coming up, briefings with state governors on the coronavirus response, including new york governor andrew cuomo at 11:30 eastern time. in california governor gavin newsom, live at 3:00. later, georgia governor brian kemp expected to talk about plans to reopen his state's economy live at 4:00 eastern. you can also watch online at c-span.org or listen with the free c-span radio app. leaves thet trump lighthouse coronavirus task force briefing this afternoon, scheduled to start at 5:00 eastern. you can watch it live on c-span them online at c-span.org, or listen with the free c-span radio app. morning,g us this jeffrey rosen, president and ceo of the national constitution center. joining us to talk about constitutional rights and the coronavirus pandemic, mr. rosen, you wrote an article with the

headline, hamilton would not have stood for trump's new constitutional theory? what are you referring to? guest: last monday, president trump may 2 they constitutional claims. he said he had total authority to open or close the states, and on wednesday, he said he could adjourn congress, if they refuse -- what was striking is people on both sides of the aisle questioned his theory. andrew cuomo said the president is not a king, and rand paul powers remainthe out of the people under the 10th of may meant that the president cannot infringe. alexander hamilton addressed this question, which will be great for viewers to check out if you want to get his full argument, and hamilton himself gave four reasons why the president has less power than

either of the british king or the governor of new york. gives isinal reason he the fact that the president can only adjourn congress when both have disagree, whereas the british king can adjourn parliament whenever he likes as can a governor of new york at that time. though point was even hamilton who stood up for the constitution and set the president and senate should be elected -- even he emphasized limits on presidential power, and went on to say that came from a theory called mixed government that hamilton on the other framers got from classical philosophers, like cicero and aristotle, and all of these speakers said there are three orders in society, the one, the you, and in many and they had to be balanced in the different frames of government, and --

[indiscernible] and it isy argument meaningful. the best thing you can do during this time of crisis when it comes to the constitution is educate yourself, and read the primary sources in the text of the constitution and the federalist papers and other works of the founders and make your own mind. host: what are the concerns you and hamilton had with what the president has been saying in recent days? guest: well, hamilton was extremely concerned that the federalt would sue the government for himself, power stepped along to the people. he gives examples of the possible corruption. what if a state governor is engaging in a conspiracy against the united states that would not serve the public interest? the president can only pardon people. does notrdon power

extend to the people. some governors at the time, new hampshire and other states, were allowed to have their pardons extend, even in the case of impeachment, and hamilton word that themilton worried president can use his powers to serve himself in the country. host: how does this apply to the coronavirus pandemic? guest: really, what people are focusing on right now or whether or not the states should have to reopen, and the question was does the president have the power to open up states? under the u.s. -- since the president did not close the states to begin with, he is not the one with the power to reopen them. the states have emergency power inopen or close themselves public health threats. the federal government does have emergency powers, but only those

that have been delegated to the president by congress. so, the president has do powers, he is the commander and chief of the armed forces, and heekin make sure the laws are executed, would have to invoke a delegated power congress passed or the national emergency act to try to build a wall. it is interesting. under the u.s. system, president's powers, from congress -- the president's powers come from congress. of the late 19th century entering the spanish flu, 1918, where the federal government issued quarantine orders to sustain the state governors, but interestingly, there has never been a case where the federal government has tried to close or open the entire country on its own, and it is not clear from existing legal authorities whether he actually can do that. host: the 10th amendment of the

constitution reads as such -- the powers not delegated to the united states by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, a reserve to the states respectively, or to the people. how does this fit into what you are saying? guest: the 10th amendment was a crucial reminder of the time the andtitution of federalism unlimited power of the federal government. both the federalist and the anti-federalist feared that the u.s. government would become a consolidated entity that would take away all powers from the states. doison and hamilton said you not have to worry the federal government is one of enumerated powers. look at congress. it has the power to regulate interstate commerce, or to run a the office, war to suspend rights to -- the rights to allow people to challenge the

constitution but it does not have a general power to summon policemilitary and run a state to have standing armies. all of those powers are denied to congress. only the president has enumerated powers. , don't these reasons worry, antifederalists that the government will become of one of the consolidated powers, says madison, we are a country of dual sovereignty. the federal government a sovereign within its sphere and the states are sovereign within their sphere. the ultimate sovereignty devolves not on the state or federal governments, but in we the people. that is the centralized idea of the constitution. who has a sovereign authority? we the people. it into the some of federal government, parsing it out to the judiciary and other other partsh and

are delegated to state governors, but ultimately, the power devolves and thus, and is our we believe that retained rights are being protestd, we can either or in the ultimate case, there is the right to alter and abolish government by revolution. it is a pretty radical theory that all of the founders embraced, based on the idea popular sovereignty, and the really important ideas that the president is not aching, and -- that the president is not a king , nor is andrew cuomo a king. no one official can speak for us. host: jeffrey rosen is taking your questions this morning on constitutional rights during this covid pandemic. if you live in the eastern/central part of the country, (202) 748-8000 good mountain/pacific (202) 748-8001. let's sum to what the president had to say recently when he

