>> this memorial day weekend on 3:25 p.m.day at eastern, james patterson talks about his efforts to assist bookstores impacted by the coronavirus. plus, his latest book "the house of kennedy." four :00 p.m. eastern, the president of american greatness founder nick adams on his book "trump and churchill: defenders of western civilization." "time" correspondent molly paul talks about her latest book looking at the speaker of the house of representatives nancy pelosi. at 9:00 p.m. on "afterwards," chris hughes talks about his book "fair shot," about his plan to reduce poverty and strengthen the middle class. eastern, at 8:30 p.m. david bell got cheap talks about

his writing career and books on "in-depth." watch booktv this memorial day weekend on c-span2. journal" continues. host: once again, we are going to open up our phone lines to you with the question, will you attend church in person once they are reopened? on friday,because president donald trump announced that his administration is moving toward deeming places of worship essential, which means he wants governors to start reopening religious institutions for services immediately. in fact, here is president trump and what he said. [video clip] president trump: some governors have deemed liquor stores essential, but have left out churches and other houses of worship. it is not right. i am correcting this injustice and calling houses of worship

essential. i call upon governors to allow our churches and places of worship to open right now. if there is any questions, they are going to have to call me, but they will not be successful in that call. these are places that hold our society together and keep our people united. the people are demanding to go to church, synagogues, go to their mosques. many millions of americans embrace worship as an essential part of life. pastors, rabbis, and other faith leaders will make sure that their congregations are safe as they gather and pray. i know them well. they love their congregations. they love their people. they do not want anything to happen to them or to anybody else. the governors need to do the right thing and allowed is very

important essential places of faith to open right now. this weekend. if they do not do it, i will override the governors. in america, we need more prayer, not less. host: we are going open up special lines for this conversation are c-span viewers. if you are ready to go back to church immediately, we want to hear from you at (202)-748-8000. if you are not ready to go back right now because of the coronavirus pandemic, we went to hear from you at (202)-748-8001. if you are not sure, we want to know. we want to hear from you at (202)-748-8002. and we are opening a special line this morning for clergy. i want to know what you are thinking about for your congregations. if you have your church and you could open this weekend, would you? i went to hear from clergy at --

i want to hear from clergy at (202)-748-8003. you can reach us on text at the same number, (202)-748-8003, and we are always on social media on twitter at @cspanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. dan callingwith from dublin, ohio. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. return.absolutely the testament talks about the apart andver we are the key is how do we live to share christ to the world? hopefully we are doing that on a day-to-day basis. in terms of our congregation, they have done a ventilation system overhaul, and we expect we will be social distance, as well as masks. for me personally this is a part of the christian fellowship for

me that has been missing. thank you for this effort. host: let's talk to deborah from fort worth, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span and for what you do, sir. i am from new jersey. i have a son living in new jersey. i have last several family members and had euros online on facebook and zoom. wait.eve we need to i believe taking chances like going to church, sitting six feet apart is not good enough. i also worked in clinical research. i think we are very much underrepresented in that area as it results to clinical research being done on diseases that affect what we call itty-bitty people, minorities, minorities. i am not minor, and i'm not itty-bitty. there are diseases i believe need to be tested and need to be

sent through phase one, to make sure and ensure that these are viable. going to church right now is not on my program. i am happy to share a fellowship with my family online at facebook or whatever, other virtual media that is available. host: let's talk to tom calling from winterhaven, florida. good morning. caller: are you there? host: go ahead, tom. caller: you know what? let me tell you something. there is something very significant. i cannot explain it, and i do not care to try to explain it, but the best times i have ever wasin my life was when it faith, family, fellowship, i mean, i don't care if it is church, synagogue, if you are

muslim. it does not matter. we all need something to believe in. -- i is something about mean there is not nothing good or bad about thinking the good lord for my blessings. there is something about it. there is something about it. host: let's talk to brenda calling from sandy springs, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i am really calling from burnsville, maryland. thank you for doing an excellent job of moderating their show. secondly, i am happy to have the opportunity to talk to c-span. i've been watching for years. no, no. i will not go back to church while the pandemic is going on. unless my church can assure me it will be safe to go there. i have been a churchgoer for

years. i love the lord, but the lord gave me brains, too. people in church like to hug, they like to be close together, and this is not good. this is not good for people's lives. even if you are a religious person, you have to use your brain. we need to wait until this pandemic is under more control before we go back to church. and most churches stream their services, and you can pay your dues online. listening to the president to say, call me, he is demanding they open. this is for the evangelistic vote. host: let's talk to keith, howing from hopton's cu -- chickens park, illinois. park, illinois.

[no audio] caller: so just right now, i do not know what to do. i think i would want to sit it out, but to think somebody like donald trump who is concerned about religion i find a laugh. this guy speaks about his daughter in such filthy terms. he does not care about religion or believe in god at all. and the only people who will listen to him are his supporters. i don't care if they go by what he says so they will not be around in november to vote for him. host: let's talk to tiny, calling from winston-salem, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. no, i'm not ready to go back to church because it is not fixed and ready to go back.

so many people important to church, and they -- so many andle pour into church, more people come, and it was on the news where one person went to church and sat down and there were only 40 people in the church. [indiscernible] unless you can pay your dues through the church office, you can always stick your money in the slot. trump came onhy their acting like that. that is why he did not want anybody to ask him questions because he does not go to church. are: some state governors pushing back on president donald trump, who says he can order religious institutions to open. a statement that came from the

washington governor state ensley -- washington governor inslee says we are working with health experts to identify ways to do this safely. the governor's office said in a written statement "while we have read the president's comments, there was no order in which we think he understands that he cannot dictate what states can or cannot open." you,again, we are asking will you attend church in person once they are reopened? let's go to addison from union, new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: just fine, are you a member of the clergy? caller: yes, i am the executive pastor of a church here. host: what are you telling your flock? caller: we are telling them, one, be safe primarily. but also, like other churches

