alexander discusses drug and alcohol addiction. we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ good morning and welcome to "washington journal." the police officer who pressed george floyd has been arrested. the national guard was called out as violence broke out as this country struggles with the racial injustice and police violence all during the middle of a pandemic and economic downturn. what do you think about the former police officer being charged with murder in the death of george floyd? we are going to open regional lines. that means if you are in the eastern or central time zones,

we want you to call (202-748-8000). if you are mountain and pacific time zones, your number is (202-748-8001). we are opening a special line this morning for people who live in minneapolis. we want to hear directly from you so your telephone number is going to be (202-748-8002). keep in mind you can always text your opinion at (202-748-8003). you can always reach us on social media on twitter and facebook. things are still moving around the country and we are going to go directly to a local newspaper to get the most recent information.

"keeping violent contempt on a curfew and widespread please for peace they rampage across minneapolis for a fourth night creating unprecedented havoc as they set towers on fire, vandalized, a shot of police toicers, all in the response a death of an unarmed black man under a white police officer's knee on monday. by all accounts, law enforcement presence was almost undetectable as the violence rapidly accelerated until just before midnight into early saturday, when hundreds of police officers, state troopers and national guard troops, some in armored vehicles, fanned out into trouble areas confronting writers with mass force, tear and orders to disperse via bullhorn. those efforts had visibly little impact for much of the night,

and questions world among citizens and politicians about how such a dire situation could have developed in a long, peaceable, progressive old city. the police officer suspected in the death of george floyd who detained a black man on suspicion of using a counterfeit bill. mayor held ais news conference. he began by saying he talked to the family and they agreed what was happening in minneapolis was horrific and counterproductive. this is not grieving. this is not making a statement about an injustice that we fully acknowledge needs to be fixed. z said. dangerous, wal

walz said the sure number has made it impossible to make arrests. the capacity to be able to do offensive action was great the diminished by the sheer scope and seemingly organize nature of the assault. " we want to know what you think about the arrest of the police officer in minneapolis and the unrest going on around the nation. we are going to go straight to our lines and we will start with steve who is calling from missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. this police officer -- i think he had 18 reprimands on his record. i am wondering how he was not fired long ago.

i am a 59-year-old white guy and stand by the protest, but we a rigged system with the vote. we have voter suppression. notlast two republicans did win the majority of votes. when you have a system where the most votes do not win we have a problem. we have got a racist in the white house and that is the whole republican party. a lot of this started during the drug war and it has just been going on for a lot of years. a'll, but we have got to vote these republicans out of office and maybe then we can weed out the democrats. you have a safe and nice day. thank you. host: michelle calling from

maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i absolutely agree with the arrest and it is not enough. i think the other officers need to be arrested as well. although i do not agree -- the protests are a prickly thing. unless there is a financial loss to the city on these matters nothing will change. marching very peacefully is nice, but it is not going to move people to action. attorney made an , minneapolis made an arrest because there was looting and the financial loss to the area. target andtions, the big box stores that were harmed and burned, they need to rise up in these municipalities and

jurisdictions and tell the city councils and police departments that you need to address issues on your force that have problems. this man had 18 complaints against him. if big corporations said, you need to address your issues. we do not want to be in the position where our stores alluded, where we are suffering , where we are suffering financial loss, then change will come about. musicalities will otherwise not change. host: glenn is calling from florida. caller: hello? host: you are on air. go ahead. caller: my comment is the police

officer got the lesser charge. they gave him third-degree murder which is the lowest charge you can have. it only carries a maximum sentence of 25 years. they have already started to plea down or prove he did not justify to kill this person. the medical examiner said based on the medical history of george floyd the reason why he died was not because he had a knee in his neck, but he had a pre-existing condition and that is what caused him to die. they've already started the process of trying to convince ofple that he did not die the knee and it was because of the condition. i don't understand why people are talking about business is losing money.

why can't we talk about the racism of white people that causes the things that happen in the first place? host: mary calling from virginia. good morning. caller: i'm sorry race relations, as they are for the city, and i hope the police department will learn and train sometimes they get afraid when they are going to be overpowered by the person. -- theyhe policeman have to make a quick decision in a split second. thank you. host: kevin calling from chicago, illinois. just nothe issue is inherent racism and a bigoted

system the other part is the contracts municipalities have with the police unit. the trick to the whole thing is, one, you have got to address racism, and you have to change the police union contracts. these contracts give them such limited immunity that unless you address the inequity you are going to keep seeing this. you are going to keep seeing these types of charges. fuelingcial media is change in progress which is lawyersut these amateur and pathologists and medical examiners do not know the difference between state of mind and what is a complete autopsy report and per luminary findings. it is fueling angst when it should be, stop for a minute,

step back, and let people do this for a living to give you more background rather than just reacting. earlier on friday minnesota governor tim walz held a conference after mass protests erupted earlier on thursday. he discussed upcoming justice from the actions of the officers involved. here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> it is time for us to clean our streets. it is time to execute today in a way that shows respect and dignity. i am going to ask for a lot of help today of those folks who want to see it. it is my expectation that justice for the officers involved will be swift, that it will come in a timely manner, that it will be fair. that is what we have asked for. i have been in contact with the confident thatm

those very things i just said will happen. bca to continue at the do a fair, full, and swift gathering of all the evidence notlved, but i reiterate all of that is done in every case. swift justice be carried out. host: let's see what some social media followers are saying about the protests and riots in the arrest. here's one comment that says, all the cops should be arrested. the one kneeling on floyd's back is just as comfortable as the one who neal dunn his neck. this tweet says, this is sad.

they could sibley go back to their home afterward and others may not have a home to go back to after it is burned down. meaner says, i think you they justify the cause. this is all about carrying on their own movements. third-degree does not come close to justice. second degree at the very least. corner already in cover-up mode. last, stop complaining about rights. those give you eight hour workdays, gay rights, and free speech. let's go back to the phone lines and see what is happening. we talked to steve calling from new jersey. caller: thank you for having me. just saw some of the video and

there's something about how the wearingrs are dressed black and red clothing. they remind me of anarchists. if i could touch on social justice, someone has to explain to me how social justice justifies breaking into a korean jewelry store, liquor store, or target. , for all those young black females in the world who are worried about op --killed by a white cut oline fromo to m wisconsin. caller: all those cops should get first-degree murder. for the rioters destroying their

own cities, it is a terrible thing. i'm sorry. they should catch these people and make them pay. callingrol: fro from minneapolis. what are you seeing right now? caller: i just got up and i'm doing my report for work, but i just wanted to say a lot of things about the third precinct. they have had problems with the african community for years. things indone terms of abusing african-american men and planting drugs in their cars and on them and arresting them to send them to jail. all of those cops need to be arrested. everyone sees the evidence

before them. the riots should not be. a lot of people are coming from other places, not the people who live here or our local people. there is nothing wrong with doing a peaceful protest. i remember those peaceful ones with dr. king. also, the ministers need to step up and get in the trenches and become true leaders. i do not see them out there in the trenches and that is where they need to be. host: are you still supporting ?he mayor and governor do you think they are doing everything they can do? caller: absolutely they are doing everything they can to stop this, but this violence is not coming from local people. it is coming from people who have been planted here and paid to come here to do these things. the st. paulo to

pioneer press who is reporting that even more national guard is going to be arriving in minneapolis. guard isonal activating another 1000 soldiers to join the 500 called up. that would be the largest peacetime force ever assembled in minnesota. the pentagon took the rare step friday of ordering the army to put several active duty u.s. military police units on the ready to deploy to minneapolis. the general said the option remained on the table. the troublemakers, whom heem he termed writers, had grown more dangerous. harrington said there was evidence of outside agitators arriving in minneapolis to stoke unrest.

two miles to the east of the fifth precinct protesters torched the third precinct police station that was abandoned by police and vandalized businesses. saturday another large fire was burning in the vicinity of the third precinct." we want to know what you think about what is going on in minneapolis. first, let us go to attorney mike freeman who announced charges against the police officer. [video clip] >> i'm here to announce that derek chauvin is in custody. he has been charged by the attorney's office with murder and manslaughter. questions? reporter: what form of murder?

>> he has been charged with third-degree murder. we are reviewing the evidence. there may be subsequent charges later. i failed to share with you a detailed complaint will be made to you this afternoon. i did not want to wait to share the news as he is in custody. reporter: what about the other three officers? >> the investigation is ongoing. we felt it appropriate to focus on the most dangerous perpetrator. moved say this case has with extraordinary speed. this conduct, this criminal action, took place monday evening. 1:00 onaking to you at friday which is less than four days. we have never charged a case in that kind of timeframe and we

can only charge a case when we have significant evidence. host: let's go back to the phone lines and talk to sandra who is calling from orlando, florida. caller: hi. i am addressing my comment not just at the c-span audience but specifically our president, are governors, and mayors. your job is not just a comment or describe the crisis. it andbs are to stop here is how you do it in five words or less. ,he first two words are laughing gas. do not use tear gas. withhem roll in the aisles laughing gas, it is more humane. fire fighter planes. whenber in california

we had the flames? use those to douse the flames. the last word is tanks. use the tanks to protect the law enforcement officers. have them go out in tanks. host: we go to reginald calling from new orleans, louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i live in th new orleans and we had katrina, urban city, it is the oldest city in the world. you can walk around with drinks and alcohol. you and ifcers see you are being belligerent, he can just handcuff you.

this guy was on the ground. if he is on the ground, why can't you take your hand and handcuff it? murder andemeditated for them to say they are charging him with third-degree it is ayou know, fallacy. you see that as a black individual, he is not armed, he is not trying to do nothing. whatever he did it was a misdemeanor. when you see a misdemeanor we are not talking about a felony. is not robbing a bank, he did not have a gun. i have to tell minnesota they arrested randy moss with the vikings because he was smoking marijuana.

it is a situation where the police officers look at your , if you have an weed,your car smells like whatever. a black guy driving a mercedes-benz and now you're going to stop him because you feel like he's a threat. host: we talked to patricia calling from minneapolis. what are you seeing right now? caller: a completely inept governor and mayor. there were cameras or local seeions and we could not any national guard. there were no police. they let them loot, vern

burn, partying. amy klobuchar left that officer, vin, off the hook. where she? is she? if she had taken care of him, none of this would've happened. minneapolis is being destroyed and the governor does not know what he is doing. making plans about and talking and we have got a plan. you could not find the national guard. they left. plus, the governor and states a es a curfew andt does not enforce it? 170 buildings and businesses have been burned and looted.

