economic adviser casey mulligan talks about the human and financial costs of shutting down the u.s. economy during the coronavirus pandemic. washington journal is next. ♪ after 1000 marched the streets of washington, d.c., an estimated 140 cities nationwide, the brother of george floyd is scheduled to be on capitol hill this week. he will testify before the house judiciary committee on wednesday. the hearing is time old -- titled "policing practices and accountability." we welcome you to the washington journal. we will be discussing saturday's demonstrations ahead on the program and what they mean for the country, but in our first hour, we turn our attention to

campaign 2020. joe biden reached the 1991 delegates needed to win the thecratic nomination, so official race is on between biden and president trump. our opening question, will you vote to reelect the president? if you say yes, (202) 748-8000. if you say no, (202) 748-8001. if you are undecided, (202) 748-8002. you can also join us on social media. we will take your tweets at @cspanwj. on facebook as well as are in you can also send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. thank you for joining us. we will get to your calls in just a moment. this is a headline from axios.com, as troubles continue to grow for the president in his reelection effort. president trump's confronting the most dire political presidency,of his with his support dropping fast, from texas to wisconsin, even among his base of religious and older voters. why it matters, top republicans

the handling that of the nation's civil unrest and his photo op makes them much more worried about his chance of reelection than they were a week ago. at the same time, polling has turned from mixed to bleak. in texas, a new quinnipiac poll out yesterday showing the president in a statistical tie with joe biden, 44% to 43%. fox news out with a poll yesterday showing the president is down badly in wisconsin with president at, the 40 percent. and a statistical tie between the two in ohio, a must-win for the republicans. swing statea 20 20 with the president winning by three points in 20 16, another fox news poll showing vice president joe biden has a slight edge, 46% to 42%. that headline from axios.com,

and this headline from fox news -- the anti-trump targeting the president over coronavirus, and added by the lincoln project that was released yesterday. here's that spot. [video clip] early hours before d-day, general dwight d. eisenhower prepared an announcement that thankfully, he never had to make. >> our forces in the normandy area have failed to gain a foothold, and i have withdrawn the troops. >> great leaders prepare for every eventuality. they hope for the best, but they prepare for the worst. >> [inaudible] attaches to the attempt, it is mine alone. >> today, america faces new crises with new leaders. you did disband the white house pandemic office --

>> i didn't do it, i have a group of people. >> i don't take responsibility at all. time that america returned to a different kind of leadership? husbandorge conway, the of kellyanne conway, one of the individuals behind the lincoln project. joining us on the phone is gabby orr, who covers the white house and politics for politico. good sunday morning and thanks for being with us. guest: thanks for having me, steve. host: i want to begin with a story that you wrote a couple days ago, the president is now returning to his safe space to reignite his base. what is he doing? guest: turning to something that has worked for him in the past, which is focusing on the supporters that are cornerstones of his base. he is focusing on religious groups, which is why you have

seen the president duda so much outreach -- seen the president do so much outreach in the faith community this past week alone, went to st. john's church and held the bible up and used the photo opportunity to reconnect with his evangelical supporters. the following day, he went to a shrine of saint john paul ii to once again really reach out to religious voters and catholics who supported him in 2016. he is turning to a strategy that focuses on making sure people who supported him in 2016 will turn out again in 2020. it is no longer a campaign strategy that is primarily focused on growing his base to include suburban voters, to include a small percentage of minority voters, independents, it is really focused on those core trump supporters who have been with him since the first

and are that he ran in, the most likely to support him again in 2020. the strategy to try to guarantee not only an electoral college victory, but a popular vote victory? or is it to reach to 270? is to reach to 70. the trump campaign never said they are looking to get a popular vote victory this time around. their entire strategy liens on about a dozen battleground on about a dozen battleground states, and they are blanketing their way in states like arizona, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan -- those rust belt states are core to his chances of reelection, and that is where they are focusing their efforts right now. you really do see them zeroing in on white, working-class voters, religious conservatives,

the groups that are time and time again participating in the the republican party. that is the strategy he is embracing, at least right now, as the country deals with the civil unrest, as we continue to deal with the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, it seems as though he has retreated back strategy,base only because that is where he feels comfortable and it allows president trump to operate in a way that he can speak his mind. he can say whatever he wants because he knows it resonates with those types of supporters. orr, the story jonathan posted in the new york times last night getting a lot of attention on social media. some leaders in the republican party are considering a biden ormer president george w. bush how significant is this development?

-- former president george w. bush. how significant is this development? aest: it could have difference on how establishment public and voters -- establishment republican voters look at this president. there are some are public and voters that did not enthusiastically support president trump in 2016, but voted for him out of party loyalty. like there wasn't an alternative that they could support, and they are changing their minds this time around. you're seeing that with former president george bush saying they cannot support him, senator mitt romney, a couple of others in jonathan's article as well that were sort of on the fence or declined to say whether they will actually support the president -- speaker paul ryan, , jebr speaker john boehner bush, a candidate trump ran against in 2016 -- so a lot of these republicans, if they come

out and do more than civilly say they are not going to support him or are going to support joe biden, if they are actively campaigning against president trump and start trying to rally republican voters behind the democratic nominee, i do think that that could have a significant impact on his campaign. host: the president late last night after a day of demonstrations in our nation's capital and elsewhere in the country, a couple of tweets that he sent out after 10:00 p.m. eastern time. a much smaller crowd in d.c. than anticipated. the police have been doing a fantastic job. thank you. he went on to say that cnn and msnbc are doing everything possible to inflame the crowd. fortunately they have a small audience, when taunted in to 96% approval rating the republican party. where does this put the president. it goes back to what i was saying earlier.

in that series of tweets, he is talking about republican party thelty, law and order, and effect that secret service and law enforcement have had in repelling violent protests in d.c.. out toyou know, reaching those supporters who appreciate that message. he's reaching out to core trump base supporters who want a president to take decisive action right now, to respond forcefully to the civil unrest that is happening and to also show that he is very much still a popular figure within republican party politics. other pollshere are that show the president is not doing so well with members of his base. he has been slipping in his approval numbers with white evangelicals, which are the cornerstone of his political base. slipping with white catholics, with noncollege educated white women, and so

although his overall approval rating remains high with the republican party, there are definitely patterns and trends that we are seeing in other polls that indicate the trump campaign is in a bit of trouble right now, as we move to the election. host: finally, what is the week ahead like for the president? i talked to white house sources who say the president and vice president are still looking for opportunities to get out there and visit some of these cities that have dealt .ith protests the white house is trying to find a way for the president to possibly issue a course correction after last week, where he did get a bunch of flak from not only typical white house critics, but some of his own supporters for that stunt in front of st. john's episcopal

, so they are looking for opportunities to get the president back out on the trail and continue to try and issue a message that unifies the country. an what bit different th we heard from him last week. orr joining us on this sunday. her work available on politico.com. thank you for being with us. guest: thanks of -- thanks again. host: will you vote to reelect president trump? our phone lines are open. (202) 748-8000 if you say yes and (202) 748-8001 if you say no. lou is joining us from tampa, florida. good morning. caller: good morning, steve. thank you for everything you are doing with the coronavirus and covering what's going on and i'ming people informed, going to support the president in november. five months is an eternity in politics.

i want to mention something real quick. ago, 12 yearsars now, he said you are doing the lord's work and we all appreciate what you are doing, you know? host: tim russert was a great friend of this network over the years. we miss him, don't we? caller: we do, we do. i think the media is dead set against trump, and you know, if we want to go backwards in this country, which i pray that we won't, all right? biden is supporting nafta and cozying up to the chinese , making all kinds of deals with them and outsourcing jobs, and we don't need that. we don't need that. we need to stay the course and move forward in this country. i hope mr. trump addresses the nation. that is what we need to do. we need to keep moving forward and be positive. be positive.

host: thank you for the call. from jersey girl in pennsylvania on twitter, she says i do not know within the person who voted for him in 2016 who is planning on voting for him in 2020, including me. he has done nothing to expand his base or appeal to anyone who did not support him initially. if he loses, this will be a big part of the reason. piece from the associated press, white house and pentagon tensions nearing a breaking point, in part because of the statements made by former defense secretary not as critical of the president, and the announcement by the defense secretary mark esper that he does not see a need for military troops to quell any demonstrations or violence here in the u.s.. in an interview yesterday on fox news, this was my's president mike pence -- vice president mike pence. [video clip] come out and has said the president of the united states is divisive. he is a bad guy. where does that come from? have you spoken to general mattis about that? >> i do not know where it comes

from, but i can tell you he is wrong. what this president has done in recent days is what every american expects the president to do in times of crisis, and that is put the lives and property and liberty of every american first. president's monday called on every governor, use their authority to call out there national guard -- their national guard to bring law and order back to their streets. that is what the american people would have us do. ande bring law and order -- reports from around the country have been very in current thing -- very encouraging. we have seen violence declining across the country. it is a credit to our law enforcement community and the 32,000 national guard that have now been deployed across the country. and theat from fox news jesse waters program. this is a tweet from one of our viewers, saying i hate polling.

eful,ecause it is not uswfu but because it only gives a snapshot in one point in time. those who chose to stay home and not vote for either candidate can see the value of their vote. caller, you are going to vote for him? caller: i am going to vote for him. i did not vote for him the first time. i thought it was a joke, like a lot of people, but i like what he has done and he has done it in the face of the democrats and attacks by the media, and it has been a constant thing his whole presidency. i don't think most people could have handled that stress, and he has done so much good for the economy and for black people. so why are people blaming him for this? he wasn't the cop that killed somebody. he didn't have anything to do with it. they are trying to use this for political bullshit.

are stillegon, they shut down. there is no excuse for it. we had maybe 150 people die from the virus in the whole state and we are still supposed to be hiding under our beds. and people came out in oregon to start to protest that they couldn't make a living anymore, we got shutdown and said oh no, you can't demonstrate. your horrible people to be demonstrating. but that's because the virus is going to kill you. that was their excuse then. what is their excuse now? thousands of people in the street hurting police, hurting each other, black guys got killed by policemen last year, 19 white guys got killed by policemen last year, unarmed. i saw the video, it made me sick. when the first one came out, a lot of them were white because we are just as upset as the black people are. but i think it is the democrats that are trying to put stuff between us. i am not prejudiced, i don't

think i even know anybody who's prejudiced, but they are trying to divide us. they keep screaming that president trump is trying to divide us. they are the ones who are always in there trying to stir things up. sorry, i'm very upset. host: what's your final point? caller: i'm going to vote for him. i think we need him. if people vote for this feeble old crook that has been siphoning money off his physician for some 40 years now, if they want that to happen, i feel sorry for the whole country. thanks for the call. the front page story of the new york times. new york, los angeles, san francisco, washington, d.c. an estimated 140 cities, according had demonstrations on saturday. by and large, they were peaceful. robert is joining us from frostburg, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning, steve.

how are you doing this morning? host: i'm doing great. caller: great. i want to join the gentleman from florida for cop lamenting how you treat the people who call in to the journal -- for how you treat the people who call in to the journal, you always treat them with dignity and respect. i would not vote for president trump. i am a vietnam veteran, first of all, and what i heard from our history is that every american historyt who ever has a , republican or democrat, who ulysses s.in war, grant, who was a president who served in war, he said only a warrior knows the real meaning of peace. the line --e down

grant, teddy roosevelt, truth truman, kennedy, that iser, bush i, something they don't understand. i can see president trump having a --. there are a lot of people who believe in him, particularly black americans. are all socially programmed and trained in schools, churches, boy scouts to believe in america. thatty teaches a lot of us that just doesn't work, especially in the minority communities. there are a lot of white people who have never been subjected to these kinds of abuses, so they can't relate to it and they don't understand the heard of it. naturally they are going to theynue to believe what have been socially trained and talked about in churches, boy

believeand school to in. the reality for minority teaches us a different lesson. host: robert, have you felt the sting of racism in your own personal life? caller: oh yes. first of all, i am a vietnam veteran, and i was at the va hospital in prairie port, maryland. i reported this to the doctor on the ward and she disciplined the white workers who are entrusted to take care of these people with broken minds and broken bodies. as a result, one of them retaliated and kept me from getting into a ptsd program. my republican congressman at the time, from western maryland, looked into it. once he found that the thegations were true, person he hired to investigate

by aimself cursed out couple of administrators at prairie point. time in thehat v.a., i have been blackballed. some of the horrible things you have happen -- several the horrible things -- some of the horrible things that have happened to me, you would not believe. the police were called by each time it, and was a written report that the administrators were causing the retaliation. [inaudible] host: hey robert? [no audio] appreciated. the story that we went into it gabby orr is getting a lot of attention, front-page in the new

york times. some leaders are considering a biden vote in the republican party. jonathan martin writes the following -- far sooner than they expected, growing numbers of prominent republicans are debating how to go in revealing they will not even back his reelection or vote for joseph biden. they are feeling a fresh urgency because of the president's incendiary response to the protests of police brutality, his mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic, and according to people who spoke on the condition of anonymity, george w. bush will not support the reelection of mr. trump and jeb bush is not sure how he will vote. senator mitt romney of utah will not back the president, and cindy mccain is almost certain to support mr. biden, but is how public to be about it because one of her sons is eyeing a run for office.

