author and brooklyn college professor alex bertelli on policing in america. p.m., -- 9:00 a.m., representative michael burgess discusses the federal response to the coronavirus pandemic. ♪ host: this is the washington journal for june 11 at 1:00 this afternoon, the house will look at issues related to voting rights during the coronavirus pandemic. you can watch it live on c-span, view it on c-span.org, listen live on our free c-span radio app. not only have house tenants and senate -- house democrats and some republicans looked at ideas improve police practices, president trump is looking at an executive order of the very same sort. we will show you some of the proposals on in our first hour ask you to tell us what police

reforms you would be comfortable supporting. .epublicans, (202) 748-8001 democrats, (202) 748-8000. .ndependents, (202) 748-8002 if you are a member of law enforcement, call us at (202) 748-8003. you can also post on twitter and facebook as well. thehow you some of proposals, the washington times, on its front page, a story by oyer, president trump considering an executive order on this topic, white house officials say the president is considering proposals such as creating a national registry for police misconduct, requiring de-escalation training for cops and a limiting the use of chokeholds, although aides caution no decisions have been made. the white house ruled out the democratic proposal to rule out

on qualified immunity. the justice and policing act is being offered by the house democrats. some of the proposals were laid out in that bill. [video clip] >> the nation's demanding we enact meaningful change. this is a systemic problem that requires a comprehensive solution. that is why the justice in policing act takes a holistic approach that includes a variety of front and reforms -- front end reforms while holding bad police officers accountable while separating those from true ethics in those that protect and serve. the bill would also make it easy for the federal government to successfully prosecute police misconduct cases. it would banned chokehold's and and racially discriminate of profiling.

it would also eliminate the dubious court made doctrine of qualified immunity for law enforcement. the billme time, encourages departments to me to gold standard in training, hiring, de-escalation strategies, bystander duty, and use of body cameras and other best practices. it also creates a new grant program for community-based organizations to create local taskforces on policing innovation that would reimagine public safety so that it is just and equitable for all americans. the goal of this legislation is to achieve a guardian, not worrier model of policing. the justice in policing act is at once bold and transformative to meet the moment that calls out for screaming reform, while also taking a responsible and balanced approach to the many complicated issues associated with policing. i look forward to bringing it before our committee in short order. part, senateir

republicans have told him, to head up acott, proposal on what they would call the justice act, the draft has been released and some of the items in that require states to provide data on no knock search warrant warrants, increase funds for body cameras, basic policing reflective of the community, and adds a new crime of conspiracy to commit a hate crime. you can find more details at the senator's website. with some of those ideas out there, you may support them or not. you have some of your own? tell us about police reform efforts you would support. (202) 748-8001, republicans. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you are a current or retired members of law -- member of law enforcement, you can call us at at the48-8003, texas

same number as well. you can post on our facebook page and twitter. fill in new jersey texting us this morning, saying let's start with ending the blue wall of silence. nationwide database of officers duty record. another, offers banned chokeholds. requiring as criminal justice degree would be a good start. we start with milton in pennsylvania, democrat line. myler: i would like to send condolences to the george floyd family. i have a couple reforms that i think would be very important to bring into our dialogue. one is, most police forces should reflect the community

that they serve. i live in philadelphia. we are predominantly african-american. our police force should reflect the diversity of the community. thing o, this immunity for cops, get rid of that. if cops can go out and commit crimes and cannot be sued civilly, they would think about it before they start beating on people, because they know they would be sued civilly. it doesn't help that you have a president that is the divider in ief. host: charlotte next, that is where jeannie is. go ahead. caller: yeah, reform has to start with the police department. they need to nationalize the police department. every state has their own national guard, and like the guy said before me, each one of

those national guard represent their community. they need to nationalize the police department, and i would like to add that everybody needs to stop blaming president trump for everything. [inaudible] what's the value of a national guard versus a local police force. what's in your mind? caller: most national guard members come from their own community. you know, [inaudible] everyone has to come all over the states like the regular military. the national guard takes the locals and they put them in the guard to protect the issues of the state. i think we need a national police department with guidelines, and i would like to add that people need to stop blaming trump for everything, because the democrats have a big head in this too. we need to reform our government. when it comes to police

