where there was only despair. for 28 years, the wall has been an integral part of berlin life, something that was just there. tonight, it symbolizes something else, the failure of an east german government to resist the wave of change over soviet bloc nations and the sound new freedom, the chipping away of the wall itself. wall back in the berlin gallery at the museum in washington, d.c. we welcome hope harrison, the author of the book "after the berlin wall, memories in the making of the new germany, 1989 to present." hope harrison, on the first page, you note the history and meaning of the berlin wall remains controversial today in germany. why is that? guest: the big lessons of the wall, what it really was, some of the former leaders were still around and were vocal,

one emphasized it was a piece border, doing what they needed to do, what any sovereign state could do. people who were family members of people who were killed at the wall have a very different view on the legitimacy of the wall and see it as a terrible, violent thing. what are your thoughts on how germany is marking the anniversary today? is this a day of celebration in germany, a day of remembrance, what is your view, looking at what happened so far this weekend what's happening today. guest: they've been busy all week with the climax today and i think they do multiple things. they always come on the anniversary of the fall of the wall, commemorate the people who lost their lives for whom the wall fell too late. they celebrate the glorious moment of the peaceful fall to the wall, and many germans feel proud of this.

and thee holocaust heavy weight of history on germany's shoulders, to feel there is something in their contemporary history they can be proud of, this peaceful fall of the wall and these who took to the street, calling for change, including taking down the wall, but they also realized 30 years after the fall of the wall, some people in the east are frustrated that although there have been major strides made between east and west, there is fewer differences, especially economics, and that gap has not been completely closed yet. host: are there people today in germany that want to forget the berlin wall? guest: i think there are always people that want to forget some difficult part of the past. certainly some of the people who suffered and maybe have post-traumatic stress disorder because of it, it is easier to

forget, but many germans feel it is so important to remember and teach young generations what it was like 20 dears when that wall stood. and certainly, in this day and age, when so many walls are going up around the world, and countries neighboring germany, many germans feel it is important to remember that time when the wall came down. host: for our last 25 minutes on the "washington journal" today, we are talking with hope harrison, the author of "after the berlin wall: memory and the making of the new germany, 1989 to the present." you can see the berlin wall gallery here at the newseum in washington, d.c. starting to fill in with the tour groups and others. we are taking a look at the largest impact piece of the wall outside of germany, here at the newseum. we are taking the calls on the phone calls.

if you are in eastern or central time zones, guest: for mountain or -- if your in eastern or central time zones, (202) 748-8000. (202) 748-8001 four mountain pacific. (202) 748-8002 for german-americans. caller: i was stationed in berlin from 1983 to 1989, and the things to remember is that the americans, in the 1950's, we had the berlin airlift to support the people in berlin. in the 1980's, we had president reagan telling us to tear down the wall, and in the 1980's hest died, died -- people were circumventing the wall going from east germany into checkless a blocky a and west germany -- checkless

lamacchia -- checkless love bockius -- it was a time for the wall to come down and have freedom for these berliners. and all of the warsaw pact countries. i also forgot to remember to and -- forgot to mention on december 21, when they were invading panama, we were all having the berlin wall torn down both between the right stock and brandenburg gate. it was the best time in the world. host: hope harrison here to talk about the things to remember about the berlin wall. guest: let me just say it is theerful to be here with only east german guard tower outside of germany. i hope very much they will find a place to keep these, because they are such important historic

artifacts. speaking of memory of the fall of the wall, i myself was on a plane, headed to berlin on the night of november 9 when the wall fell as i was on the commuter flight to west berlin, the pilots got on the intercom and said, ladies and gentlemen, in case you haven't heard, the berlin wall fell last night, and we are flying into history. i couldn't believe my luck. i was there on the ground in berlin for 10 amazing days. i got my own pieces of the wall, i watched the incredibly moving scenes of west germans welcoming these east germans, coming into west berlin -- host: our viewers are seeing the picture standing in front of the wall. explain where you were. guest: that picture is right in front of the brandenburg gate. this was two days after the wall had opened. they had put, as you can see, the east german border soldiers

back on top of the wall, trying to keep a bit of order, hoping nobody, with all the partying they didn't want anybody to fall off and have any injury, so it was an amazing time to be there. something i will never forget, that's for sure. host: what's the history of how germany has remembered the berlin wall, about the larger story of reunification in germany. guest: at the beginning, people didn't want to remember it. they wanted to move on and tear it down. then, they realized they needed to commemorate the victims, and they put money into researching exactly who was killed trying to escape. i write about one of those who, ona 20-year-old december 1, 1980 four, was killed while trying to cross. it was to walls, armed guards in between, and many other border obstacles in between the external and internal wall.

