desk, writing in phrases to this agnew

speech, and he murmured, this will tear the scab off those bastards, and i broke out laughing and he broke out laughing and agnew went out to deliver that speech at some midwest gathering, a conference in des moines, and i got word, in the white house, where i worked, that abc was going to go live with it. and i was nervous, so i went up to the university club and went swimming, and they called me from the pool and they said, pat, nbc and cbs are going live with it. and i said to myself, this is either going to be a great success or a career ender. and agnew delivered that speech on the networks, and the reaction was sensational. nationwide, telegrams, letters. the whole country stood with us and the sentiment about the

networks and television. that night if you can believer , it, i drove out to andrews air force base at about 3:00 a.m. and got aboard air force 2. agnew had invited me to ride with him down to cape canaveral, and he comes on the plane late and he comes over to me and says, gangbusters. it was just a phenomenal moment, and that moment, i think nixon's great silent majority speech, agnew's attack on the networks at des moines and the follow up attack on the "washington post" and "new york times" in montgomery, alabama, which i wrote with the vice president, that, i think, was the real making of the president. not 1968 so much but the real making of the president. if you can believe it, brian, at the end of that year, richard nixon was at 68% approval and 19% disapproval. astonishing. here was a fellow who seven years

before was the biggest loser in american politics after he lost the governorship in california to pat brown. >> let's see a little bit of that speech, the former vice president, november 13, 1969, in des moines. [video clip] >> every american has a right to disagree with the president of the united states and to express publicly that disagreement. but the president of the united states has a right to communicate directly with the people who elected him. [applause] >> and the people of this country have the right to make up their own mind, and form their own opinions about a presidential address without having the president's words and thoughts characterized through the prejudices of critics before they can even be digested. >> i remember that that happened right around dinner hour or 6:00 or 7:00 at night. >> i think it was around 7:00 or 7:30, i believe, at night. maybe 7:00 at night. that's correct. and agnew, what he's talking about there is the fundamental

point and it exists today, that the president of the united states, in those days, a number of people had custody of how and what would be seen of the president of the united states and how it would be presented because they controlled all three networks. i would say 12 people would make this decision, and so in effect the direct communication between the president and the people, they were standing right in the middle of it. they had the lens and they would present it as they saw fit and in excerpts as they saw fit and we almost couldn't live with this. the president was constantly on the phone and calling for letters to the editors and telegrams. i said, this is nonsense. you were seen by 50 million people. the network commenting on it was seen by 50 million people. we can't turn this around with

letters to the editor, so we elevated that issue and the issue exists to this day and i think that was, that was the first strike. >> why did they decide at the time to carry it live? because they would never do this in those days. >> well, i think because -- well, we put in a phrase at the end, whether what i say tonight is heard by the american people doesn't depend on you or depend on me. they decide what you hear and don't hear and that was exactly right and it was a challenge. also, i think -- as i recall in there, we had a quote from frank reynolds of abc, had written this horrible thing or said this horrible thing on television during the campaign of 1968, which just astonished me saying nixon's retaining his ability to hit his people -- [inaudible] we had quotes and things like that, which were a challenge in defiance of him.

i think they put it on the air because agnew was being trashed as an individual who had no sensitivity and didn't understand the first amendment. that they thought that the public would say, my goodness, these nixon people want to -- want to censor the news and restrict the first amendment. the american people loved it. it was the real making of vice president agnew who, before that, as you know in 1968, had been regarded by the press as something of a buffoon. >> what impact did it have on you when you found out he was taking cash money in envelopes. >> he had a press conference. and there were these reports and rumors that he was being investigated by a friend of mine in baltimore, u.s. attorney, and i went up and watched agnew, and

ziggler, the press secretary, seemed to undercut agnew, so i called out, al, what's going on? why are we not standing by the vice president? he said, come on over, pat. and i went into his office. the chief-of-staff, the corner office that haldeman had. he said we have him taking envelopes in the basement, and i was shattered by this. agnew was a good friend of mine. i traveled with him in 1970. i liked him. we were buddies. he had real courage. and he was just a terrific fellow. had a lot of fun with him. you could play tricks on the guy and he enjoyed it. and i think, i was really agonized and disappointed with that. i remember writing him a note the day he resigned. >> did you ever talk to him after that? >> i didn't talk about what happened and why. i assumed they had the goods on him and he pled nolo contender.