reform, do you think president trump is taking the lead on this? is he showing leadership in this effort? caller: i don't know yet. but i am sick of biden, i am sick of these old republicans, old democrats that are from the 1960's and the 1950's. we need new blood. let's go to amy in rockledge, florida, line for democrats on reform. you would support police reform, aiming? go ahead -- amy? go ahead. caller: i am a veteran and i support police reform here in rockledge. support body cameras, and i heard our police chief talk. it not only protects the the policet protects that are serving the community. our police chief said they found the citizens had less complaints because everyone could remember what happened. a lot of times when there was a

vent, people's emotions run high. it reallye a record, does help. my final comment is i do believe that trump has caused some of this, because he did encourage people -- he encouraged them to rough them up. i heard him at his rallies, encouraging the police to rough up the people they arrested. he does have a part in this. host: amy in florida to the issue of technology, one of the related stories stemming from the last couple of days with amazon deciding not to let the police forces use their technology, saying in its blog post that the company hoped a moratorium on its service recognition would give congress put in ruleso for the ethical use of physical -- facial recognition.

in the past, amazon has said it's tools were accurate but improperly used by researchers. on monday, ibm said it would stop selling facial recognition products. leading maker of police body cameras banned the use of facial recognition on its recommendation of its independent ethics board, saying the technology is not torently reliable enough ethically justify its use. is nexts -- renee in laurel, maryland. caller: thank you for c-span. i sincerest condolences to the family of george floyd, and i think reform starts which each -- with each mayor of the city. i'm in support of retraining. i am in support of body cams. if they are not turned on, the police officers should be fired. they should be held accountable. they should be investigating

misconduct into assaults, rape, because we do know that police officers will rape lack women -- black women. they should be investigate in misconduct into abuse and lying on police reports. they should be held accountable and do community service into the communities they have done a disservice to. a.k.a. taylor's killers, still have not, been arrested. it was said best at the hearing yesterday -- this is a moral issue. for those of us who believe in voting, you need to get out and vote. renee in laurel, maryland. during the back and forth a -- asking was mike johnson of louisiana. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> there is a consensus among

every member of this committee that there are solutions we can restoreards that will faith in institutions and restore trust in our communities. we believe the most actionable reforms must focus around three --rt concepts -- core, core concepts. is key if weround are going to accomplish the goal of keeping our communities safe, upholding the civil liberties of individuals, and protecting the legitimacy of law enforcement. none of the goals i have outlined today are mutually exclusive. we can and should clearly condemn the senseless violence we have seen and all causes of it, from a few bad apples wearing a badge to anarchists sparking riots in our streets. at the same time, we can start together on meaningful reforms and real results while upholding the respect and appreciation that is due to every american patriot who faithfully serves us on the thin blue line. ast: you can see more of

hearing at c-span.org. on our twitter feed this morning, a viewer who identifies as border collie mom says police need to rotate in and out of office, adding that they get jaded. intensive psychological evaluations of current law enforcement officers --weed out the bad off -- bad apples. fire them if they cannot change. lee merlin on our facebook -- none, they do a fine job in a violent world. you can text us too at (202) 748-8003. we have also set aside a line former law and enforcement officers as well. laura from tennessee is next, republican line. good morning.

caller: yes. host: you're on, go ahead. caller: i would just like to say that i have police officers in my family and have had since i was a little girl and i'm 57. all police aren't bad. you take a few and they ruin everybody. there are police officers, and i love my family. host: when it comes to police, our reforms needed -- are reforms needed? caller: i think most police officers nova the bad ones are, but you know, they are a brotherhood. you know, they have to watch each other's back, you know what i'm saying? maybe they should put up like some kind of a box where they can put in anonymous requests,

you know, or anonymous feedback to the police chiefs or the mayors, that this surgeon officer -- certain officer is doing certain things he shouldn't be doing. laura in tennessee. we will go to ohio, democrat line. floyd is next. caller: hi, how are you doing? host: good, go ahead. caller: listen, the last lady that was on his right. i'm a democrat. i am in the suburbs of have had, ohio, so i experiences, but first let me say, my heart goes out to the floyd family. i feel his pain, because i heard everything he had to say yesterday, but there really is because ion the beat, think you have three kinds of police officers. you have your real, true to the game, down-home good cop.

