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live, unfiltered coverage on c-span. listen on the radio app. we want to welcome back terry jeffrey. morning thank you for being with us. this from the editorial page this morning. the bipartisan spending party. congress has left town for the year. anotherbefore bipartisan spending party that has typified the trump residency. the numbers deserve noticed because they are likely to have long term impact. exceeding $1ebt trillion. guest: they are exactly right. on theartisan agreement hill is an old one.

it has been going on for decades. they are allowing the government to get out of control. you have the baby boom generation continuing to retire. increasing the amount of money spent on those programs. social security costs more than a trillion dollars last year. as the wall street journal points out, you have massive discretionary spending. both parties in congress are doing nothing to try to roll that back. this number courtesy of the debt clock. the nation's debt is $23 trillion. how much money is that? [laughter] don't just say a lot. the debt fiscal 2019, increased by $1.2 trillion.

the federal government just in that one year borrowed more than $9,000 for every household in the united states. cardne if you had a credit and they charged $9,000. i think they would be a little upset. in addition to all of the spending the government is paying for, last year they went out and spend more. host: in an interview we conducted with the president back in july, he said the reason he had to increase spending was to rebuild the military he said was decimated under the obama presidency. but he said he would deal with the debt and the deficit in a second term. people leave him -- do you believe him? guest: when president trump , socially ran

conservatives were not sure if we could trust him. he said he would put out a list of people he would name to the supreme court. if he intends to roll back federal spending and deal with he ought to put out a concrete plant that the nation can have a referendum on. let people vote next november based on that plan. matter? deficits dick cheney said that they don't. guest: you mentioned trump was worried about not having defense spending. you lick it with the federal government spends money on. the number one thing is the department of health and human services. the second thing is social security.

the third thing is the department of defense. thanyear it spend more $650 billion. we are spending a lot of money on defense. does the federal government have a great many things they can cut? without question. host: the question is, is the sustainable? this came up with jerome powell, the fed chair. you will also hear from ohio republican bill johnson. sustainable asne the debt is not growing faster than the economy. our debt is growing faster than the economy by a margin. by definition, that makes it unsustainable. can the debt continue to indefinitely grow? when are we unrecoverable? question toot a which there is an answer.

there's examples of countries that have higher levels. as the debt builds up, you will be spending more of their tax dollars to pay for interest on the borrowing we have done as opposed to the things they need, education, health care. host: what are you hearing? guest: he makes a good point. ther that $650 billion, next to being was $500 billion on interest on the debt. some of it goes back to the government. they have debt held by the havec, they also intergovernmental debt, money they have stolen out of the social security trust fund. and the treasury owes that money back. some of the interest is being

paid back on paper. cashthan $300 billion is interest on treasury securities. the average interest is 2.5%, which is low. ofking up a trillion dollars new debt every year, at some point the interest rates are going to go higher. people are going to be reluctant to buy our dead. the treasury department publishes the major foreign holders of u.s. debt. china was a major holder. they were buying more than anybody else. times they've been eclipsed by japan. japan has more of u.s. debt than the chinese. at the people's republic of china, halfway around the world, those guys over there in the capital, they

borrow money from the people's republic of china. six years ago it started to think, maybe there's other places that are better to invest. they are our second-biggest holder. they are down. that is a sign you will find more people reluctant to buy securities and we will have to raise the interest rate. message.d us a text he says why is the attention directed to spending and not to be tax cut for the rich? pieces, ifne of my you look at debt, the individual paide tax that americans in 2019 where the highest ever. $1.7 trillion in income tax. had americansars paid that much. corporation taxes are down.

although revenues were up, they are down from 2007. the total federal tax revenue was down even while individual revenues were up. it is not like the federal government is not taxing people. it is imposing a higher income tax than they ever have. they are spending more. increased 1.2 trillion dollars the same year the government was collecting more income tax. host: spending should be cut across the board. send us a tweet. ed, good morning. caller: good morning. perotian in my politics. pinocchios.

ross perot predicted the dead. ebt. cnn told lies about what he said. now you're telling lies about donald trump. yes, heant an example, did lower taxes. you failed to mention he took away most of rich people's write-offs. again, truth, facts, results. far beyond your concept. i voted for barack obama. i would want cnn to say why they aren't coming back. we don't know. i actually blocked cnn on my fios. truth, fact, results. to quote donald trump, you are

fired. host: thanks for the call. guest: it is true individuals are paying more income taxes. one reason might be the removal of some of the deductions in the tax cut bill president trump sign. another reason is you have more people working. at aloyment is recent historic low. 3.5%. people paying income taxes. the government is getting more tax. let's go to robert joining us next. independent line. good morning. hypothetical, why can't we have our budget led the basicallyass be transferred over to the irs to