whenever agnew came to down, -- came to town once every year , or two, he would call a number of agnew's close friends, and in a quiet meeting, bryce would be there and the folks, good earl, buchanan, everybody would have a couple of drinks and talk about great days. he was fun to travel with. >> there are a lot of different things you touch on and i'm going to jump around but before before,jump around, but i'm going to ask you to do something i don't think you have ever done. i want you to talk about your brothers and sisters because there are eight of them. and you mention a couple, you mentioned henry and crick, and we know baby cannon, but how old are they, how many are still alive, where do you fit in the family and what did they do? >> my two oldest brothers, bill, he died when he was about 45, so my brother hank died a couple of

years ago. so i'm the oldest now of nine and my brother crick, the one who served in vietnam, he's got six kids and he's a dentist and he's living out in maryland, montgomery county, below him, in age, is my sister kathleen. who worked with bill kristol for a while and with vice president quayle. she's got three kids now and has lost a kid. she's -- and then below her is my brother jack. john edward buchanan who coaches basketball, and he had been an accountant and a business executive. he lives in kensington, maryland. and then there is bay, who is general mcarthur who ran my campaign. a tough customer. she, incidentally, she was high on romney and she became a

mormon. in 2012, and when i was over, i think she was disillusioned by it and got out of politics and is doing very well. >> where does she live? >> oakton, virginia, and then my brother, brian, he went down to bedford, once he got out of medical school, bedford, virginia, which is down between roanoke, lynchburg and up in the hills there. got that famous world war ii memorial, you know, where all of those guys from bedford coming i sure -- coming ashore on the beach and were just wiped out. then there is my brother tom, who is a managing partner lives on gerald ford drive. where john mccain went to school. that's where they are and what they are doing but we all grew up in d.c. i spent -- i was born in d.c., my mother used to work at the providence hospital, born and

raised on the d.c. side, they call it chevy chase d.c.. right up the street. buchanan family field is the name of the football field. and went to georgetown. on the five-year plan. >> i remember you getting kicked out of georgetown. >> i got this story in the book, when i got aboard the plane with agnew, somebody got aboard after me and i looked over and it was the head of loyola college or university at the time. he looked at me, and it was instant recognition. father joe had expelled me from georgetown university after an altercation with the police when i was a senior in october of 1959. and this was dug up by jack anderson's deputy, brit hume, when i was in the white house writing speeches about how these kids, we got to crack down on

student disorders, and brit hume called me up and said, pat, i want to read you something here. it says you were arrested and this is what you were charged with. you were out on $2,000 bond and all of this, what do you have to say for yourself after your fight with the police? i said, well, brit, i was a head on points until they brought out the sticks. one of my better lines. when you have no defense. >> mom and dad, what were they like? >> my father was very much an autocrat. very autocratic. his three political heroes were joe mccarthy, general mcarthur and general francisco franco of spain, the catholic who finished off the communists. in spain, he was a very devout catholic. he went to gonzaga before i did. he came off out of a broken family. his father had left him and the

jesuits came by and got him when he graduated from holy trinity. it was an irish neighborhood in those days and they brought him down to gonzaga, and so when -- he raised nine kids and my mother, you know, these towns you saw, that trump was visiting -- i used to go up there after the water. -- up there after the war. my mom was one of eight kids. my cousins were telling my baw there is nothing , up here in the valley but trump signs. [laughter] >> and that's where trump won the election in pennsylvania. out there, take that southwest corner of pennsylvania. the eastern part of ohio. up there at that steel mill in west virginia. that's where he won the election. >> there is a quote in your book from richard nixon, i have never

seen an extremist like you who has a sense of humor. where did he say that? >> i challenged hw bush 10 weeks before the new hampshire primary in 1972. my sister and i went up to challenge the president of the united states in the new hampshire primary, and when we got there, polls showed bush had about 65 to 70%. buchanan had 16 and david duke at six in the polls. we went through a really tough campaign against bush up there. stayed up there. constantly and we closed the gap from 50 or something points, closed it to a gap of 17 -- 15 points. 51-37, something like that. it was a tremendous victory. a moral victory and the press played it up huge and we went to georgia and did almost as well but then we had super tuesday and there were eight primaries on super tuesday and i got wiped

