austin's peniel joseph talks about george floyd's death. washington journal is next. ♪ good morning and welcome to "washington journal." president trump's decision to order a show of force following peaceful protest and some looting has opened up fractures between the commander and chief and his troops. the defense secretary broken publicly with the white house and has threatened to use the insurrection act and retired military leaders are speaking out, warning against the use of the military against their fellow american citizens. what do you think the role of the military is during civil unrest in the united states? we are opening up special lines. we are going to start off with a

line for the national guard. the national guard is on the streets and we want to know what you think. national guard, your line is .202) 748-8000 active-duty military, army, navy, air force, marine. we want to know what you think the role of the military is during civil unrest. your numbers going to be (202) 748-8001. our veterans. if you have served in the armed forces, we want to know what you think. your numbers going to be (202) 748-8002. if you don't fit in any of those categories, the number for everyone else is going to be (202) 748-8003. keep in mind you can also text us at that number. and you can always reach us on social media, on twitter and on facebook. again, there has been a big

question going on in the military right now about what their role is during civil unrest in the united states. there is a story in the washington post this morning that talks directly about this. is coming upthat between the military and the commander-in-chief. here is a story from the post. the pentagon has told national guardsmen not to use firearms or ammunition's. it has issued orders to send home active-duty troops the trump administration amassed outside the city in recent days. a sign of de-escalation in the federal spots to protest. decision toade the disarm the guard without consulting the white house. ordered aident trump militarized show of force on the streets of washington to quell demonstrations punctured by an episode of looting sunday.

trump had encouraged the national guard to be armed. initially a group of guardsmen had been carrying guns while standing outside monuments, but the bulk of the forces, such as those working with federal park police in lafayette square did not carry firearms out of caution. all of the roughly 5000 guard ploy to washington have been told not to use weapons or ammunition. president trump, when he came praisedhe rose garden, the work of the secret service and national guard and invoked the name of george floyd. he was what president trump said. >> it is time for us to work together as we rebuild. renew and recover the promise of america. we are going to work together. it will all work out. some governors may need help, but they are in good shape. military, haveic

fantastic national guard. national guard was barely used. these people have done an unbelievable job. the secret service. secret service, by the way, are unbelievable. there was never any form of like, oh, this sounds dangerous. all i could see was what i was seeing on television. they were outside. the secret service was incredible. we were also helped by the d.c. police and the national guard. it was unbelievable. this was like a piece of cake. if youggesting, because look at minnesota and the great success we had there, i am suggesting to some of these governors that are too proud -- in new york, you see what is going on. don't be proud, get the job done. you will end up looking much better in the end. call in the national guard, call me. you have to dominate the

streets. you can't let what is happening happen. it is called dominate the streets. you can't let that happen in new york, where they are breaking into stores. and hurting many small businesses. equal justice under the law must mean that every american receives equal treatment in every encounter with law enforcement, regardless of race, caller, gender, or creed. they have to receive fair treatment from our enforcement. they have to receive it. we saw what happened last week. we can't let that happen. hopefully george is looking down and saying, this is a great thing happening for our country. this is a great day for him, this is a great day for everybody. day, ingreat, great terms of the quality -- of equality. it is what our constitution

requires and what our country is all about. host: let's go to our phone lines and see what you think. we will start with bill, a veteran from cleveland, ohio. caller: how is it going? host: just fine. caller: correct me if i'm wrong. i thought a week ago the president asked the d.c. mayor for protection of the white house. she declined, so then he asked for the guard and active-duty military, which i believe she disapproved of that. it is sort of like a bad marriage, you know? all right. let's go to another bill who was calling from massachusetts. good morning. caller: hi. how are you doing? host: just fine. caller: what is happening here, this is a communist takeover of america, what is happening on the streets.

there is other different people in this country, it is not just black lives matter. people happening is, coming from terrorist groups to try to overthrow this country. there is other people that count in this country, including the veterans, where they want to take out all the memorials for people who fought in the south, who died fighting bravely for their side, even though it wasn't right, that doesn't mean they don't need to be thought of as heroes too. just because what they fight for, the black people don't agree with. it is happening is this overthrow of terrorist group. to loretta go calling from atlanta, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to say thank god for the military during the civil unrest. thank god for our strong president and god bless america. thank you.

ist: let's go to thomas who a veteran calling from huntsville, alabama. good morning. thomas, good morning. caller: there is a way to do the reserves of the military. .t is all spelled out joint chiefs of staff. what they can do, what they can't do. in times like we are going through. a a: let's go to gordon i'm veteran calling from kansas city, kansas. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i am a veteran of the vietnam era. i did not have to go to war, but i am so proud of my president and my heart leads for mr. and i just don't

understand defund the police, that will cause vigilante justice and we can't have that. branch ofon, which the military are you a veteran of? caller: i was drafted into the army. i did not join. wass forced to go, but it one of the probably, one of the most important experiences of my life. i learned a lot in the army and it was a good experience, whether i wanted to go or not. host: let's go to christine who was calling from kingston, illinois. good morning. caller: hi. all i know is, a lot of my lack friends in the chicago area really want more police around and they would love the national guard to come in. they have children that are scared and i think that is terrible. there is 12 people that got killed in chicago this weekend. black lives matter hates

america, or else they would care about every life that gets killed. thank you. host: defense secretary mark esper, at a pentagon briefing on wednesday, talked about the use of military units in american cities. here is what the secretary had to say. at times, the united states military is asked to help maintain law and order so that other americans can exercise their rights free from violence against themselves or their property. that is what thousands of guardsmen are doing today in cities across america. it is not something we seek to do, it is our duty. and we do it with the utmost skill and professionalism. i was reminded of that monday as i visited our national guardsmen who are on duty monday night protecting our most hallowed grounds and monuments. i am proud of the men and women

of the national guard, who are out on the streets performing this task, in many ways at the risk of their own welfare. i continue to believe that the national guard is best suited for performing mastic support in the situation -- domestic support in these situations. in support of local law enforcement. secretary not as the of defense, but as a former soldier and former member of the national guard. the option to use forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only can the most dire of situations. we are not in one of those situations now. i do not support invoking the insurrection act. host: let's see what some of our social media followers think about the question of the use of military in the united states. he was a post from facebook that says, military troops have been

used to squash riots. several presidents used to them. it is the only thing that riot understand. ers -- also needed to secure private businesses who are suffering from the riots and looting. says, itext that husband is an air force veteran. the military should have no role in the protest. trump uses the military as props. he gave cops the green light when he told them, don't be too gentle. it is disgusting what we are seeing and even more disgusting who we have as leader of the free world. another post that says, attacked businesses, buildings and shut up. do the task you have been assigned. no one cares what your personal opinions are.

one last text that says, they had better support the people in the streets and disobey lawful orders. get on the right set of history just once. we are going to go back to the phone line because we want to know what you think. we are going to go to a veteran calling from rocklin, new york. -- brooklyn, new york. caller: as a former law enforcement, i trained since i was 18 years old and the military police. you don't use the armed forces for law enforcement. that is under the's, titus act. comitatus act. this is the traditional thing in the united states. the so-called criminals that take over a

protest, in order to do their nefarious things, those have to be dealt with. when you have a peaceful protest, that is a constitutional right that has to be protected. were formerid you law enforcement as well as former military? caller: yes. host: does having the national guard on the street make the police officer up a -- police officer's job easier or harder? caller: it all depends on the governor when he is giving the order. the national guard is there to support. they are there to support the police. if they are overwhelmed. nothis case, they are overwhelmed. the police departments have the capacity to contain what is going on. they have the capacity. it is all up to planning. the police managers, if got to know what they are doing. if they don't train the officers

to do right control -- we used to train the new jersey state police and right control. a lot of these officers, they don't know anything about right control. you can see it in the formations in the stream. host: did you get right control training in the military? caller: at fort dix were used to train the new jersey state police in right control techniques. the military are experts and do that. host: let's go to michelle, who is a veteran. good morning. [inaudible] host: we are having a hard time hearing you. caller: can you hear me? host: now we can hear you. i think we lost michelle. let's go to charles, a veteran calling from tyler, texas. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you?

i've been thinking about the situation. we can'tnderstand why form a police department that has equal number of like people as officers and when they go out to an area to control a certain part of area or even if they go to a home on a domestic call, why they can't have one white person and one black person or whichever way the person is that is in the home so that they do not get accused of all the stuff they are accused of. i know they have to rough them up sometimes or have to handle conflict if they so i coming, have six or eight officers so one could grab an arm, another can grab an arm, and another can grab a leg instead of having to choke them down. i don't approve of that. punished with are people who are mad when they get

there and they are not going to cooperate. if you send one officer out there, two officers out there, they are going to have to manhandle them. the only way they know how to do is get them on theirs, and in a knee on them or something. i was in law enforcement two years before i changed and went to a sales job. i never understood, i never had an officer tell me he went out to hurt someone or anything. none of them. they never leave their home thinking they are going to have to kill someone this morning. that is not their agenda. their agenda is to go out and protect the public. it doesn't matter if they are white, black, or yellow. they just go out there to defuse the situation, try to get it under control. if somebody gets out of hand they have to take them, you know, they have to arrest them. when they are fighting a guy

that is much bigger than they are and trying to get him on the ground or in handcuffs so he can hit them or grab a knife out of his pocket, they have to manhandle in any way they can. if they go down with him, they don't know where their knee or hand as most of the time when they are fighting those people. control,olved in drug you know. in fact, i was undercover for a while. when we went into a house, we never knew what they had and how many guns they had and everything else. they were selling drugs to our kids outside, he know? some of them are going out and selling drugs. we go in there and there is five males and there were seven of us, we had to ask them to land the floor and never once tell them you're going to hit them with the club, just tell them to get down. if you -- if they don't get down, you have to take them

down. maybe you had to have six people to take them down. some of these people weigh 400 pounds. charles, did you ever have to take anyone's life during your time as a law enforcement officer? caller: no i didn't and i never saw anybody do it. i never saw anybody that wanted to do it. i never talk to an officer that wanted to take anybody's life. host: do you think using the military will help police or heard police on the streets? caller: i was in the first armored division -- no, i helped with a sheriff's department with the undercover part of it. but i was in the army and i was not in a combat zone. i can hear you. to mary who was calling from fort washington, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning.