adjust tax rates on a year-to-year basis to come to some kind of a balanced budget? i know it would be a bitter pill to swallow, that $9,000 per household. why not have it where -- politics, these politicians would have to get their house in order or they would be voted out if they don't figure out how to balance the budget. guest: the constitution gives the power to congress. particularly the house of representatives over this question. the americans people do not hold congress responsible for the excessive spending they do. some of the spending is targeted to please certain constituents. that deserves -- one reason you

where congresss passes these massive bills and three months into the fiscal year, they should have been 30.ed before september people can't read and study them and debate and see where the money is going. host: the issue of spending and democratic proposals came up in the final debate of 2019. this question to senator elizabeth warren. you.have a question for every candidate has proposed tax increases on the wealthy. you have a special ambitious aan that would hike taxes trillion dollars over the decade. the biggest tax increase since world war ii. whodo you answer economist say taxes of this magnitude would stifle growth? >> oh, they are wrong.

[applause] well tax.t with the the idea of a two cent tax on the great fortunes of this country, $50 million and above. what can we do? the rest oft in america. we can provide universal childcare, early childhood education for every baby in this country. universal prepay for every three-year-old and raise the wages of every childcare worker. we can do even more for public schools, college graduates. we can cancel student loan debt. think about the economic impact of that. eating more pizza. they are not buying more cars. we invested that 2% in early

childhood education and child care. that means those babies get top-notch care. it means their moms can finish their education. their moms and dads can take on real jobs, longer hours. we can increase productivity. and we can start building this economy from the ground up. that is how we built small towns and that is how we build in urban america. an economy that works. from the pbs newshour debate which is available on our website. i want to follow up on what paul deficitis saying, the is overrated. go ahead and deficit spend. it's an investment in the future. guest: it is theft from the future. when the government borrows a

trillion dollars a year, they are stealing the money from future generations who have to pay the interest. nobody is talking about paying off the debt. when americans buy a home, they want to pay off the mortgage. we have a government that continues to renew its mortgage on future generations. elizabeth warren once more taxes. a column i did in october, i looked at that, the bureau of labor statistics from the consumer expenditure survey. aboutut in detailed data what those calculate the average american consumer unit, basically a household. it could be an individual who keeps independent expenses. spends one household various items. it terms out that the average

american consumer unit, according to the government, spends more money on taxes than they do on food, clothing, and health care. when you look at the numbers, you could add in entertainment. the average american is paying more to the government in federal, state, and local taxes, $18,000 per year. more than food, clothing, and entertainment. listening, is the government giving me more than my food and clothing and entertainment? no. they are not. already we have the government that is disproportionately large and is overtaxing people. we deserve a country where people like elizabeth warren don't think they have the right to take additional money you make. host: american households pay in 2019.st aggregate

the largest drain of aggregate demand from the economy. i want to share with you from a look atgton post, the year-to-year debt, which came down during the obama administration and is increasing under the trump administration. $1 trillion this year alone. caller: good morning. i don't understand why c-span continues to have frauds like this gentleman come on your show. what they are saying is what mitch mcconnell wants to do. up,ay down the debt, listen trump zombies, they are going to go after social security, medicare, in order to pay for those tax cuts that trump gave to his billionaire buddies and to be corporations. this is what is coming down the road.

this is where they know where the money is. you better listen up, you chop supporters. they are coming after you. column, iyou read my blame mitch mcconnell for the spending. -- is a cold fact a $4.4 trillion government big enough? guest: we have an agreement to spend more money. mitch mcconnell is not controlling the spending. individual income taxes the government collected in 2019 were more than they ever collected. they still had a deficit of $900 billion. a republican thing or a democratic thing. it is the political establishment is not interested in controlling the deficit or rolling back the debt. host: you also quote rand paul

who did offer an amendment the said to reduce the amount of 2% less the amount appropriated for fiscal year 2019. that failed. guest: it had more republicans who voted against it and 24 who voted for it. what senator paul was trying to do was cut discretionary spending in one fiscal year by 2%. i did the analysis in this column. if you look at certain agencies, the department of education and the last 20 years, the beginning of the century, it has grown more than 100%. federal spending. the department of education is not social security or medicare. politicians are spending twice as much now as they were 20 years ago. , a bipartisan vote with

mitch mcconnell on the wrong side. have mark saying can you your guest answer how many loopholes were removed from the upper class taxes so they could get this tax cut? limit some ofere the deductions. that is partly responsible for why they paid more individual taxes. it is good for people at the lowest and of the income scale. i'm not sure it is good for people in the middle class. the american dream is to work hard and make more. to try to be more successful and make more money. why should the government inhibit that by penalizing people for making more money? we aree more money, going to take it away. then your kid is going to have to pay interest on the money we borrow.