out in every single one. and so nixon was in new jersey, so i had lost 10 in a row. so i called nixon in new jersey, the president, and i said, mr. president, 10-10, not bad? he said, buchanan, you're the only extremist i know with a sense of humor. he said, come on up, bring shelley and your secret service detail. so it was a very pleasant visit i had with him. with the old man, that was just two years before he died. just before he died, i called him, up in new jersey and i said, we haven't talked, he said, pat, i'm coming down to d.c. he would come down. it was a washington hotel on that circle. over toward -- >> washington circle. >> exactly. and he would come down there, and he was really so alert and

everything, and you sit down, what is he doing? what is he commenting? who is up, who is down? and it was like the first time i met him. he was so interested, his whole life in politics and personalities and issues. he was consumed by this and i've thought of it from january 1966 when i met him till about the oregon primary, i was the principle one in there for three, four, five hours a day in his office. in the white house, it was haldeman and ehrlichman but the old man needed that, constantly exploring this issue, that issue, what do you think, calling you back in, but it's a feature i didn't, you know, my wife was with the vice president, when he was vice president, but -- yeah, when nixon was vice president but i don't know whether bob who was close to him then was in there like that.

i noticed that was a characteristic of him. >> you were sitting across from him. you had a three-hour interview-chat with him before you hired him back in 1966. >> right. >> how old were you? >> it was november -- december, i had just turned 27. >> what was that like? >> it was not a hard interview because he was asking me about issues. >> you were doing what at the time? >> i was an editorial writer. i got a lucky break, six weeks out of journalism school, i went back and applied for an opening there, and the editorial editor said you can write some editorials until we hire the replacement for the guy that left and i was really working so hard, that they kept me in and they moved the other editorial writer out. so we had two editorial writers at the globe democrat. the post dispatch down the street had about six or seven. so i was writing immediately on every issue local, statewide,

things i was unaware of. initially unaware of, foreign policy, domestic, everything. and i had been doing this for 3 1/2 years, and writing other pieces as well. so president nixon would ask me about various things in this three-hour meeting. i was all settled on it, and i passed the oral exam with flying colors. he said after the three hours, he said i would like to hire you for one year. and he said, here's the reason. i want you to help write the column i've got to write once a month. get that, do some press work do the other things. right outside my office. and he said, one year, because i'm going to go out and campaign for all the republicans in 1966. and if we don't get back some of these massive losses we've gotten in the goldwater campaign, the nomination won't be worth anything. so nixon predicted we were going to win 40 seats in the house and

whatever in the senate, and the returns came in, we won 47 in the house. this was november, 1966. we were on our way to the white house. >> when did you see him in his angriest moment, for you and how did he react when he was angry? >> you know, he never yelled at me. he never yelled at me. if he got angry, he would yell generically at the wall. why can't i get some people to do these things? i can't recall him really enraged at me. i don't know why. but in the book, i don't think i have recollections -- i don't have great recollections of him being enraged but i will say this. i worked for reagan, and i remember reagan coming into the cabinet room and i don't know why he looked at me and said,

tip o'neill and exploded. he exploded, when he came out of that meeting with gorbachev. nick, who was a friend of mine, he was the ambassador and reagan came out, he was waving around human events which had denounced the summit, but reagan had this, what i consider a healthy temper. sort of exploded like a storm, and by the time we are coming home on that plane at night, dolan -- celebrating the fact that we didn't get any deal. reagan came back and he was in wonderful spirits. pat, you're determined, jimmy stewart and i, telling story, but president nixon kept it inside himself and he brooded. i mean, when he would call you at night and he was angry at something the voice was low, i want you to do this, do this, do that, and go after them, and he

would let these things get to him in a way that i don't think president reagan did. as i say, i think there was a certain healthy thing of sort of an anger and then getting it out of the system. and that's the real difference between the two. >> during the next administration, watergate, bob haldeman, magruder, chuck colson, they all went to prison. they testified. you testified, i've got a little piece of video from your testimony. you say that you had your brother sit behind you. >> right. >> why? >> my brother crick. i had watched all the others up there and they all had these lawyers sitting beside them. you know, and as soon as you see that these guys have got a lawyer, he's got a problem. he must have done something, got some lawyer advising him, and i didn't believe i had done anything wrong but i did need somebody just to be with me. so i called my brother crick up on the day i was going to

