front lines of the republican civil war and the rise of president trump." as always, we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and that are as well. "washington journal" is next. ♪ a live view of the u.s. capitol and when congress gavels in this week, a number of issues will be front and center, and the nancy pelosi, who again today is scheduled to talk to steven mnuchin in a bid to reach a deal on the u.s. debt ceiling. the house and senate scheduled recess at the end of this week and are not expected to return until after labor day. wednesday, robert mueller, testifying before to a house committees on his report. you can watch it on the c-span networks or listen to it on c-span radio. it is sunday, july 21.

ahead, after a week of presidential tweets and statements, charges of racism and a renewed debate on who comes to this country, we want to focus on the issue of illegal immigration. there are an estimated 40 million u.s. citizens who emigrate here legally and are officially americans. our question, does it make the u.s. stronger or weaker? a reminder, we're focusing on the issue of those who come to this country legally. if you say stronger, (202) 748-8000. if you say weaker, (202) 748-8001. you can join us on social media, including twitter, at c-span wj or facebook, journal@c-span.org -- facebook, facebook.com/cspan. a pew researchom poll. 91% of democrats see violence in the next war of words.

toxic wordsk of between president trump and his foes, there is worry now of violence. supporters from both sides could act on the politically charged rhetoric with violence. democrats were more worried than republicans. they want politicians to cool it while majorities in both parties say that official should avoid heated language and the view is more widely held among democrats that republicans. at can read the full story the washington examiner website. on the campaign trail in north carolina, the president had this response from the chant in the audience. >> at a press conference just this week, when asked whether she supported al qaeda, our enemy, that's our enemy, they that very serious problem

we take care of, but they only seem to come along somewhere. she refused to answer. she didn't want to give an answer to that question. omar blamed the united states for the crisis in venezuela. think of that one. and she looks down with contempt ,n the hard-working american saying that ignorance is pervasive in many parts of this country. obviously and importantly, omar has a history of launching vicious anti-semitic screeds. [crowd chanting "send her back back"]o] -- her host: that from the president.

the full speech is available on -- website, www.c-span.org our website, c-span.org. we want to focus on legal immigration and asked the question whether you think it makes the u.s. stronger or weaker. going back to a pew research number ofgrowing republican saying that the u.s. risks losing its identity of two open to foreigners. the majority say that their openness to people around the country is essential to who they are around the nation but the is 6% lower than it was last year. this is about the shift of opinion among republicans. you can read the full survey on the pew research website. getting to your phone calls, rob joins us from boca raton, florida. the question -- does legal immigration make the u.s. stronger or weaker? rob, your response. i'm surprised you are

asking such a fair question, but good for you. it totally makes us stronger. all you have to do is look around and see all the people inm different countries here florida, people from all of these different south american countries, central american countries that are working, anding harder than ever paying taxes and that is the reason why we should be allowing more people to come out of the .hadows and pay taxes that's the irony of the whole thing. sayly, i'm just going to that the trump show that we have been seeing for the last what, three years or whatever? it's just a continuation of another tv show he was on and he is conducting a show -- she's hisring up for incompetence, for his lack of information, his lack of

knowledge, his lack of study, his lack of interest. he is really only doing in office what he feels like he wants to do. , he's notking studying, he's not knowing the issues. he is running a tv show for the country and it is pretty horrendous. want stay on the line, i to go back to something that steph night from axial's wrote -- americans, majority minority, i mention this because you are from florida, one of four states where nonwhite americans are the majority of the population or , bying, making this point 2045 the u.s. as a whole is projected to become a -- majority minority country. your thoughts on that? no problemht, i got with people that want to come to this country, work hard, be taxes, b on the payroll, come out of the shadows.

they have these children, the jury, they should be allowed to -- i mean, i have met people in my days here that have education and can contribute and it's just insanity that we don't allow the hard-working people, not just hispanics but from all over, that can contribute and have higher education and are ready to join the work worse -- it's insanity that we keep these people from artisan baiting and being taxpayers. from participating and being taxpayers. those listening on radio, serious has our program every sunday morning. don, you're joining us from overland park, kansas. you say that legal immigration makes the u.s. weaker. -- wealler: we had that have a severe housing shortage

at the moment, driving rent way up. thecarbon emissions in atmosphere are multiplied when people come to america when they come from countries where they have a very low carbon footprint to america, where we have a very high carbon footprint. it is going to take a lot of energy spent to build highways and housing and cut down forests and so forth in order to build the housing. of i think it'll cause a lot chaos, actually, in the long run . right now we have a lot of , i don't know, seems like they are doing fairly well, but i don't know how well that will continue in the long run, a lot of people that don't communicate very well with each other. host: thank you for the call. the president short while ago, up meet -- early and tweeting from new jersey, saying that the

great state of west virginia is setting record numbers and doing really well and that when he became president, it was shut down and closed for business. tom, from rutland, vermont, you say that legal immigration makes the u.s. weaker. explain. well, i spent years going to florida. turned into a place where i feel like i'm in a third world country. hardly anybody in certain areas speak english. i have had several unpleasant experiences down there where i used to enjoy it so much every year. now i'm wondering if i even want to travel down there again because i feel like i'm going to a different country. aboutwe have heard americans feeling like a stranger in their own country. would you apply that to you? caller: in certain areas. the problem is, people are not assimilating.

friendsot all kinds of who are immigrants and over the assimilated.ve they are the finest people on the earth. it's just too much too fast. so many other people that can't get jobs and stuff because the wages are so low. host: we will go to gym, joining us from tucker, georgia. stronger or weaker for legal immigration? i think that legal immigration in the long run excess stronger. but you know, it's like, when you work out or whatever, there is going to be some pain involved. you know the term, no pain, no gain. it applies here initially. and to the previous caller's

point, i have felt like a stranger in my own country in fact at times. , the folks whole the here realize intricacies of living in a multicultural society themselves . then they come to realize that we need, we need americans to help us at her understand, you know, the parameters of the culture, if you will. i also want to say that you are talking about -- earlier you were talking about some of the other, some of the other cultures the come along with the immigrants and i have to say that i think president trump is really missing the point on our constitutional freedoms of association. a lot of the groups that come in

, you know, we have a constitutional right to associate with different groups. i think he's missing that point. i think that kind of missing the the way that senator from the 50's, mccarthy, that's how he betrayed his country. as such us -- it's not just immigration, i think, but there's also freedom of association involved and i think president trump is missing that point. host: jim, thank you for the call. this piece from "the atlantic," pointing out that there are 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants living in the country, that's an estimate, and upwards of 45 million who are here, foreign-born residents now officially u.s. residents. we are focusing on the latter number and asking the question whether or not you think legal immigration makes america stronger or weaker. send us a tweet, by the way, @cspanwj, we will read them in

just a moment. theressman tom malinowski fourth the resolution condemning the president about his remarks about the so-called squad, the four freshman representatives and what some call the racist to eat that the president sent out about a week ago, talking about his own family heritage on the house floor. we carry it live on c-span television. let's watch. [video clip] >> when i saw the president pass comments over the weekend, my first thought was that my politics met -- may not always be the same as the congresswomen who was attacking, but all of us are americans's and unlike most of them, i was actually born in a foreign country. to support and defend the constitution of the united states when i was 10 years old my mother. when i was sworn in to be a citizen five years after we came here from poland. does the president think i

should go back because i am an immigrant who disagrees with his policies? there are 44 million american citizens that were born summer else and new americans, we know what it means to be america -- american because we know the alternative. many of us come from broken countries. a communist country in my case, broken by communism and in many cases broken by leaders who did just what we are condemning today, using race and religion to divide people. the president may be doing it cynically. he once the drama, once the reality show. in my district we have to deal with the reality that these words are dangerous. every synagogue in my district has arms -- armed security or is struggling with the question of whether to have it. every mosque has state police coming to friday prayers. we know the words that the president uses to drive up his sparks ton be like the gasoline of disturbed minds in our country. the man that massacred jews in

pittsburgh was obsessed with jewsnt caravans, blaming for helping refugees. the man that murdered muslims in christchurch, new zealand believe that immigrants were invaders. these fringe haters have always been with us. never before have their twisted thoughts been legitimized by the highest leaders in our land. yesterday after the president's daily stormeo-nazi or website gloated that this is the kind of white nationalism they voted for. is thisave to decide, the kind of politics that we thatin our country? host: was from the house for earlier this week and our question, do you think that legal immigration stronger ors. weaker? a tweet from of you are saying that legal immigration is fine, but the illegal kind proxies backdoors for illegal immigrants that is in. this from steve --

matthew iglesias, cofounder of fox, also writing about immigration, saying that the main sources and occupations likely to employ immigrants have changed over time but the story has run the same from the , larger and more diverse population supports -- host: matthew iglesias, having lived in 2003 -- in washington, d.c. since 2003. your view on this, ken? stronger, absolutely. i'm 71 years old and i have seen

quite a lot of law enforcement in new york for most of my adult life and have watched the demographics shift. you if you aret here legally, you are an asset. if you're here illegally, you are a debit. that is largely because people who are here illegally and up working off the books. the major villain in this situation is the employer, the person who deliberately and happily hires people who are here illegally because he can pay them half or two thirds of what he would pay someone who is a legal worker. i must note that my family is from northern spain. i'm very white, i have blue eyes. i understand that there are people who feel that the, the melding of the different races is disturbing. i include my mother in that.

she's deceased. was justelt that it not proper and i said to her -- well, mom, you can go back to spain -- and she said well, you're right. let me leave it at that and thank you. host: this from rebecca, saying -- .ost: send us a tweet, @cspanwj front page of "the washington "this is what it looks like, twitter storm and its aftermath." the president and a number of supporters writing "president trump's own top aides did not think he fully understood what sunday when he fired off a trio of racist tweets." "when he returned to the white house, --

frontthat this morning, page of "the washington post." back here from calls. north carolina, andrew, joining us to talk about whether legal

immigration makes america stronger or weaker. your answer to the question is? caller: weaker in this day and age. and here's why. it used to be that immigrants coming to the united states wanted to assimilate into the u.s. system. that's no longer the case it seems. to ask --s. is being they are not adopting to the american way of free enterprise, we now have to adapt to their belief system and change towards their believe system. that's what troubles me. the call.k you for bill is next. orange park, florida. good morning. i will tell you what, i have mexican and filipino grandchildren and i wouldn't trade them for anything. but the four people causing the

most problems, them for ladies, that's a cancer in this country. i'm sorry, but that's way i feel. immigrants used to work for me. i used to be a supervisor in a plan some of my best workers were immigrants from poland and yugoslavia. but that has changed. now they let anybody in and these people here, the ones that used to be here, they don't even want these illegal immigrants. host: fred has this tweak -- -- tweet -- host: send us your tweet, [video clip] .-@cspanwj general george

washington, he wrote about the issue of immigration. i want to share with you just part of what he wrote in december of 1783. 1783 that from december of , the words of general george washington. back to your phone calls about legal immigration. vernon is joining us from missouri. good morning. caller: putting most of the people calling and don't understand your question. illegal immigrants, i'm totally against. they didn't come here legally. come here legally, you

agree with the way this country has been set up. we are all immigrants. we are all children of immigrants who came into this system legally. legally, theye in -- well, theye shouldn't be here. host: so, do they and make the u.s. stronger question like you are saying yes? caller: legal immigrants, yes, definitely. matt is joining us from baltimore, maryland. you said weaker? no, no, no, i said stronger for legal, weaker for the illegal. my father came here in 1915. from both world wars. i've fought in the second world war. very definitely, immigrants are a positive element. the problem is the last gentleman was right on the wall. when they are illegal, they

always have that fear that they will because and deported. thereby they don't really contribute. i would like to say when other thing, "the washington post misquoted the president, when he said that the squad should go back to their home countries. they cut it off there. theyhe finally said was can clean up the problems they and then could come back to the united states and clean up the problems they say we have here. that's the entire quote. i'm very tired of this partial quoting, misquoting, i don't even like to use the fake newsline. as i said, i'm 92 years old in this is one wonderful country. it's done wonders for me and my family.