ago, the wayears germans focused on the memory of the wall changed. for the first time, they focused on the positive history of the fall of the wall and courageous east germans took to the streets , calling for change and brought that down. anniversary,0th while there are many people celebrating, there are also some but a loud minority, minority expressing their frustration that they have not still achieved western levels economically or in terms of the respect sometimes that they feel they are shown as being from the east. host: with just about 20 minutes left on the "washington journal" today, on c-span and on c-span3 on american history tv, taking your phone calls. this is jean out of detroit, michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to say that i was 46

or whatever at the time of the fall of the wall, and i was happy for the people, but i also felt apprehension at the reunification because of germany having been involved in world i'm sorry, world war i and world war ii. i think that it made me realize even more, since then, the importance of nato in preventing a third world war. i hope our current president realizes the history. thank you. host: thank for the call. hope harrison. guest: yes. when the wall fell, many germans were happy, but the brits, french, soviets, polish, and many others were worried. mentioned,t caller we particularly remember nazi germany. and, wondering what is going to

happen now. will it be the nationalism, aggression, and aggressive country, and it was only president george h w bush in the u.s. who wasn't afraid. that's partly because we lost fewer than the other countries did in world war ii and were separated by the atlantic ocean from germany, but president bush felt confident the democratic west germany that was our allies throughout the cold war, was mature enough, strong enough to absorb east germany and become the same kind of democratic peaceful, multilateral nation that west germany had been. but, it was very important to bush that this new united germany stay in nato. he lobbied strongly for that, and ultimately, together with chancellor cole, persuaded

gorbachev, who really had to sign on the dotted line, giving up his trophy from world war ii in east germany, and ultimately in the summer of 1990, gorbachev on october 3, 19 90, germany united and had the right to decide -- 1990, germany united and had the right to decide what alliance it wanted to be a part of. nato is the answer. host: one of our callers brought up november 9 is not just significant for the history of the berlin wall falling but also significant in the history of the holocaust as well. guest: exactly. november 9, 1938 was the night terrible glass, a night when the nazis attacked jews in their homes, businesses, synagogues, and the fact that that november 9 also occurred is the reason the german unification day is not november

9. the emotional day for everyone, having to do with unification, is november 9, the fall of the wall, but they couldn't do it on november 9 because of what had happened in 1938. so, they picked october 3. host: out of michigan, this is jean, good morning. caller: i was just on. host: sorry about that. this is john in princeton, west virginia. good morning. caller: i was wanting to comment. i was 12 years old when this happened, and i didn't know a whole lot of what was going on, but we had a neighbor that had came over during world war ii, and had married the man that lived next to us. when the wall fell, shortly after, her niece came over from the east, and i was so amazed at how she was in all of everything -- in awe of everything.

we always joked we were 20 years behind the rest of the country, ourselves. awe of thes in television shows and being able to go from state to state without papers or permission. i had no idea they had to do that. humble, and ao very intelligent girl, but she was just in awe and so grateful of being over here. it gives all of us a new appreciation for being an american. it was a humbling experience for us, too. just being 12 years old, it gave a whole new perspective on the world. it kind of opened it up for us too. host: john, things for the call. hope harrison. guest: we who grew up in a democratic system often take it for granted. newtimes, we can see a

through the eyes of people who had not had the privilege and good fortune of growing up in such a system. the former president of germany, someone who came from the east, always speaks of the tears in his eyes when he first got to participate in free elections. the first and last east german free election in march of 1990, where there voted -- they voted for rapid unification. he voted with tears in his eyes. people in many democratic countries don't go out and vote, and exercise the rights and privileges that we have as democratic citizens. caller comes out of los angeles, california. good morning. caller: good morning. this has been a very emotional event for me, because of my family history. my father had been a jew who was protected by a catholic priest and made it so the -- through