thanks for taking my call. listening to the man from texas, that lets me know we definitely do need new policing laws. the military? no. my father is a veteran, all of the men and my family are veterans and they say, absolutely, no. it is horrible. you put the military out there. the military is for military reasons. the national guard, yes, they did wonders in the 60's for removing people like george wallace and letting young black kids go to school. and people going to college. that is what they were used for. what's going not -- going on now is a necessity. it has gone on way too long. host: we ask you this question. doesn't matter who the law enforcement is? state, or is local, federal troops as long as the law as being enforced? caller: no, it needs to be

local. number 45 wants that to put on a show. it's not helping, it's hurting. look what has happened. he has been in office for three and a half years and he has done nothing but stoke racism. for all of you callers sank the president is wonderful, yes, he has killed the administration. he has killed the republican party and you are all going down. thank you. let's go to kevin from windsor, connecticut. caller: good morning. we don't need no military. but we need is a real president who was not hiding in a bunker. know, he is stoking the fires saying no kneeling. we all forgot about what happened at kent state.

the military? no, no. you don't sick the military on american citizens. we need a new president. we are in the middle of a pandemic. racial divide here. we have a president who is taking a playbook at of putin's games, using the military, you know? we need democrats or independents. no more republicans. host: kevin, do you think that the local police departments are doing their job in monitoring thatnforcing the curfews have been put on by the mayors? do you have faith in your police department to be able to handle any type of unrest in your area? caller: you know, everybody has their skirmish. how can i say this? you got your back cops, you got your good cops.

back bad cops get caught on film, they have to pay the price. here you are, pushing down a 75-year-old man, a senior citizen, and they walk right by him. and president trump doesn't even say anything. he says no more kneeling. did you catch that? he watches fox news in the bunker and all of this crab. he is on his sun tanning bed. in order a law president. he is a bunker president. he is a draft dodger. we don't need this guy. host: let's go to joe who is calling from ash, north carolina. joe is a member of the national guard. good morning. caller: i used to be a member and i am a veteran. control -- right riot control during the early 70's and late 70's. host: where? caller: no, the police are not

able to handle this because they do not know what a phalanx line is. when i was trained we carried three foot riot sticks. and when we moved, we moved all at one time. we didn't break the line, we pushed. if one of the people up front got hurt, the secondary line took it over. and the third line that was way in the back, they were the ones morehad, let's say, the forceful weapons to move you. i agree that the police do not have the training, just like that gentleman they pushed back and he fell. one officer was probably the head of the line and went ahead stop the one gentleman from going down and helping him, because you have to keep the line moving.

the one gentleman that said, once you are told three times to move, disperse, then you have to move. we went through a virus and all of these people, a lot of people , they lost their jobs. they went ahead and lost some of their businesses. they got their businesses back up, and then these people burnt, looted, did all of the nasty things. your insurance isn't going to unrest.ts of god, civil these people are going to be screwed. these idiots that are saying, olice go away? if i was in a line being pushed like that and my bosses said, take any, got to do this, you got to do that, i say, i would

quit and leave. you need the military because it is a different set up. they are favorable trained and if you let them do their job, everybody moves. that's all i've got to say. host: joe, you say you had been part of the national guard in the past sent out to quell riots . where was this? caller: get out of the army in the 1970's, went into the national guard after that. that was during the trucker strike and all of that other nonsense. the man brought up can state? i am from ohio. i know about kent state. those people were not trained perfectly. if you look at some of the pictures of it, you will see them sitting there with a weapon heira lot of them had t bayonet hooked up, but they had the scabbard on it. situations, with

your experience with the national guard, do you think the situation is that the point where the national guard should be called out in most american cities where these protests are happening? is ar: yes, well, that call at the time of -- if they riot, yes. if they don't, they have a certain time to get on the street, a certain time to get off the street because you are disrupting the flow of traffic. and another thing -- what are you thinking about when they go 's and they hurt the emt the people at the fire department? -- was an emt. you have a situation where it can have bodily harm to the emt or fireman, they are not allowed to come in until the area is

cleaned and secured. nobody talks about that either. host: let's go to joe who is calling from massachusetts. joe, good morning. caller: good morning comrade citizen. war a rent of the american of aggression against the people of vietnam. i was serving in virginia and can state happened. i had my car loaded, i was ready to dessert. my fellow troops talked me out of it. to my shame, i stayed in for the remainder. i think any truth that wants to spurs tellsn bone them, should. host: let's go to michael, a veteran calling from owings mills, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i am going to make this real quick. i did nine years in the navy.

as long as the military and people are doing peaceful protest and, you don't have to call in the national guard or the military. the point i want to make, when i was in baltimore the other day watching a peaceful protest, a car pulled up with people in it and they had a box of bricks and they were passing these bricks out to peaceful protesters, trying to get them riled up and to have them around. a lady walked up and said, what are you doing? don't you know these bricks will get these young boys killed? and then the car pulled off. i half-hour later, another guy to passing out $20 bills peaceful protesters and he was trying to get them to pick up picnic tables and throw them through windows, and some peaceful protesters ran him off.

i don't know what is going on. we have to find out who these people are because they are trying to incite riots. host: we have heard several callers reference the issue going on in buffalo. with the officers and the man who was pushed down. i am going to read to you from cnn's story about what is going on in buffalo, new york. 57 police officers in buffalo, new york have resigned from the emergency response team following the suspension of two officers that allegedly pushed a 75-year-old protester to the ground. underway ination is an incident, governor andrew cuomo called unjustified and utterly disgraceful. the man was seriously injured. video of the demonstration showed officers walking toward the man and two pushing him. his head bleeds onto the

sidewalk as officers walked past him, some looking down. the demonstrators were calling for racial justice after the killing of george floyd in minneapolis police custody. the 57 officers resigned from the emergency unit but not from the force. cnn was told the 57 members who resign from the unit make up the entire active emergency response team. a few members of the unit are out and not included in the 57 resigned. resigned because of the treatment of two of their members who are simply executing told a station. another station also reported news of the resignation. was confirmedtity by andrew cuomo's office. he is hospitalized in serious

but stable condition. linesgo back to the phone and talk to larry, a veteran calling from arizona. good morning. caller: good morning. enlisted, my battle buddy was a black kid from milwaukee. both thinking about going to ocs together. during machine gun training, he had a hernia and ended up getting a medical. there were riots going on from vietnam. later, i was stationed in virginia. i was on call, several units were on call, we went to riot control training every day. the talked about

various formations you would be in. mp's was a platoon of guarding the pentagon and they got surrounded and beat up. call, buses were handy if anything got out of hand, there would be a couple companies of us from where we were and we would go in with bayonets.shielded i am tired of seeing this getting so out of hand. happened anding they pulled the truck driver out and killed him, and then they burned all of koreatown. that sticks in my head really bad, because we have a lot of friends there. for years and years, they were messed up. virus, and wee

have this going on. looting, people have put their lifeblood into businesses. iam a small business guy, live in southern arizona below the checkpoints. nobody really knows, but every major road that comes off of what i call the dmz, which is the border, there is a checkpoint. when we had all of the problems with 1.2 million immigrants coming across and costing us $240 billion, they would have to take the officers away from the checkpoints and they were wide open. druggies, it was an expressway. host: let's go to missouri, a veteran.

good morning. caller: good morning. hello, thank you for taking my call. i just want to say that i did my time, i spent four years in the army, and i learned quite a bit about rules of engagement. theuld like to talk about , there is also laws about -- in the military, you to be following orders, but only if they are lawful. i would hope that police officers would be able to follow the same motto. i am a black man, i do a lot for my community, i am on the school

board, i work in the government, i advocate for people that are mistreated in health care. hope that police officers would be able to do the right thing. is, i feelith me safe in my community because my community knows me because of what i do for kids, what i do in health care, or they know me personally because i do things with the police. if i drive north, south, east or west a certain amount of distance, i might not be safe. if i get pulled over by police officers, just because i am a black man. i am a veteran, i served my country and i continue to serve my community, but the color of my skin might put me in danger.

folks need to take that into account when they talk about police officers and if it is peaceful protesters, they are , and itsame as looters should be treated properly. host: let's go to veronica, who is calling from jefferson township, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i am interested in constitutional matters, because a lot of the discussion that has been going on has to do with whether the military should be unitedin to threaten states citizens, which i believe is what prompted, finally, general mattis to write the op-ed that he did. several other four-star senior military officials, both active

and retired, please see if you can discuss or get a discussion going on what exactly is in the constitution -- a founding document of our country -- make absolutely certain that those two things would be kept separate. i can tell you this from secondhand experience, i am the daughter of german immigrants. my mother came here as a child, a 14-year-old, straight into the teeth of the depression. she learned how to put food on the table. my father came here later. they lied to us about when they came here, they said 1932, which would be the year before hitler became chancellor. found on ancestry and they came here on 1937. my father's entire young

adulthood was shaped by hitler, and boy, was there a difference. he believed the police could act like stormtroopers, what is wrong with that? my mother argued with him, that is what got germany into trouble. brought up ther statement that was put out by retired general james mattis, the former defense secretary for president trump, and i want you to see part of what he had to say. this is a statement from james mattis. we must reject any thinking of our cities as a battle space, that our uniformed military is called upon to dominate. we should use military only when requested to do so on rare occasions by state governors. as werizing our response, witnessed in washington, d.c., sets up a false conflict between the military and civilian society. thatodes the moral ground

leads to a trusted bond before the men in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. this was from an interview that retired general james mattis, the former defense secretary, one to the atlantic magazine june 3. let's go back to our phone lines and take a couple more phone calls. who is start with lisa, calling from shreveport, louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. what i want everyone to know, whites, blacks, good citizens of our country, i want to let them know, get off the streets at night. there is an attempted coup that is happening within the united states. as far is the marines, they will be coming in. there will be terrible, terrible chaos. theyr as general kelly,

are sleepers, they are traitors. they will be going on anderson agent, the is a cia part of the media is part of this, this will be coming, so remember that i said this. host: let's go to kim, who is calling from north carolina, who is also a veteran. good morning. caller: howdy! host: go ahead. caller: i served in the air force for 25 years. half the time, i was deployed with the army. honduras, persian gulf, i was also in the pentagon on 9/11. when i was in security forces in the military, we were trained constantly in riot control. i totally agree with the national guard being called out.

