an answer to that yet. we know that they expect to do so at some point and we know that they would hope to finish this up pretty quickly, but we have any seteally timeline and things could drag year.o the new ferrechio is the chief congressional correspondent for the washington examiner, www.washingtonexamineer.com and tweet her @susanferrechio. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> now, any take you live to nashville's music city center for politicon. first, a discussion on politics coulter andst ann political commentary david crumb. on c-span.e coverage

[background conversations] >> hello, politicon, how are we doing? [applause] be back ateat to politicon in nashville, tennessee, how many folks here nashville? wow. how many folks are from outside of nashville? cheering] >> how many people here are from outside of the country? back.got a few in the nice. well, my name is steven, i'm the president of the millennial action project, we're a national nonpartisan organization working with young bridge theicials to political divides in our country and to enact systemic reforms to our democracy function better. today, we've got an amazing discussion lined up for all of with two of the leading political commentators in our

country, so let's bring them out. first of all, we have writer, commentator and author of 13 new seller sellers, ann coulter, give her a round of applause. [applause] >> do i go there? >> right in the middle. >> thank you. andnd another writer commentator and writer at the atlantic, give a big round of david fromm. all right. feeling?e >> great, so good to be here. >> excellent. well, i commented that both of you are authors and david in the commentedve actually about ann's book on immigration, that it was perhaps one of the politically influential books in our country around the issue of immigration. so let me start with you, david. did you make that comment?

>> well, i said it was the most directly politically influential written thisad book about immigration that read. trump had donald trump at that point was known for really one point of view, which is his advocacy of protectionism. that had been the signature issue since the '80s. he found ann's book and found his idea and that was the to overcome rode the republican field. what had happened in the aftermath of the great recession was that republican voters had decided what we want is more less immigration, and no more bushes. and the republican establishment moreright, got it, immigration, less healthcare, and one more bush. a rotten was floorboard and ann showed donald trump the way to pierce it, from my point of view, tragic country,ces for the but great consequences for ann because she became really a kingmaker. >> and we're going to dig into that. one of the main topics we'll touch on today is immigration

and in terms of format this is be an informal conversation. now, both of you leading into years and during the trump years have been immigration hawks, but since have has been elected, you converged on your views on the administration's views on policies, one of those big differences is on the wall itself. i'll start with you ann. first of all, what did it feel the soon to be president reading your book, agreeing with a lot of your why do you think he has agreed with you on a lot of topics? >> the strange thing is why no other republicans would just popularthis obviously issue. americans, every time immigration has been put to a vote, i mean, going back to the '70s, americans have voted for legal immigration and a complete stop to illegal immigration and it's just like brexit, except we've been putting up with it since the '70s. decade after decade after decade. i completely agree with what

david just said. this is what the republican would not deliver. now, when they run for office, oh, they promised to get tough on immigration. in many famous instances, one of thinkst egregious that i was one of the many incidents int led to donald trump was 2014, obama's president, minority.s are a how did republicans take a majority in the senate in 2014? well, that was when obama was issue hisg to executive order on dreamers, spent the previous immigrationelling activist groups i can't do that, that would be unconstitutional. so the constitutional law said what heself was doing by executive order was unconstitutional. mitch mcconnell, the republican senatorial committee, alexander, all of them go out and say vote for us and we will -- we have a lot of ways to obama's executive amnesty. we go out, we vote for them, and

did they follow through? did not. they did absolutely nothing. and to this day, i mean, trump done nothing either, but americans have been betrayed, betrayed, betrayed. it is weird that trump is the know,ne to say hey, i i'll run on a popular issue. >> let's go to david, you obviously disagree with what a lot of what the trump administration has been doing. one of those big things you disagree with is the wall. thinkst tell us why you generally he's read the issue wrongly and why you think the wall is incorrect. me, that's not one of my big problems with the trump administration. foolish is obviously a idea. invented.ne has been deeper.issent goes i mean, i see donald trump as -- he's a con man, he's a criminal, beholden to foreign interests, he shouldn't be president.