it is ridiculous. democrats. nasa in other news the spacex crew has been rescheduled for today. i'm going to read a little bit from the wall street journal about what is going on. "elon musk's spacex will try again to launch astronauts into orbit days after whether forced it to scrub the flight. if mother nature cooperates and preparations proceed as smoothly as they did on wednesday, the falcon nine rocket is scheduled eastern fromt 3:22 the kennedy space center. astronautseran ash

circling 250 miles above the earth. said theadministrator planned launch may be affected by weather. on friday, he told them what had to be considered for a lunch. -- for ahat he said launch. here's what he said. [video clip] >> the wind is going to be east to west. of the storm systems are going to be on the west coast. the weather looks like it is going to be fantastic. the problem is that when it is , we are going to have astronauts landing on land and that is not an option. we are balancing a lot of things. we are also balancing the time of day we launch.

we have to consider the sleep cycles of the crew to make sure they are not in the midst of a critical portion of the flight when they have been without sleep for 24 hours. that will not happen because we are managing for that, but it is also the sleep cycles on the international space station and all of these things that we are balancing. host: i want to remind you we will have coverage of the dragon live at 11 a.m. we are going to simulcast the launch. 3:22an see that launch at eastern on c-span, c-span.org, and the free radio app. lets go back to the phone lines tav calling from

minneapolis. caller: can you hear me ok? host: we can hear you. caller: i grew up in south minneapolis just blocks away from mr. floyd's death and my heart is breaking. i am really disappointed in the other call from minneapolis. it was patricia who said this is about the democrats. i think the mayor and governor have been a bit overwhelmed. we have insanity in the city right now. i do hope there is additional support that can come into the city this weekend. i will say it is very disappointing to see that many ownedsses are minority and people who are struggling. these are the businesses really

being impacted and it is really interesting these are not the high income neighborhoods. these are where folks are working class and struggling. arizona. calling from caller: good morning. my question is wise it being addressed that, when he was told to stop, he did not stop? host: who is that he you are talking about? caller: the poor gentleman who lost his life. any other person who gets arrested and winds up having an assault charge against an officer. you frequently see the police officers tell them to stop, get down, and they refuse to do what law enforcement is telling them to do. they have no respect. host: where did you see the

george floyd did not stop and he was told to? caller: it is not him exactly. it is anybody getting arrested and when they do not comply with what law enforcement officers are telling them to do the officers get a bit rougher to get them to comply with the request. we go to cecil calling from texas. caller: good morning. my major point is the bad officers that do things like this are putting the good officers' lives in danger. they had nothing to do with this, but they get targeted just as well as the rest of the police. and you'vern around got people protesting and looting. you're putting people out of business, out of work, you do

not need to burn places down. protest about what you are therefore. you do not need to burn buildings down. these politicians have their own agendas. it does not matter if it is democrat or republican. they hide or tell us what they want us to do, yet they are trying to do jobs and fight amongst each other. eugene calling from connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. problem been a major for police brutality. i have been a victim. and a victims old of police brutality. i am not a street person. host: go ahead. we have a system that is

very egregious on us. the police do not look at us as people. they look at us as perpetrators. they do not help us. communitiesate our with slander and with everything else they can throw at us. the whole system needs to be overturned. if we have got to burn a place down, we will burn it down and build it back up. it needs to be burned down and built back up. host: yesterday during a discussion at the white house with industry executives about reopening the country president trump spoke of the death of george floyd. here is what he had to say. [video clip] our deepest express condolences and heartfelt sympathy to the family of george floyd. event,rible

terrible thing that happened. i asked that the expedite the investigation into his death and do as quickly as absolutely possible. it is a local situation, but we are making it into a federal situation and it is a terrible thing. and it is what we saw very hard to conceive of anything other than what we did see. it should never happen. it should never be allowed to happen, i thing like that, but we are determined justice be served. family to members of the , terrific people, and we will be reporting as time goes by. host: let's look at some social about what is going on in minneapolis. here's a text that says, the tragic death did not have to

happen. i support the arrest of the officer, but at the same time there must be civility and no violence. that just worsens the situation. here's another text that says, the police chief should be fired. these officers had multiple complaint against them and were still on the force. here's a facebook comment that says, when the protesters went home the rioters stayed. there is a difference maybe. let's go back to the phone lines and talk to anna from texas. we are going to look at some headlines from newspapers around the nation to see how different organizations are reporting. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: minnesota has had a lot of strong politicians. outbursts andese

then nothing happens. the voters should vote for your local government as well as your national government and that is what a lot of people do not do. i want to give a shout out to hall,ief of police, renee who came to dallas. my grandson is a police officer and he is not a bad police officer. this police chief, when she came here and she was resisting because she changed the culture of the police department. she said i do not need 10 assistants. you need to be on the street. she changed the program. you cannot teach anybody about policing the rights of people in six months so she changed that. tellnight she stood toe to

with protesters and said to them, you better not throw another rocket my officers. then they went to the police ce station and she said i do not mind you protesting, it is your right to protest, but you do not need to be abusing people. you need to be out there voting. that is what minorities do not understand. i voted for the president, but did you vote for the mayor? from jim is calling georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. is first thing i want to say shame on the police departments administration for having this guy on the force. complaints there is no excuse for him to be on the force with that kind of

record. it so much to damage racial relations. a lot i would like to know. this guy was passing counterfeit bills and he probably did not know. the guy calls the cops on him and it just blows up. it is a credit to our whocan-american community is not risen up into a shooting war over this. say how horrible, how miserable this guy is and i hope they throw him under the jail. from southcalling dakota. good morning. caller: i used to live in that neighborhood and my two children still live less than 10 minutes

from there. years ago when we were just out of the service i lived with a couple of minneapolis cops. it was amazing to me that the other three cops stood there and watched that guy kill that guy. it is the instigators and democratic party that are pushing this. just look at what maxine waters says. the rest of them are blaming the president they have been trying to destroy for the last two years. host: jeremy is calling from wisconsin. good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. i'm listening to you on the radio. i am interested in your tie

choice today. i am not trying to skirt any of the deeper issues here specifically the concepts of understanding. i would like to address the specific caller from arizona where she brought up he was being addressed to stop and he did not. the policereason -- can apply pressure to your body respondsinstinctually so your body cannot stop. they develop these tricks and they are well known.

is not just some ignorant person saying this. you can go into the communities and talk about the tricks the officers use. when they apply pressure your soy instinctually responds you cannot stop. it is impossible. thank you. host: we go to howard calling from new york. good morning. caller: thank you. i think people love this country because they love this country, but it does not love them. it took looking at this video of a man crying for his mother who had been dead for two years with three officers watched, for people to finally see. you can take the blue pill to live in a fantasy or you can see

the truth with the red pill. i think the blue pill was forced on people. we did not want to believe that the country hates us, but when we saw that officer kill that -- there are aod lot of other police that are good, but not the ones there. we did not want to come to this realization, but this man forced us to see the truth. you cannot unring that bell. and we needges now to be judged by black people because we cannot have people uries who choke us to death. if this man had shot him in the head three times, it would have been more humane. we are at a point where there may be no going back. host: pamela calling from

maryland. caller: thank you for taking my call. there is something systemically wrong with police in this country. the patterns, the practices, and the policy allows the killing of innocent, unarmed, handcuffed, on the ground, black men and other individuals. you saw that table like i did. what we witnessed was a murder on tape. the cop put his knee on the neck of george floyd after he died. that man should have never been allowed to stand the force. he was the seniormost cop. that is where the others did not respond. ne, he had 18li complaints. he killed one person before and to others. that man should have never been

allowed to remain on the force and because he was that points out the problems with policing, police unions, the grand jury system, the medical examiner wants to build a case the george floyd had underlying conditions and that's what led to his death. what led to his death was the knee on his neck. he had the underlying conditions before the knee on his neck. host: greg calling from texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i hope you don't cut me short. i hope you keep going to the end because a lot of people need to express themselves. with this is is what i have experienced. are you there?

host: i think we lost greg. georgia.alling from caller: good morning. as a minister and a retired man that lostas a personer to a caucasian here is the key to the whole thing. the world has forgotten how to love your brothers and sisters. i feel for the family, i really do. i experienced when a white man killed my brother, ran him off in road, and my brother fell the middle of an asphalt road and busted his own inside.

answer and ie, prayed. god spoke to me and said how can you say you love jesus and hate the one you see everyday? it is impossible. we've got to learn our brothers and sisters. level cover all hate. they areother news pushing the supreme court to broadcast sessions on live audio and perhaps move to video. here is a little bit of that. senatoress release chuck grassley and patrick lahey, who are members of the senate judiciary committee, called the supreme court to provide live audio of the oral arguments in the future even

after the coronavirus pandemic is over. the senators also requested the courts consider further steps of live video. " i am going to read a little bit of what they said in the letter to the chief justice john roberts. "by providing live audio access the court demonstrated its technical capability to provide prompt exposure and transparency to the public. from all indications the business before the court was conducted as a dignified and professional manner as is witnessed inside the courtroom under more normal circumstances. maybe this will make the justices realize there is nothing to fear from video. the work they do is a vital part of our system of government and every american should have the opportunity to see how they do it. justice,ou, mr. chief to consider our request and bear

in mind all those who would benefit most, including our democracy itself, from the measurest meaningful of transparency. " the attempt at this supreme court open themselves up to audio and video especially during these times. we are going to go back to our phone lines and we are talking about the minneapolis office being charged with murder and the protests around the united states. we talked to terrence who is calling from honolulu, hawaii. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to say that man was murdered. i have watched all of the video.

second, the city is governed by a bunch of cowards. there is no way those people should have been able to burn down 170 plus buildings. that is not acceptable. they should have been locking otersity down and those lo should have been shot. host: elaine calling from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. to say it was disgusting to watch that video because the policeman was very much in the wrong. what is happening now is worse. dies, butwhen anybody when a black person dies there is always riots. when obama was president and the riots happened in baltimore cops were being shot sitting in their cars. if you watched the

tv last night, they are not interested in this man's death. they have disgraced his death. watching these people going into buildings and stealing stuff and burning things is making our country look worse than ever. from fairview,ng pennsylvania. good morning. caller: when you look at the officer's face he looked like a twisted individual. he looked like he had anger management problems and i would not be surprised if the cops around him were not intimidated. he looks like a hothead. i think they wanted to --e this guy -- i don't know but i bet they wanted to for a long time. the unions control your statehouses, your big cities, and i will bet you they knew if

they had an officer they wanted to let go there would be a union uprising which would cost them their elected seats. i think you see it in your statehouses with high property taxes. they do not want to take on the teachers unions or these fire and police unions. i bet at the core they did want to just charge -- discharge this guy, but it would've cost them their elected seat. that is all had to say. thank you. host: joe biden is also addressing the death of george floyd and what it means for our country. here is what the former vice president had to say. [video clip] >> in weeks like this we see it plainly. we are a country with an open wound and none of us can be turned away, none of us can be silent, no longer can we hear the words i can't breathe.

