for thousands of people trying to protect themselves from death and all kinds of horrible, torturous situations. is theen johnson executive director of the american lawyers association. ""washington journal

continues. host: jessica vaughan is back at her desk. she serves as policy studies director at the center for immigration studies. not a single democratic candidate thinks the current immigration system is working. president trump has called it broken repeatedly. if it were up to you to fix the system, where would you start? guest: i think i would start nothing -- why do we have an immigration system to decide which immigrants we want to admit and build from there? we want people to be able to build their -- bring their spouses and other close immediate family members. we want our employers to have access to a global bullet talent, skilled individuals -- global pool of talent, skilled individuals. we want to continue to have a

humanitarian admission program. how many people should we be offering resettlement to? we could probably do away with programs like the visa lottery and certain other ones that have outlived any useful purpose. host: what should be the goal? what do you think is the right number of immigrants coming into this country illegally each year? guest: it should be based on our and not becountry disadvantaging americans in any way if possible. to make sure people can keep their immediate families together if they happen to marry somebody from another country and to be able to attract this global pool of talent -- it is hard to set a number on that. if you're keeping your standards

, you're goingng to have to have a numerical limit. there will always be more people in the world who want to come to the united states. we have to be willing to enforce the limits that we have. if we don't enforce the rules, there's no point to having rules. host: immigration is a huge topic. towards 2020, is it focused on the right topic as the candidates talk about immigration? guest: the president will end up focusing on two things. first, how he's dealt with the crisis at the border, which is foremost in people's minds on the immigration issue. it is an enormous challenge to community's around the country -- communities across the

country who have to deal with this massive influx of people coming in over the last five years. solving that issue will be something the president is going to have to run on. i also think republicans are definey going to try to their vision for our immigration system and how they would like to see it and how we can build a system that doesn't serve us well as a nation -- does serve us well as a nation and still offers the promise of becoming an american citizen to many people abroad. we taken over one million people in over one we take we take inople -- all over one million people --

we take in over one million people legally. trump hass president made from the obama administration, resisting this idea of a more moderate level of immigration. host: what would be the impact of abolishing ice? guest: they would find that to be a mistake. already, a number of democratic candidates have shied away from that. if people want to have the rules everyonenforced, recognizes the real value that as not onlyn agency a value for public safety and addressing problems of that small fraction of illegal immigrants who come here who are committing crimes getting them

off of our streets, but also addressing the problem of illegal employment, fraud and our immigration system -- in our immigration system. host: how much new wall has been built since president trump became president? has he lived up to his promise of what will be built? guest: he has not achieved his goal in terms of getting more barriers at the border. some barriers that were falling apart, the fencing in california, that has been replaced. we saw the caravan pushing through that. it was obvious that that needed to be replaced. there are some new barriers going up now, but the big problem for the president has lawsuits,resistance, and frankly, congress getting in the way as well, being unwilling

to appropriate funding for it. host: jessica vaughan with us until our program ends at 10:00 eastern this morning. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. ontinuing this discussion the topic of immigration and campaign 2020 as we focus on individual topics for each of our programs this week. jerry has been waiting in grove, oklahoma. an independent. thank you for waiting so long. caller: thank you. i agree with the lady. the talent pool we want to bring into america should be verified. it should be whatever meets the needs of this nation. one of my complaints about the whole immigration issue, no one looks back through history. ronald reagan started the program where you had to hire

only american citizens. -- we his own e-verify had five forms of verification, forms of id. license, social security number -- you had 15 days to do that verification. if you couldn't verify in 15 days and the employee was still fineded by you, you were $5,000. i was managing a store near the tijuana border. within the first three weeks, i terminated 30% of my employees. hrhad personnel people from in our store each week. they would pull the personnel files and look in it and check out each employee to make sure

verification was done, but there was a copy of it in your file, they would look at the hire date and they would say this employee is to be terminated right now. host: you think that system works better than the voluntary e-verify system we have now? caller: god yes. you don't have an e-verify system now. sheriff was down on the from phoenix, arizona. he went to the city government and he was arresting illegals and 10% of the city government were illegals. host: jessica vaughan? guest: you've hit the main point here on addressing illegal immigration.