and my innumerable kids, grandkids, and great kids. long may the flag wave and i have very little regard for the dissenters unless they do it legally. host: thank you for the call. the president just a moment ago with this tweet -- host: i mentioned david from, who wrote akin april this year, a former speechwriter for president george w. bush, the 43rd president. on american immigration policy wrote the following -- americans need to rethink the asylum policy if unemployment, poverty, or disorder in your home country qualifies you for asylum, hundreds of millions of people qualify, even though virtually none of them have been targeted by the kind of states on's best rate -- state-sponsored persecution the asylum laws were written to address.

if liberals insist that only fascists will enforce borders, voters will hire fascists to do the job. jackie is next, joining us from st. petersburg, florida. caller: hi, good morning. host: good morning. caller: hey. i just wanted to share my life with myce, which was parents who came here from cuba. host: when did they come here? caller: 1962? host: was that part of the so-called peter pan caller: exactly, -- peter pan question mark caller: exactly -- peter pan? caller: exactly, exactly. my mother couldn't even speak english when she came here. she learned to speaking less, became a naturalized citizen. this is why i don't understand

why it's so difficult for people not to get this. you are in this country. you must be proud of it and respect it. thank you, jackie. from the migration policy institute, a look at the 1965 immigration and nationality act. it abolished national origins admittedith immigrants based on the relationship of u.s. citizens, lawful permit resident or employer, with on the number of immediate relatives admitted each year. that's the 1965 act with more information on the migration policy center. lonnie joins us from quinlan, texas. good morning. caller: how you doing? weakernking it makes us with these illegals coming over

here, crossing the border, because of they want to come over, come over legally. don't sneak across. going to break the law on one thing? maybe we break it on all things? as far as the squad, trump is just speaking the truth. they don't like this country? get out. him, call himt all kinds of names, you know? nobody says much about that. you, callat you -- , youe cheaters and liars got a have respect for the president. it don't matter who it is. if you don't, maybe you need to get out of this country. you for the call. bill is next from north palm beach, florida. good morning, bill. caller: how are you?

host: fine, thank you. iller: i want to mention, agree with the gentleman who called earlier, legal immigration is good for the country. regarding president washington's weather, the is one thing that's a little different. we didn't have a welfare state back then. now we have a welfare state and i do believe it has been the position mainly of the left that they would like to flood the country in a way with illegal immigration with all of these promised benefits. that's all going to hurt mainly the legal people who are here as well as all americans. i just had a russian, you know, it would be nice -- i don't why you as do this, but the suggestion would be to have debates with a pro and con on at the same time. i don't know if they refuse to come on? if it's going to be an opposite opinion or not, but it would be beneficial to at least get that.

the spin that people put on chemie people in the dark a little bit. about halftuned, and an hour we will have democratic and republican pollsters looking at the impact of the events of this past week and the mueller testimony on wednesday and the 2020 election. you will get democratic and republican points of view coming up at 8:00 eastern time. so tune in. kenneth, joining us next from georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to make a few comments. you know, you started off the program with a guy from florida whose very proud of the illegal aliens who pay taxes. i think that people need to understand that if you have a tax id number, that's not like a social security number. a tax id number is all you need to set up and start doing illegal business. payingou are not

medicare, medicaid, or any of the other things american workers pay. i'm getting tired of going to the store at the top of the hill watching the thousands of thousands of dollars being sent back to mexican people that live there to be put in the bank down there. do thaton they had to was because they cannot get bank accounts because they don't have a social security number or a birth certificate. thank you. going back to a tweet from the president this past week, so interesting -- distressed week -- host: we are focusing on the question of immigration.

mitch mcconnell, whose wife is from taiwan, was asked about the issue. [video clip] your wifeone said to that she should go back to her country is of her criticism of a policy, would you not concerned that racist? >> she came here at age eight legally, not speaking word of english and has realized the american dream. all of us realize that this is a process of renewal that has gone on in this country for a long time and is good for america and we should continue it. >> would be racist for them to say go back to her country? >> as i said, legal immigration fulfilling of the american dream and the people that come here have a lot of

ambition and energy and 10 to do very well and invigorate our country. my wife is a good example of that. use the wordsver to go back to where they came from? >> look, i'm obviously a big fan of legal immigration. it's been a big art of my family for a quarter of a century. the country and watch the contributions that have been made by new arrivals and the children of new arrivals , it has been reinvigorating america for hundreds of years. i'm a big fan of legal immigration. host: that from the senate republican leader, mitch mcconnell. legal immigration, do you do you think it makes america stronger or weaker? this from another viewer --

host: another viewer -- host: jamie from seven, maryland, good morning. caller: i think that everybody can pretty much agree that legal immigration makes the country stronger. he legal immigration makes us weaker. most of us here answering this question are answering it from, from uninformed facts about legal immigration. most people's idea of illegal immigration are brown forks -- brown folks jumping over the border from neighboring countries, not really realizing illegal immigration comes from people who have

overstayed their visas. it would look a lot different. i think that most folks idea of either legal immigrants are brown folks and that's what they don't like. thei think if they knew true number of, you know, those who make up legal immigration, their opinion and outlook look different. that we are again not really honest about the true facts. host: sounds like you're listening on c-span radio, 90.1 fm in the washington area. caller: yes, sir. host: check out our podcast app to listen to this program other c-span programming. 6:00 for those of you in a west coast, tim alberta will join us with a book for he looks at the republican party and president trump, it's called "american carnage, the rise of president

."ump freeport, illinois. willie is next. you say immigration, legal immigration makes the u.s. weaker. why? >> the reason i say so, when you look at america where we are prisonsly, and our own we have overcrowding. we still have petitions with prisoners who are in jail, incarcerated and so forth. if we were to bring in extra people, we would be leaving also crimes, to extra crimes, putting more people in the systems for different laws and so forth that they are not aware of. coming into the country, not saying that if they came in here taxesgan to work and pay and so forth what it would do for the economy, but also looking at the burden on the others, so i say weaker.

host: going back to the words of david from, the full essay is from april of this year on the atlantic website. from,that from david former speechwriter for george w. bush. theatlatic.com. jeff, stronger or weaker on the

issue of legal immigration? raise a few i'ma points. if you look at our history, a few presidents had the foresight moratorium to where there is no immigration for a set number of years. in order for the people who are to be counted, to be identified, and to assimilate. that's an important ingredient in the melting pot defense of immigration. you have to have assimilation and you have to stop it because of the abuse. we have had so much abuse of our immigration that we all have to millionhere are 20 minimum illegals in our country. to be honest, take stock of your own home, your own country.

get everybody identified and nobody can come in for 10 years. 20 years. whatever they decide. need to stop the leak. then we can fix the illegal problem by having nobody come in . eventually weed out the illegals and get them identified. and then reestablish a quota where we have the wall up. of you don't have millions people on identified. yes, immigration needs to be stopped. we are overflowing, we are so diversified. diversity is not something america needs. we need to come together. host: the president was on the campaign trail this week in north carolina. from mark,

host: a couple of collars have been phoning in on the words of general george washington from september of 1783. again, these are the words -- host: bacteria calls. richard, st. petersburg, florida, good morning. caller: good morning. i believe that legal immigration is fine.

that is basically were the bulk of us are our family came from. either legal immigration needs to be stopped, no matter what the cost is. my reason for saying this is twofold. , if let's say they just took the money that they to take care of the people coming across the border illegally -- think about the american people. the bridges, the schools, what could have been built with that. number two, by letting them come -- ok, theyople say can do it, i can do it. ofcreates a bigger flow people into america. all of the people who have been coming in talking -- excuse me, all the people who have been calling in and talking, the bulk of the america you are hearing from agreed.

legal immigration is ok. we will go to jeff, joining us next from cartersville, georgia. your view on this? jeff, good morning. hello? well, we will go then to joe, joining us from san antonio, texas. caller: good morning. yes. i'm a bit 50-50. it's important that immigration is incremental to the strength of our society and has been since the beginning of our democracy. but me for example, when i graduated in texas with a community health agree, there were a lot of requirements when applying for certain jobs that required me to speak spanish to be eligible to get the job. to me this heartening because i had put in all this time for education and was well i'll fight enough to perform the task before me at the job but i wasn't able to speak spanish.

i just feel like that is one way that legal immigration is good, but you must be able to speak english in this country. i know that part of it is to pass an english test, but you can also get a green card that having to speak english. that's why i'm kind of 50-50 on it. joe, thank you for the call. keith, you are met -- next. caller: of course legal immigration is wonderful. it's what has made and makes this country. it's really simple. panic. white we have become a majority minority country. 2040, 2045. the genies out of the bottle, it can't be stopped. please be careful. there was a caller from texas that said if you don't respect the president you don't belong here. even if you are a legal immigrant.

we know that is nativist, racism stuff. of course the caller is going to say that. you are no -- under no obligation to think like me, but you certainly don't think that. it's just more white panic. the other thing, illegal immigrants in chicago -- yes, we have hispanic illegal immigrants. indigenoustually people. they are americans. they are not u.s. citizens. they have that proximity that allows them to come to the border. got like people in europe, to the strongest country in your area, they put their lives in jeopardy to do that. we took the cubans who came from, you know, communism. it's about race.

host: where is your family from, originally, do you know? the whites had of my family, including a slave owner, england. the rest of my family, of course, africa and the caribbean. i'm african-american. are allsh immigrants over chicago. illegals. they do not speak english. also, we have a ton of asian immigrants. canadian. and another group that's russian. have some of the worst crime and human trafficking and drug dealing. .ost: we believe that there asian-american population among the fastest-growing of those coming to this country legally. this headline from "the washington times," elon omar vowing to be a nightmare for trump. here are some of the details --

crowd chanting center back resounding

host: again, the story is available online. in march, representative omar had these remarks. [video clip] >> because here's the truth, here's the truth. for far too long we have lived with the discomfort of being a second-class citizen. and frankly, i am tired of it. every single muslim in this country should be tired of it. [applause] care was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties. so, you can't just say that today someone is looking at me strange. that i'm going to try to make myself look pleasant.

you have to say that this person is looking at me strange, i am not comfortable with it, i am going to go talk to them and ask them why. because that is the right you have. [applause] so, there are, there are people -- and hassan is on the right track. right?ways good, i say you can't hate up close. you can't hate up close. anytime you have an opportunity to go and talk to someone, the chances of them hating you lesson. so, that is a practice we should all adopt. host: back in march, representative omar in minnesota. the president on july 16 with this tweet --

week of tweets, debate, and controversy in political circles asking the question about legal immigration. mike, you are next, new york city, good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i think legal immigration makes it safer, but that's not the issue they have been fighting about. we cannot do anything to help our ally. remember the miners crying in the persianeras in gulf? iranian saying that if your soldiers want to come here, they should wear a diaper. this is an important issue. thank you, c-span. host: thank you. tim -- i'm sorry, ken, lancaster, good morning.