what martin luther king called the appalling silence of good people. everyday african-americans go about their lives with the constant anxiety and trauma wondering who will be next? imagine if every time your husband or son, wife or daughter left the house, you feared for their safety from bad actors and that police? imagine if you had to have that talk with your child about not asserting your rights, taking the abuse handed out to them just so they could make it home? imagine having the police called on you just for sitting in a printing in airbnb or watching birds? the anger and frustration and exhaustion is undeniable. host: let's check in with social

media followers to see what they are thinking about the officer being charged. "my's one post that says, reaction is why are not rioters being arrested? why are we calling rioters protesters? here's a text that came in that says, if the other officers were not culpable, why were they fired? of course they should be charged. another text says, it is good to hold the offending police officers accountable if you want to fix the problem. what about the supervisors? if they had done their job and removed these officers from the police force none of this would have happened. another text says, a target colluded. people care more about property damage than a black life being taken. text, disappointed it

was third-degree murder. it should have been a tougher sentence. i hope they keep writing until until all- rioting police are charged. ben is calling from mississippi. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make a short comment. rioting and burning a business is not going to change anything. thisll probably talk about for a week or two and then it will be over. the only thing that is going to change this is the people that are perpetrating this. these bad cops are going to have to feel the same way that person killed -- something is

going to have to happen so they can feel the same way. that is the only way it is going to change. thank you. from michigan.ng caller: thank you for taking my call. i just had a suggestion. i don't know if it is been talked about or considered, but lord knows this man's family has been through a lot already. maybe they would be willing to get on the news or something and try and talk to people and say, hey, we don't want all this destructive behavior to try and suppress this. thank you for taking my call. god bless us all. host: jonathan calling from washington, d.c. as a race of people we do not have to riot. we have exactly what the minority group wants.

they want our money. all we have to do is stop spending money. that is my take. ig callings go to s missouri. the intelligence of the country is making me afraid for the children. we see everything that is going on like trump adding fire to the flames with comments and seeing the whole country turn against -- just as silly of a thing that is going on. i am praying for our country. thank you.

host: robin is calling from alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. i don't think it is right for them to do that guy like that. that is a case of police brutality and i don't believe this is a democratic republican thing. this is american citizens against the government. the government against the citizens and i do not think they should hold the census until this pandemic stuff is over. i think this is what has caused the looting. the countrydown, has closed us down and people are rebelling. i don't believe this has got nothing to do with police brutality. america revolting against the government. thank you. have a good day. from melanie is calling

new orleans, louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning. the problem lies with the authorities. they saw the video. why they did not arrest those police before people had to get in the street and protest? they did not do their jobs. protested the people they are going to charge him with third-degree murder. that was first-degree murder. you mean to tell me both policeman could not handle a handicapped man? they had to put a knee in his neck? we go to teresa calling from gary, indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. i used to live in minnesota and i think the man who put his knee

on his neck should go to jail. the other police officer should go to jail because today is 2020. there needs to be a change in this world today. we would like to thank all the callers and viewers and social media followers for that great discussion. we will come back to the situation in minneapolis later on in the show, but coming up we have a discussion on the upcoming hurricane season and how the ongoing pandemic could impact the government response. thomas frank of e&e news will join us and we will later be joined by benjamin chapman of north carolina state university to talk about how food safety is being impacted by the coronavirus pandemic.

stay with us. we will be right back. ♪ >> sign up today for c-span'a tod for wors date straight your email inbox about the coronavirus pandemic, response from state governors, the white house on the reopening of the economy and important updates from congress. sign up today. it is easy, go to c-span.org /connect and enter your email address and the word for word sign a box -- sign up box. >> and his new book "talking to strangers," malcolm gladwell details why he thinks people make accurate judgments about people they do not know. >> you can step on out now. >> i don't have to step out of my car. >> i will drag you out of here. >> you said you will drag me out of my own car? >> she is imprisoned for resisting arrest, and two days later, she hangs herself and

herself -- hangs herself in her cell. a tragic event. and that exchange resell, which goes on and on and on, we saw a small snippet of it, when i first saw that online, that is what i realized i wanted to write about because if you break that exchange down, you see multiple failures of understanding, of empathy, of one million things. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. journal" continues. host: we are back and we will shift to talking about the 2020 hurricane season and how the coronavirus pandemic could affect the government preparations for that hurricane season. we are joined by any staff writer thomas frank --e&e news

writer thomas frank. good morning. hurricane season officially starts on monday. what is the current prediction of the 2020 hurricane season in the united states? isst: the current prediction a likely above average and above normal season. are setting odds for sporting events. they will never say exactly what will happen, but they will say, here is what is most likely what will happen. what they are saying is there is a 60% chance this hurricane season, starting monday, will be above normal, and their best odds are that there will be in this hurricane season six to 10 hurricanes and then three to six of those will be what they call major, meaning category three or higher, which means wins of at of 11100 -- winds

miles-per-hour. prediction. just a two, they do not say where the hurricanes will hit, so there could be hurricane that starts and ends somewhere in the atlantic ocean and does not get close to landfall. just because there is hurricane does not mean there is flooding and damage in the u.s. or any other territory or the caribbean. it is all very uncertain, and has predictedaa above-average seasons before and it has not happened, but they use the best science and data to make the prediction. one other thing i should throw in there is even though hurricane season does not begin of chile until monday -- begin officially until monday, there have already been two named thats, tropical storms, did not hit the u.s. mainland, but they were out there and strong enough that they got

named. there was tropical storm arthur a few weeks ago, and earlier this week, another tropical storm. of atal storms have winds least 39 miles an hour. it is not clear they can cause a lot of damage. they can cause a lot of flooding but not necessarily wind damage. there you are. people have been talking about hurricane season more than i can ever recall. before it actually begins. host: just to make sure all of our viewers are clear, can you tell us the difference between a tropical storm and a hurricane? i heard you say earlier about a category three hurricane. can you tell us the difference between all the categories so we are clear what we are talking about? guest: the difference has to do with one factor only, and that is wind speed. worldists around the

categorize storms based on their windspeed. so when the storm gets to 74 miles-per-hour, and that is what they call maximum sustained winds, so not just a vast but sustained wind, -- so not just a gust, but sustained wind for a while, gets to 74 miles-per-hour, he graduates from a tropical storm to hurricane. as i mentioned, tropical storms have maximum sustained winds of at least 39 miles-per-hour. lo that, you get into tropical depressions -- below that, you get into tropical depressions. you have five categories within hurricanes, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. the larger the number, the more intense the wind. i don't have the exact numbers but i do know a category one hurricane is 74 miles an hour -- i could look it up. i have it on my computer i have it on my computer.

and then a category three is 111 miles an hour. category three is when you start to have some real, real, not just storm surge damage, but wind damage, where you start to have buildings torn apart and trees being broken down. some of thenk of most powerful hurricanes that we have seen in the u.s., like hurricane katrina hit as a category four hurricane and then hurricane andrew miami was category 5 in 1992. hurricane michael, which wiped out the florida panhandle in 2018, was a category 5. get water where you damage and wind damage. host: at what point do the storm start getting names? we will show a list of the upcoming names for the atlantic

hurricane season. at what point do they start getting names? guest: when they become a tropical storm. when they get to 39 miles-per-hour maximum sustained winds. the thing i did not realize is they recycle that list every six years. will retireen noaa a name if there has been a particularly devastating hurricane. the name hurricane katrina has been retired. hurricane harvey i'm sure has been retired. 39 miles an hour, it gets a name. host: i know we have had one so far this year. we have had arthur already named. i believe bertha came up last week. theave already gone through first two before hurricane season began. guest: that is right. how is the united states

government prepared for hurricanes in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic? has anything changed and how we are preparing for hurricanes because of the coronavirus pandemic? guest: absolutely. you are going to see and where you are starting to see the biggest changes is not so much at the federal level because fema likes the saying -- you have probably heard this before -- disaster responses locally executed, state managed and federally supported, meaning, we, the federal government, we will give you money and expertise, but really it is the state and locals who have to do the work on the ground. what you are seeing counties, states, and the american red asked, which provides a lot of shelter space for evacuees, starting to do is they are completely redoing how they do

these, we will call them congregate shelters or massive shelters, where people gather in school gymnasiums, armories, or whatnot. because of social distancing, they are doing planning so that each individual has much more personal space than they usually do. maybe you have been in one of those things. it is a real sort of camping environment with cots lined up two feet apart, and they go on for rows and rows. it is possibly the worst case of the world to try and practice social distancing. that is all being redone. i know the american red cross put out some guidance in april usually, wead of -- allow 50 to 60 square feet of space per person, and we will double back to 110 square feet of space.

of doing buffet style meals were everyone that's in line and gets their food, it will be prepackaged meals so individuals can pick it up and take it back to their space. the big thing that that means is that each individual shelter is going to accommodate many, many fewer feet than it has in the past because if each person gets more square footage, that is fewer people in the same space. what the locals and red cross are doing is looking to try and rooms.el rooms, motel it is no secret the entire hospitality industry has been , and so by the pandemic there are potentially a lot of rooms available for handling evacuees. that is the main shift. one thing fema is doing is putting out guidance to this

effect, and they are putting out -- i think there will be, a, a much different attitude amongst individuals and public officials towards evacuation this year. traditionally, emergency managers have very quick to urge people to evacuate if a hurricane is coming. that is going to change. i think that they are going to be -- public officials are going to be much more inclined to let people shelter-in-place, meaning stay-at-home, or instead of evacuating a shelter, go to a friend or relative who is professional, potential hurricane zone and stay there. in other words, do everything you can to avoid going to shelter. fema is also going to be doing a lot of the damage assessments that they do remotely, so instead of sending its workers

to a community to look at flood damage, it will do the same way you and i are talking here, through remote video links and pickups. -- and hookups. it is going to be a new world, like everything else. host: let's let our viewers join in the conversation. we will open up regional lines for the conversation. we are talking about the atlantic hurricane season and how it is going to be affected by the coronavirus pandemic. if you are in the eastern or central time zones, eastern or central, we want to hear from you at (202)-748-8000. if you are in the mountain and pacific time zones, we want to hear from you at (202)-748-8001. keep in mind you can always text , and we are748-8003 always reading on social media on twitter at, @cspanwj, and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span.