talks about his power over states. [video clip] if a government issue -- the president does authority -- the president authority. when somebody is the president of the united states, the authority is total. and that is the way it has got to be. host: jeffrey rosen, the president says the authority is total and that is the way it has got to be. guest: it is not the theory of the u.s. constitution. the national constitution's closed during are the crisis, is nonpartisan. i am just going to try to describe to you the consensus on both sides of the aisle, and republican and democratic scholars in this case agree that the president of the united states, whose authority is not total it is enumerated and limited to its distinctive sphere, primarily the commander-in-chief of the armed

forces. the president does not have the authority to declare war, says hamilton, unlike the british king. cares the power to take that the laws are faithfully executed, but he does not have the power to make law, which is why some executive orders issued not only by president from, but by democratic precedents, some of argued are constitutionally questionable. there is a debate today about how brought the president's power is, and if you want to learn more about it, check out the interactive constitution where we summon top scholars to write about each clause of the constitution, describing what they agree or disagree about. the is lane article two, part of the constitution that enumerates the president's powers. scholars describe the difference of executive power, minimalist and maximalist. minimalists believe the president only has the power

that the constitution spells out. congress is the one that has all of the enumerated powers in article one, section 10, and the president only has a handful, the right to accept ambassadors and nominate officials and judges. that is the minimalist position. believe that the president shall take care that the laws are faithfully executed and investing in the executive power of the united states shall be vested in the president. they believe that allows him to exercise powers that are not written down. they are not enumerated. you remember in the debate about the war on terror, whether the president have the power to detain people indefinitely, or even to engage in wiretapping and telephone calls for national security purposes? that he had tom have total executive power. that is a meaningful debate.

saying that everyone agrees pretty -- agrees. int's go to lynn texas. go ahead. yes, he was sworn in and became the president and he took an oath. he became the president. -- first he was a civilian and then he became the president after the oath. he assumed a lot of authority after that, but that is the only thing. i know he has a job description. if you want to read about what he describes, there are three of

them that describe his job. could you read that out to me. that is all i have to say. host: jeffrey rosen? that is a: -- guest: wonderful question. before he takes the oath, he has no power. once he takes the oath, all that power is invested in him. let's read the job description in the constitution. i am holding up my interactive constitution. you can go to constitutioncenter dot org and you will see both the text of the constitution, which is his job description, and you will see the excellent nation written by scholars. job description, the executive power should be vested in the president of the united states of america. that is the vesting clause, and that is the clause i said have a disagreement about how brought it is. whether it includes powers and when he took that oath that are not listed in the rest of his

job description. it says he shall hold office during the tenure of four years. that was a big debate. alexander stood up and said i think the president should be elected for life. the original draft of the president's term would be seven years with only one possibility of serving no reelection, and then it was four years with the possibility of a reelection. talks about how each state chooses the electoral college. today at noon on zoom, the national constitutional center is holding a debate. the supreme court will hear two important cases involving the many state laws that prohibit electors from voting for people other than those who are chosen to vote for them. the court will decide whether they are consistent with the president job description in article two. andy gives the -- and it gives the qualifications.

no one, but a natural u.s. born -- he gets a salary, has to be 35 years or older. remember when president obama took the oath and achieve justice slightly changed it and had to take it again to make sure he got it right? president's job description is not very long. we are getting to the end of it. section two says the president shall be commander-in-chief of the army and navy of the united states, and of the militia of the several states. it has to be congress that summons up the militia, and the president is a commander-in-chief. george washington arrives at the front of a militia to put down the whiskey rebellion, series of protesters of tax. he can ask the executive departments for their opinions. he can grant pardons for

offenses, except in cases of impeachment. that is what hamilton was talking about. you cannot dangle pardons in front of people who conspired against him. he can make treaties. two thirds of the senate has to concur. ambassadors and other officers of the united states, who is appointed and provided by law, and congress can put the appointments of the office and the president -- this is a huge issue. can the president fire any official he acquires? the dispute comes down to if it is an officer he appoints rather than congress does, executive heer maximalists thinks should be able to fire him and minimalists think he should create a federal reserve whose officers can serve without the president. commissions.

that is what was going on leslie. president trump says he wants to be able to have recess requirements. it is a technical and complicated question. the fact that senate and congress only recessed for three days. the supreme court recently said president obama could not make -- finally, we are section three and four. let's go through the rest of it. giveon three, he shall congress information about the state of the union and recommend measures he judges expedient. he can make recommendations, but he cannot make law. it is up to congress to make a law. occasions, isrily an amazing how all of this is in the job description? honest ordinary occasions, he can convene both houses or either of them, and in cases of

disagreement between them with respect of the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them at such time he things proper. hamilton puts that cases of disagreement in capital letters -- the president cannot adjourn congress because he does not like what he they are doing. he can receive ambassadors and other public ministers, and -- you shouldut take care that the laws be faithfully executed. that is the take care part. that is what gives them all the power to execute the laws, but not to make them. and the final section is impeachment. president, vice president, and all civil officers of the the u.s. shall be removed from office on impeachment or conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes. i am so glad you asked for the job description because we really see how few powers he has. the investing clause, the powers invested in him, the ability to