like the don't even way that this is headed. illegal immigration is subsidized to a certain extent. this country cannot ask -- support all of these new people legally and illegally. for illegal immigration? how is it possible, just because andle from central america mexico stay at the border, they walk to america to come to this country and it's ok when so many americans are struggling? you have got these detention centers they say is overcrowded, so they make more detention centers. three catered meals per day, dr. on staff. what's the incentive not to come? pretty much a lot of these politicians in the upper class even ce legal immigration. thank you for the call. if you watch the florida debate this past week before the

majority of congress led by democrats and a handful of republicans condemning the president in what they called his racist tweet -- here's the quote from ronald reagan, one day before leaving the white house, where he became a private citizen in january of 1989. january 19 he had this to say, courtesy of "the reagan library there felt like [video clip] -- library. [video clip] the world because unique among nations we draw our strength from every corner of the world and by doing so we continuously renew and enrich our nation. here in america we breathe life into tree and, we create the future and the world follows us into tomorrow. thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity, we are a nation forever young, forever bursting with energy and new ideas and always on the cutting edge,

always leading the world to the next frontier. this quality is vital to our future as a nation. to newver close the door americans, our leadership in the world would soon be lost. one of his final addresses to the country, speech to the white house -- in front of the white house and that again is courtesy of the reagan library. julio is joining us from brooksville, florida. on the issue of legal immigration, your view? good morning. caller: morning, how you doing? host: fine, how are you? caller: good. i have a problem with everybody in the white house. you have people living in the streets, rats crawling on them. we will have epidemics of all kinds of diseases. they don't care about that, they are worried about people coming in, taking care of them better than our own people. they want the vote. people got to understand that. the more they let in, the more they get.

they get the delegate vote, they get everything. but they are more worried about that are illegal. you can come in legally. .yeing got a problem with that come in legally. we need the help. that'san economy unbelievable right now. i'm 62 years old. blind in one eye, got a job, that's amazing. host: are you from the u.s., born here, emigrated? caller: i was born in the you united states. my family wasn't, but they came over legally. it's got to be legal. people are paying money every month to become legal. but they are letting people on top of them and it's crazy. go to any big city in the united states and you are going to say tents everywhere. rats crawling on people. nancy pelosi drives by these people.

if she gave a dam she would take care of it. host: we will leave it there. my joins us next from san diego. -- mike joins us next from san diego. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. my grandparents were immigrants. half sicilian, english, french canadian, scottish, iroquois. the words at the bottom of the statue of liberty is what every true american should support. trump is a fascist and if anybody could watch ac 360, yesterday, the professor from harvard that was speaking about trump, that man hit it on the head. any true american in my opinion cannot support trump. he is not what america is about. for your callu

and for all of your calls and comments. tim alberta will be with us in about one hour to talk about the president and the republican party. our sunday roundtable is just ahead. we will go next now to gloria, joining us from texas. good morning, welcome to the program. good.: thank you for taking my call. i want to relay the message that a lot of our american people do not know. about coming into the united is -- myy son-in-law family is from the philippines and we had to go through the process of applying for immigration and it does make america stronger. the working people build the bases of the american way of life. you for your call. in his announcement, the former

mayor of san antonio, former housing secretary of the obama administration, holy and castro, discussing his own heritage. this was part of our road to the white house campaign 24/7. -- campaign 2020 coverage. [video clip] lookaround this nape -- >> around this neighborhood. there are no front runners born here. with big dreams and hard work, i have always believed that anything is possible in this country. this community is a community like so many others across the nation. a community of good and humble people. people who go to work early and stay late. at more than one job so that they can provide for their family. when they go to bed at night, they say local prayers. they want their children to do well, they want good health, they want the dignity that comes from a good job and the peace of

mind that comes from being able to retire on their own terms. this is a community built i immigrants. [cheers and applause] families from mexico, germany, other countries. a community also built by native americans -- "cheers and applause] families who work to build our future, who built our country at the randolph air force base. today this community represents america's future. diverse, fast-growing, optimistic. a place where people of different backgrounds come together to create something truly special. and i am proud to call myself a son of san antonio. a sampling of the

campaign announcements. holy and castro who talked about his own immigration story, born and raised here in the u.s., former mayor of san antonio -- tuscaloosa,, from your view on legal immigration? i did as good, but your name, mr. peters, thank you, forgot your name, but i like mr. castro's speech, he's right. but let me ask the president this one thing -- should all the people that came here go back to straighten their countries out? you know the only people not identified as coming here illegally are african-americans. brought here to build this country for the european immigrants. why don't they go back? all the immigrants. .specially mitch mcconnell

go back to those countries. this is the united states of america. america, ifa, south you are in america, from guatemala you can still come here too. host: ok, robert. ray, san benito, texas. caller: good morning, sir. i have a comment. you have a lot of collars, but i actually worked in one of these places starting in 1998 and i worked there for many years. the thing is this -- i had to do a lot of crooked stuff and that's why i don't work there anymore. seeing who was an adult and who was a child, and it depended on the time of the year. i was told to overlook and bring

in these adults, bring in these gang members without saying anything. they would tell me, just turn around. the reunification was more important for the people who used to work there. host: when was this? caller: this was started since a long time ago in 1998. a biging is that there is misunderstanding why people think that everybody that comes from central america is humble. there are a lot of gang members that come in. whoe are people, adults, they trick us because they come here with a plan. these kids that come in, they are not their parents. everybody thinks that everybody that comes from central america is humble. these are people with a plan. a lot of people don't know these things. these kids that actually stay there, they haven't made.

they have everything that they need, doctors, i doctors, dentists. suffering.k they are they are not suffering. they have a good. host: thank you. we have devoted the first hour of today's washington journal to the issue of legal immigration. the conversation continues. you can do so online at facebook.com. we have two perspectives on campaign 2020. joining us at the table will be democratic pollster ben winston and republican pollster b.j. martino. later, tim alberta, his new book, american carnage: on the front lines of republican civil war and the rise of president trump. congressman derek kilmer of washington state will talk about the role of the house democratic caucus.

[video clip] >> a group of democratic numbers in the house who are forward-looking, pro-innovation, pro-economic growth. there are a lot of new members, but that is not why we're called the new democrats. of the 40 seats in the house that flipped from republican to democrat, 42 of those members are members of the new democratic coalition. se call ourselves the new dem because we try to look at old problems through a new lens. there is a lot of focus on redistributive policies, but our focus is how do you grow that economic pie and make sure everybody can earn a slice of it? a lot of times in washington, d.c., the debate is on one side looking at government as always the problem and on the other side seeing government as always the solution. we look at it, how do we reinvent government?

we are now 103 members strong. that makes us the largest ideological coalition within the house democratic caucus chair we have some terrific new members. military veterans, business leaders, and even an nfl linebacker. it is a great coalition that is working hard on behalf of the american people. >> would you say you are a moderate? >> i am often described that way. on economic policies, our focus is how do you grow that economic pie? >> robert mueller testifies in front of congress on wednesday on russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. our coverage starts on c-span3, listenat c-span.org, or for free with the c-span radio

app. audio in thereport search box on the top of the website to listen to the audio of the report. >> "washington journal" continues. campaign 2020.t a busy weekend in washington. this weekend, ben winston, democratic pollster and strategist. and b.j. martino, a republican gop strategist. guest: it was quite a roller coaster for the president this week. the tweets that happened a week ago set aside a series of events that ultimately don't serve the party that well, but at the end of the day, the president's job approval, and the way that

voters view his role in the rolemy and republicans' in the economy is not going to fundamentally change the dynamic leading into the 2020 elections. we have experienced in this town seeminglyeks of mammoth events, often times caused by tweets that we think is going to change the dynamic, and unless or until we see numbers shift significantly come i suspect most americans are going to view these events in retrospect the way they view many other events, which is through a partisan filter. host: you don't think this week felt different than previous weeks in which there has been the roller coaster in the news cycle? it felt different in the sense that you actually saw the house move to action.

the many ways speaker pelosi has attempted to keep the house in check and not go after the president in stepping towards the impeachment process. they certainly felt the need to do something this week. and put their voices on the record. i think that is what felt different in many ways. republicanw a lot of members vote and some speak the president's tweets and statements this week. that is slightly different than what we have seen before. we have seen republicans here and there criticized the president. we note voters, this is baked into the president's view. i don't think this fundamentally changes voters perception of who the president is. have done for the

georgetown institute of politics and public affairs back in april of this year, half of voters in the country already find the president's words insulting and rude. you have another quarter of the electorate who say he tells it like it is. you have the rest who are in the middle. who say what he says bothers me, but things are going well in this country. to that last point, does it in any way move the needle? guest: that is a difficult question. we have to give it some time to see how these specific events play out over the next few weeks and months. i would agree with bj on a few points. president trump dominated the headlines again, as he tends to do. whether that is positive or negative for the democratic party concerns work both ways. given the coverage of the president and the criticism he has received from republicans in

congress and republican voters is probably good for the democratic party, but it is hard to say that this specific event moved the needle in terms of changing his approval rating, changing his chances for reelection. what i think this does and other events over the past few months, continuing to contribute to an atmosphere that favors democrats going into 2020. it is just one more item on the votersat a lot of swing are looking at when they head towards 2020. whether it is this event or a larger list of things, it is something we will look back out next year as a turning point or part of a trend. this sunday isws this headline from the washington post, twitter storm and its aftermath by a team of reporters from the washington post, including michael share,

ashley parker, writing the following, president trump's own top aides did not think he fully understood what he had done last sunday when he fired off a trio of racist tweets before a trip to his golf course. kellyanne conway felt compelled they werem why leading newscasts around the country, upsetting allies and opponents. telling the four congresswoman to go back to the places from which they came it a painful historical note. trump acted alone, impulsively following his gut to the dark side of american politics, and now the country would have to pick up the pieces. the damage control did not save elected republicans from their chronic struggle to mp's excesses.

democrats demanded a reckoning. the white house would mobilize an intensive operation, putting trump repeatedly on the phone to keep his members in line. at 7:58 this morning, the president with this tweet, the washington post story with its phony sources who do not exist is fake news. the only think people were talking about is the record-setting crowd and tremendous enthusiasm, far greater than the democrats. you will see in 2020. caller: when this back-and-forth -- guest: when this back-and-forth happens, when there is something that comes out of a major media outlet, and the present tweets, when you look at the system over the next several weeks, voters are going to retreat back to their preconceived notions. they are going to retreat back

to what they fundamentally believe. if they trust the president, they are going to believe his side of the story, ill that he is being treated unfairly. if they believe that he is a racist and that the democrats were right in putting forth this measure in the house and going after him, they are going to believe that. at the end of the day, he is going to come out of this with a 43% job approval, which is what he has had for the last six months. for republicans down ticket, this has created some issue for many of those who continue to serve in suburban areas and higher educated areas. they tend to be the swing districts. these members have to talk to voters about the jobs that have been created and the state of the economy. at the same time navigating and not explaining away or defending