i am upset with the mayor of new york city for his lack of it istanding how peril right now. he needs to get from behind his desk and get in the front row with the police officers. host: did you ever have to use that riot training you received in the military? caller: yes, sir. host: where and when? caller: arizona, 1983. host: what happened? caller: we called it stop and drag. host: tell us what that is. caller: tell you what it is? host: yes. caller: we would have the frontline, a second line, and a third back line. we would just keep pushing people forward, forward, forward. when there was a curfew called, if they did not obey the curfew, we would arrest them. long were you in

arizona? how long were you out there? caller: i was in arizona three years, but i served my country for 25 years. i was in the pentagon on 9/11. i am also a graduate of the fbi academy. i definitely support law enforcement in every single way possible. host: let me make sure i understand, you are an air force veteran, and you graduated from the fbi academy? does that mean you were a member of the fbi, as well? caller: no. i went through a special school different we had 25 law enforcement agents from different parts of the world that were attending at the same time. host: ok. he said you had a chance to use your riot training in arizona,

where there any other times in your career when you had use at training, and how did it turn out? caller: no, i did not have to use it in riots. what is going on right now, now that the national guard has been deployed to different cities, they are going to take their commands from local law enforcement people. everyone understands what the chain of command is, which is very important, by the way. host: let me make sure i understand what you just said. are you telling us the national guardsmen are taking their orders from the local police? caller: i believe so. i do not know that for a fact. being in law enforcement myself, when someone else comes in, they don't take over, they are listening to the locals because the local police department understands their community. so, the national guard is being a backup to the local police.

joe, who istalk to calling from california. joe, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. , how come we are not hearing his name? where are the protesters? why are we not speaking about this honorable black man? a retired st. louis captain, who was murdered protecting a small business, murdered. where are the protesters? where is the movement around this? do all black lives matter? at this point, i am a little confused. why is he not getting his name out there? why is this not a problem? man, perfectblack record, yet his name is not

being mentioned. yet, you have an individual, god bless his soul, with a rap sheet, who is being put at a retiredevel than this police captain. a 77-year-old man who happened to be there, protecting a store. let's go to bob, who is calling from illinois. bob is a veteran. good morning. caller: good morning. i have one question. 1958, i the navy in came home on leave. putn cops came up to us and my head through a window, beat the living hell out of me, arrested me, and when i went back to the navy, i was found not guilty, but i was still -- inuted in the incident

the military because of that incident. that traveled with me for six years in the military. i want to thank the military for brainwashing me for hitting the service and the chicago cops for idiots. host: a caller asked about david dorn and i want to reach her the story that was written by the st. louis newspapers about david dorn. a surveillance video showing been breaking into a pawnshop was released by police in an effort to catch the person who fatally shot a retired police captain, hired to protect the shop from looters. the video showed seven men who burst into the shop on martin luther king drive. all of the looters had their faces covered. at least two of the men had

guns, the video showed one man pointing a gun toward the door. the video does not show the killing of david dorn, 77. he was found dead on the sidewalk in front of the shop. police have made no arrests and release the video seeking the public's help. a reward for information leading to an arrest has climbed to $46,000. that is the story being publicized out of st. louis about the death of retired police captain david dorn. let's take a couple of more calls. bobby is a veteran from columbus, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you doing today? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i served 22 years in the army. i was stationed in upstate new york. , but it wastraining

to protect the installation i was on, because there were special weapons there. the thing about it, we never relativeto do anything to the law enforcement, or anything like that. did when people came across we get involved. we were second in line, not even first. a civilian police force. is a wayeel there active duty military should be brought in to do law enforcement. that is what national guard are trained for. they train for that, that is something they practice, that is who they should -- that is who should do it. the national guard follows the governor of the state. not the mayor, not the police

chief, they follow the governor. the general in charge of that national guard unit of the national guard, he takes orders from the governor. if they are nationalized by the president, they take orders from the president. host: yesterday, during a town hall held by the congressional black caucus, a representative spoke about her time in minnesota this week and the protests going on there and around the country. here's what she had to say. [video clip] >> i so deeply wish the trip i had to take yesterday i did not have to take. i wish this man was still alive. he should still be alive. and in a more just america, george floyd would be alive. they would all be alive. i spent time with organizers who have dedicated their lives to the pursuit of racial justice, and as i am lifting up

organizers, i want to underscore a point i have been making recently, clarifying for some, just the fact of the matter for everyone participating in this town hall, our organizers, our activist represent a long line of organizing and activism and table shaking and peaceful protesting demonstration. all while holding space for our righteous rage and demanding radical change. our organizers, they are community builders, not destroyers. those folks are infiltrators who seek to undermine our movement, to co-opt the narrative, we will not allow it to happen. host: let's look at some more of our social media followers and what they think about the role of the military during civil unrest. here is one text that says president johnson put 11,500

federal troops in d.c. to stop the 68 -- 1968 rights. active-duty military is not supposed to be used for civilian law. why would they call in the 82nd airborne? potus has nosays other option's. he requested d.c. cops to guard the white house, the mayor said no. potus then requested active-duty. another text says the prosecutor's job is to find out the truth. police are supposed to support the citizens before using force. timeast text says it is for the protests to end. everyone gets that there is a problem. it will not get solved by protesting. time to move past protesting and making changes in our system and laws so this will never happen again. let's take a final round of

calls before the top of the r. we will start with arthur, who is calling from baltimore, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. host: go ahead, arthur. caller: to whom am i speaking? host: this is see's bank, go ahead, arthur. c-span, go ahead, arthur. caller: [indiscernible] original bruce lee and the original john f. kennedy. , who ist's go to ed calling from west virginia. caller: the first president of the united states led this country's service into a thing called the whiskey rebellion in pennsylvania. they did not want to pay taxes

in pennsylvania. george washington went over there with the military and straighten them out and said, that is how you stop this kind of stuff. james, who is to calling from west virginia. james is a veteran. good morning. caller: good morning. was talkingn who l.a.,the riots in 1992 in we did not mention that george h. w. bush was the one who enacted it at that time, bush, sr. act was brought in in the 1800s by congress and was used on several occasions. if you don't think that burning,

looting and killing people does not qualify for this, i think you are living under a rock. host: do you think the local police departments in places like west virginia, virginia, north carolina, south carolina, do you think the local police departments cannot handle this on their own? caller: that is not what i am saying. looting have burning, and killing going on, claiming rioting,ceful you are living under a rock. the military should follow the president and leader. this should not comment about him not being in the military. i don't recall anyone saying anything about obama when he was not in the military. different strokes for different folks.

it is sad to see what this country is going right now. let's go to tony, a veteran calling from santa fe, new mexico. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i am appalled at what is going on. i don't think trump is the only danger to our constitution. i can take you back to martin luther king, and forward. for almost 12ive presidents. i can only name one who had any integrity, and still remains to have, and has accomplished more since he was president, and that is carter. i can name things that even obama did that is against it. how about citizens united? andmost violent act

re-enslavement, corporate enslavement, of every single american. we need to protest every single day. the revolution is now. what bernie sanders was talking about. people are looking for a leader -- where are you, bernie? we need you now. party, i ampublican more of a john adams independent. there is nothing we regret more than the two-party system, two parties acting in opposition with each other. i am more like molly irving. i prefer someone that burns the himself in the constitution than someone who burns the constitution and wraps himself in the flag. host: new jersey, vincent, good

morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i never was in the military, but i really appreciate what they have done for america since day one. with the protests, i am all for it. once things got out of hand and i see all of the personal and businesses getting looted, you cannot sit at home and say this is right. something should have happened. it should not have taken five or six days for this to stop. the people who got killed trying to defend their businesses, it takes people a lifetime to start a business. to see it get wasted away after sitting home for three months because the governor told you to stay home, it is so unfair. if it takes the military to come in for law & order, so be it. host: we would like to thank all

of our callers, all of our veterans and active duty military members. thank you for your service. coming up next, a discussion on the latest job numbers released yesterday and what it means for the future of the job market. wall street journal's eric morath will join us. of thepeniel joseph university of texas -- austin will discuss the protests following the death of george floyd. we will be right back. ♪ >> next week, the house and senate will hold hearings on the federal response to the coronavirus and law enforcement accountable to. tuesday at 2:30 p.m. on c-span. testifies on the role in unemployment insurance during the coronavirus pandemic.

c-span, theive on house judiciary committee hearing on policing practices and law enforcement accountable to. also at 10:00 on c-span3, steve mnuchin testifies before the senate small business committee on the implementation of title i of the cares act. watch next week, tuesday and c-span3,, on c-span on online at c-span.org, or listen on the c-span radio app. lived through a loss of confidence in our institutions, a wave of cynicism leaving us unable to trust whatever we are told by anyone who calls himself an expert, it becomes difficult to rise to a challenge like this. first reaction is no, they are forg, they are only in it themselves. a lot of our national institutions have to take on the challenge of persuading people that they exist for us, they are

here for the country. >> sunday at noon, a live conversation with an author and scholar. his most recent book is a time to build. other titles include the great debate in the fractured republic. join the conversation with your phone calls and facebook messages. tv, onn-depth on book c-span2. washington journal continues. host: we are back and we are joined by eric morath, who covers the economy from the wall street journal's washington bureau. we will talk about those unexpected job numbers from yesterday. good morning. guest: good morning. host: yesterday, we learned there were 2.5 million jobs added to the economy in may. those numbers were unexpected by most people. dropped toyment rate

13.3%. explained to us what is going on here. guest: they certainly were surprising numbers. economists said it was the most surprising report of his lifetime. jobs toected 8 million be lost. gaining 2.5 million is a dramatic swing. fears about the economic shock and the labor market shark induced by the pandemic were not realized. a lower number of jobs had been lost i think americans are getting back to work, perhaps in larger numbers than we expected. i also want to say it says where we are, which is still the second highest unemployment rate recorded since world war ii, and 20 million americans are unemployed.

still atrong month, but very unstable labor market overall. gains in anyee job particular sector? was there an area responsible for these gains, or was this an overall rise across all sectors? gain came inf that basically the food services category. that was the hardest hit the last two months, restaurants were closed down largely because officials ordered them to do so. they have not hired back everyone that left, but they are hiring back some. i think partially these numbers show us restaurants are hiring people back, even before states said they could reopen. i have spoken to restaurant owners and storeowners who said we need people to come back for takeout service, or to get the

restaurant cleaned and ready to go. inalso saw strong hirings places like construction and manufacturing. these areas have jobsites that are allowed to restart. we saw from some of the numbers we received from the bureau of labor statistics that a lot of the gains seem to come in the leisure and hospitality industry. that was the industry that was the hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic -- airplanes, hotels, resorts, vacation places. do you expect to see continued rise in some of those industries that were hit badly by the coronavirus pandemic as the summer goes on? guest: i think you will see some increase. when you look under the hood on those numbers, that is a huge category -- almost 10% of u.s. workers are in that category.