the weight of republican names is different when his incumbent and senate leaders are on the line. former speakers like paul ryan and john boehner do not say how they will vote. a new spot from disgruntled republicans that was released on friday. here is that ad. [video clip] >> i can't breathe. i can't breathe. presidents the in the time of national emergency? hiding in his security bunker, watching his shows, afraid, alone. not a leader, not a president. --t scared, incompetent >> and a couple of days it is going to be down close to zero -- >> an embarrassment. you know that. those that have worked with him know that. >> former u.s. secretary jim mattis accusing president trump of being a threat to the constitution. >> our allies know that and our

enemies know that. everyone knows that. it is time for a competent president. let's elect one. defending democracy together is responsible for the content of this advertising. host: that new ad getting some attention as well. this is the headline from business insider. republican senator lisa murkowski, the 10th longest serving republican senator in that chamber, saying she calls general mattis' scathing essay about president trump "true and honest combo saying -- saying sheonest," is unsure if she will vote for him in november. caller: i worked on a movie with jon bon jovi in 2004, and he just build 77 houses for homeless veterans himself.

ie reason i say undecided, lost my house in the early 2000 after we opened the door to china. a lot of furniture manufacturing jobs went to china. i think george w. bush opened that door. they worked together to take away from the common working man in this country. ralph nader for 20 years tried dest to reduce support for capitalism, which is basically fascism. it goes back to rome. i voted one time and i probably will never vote again because they worked together against us. st is high time the american woke up, and the bible says itself, house divided will not stand. democrat and republican -- i was raised democrat, but i voted for republican that one time. i make movies, do commercial

photography down here in high point, and it is hurting because of this virus. upryone really needs to look the george kent story, that says 6 billion people need to die in eight languages. who decides that? the queen of england? host: in response to senator murkowski's comments this past week on capitol hill, the president with a couple of tweets, saying he would support anyone with a pulse in 2022 and adding recently, few people know where they will be two years from now, but i do. in the great state of alaska, which i love, campaigning against senator lisa murkowski. she voted against health care, justice kavanaugh, and much else. our next caller from cary, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you today? host: i'm doing well. how are you? well, thanks for asking. i voted for president trump

reluctantly and 2018 -- 2016, sorry. i was not sure of him. from new york. historically liberal, ok? worked with democrats his entire life. of the kind wes have seen. he seemed to get along with everybody, including the any mayornd schumer, that came along, because he is a businessman, ok? he needed to work with these people. i said all right, you know? behind his name and the alternative was unacceptable. i will crawl through broken inss to vote for him again 20 -- this year. that is really not an exaggeration, considering the choices. i love the way the media -- you are blowing this up with, look at who these people are.

they are all republicans. i will give them that. being a republican is a political choice. being a conservative is a whole other thing. that is an ideological choice. i've a conservative before i am a republican. i have to play in the republican party because that is the only choice i have. libertarians are -- well, libertarians are libertarians. , theyska, lisa murkowski are going to go blue. it is easy to play this sitting on the fence game. mitt romney, utah, red state. -- granted,orida florida could go either way, but with desantis as governor and the way things are going down there in the way he handled the coronavirus, red state -- means nothing. george bush in texas? red state. these are all elitist, establishment republicans. they are just as much against president trump as the leftist

democrats are, because he is not controlled by any of them. i'm happy with president trump. i really am. it is not the billionaire that earned his money building hotels and golf courses that we need to see the tax returns of, we need to see the tax returns of all the politicians who have been up there for 30 odd years that have become multimillionaires on a salary of less than $200,000 a year. that is my personal opinion, so -- host: mike, thanks for the call and thanks for joining us. from inside the new york times, trump wanted a pre-virus convention crowd or none at all. dilemmas facing the republicans, with the president threatening to move the convention from charlotte, north carolina, perhaps to florida or to texas. senators joining us -- a color from clearwater, florida. good morning. i'm a 24 year veteran, a

and it warrior, justifies reality to see people to say they are republicans continue to excuse this bowl. bull.s biggest graph dodging, bone spurs, hypocrite in the country. [inaudible] , thatt gentleman ,ntellectual man and his family what he did the other day in washington to peaceful -- .eaceful protesters all these generals, these honorable men who have served this country valiantly are coming out in support of

peace, ofof honor, of dignity, of respect. ecb's people daily just lose their moral center over the most lyingously perpetual scumbag in the country. i'm sorry, but this really, really hurts me. ,o see this guy running around doing what he is doing, dividing this country on a daily basis and to see people support him rubs me the wrong way. i hope he loses in a landslide. i travel to europe all the time -- i am supposed to be in italy right now. they cannot stand this guy. he loves putin, he loves desperate slight kim jong-un --

kim jong-un. where are the weapons of mass destruction now? where are they? this is a guy who does everything he says that president obama was. host: leonard from clearwater, florida. thanks for the call. is a clown.- trump we do not need a clown is our president. cnn.com, the electoral map is tilting badly against president trump right now amid the protests following the police killing of george floyd and the fight against coronavirus, something important has been overlooked -- president trump is now decided underdog to reach the 270 electoral votes needed to win in the second term this fall. cnn.com. the trump campaign out with a new web ad, about 3.5 minutes. here is a portion. [video clip] >> i stand before you as a friend and ally, to every

american seeking justice and peace. no one is more upset than fellow law enforcement officers. by the small handful that failed ath tode by their o serve and protect. we support the overwhelming majority of luis officers, who are incredible in every way and devoted public servants. we must all work together as a society to expand opportunity and to create a future of greater dignity and promise for all of our people. every citizen in every community has the right to be safe in their workplace, safe in their homes, and safe on our city streets. working towards a more just society, but that means building up, not tearing down. joining hands, not hurling fists.

standing in solidarity, not surrendering to hostility. this is the sacred right of all americans that i am totally determined to defend and will defend. ♪ host: that web video from the trump campaign, and this is from try to call i would in today, but the caller from north carolina said it perfectly. yes, i will vote for president trump again. charles from fort collins, colorado. good morning. that, thest watching hypocrisy, you read his tweets and you look at that, and you are like huh? he is calling these people

terrorists and then all of a sudden it is like hey, we are all going to unite in lafayette square to go to church to hold an upside down bible? this is like jekyll and hyde crazy. what i really want to say, and this is maybe -- i hear everybody with their different opinions about this, but what i see, this nation has a systemic problem. is just the reaction to a broken system. to all the people out there who love trump or hate biden, love widen, whatever, i would say house hrd go read house bill 1. is not behindcian house bill one, why aren't they? i watched the hearings on c-span -- thank you for your wonderful

channel, and that cuts through the home media thing. that would create a system that is not broken, based off greed and money. it would drain the swamp. you just need to read it. but people do not read and just believe ads like unite and stuff , and then they think trump is , andreatest president ever i look at them and think wow. host: thank you for the call from fort collins, colorado. this quote "america is headed to become socialist, progressive, liberal, libertarian, conserving with a sprinkling of green and peta voters." approval ratings, as well as elections from 2016, key battleground states, and

information from states like arizona, michigan, wisconsin, and north carolina. jeff greenfield at politico.com has this -- is the republican senate in jeopardy? it is a question as obvious as it is critical. how will this affect the 2020 race for the white house? in washington, there are other implications that could matter as much as the direction of national policy, chief among them the u.s. senate. in many ways, this is a question equal in importance to the outcome of the presidential race. just picture trump without a gop rubberstamp his supreme court picks or a president biden forced to fight mitch mcconnell for every inch of ground? the awful news for the republican senate candidates is another historical trend. the increasing link between votes cast for a presidential contender and votes cast for senators, which makes it harder to create a distance from a

unpopular incumbent. back to your phone calls, paul, good morning. will you vote to reelect the president? caller: yes, i would. i do not care if it is republicans or democrats, but the stop and think -- politicians that have been up there for 30, 40 years are saying how bad trump is, they are the ones who got us in the predicament we are in. i do not care if they are republicans or democrats. i think 90% of them are all scumbags. host: paul, thanks for the call. our caller from fort wayne, indiana. good morning and welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. i am enjoying the conversation this morning and enjoying the fact that i finally get to say something. all of the people, i give lots of respect for europeans opinions. my question is, can we talk opinions?-- for your

my question is, can we talk about god? mike pence was our governor and he was no good then. the bible was used by the kkk to target people. go back and do your history, white people. pence is ave god -- liar, trump is a liar. if pence was a true christ -saving christian, he would say, we do not go along with evil. trump tried to held hostage in ukraine, he tried to do the same thing in michigan, if they do not do what he wants to do. he tried to do the same thing in new york. we are not going to let the terrorists rule this country. he is not a president of the united hates, he is a resident of the white house. this country was founded on god. [inaudible] the got of this world, satan, who has [inaudible]

weh, whose son died for us. christians do not back of a tyrant, a belay, a person who is an anti-christian lover. this man is not about god and he has shown that he is not about god, because god despises a liar. [inaudible] people because they don't go along with him. whether they tell the truth, you're out the door. every man has a right to work, and these people have been public workers for the longest. you better go back and look at pence, because pence might be kissing his boots and licking his boots and kissing his but right now, but pence wants his job. anyone who runs behind you is not your friend. for the call.u

back to this story -- vote for trump. these republican leaders are not on the bandwagon, the headline from the new york times. more reporting from jonathan martin. he says representative francis rooney of florida has donated millions of dollars to republican candidates over the years, served as president bush's ambassador to the vatican, and has not voted for a democrat in decades. he is considering supporting mr. biden because mr. trump's "driving us all crazy," and his handling of the virus has led to a death toll that did not need to happen. he is not seeking reelection, so he does not need to worry about his future electoral prospects. from losn the phone angeles. will you vote to reelect the president? i sure will. i sure will. trump is a democrat at heart. he has been a democrat for years. he knows their playbook. he knows what they are supposed

to be about. he could not run as a democrat because it was hillary's turn, remember? he was smart. he ran as a republican. [inaudible] the party of the worker. took a $1200 check from donald trump the democrats to even talk about giving us stimulus. biden didn't give us a stimulus check during the last crash of 2008 and 2009. obama did not -- biden did not give us a check, even with obama's best thinking. what did he do for the black community, even with obama's best thinking? host: the former vice president yesterday from delaware to liberate remarks virtually to the texas democratic party convention. he talked about the death of george floyd and the campaign. [video clip] >> once again, the words "i

can't breathe" in our ears as we watch the brutal, horrifying killing of george floyd. take a hard look at the uncomfortable truths. it is time for us to face a deep, open wound of systemic racism in the nation. nothing about this is going to be easy or comfortable. if we simply allow this wound to scab over once more without treating the underlying injury, we will never truly heal. since the beginning, the very soul of this nation is at stake. that is why i am running for president and why i stand with every democrat behind our mission to defeat donald trump and restore real leadership to the white house. we have to do more than just tot donald trump, we have keep the house of representatives and win over the united states senate. we have to flip the texas house. we have to deliver meaningful change for people who are hurting all across this nation. is an important battleground state for our

campaign in 2020. i think we have a real chance to turn the state blue because of all the work you have done. we are building a diverse coalition up and down the belt in the fall. host: that's from the biden campaign, and his remarks delivered yesterday to the state democratic convention in texas. a good number of people saying hell yes, i am voting for trump again. barbara, i never thought i would see the u.s. governed by a dictator in my lifetime. fox's putin -- trump's putin's puppet and fox's the machine that keeps his followers loyal. from in theler bronx, new york. will you vote for the president in the fall? caller: no, let me explain why. the man has been incompetent, he is narcissistic, he has divided this country. he has been so divisive.

he has tried to shred the constitution. he has respect for no one but himself. he has tried to prevent health care for people and people need health care, and especially with this pandemic. his handling of the pandemic has , becauseible, brutal yes, people would have died and people would have got infected, but we would not have had the numbers. but he couldn't listen. he wanted to wish it away. he wants to cut social security and medicare. i am a senior citizen. i worked over 40 years of the health care professional. i earned that money. i worked for that money. , awants to cut food stamps large majority of people on food stamps are poor white people. people have the conclusion that it is blacks and minorities. what has he done for the workers? he was going to bring back factory jobs and manufacturers and all the rest of that.