he is a good guy, out there in the streets, dealing with different people all the time. then you have your racist cop, then you have your scary cop. you have to go through and figure out which one of these guys are on the streets, because a lot of people do, a lot of us think out of fear, some do it out of racism. the one that killed officer floyd -- mr. floyd was definitely racist. reforms change that? are there things you would support? caller: yes, there are things i would support. i don't support the funding. i support screening. you know, you have to screen people. psychological evaluation test. don't allow someone to cross the street without a background is a kkk member or someone running around with swat stickers on. you don't want a black man running around with a black

panther shirt on, so you have to get regular people who deal with regular people every day. all cops aren't bad. if everybody could just take a take time out to figure it out. host: that's floyd in ohio. the wall street journal takes a look at organizations that assist with training police officers on the college level. north carolina state board of community colleges on friday voted to put as much as $100,000 in state reserve funds towards increased training related to law enforcement de-escalation and community relations. that will be run at the state's 50 eight community colleges. meanwhile, in virginia, a panel was established last week to look at the curriculum it uses for police officers, saying virginia's college system

enrolled nearly 2400 people last year. we will go next to marietta, georgia, the independent line. good morning. first of all, i do not believe we should disband the police, but i think there should be reforms. some of the reforms i think that should be instituted is one, the red fromhould be hi the community they will be policing and should have to live there. secondly, police officers that witness other police officers doing bad things, they should be criminally responsible as well as. -- as well. notion that there are more good cops than bad cops -- if that is true, then how come the 90% good can't do something about the 10% bad?

we also talk about the blue wall of silence. here you have cops that won't tell on other cops, but the same cops would expect someone in the community that witnessed criminal behavior, they expect them to turn those people in without thinking what the consequences are for them. to me, that is wrong. ok.: let's go to michigan, john, republican line. hi. caller: good morning. i am a 76-year-old white guy, had inn i grew up, we the local police scene, guys -- guys who wanted to be tough, shove people around a little bit. level, theye county

were a little bit better, the state police, they were a lot better. better training. i did notice though, today, i county that is one of the safest counties in the united states to live in. but one thing that we don't have is much racial strife. the reason is, because we don't have many black people. regardless of what you might think, most of what we see in our area is blacks coming in and committing crimes from detroit, flint. host: so to the idea of reforms, you are saying none are needed? caller: yeah, there should be better training for police but you know, you hear

that lady saying that the 90% of the police officers should be telling me 10% that are bad, ,hey should be looking out reporting, whatever. i agree with that. why don't the 90% of the good take some, you to control to try these 10% of the black people that are out there, you know, committing crimes. host: ok, that is john in michigan. one of the people who testified at the house judiciary committee hearing was the brother of george floyd, talking about the death of his brother and changes he would like to see. [video clip] i'm tired. i'm tired of pain. pain you feel when you watch something like this. when you watch your big brother who you looked up to your whole

life died begging for his mom? i'm here to make it stop, stop the pain, stop us from being tired. he shouted for help when he was ignored. listen to the call i am making now, the calls of our families and wringing out across the streets across the world. people of all backgrounds, genders and races have come together to demand change. honor them, honor george and make the necessary changes that make law enforcement the solution and not the problem. hold them accountable when they do something wrong. teach them what it means to treat people with empathy and respect. teach them what necessary force is. teach them that deadly force should be used rarely and only when life is at risk.