when you look at the specifics, it gets a little more muddled. restaurants fall and that category, that was pretty strong. there was not nearly the same sort of bounced back -- hotels, not nearly the same. remainsemployment somewhat depressed and some of thesetourist areas, but your corner restaurant might be reopening. airlines are a wildcard because some of the aid they received from the government, they are mandated to keep workers on their payroll through the fall. that is to be determined. if in the fall, everyone is back flying, we are ready for holiday travel, the hope would be jobs are maintained. if people are recalibrating their plans, travel is down, people are staying home for christmas and other holidays, i think the airlines will react by

laying people off later this year. host: like you said earlier, the unemployment still remains down by 20 million jobs. i am going to read a graphic from the wall street journal story from yesterday -- employment remains down by nearly 20 million jobs in 13% since february. virus shutefore the down parts of the economy. jobs.s. shed 9 million during a period that covered the recession caused by the financial crisis. peopleumbers surprise and it is a bump up, but the economy is still down 20 million jobs. what is the average american take away from that report yesterday? guest: think of it this way, for all of the jobs lost in march and april, one in 10 came back

in may. for those one in 10 people, that is great news. for the other nine, there is a lot of uncertainty. we don't know exactly what will happen. if we continue to see 2 million or 3 million jobs added per month over the next five to 10 months, we will be back to where we were, which was a very strong economy at the start of the year. economists have warned that might not be likely. -- there surprised prediction was for fairly strong hiring over the summer and then for there to be a bit of a plateau as we come to reckon willthe idea that the u.s. have 10 million workers permanently displaced from their jobs. that is the big question. if these are temporary layoffs and there is a lot of government aid to support people who are laid off, things will look

strong. -- 9 find out that 9000, million, 10 million, similar the numbers lost during the 2007 to 2009 recession, that will lower confidence. host: let's let our viewers take part in this conversation. we are going to open up special lines for this talk about unemployment numbers. if you are currently unemployed and looking for a job, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you are unemployed and have stopped looking for a job, we want to know what you think, as well. your number will be (202) 748-8001. if you still are employed. if you held onto your job through the pandemic, we want to know what is happening with you. your number is going to be (202) 748-8002. if you do not fit into any of

those categories but you want to talk with us anyway -- maybe you are retired -- your number will be (202) 748-8003. s text us aty that same number -- (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media. eric, we are seeing a lot of states do different things when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic. , sometates are open fully states are putting their toes in the water slowly. how is that going to affect the national numbers when all of the states are doing different things when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic? guest: to the degree that some restrictions remain in place for several more months, that will

hold back a number of people that can be rehired. i talked to a restaurant owner in chicago and she said, maybe half the people she let go in march she could bring back by the fourth of july. she said one of her restaurants really can't reopen. it is a small pub and she has to be at half capacity, it is not worth reopening. you will see those types of things play out. manufacturing,ke it might not be possible to have the same number of workers in the same amount of production, even if they are allowed to reopen. host: are there certain areas where the unemployment rates have hit harder than others? i am thinking about those areas that depend on tourism and entertainment, like new york, orlando, florida, las vegas,

nevada, or are the unemployment woes hitting cities equally? guest: it is not equal at all. las vegas has the highest unemployment rate in the country, and it is obvious why. it is tourism dependent. peoplerally depends on gathering in close quarters, spending time together. that is an area that has been hard-hit. places that are highly dependent highestsm had the unemployment rates -- i am talking 30%. atlantic city, new jersey was very high. hawaii was very high. other places we saw high unemployment work the factory in,s, the area i grew up detroit, michigan had high unemployment.

cleveland, small towns in the midwest, those are largely tied to manufacturing in that area that was shut down. those areas, we could see a quicker rebound because many of the automakers and others have announced they are getting back to full capacity in recent weeks. host: one last question before i let the viewers take over the conversation -- the jobs that were lost because of the coronavirus pandemic, will they come back as full-time jobs, part-time jobs? a lot of people are now working from home, and a lot of people were furloughed. are those included in the numbers we saw? the people who lost her job temporarily but expect to come back? guest: the math is challenging. the unemployment rate considers those on temporary layoff. the labor department issues a

caveat, an unusually high number accounting themselves as employed but not at work. that might increase the unemployment rate by three percentage points. some of those people who say they are employed but not at work are not being paid. if you are not being paid, you are not employed. i think a lot of people will be rehired, but we are increasingly i spoke tople -- someone who was let go from hotel chain. it started as a temporary layoff, and then they called back and said this was a permanent separation. i think that story might play out in some of these hard-hit industries. host: we have a statement that says exactly what you are saying. the number of unemployed persons on temporary layoff decreased by 2.7 million in may to 15.3 million after a sharp increase

of 16.2 million in april. the number of permanent job losses continue to rise, toreasing by 295,000 in may 2.3 million. guest: the key thing to remember here is there are two different surveys for the jobs report. the numbers you are referring to and the numbers that make up the unemployment rate, the census bureau can usually do visits, they cannot do that now with the virus. they are asking, did you have a job last week, did you work? there is a separate survey that informs us how many jobs were added or lost. that is from businesses. there is a higher degree of

confidence with that number, the 2.5 million number, then when the unemployment number on any given month. on any given month, that can move because people answer questions differently with surveys. host: i am going to start with a question from one of our social media followers. this is something we have at about. this comes from nebraska. please explain why when the bureau of labor statistics released the unemployment rate, it placed a footnote that said the unemployment rate should have been 16.3% instead of 13.3%. can you tell us what that is about? there is this category where you are able to say, i have a job, and then you are asked, did you report to that job for pay for at least one hour last week?

if the answer is no, you are in this odd spot where you are responding as you are employed but not at work. there are always some people in a category, they might be on sick leave or on vacation. the number of people in this category is astonishingly high. the bureau of labor statistics is flagging that. some of those people are likely temporary laid off and not actually on the payroll of an employer. the key thing to note is that was also true for the previous report. be somewhere between 3% and 5% higher, i think it has moved down at the same scale that we saw in the report. let our viewers take over the conversation. we will start with jackie from

cleveland, ohio. he said you are out there looking for a job. what is the job market looking like for you? caller: i am still looking. i am glad that while i was on hold you started touching on the part about the footnote in the bureau of labor statistics report yesterday. know, how are they able to get away with actually 13.3%g us it is a unemployment rate, when all of the smart people work at the bureau of labor statistics should have done the math before putting this report out to the public in the first place. it is creating false hope. that is one thing i have found we have seen in this administration, they don't tell the truth. there are so many ways to cover up the truth by the way you ask the question. because this was put out from

someone from the trump administration, i don't think we should look at anything they printed. guest: thank you for bringing that up. there have been some commentators that brought that up. the former chief economist for the obama administration and theer commissioner of bureau of labor statistics for president obama, they believe this report is solid and the numbers are factual and reported in the same way as to how they would've been reported by previous administrations. that gives me a high level of confidence. these are unprecedented times. this jobs report is not made to measure what the economy looks like in a pandemic. oh my goodness, we gained 100,000 jobs, or we lost 100,000 jobs. massive, andre so

we are swinging from losing 20 million jobs, to gaining 2 million jobs, there will be more statistical variation in there. i think the labor department is being honest by saying there is reason we need to be careful about how much we read into these numbers. you are welcome to download the report online. another number i might refer to is the employment population ratio -- how many adults have a job. that number is slightly above 50%. almost half of americans do not work -- some are retired, some don't want to job, some are caring for family members. the number is certainly down from pre-pandemic levels. many americans do not have a job, and maybe they are not officially unemployed because they cannot go to work right now, but that does not mean they are not facing the anxiety of joblessness. host: let's talk to vincent from

texas. good morning. caller: how are you doing? good morning, everybody. is, dealing with the unemployment rate, i was looking at a post that was on my newsfeed saying the unemployment rate has dropped down being a truck driver, i actually work in haulingin the oilfield, water or whatnot, i don't really see a decrease in unemployment, i see an increase, being out here. i had to file for unemployment because i am not even getting a minimum amount of hours. you give me a better --lanation of how is it

something i would go through to see the unemployment rate going up some, or is that based off of the media in terms of how i would base my statistics on unemployment going up and down. guest: great question. is notmployment rate going to necessarily capture someone in your situation. if you work one hour during the week, you are employed. there are some broader measures in the report that look at people who might be underemployed. people who want a full-time job but can only find part-time work. you might fall into that category. that number is much higher. when coupled with the unemployment rate, we are talking about one in four workers saying that either do not have a job but want one, or they have a job but it is not

giving them the hours they need. host: a lot of people are trying to figure out where they fit in the unemployment report. i have one person that just texted this question -- i was furloughed from my full-time hotel job in mid-march and collected unemployment insurance. the last two weeks, i worked 15 hour shift and him still collecting unemployment insurance part how was i counted in this report? guest: that is a great question. a couple things -- one, the report that came out yesterday reflects the employment situation in the middle of may. it corresponds to either the pay period or the week of the 12th. if that person worked a few hours, they would be counted as employed, but also in the category of part-time time for

economic reasons. i am only taking a part-time job because i cannot find a full-time job. something like a quarter of american workers have been affected by this pandemic. not all have lost their jobs pertinently, but a large number have seen their hours cut, overtime cut, bonuses cut, things of this nature, even if they have not been separated from their jobs. host: this viewer only worked that 15 hour shift in the last two weeks, he was probably -- this viewer only work that one five hour shift, he was probably counted as unemployed. guest: that is right. as more people get back to work, even if it is limited, we could see the unemployment figures drop a little further. that does not mean we will see everyone return to a fall amount

of hours. host: yesterday, president donald trump discussed the latest jobless numbers and drop in the unemployment rate and progress in battling the pandemic. i want you to see what president trump said and react to it. [video clip] trump: this is a very big day for our country. this is affirmation of the work we have been doing for 3.5 years. this is not just for the last few months, this is for 3.5 years. it is a great thing. we were very strong, we had the greatest economy in the history of our country, and the history of our world, and that strength let us get through this horrible pandemic -- largely through, i think we are doing well. wehad a meeting on vaccines, are doing incredibly well with that. you will have positive surprises. ures, we are doing really well.

progress is being made on vaccines. we have ready to go in terms of transportation and logistics, we have over 2 million ready to go if it checks out for safety. the nice part is, we have four companies -- you could even say seven or eight companies -- that are doing similar, some different, on the vaccine front. some somewhat different on the therapeutic front. progress is being made. even without that, and i don't think you will have to use that in the future, that statement, i think they are going to have it, we will be back and we are opening our country. i hope the lockdown governors -- i don't know why they continue to lockdown -- if you look at georgia, florida, south

carolina, so me different places that have opened up -- i don't want to name all of them -- the ones that are most energetic about opening are doing tremendous business. you have to remember one other thing, it is important to remember many of our states are --sed, some of the big ones new york, new jersey -- they are starting to reopen now, i hope. host: how quickly can we expect those jobs in the states that are reopening now to come back? do you see those people being hired back immediately? some people will say those jobs do not come back to the third quarter of the year. what are we looking at? guest: it is hard to make an --nomic prediction, i think my anticipation is we will see a fairly quick rise continue over

the next one or two months. that will be where the question mark comes. jobs thate 20 million were lost could come back in august. that is the big question -- will we continue on this path and make a v shape recovery and things at the end of the year will look similar to the beginning of their, or will things start to flatten out as we realize, sally got her job back at the restaurant, but jim will not be going back to the airplane factory because there is less demand for air travel, and less demand for jets. we don't know how the economy will play out. but when the president is talking about states reopening and having affect, he is right about that. states that reopen and they are

allowed to stay open, you will see jobs bounce back. another numbers question from a social media follower i want you to address. asks, even michigan though 42 million people are out of a job, 20 million are getting paid through the ppp program and cannot be counted as unemployed. only 22 million and their number of unemployed and 2.5 million added jobs where those going back to work. how are those people being counted? they are not working, but they are still getting a salary. guest: if you are receiving your salary through a paycheck protection program or other means, you are employed. if you don't have to go to work, that is a decision the employer makes.