the nazi area, and he was a journalist and he took me to berlin and east germany one time, because he was made -- the americans made him mayor of a german city. it's an unbelievable story, but then the wall came down. it was such an emotional event for me, most life-changing event in my life. i remember going through the tv trying to find coverage anywhere and i came across c-span. i was introduced to c-span because of the berlin wall coming down, and it was brian lamb sitting in east berlin, and front of like a restaurant. it had a table there, and a chair, and he sat outside of the restaurant and talked to people, two east berliners that were walking by -- to east berliners that were walking by. it was the most unbelievable

view to have and sitting in east berlin talking to the east germans about their reaction. i was wondering if you could ever show that again. host: the nice thing is that it is available anytime you want to watch it at our website at c-span.org. if you type in the search bar at the type of the day, brian lamb, and search by the date, november of 1989, you will be able to find it. thanks for bringing it up and watching c-span for so long. this is john out of rockford, illinois. you are next. go ahead. caller: good morning. i was stationed in the army in , and i'm sure a lot of people don't realize that we had small firefights when we were there. one of the guys in my company was injured. we also used to travel up and down the autobahn in convoy to keep the autobahn open.

can you hear me? host: did you want to add to your thoughts? caller: beg pardon? host: did you have anything more you wanted to add? --ler: well i also told standard guard duty at a prison. that's about all i had to offer. host: thanks for those memories. hope harrison on the memories of the soldiers who served in berlin, the american soldiers, and the british soldiers, the french as well. you wrote about them in your book -- did you write about them in your book? guest: i read about them in their parts of helping take down the wall. in some cases, the german government asked the allied powers for their help in removing segments of the wall, and some of those were also allowed to take segments back home to london, to paris, to washington, but there are so

many american soldiers that have served in germany throughout the cold war. and in berlin. that was a strong connection. unification, when it was decided the troops would leave, and particularly the soviet troops would leave, while most germans, particularly in the east, were happy about the soviet troops leaving, there were others much more -- there was much more in most know -- emotional involvement with having the americans leave. people that felt so indebted to them for defending freedom, and this has been an important basis of the u.s.-german ties for large number of american soldiers who had served there time, and exposed so many americans to the beauty of germany and how interesting it is. i'm sure many people watching had that experience. my own father was based from

1950 to 1954 in germany as one of them. host: about 10 minutes left in the program this morning. live from the newseum, you can see the berlin wall gallery at the newseum coming alive. more and more visitors coming on this day, the 30th anniversary of the fall of the berlin wall. here to see the unaltered portions of the berlin wall, the largest displayed unaltered portions of the relay wall -- berlin wall. it is here at the newseum. we are taking your phone calls regionally. mark is next out of shelbyville, indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. i lived in berlin from's 1979 to 1985. i was a bartender not far from where you are now. i loved that city. a tragedy inen for my family, i would never have

left. when i visit, it's hard to leave. to me, there are a lot of things to talk about, but what i remember, besides being upset i wasn't there, was the substance of it. the people that had lived there, i never thought i would have saw the wall fall in my lifetime, and is kind of the way history turns. i'm sure there were things leading up to it, but the actual event itself was sudden and a little shocking to me. host: mark, think for the call. hope harrison. guest: the actual event was not supposed to happen. it was a mistake by a senior east german official who didn't read his notes carefully. suddenly, he announced the wall was open, which it wasn't supposed to be. then, the border soldiers, at the crossing points, had to decide, and it was harold yeager who made the decision at about

11:30 that night, facing thousands of people, saying didn't you see the news? it's supposed to be open. he finally opened it. point, border crossing angela merkel herself, the current german chancellor, was one of the 20,000 east germans who crossed over from east to west on that very night. a historian, and i also talk to my students about the role of chance. there were many things pushing in this direction's poland had thrown -- direction. poland had thrown up the but this oneime, official said the wrong thing and the double chance that harold yeager, the official at the border decided to open it. host: i wonder what you think of the headlines in the wall street