my vision about why immigration important issue was that if we are going to cope has done globalization to advance societies and not succumb to people like donald like, not vote for things brexit, you have to build a society with a stronger sense of national identity. thicker bonds between citizens. so that means more social provision, it's going to mean a national health insurance program, something i've been an advocate of for now, a while. and you can only do that if people have an idea we're not planetiting this for the or for whoever shows up, that the claim that we're making upon precisely a claim as citizens and that has to be by the way -- it's very racially that they be and ethnically neutral because americans will not vote for this matter of the supremacy of one group it another. and i watch with horror what trump -- everything he touches, he discredits. the fact that he took up this issue and associated it with himself, that

morew have made it difficult to come up with a responsible approach to immigration. immigration numbers actually the trump years, especially in the first half of 2019, and we are going to make difficult therefore, to solve all the other problems that need to be solved if societies are to be saved from of self-harm that so many societies are doing to themselves. bit --s dig a little >> can i respond to that, i think that's a beautiful point lost, yourldn't be citizen point, that we're part of a family, it's the american family and there have been areies on this that people less inclined to vote for, you of socialkinds programs when they don't feel a there'son, when diversity, it's supposed to be such a wonderful thing. in fact, studies and the authors like the robert putnam study out of harvard, he was the bowling alone guy, he did study after people feel less cohesiveness the more diverse is, their community is, they participate less, they're not interested in civic

values. so i don't want david's point on feeling likee of we're a family together, not exactly like your own family, you feel a little closer to your family, your neighbors, we are all americans. great point.s a as for -- and that was exactly what i was worried about when trump came down the escalator, his second point, that trump has ideas.credited important i think that's not true. but that was absolutely the fear, which is why, even though two days after he came down the mexicanr with the rapist speech as i fondly refer bill, i did go on with maher and said i think he would be the nominee, because at least about it, not in the terms i would have put it. he was talking about an issue wouldo other republican raise. sometimes, democrats would raise it, but not follow through so weeks i wasn't for trump.

for one thing i was expecting him to back away, but for thing, i mean, i was rather concerned, is he going to he'll loseissue, because, you know, he's a coarse vulgarian, but they will claim he lost because of the issues. won, i will tell you the world has changed in a big way. i don't want him to hear this because i'm going to keep trolling him and attacking him until he fulfills his promises to the voters, but even if he doesn't fulfill his promises to the voters, which is an outrageous betrayal and should be forgiven, even if he does not, the world has changed in a way that is -- i'm very sensitive to, i think if i say it, you'll be sensitive to because back in the 2000s when mccain was pushing amnesty and bush was pushing amnesty, and rubioccain comes -- or runs for senate in florida, promising on his mother's life that he would not come out for gets to the senate and what's the first thing he does?

i got an amnesty bill. betrayed,eing betrayed, betrayed, it could -- could have queered the deal. it would have been blamed on him pushing popular issues. back then in the 2000s, i could count on one hand the theer of people in conservative media. >> most of the talk radio hosts, most of the conservative names conservatives out there in the audience, names you would know that i'm not going to mention. absolutely, 100% for amnesty. days.were dock we thought it was over, we had nobody on our side. degrees.changed, 180 now, i drive around listening to talk radio, and radio hosts who

only never talked about immigration, but if they did, ory were completely against for amnesty, and for you know, we have to do this, we have to do that, how are we going to get the hispanic vote, now they're from adios reading america, point after point after point. look at how fox news has flipped. i mean that little episode i was just describing where republicans get us to vote for in 2014, we vote for them because they promised to block they's executive amnesty, betray us. wrote an article, just recording what was on fox news primetime, night, as democrats were filibustering the bill. fox wasabout amnesty, not alerting the troops, they wanted amnesty. probablyso recall because of immigration, rupert murddoch wanted to stop trump. famously leaked before the that fox news debate

recuperate murdoch had called over and said this has gone on long enough. that was supposed to shut trump down and instead poll after poll after poll he won. why? because of immigration. [applause] the trump story of years is the story of the party that wins more and more of less and less. it's true that fox news and talk radio have consolidated behind the trump approach, but they are an ever dwindling part of america. this kind of change, a civic compact,he strengthening bonds between citizens would ever happen, the way you would get social permission, the national civic permission to enforce the law flow ofaper off the numbers to a more sustainable level, which is not zero, by the way. immigration is not a binary issue, it's a matter of more or

