and several days of protests over the death of george floyd. later, representative kelly armstrong talks about the senate judiciary's committee review of the rush investigation. ♪ host: protests continue across the country in the aftermath of george floyd's death and the situation call someone in , as three more officers are charged in his death. good morning, it's thursday, june 4, 2020. this first hour we will talk about the protest across the country, hear from you and your thoughts on these additional charges against the officers. to join the conversation, for those of you in the eastern and central time zones, call (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific regions, (202) 748-8001.

you can text us, that line is (202) 748-8003. and make sure that you include your name and where you are texting from, of course. on twitter, it's @cspanwj. we have some facebook posts already at facebook.com/c-span. do, we thing you can have been showing you photos, some from new sources, some from c-span card -- colleagues. there's a #, it's a photo feature. if you are on twitter or isebook, #we're looking for photo feature and we will show some of those throughout the program. tribune,apolis star the headline is the attorney, keith ellison, upgraded charges against the officer who knelt on george floyd's neck, charging

the other three involved, charges coming two days after the governor asked ellison to take over the prosecution in the killing of george floyd. holding a news conference yesterday, the ormer congressman from minneapolis, the minneapolis area. now that state attorney general. here's a look. [video clip] >> today i filed an amended complaint that charges derek chauvin with murder in the second degree for the death of george floyd. evidence available to us supports a stronger charge of second-degree murder. we have consulted with each other. second, today arrest warrants were issued for former minneapolis police officers ja came, thomas lane, and to tell. finally, i would like to announce that today county

attorney michael freeman and i againsted a complaint lane and towel with aiding and murder in the second degree, a felony offense. host: that's keith ellison, the attorney general from minnesota. three more charged, accused of aiding in the killing, they write the fallout from the death continued unabated on wednesday. as his official autopsy for the first time revealed that he was known to have had coronavirus in early april, the he was believed to be a symptomatic of the time of his death, demonstrators have regularly pointed out that police violence and covid-19 our district or shortly affecting where's theicans. bodycam footage? reports are

coming out the george floyd tested positive for covid-19 in our geisha he resisted being put in the car, spitting on an officer and if these facts are true -- host: let's go to your calls and here first from bill, in cleveland. good morning. caller: good morning.

[coughs] excuse me. i remember the 1968 riots and i really didn't understand them at the time, but of what i understand now is our president has taken the richest nation in the world [no audio] host: daniel is in washington, d.c., daniel, good morning. caller: thank you. i was shocked at the officer that kill this man. he wasn't really fearful of being exposed. he watched as this video and other community members were present. the four officers basically think that if they patrol together, they are like a policy. sse. -- po they move i get death squad, taking him behind the car and deathg him -- like a squad, taking him behind the car and killing him.

the medical examiner says it didn't involve suffocation, which is absurd, of course. two states attorneys didn't charge them. the last one charged with third-degree murder, now they are moving it up. you can see how the system is set up to exonerate these officers like happens all the time. look, we have a mentally ill president who psychiatrists say is a violent malignant narcissist. that's obvious. america has itself into a hole by giving a psychotic like trump a load of power. look at how the system is operating in plain view. honest,ares even be have integrity. they are all trying to play a game. that's the system. the state examiner fudged the autopsy. his report was ridiculous. look at how the system works. look at how the police are working with the prosecutors to

get away with these crimes. look at this system, my countrymen, with a psychotic president who shouldn't have all the power he has. it's absurd. why is he running the response to the covid virus? is that crazy or what? host: the washington post front page this morning, their headline, "esper and mattis at odds with trump." a photo here of officers outside officerse house, " blocking 16th street on wednesday, many wearing uniforms that showed no identification. the presidents threat to quell protests with troops, facing frompread criticism officials." the tweet with some video from half-an-hour ago, from betsy cline of cnn.

her tweet says "more fencing going up around the white house complex early this morning." to your calls from orange park, florida. this is william. william, good morning. my best friend is black. together we were talking about these, these riots and all that. we think the blacks and the whites are both being taken for a ride. these troubles are being caused by people outside this country and sponsored by george soros and you had better hope the democrats don't win or you won't even be on the air because you let roadsides talk. host: where are you getting the idea, that is the evidence george soros is behind this? caller: are you kidding me? host: i'm not kidding you, i'm asking where the reporting is on this. that george soros is behind this?

caller:i would read it on the a. you are going to ask me" and? he sponsors antifa. so do the coke brothers. they hate this country. george soros and the coke brothers? caller: right. host: the headline of the lead "activistsmorning, of a far-left antifa movement began planning to foment a nationwide antigovernment insurgency as early as november as the u.s. presidential campaign season kicked in, in earnest, according to a law enforcement official with evidence behind the shadowy group -- host: read more at washingtontimes.com.

frank, connecticut, good morning. caller: how are you doing, sir? i love your show, by the way. host: great, good to have you on. myler: i love your show, wife and i listen to you guys almost every day. i was hoping protesters would take a moment of silence, like a minute or two, or 10, to recognize the other people who have been .illed by the rioters i do believe there is a difference between peaceful protesters and the rioters. wife and i watch, we see the black lives matter and i see the black police captain killed, the black security guy killed, their lives don't seem to matter as much and i think this would the rioterseight if were called out for killing african-americans as well.

i think that consistency is important in any issue. you go further than just making it a political pick and choose who is important and who is not and i just wish politics would stay out. i think we would move ahead swiftly in fixing the race couldms in america if we just get both sides of the politics out of this. this headline here from "the new york post," "fbi joint task force investigates stabbing of new york cop in brooklyn or code dan, cleveland, ohio, good morning. all, i want tof say to you are probably the best commentator on the program. you are the fairest, you seem not to be too biased. going back to george soros,

years ago it was on craigslist, an advertisement for $1500 per week to be a protester and an activist. and itd the number on it started explaining to me that you can go around to different we pay forstuff, your transportation, your lodging and all this other stuff and i'm going, i'm not going to do that. i'm thinking to myself who has the money to sponsor this kind of stuff, you know? $1500 a week to people? soros,s of money there, he's a likely candidate. but the person i really wanted roadsk about, i'm no scholar but i know a bit about history and i just wish these black people would realize that the republicans are the ones, the ones that freed them. down south onle

the plantation, they were democrats. they do ists, all every four years they promise them something, blow smoke at them, they never do anything for the. i just wish they would realize , you know, there's a different way out there. the way they live in stuff, it's wrong, it should be. what happened with the cop, i'll be honest, they should public hanging with this guy. it's just sad. host: thanks for that. all of the officers involved in that have been charged, the charges were announced yesterday by the attorney general of minnesota. here is more of what he had to say. [video clip] >> winning a conviction will the hard.

there's only one prosecutor in the state of minnesota who has successfully within a police officer murder. he can tell you, it's hard. not because we doubt our resources hour of -- or our ability. in fact, we are confident in what we are doing. but history does show that there are clear challenges here and we are going to be working very hard and relying on each other and our investigative partners in the community to support the endeavor. headline this morning from politico, house judiciary panel hearingolice brutality next week and we will find out more about that with member kelly armstrong of north dakota later in the program. betty is up next, tennessee. caller: good morning. i would like to make some quick points, please.

i will be brief. this all started a long time ago with police brutality. it should have ended then. it shouldn't be happening today. if they convict the police that have killed people for no reason, shooting them down in the back, sitting in the car shooting them down, the police association let them get away. second thing, i was looking at it when mr. floyd was laying on that ground, begging for his life. was a lady out there who worked for the fire department that offered to help. the asian looking police officer kept pushing her back. he kept saying he couldn't breathe and she said let me check them and all of a sudden i knew the man was dying when i saw that man, he pushed, the officer pushed his knee on that man's neck real hard and all of a sudden, when you look at that, the man started urinating.

i knew he was dying, then. he was losing his body functions and calling for his mother. next thing i want to say, protesters, you are out there protesting, it's the good people protesting. the violent ones are the ones hurting the police. i don't like what they doing, i'm a black woman and i'm 69 years old and as far as the curfews, why you want to have a curfew at 11:00 at night? this united states should have a for everybody, sir. these governors need to make it for 6:00 so we can see who the wrongdoers out there doing and hurting people, property, and police officers. calling.nks for this is a text from donny --

host: on the police officer who was killed in the looting, a police in st. louis, david dorn, this is from km ovi in st. louis. for more -- looking for more information, information on the killer, raised to $40,000. caller: a lot of interesting points. one elephant in the room, we spent a fortune trying to protect everyone from the virus and suddenly we are ignoring it and minorities are going to be involved? hopefully not, but we spent a fortune and if we have to go to are going, all of us to get on the wrong side of this . we don't have a fortune to keep spending. one comment was that we are not spending enough on minorities for covid-19.

cactuses thatt of people can run up and sit on and complained that they sat on a cactus, but i nor the businesses are getting destroyed, other businesses rarely making it through the covid-19. the other problem that we have is two wrongs making a right. there's a justice department that should be taking care of us -- of this. owning your hands up, that's a tricky thing, but when you start messing around suddenly you won't down the right side of this situation. we have to have a way to arrest when we say put your hands up, they do it, don't run away. i think that's really difficult for the situation. i will hang up and listen to the answers. calling us from spring, texas, your thoughts? caller: calling to speak to the gentleman who said he saw an ad

for george soros on craigslist? conspiracy. his are abound. the conservatives seem to be under attack by the majority of the media, so they are really ramping up conspiracy aries. george soros has never been proven to have paid a single protester. this is innuendo leaning towards anti-semitism, tracing back to qe queue and on phenomenon -- sweepingomenon america. confirmation bias, people see something and it agrees with what they feel in their heart and they don't do any type of helping into the seeing whether it is relevant. it's maddening and i'm afraid that conservatives in america are destroying themselves and laughing along with the slogan that people needs a good strong

left and right wing to fly safe -- straight. host: mark esper, the headline of the ben wolfgang piece this morning, esper stands ground against trump on the use of military, writing -- host: here's what he had to say yesterday at the pentagon. [video clip] >> at times the military is law and help maintain order so that other americans can help exercise the rights, free from violence against themselves or their property. that is what thousands of guardsmen are doing today cities across america.

it is not something we see to do , but it is our duty and we do it with utmost skill and professionalism. i was reminded of that on monday as we visited the national guardsmen on duty monday night, protecting our most hallowed grounds and monuments. i'm very proud of the members of the national guard who are supporting this important task at the risk of their own welfare in many ways. i have always believed and continue to believe that the national guard is best suited for domestic support to civil authorities in these situations in support of local law enforcement. i say this not only as the secretary of defense, but as a warmer soldier and member of the national guard. long -- they should only be used and in the most urgent and dire of situations.

in one of those situations now and i do not support invoking the insurrection act. host: from james mattis, who from the administration, a statement from in part -- iting

host: doug, newport news, good morning. caller: everyone keeps talking about minorities being killed by police versus the whites. in 2019, 19 unarmed white people were killed by police officers in only 10 people of color will kill -- were killed by police officers. why aren't they reporting all of this? if you eliminate the police department, you have nothing but anarchy. retired navy and i'm ashamed of the country the way it's going right now. you need to use the national guard of these governors are not going to allow these officers to defend themselves when you have these officers shot and they can't defend themselves?