george wasn't hurting anyone that day. he didn't deserve to die over $20. i'm asking you, is that what a black man is worth? $20? this is 2020. enough is enough. the people marching in the streets are telling you enough is enough. country,aders in our the world needs the right thing. the people elected you to speak for them to make positive change, george's name means something. to have the opportunity here make your names mean something too. the world a changing for the better, and i think it d.ll, then he died as he live it is on you to make sure his death is not in vain. host: jr on twitter says when it

comes to reforms, he goes to the idea of neutering unions, adding that they are protecting bad actors not because of racism, vote because it is their job. from ohio, the general public is one that needs to be reformed. follow police procedures and commands when they are approached by a police officer and not actually they know the law better than the officer. this would eliminate a lot of the problems with policing. teach de-escalation without guns , teach techniques that are taught to health care workers in psych facilities, and ending stop and frisk if it is in place anywhere. lynn, democratt, line. good morning. i would like to add to the topic, that i believe all policemen, when they are hired, should actually sign a pledge

that says that they are not a of ar or a sympathizer terrorist organization, any of them, like the kkk and the , but similar to what the person from ohio was beginning to refer to. they should document it in writing. if they lie on that pledge, they would be required to pay back the community all of their salary from day one to the time that they are discovered that they are a sympathizer or a member. i think that police officers have to begin their job with a neutral, positive attitude, and these organizations clearly have stated for years that they have a bias against black people. sharon in wisconsin, independent line. hello. caller: hello, how are we doing? host: good. caller: i would like to make a

comments, your officer yesterday said they were trained to deal with mentally ill people, and that is a crock of bs. if they did, a lot of these people, we wouldn't be going to jail, we would be getting treatment. i have been thrown in jail so many times because of my mental illness. to the point of me actually hurting somebody with a weed wacker to get me help. i was court ordered to get help. always thought i would be on the right track. i am a recovering drug addict. i suffer from mental illness. host: the reforms you would advocate for then is about what? caller: i would like these cops ptsd, black folks are suffering because of their mental illness. i don't think anyone in their right mind would commit as many crimes that they do. wide swath ofas people connecting black people

with mental illness. i think we all need to be connected with mentally ill people, we are the ones why this is happening. host: to bob next. caller: how are you doing? you? i'm good, how are caller: so many thoughts, so little time. the policing situation we are involved with needs to be dealt with, but the simplistic answers that so many people are coming up with just drive me crazy. slogan, butmay be a it is not a slogan that is going to play well across the american electorate. i think the biggest problem taking care of many of the peace problems is the union problem. one cannot discipline a policeman because of the union

issues, and because so many of that are the "good policeman" are afraid to say because of the mentality and the union. until that is cleaned up, i don't think you are going to have major reforms in police. i also don't think that the simplistic condemnation of no knock warrants is appropriate. there are real reasons for no knock warrants. what?such as reason for nothe knock warrants, there's a number of things, not the least of which is the kind of people that no knock warrants are generally addressed to our people that down thesh drugs toilet very quickly, that could destroy evidence, that could prove a case, all kinds of

things that will benefit the community in a big way. when that no knock warrant is applied at the wrong address, at the wrong time, by the wrong people, that's why what happens happens. angeles,t's bob in los california. to the topic of unions that he referenced out of minneapolis, it is the police chief there announcing yesterday that the police force will immediately withdraw from contract negotiations with the police union as a part of a push to reform the department after george floyd's death. they planned to bring in outside experts to find out how the contract with the police officers federation can be restructured to provide greater flexibility for true reform. maybe it is to the focus of unions that you think reform is

needed, maybe you think there are other avenues. maybe you think no reform is needed, but you can let us know in the next half hour. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. for independents, (202) 748-8002 . a tired of current law enforcement officer, you can call (202) 748-8003 and text your thoughts to that same number, including her name, city and state. some of the proposals being offered by democrats and republicans in washington, house democrats unveiling their package earlier this week, which includes amongst other things prohibiting of racial and religious profiling, would amend the federal criminal statute to prosecute police misconduct and improve investigations of misconduct on the federal level. it would banned chokehold and no knock warrants and make touching a federal crime. on the republican side in the senate, a list of ideas they are working through as far as

potential legislation on their front, something called the justice act. senator tim scott is taking the lead on this, what require reporting of serious use of force that resulted in death or band no knock -- require states to provide data on no knock search warrant's, and increase funding for body cameras. if you want details, those are available on their respective websites. kathleen, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. that's going to solve police brutality is separation. that is the bottom line. defund, don't, give them money, whatever. the only thing that will stop police brutality is separation. host: what do you mean by that?