wall street is working well. take corporations are working well. he gave our tax cuts to all those people and hurt the little man, the working class. no. and to hold up the bible in front of that historic church? the man has never opened the bible. host: nora, we will leave it there. steve payne at going -- echoing your sentiment on social media. why would anyone want to vote for general bone spurs? he is a sociopath so no, no, no, no and no. people were unconsciously influenced by his mental illness. this headline, the trump campaign looks at the electoral map and does not like what it sees. the trump campaign is facing the bleakest outlook for the reelection so far, with his plungingumbers

in public and private surveys and his campaign starting to worry about his standing in states like ohio and iowa, states he carried by a wide margin. the trump campaign out with this added over the next couple of days. [video clip] ad-second ad, -- is titled america come back. it is effective at mitigating the spur of the virus, which has affected more than one million people and killed more than 67 thousand people in the u.s., according to data compiled by johns hopkins university. onrly 40,000 people arrived flights from china after two months of trump imposing the restrictions. back to your phone calls. kevin from new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you for taking my call.

i'm going to vote for trump. the only thing i'm going to miss if he doesn't win is his bragging. he always says my administration -- i wish he would say our administration all the time, instead of i did this, i did that, he should say we did this, we did that. bring his fellow republicans into it. bragging turns a lot of people off. the other thing is a mild criticism -- c-span brings up the times and the washington post a lot of times, and a lot of these polls. don't forget in 2016, these polls were all wrong and there's a lot of people that because of acting like a jerk sometimes, people are afraid to say yes, i am going to vote for him.

they lie on these polls, you know? i think it is going to be a close race. most of your polls today from states that are not going to vote for him, people that are anti-trump, i just don't see him losing because what's the alternative? can i add another thing? host: sure. caller: this black lives matter -- one thing i would recommend for all the schools in the country, high schools in the country, to mandate the reading folk" byouls of black w.e.b. dubois, because everyone thought after slavery was ended that was the end. the 30, 40 years after slavery and was maybe the toughest time of all for most black people -- wasit was maybe -- ended maybe the toughest time of all for most black people.

i would recommend a book like that to get more understanding among the white people in the country. host: the new york times has two photographs that are worth your attention on this sunday morning. 1960 five, dr. martin luther king kneeling as part of a civil rights protest and more thently colin kaepernick, quarterback for the san francisco 49ers, as he knelt ring the national anthem. those side-by-side photographs streets.rest in the we look at the demonstrations that took place over the weekend in washington and elsewhere in the country -- the final half hour, we will be talking about the black lives matter marches and protests around the country, and we want to ask you the question, whether or not you think it will result in actual change in this country. that's coming up at 9:30 eastern time. --hope you turn in for that tune in for that part of the program. from stanford,

connecticut. will you vote for president trump in the fall? caller: no, no. i don't understand how anyone can. i think trouble and of getting 22% of the vote. hillary got 53%, 54%, and it was the people who said what do you have to lose? they figured out what they had to lose, so that is another 5%. how big of a deficit is it? didmight remember that they bankrupt three casinos, four casinos. he has gone through bankruptcy himself how many times, and people say what the heck, let's give him a chance. it is going to be 22%. people are bagging him -- could you imagine people screaming out four more years? that would be insane. the trump backers are dumb enough for trump, and that is what he is relying on. people who are not too bright. hillary was right. she should not have said deplorables, she should have said trump voters.

these people are not the sharpest tools in the shed. look at trump. what was that with the bible? that was his craziness. look at this guy. how would you ever want to have this guy for president another week? he has been impeach. are you going to vote for an impeached president who lies about everything? he can't build a wall, he has all these people locked up in these prison camps down in texas, and they are paying $700 a day for each one of those still -- every day, yeah, he is going to get 22% of the vote and if you are drum enough -- dumb enough for trump, stick with him. host: our next caller from athens, georgia. good morning. you,r: good morning, thank steve. i want to thank c-span in general and to the callers. i get upset with you guys, but you know what? i am thankful that you guys are

opening up your eyes and becoming politically astute. i'm leaning towards president donald j. trump. i have to give credence to the callers who called in from the keys and what the caller from l.a., ricky said. ricky is absolutely correct. trump was a democratic supporter for 30 years, and he said if he would run for president, he would run as a republican because they are dumb enough to vote for him. with that mentality, he used the democratic tactics against them and you have to give the man credit. he has been very successful against all the adversity that has been thrown at him. he is definitely right. you need to read "the sulfur black folk," because the deal abraham lincoln had for these newly freed slaves was ready to go into effect with the

freedmen's bureau, but it died with him. the south, the true victor of the civil war, that is why we have had so much intolerance for the descendents of slaves. thank you guys so much. host: thank you for the call. i hope you are outside on this beautiful sunday morning. caller: my family is asleep and i get fired up, because we love c-span and we love our citizenship. no place on the planet are you going to have the opportunity to do what you can do here in the united states. trump might not be perfect, but he is a reflection of what we as the united states have become. host: thank you very much for the call. a reference to joe mccutchen, who lost his good friend, oscar poole, who is also a good friend of the network. we send out our

thanks to joe mccutchen and his family and oscar poole and his family. martin luther king, kneeling with others in 1965. lisa has this point -- martin luther king was not disrespecting the flag. black lives matter has not done a good job of getting their message across. their tactics make most people turn a deaf ear. sherry from mount vernon, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. host: you are on the air. caller: i want to say, no way would i vote for him. he's awful. he is the most corrupt president and he's justad, awful. anybody, heespect m unlikerespect anything

one of the republicans -- anything, unlike one of the republican people who wrote a book. tom, you are next, jacksonville, north carolina. what are you going to do in november? who are you going to vote for? caller: i am going to vote for donald trump. i watched the kavanaugh hearings, and it seems like every democrat is about killing babies. i am a right to lifee sincer 1972, i will be a right to life until i die. we have to save these babies from the knife. host: caller: it always intrigues me with men call about democrats are all baby killers. starts having babies, he needs to keep his opinion to himself, i would say. on your question of the day, i

would not vote for donald trump if you was running against a baboon, a fish, or a rock. duringy is so ham-handed the coronavirus, many, many thousands of people died that did not have to die because of his ham-handedness. now he is coming out with the protesters, always calling the rioters -- they are not rioters, they are protesting, which is our right. our right to dissent, our right to peacefully protest. he cannot take that away, as much as he would like to. that little photo op he did, striding over there all by himself with the flank of black suits behind him? what a child. steve, mark my words. francis rooney might say one tweet or something about him, but he never dogs the men out like you dogs gretchen whitmer, not murkowski -- he is going to get michigan, a must-have state for him, and he

should have thought about that before he started dogging out our governor that has a 70% approval rating in michigan. host: thanks for the call in flint. from miamisburg, ohio. who are you going to vote for? caller: i am going to vote for president trump, and i think most of the guys calling in are just jealous of him, because he said the right thing. he knows exactly what to say. and don't forget that a lot of the democrats, they want their abortions. about all i have to say. thank you very much. host: rachel, thank you from miamisburg, ohio. it is the top of the hour, 8:00 in washington, d.c. "washington journal" continues in just a moment. sean smoot will be joining us, a member of the president obama's

task force on 21st century policing to discuss policing in the wake of george floyd's death. ther, casey mulligan of trump administration joining us from chicago to discuss the economic and human impact duehutting down the economy to the covid-19 pandemic. we are back in a moment. >> monday on the communicators. >> we are at the very beginning of building our smart city. we were fortunate very early on to convert our old telephone booth infrastructure into wi-fi kiosks. they are strategically located across the city of new york. that provides a means of communicating that sets out a

predicate for what can be done with sensor technology and our lighting system. there is so much that can be done from that platform. >> new york congresswoman yvette clarke monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span two. >> this week, the house and senate will hold hearings on the federal response to the coronavirus and law enforcement accountability. tuesday at 2:30 p.m., secretary of labor eugene scalia testifies before the senate finance committee on the cares act and the role of unemployment insurance during the pandemic. on wednesday live on c-span, the house judiciary committee hearing on policing practices and law enforcement accountability. c-span3, secretary of the treasury steven mnuchin testifies before the senate small business committee on the implementation of title i of the

cares act. watch this week live tuesday and wednesday on c-span and c-span3, online at c-span.org or on the free c-span radio app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from alexandria, virginia, is sean smoot, former member of the president's task force on 21st century policing during the obama administration. thank you for being with us on this sunday. guest: thank you. host: this headline from the washington post, the 12 day of demonstrations, marches, and protests, thousands from washington, d.c., vowing to be heard. regarding the death of george floyd, what will change in the way police operate? some: i think there is potential for wide-ranging

ofnge, not only in terms force and how policing is conducted generally, but theicularly in response to many protests that have occurred and the way law enforcement response to those as well. say i watched the video of mr. floyd's death, and it caused major distress and paying. i have been involved in police reform for the last seven years and helping departments around the country implement 21st century policing recommendations, best practices, and so forth. work weded me how much still need to do. i think one of the immediate seents we have already

many jurisdictions and states eliminating the use of choke holds or other maneuvers that could be used to block blood flow or air to a person. that is something that was recommended by our task force in 2015. it has been implemented in my state of illinois. outlawing thew use of chokehold maneuvers in 2015. it is not something departments should be using. it is not something they should be training. that is an important but small part of the overall picture. ist: george floyd's brother going to be testifying before the house judiciary committee on wednesday. we will be covering that hearing, looking at police practices.

what changes do you think could come from washington if any? know, washington can do a lot in terms of messaging and leadership and providing has to, but real change happen at a state and local level. 18,000 police departments in the u.s., probably 85% of them have 30 or fewer officers. is no real -- there are no federal or national policing standards per se. there are a number of best es that are developing and have been developed in the field. we hope those will proliferate and continue to be adopted by departments. it is a heavy lift to do that.

i look forward to mr. floyd's testimony. i expect to hear a lot of pain. i will share that pain. expect a number of requests for change, all of which should be considered. hearing will be live on the c-span networks. a lot of moments with police officers around the country over the last 12 days since the brutal death of george floyd. here is one police officer discussing how one woman feels about her son. [video clip] to empty the him garbage because they are searching the buildings with guns drawn. i had to keep him home. he had to get therapy. give you myg to

cell phone number. as soon as things calm down, i want you to call me. host: what do you think of that moment? guest: i was not able to hear the last part of the audio. i heard the woman, but i cannot make out what the gentleman was saying. host: he said give me a call, i want to talk to you more about this. guest: that is a good response. i hope she takes him up on it and has the opportunity to be heard. whether people feel like it is valid or not, the perception of the folks that police officers serve and protect is important. their perception is their reality. clearly what i heard in the ofan's statement was because

some type of policing action, something, that her son was traumatized. think that does happen. know that it is intended. i don't believe that it is intended. people are trying to respond to it. host: your reaction to the campaign zero and eight can't limitations they say need to be put in place immediately, including banning chokehold and asking communities divest fromfrom -- police and end the prison

system in this country. do you have any thoughts? with theam familiar group that developed that. the task force along with some of her colleagues. host: let's get to your phone calls. thomas is joining us from houston, texas. caller: good morning, america. all of you should have a revolver with six shots in it. back in the day, we had traffic cops and detectives and other people. it seems like most of these killings started when somebody stopped a traffic cop. write then a ticket and let them go. training,funding and a friend of mine told me some of the police departments are being

trained in israel. is that true? grandson the ammo, my is a sheriff in houston. bullets should be banned by everyone. we are going to be ok. call down. host: thank you for the call from houston. sean smoot is joining us from alexandria, virginia. your response? guest: i'm not aware of any police training that is being done in israel. it is entirely possible there is some specialized units in law enforcement and the secret service and fbi and so on. i'm sure in regard to international terrorism training, we do that jointly with a lot of countries.

i cannot say. i think the caller made the statement that everyone should carry a sick shot revolver. that that would actually be a best practice. for law enforcement, there are over 300 million firearms in public today. i would suggest a minority of them are actually revolvers or six shots. we want our officers to be able to protect us, and in order to do that, they need to have the proper equipment. i heard something about armor piercing bullets. departmentse of that specifically utilize those. mean bullets that are actually

designated as armor piercing. there are a lot of high-powered rifles. bey are not designed to armor piercing. pierce armorwill and go through cars and that kind of thing. we have a phone line set aside if you are in law enforcement. looking at some of the statistics from minneapolis. used 2012, police have neck restraint on 428 individuals. 65% were black. is at 19%.opulation we are talking to sean smoot on 21st century policing. which did what? with --e came out

president obama appointed us to this task force. he charged us with coming up with ways that policing could be better integrated with community values and charged us with coming up with practical recommendations for how police and communities could work timeher while at the same continuing to reduce crime. formed in the was shadow of michael brown and ferguson and a number of other incidents that occurred in 2014 and earlier. as a result of that, we came up with a task force report. i have a copy here i would be happy to show you. report, wetask force

for reform framework and a national framework and recommendations that could be implement it on a local level. the report starts with building trust and legitimacy. first pillar. final pillar is officer safety and wellness, which is equally important. between witht in regard to policy and procedure and oversight and technology and so on. a very comprehensive document, and there are recommendations that address virtually everything we are

talking about today. host: our guest is sean smoot, the legal director for the illinois police benevolent and protective association. calling from boston, good morning. years: for the last few -- law enforcement agencies -- [indiscernible] wass wondering whether that a tactic of police. your guest is uncomfortable answering that question. i will hang up. host: it was kind of hard to hear, but he again brought up the issue of police training in israel. did you want to reply to that? guest: all i can say is what i said before. i am not aware of any police agency that i have worked with that sends officers to israel

for training. do.nnot say that none host: doug from fairfax. guest: there may be some training. i'm not aware of it. host: our guest is joining us vi a zoom. we apologize for some of the audio breakups. we will go to doug. caller: good morning. i have a couple of statements. in the 1960's and 1970's, i can remember the riots going on. came out afterrt that in 1868. poverty and housing and military response with the finding that there are always two sides to every story. some that like to take the authority away in my opinion.