there's something wrong. as far as president trump, and people need to start using that term, and respect of the office, not the person, he is trying to unite. he built this country. he didn't do that. those police officers were charged and i agree, if a police officer killed somebody, it's no different, a thug killing somebody. you charge them out right in .ourt and have the law for it how many people die in chicago everyday and no one says a word aout it because it is not police officer shooting them? it's other gang members shooting them. no matter what. there are good cops and bad cops, good people and bad people . the race relationship in this country, leave it alone in the news media, let the people get along together. host: here's fred from houston, next up. caller: yes, i'm calling in

is calling in, talking about the looters, the riots. but this is about systemic racism. when anyone breaks the law, they go to jail. they get locked up. whatever they do. but i'm so sick and tired of certain people calling in and just talking about the looters. we, we have been seeing, me as a , scared to drive at night. if the police get behind me, i make sure i keep my hands on the steering wheel and everything. but i just want white people to -- i just want

white people to realize that we are, we are scared. is so systemic in this society and trump has made it worse. and i'm tired of people saying that trump is trying to heal this country. he has divided us more than anything. i'm talking about anything. , trying toe lies bring us together. stop covering for this man. people in chicago killing each other. anybody that breaks the law should go to jail. host: at a protest, wj photo

feature is the hash tagged to use.ag to post and former officer from the counterterrorism office, opposing views -- host: jerry is in illinois. good morning. caller: i would like to speak to the reality of the upcoming

trial. as i understand it, and i maybe wrong, but the minimum sentence, nobody is talking about this, for murder to his two years. the minimum sentence for murder three is 12.5 years. in, a hatefix is not these that term, but justice department is involved. i hope that someone who is listening can check out whether this is true or not. host: mike, maryland. caller: your callers, it's great that they are sitting on their soap rocks and coming from a place of no experience. they reference how gangs are more people than the police kill, that's true. but you have to look at the nexus of the gangs in the black community and the nexus, from

california they were formed to protect themselves from another ng that was white and attacking the black community. then the jobs left the community and they turned on themselves. you have these systemic policies, these racist policies in practice and in training that are not overtly racist but by definition are. you have patrol officers training their dogs to attack black culture based on, you know, just the way that black people act. you have decoys that run around, saying the same jargon that the say, the dogsould become more aggressive towards blacks. it's not intentional but it is in the current rectus, with

officers complaining about each other. you have so many eeo complaints on law enforcement oryou have ss experience racism on the job and it isn't handled. these officers go back into the community and we are surprised when things happen. of thist from the start country, this country was founded on racism. it has never been addressed or even allowed -- addressed. black people, we wanted to patrol ourselves. the black panther party, it's what they stood for. originally was agitation and self management, then j edgar hoover came up with dissent. host: you said you came from a law force that perspective. are you an officer? caller: i will give my agency, but yes. host: ok, wanted to do your

background, sounded like you had quite a bit of experience. training, you brought it up, if you could fix one thing in the training of officers, particularly in difficult situations, what would it be? your caller said, a vast majority of all enforcement officers i would say, they have no desire to do harm when they come into work. it's certain situations, certain biases and prejudices that we are all born with the kind of take over certain things. if i had one desire it would be crosstraining. first and foremost, it's always dangerous when you hire outside the community. you have situations where a city could be predominately 70% black , but the police force is 75% white, that's always dangerous. i would cross train my officers.

i would take officers from, say, metropolitan areas and send them to a rural area for eight months to 12 month to work alongside them and vice versa. i would start at the top. we keep blaming commissioners for the problems going on on the street. that's not necessarily the case. i would blame the mayors, governors, i would put more weight on the mayor and the governor. my governor, we are not of the same party, but i voted for this man twice because i believe what he stands for. host: that would be larry hogan in maryland? yes.r: he's the change that maryland needs. we have to get behind a strong governor and a mayor that means more than just name recognition. we have to develop the change that we want to see. we should be raising our kids to be the next mayor's, the next

governors, the next councilmen. we should be bringing up the next generation because we are living in a generation right now that is lost. i'm looking at these protesters and i hear them saying freddie , they arevon martin calling out these names, but after they call out these names they are causing, they are stuck, they don't know what to do next. we need strong leadership. we need the churches to come up. it takes the front lines of people rising and protesting. it's not new. host: mike, going to let you go there, but we appreciate your input. today,ng at the hill more on this later in the program, "rosenstein takes fire from republicans in a he's -- heated testimony, rod rosenstein stepping into the middle of a burgeoning political fight in the senate into the investigation over the russian interference in the 2010 election. "the hearing marked the first time that he testified since

resigning last year -- host: the committee will meet again today. they heard yesterday from rod rosenstein. they will hear today on supporting possible subpoenas looking into the fbi investigation between ties between the trump campaign and russia officials. has a pro forma session that should be brief at 10:00 this morning and then we will go over to the senate judiciary committee. mark's next up in oklahoma city. mark, good morning. we had, if this country is so racist, how did we get a black man elected resident

twice? see the country as far as racism goes, i don't see that it improved during those eight years. in fact i think that race relations went downhill while he was president. i didn't vote for him, but i likeinly didn't trash him democrats trash the president now. before the virus hit, the black unemployment rate was the lowest i think it had ever been. this,s, my last point is no matter how long these protesters do what they are doing, there is going to be another incident in the future involving a police officer and a black man who is killed. either justifiably or unjustifiably. it's going to be called murder. are we going to go through this

every single time something like that happens? i just fear for the future, i really do. host: caller mentioning the warmer president. former president obama yesterday and online town hall talked about the role of law enforcement in protest. [video clip] >> i want to acknowledge the folks in law enforcement that share the goals of reimagining police. because there are folks out there who took their oath to serve your communities, those cops have a tough job and i know you are just as outraged about the tragedy in recent weeks as the protesters and we are grateful to the vast majority of you who protect and serve. i have been heartened to see those in law enforcement recognize, let me march along

with these protesters. let me stand side-by-side and recognize that i want to be a part of the solution. showing restraint, volunteering, engaging and listening. you are a vital part of the conversation. change is going to require everybody's participation. host: a presidential election year, democratic party moved the nominating convention in from july,o august story here from the republicans in open of the washington times," rnc officials ramble, saying that officials were left scrambling after president trump said this week that they were looking for alternate sites for their massive event amid an escalating spat with the democratic governor of north carolina.

host: a couple of comments on facebook and by text. looking at the protests across the country and the further arrest in the george floyd case, from angie --

host: we go next to charlotte, north carolina, to hear from clarence. good morning. caller: how you doing? i want to make a couple of comments. if we take the police out of the lack community, we wouldn't have a black community. during twocalifornia riots. i saw for the black community

did. if you took the police out, there would be a black community. i heard a man call in earlier saying that retired cops get behind him. afraid of what? you are not liking the law. i'm a black man, 68 and raised in the south. raised with the ku klux klan would come into your community and shoot it up. i've never been afraid. youngher raised four black men by herself and taught us one thing, you don't have to be afraid if you are not breaking the law. cops,of my relatives are they have families to. they get shot at, they get talked about and they have a job to do. they feel like just like everybody else, get out there and go to work every day, that's what they do. i can tell you there's some good cops out there and some bad cops. they try to get rid of them, but as a society, especially black people, we got to really work on our community.

we have a lot of problems in our community. i'm a pastor at a church and we go into the community to try to get jobs, feeding the community. we get more leaders to go inside , to help the crime rate, the murder rate in our communities and stop the violence. we need somebody to do something. black folks are strong people. rightjust took that the way, i would promise that we could get a lot done and go farther in this united states. we are not enslaved no more. we are free. freedom means choices and every choice you make you have to live with, but we have to work with each other. as all these black leaders come forward and give money, i asked them to come forward, go into your community. there's a lot of problems out there. i promise you, you will never know the problems unless you get an organization and work with them. host: debbie, alabama, welcome. caller: good morning.

i just wanted to add that i hope that the officers are prosecuted for the death of mr. floyd. from listening to the previous an educatedneed population. i mean educated. we can probably invest police officers, people always bringing the chicago, as far chicago having these shootings and that thenonsense. people like being in the community, even when they strive to be out and beyond. one of the great plays i teach students, ithool delves into the historical discrimination against blacks, trying to uplift themselves in a

way that makes their life better. i think the whole educational about needs to be overall what they know now. it would probably make the elections better with someone who is more representative of the people. host: are the schools going to open up for you in mobile? caller: we are not quite certain . there have been limited instructions since last week and i hope we are able to go back. we were supposed to resume classroom instruction in the last heart of july. now i think that we might return maybe in the later part of august, possibly. all the we have gone through in the last few months, covid-19, protests, unrest, and

election year as you mentioned, what new lesson plan or text would you add to the worse you are teaching your high caller: i teach english, so you try to integrate, you try to translate that. power, corruption. therefore some texts i taught in the past, like malcolm gladwell's novel outliers. about how we have to guarantee certain things for groups in society. dismissing one group, i tell kids see what happens when you have concentrated power, when only a few people benefit and everyone else suffers. you know, one of the themes was

the kingdom being broken at the top. everything else in the society falls apart. howllel that with everything is disjointed at the state, level and every entity, or government is trying to fend for themselves. host: a couple of callers mentioned this about george soros, an alleged flyer from george soros. here is the fact-check from reuters. read that at

reuters.com. they write that the chair of the thurston county democrats slain in a facebook post "false and forced images are being spread nationwide that say you hate to be a professional anarchist -- host: kent, washington, jill, good morning. just had to share a comment made yesterday by van ,ones it was worth up eating stating that if you have a functioning brain stem and a half a pulse, you are shocked, florida, slapped and emotionally wrecked to watch the seven to eight minute murder happened while people were screaming to police to stop and do something. are thaty comments

there are one third who followed the people actions of hitler's, as one third are following the cult of trump. let us not forget that hitler's got his blueprint from america in the way that they treated african-americans through jim crow. -- jealousy, jot domination and rights for distinction. host: philadelphia, we heard from elias. hello there. caller: first of all, i want to give condolences to the floyd family and i want to respondhosd from to the caller from the past in north carolina. lebron james has skill cesspools -- has schools for minorities, will smith. , they stage protests,

stop the violence. 2006, 2009, it was carried by a lot of network. steve, i would like a favor. if you can, show the film given with dr. king was assassinated. a great speech and i think everybody should see it. we can learn a lot from that speech that the late, great on the gave that night assassination of dr. king. it's a great speech. host: i'm not positive, but that may be in our video library as part of our american history tv program. can't say that for sure, but we have covered that, the death of

dr. king and we may have that speech as well. cal is next from cookeville, tennessee. hello there. people 95% of the marching are authentic people, but i remember the riots in detroit. riots, theyd in the had to bring in federal troops. people were shooting at each other. military did their job, they brought a tank in their, they were shooting and they put it right in front of them. that was the end of it. i'm not saying that is what they need to do, but this is a place for they can't control it any longer, these governors and these mayors not doing their job