so-called white folks on the left and so-called black folks on the right, every overn their own people. the united states is their only country that governs another people that they brought into oppression. host: the police on a community level, which is a mix of people. how can you do policing if you want to separate them? be mixed uphouldn't because the lord, the created of the universe separated us in the beginning. they are the one who oppressed us and took us captive. we need to separate from them. they are always going to hate us. esau and jacob, the bible is true. host: let's hear from kathy in michigan. republican line. caller: how are you? i am so happy for your program

today, and my condolences to the floyd family, but i respectfully have to submit something. peace,n, may he rest in there had to be something that he did, whatever it was, they are not talking about it, but i cannot believe this man went up to him and killed him. i also want to let you know that the police here in michigan are wonderful. my mother used to say listen, out of all the eggs there is always going to be one that is rotten. i do not care how much people talk about what needs to be changed, that is not going to change. you have bad lawyers, bad doctors, but they don't -- they don't kill people, they break their hearts. a doctor makes a mistake, their lives are ruined for the rest of their life. host: so no reforms are needed? caller: so the reform has to do within the person. psychologically, in the brain. that is what is wrong.

if you are hiring a priest that excuse me, policeman that has psychological problems, 14 or 15 mistakes against them. at rid of them. what are you keeping them on four. if you have something in the refrigerator that is rotten are you going to eat at? no. you are going to throw it in the arbage. host: do you think the officer that killed a -- killed george floyd had psychological issues? i do.: there is one policeman that was only there for four days and didn't do anything. i would have run up to that guy and pushed him off that guy. i do not care if i would have gotten shot. that man did not deserve to die. host: let's go to texas, democrat line. bob, hi. caller: hello pedro.

thank you so much for washington journal, and i feel so bad about the george floyd death. let me tell you how to stop all and it relates back to when i was in boot camp in the navy in 1952. thee had a bad apple, higher-ups did not take care of him, the guys in the company took care of him, because if he was bad he reflected on the whole company. here is how you do it. raises their behavior to to everyone in that department, and that will take care of it. some people cannot handle having a bad and a gun, and of the good old boy network would end immediately if you tied their tie the raises for the

whole department to the behavior of the department. i promise you, it will take care of itself. host: a poll from usa today and sos, askinge -- ip who do you trust to promote equality and justice for people of all races? the top was the u.s. military. black lives matter came in at 60%, local police and law enforcement at 56%, protesters at 52%, joe biden at 51%, police unions at 40%, and president trump at 38%. i think we need more cops like dirty harry and dexter. what's going on now is they are

more concerned about phones, phones and seatbelts, duis, instead of fighting crime. they are telling us this week it is all over one thing, or the elected politicians. if they are trying to privatize we noticed last week in the riots they had to stand down , they were breaking windows but they can defend themselves if they see something come out of a person's pocket, but they can't usend a if -- defend if they are burning a building down. you find these bricks staged in the middle of the city, and you wonder if there is something bigger because america is so gullible, they are contemplating having the military police us. host: if that is the case you make, why do you believe videos on youtube?

caller: i don't really believe them, but i try to have an open mind as to why they are trying to [inaudible] in the riots, basically. is there a bigger picture here? we were locked down for 3, 4 months over corona cold and these rides and distractions happened out of nowhere out of peaceful protests and these paid age,rs, all of the same stand on their phone and watch them do it. i am a white male, 57 now. i have been shot by the police accidentally. my friend was traveling and got pulled over for a broken headlight, that's how we stopped.

we had 3, 5, maybe a police eight policeaybe after us. we had our hands up. 30 shots. i found out that all the rounds were from the sides. there was no reason to shoot. that's not the point. host: then what is the topic of the matter of reform then? caller: pack mentality should be eliminated. there was no need for a high-speed pursuit. we ended that case. i believe police should be allowed [inaudible] blacks are bringing police reform to the table, even though it is just as much about the whites. somethinge have to do with congress. congress needs to come up with something that would protect the public and the cops. there were four police that did nothing.