1980's, the chief of police in my hometown, i told him to take his bags off, and we could sell them. we did that. here in south dakota, we have a population of 8.7% indian. south dakota, one of the least populated states jailed the most people per capita, 3%. black people at four times the rate of white and indian people. dakota,county south most indian population, 50% unemployment. i guess that is my comments on police. there are a lot of good ones, but there are a lot of bad ones. every nationality has good and bad. we just hope most of them are good. host: sean smoot, let me take

his point and directed in terms of police chiefs as they direct their departments based on what we saw in minnesota and elsewhere in the country, what should the message be to the men and women who serve in law enforcement? guest: i'm sorry, we are having some audio issues. you said based on where? host: what should police chiefs tell those who serve in uniform? we would hope that they have built a culture in their departments that promotes equity, promotes protecting everyone and everyone's dignity ,egardless of their background class, strata, or race. serve thosere to folks and protect those folks. they tell them and provide for them care.

of the big issues that we are going to see as a .esult of this some audio issues. let me direct your attention to the washington post. i can breathe, the comments by george floyd as he was desperately trying to breathe just before he died. a long list of other people, whether they are at walmart, in stop,, at a traffic already arrested, all of them killed at the hands of police. let's go to greenville, north carolina. caller: good morning. as far as the police departments, the fraternal order of police unions, as long as they are running the show, we are going to have these problems because they have too much.

they favor law enforcement to there are that officers on the force that have had 10, 15, 20 writeups, and they are still on the force. real police force, that would not happen. -- t: host: joyce, good morning. caller: good morning. i cannot understand how people say they want to get rid of the police or defund the police. if we did not have police, could you imagine what a chaotic situation everything would become? just like in indianapolis, they backed off. no police. they drove off and let them have it. they just gave the middle finger to the good law-abiding citizens that had businesses, and i just think it is so disgraceful that

they are holding these demonstrations and letting these riots continue because i'm all for demonstrations. i am all for that. if i was out there demonstrating and i saw what was happening, i would leave so fast i just cannot understand why because one cop did this to another man. when i saw that on video, i cried and cried. i could not believe what i was seeing, just like everybody else. we cannot go and destroy all of our city because of what one cop did. the other cops were rookies. as far as i know, that one cop, that was the third shift he had worked. he just became a police officer. for the call.u

sean smoot, your comment? i appreciate the question. she touched on a number of things. of chanting for defunding the police. i think really what people are talking about and something that movement police reform and in my experience, we have been encouraging departments to adopt a differential response which would incorporate things like, if you ask police officers, they will tell you they are asked to do too much. one of the things we talk about is trying to integrate community-based services and have a community-based provider go out and respond in a situation where there is a call for somebody that had a mental health issue.

the first call should not be to the police for something like that. protests, ito the think she makes some interesting points. she has voiced what a lot of people feel. there needs to be a distinction because lawful protests are perfectly fine. the police when it comes to lawful protests, their role should be to protect the protesters and protect their right to carry on protests. when people start committing crimes like property damage and theft and violence crime against different.e, that is the police response to that is different. one of the things we talked about in the task force report was a response to mass demonstrations.

what i am seeing around the country and a lot of places, that recommendation has not been adopted. was having ad for continuum of managed tactical events. if the first time a protest crowd sees police officers they gear,aring full tactical what some folks would characterize as riot gear, and they are entering into the crowd, that is a recipe for disaster, and we have seen it over and over again going back 50 years. that is not the right response. when people start damaging property and people are looting stores, the police response is different. they are going to arrest criminals. i think the woman was absolutely

correct. if you are involved in a peaceful protest and you see unlawful behavior, get out of there. smoot, a guest is sean member of former president what hetask force on first century policing. bloomberg is taking a look at the cost of policing over the past four decades. the cost of policing in the u.s. 42 $.3ost tripled from trillion in 1977 to nearly $115 from $42.3 billion in 1977 to nearly $115 billion. no external solution would make a difference. there should be no probation, no second chance. one documented incident, and that cop should be removed, no leniency.

marcia is joining us from new jersey. good morning. are you with us? go ahead. caller: i feel when i saw so many young people protesting that we can have a change in our country. police forces, when they hire people to do this job, they should test them and screen them for mental and physical health and anger management. the unions and the police department, they have to look at complaints against some of the officers. floyd was a george very bad outcome.

we should pass laws for criminal justice and police reform. this should never happen again. my question is, how do we get police reform? thank you. sean smoot, how do you answer marcia's question? guest: i assume that question is being directed to me. i did not hear a prompt, steve. is way we get it is it happening now. it has been happening for five years. the pace slowed significantly about three and a half years ago , but there are a lot of departments doing a lot of great things. if you look at camden, new jersey. they have turned that agency around. that reform process started 10 years ago.

it is a model department. if you look at the way they are dealing with the current mosttion, i would say folks would say they are doing a really good job. there are a number of departments that have started to implement the task force recommendations. i think the key is it is a cultural change. unions need to play a role in it. popular to lay a lot of blame on the unions. they have some responsibility. they are also responsible for improving the profession a great deal over the years. caliber andng the enhancing the caliber and quality of applicants and so on. there is some shared

responsibility that can definitely take place. day, if a of the department is based on and has ingrained in its culture procedural justice at its core and is working towards building legitimacy and trust with the community and is implementing these things, reform will happen, but it has to happen on the ground and on a city to city basis. host: your reaction to the reporting of maggie hamerman in , saying the times unions have an outsized influence in any reforms since ferguson, missouri, over the last five years. that: i have not read article. i'm used to being on central time. this is quite early in the morning for me.

i have heard that argument made before. specific to missouri, but certainly this argument has been raised. i have seen it raised three or four times in the last 24 hours in other mediums. i think as leaders, whether your leadership comes from your position as the chief of police or as a commander in the police department or because you were elected by the rank-and-file members of that department, leaders need to lead in these situations. where there are problems, we need to address them. i think if that does not happen internally, then it will be done ultimately, if you are not at the table, you are on the menu.

if everybody is not on board with improving the profession and relationship between police and the communities they serve, the folks who are not involved in that will likely not come out very well in the end. ont: you can follow her twitter. she has tweeted that new york times story on the front page on the role of unions in police departments. maryland. to tom from sorry about that. caller: good morning. how are you today? host: we are good. thank you. caller: i know this is probably going to upset a lot of people. this is not my intention. i'm trying to look at this unbiasedly. i think the culture itself needs to look at itself in the mirror. gang violenceote

and being part of a gang and throwing gang signs and intimidating, and it is in all cultures. the italians did it as far as the mafia goes. what i'm getting at with that groundwork being late, when you are an officer and running into a community that is well-known for extreme gun violence and things like that, and they have in with caution and they know a large majority of gang firearms andacking are willing to use them at any point in time, they need to take a step back and breathe. we all do. this is the part where it is becoming absurd and ridiculous. no law enforcement, what happens in that community when somebody kill somebody? do they just do vigilante work? do we not have justice and law?

it is a very complicated and delicate situation, by all means. we all need to look at ourselves. racism exists in every culture and facet. it does not matter. in my opinion, it has never been about race, color, or religion. it has been about economics. host: thank you for the call. sean smoot, any comment? i think he hit on a couple of things that i would like to comment on. crime is definitely linked to economics. there are disparate impact in our society, whether it is economic, educational opportunities. on from the chicago area originally. there have been places in the city of chicago, neighborhoods where there is not a grocery

store. that is a significant disparity. people who do not understand person to the depth of the problem. and what that problem creates. you know who does see it, police officers. our guest is sean smoot joining us from alexandria, virginia. i apologize. go ahead. guest: i was going to say i divesting fromof policing is flawed. if you had something that was broken, you would want to fix it. you would be investing in it. you would not be throwing it away. the fact of the matter is we know police presence, and there is research to back this up, the presence of police has an impact

on crime and preventing crime. the idea that we would not have police at all does not seem to be tenable, certainly not in our society. last week, we carried live the memorial tribute to george floyd in minneapolis. there was another service yesterday in north carolina. his final burial will be in houston, texas. what the sheriff told the congregation. [video clip] >> i dreamed about being a law enforcement officer ever since i was 10 years old. that dream is turning into a nightmare. realized that if i deny all the wrong that law enforcement is doing today, i am denying the color of my skin.

i will not do that. i am a black man. then law enforcement. thing people have as a black officer, when our community looks at us, they are looking in different directions. they say ok. they don't trust us because we are officers. the fear is real in the black community. they don't trust the black officers because we are officers. then they question our blackness. they ask us, how can you be part of something with all of this going on? are you blind? can you see what is going on> ? i'm going to keep it real. --there was for pola

four brothers that through a police officer on the ground and one of them put their knee in videock and killed him on while the other three stood , there would have been a national manhunt for all four of them. [applause] there would have been a national manhunt for all four of them, and they would have been arrested and charged with murder immediately. that was the sheriff at eight tribute to george floyd

yesterday in north carolina. joining us from illinois, good morning. moved from, i chicago to chatsworth in 2008. the shootings in chicago, something has to happen with that. the drug dealing in chicago, something has to happen with that. other lot is naked in the town, inglewood. there has to be more work projects. leaders like jesse jackson anior's son that owned budweiser and liquor sell alling company the liquor stores on each corner. we give these aldermen in

raises, but big they don't put any jobs in the black communities. it is sad. there were supposed to be condos built where i bought my house on the west side of chicago. unions, was not done by they did not do it. they just left the property vacant. host: thank you for the call. sean smoot, he gets to the systemic issues facing the communities inn this country, the economic disparity. guest: that is what we were just talking about. economica lot of disparity. i know the areas he is talking about personally. i have been to them. i have done work in them.

there is not economic opportunity. kids thatruggle for were raised there to get educational opportunities. said, one of the neighborhoods he mentioned is one of the places we would refer to as a food desert. not even an opportunity to have the basic human need of food. thank you. we are getting feedback issues. i want to get your reaction to what happened this past monday at lafayette park as there were peaceful demonstrations going on. then you had the park service dispersed the crowd. you can see what it looked like. the white house said it was not tear gas. what psychological impact did this have on the country? guest: i think it was extremely

disturbing. it was frankly not kidding. also for the law enforcement officers. police do not want to be used as props. that is what they were used for in that situation. need to put them or the protesters in that type of ofger or under that kind stress. i think it was an appalling situation. host: the white house went to great lengths to say it was not tear gas. my question, does it really matter? guest: i don't think it does. if it was tear gas, some other chemical, just smoke, the entire thing should not have happened. it was unnecessary. it put officers in danger. it puts citizens in danger.

police officers do not want to be used as props. that is what occurred in that instance. int: we will go to kathleen temple hill, maryland. caller: good morning. i have been a contributor to the police benevolent society in the past, and i will continue to do that. , a lot also like to say of women that are police officers are not trained very well. a lot of these police officers don't have the proper training. some of them get flustered, or they are scared when it comes down to handling someone that is and, youof-control, know, they don't have the proper training. they use force that is not proper.

