corporations. it will be based on how we value the quality of life and the health of our communities. we are in the midst of a health , on top of all of the underlying issues that have impacted this nation for decades. host: when it comes to the issue of racism, if it does not fall to policy -- what could be done policy wise to make these changes? guest: you look at the gaps between everything from access to health care, quality how we view the culture of policing in our community, and how we address issues of disparities around employment and economic opportunity, those are structural and long-standing policies that have racial impacts. we have to account for the historical realities of the structural gaps, many of which were very intentional. what we are looking at now is not only the death of ahmaud

arbery in georgia, or george floyd in minneapolis, or any of the other issues, we are looking at all of this stuff combined in the frustration you are seeing spilling out in the streets. host: i see them by the nature of your discussion that joe biden is the one who can address these issues? guest: i am not addressing any one person can address public policy, it is not changed by one person. but it does require some leadership. we are lacking in leadership both in many governorships, legislative bodies, congressional leadership, and in the white house. this is not a one-person proposition, this is holistic. nation to determine as a , will we muster the political will to move in the right react,on or continue to to incidents as they occur and then go back to business as usual.

host: let me take it to the congressional level. we saw house democrats unveil a legislative package in dealing with police reform. walk through what they proposed and what you think the impact could be if it was passed. guest: i think the leadership of the congressional black caucus, andg with speaker pelosi the majority of the members of the house, they have listened to many of the concerns on the streets. it is not perfect, but when you begin to propose policies that address the issue of qualified immunity, being able to hold police officers accountable for their actions. that is one of the biggest failures for officers to be held accountable. or establishing a registry so that police officers who have been identified as bad actors, their records are not shielded.

the type of training that is provided for police officers. there are several components of that legislation that i think is really important to begin to shift the culture around how we view policing in this nation, particularly when it comes to african-americans and other situated.s similarly host: our guest is with us until 9:30. you can call and question on 202-748-8001 for republicans, democrats on 202-748-8000, and 202-748-8002. guest: there is always room for improvement. as we are looking at the legislation, i am sure the more time that goes by, we will identify some of the gaps. i am just glad we have some momentum around this question that has tested this nation for many years. andou look at the riots

incidents throughout the history of this nation, it has always been connected somehow to local law enforcement not carrying out their duties. the naacp, cp -- in we had a campaign in the 1920's because of african-americans being lynched. we had a sign at the local office saying "a black man was lynched yesterday." citizens included the local sheriffs and law enforcement who were participating in the most egregious offenses. the most egregious was when residents would come and have a picnic. that is how audrey just the situation was doing that particular -- how outrageous the situation was doing that particular period of time. to the current time, there has been instances where injustices have become so outrageous that citizens have no other choice but to take to the

streets in protest, which opens the door for some of the riotous behavior we have also seen. host: one of the things that stemmed from that over the last few days is the idea of defunding or dismantling the police. where does your organization stand on those concepts? guest: we understand the energy behind the need to change the culture of policing. i have heard a few definitions of what it means. for me, i would say we need to change the culture. growing up in detroit and being give what to go across to canada, you could see a different culture between community and policing relations. law officers in canada for the most part don't carry firearms. there was a different relationship between the parties on the community. we have seen a substantial drop in criminal activity over the drop,ear, a substantial but we continue to see an increase in police budgets. the real question is how do we

place a priority on where we should be as a nation? should we put more resources into preventative measures? should we provide more training for police officers so they can have a different outlook on the community they serve? should police officers live in the communities they are serving so they understand and can appreciate the dynamics of those communities? times we see policing in certain communities and not others, and some type of militarized resins to ensure a order when there is no increase in -- nothing that is out of order. but there is a need for people to communicate, for people to see one another as a part of a community. i can say from experience growing up in the neighborhood i grew up in, we dealt with two type of police officers in my neighborhood, those we did not trust that had a reputation of harassing, and in one case, killing individuals, then there

were those who came from the communities that we knew. when we saw those officers pull up, we would say, that is officer hawkins, or lieutenant --. sometimes they played basketball with us and would talk to us. but other police officers, we knew there was trouble. not that we were involved in trouble, but they created the trouble. presidentick johnson, and ceo of the naacp. our first call is from robert in massachusetts. go ahead. caller: hi, ledger and hi, derek. i have a question first about defending. i want to thank the chief. one of the caller talked about the way people were acting on the street. we cannot be focused on that because we will always blame a few people that acted a certain way. this is why she is worried about if we defund the police, where we would be. host: the last segment.