creates some uncertainty. you are being paid now, but depending on how congress acts, it is up in the air how long those funds will continue. businesses have said i might have to lay off some of the workers are brought back if these funds run out. timeolicy goal is by the you reach that point where the funds are running out, there is a line of customers out the door to eat at your restaurant. host: back to our phone lines. paulette from district heights, maryland. good morning. caller: i am employed. i work for a federal government contractor at a law enforcement agency. what is interesting is that we were waiting on the contract to be awarded.

telework. the contracten, was awarded, but many of us now have been pushed over to a subcontractor, which i thought was interesting. they claim that no one will lose their job, but who knows what will happen in the long-run? the important thing is that during times of economic crisis in change, that often when we see employers do different things, they reassess. they may do things like say, should we have an ancillary part of our business, support staff, on our payroll? or should we move them to a contractor? if you move them, that creates uncertainty for those workers. i think you will see businesses

look more automation in a new and different way, realizing that maybe you cannot have as many workers in tight corners. weis this a chance where could rely on a robot or computer to work with one usividual and therefore help keep our social distancing or be more profitable in the longer run? strong ins are really the economy is going, businesses want to keep the status quo. when things are uncertain, that is a time for change. host: betty, who is calling from what keegan, illinois. illinois.n,, caller: the virus showed that the economy was not great for everybody. until you give a living wage where people are able to put money aside and have some money to put aside, it looks like a

lot of people were living paycheck-to-paycheck. some of theselike businesses were living paycheck-to-paycheck because everybody was asking for the government to give them some money. i think the economy was not as great as they were saying it was when people are living paycheck-to-paycheck. thank you for listening to me. guest: i think a lot of people had that feeling. thisticed that even before spike, record low unemployment for many groups, and along but manyexpansion, americans did not have $500 to repair their car. they really did live paycheck-to-paycheck. one way we kind of saw that play out is the unemployment benefits were enhanced.

thisess and trump approved by $600 a week. -- recentteresting studies have shown up to five in six people receiving unemployment benefits are earning more on the benefit than they did at their jobs. with the state, you are talking about maybe $900 a week. it shows just how many americans $15earning less than that to $20 an hour range. sean from fort lauderdale, florida. he is out there looking for a job right now. good morning. eric, i am not trying to be negative, but the government has lied to us continually. unemployment is higher than 40 million. it is nothing new.

hopefully that is not the case. thank you. kind of referencing earlier, the unemployment is a fairly narrow definition. to be counted as unemployed, you need to be actively seeking work and you need to be ready to work. there is certainly, in good times and bad, a larger group of people who say they would like a but are not actively looking for work. i think particularly in this pandemic situation, there is probably an elevated number of people who cannot report to a job. if their children are not going to school, maybe they don't have childcare or maybe they are ill. i do think the unemployment rate certainly misses some of the people who lost jobs and all of

the people who are not employed. being not employed and unemployed are actually not the same thing. about half of american adults at this point do not have a job. read to you this poll that came out on june 4 and get you to react. ,he latest financial times reveals howjune 4, the coronavirus continues to have significant impacts across wide swaths of american society. americans,ne in five 21%, say they have been laid off or furloughed since the beginning of the coronavirus crisis. one third of them do not expect to be rehired or retained. more than three in four americans, 76%, say it is important for their personal financial situation that they receive a second stimulus payment.

the say they would use payment to cover basic living expensive like housing, -- expenses like housing, food, and utilities. inyou see any appetite congress and the white house for an additional stimulus payment to americans? i think the conversation has changed. payment andimulus generous unemployment benefits. quite a bit of money, trillions of dollars, pushed out earlier this spring. now we are hearing a greater degree of caution, certainly from republicans in congress and to some degree from the white house about wanting to continue at that level. people are concerned about the debt. we have a whole show on that,

but we are certainly taking on a tremendous amount of debt to crisis and hows we calibrate this will be interesting. now andt more stimulus make sure the economy comes back sooner or do we need to be worried about the long-term and not wanting to pylon debt that our -- to pile on debt? charlie from new york. charlie is unemployed but looking for a job. what is going on? retiredi am officially but i thought i could throw in some sense. i worked for years in the employment and training administration for a county within new york state. they weree times when normal, not like now, all of the

folks who worked for the labor department as well as for the county new -- for the county knew the unemployment rate was not real. it did not include it, is people have said it who have blocked -- who have stopped looking for work, people who have not applied. one area -- because i ran also the work programs -- welfare clients who are on public assistance are not included in the number. respect, itall due is hard to believe that that wall street depends on these reports because they are totally inaccurate. i do not care, with all due respect to the gentleman who has a lot of knowledge from the wall street journal, it is baloney. is i woulding too

love to know if the wall street journal -- there are people making money left and right as the market is going up. the market is going up. what is the percentage of people who have no dollar in the market? those who have a job who basically -- front-line workers who do not have any benefits and get paid very little. that is something to take into consideration because -- host: go-ahead there, eric. i hear you on the markets and the markets not being the economy. i am a firm believer that though the markets can tell you something, they do not tell the whole story. there are some that disagree and think that markets are the best economic indicator.

i do not have the percentage in front of me, but you are right. there is a large percentage of americans who work paycheck-to-paycheck, do not have a 401(k), stock portfolio, and are not benefiting from what we have seen, which is actually a very v-shaped recovery in financial markets. with the bls report, i do not dispute that there are challenges with the data. i think they are pretty plain if you look at all the details of what those are. the reason why the unemployment rate is watched as carefully as it is is because it is the measured the is exact same way over a very long period of time, back to the 1940's. though what it captures is maybe not what they wanted to capture, i give them credit for not changing it so i can compare where we are now to where we are in the 1950's. host: another question from carrie from rapid city, south

dakota. good morning. caller: yeah. i was listening to the guy living paycheck-to-paycheck. and, you know, and my husband and i felt that way during the obama years. we areot now because just saving money like crazy. we got $3000 extra in our paycheck now. and then i was listening to the guy from new york just there and he was telling me that the numbers -- people don't include the numbers of welfare and people that quit beenng, so that must've the obama years that the unemployment rate was even higher during those years, too. it must be the same.

the thing is is we feel extremely secure now. and my daughter, for the first yearsn, in probably 10 that she was working to will -- she was working full-time before this. she was working in the convention center. she was on food stamps and bought a car, i mean, she was doing good. think there is a question that the unemployment numbers are higher now than they have been in the past, is there? guest: no. the longer-term view, when the last recession ended in 2009, the unemployment rate was somewhere a little above 10%. it fell over the course of the next decade. the unemployment rate was higher during the entirety of the obama administration then it was in

the trump administration until two months ago. i will leave it for the voters to decide whose economic policies caused that. deafinly the recension recession, we should mention, started before president obama was in office. some have said his policies did not go far enough to bring the unemployment rate down quickly enough. touting a 50ly was year low unemployment rate in january and february. now we are close to the highest levels reported since world war ii. the numbers will change a few more times before we get to november. the: we would like to thank labor, economics, and a policy reporter for coming this morning and helping us decipher these unemployment numbers. eric, thank you. coming out, we will turn our attention back to the protests

across the united states and the world following the death of george floyd. -- joseph joined by of the university of texas austin. we will be back. >> this week, jimmy carter, bill clinton, george w. bush, and barack obama made statements concerning the killing of george floyd in minneapolis. carter,sident dehumanizing people debases us all. humanity is beautifully and almost infinitely diverse. the bond of our common humanity must overcome the divisiveness of our fears and prejudices. agoident clinton, 50 years dr. king dream of a day when his

children would be judged by the content of their character. even, that dream seemed more out of reach, and we will never reach it if we keep treating people of color with the unspoken assumption that they are less human. president bush said, this tragedy and a series of tragedies raises a long-overdue question -- how do we end systemic racism in our society? the only way to see ourselves in a true light is to listen to the voices of so many who are hurting. those who set out to silence those voices do not understand the meaning of america or how it becomes a better place. said, itdent obama falls on all of us, regardless of race or station, including the majority of men and women in law enforcement who take pride in doing their job the right way every day, to work together to create a new normal in which the legacy of bigotry and unequaled infects our longer

institutions or hearts. you can read the entire statements online at c-span.org. >> american history tv on to be span three, exploring the people the people and events. tonight at 10:00 eastern on real america, the 1957 u.s. commissioner film called education 50, looking at issues surrounding schools at the time. on american artifacts, part two of the african american heritage trail tour through mobile, alabama. emancipation in washington dc paired the experiences of newly freed african-americans -- following the 1862 columbia emancipation act. exploring american history.

watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> we are back and we will open up our phone lines and start a ourussion with you, callers, about the civil unrest and peaceful protests following the death of george floyd at the hands of the mean apple's police. we will open up regional lines for you. if you are in the each stern -- eastern or central time zones, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, your number is going to be, (202) 748-8001. if you have something you want to tell us today by text, you can text us at (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social

wjia on twitter at c-span and on facebook. our guest andin have him talk to us about what he sees with the protests around george floyd. we are joined by pineal -- by peniel joseph. good morning. i was about to read to our viewers a column you have call thehere you george floyd death a moment of generational opportunity. what youxplain to us mean by generational opportunity here? guest: these protests we are at longrovide, finally, last, this generational opportunity to confront and have a plan to end institutional

racism in all facets of our society, to defeat white to institutionalize black dignity and citizenship, and to finally achieve our country. this is about more than the criminal justice system. it needs to be transformed from top to bottom in the united states, but the justice system is a gateway to panoramic systems of oppression connected to welfare, education, housing, employment, childcare, health care, segregation, inequality in neighborhoods, inequality in our tax policy, homelessness, mental health and physical health. -- whate so hopeful is hopeful about this moment is the number of people who have come out peacefully, the large numbers of white allies who are part of this movement as well.