, that might be a solution. i hope not. god bless all the black people , we are a part of the society and i'm glad to have them. can't have black people like where the unfortunate thing about the whole thing is they destroy their own businesses and have no place to go, shopping for groceries, someone's got to put an end to this. buffalo is next. rachel, good morning. a dirtyi know this is word to some people but i think it comes down to personal responsibility. it should bethat just black lives matter. it should be all lives matter. its,w that every race has you know, has its add history,

but again i think it all comes down to personal responsibility. instead of sitting there and playing the blame game. i mean a met saying that -- i think it was a terrible, horrible thing that happened to mr. floyd, a horrible thing. but i think that if the roles were reversed, it wouldn't be getting as much attention. i really do. again, like i said, i'm not trying to be redundant, but i think it comes down to personal responsibility. thank you for your time, have a good day, god bless. host: 31 years ago today in beijing the world was provided with this in delaware image of the student, the chinese student standing in front of chinese tanks in tiananmen square in beijing. part of the student protests in that city in 1989. one of the reporters that cover

that, nicholas, now a syndicated columnist for "the new york has theand author, he lead editorial today in "the new york times," and he starts the "trump useske this, ." itary to prove manhood it goes like this --

host: steve, springfield, oregon, welcome. thank you for taking my call. i was watching some of the

demonstrations and i noticed particularly people that were .ot there for peaceful reasons their tactics were pretty easy to see. , it was aof people very tall individual, and the second person behind the individual had a cell phone to his ear. they were making directions on how people threw things at the police officers and 20 feet behind them there was a group of three other people that had plastic walls with other liquids in them. i think that when someone like general mattis doesn't have eyes tothe ground, he's not able make a call about how the military should respond. now that in many cities, bricks and rocks have been staged in many areas with devices attached to them. it's not really a peaceful

when you have this ,any people blending in blending in in black, cutting their hair short and wearing rather inconspicuous clothing. has hadsee someone who 50 years of whatever, joining above thery, it's far things that i noticed. that's my comment. the president's press secretary at a briefing yesterday defending the use of federal forces at the white house and the possible use of the insurrection act in providing military troops to protect against protesters. [video clip] >> the president will do what is necessary to protect america and he has made that clear, sending in the national guard is one of

them. he has that ability should he choose to do that. i'm very glad you brought up new york, it's a very clear-cut case .f d.c. and new york d.c. was in chaos when you saw the burning of the church, when the mayor did not set the curfew at 11 p.m. and the president called it unacceptable. he has always preferred giving it to the states, the police power, but when the president saw that on sunday night, he took action immediately. he surged the national guard and encouraged states to accept the national guard and he went on and on with several various factions giving a powerful speech, saying that if you don't act, i will. he noticed the military on hand being necessary. his bold and swift action made a monday night a very different story, in contrast with d.c. on monday night in new york and monday night i'm aware there was

rampant looting, macy's department stores looted. violence in the streets. new york acted in a way that's an appropriate. when they saw the disastrous results in the 11:00 p.m. are few, the president had that he would call antifa a domestic terrorist group. what was new york doing? a resting people on burglary charges and then releasing them after they had arrested them. the week need policies of new york stand in stark contrast to the law and order policies of ins president that succeeded securing this city as we have seen over the last few nights. more national guard troops according to this report, desantis saying he sending 502 d.c. 500 to good morning from alexandria. caller: thank you for taking my

call. i would say that [indiscernible] followers they are holding the bible but they don't get it, they don't read it. , youu are really christian really have to read what they say. human is not afraid of equality. .his is about equality this is about human beings. , iyou really understand that would say all life matters, include -- host: frank, hi there. yes, i'm just calling just go over what has been

,ranspiring over a long time especially for the last few the democrats really have to start listening to somebody else other than democrats. they are lying so bad to you people. they will not follow everything. they just follow their narrative. two older people go to the graveyard the other day. both were shot by black men. do you hear much about that? no. did you see the black men whipping those people with boards during the riots? come on now. what we are looking at on television. everybody has troubles. just get on with your life and stop flying the blues all the time. kevinwe are joined by

baron. we will talk about not only the current role but the history of the u.s. military in quelling civil unrest. later on, national league of cities will be with us to talk about how america's mayors are coping with the covid-19 pandemic and the ongoing unrest in the wake of the death of george floyd. ♪ >> having lived through a loss of confidence in our institutions, waiver cynicism unable to trust anyone who says they are an expert, it becomes difficult for us to rise to a challenge like this. our first reaction is to say they are lying to us. they are only in it for themselves.

a lot of national institutions have got to take on the challenge of persuading people again that they exist for us, that they are here for the country. >> sunday at noon eastern, a live conversation with author and american enterprise institute scholar. his most recent book is "a time to build." join the conversation with your phone calls, tweets, and facebook messages. book tv on c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: with us next is kevin baron, executive editor of defense one. you are here to talk about not just what is currently going on, the use of federal troops, but the history of federal forces in quelling unrest across the united states. your thoughts on what you have seen over the last few days with the federal troops, national

guard, other law enforcement units gathering strength in the nation's capital? guest: gathering strength is a good way to put it. it is most extraordinary. for a lot of us who lived in washington, we are used to seeing security forces and motorcades in secret service. even some military. i have never driven through the city, block after block traffic is stopped and cordoned off by military humvees and desert brown patterns. it is striking. it has revealed a new set of questions, not just about trump, but about -- about the race question and the process, but about the use of the military. the unique relationship between the military and the civilian politician to control them, and the difference between

active-duty troops versus national guard troops, versus all the police and federal law enforcement on the ground. you line walnut begins protesters, they don't always have the same set of rules. they don't have the same set of training or mindset. being a police officer in the community is a lot different than being a soldier trained to go fight wars. host: you are the executive one.r of defense you cover the military and the pentagon and u.s. defense policy. sense it did you get a was going in this direction in terms of the actions president trump would take? else, just like everybody you listened to what trump would tweet. you could tell he was getting frustrated when protests became violent and turned into looting. the way he kept begging the governors or yelling at the governors together national guard out and then threatening

to federalize the national guard and send u.s. troops, which is a final step. we only saw in places like little rock and on the steps of the university of alabama in the 1960's. that was a different set of circumstances. in the 1960's, troops were used to enforce integration, to provide greater freedoms and equality to black americans. in this case -- or to stop violent protests like after the 1968 convention. this time it is a little different. host: tell us about the background of the use of the insurgent act. this 1807 act. what power does it provide the president? when was the last time a president used in the united states? guest: it is supposed to be the kind of escape from the posse, taught us act.

traditionally the military is not allowed to be deployed domestically on u.s. ground to perform law enforcement duties. that is what separates us from living in a kingdom. the king cannot send his troops to quell his subjects. that is why you have that law. the states have national guard. the state governors controller national guard. do you see when the hurricanes come or natural disasters or some cases like this. the president can evoke the insurrection act to take control of the state national guard's, or he can send federal u.s. troops, active-duty into the united states to perform law enforcement duties. that is a big difference. the u.s. military has been a ploy to the u.s. border with theyo on u.s. soil, but are not performing law enforcement duties. they cannot arrest someone.

they can provide logistical help. they can provide intelligence through surveillance from the sky. it really is a legal question of what the are allowed to do. host: we read a report that florida governor ron desantis is sending 500 troops to d.c. what other states haven't asked to send national guard -- have been asked to send national guard. why would additional troops be needed? guest: because the president wants more. he called for thousands and thousands. we have not been able to ascertain exactly how many troops have come to the city. they will not reveal it. it is a lot. i don't know about thousands and thousands. there are a lot in the city. d.c. is unique. mayor can't control or make the decision of whether or not to allow the guard coming in. national capital

region is in control the district because it is a unique spot. it is not a state away zone. that is why see the mayor tweeting out statehood. the longtime political battle for the citizens of washington. this is why we need statehood so others can send their people here. esperinitially -- mark asked the governors of virginia, maryland, pennsylvania, and new york to send national guard and they declined. they are democratic governors. other states were willing to send them. one of the biggest groups was from utah. a special operations unit. they look like they might be active-duty. they are not. they are from a national guard unit, which is another point we are saying. people on the street, most americans don't know the difference between a national guardsmen and an active duty soldier on the street. it is not that simple.

not that it matters to them. it is still troops on a city street and that's a pretty shocking site. host: have some governors turned down the request from the white house? guest: virginia, maryland, pennsylvania and new york initially, the democratic governors. host: kevin barrett is the executive editor defense one. we are talking about the federal guard troops in the nation's capital and the insurgent act. is the line to call for republicans. (202) 748-8000 free democrats. forree democrats -- democrats. everyone else, (202) 748-8002. photosper accompanies the from tuesday. "trump finally gets the work he wanted." there is the defense secretary and the chairman of the joint chiefs. what did you mean by getting the work he wanted? -- war he wanted?

guest: we have been tracking this for a long time. does trump early want to pull out of afghanistan and iraq or does he once of the different? he says he does but he deployed more troops into those theaters. for places like syria, north korea, iran. trump is the kind of politician and leader that says i don't want to have these big wars and troops overseas, but where there are bad guys we will go get them. to do that you have to have troops overseas. he is conflicted with war. this is a division even jim mattis was talking about in his extraordinary comment last night to say this president lives off of stoking division. he loves to poke the left and poke the media. he loves to fire up his base with the most extreme partisan views and comments. he said directly to leslie stahl he knows what he is doing. he is saying things like fake

news to undercut the credibility of the media when they criticize him. division he thinks is good for his politics. give for his reelection chances. i assume he thinks it is good for america. that is what he wants, everything the far-right is calling for. host: in addition to d.c. and minnesota, where else is the national guard called up? guest: we have seen them out in los angeles. i saw a decent group there. i believe miami. i am not exact the shirt. i have been -- i am not exact the shore. i have been focused on washington. host: let me play the comments of the defense secretary yesterday. you may have heard this but i want to play it for you and get your thoughts on what mark esper had to say. [video] >> at times, united states military has been asked to help

maintain law and order so other americans can exercise their rights free from violence against themselves or their property. that is what thousands of guardsmen are doing today in cities across america. it is not something we seek to do, but it is our duty. we do it with the utmost skill and professionalism. i was reminded that monday as i visited our national guardsmen on duty monday night protecting our most hallowed grounds and monuments. i am very proud of the men and women of the national guard who are out on the streets performing this important task, and in many ways at the risk of their own welfare. i have always believed and continue to believe the national guard is best suited for performing to mastech support to civil authorities -- domestic support to civil authorities in these situations. in support of local law enforcement.

i say this not only a secretary of defense, but as a former soldier and a former member of the national guard. the option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and direst situations. -- dire situations. we are not in one of those situations them. i do not support invoking the insurrection act. presidentn baron, the was not too happy with those comments by his defense secretary. guest: that was quite extraordinary. we in the press corps were waiting for esper to make it, the about his appearance in that photo op opportunity and clearing the park on monday night and showing up there. instead he turned it into -- he did a little bit of spin. he said we in the military took an oath to the constitution to support the constitution. he repeated it. i have seen this from other

commanders. that is a clear signal to the united states from him saying we are not the army of president trump. we are the army of the constitution. this is the rule of law. lots of military commanders who served under trump have tried to say it. you may not like what trump is asking us to do, but it is the law he is allowed to do. until it is illegal or immoral i am going to do it. the moral question can be debated. host: go ahead. guest: the second part on race. it was extraordinary that he also said yesterday he sent a memo out to the force. this is a time of unity. the country needs to come together. racism is real. systemic racism is real. these are things that it is extraordinary the commanders felt must be said.