across the country, we have used social media, such as zoom, facebook live and youtube to livestream to reach out to our people. an urban area, close to north new jersey, in a hotspot. a lot of people are still being affected by the virus, so we are holding back for a while to make sure things are safe. we went to make sure the proper social distancing is done. we want to make sure that places are adequately cleaned. dowant to come back, but we not want anything to happen to our congregants. we have been set up to minister to people, encourage people, to talk to people. we are expanding our ministry to help people, but we also want people to be safe. we are listening to a lot of christian doctors who are saying that there are certain

protocols and precautions we need to take. ,o for us to flood back particularly in this northern new jersey area, may not be the wisest thing for right now. host: addison, what do you need to hear to know that it is finally safe and time to reopen your doors? of the things, our governor is governor murphy, and statistics are being tracked. i think one of them is seeing a reduction of the various cases. as you know, new jersey has the second-highest number of deaths. in this urban area, we have been a hotspot, so we need to see, i think, and this is addison from the hood talking, but we need to hear that there has been an adequate reduction of the rate of people getting the virus. oft: let's look at what some

our social media followers are whether they will attend church in person when they reopen. one person says any christian who must find a sanctuary to worship must reflect on their spirituality. tother tweet says if you go church, have them outdoors, and make sure all of your windows are open in church. keep the air coming in fresh. the more fresh air, the better. t says online churches more effective. one more tweet that says among our vicious guiding points is it is better for our parishes to open a month too late than a day too early. he also reminded the fed we have an obligation to protect the people of god. godtext came in that says, never needed churches. people need churches. god is everywhere, and i can worship him at home. i do not need to go to church to get the coronavirus.

let's go back to our phone lines and see what our think about this question. let's talk to francis, calling from lumberton, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. is reallys, i feel it good for us to go back to church and be with our brothers and sisters. i think it will be an uplift for us, and i feel it will help me a life, and iiritual have always went to church from a little girl, and i can't hardly wait to get back to church. host: let's talk to patricia, calling from nashville, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. i am longing to go back to church, like so many people, but i do believe the holy spirit is wherever you are, and jesus will not desert you, especially at a time like this.

we have his attention and his love. i would like to say that for everyone, the information we are getting from the white house right now is probably not the information we need to follow. let's rely on our spiritual leaders and have them make the decision. they are the ones taking the percussion to make sure that we obey the large commandment. we must protect our neighbors. when it is safe to do that, i will be the first one. clean, keepmentally social distancing, and do the right thing. really, the underprivileged people, we leading to jesus more because we have the wounds and he has the wounds, and we are the most effective old to what so makingn right now, that decision to what is best or your family and jesus who is upon us. and he knows all things and

cures all things. that is the message i want you to hear today. host: let's talk to catherine, calling from cleave, ohio. caller: good morning. my name is catherine drill. i live about 60 miles from cincinnati. i am a born -- 16 miles from cincinnati. i am a born-again christian. i will not be attending church tomorrow. are you still there? host: go ahead, catherine. caller: i will not attend church tomorrow. i got my husband out of the hospital yesterday, the third time since march and he is a hard and long patient on oxygen. god gives christians common sense. sometimes it is not in your best interest to go to church. i love god. i have been a christian most of my life, but i would like to say this, has god got your attention yet, america? if you are a bible reader, and i am, then you need to understand what is being inflicted upon us

and is getting us ready for bigger things to come. host: let's talk to keith, calling from palm bay, florida. good morning. caller: good morning, guys. happy or somber and smooth moral day weekend. dayr somber memorial weekend. as we respect the people who died to make this country free, we need to start being adults again. host:host: can you hear me? yes, go ahead. caller: this does not mean, just because churches will be open, there will be buses going -- there will not be buses going around making everybody go to church. this is an opportunity to serve the lord and go to houses of worship but not mandatory. every state is not the same. every state is not new york and new jersey. the ones who have the choices to nothing wrong with going to church.

as much as i don't have anything wrong with it, why don't you have a question of which do you think is worse? bars are open, where people will not be sober? host: let's talk to steve, calling from jacksonville, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i am against widespread opening of churches for the obvious reason, it will spread the pandemic. concerned president trump is doing this as a cynical, political ploy to rally up his evangelical troops, but i do not think he is sincere. i think he is in the past it is documented and recorded he has referred to the communal host as a cracker and the communal juice or wine as liquor. that is not a rumor. that is truth. he has also referred to the

persecution, so-called, of him as a witch hunt. i believe he is practicing cultic practices of wishful thinking or mind control, or whatever you want to refer to it as, following the teachers of norman vincent heald -- teachings of norman vincent heald. from let's talk to meeda, washington, d.c., are you clergy? a part of the multimedia industry at my church. i personally feel churches should be allowed to reopen. i personally will not be attending. i am not a primary pastor. i work with the multimedia ministry. i have been enjoying the virtual learning. it is giving me a bit more of an opportunity, and many people i christianityrstand

because i'm christian. however, at the same time, a lot of churches have smaller congregations and so social distancing and a lot of cases it will not be an issue. that has been a bigger complaint for a lot of churches these days. i personally will not be going, but i feel churches should have the right to reopen, just as liquor stores. dispensaries, walmart, and grocery stores. every area is not like new york or washington, d.c. you have rural areas that are not impacted in the same way. host: the cdc actually issued some interim guidance for places of worship if they reopen. i will show a few of those to you here. first, they suggest that churches promote healthy hygiene practices.

they are suggesting and telling churches and places of worship to encourage use of cloth face coverings, to intensify cleaning, disinfection, and until asian -- and ventilation. and to promote social distancing, take steps to limit thesize of gatherings with directives of state and local authorities. finally, take steps to limit sharing of worship community items, and of course, per nursery, childcare and youth groups, refer to the cdc information and adapt as needed. let's see if we can get a few more calls and before the top of the hour. jonda calling with from honolulu, hawaii. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: yes.

