a" saudi arabian women's rights activists talks about her book about her decision to challenge the ban on government driving. >> a woman is not supposed to drive. we show that we are able and capable of driving our own life and being in the driver's seat and doing our own debt -- and being in charge of our own destiny. >> watch sunday night. host: we are back for our spotlight on magazines. we are talking to adam harris of articlentic about his on education deserts in rural america. what made you focus on this issue? guest: the author of this incredible book essentially

remarked on how educational opportunities aren't the same for people in rural america as they are for in the cities. that comes back to this research that was done from the department of agriculture that show how the gap in college attainment has grown between urban environments and rural environments. what you see from 2000 to 2015 environments, the closing of the gap of people who have high school degrees. you are about as likely to have a high school degree in world america. that gap has grown if you think about college attainment. 15% to 19%.om it's a small increase. the gap for people in urban america has grown more.

you are up to 33%. that is widening. places like the university of alaska where they've lost 41% of their budget and rural american education options are declining. the gap between completion of high school degrees has rural,between urban and that the gap between people who finish college is increasing from urban to roll. -- rural. guest: if you are thinking about to your degrees or other credentials, that gap may look a little different. if you are thinking about a four-year college degree, that gap. host: we have always done a lot of moving from rural to urban areas.

is that have anything to do with increasing the gap? that: there is a thought maybe this is for people who lived in rural areas getting their college degree and moving out of the area. that says a lot about the job opportunities in rural areas. thinking broadly, there are still opportunities in rural america. my family was the same way. there are some concerning factors, particularly the investment in higher education. in montana, one in three people live 60 miles away from the nearest college. you have the outlines of a very serious problem. host: i'm a third generation college graduate.

so many are going online, is that going to have an effect? guest: people can take classes online. people do click -- take classes online. the governor of alaska suggested after they made the 41% cut to the budget, he said people can live stream classes. report,g to a recent only about 53% of people in rural areas have broadband access in their homes. that would require going to a library to do that. in terms of this being at ease it can be aing, systemic problem. what is going on with higher education in alaska?

what exactly are we talking about? guest: late last month, the --ernor of alaska vetoed 135 $130 million of the university system budget. elijah slater had to override that veto or the university was going to have to start cutting removing senior professors , close campuses. they had about two weeks to do this. yesterday was the deadline for them to override the veto. they failed to override the veto. the university of alaska system lost more than $130 million of its budget. that's going to be disastrous for the state and the system.

they may have to start cutting programs and faculty and campuses. host: if you want to join this conversation about education deserts, we want to open up the regional phone lines for you. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, your phone number is (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zone, your phone number is (202) 784-8001. keep in mind, we are always on twitter. this is a question we are always asking, why does this matter? why does it matter that there aregaps between people who getting degrees in rural areas versus urban areas. thinking you are

wrongly about what education was be, the founders estimations of what education could be, you had people like george washington arguing for national universities were people could learn the arts and sciences and get practical skills. they would also learn to be citizens. colleges can be places where people learn how to be good citizens. they used to be seen as a public good. itve drifted to where we see as a private good. businessour driving -- degree so you can make money. it stimulates the accounting. they've invested in higher education is they've seen the practical benefits through the economy. economic stimulation of the country, more educated people,

the more stimulated the economy is. host: i'm glad you brought up tennessee. several states are now offering those free community colleges, free first two years. statesseeing more rural moved to this form of getting people into the universities? does it even matter if they try it? guest: it's a patchwork in terms of where precollege programs of popped up. a dozen states of launched free tuition programs for committee free programs for low income students in particular. texas said it of would offer scholarships to any student whose families made less than $60,000 per year. picture,e thinking big there has been an explosion of

free college programs leading to this democratic primary were several have proposed a national model. of right now, the states are doing it. host: let's go to the phone lines. good morning. caller: i want to talk about the online courses. i'm a senior citizen. that the choice of like chemistry or engineering, more of the fine arts courses are very reasonably priced. course sign up for a from a really great university. they are so well structured. on the a reading book side. it's a really good idea for people that want to take courses

that are too far away or that may not have job opportunities. like literature or history. host: before he answers your question, it doesn't matter how old you are. you can always go back to school. knowledge is always a good thing to have. guest: universities have been building out for online education for the last several years. southern new hampshire university, arizona state grown into they have this enterprise. the way they are thinking about access and affordability and , they arecation trying to figure out how to have that classroom experience like chemistry and make sure the

online experience is as robust as the experience in the classroom. how the student loan issue affects college attendance. get loans into rural areas than urban? are they difficult to get all the way around? guest: since the federal government switched over from bank based lending, all student throughe going to go the federal government. students will be able to get their subsidized loans up to a certain point. this, are thinking about it's less expensive than a private institution. you're not looking at $20,000 per year for tuition. typically, your student loans will be able to cover that.