-- all livesther matter. we have to do better by the black brothers and sisters in the united states military. he is catching a little criticism for waiting so long. he could have said this last week or friday. the military was not really drawn into this so acutely until the weekend. after 48 hours, the secretary of defense put out a statement. you saw statements from the fleet commanders in europe and africa. admiral harry harris put out a similar statement. ming. is a lot of cal languagesme president trump. we see everything he says and his team says about disunity and staunch, hard security lines. much more focused on security than unity in finding solutions

on the civil problems being protested. host: we want to remind viewers and listeners we set aside a line for those of you who are active-duty military. that line is (202) 748-8003. before we go to calls a quick look at the comments of our guest. generals must follow lawful orders such as helping to enforce curfews and venting lawful protest from turning violent. if trump can enlist or appear to enlist the military and his scorched-earth campaign against his enemies, he threatens to undercut more than the military's reputation with his conspiracy theory claims that the election is already raked against him. trump threatens to undermine american democracy." marvin is retired military in chattanooga. thank you for being with us. caller: thank you so very much. as a retired military person, a

vietnam veteran, on the most decorated company clerk of the vietnam war. may 25 is my day in tennessee. in 1969 and saw in 1970 every college student -- the essays government shooting at their own people. children. togod, they will do this white people. what will they do to any other race? beenhe things that have changed around as far as race relationships, as far as threats, it has been totally -- by the president of the united states. isthis particular period, it leading us to a civil war. him in hise to ask this person -- this disbursement of troops of black

neighborhoods, what happened at michigan when you're armed ofizen's stood in the face authority? host: thank you for being with us this morning. any thoughts? guest: thank you for calling in. it is an honor to hear from you. this is a frequent complaint i have seen. clearly armed protesters who are white stood at the state capital. the president said they have a great right to protest and you should listen to them. the police did not show up and in riot gear. they looked like they were in normal uniforms. i think it is a little bit of apples and oranges because that protest -- they may have been armed, but there was not citywide and nationwide looting and fires and violence, which is what happened this time around. response the police was to the violence.

what has changed in the last few days as we are seeing security services like police and the guard who were pushing out peaceful protesters. we are six or seven days into it. they are worried the protests are going to explode when nightfall comes into violence because that is what cat happening -- kept happening in some cities, including washington. there is a difference between the statehouse in lansing and the white house. there is security around the white house like no other. some were surprised they allowed such a large gathering of protesters on lafayette park on the weekend, even though it is kind of a location of traditional protesting. you see it all the time there. but not at that level, and not after days and days of violence in other cities. you assume it would be violence, why let them be there? boy, did trump take the ball

and run with it. it is a pendulum. marvin is right. the way the white protesters armed up were treated differently than black protesters who were unarmed, initially. frankly, things are different this week. host: ed in lawrenceville, georgia. caller: good morning. think you i know you are at the prime of your life with your blackbeard and everything. i find you to be a little delusional. some of the things you write, some of the things you say. first of all, i would like you to know -- i know this will not get through to you. i -- are a public republic, not a democracy. i hope you could look that up. the think i wanted to tell you was your portrayal of president trump in this whole deal is so

twisted because i don't think you realize we are facing people that are using explosives. they are hitting police officers on the head with heavy fire extinguishers. they are stabbing police in the neck. these are our families. ok, mr. smiley? you think you know everything but you don't know what is going on. host: we will get a response from our guest. guest: i appreciate that call. i think there is a lot of frustration, like the caller has. when the violence broke out, -- the conspiracies come out. you heard a lot of people on the left going it has to be white extremists. when people on the right cannot and said it has to be antifa.

even when federal law enforcement comes out, it is not elected politicians, but they say there are antifa here. we started to see video of some anarchist left-wing folks causing trouble. white people causing trouble. inserting themselves into the middle of a black crowd and making it look bad. it has become a big, giant mess. there is a call for much larger security services, especially in minnesota at the beginning. they should have been allowed to do that. in my own city of washington, saturday was the first big night of violence. this is a city of security everywhere. there are so many security forces. park police, secret service, fbi. look up governmentexecutive.com. they have a piece about how many federal law enforcement is in the city. that first night they were not

there. they were a few blocks from the white house. the leaders has had to walk over and start smashing windows and spray painting. they were tagging the city from georgetown east to the convention center and beyond. i reported that. i tweeted that. there is a circle called thomas circle named after a civil war general from the south from virginia. he went to west point, fought for the union, and led black soldiers against the confederacy. he is a hero of black freedom in the south, at least he should be, but he is one more general on a statue in washington. i would not expect most people to know that. i did not even know what statue that was my own city. the irony is there. when you are frustrated, people do what they want to do. i appreciate the call by a lot of americans, not right or left, but americans who want more security to stop the violence. nobody wants to see windows get

smashed or things get burned or people getting shot, especially law enforcement officers who are supposed to be protecting us. we are seeing a change the last couple of days where the protests are becoming more peaceful. a lot more officers are reaching across the line to them. we are seeing hugs and hopefully that is the trend we continue on. host: this is bob, retired military. glad to have you with us. caller: thank you. it is my understanding that the president called for the use of riops to stop writin -- oting, but not to control or stop peaceful protesters. which is what the times article said. it sounded like he was using the military to stop peaceful protesting. i don't think that was the idea. right,i think you are but that is how it happened. it started with the money i

clearing of lafayette park. national guardsmen were part of that. at first we were not sure but it has been confirmed. it is not like the troops the president wanted to state separate from the rest of the forces. they were called in together. it's a little later in the week, but that was not what we saw earlier. they were definitely co-mingling. -- ater saying we support lot of them are saying we support peaceful protest but we will not stand for violence and destruction. the difficulty is that a lot of things happen in the same place. take st. john's church on monday night. the evening before peaceful protesters were in the park, the street, and the church. that same group of people are the ones who were lighting fires one block away, pushing

garbage cans and dump service the police and guardsmen. they were spray painting the church, breaking windows. had used engl -- how do you distinguish between quelling the virus or dispersing the crowds when it all is happening at the same place? host: i heard from the mayor's news conference yesterday that d.c. police tuesday night did arrest some 200 looters that they encountered. lincolnton, north carolina. jenny, you are on with kevin baron. caller: hey. i am for law and order. that is what this program is about. i don't like what is going on in new york. i don't like the governor and i don't like anything that's going on where they are letting everything happen. i think you do have to call in help. i think it should have been stopped by now.

i want to ask you. someone said about the justice system. they want quick justice. my thing i want to bring up is the quick justice for trump. the three years of lies, the russian hoax, mueller. the investigation. a white man, our president of the united states, and look how long it is taking. now maybe finally it will come out and the truth will be heard. where is the protest for that? if it was obama, i want to know what kind of protest it would be. wouldn't last for three years if it was obama? with charlottesville, i am not forgetting when trump said there are good people in the crowd and the media went nuts. everything was against trump for saying good people in a bad crowd. now all of a sudden we have good people in a bad crowd, and the media is like yeah, good people. my thing is bring out the military.

bring out whoever you have to bring up and stop all this crap with looting and breaking windows. floyd.ot about this time it was quick justice, and still everything is happening. in, dond it, bring them what you have to do and stop the windows and he was going to pay for all the damage -- who is going to pay for all the damage? guest: there is somebody right down the middle. she is calling for more security forces, which is what trump pointed earlier. it has become more of a talking port on the right than the left. at the same time she is asking, how was trump able to get away with being trump for three years? it never would have happened if it was obama. it sounds like she is angry at trumpet supporting him in this sense. -- trump and supporting him in this sense. we are seeing that a lot right

now, especially from republican supporters or even former nottary who have tried to come out against the president. but this week they said enough is enough. guys like the former chairman of the joint chiefs. general mattis. they work for trump and said nine month ago a general should not get involved with something like this. he said enough is enough, i have to speak out. people are speaking out and calling for law and order, just like she asked for. host: the headline from "the wall street journal." former defense secretary jim mattis says trump tries to divide us. donald trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not tried to unite the american people. a statement from the former defense secretary. a question for you. he says, the recent shootings at military bases, terrorist attacks, already had military

units on high alert. prior to the current round of protests. how is this influencing current military planning and operations? i don't know that they are on high alert, but more aware of mass shootings and those kind of incidents happening. how this is changing things? in't forget, we were all covid lockdown, including the military. so the military was supposed to be quarantined or isolating and being safe and wear masks. it is especially so in the military, where troops need to be at the ready. what had been changed was, if your unit was going to get call to afghanistan, you had to do your 14 days of quarantine before you were allowed to go into the theater because they don't want to bring the virus over. the same in reverse. now with the domestic emergency

and needing troops to get caught up quickly, it's just as troubling to see protesters, masks or not masks, coming together in the middle of a pandemic. the same is true with security forces. they are shoulder to shoulder with each other as well. so, i think that's one thing. this will affect readiness of all the units that have been deployed into the cities. longer-term, it goes back to what i said earlier about these messages to the force about race. the is the second time in trump administration that the joint chiefs have felt they needed to weigh in on domestic social issues and to send a message to the force. the other time they did it was charlottesville. a racially charged, white versus black, protests got out of hand. this time it has been a much deeper call. we often say the military is a reflection of society.