what can we do to reform the and make sureg our police officers, men and can adopt and abroad these situations from the streets and abroad. host: thank you. guest: great opportunity for investment in police. but alsoin training new technologies. 10 years ago, nobody knew what a body camera was. now a lot of departments are using them. i think they should be used by everyone. cameras in the squad cars. there should be a record in interview rooms. crucial.is

training is usually the first thing to get cut when budgets counties in cities and and states. it is usually the last thing to be replaced in a budget. there is a lot of great training out there. there is a lot of great training available on use of force and de-escalation that incorporates things like less than lethal. apologize for the breakup in the conversation. virginia,ing us from former member of president obama's first century policing task force. governor cuomo accelerating the reopening plans as new york's covid virus deaths dropped to a record low. the news conference week had

yesterday in albany. us,y mulligan will join advisor to president trump. cuomo.ny, governor >[video clip] >> you look at the numbers on new york city, they have dropped dramatically. were at a high of positive testing at 57%. they are now down to 2%. about a to talk turnaround, this is going to go into the history books. hit,ork was the hardest and in 98 days, we have gotten to a much different place. there is no state in the united states that has gone from where we were to where we are. no state in the u.s. has gone from where we were to where we are.

hard-pressed to find a country that went from where we were to where we are. hospitalizations went from 12,000 down to 1500. phase one guidelines starts monday. it is construction, manufacturing, curbside pickup. pickupe pickup, in-store where curbside is not practical. they are prearranged. , constructioning and manufacturing, masks must be worn. the employer must provide masks. masks sending one million ofthe mta, 25,000 gallons hand sanitizer made in the state of new york. bottles for the mta

reopening. used to complain about how dirty they were. they are not disinfected for the first time. my house does not have disinfected bathrooms, but the subway cars are disinfected. as office workers go back to work, we are allowing commercial buildings to take the temperature of everyone who enters the building. i don't want anyone to take my temperature. that is going to be a problem because we are giving commercial take the the right to temperature of everyone who walks into a building. .t is not just your health it is the people you could infect. when you go back to work, it does not mean we are going to go back to the way we were. there is no going back in life. it is about going forward and

finding the new normal with new behavior and patterns in the workplace. we need everyone to cooperate with that. >> monday on the communicators. the very beginning of building our smart city. we were fortunate early on to convert our old telephone booth infrastructure into wi-fi kiosks. they are strategically located across the city of new york. that provides a means of that sets out a predicate for what can be done with sensor technology, how we can regulate our lighting system. there is so much that can be done from that platform alone. onyvette clarke monday night

the communicators on c-span2. this week, the house and senate will hold hearings on the federal response to coronavirus. c-span,live on secretary of labor eugene scalia testifies before the senate finance to midi on the role of unemployment insurance. c-span, the house judiciary committee hearing on policing practices. at 10:00 eastern on c-span3, secretary of the treasury steven mnuchin testifies before the senate small business committee. watch this week live tuesday and wednesday on c-span and c-span3, online at c-span.org, or on the free c-span radio app. >> "washington journal" continues. us from chicago is

casey mulligan, former advisor to president trump. he is the author of the book you are hired, untold successes of a populist president. writes, we, he estimate that an unrestricted pandemic infecting 60% of the u.s. population with a felt tell the rate below 1% would result in 1.4 million deaths with a total value of lost lives of $1 trillion. -- about six to dollars. against this we estimate a cost approaching $7 trillion per year. the pandemic has exposed the weakness of central planning. take the federal government regulatory activity, which significant new and

regulatory actions. regulators are required to explain to the public the costs and benefits. especially costly during a pandemic. casey mulligan is joining us from chicago. what is your overall take away from this pandemic and the cost to the u.s. economy? to the extent we remain shut down, not all states are in that position. it is costing about $22 billion a day, not just in terms of nonmarketctivity but activity, learning in school, young people progressing through .heir careers these are opportunities that are being missed. host: we saw a good jobs report

on friday, 2.5 million jobs added in the month of may. what do you attribute that to? guest: i have been watching the weekly data. that was already visible. a couple of states started opening up. even people in closed states started opening themselves up. that is when we started to see unemployment come down and employment go up. onhink that jobs report friday confirmed what we were already seeing in the weekly data. host: democrats and republicans praising the payroll protection program. how critical it that to the jobs report? data: we don't have enough to attribute it to a particular

policy. that program had a lot of problems. it was run through banks, and banks were not allowed to charge fees, and therefore banks were not really helping a lot of businesses because they could not charge those businesses a fee. a lot of businesses missed out on that and were on their own or relied on other elements of the cares act. host: what does this summer look like economically from your standpoint? guest: we are going to see further bounce back. the weekly data are showing some bounce back. they are large by historical standards. if you had one million jobs in a month, that would be massive. we are so deep right now, we would have to do one million jobs per month for 40 months to come back to where we were. magnitudevery of that

, which you would say is a v-s hape recovery, but we need a massive recovery repeated over and over again. one of the handicaps this summer is part of the cares act was so generous to unemployment that people making more without working when they are working. expires july 31. i think things will get going when that expires. we have already heard a number going tosses are not bother opening until august when they don't have to compete with the amazingly generous unemployment program. host: here is what the president told reporters on friday once the jobs report was released. [video clip] >> we will be asking for a payroll tax cut, additional

stimulus money. once we get going, this will be far bigger and better than anything we have seen in this country. we are going to be doing things for restaurants and various pieces of the entertainment industry, which will be an incentive whether it is deductions or whatever. the restaurants will be harder to come back. i must tell you, i have seen some tremendous numbers in our restaurants. we are looking at doing an incentive with taxes. we will be announcing it pretty soon. despite the numbers and how good they are, we will be so far ahead of everybody else if we do what we are doing. our borrowing cost is zero. let me follow up on the payroll tax cut that the president says is in the works and helping the hospitality and

tourism and restaurant industries. politics is not my expertise. i always thought the payroll tax cut was something of a bipartisan agreement. president obama did a payroll tax cut. republicans are interested in it now. you would think they could all agree on that. in termsa lot of sense of economic incentives. principle, it can appeal to both parties. i appreciate the president pursuing that. the travel industry and restaurant industry, at the moment, i don't think their challenge is that they were shut down by government. it is, are people willing to do that? you have been allowed to fly

throughout this, and people are not doing it. it is going to be more the consumer attitude and comfort with that. some of the onus is going to be on the companies, that they are going to need to change their operations and make it attractive to the consumers. i'm confident they will because they have money at stake. industriesin those is innovation and not so much just shoveling cash in their direction. host: are americans more reluctant to travel not just because of the pandemic but because restaurants are close, broadway is closed, attractions like las vegas, disney world are closed. guest: you are right, they go together. las vegas is a nice example. in las vegas, they can put those together. in lass a long tradition

vegas where the airline industry, the hotel industry would work together in terms of selling the consumer a package. they will get together in a creative way and do that again. given what they have done in the past, i do not think it is beyond their capability. if the policy is done right, they will have incentives to do it for their own bottom line. we are talking with casey mulligan. he is the former chief economist for the council of economic advisers in the trump administration. book, you are hired. if you could list the headline for his number one success and number one failure, what would it be? guest: deregulation has been his number one success. he put a regulatory budget on

it. it is amazing that our country never had a budget for the regulators. how could you run an organization without having a budget? e finally put a budget and, this has limited the number of costly bit and costing the rest of us americans a lot. that does not get a lot of fanfare because there are so many little pieces that add up to the total. aso, it has been mislabeled environmentally harmful. hardly anything the president has done in deregulation has been environmental. it has been about health insurance. that is not environment all. it has been about the environment -- internet. that is not environmental. it goes beyond what i showed in my book, beyond what ronald reagan dreamed of, let alone did.

notnumber one failure is fixing all the parts of obamacare. he wanted to get rid of obama care altogether and did not do it. obamacare still has problematic things in there. that wasa subsidy prohibitive for years and years. obamacare said tranquilizers have to be covered. the problem is tranquilizers are easily abused. opioid andrt of the fentanyl lifestyle. we see 10,000 deaths a year, people from opioids and tranquilizers. obamacare requires that we subsidize those. do we need to subsidize a fentanyl lifestyle? i do not think so. by not repealing obamacare, i view that as a tragic failure. joining us from camden, south carolina. caller: good morning.

a two part question now because you just mentioned the environment, but the first question would be can you explain what was the cause for in theculation of error unemployment statistics? apparently there was a massive error made and people are try to figure out where it came from. is second question is, it amazing you have mentioned that this administration has not made any regulations that would hurt the environment when it has just been in the news in the past few they are bypassing regulations that people are complaining about. i do not quite understand your response there. thank you and please respond. todd's first point was about the employment report.

referred to as a calculation error is really an error earlier. we saw this in the government shutdown and we saw it in the previous month's report and we see it this month. where it comes at the interview stage with census bureau employees. somehow the commune occasion is not right and too many people out of thethey are labor force or not working when really they are employed and not at work. confusion is happening there. there is nothing stead editions can do in terms of calculation to fix that. they can point it out and give indicators. they always use the same formula month in and month out and they give you the extra information

if you want to make adjustments to their formula. that way, they are not viewed as using judgment or being tempted to make adjustments for political reasons. they always use the same formula. anytime you're putting formula together, you have to look at how reliable the original source, and that his interviews of many households around the united states. some economists have predicted the unemployment rate would be 20%. let's go to cheryl in pittsburgh. good morning. >> thank you for taking my call. i do not know if this is in the area that he is dealing with, but when the president said anyone who wanted a test could have a test as far as the coronavirus testing goes, and if that is still the case -- i do not know if it ever was the case, but if it is still the

case it would be a perfect time to test people while they are at these protests instead of people sitting around wondering if they are going to get sick later. perfect time for testing is while they are protesting. me on thatd answer question, if he thinks that might be a good idea right now if you want to get the crowd instead of telling them to go later someplace else. telling them to go some place else later seems like you may not want them to get tested. guest: -- host: thanks for the call. that is more of a public health issue, but do you want to address the handling of this pandemic and long-term implications it will have on the economy from your perspective? caller: -- guest: for my experience in

government, new ideas are not welcome. this is not specific to this administration. it goes way back. there are massive bureaucracies that cannot handle new ideas. it is a problem for central planning in general. innovation is not welcome because it makes life difficult. -- in termss with of the testing. can we randomly sampled the population? can we do other things? bureaucracy cannot respond quickly enough. i wish it had been more of a place thattem in would allow different companies different approaches. andfda was late to the game -- in helping the private sector participate in this process. fundamentally, a massive organization is going to be a slow turning ship, nothing kind of nimble craft you want in these situations. host: we welcome our c-span

radio audience. we are talking with casey youigan, author of the book are hired, untold successes and failures of a populist president. in, thanks for waiting lincoln, nebraska. good morning. i just want to give my opinion listening to mr. mulligan. it seems when he was asked -- when you asked him what was biggest success that mr.re, he said removinguccess was in so many harmful -- what he considered harmful regulations. that was his success.

which mr. trump did do. he removed regulations. , mr. mulliganre said that mr. trump's failure -- mr. mulligan framed mr. trump's failure as a failure really in the obama administration, so ,hat was sort of a subtle tricky way of saying it. i guess i would like a comment. host: we will get casey mulligan's response. guest: most problems in government have been there for years and years. will president coming in promise to fix them. if you do not fix them, i called a failure. it does not have to be a new thing. another example in the book is regulations and the maritime

industry. these were 100 years old this week. they do little for the maritime industry compared to the damage they do to our economy, to our environment, to our manufacturing industries. tosident trump had a chance at least partially fix those regulations and he was not able to do it. he was not able to stand up to the special interest in that case. dan might say you could blame president obama for that. i would blame him, too. i would blame president clinton, president eisenhower. a lot of these problems in government are not new. i think people, a lot of people want somebody to fix them. is, they do not, whoever it that is a failure by not fixing our big problems. teresa is joining us for

michigan. good morning. i do not think the regulations that trump got rid of are any good. he is getting rid of clean air, clean water. everything he has done has been benefitedutin -- putin. he does not care about these people. he wants to be a dictator. that is not what is going to happen in america. host: thank you let's go to lauren, joining us from houston, texas. caller: good morning. how are you doing? ask you tooing to turn the volume down on your set so we can hear you better. go ahead with your question or comment. what about the businesses that are not being included in the ppp loans and sba loans?

a lot of low economic businesses are not included. as small businesses recoveringd in the of the economy? host: what about those businesses that do not qualify or are not participating? agree with lauren. from day one, it was clear that small businesses were going to suffer. the big reason for that was the law said the bank cannot charge a fee. bigger companies have relationships with their banks. banks are willing to put an effort to help them out because they will get other banking business from bigger companies. smaller companies, some of them may not have any banking relationship at all. they are left high and dry. they should have allowed banks to charge fees.

that could have been part of the assistance to the smaller businesses that they could have assistance with those fees, but they did not do that. they also could have not run them through the banks at all. again, special interest getting involved. banks want to be part of this. there are other aspects of the cares act that could help more around tax credit. as long as small businesses filed a tax return, which they would do anyway, they can get money from that. i would like to see that the ppp, which is big business oriented, at least be redesigned. from early to mid-march through much of april, the u.s. economy was shut down. businesses were shut down, cities basically shut down. if we have another wave of this pandemic in the fall or winter, do you think we would see the same thing economically or would it be more targeted?