the main reason people are coming here legally is to work -- illegally is to work. when we have a robust system for from hiringmployers illegal workers instead of americans that share a zone a is one of the places that succeeded arizona is one of the places that succeeded in that. they had a system to verify employees already on the payroll. they were able to reduce the number of illegal workers by 13% in just the first year. that's according to a study done by a california think tank. decline in the illegal population that occurred when a number of other states required e-verify when the

federal government was doing more work enforcement in 2008 in 2009. it is one of the most effective ways we have of deterring illegal immigration. mark was on this program two weeks ago talking about the e-verify issue. ont's available www.c-span.org. carrie in las vegas. a democrat. good morning. caller: i was just wanting to call when the last guy was on -- i don't like it, these lawyers profiting off illegal immigration, continuing to speak from their pocketbooks. this is about simple economics. the people coming here are good people but they come here with little education, they land in the most expensive places in

america like l.a. where i lived for 15 years -- how are they supposed to survive? they don't. it results in terrible schools, housing inflation -- half the class doesn't speak english and your kid is stuck in that. places like brentwood, they send their kids to private school. every ballot measure passes. sales tax goes up -- your vote becomes worthless. open borders when you have a welfare state. you have to pick one. when they say these people don't get benefits -- yes, they do. as soon as you have a child in america, you qualify for everything. to havere getting paid their own grandparents watch their child. what we are doing is insanity. guest: this is the reason

illegal immigration -- one main reason why illegal immigration is such a problem for our country. that's not because the people who are coming are such bad people but because on average, they tend to be less educated than americans are and are not well-equipped to succeed here, are assigned to jobs that pay less that have little upward mobility, and so, they depend on public assistance programs to a great extent. is because there isn't access to these programs because they have children here who are american citizens. 63% of all immigrant households, including legal and illegal households, are accessing some form of public assistance. that's because there is this

disconnect in the education and skills they have and what our employers are requiring a people to support yourself. people in order to support yourself. host: can you remind viewers what the public charge rules change is? is that something you support? guest: yes. this is a long-overdue thisation to better define concept in our immigration law that dates back to the 1800s, 1882 to be exact, that says the showrants we admit must they are able to be self-sufficient before they can be admitted as a public resident. evaluated one their ability to support themselves. we have so many people in the

world who want to come here. we have 4 million people on the waiting list to been sponsored -- who have been sponsored waiting to get their green cards. we need to weed out those applicants who can't support themselves and the next people in line can step up and take those valued green cards. host: texas. david, a republican. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. guest.y love the last the caller called out the fact that he's a sellout that is been bought off by somebody. i live in what used to be a mostly black community. it has been taken over.

when they come to our communities, they step on us, theydon't care about us, with cars andks parties until 4:00 in the morning. host: are you talking about illegal immigrants? who are you referring to? david. we lost the other problem with illegal immigration is because employers are still able to get away with hiring workers who are here illegally, that means able-bodied and willing workers who are legal immigrants don't have access to those job opportunities. they are displaced and they see their wages decline.

we have four or 5 million people who've dropped out of the labor market. there's millions of americans who have given up looking for jobs. we have something like 12 million illegal aliens living in the country, most of whom are working, 8 million of them are working. you can see how this displacement occurs. that's another reason we need to get a handle on immigration. that's a reason we need to look at our legal immigration system and make sure it is not disadvantaging americans. host: dominic in new york. an independent. good morning. caller: i'm a union worker, a laborer, local 79 construction. i remember when the housing crash happened, the only people who are working were illegal immigrants.

hourget nine dollars an and we get $37 an hour in benefits. that's why chrysler went to mexico, they want to pay three dollars an hour down there. 75% of these illegals coming here are young men. they're coming here to be construction workers. they are nice people, but they are taking our jobs. host: do you blame the employers who are willing to do that or the folks who are coming here illegally? caller: something has to be done. it has to stop. we are going to lose all our jobs. you're talking about 12 million people? it's 30 million people. that was figured out already. it's no 12 minute people. guest: he's hitting the nail on

the head with the displacement of workers. the construction industry is done largely by americans and some legal immigrants. it's not that we need more illegal immigrants to do this work. we have enough workers who can do it and we have other ways to get things done. this is all about profits for the builders. those homes that are built by illegal alien labor don't get any cheaper because the builders are using illegal labor. americans are getting displaced from jobs that they can support a family on. these are not jobs americans won't do. that's why states like pennsylvania focused on the building trades industry to require e-verify so that those employers cannot get away with bypassing american workers. host: the number cited most