what kind andnd in what order! the way you get that is with a law that is going to as daniel said about healthcare will pass 70-30 or it won't pass at all. the trump method, which is about self-seeking always, is about polarizing, because the only way he can mobilize people behind them so angry at their opponents that they don't look at him. and that's going on right now this impeachment process. so where i think we're going to trump, iscause of we're going to end up with some immigrationtion on of a kind that has been so brutal as to radicalize in the way people who might have potentially supported a humane approach, numbers have flowed now through the asylum seeking system rather than through the regular immigration system. and any kind of hope for a cross broken.nsensus has been republicans are radicalized behind their positions,

radicalizedve been even more. the kinds of things -- if you quote things that barack obama his second book about immigration, people don't the author was. people will be shocked because of where the democratic party in 2007 on the immigration issue and where it is now. and that's something to do with work of the democratic party, but it's something to do with donald trump. we can't solve any problem, ofess we have a strong sense national cohesion, of not only solidarity, but sympathy, of respect for each other. we can't solve anything because of the -- it's not a system, things have to go through the house and the senate, they have to be enforced by the states, the agencies have to have buy-in. you have to build a real consensus and if you have a approach that is about inflammation and rage and locking people ever deeper into

silos, so thate they never -- so they trust their leaders no matter how are,tive those leaders nothing will be done and nothing has been done in the trump years or any other. it really is remarkable how thin and it isrecord is thin, at least any public spirited act, he's done a lot of graft, but on the things that a president might want to do, he becauseen very little he has not got the mechanism of leading the nation. tvald trump can never go on and speak to america because he doesn't know that place. andnly knows his america his america is becoming more moreted, and it's becoming a minority. >> i would disagree with that to the -- i think -- i don't disagree with your description of what has happened, but i blaming the kind of victim. when everything trump does, even wheneasonable things, even seen,aks well, i've never

it's like a collective psychosis minds.erals lose their [applause] take something that i think and just, you know, hear me out, i think it's a perfectly policy and it was upheld by the supreme court, a there, butler alert what was called the muslim ban. we are not required to take from every country on earth. after the charlie hebdo, the massacre in paris, after san bernardino, after the pulse club, i really -- i'm hard-pressed to find a problem with trump's speech saying we take a pause in countries where terrorists that are on the state department terrorist watch list from muslim we as he saidl can figure out what the hell is going on. eminentlyt seems reasonable to me and instantly,

i mean, for a week, all i saw on he's hitler, he's hitler, he's hitler. it, new yorkct times for the first time ever published a grove city college edter, explaining on the op page, it was called the travel unconstitutional, you can't do this, yeah upheld by court.reme same thing with his wall funding. heean, over and over again, takes reasonable steps. the fact that he has hell and a very limited vocabulary really isn't a problem compared to republican republican after republican lying to the voters, getting us to vote for them, and betraying us. how do you have a democracy? it, feeling sorry

for the british. what on earth is going on? for brexit2 years ago. i'm telling you, we've been doing this for 40 years and fed up andpeople got voted for trump and it is -- it he's watching, you're doing a terrible job, mr. president, you've got to thoseto the metal on promises, but if he weren't cryld trump, if his rally had not been at every single rally build the wall, if he were jeb, if he were president rubio, which, of course, could never happen, and had done the exact things, i would think i had died and gone to heaven. theompared tee any of others, he's done stuff, but he hasn't done the stuff he has the dostitutional authority to and he could do. [applause] muslim ban meant in real life was that if an citizens, whoy, were muslim, wanted to have

mother-in-law visit them to weeks with the grandchildren, she couldn't do that. that if yout was were a company and you had an one ofve who came from the countries -- the plan originally was that it would of muslim faith from any country, and then a certain number of countries. if you had an executive or a skilled person that you wanted to rotate them in for a while, you couldn't do it. did was you attacked on the basis of a religious test, commonalities that people had. of -- manyve people people were not especially political, to take a position on something that it never occurred to them their government could ever do. and one of the features of the trump years has been it's launched the kind of mobilization of americans against americans in a way that before.never seen and here's a data point that drives that home. so 2010 was a big republican republicans won the house of representatives and one of