thomas, you were talking a little bit about how the shelters are going to have to change. quote from the acting deputy administrator for resilience at fema in "roll call," who says people should seek shelter with friends, families or hotels in safe places, rather than in evacuation centers. the quote from him goes, "there will never be enough evacuation space, even in a year, we are not dealing with covid-19," c "hurricaneorts, evacuation centers are meant to keep you safe, but not necessarily comfortable. yes, the number of spaces will necessarily be decreased because of the need for social distancing." does that mean people who live in hurricane evacuation zones should make lands now on where they are going to go if a

hurricane comes their way? guest: yes. i cannot say it any more bluntly. -- hurricanentness preparedness is something everyone talks about but no one does. this is a year to do it. it is not have to be a grand plan. i the people thing, oh, hurricane preparedness, i have to do millions of things and they get overwhelmed. really, the best thing to do is figure out you are going to go. find a friend or relative who lives outside of the zone and make plans, and agree that this is where i will go, and the planning might involve saying, you know, we will have to social distancing within someone's house for maybe two weeks. soon it is never, ever to to plan. and think about what you are likely to take with you.

you will probably be out of your house for a week or two weeks, so pack a suitcase, and just put it in the closet and it is there. if you have to go, you are ready to go. sometimes these storms and flooding can happen weekly, and you have to move, but, you know, do not count on the public sector, the county emergency managers, being there to hold your hand because they will be overwhelmed. they already are. host: that was the question i was going to ask next. having lived in south carolina and mississippi, both of whom get hit by hurricanes every now and then, one of the things that always happens is your local or state officials start preparing people to evacuate, and then the storm turns and goes somewhere else, so eventually people stop this mean when officials say, it is time to go.

what should that -- should that change this year, or how should we prepare this year considering that in the past, some people have become hard into the idea that they say, well, we should leave, but i'm going to stay because they said we should leave last year and nothing happened? guest: preparation does not mean you have to do a whole lot. prepare in one hour and afternoon, understanding where you are going to go is the biggest thing because at least you will know what your destination is, and, yes, you should do it. you should prepare and plan anyway so you can move quickly, but you also do not have to react. it is, as you say, the hurricane torrents north and hits north

carolina -- turns north and hits north carolina instead of south carolina, it should not make much of a difference. it means you are not executing your plan and you stay there, but if you have to execute the plan, it would not have in a big deal because we made, we are ready to go. i understand the point you're making that these hurricanes turn at the last minute and nobody knows where it is going to go. that is why the planning is important because it is very, exactard to predict the plan for location. hurricane forecasters are good at some and not at others. they are very good at predicting the intensity. and they are not as good, and no offense to them, it is science, but they are not as good as predicting the direction they take. we have all seen them take some interns -- take sudden turns. host: we start with lori calling

from amer, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. regards to then federal government being ready to help in hurricane season. governmentederal standing back from any help anybody might need. we are still paying taxes. nobody wants to help the people. i would like to see the beginning of the hurricane afterwards in texas, i wanted to see how they recovered and were they good? what were they lacking? does everybody have their homes back? the volunteers go out and help, which is great. that is what we do, we help each when the federal government cannot wrap around estates and assist them -- around the states and a system,

while they are still collecting our taxes, and our infrastructure is falling apart, we are falling behind other countries and it scares me. host: go ahead and respond, thomas. guest: let me use this point to channel something that fema says all the time. emergency response is not a federal responsibility. i know people look to the federal government, but really, if you are in pennsylvania, there is an emergency management agency in your county has an emergency management agency. those are the groups that need to be leading any emergency response, any disaster recovery. fema is there as a backstop. fema is primarily a check renegade. most.oes write checks the the states and counties then do the work to fix roads and bridges, but really, the work, the repair and the recovery,

that is a local responsibility, as it should be. this is not something i think the federal government should be involved in going around to all 3000 counties in the u.s. and few officials -- fema officials have said we are not 911 911 is 911. i understand fema also takes the brunt of many criticism, but really there are state and local agencies that have played a part in all of this. host: like the previous caller said, there is normally a huge volunteer response after a hurricane. can we expect to see that same kind of response in the middle of a coronavirus pandemic? guest: i am glad the caller brought it up because that is another area of concern. knows, but itbody is assumed people would like to get out and volunteer because so

much of the disaster recovery work involves congregate activity. people standing tightly together, handing out, supplies, or water and stuff. that is a real concern. i think a lot of this work is going to be done much more remotely. i was listening to a call a couple of days ago from utility company talking about what will they do differently when a hurricane strikes and the power gets knocked out? they are making plans so that the workers, instead of gathering at the same site and getting their assignments of going here and fixing that, they will get them remotely. you will see a lot of that, a lot of the recovery and relief efforts are going to be done remotely so people are going to instead of driving to the anding lot and school meeting with someone, there'll just be a big stack of meals

waiting for people to grab. host: one of our social media followers has a russian about something we keep hearing about every hurricane season. that is the difference between -- has a question about something we keep hearing about every hurricane season. that is the difference between the models out of the united states and european models. what are the european models for this hurricane season? more accuratelly and fema not much help. this viewer said they were in charlie and irma. is there a european model for predicting this year's hurricane season? guest: there is, and you are going to ask me what it is, and i'm not to have the answer. there are probably a dozen different models of hurricane predictions this year. a lot of universities and science centers do their own model. those reports have been coming out since april. they are all basically saying

the same thing, which is it is either likely to be an above average season. the distinctions between the different models are all fairly nuanced. models case, the european , the one done by your a lot of state -- colorado state university and penn state university, they are saying mostly the same, it is likely to be a top season. host: let's go to dylan calling from sturgis, south dakota. caller: good morning. i'm out here in sturgis. we are really blessed. we don't have to worry about hurricanes or anything but the bike rally in august spreading the virus all over. but i appreciate what you folks , and god bless america and their disabled veterans from

vietnam. this madness that is going on is just crazy. i just wish the lord would step in. host: thomas, go ahead. guest: i was going to say something. thanks for calling from south dakota. it is true or not and hurricane zone but you are in a flood zone. that is one of the things. there are natural disasters everywhere in the country these days, and one story overlooked is the amount of bloody occurring -- amount of flooding occurring. river, in south dakota, and the james river in the dakotas, they have been at flood stage for a year or more. even south dakota may seem safe, but every state and county has its own vulnerability, whether it is hurricanes, tornadoes, or river flooding.

anyway, so stay safe and away from the rivers and be in south dakota. host: thomas, one of the things we saw during this coronavirus pandemic was questions about whether states and local officials have the right to tell people to stay-at-home, which brings up the question of, do state and local officials have the right to make you evacuate when a hurricane is written in your area? what is -- when a hurricane is threatening your area? is, yes, theywer have the legal authority to issue an evacuation order that has legal consequences for those who disobey it. it is like any law. the state has a right to give you a parking ticket if you part in front of a fire hydrant. that is not mean you cannot park there, it just means there are penalties if you do. every state has the authority to issue an evacuation order. thequestion is what are

consequences for violating the evacuation order, and what are the enforcements? the answer is, generally speaking, not much. it is not like police go around arresting people who do not follow evacuation orders for a hurricane. rightis certainly a legal to issue an evacuation order. .here could be penalties usually they will be civil penalties. it isn't really a crime. when a hurricane is coming, people are focused mostly on safety, not giving civil tickets for failing to evacuate. host: let's go to another caller . robert from atlanta, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. first, i would like to say thank you to all of the c-span hosts. you folks are saints for dealing with some of the crazies who calling.

the point i wanted to make was generally visiting to the last segment and now this segment, it occurred to me that i hope the lesson from some of this is that we need competent government. i know your guest is not want to talk about politics, and i'm calling to talk about politics. but i think it is important to reflect on whether this suggests we need competent government and what it says about those who want to tear down government or deconstructed or whatever word is needed to be used. those are my thoughts for today. hope everyone has a great day, despite what is going on. guest: i think that is a great point. i appreciate the caller making it. theou look worldwide at stability of countries, one of the first things people look at his governance. how functional is the government?

whereou look at countries there is a lot of instability, poverty and famine and so forth, those are the ones that do not have good governance structure. the caller is right, it is absolutely important to have competent government. you know, i am not going to talk politics, was, but fema has undergone a sort of major upgrade since hurricane katrina in 2005. the person in charge of fema right now he spent his career working as the emergency manager in providence, rhode island, where he worked under democrats, ironically. fema is a professional organization. host: we talked about fema, but we have not talked about the national guard and the army corps of engineers and their

preparedness levels for this hurricane season. can you address that real quick? guest: the army corps of engineers, you know, it works on long-term projects. control.rked on flood their projects have not been affected by the coronavirus because when you think about a lot of their work like rebuilding levees, that is solitary work. you don't need to congregate. you are out there, operating equipment. the national guard is another story because right now there are about ready thousand national guard members nationwide deployed throughout the country in states, dealing with the covid pandemic. the question is going to be, what is their availability when hurricanes start to hit? often, governors will call in the national guard to help distribute supplies or maintain order, and the national guard is

being used right now like it never has four. it is a real -- never has before. it is a real good question to see how available they will be. the national guard is not a full-time job at a side for most people. they have jobs, like me and you, and they work as national guard members to the extent they are required by the government. it is sort of a strain on the individual guard members because it means they cannot get there otherwise with their regular job. heavily anden used probably will continue to be used heavily. host: we would like to thank thomas frank of e&e news for being here with us today at previewing this upcoming hurricane season on the land to coast. thank you and stay safe. guest: thanks, jesse. take care. host: coming up, we will go back to our phone lines and return to our original topic, which was

the officer in minneapolis being charged with murder in the protests around the united states. you can see our numbers up there. we especially want to hear from people in minneapolis. we will be right back with your calls. ♪ morning,: this beginning at 11:00 a.m. eastern, c-span has had coverage of the rescheduled launch of the spacex crew dragon. liftoff is scheduled for 3:22 p.m. eastern as they launch to the international space station. watch live on c-span, online at c-span.org, or listen on the free c-span radio app. "washington journal" continues. host: we are back, and we are going to go back to your telephone calls. we are talking about a police officer, former police officer

in minneapolis being arrested and charged with murder for the death of george floyd and the protests that have sprung up around the country, some of which have broken out to violence. we want to know what you think about the arrest and protest going on around the country right now. we will open up regional lines. that means if you are in the eastern or central time zone, we want to hear from you at (202)-748-8000. if you are in the mountain and pacific time zone, we want to hear from you at (202)-748-8001. are in minneapolis, we especially want to hear from the people in minneapolis right now. your telephone number is going to be (202)-748-8002. keep in mind you can always text as at (202)-748-8003. we are always reading on social media on twitter at, @cspanwj, and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span.