testify, or the day before and i said, "can you come over to watergate where i live with charlie and we'll go to the white house and get breakfast and then we are going to head up to the big committee hearing room where john f. kennedy announced for president." he came up, i said, "you don't need to sit at the table with me but i want you to sit right behind me," and in the book i think i've got a picture with my brother right behind me there and that's what he did and when they would take a break he would go back into the room and then we would come back out to the hearing, in and out. so, yeah, you wanted your brother there. i didn't need a lawyer. >> this video, i'm not sure if it's your brother behind you in this video that we have but let's run it and you can tell us if you know who this person is. [video clip]. >> the president stand on the issue of defense and welfare and

taxes and government and integration and busing were closer to what the american people wanted. wellhairman, we one as because of the quality an character of our candidate. if one looks back over the political history of this country, there is only one other man other than richard nixon, who has been his party's nominee for president or vice president five times. that's franklin roosevelt. >> in those days you couldn't put a camera in front of you, so we couldn't see you frontally. that's not your brother? >> no, that's not my brother but there is a picture in the book of my brother right behind me, you can see, it's cut off, but he was right there. i could hear him laughing at times. >> did you ever think in this process that you would go to prison? >> no. i never hired a lawyer. i had been before grand juries. i was called over by the special prosecutor. it was a very vindictive hostile crowd. they tried to get you involved in the dirty trick operations.

but to be honest, i thought sam dash just didn't understand politics. we had some phrases he was reading to me. nixon said we had to go to -- i agreed, i had done this analysis, i said it's time to go out to the kennels and let all the dogs loose. so he reads this and says, can you explain this to me? and i said, look gary hart said , if the nixon people underestimate us, we'll do what was done to humphrey and kill him. i do not think he had physical violence in mind. but, you know, it came off very well. i will say those 5 1/2 hours. i got back, was it nolan of the "boston globe." >> marty nolan. >> he said, when buchanan got back, it was like orderly field after lindbergh landed.

it was a great day, in a way, because it boosted the morale of the whole white house staff which was very down. and the good news was, the networks decided after i had testified for five hours, they are no longer carrying live testimony. >> here you are on your way to china. i don't think you had stopped in hawaii yet. you were on air force one with the president. i want to ask you eventually about the trip back. let's watch this. [video clip] >> comments before about joe -- memoirs, most interesting. >> read the first part, too. talk about, the more interesting part is the evaluation of de gaulle. it's rather fascinating. >> that's great footage. i don't recall ever seeing that. >> what was in your mind as you were making the trip? >> i guess we were talking about

-- i think we were, yeah. >> what was in your mind when you were on the plane? >> i sent nixon a memo telling him i thought he was taking a risk taking this trip and then i sent him a second memo saying, you need to take me along, it's my turn. the conservatives looked to me sort of to represent their interest, as bill said, buchanan was the ambassador to the right or whatever it was for the conservative movement. but when i was going there, i mean, the decision had been made, nixon had announced it in july, and now we were in february, before the new hampshire primary. and it was going to be a tremendously interesting trip. by then i was reconciled to , the idea, they elected the president, not me. we got there, and initially, i was doing fine with it until i read the communique. i had not been allowed to participate at all in the

writing of the communique. i think kissinger had done it and when i saw it, rose woods and i were appalled by it. >> who is rose woods? >> the most royal nixonite there was. she came with him right after the case in 1948. had been with him when i was there. 18 years, was family to the nixons. great lady. loyal, courageous, went through every single one of those crises and then some with richard nixon. >> you on your -- you are on your way back from china? >> kissinger had gotten word, i thought the shanghai communication was a sell-out of taiwan. and frankly, a shallow piece of work, concessions all through it. and it embarrassed me. it almost made me a shame so he came back to discuss it. he said what's your problems , with the communique? i said look here, chinese open with a statement about

revolution what we want and we start off with some examination of conscience. i said, japanese, they say japan is militaristic. we don't defend our own, and the part on taiwan, we accept their position. and so it was a sell-out. badly written. you should have had me in there. i would have liked to have written it. we could have stated our side, they state their side. so then he went forward and he came back and he started, henry started ragging me, your conservative friends haven't supported us in the middle east. and then i just got up and put my face about that far from his, and b.s. in the vernacular. and sat down. if you can believe it, i looked over there and it was scowcroft. grinning away. i don't know if he agreed with me, but he enjoyed the encounter. >> why did you say you were