the biggest flips in recent congressional history. total number of votes cast. look at the total number of cast in 2010 for republican candidates and look at the total number of votes in 2018. republicans actually won more in 2018r the house than than they won in 2010. morerats won 9 million votes than that. you have -- and what is going to happen in 2020 is you're going an unprecedented republican mobilization, but an even bigger and unprecedented mobilization, everyone is being pulled into mutualitical system by antipathy and when that happens, nothing gets done. no --slim ban, there's there was never any case for it. it was always a wicked and foolish thing to do, but it was also a deeply unwise thing to do is to movethe goal to a system where we take more peoplewith skills, fewer without, we have better enforcement to make sure that

people that are in the country here, and weto be get a grip on total numbers and we stop treating the asylum system as a secondary immigration system, if that's the goal, you need a national as you wouldind it need a national consensus for anything big and when you're dividing people and alienating thele and saying, you know, head of cardiac surgery at this hospital is a lesser american than anybody else, hew do you get anything done? who wants to live in such a country? >> as you respond to that, we've been talking about the travel ban. reminds me that trump has been doing a lot of his immigration policy through executive actions. curious how you feel about that and how that squares with i think more traditional conservative philosophy that seeks to rein in the executive branch. >> i'm glad you mention that because that is actually a falsity. upetimes, people get gined on particular one thing that was

wrong. another one that's similar to it. nothing the matter with an executive order if it's within the executive's authority.nal similarly the left used to claim that what conservatives object to about supreme court rulings they overruled a congressionally passed law, they can't do that. care who passed it. the question is, is it constitutional or not? similarly with the executive order. we don't care about that there's an executive order and one of the things i wrote about this we trust that was -- his campaign was just -- manys magnificent in so ways and one of the ways was 99% washe things trump promising he didn't need congress for. authority within the of the executive, and it's been done over and over again and i don't think there's anything wicked about the muslim ban. i know a lot of muslims who are very happy to hear it. fled these countries

because of the terrorism. they wanted to live in a country wasn't going to have pulse night clubs, they would have people look at them less suspiciously if we cut down on bernardinos and so on and so forth. you can work out getting the in.ors but we've done it over and over again. i mean, we've discriminated on the basis of nationality, on race, on religion, not only is it the job of the executive, extension, as an the supreme court has found over and over and over again of policy, which is the province of the executive, but, you know, just to be extra sure, wrote a law saying the president may, in the interests the united states, exclude category of people. for about 30 years there was a discrimination on immigration in favor of jews from russia. had national discrimination in favor of vietnamese. and so on and so forth. and after, you know, terrorist

attack after terrorist attack, striking. of i mean, maybe i'll be proven wrong this next week, but we haven't had any more san bernardinos and one other thing and i can't attack david for we agree on i know this, but what you often hear an argumentt is like yours that, of course, i'm sympathetic -- we're all to -- yes, we want the muslims who are the cancer researchers. whenever we're arguing about immigration, suddenly we hear about the cancer researchers, and then you look at the numbers and it's not 90%, you know, landscapers and push cart operators. exactly what you say yes, it's not just numbers. we're the new england patriots. we want to be going around getting the best high school players, not just oh, yeah, we had to take him, but i blind and weighs 99 pounds, but it's tom brady's cousin, we've got to take him. immigration policy. yes, move it to we're taking

nobodyresearchers and cares muslim, non-muslim, vietnamese, country, this that thing, but by the way when trump has tried to do that, when he has tried to say people to come to our country who immediately need assistance. what kind of country would do that? how about you don't come here governmenttely need assistance? that seems like a good cut-off. trump has pushed it just in the or two.k and once again i'm hearing hitlerianism. >> in the first six months of 2019, the number of people crossing the southern border reached 100,000 a month. and they arrived and they made asylum claim. and those asylum claims were clearly unfounded, but nonetheless, there was a system

of law and treaty that governs asylum seekers are treated to make it very difficult for the united states to do anything about that. want to do something about that problem, you're going to need change too change the and change some treaties. an issue that now impinges -- immigrant and their children are something like now the country. immigration ath, very high levels has its most mostt economic harm on the recent immigrants, people also vote their values. immigrants too just like else and no one will support you if they're being insulted. of arriving at an immigration reform is going to be done in the context of doing things, too. if you think of immigration a context oft of constantly seeking the best human capital for the united states, not only from around the world, but here at home,