there have been a couple of deaths that have happened in the last day or so. here is a tweet from "the global times," that says a 19-year-old man died on friday after an unidentified gunman fired shots at a crowded demonstrators in detroit who were protesting the death of george floyd. breaking news right now that says two federal detective service officers have suffered gunshot wounds during protests friday night in oakland, california. one of the officers has died from his injuries. once again, we are seeing a lot of things happen around the country right now. we want to know what you think about it. let's start with vicki, calling from st. petersburg, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate you taking my call, and thank you for c-span.

i am really sorry about this man who was murdered. i witnessed the video, and i would have tackled him or went up to him. it was unbelievable. no one approached the officer. what is happening now throughout our country and these riots, these are looters. they are not protesting peacefully. they are taking their anger or whatever their lives are right now and they are destroying these cities. i feel for these business owners that are just making by. they are not honoring this man who has died. so this type of protesting is just crazy. comment. that is my this is not protesting anymore. when it becomes violent and they are looting businesses, they are just being unlawful. host: let's talk to larry from sunderland, maryland. caller: good morning.

they were correct in arresting officer for the death of mr. floyd, but the mayor made a major mistake. so now, there is orchestrated chaos and anarchy. you are going to see how quick acrossare going to go the country. we are going to have a race war. this is very dangerous what you are in. host: let's talk to tony from newport, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. my only comment is, you know, from the day trump took office -- i am an independent, by the way -- he has always tried to back with thewar and the kkk, glorifying

and i had a brother-in-law that was a trooper and another one that was a captain and a .tate trooper, i sure hope you guys are ready. i am just sick of it. host: let's talk to lewis from montgomery, alabama. good morning. caller: yes. hello? host: go ahead. you are on the air. caller: the one thing about this case, i don't think what they are doing is wrong, but looting is wrong. my thing is, go to the top and straighten it out and that is where the corruption is at.

at the top of this country with the leaders. it is with them. if you string the top out, the bottom will fall in line. that is what they are not doing. we need to fight them. you know? host: let's go to nancy, calling from broadway, new jersey. nancy, good morning. caller: good morning. yes. to thank white people for the roadmap on how they are going to be treated when they are the out numbered majority. if they're going to dish it out like this, they're going to take it. i am telling young people how to listen to all the little excuses white people give for killing us, note it, and they can teach their kids because when white people are not in the majority anymore, when we start mowing them down, we are going to tell them the same bull crab they told us --bull crap they told us. host: let's go to rodney in louisiana. rodney, good morning?

caller: yeah. host: go ahead, rodney. i think we lost rodney. let's try anne-marie, calling from the bronx, new york. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you, sir? host: just fine, go ahead. caller: thank you for having me to speak. when it comes to what is going on today, we have been going through this for a very long time. womanan african-american and having a young african-american son, my fear is when he gets older, this is going to continue in keep going on and on area we have to do something about this. sometimes protesting may not go how we want it to, but this is what they think we are anyway, so we need to be able to show them we are better than that. we do need to get together and protest the right way. to all of ourace

african-american kings and queens who have lost their lives to what is going on today, which is racism. thank you. host: let's talk to tim from wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. hello? host: you're on the air, go ahead. floyd being george murdered like that, let's just state the obvious. that was so horrific and terrible. i do not know a person, white or was behind those police officers. they should be charged with murder, maybe they will be. all of this hammering and this violence that they will loot, people, and that is in the name of george floyd? give me a break. that is in the name of people just being utterly without conscience and feeling.

destroying someone's business to make up for george floyd makes about as much sense as me jumping off a cliff. give me a break. quit these allies. this looting is not about george floyd -- quit these lies. this looting is not about george floyd. it is about people taking out their hate on everybody else. host: let's talk to mike from huntersville, minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. i cannot say more than back i just said about that incident. the guy before me said it all. that police officer that was on his neck, he should be in jail already or for life. that was ridiculous. good three police officers that -- the three police that watched it, get them out of uniform now! nobody stands in and watch as, especially a police officer. serve and protect, officer!

that is the oath you take! own it. thank you. carolyn,'s talk to calling from washington, d.c. caller: good morning. i think it is a shame that people are not doing this in honor of george, they are doing this because of their frustration and mistreatment for centuries, going back to the kkk, when a lot of people got away with lynching, raping, and city people's houses on fire and slavery times. we are sick and tired of this mess. should not have to go through these extends to get justice done or to get noticed. it is ridiculous. we are human, too. everybody is hermon, which hurts. it is time for this stuff to change! host: let's see what some of our areal media followers

saying about what is going on in minneapolis and around the nation. here is one tweet that says if a person beat or kill the cop all three people stood there and did nothing, they are all getting charged with that murder, period. all the officers involved should get the same justice. another says, i hope no federal tax dollars go to rebuild the damage from riots. you break it, you buy it. another tweet says, it is unfortunate, video showed floydin cuffs in front of a store, and how it escalated, we will never know as one side is currently silent. the store owner said floyd maine never have been aware he passed a counterfeit ill. he was ambushed and may have been confused. another tweet says public employee unions create public employee bugs. and one more treat that says the officers involved deserve jail time.

every single looter/rider does, as well -- looter/rioter, does, as well. let's talk to elma calling from emporia, virginia. caller: good morning. how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: my thing about the whole situation is it was wrong. this one officer started this fire. the other officers around him did not stop the fire, so how do you expect people to react? host: let's go to monique, calling from washington, d.c. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. you know, i listen to a lot of callers. some of them do not have a clue about how much frustration and pain black americans live with today in the united states of america. these young people are not out

there burning down targets and autozone's because of one death, you know? you have to breanna, trayvon white, this has built up frustration, and the police union are giving officers and president trump are basically telling officers, you have a right to kill on-site. that officer killed that young man. when he looked at the 17-year-old young lady who was video recording him, he looked at them like, and what? what are you going to do? i am going to keep my knee on this man. what are you going to do? just like the brother of george floyd said yesterday, it is not going to stop. it is going to continue. they have to burn this whole country down. the only thing that he asked for was the white people who understand their frustration and

the needs of lack people who -- black people who want to join with us and stand with this, we appreciate you. at the end of the day, it is about white folks standing up for what they see as the injustice of black people in america. it takes white people to change it. black people cannot do it by themselves! danny, callingto from silver spring, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. my thing is if you are protesting, fine. but once you throw a brick through a glass window, then you become not a protester but a criminal. s outr two, the black mom there with single sons in the city, you don't have to be afraid of a police officer killing your son because in baltimore, there were 348 murders last year and that was black on black crime.

mothers, your sons should fear their neighbor. host: let's go to rob, calling from independence, missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is some people are --they and saying, well, should ask themselves, how do you know that? you don't have the facts, so hold your horses. my main comment is these police officers who commit racist acts against blacks and others, they did not become a racist. they were racist before they put on that blue uniform. i think people should be screened and asked race explicit questions as to how they feel about race relationships in america. if they fail those tests, then they should never be let into the police force, and we probably will stop having these problems, period. that is my comment.

thank you. host: protests have also happened here in washington, d.c. president trump has been tweeting about some of the protests that happened around the white house this morning. i will read some of the tweets that president trump put out this morning. he says, "great job last night at the white house by the u.s. secret service. they were not only totally professional but very cool. i was inside, watched every move, and could not have felt more safe. let the protesters scream and rent as much as they want, but whenever someone got out of line, they were cut down, they would quickly come down on them hard and did not know what hit them. the frontline was replaced with agents like magic. big crowd, efficiently organized, but nobody came close to reaching the fence. if they had, they would have been greeted with most vicious dogs and ominous weapons i have ever seen. that is when people would have been really badly hurt.

many secret service agents just waiting for action. we put the young ones on the front line, sir, and good practice. as you saw last night, they were very cool and professional, never letting it get out of hand. thank you. d.c. mayor, who always looks for money and help, would not let d.c. police captain -- police get involved. that is there -- not their job. nice." we have seen some criticism of president over his tweets on minneapolis. let's go back to the phones and varius calling from athens, georgia. caller: good morning, big j. how are you? how much do i love c-span, big j. comments.make a few first of all, we, the american knee grows, we are not u.s.

citizen, and have the rights of the american people. .2, we are suffering from mental illness that is afflicted in the resistance to police authority, knowing that -- knowing the end results. part three, just stop this, you youre, need to understand position as a third class citizen in america, who will stay there until you develop -- and white -- .4, this country is for white people. .5, the entertainment complex is slowly eroding their privilege by dumbing down their youths and flooding the border with brown, yellow, black people colors. host: let's go to, calling from laurel, maryland -- let's go to oberyn calling from laurel, maryland.

caller: the whole looting aspect, that is not what we need to do. you have to understand that this has been systemic for a long time. people are looting because of all the people who have lost their lives. granted, it is not right, but you can watch the alt right, whether in michigan, where they go on to intimidate the police. people cannotse come out because of covid, people are looking at it like, their views are respected and nothing happens to them, but when we do something and something tragic happens in our community, all of a sudden, people don't take it seriously. i think we have reached a feverish pitch with this thing, where it is going to be a problem if we cannot quell it because it has intensified now. that is going to be a problem because i could get the end of the day, we are all going to have to find a way to make this work. one of the biggest things they can do is if they start passing laws about police officers are being hired, making it more

difficult, trying to pick out the best instead of anybody can destroy or people who have been in the military and suffering from ptsd, they need to find a way to do this because we are targeting and feel certain type of way and we are angry. host: let's talk to natalie, calling from ran rivers, kentucky. good morning -- from grand rivers, kentucky. caller: good morning, c-span. my comments are i think it was horrendous what reviewed by that cop, killing that man in real time. i do agree that protesting should be done, and to be done until this stops. however, i do not agree with the writing. and you start rioting killing others, you are no better than the cop that killed a young man. as far as the lady from new jersey who says when the african-americans take over and they are going to treat the whites exactly like they have been treated all these years, i do not see how that is going to work at all.

host: let's go to vicki, calling from houston, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to speak about the violence that is happening right now. if you could give me a few seconds. the going to not focus on looting or rioting. i don't approve of it, but at the same town, as a mother, and see theck-american, to police officer to have his knee on the african-american's neck, and have his hand in his pockets, and the young man asked him, he says, what do you want to do? he says, sir, i just want to get up, and so many words. he says, go ahead. as a black mother, if that was one of my kids laying there, you don't have to know the person.