in lots of ways. this is one of them. finally you are seeing something extraordinary. generals having to write these notes saying, they are not just saying all lives matter and we have to be harder on security. they are saying we support the constitution, we support the rights to protest. these are legitimate grievances. it is systemic, and we need to change. not just for the civilians we are protecting and the country, but for our own kind, for the military. which is heavily populated with minorities. that's one way he will see change that is lasting because of these events. host: let's see if we can get one more call for you. claudia in tallahassee, florida. caller: yes, i have a problem with the president equating people who vandalize buildings that probably have heavy insurance and equating those people to the taliban and isis

by sending in american troops to kill them, to quell them. that is ridiculous. that is un-american. how can you ignore the importance of protests but quell that protest when it is hijacked by looters and vandalized -- people who vandalize? host: i will let you go there. thank you for that. kevin barron, any final thoughts? guest: she's right. that is the frustration many have and that's the story we journalists are following. the difference between trump ordering troops and the white house and officials saying that those troops and national guard are there to protect the right to protest and to stop and protect any violence on property or people, it's one thing to say it, it's another thing to see it. unfortunately, that monday night

event and others when we see those security services forcibly stopping demonstrations, even after curfew, for example, and just marching right through. walk the walk, talk the talk. it didn't match the rhetoric. i think it has changed a little bit. last night i posted lots of good images of peaceful protests, people singing. i think it was in seattle, even lifted their curfew because the protests were so peaceful i didn't want to disperse them. that is a real change for the positive. hopefully your on me the downside, the backside of this whole thing and violence will decline. host: our washington journal listeners and viewers can follow continued coverage at defenseone.com. we appreciate you being with us this morning. guest: thanks for having me on. host: up next, the senate

judiciary midi hearing to look at the origin of the russian investigation by the fbi in 2016. headline from bloomberg, rosenstein defends russian probe. here are the lines for .epublicans, (202) 748-8001 democrats, (202) 748-8000. and independents, (202) 748-8002 we will be right back. ♪ >> with the federal government at work, use the congressional directory for contact information for members of congress and federal agencies. order your copy online today at

c-spanstore.org. washington journal contains. host: we will get to your calls momentarily. you can always send us a text, (202) 748-8003. make sure you tell us your name and where you are texting from. i showed you the headline a moment ago, but just want to read at little bit from their reporting of yesterday's hearing. , whot rod rosenstein oversaw the russia investigation went before senators to defend the need for the probe i like knology early mistakes in its execution. thats an assessment clashed with allegations by judiciary committee chairman lindsey graham and other republicans that donald trump was a victim of anti-trump forces in the fbi and justice department or than three years ago, that tainted the

investigation. and whether anyone close to trump was included in it. is, when you made this appointment, the people named in it, there is zero evidence they were working with the russians. zero. this went on for two years. 25 million dollars and people had their lives turned upside down. that general flynn and 2017, the fbi agents had been looking at him said they recommended he be buddyd and our good old strom said the seventh floor wants to look at him. if you had known that, would you have asked more questions? >> yes. ok. anyway, thank you for your service. knowing what you know, do you have any reservations about making me mueller appointment,

having the fact that all the people named in this scope letter, there is zero evidence -- twoary -- may 20 17th 2017 they were working with the russians? >> the investigation was appropriate. whether it was appropriate to sign it to mr. miller. the decision i made was based on the information i had at the time. >> i'm not arguing with you about assigning it to molar -- to mueller. was there any reason to believe the people named in this letter were actively working with the russians in august 2017? >> in august 2017? >> that is when you signed the memo. >> my understanding is that there was. >> what was it? again, the investigation is concluded and these people were not conspiring with the russians. the information available at the time --

>> we have to mueller investigation at all if we concluded they weren't working with the russians? >> i don't believe we had concluded it at the time. hadanuary 2017 the fbi discounted flynn. there was no evidence carter page work with russians. papadopoulos is all over the place, not knowing he is being reported denying working with the russians. nobody has ever been prosecuted for working with russians. the point is, the whole concept that the campaign was colluding with the russians, there was no there there in august 2017. do you agree with that general statement? >> i agree with that general statement. host: president trump tweeting a number of statements about the hearing. this is one of them. president,rom the the witchhunt should never have begun. (202) 748-8001 four republicans.

(202) 748-8000 four democrats. independents and others, that line (202) 748-8002. let's go to allen in brooklyn. caller: good morning. spiked the off eustachian by mr. graham and others on that side, it was well established by the mueller report that there was improper conduct by anna afford, stone, flynn, and others on behalf of russian interests in swaying the election toward the president. the question of whether or not there might have been technical defects in the process leading to those investigations does not negate the validity of the evidence they found. which brings me to my main point. we have something called the miranda ruling. which says that if you have not been given a reading of your rights at the time you begin to speak to police, any evidence

they can obtain from you that could help convict you when you did not have a reading of your rights could be excluded from the trial and you could be found innocent on that technicality. so, the question here is, are we talking about the absolute absence of a fault on the part of trump and his campaign in dealing with the russians? on the evidence itself? are we talking about technical flaws in reaching that actual evidence? if they want to claim that that evidence should be excluded from the public's mind because there were some technical flaws at the fbi, i would like to adopt a similar rule about the entire trump residency and say, if he obtained his presidency through the interference of the russians, then he is the same kind of fruit of a poisoned tree as the evidence that in a miranda case would be called the fruit of a poisoned evidence year research. if you can do that evidence, the

entire president xi should be excluded -- presidency should be excluded. if you want to exclude the results of a poisoned process, the entire presidential election of trump was a poisoned process. and that fruit should be extricated. host: to our republican line. eric, good morning. caller: good morning. first things first, i would like to address what general mattis said there a second ago about trump dividing the country. it has been the democratic party for 30 years that has said that i'm a racist, a bigot, a klansman. that all of want to do is get up in the morning and put my foot the throat of a black man. i would say democrats are at the highest of dividing this country. as for russia, i would like to remind all the democrats who have enriched themselves through

china that it wasn't russia that that turned detroit into a ghost town. it was china that took our jobs. that put people out of work. now we have a democratic party that first brought up a pandemic to shut down the economy, to destroy a president. now that we find out the economy is going to come back like a gang buster, that we are going to have race riots. host: terry, do you think the pandemic was the doing of the democratic party? caller: i'm starting to think that. we heard at the beginning of this that it was china that started it. the unitedrd that states -- china said the united states brought this in over there. did the democrats bring this pandemic? host: we are talking about the hearings happening with rod

rosenstein. today the senate judiciary committee looking into the origin of the fbi probe. more testimony begins at 10:00 a.m., right after the house pro forma session. there will be a brief pro forma session at 10:00. that will follow with the judiciary committee. sarasota florida, good morning. caller: thank you for being to givee for the public direct, on opinionated -- and opinionated news. i'm happy they are having this hearing. what is happening to president trump, carter page, general plan, this could happen to anyone of us. when the might of the government is turned against private citizens, we are all at risk. i first felt it during the irs

probe when lois lerner targeted conservative americans. that was when we got the first hint that our government was being corrupted to actually be used against us. so, i do think we need to get to the bottom of this entire probe. who started it, when did they start it, and did they do everything legally? that i think that -- i think that cya memo gives you a good indication that this was rotten. to behink it needs exposed. we don't serve them. that is about all i have to say. host: president trump tweeting this morning about the hearing yesterday and saying this in one of his tweets. wheeler should never have been appointed, although -- he did

prove that i should be the most honest man in america. the ranking member is dianne feinstein of california. she asked rod rosenstein yesterday about the legitimacy of the mueller investigation. >> can you identify any findings in the 448 page report that relies on information from the dossier? >> i don't believe there is any such information. >> can you identify which of the 199 criminal counts reveling from death resulting from the mueller investigation relies on information from the steele dossier? >> i don't believe it was relied upon for indictments. >> thank you. can you identify investigative steps taken by mueller that relied on information in the

dossier? answersld not know about that with regard to individual steps. >> thank you. this special counsel mueller expressed concern that fbi or doj officials had unfairly targeted the president or his campaign for investigation? >> i never had the discussion with mr. mueller. >> did he indicate there was not a legitimate reason to investigate ties between the trump campaign and russia? >> he never indicated there was not a general reason to complete the investigation. >> did you ever have any concerns that his investigation was a legitimate, biased, unfairly targeted the president or his campaign? >> i talked with mr. mueller about ensuring there was no bias in the investigation. we had an issue with one of the agents and another fbi employee

working on the case. i talked with mr. mueller at that time and about the importance of making sure everybody on his investigation understood, whatever their political views, they needed to set that aside and make sure it was not affected by any bias. >> do you believe that was carried out? >> i do because i have confidence in mr. mueller's integrity. >> do you believe the investigation was a hoax or witchhunt or a deep state conspiracy? >> i do not believe the investigation was a hoax, but with regard to the nature of the allegations, those allegations are coming from other sources. i cannot vouch for the allegations. you signed off on all significant steps in the mueller investigation. was that because you believed them to be legitimate and supported by the evidence? >> everything i approved, yes. nothing came to my attention i

thought was illegitimate. host: report on the hearing by "the washington times." rod rosenstein said wednesday he would never have signed off on a surveillance warrant for trump campaign advisor carter page if he had known about the fbi's terrorist innovations. he faulted obama era officials for misleading him about the warrant's accuracy. a tweet. the swamp is trying to justify their investigation that tied trump's hands for months, years. randy in millington, michigan. the russia investigation is a three shelti game. you will never find the ball. china did not destroy the auto industry. people that bought cheap chinese , japanese, and foreign cars destroyed the auto industry. those are the true americans, i guess. jan says blame the ceos who make billions. senatorm rights --

graham knows the investigation was played for itself. marietta, georgia. we hear from bradley. good morning. caller: can you hear me? host: you are on the air. caller: my name is bradley. i am calling for marietta. i would like to say that trump and roger stone and paul manafort -- hello? host: go ahead. caller: paul manafort and jared kushner are the reason why there is no hard evidence he did it. the people involved would rather sit in jail instead of cooperate. trump look -- look how he kimled pruden and -- putin, jong-un and the dude from china. his daughter is getting trademarks that are worth millions of dollars.

i want america to wake up and listen to these republicans calling. those of the people right now in charge. they are insane. they think democrats are the ones who unleashed the pandemic on the planet. when donald trump, if he would have acted a couple of weeks before when he was praising xi jinping and he could have acted. kushner, theared one trump listens to -- trump is a russian acid. he is bought and paid for. it is saudi arabia and israel. they both conspired with russia to put trump in. look at what he has done for all three of those countries. he was to get putin to come to the g7 conference. he is so ridiculously nice to our enemies. e3 tar allies like garbage -- he treats our allies like garbage. i want americans to go and vote this november. host: trump promises stone will

not serve prison time. he can sleep well at night. they are reporting the president on thursday promises longtime political advisor roger stone would not serve time in prison. revealing he can sleep well at night. reprising his fiery criticism of robert mueller's probe as we have shown you some of his tweets this morning. lakeland, florida. peter is next on the independent line. caller: good morning. good job in these crazy times. to really understand the russia life and how it evolved -- lie and how it evolved, you need to bring aaron mckay on or jimmy dorr. we went through two years of this. they were right from day one. they were interviewing guys like the genius at the nsa. none of the corporate media was. ist to give you an example,

was listening to the hearings on the radio yesterday. i was amazed that the united states senators who were still running with the russia lie that the stolen emails from the d&c c went tossange -- dn a sound. crowd strike, who handled the servers -- not the fbi. if this is national security, the fbi should. they went with the lie. it was a coup. when they know when the ceo testifies there is no evidence that anybody hacked those emails. it is case closed. you can say israel did it north korea did it. they are going with the russia keep, like your previous

caller, who says trump is in bed with putin. i am 54 years old. i never voted for a republican. why could i see the light in the propaganda? -- lie in the propaganda? host: brunswick, georgia. you are on the line. go ahead. otis, are you there? murphy. shreveport, louisiana. caller: good morning. response.ng in , remember during the election they said they'd never even heard of a russian. a fed 100 contacts with the russians. i wanted to know if trump talked to the russians. who are the people they were in

contact with? was it don jr.? they don't say the name. they just say they were behind the contact. we did not know who they were contacting. they let the whole mueller report come out. everybody knows executive with mueller said. they tried to discredit muell er so they could say it was a hoax. they were doing their job. that is what the cia is for in the fbi is for. they made a mistake to get to this point, but carter page -- not carter page. to guy writing this emails the girlfriend and boyfriend, they now have -- they don't have any control. this ticket man can become

president. -- they see a good man can't become president. now he would get tweeted to death. the republicans were in charge. for the mueller in investigation, nothing democrats. the democrats just wanted to see what mueller found. he found a whole lot. exonerated and had the whole report twisted and stuff. he needs to be brought up on charges. host: thanks to your call. the report on the vaccine front for covid-19. white house narrows vaccine candidates to five companies. moderna,companies are which is expected into the final phase of clinical trials next month. the combination of boxer university and astrazeneca on a similar schedule.