immigration is related to the reasons why we have things like early childhood nutrition programs. it's related to why we need to the beginningving of education from first grade and kindergarten earlier and that people, americans, whether their parents are born here, their parents are immigrants, have the first chance and it is connected to reknitting these bonds of solidarity that are expressed through anxieties about their health insurance. you're goingthat to need public leadership that can work with others and can speak to the whole country, arrived herese who yesterday. when donald trump says something about -- tells a naturalized citizen to go back where you came from, i'm a naturalized citizen, i know he doesn't mean naturalized citizens who look like me. he means naturalized citizens who look like something else. no one, no one will stand with you if they feel devalued and disrespected and the essence

of donald trump's appeal is his project disrespect. that's what he does. that's why unfortunately, some people like him, but that's why more don't and that's why his administration is going accomplishmentf and when it's all over and it's going to be over i think pretty pretty dramatic way -- [applause] when it's all over, all those executive orders are going to be blown away like so much dust because the next president can change them. enduring change comes from the work of building political coalitions and donald trump can't do that work and the aregs he does care about not going to last, the things he cared about less are not going to last. all that's going to last is the harm, the attack on american alliances and the mutual anger among american citizens. it's going to be a tougher country to govern in the 2020s because of him. >> a few points on that. wall of all, that's why a is a great idea.

it's forever, it's not an executive order. it works, they work all over the world, it works in china, it in israel, yes, there are airplanes, but it's a lot easier to stop people and ask for their papers. i mean, it takes two hours if you're an american citizen jfk to get through customs as opposed to having a wide open border, but that's of what has annoyed me about trump acting like, you tied withhands are the asylum laws that do need to changed. no, of course, nobody wants these families dragging poor little kids dying in the desert, being raped in the desert, being killed, no, we don't want that. want oury we don't country to be a magnet. that's why. want to give them free public benefits. want to have don't a wide open border. a wall and they're not going to journey. that's among the fantastic reasons for a wall. as for bringing the country and his language and the importance of it, i don't

disagree with the importance of it, but i just i'm always that new yorker cartoon with the greek looking hoping forying i was a taller honest man. isn't everything. but after betrayal, betrayal, some coarsell take language. point three, i think you are muslimsat hispanics and in this country are put off by this. i think white social justice warriors and college students are put off by it. is -- example of that because oh, my gosh they were the mexicanbout rapist speech. i often spend christmas in palm beach, i'm going around to is 2017s parties, this after the mexican rapist speech, language kinds of wild used by trump, and people had warned me about this, i saw this going to christmas parties in beach, someone whose name

you all know i'll tell you around,ds was walking they were all shell shocked in palm beach, but one in particular, he just kept going at parties saying i don't understand. jeb.re all for but the hispanic help is all for trump. reason -- part of that reason and why i grimaced when i said hispanic, i think hispanic an invented category used by ethnic grievance groups and political consultants. one of my friends asked a dominican he worked with as surge acrossthis the border, do you feel a particular affinity with mexicans? said to him, he's a german jew. no. do you? hispanics don't think of themselves as hispanic. they they think of themselves as rican,, puerto ecuadorian. sos an imaginary category this idea that all hispanics are upset, that people are entering the country illegally on the border, underselling their jobs,

the ones thate are taking a hit from all of this. lazydon't want their brother-in-law sleeping on the couch. no, hispanics -- trump got the hispanic of vote than either mccain and bush so i don't worry that much as forhe language and dividing the country, yes, it's divided, but again, i say, i put the left.on i've never seen anything like this. >> so the reason the republicans lost the house in 2018 was not because of the left. the republicans lost districts 7, which was represented by george h.w. bush in 1966. democrat tot from republican. it stayed republican through iran contra,hrough through the iraq war and went democrat in 2018. lost districts like newt

former district, he turned it from democrat to republican in the middle-1970s republican that whole time and went in 2018. mostcantor's district, the affluent part reaching up towards the district of beenbia, that has republican forever and ever. the district south of the potomac river, one of the richest districts in america, it's been republican for 60 of past 66 years. and it went democrat in 2018. thefour cases by the way, winner was a woman. what you are seeing -- what you are seeing is a turn away from the republican party in the places -- the historic heartlands of the republican led by womenurn representatives in congress and it's not just social justice warriors. was president of a federal society chapter. i knocked on doors for ronald in 1980. i'm offended by it.