guest: i do not think we should do the same thing. in hindsight,ke but now we have the benefit of hindsight and i do not think we should repeat it. is there political incentives to repeat that? there is a concern that the people losing their opportunity, business people and workers and families and students, they do not have much of a voice and you have different mayors and governors who just are counting mortality, not looking at anything else. it is a concern. i am hopeful that some of the states leading the way will show that maybe lockdowns do not do that much and are not worth the incredible pain felt by everybody in the jurisdiction. host: alan is joining us from indiana.

turn the volume down on your television set and go ahead with your question. caller: i do not have a question. i would like to make a statement. first, we have a president that about the least man on the pole. this money that is coming down is being filtered through at least four channels of people sucking money out of it before the last man on the pole gets it. we have bankers get it. we have lawyers getting it. to strip eating funds. this goes on every day. we have a president that is backed by a party that is corporate driven, wall street driven.

that is the total economy of the united states, we are doomed. we have a president attacking china, who produces at least 60% of the goods we use every day. host: your response? guest: i agree that the legislation is corporate driven. ands written by congress the president sends people down there to try to influence what is in their, but, at the end of the day, his choices to sign or veto. it was clear when this cares act came up that was political devito. both parties have corporate interest. book,ribed this in the how corporate interests are very much at the table in writing laws and regulations. the president is against that and tries to lean against it,

but he is not a dictator. listeners say he wants to be, but he is not one. he has to cooperate with congress and their various agencies and employees. special interests get in that way. i have vivid examples in my book about that. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm a registered republican my entire life but i am not happy with what is going on. ,he success that you mentioned does it outweigh the attempt for the presidency to create a strong man presidency? who will be responsible to raise taxes for the bailout we are putting? in place? -- putting in place? host: thank you, joseph. i know he has this reputation. in my book, i explain how much -- how so much of what we hear

in the news is contrary to what i saw with my own two eyes. the president delegates a lot of things to the states. if you want to be the strong men, why is he delegating to the states? he believes and a lot of us in the white house believe that decisions are better because they are closer to the people who have to deal with them. is president's inclination to let local decide these sort of things. i see that opposite of the strong man. he is not trying to bring things into washington. he is trying to push things out of washington into state and local governments and into businesses and households. if you see the different ,rincipal documents he put out it is about the federal government not flexing its muscle, that consumers and states and localities should

have choice and there should be competition so consumers benefit. if you look at the principles that come from the president -- you never hear the media talk about his choice and constitutional reform. if you listen to what he says and writes down and what he does , the actions and words as opposed to the media reports, this is not somebody who is trying to consolidate power in washington at all. host: the other question is the national debt, in excess of $25 trillion. it has moved faster under this administration than any previous administration, certainly in part because of the pandemic. is it a problem for the economy down the road? does it need to be addressed by congress and the president? guest: when i was in washington, i did not detect interest at all and controlling the deficit in

the executive branch or in congress. there was very little interest. is it a problem or not? career i throughout my have looked at -- we are worried there is too much. what is the price of the government debt? ofally when we have too much something it is cheap. the government debt is expensive. the rates of return are low. apparently there is not enough from a market point of view. maybe the market does not understand, but at least that gives me pause from running out insane we have too many government bonds when these purchases -- purchasers are willing to pay so much at accept a low return on that asset. james is next from washington. you on with casey mulligan.

-- caller: when they give $600 to the unemployed consumer, the consumer is going to spend that money and businesses will succeed. whater question i have is do you call deregulation? how do you compare it with consumer protection aspects involved? i think you're kind of one-sided . if you pay the public, if you give them money, they will go out and buy hamburgers and new cars. topanies should not have advertise. people should want things. if you give them money, they will spend money and companies will succeed. i think this is a correct argument. host: we will get a response. the factso not think

show that people are going out and spending that $600. in the last month's data, savings rate spiked up like we have never seen before. people are not spending it. they are saving it. i am not against saving because saving can go into investment and things like that, but the the caresot show that act money has gone toward consumer spending, toward saving. we will go to pennsylvania. caller: i wanted to ask mr. mulligan about the last couple days. states like arizona, new mexico are on the rise for covid-19 cases. trump still using

to givei and dr. birx him advice on whether they should stay open? because he wants the malt open, but if there have been rises in covid-19 what is your thought on keeping them open or closed? host: thank you. book: the conclusion in my is a quote from president eisenhower about how we need to respect scientists. the end, present eisenhower said it is the people who run the country, not the scientists. i wrote that before the pandemic, but it applies very much here. we need to listen to dr. fauci and respect him, but he is not in charge. that helf acknowledges

has no clue about the economic side of things. it is our elected officials who have to make that balancing act. when dr. fauci says you're going to get x number of cases, to the extent that he is accurate about that, that has to be weighed against the cost to children who are not learning and businesses that are not operating, weddings that are not happening, all those opportunities that are missed. somebody has to weigh that and it should not be scientists. scientists are part of the conversation, but we are a democracy, not a dictatorship by scientists. that is how it should work. is how it works. i have been somewhat disappointed that scientists have carried so much weight in this situation without regard to the costly opportunities that are clearly lost. scientists have turned out to be

wrong about their predictions in terms of diseases and viruses, whereas the economic costs are massive and clear. the productions of economic costs have come out because we know how the economy works. we have been living with the economy our entire lives. sense of whena you're in the oval office or meeting with the president one on one, discussing economic issues, trade, taxes. what is the interaction like with the president? he?engaged izzy -- is guest: he is very engaged. he is an amazing person. i got to go to a bears game and barry sanders was an amazing person in the building, the most amazing person in the building. i'm not sure he is the best football player, but he was outshining everyone else around. the president is like that. he is an amazing person, clearly

ahead of his competition. a lot of times come up my mouth was just drooped open in amazement. he is a smart person. he has a whole set of talents that i do not have that i do not really see in the university world in terms of managing social networks and experimentation. that is my first chapter about the president. notries things and he is wedded to them. he does not called an experiment, but that is what i call it. he is trying something and if it does not work you will turn 180 degrees. he has done that many times and it is proved to be effective in his career as a politician and probably before. so many times that the president does not read things. that is so fake. opportunityad an

putting together reading material for the president that i was able to put something in at the last minute. therefore i know there is no way any of his aides could have seen this material and the only way he could see it is to read it himself. we were in the oval office and immediately he read through everything. infound that page that i put and understood exactly what it meant. i know for a fact nobody could have told him what it meant because it was hot off the printer, literally before i walked over to the oval office. him -- weave seen will present him with new information he had not heard before and he will push back real hard and insist we are wrong. we have to learn that when he is telling us we are wrong, he is going to go back and think it over and read it over and come back and actually adopt what he told us was wrong. he is an interesting personality in that way.

it was very refreshing to see such an open-minded person processing all this information. of course, i am just in the economic realm and he has so many other things to deal with, national security and political considerations. he is impressive. him.h everyone could meet that is why i wrote the book, to give people an opportunity to see what it is like to be there with president trump. he is an amazing person. a lot of people do not like him, but it does not change the fact that he is a rare talent in the political sphere. formerur guest is the economist in the trump administration. his new book, you are hired, untold successes and failures of a populist president. cindy is joining us from st. petersburg, florida. caller: good morning.

question is i am concerned about the immigration visas. i am in the tech industry. i'm a software developer. india, against 77% of who has taken over the american jobs. what would you tell those concerned about immigration issues on the economy? guest: i have a chapter about that. let me summarize a little bit. the president took a scientific approach to the immigration issue in our meetings. i am not talking about rallies and campaigning. he wanted to see what are other countries doing. our team put together information about how does canada do immigration, how does

the united kingdom do it. he quickly gravitated toward a system that would have immigration but base it on how much the immigrants will be contributing to our economy, which is what canada and australia do. i am not super familiar with the canadian and australian software industries. maybe you are. example ine a good terms of where the president is headed. the president is not a dictator. he has to get congress to go along. i am not sure congress will go , especially this house, with anything the president has to do on immigration, including a proposal to go to a canadian or australian system. , i think the way canadian and australian environment is what you should expect for your industry and others.

let's go to texas. caller: i agree with most of what he said. i believe your guesses given the wrong impression -- guest has given the wrong impression. business as you can get when it comes to qualifying. everybody i have working for me -- they can apply for it on their own. ie problem with ppp was if did not have commercial relationships i did not have -- was for at problem self employed person was they

had not finished establishing the rules for how banks were to handle people like me. did, they werey out of money were about to be out of money. i -- iggested to me that laughter them about that. the people that have banking , they wereps obviously going to be first in line. when i decided to try another bank, i tried an online bank, had a tremendously positive experience. i did research. job.did a phenomenal it ran out of money. they change the rules. you had to have your taxes finished. they were working as they went.

they were finishing rules. they decided you had to have that, which i understand. you do not have to have a tax return. host: we will get a response. stephen'sppreciate perspective. washington is in a bubble normally. then you have the coronavirus, where white house employees are not allowed to leave the washington area unless they want to be quarantined for two weeks. they have no clue what is going on out there. we need people like david to speak up. some of them did and that led to improvements, but more commentary from people like dave are needed because they are in their bubble. they have no clue what is going on out here. host: casey mulligan is joining us from chicago. he is a professor of economics at the university of chicago,

served in the trump administration and out with a upcoming book. thank you for joining us. the president tweeting the following. sleepy joe biden and the radical left democrats want to defund the police. i want great and well-paid law enforcement. i want law and order. that from the president this morning. some demonstrations. the washington post shows you the throngs in washington as thousands gathered from capitol hill to lafayette park. thousands vowing to be heard. our question is the following. will the marches in washington and across the country bring about any actual change? if you march in the country, give us a call. for those in the central, eastern time zones, (202)

748-8001. if you are out west, (202) 748-8002. you are watching and listening to c-span's washington journal. ♪ >> monday on the unit caters. -- communicators. on towere fortunate early preserve our old telephone booth infrastructure into wi-fi kiosks. they are strategically located across new york. means ofides a sets acating that predicate for what can be done with census technology, how we can regulate our lighting system. there is so much that can be

done from that platform. new york democratic congresswoman yvette clarke on c-span two. and senate will hold hearings on the federal response to the coronavirus and law enforcement accountability. scaliary of labor eugene testifies before the senate finance committee on the cares act and role of unemployment insurance the coronavirus pandemic. live on c-span, the house judiciary committee hearing on policing practices and law enforcement accountability. mnuchinc-span3, steve testifies before the senate small business committee on the implementation of title i of the cares act. watch this week tuesday and wednesday on c-span and c-span3, online at c-span.org, or listen

on the free c-span radio app. >> washington journal continues. host: front page of the washington post has this piece cowritten by greg miller. bring abouttests actual change? if you march yesterday in washington or elsewhere in the country, give us a call at (202) 748-8000. otherwise, we have divided our phone lines regionally. we will show you what the scene as demonstrations, almost all of them peaceful, looking at police brutality, black lives matter 12 days after the death of george floyd. we first go to roy in melbourne, florida. think these marches are going to bring change and they needed stand in front of the white house and let this president know how they feel. brutality has been going on by police for a long time.

it has to do with their focus. there could be something illegal that they might be taking like steroids, which has been a problem for the last 10 years and the police force. it needs to be heard. we have a divider in chief. he does not care about these people. if he did, he would come out and say something nice, but he is dividing the country more and more. it is going to cost him the election. they need to stand there every day and let him hear this. i had a lot of friends down there when that situation happened monday. they are suing the government. was ong and pony show called for. host: you're talking lafayette park? caller: yeah. my dad worked in that city for 30 years for the government and i spent many time in that city and i cried when that happened. it is a shame of what we got in

this world now. no one worked -- wants to work for the government anymore. they hold their heads down every day but they go in and do their job, even under this mess in the white house. he is a mess and i think he is losing it every day. scene monday the early evening, the washington post calling it tongue-in-cheek the battle of lafayette square. you can see the police showing up before 7:00 as the president made his way to st. john's church, home to president stating back to james madison. every president since then has worshiped inside that church. ray is joining us from pennsylvania. will the march yesterday and these demonstrations over the last 12 days bring about lasting change? caller: unfortunately, i do not think it is going to happen. it has not happened since the

60's. protests happened and people said there were going to be changes here, changes there. one thing people have to remember is politicians are the ones that are going to make the changes. politicians read polls. they see hundreds of thousands of young people out there protesting. they go to the polls and see young people only vote 20% of the time. why do i care what they say? to only way there are going be big changes -- there will be small changes in police departments but the only way these people can get big changes is to vote. if a politician sees this many people going to the polls in the he has avoting, and chance to lose his job, he may make some changes. these people are going to make changes is to get out and vote. i cannot say that enough. it has to happen that way.