host: we have two lists of proposals we have shown this morning on ideas that democrats and republicans are promoting. are any of those good in your mind? caller: yeah. if a police wants to stand up, he needs to be protected with the full backing of the united states. call it the george floyd bill. they will floyd bill, not be suspended or granted or treated like dirt, that lady three callers ago, i would have jumped in there even if i got shot. she could have said i want to enjoy -- employee the george floyd bill -- employ the george floyd bill and jump in. host: ok. over 112,000 deaths, close to 113 deaths. it comes reforms when

to policing. go ahead. i believe once the person is apprehended by the police, there is no need to beat them up. why beat them on the head and the neck, and why put a knee on a person's neck? you know how delicate the neck is? the person saying i can't breathe, stop. they should be reformed as to the people. we are all humans. host: go ahead. caller: there are some good cops and some bad ones. i think they should take out those bad cops. they are racist. take them out. they belong to the ku klux klan, take them out. host: we will hear from joe, in maine in battleford. good morning, pedro. i always seem to get you when i

get through. that is depressing. my family was in the police force, my father was a detective , knight commander on the police force for 35 years. he represented the city that we lived in in trials with lawyers. if you want to see where the problem is with the police, it is the lawyers defending these cops that were bad. this guys had 17 incidents of police abuse against him. he should not have been on the force. they protect each other. it is called the blue shield. we all know what it means. and i have attorney general barr there is no systematic racism -- to have attorney general barr say there is no systematic racism in the united states is ridiculous. my father told a story where they would tool the guys up when they were lying, and we knew it. that means white, brown -- not

racially. white men too when they are sitting there lying. host: that is joe in maine giving us his thoughts. another person giving us his thoughts, former presidential candidate bernie sanders. [video clip] >> in my view, every police officer and a killing must be held accountable and those found guilty must be punished with the full force of law. that includes officers who stand by while these brutal acts take place. every single killing of a person or while in police custody must be investigated by the department of justice. we must create a process by which police departments look like the communities that they serve and not look like invading armies.

we need to abolish qualified so police officers are held civilly liable for abuses. prohibit the transfer of offensive military equipment to police officers. we need to strip federal funds from departments that violate civil rights. we need to provide funding to states and municipalities to create a civilian corps of unarmed first responders to supplement law enforcement. host: adding to the conversation, former vice president joe biden, in an op-ed about things he would like to see. one thing he would not see, according to his op-ed, while i do not believe federal dollars should go to police departments

turning to violence as a first resort, i do not support defund the police. i have long been a firm believer in the power of community ops outg, getting c of their cruisers and building relationships with the people and the community. i'm proposing an additional $300 million to invigorate policing community -- invigorate community policing in our country. our next caller. hello. caller: i am not abide in follower, but that is a good point -- a biden follower, but that is a good point. i think kids, it they should have an hour after school that is racial class, where a police officer comes in and talks to the class and makes them

realize, we all have red blood in our brains. we all get along. explain things like don't pick up that gun. don't pick up that knife. help your mother's out, your families out, get to know each other. if it is given by a good police officer that is more or less a teacher. put one in every school. and given to them all the way up to -- maybe have it all the way up to 10th grade, maybe -- i don't know. when they have gone through all of these classes and have a good attendance, give them a nice dal with their name stamped on it. if down the road they get in officer,they will say i'm sorry, whatever, i went to the school, here is my medal with my name on it. maybe you would be more lenient

on them. if you do not provide that metal, you skipped out -- host: where did you come up with this idea? i have come up with the idea because the kids are not getting that kind of training at home with the parents. it starts with the parents, but the parents are evidently give it tot able to the kids. the right way of life and the good things in life and what this country has available to them, come up through the ranks the right way and help our brothers and neighbors and everything else. that is where it has to start. it has to start young. it would be great if all the parents, maybe both parents work, maybe they are a single mother, there are so many things. we have to go to the police department to get tickets to know that the police were on their side. that's randy in wisconsin,

giving us thoughts this morning on reforms he would like to see. calling from california, democrat line, joseph. go ahead. america.ood morning, awould like to use compton as model for what is going on. compton does not have a police department, we have a sheriff's department. allave been double policed our lives. wake up, america. we have to stop this. we just use the sheriff's department. the sheriff's department is already here. take about it, everybody, we are being double police about -- host: are the sheriff'\abls to handle everything that needs to be done in compton? caller: yes, yes they are. it withoutan they do a police force? increase theirn