going to resign? >> that is why. i grew up being taught and learning that the worst diplomatic disaster in history was yalta or fdr had signed over the freedom of those 10 countries in eastern europe to soviet and joe stalin into their custody and it was a horror show. i always believed it was a horrendous betrayal. i said, if i had been party to something that's going to do the same thing to the people of taiwan, whom we supported, taiwan, we always supported, and the nationalists, and so i just felt ashamed and disgusted, and i decided to resign, and told my parents when i got home, and sent word to florida, key biscayne, that i wanted to come down and resign, and thankfully, haldeman argued against it and od said, don't do it and

others said don't do it. the president, according to haldeman, was quite prepared initially. he wanted to tell me not to do it but finally he said if he's going to go he's going to go. it reminded me of my friend dick whalen, who walked out at mission bay after the nixon, after nixon's inauguration -- nixon's nomination in miami beach in 1968, and he was a great writer and friend of mine. he walked out of mission bay and sent a letter to the president, shelley picked one up, rose woods, about resigning and i ran to nixon and said, this guy is such a great writer we've got to , get him back. nixon said if he's going to resign now, let him go. if that's the way he feels, let him go. very cold about it. that you go now than in the middle of the campaign and have an explosion. so i think nixon had come to the conclusion that if i wanted to go that badly, maybe i could go over to the campaign or somewhere else but i should go. >> why didn't you go? >> you know, i decided by the weekend, i said, i made my case to the president, haldeman, kissinger, to everybody in the

building, knows what i belief and what i feel, and i want nixon to be reelected so what am i going to accomplish by walking out? i'm not going to have a big press conference or anything. i'm just going to slip out and a friend of mine did, left the administration, bill gavin, i think he went over to work for jim buckley after that. >> this is from your book on page 175. henry lost it. later, sally was back in my office. i cannot take this. i just watched dr. kissinger throw all of the pages across the room. there is a two star general crawling over the floor picking them up. >> i just got an email from her talking about all those days.

the this was is that after cambodian speech and kent state and the huge explosion that took place, nixon sent the troops into cambodia for 60 days, and 30 kilometers, and he wanted a long paper presented on what we had accomplished with that, and the nsc produced a paper, i guess some 6,000 words, so nixon told me, and haldeman told me through nixon, he wants you to rewrite it. henry, as was his custom, would hold off his material long enough so that you couldn't get it in. so he held it off and it was 6,000. it was given to me in the afternoon, out at san clemente and sally and i went to work. i rewrote the 6,000 words all night long. it was about 8:00 in the morning when i got it done and i told

sally to take it down to kissinger's office. that is what she came back and told me. but the odd thing is, nixon, as haldeman writes, he loved the job that i had done, putting these bullet points, weapons captured from the north vietnamese, casualties, exactly how many rockets and mortars and ammunition, it made the case, made the case with the documents and facts and information, made it well instead of one of these long meandering things that you got out of the nsc and nixon said, i want all the papers done like this, in this form, after this, and he said, it was terrific. so i felt very good about it, and after reading haldeman's memoirs -- >> you've got lots of memoirs in here. a couple of points, i'm thinking, this is buchanan's revenge. he's waited all these years to publish all of these memos to say, see, i was right back then.

>> i was stunned by the china trip. but all of these things, there is a certain consistency but , you're right. i had held those for a long time. in my files and everything, and they really represent what i believed in. there is a thread of consistency certainly on political strategy, all the way up through. it worked. it worked. the idea of putting the goldwater people together with the nixon center of the party and goodbye to rockefeller and them and then after you get this bloc go after the folks raised like me and nixon raised his catholic vote from 22 to 55. and we got the southern protestants that they now call the evangelicals where they denounced his southern strategy, all of the natural alliances of ours, it's going to split the

country a bit but we'll end up with the larger half which we did. can you imagine. anybody thinking in 1962, after nixon's last press conference, 10 years later he would win a 49-state landslide? and then -- and then it all, it all came apart. as i said, we rode the rock all the way back up the mountain and it rolled back down on top of us. >> when did you first personally think there was a recording system and when did you first learn about the recording system in the oval office and on the phones? >> i didn't think -- i don't believe i thought there was a recording system. i first learned about it when butterfield, alexander butterfield testified. that was in july 1973. he came up and testified that there was a recording system in the oval office. and i reflected on that and i knew the times the president had called me late at night and he