they see their stories in the collective tragedy of not just george floyd but beyond it and so many thousands who have been killed, but even more who have been killed by the structural violence of institutional racism and white supremacy. i have been heartened by the number of people who have reached out to me in austin, texas connected to the business community, civic community, civil rights organizations, faith leaders, and even law enforcement who want to change and transform the status quo in the united states, people are marching, protesting, but they are also interested in policy changes. what they can do at the local level. premature deaths for black people, what can be put into invest in communities to

streets, bute neighborhoods that are racially integrated where people are living as one community all around the world -- country? you do at thewhat center for the study of race and democracy at the university of texas. tell us what it does and what people can see in the public from what you do. research fellows, both undergraduate and graduate, who are doing research based here in austin at the intersection of race and democracy, on the voting rights act, housing, criminal justice. some of their policy briefs can be found online. we do public gatherings and convening's where we -- convenings where we bring some of the best leaders around issues of race and democracy. we have had speakers like the president of the league of the

gates, fund, henry louis khalil mohammed, to come together to talk about what we -- in a public history and educational way to transform social and political and racial inequities in our time. devoted tonner racial justice, antiracism, -- we are a center devoted to racial justice, antiracism, but focusing on the policy mechanisms that will achieve equality. i want to go back to this generational opportunity comment. the protests over george floyd different from any of the protests we have seen in the past, going back to trayvon martin, michael brown, eric

garner? what makes these different? guest: i think a few things. the constellation of the covid-19 pandemic. on one level, we could say george floyd out re-in the covid-19 pandemic only to be felled by the far deadlier virus of white supremacy on may 25, 202. 0. the combination of the pandemic has raised national consciousnesses. it was not just black people talking about it. this was mainstream america. death, byt harder by being identified as diagnosed with covid-19, but also we were more vulnerable to it because of these long-standing inequities, including african-americans seem more public facing workers at the post office, amazon,

delivery services, meatpacking, who were very much vulnerable to cover 19. mass unemployment. 40 million people out of work. aboutemployment went down 2% with the new figures. african-american unemployment went down .01%. coupled with the latest tragedy. different this time is that we see widespread multiracial, multicultural demonstrations. even though this is about black lives, this is also about just american citizenship. you are seeing so many different asian,latinx, indigenous, so many people who people fromrans, different communities who understand that the structural violence utilized to kill george

prematurely, impacts their own lives. that is what is so hopeful and inspiring about this time. when we think about these past protests, i have been indicated withdent -- inundated calls about how different stakeholders can help. we are not seeing the same kind of pushback. when we think about black lives matter and people saying all lives matter, blue lives matter. people get it. we understand now that the nfl protests were not about the flag. it is not about trying to disrespect the flag or america. in theest patriotism united states is when you see something wrong, you speak up in defense of that person's humanity, citizenship, in defense of this country's values. really are seeing now is

-- as somebody who is a christian and who grew up in a black baptist church in new york city, this is the call on the road to the damascus moment for the united states, where paul was a soldier, was doing bad. he had this epiphany and he het, he this prop becomes some willing to die for his beliefs on behalf of humanity. there have already been announcements at the local level of different municipalities who to redistributing funds used incarcerate, demonize, and punish black and brown communities to invest. we have seen nfl players come out with a video that made me cry. during the past days, i have cried several times, including

seeing the george floyd video. i cried when i saw the nfl players say i am breonna taylor, ahmaud arbery, george floyd. men, women,t children who have been dying over the past few decades. we know it needs to happen and i am heartened so many people have come out to promote racial justice and equality. host: you speak of pushback. one of our social media followers was to push back on you right now. i will let you answer this. says "can you point to actual evidence that proves mr. floyd's death was an issue of racism, as opposed to a power-hungry cop or two men who did not like each other?" the pattern of police violence historically

against african-american communities, whether it is breonna taylor or michael brown or the police who stopped sandra texas when here in she was on her way to texas a&m for her first job. we know, historically in contemporaneously, there is systematic evidence of police bias and racism against african-american communities. that person, you can definitely look at the department of justi ce's report on baltimore and other cities that found systematic patterns of anti-black racism. another data driven report you can look at is when the justice department was led by attorney general eric holder and loretta lynch. eric holder said there were disparate sentencings throughout the united states based on race,

where people who are black-and-white and who had committed the same crimes, and those who were african-american received harsher sentences solely based on race. so we had the data and the evidence to prove what was going on. the numbers of african-americans who die from choke holds in police departments, for instance. right now, the minneapolis police are saying they are going --in that, but we have saying they are going to end that, but we have a history of this. there are books, the war on poverty to the war on crime by elizabeth henton. here,w jim crow, no mercy all thein silence, works of callie gross about black women incarcerated in the 19th and 20th century. so we have the data. what is so important now is that

people are ready to the investment in black dignity and citizenship so we can finally, at long last, achieve our country. host: let's have our viewers take part in the conversation, james is calling from charlotte, north carolina. caller: good morning. the problem i have with some of the intellectuals here, like a person has said the definition -- it could've have been to angry people. i don't even see the reason to explain things like that. these current protests, these young kids have moved on. they don't deal with that silliness. i've never seen a white person on the ground getting choked out. doesn't happen, but

to test these minute details that these people are trying to bring up. like they are hitting the police and thinning black people. there are no consequences if you beat a black person and there are consequences if you hit the police. going have got to stop back to deal with these petty innuendos. these protesters, these young kids have moved on. they are beyond that. they are not playing these silly games with the silly people. that's my comment. i hope you intellectuals stop dealing with that and move on to get to the things that solve the problem. host: go ahead and respond. guest: i couldn't agree more. i think we are moving forward as a nation and one of the things you saw was the push of debt pushback against drew brees

about his comments on the flag and patriotism and players telling him in no uncertain terms is not about that. it's about black lives in black humanity. abouts case it's really universal rights and universal humanity, but through the lens of black people. we have to understand that if we achieve black dignity and citizenship it will be for everyone. cause.our i agree that we have to move steps and concrete terms, holding people accountable. and is 11 days of marching we have to hold our structures accountable and move towards racial justice. it's the work of a generation but we can achieve it. host: since you brought up drew brees i have to ask, doesn't drew brees have the right to think and say what he wants? guest: he has every right. we have the right to educate

brother brees. we have the right to save not about the flag, it's about black lives bleeding for democracy since before the founding of the republic. we cannot live in the united states of amnesia, we cannot allow white denial, white fragility to not talk about our lives and our reality. based oneality is white supremacy. how many black soldiers came back from different floors and were lynched and segregated. world war ii soldiers came back and literally had their eyes gouged out. we have a horrific history. it might not be something that brother drew brees understands, but he should be educated on that history before he speaks out against that history and the current reality. absolutely. host: felix is calling from north carolina. good morning. c-span,r. joseph,

america, good morning, how are you? host: doing just fine. guest: i have a couple of things to say, you have a gentleman from pennsylvania on your last segment talking about the whiskey rebellion. america has a rich history of political and mercantile protests. it was called on december 16 simmer 16th 17 set -- december 16 1773 with the boston tea party. and there's a solution that might be very simple that's overlooked, whenever people do that, like mr. floyd. ieir first offense is subjectively feel my life is threatened, so i have a right to defend myself, even with deadly force. , in myively means opinion, it's the way he feels, not evidence. from change that

subjectively to objectively, meaning there is fact, that at the time of death the police officer actually has evidence that his life is in danger, not like mr. floyd with four people on his back. one of the people you can hear saying get up and get in the respond, his response i will if i get -- if you get off my back. thank you. america, we love you. have a good day. host: go ahead and respond. criminalen it comes to justice what i will say is this, it's more about -- it's more than transforming the criminal justice system, it's where we invest as a nation and how do we bring the nation together in equality. part of that has to do with not investing resources in a criminal justice system which is designed to contain, punish,

incarcerate, and criminalize the entire african-american population. including people who are wealthy and famous who have been racially profiled who have run into the police. disadvantaged and those who have been incarcerated. can transform this is not necessarily more body we have to plow massive resources into communities, black communities, where those resources have not been put in over the last 50 years. we went from a war on poverty to a war on crime in the context of the great society. putting the federal government in the business of fighting crime and we define crime as black people. not just black adults, but black children, which is why we have children being punished and expelled from public schools. we have five and six-year-old black children who are arrested in handcuffs.

this is a crisis, we are in a national emergency. that's why we are seeing the protests. host: i had to ask this question. you see peaceful demonstrations, you have seen separately looting and vandalism. what are those -- are they connected in any way? does one make the other less important? i would add a third, there's an article in the new york times discussing the police writing that has happened -- rioting that has happened. there's massive peaceful protest, we have documented evidence of not only police brutality in places here in austin, in my hometown, a 20-year-old man is in a coma after being hit in the head with a rubber bullet, two people have lost eyes to rubber bullets, we

have seen pepper spray and tear gas used in ways that are not professional, they are about punishing and violence. we psy 75-year-old man being pushed and cracked his skull in buffalo. there's peaceful protest, police violence in places like new york city, my hometown, where the mayor has no control over cops were brutalizing protesters, and looting. those are three different things. i don't thing the violence that we are seeing overwhelms the message for people who have empathy in their hearts and are ready to understand the message. we should not see any violence, what we are seeing violence from not peaceful protesters, but from two sources, a law enforcement that is outraged that their authorities being

questioned, their legal authority in their moral morality -- and their authority, and we are seeing looting and violence by people trying to take advantage of mass gatherings. those are three things. i would argue that we are at a place in our history where the idea of saying that because of this violence we need more law & order like 1968, we will appeal to the silent majority which was really an appeal to white supremacy. we will use code words like law & order, thugs, intercity -- inner-city, underclass. those days are over. no more. people understand and a cross racial, multi-ratio, multi generational, all thai class multi-class even way that we know it's at stake. how can we build a society where

peaceful protest flourishes, where police are allies in the peaceful protest and we make sure that when we are having those peaceful protests, no one can take advantage and try to loot and foam and violence. but the police will not also indiscriminately target and attack american citizens for asserting their regal -- legal right to peaceful protest. is calling from montana. good morning. guest: good morning. a thousand things to talk about. everybody getting hurt on both sides of the line, and there's a curfew, 8:00. if you are out after curfew, nobody would have been hurt if they were at home.

and it's cry, cry, cry, cry. there's black cops getting hurt but you don't hear about that. you have black tops getting killed, you don't hear about that. you only hear about the blacks getting shot. george floyd is the ninth black country, year in the we hear all about black men get shot, but if you look at the statistics, 19 white people have been shot this year and armed by cops. blow it something, you up and always me, me, me, us, us, us, poor us. there's jobs to be had, employers all over the country looking for help. there are people who don't want to work.