it wounds me and i agree with ann of course, ann is right that hispanic is a category that's invented in america to describe from manying different countries, but, you know, how you create an identity that is by abusing people, that people -- all identities artificial. all of them -- and many of them arise in response to hostility. felt more american during war time, during the cold war then they feel now because felt under threat. if you don't want to subdivide your country between these different ethnic and cultural identities, treat people equally, treat them all with and that is something that donald trump can't do. model.t his business it's not his political model. he is going to leave behind a broken republican party, and a long timeo take to recover. he's going to leave behind a stronger american left because you tell people, if you object to abusing your fellow citizens then you're a social justice warrior, well, i didn't

think so, but if you tell me that i suppose i am. >> but the whole point is these are people -- excuse me, who citizens. fellow they're the foreigners coming in. reason is a lot of their fellow countrymen who got in with trump did, are on this is they left those countries. they wanted to live in america. need time to assimilate people. -- and one talking other thing i wanted to mention because i will admit that the did one thing that was kind of dopey. tweet i think is fully completely defensible and was talking he and -- i wasmar thinking of the indian woman from the pacific northwest, i and who's thee, other one? there are three who are actually

immigrants, they are pedal to pushing socialism and trump's tweet did not identify anyone. was kind- i thought it of a funny tweet, actually. have fledople who dysfunctional, corrupt countries country, i this guess -- i don't know if he called them the squad, and start bossing us around and telling us how to run our country. hey, why don't you go back and fix your country, and once you've done it, you can come here and tell us how you did it. was stupide did that because the tweet itself didn't right, the media started throwing in that is,esentative pressley who of course, an african-american and a citizen. her, but mention instead of defending the defensible he just sort of went along with the media's of whom he wasn referring to. i think if you are referring to frome who are coming in other countries and really

arguing for a dramatic change in we run things, i think it's a perfectly good point to say you fled a corrupt regime, family was part of that corrupt regime, you got out one step ahead of the executioner so please don't come and tell us we have to adopt all the policies your country. i just think it's rude. let me put two that way. wouldn't go to someon someone s country thinking i should be on tv bossing them around and i'm a pretty successful country. i just think it's rude. >> i feel a little less comfortable pointing to the dysfunction and corruption of other countries when the issident of this country making millions of dollars in undisclosed foreign payments. every year. into kazakhstan at a pretty impressive rate of disturbing.t's >> i have no idea what you're talking about.

[applause] >> how much money -- there's a tower inasen boule. how much money is the trump family and the trump inanization receiving payments from that trump tower in istanbul? it zero, $1 million, $10 million? what percentage of their income comes from those towers? no one knows the answers. maybe it's nothing. maybe it's important, we don't know. meanwhile, the president is -- now isisions put his hotel in washington on the market for $500 million, much more than worth. thinks it's why is it -- why does he even have such a hotel? those are the kinds of things disturbing about our country but let me take on point that i think is -- we talk about immigration amnesty and what we are going to

do. there's something like 12 people illegally present in the united states. maybe more. there right, we don't know exact number, but the usual guess is about 12 million, it be less.re, it may apparently about half of that population has been here for than 10 years so it's very unlikely that they're ever returning home. the peak period for illegal entry into the united states was the 1990s so those people here are more than 10 years are their 40s and very soon blink of an eye they'll be 60s.eir middle what happens to them then? they're going to be in this country, they're going to be be in they're going to need of healthcare. what do we do about them? settling -- long settled people and making sure that they have some kind of is alsorovision, that going to be part of finding our workablestable and immigration solution. and so we are -- everyone is going to be doing things, if you ever do arrive at a solution, that they may have found kind of