this is a new guest. what is your question for the guest? defunding, people should realize that we have a lot of police that become -- that was in the military and come back. they are trained to kill. we must hire people that are mentally ready to be policing people. this doesn't mean that when we called 9-1-1 for a fire, the police come, or when we call 911 someone is in crisis or a heart attack, the ambulance comes. when we have somebody in distress, like an overdose, we don't need to call the police with a gun and a badge. we have a lot of bad apples who show up in a situation they are not ready for. host: ok, robert. mr. johnson? guest: he makes an important point. we need more training for officers on how to de-escalate the situation and not postured

to escalate situations. individuals are bringing experiences where they have not been properly supportive. particularly if you were in the armed forces and you fought overseas for our nation, there is a level of support you need mentally to transition back and begin to see civilians that you protect is noto being combatants. host: from oklahoma on the republican line, roberta. caller: yes. i wanted to ask a question. i have heard many times that we send our police persons to israel for training. is that true?

guest: i cannot answer that, i think that is department by department. i do not know where officers get trained outside of their local state academies. i can only imagine that if they there are relationships, their possibly could be scenarios where officers are trained outside the country. host: at these protests, what does it mean that many white people are showing up to participate? you saw senator romney himself participate. what does that suggest to you about how the climate has changed? guest: it is outstanding. it is what is needed at this time. this is not a black or latino problem. this is an american problem. anytime we can watch live someone murdered in the middle of the street in broad daylight, and the officer casually place their knee on an individual's neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds.

arrest.ot resisting he was laying flat on his stomach and handcuffed, and he had a cry for help. that is perhaps one of the most inhumane things that many of us have seen on television so i am glad that more americans are standing up and asking the question. this cannot continue to be america. we knew this had always taken place. i am now glad to see people join in. for senator romney, i commended him for his stance and for his march. now i want to see him stand up and help support policy that will change the reality in which many of us live in. host: to that end, mr. johnson, there was a recent op-ed by you and other members including an alliance your organization has with the church of latter day saints. can you describe that? guest: i come from the position that in order to be a stronger nation, we have to reach across

communities and build understanding and acknowledge past wrongdoings. , ithe beginning of my tenure reached out to many committees to open up a dialogue. how can we work together? what are the things we have in common? so the dialogue with the church of latter-day saints predated this incident. but it was with incidents like these in mind that we began the open dialogue. host: you can find it online. guest. johnson is our we go to virginia on the independent line, hi. caller: good morning. i know the popular saying right now is, let's have a conversation about this. i agree. now, everybody sees major cities around this country are having a problem. part of it is the tax base. they don't have enough taxes to support things.

why do they not have enough taxes? because of businessman will not open a business in a city where when something goes wrong, they are coming in and burning down places. people do not want to live there. here in richmond a couple of weeks ago, there was an eight-year-old girl who was shot and killed. she was sitting in her apartment. unless and until we rip the scab off -- in chicago over the memorial day weekend, i think there was 60 people shot. if we are going to have this conversation, let's address it, because i do not hear anyone ever talk about chicago. why can't they solve that? if we will create a program, let's create one in chicago, in baltimore. let's see if it works. if it works, absolutely, let's try it everywhere. guest: i love the concept of ripping the scab off. i think what the caller is getting to is the structural

racist policies and institutions that exist. the reason why you have the like of unrest in cities chicago or baltimore -- i grew up in detroit -- is because the institutions that should be in place to support the ability for young people to aspire to their

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