this is a view of lafayette park and st. john's .hurch much of this is available at our website. one photograph with the stars and stripes. you can see those demonstrating around the lincoln memorial, the post-writing thousands of demonstrators streaming into the nation's capital saturday in the largest local protest so far over police brutality and racial oppression in the united states. people carrying protest signs marched, many with children, to the area around the white house, where authorities used military humvees and dump trucks to cordon off vehicle traffic. organizers with black lives matter in the district painting defund the police on 16th street northwest in front of the white house.

and a ninth day of massive protests in the district, seeing numerous dimmest rations across the city. some demonstrators said they noticed a shift in the atmosphere as music played and people posed for selfies. result in substantial change in the country? caller: i think black lives matter was a good protest. if only they address the opioid problem and only if they start addressing black on black crime. that will help solve the black problem that people see nationwide. nobody is solving those issues. we have more people dying from opioids. they need to come -- that needs to be brought to the attention, especially to politicians.

we will not get that because we do not pay attention to the people. if you are part of the demonstrations yesterday, we would love to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. rick is joining us from huntsville, alabama. good morning. caller: i think the marches will work. they have to work. if they do not, we are no longer living in a democracy and we need to find what we are living in. as far as addressing black on black crime, black on black crime happens in certain areas, but this police brutality and the consciousness that black men have when they go out exist across the country. please do not divert the attention from what is going on and continue to talk about black on black crime. there are problems there, but,

as i said, this is pervasive across the country. as we have seen, the globe is also in the same mindset about this. yes, the marches will work. they have to work. we are hopefully still in a democracy. if not, we need to find where we are. headline from the washington post. will the protest convulsing america bring actual change? that? you answer when hemy comment is says a lot of contradicting things, biased things with a lot of spin on it. first of the media. it is not the media's fault about trump's perception in the public. we hear him every day. we hear the sound bites on tv.

deregulation was not a success. consumers and everyday people at jeopardy of being vulnerable to big business. why didn't he talk about the and the impact it had on farmers? the mexico wall not being paid for -- the wall not being paid for by mexico, his failure to quick enough,-19 which cost thousands of lives. his failure to lead during this outrage of systemic racism and he is the most silent. all you can do is speak from a law enforcement perspective. guy talking about people saving stimulus checks? poor people cannot afford to save. what they did was spend the thingsllocated towards

that probably was not in the interest of the people that he supports, but they were spending money on means of survival. as far as the marches, i think it will have an impact because a lot of the people who are still racist and do not see the plight inequality arend being outdated. younger generations are growing more unified and with more understanding of each other. phase out the to older generations that are very and do notprejudiced have the ability to see what other people are going through like black people. host: thank you for the call. this is from inside the washington post.

a look at dcm mayor muriel bowser. bowser --yor mario muriel bowser. edward marched yesterday. he is joining us from florida. we're going to ask you to turn the volume down. edward?with us, caller: yes. host: you have to turn the volume down. otherwise, we will not be able to hear you. caller: hold on. host: ok. go ahead, please. caller: is that better? host: yes. caller: it may not have changed too much because america is america. we have tobout it is show love and go forward for the next generation that this is

wrong. that is all i have to say about that. i have no political stance on that even though i am political. get into deaths of young people at the hands of authority , many police, thank you for your time. host: we will go to stephen in oklahoma. caller: good morning. i think some changes going to happen. is the city and government running there. i know many police. my mom was a deputy clerk. i am in a small town of 11,000. they had some bigger protests. it was a shame, what they did. several hundred thousand two spilled out on the freeway from

a side street. we know they had the race riot a couple blocks from there. some crazy supposed to be peaceful protest gets around this guy's horse trailer. horse.ied to burn a this is crazy. we will go to caroline in tennessee. morning. i called and i -- i did not march. i would like to know what they america and why they are doing all this looting and destroying our country. i do not understand what they

are fighting for, what they are asking us for. most of them have a fairly decent life. i do not understand it. that is something i would like for just one of them of antifa or whoever they are to get up and explain what they want us to do for them. why don't the police act as if they are accountable to black americans? you can read it online. stephen, good morning. i wanted to clarify that proximally 900 -- -- $950 million of goods were stolen in new york city. there are four miles of destruction. nobody shows that in that kind of destruction does not help the

cause. officerhis one police is equivalent to people people throughout the whole world. it does not matter who they could be the could be police officers were leaders of nations. there has to be forgiveness and change in the police system. i can imagine walking the beat every day and bad neighborhoods and people sooner or later it may get to them that they need to be monitored and checked on. that is one of the biggest changes that needs to be done. the captain of the police should check on his men and people and women on how things are going and keep a good monitor of that. no matter what, somebody may just have people in them and go snap, like that men did. it is getting back to everybody. host: thank you for the call. the front page of the washington

post says demonstrations and marches continued yesterday and washington, d.c.. in the business section, looting and destruction, some of the scenes of boarded up buildings and stores as a result of what was seen since the death of george floyd in minneapolis on may 25. omar joins us next from san diego. thank you for taking the call. i wanted to make a comment on some other callers that have come in. the racismay that going around here that we are msnbc and cnn and other news agencies, that is a false narrative being pushed by .he radical left what i'm witnessing now is that, with many other people, the narrative of racism is that we

need to regulate morality. that is an impossibility. racism has always been here to an extent and i do not think it is going to go away anytime soon. illegal protests have been -- the illegal protests have been hijacked by antifa. with bagseen revealed of baseball bats, radios, and what have you. protesters,gal which is under the first amendment, everybody has a right to do. these young kids have been educated on our left universities. it goes deeper than that. police doaying the not in various areas individually may be racist to an extent. they are still highly trained and i will leave you with the

comment that next time people are in trouble and they actually say theypolice, they are going to defund the police department, but the next time someone is in trouble, try calling held angels and see what response people will get. thank you. the president last night with the tweet, much smaller crowd than anticipated. police have been doing a fantastic job. cnn andon to say that msnbc are doing everything possible to inflame the crowd. fortunately, they have a small audience. testimony this week by george floyd's brother will take place wednesday. thehill.com. he will testify on the issue of police brutality. mention awanted to

slogan that goes snitches get stitches. a police can show up to a call of shots fired and there could have been 200 witnesses but nobody saw nothing. glorification of the criminal subculture. if you listen to the rap music where they glorified drug dealers and prostitutes and money and guns and they let their kids listen to that music. they do not think it influences their culture. they have to look in the mirror and taken introspective look at how they live. they will not even help the police are the police cannot do their job if nobody will testify. they call them snitches when they are just witnesses. a snitch is somebody that was part of the gang that turns on his own members to get lighter sentencing. that is a snitch. a snitch is not somebody that when a state crime and wants to

get crime off the streets. aidan is next from north carolina. i wanted to explain to the american people are and i'm a black american. i have been a long portion of her host: six years. host:thank you for that. been in law have enforcement for 26 years. host: thank you for that. for my my experience is kids growing up, and incident camened and my sun just out of the v.a. asking a ,uestion and a young officer just because he was asking a question to him, he threatened him and said if you say anything else, i'm going to arrest you. my sun came back to me and talks to me about it. when i heard about it, i went

down to the police station and i talked to the police chief. i said i teach my kids to respect police officers, but if you want these kids to respect you, you are going to have to talk to them like citizens so you can have their respect. from the drudge report, this is a headline. ofathan martin getting a lot attention as george w. bush and mitt romney reportedly will not support president trump in his reelection. jake tapper on cnn with this question to former secretary of state colin powell, who served in the reagan administration and george w. bush administration on the demonstrations in this country and the reelection of president trump. let's watch. [video clip] >> seeing tens of thousands of protesters taking to the streets, what has been your reaction to this moment?

do you think the country is in a turning point? >> we are in a turning point. the republican party, the president thought they were immune, they could say anything they wanted. troubling, congress would sit there and not resist with the president is doing. use is aord i have to word i never would have used with any presidents i worked for. he lies. he lies about things and gets away with it because people will not hold him accountable. watch our congress. i watched the senators heading into chamber the other day with a reporter saying what you have to say? they had nothing to say. they were not react. we are not a country of just the president. we have a congress, a supreme court. most of all, we have the people of united states, the ones who vote him in and out.

i cannot in any way support president trump this year. i know you did not vote for him in 2016. i assume based on the fact that you approved joe biden when senator obama picked him to be his running mate that you are going to vote for joe biden? >> i am close to joe biden on a social and local matter. he is the candidate and i will be voting for him. host: that is one of the five sunday programs we re-air on c-span radio. you can also listen on the free c-span radio app. question,with the whether these demonstrations will make any substantial change in our country. we go to joyce next in woodbridge, virginia.

i'm trying to answer the lady who called in and wants to know what the marches want. i am not able to march because of my age, but my students are out there marching. people that take that people to find it in their hearts to show respect. us, even common respect for fairness in the system. we are not greedy. we are not asking you to share all of your wealth with us. when there is a police action, for instance with george floyd, when they can come out and say he suspects the man had drugs in his system, to me that is because ray a lawsuit right

there because he did not even have proof of it. he did not have proof. all these kinds of things and all of the wording that is set out to protect the police when they have done wrong. we want all these things addressed. have a want you to little fairness in your heart. be able to may not control yourself with the hate, please find it in your heart to not hate us so much. that is what we want. this is from the president a short while ago, saying i'm giving in order for our national guard to start the process of withdrawing from washington, d.c. now that everything is under perfect control. they will be going home but can quickly return if needed. far fewer protesters showed up last night than anticipated. we are going to take you to new york, where mayor bill de blasio will meet with reporters.

in the meantime come up caller: good morning. a couple comments one in regards to the lack of response from republican senators and congressmen. we all know what happens when you speak out against a dictater. i find it very i want resting that during the beginning of the pandemic personal all the gear, equipment needed to protect first responders and health care workers were unavailable and the people were asking the washington for help with those needed supplies. but there was never a problem with weapons of violence such as body armor and gas masks and face sheeleds for police officers batons and all these types of weapons of violence.

they were quite prepared. it would be kind of ironic to hear a mayor calling for washington to quick send us some body armor to push back protesters. so i did not march but i strongly support the people that do march and this country has a long way to go generationally to change the culture has that is going on at this present time. thank you for this opportunity to speak. host: chris next. good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning. i do want to say that i do feel many cops have a bias within our country and it's something we need to work on but i think we've got to look at a bigger picture and a lot of times not willing to have that big conversation. i look at statistics and i see that 72% of black children are born to single mothers and we know through statistics that when we have single parents and not a family structure within

the home what does that possibly lead to? that leads to poverty and that's why 48% of those individuals are living in poverty. and what that does is when we have a poverty what does that lead to? to you having to find income and how do you do that a lot of times? it's through breaking the law. and when we have 50%, 57% of blacks that are being arrested that is committing the crimes in the united states, then in turn what does that all go back to? i feel it goes back to family structure being broken down and that does create bias in cops when that's cloints what they feel like they're dealing with. host: how do you fix those systemic problems? you're right if you grow up in a single parent family you have a higher risk of poverty growing up in poverty. caller: it's a great question. and i would say the biggest thing is we've got to see the importance of having that family structure. and i see that not being taught about in school today. host: how do you fix that?

what do you think the solution is caller: i think we ought to be willing to have those conversations as far as in schools, teaching kids you understand that if you are going to have children outside of wedlock or not within the family structure that you're leading your chances of poverty to an increased rate which then in turn that causes more issues where we have these biases. host: thanks for the call. josh wu next in raleigh, north carolina. caller: i want to address the guy speaking about single mothers. i came from a very -- my parents are still together but my father and my mother had to work two jobs. i'm a white male. why you're seeing a lot of white people walk with them is because we all understand that we're all in the same boat. it was a baby boomers that turned around and gave us money and said go to school, get an education. and there will be jobs waiting. what we had is a financial crisis.

i know people who have master's degrees who can't get jobs. we have government who doesn't take any responsibility for that whatsoever. and they say no we can't turn ound and admit the fact that we were wrong and we've enslaved you to death. but we can sure as all send out checks and spend $3 trillion in three months of a shutdown for a medical issue that should have been handled correctly. because if we would -- we need to focus on where the problem is and the problem is china sends this virus to us by their negligence and black lives do matter and it will make a difference if we do what martin luther king said and we be better. it's ok to want to be violent. i've been arrested by the cops myself. i didn't do anything wrong.