, distancing themselves from the president's words. are you concerned about what this could mean for house and senate republicans, the president potentially reelected but no majority in the house or senate? i think there are a sufficient number of seats that thatbe in place republicans have lots of opportunities going into 2020. it will be different from 2018. even though we saw a large turnout in 2018, larger than we elections, this is going to be a presidential year. there will be a lot of voters who have been sitting on the sidelines for the past three and a half years who are going to start paying attention. they will get engaged in this race at some point over the next year. those are voters who in the key

swing states ended up electing the president in the electoral college. doubling president is down. just a few minutes ago he wrote, don't believe the four congresswoman are capable of loving our country. they should apologize to america and israel for the horrible things they have said. they are destroying the democratic party, but are weak and insecure people who can never destroy our great nation." that was just a few moments ago. guest: i think it is an interesting political strategy for the president to be doubling down on this. a lot of americans, voters, members of congress, regular people are outraged over what has happened. i think it is quite clear that a majority of americans feel that way. this is not just democrats and some independence. i saw polling that showed 65% of voters said they felt these

tweets were racist. said they weres offensive. 37% of republicans but a strong majority of democrats and independents thought they were offensive. 69% of americans thought they were offensive. this is the president playing to a smaller and smaller base while he sticks by these comments while the majority of americans find them offensive and are on the other side. another tweet from the present at 8:00 this morning, "make america great again." winston.ino and ben before we get to our calls and comments, weekly go through your biography. i have been working as a pollster for seven or eight years now. soon heading out to seattle,

washington, washington, d.c.. i have worked for a number of democratic candidates as well as newspapers, the washington times, progressive organizations and different companies. from northeast ohio originally. i just got back there and enjoyed my week with my family, going back to my old haunt. i went to school at case and got my masters here. i have been doing pulling for 20 years now and have had the opportunity to work for republican candidates from the state legislative level, which is one of the most ingratiating things. you are working for congressional and u.s. senate and presidential campaigns. i love getting down on the ground level with a lot of these state legislative races. this year i am working with a lot of races in virginia. is riding the cedar point

roller coasters good training for your job? guest: sometimes it feels like that. you step off at the end of the day, and your head feels shaky. it has been such a great experience understanding fundamentally how people think across this country, how they come to these decisions, how they process information, and what they value. the most favorite projects i have worked on have been focus groups. i think so many times in our profession, we exist in this bubble where it boils down to what the numbers are in a poll or in some economic report, but until you actually get out and talk to voters in the rest of america, you don't begin to understand how they reach those

decisions and what the thinking is. it was not until focus groups in early 2016 when i was out in rural minnesota and wisconsin talking to voters that i first heard that hillary clinton represents the status quo, and the status quo hasn't worked for 20 years, and i want change. donald trump may start world war iii, but at least things will change. things will be different. there was such a hunger at that time. you could not quantify that at the time. that has continued to be the most interesting and insightful part of what we do in public opinion research. we will get to your calls and comments. democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. if you are an independent, (202) 748-8002. or woodention, steel roller coasters? as i age, steel.

they are smoother. my daughter loves wooden roller coasters. guest: i like the newer ones. the older ones give me the creeps. host: good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to start by saying that i as a citizen and have voted in every presidential election have never been pulled. i have never received a phone call, and i have a landline. that is just an aside. there is a super article in the new york times on friday about how donald trump could win the electoral college with a larger margin than he did in the past election. well inlling right wisconsin. despite the possibility of losing the popular vote, he is doing well. he is a brilliant strategist in the swing states. he knows what to do to garner the public opinion of the

masses. i am a truck supporter. i think he is going to win the 2020 election because his grand strategy. the democrats are playing tic-tac-toe. donald trump is playing for dimensional chess. he knows what he is doing, and it is working. everyone is in uproar about his tweets. they are captivated by what he says, and it is part of his grand scheme. i think it is marvelous. host: thank you. we will get a response from ben winston. guest: let me address your first question about never being pulled. it is an interesting point. when we do a poll of the entire country, there are 350 million people in the country, and we don't call all of them. we call a random sampling of 1000 or 1200. the chance of any one person being pulled, but over the course of a long time, if you are in a swing state, chances

are you're going to be pulled. it is somewhat surprising. i would stay by your phone and make sure you answer if one of us called. your other question about donald trump in 2020. i think you make a good point. the article you referenced was an interesting one. it is possible president trump could lose the popular vote i more than he did in 2016 and still win the electoral college. that is a possibility. i would argue there are a few reasons that is fairly unlikely. 2016, we expect turn out to be higher in 2020, something that could benefit but will not necessarily benefit democrats depending on where that higher turnout comes. i think donald trump is now an incumbent. he is not an outsider to politics, so this election won't be entirely a referendum on him but for an historically unpopular president with approval ratings in the low

40's, that is not a great place to be as an incumbent running for reelection. i also think we'll have a stronger democratic candidate in 2020. by the time we get through this primary, which will take a while, i think you will see a strong democratic candidate may be a little different from hillary clinton and offers some different advantages that hillary may not have had that make 2020 a different race. the third reason it will be different is simple demographics. country,parts of the in states like texas and georgia, the electorate is changing. the population is changing. not in all cases. in many cases these are changes that will help democrats as more people vote. we see interest in the 2020 election is at a high in 20 years. ine people are interested the election at this point in

the cycle than they have been in 20 years. that suggests the turnout may be higher in a way that will possibly benefit democrats. he spoke to reporters at a christian science monitor breakfast. he is the chair of the republican house campaign committee. he responded to what the president tweeted and the rally in north carolina the previous evening. [video clip] >> i don't know if you watched the president's rally last night, but people were chanting send her back about a member of your states congressional delegation. the president did not tell them to stop. how does the uproar over president trump and racism affect your ability to retake the house? >> i did not watch the rally last night, but there is no place for that kind of talk. i don't agree with it. workat about the larger of about -- of the week

about racism? >> i think that is manufactured. there is not a racist bone in his body. if you don't appreciate this country, you don't have to be here. that goes for every one of us. it has nothing to do with your race, your gender, your family history. it has to do with respecting and loving the country that has given you the opportunities that you have. as for the other stuff, there is no place for whatever you just brought up, send her back. i disagree with that completely. what? uproar does more?es this energize republicans or democrats? >> i disagree with the premise that you are trying to focus it on race. host: this is the headline from

inside the washington post, "after the tweets, damage control." your reaction? is spot onrman emmer in saying there is no place for those sorts of words in our politics and the chant. i think every right-thinking person realizes that, and the chairman is spot on. he makes a larger point about what voters are going to think about when they had to the polls and the question for both sides is going to be are they going to think about the president and and the discussion we are having about race in this country? or are they going to think about the direction this country needs to go forward in the future? particularly with terms of the

economy. strong,conomy remains that will be a positive force for republicans. the discussion will be turning to what sort of economy do we want going forward? getting into the discussion about the democratic field, every time we have one of these democratic debates, you see the center of the democratic party moving to the left. like it will continue. you have folks like bernie sanders, who in many ways lead the charge, as well as elizabeth warren and kamala harris and goes back and forth on some of her comments. 2020, is this going to be the thing they think about, or is it going to be about the direction they want this country to go forward in the next 10 to 20 years? do they want to grow, or do they --t to see what in many ways

we could have the discussion over the word, the socialist policies, such as government takeover of health care, that is being discussed right now in the democratic primary? host: the democrats will be in detroit for the naacp convention. we will be covering it for the c-span networks. thanks for waiting, matt. you are next. caller: good morning. thatis an unfortunate fact the election duration has a huge election.the this could be the reason for people to forget how awful he has acted on foreign policy. his tweet some days ago that racially insulted for congresswomen. these could be the reasons for forgetting the fact that he has ignored congress repeatedly

ended sexual crimes he is charged with. i have called to say to everyone in the u.s. watching your great carefully whonk they are going to vote for vote hasvery single enormous affect on not only america but the whole world and so many lives. thank you for your great program. host: we will move on to kathy, who is joining us from texas. good morning. caller: good morning. the democrat party is now the socialist party. the squad represents the socialist party. they despise this country and our culture. called oump casio-cortez when she tried to call her own leader nancy pelosi a racist.

donald trump loves this country. he is not a racist. he will win in 2020 because of his policies. the democratic party needs to stop using the word racist every time they cannot win. host: we will go to joe on our independent line. caller: good morning. you know time i have a comment to make, it gets me off track a little bit, so i want to mention the word racism. the word is overused. all you gentlemen know the real definition of racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. the problem is if you disagree with someone of another race these days, you are a racist. you are a racist forever. it is overused. don't get me wrong. i don't agree with donald trump's tweets and some of the stuff he comes up with. all, but isuit me at want to share something with you , a question with regards to strategy.

i don't know how deep you get into contributing to the democratic party strategy. i am an independent. i identify with the constitution party, which doesn't have a candidate yet. i am on the outside looking in. i think i can be objective. here is what you see on tv. most media outlets lean to the left. we see people crossing fences illegally trying to get into this country. somethinghere is fundamentally wrong with people that don't want to be documented. we see people on the streets in california and seattle. young soon to a city near if you vote democrat. tent cities, sanctuary cities, overburdened schools, police forces, overburdened hospitals. one step away from socialism if you vote democrat. donald trump on his side, he has a robust economy, job creation. what is the strategy?

how do you defeat that? host: thank you. what are you hearing? joe asked a very important question, how do democrats communicate a strategy in an environment like this? with donald trump dominating the headlines, all people talk about is was that racist? i think that is a challenge for democrats. .he democrats in the house they have been passing dozens and hundreds of bills already on some of the issues that joe and others have raised as things they care about, on health care, on prescription drugs, on veterans, immigration, securing the border, government reform, anticorruption bills, things like this. all the coverage of that gets eaten up when donald trump tweets.

how did the democrats to indicate what they have been doing, all these accomplishments american people would like if they heard about? the coverage becomes they are calling donald trump racist, alexandria can't feel cortez speaks for the -- oca sio-cortez speaks for the democratic party. i don't think that is the strategy of the democratic party , but that is what it feels like from the outside. host: i want to share with you the headline from the washington post. tanker seizure triggering a standoff. iran's capture of a british oil tanker risks spiraling into a major international crisis with neither side backing down from a standoff that exposes the world to vulnerability from tirter

hran's. >> if they do that, we are prepared to negotiate with no preconditions. i hope they will do that. we have done everything we can to create the space for this to continue to take actions that are deterrence. so we can have this opportunity, but we have seen no indication that the iranians are prepared to fundamentally change the direction of their nation. to do the things we have asked them to do on their nuclear program. you can just watch their actions. these are actions that threaten. we saw the actions yesterday. these are not the actions of a country that looks like it is headed in the right direction, but we hope that they will sit down and discuss each of these

items with us. host: that was the secretary of state yesterday in ecuador? how does that factor into 2020, the instability in the middle east? it certainly has the potential to fundamentally change the dynamic. we do everything in our campaign, spend years preparing for that election and thinking about what voters are going to frame the election in terms of. all it takes is one event happening overseas to fundamentally change that. i think back to the 2008 elections where we spent much of the summer talking about energy prices, and many campaigns cut thenn gasoline costs, and september came along, and we started talking about the banking crisis and the collapse

of the economy. this has the potential. if there are any issues that have the potential to fundamentally reshaped and ashuffle the deck, it is significant change in our economic situation, some significant downturn, or a foreign policy incident, some sort of military incident. i think having the republican secretary of state layout this idea to continue to offer an olive branch to iran and saying if they can behave like a responsible state government, we are willing to continue to have talks with them i think is obviously the right move. he has done a masterful job to date trying to navigate our relationship with this rogue state. is only going to serve to strengthen our relationship with the british government as we stand shoulder to shoulder with our greatest ally.

we will learn this week the next prime minister. we welcome our viewers in great britain. this program is carried every sunday live on the bbc parliament channel. guests benour winston and b.j. martino. nick is joining us from south carolina. go ahead. we will go to lewis next in alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: racism is alive and well in america. it always will be as long as it is taught in school from the beginning christopher columbus discovered america. how can you discover something that people was already here? then the mexicans was here. they moved the border from arizona, texas, all the way to

the river. not only is it taught -- long as taught in schools that all good things in america it done by white people, is always going to be racism in america because that is all they see. they taught them from kindergarten, preschool it's racism. you all know i am right. i have one question. vote --connell's wife was in the newspaper. hisdna went on one of wife's boats and found cocaine. it was in the louisville newspaper.