i think that right now, people are rethinking the way that student loans are being factored into how to pay for college. whatu are looking at student loans were supposed to be, they were supposed to be a tool to pay for college. now it's necessary to take out student loans. candidates and policymakers are this can remain something you don't have to go into debt for. more privatere universities or public universities that are available to students? it's a mix. you do have your small private universities, you have your small regional public universities. one of the issues we see,

especially state funding being cut, the smaller public universities are having to reduce their program. they might get rid of some liberal arts programs or become singlesed around a issue. getof the other programs what resources are left over. we see the strangling of university budgets. have to pick and choose what they are doing in order to serve students. the chronicle of higher education ran an article the other day about the term cannot be everything to everyone. university near you might be cutting a geography program. what do you lose when they get cut? host: let's talk to gary from virginia. good morning. caller: actually, it's barry.

thank you for this program. i did a study for the commercial real estate industry on reducing the workforce gap. that's an economic development issue. i think the fact that most of these rural communities in the united states are concerned about the labor shortage they have. they are trying to find ways to keep their talented people in the rural area and not moved to the city or the suburbs. that is the issue. development, the education gap will follow once you get the kids involved in the local economy. the business community knows they are not going to survive without talent coming back to them.

i've looked at three or four programs in rural areas were many kids never thought they were college material because they got involved in the local economy. economic development is the goal, not going to college. with: that is one argument economic development. there is also the argument that one of the reasons why amazon may have come to virginia is because there are more educated people there. of thes a question chicken or big situation. is talent following the development? i don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. economicou can have development and also invest in education. if you are looking at arizona state, they partner with

industries in order to develop programs that tie some of those skills companies will need to the curriculum. there is still a lot of work to be done in terms of economic development in rural areas. there is a lot of work to be done in terms of college attainment. host: one of the things we haven't talked about is the role of private for-profit universities. do we see those schools trying to fill in these gaps between the private university and the public university? gapthey slipping in that where people want the education? decade, youthe last did see an explosion of the for-profit sector in rural areas. you see the constriction of those. itt tech closed.

most recently, another school closed. i spoke to some students in alabama after the closure of virginia college. what to doondering next. this seemed like a path forward. there credits may not transfer. institutionsit have moved into these areas to fill the gap. there is still a need for a public affordable option. education is a public good. to ryan fromalk maryland. good morning. caller: private colleges have particularly high dropout rates. with people spending large amounts of money and not getting degree, do you see that service

is still valuable? guest: one of the biggest problems we are facing right now done a littlehave bit of college and taken on debt and of not finished their degree. they are responsible for paying off that debt without the benefit of the college degree. a very serious problem that a lot of people are trying to figure out how to deal with. there's an interesting program out of wayne state university. essentially, they are helping people who have done a little bit of college and dropped out and are interested in returning. they are helping them get in the door and get through college. they have thought about what to do about the prices. if you are dropping out, you may be coming back. how do you get those people back? the debt burden isn't just

sitting there without the benefit of the college degree. host: this is washington. everything has a political bend. this is what you wrote about this issue. confidenceshown that in higher education has decreased. the survey found that 61% are collegesbout the past and universities are on. republicans overwhelmingly saw negative views of the sector. 73% thought higher education was going in the wrong or action. 39% oftold found republicans had confidence in the sector, down 17 points.

they see colleges and universities of having a liberal bias. liberal professors outnumber conservative ones on campus. is this what causing the problem? guest: you are seeing this mistrust of institutions, of higher education spilling into how they are viewed by politics. if you are looking at president trump executive order about campus speech, threatening universities with pulling federal research dollars if they didn't protect free speech on campus, colleges and universities are one of the fundamental reasons we are here, to protect free speech broadly. you have seen this mistrust saying if you

don't believe what we believe you should be doing, you should attack their funds. a battle between political viewpoints, a battle over education. guest: it's a mix of things. education isings, a very easy thing for states to cut. if they are looking to balance the budget, higher education will be one of the first places they go. it's easier than cutting k-12 and health care. the place you will see the most the mistrustuts, of the institution and if you're not aligning graduates to jobs as well as we think you should you should not be getting

doitional resources to malicious things toward one side or the other. host: elizabeth is calling from new jersey. and morning. caller: i have some familiarity with rural areas. my mother hails from them. , she came toft philadelphia. got employment and skills in the medical field. she had to uproot herself, her father before her went to ohio. we had to stay there five days a week to work for a railroad company. this is not an affluent family. they had historical roots in northwestern pennsylvania.