in us to feel, so let us not focus on the fact that the white american is the only way that this is going to stop. we as individuals, you look at those protesters. it is not just blacks out there. it is not just whites. alterable colors -- multiple colors. and when you start recognizing that in this century and time, people are wanting to come together. olds the individuals of the that continue to try to rehab over and over what we cannot do. so you that are thinking about the building that is burning down, think about the black men that have burned down for over 200 years. host: let's talk to freddie, calling from easley, south carolina. caller: how are you doing? host: just fine. go ahead.

caller: i am 68 years old, african-american from south carolina. i would just like to say white americans is looking at, they are seeing murder happening, but this is a thing. all of that stuff being thrown saythere -- white americans they want to get them out of the we are showing america what your constitution does, to protest a bad deed. we appreciate white people doing that, but look, they are throwing rocks and bricks, they are going to start a white and black war. we have to look at it, got signs and sticks in our hands. we know the police have got them guns. we just want to let them know

that this man murdered. like you said, his hands in his pocket. host: let's talk to rich, calling from hickory hill, illinois. caller: thanks for taking my call. we seeng about the stuff on the news, you see the part where he is being neal dunn -- he is being kneeled on. to me, i don't see what got him into that position, but generally, from my experience with the police, they're going to do what they need to do to resolve whatever the issue they are there to do. and they are not there to do it may be not -- that is there proper way. when i fought with the police, there are three or dr. on top of me and they are going to win. that is their job. host: rich, does it matter what led up to him putting his knee on george floyd's neck? caller: i think the police are

taught that is how they're going to resolve him struggling in writing. -- struggling and fighting. their job is they are not there to enforce the laws and get hurt doing it. this is what they do to try and keep themselves safe. they are doing that because that is what they are trying to do. host: let's talk to mary, coming from whitehall, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i am just calling about this issue about the looting that is going on. this morning. host: go ahead, mary. caller: ok. the part that is very disturbing is that i don't see that it is being aired where they have a in black clothing looting autozone and breaking windows with that to entice the riots to happen.

so there are some underlying beings that are happening in the background that people do not realize. a lot of these looters out here have been encouraged to do that to portray a different issue to people in the media. so do not believe everything you see out there and those riots. a lot of them are initiated to start a race war. ist is going on right now hurting all of our communities. i hear black on black in every neighborhood has an issue with each other when it comes to certain things that happen. it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. i just want people to realize when you see these riots out here, just think out-of-the-box. anna, calling to

from chicago, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. the gentlemanst who called is an idiot. you don't put your knee, and you could see where this guy was resting down on the man's neck. that does not require training for someone to tell you you should not do that. that is common sense, humanity. doo think a train where you think of a person's neck he should not be charged with manslaughter or third degree, it should be a choice of first or second degree. also, all of these football players who kneel and disrespect the fly, where are they? why don't they put their money to use? get them the addresses of these five cops, paste it on billboards with their pictures, and found them for the rest of their lives because they're going to get off.

do not let them have any peace. have people to get in front of their house. these are the kind of things that would make a difference, but to go and getthugs and -- get thugs and thieves, have them looting, and destroying people's properties. these two folks who just opened up a bar, they destroyed there. it was on the news. host: let's talk to laura, calling from maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to say a great injustice was done to mr. floyd. i also want to say that we need to use common sense. two wrongs do not make a right. you know, i understand how the black community feels. i have a lot of black friends, but i wanted see that we do not lament the loss of all these blacks that are murdered in chicago, baltimore, and new york. we are focusing on the tenfold ss of an elephant.

we do have a bigger problem. host: we would like to thank all of our callers for calling into the site. coming up next, benjamin chapman of north carolina university joins us to talk about how food safety is being impacted by the pandemic. ofer, dr. caleb alexander don hopkins bloomberg school of health will join us for a discussion -- john hopkins school of health will join us for a discussion on the epidemic. we will be right back. >> having lived through a loss of competence in our institutions, wave of cynicism has left us unable to trust anything by an expert, comes difficult to rise to an occasion like this. our first reaction is to say they are lying to us and they are only in it for themselves and a lot of our national institutions got to take on the challenge of persuading people again that they exist for us and

they are here for the country. >> sunday, june seven at noon eastern on in-depth come a live conversation with author and american enterprise institute levin.r yaval join the conversation with your phone calls, tweets, texts, and facebook messages. watch in depth on book tv on c-span two. "washington journal" continues. caller: we are going to talk about how host: covid-19 has impacted food safety in the united states. chapman,s benjamin north carolina state university professor and cohost of the food safety talk podcast. good morning. guest: good morning. host: what did our food safety net look like both before covid-19 and what does it look

like now? of the mostis one regulated products we have. when it comes to what it looked like before is we go back three months with many inspectors out on farms, and restaurants, meatpacking plants and over the last 12 weeks, much of that work has continued with a lot of different precautions protecting both the inspectors as well as the employees that are there to reduce the risk of covid-19 amongst them. today, asy for us folks that eat food in the u.s., much of the food is the same standard as it was before. host: we have heard a lot of talk in the news about meatpacking plants around the country. illness is happening there and coronavirus hotspots around. is that affecting the food that's being produced by those plants? is we no, the good news

don't really have concerns about food being a transmission route for covid-19 illnesses. the biggest risk is person transmission. it is one of the reasons why we see these illnesses in meatpacking plants and other food processing plants. -- food itself is not really doesn't lend itself to being a route for transmission. it has to do a lot with the biology of the virus. history over the last three months, we have not seen any clusters of illnesses arising from the food supply system. host: because of the pandemic, are we seeing more inspections of food processing plants, more

inspections of food? are we seeing fewer? lines, whatsame about restaurants? are we still seeing, as the country begins to reopen, are we seeing more inspections of restaurants? are we seeing fewer inspections? guest: when it comes to meat and poultry processing plants, there is a food safety law that says an inspector has to be there at all times of operation. that law is still in effect. there really hasn't been any reduction in that process whatsoever. that law goes back to the mid-1990's. it's something that meat and poultry producers have worked with over the last few decades. slightould has been a suspension of inspections for other types of food. term,st in the short around the start of the pandemic

and the start of lockdowns and restrictions across the u.s., that has increased to where we were before. when you move through to restaurants which are regulated by local health departments, i worked with a lot of local health department across the u.s. and many have struggled and managing the outbreak doing contact tracing and other things as well as routine inspections. after hearing about it and reading about it and talking to many across the u.s., there are inspections still going on in a different way. some of them may be virtual. that includes an operator walking around with an iphone as a starting point. some of them may be quick in and out. when it comes to restaurants, some local health departments may only inspect a restaurant once per year in others it might

be four times per year. things have slowed over the last three months but i wouldn't say it has a drastic impact on food because inspection is really just one sort of cog in our machine when it comes to food safety. host: explain what a virtual inspection would be like. guest: it's something that i just learned about over the last month or so. inspectorsa where will connect with an operator. they will ask the operator to walk them around to see what's happening, to be their eyes. than the inspector will take notes and ask questions. they will also conduct an interview and that's a lot of what an inspection is. it's not always just seeing what's happening but having an understanding about what a restaurant operator is struggling with how they are managing things. one of the things we have to

keep in mind when it comes to virtual inspections and where restaurants are now is that, in many cases, restaurant operators are at a reduced operation. and many less staff places no dining rooms are open. the process has changed. what i understand is that these virtual inspections are not the only thing that's happening. it's a starting point for an inspector to really reduce the amount of time they would be in that operation overall. the biggest risk is being around other people and we want to limit that. host: let's get our viewers involved in this conversation. we will open up regional lines again for this conversation this morning.

keep in mind, he can always text us. and we are always reading social wj.ia on twitter and c-span benjamin, who handles food inspections on the federal level and who handles it on the state level and do they cooperate? guest: it depends on the product. and and poultry inspections some egg products and catfish are handled by usda, a group within the department called the food safety and inspection service. inspections of

all other food products with standards that many inspectors in states follow as well. it depends on the state on who handles state inspections. in some states, it's the department of health and other states it's the department of agriculture and some cases, both depending what the facility is. when it comes to food manufacturing or meat and poultry. when it comes to restaurants, ,rocery stores, farmers markets retail settings, the inspections are really handled at the local level. departmentshealth do it in many cases. in some states, those inspections are also handled by the state but we have a patchwork of food safety regulations throughout the u.s. that is built on history and implementing rules at different times.

the pandemic increases around the united states, it seems like the fda decreased the number of in person inspections it did. here's a paragraph from usa today -- now, benjamin, should be -- should we be worried about the condition of our food network now considering that a couple of months ago, it seemed like fda

severely curtailed their inspections? guest: one thing we have to remember when it comes to anything around food is inspections are really just a very brief snapshot in time. an inspector may be at a foods facility over a handful of couple of hours over two or three years. they are not happening weekly or monthly per facility. the food system safe in the u.s. and elsewhere are operators of businesses. what matters is what's happening when the inspector is not there. although there have been some numbers, fda the actually does not do the majority of inspections. much of the inspections that to

happen are done by city and local inspectors. yes, there is a reduction but for me right now, this reduction tor one month does not lead a specific concern i would have with this state for suit -- with the state food supply because we are getting some of the snapshots but we look at the large portion of what's happening out there. it makes up very few of these actual snapshots that exist. but really, it's not something on on a dailylean basis. as someone who studies this and works on training within the industry, i see inspections as a tool in the process and it's important but they are a linchpin when we pause or remove it for a short amount of time to do with the pandemic.

supply suggest our food is not unsafe. i think we have lots of other processes in place within the food system that have continued. manyt to point out that buyers of food at the federal ,evel or the corporate level grocery stores, restaurant chains, restaurant supply warehouses, they continue to institute a process of auditing which is different from inspection but they require producers of food and processes of food to submit to sometimes surprise audits of their facilities. thanare much more in depth our regulatory inspections. those processes have not slowed whatsoever. process piece of the and it's an important piece but

one part of the process does not give me other concerns for the safety of food in general. host: tell us what food virology that -- and why we are talking about it during the pandemic. guest: food virology is the theirof how viruses make way into food. and what it means when the viruses get into food. most of the time, we are talking about pre-covid-19 situations. we are concerned and continue to be concerned about foodborne viruses such as norovirus, something that leads to 20 million cases of foodborne illness per year, hepatitis a which is something we have been dealing with geographically localized outbreaks in our population over the last few years but it's something we really focus on.