man force no problem, and the sheriff brings a more professional manner of that everyment county already has. these cities have taken on police departments after slavery. we have more people enslaved in america before the civil war. great men have died in america since the beginning here. i am not discrediting george floyd's death, but great men have been dying in america from the beginning. we are being over policed. host: ok. we will go to brian in murphy, republican line. caller: the problem is the political lies about racism, sir. they need to make it a federal crime for anybody that is racist. this needs to stop. i served twice in my nation, in the 1980's and volunteered to go back at 35 in 9/11. i love my country, i am a soldier but i am not a racist, and this has to stop.

this is ridiculous. we are the luckiest nation on god's green earth. nobody's bought it better -- got it better. that guy was talking about the sheriff. i live in a small town. the sheriffs around here, they beat up whites. they do not care. is is the leadership. the leadership has to stop. we need better leaders. just because you can be elected does not mean you are the man to lead. host: brian in north carolina. president trump yesterday meeting with african-american leaders, talking about issues of criminal justice reform and connecting that to economic growth. [video clip] >> you good on the list of criminal justice reform, and all the things we have done, opportunity zones, the best unemployment rate in the history came in, andague it will be back against him, i think it will be back a lot sooner than people think. last week was a reflection of that, the jobs numbers.

we look at all the things we have done, we have now worked on ,rison reform that's important, so many other things. but when you look at how well the black community has been doing under this administration, nobody has done anything like we've done. the big thing is criminal justice reform. i keep hearing about criminal justice reform and everyone is trying to take the credit, and that one, we will take the full credit because it could not have been done without us. i'm not sure if the previous administration tried, but they certainly couldn't get it done. the people who came into my office really, really asking very nicely for help. these are not people who are supporters of mine, but once we got a they took the full credit for themselves, and that's ok too, but we got done on criminal justice reform and all these people are element not talking about is the opportunity zones. we did that with a friend of

yours from south carolina. it was his idea and a big idea, and it has worked much better than our wireless streams -- then our wildest dreams. welcome to the capitol hill a taunus zone, where protesters gather without police. welcome to the newly named zone, where almost everything was free tuesday. free snacks, free gas masks, a free speech at the speaker's circle. anyone could say their piece. a free documentary movie, showing after dark. accordingitol hill, to no shortage of spray paint on building facades, and perhaps most important to demonstrators, the neighborhood was free of uniformed police. a new protest society has been born from the movement of bush the seattle police department out of its east precinct building. , demonstrators hung a

banner on the police station -- this space is now property of the seattle people. teenagers past the bottle on the .xit ramp for police vehicles a young man carried a long rifle down the sidewalk, despite the mayor's ban on weapons and capitol hill, which has not been clearly enforced. from columbusr ohio, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. in regards\ to the police situation. i feel like police officers like the one that assaulted mr. floyd should be held accountable. it is right there on tape. everyone can see. an investigation does not need to be done. he needs to be held accountable. worldliticians in this are always going for the minority folk. go when they get in there, they

don't do anything for the minorities or the underprivileged schools or anything like that. host: are there specific reforms you would back? caller: yes. i would like for them to put more money into the schools. the policeo like for allow officersot , go to another city, another department. in jail likebe put another criminal would be, because this was a criminal act. hyattsville,from maryland, democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. when it comes to police and the reforms that could make a change, if you look at the situation, the george oryd situation, white people

the officers, look at the backgrounds of the individual officers. that will tell you something. [inaudible] the police officer that was on the guys neck, if you look at his background, it is going to tell you something. [inaudible] a man who was pushed and fell down and hit his head? one police officer wanted to go and help him. the other stopped him. .ook at their past background [inaudible] texas, independent line. we will hear from lisa. good morning. there's been a lot of good points that i made this morning, but i have to agree with the gentleman bob, in

jacksonville, texas. first and foremost, i thank god for officers, because we need balance. but that is exactly what we need. it should start from the top up. the police should have training before they ever leave the academy. shouldd old boy system be accountable. it should be tied to the entire higher-ups when things like this happen about killing. allowed gentleman being to have various incidents and , ande recommended for them as far as this defunding the police, i believe we need funding. they need to rename that so that does not hurt the party to get those fundings. host: orlando, florida, linda.