had conversations where we were joking about various people. and he was sort of letting his hair down so i wrote him a memo saying, i think you ought -- dean had testified. you're going to have to keep the dean tapes, five tapes of conversations with dean. i didn't think they were going to be that damaging to us and keep the tapes with brezhnev and the foreign policy stuff, you really should tape. take the rest out and burn it and shut down this special prosecutor's office now before this thing grows into a monster. and i didn't know it at the time, but nixon, nixon had called in haig and fred -- entertained this idea that he should burn the tapes. they said it would be obstruction of justice. first, i didn't recommend burning subpoenaed tapes. secondly, they were his property, executive privilege existed, everybody knew it and if he simply got rid of them and

just said in effect, impeached and be damned, i think he would have moved right through it and president nixon said, in his memoirs, if he had burned the tapes, as i urged him to do, that he would have survived and i think that's right. >> here's some video, peter jennings was a young man at this time. an anchor on abc. just a little bit, may 9, 1970. it's the buses circling the white house that you write about in your book. let's watch this. [video clip] >> heading south. bumper to bumper buses serve, to guard the immediate area near the white house. the demonstrators kept coming through the morning. the intent was serious. the mood was peaceful. the day was hot. >> why the buses and how many were there and whose idea was it? >> it was may 9.

this was the cambodia-kent state speech where i had worked with the president on, where we invaded cambodia. it was a tremendous shock to clean out the communist sanctuaries in cambodia from which they were attacking americans in south vietnam and there was an explosion on the campuses, and there were riots and out at kent state there was a riot in kent on saturday night. national guard came out on sunday. they burned the rotc building. monday, there was a huge demonstration and the guard fired live ammunition and killed four students. and that exploded on campuses around the country and virtually, i mean, there were hundreds and hundreds of campuses that simply shut down, and this was early, this was early may, and nixon was tremendously shaken by this because he had made this statement, that a woman, nixon had come out of the pentagon after day one, may one, right after the speech, and a woman said it was either her son or husband, i want to thank you, mr. president, for what you're

doing to help my husband stay alive over there and nixon said, they are great young people over there, you should see them. they are terrific. on the other hand, there are these bones -- these bums blowing up campuses and the term bums was tan by the -- was taken by the press for nixon to mean all the demonstrators and all the people who opposed the war and then the killing of the four students at kent state, and this just exploded, and so the crowds came into d.c., coming into d.c., and nixon had a press conference there, he had a press conference friday night, and then he went out that night. i remember the phrase, search light on the lawn. nixon at 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. went out on the lawn with the man that worked for him even up in new york, and he took him over to the lincoln memorial, and there were students wandering around, here comes the president of the united states at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning. nixon tried to start a conversation and some of them said he was talking football.

others said -- nixon sent around to his speech writers a memo of what he tried to communicate what he had tried to say. , but that was the worst period, i call it the gethsemane of the nixon presidency before watergate. he was really down and really broken. i've got the memos in there from pat monihan. i mean, to me, they were just semi-panicked from monihan, you know, saying you have got to take control of all the national guard units in the country. you are commander in chief . you've got to put u.s. army officers in charge in doing all of these things, and -- but there is no doubt that nixon was affected by this and many in the staff, bill safire denounced the speech in his memoirs as did henry kissinger. although haldeman says kissinger had heard the speech and complimented the president before he delivered it. so i just -- that whole story, i have a line in there, i believe

it was at that demonstration, i told somebody, i said, i was on the first floor, i went down to get a pack of cigarettes ran into the 82nd airborne, but i went down there, all of these paratroopers looking around, i would say they were about 10 years younger than me, and the demonstrators are lucky they didn't get through those buses and try to run them into the white house. they would have gotten -- they would have met some real force. >> how many more books do you thank you will write? >> i am just not sure. once i got this done, i started -- i thought of doing a slim book on reagan. i've said what i came to say. >> you have done everything that you want to do?