grant -- you heard it. it is not a whole lot of powers. that is why hamilton said in many respects, the president's powers are less than the british king or the governor of new york. are: if our viewers interested, they can go to constitution center -- constitutioncenter dot org. you can find that up let's go to seattle. good morning. go ahead with your question or comment. caller: how are you doing this morning? my question or comment is this, that this may sound crazy what i am about to say, but i feel like as citizens of the united states, we have been bamboozled with propaganda. when aids came to the united states, there was no social-distancing. when ebola came to the united states, there was no social-distancing. pandemic of a flulike symptoms that 300 some odd thousand people may have

heard some people have recovered and some people have died. so, i am confused about how are you going to throw this in the equation to stop being around each other, when those epidemics , were really, really, really big? host: let's get to the rules that the governors are putting in place. some guidelines, but some rules as well on social-distancing. we have had governor saying now, if you go to a grocery store in our state, you need to wear a mask, you need to stay six feet apart. validese constitutionally policies that they are making? could one argue coercion, and that is illegal -- and if that is a legal buzzword? guest: it is a great question, and the answer is it is a legal buzzword, but courts are unlikely to accept those arguments. so, it seems signed -- so it

seems counterintuitive. you are right when you say -- why do state governors have all of this power? maybe it is not a good policy. courts have held that state governors as opposed to federal governments, do have a pretty unlimited power to regulate health, safety, and morals. that was a 19th century version of it. state governments do not have enumerated powers. they can do anything. in past pandemics, starting right after the constitution was drafted during the yellow fever epidemic, state governance basically closed down and prevented even congress from meeting in philadelphia, or their told people they cannot gather in order not to get yellow fever or smallpox. and the supreme court that looked at this question, upheld this in a case called u.s.

versus jacob sam farr that case involved compulsory vaccinations. that started in massachusetts in the late 19th century and the supreme court said, while -- and the supreme court said massachusetts had to accept vaccinations. they cannot reject vaccinations because the run of health was so great that people could be forced or coerced into being vaccinated. that is more instrument having to wear masks in public. imagine having to sit down and having a needle put in your arm? now, these quarantine orders are not unlimited. we have seen a bunch of legal challenges to them. there was a pastor who said, this violates my exercise of religion and the assembly rights of my congregation. i want to hold service. courts are likely to reject that claim as long as churches are not being singled out. it is the response to all groups

larger than 50, and not just this one, and they are considered neutral laws that could be upheld. gun shops are saying their rights have been violated. saying religious people cannot seek exemptions, call the smith case, but there are some of these cases that are coming out of quarantine orders than michael up to the supreme court apart texas has held that women can only get abortions if they are necessary to save the life of the mother. in some people are saying that violates the right articulated affirmed in planned parenthood that says you can have abortions withoutetal viability undue burdens being imposed on them. if the quarantine goes on for a long time, it is not impossible to see the supreme court taking a case like that, but is long is the quarantine is in limited

duration? storesn definitely close and prohibit assembly, that will completely about the constitution. durationder of limited based on a public health emergency, the courts have held in the passive state governments, in particular, do have extreme a broad authority to do that. host: what about lawful assembly? jim says who has the authority for people to gather unlawful assembly? you touched on that with the churches. but who has that power? guest: state governors have the power, under these emergency theantine orders, and president could exercise similar authority on federal lands, even byembly rights are limited time, place, and manner of restrictions, as long as they

are content-neutral. if the state governor were saying, you cannot have a protest against my quarantine order, all those folks who were saying, open up the states, you cannot disband those protests that allow protests in favor of the governor perry but if the orders are neutral, no assembly over 50 people for public health reasons. those are upheld as time, place, questions, but these could become much more serious is the pointing goes on for a long time in the state gets to an election season, and governors are preventing protests that favor one party or another. that could raise questions. we are doing a series of live classes on the constitution at 1:00 p.m. on zoom at the constitution center. and we talk freedom -- and we talked freedom of assembly last

week, and it was striking how few cases there are recently attended to be assumed to be first to mimic principles, but at the time of the framing, they were absolutely central. william penn, who was the quaker , who was prosecuted in england, tried to hold religious gatherings, and the king prohibited them because he did not like quakers, and william penn said, when he was being tried for the crime, mind your privilege. he was saying, stand up for your rights, and the jury refused to enforce the law and cleared him. that is a powerful receding -- that is a powerful precedent. may be problematic and those may be tested if the quarantine goes on for a long time. host: let's go to angela in maryland. good morning. caller: i have a question about the interstate commerce call for the constitution. i have heard that -- i have

heard mark talk on fox news saying the president could force the states to reopen using the interstate commerce clause, which i don't see -- i don't know of any precedent cases for that. i wanted your opinion. guest: great question. so much of the scope of the presidential and congressional power comes down to the interstate commerce clause today. remember, that was the whole debate over obamacare, where five justices on the supreme court said the president had no power -- >> good morning. happy monday. , to myar-right, a doctor left, another doctrine.