illegal 11 million immigrants. guest: we think it's more like 12 million. the 11 million figure is a few years old. this been this influx at the andhwest quarter deportation levels have remained flat. the population is growing. host: jessica vaughan with us for another 20 minutes. if you have questions on the topic of immigration, a very broad topic, especially in the context of campaign 2020, republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. john in herndon, virginia. a democrat. good virginia. caller: it is sad that every people election comes

become a ping-pong. you have seen every home care ystem in america the majority of people are immigrants. people who clean the roads and pick up trash they are immigrants. people working at schools are up grant immigrants. they are not all perfect. the reality is if there are no wouldn't be here. country has a problem. -- el salvador, guatamala. we will bringules people every year a certain people, they would work legally. uest: i agree, people are coming here to work for the most

part. americansm is we have and legal immigrants who need to e job opportunities support their families and some the immigration aware getting we are getting is not lined up with our needs. coming illegally is coming over the border. we get about 600,000 a year who overstay. visa and they don't go home when their and admission period expires. where are they mostly coming from? worse about five have the and they include china and and mexico, brazil and

venezuela have high numbers. out and worse overstay rate is the student and exchange visitor but some guestay short-term visas, visas. that is part of it that can't be with wall. hiringould deter illegal that would help but the administration has started a contact people o remind them that the visa is expiring. they are looking at which the problem and issuing fewer visas to them. it has to be done through enforcement and not just committed crimes. we need it encourage people to has when their period expired.

host: are you saying some of forgetfulness as opposed to intentional? it is i think most of intentional. i think a lot of it happens they can ople think get away with it because nobody is paying tanks. -- paying attention. if you came in on a visitor visa part of the problem of six months, it should be a month or so. but when they get appear e-mail aying -- an e-mail reminding you that your time is up and here are the penalties it would see if this g to results in people saying tanksment -- ying attention. good morning. an academician and medical

come into think i this with the intersection of about the st spoke overstay. e have the five countries, indian, china, venezuela, mexico at theticularly i'm here hospital leading rounds. colleagues are from indian and china, pakistan iranians, these are the older physicians but the younger physicians, surgeons, orthopedic s, urgeons, this is in this country they are fortune. foreign.re y adult children just finished we a-- duke and hard and

have this visa overstay with africans. e can define the form because i teach cal physician and practice. is know and if anybody going to the doctor will see hey are having fortune doctors that is -- foreign doctors because in the persist 30 years not producing -- i watch i thank brian lamb and dialogue -- lose you you are going in and out i want to give er a chance to respond and you to hear. guest: she pointed out our attracting system is

people from all over the world we should be proud of that. allowing too e many people to come in through educational programs or not likely to return home so we the balance between attract being the best and brightest andle from around the world also making sure that a student do not become a an excuse to stay here illegally. a lot of these countries need the people they invested in and all their lives to get an to ation here and return their home country to help there. be in here would that your mind? how much do we need it trim or to trim or add to the student visa process? we need to make sure the

institutions we allow to bring students are rigorous accredited institutions where a real education nd not allow fly by night diploma mills it bring people in an education.e of it is tens of thousands of people who have come in under programs. we also have a program called training al practical program that allows people to stay on and work a couple of after the conclusion or during their studies. magnet for ing as a people not to study but to get a we need regulations to make sure that is training and home at the ing conclusion and not displacing american workers and employers using that to bypass

american works. 10 minutes left with jessica vaughan. we will get as many calls as we can. michigan, independent. lake : i'm looking on uron and if i go out 50 miles in canada. we don't do that because it is disrespectful to canada. we have is a bunch of politicians, mainly democrats republicans to not respect our own laws. failing as a country, we are enableers countries whether you want to talk mexico do not matter. in their to stay country and fix country. --is not being project disor

or prejudice. to places i would never does respect their laws. you feel about segregati-- heal immigration. a million. caller: the right number will go up and down. a million and the isas that are overstayed you make them buy a roundtrip ticket and hold that against them. fail to leave when they are supposed to that part of forfeited. is that is used to track them down. 911 commission -- this is deep topic. the most vulnerable spot in this country is the southern border. that way since the iranian hostage crisis and befo before.