somethingas become important over the last three months over the course of the pandemic is looking at the of theor the possibility virus that causes covid-19 to be in food and transmitted through food. based on data we have on previous coronavirus is we have investigated in the world of food virology and data that exists right now in epidemiology in the cluster of illnesses demonstrates that food does not appear to be a vehicle for risk for covid-19. it doesn't mean that food virology is not important. they continue to investigate that question and over the last 12 weeks, these are many of the questions that the food industry, food regulators in the academic world has been trying

to ensure is focus on the virus, the virology of the virus. and the ability to persist on surfaces, in food settings and it's an important area of study now. that way we can continue to monitor and keep it on our radar. host: let's let some of our viewers join in the conversation. we will start with jenkins calling from ellenwood, georgia, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my question. my question is, when i see ap for beef or chicken that says usda inspected, does that mean it has been inspected or does it depend on the local guys who operate in mississippi or georgia in the slaughterhouse? guest: yes, when you see usda inspected on a piece of beef or some sort of packaging, it means

there is a usda inspector that is in the plant for the entire process. whether that's from slaughter to packaging, whatever is happening in that facility, there is an inspector there. in some cases, they may be u.s. alsospectors that are employees of state health or agricultural departments. but it is meeting our federal .aws around meat inspection we are seeing more and more states reopen fully after the coronavirus pandemic. should people be concerned about the safety of dining out or even the safety of their grocery items? come back to to ,omething i mentioned earlier

the part that is most important in this pandemic is limiting exposure around other people. as we go through relaxed restrictions, we have to think andt ways to do that protect ourselves and protect employees. if someone is in a high-risk group, a vulnerable population is what the cdc has talked about, individuals who are elderly or compromised and have under law -- and have underlying health issues, being around other people whether it's in a grocery store or restaurant or a pharmacy or at the doctor's office and different places, it's still a risky thing to do. as we see relaxed restrictions, i have been working quite a bit on this in north carolina with our department of health and human services, our restaurant and lodging association and our tourism board around creating standards and a training program

for employees and restaurant operators about opening up and relaxing restrictions to make sure that they are changing how they operate, to reduce the risk that they are transmitting leading to covid-19. the program is called count on me. changesprogram, the that are being prescribed or things like face coverings for employees, increased disinfection of high touch services including condiments, and really practicing social and physical distancing within a restaurant. to your question, i think there is always a risk but what i would suggest for people who are trying to take advantage of relaxed restrictions and having a meal is to look for places that have changed what they do,

that are there to protect you. have your want to business but not at an increased risk. for me, the real risk i would try to avoid is going to a restaurant or grocery store that looks at this and says it's not a big deal. we will go back to what we were doing. we will not make people sit six feet apart or limit the number of people in our business. it's just a made up process. those are the types of businesses that i would seek to avoid. when it comes to grocery stores, grocery stores have continued to operate as an essential business because we don't really have a choice. we need to get food. i think many of the grocery stores that i've been to over the last 12 weeks, i try to limit my time there is much as possible. there have probably been eight or 10 times i've gone to get food for my family.

i have seen a lot of practice changes there with increased hand sanitizer, cleaning and disinfection of carts, food bars and limiting the number of people that are in the space, encouraging with markings on the floor about where people stand in line, having plexiglas up to protect both cashiers and consumers. all of those are really good practices. we haven't seen clusters of illnesses at either restaurants over the last 12 weeks or grocery stores. to me, that demonstrates the things we are putting into place , the industry is putting into place are good at protecting. host: before we get to our callers, do you think things like buffets and restaurants and hot bars in grocery stores are gone permanently because of covid-19 or do you see a situation in the future where

those kind of offerings will return? guest: it's hard to predict the future of this one. a lot ofs we have spread,l for community we have to treat buffets and hot bars differently than we did before. i wouldn't say eliminating them is always the way we will handle this. some ofabout training the restaurants i have worked with over the last four weeks. training employees on how to makethat buffet system and it almost like a service system but also having social distancing where someone says i would like some mac & cheese and green beans and some items from the salad bar, please go get it for me. the server goes to get it instead of handing it directly to someone, they place it on a table and practice that six foot distance. i have seen businesses try to

manage it that way. changes with the business looks like but it's a way to manage it. future if we go into the , even six months or 18 months ahead, i worry about people standing in line next to each other at a buffet at a large function like a wedding or a concert. i see a lot of risk associated with that but i wouldn't say it's the elimination of this process. i think it will take both regulators, academics as well as the food industry to help come up with ways to manage this. in some cases, it might be easier to get rid of it and in other cases, it might be an important part of the business that the process changes and it changes the cost of what is needed to put into it. -- let's gocall to to joe from bowie, maryland. caller: i am concerned that the

chinese bought the smithfield pork farm a couple of years ago and more recently, i heard they weren't allowing any inspections on these farms. it has prompted me to curtail my consumption of the other white meat, thank you. going back to something i mentioned earlier, we haven't really seen any changes in the process for meat and poultry inspection. to keep ine have mind is any time a firm gets purchased or we think about our process on how we get food is we have a set of regulations for food in the u.s. that is complicated but the food that gets to market needs to meet the inspection criteria. it's not to say that we don't

have situations, there are outbreaks, there are foodborne illnesses. we estimate around 42 million cases per year but the system we to all foodslied thatmake it into the u.s. are, in many cases, inspections that happen in countries outside who prescribed -- who subscribe to federal standards to make sure food that gets to the u.s. meets are standard. the ownership change as a risk because we have this audits, other requirements as well as inspection which is all part of the process. host: let's talk to ronald from salem, missouri, good morning. caller: good morning.

maybe professor chapman can thelain china blaming consumption of bats which is a warm-blooded mammal transmitting the covid-19 to the human population and why other mammals don't? guest: i think we are looking at a theory as many situations happen with global outbreaks. we often don't have a smoking gun that we can point to to know exactly what happened. one of the prevailing theories handling of bats or maybe handling of diseased bats, being around bats, being around a specific market in china has led to this. the consumption of meat is not something that many's -- many

food safety experts or virology experts appointed to. we see species, the potential for jumping species of the virus but it's usually being around a live animal. that's really where the biggest theory is right now. it's not around the consumption of beef and it goes back to something i mentioned earlier where the virology of the virus doesn't lend itself to leading to transmission through consumption because the way that her stomach works in the virus inelf, it doesn't like to be a high oxygen environment. from let's talk to bonnie alexandria, minnesota, good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. i can remember before the pandemic, i read an article that speed up theto pork production plant and beef

and poultry were to follow. up anddering if it sped what's the chances of e. coli outbreaks happening more frequently? there has been some work done, some independent assessments of this, some academic study. one thing about speeding up lines is it certainly does increase efficiency. the inspection process right now is all about evaluating the health of animals, making sure that cleaning and sanitizing is done correctly, that during the thatss of meat slaughter the insides of the animal that can contain things like pathogenic e. coli or salmonella are not being spread around, that that process is containing

the risk. speeding up the lines incrementally in the assessments out there from academics doesn't change that risk. it really doesn't change the way we look at the testing process and the evaluation and watching the cleaning and sanitizing of the process. it's one step in the meat that doesn't show increased risk. the inspection is really just looking at one part of that stub -- one of the -- is looking at one part of that. we don't actually have an ability to look at a piece of food or watch something and see that there is e. coli in it. we have to trust other processes like testing, like looking for indications on the health of the animal. none of that changes with the speed of lines. host: let's see if we can get

one more quick question in from george, calling from richwood, ohio, good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to find out when they inspect pork and chicken coming into our country, is it to the point of already being processed or coming in live? -- we the majority actually don't import a whole lot. the vast majority of poultry and chicken we consume in the u.s. is grown here and process here. most of what comes in would be processed. that processing is done at a plant that meets our usda regulations in other countries. the majority of what we consume of those products is produce here the u.s. host: we would like to thank benjamin chapman, north carolina

state university professor and food safety expert for coming on here today and talking to us about food safety and the coronavirus pandemic. thank you so much. guest: thank you. host: forever last half hour, we will talk to dr. caleb alexander about the addiction epidemic and how covid-19 has been impacting treatment. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ >> american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. coming up this weekend today at noon eastern on the presidency, former white house curator william allman on the 1962 white house tour with first lady

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/the president's to learn more about each president and historian features in order your copy today wherever books and e-books are sold. "> "washington journal continues. host: we are back with dr. caleb alexander who is a johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health professor of epidemiology and medicine and he's here to talk about how the covid-19 pandemic is impacting drug and alcohol addiction. thank you for being with us this morning. guest: thank you for having me and for shining a brighter light on this important topic. host: tell us about your medical background and expertise in addiction. guest: i am a practicing general internist. i have a population of about 250 or 300 patients that i provide general medicine primary care

for in the baltimore area. i am also a professor of medicine and epidemiology at johns hopkins and a lot of my work focuses on understanding the overdose epidemic and evaluating interventions to address this. host: tell us about what the impact of the covid-19 pandemic has been on drug and alcohol addiction including opioids. andt: it's a great question a source of great concern for many of us. keep in mind, before the pandemic hit, we were in the midst of the worst overdose epidemic in our country's history, losing more than 60,000 individuals per year from overdose. enormouslyt changed when the pandemic started. while the overdose epidemic has receded from view, it remains

just as bad or worse than ever. there are a few different reasons for that. individuals with addictions, at least those with active addition, may be more likely to get covid in the first place. they may have housing and security or be homeless or be in a detention facility or jail or otherwise live instead inc.'s -- or live in settings that put them in the line of covid-19 transmission. many people with addictions have chronic diseases that increase the risk of severe illness or death if you get infected. things like hypertension or diabetes or tobacco use, obesity, things like that. the third source of concern is that the pandemic is really undercut the treatment system. it's disrupted the drug market but also undercut the treatment system that we rely on to provide care for the millions of americans that have drug or alcohol addictions. host: i'm looking at a quote

from you in an article where you said people in recovery rely on human contact. that's one thing we really haven't had during this pandemic. it's hard to get that human contact when you are social distancing. does that mean many people who are in recovery are now falling behind on the things they needed to do to get better? guest: it's a great point you raise. we often say that the road to recovery is paved with relationships and anybody in that thosen tell you contacts, those pure networks, that community is vital to sustain people living in recovery. that has been one of the big concerns. it's worth pointing out that as your viewers know, the pandemic has not hit all of the country equally. there were some parts of the

country where this is a much greater concern than others. concernsne of the real with respect to how the pandemic may affect individuals that have addiction is that it has pulled apart the social fabric than individuals in recovery rely on to help support and sustain them. host: let's let our viewers take part in this conversation. we will open up special lines for our last half-hour.