living off of i don't know, selling drugs, they have to do something for a living. but this is insane. host: go ahead and respond. years the man who was 75 old in buffalo is a great example of authoritarianism. we should not be up for -- promoting an authoritarian society and that we have seen such a police brutality and violence during the last 11 days shows us that we have something fundamentally wrong in our justice system. blackis is something activists have been saying first century. part, terms of the other that's part of the narrative of anti-black racism. that is black people were complaining when really white people had produced the wealth of this country, both through racial slavery, but also their

labor and their labor being exploited, including in this age of mass incarceration. there is monetary value on every black life, but it's not accrued by black people. it's accrued by corporate powers , by groups by the national football league, by people who are benefiting from a racial cast system that we have in the united states and that even if you are a poor white person you have real privilege and better treatment from the criminal in a way that a black person, does not have. that kind of denial is exactly what this protest shows we are moving past. another question from a social media follower who wants

to ask about a different topic. this is from chris. what is the importance of removing conservative ron -- monuments around the country in the context of the george floyd protest? we saw the removal of the robert and astatue in virginia few confederate statues in one of the outlying cities around washington d.c. guest: it's unbelievably important to remove confederate symbols. the confederacy is a symbol of white supremacy and treason against the united states of america. the civil war was an act of insurrection against the constitution and against the declaration of independence. --celebrate robert ely isert ely -- robert e lee the same thing as celebrating a war criminal.

so understand that we have such an intense problem with education and a narrative of understanding what this country is founded on. ofs founded on the principle citizenship and liberty and equality for all. and it sounded on the principles of racial slavery. but we have expanded american democracy and fought the civil war over the issue of slavery. it's about states right -- is not about states rights, it's about slavery. whether america is going to be antislavery or a flourishing proslavery economy. the confederacy is a national shame, it's a national embarrassment for the united states. for those who cling to the canederacy and say that you cling onto these monuments while not exposing your allegiance to white supremacy, those days are over. the confederate statues all over the united states should be taken down. the people we should praise, are

those who gave their lives to defend american democracy and promote racial equality and racial integration and racial justice. we have had historically white allies who gave up their lives blacks, people being abused and oppressed. the confederacy is something that should be relegated to teaching and studying so we should learn -- so we can learn mistake ofat the worshiping at the altar of white supremacy and black dehumanization. --t: jimmy is calling from jenny is calling from greenville, south carolina. guest: good morning. had,f the questions i've mimi me about african-american people.

and what if he had the police would him on the ground, put him, put three on his back and one knee on his , and i bet you then he will say me, me, me. -- i will sayion it like this, i never had any respect for the kkk, the white supremacists. been an instance it's they fight fair weapons.ns or gangs or

host: go ahead and respond. was reallyconnection rough, what was she asking? host: she was discussing the use protesters in america and what you think about that, that was the summary. guest: oh this is where we have withechoes historically the civil rights movement. one of the things that the narrative of the civil rights whitent sanitizes is vigilante violence and police violence against peaceful demonstrators. --remember selma alabama salmon, alabama. a congressman had his goal cracked on the bridge. and we remember birmingham, alabama. german shepherds and fire hoses that could strip the bark off of

trees that were directed against protesters peacefully marching. of there will be scores time, including dr. king almost being killed in canton, mississippi, and police were the ones precipitating the violence. law enforcement has been used as a vehicle to constrain and punish black citizens throughout american history. blackot of ways, when people come out peacefully to citizensthey are not and blackorcement, lies have never been defended by law enforcement in a meaningful racialn you about massacres throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries. theust commemorated

anniversary of tulsa, oklahoma, which was mastercard -- massacred. thatuse of violence, now we have so many white protesters were being victimized, it's casting a strobe light and exposing all of our illusions about american democracy. all of these lies that america tells itself. that's an opportunity. that's how you can have change through this exposure. and the way that we have so many white allies in states like utah and oregon, people protesting and saying that black lives matter it and this needs to be institutionalized is something .hat's beautiful and hopeful i agree with dr. martin luther king jr., who said that love defeats hate.

violence, wes should utilize peaceful protest, and really utilize the power of policy change alongside empathy to change institution, structures, hearts, and minds, but we are at an inflection point. this is a watershed moment. we've never seen anything like this. and we are ready for this generational opportunity. this is not necessarily about our elected leaders, even though voting matters. this is not about the president of the united states, who is a to these demonstrations and these protests. people want to transform this country. you do that locally. you do that regionally. you do it statewide, then you do it nationally. but this is about where you act, in your own backyard. where is the inequality and how can you push the situation?

host: you have a new book out called the sword and the shield, a revolutionary lives novel of martin luther king jr.. quotingseen a lot of from art as are king jr., a ride as the language of the unheard. it's been used a lot lately. how do we interpret that quote for today? who i haveking, studied my whole life, somebody who was a nonviolent political revolutionary who sided always with the poor, the meek, and the disadvantaged. what he meant when he said a riot if the language of the unheard is that we as a society have to dig deep and find out what were the roots of the mass protests and demonstrations and civil disturbances and political rebellions. there were hundreds between 1963

in 1968. dr. king's last full year on this earth was 1967 which had two big civil disturbances in newark, new jersey, and detroit, michigan. what dr. king said with the more we see a narrative of -- of law & order, and political oppression, not from one party or another but in a bipartisan way, dr. king said we cannot just look at the violence without looking at the roots behind the violence. are we having a violent society that is racially integrated where children are being fed and nourished and everyone has decent housing and universal basic income and good employment and they are still being violent? youhat's the case then yes, can say we have to stop this. but king said the violence is coming out of deep structural inequities in the united states, based on antiblack racism, based

on white supremacy. king is not the only person he said this, but the kerner commission, published in march of 1968 said the same thing. the united states is moving black, two nations, white, separate, hostile, unequal. generationalother opportunity to transform american democracy. violently down on containing and incarcerating and punishing an dis-investing in black communities. this is what we have wrought. book is about malcolm x and martin luther king jr.. one of malcolm x's famous closes the chicken is coming home to roost, he said that in the aftermath of president kennedy's assassination periods not -- assassination. not to delight, but to say that

the violence has boomerang to and the sitting president was unjustly assassinated. the chickens have come to roost in the united states of america now. racism,ns all of the the economic inequality, the mass incarceration and investment from black communities and investment in withnities to punish, racial segregation in public school segregation and the legal decisions which have set us away from the desegregation, which have virtually nullified the voting rights act, to use voter id to prevent black and brown people from voting has voter suppression and further racial segregation and black suffering. amplifying9 crisis, african-american vulnerability, pre-existing vulnerability and showed a panoramic system.

all of this is coming home to unrest.d civil we can respond in two ways. we can say we are going to be the law & order nation and give over 50 something percent of our votes to george wallace and richard nixon, a combination of repugnantst morally racists in the 20 century or we could choose love over hate. .ntegration over segregation we can choose justice over .iolence we can choose to nourish and feed our population, to desegregate our population and to embrace with an e to policy transformation what this country needs. is that dr. king argued the united states's whole purpose was to achieve freedom. in a letter from a birmingham jail he said the young people

who are being imprisoned and incarcerated in birmingham, alabama, to try to desegregate the city, were bringing the whole nation to those great wells of democracy which were dug deep by the founding fathers. to achieve thee beloved community in our own time. a community free of racial injustice, multicultural, multiracial, a community that adheres to a love ethic. justice is what love looks like in public. this is a community that is antipoverty. it's a community that not only lgtbqtes lgt bq -- sisters and brothers but embraces them. we have health care and universal basic income and housing and we are not antagonistic but we understand that collectively and mutually

we have to live together to thrive as a democracy. host: let's get a couple of callers before the end of the segment. reginald is calling from amarillo, texas. guest: how are you doing today? --caller: how are you doing today? guest: i am well. all of the black people that have been fighting for this country up, they don't care about us, going to tell you something. like people, if we don't get out of this country, they are going to kill us. they love us when we play sports , when we play in the nfl, we are nothing but million-dollar slaves. host: go ahead and respond. guest: that statement speaks for itself. i don't agree that we should be

publicly executing anyone, what we are trying to achieve is the beloved community that dr. king talked about but that requires shared sacrifice. that requires black people and , asian ande, latinx indigenous people of goodwill to come together. we are talking about at the granular level we live in a country where black people don't have access to the best neighborhoods because of zoning policies, density policies. we need to transform that, even poor whites get access to the supply chain of privilege that comes with having access to nice neighborhoods with resources. and black people go supply of grief and criminalization which comes from being in racially segregated ghettos.

we have a generational opportunity to reimagine american democracy. daysracy over the last 11 will be in boardrooms, schoolrooms, it's on social media, where people are saying we have to to change the status quo. we have to change the status quo because it's not tenable for the flourishing of democracy. and we all want the country to flourish. caller, steve, from ohio. guest: thank you very much. now,nk democracy, right has spread its wings. i think the people are catching on to what's going on in the country. parallel, in order to curb , i violence, or looting

think for example the mayor, mayor de blasio should direct to marche department within protesters. maintain am, to peaceful march. host: should police be marching with the protesters? guest: i think lee should be defending protesters. protesters are not anti-police. they are anti-ace system that is using the police at the tip of marginalize and brutalize black people. i think police should understand that and we should have a society that reimagines policing, that we have proper not at thebut expense of our children, our babies, our families, our communities.

our clean water for us to drink. and also decent housing and proper education. there is a way we can transform society, where we have a new deal for everyone. where we transform the miserable condition on the face of this earth and really transform what we mean by citizenship. right now we don't have black dignity and citizenship for the black people in this country. if we achieve that it will reverberate to all groups that are being marginalized. all groups that are being oppressed. all groups that are overly incarcerated. lifetime,this in our we have a generational opportunity, we can roll up our city -- our sleeves and get to work. the greatest act of love and patriotism is the right to protest for right. that's what people are doing. people in the streets are the

patriots, they love this country more than the country has left them back, historically. they are ready to transform this thetry, we have to look at optimism. would like to thank penial joseph, from the university of texas, austin. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you for having me. host: coming up, we are going to go back to our original question, what do you think is the role of the military during civil unrest. you see the number on the screen. we will be right back. ♪ >> sunday night on q hyundai, peggy wallace kennedy, daughter andormer alabama governor candidate, george wallace, talked about her father's controversial career area inspiring her to write her

recent book. >> back in 1996, we took our ,oungest son, nine at the time to the martin luther king museum historical site in atlanta. we went to his church and his grave and over to the museum. we were going through the exhibit and we came to the exhibit of alabama. and it showed the bombed out church, the bridge, fire hoses and dogs in birmingham. and george wallace standing in a schoolhouse store. andmy son looked up at me he said he was so sad, why did popeye do those things to other do those things

to other people? it broke my heart. i said that he never told me why he did those things to other people, but i know he was wrong. maybe it's up to you and me to make things right. at 8:00 sunday night eastern on c-span skew and day. a.c-span's q and host: we are back and we are going back to our original question for the show, what do you think the role of the military is during civil unrest in the united states. availableecial lines for the national guard, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. active-duty military will call in at (202) 748-8001. veterans (202) 748-8002. --ryone else caller:

.veryone else (202) 748-8003 and today is the anniversary of d-day, we have a tweet from the army saying that today is a day to honor our heroes, troops landed along a 50 mile stretch of heavily fortified french coastline to fight nazi germany on the beaches of normandy. so for all of you who have served our country, we want to acknowledge you and say thank you for your service. we are going back to our phone lines and we will start with one , from veterans, larry massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm a veteran of the vietnam war. and fortunately i was one of the few who made it home, but came home with systemic medical

orange. from agent i was also discharged the same day that martin luther king was assassinated. veteran, home as a spit on, called the baby killer and so forth. i think what's happening today is appalling but we need to look at this opportunity, that we have today, to take care of our folks once and for all. we have bled for this country, we have fought for this country, we have built for this country, and it's time for us to reap the benefits of our labor. host: and how do you think the military should be -- or do you think the military should be unrest quelling civil inside the united states borders? caller: i don't think it's necessary. if you have the police officers

who are in the regular police, they are mostly military or have had military training. and military training teaches you how to kill. of thenot the purpose military and civil discord. sylvia, fromo to virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i feel like the military should use, ilast resort to feel sorry for george floyd's family. them, i gots out to up -- my heart because out to many annapolis. but if the police need help, they should be as a presence to protect the stores and the people. thank you. ,ost: let's talk to willie calling from sarasota, florida.

good morning. i'm a veteran in the united states army and i wanted to give a comment to the people soldiere, when you are you have to fight the hardest, that's what we were trained to do. thoser job is to protect who we fought for. to say we will put down anybody who tries to destroy it, from the top to the bottom. that's all i'm saying, i appreciate the time. thank you. want to other news, we point out this story in politico. joe biden has clinched a majority of delegates to the democratic convention, locking up the presidential nomination according to the associated press.

won just over the minimum number required to secure the nomination. for biden it was a matter of when, not if he would hit the number after senator sanders and his and pain in early april, following a string of dominating victories. this is one of the most talented groups of candidates the democratic party has ever fielded he said and i am proud to say that we are going to an election as a united party. i'm going to spend every day november 3 tod earn the votes of american so that together we can win the battle for the soul of this nation and make sure that we rebuild our economy. everyone comes along.

joe biden has officially clinched the democratic nomination, and will be the standardbearer against president 'sump in this fall presidential election. let's go back to our phone line, pat is calling from hollywood, florida, pat is a veteran. morning. caller: good morning. i am a veteran. and i do not agree that the military has a role. we had the national guard, which which -- which should be the one and only defense of the country unless we are in a military war, or if there's something pending or imminent which would involve the true role of the military. but most importantly we have a president that cannot be trusted to utilize the military. emotionally he cannot take anything wrong set against him

so he will use the military anyway he can for his own good, instead of for the good of the country. let's talk to al, from maryland, also a veteran. good morning. caller: good morning. i tried to get in earlier. i may 78-year-old african-american. i would like to make it known that i fit all three categories. i started as a military segregatedin the unit in washington, d.c.'s national guard, i went to active-duty. and i want to say to the young people. stay on the street. please be peaceful. and please let this old man see some parity before he moves on. the military should not be in the street. as a d.c. garden military policeman we were in support, not attack. is calling from

florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to go along with a .ot of them the military job is the same as the police comments to protect and serve, but we need the but there should be no businesses being --, the mayors and the local leaders need to let the police force to join hands with the protesters, so you can keep the violence and the unrest at a low raise. see and if you are citizens of the local community, because every local community needs people like that that are and let the people

who are doing the rest of that they are standing back from tearing up the city. but they need to see that everyone is coming together. is calling from los angeles, california. good morning. i'd like to put a twist on this. i was at a rally yesterday, we had a lot of national guard out there. one of the things i kept asking these particular national guards is where the brothers that? , it was justasked like with the police force. it's predominately a white police force, which somebody said is part of maintaining white supremacy. the twist i would like to put on this was something that happened in new york, where you had the

police pushed down a 70-year-old by, and the police walked but the national guard assisted this man. i am saying that we might have to call in the national guard because we have a police riot. and it's like the lady in always thinkswho that the spear is for their use, thesennot imagine forces canunits are be stood up to protect the rights of black people who were obviously -- the rights of black people is robbie sleeping violated.

why didn't the national guard command to take the knee off of the head of a black man. host: fred is calling from syracuse, new york, he is a veteran as well. caller: good morning. i love watching your show. complicated., it's of could see pictures integrating schools back in the 50's and there's the national , those are profound , yous, and on the others see now the national guard being used for civil unrest. if the situation is getting out of hand for the local cops you should use the national guard. but both of those should be used for disasters to help out disaster relief because today's police have almost the same has.ment that the military

and if police forces can handle the situation, bringing in the national guard is a show of force. it can be overdone. opinion is that you use them for disaster relief. little boy traveling on the road in the 50's, i remember sing the national guard protecting the greyhound buses. i appreciate you taking my call. host: scott is calling from canaan, maine. he is a veteran as well. say this hast to been a fiasco. if the military is called in or even the national guard, they should stand down.

they have to know that this is not just one state, it's across the nation. things that they would be or maybe trying to do are going to be happening to their parents and the state can fry them -- came for them. this government is in breach of contract with its people. that is something that needs to be thought about, considered, and debated among active members of the military and the national guard. it's a problem. it's been here for a long time. and before you deploy for government who would sling you around the world for their purposes, you should stop and think about it. ross, at's talk to veteran from parrish, florida. caller: just on the face of it it's wrong.

you just need to look at history. thatat all these countries the military has been used to quell civil unrest. it never ends well. ever. this is insane. hope more american people wake up. and i have never been more crop -- more proud of the millenials than i am today. keep it up. actuallyhington is preparing for a major protest me, between behind the capital and the white house. president trump has tweeted about the use of military today in washington. here is what he tweeted earlier this morning. riot gear or military control is andnecessary because antifa other wacko groups of an archivist are not present to cause trouble. incredible people. thank you maine.

that's coming out of the white house in reaction to the protest being planned for washington. let's get in a few calls. we will start with patty, from harrisburg, pennsylvania. caller: good morning to you. i'm very concerned about the put on their own people. in trying to break up a riot or .omething it's a sad thing for our country to have the military getting people in the country. trump, the things he says, the things he does. he has problems.

, goinghink the military against our people, it's a sad thing when the country has their own people in the military fighting them. host: tom is a veteran from green bay, wisconsin. caller: good morning. spins back tothis prior to the national guard getting involved and it goes to where i see the black lives matter issue, which is a real and definite issue. they are probably the most persecuted race. and a lot of the black pastors and some of the politicians seem to be getting really close to ,anting to say what they think but are backing off due to social pressure. to start outssue

with i believe what is a racial issue. a social and economic issue. it's a matter of the police finding it much easier to arrest and harassed and prosecute for people. they are less likely to get defense. when they do, they are public defenders who are 80% of the time are not trained in criminal justice. require an will attorney who applies to be on the board and practice law to do so many months or a year as a public defender. peoplee the lower income targeted, the lowest and most vulnerable in that group are black individuals. i have lived all over the country in major cities and small cities. i'm currently at home with cancer so i have nothing to do

but to focus on the news. the poor people are the target. afterly thing that comes that or people with a conviction. even a misdemeanor which makes them more likely to get rearrested. you have that systemic problem in the first place, and a lot of good men and women joining the police force. their hearts are in the right place, their heads are in the right place and they wind up in a system which is very broken. we used to have a justice system. we now have a legal system. we used to have police departments, now we have police forces. what you get from a force? force. uticabill is calling from , new york. he's former national guard. good morning. caller: good morning. host: when you are in the national guard, did you get crowd control training? instructor forn

the national guard for crowd control. we called it civil disturbance training. andained military police new officers. placesnd what type of did your training end up within the national guard? caller: national guard people are from the community that has been called up. and alwaysle at work of people in the united states. host: and what do you think about the use of the national guard now being used by the current administration around the country? if the governor needs us, we are there.

it's the call for the local police department and state police who cannot handle it. we are normally there for civil disturbance if it gets out of control. beyond the police departments and the state police. do you think active-duty military from the army, navy, air force and marines should be used as well? caller: absolutely not. law that says they cannot be used. the national guard can handle just about anything. we handled the floods during l myra, we handled the prison guard strikes and if it was not for us, there would be a lot of unrest in all states. lucille is calling from los angeles, california. good morning.

i don't think the military should be used against the people. i think the military should stand to defend the people and personally, it would not be bad for them to look at the white house. thank you. is calling from jacksonville beach, florida. duane is a veteran. good morning. caller: good morning. i disagree with the military inng used to participate controlling what appears to be for the most part civil protesting. , ormilitary is designed provides protection against -- for the constitution. -- be it foreign or domestic. when we turn the military it suggest people

that we have called people to be enemies of america. and i totally disagree. host: do you have a problem with the national guard being used in this way? caller: i don't have a problem with the national guard being called up by the governor to determine whether it is essential to assist law enforcement in managing the protests, but to use them as atbatants, when we look people as enemies, i would have a problem with that. a -- and let's take an anna, calling from connecticut. caller: good morning. thank you c-span. i would like to say, the is not physically

throwing bottles but he does it through his words and his twitter. and i think he missed a great opportunity when they had the spaceship to go up to bring some unity to the american people. you have a little kid sitting around on the floor waiting for that spaceship to go out, and i was praying that there was no partisanism.m -- president inut the the past, i don't know the facts but i don't think a space program will stop completely. there are others in the background, working, the engineers. there may not have been a ship, but the kids, i was glad to have someone welcome the russian and show unity in the whole global system. and like i said, he missed an

opportunity to unite, i think. one final call from mary, from arizona. i'm calling to tell you that i do not feel the military should be deployed on national land, but we should applaud them because they have shown themselves to be the true heroes of our democracy. thank you. host: we would like to thank all of our callers and our viewers, and especially would like to say to our veterans, thank you for your service. everyone, have a safe saturday. we will see you tomorrow at 7:00 for another episode. ♪ [inaudible] [indiscernible] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020]

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