but what of unsure, does not make any sense is that i mean we could go to grocery stores and this and that. more apt to get coronavirus at grocery stores, restaurants, going to the beach, you know? think going to church, i mean, it is a blessing, but we all need to come together and praise the heavenly father. we can praise the heavenly father anywhere. yes, he is with us, but each to their own. you know? from let's talk to david baltimore, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. church is notat necessarily the building. the church is the people.

or threesays when two are together in my name, i will be in their midst and bless them. so christians or whatever can get together with each other and they can have a meeting place at their house or some other place that does not have to be a church building because they are the church. terry,et's talk to calling from north las vegas, nevada. good morning. caller: good morning. that is my first name, but i like to be called what they call me at church, mother jordan. almost 81, and as of june 1 i will be. i will not be attending. the reason being is i don't think it is safe. the germs going around is no joke. it is serious. i am involved in my church four times a week right now through the telephone, and then on sunday, so i am not missing that relationship. i am part of them five days a

week. i am still involved in with the lord tells me to do, but no, i will not attend church at the open right now. i love my church, and they love me, ok? dreamon fromalk to virginia. did i get that right? caller: yes. i will be attending. i attended church last sunday. we do the social distancing, no hugging or shaking hands. they ask you wear a mask. i am 75 years old. you know, i am reminded of the per gode in timothy, has not given us the spirit of fear with the power of love and a sound mind. fear comes from satan. you can control people with

fear. i think we need to set the example by attending church and worshiping the lord. i just put my trust in the lord.the pastor said last sunday i'm surprised to see you. i said, well, if i can go to walmart, if i can go shopping and do what i need to do, then i can come to church. god should be my first priority. host: we would like to thank all of our callers and social media followers for that great conversation. next, adam schuster of the illinois policy institute will discuss how the federal government can provide aid to states while keeping them accountable. later, we will have a look at the future of the restaurant industry, the pandemic. adam sewer will join us for that conversation

>> lift off. [cheers] announcer: watch live coverage space --aunch of- spacex. on tuesday at 10:00 a.m. eastern, live on c-span. the countdown clock briefing with the nasa administrator on wednesday. live coverage of the crew begins at 12:15 p.m. eastern on c-span2, with lithographic 4:30 p.m., as nasa astronauts launch to the international space station. station. then a post launch briefing. i'll do live coverage of the spacex crew dragon as it docs with the international space station. and in the event between the

spacex crew dragon and the iss crew. watch live on c-span and c-span2, online at c-span.org or listen on the free spaceman -- freeseas been radio app. announcer: "washington jounral" continues. adam schuster plea arbat -- with adamre back schuster to talk about how the federal government can provide aid to states while keeping them accountable. first, tell us exactly with the illinois policy institute is. nonpartisan,a nonprofit public policy research and education organization. so you could call it a think tank. economice or focus policy that promotes a freer and more prosperous illinois. at theo, l&i has been

center of a a lot of discussions about the amount of federal aid going to states in the middle of the pandemic. what is the situation in ellen neu right now? guest: we are at the center of the debate and we should be because illinois is one of the most fiscally mismanaged states in the nation, we are always up there with new jersey, one of the two states least prepared for the recession before covid-19 hit, according to moody analytics. and when everything hit, obviously there was a huge drop in economic activity. many businesses were ordered to shut down. tourism dried up. sales taxes dried up. income taxes are down. that for mynse to state senate president was to congress, requesting a $44 billion bailout. and $10 billion of that, nearly a quarter of that total, was for our indebted pension system,

which has been mismanaged by our state politicians for decades. but they are essentially asking is for the federal government, and taxpayers of the other 49 states, to bail us out for mistakes of the past. host: what type of federal aid do states get right now? and where does illinois land on that list? guest: states get numerous federal aid. there is a number of large programs jointly funded by the federal government and state government, and there are others administered by the state and funded by the federal government. one of the largest is medicaid. medicaid unemployment insurance insuranceemployment and they backstop that through loans. if you look across shares of budget, the most states are around the same range. right around receiving the same amount from the federal government. some statistics that are

misleading, people are talking about the donor state thing, but what that is measuring is transfers between citizens, individuals and of the federal government, not between the state governments and federal government. host: the tax foundation has a map i will show here with federal aid as a percentage of state general revenue. 28.5%.s illinois at that is lower -- it says on the list it is number 41, but one of the things you are talking about is how do you hold states accountable for the money that they are actually getting from the federal government. thatxactly would you say the federal government should hold states accountable for the money that they are getting? guest: our position has been that if the federal government is going to offer financial aid, it should do what has been done in nearly every financial rescue package throughout the world in

the public and private sector, which is to attach conditions to make sure the money is not squandered, and to make sure states are fixing the financial mismanagement that got them in trouble to begin with. illinois is in much more desperate need for the need than texas commit arizona or florida, though states making wise decisions leading up in the last 10 years of economic growth, sitting aside reserves. spending at appropriate levels that they can afford with their taxation. illinois has not been. new jersey has not been. connecticut has not been. so we are saying in order to receive this aid, please states should be required to mediate set of conditions. true are sound pensions, balanced budgets and rainy day funds. that is essentially money that the state saves during growth, so that they do not have to make severe budget cuts or tax hikes. illinois essentially had no rainy day fund going into this. so those are essentially the

three conditions. the way congress can do this would be to offer forgivable loans, much like the paycheck protection program. you could call the taxpayer protection program. states would have to voluntarily apply for the loans. and then get them forgiven, if they meet the conditions, otherwise they would need to be repaid with interest. that is essentially the bare-bones of a plan. host: let's let the viewers take part in the conversation. we will open up our regular lines for this conversation. that means democrats, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. republicans, your number will be (202) 748-8001. and independents, you can call at (202) 748-8002. youran always text us opinion on this conversation at (202) 748-8003. and we are always reading on social media, on twitter and on facebook.com/cspan.