surenkable, like making that long settled illegal immigrants, even though they are illegal some day enter the medicare system because otherwise, they will be in this country in cared for in their old age. are going to do things like that, the people who advocate for that population are going to have to make some concessions. this cannot continue. ofmust see that the flow illegal immigration is stopped. we must see that the asylum backm is not used as a door to illegal entry, but we are going to have to do this together and we're going to have to build a civic spirit. and donald trump's behavior makes all of that impossible. be -- and going to any of the people in this room are people who are sympathetic to the president, i just ask you, when you think about the things you believe in, do you think you're going to be in a stronger position in 2022 than are today? and i would put this question to ann. you have often written how betrayed you have personally trump. president you have been very fierce about

him. ever trusts donald trump thinks i'm the one he's not going to break faith with. faith withks everybody, creditors, contractors, wives, everybody, he's going to break faith with you. >> i think that's an exaggeration. for one thing this million trumps because he owns hotels around, i think that's a crazy. i mean, it can be -- there are examples, like barack obama's neighbor in chicago seems to a property that was very, very inexpensive and obama.ed benefits from you had who was it speaker wright who actually had a huge violation, he would take money under the table is show up to give a speech, but the beuirement was you can't paid for the speech if you're a member of congress, but they can buy your book. buyhey would be required to 1,000 of his book. and they said no i'm sorry this graft. if you can approve there is

graft, everybody knew that trump ofed these hotels, it's sort unusual having a businessman go in there. i don't think you can just say owns hotels and he's the president now well therefore that's proof of corruption and that's what i mean about people finding him so icky, they're this mustick to say be corrupt because it involves trump. i don't think he's dividing the as you say.uch i think liberals are dividing the country because they've gone crazy. but there's not -- there's not another republican -- i can't of another candidate that gets rallies like trump does and trumpsters together, willing to take vicious attacks antifa, willing to stand online for hours and hours. boy, a lot of us are really the policiesse are we want. in terms of what this is going things onto, two being one betrayed and then the turn into.this will i was much more pessimistic

before trump, even trump not theing his promises because most basic norm, you know, we're always hearing about the norms a norm is ing, democracy you present a slate of issues, this is the stuff i'm do, this is what my opponent is going to do, the vote. and like i say, for half a century, we've been voting and give it to us. us. betray us, they betray the first george bush also betrayed us on no new taxes. bush somethingge david and i go back to a few issues where we were the lone and onen the wilderness was the first two out there opposing harriet meyers. insane. we got suitor and harriet users, trump has given excellent judges, excellent justices.

he totally kept his promise on that. so in terms of what kind of country it is, i think it's much politiciansus when just say screw you over and over and over again. part of the reason so many out to vote for seemed crazy he enough that he might actually keep his promises. has kept some of them, not the centralune, i think a much bigger issue of betrayal. feel he has kept faith with you? >> the good news is -- [laughs] on that, no. if you follow me on twitter, you know i've been a little testy with the president. and i've been saying, you know, giving speeches over the past sorry ifso, look i'm you all support trump, but we've got 13 months to get him to keep his promises because either he loses and we don't have a second

term, or he wins and he's not reelection again so he doesn't have to keep his promises, and then it will be nothing, but pushing trump hotels. and then i realized with this impeachment thing, they're never going to stop trying to remove trump from office. ever going to, stop. the entire left and the entire media's position is get this monster out of my sight. and it doesn't matter, they will aab on to any attack in storm. they're never going to stop so i to my delightlly that they're never going to get stop. if he wins a second term, he's to worry about impeachment and removal so we'll still have a canal tool force promises, but if you or jared are watching, build 400 miles of the wall before next november. have a couple more minutes left, but i want to get your quick on looking ahead to 2020. how much do you think trump and how much do you think the democrats will run on

issue?tion as a top >> i think it is going to become an issue that is very central. very leftats will go on it. the barack obama of 2008 would completely unnominatable in the democratic party of today. and, of course, trump will -- i think trump actually will be more cautious of the immigration democrats because at this point, it does cut against him, but it's going to be central and that's going to harder to solve because ann's model of how politics maybe describes a parliamentary democracy like britain, canada or australia. the two parties offer their platforms, one wins, it implements it. that is not how two works in the united states. there isn't a government, there an opposition. candidates run on proposals, and understands that the real bargaining happens after the election. that's the affordable care act that barack obama passed in 2010 doesn't look a lot like what he theaigned on in 2008 and same will be true for the democrats with their healthcare