-- oxford university. johnson & johnson, merck and pfizer are taking different approaches. .ext to (202) 748-8002 heidi from brooklyn. the doj asked the supreme court to block the house democrats from viewing the unredacted mueller report. barr has blocked the report. how can we state a true conclusion of election tampering if we cannot review the whole report? onight, tonight, deny -- deny, deny, deny is the trump mantra. vanessa in fountain alan in washington, d.c. pleadedaded --flynn guilty, period. bernard? caller: hi sir.

i was watching lindsey graham's committee. he has no credibility. with the two people -- the two agents working the case were saying trump was an idiot. he seemed so upset by that but lindsey graham himself has said this, that president trump is an idiot. i don't know why he is getting upset with that. also, at one time during the investigation they started flynn jill stein and mike was at putin's table. they are going too far these conspiracies now. when they show them actually at putin's table prior to the election, wow, how deep does this stuff really go?

--non't get that note pu putin's table and russia without serious connections. they both was there. with trump having the russians in the oval office and smiling and kicking at all the american officials, that shows the connection right there. then you have manafort. there are too many russians involved. that man is definitely at least a russian asset. everybody knows it. host: jim in monroe, michigan. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my phone call. i don't know who that klein was that spoke a minute ago. trump is the best president we've ever had. i would lay my life down for that man. now the truth has come down and they can handle it. thank you for taking my call, sir. host: coming up at 10:00, we will show that hearing. ahead on "washington journal

georgia, will talk about how america's mayors are coping with covid-19 and the aftermath of the george floyd killing. later, congressman kelly armstrong will talk about those protests and about the senate review of the fbi probe and other issues the house judiciary committee will be taking ♪ ♪ president's," from public affairs. available in paperback and e-book. presents biographies of every president, organized by their ranking. from best to worst. intoeatures perspectives the lives of our nation's chief executives and leadership styles.

order your copy today, wherever books and e-books are sold. >> washington journal continues. next guest not only wearing a hat, he wears two hats. he is the mayor of union city, georgia. and also the second vice president for the national league of cities. vince williams, thank you for being with us. guest: thank you for having me this morning. city,tell us where union georgia is. how big is it? guest: union city is approximately 10 minutes south of the great city of atlanta. we have a population of a little less than 25,000 great people. about 19.6 square miles. we are nestled 67 minutes away from hearts phil jackson

international airport. -- hartsville-jackson international airport. what is that organization's mission? guest: the mission of the national league of cities is to leaders.m for local to be able to understand and also navigate through many of the issues that most of us don't get an education on. don't go to school to be an elected official. certainly, with the help of the national league of cities and all of the great opportunities they have to share with many resources, to be able to navigate your many complex issues that drive it also can impact our cities from day-to-day. it gives you insight as to how to have conversations with the

federal leaders, state leaders. but also, most importantly, were constituents as well. i have been a benefactor of the national league of cities for a number of years. as ast got elected in 2007 city councilmember and became the mayor in any 13. it has been a phenomenal opportunity for me, but also i am blessed to where the second vice president hat of the national league of cities. host: mayor williams on with us this morning to talk about issues facing cities -- not just cities, but the entire nation, the protests happening in cities and the ongoing covid-19 pandemic. we welcome your calls and comments at (202) 748-8001 four republicans. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents and others, (202) 748-8002. you mentioned you are just south of the atlanta area.

of the spinoffme of what is happening in atlanta. first on the covid-19 pandemic. give us a snapshot of what it is like in your community. inst: in my community, i am , the dominanty community of caller, if you will. as it relates to covid-19, i am aware it is considered -- i have a vulnerable population. my city is made up of a population of seniors who have retired to this area because of its proximity to atlanta, it also to the airport. covid-19, we have been impacted like many cities with closures of non-essential businesses. many have started -- georgia was one of the first states to open

up. i tell you certainly, i am one of the first to celebrate the generating economy. i can't support it right now because my area, my citizenry, and many of those that are around me, any of the other cities around me, and just like me are not ready because our numbers are not scaling down at all. our numbers are gradually rising each and every day. primarily because there is more testing being done. we are thankful for that. however, when you start the testing, we were going to start getting positive numbers. that's a good thing, that it is also an alarming thing because we have a lot of people who are not adhering to the information from the cdc, and also our department of health, by utilizing those of like safety adherence is and protections. it has greatly impacted us from

an economic standpoint and we certainly see it from a health standpoint. host: after the killing of george floyd, tell us your personal reaction, but also how he reacted as mayor in terms of anticipating potential protests, potential unrest there in union city. guest: i'm going to speak to the protests. certainly, the first amendment speaks to that. peaceable protests. certainly i am a supporter of that, have always been an advocate of that. i had the great pleasure, i was born and raised in memphis. i certainly recall a number of protests around the time dr. extremelyher king was vocal and prominent as it relates to protest. but never did he drive a protest to rioting and looting. that is when you lose the message of what the issues are.

get to a placean where we can sit down and have real conversations. certainly, there is a conversation that needs to be had in this nation. i hope that our federal leaders are paying attention, but also i hope our federal leaders are extending a listening ear to be able to know and hear and understand the plight of people of caller, especially african-americans. aere is and has been disproportionate amount of injustice and we must address that. host: i think we may have lost your audio for a moment, but we will ask you this for we get calls. you, as the national league of cities, what is the national league of cities on covid-19, and the federal government, what are you asking of the federal government? in terms of legislative response, funding, etc. guest: the national league of

cities, have what is called a campaign. a simple, that is approach called cities are essential. certainly, the federal government has come out with the cares act, certainly has started dispersing direct funding to a number of cities and states, and even counties. if you are not a city that has a population of 500,000 or more, you got nothing. certainly, we have been out of the equation and that lifeline remains available -- unavailable to us. it is unlikely to ever be available. one of the things we are doing, we are pushing that the federal the coronavirus relief funds for all minister polities to be able to address the issues that we are all impacted by because this is not

just a big-city issue. this is an every city issue. certainly i applaud those 36 cities because there are only 36 cities in this nation that meet that criteria. that means the rest of the doesd states, apparently, not mean anything to our federal leaders. i hate to say that, but that is what it appears to be. they getake sure that an understanding that their hometowns and those people basic support as we elect them, they have really given them a slap in the face. that they don't matter. host: one quick question. to be clear, we talked about governor kemp and the reopening in georgia. there in union city you have chosen not to reopen on the scale that the rest of the state is. businesses of our that were considered non-essential, i have spoken to

a number of my business owners and they have decided that they were not ready to open. there were not prepared. many of my businesses, which are small businesses, and certainly honorable men and women who scraped to do all they could to start their businesses, they don't have the financial support to be able to take care of some of the small things, such as making sure they have all the safety measures in place, such as masks or sanitizing stations and different things like that. theiraking sure that employees that work for them, that they are taking care of. an event such as cobit -- this is something that is enough those 100-year markers. certainly with cobit here, it is going to impact many cities like union city around this country of our small

businesses will not have the capacity to bounce back. we have taken the approach that if we can get the federal government to assist cities that are under the 500,000 population marker, we can navigate through some of that funding to be able to assist some of our small businesses that need the assistance to be able to reopen and also to be able to get back on their seat -- back on their feet. --will start with peter in host: we will start with peter. caller: a big thank you to everyone at c-span and a big thank you to everyone on the front lines and people who do the right thing in times of trial and difficulty. i want to say that, i think we should recognize the awesomeness of a lot of america's mayors. who haver people

governors and mayors that are not more thoughtful. my main concern is that, in looking that there may be a ,econd wave by whatever cause you know, we are looking at a potential second wave. i'm concerned the federal government will penalize america's governors and mayors and people in urban areas and all of us in general. takeworried that they will the stance we see from police, the aggressive first, dominate, at that kind of gave your with the citizenry. i'm worried the federal government does that all the time to our mayors and governors who are trying to do right by the people. thanks -- host: thanks for the call. vince williams. any thoughts on what our caller had to say? guest: certainly what the caller stated is true.

there are many leaders around this nation that are doing the right thing. certainly we must at all times do our best and strive our hardest to do the right thing. the national league of cities, we are one of the organizations, if not the only organization, that has created an opportunity for local leaders to understand how to navigate through this issue of racial equity, but also leadership. -- that is real something that many of us need to have a discussion around. that is, understanding the race, the equity, and the leadership that needs to be supported in all communities. the reopen program provides training and resources to bear -- prepare heaters to provide a racial equity lends to policies, to certainly drive initiatives

and programs, and even your budget. city leaders must take the lead with their police departments and community members to address racial inequities and their respective cities -- in their respective cities and towns. that is one of the positives that the national league of cities has been doing for many, many years. we are about to approach our hundred-year. and leadershipy, department has resources available at only two but also community members as well. from cindy inar hendersonville, north carolina. caller: good morning. i'm concerned about the protests. 1968 against the vietnam war. i was with a black man, and i'm white. theot discriminated against

black community for being together. that theoncern is protests, which i believe in protests, it is our right to protest, but what effect is this going to have with cobit? you shut down -- covid. shut down all of the cities. they shut down all of the businesses. and now all of the protesters are out there. most of them are wearing masks, but they are singing and shouting like i did in 1968 and there masks are off and they are spitting on people by accident. they are not doing it on purpose. how is this going to affect our cobit if we have a second wave? my small business to get assistance. we are under 55,000. maybe it is the way that you are addressing the government to try to get the money. i don't know, but my small

business got money and we are in a very small town. my concern is about a second wave of the covid. host: mayor williams? guest: cindy makes a lot of great comments, but what i have to say first as it relates to she receiving support from the federal government -- and i applaud that and i am glad you did get it. unfortunately, this proportionately, a lot of small business owners are not as astute when it comes to putting together the necessary information on applications and forms. any of them just don't qualify. certainly we have to look at that. qualifyause you don't doesn't mean that your business should not still be supported. we are working with the number of our businesses who have had that challenge by reaching out to the small business administration. but also not even receiving the

ppp that other businesses have. i have some businesses that have been able to navigate through that, that i have a larger proportion that have not received anything. certainly to cindy's comment about the protests, i'm not concerned about the protesters as long as it is a peaceable protest. what i'm concerned about are those that are inserting wherelves into protests they are not there for the protests. they are there to wait tonight for, to attack, to loot, and pillage. those are the people and those of the individuals i am concerned about. the protesters, there are a number of protesters around this country that are doing it the right way. at this juncture where we are right now, i am looking at many, many sites around this country where the police are being purposely targeted. those are things we must address.