we have seen a lot of governors ask for additional funding because of the coronavirus pandemic. what has been the government response and what do you think they need to do to make sure that that money goes to the things where the states say they needed? -- need it? guest: the federal government has already provided significant aid to state and local governments, including $150 billion under the cares act that was directed to large local governments. they included additional funding for higher education, for k-12 education, public transport, hospital systems, and it is already over $200 billion in aid. that is directly tied to the crisis. much like a hurricane or other natural disasters, it would be like disaster relief, so this is money that can be used for the

cost directly related to covid-19. it is mostly for health costs, but also offsetting economic damage. now there are requests for bailouts. that is like a blank check bail out or no string attached bailout. there was a bill that would provide nearly a trillion dollars to state and local governments and another bill that was filed in the senate that would offer a $500 billion blank check. so the amount is probably, you know, it depends on how congress ultimately wants to measure it, but there is an argument for significantly more aid, because you do not want to see the states making severe cuts or certainly not raise taxes. but again what we are saying is, you have to fix the underlying issues that got you in trouble in the first place if you want that money. an analogy i use is imagine you are a parent, or if you are a parent, imagine you have a

chowder that graduated from college, they moved to the city, they get a big apartment on the lakefront here in chicago, they get a nice expensive car, they are going out to eat all the time and next thing you know they cannot pay their bills. they have $20,000 in credit card debt. and they ask their parents for financial assistance. well, if you are a loving parent, but responsible parent, my offer to help them, but you will tell them to downsize the apartment, get a car you can afford, and to stop spending so much because we do not want to keep bailing you out year after year. host: you wrote a column that said about one thing that congress should avoid when they -- or when or if they put strings on the money. i will read what you wrote. be an inclination to force austerity on them. that could include tax hikes.

that was a mistake in greece. in illinois, austerity was already imposed by a system that for 20 years crowded out core services, while driving up taxes at the state and local level. congress has an opportunity to rescue struggling states, but it should make lifelines for states to help save themselves." if you are saying already you think that states are mismanaging their money, why not force them to come back to bare-bones and build backup from their? -- there? guest: not all states have the exact same problem when it comes to just sort of general spending levels or taxation levels. so we do not want congress to be in the business of micromanaging the states' policies. we do not want to run afoul of federalism or the constitution. but we think it is appropriate that congress makes sure that the money is used for intended purposes, which is to find

essential services. that is why these conditions are so important. that includes sound pensions, truly balanced budgets and rainy day savings. the way to enforce that is if you apply for the loans, you have to have a pension system that can be fully funded within 25 years, because most states have pension debt. be fully funded in line with best practices, the pension accounting experts, and you have to be able to pay it off without increasing taxpayer costs. for the budget committee cannot do things like sweep funds in from other accounts and counted as revenue. you have to actually balance the budget at the end of the year. and rainy day savings, we are saying that states should have a target for savings, 5% to 10% of their budget and reserves, so that when the economy eventually takes another downturn, because recessions are cyclical, that they will not come back to ask for another bailout. we do not want every time there

is an economic downturn, congress bills out the states. we do not want that to be a new normal because it will punish the responsible states, and sheila politicians from the consequences of their decisions -- shield politicians from the consequences of their decisions. host: let's go to the viewers. we will start with joyce: fro calling from missouri. ofler: we are just outside the capital city about 10 miles. ok, um, i was going to ask a different question but i do disagree with the statement that states should not be able to borrow. themselvesr to keep solvent or raising taxes. in missouri, the state cannot a majority without

vote of the people, you know, notlegislature doe nos have that power. every state receives an allegation, per capita, of the ability to use tax-exempt bond sales for specific purposes. i used those funds for 30 years making loans to first-time homebuyers. i do not know what is happening to the real estate market right now. i am retired and not completely on top of it, but i am thinking with 20% unemployment we probably are having a hard time getting guarantees of the continued employment to get a loan approved. if those funds can also be private athletic

stadiums, football stadiums, why could it not be diverted for time, oned of quarter, two quarters, a year, however much time it takes -- why could the states and not be allocated the funds and the need in the form of tax-exempt bonds? host: go ahead. guest: to clarify, i am not saying that they should not be able to borrow at all. in addition to the grants already given, there is a new program and the federal reserve called the municipal lending facility, a backstop for the state and local bond market. they will provide liquidity as well to the states, and allow them to borrow. borrowing and growth periods

should be for specific purposes. you generally do not want to take out debt unless it is something that will be productive with a return on investment. so that is for things like capital, infrastructure projects. but in a recession like this, when there are few other bad -- or good options and only bad options, it does make sense that they would need loans for liquidity. what i'm talking about is one of the conditions should be that states cannot count borrowing as a form of revenue. so when they have balanced budget requirements, illinois has a very weak balanced-budget requirement, but the revenues have to match expenditures. so what counts as revenue? in illinois it should be taxes. that is actually new money coming in. but in illinois we have relied on gimmicks, such as a short-term borrowing for operating costs.

so not for capital infrastructures, but just to pay the normal cost of the state. we have slipped money from other special state funds. for example we have a fund called the mental health fund, funded by people who use those services in the state and it is supposed to be used to improve mental health services in the state, so it has a dedicated revenue source and expenditures, but the state usually sleeps it -- sweeps it in for operating costs. so what we are saying is congress must enforce realistic accounting standards on states. if they are going to ask for money from the federal government, they cannot rely on gimmicks and tricks to hide their deficit. met lastsident trump month with ron desantis on the issue of aid to states. i want to show you a little bit from what president trump said and the response to it. we will get to that in a moment.