plans. to make those kinds of need toions work, you build a consensus and you need above all a president who can go television, speak to the country and rally it and donald trump has never even tried to do there's -- the one bit of self-knowledge that he the presidentot of the united states. he's the president of 45% of the united states. >> i don't think he thinks that. and no, i know there are david, but what i'm talking about with immigration toway more than oh, we had make a compromise. it is just outright betrayal. immigration and screw you, voters, the donors want their cheap labor. mcconnell, it was and they gave quotes at the time like i say before the 2014 election, they're all promising right and left, you want us to stop obama's unconstitutional amnesty, you've got to give us a majority in the senate. and by the way, voters were a on republicans. there was that tea party spirit

out there, there was still some party style candidates primarying incumbent republicans. saying nov republicans please don't vote for the tea party candidate now, we just need a majority. majority, thena you improve the republican who's already there. they win in a huge landslide that year, and then george will among others and mitch say well it'sy not fair because the media will if we quote shut down the government. oh, well, you didn't tell us you do it if it was hard, if you had only told us, unless opposes us, that isn't what they said when they were running. it's an outright betrayal. rubio promising he would never push amnesty in the senate because he had been very bad in legislature, which is why joyce coffman asked him it on his radio show. he gets to the u.s. senate, amnesty.l, that isn't we had to compromise.

that is an outright betrayal and why? donors want the money. they want the cheap labor and they want to make more money and they don't care about this don't care at all. one thing that sort of surprised me, i never realized how much i the republican party until trump came along. party.icial republican i hope it is remade more in trump's image of running on popular issues, being able to issues this basket of and not oh, we're going to throw out popular things and then in.ay you once you're i hope we do get that with trump. that would be a nice change, but far, republicans seem very, learners. the 1986 amnesty, when i was wasing adios, america, i wondering because we've done this before. i mean, it's not like -- well, i will happen if we pass amnesty. illegalse 3 million then, in 10 years there were 11

million. what happened to the employer sanctions? a trade-off. we're going to amnesty the 3 million here, but we're going to the border and there will be brutal employer sanctions if you hire an illegal alien. they're hard workers, i bear will.o ill i want to raise the wages of my fellow americans so what that?ed to it was republicans who stopped donors wantedir the cheap labor. it was my own party that stopped sanctions.r the democrats want more and more of the third world coming here for the votes and the it for the want cheap labor. we have been betrayed so many times. trump, if he does keep his promises on immigration, and he left,t have much time he'll deserve to be on mt. rushmore. up,e've got to wrap it but -- i can give you a very quick response. >> i'll say, ann has been a much the central person in republican world than i have

been. i've been on the outs for a while on many issues but one of that donald trump has taught me is actually the republican party is precious to about it. and he's breaking it. as he's breaking so many other things i care about. break -- ifng to you care about the immigration issue, he's going to break that, too. faith withr kept anyone in his life. he will not keep faith with you. i appreciatesay the chance to have a civil conversation about immigration, viest into the contrasting but also a couple of areas where you agree, as well. let's give a big round of to ann and david. thank you very much. >> thank you. [applause]

[background conversations]

[background conversations] for our nextait discussion to get under way here's a look at the rest of the day of the live coverage at politicon. at 4:00 p.m. eastern a conversation on leadership with director james comey and former white house

communications director nicole wallace. at 6:00 p.m., a point counterpoint discussion with and sean hannity. and at 8:40 p.m. eastern, al theken makes his return to national scene and this is live c-span for the day. [background conversations] >> philip reeker, a senior state isartment official testifying before house impeachment investigators today. arrived at the capitol this morning with his personal lawyer. reeker heads a team of diplomats european affairs and is the latest trump

administration official to testify behind closed doors. the president tweeted this morning quote, the ukraine just as corrupt and fake as all the other it.age that went before thehere's a look at some of other house members entering the capitol earlier today to hear testimony.er's we'll be keeping an eye on this story for you throughout the day if we'll keep you updated lawmakers respond to mr. reeker's testimony.