but when i went to court the cops lied and i have countless stories. and all those people marching have countless stories. so let's not pretend the fact that cops do everything right and just because they wear a badge that they're better than the people that are supposed to serve and protect not enforce the law. their job is to serve customer service is their job. host: thanks for call. we are awaiting a live news conference with the mayor likely to talk about coronavirus and the demonstration that is took place yesterday in new york city. and elsewhere in the country. when that happens we'll have it live. a reminder we're back tomorrow morning with another edition of "washington journal." american history on c-span 23 and book tv on c-span 2. it's all on our website.

enjoy the rest of your weekend. have a great week ahead. husband ay, the of kellyanne conway, one of the individuals behind the lincoln project. joining us is gabby she covers politics and the white house. good sunday morning. guest: thanks for having me. host: i want to begin with the story you wrote a couple days ago as the president is now defaulting to his safe space trying to energize the mega base the make america great base as the president looks to his reelection what's he doing? guest: well he's turning to something that really has worked for him in the past which is just focus on supporteders who are the

cornerstone of his base. religious groups, one of the reasons why you've seen the president do so much outreach in the past week alone to the faith community. he of course went and stood in front of st. john's episs copal church here in washington, d.c. and held the bible up and used that photo opportunity to reconnect with his evangelical supporters. the following day he went to a shrine to st. jean-paul ii in an effort to once again reach out to religious voters and also reach catholics who supported him in 2016. so he's turning to a strategy that really focuses on making sure people who supported him in 2016 will turn out again in 2020. it's no longer a campaign strategy that is primarily focused on growing his base to include suburban voters, to include a small percentage of minority voters, independents.

it's really focused on those core trump supporters who have been with him since the first election that he ran in and are the most likely to support him again in 2020. host: so is is the strategy to try to guarantee not only an electoral college vim victory but also a popular vote victory or is the focus to reach to 270? guest: i think it's to reach to 270. the trump campaign has never said that they are looking to get a popular vote victory this time around. their entire strategy leans on about a dozen battleground they're blanketing the air waves in states like arizona, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, those states are core to his chances at reelection and that's where they're focusing their everts right now. again, i think that's why you

do see them zeroing in on white working class voters, religious conservatives, the groups that are time and time again participants in the trump base, the republican party, and that's the strategy that he's embracing at least right now as the country deals with this civil unrest, as we continue to deal with the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, it seems as though he's sort of retreated back into that base-only strategy because that's where he feels comfortable and where it allows president trump to sort of operate in a way that he can speak his mind, he can say whatever he wants because he knows that it resonates with those types of supporteders. host: the story that jonathan martin posted overnight is getting a lot of attention on social media. some leaders are considering a biden vote including former president george bush.

just how significant is this development? guest: on the one hand i think that it could have a major impact on the way that establishment republican voters look at this president as we head to his reelection contest. there are a broad coalition of republican voters who didn't enthusiastically support president trump in 2016 but voted for him out of party loyalty. they didn't feel like there was an alternative that they could support. and that could change this time around and i think you're already starting to see that with prominent republican figures like former president george bush saying that they could not support him, senator mitt romney, a couple of others as well that were sort of on the fence or decline to say whether they'll support the president. speaker paul ryan, former speaker john boehner, jeb bush, obviously a candidate that

trump ran against in 2016. so a lot of these republicans if they come out and do more than simply say that they're not going to support him or that they're going to support joe biden if they start actively campaigning against president trump, if they start trying to rally republican voters behind the democratic nominee, i do think that could have a significant impact on his campaign. host: the president late last night after a day of demonstrations here on our nation's capitol and elsewhere in the country a couple tweets he sent out, a much smaller crowd in d.c. than anticipated the national guard, secret service and d.c. police have been doing a fantastic job, thank you. --went on to say cnn and

where does this put the president? guest: it goes back to what i was saying earlier. in that series of tweets he's talking about republican party loyalty, he's talking about law and order and the effect that secret service and law enforcement have had in quelling violent protests in reaching out to those supporters who appreciate that message. he's reaching out to core trump base supporters who want a president to take decisive action right now to respond forcefully to the civil unrest that's happening. and to also show that he is very much still a popular figure within republican party politics. now, of course there are other polls that show that the president is not doing so well with members of his base. e's been slipping with his approval numbers with white

evangelicals the cornerstone of his political base, with white catholics wrks noncollege educated white women, and so although his overall approval rating remains high with the republican party there are definitely patterns and trends that we're seeing in other polls that indicate the trump campaign is in a bit of trouble right now as five months out from the election. host: what's the week like for the president? guest: i've talked to white house sources who said that the president and the vice president are both still looking for opportunities to sort of get out there and visit some of these city that is have dealt with protests. the white house is trying to ind a way for the president to possibly issue a course correction after last week where he did get a bunch of flack from not only typical

white house critics but also some of his own supporters for that stunt in front of st. john's so i do think that they are looking for opportunities to get the president back out n the trail and to continue to try to issue a message that unifies the country and it's a bit different in tone than what we've heard from him last week. gabby orr joining on this sunday. her work available at politico.com, as always we thank you for being with us. guest: thanks again. host: joining us from alexandria, virginia, a former member of the president's task force on 21st century policing during the obama administration also the director and chief legal council for the police association. we thank you for being with us on this sunday. guest: thank you. host: i want to begin with this headline from the "washington post"s.

with regard to the death of george floyd what if anything will change in the way police operate? guest: well, i think there's a potential for some very wide-ranging changes not only with use of force and how policing is conducted just generally, but particularly in response to the many protest that is have occurred in the way that law enforcement responds to those as well. i will say i watched the video of mr. floyd's death and it caused me great distress and pain. i've been involved in the police reform for the last probably seven years and helping departments around the country implement 21st century

policing recommendations best practices and so forth. and it reminded me how much work we need to -- we still need to do. i will say i think one of the in diate effects we've seen many jurisdictions and states eliminating use of chokeholds or banning the use of chokeholds or other mabnuferse that could be used to block blood flow or air to a person and that is something frankly that was recommended by our task force in 2015, it's been complemented in my state in illinois which is where my home is. we actually passed a law outlawing the use of those types of chokeholds and maneuvers in 2015. so it's not something the department should be using it's not something the department

should be training. but i think that's a really important but also small part of the overall picture. host: george floyd's brother is going to be testifying before a house judiciary committee on wednesday. we will be covering that hearing looking at police practices. what changes do you think could come from washington if any? est: well, washington can do a lot in terms of messaging and leadership and providing funding but real change has to happen at a state and local level. and we've got over 18,000 police departments in the united states, probably 85% of them have 30 or fewer officers. so -- and there is no real -- there are no federal or national policing standards per se. there are a number of best

practices that are developing and have been developed in the field and we hope that those will kind of proliferate and continue to be adopted by departments. but it's a very heavy lift to do that. i look forward to mr. floyd's testimony. or mr. floyd's brother's testimony. i expect to hear a lot of pain and i will share with that pain. i also expect a number of requests for change all of which should be considered. host: that hearing will be live on the c-span networks. the house judiciary committee on wednesday. a lot of moments with police officers around the country over the last 12 days since the brutal death of george floyd including this curetty of wcbstv in new york as one

police officer discussing how one woman feels about her son. >> i can't get him to empty the garbage because searching the buildings with guns drawing and he comes in the house and for two weeks i had to keep him home. he had to get therapy. >> i'll give you my cell number and as soon as things call down in the city and i have time i want you to come out. guest: host: what do you think of that moment? guest: i have to be honest i was not able to hear the last part of the audio. i heard the woman's statement i did not hear the gentleman. i couldn't make out what he was saying. host: it was the nypd assistant police chief saying here's my phone number give me a call, i want to talk to you bhor about this. guest: that's a good response. i hope she takes him up on it and i hope she has the opportunity to be heard. whether people feel like it's a

valid or not, the perception of the folks that police officers serve and protect is important. and their perception is their reality. and clearly what i heard in the that statement was because of some type of a policing action, maybe a sweep or something, i'm not sure what the background is on this, but that her son was traumatized, and unfortunate i think that does happen and i don't know that police -- i don't know that it is intended, i don't believe it is intended but i also don't believe it's recognized and that it's dealt with or people are trying to respond to it. host: and your reaction to the campaign zero and the eight can't wait take action now with

e number of re-- recommendations they say need , have you had a chance to review their recommendations and any thoughts? est: i have seen -- i am familiar with the part of the group that developed them. she also served on the task force and along with some of her colleagues. host: let's get to your phone calls. caller: good morning, america. first, all rookies should have a revolver with six shots in it. end of story. but back in the day traffic cops, yeah, detectedives, you had other people who did other things. i mean it seems like most of

these killings or whatever you may call them started when somebody is stopped bay traffic cop. write them a ticket, let them go. end of story. and as far as funding and training, it's -- a friend of mine told me some of the police departments are being trained in israel. is that true? and one more thing. as far as -- my grandson is a sheriff here in houston. piercing bullets should be banned period by everyone. but listen america we're going to be ok. calm down. and i would like to hear your opinion about all this. host: thanks for the call from houston. your response? guest: first to answer one question i'm not aware of any police training that's being done in israel. it's entirely possible there are some specialized units in

law enforcement and secret service and f.b.i. and so on and i'm sure in regard to international anti-terrorism training we do that jointly with a lot of countries ncluding israel. i can't say -- i think the caller asked about or made the statement that everyone should carry a six-shot resolve. dwron that would be a best practice -- revoverl. there are over 300348 firearms out in the public -- 300 million firearms out in the public today. i would suggest a minority are actually revolvers or six shots. and so we want our officers to be able to protect us and in order to do that they need to have the proper equipment.

then i heard something about armor piercing bullets. i'm not aware of departments that specifically utilize those . i will say that when i say that i mean plults that are actually designated as armor piercing. there are a lot of high-powered not designed to be armor piercing or not military grade armor piercing ordinance but in fact will pierce armor and go through cars that kind of thing. host: we do have one phone line set asaid side if you are in law enforcement. a look at some statistics from minneapolis which since 2012 had used police had used neck restraints on 428 individuals, 65% were black p.

that city's population is 19%. sean smoot former member of president obama's task force on policing, which did what? >> we came out with a -- president obama appointed us to charged us rce -- with coming up with ways that policing could be better integrated with community values, really tcharged us with coming up with practical recommendations for how police and communities could work together and while at the same time continuing to reduce crime. task force was formed in the shadow of michael brown and ferguson and a number of other incidents that occurred in 2014 and earlier.

and as a result of that we came up with a task force report. i have a copy here, i would be happy to show you. and within the task force report we've developed a form and really a national framework but recommendations that could be implemented on a local level of any department of any size. and the report really starts with building trust and legitimacy. that's the first pillar. and building trust and legitimacy between police and the communities that they serve . and the final pillar is officer safety and wellness which is equally important and there's a lot in between with regard to olicy, procedure, oversight,

technology, and so on. so it's i think very comprehensive and it addresses their -- there are recommendation that is address at virtually everything that we're talking about today. host: our guest sean smoot director and chief legal council for the police benevolent and protective association. doug from boston. caller: i have the same question as your previous guest. for the last few years the law enforcement agencies have sent over to israel for training and for law enforcement technique. i was wondering whether that was a contributing factor. but obviously your guest is uncomfortable answering that estion so i'll hang up and for another day. host: it was kind of hard to

hear but he brought up the issue of police training in israel. guest: well all i can say is what i said before. i'm not aware of any police agency that i work with or that i have worked with that sends officers to israel for training. .o i can't say that none do there may be some training that goes on. i just am not aware of it. host: by the way our guest joining us via zoom so a little delay. we'll go to fairfax, south dakota. caller: good morning. i really don't have a question but a couple statements. back in the 60ings and 70s i can remember the riots going on. but it didn't affect us too much. but they came out with a report after that and basically were

poverty, housing, and military respobs with live weapons were some of the findings. and there's always two sides to every story but there are some cops that like to take the authority given to them way over the top in my opinion. back in the 80s the chief of police in my hometown i -- we had a disagreement. i i told him to take his badge off and we can settle it. but we have a population of 8.7% indian population and south dakota one of the least populous states jails most people per capita 3% and the black people four times the rate of white and indian people ten times the rate of white. buffalo county south dakota 90 miles up river poorest county in the nation most indian population 70% unemployment.

so i don't know i guess that's my comments. there's a lot of good police but also a lot of bad ones. every nationality has good and bad and we have to hope most are all good. host: thank you for the call. let me take his point and direct it in terms of police chiefs. as they direct their department based on what we saw in minnesota and elsewhere in the country, what should the message be to the men and women who serve in law enforcement? guest: you said based on? we are having some audio issues. you said based on where? host: my question is what should police tcheefs, those who direct these departments, tell those who serve in uniform. guest: well we would hope that they have built a culture in their departments that promotes equity, that promotes protecting everyone, and everyone's degreety regardless