they found pounds of cocaine on what mitch mcconnell's wife's b oats. host: your response? guest: i cannot speak to that point specifically. i would say mitch mcconnell's 23%ngs are poor nationally, favorable nationally and 49% unfavorable nationally. the fact that he is one of the more prominent leaders of the republican party could have consequences in 2020. host: let's go to thomas on the republican line. caller: i want to ask the democratic strategist a couple of questions. insurance, and i know people on medicare. their process is not changed. i take various medicines. samepayment has been the

for the past 10 years. truck tax cuts, i get paid once a month. i made it $71,000 last year. more innging home $272 my check each month. when you say it doesn't benefit the middle class, that is not true. i can prove it. with the tax cuts, they would affect different people in different ways. there have been many analyses by the studio and other organizations in terms of the types of people intends to help, and the types of people it tends to increase taxes on. i'm glad you kept more take-home pay. that is great. that is something tens of thousands of americans are not expensive. they are paying more in taxes than they were before. the types of interests that had to have their taxes cut tended to be the wealthy. now let's get to health care. health care is something voters across the aisle care about.

people are very concerned about the high cost of health care and prescription drugs in particular. there have been a number of proposals offered to try to fix that. it is something that is playing a big part of the democratic primary for 2020. the presidential candidates are talking about this a lot. the public is all over the place on what they prefer it comes to health care. they want lower costs and more choice. they want all the good things without any trade-offs. it is a difficult thing for politicians on both sides to handle as there is not any quickfix, although everyone wishes there was. a couple of numbers i would throw out there. foree a majority support medicare for all. 35% say they oppose it. all voterslear that know what medicare for all is. those numbers can vary a little bit. you definitely see appetite for

a different kind of system than the one we have now, including expanding medicare for people over the age of 55 or for everybody. host: i want to ask you this question, does it matter? this is the headline for the new ump turns to old tactics, seeing race as a way to get ahead." "over decades in business entertainment and politics, esther trump has approached america's racial, ethnic, and political divisions as openings to achieve his goals, whether they be ratings, fame, money, or power. he was accused by government investigators in the 1970's of refusing to rent to black tenants. he denied it but settled the case.

he championed the return of the death penalty 15 black and hispanic teenagers were charged with raping a jogger. they were later exonerated. taking on competitors of his atlantic city casino, he questioned whether rival owners were really native americans entitled to federal recognition and then teamed up with another tribe when there was money to be made. to convincedrive americans that barack obama was really born in africa. was marked byign slurs against mexicans and a proposed muslim ban." uest: we did some research over the past couple of years. voters understand that there are and have been long-standing

political and racial divisions in this country. as the caller said a short time ago earlier, education of our children is viewed as one of the major ways we can get out of that. we can begin to heal some of those divisions that are continue to occur. viewsk what you see among of the electorate right now are compromise and stability to return to this country. aey want to be able to have real civil dialogue that gets passed these political and racial divisions that we have, but there is a countervailing measures were cap super majorities who say they want that compromise and disability, and on the other hand they say i leadersi am tired of my compromising our values. we have a majority of voters in

this country who believe both of those things at the same time. that is the difficulty we have in all these discussions. it is very easy to open up some of those divisions that already exist. they are not anything that is new in this country. us on our is joining line for democrats. caller: good morning. i want to say a few words about the remarks of trump. when i was a child, i used to be back to africa. i used to be told to go back to the jungle and go back where i came from. there is nothing that is not racist about those tweets. you can twist it and turn it anyway you want to, but this has been a long time strategy for racists.

tweetlet me go back to a earlier today from the president. he began by saying, i don't believe the four congresswomen are capable of loving our country. when you hear that, your reaction? caller: he is still hiding his racism with that type of strategy. they are -- one is from another country, she is a naturalized citizen. the others were born here. they are just as much patriots as anybody else. they are able to run for office if they want. anybody who disagrees with him is either spreading lies or fake news. it cannot be that way. everybody on the left is not a liar. thank you for the call. let's hear from richard,

republican from arkansas. caller: thank you for letting me call. racism is something you cannot prove. you can call anybody a racist. if you take every single comment someone has made their whole life, you can make them anything. those four congresswoman, if they had been caucasian women and set of women of color, he would have been called misogynist. needs to be put in their place because they are always threatening to destroy israel could i remember, that's israel. the remember correctly, agreement with obama was never ratified. they were still to this day starting off their prayers with death to america.

if the news call somebody a racist even though they are not, people will eventually believe it. does for freshman democratic members of the house spoke to orders on capitol hill earlier this week. your response? guest: regarding the assertion thinkrump is racist, i there is a concerning pattern of the people he tends to criticize. they tend to be people of color. they tend to be women. they tend to be lgbtq americans. they tend to be disadvantaged groups. i don't think that is a coincidence. in the 2018 poll by the associated press, 57% of americans said they thought donald trump was a racist. i would be interested to see if that was done again today in the wake of the events of the past week if that number has changed at all. host: two that or the point about iran?

you hear this again when you go out and talk to folks, particularly in swing states like pennsylvania and wisconsin and the more rural parts of the states where they are not in the urban centers. out west. and wisconsin, they have felt that they have been called racist for supporting the president. they recalled deplorable for supporting the president. they were painted with a very broad brush. they felt like they were under attack. supporting the president, for other reasons even though they were not personally racist. can hear from several people today, and it is a growing theme that if everything is labeled racist, then nothing is racist. version of the

flag is racist, how can you claim racist later on? there is a little bit of crying wolf if it happens. if it has been labeled so many other things that they believe are fundamentally patriotic or american, they are going to discount days later accusations that perhaps have more merit. i think democrats in those swing makes would do well to sure those voters did not feel alienated. those are the voters that donald trump and republicans on our side are able to talk to and say you are not deplorable. we share your values that are not racist about the economic concerns that are driving their decision-making. host: joe biden is visiting iowa. he was asked about the tweaks -- president's

tweets. ♪ > [video clip] in 24 states.d they have come to me, over 20 of them saying please keep us moving forward. i did not run saying i would never talk to a republican. aoc ist majority, brilliant and the other three women are really smart, but they are the exception rather than the rule. we need that kind of energy. that is not the majority of the democrats. host: this will set the debate later this month. here is an interesting trivia question for the viewers, how many people filed with the

fec to run in 2017? filed in 2016. there is lots of time still to jump into the race. there is a very wide field. there is a long way to go. the debates next week will be very interesting. it is a long primary. you cannot expect democratic primary voters at this point to have their minds made up. votersdemocratic primary are satisfied with the field of candidates. they are happy with their choices, but only 12% say they have made up their mind for sure. host: that is a key number. only 12% say they are 100% committed to the candidate they will vote for, which tells you what? guest: there is a long way to go. if you are a candidate that

still has a reasonable chance. there's a few, i think 25. i think there is a long way to go. there's a top tier. joe biden, kemal harris and elizabeth warren are the three with the best shot right now. them, bernie sanders, pete buttigieg and a couple of others. there is still time for a candidate in the lower tier to make a break, although they are running out of time. there is time for a candidate who is hovering at 1% to join that top-tier. host: one of the key states is pennsylvania.

nancy is joining us on the democrats line. are you satisfied with the field so far, and have you made up your mind? caller: i honestly have not. i am calling in for that reason. partieslike to see both get off of the topics that are slandered tactics and guilt cards and get to the subjects i want to hear to make a good decision. i feel like i am a good decision-maker. i say and act on my true beliefs. what i get from what the people running since we have so many are saying and what they are doing. i think we need to move forward. again about the slander and guilt topics that are going on, that is all we talk about.

i see it going on and on. let's move forward. that is the only thing i can see for getting on the topics that people really want to hear. mental health and health care is what i would like to see both of those. everything is getting in the background. i would like to see this government for one week take an oath that they don't have to that up such silly things everybody is getting disgusted about. maybe the people of color like to hear the history and change history, but we cannot. for whatt responsible happened 150 years ago anymore. host: i am going to leave it there. thank you for the call. i would like to get reaction from b.j. martino. i want to go back to this abc

news poll. that former vice president joe biden was the only democrat who drew more support than mr. trump among independent voters. he drooped slightly more support among republican voters than any of the other democratic candidates. what nancy was saying and what this poll is saying, your thoughts? guest: given the range and spectrum of the democratic field, joe biden seems like the most moderate in terms of his ideology. right now, he has some crossover appeal. i think you have a couple of problems. he has to continue to react and respond to the ideas and assertions put forth, particularly in the democratic debates. and thus be driven to the left. it is far from a certain

conclusion that he is going to be the nominee. you saw in that first debate when kamala harris attacked him on busing, the effect of that over the last several weeks is that he was taken down eight to 10 points in the national polling, and kamala harris brought herself up and went from single digits into the double digits and became one of the top four along with sanders, lauren, and biden. she put herself into that place by attacking. if we think the rest of the candidates have not picked up on that lesson, you are to see far more fireworks and a lot more going after the front runners in this second debate than we saw in the first because it worked for kamala harris. host: we are talking with b.j. martino and ben winston. jerry is joining us from mississippi. good morning.

caller: hello. i would like to ask your guests about the most recent poll that about six ofcott the democratic candidates winning over donald trump. , are these is this polls that accurate, what happened in 2016? guest: it's a good question. i would not put that much stock in general election head-to-head horserace matchups at this point. we are so far away from the 2020 general election that we think there is so much learning about the candidates to go. the general election campaign has not played out yet. we don't know who is going to show up and vote in 2020. it is hard to identify who

voters would elect at this point. i think we should all take these 2020 general election matchups with a grain of salt. be joe biden or donald trump? you would rather be ahead by nine. you see a generic democrat beating donald trump. ahead byiden, warren 5, harris ahead by 1. i don't think we should count the polls from today as being predictive of what is going to happen in 2020. host: we will go to betty from illinois. caller: i have some points to make, but question first. they always say democrats lean too far to the left. -- they lean too far

to the right. they point of view for the right, and we have our point of view for the left. the economy is not that great for everybody. if you have money, the economy is great. the economy may be good, but the deficit is high. host: b.j. martino, your thoughts. guest: i think she makes a good point when she says both parties. the research as shown they have polarized in recent years. there are lots of explanations for how that has happened. part of it at the congressional we have in part how t drawn congressional lines over the past decades. the larger point about the economy, every recovery happens

in an uneven way. we have seen more of those places where the recovery in 2016 had yet to reach. much of the recovery by 2016 was only in 20 counties. a lot of places were left behind. more places are being lifted up by that. bowls, it to the 2016 is good to remember clinton was winning by three points on average in the national polls, which was very accurate. what is going to matter is state-level polling. whether joe biden wins california 90-10 or 50-49, it is still the same electoral vote. it all comes down to the electoral college. host: let both of you go, i want to share this headline from the washington journal. getting underway wednesday morning before two house committees.

will that move the needle? guest: i am not sure it will. democrats are trying to keep -- are trying to be careful of keeping key expectations and check for the mueller hearing. right now the amid -- right now the majority of americans do not support impeaching donald trump. a minority to support that very strongly and that number has been growing but right now it is not the majority and democrats want to be careful not to overpromise what they might get out of the mueller hearings. they know when he testifies he will be very careful about what he says. he is one that does not like partisanship either way. any partisanship questions he gets from either side, he will step back and may be hesitant to say anything. i think he is going to be careful to stay in the middle and not give much more information than what was in the report. just the fact that the main findings of the report are going to be more publicized and more people will see them and hear

them is generally a good thing for the democrats. that said, i don't expect it will fundamentally move the needle in the way that some people might expect. host: you get the last word. guest: i agree. mueller is not going to come out with some new bombshell. it is going to be an opportunity for some members of congress to restate their very ardent positions on the issue, to try and needle mueller to say something new and he will refuse, he will fall back on the report he already provided. . host: very civil conversation from two partisans. thank you. tim alberta is in the green room. his new book which is getting a lot of attention, titled "american carnage: on the front lines of the republican civil war and the rise of president trump.". he is here for the next hour in c-span's washington journal.