we will go to baltimore next. good morning. caller: how are you today? i have a question in reference to mutual funds. the money market and the treasury government money market which a lot of americans hold, i hold those, we have a crisis in the repurchasing market. we are putting in $160 billion a day and have been for the past three months into these repurchasing agreements. what the federal government did was 1.75%.erest rate it rose to 10% in less than one week. and we haveame in onped on what you can earn those funds. they did that for the reason we

were discussing. on repurchasing agreement. we are right back where we were in the 2000 and crisis when banks got in over their head. why would we have mr. powell come in and cap those marketplaces? u.s. treasury money and u.s. fundsry gov, 30% of those are of repurchasing agreements. i feel that goes against everything when it comes to a legal contract through t. rowe .rice that: i have not followed mutual fund issue. in theopping $1 trillion first 11 months of the fiscal year. that is a first.

year, in this calendar like in this fiscal year, they have increased the debt by more than a trillion dollars. we are not seeing the future where this will be reversed. host: we will go to michael in california. caller: good morning. mr. jeffrey, you mentioned earlier how for many years the government was stealing from social security to pay other bills. i believe it was george w. bush who said one of his main goals was to invest that money into wall street to get a better return. we know what happened to be pension funds when they started to do that. is the government considering investing in wall street to get a better return on the money

they are stealing from social security? handing over money to wall street is a disaster waiting to happen. your thoughts. guest: president bush wanted social security reformed, i don't think he went far enough. there were other plans where the idea was to let people create individual retirement accounts where they put a certain intontage of their income mutual funds to build up their own fund that did not belong to the government. the idea behind that is that when the person retired, from their private investments, they were able to get at least the equivalent of a social security benefit. personally i thought that was a better plan. you would not be dependent on government.

people and their employers say this tax, they pay it all their life until they reach retirement age. then they are dependent on the .overnment it is not a good thing for people to be dependent on the government for their income. interestiting the deduction on mortgages and state and property taxes hit the upper middle-class and rich more than the media only calls the tax cut for the rich. guest: i'm a native of california. i grew up in california. in the san francisco bay area. life is expensive in that area. housing is expensive. the cost of living is expensive. there's areas of new jersey and new york city that are like that. here in d.c., it is expensive.

ifre are places where someone can afford a home, raise a family, they have to be in that income bracket that tax cut treats like the rich. host: alan greenspan, here's the inflation is going to rise, as the deficit balloons over trillion dollars. guest: yes. if you look at the structure of the debt, we talked about the government borrowing from security taxes, that part of the debt is going to diminish and be publicly traded. if you look at that structured, , lot of the marketable debt those mature within one year. it's not like it's in 30 year bonds where we have a set

interest rate. as the interest rate rises, the government is going to be rolling over these bills and notes paying a low interest rate and they will jack up. that is going to accelerate the cost of the debt. host: we will go to michigan. caller: hey, steve. wait to hear your republicans saying how biased you are by having somebody like terry on there. anyway. that said -- host: you must have been listening yesterday. caller: i was. i tried to get into defend you. you are my favorite next to, what is her name? i saw her. host: susan swain.

caller: she got boosted up. host: she does q&a. anyway, she was doing an interview on q&a. host: susan swain, that's correct. caller: i miss her. she was so good. you and her. i liked when she would moderate. i would like to put a plug in for stephanie miller on free-speech tv. your show was my favorite until i discovered stephanie miller. guy, i getting to this want to talk about tax cuts for the rich, and that guy in virginia, what was his name? host: go ahead with your question. caller: ok. tax cuts for the rich. them and money away to

they create these deficits, starting with reagan. and then they take it out of people like me on social security. they've already done it. they are raising the age, wanting to cut the benefits. abortion, you are so pro-life. why aren't these people shooting , you are solinics concerned, why aren't you at those cages freeing those children already born and are dying in modern-day many concentration camps? you, oh, the children. why aren't you manning those cages? i don't know how you can call yourself a christian. i'm an atheist, but if that is your definition of christianity, pal. one last thing. mr. trump, a great businessman.

look up his rating. the trumple of 1-100, 16.nization is you can look it up or have one of your republican viewers calling and see what they find. thank you so much. host: thank you for the call. keep watching c-span. a lot there to unpack. they are not messing with social security. the editorial, they mentioned this new deal for border security, if you really want a moral -- a legitimate expenditure of money and a moral policy for the border, you would secure the border to act as a deterrent so people would not try to illegally enter the

united states. they would not move across mexico and try to cross the border. if i tried to sneak in the united states, i'm not going to make it. i'm going to stay home and illegally apply. that would be the best policy. this congress, why don't you spend the money to secure our own border? jeffrey, senior advisor to pat buchanan and a writer for the washington times, now a columnist and editor-in-chief. thank you for stopping by. happy holidays. come back again. >> washington journal mugs are available on our new online story. go to c-span.org and check out the washington journal mugs and see all of the products. the white house did not release a weekly adjust from the