city leaders have a greater capacity to create real, andible changes in policing certainly creating policy that federal governments will ever have. we got to make sure that we are stepping in and part of the solution. certainly, we do not want to wait for tragedy to occur in our city to address these pressing issues. host: on your comment about looting, a front-page story in the wall street journal. looting deals as second blow. --wereusinesses will already reeling from shutdowns because of covid-19. let me ask you, a comment from one of our viewers on twitter says this. being a black mayor of a community in georgia is the trifecta of being in the wrong place at the right time. racism and white supremacy surround you and governments neglect and oppress you. it has been like this since the

country began. do you feel you are at the wrong place at the wrong time? guest: i do not. i feel like i'm at the right place at the right time. i have been able to navigate through this relationship aspect as it relates to working with county,ers, from estate, and even federal level. i have a great working relationship with our governor. certainly he has been extremely supportive of what we do here in union city, but what we do in the state. he and i don't agree on all policies, but certainly that's life. youave to find a balance, know, but certainly i don't have a problem with disagreeing. it's how we disagree. but certainly i have had a great working relationship with all of my federal delegates. it has been a promising

opportunity for my city and cities around me. certainly, one of the things i try to do is build on relationships. that's what it's all about. thear as the statement in aboundhat we have racism , that is a true statement. racism lives and breathes. however, i can't let that stop me from being the leader i know my god called me to be. certainly i understand what that individual is speaking to, but i feel like i am in the right place at the right time for such a time as this. host: here is ed calling us from bonita springs, florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. i don't think there is anyone watch the murder of mr. floyd and not come away shocked that this stuff could still happen. do we have racism here? yes we do. we have a two-tier justice

system? yes we do. all we have to do is look at the case of the two bills. one was a black man, one was a white man. both were accused of sexually abusing women. bill cosby was charged and is sitting in jail because of what he did to women. the other bill, he is now campaigning for his wife for president and he is living the high life. i think the hypocrisy of the democratic party is coming home to roost. president obama and vice president biden had years to deal with these issues and nothing has been done. i hope this is a wake-up call to america that both parties are complicit in this nightmare. we need to get it straightened out once and for all. thank you for taking my call. host: mayor williams, any thoughts? guest: certainly i respect the caller's viewpoint, but what is going on right now has nothing to do with bill cosby, has nothing to do with former

president bill clinton. certainly, there has been, for many, many years, two americas. we must address that. however, what is taking place right now, this is not about party. what is going on, it is not a respecter of democrats, republicans, independents, black, white, gender. none of those. this is about the need to sit down and have a true discussion for people to listen of the outcry of the individuals that have been disturbed and have been hurt for many, many years. for 40 acresying and a mule, not at all. this is about making sure that equity is in place for everyone a make sure that we all have fair opportunity as it relates

to business, but also as it relates to housing. those are things that are still existing in this nation. certainly, some of these conversations that we have with federal leaders, we've got to make sure that they understand -- and they take the blinders off to be able to start using their platforms to be able to do what they said they were going to washington to do. that is to help these communities be able to stand up on their own, but to be able to be fruitful and also make sure that the legacy that we leave is did leadbe one that we this position or this nation better than we found it. you're doing a disservice to many of our communities. host: former president obama yesterday had a virtual town hall and talked about police reforms happening at the local level. i wanted to play you some of his

comments and get your thoughts. needed of the reports prevent the types of injustices we have seen tape load -- take place at the local level. reform has to take place in more than 19,000 american municipalities. more than 18,000 local enforcement jurisdictions. as activists and citizens raise their voices, we need to be clear about where change is going to happen. and how we bring about that change. it is mayors and county executives that appoint most police chief and negotiate collective bargaining agreements. that determines place practices in local communities. district attorneys and state attorneys that decide whether or not to investigate and charge those involved in police misconduct. those are all elected positions. there are police,

community review boards. those often times may be elected as well. the bottom line is, i've been hearing a little bit of chatter in the internet about voting versus protest. politics and participation versus civil disobedience and direct action. or, thisot an either is a stance to bring abound -- about change we have to highlight a problem and make people in power uncomfortable, but we also have to translate that into practical solutions and laws that can be implemented and we can monitor and make sure we are following up on that. host: mayor vince williams, the former president putting the ball and the lap of you and other mayors and local leaders across the country. guest: exactly. certainly much of what i've heard over the past couple of days, but certainly from that

town hall, certainly resonates manyme and my knee, colleagues as local leaders. certainly, taking sure that you have the right person in place, that is a task that a lot of individuals -- that is why i say being a part of the national league of cities and the opportunities they have to train , but also navigate through some of the process, even the hiring process to make sure you are getting the right people in place. as it relates to your police chiefs, certainly those are the ones that report to the mayor's office. i am blessed to have a police chief that certainly understands this issue around community policing, but also understands the community. often there are many police chiefs and police officers that are brought in that don't have the proper decorum or the proper respect of culture of where they

are. we have got to make sure that training and policy is a big issue. policy is a big issue because many of our police departments have procedures that many of our local leaders haven't even viewed. ist: mayor williams, how big the force there in union city? guest: our police force is a little over 92 individuals. host: we've got a couple of more calls for you. go to st. louis to hear from sherry. good morning. caller: good morning. my, this, i lived through both the michael brown shooting and this other shooting. i think it's sad. i am also living through this covid thing, which is hard for people in -- people like me you were getting up in age to see a doctor. . think it's sad too i think it is sad the way this world is going.

i feel sorry for what is happening, but i know there is nothing i can do. i just wish our mayors, we have a mayor here and she is doing the best she can. i think it is sad that we can't come together, can't meet somehow on common ground to even get the issues that we are facing. host: mayor williams, how are you addressing protecting your vulnerable population? particularly the elderly there. guest: as it relates to covid? host: yeah. having testing mobile sites that are available, to justcharge, not only our senior population but that is one of the greatest opportunities we have. it also making sure that all of our seniors, we are checking on them daily, we are making sure they have food, water, but also making sure that they have

interaction with individuals. we have a lot of seniors that live alone, so we want to make sure we are here from them. even though my city buildings are not open to the public and we have a lot of staggered staff that are in buildings, i am in the office everyday. i am here. because i am essential, if you will. suree certainly making that all of our seniors know that their government is here for them. we are partnering with a number of individuals and organizations such as the atlanta braves has stepped in, and we have anonymous factors who have supported making sure that our seniors are fed. even our many young people who are out of school. host: one more call for you. irene in columbus, mississippi. good morning. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. with this covid, we have been under -- i am a registered democrat. i am 83 years old. hate seeing what this country is coming to. kentucky and then came to mississippi. i wasn't taught the difference thaten people and i do say blacks, and i have seen it here in my own state, where a lot of times blacks get more jail time than whites and that is wrong. but we have a president that has really done a lot for this country. i don't like his comments, i

don't like his tweets. ego bigger than i think, -- what he has, i blacks have the lowest unemployment in many, many years. host: irene i will let you go there. some final comments from mayor vince williams. guest: certainly, again, thank you for having me. i want this nation to know that you have many, many local leaders around this nation that are doing the right thing, that want to make sure their communities are safe, but also that they do embrace the first amendment of peaceful protest. certainly, my colleagues in mayor keisha. i have tweeted and certainly had dialogue with her.

she is doing great. i would urge many of the leaders out there, get involved with your state leak. association, i am excited about what we do. the collective work we do in this state to serve 538 cities. in my role with the national league of cities, that is one i am honored to be serving in. when we are working with every city and town and village in this country, because in the end, we will win. certainly, cities are essential and i want people to understand we are here to work together. that is the only way we will be able to win. that is from the white house to your house. thank you. host: thank you. mayor thence williams union city. up next, we will be joined by north dakota congressman kelly armstrong, who

will talk to us about the protests, but also the work of the house judiciary committee and what he is seeing in the senate judiciary committee, the republican review of the fbi pressure probe. more of that and just a moment. -- in just a moment. ♪ >> sunday night, peggy wallace talks about her father's controversial career and what inspired her to write her recent book, "the broken road." and 19 -- >> 1996 we took our youngest sun to the martin luther king museum historical site in atlanta. we went to his church and to his grave and we went over to the museum. it was being newly constructed at that time.

we were going to the exhibits and we came to the exhibit, alabama exhibit. bridge, the bombed out baptist church. firehouses and dogs in birmingham. standing. wallace and burns looked up at me and sad, why didso papa do those things to other people? and it broke my heart. said, popping never told me why he did those things to other people. but i know he was wrong, so maybe it will have to be up to you and me to help make things right. at 8:00es sunday night p.m. eastern on c-span's doing day -- q&a. ♪

>> c-span has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events. you can watch c-span public affair programming on television, online, or listen on our free radio app. the part of the national conversation through washington journal or through our social media feeds. c-span, created by america's cable television companies as a public service and brought to you today by your television provider. >> washington journal continues. us for north dakota is representative kelly armstrong. congressman from that state, representing, also a member of the judiciary committee in the house. we will talk about a couple of issues. first up, i want to ask you earlier a story we read

today about the judiciary committee taking up some legislation, certainly discussing legislation looking at police activity in the country and police reform across the nation. can you tell us about what might be proposed? guest: yeah, we're going to have a hearing june 10, next wednesday. i am glad we are doing it. i hope we can keep it towards moving forward on issues that matter. thepe to recognize that vast majority of police officers are great people who have a really tough job and anything we do is rooted in the fact of getting rid of bad cops, racist cops, and those types of things without demonizing the entire profession. career my entire legal dealing with law enforcement as a criminal defense attorney. i can tell you that one thing we can figure out pretty quick as, we have to incentivize departments to get rid of bad cops and we have to be able to

fire bad cops, but we cannot make it harder for good cops to do their job. -- shouldd this case the city of minneapolis and the state of minnesota move faster in terms of determining charges for the four officers now charged? think so, first of all i they moved pretty fast. i think we have to record highs that when you're dealing with charging law enforcement -- i mean, charging them is one thing. we forget that they have to get convictions too. these are hard cases, particularly with the free officers that were not directly involved. i've seen the video, there is absolutely no excuse. it is heinous, it is criminal, it was murder. we have to -- the hennepin county states attorney's office down there has been one of the department has got a murder conviction against a law enforcement officer in the last 10 years. sometimes i think with the political unrest going on we want a lot to work quicker than

it should, because it's really important not only that they got charged but that they can get a conviction out of this. those aren't always the same thing. --need to let the one of the problems here is, many people don't think the justice system works when law enforcement is involved. host: the hearing next week, well that hearing of the judiciary committee be a virtual hearing? guest: if it's possible, i will be there in washington. i think these are the kinds of reasons we need to be there. i literally got notice five-minute before i came on this morning. i heard about it on the news. we will find out. host: the senate judiciary committee is meeting in person in washington, holding an extensive hearing yesterday. the review of the fbi probe into russian interference in the 2016