ahead on c-span twos book tv and c-span3's american history tv, we travel to traverse city michigan -- traverse city, michigan, home to one of america's leading cherry industries, a dominant part of the cities tour economy and agricultural base. here is part of what we found as we traveled to traverse city, shaken -- travers city, michigan. >> some of the countries that bring cherries and are looking for hard dollars so they are actually dumping cherries into this country way below their cost of production in order to get u.s. dollars. imports have become our number one concern, particularly in the dry cherry industry. today we've got lawsuits going ,gainst manufacturers in turkey where they are bringing in cherries well below what they are paying their growers in their own country.

we worked very hard over the years to try and get things fixed through the department of fromrce, through trade and a political standpoint and we are such a small industry, we are not a huge group of voters. when it comes to political sway, we don't have a lot of political sway. we ended up having to file a ofsuit against the importers cherries and it is now being heard at the department of commerce and department of trade and hopefully this will help -- hopefully we will have tariffs issued on cherries coming in from turkey that will help slow down the imports. >> tonight on c-span's q&a. that public officials, the people who really govern this country, it is not congress, not the president, it

is bureaucrats. they write thousands of rules and regulations that have the force of law and we found out that they don't think much of ordinary americans. >> benjamin ginsberg, professor of political science and chair of governmental studies at johns hopkins university discusses his book, what washington gets wrong: the unelected officials who actually run the government and their misconceptions about the. american people. misconceptions about the american people. >> what do we learn? that ain't exactly how the system works. much of what we think of as the law consists of rules and regulations written by bureaucratic agencies, i bureaucrats who are not elected by anyone and who often serve for decades. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: we want to welcome tim alberta, senior political correspondent verbal -- political correspondent for politico magazine. talking about his new book, "american carnage: on the front lines of the republican civil war and the rise of president trump." trailblazing -- trailblazing as he might be, you're right, president trump is the manifest consequence in presidential politics the candidate must meet at the moment. guest: i think as we have the benefit of hindsight, we can go back a decade, probably longer but in this book i go back a decade and you can connect the dots between any number of these major events in american politics, be at the selection of sarah palin, the financial collapse in 2008, the loss of 14, youn 12, going and

can connect the dots and it does draw a pretty straight line to donald trump. there is a tendency among a lot of us to believe that trump materialized out of thin air but when you go back, it makes all the sense in the world. host: what does donald trump think of words w bush? guest: he does not think much of him as a president. i don't know about his personal feelings. but i sat down in the oval office with the president, the, unsolicited at some points, was very harsh in his critiques of president bush, saying the nationbuilding abroad completely distracted the government from taking care of its own citizens. he believes that george w. bush and his compassionate conservative message was a total misread of the republican base and i think in some way he is invalidated. george w. bush ticket presidency

laid the groundwork for the rise of trump. and inas prissy identifying that there were many republican voters who felt left behind by the governing class, felt neglected and angry in a way that george w. bush and john mccain in 2008 ann romney in 2012, they were not able to sense that anger or tap into it and they were certainly not able to weaponize it the way trump was. host: do you think donald trump thought he was going to win? guest: the presidency? no. the primary, yes. i draw that distinction because we all remember a lot of very smart people telling us during the primary season that this was all a ruse, that donald trump was not serious, that he would drop out before iowa and was doing this to build up his brand. that is a fundamental misreading because what he saw when he surveyed that 2016 field was

that same weakness he saw in george w. bush and john mccain and mitt romney. to theame to view -- view that the republican party is weak and he looked around in 2016, jeb bush cannot even look -- stand up straight. constantly andes at least he had some respect for cruz. marco rubio, this guy sweats every time he is on television. trump did not fear any of his opponents and he felt as though he could take over this party and he did. when it got to the general election, it's not that he had any great respect or fear for hillary clinton but it was pressed upon him repeatedly that he in it'd the electorate, that was historically -- that he was historically unpopular and that it would be nearly impossible for him to win and trump was not oblivious to that reality. after believing very much he could win the primary and essentially take over the party, he was much more realistic about

his chances in the general election and was frankly quite surprised on election night. host: i want to get your reaction to some reviews, this from the guardian. the title is the riddle of trump's rise and on your book, the guardian writes, the republican destroyed itself to accommodate him, following its agent concert -- it's ancient conservative precepts. -- facilitate their slimy assent. bustling around the globe, accusing donald trump of 2016 of ", immoral and possessing dictator like qualities. mick mulvaney called him quote, a terrible human being. mike pence whose vice president of visage is focused on rick this admiration one said he loathed trump. this week we will probably be asking our own version of alberto's question, preferably

with a few questions and added expletives. how did boris johnson become prime minister of the u.k.? the reasons are the same. institutional malaise and social italy nation exploded by anrincipled liar -- by unprincipled liar. your reaction. guest: we can talk at great length on the book. you can see how thick it is and i have gotten no shortage of ribbing about that. we can talk about the culture of people during this time, the socioeconomic displacement, all of these forces converged in a way that did invite the assent of donald trump but another thing that is not focused on is the institutional collapse. when we think about institutions, organized religion, the media, public education and even the military. we have seen a decline in trump's confidence in those institutions but an instant

shoot -- an institution we don't think about much as a political party and the republican party an institution like the democrat party. whether people want to accept this or not, it is a fact that to have stability, you need strong political parties. donald trump hijacked a republican party that was ready to be hijacked. this was a party that had been systemically weakened over 15 years and trump came along at the perfect time to exploit that. host: the washington post is writing in their editorial of -- inseparable from the complicity of the republican party. this carnage is there is to. the gop has been overwhelmingly affirmative regardless of how gleefully trump tramples over principles of free markets and executive restraint and a matter how impulsively he deploys cruelty and nativism as his governing tools. reporting to show how easily a major party surrenders ideology

to the temptations of power and revenge. this book will endure for helping us understand not what is happening but why it has happened. i want to follow-up on those two points, surrendering ideology when it comes to now a record deficit. think to the first point, any of us who watched that 2010 tea party wave come crashing over washington, and i was out with a lot of these candidates while they were campaigning and when they came to congress. we could talk until the cows corehome about the principles and platforms of their campaigns and that was debt, deficit spending. it was narrowly focused on fiscal issues and at the time the context was important. obama had taken office, unemployment was north of 10% and millions of factory jobs were being shed across the

united states. a great deal of economic unease and cultural unease along with it. you have these candidates running for congress not just as a rebuke to barack obama but towards george w. bush. by the end of the bush administration you had a lot of republicans that believed bush had sold republicanism and betrayed the party's core principles. you had all these candidates promising conservatives first and republican second. they were going to restore the soul as they focused on limited government. fast-forward and there are very few and i mean you can count them on one hand, very few members who arrived in that 2010 talking talking about fiscal restraint, cutting spending and lowering the deficit who voted the same way and hitting the same rhetorical notes today as they were eight or nine years ago. that begs the question why and what changed and i think the answer is quite simple.

tribalism is infecting every part of society today and nowhere can it be seen more readily than right behind us on capitol hill. most of these members to the extent that they were very principled in the first place, to the extent that many of them were on those issues of debt and deficit spending, it seems that was a cudgel they could wield against barack obama when they were out of power but as soon as they returned to power, they were happy to blow up the debt and deficit and spend at historic rates. they were only a few republicans who hit the same notes today as they did eight or nine years ago. that makes us all wonder, what was that people already wave about in 2010? host: we will get to your calls and comments. the numbers will be on the bottom of the screen. the genesis of this book, how it came together and who did you talk to? iest: the short answer is,

have been covering republican politics for the decade that i covered in the book and right around the beginning of the 2016 primary, i had the idea percolating in my brain that maybe this is a book. warng covered the civil both in congress and on the campaign trail with the republican establishment taking on the tea party. you had people like john boehner and mitch mcconnell and reince priebus holding on for dear life. it was fascinating to watch but as the campaign went on and trump was ascendant and changing the contours of that debate inside the party because we did feel it was along ideological lines and suddenly it felt like it wasn't. it was much more along cultural lines. i begin to think about a different type of book and ultimately right around january 2016 when trump began to take off and began to actually put the republican party and a

headlock as the voting got underway is when i sort of planted the seeds and began to think about how i might write this book. host: let's get to your phone calls. our first caller from four from florida. caller: good morning and praise be to c-span allowing regular folks to have a voice on national television. and becameblican disillusioned with president trump when he insulted john mccain. i have tried to organize, i want a label for republicans that do oppose donald trump and will cooperate in a coalition with democrats. i want a label or a name. i have proposed a name, the moose herders. in my local paper, i had several articles laying out a moose herders agenda and what a coalition could be. google has not put that up, so when i call in on c-span and other tv programs, people have

tried to look up the moose herder coalition and google does not have it. i wish they would. would you help me propose the idea that for historical purposes there should be a name or a label for those republicans that will oppose donald trump that theym retired so can cooperate -- i would prefer the 25th amendment where he be considered -- if he is fit to be president. host: a quick question for you as a republican in the key swing state of florida, who will you vote for in 2020? caller: william weld. he needs publicity. there is a republican trying to stand up against trump. the former republican governor of massachusetts. why does he not get more publicity? i wish c-span would have him and republicans would be aware that there is a man who says we need reform in the republican party. that is who i am going to be

supporting. him: we recently featured on our c-span newsmakers program which is available in our library. tim alberta? guest: as i mentioned, tribalism in american society today is such a powerful force that i just don't know that there are many people out there for the moose herders. there are plenty of republicans who feel a sense of disquiet with this president and they disagree with his policies, many of them certainly disagree with his behavior and rhetoric and they are turned off by it but at the end of the day, -- who left the party recently described to me how there is this cosmic battle between the left and the right in the eyes of many voters and elected officials and they believe anything they do to criticize their side or show dissent within their ranks ultimately helps the other side, that it is just that binary. while certainly there is a desire among many republican voters to have an alternative to trump, at least on paper.

register, 40%nes of republican caucus-goers in the state would like to see a primary just to have an option and a discourse and dialogue to see what else is out there. at the end of the day, they were very few elected officials and republican donors who are in a position of power and proximity to power who are willing to go or and criticize trump distance themselves from him because they understand that that means putting their own career, their livelihood on the line and that is a gamble that most folks are not willing to take. host: our guest is the chief political correspondent for politico. he has worked for the national review, the wall street journal and the national journal. let me read another excerpt from page 260 from the 600 plus page book. america during the rise of the 47th president was witnessing -- 45th president was witnessing a sweeping demographic transformation.

these trends showed no sign of reversal, hence the rnc project a party that had long depended on older, white, rural, working-class voters. guest: donald trump did not create a blueprint with his 2016 campaign victory, as many republicans would tell you. he essentially delayed the inevitable. this demographic writing is on the wall and that is not a matter of opinion, it is just math. in a state like arizona, the hispanic population has tripled in the past five years. texas, the capital county was fought to a draw by barack obama and mitt romney. by 2018, ted cruz loses that county, his home county by more than 200,000 votes. it is to say that if republicans lose a state like arizona and texas and then we get into

georgia and north carolina and other areas that have traditionally been pretty strong republican places in terms of the battleground map, they are dead. they can't win elections that way so they will have to diversify their appeal. they can't win with the core working-class white electorate and performing somewhere between 24% and 30% among hispanics. host: but some have said that in texas and arizona, there may be two cycles before we see that happen. guest: that is the question. how many losses would it take for republicans to begin recalibrating? 2012,mitt romney lost in and that is the autopsy project, reince priebus believed that after losing into thousand eight and 2012, that that was the time for republicans to get back to the drawing board, they commissioned this project, they were investing in comprehensive immigration reform to set aside this volatile issue and remove

it from democrats who have been weaponizing it against republicans for some time. trump, he crumpled up that autopsy and threw it in the waste bin and reince priebus became his chief of staff. that led some to believe that donald trump disproved the autopsy when in fact folks like reince priebus would tell you that the autopsy remains highly accurate and relevant, it is just a matter of timing because state like arizona and texas and others are not going to flip blue tomorrow or in 20 or maybe 24 and eventually the map is going to catch up with republicans. host: you have this from former house speaker paul ryan in the is a quote, trumpism populist movement we are in and it is going to be here after president trump is gone and that is something we will have to learn how to deal with. i am a traditional conservative and traditional conservatives are definitely not ascendant in the party right now.