but while we are talking about that, who do you think should be in charge of making sure federal aid to states during this crisis, we should be in charge of making sure that states use the money in the proper way? should it be a federal monitor? state monitors? guest: it could be something like a board, sort of like a fiscal watchdog. or it could be somebody in the treasury. i think that those details could be worked out. what is really important is simply that we put the right strings attached. the way that you read from the op-ed is what we are really saying. the federal government can come to the rescue. it can help states from having to make severe budget cuts, from having to cut social services, from having to raise taxes. but the rescue that these estates really need, the rescue the residents need is financial

reforms, not just throwing good money after bad. host: here is president trump with thes meeting florida governor. [video clip] >> what you think about the idea from capitol hill, about spending money for individual states who may be suffering severely through lost revenues and picking up a lot of that tab? i think there is a difference between a state that really needs help for covid-19 and a state that has been run badly. we have to talk about things like payroll tax cuts. we would have to talk about things like sanctuary cities, as an example. i think that has to be brought up, where people who are criminals are protected. they are protected from prosecution. i think that has to be done. i think that is one of the problems the state has. it, have a big problem with

with the sanctuary city situation. we would have to talk about a lot of different things. but we are open to talking, but it would really have to be covid related, not related to performance management over the long -- over a long period. >> he really make that much of a distinction? >> it is an important distance intimate. we are not looking to do a bailout for a state that has been unfair -- it is unfair to most of the states that have done such a good job. host: i want you to respond to what you heard from president trump. guest: sure. i will not comment on the specifics of immigration policy, that is not really my wheelhouse. theink that congress and white house, when they negotiate over bills there is often horsetrading. if you give me this, i will give you that. they each have their own priorities. i think it payroll tax cut is something that could be a form of stimulus right now, but what

we are focusing on is not the horsetrading, but rather, you know, narrowly focused conditions to make sure that the issues that got the states and trouble are fixed. i would not say that states should not get money unless they unrelated on social policy, for example. if that is congress that wants to negotiate, that is a separate issue. but as far as the law, i think it is important to make sure that conditions attached are not political in nature and that they are narrowly tailored to actual mismanagement. of that the goal is not sort force unrelated political priorities, but to make sure that the money is being used appropriately. the mostllinois spends in the mission as a percentage of its revenue on its pension

system . we spent about 25% in a typical year on pensions. and this year because of revenue loss it will be closer to 30%. any money that you give the state of illinois without these types of financial reforms or without taxpayer protections, is not going to go for its intended purpose. it will not go to improving services. it will go toward propping up this completely unsustainable and unaffordable pension system that needs structural reform, not only to protect taxpayers, but also to protect the retirement security of the people who are relying on those pensions. insolvent pension system is not good for anybody. so i think that we can sort of differentiate between the sort of ordinary political horsetrading that congress does and that happens in washington, and what strings should be attached to the money to make sure that it is used appropriately. and quickly, i could mention to

you -- when you read from the op-ed, i said austerity had already been imposed on illinois by the pension system. just to give you a couple examples of what i mean by that, since 2000, after adjusting for inflation, spending on the pension system is up over 500%. spending on our government worker health insurance is up 130%. spending on education is up 21%. everything else, including the state police, including aid to universities, grants to help students go to college, everything else is down by nearly a third since the year 2000. over that same time, we have had two major income tax hikes and property taxes have skyrocketed to the second in the nation. so the pension system is harming residents. and if congress comes to the

rescue, they need to protect them from this type of mismanagement. host: we will go to michael from grand rapids, michigan on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. issue, butonpartisan you sound like a republican with all of your talking points. anyway, the pension, you are complaining about the pension losing them. senior citizens are the ones who contributed to the pension plans, so they are going to lose pricesixed income when are going up. so, why? another thing, you people complain about taxes. well, what pays for services? taxes. the rich get helped by lowering taxes. the poor loser services.

-- lose services. you harp on the pension program, but some of the states have no pension plans. there needsme that to be a bailout by the federal government to have the people keep money flowing in the country, so why not support a pension plan? host: go ahead. guest: we are not talking about eliminating pensions or anything draconian like that, we are not even talking about cutting pension benefits. my father was a 30 year career firefighter. he is receiving in public pension. it is very important to him. he took a lot of damage to his body over his career and it helps them have a secure retirement. we believe that public servants deserve a secure retirement. an on found -- unsound pension system does not provide a good retirement. we need to make sure that these

systems are affordable and sustainable, not only for the taxpayer but also for the person counting on the pension. otherwise it is an empty promise. and what will happen is, eventually, is the liabilities of the pension system that exist today cannot mathematically be paid off. there is no way the state can raise enough money to pay the pension system off without major structural reforms. so my point would simply be that we want people to have secure retirement, we do not want to hurt seniors on a fixed income, but the status quo is harming them. they need rescued to make sure those benefits are there for them in the long term. host: let's go to brian from maryland on and the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. c-spank, yout guys always have great topics. i want to make a comment first bent.adam's political

when he did his opening monologue, he cited only good examples of red states and bad examples of blue states. if you look at the information available, there is plenty of blue states that have good rainy day funds and fiscal budgets, and plenty of red states that are making a lot of mistakes. this argument about helping the states has become simply partisan, you saw that in the president's statement, and i think we need to stop that. i want to say that i agree that we should take each state state-by-state and treat them fairly, and this administration has not treated them fairly. maryland being a very blue were hit by the salt situation with regard to federal income tax. i want viewers to be aware that there is good and bad on both

sides, so we should try to make this independent. host: go ahead. guest: these conditions are not partisan. there are some well-managed states on either side of the aisle. we are not focused on who is running the state or with the partisan makeup of the state is. deeplyy has a very indebted pension system and would likely have to make changes, for example. citedestates i cited i because they have the largest net debt compared to the total debt burden, the total size of their economy. illinois, new jersey and connecticut in that order are in a class of their own. illinois is at 30%, the others around 24%. and the next date below that is hawaii and kentucky, died at 16%. 1ere is a huge -- tied at 6%. we are not focused on publishing

-- punishing anybody based on whether they are a red state or a blue state. most states would be able to meet these conditions automatically without making changes. the average state, i would say there are more well-managed states, soak before going into the crisis, before the pandemic, the median state had about 8% of its budget in reserves. illinois had 0%. so that is not a red state or blue state phenomenon, it is, have you been saving responsibly were not. any changes inee this situation as the state to reopen their economies post-pan demic? guest: you mean revenues? yeah, i think as the economy gets going again and as businesses start to reopen and people start to spend again, hopefully, we will see at least a halt to job losses. i would live to see people coming back onto payrolls.