>> i feel i'm very fortunate to still be around, you know. >> you had open heart surgery at one point? >> it was right after, right after the california primary in 1992. that's why, the guy said, why are you staying? the doctor said i've got to go in for open heart surgery right after the primaries, that you couldn't last. this was a surgery that made me so nervous, when i gave that culture war speech at the convention, whether i really had the energy to do it. >> what was wrong with the heart? >> heart valve was leaking, and it started to deteriorate. the doctor said it will get worse, worse, worse, and suddenly it will take a turn and you get the valve in, just as it makes the turn. >> you mentioned bill safire earlier and i want to show folks bill safire just talking about writing, and, the "new york times" hired him to be a columnist and i want you to put him into context with your brand of conservatism.

[video clip] >> he's like a layer of cake. the top layer is patriot. and beneath that, there is mild paranoia, and beneath that, there is very good people that work with him, and thoughtful and nonverbal abusive. and underneath that, hard liner. >> he was a word smith, wrote speeches, and did his column in "the new york times." where were the two of you on the political spectrum? >> bill safire was regarded when he came aboard, but he had been with nixon in 1960. bill was one of the four or five people when i went to new york, you've got to go see bill safire, come down here and see sandy quinn, who are really loyalists, people he talked to

and they ought to know me. my read on safire was that he was basically a new york liberal republican, very comfortable with rockefeller, lindsey, and nixon. he had worked for nixon. was loyal to him personally. he was a word smith and a writer, but he was on the other side for me in all the arguments, busing and things like that. i was basically very close to being a solid goldwater conservative, and ray price and safire were regarded as, i would say moderately liberal republicans. i remember when bill safire was hired at the end of nixon's first term, frankly, i think partly due to the agnew speech, he told all of these liberal newspapers who were bias and overwhelming so the "new york times" decided they needed a conservative so they hired bill safire and salts burger, he said we need a conservative on the page so, it was in the news summary that bill had been hired

and nixon wrote a little work, session wrote a little note buchanan and haldeman, safire , conservative, somebody tell human events. [laughter] we all had a great laugh at that but bill went on to win a , pulitzer prize. bill is the one that worked on the speech. the famous speech, wage and price controls. the end of bretton woods going , off the gold standard. he went up to campaign, it was a great moment. >> here's a moment that you also write about, this is at pat nixon's funeral in 1993. it's only about 20 seconds. [video clip] >> he felt a tremendous sense of loss because he depended on pat. she was a very strong woman, and she never did leave him or turn her back on him on any of the controversial things he was

involved in. she stuck with him and he leaned on her and depended on her. >> you worked closely with her? >> she was a great lady. >> what did you see in pat nixon and that none of the rest of us all? saw?st of us what did she do? >> she was so down to earth, she called herself ms. ryan, thelma pat ryan nixon so she was in the same little office with rose woods and me and these people would call up. i remember one of them called up and said i would like to talk to vice president nexen. she said, he is busy right now. she said, i am a personal friend of pat nixon. and mrs. nixon would tell us that, and she smoked. i was a chain smoker then. misses nixon, you have a couple -- but she was a wonderful lady, i think she was a very strong lady. she had a good sense of humor.

she was a realist. you know, i just liked her very much. i remember after i testified, watergate testified, came off so well, the president said come on over to the mansion. right after i testified. about 5:00 or 6:00. i was having a party in my office. she comes running up and she waltzes me all around the room, after i testified. but she was reserved, but she was a great lady. julie has written a wonderful book about her. >> what did you think of the media coverage of her and over your lifetime, when do you recognize that the media is being against somebody in politics? what's the give away? >> you mean how was she treated? >> yes. >> well, i think it was simplistic, and sort of plastic -- she just stands ther behind him and doesn't, you know, doesn't move and has the

same, maintains the same posture and facial expression, and it wasn't her at all. when do you discover that the media -- when i first went to work for nixon, it was early 1966. safire says, regularly, the press is the enemy. remember that, you know. i worked at the globe democrat, a lot of the reporters and others were liberals and moderates and a few conservatives and things, and i just didn't believe they were the enemy. in that nixon had gotten horrible press for years but i , think even all of us, you take ray price, he was with the herald tribune, i think a lot of them came to believe they really had it in for nixon. who is an intellectual, i quote the fellow, you cannot be an intellectual, a member of the intelligence in new york, and have voted for richard nixon. you just cannot be that.