trump is clearly an indicator of that. tost: what ryan is speaking is really important because everything i just said about trying to broaden the coalition, that is going to have to happen simultaneously and will have to be married to a strategy to retain some of that trump populist appeal. when you look at folks like nikki haley, ted cruz, tom cotton, others who are going to be jockeying for position in the post trump republican party and some of them are, already, those are the two sides of the same coin. how do we move beyond trumpism in a way to expand our appeal to not be branded as a nativist exclusive party but at the seam time how do we avoid becoming intellectually complacent in a way that the post-reagan republican party was because that is what trump tapped into. he understood at this visceral level what many republicans in washington did not understand which is that many of these culturally conservative

republican voters out in the country did not care what the wall street journal editorial board was telling them. they did not care about the rnc autopsy. they had a message in mind that nobody in washington was delivering to them until trump came along and those people are still going to be there. the trick is how do you appeal to those folks while also broadening. host: and they don't care that trump was formerly a pro-choice democrat. guest: i say this early in the book and it is impossible to quantify but it is so incredibly important and foundational he important to understanding trump appealpeal -- trump jake -- trump's appeal. they believed that the republican party was soft and that the democratic party were as militant -- was militant. the american left was just sort of subjugating the american right in a way that they felt

helpless and tread upon and they were desperate for somebody to get into the arena and start fighting back. there were no republicans doing that. there is a reason ted cruz ended up the runner-up. as unpopular as he was in washington, he was immensely popular out of the provinces because people said at least this guy has the guts to go to war with the left. to the extent that trump had advocated for universal health care, defendant planned parenthood, that he used to be a self-described very pro-choice, those things did not matter nearly as much to those voters as the simple fact that they saw in him a brawler, someone who is willing to go to war with the left in a way that none of these other republicans were willing to. host: the title, "american title or is that your a publisher's? guest: that is my title oddly enough. host: you write quote, president obama brought out the worst in the republican base, the seeds

of anger and resentment and victimization were sown by forces outside his control long before his ascent but he harvested them in a way no other democrat could. obama was a perfect villain for the forgotten masses of flyover country. donna is joining us in st. louis, missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. three things. first of all, you are right, the republican party was going downhill before trump. he may or may not be a racist but what he is is totally self-centered. he will say or do whatever it takes to get what he wants, from going to war to telling americans to go back when they are citizens of this country. maybe that includes himself. god help mueller this week because the republicans will try to make a full of this great hero -- a fool of this

great hero. they will only make themselves look like total jerks again. when they are done with biden in the debates, he is going to be history. he is not the person to beat trump. war,ted for bush juniors for all those rotten trade deals and thank you for the cherry story. i will be curious to look at where the cherries are growing. lastly, the person that has the best chance to win against trump which you all want to pooh-pooh, that is bernie sanders. he is the only one that had the guts last time to run against hillary and he is the only one that has a consistent record on what most people have voted for trump would like. he really is for universal health care. he really was voting against these rotten trade deals. he did vote against the wars. don't vote for these people that

don't have a history of voting for the way they are saying because they will say anything to get elected. host: thanks for the call and the reference to our travel to traverse city, michigan -- travers city, michigan. tim alberta, what are you hearing from donna? guest: i should make clear that i am a big fan of lake huron. the blue-collar folks on the east side of the state. host: where are you from? guest: i am from brighton which is a quit essential medium sized city. talks about the systemic weakening of parties as american institutions. this is not to discount anything

bernie sanders achieved in 2016 or his prospects in 2020 but it is interesting to note that when you think back to the 2016 election on both sides, who were the two candidates who energize their party base the most? it was donald trump in the republican party and bernie sanders in the democrat party. neither of them ever belonged to those parties to begin with. what you are seeing now on the democratic side is really fascinating. it is not the draw of a comparison between donald trump whatoc or anybody else but democrats are trying to -- starting to grapple with now are those asymmetrical forces and donald trump exposed the party establishment as slow and weak and unable to adapt and i do believe that aoc and others are doing the same at this point. whether it is bernie sanders, joe biden, whoever emerges from the democratic primary, i think they are going to have to be ready to respond to trump with the same things that trump

offered his voters which was strength. people may not want to hear that but voters whether consciously or subconsciously, they respond to strength. there is a reason kamala harris had a breakout performance in that debate. joe biden looked old and slow and reticent and kamala harris came right adam and every point she made was forceful and people respond to that and it is difficult, just judging off of that first debate performance and there will be plenty of them. joe biden did not look like somebody who is ready to step in that ring with donald trump the way that kamala harris looked. host: did you happen to see the interview with president-elect donald trump? she asked him can you be presidential and he said i can be very presidential. fast forward to where we are today. guest: what is fascinating is many republicans i spoke with in the 48 hours after election day, some of whom had been outspoken critics of donald trump during

the campaign and some of whom were watching his victory speech that night through the slits in their fingers, they were relieved at what they heard. i report in the book that donald trump initially did not have a victory speech written because he was not expecting to win. with a came out on stage hastily written victory speech, his own advisors were a bit surprised because when they had been up in the residence of trump tower before hand, he told them, no polarizing stuff, no crazy rhetoric, we need to calm things down and we need to bring the country together and they were relieved but they were surprised and when he came out and gave that speech on election night, they were a lot of republicans who were relieved and they felt like maybe he can be presidential. this is a new side. and then of course on inauguration day, we hear american carnage. host: the president this morning with this tweet.

guest: the president clearly -- clearlyngress sees in these four congresswomen , and ideal foil. donald trump thrives with a villain. donald trump looks across the aisle and realizes that nancy pelosi is not nearly an but he woman as she used to be because now she is a moderate trying to hold the house together, chuck schumer is the same way. but now these four freshmen women of color who have such an outside influence already, just seven months in and he looks at them and he wants to paint the entire democratic party in their

image with that broad brush of socialism and wild i've provoked wild eyed progressivism whether it is medicare for all, criticism of israel, trump wants to put the party on trial using these four women. host: their picture this morning inside the washington post with the headline, trump holds that white immigration tartness is -- that nonwhite immigration tarnishes our immaculate nation. kevin is on the republican line from california. caller: good morning. analysis about george bush and what led to this point in the republican party is right on. i felt this had been coming for a while. partyfter the republican took the house and the senate in the early 2000's and was leaning -- leaving the country and won the election in 2004 and bush basically ran the country -- ran the party down the toilet. we lost a house in 2006 and then

we had obama. been comingthis had for a while and when trump came and started talking about revitalizing the country, it always seems like the left of change usy wants to too fast culturally and i think -- i saw trump as a guy who was going to get the energy sector going, and bring back jobs and promote the country. he is a flawed messenger in a ultimately, it is not what you say, it is what you do. we want to see the country growing and i want to see my kids having jobs and not government jobs but private sector jobs.

the sideline of that is the way he is taking on the cultural left. i think it has been a good thing. they want to overrun everybody's values. even betsy ross is racist now. that is crazy. is a flawed messenger but he stands for a lot of values out there. we want the country to be great for everybody but you have to have economic growth and i don't see anything the democrats are offering that is going to get economic growth. host: i'm going to stop you there but thank you for weighing in. does he encapsulate where the trump republican party is today? guest: pretty neatly actually. kevin took the opportunity to point out that trump is a flawed messenger and even if you go to a trump rally, many republicans will say they don't believe trump is a perfect person. they understand he has made plenty of mistakes, that he is flawed and he is not somebody

that they would necessarily hold up as a role model, but they believe that -- i hate to hammer this point home but it is just important that donald trump is a brawler. donald trump is a scrapper. donald trump is willing to run into the burning building when nobody else is. whether that perception aligns with reality is for other people to decide. there are real questions about whether his promises, his campaign promises even align with his own policies in terms of catering to the working-class and middle-class but i do think it is important to understand psychologically how trump came along at this moment in time in which many americans of traditional values believed those values were under siege and that nobody in the republican party was willing to stand up and fight for those values and you just cannot begin to quantify how important that was for those people who felt like the country was slipping away from them and that if

something didn't happen quickly it might be gone for good. host: we will go to dave in new york, our line for democrats. with tim alberta, the author of the book"." -- the author of the book, "american carnage or to -- "american carnage." caller: i see a huge populist revolt. not so much trump, it is the populism of the people that support donald trump, that really believe in him. from, that populism comes basically peoples standard of living in general has gone down so much. to make it from week to week to be able to pay our bills. guest: no question. during the states 2016 campaign.

i talked with hundreds, maybe thousands of voters. you would hear two things consistently when you talked to voters who said they were supporting donald trump. he is not afraid and he is not in government. were sort ofngs married and intertwined in a way that was perfect for his pitch. he was saying look, i am not afraid to go after any of these people. i am not beholden to any of the special interests. i will go after the establishments, wall street, the cultural left. i will go after anybody who stands in my way. i am not going to back down from any of these fights and i am not going to apologize when i say something and it may offend you whether it is about john mccain or megyn kelly or whoever. he is not a politician. there was a sense among a lot of voters, not just republican voters or conservative voters but across the spectrum that the political class had let them

down, that they had been lied to so many times and if you are a , specifically for eight years you were told that they were going to repeal and replace obamacare and that was a lie. republican politicians, some of whom admitted to me in the book that they knew they were not able to repeal and replace obamacare. they could not force president obama to repeal his signature legislative accomplishment but they understood that to fire up the base and mobilize voters they had to make promises they knew they would not be able to voters, when you to there is going to be a backlash, a consequence. donald trump was that consequence in some sense because a lot of voters were ready to throw up their hands, wash their hands of the republican political class and look for someone outside the system. there was a stretch in that campaign were the top three republicans in the polls were donald trump, ben carson and carly fee arena. carly- carly fee arena -- fiorina.

host: our guest is tim alberta of politico. we are talking about his new book, "american carnage." the president tweeting, big progress -- big progress at the border but the democrats must change the laws for everything to be good. this issue is going to be a centerpiece of his campaign for reelection. guest: it already is. donald trump to use basketball terminology, he views immigration as a high percentage shot with his base. he can't miss. he goes back to it back and -- he goes back to it time and time again. trump is obsessed with his base. he talks about it constantly. you speak to anyone in the white house, he funnels everything through the base. ofis talking about a lot these culturally conservative voters, a lot of blue-collar middle-class voters who he feels like he has this supernatural connection with.

people who come out to his rallies, they wear make america great again hats. the problem with his approach on immigration specifically and with some other issues but immigration, the way he talks about the policy, the people, certainly about these congresswomen as an extension is that donald trump won a 2016 not just because of the base but because he had this coalition of voters including a lot of affluent suburbanites, traditional upscale republicans who held their nose to vote for donald trump because they did not like hillary clinton. they wanted lower taxes and deregulation and conservative justices and they thought this is a binary decision, i will pull the lever for donald trump is much as i find him personally distasteful. we understand from the exit polling, the data that a lot of those suburban republicans who voted for trump in 2016 voted for a democrat in 2018. that is why democrats took back the house. they flipped thousands of these

traditionally republicans districts. trump trying to mobilize his base of constituents, especially along the faultlines of immigration, he runs a risk of alienating those suburban moderates he will need to win a second term. host: potentially he could be reelected with a smaller majority in the house and senate. guest: no question. he could be reelected by losing and in so doing, he could be reelected, losing the popular vote by a significantly larger margin that he lost it by in 2016 which is something that people are beginning to grapple with. host: from texas, our next caller on the republican line. caller: good morning. i want to say that i am a trump supporter and i support him 100%. he is the only one that is doing something about this mass invasion of foreigners. democrats say foreigners, russia meddle in our election.