that will increase tax revenues. but the losses have already happened. in illinois we have been essentially shut down for about three months now. there will be major revenue loss and i think that there is a legitimate argument that you want to prevent tax hikes, you want to prevent cuts to core services like public health services. we do not want to see that. it is bad for people living in the state. and severe cuts can lead to a deepening of contraction, especially when you're cutting into core government services. you are cutting into the meat of the budget. so i think that things are starting to improve in many states. in illinois, we are on the cusp of moving into the next phase of our reopening plan where there will be other activities allowed, like outdoor seating at restaurants. so congress does have a little bit of time.

they have given him a lot of aid already. i know that leader mitch mcconnell said he wanted to wait a little bit to see how the aid works out before they do another package, but they are also recognizing that they likely will spend more money on state and local aid. so that gives them time to negotiate and write the bill correctly to make sure these conditions are enforced. host: we would like to thank adam schuster for coming on and talking about federal aid for state governments. thank you so much. guest: thank you. host: next, we will talk about the future of the restaurant industry with yahoo! finance's andy serwer. but first, yesterday dr. birx explained it was an outbreak looks like. [video clip] birx: this is normalized through the population, but you can see that this is what we

want to see, very low case numbers. we want to see that they have identified an outbreak, have tested 100%, they contained 100%. and then they do not find any more cases. this is what is happening across the country county by county. this is a county map to really show you the work going on. since the last two months, we have gone to less than 4000 contact tracers to nearly 50,000. this is what has been happening behind the scenes. but i really want to applaud the healthrs and the local commissioners and local health departments, who really have been working quietly in an unassuming way, to really find in these cases, track them, isolate the cases and ensure there is no additional spread. you can see in many of these instances, they have gone more than two weeks without any additional spread.

so this is what we are hoping goes across the united states. we have to admit it will be much more difficult in metro areas, because you have to really identify, where are those asymptomatic cases and how will you find them. that is why there has been a a lot of additional resources going into disadvantaged areas and to the federal community clinics, to be able to proactively be able to test for the virus and find asymptomatic individuals. when somebody gets sick with covid-19, you have heard the cases. some of them have high fevers. and so they are not out walking around. so they may have been shedding the virus for one or two days before they got significantly ill, and they had to be in bed because they felt so terrible. they might have been out for two days. cases,hey are 50% of the they are only out for two of the

days they may be spreading the virus. an asymptomatic individual, they may be spreading and shedding the entire time that they are in the community. days, it may two be six days, or seven days. so when we talk about proportions, 35% better asymptomatic that are in the more of ans much opportunity of transmission than somebody who is getting sick and is only out in the community for two days. and so we know that we have to find both. and we have been working with the states about what proactive surveillance it would look like in this case to find people who are asymptomatic. but it is also why we continue to recommend to the public very clearly, that you cannot tell who is infected. announcer: "washington jounral" continues. host: we are back with andy serwer, the editor and chief of

yahoo! finance, and we will spend the last half hour talking about the future of the restaurant industry. good morning. guest: good morning to you. host: what has been the overall impact of the coronavirus pandemic on the restaurant industry? guest: it has been devastating. right after the cruise lines and airline business, restaurants and bars have been hurt the most. and it is a very different kind of business from the two i mentioned, the cruise ships and airlines, which are very concentrated. with restaurants, i mean, you have millions of restaurants ou t there. of sales forion these companies. family-ownedre with less than 50 employees. and the great majority of them have been closed down. million people who work

in restaurants, up to 15 million have been collecting unemployment insurance already. thehat is a good chunk of nearly 40 million people who have applied for unemployment insurance. so the business has been devastated. of that $900 billion, the businesses estimate they will lose about $300 billion this year. that could be conservative. host: looking at information from the american restaurant association, this puts it in stock terms. of 32.4 billion dollars was the smallest volume since march 2005. however, adjusting for inflation, consumer spending at eating and drinking places plunged to its lowest level in april since 1984. to takeoutnge over

and delivery helped some of these restaurants at all, or is it costing them or to stay open? guest: that has been a big debate. you could argue allowing these companies, or these companies doing curbside service and take is kind of a lifeline, they are on life support. they are limping along. all those kinds of medical metaphors. it is true. on the other hand, you have got fixed cost into variable cost. you have rent and utilities. variable cost would be employees. if you just shut down, it is because of cost. there is a lot of calculus. i speak with restaurant owners going through this, and it speaks to your mindset, if you want to really do this and plow through, people are trying to really stomach this and use the sort of trying to

figure out a way. a lot of people want to maintain their customers. a a lot of customers are trying to help their favorite restaurants by getting takeout. and just keeping a little bit of the business going, so you can see over the hill the promised land. help isw, what type of needed for restaurants to survive this? i know you already brought up all,pe loans, but first of did that help them? did it help them enough? and what should come next? guest: i think everybody agrees that it has not been enough, even politicians. it is just so much money. it is crazy. there are so many restaurants. i talked about the $900 billion and how much of that is going away. and how many people, how many americans work in restaurants.