journal today. there are special segments of the fall of the berlin wall. the headline, "history made by ordinary people." talking about the german official and border guard. guest: absolutely. the official was not an ordinary person except in the sense that he made a mistake. nothowed his humanness and being prepared, but absolutely, the role of individual people, this is what the germans talk about the most in terms of the lessons of the fall of the wall. they say it was the role of so many brave, individual german citizens who took to the streets, demanding change. tried to use that history as an inspiration and model for all of us now to remember that we can't take democracy and freedom for granted. we, each of us, must be civic lien engaged to stand -- civic lee engaged to stand up for cally engagedvi

for freedom and democracy. i interviewed over 100 germans for my book. persona on gada and --mistakenly opened the wall when he mistakenly opened the wall. he was loved by the west. all the western reporters always wanted to talk to him so he was in a strange position having come up through the communist system. suddenly, he was hanging out with the west a lot more. he was put on trial, along with , shootingleaders people at the wall. he was the most contrived of any of the german officials for that. he said on trial how wrong it was and that he was ashamed for the role he played.

host: time for a couple more calls on the "washington journal" on american history tv today. this is maria out of kentucky. good morning. caller: yes. i was sitting here and thinking how i would describe my feeling to you, but it's just impossible. absolutely impossible. year, [indiscernible]from october to november, i get the same feeling. i used to work at the hospital, and one of the doctors had a picture on his wall, the famous picture where the soldier stowed his gun away and jumped over to west germany. i had to go in his home every day, and it never got old.

i said a little prayer every day. that november -- and that november, my friends sister from east germany, was here to visit. money, would have the they would have been to germany the same day. being from east germany, he didn't have the money, but i wanted to just say that the feeling is so overwhelming, [indiscernible]. that's all i wanted to say. host: maria, think for the call. hope harrison on that and the soldier she referred to. his name was hans conrad shuman. , a soldier that was 19 at the time when he jumped over the barbed wire to get from east berlin to west. this was before the concrete wall. guest: exactly. this was shortly after they

sealed the border. the location was now -- is now the home of the berlin memorial which is seven blocks long along the former death strip. it has an outdoor and indoor exhibit telling people the history of the wall in general, and at that site in particular. on one of the buildings is the huge photograph of conrad gunmann throwing off his above the barbed wire. that was an inspiration to so many others that even someone who is supposed to be defending this said forget it. i want out. host: time for maybe one or two more calls. this is richard in massachusetts. thanks for waiting. caller: good morning. it is aessor who is on, pleasure listening to her, and

c-span. i'm going to make a few comments and i would like her to interpret what i'm going to say and re-clarify it if she would like. host: sure. we just have about a minute and a half, so go ahead. caller: it was the russians who lost 20 million people in that war. it was the germans who came into russia and committed those atrocities. during the war. there had to have been a lot of bitterness and hatred toward the nation, especial the unification of germany. when allies came in and split the country up and you had france in the united states on one half, and the russians who did all the dirty work. according to them, we would have never won the war anyway. now, they had to do something, so they put the wall up. this conversation i'm hearing is primarily the significance of that wall and what it represented, but if you look at the totality of the

totality of the actions of the german nation -- i had a history professor, and he said as a nation you could never trust them. i agree with that. east german leaders had and theo close the wall soviets resisted for eight years . they finally gave in to the pleas of the east german leaders to seal up the border. over 1000 east germans were fleeing to the west every day. they built the wall that lasted miraculouslybut came down peacefully 30 years ago today. it is wonderful to be here to celebrate that with you all. the making of the new germany 1989 to the present.

we appreciate your time this morning. if you would like to learn more about the fall of the berlin wall starting right now on c-span three, a series of nbc news special reports that cover the breaking news that day. a spokesman for east berlin's communist party announced citizens were free to cross the border for the first time since the dawn of the cold war. that program begins now on american history tv on c-span3. for ouroing to do it program and we will be back tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. eastern. have a great saturday. ♪

>> watch the c-span networks live next week as they house intelligence committee holds the first public impeachment hearings. the committee will hear from three state department officials starting wednesday at 10 eastern on c-span three. and deputy assistant secretary of state george kent will testify. former u.s. ambassador to ukraine will appear before the committee. read witness testimony from the transcripts. >> coming up today, a house homeland security hearing in

mississippi to examine the impact of recent immigration across the state. a look at combating extremism and domestic terrorism. google senior vice president discusses the intersection between artificial intelligence and national security. up next, the homeland security hearing in mississippi. we are just about to start our hearing. natalie needs to make announcements.