you can always reach us on social media. alexander, we know that a lot of us have been isolating ourselves in our homes and apartments during the pandemic. that peopleriggers who suffer from addiction saw during the pandemic like isolation, like depression, that made their struggles even worse? guest: i think what we have seen his remarkable resilience among

many that have substance abuse disorders. if you spend time working with people or living in a community of recovery, you will find enormous and profound strength as well. what we have seen is a multiple response, a growth in the use of internet faith platforms, web-based platform, treatment committees and recovery communities online. many, many people are moving to online but no amount of zooming like we are doing now can fully take the place of being face-to-face. you have seen a growth in internet-based community, you have seen efforts by community organizations to mobilize and increase the use of mobile outreach for example. we have seen federal and state responses, there is a lot we can talk about with respect to telemedicine and the ways that

federal and state agencies have responded by freeing up the ability of treatment providers to provide treatment for people that have addictions by telephone or by videoconferencing rather than face-to-face which, historically, has been required. there are many different levels at which individuals and organizations have been working minimize buffer and the strains that otherwise are being placed on the treatments of some. it's a very important set of issues. the said, just because pandemic is here doesn't mean overdose epidemic has gone away. in fact, in some communities, more people are dying of then were before the pandemic started. host: one of the things we have seen during this pandemic is the loss of a lot of jobs which

equates to a loss of a lot of health insurance for many people around the nation including people who suffer from addiction. with the loss of jobs, does that mean that those people who were getting treatment for their addiction through their health insurance now cannot afford to get that same treatment? get thata way you can addiction treatment you need without that health insurance that your job provided? guest: it's a critical question. superb insurance coverage for addiction even before the pandemic. as you point out, the incredibly higher rates of joblessness now only poses additional strains. one reason this is so important is because addiction is a disease. for far too long, we have treated it as if it is a behavior.

it is not a behavior, it's a disease that if you love anybody or know anybody or you yourself have an addiction, you know you didn't choose this anymore than someone would choose to have multiple sclerosis or congestive heart failure. it is important. one of the gains we were making prior to the pandemic is trying to mainstream what we call mainstream addiction care. in other words, to train the primary care workforce to move addiction from a subspecialty to mainstream where it is just part of care. you go in for asthma or high blood pressure, you will get screened for substance abuse disorders and if needed, treated for that as well. i think the loss of insurance you note is of great concern. host: let's let some of our viewers join in the conversation. we will start with josh from toledo, ohio, good morning. caller: can you hear me? host: we can hear you, go ahead.

a real quick story on me -- i was in attic for over 10 years and i've been clean now for over five years. guest: congratulations. caller: thank you. behink the government should paying for a lot of the treatment because i got sober with the help ofmat which is evidence based on something that helps a lot of addicts. aboute absolutely right addicts especially when you go to meetings, being in a group setting is something that really alcoholics.s and now, i wouldgh imagine, especially people who are now just getting sober

because going to those meetings and talking to peers is something that is vital in those early days of recovery. that's really all i had to say. want to let people know that it is a disease and nobody wants to become an addict and to let other addicts out there know that you can get sober. you have to want it for yourself and i am living proof. host: go ahead and respond. guest: congratulations on your time and thank you for sharing. the medications you alluded to our evidence-based. they are fda approved and they have decrease the risk of overdose by up to 50%. up to 50% reduction in the risk

of overdose with these we are talking about methadone and others. we do need to be sure that, as you point out, our health system , our payers, commercial and public insurers, medicaid and medicare, we need to be sure that we make these treatments available because they can and will continue to save tens of thousands of lives every year. alexander, i will read a very sad tweet we just got from one of our viewers. helpt you to suggest some or somewhere this person can go.

where should this person go for help, dr. alexander? guest: i think you may make it back so i'm not so convinced. in a room withas you and we could talk face to face and what i would tell you is that you have been in treatment before and you have been in recovery before. andnow that recovery relapse as a part of the disease for many people. it's just like tobacco. when i see someone in my clinic that says i tried to quit smoking and i was successful for six month and now i'm smoking again, i say, most people who

quit successfully have quit unsuccessfully in the past. there are many people that relapse and ultimately get back. it is indeed true that some do not. the fact that you are posing this question suggests that you have some fight left, that you have some hope left. that you have hope for a better way and there are many treatment communities and recovery communities that are waiting for you. they are waiting for you so i hope you will avail yourself as we talked about earlier, online communities have flourished and there are thousands of online communities that are waiting for people like you to join them and also picking up the phone. i understand that everybody has the same level of social support and social fabric. pulled ouric has

social fabric apart in ways that have been unsettling to many of us. want to remind our viewers that the substance abuse and mental health services administration as a hotline you can call right now. -4357hotline is 1-800-662 help.00-662- you can call that number at any time and find help for yourself. that's go back to the phone lines and talk to bruce calling from illinois, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say first of all i'm here by the grace and mercy of god. in this particular time, we are grieving the loss of people too close to not be able to attend funerals.

just losing activities like through has helped me my recovery. it helps me emotionally and physically to deal with pain and diabetes on top of it. fearful of succumbing to this virus and being isolated. the other thing that has impacted me so much is watching another death. underneath my addiction is depression and it's been a depression since childhood. however, i have balance that with the help of family and professionals. i balance it with my own understanding. watching this death profoundly affect me as an african-american, feeling hopeless, going to a place of ofression, going to a place traumaticng host

stress of an african-american man going through so much trauma. these last two years have been very difficult to watch the abuse of persons who had an impact on a lot of people's mental health. rage.ng so much i'm struggling but with the grace and mercy of god, with the help of others, i can make it through this. host: go ahead and respond, dr. alexander. guest: thank you for sharing and these are hard times for many reasons. those extend far beyond addiction and substance abuse disorders. saw a bumper sticker the other day that said if i seem a little frazzled, keep in mind this is my first pandemic. we have the pandemic but we also have other events like you are pointing to.

it does make it a stressful and unsettling time for many. if you speak with people in recovery, people in treatment whether or not they are in a 12 step program or not, they will underscore the importance of prioritizing recovery and really putting that first. it sounds like you are working to do that in your own life and that's so important because that's, as they say, if you get rid of that and let that go, everything else kind of falls apart intern. we have. alexander, been quarantined and isolated with our family members and our friends for the last few months. what are the signs we should be looking for to see if someone is suffering from addiction? guest: it's a great question and one of the ironies of addiction is that, to some degree, this is a diagnosis that an individual

has to make him or herself. there are clinical interviews and clinical questionnaires and the like. if you talk with one of the more than 14 million americans who have alcohol abuse disorder, speak with some of them who are in recovery, often what you will hear is they had to make that diagnosis themselves. is that there is a certain amount of willingness to acknowledge that that comes from within. but generally when we talk about addiction, we talk about use despite consequences that's probably the simplest definition of addiction i have ever heard of. use despite consequences. those consequences can be in many different spheres of our lives. in social occupational,

environmental, work, home, know,, church, you economics, many different spheres. but ultimately it comes down to use despite consequences whether it's alcohol and overuse or whether it's opioids. there are many people use opioids that don't have any problem that are on them for medically appropriate reasons and don't experience addiction but there are many more, more than 2 million americans that do have an active opioid use disorder. host: let's see if we can get a couple of more calls in before the end of the show. steve is calling from new york, good morning. caller: good morning. for this topic. i have been in recovery since 1987. i am happy to say i haven't had a slip since then.

i haven't picked up a drink so i consider myself an alcoholic which is an addiction. addicted people have addictive personalities. even people in recovery have to be careful about what they get involved with. say that the to quality of people's sobriety depends on the spiritual condition. if they are in it decent spot spiritually, they will be ok. addicts tend to isolate and this is the perfect situation for an addict to stay away from every buddy else and nobody knows what i'm doing and i can do my thing and nobody's going to know. it's a scary situation but i want to say that there is hope out there because i've been going to zoom meetings, you can go to aa.org in your county or your state and there are local zoom meetings available. there is help out there and that's enough out of me, thanks.

ahead and respond, dr. alexander. guest: thank you for your message of hope and congratulations for your 33 years or so. thank you for your message of hope. we do talk about the importance of having a program and whether or not someone is in a 12 step program, having a program can mean different things to different people including having a daily routine, having some structure to one's day, getting exercise. the point that you raise about being sure that one is spiritually fit is also something one will hear a lot. i think it's an important message. faith is important and faith is one of the sources that will help millions to get through this pandemic and to get through it while living healthy and rewarding lives. host: let's see if we can get one more caller in before the

end of the show. don is calling from melbourne, florida, good morning. caller: good morning. i really have to make a statement. sinceeen on methadone [inaudible] can you hear me? host: we can hear you, go ahead. caller: i have been on methadone since [inaudible] era. i don't know if you are unfamiliar with it but i've been on for quite a long time. here.n a program down they don't truly understand what's going on. i forgot the date of the week.

up when i shouldn't have and i was on once a month at that time. they said we can't deal with this anymore. to seven days you per week. host: let me interrupt, we are running out of time. speed up a little bit. it, i just want that i need some help. tothere anywhere i can go get these people to get off my back? guest: thank you very much. samhsawe can run the national helpline because that's important. part of what i was hearing his difficulty in getting medicine.

to treat opioid use disorder. we need greater flexibility. we have seen some movement on the part of federal and state agencies but i think your story highlights the importance of our having some flexibility in our getting these treatments to people and being sure that the pandemic doesn't prevent people from accessing evidence-based care. host: let's see if we can squeeze in one more person which is dave from armstrong creek, wisconsin, good morning. be quick for us. caller: thanks for taking my call. i am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober for about nine years. couple of things that are important to me. i haven't been to a meeting since the stay-at-home orders have been down but i follow a really strict routine every day. meditation, exercise including yoga. i try to get outside as much as

i can. i live in a pretty remote area so i can do that. i do understand every day i accept the fact that i am an alcoholic and that's never going to change. things that i also stay in contact with members that i used to attend meetings with every day and that's important. i am looking forward to being able to go to person to person meetings again. in the meantime, things have been going fine but i can understand how this could affect different people in different ways. host: go ahead and respond, dr. alexander. guest: thank you and congratulations for your time and i hope you and the millions continue to extend a hand to those that may be seeking one. this is really a time were we have a need greater than ever to really reach out.

i am confident we will get through this and get through it with a stronger and more comprehensive prevention treatment and recovery system. but it's going to take all of our efforts to do so. thank you so much. we would like to thank people for watching washington journal. we will be back at 7:00 tomorrow morning. stay safe out there.