that is millions of people. yes, the cares act came out and restaurants began applying for the ppp. but, you know, it has run its course. and now we are looking to add more funding to it. there is a bill right now going through congress. they have looked to vote on it, but they were unable to vote on it before the recess this weekend. so some people are suggesting another trillion dollars. and then there all sorts of debates about the length of time for the program. that restaurants are arguing they need this to be extended because it was only an eight week program. what you want to do is keep your employees paid, so you want more time in that. there are nuts and bolts that the industry is arguing about right now, while being for in washington. and the last point, a lot of restaurants are having difficulty actually getting the money, which other small

businesses are contending with as well. going through the bank, making sure that they are getting paid and cutting through the paperwork. one more point i should add, we have seen larger restaurant chains take the money, because if you do a small amount of business at a specific restaurant, you are eligible to get this money through the smaller business portion of the ppp cares act. you saw shake shack, which initially took the money, return the money back because it is such a large, national chain and a public company that should be able to get money from other sources. host: let's let our viewers take part in the conversation. we will open up regional lines again. if you are in the eastern and central time zone and you want to talk about the future of the restaurant industry, we want you to call at (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain and

pacific time zones, and you want to talk about the restaurant industry, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. and we are going to open up a special line, i really want to hear from the restaurant owners and workers. we want to know what is going on at your place. we want to know how you are surviving. have you had to close down? are you reopening? a special line for restaurant owners and workers. that will be (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. and we are always reading on social media on twitter and on facebook. facebook.com/c-span. there are a lot of restaurant customers, like myself, who said we are not going to dine in again until we are sure we are going to be safe. how can restaurant owners

convince diners like me to come back into their places of business and make sure that we are going to be confident that we will be safe? guest: excellent question. let me speak to what is going on in the country a little bit. politically, you are seeing a lot of high-profile events on tv where protesters are in the state capitals, and in front of restaurants in some instances, saying take america back, open up america, we want our freedom. there are people who have that sentiment. and it is a legitimate perspective. that's not the majority of the country. in the majority, people are cautious, they want to take things slowly and polls show us that people on both sides of the counter, restaurant workers and

owners and customers, want to take it slow. there is no reason to rush back jowl witheek to people you do not know over a hamburger you can get very takeout. for takeout. i want to get on my soapbox for a moment. this has been really difficult if you own a small business or restaurant. i really feel for those people. the customers, i feel a little bit less sympathetic for. i am reading a book about world war ii. i am on the coast of maine. look people had to go through for world war ii, years of sacrifice. if you cannot go to your restaurant for a few months, maybe even six months, it is not that big of a deal. if your sentiment is i want to go to help my friends and neighbors who run the restaurant, support that business, right on. so do takeout and we for things to come back. now, you are starting to see

restaurants in certain states reopen. in north carolina, the state reopened in certain places yesterday. and what that means is the tables are six feet apart, servers wearing masks, and a sanitizer at every table, constant cleaning of public spaces, mostly dining outside. that is what is going on in north carolina. washington state, same thing. 50% capacity, six feet apart. and you are straining to see counties in the western part of the state, also the rural areas, not king county with seattle -- there's usually a four phase reopening plan. so this is kind of a phase two. we will see. we will see if this will lead to another surge of the coronavirus. if it doesn't, more counties it will open up and we will move on to phase three. but people need to understand, it is just not worth it to be

able to sit at a restaurant if you were going to get people around you sick, or if you are going to get sick. and people need to know that. host: let's bring in the viewers. we will start with lou from california. he works in a restaurant. caller: good morning. napa. at a restaurant in and i'm a professional accordionist. i have been there -- good mo rning. host: we can hear you. caller: i am a professional accordionist. i have been with the restaurant for 18 years. and we opened up our dining room and patio on wednesday of this past week in downtown napa. and we are doing real good. during the pandemic, we were orders to go only. the curbside service or

delivery. and like i say, we are back in business. business. and i start back on wednesday night. we all have masks. and everything is to the "t." so i am excited to be back at the restaurant. guest: that is a great story. i am so glad to hear that. i know the city of napa. i have not been to that restaurant. napa is a pitiful part of the country. isn't that great to hear that kind of story, that here is a restaurant reopening and the employees, even the accordionist will be back next week. people are wearing masks and respecting each other. it sounds like there is distancing going on. let's take things slow like that. i am glad to hear that he was able to keep his job, and i am sure there was a lot hardship in

those two months. but goodness knows it is worth it. show 60% of new restaurants fail in their first year. that was before the pandemic. what is going to be the impact on getting new restaurants, mom and pop and chain restaurants open in the future post pandemic? guest: it will be really rough. it is a brutal business to begin with. and people come into this business and they say, i want to open up a little restaurant. it is not so easy. on the one hand, it is a curious thing because most people fail, they do not understand what it takes. obviously, it is grueling. you have to be there every day. even if you are closed, you know, sunday, you can take a sunday off but the margins will not be as good. so there is that. on the other hand, the magic of a restaurant in the restaurant

business, and bars too is if you have a good idea -- this is the old ceiling -- saying about new york city, there is always room for a good restaurant. because if you come up with a plus idea, that is a huge right there. there is a strategy and execution. you have to have a great idea and then there is the execution, which includes location, managing your payroll, which includes a your food. -- sourcing your food. there is a lot to it. the coronavirus will wipe out a lot of restaurants. it may be the case that new restaurants are founded coming out of this disaster, that somebody starts a taco truck that does delivery, curbside and does really well and holy smoke, they will get funding and become the next great restaurant. the one thing that concerns me is the big will survive, the

chains that we talked about that can access the capital markets, they have such a huge advantage. and we will lose the mom and pop stores, the 99% of the restaurants. so we will lose regional authenticity and it we will just have national chains. that is an exaggeration, but they will be advantage. and that is too bad because we could lose at some of our regional flavorings, pun intended, which we are kind of under assault by the national chains, well, before we went into this. host: let's talk to carrie, a restaurant owner in maryland. caller: good morning. it is actually terri. i really appreciate you guys doing this segment on restaurant owners, especially small businesses. my husband and i bought a restaurant about nine months ago. it just started to go up. we just started to get into the rhythm. it is a live music, bar venue. and then covid-19 happened.