16 election. they had the former deputy attorney general on yesterday. i don't know if you got a chance to see some of that. what are your thoughts on what happened yesterday? guest: this is really -- i have been involved in the fisa read off -- reauthorization and the flame case. arethings i picked up that really concerning is, one, mr. rosenstein said he didn't read the entire thing and assigned it anyway. two, that if he knew now what he knew then, he would never have signed the warrant. as three, that as early august 2017 they were aware that there was no real collusion case. those are concerning facts. i know media is topical and i know we are in -- we move from one story to another as immediately as possible, but this captivated everything for

almost three years. because of how information comes out of classified -- gets declassified and becomes presented, we are missing the ball when we are not addressing how this entire thing got started and how truly disturbing it is. host: what else do you think that rod rosenstein could have done to bring more transparency to the effort during the investigation? guest: here's the problem. we had director wray in front of us and everyone continues to talk about the front procedural safeguards and if you want to talk about the 26 warrants and the deficiencies on 26 americans that were not named president trump, you can do that as well. the bottom line is, this was a failure of people. this was people with incredible hubris doing things they absolutely had no reason to do. it was a failure of leadership at every step of the way. throughway up until,

who was allowed to be on the mueller team. we can put all procedural safeguards in place, but if we don't have more good people in these positions and people who respect to the position of authority they have, we are going to continue to have these problems. judiciarysit on the committee on the oversight and reform committee. are there any plans by either of those committees to take up this issue? guest: i don't think so. not under the current leadership. this is the problem with d.c.. specifically with fisa, it is almost too bad, because this affected a duly erected -- elected president needs to be addressed. i'm going to go back to the ig horowitz finding that out of 26 citizens who had warrants issued, all 26 of them had deficiencies. the average number of deficiencies was 20 per case. they could not find the file on four cases.

outside of getting through the legal hoops where you ever say that a secret court putting secret arts on american citizens can ever be constitutional -- that's a be disturbing to everybody. republicans,e for (202) 748-8001. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. and independents and others, (202) 748-8002. we hear first from winter haven, florida. caller: if the police chief of the patrolman that did the killing had been permitted to get rid of him by -- but he couldn't, his hands were tied by the police union. and also, esther floyd, you will see your brother again, as long as you believe in christ. and if the blacks would just quit killing each other, they have to remember they have

mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles. they are not just killing each other. they are killing their own families. when -- instead of having blacks and whites, why are we completely ignoring the real, true american, the indians? we have just done everything against them. host: barbara, thank you for your call. congressman armstrong? americans, i've represented a lot of them in court. we obviously have a great native american up population in north dakota. the differences between sentences and state and federal court. and also race obviously plays a role. want to go back to what she said about the police union. union chieflis yesterday said something that

should disturb a lot of people. i think for we start drafting significant federal, one-size-fits-all legislation for every single police department, i think we should recognize one fact -- good cops know who bad cops are. they are a technique community. -- tightknit community. we buried a hero last week who died trying to save another officer. a 29-year-old with a wife and kid. it was the saddest thing i have been a part of, not just in public service in my life. good cops know who bad cops are. we need to incentivize departments to get rid of bad cops. we need to make sure that they cannot hop from one department to another. hear from j. scott still, virginia. caller: thanks for taking my call. it is hard for a true independent to relate the conditions by which you protect

a democratic republic. isemocratic republic that based on maintaining a human environment, rather than replacing it with an animal environment where the animal pack leader receives the support of animal pack followers. believe that you would believe that our eyes did not see general flynn being honored at the russian propaganda tv dinner, sitting , vladimirkgb agent putin. deconstructty to this date by which we maintain a human environment. we did see what our eyes saw. host: we will hear from congressman armstrong. guest: i view the case to the

lens of my former job as a defense attorney. i have read every single piece of this. i couldn't disagree with you more about the flynn investigation. remember, an order to be convicted of flying to an officer need two things. to need a lie and you need be material to the case. the fbi person had recommended closing the flynn case prior to the interview ever taking place. this is me talking. this is a republican politicians talking. this is the fbi agent's. conveniently, that memo got misfiled. before we start talking about denigrating a general who has given his life in service of this country, we should look at this case file. the problem is, case file is not the case file as when the narrative was written. we continue to get more information. part of what i was actually really excited about in the fisa

reauthorization language is the requirement that this stuff got disclosed to the public quicker. from start to finish up the flynn case, it is truly an abuse. a former criminal defense attorney. why do you think, it looks like he has the facts on his side, why do you think general flynn pleaded guilty? guest: i could walk through the weekend. as late as friday, this was the second time his lawyers asked 's. the 302 they were told they could not have them. thaty, nbc ran a story said they have enough evidence, which was leaked by the doj, that they had enough evidence to convict -- rather, charge general flynn's sun. that afternoon he proffered. he was $6 million into a criminal defense.

sun and threatened his he proffered that same day. the trial you, penalty exist in federal court and when you are that strained financially. you are told you are going to get a deal with no or little jail time, often times you take that. to terry. republican life. caller: good morning. i wasn't going to say this at first, but i'm going to have to say that. about michael flynn sitting at that dinner in russia? if he looks around, he will see democrats sitting at that same table. this is what media is destroying our country and our civilization. what i called about was the hearing on rosenstein. illinois i changed every single channel. nobody was showing it.

then only two cables was showing -- one american news american news and fox news. host: we shared the whole thing. caller: this morning i watched illinois news. nobody is talking about. host: just to let you know, we covered the entire hearing at c-span. it's available on our website at c-span.org. we will cover the hearing today, beginning at 10:00 eastern. you're going to call for additional subpoenas. that is after the house pro forma. congressman armstrong, any thoughts? guest: i watched it yesterday, but there is an important point there. there was a narrative being pushed by many in the media and that narrative is unraveling. it is not unraveling because we are doing it. this is rod rosenstein testifying. andle should watch this

listen, we've got a nationwide pandemic. we obviously have as much civil unrest as we have had in many years. but this stuff is truly important and we don't get to move on just because it's been going on for so long. particularly when the information isn't necessarily real conducive to the prior media narrative that was being driven. host: a couple of comments on twitter. this one says, do away with fisa. the potential for abuse has been demonstrated. ponder the number of cases unpublicized that we don't know about. and a question for you. was rosenstein inept or was he cabal? the coup guest: there was obviously a failure in leadership and he has to take some blame for that. he tried to do that yesterday.

what halves motives -- his motives were at that time, i don't know. i particularly don't care. but i can tell you is, it was a massive failure of leadership. i want to go back to the fisa thing. it is important to recognize that fisa was originally put into place because prior to that it was essentially the wild west. toa was originally designed have protections for american citizens in counterintelligence, not justissues -- allowing article two to do whatever they want. i do agree it has been abused and there is systemic reform that needs to happen. sometimesd, i think we ratchet this up too much. because it was such a terrible case against a duly elected president. andody on the others that disagrees, should go read inspector general horwitz's

report. need significant reform. these are american citizens. we need to protect our foreign intelligence. we need to keep the country safe, that does not do a whole lot to do that if which apple all over the fourth amendment. passing the senate, delayed in the house, and now i conference committee? guest: one of the reasons i think most people aren't necessarily aware of, the problem with getting it reauthorized is the portions we are trying to reauthorize such as wiretaps and the lone wolf provision are not the pieces we want performed. the pieces we want performed and the pieces that have been abused are not up for reauthorization. without reform, they stay in place exactly the same way they were. i said this last week. there is a reason we need to be ndc. it's not just because of technical glitches on remote hearings. it is because deals like this,

where there are weird coalitions. it's not just the democrat-republican issue, we need to be able to be in town. --n the first one [inaudible] we need significant reforms. i don't know how we do that if we are not in ec. host: congressman kelly armstrong. we go next to silver spring, maryland. this is rachel. democrats line. caller: good morning. thank you, c-span. with all due respect, representative armstrong, how will history see when the 52 subpoenas go out and this hearing comes about, will it look like the mccarthy communism witchhunts? i think the republicans really need to wake up and see what is going on in our country.

ande is over 100,000 deaths look at the protests going on. it looks like you are all struggling. you are all trying to get president trump elected. public, we american are watching. thank you. host: we go to david in charleston, south carolina. david in south carolina, you are on the air. caller: thank you. mr. armstrong, i am one of your constituents. thishere on business, that may or may not have been covered already by previous questions. doj drop the case against general plan and this judge is trying to reinstate it, i'm wondering what options are available to resolve that? have calledw people

for his recusal. the appellate court struck him down hard and basically told him he had a very short period of time to respond to that. also, you are one of my constituents from williston. i've coached a lot of baseball there. i think this will end up working its way out. there is not a mechanism for a judge to independently create his own case. that's not how it works. i used to say, i could not understand why my friends wanted to be judges. i don't know why you would want to referee and you could play ball. i'm fully confident this will it where it needs to go. i think the appellate court did the right thing. host: question for you on twitter. withholding potentially exculpatory evidence is wrong in any prosecution and it happens all the time in both the federal and state courts. would your proposals cover all of those? guest: i think that's important.

a lot of things people have said, you have to remember where it was at in the course of the proceedings. there was no real discovery position in place. it is called brady material. discovery is a process in the federal court that can be burdensome, what i want to be clear, i'm not sure the fbi had the obligation to turn stuff over at that time. i think one of the things we need to do as we deal with what isall the second step act ensuring that all exculpatory evidence is provided to a defendant before a court enters a guilty plea. usually doesn't come on the front-end, a comes later in the case. i want to make that clear. systemically, i am not sure they were obligated to turn that over at the time they did. they should have been, and that is something we absolutely can legislate and get to the bottom upgrade -- to the bottom of. host: we will hear from robin

next. caller: i have been watching this for three years. general plan, if you did not plead guilty, they were going after his sun. they bankrupted him. i want comey charged. he needs to be charged. he is at the top of this and i has to go. all he asked -- all he cares about is the fbi's reputation. he does not care about what they were doing to president trump. i just want this all to come out. is not right. we have been going through this for three years. we want answers and we want them now. thank you, i appreciate you for coming onto c-span. is an i think that interesting -- there are a lot of people that feel that way. i'm not sure there are many more issues.

i am one of the guys that thinks we need to be able to hold people politically accountable both inccountable, congress and the media. [indiscernible] classified information. those are crimes we can charge. attorney general barr has appointed durham to do this. they still have to commit a crime that falls under federal statute. i think we are going to see with a lot of these guys, while there conduct is important -- they -- with whatbarred i have seen so far, i am struggling to find what crime we would charge them with. there was obviously an organization, obviously an effort to do something -- some things that were horrible, but i'm not sure i can point to a federal crime. we will have to see with the

durham investigation shows. host: we are just a few minutes away from the start of that hearing. we will have live coverage on c-span. they are looking into the invest -- fbi investigation into the 2016 russia investigation. they will be meeting to consider authorization for subpoenas, among other things. let's see if we can get a quick call. caller: thanks for taking my call and thanks for your time, congressman armstrong. regarding what you said incentivizing good cops to report bad cops, if we were to implement reform in the criminal justice system focused on reducing police brutality, how can we do that while funneling police expense back towards the community? host: going to have to let you go. congressman armstrong, a few

final thoughts here. guest: i agree with that. one of the first places we can start is continuing to build on what was the first step act, which is the most significant reform in a generation. atppens the state and local level. we have to figure out ways for the federal government, in order to incentivize law enforcement to make reforms. we cannot make it harder for good cops to do their jobs, we have to figure out a way to weed out the bad ones. host: i hope you join us when you are back in washington. stay safe and thank you for being on the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: in the u.s. house gaveling in momentarily. they are coming in pro forma, and after that we will take you live to the senate judiciary hearing. we will see you again tomorrow on c-span. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]