all the industries up there that paid anything related to coal, steal, and oil. since they are on the decline close down a lot of factories, they have some small priceyolleges, some colleges. unless the family has money right now from when they had real jobs in that area, their children and grandchildren have a hard time getting to a college and paying for it. it's not around the corner. milesverage about 100 from places like pittsburgh and cleveland. do as --hat we need to

be can't some of those jobs done in places like the rust belt? people who are capable of learning it. childrenmy cousin's have advanced degrees. they had to leave the area. you have baby boomers aging with their children. guest: i think this gets back to one of the earlier questions about economic development in rural areas. businesses moving to these areas in order to provide stimulus. it does have to be a two-pronged thing where the business has to get into those areas and states have to shift to say we believe

an investment in the education of people is important in order to help attract. one of the interesting things around colleges, they become economic drivers for areas on their own. the people in the area worked for the university, businesses will want to,. .- come there is a partnership. it's linked fundamentally. .hat needs to be addressed if that's something i will watch on the campaign trail going forward. host: once the solution? guest: greater investment in higher education is one of the first answers. states have to be viewing college not a something that only helps the individual, but something that helps people more broadly.

when we are thinking about education deserts, we should be also thinking about the two-year colleges and the community colleges. places where people can go and get skills to get a job or leapfrog into a four-year institution by whatever path is best. providing that opportunity for ultimately help states with their economic development and growth. host: we have a call from alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. conversation,ur you mentioned the higher percentage of people that had college degrees of the total population stimulates the economy. i'm questioning that.

can you tell me where you got that from? i will get your answer. photograph of the one-room schoolhouse that accompanies your article looks exactly like the one i went to when i was a kid in rural kansas. thank you for your response. if you are looking over stateswth of the united and as the united states has had aboom in its economy, it couple is a growth in college attainment rates. to georgia.talk good morning. i love c-span. i am proud to be an american. education is the key to success.

in the united states of america, we have devalued the preciousness of education. you made a great point when you first came on. the founders envisioned education as being the roadmap to being an informed citizen. put education on the back burner. it's all about self gratification. until we are able to put the priority, i don't know what we're going to do. talk to you later. guest: thank you so much for calling in. if you are thinking about the reasons why we see large-scale government investment in higher education, even pell grant and the g.i. bill and the monroe

act, they did exclude classes of people. if you're thinking about why made, thestments were people who were investing said we need a more educated this.tion or to have education is seen as a public good. until that shift happens where we view it as a public good, we may continue to see the problems we have right now. host: let's talk to one more caller from staten island, new york. everybody wants pell grant's.

s. columbia is $55,000 a year. books are more money. thank you. host: it's getting more expensive. --st: the cost of college the sticker price is outpaced inflation. really looking at what happened to some of the smaller private institutions, you see a constriction of the sector where they become more tuition dependent. are going to need to pay more tuition to attend school. they are discounting it more. their budget lines aren't matching up. that's causing problems for small private colleges.

going toschools are see a difficult path. host: we would like to thank adam harris for talking about his jerome powell will be holding a news conference shortly. news from their meeting saying the federal reserve has cut the federal funds rate by a quarter point, first reduction in a decade a cut -- according to the associated press. we will hear more from chairman powell coming up at 2:30 eastern here on c-span. live coverage here and also on c-span.org and on the c-span radio app. back to campaign 2020 this weekend, we will show you last night cnn democratic presidential debate in detroit coming up saturday. it rears 10:30 a.m. here on c-span -- reairs at 10:30 a.m. here on c-span. >> reagan is an intellectual.

he understands the power of ideas. with that kind of foundation, that intellectual foundation, a political leader can do all kinds of marvelous things. announcer: author and historian lee edwards will be our guest on in-depth sunday from noon to 2:00 p.m. eastern. mr. edwards is the author of "just right." biographiestion of on barry gold rod of butter and ronald reagan. join our conversation with your phone calls, tweets, and facebook questions. watch in-depth with author lee edwards live on sunday from noon to 2:00 p.m. eastern, and watch our live coverage of the book festival on saturday, august 31 on booktv on cspan 2. last nights debate in detroit hosted by cnn. we are getting your reaction to it this morning. here are the headlines from some of the major national papers. nd