so trying to do the best we can for our employees. we applied for the paycheck protection program. and we got approved and we received the money. however, and i think everybody realizes how this got rolled out from the federal government, i now get the money. and i have to start paying my employees. with that money, today, for the next eight weeks. let does not do me any good because i am not open. i need that money once i open again. when i am trying to ramp up my business again using social distancing and using a smaller amount of people. is there any kind of thing on the horizon in d.c., or somewhere, i heard they want to do another stimulus for the paycheck protection plan to maybe dish out some more. but i am going to have to return this money. i cannot bring my employees

back, take them off unemployment where they are making more money, and force them out of unemployment when they take it. is there something coming that would say, no, keep the money and hold on to it until they open -- you open. then i will need that salary because i will have a minimum amount of people coming in, less income but the ability to pay my staff. guest: if i can jump in, that is exactly some of the problems we have been hearing about across-the-board. and the intention i think of the ppp program where the money had to be paid to the employees over eight weeks, obviously was, that will do the greatest amount of good. in other words, these people, rather than just giving it to you, just one person, we will give it to all of these people. well, there was not a lot of thinking that went into it. yes, there is unemployment for those people on the one hand. although not everybody is eligible in terms of restaurant

employees. so this may be was better in that sense. but to your point, what the politicians have discovered is that exactly the problem you're describing, which is, then where is my capital to reopen? billi mentioned in the new that is in congress right now being hashed out, that is specifically a part of the new legislation, which is these restaurants need actual capital because when we start to not flip the switch, because it will not be binary, but we will slowly open depending on the state you are in -- are you able to open at all? host: she has already moved on. guest: ok, so anyway, you can see that it is complicated. the bigger point is it is a very complicated situation. and having the federal government just going boom with a large amount of money is good, but all of a sudden when you get

to the front lines of the business it is like, that does not quite fit. host: we have a question from one of our social media followers, who wants to know, what do you think or under what conditions should restaurants returned to 100% capacity? guest: yeah, the governors of the states have these plans and a lot of it has to do with the flattening of the curve. they are looking at real data and they are trying to see when the rate of new cases is starting to decline and they are correlating the programs with that type of thing. and that is actually being calibrated on new data coming in, so as they open into phase one and two, which is to say the 50% reopening of restaurants -- we will stick with restaurants -- and the six feet apart, then they see if there is going to be a new wave that has hit the

state or specifically counties where they have gone into a phase two. if they start to see the curve trend up again, they will rule -- roll back to phase one. if they see the curve flat and they will go to the next phase. i would anticipate in certain counties in the u.s., we could get to a phase four fairly quickly. they have to be pretty isolated and rural places without any regional spread there. and also fairly isolated with not a lot of people coming in and out. host: let's get a few more callers in. we will start with susan: from massachusetts -- calling from massachusetts. caller: hi, what you said about the world war ii generation, my father was part of that. and a bunch of different families had all moved in together into a baltimore rowhouse because of the

depression, then they lost or their family business to prohibition. so i can attest that what my parents went through is frankly nothing compared to this. although this is brutal. aboutam very concerned the future of retail and in the restaurant business, especially independent restaurants and bars, for the next four or five years. i think it will be just obliteration of such a major part of our economy. and may betake out moving to outside dining -- i am a new englander. i will sit outside in a parka and have a meal outside if i have to, but i am so frightened. and i was a member of the -- gang, i believe in universal bubble -- public income. and when i see these crazy

mismanaged loan packages, i am wondering, given the looming end of retail as we know it, the weth of malls, whether should consider moving toward universal basic income. love andrew -- i yang, humanity forwarded. host: go ahead and respond. guest: it is great to hear somebody talk about the yang gang. i find it interesting, so thank you for talking about that. this is where everybody would get a guaranteed payment from the government. people laugh about this, or they left about a year or so ago. this is ridiculous, this is socialism. they are not laughing anymore. essentially, what we are doing right now is a form of universal basic income, although to what the caller said, it is extremely inefficient.

so why not just get down to it and really start paying people directly from the government. oh, that is terrible, it will make people not behave well. it will make people survive and it will help the economy. so i think that is something worth thinking about. bars, as restaurants and i do not disagree. i think that these places are under a tremendous amount of pressure. and it will be years going forward. one thing we have not talked about his people really being very innovative. and that involves municipalities, too. i am up here in maine. rocklin is closing down the main street, so they can expand the dining outside. so closing it off the cars, so it becomes pedestrian only. so you are hearing about innovative programs. what else can restaurants and ensure that to these businesses stay open and people stay safe?

could we turn an old warehouse that is not being used into a municipal place, restaurants with wide social distancing. what else? shouldn't we do universal basic income? all these things. we need a tremendous amount of thinking. host: let's get one more before the end of the show. aron inll be a philadelphia. caller: good morning. hi, thank you for having me. host: go ahead. a quicki wanted to have comment. since my restaurant has been closed at the beginning of march, not only have i been trying to reach out to my tryingte staff, but also to get in contact with not just my staff, but also their families. thinkof times, i

especially now what is overlooked is the ramifications. not just the restaurant employees, but how it trickles down to the rest of our economy. aviously, with money being little bit short right now and us finding different ways to be able to socially distance, especially once we reopen, to be safe and able to make a living, i think that there has to be more plans in place, especially when it comes to a restaurant. heard somebody before talk about how we are in limbo right now from a dying industry, with everybody using hub, otherrub platforms we can get meals delivered to your door. i think that there are millions of people who are going to

suffer. and they are not going to be able to provide some of the basic things that they had been providing for for maybe 20 or 30 years. host: we have to cut it off. let see if you can respond. is the restaurant industry a dying industry? guest: no, it is an industry under siege. it is temporary. it is under a lot of pain interest right now. people who persevere will survive. big companies will survive a little bit easier than the small ones, unfortunately. so the small ones have to try super hard and they need help from the government. i think it will change the business dramatically. but if people keep their nose to the grind stone and have faith and work hard, and get help, i think that >> we would like to thank andy, editor in chief of yahoo! finance for talking about the future of the restaurant industry. thank you.

and we would like to thank all of you, our callers, viewers, social media followers, for being with us for another "washington journal. " stay safe, everyone. ♪ >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events from the presidential primaries through the impeachment process and now the federal response to the coronavirus.

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and miami mayor francis suarez. governor ricketts spoke about hospital capacity and outbreaks at meatpacking plants. planssuarez discussed his to reopen miami's beaches and restaurants. this is 45 minutes. >> i think it does give people hope and doctors hope too.