it is not about hatred. own country. we cannot fix your country. guest: he's right in the sense that many people are coming know they can get away with it and that is part of .he problem right now there are so few consequences at the southern border and getting released into in on ntry or for coming a visa and overstaying. sense of risk l now and this right sometimes people will do it as long as they can get away with we found this out before t2007 through 2009 period enforced more rigorously people realized that might not a good choice to

come here and stay illegally and own.would go home on their this is where we need to move with enforcement. a great job against people who are arrested for causing problems in gangs or public safety threats. kwaoe need more of a -- we need culture of compliance and americans will have more system.ce in the host: do you think detaining amilies longer periods helps create that system? guest: there are couple of purposes for family detention. is to make sure they go through their due process and proceedings so they can be removed if they qualify. this has worked in the mid we we had another asylum crisis and people are taking the opportunity to

them leased and half of re forth filing -- are not filing an asylum application and release them they stay on. a new regulation that the administration sought to do keenumuld enable them to longer them in custody would go a long way. democrat from ohio. caller: good morning. question is more of a factual questi question. you have already dispatched the some that there are 30 plus million illegal immigrants -- the countant country. immigrants are

public elections? that seems to be a political hot topic. the other is, under the family exactly gement system how many people appeared for immigration or asylum hearings? i will u very much and get off the phone. uest: on the question of illegal aliens voting, we don't it is very difficult to if you can that out. the voting process is largely controlled by state and local many have chosen try to figure that out. we do know that some people do. i actually think the greater roblem might be having voter registration systems that get a

or ineligiblefied rolls that frau advantage can take of. i'm sure it happens but i think problem of registration is a bigger one. with respect to the familiar case management program this was a program that was started under obama administration that provided intense services to had arrived to -- alse that arrived it apply for asylum. the results are not entirely cases ecause a lot of haven't been completed because -- huge uch a luggage backlog. up for theany showed tpeufirst hearing but it didn'tw ist happens when the process

complete. a lot of agencies that support the program don't take any for making sure that people actually leaf the country we eave the a judge orders them removed and we have about a million people ordered removed and have not gone home. loredo, texas is next. thank you for taking my call. e have to understand the immigration system and i have questions that maybe you could clarify. give us one or two because we are running out of time. caller: it comes from the three have very lu little

world bank. the away make a contract with minors and when they return receive money from the world bank for the individuals. they are not coming for free and we had reason is hearings we created instability nations. guest: he's addressed a problem separate from the family issue which is unaccompanied that are arriving. that started about 2012 mostly texas.uth parents who were living in the country illegally for their kids

who were left behind in central because of policy changes the kids were usually a certain period of time in u.s. custody and families.ith their we started to see a huge influx a system -- there is a system of contractors who care or these kids until an appropriate placement can be made. .t still is a big problem it has caused problems in many because bad act fors tarted taking advantage of the pol olicy including gangs based in central america and now we are kind of cleaning up some of the that were created by this influx of kids. host: richmond, virginia.

caller: i'm in my 30's and was 11 million in grade s school. keep hearing democrats saying we have a lawless president. doesn't the law say all illegal mmigrants are subject it deportation and would want it be appropriate to say if you are illegally there should be deported? law : that is what the says. anyone, whether you are a fell -- felon or not is subject it deportation. reason that the number of aliens that we count in ur population hasn't gone,so dramatically is because there ave been a lot of amnesties since 1986 where it is easier say let's ians it

launder the status of people the fundamental problems that result in illegal enable ion and that illegal immigration. aw we are probably going to have to have appear tack y but we should not th -- take that without first problems that facilitate illegal immigration and adjusting other parts of our illegal immigration system to make up for the number this with be admitted. host: if you want to see more of cis.org theghan work powel policy study director. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] we have author interviews on words and the

book heartbeat of wounded knee sharon robinson child of the ream and the british are coming. and thomas meteorology founding center of the m.i.t. collective after intelligen-- intelligence. hat is saturday on back tv on c-span 2. our live coverage for wednesday on c-span. a discussion on the importance of the u.s.a., japan soccer -- security alliance.

sunday night on q&a. university of pennsylvania law on free ofessor expression on college campuses collect surrounded a piece she co-authored in the inquirer.ia not all cultures are alike. we are trying to tap this code suited functional and o our society and comparing it to other cultures which are not as functional. we gave examples and that caused firestorm. >> that is sunday night 8:00 q&a.eastern on next a look at the role of china and obal health industries how that impacts the u.s.