i didn't understand it. i think he was a progressive republican on domestic policy. he did run a populist small conservative campaign. law and order, things like that , but he was an internationalist, not a globalist, and in all of these things, they were not that different from kennedy's positions, you know. jack kennedy's. in some ways, jack kennedy was more conservative in terms of bear any burden and all the rest of it, and yet, there was just a hostility to nixon that i had never seen before until we get the trump -- until we get to trump. of course, president trump fights differently. trump just fights back daily. >> i have got a b -- got a piece of tape i've got to show you. we're close to the end of this. >> sure. >> i don't know if you remember. this this is october 24, 1999. see if you remember this. >> tomorrow, pat buchanan is announcing he'll be a candidate

for the presidency on the reformed party. >> i think it's ridiculous. >> why? >> i guess he's an anti-semite. he doesn't like the blacks. he doesn't like the gays. it's just incredible that anybody could embrace this guy. and maybe he'll get 25% of the vote and staunch right wacko vote. i'm not even sure it's right. it's just a wacko vote and i just can't imagine that anybody can take him seriously. >> what do you think when you see that? >> that's when we announced. i thought we could beat trump for the nomination and i think we could. >> reformed party? >> reformed party. we got the nomination. but i look upon those with trump, you find out these are terms of endearment. i look at that, and i do laugh. i will say this. a number of years ago, i got a call from donald trump, and he was very gracious and mentioned some things he had said way back

there. he said he regretted it and was very gracious about it and i supported him almost, a hundred percent supported a lot of his positions. was elated that he came out with those positions. voted for him in the virginia primary, voted for him in the general election so i hope the president is a success. >> whose more honest in public, in the public like donald , trump or pat buchanan? who is more honest? when you said what you said, how often were you not telling the truth, and how often is he not telling the truth? >> i don't think -- i think trump says what he believes and tweets what he believes. >> did he believe you were a hitler follower? >> it's what he felt at the time. i think that was partly motivated by the fact that if he had designs on the reform party

nomination, that he was out of the race and it might have looked like, i don't know his motives, might look like that i had gotten in and he wasn't getting in. >> he called you a wacko. >> i wish that was the worst thing i have been called. >> when you've taken points, i mean, points of view, have you always told the truth? >> let's say this. when i worked for richard nixon, i'm an assistant to the president, and ronald reagan, as i said, what you do is, i argue for a policy, inside, and once the president decides, you've got three choices. you go out and defend the policy the president stated, you keep your mouth shut, or you get out. now, clearly i would explain policies, like let me give you nixon. i traveled with him to the middle east 50 years ago, almost exactly at the time of the six-day war. we went through africa. he was a critic of vietnam of

johnson's policy. he defended it everywhere he was because he saw himself as almost an attorney for the government of the united states. obligated to defend the policy and explain the policy. and it was really something to behold. i think he felt good about that. he was great friends with rusk, a great admirer. i mean, look, let me say this. you don't go out and tell a lie but do you say here's why the president is doing this, here's why he thinks the china trip is good, and you don't go out and say, i think he's going to blow up in our face. there are certain obligations, and, in effect, we're all attorneys for the man sitting there in the oval office, we're giving the best defense that we can. i wrote the defense. i got it hanging on my wall, defense,s watergate may 27, 1973. i argued all night with haig, they are going in and out. i said this doesn't sound right. but i got a note from president

nixon, hanging on my wall, it says, al told me you were a great devil's advocate. thanks for all you do above and beyond the call of duty. that's the job. it is a great job. it's not bad at all. >> this book is called nixon's white house wars, battles that made and broke a president and divided america forever. our guest has been patrick j. buchanan. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> all q&a programs are available on our website or as a podcast at c-span.org. >> next sunday on q&a, corey inspectorormer deputy with the new york police department, once a cup, the street, the law. 2:00 a.m. pacific

10. at what isa look live monday on the c-span networks. at 10:00 a.m., a forum on economic and financial sanction -- sanctions on north korea hosted by the institute of peace. a christians united for israel forum hosted by mike pompeo and john bolton. is live a.m., c-span2 at the christians united for israel forum. 3:00enate gaveled in at p.m. to work on a nomination to the ninth circuit appeals. on c-span 389:30, a review of the first year of mexican -- of the mexican president administration. at 3:00 p.m., a forum on authoritarian governments and how criminal organizations abuse their access to the u.s.