russia did not call me to vote for him. i voted for him because i believed in what he said. ands sick of the republican democrat party selling america out. we have been invaded since the 70's. they are not americans. we want them out. we want the deported by the millions. they are not americans and i don't think most of you realize that trump supporters are willing to go to civil war if necessary to get them out. host: thank you for the call. we will go to patrick also on the republican line from california. your thoughts. caller: law & order and sovereignty are going to be big issues in the 2020 election. party -- they lost the black vote. blacks are the ones most damage by the jobs being taken by illegal aliens. let's remember law & order.

illegal is illegal. of rhetoric that comes out of the democratic party is ridiculous. look at what omar is saying. how can chuck schumer keep his mouth shut with the kind of about that omar is saying jews? she is an anti-semi. -- anti-semite. chuck schumer is afraid of the far left, the way that pelosi is. she is being hamstrung as well. no one agrees with the far left anymore. no one agrees with the left anymore. host: thank you for the call. both very supportive of the president. guest: i think what you heard from both auntie patrick's last point there, he is right, pelosi and schumer are scared of the far left. they have good reason to be, the same reason boehner and ryan were terrified of the far right. they understood that the power

center in the party, the center of gravity has shifted away from them in a short time. about,mportant to think i just wrote this tome on how far the republican party moved to the right in just a short time and you are seeing something of a mirror image on the left when in that first presidential debate in miami, on the second night, they asked how many of you with your health care plans would cover illegal immigrants and all 10 candidates raise their hands. sort ofa moment that crystallizes where the democratic party is now. almost 10 years exactly prior to that moment, barack obama convened a joint session of congress to dispel some of the more sinister myths about his health care plan, chief among them that he was going to cover illegal immigrants and he was adamant, absolutely not will this plan cover illegal immigrants and joe biden, 10 years later promising -- and he understands the implications of

that but he really has no choice because if anybody on that state said no i am not going to cover illegal immigrants, the incoming they would take from the left would be really damaging and whether you are talking about illegal immigration, health care and how medicare for all was an issue that had no traction whatsoever five or six years ago. barack obama when he crafted the affordable care act, he did not let the single-payer people have a seat at the table and now we see how popular that view is within the party. obama and his first term deported record numbers of illegal immigrants and 10 years later we hear about decriminalizing crossing the border. democrats trying to defeat trump and 2020 run a risk of catering to the far left of the party in a way that sort of brings the middle of the electorate back to donald trump because as repulsed as a lot of these voters may be by trump's friend rick, most voters in the middle will still vote with their pocketbooks and

what affects her livelihoods personally and i think there is a real tension point in the democratic party of understanding that if they move too far away from the center on some of these issues that they risk losing voters, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, a lot of voters who they should be winning easily in 2020. host: tim alberta and his book, "american carnage: on the front lines of the republican civil war and the rise of president trump." two elephants duking it out. steve in st. louis on the democrat line. caller: good morning. a racist to was apologetic for being a racist. that being said, his republican base will only turn on him if his party starts taking their personal social safety net away. host: can you stay on the line because you brought up an issue i want to get your reaction to

and also our guest. can you stay on the line? caller: sure. this is from the front page of the new york times, using race for personal gain is one of trump's old career tactics. let me read to you what peter baker are writing this morning in the new york times. in business,ecades entertainment and now politics, president trump has approached america educate racial, ethnic and religious divisions opportunistically not as wounds to be healed but as openings to achieve his goals whether they be ratings, fame, money or power without regard to adverse consequences. he was accused by government investigators in the 1970's of refusing to write -- rent apartments to black tenants. he denied it but settled the case. in 1980's, he championed the return of the death penalty when five black and hispanic teenagers were charged with raping a jogger. they were later exonerated. he threatened to sell his mar-a-lago estate to the

unification church back in 1991 and a least quote thousands of munis if city officials in palm beach florida did allow him to carveout his property. the new york times goes on to write taking on competitors of his atlantic city casinos, he questioned whether rival owners were really need of americans entitled to federal recognition -- were really native americans entitled to federal recognition. with his eye on the white house, he opened a drive to convince americans president orbach -- barack obama was really born in africa. his own campaign was marred by slurs against mexicans, a proposed ban against muslims. stephen st. louis, you brought up the point, first your reaction. caller: if all of that did not convince the american people that he is a racist, then by being president and saying that there are good people on both sides in charlottesville, after someone was murdered should've convince them by that alone.

evidently, those trump supporters, you are not going to change. just like the germans in world war ii. bodies beingee the piled up from the allies after we won in order for them to say it really was happening in my backyard. host: thank you. we will get a response. point, thereve's is a degree of desensitization baked into the republican electorate at this point. there are without question elements of racism and xenophobia in the republican base that trump was appealing to an sort of this cultural disquiet that can masquerade sometimes as things that are much more sinister. that is problematic in its own right but the point steve is making which i agree with is it is even more problematic when many more republicans who are

not racist, who were not xenophobia's, when they're willing to overlook what the president is doing and saying and when they became -- when they become almost numb to it because it is happening with such frequency that they just sort of shrug and say that is trump, i don't like it and i certainly wish he wouldn't talk this way but i am so going to vote for him because of supreme court justices and vacancies hanging in the balance. much of the book is about this sort of capitulation from within the republican party by a lot of folks who came to view trump as this faustian bargain. they understood that a lot of this was antithetical to what they believe in but they were going to get x, y and z. host: our guest writes for politico. you can look at his work in politico. our next guest is from virginia, republican line. caller: good morning guys. i have a couple questions that have been bugging me.

, -- underuestion is the republican party and this thatel called fox news destroyed clinton over 45 years, that that have any impact on this 2016 election? host: we will get your follow-up. guest: examining the role that fox news played in donald trump's election is a big portion of the book, not just in defeating hillary clinton but in the republican primary. senator ted cruz is a big believer that without fox news, donald trump would have never won the nomination. even as anti-as talisman crusader like he was, someone who enjoyed tons of great media coverage from fox news since coming to congress in 2012, he became public enemy number one for fox news as it became apparent that there was a dual

shaping up between he and trump and i describe a lot of that in the book and intricate detail that essentially, the head of fox news had this pact with donald trump and that ted cruz told his friends after the primary was over that he thought it was roger ailes dialing -- dying wish to make donald trump president. as much as we think about fox news today and the air cover they provide for donald trump and making sure that his voters remain loyal to him, i think it is worth recognizing that he probably would not have been the republican nominee in the first place without the active support of fox news. host: matt did you want to follow-up? caller: my next question is, really to the veterans out there. presidentu support a who when this country called on couldve times to help, he not turn on a piece of equipment, he could not do anything for this country.

host: referring to those five deferments during the vietnam war. guest: this is a question that i had for a lot of veterans but i would meet them at trump rallies because the john mccain comments in addition to the deferments. i had someone say to me, a few weeks back, well biden took deferments and i said i think the issue with trump is not the deferments in isolation but the deferments as a backdrop to his comments about john mccain and mocking prisoners of war for being captured. beis another example and may most glaring example in mastering that entire primary season, the entire 2016 election process how donald trump was able to get away with things that no other politician could ever get away with. it with a bully because he never apologize, he just sort of moved on. he defined the new cycle and the laws of political gravity that said you are not allowed to do this and if you cross this line you certainly have to walk it back. trump refused to walk it back and in a way that projected the

sort of cowboy attitude that a lot of people were drawn to. it is connected to the fox news question. able toald trump was move beyond these controversies it was in large part because the conservative media was not hammering them in the way the mainstream media was. for many republican voters getting their information by fox news, they were simple enough getting there same information. they were not working off the same baseline that many other voters are. they may not even know about some of these controversies or certainly they are not hearing about them every day. host: we will go to carol in hudson, massachusetts, democrats line. caller: good morning. -- on panels the last couple of weeks. he is very articulate. wondering, it might sound

crazy but i have seen a couple shows describing how the orworks can brainwash you --vert or brainwash you into because they repeat themselves over and over. they will give you the phone number five times at the end. people remember it and they picked it up. anytime he comes out for a press conference -- or he doesn't do press conferences. going off to his helicopter and he says the same thing over and over again. no collusion, no obstruction, over and over. whatever it is that he wants to convey. he has to repeat it over and over like his followers are not too bright.

host: to that point, is that part of the playbook? guest: it is. carol is very perceptive, thank you for your feedback. about donaldt trump leaving his base is not too intelligent. i actually think it is something more. trump understands the media cannot keep up with him. even if we are fact checking him seven times out of 10, those other three times we are not, he is saying things that are either misleading or just flatly untrue so often that the new cycle cannot keep up and whether it is about no collusion, whether it is about the biggest tax cut in american history, whether it is any number of things that donald trump has said with regularity and he repeats them over and over. during the campaign he was opposed to the iraq invasion when there was plenty of it -- plenty of evidence that he wasn't. he is smart and understanding

that most viewers are sort of not going to filter everything through a fact checker the way we would like them to and that even the media, we are so busy covering so many different things at once and at times, not busy enough covering with substance and more busy covering the style, we are not able to adequately fact check or report on the context and the nuance of what the president is saying. there is a belief that among the president that if he just says things enough times that eventually he sort of just drowns people out and floods them with information and that by sheer volume he wins out. host: we have a minute left. quickly as you write in your book, his views on some individuals. chris christie. guest: he said that chris christie could not be his attorney general because he was afraid that christie would prosecute his own children and that was sort of a joke but also his view that he needed people in his cabinet who were going to

be unfailingly loyal to him and his family. host: vice president mike pence. guest: trump and pens have a fascinating relationship. i thick it is important to understand that pentz -- i think it is important to understand that pence is loyal to trump and trump appreciates pence because he values people who are unfailingly loyal. host: secretary of state mike pompeo. guest: pompeo is a guy who wants to be president someday and he was your sleep critical of trump andng the 2016 campaign line. is walking a fine he is one of this people who thinks you need to have responsible adults in the room around trump to buffer him from his own worst instincts. pompeo will defend himself to friends and say that that is what he is, one of those adults in the room but if he wants to be president someday, he has to go through the same sort of balancing act that rubio and others are going through. host: potential candidate nikki haley.

guest: took the words out of my mouth. haley more than anybody else believes that she is going to be uniquely equipped to straddle e universes and obviously the way in which she performs in the trump presidency probably left a better taste in the mouth than other figures. she was at the u.n.. she was not not around the west wing every day. there is a sense and a growing sense among republicans that anybody who worked with trump and the administration and supported him in anyway will have this scarlet letter that will be hard to remove in the future. carnage: on the front line of the republican civil war." a full hour with our guest, author of the book. guest: thanks for having me. host: we are back tomorrow morning. congresso the week as tries to wrap up before a six

week august recess. noah bierman of the l.a. times and siobhan hughes will be with us and our 8:00 hour. benjamin friedman, policy director for defense priorities will discuss the latest between the u.s. and iran. that's tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. newsmakers is up next. check out our program on c-span2's book tv and c-span3's american history tv on this 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing. have a great weekend. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] ♪ >> here is a look at some of what's coming up today. newsmakers is next. representative derek kilmer,

chair of the new democratic coalition and on the committee for the modernization of congress will talk about his legislative priorities. of the apolloage 11 splash down and recovery after its mission in 1969. from the u.s. house debate on a resolution condemning president trump for comments he made about freshman lawmakers. later president trump's rally in north carolina the day o -- the day after the house's action. >> beautiful. >> this week marks the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing, and a new c-span poll shows nearly three quarters of americans watched footage either live or recorded of the moon landing. ♪ today at 1030