republican line. caller: good morning. how are you? i think we really need to demilitarize our police. i mean, when i see them roll up in a tank -- really? i lived out in the country. anybody get i see out of their car. toy were going in for coffee the only convenience store within 30, 40 miles. don't understand that. i grew up in a small town. ,here's loads of small towns where i'm living right now, and i just don't understand this.

i get more respect from african-american officers if i need to call for something then i do for these good old boys. host: that's linda in florida. martin on facebook saying when it comes to ideas of reforms, saying it is not a policing problem. it is a too many laws problem. martin in greenville, north carolina says that police officers should be licensed the same as doctors, nurses, dentists, hairstylists, etc. on this topic from louise in davenport, florida, democrat line. caller: good morning. i want to make one comment about the last call. we do not need to demilitarize. our military is not there to serve against our people. i just want to make that clear. that is not what i called for. about the subject

when it first happened. i change my mind i think. i have a catch-22 for me. first of all, i think the gentleman that is a cop that neckhis knee over george's is absolutely guilty of murder and he knew what he was doing. the one standing watch looked like he was standing watch for him. i really couldn't see the other cops, but i know that if you are with somebody that kills somebody at the time of deaf and do nothing, you can be brought in on charges of murder. was whenreally got me i found out they had been on the job for four days and i got to thinking, are these guys training? son, you go to

school, study for the academy, have a great day, be good, pay attention everything and to be great out there. you know, they didn't go there to be on the job for a week and face the possibility of being in jail for 30 years. the same with the officer and george floyd. securityed together on of the same restaurant so he obviously knew he was -- knew who he was. host: thank you all for participating in this hour. we will continue talking about policing with alex vitale. a booklso an author of to talk about the police movement, potential changes to police in the united states.

later on, representative michael tex ss, republican from -- texas. dealing not only with solving medicines but funding as well. we will have a conversation with him later on. all that when "washington journal" returns. >> every saturday, starting saturday with doris kearns goodwin, author of eight histories and well-known for her work on american presidents, especially team of rivals. next saturday, as we feature new york times best-selling author david meredith. book tv all summer on c-span two. ♪ >> the president, from public affairs, available in paperback and e-book.

presents biographies of every president, organized by the ranking, by noted historians, from best to worst. and features perspectives into the lives of our nation's chief executives and leadership styles. visit our website, c-span.org /thepresident to learn more about each president and historian features, and order your copy today wherever books and e-books are sold. "washington journal" continues. host: our next guest of the morning is alex vitale, a sociology professor and the author of the book "the end of policing." thank you for joining us. guest: good morning, pedro. narrator: could you give the audience of what your view of what the police should be in current society? guest: i think it is not so much about what the police should be, it is what we should be doing

instead of policing in as many situations as possible. the problem is we have come to over rely on police to solve every social problem under the sun. it puts police in this untenable position where they are expected to be social workers, youth counselors, mental health experts,s, and housing and they can't do all of those things. to defund police isn't just about throwing out police. -- itabout throwing is about thinking of why we give these problems to police and put money back into initiatives that would lead them safer. host: what would lead you to believe that police do things outside of the purview of actually policing, which you describe? guest: up to a quarter of all witheople interacting

police have a mental health crisis. they getle call 911, an armed police response and they are not equipped to manage those calls as well as they should be managed. that is one example. we are using police in school to deal with disciplinary issues that is resulting in kids under 10 years old being put in handcuffs. in new york city, we have more nypd personnel assigned at city schools than all counselors and social workers combined. those are just misplaced priorities. narrator: you mentioned defund the police movement that has been in the news for the last couple days. can you specify what you think that means? there's a lot of definitions going around, as you know. guest: i don't think anybody planned to have a movement called defund the police or defund the police, but there has

been a movement on the ground, even before the events in minneapolis, to get communities to re-shift their funding priorities. people use language like divest from police, invest in communities, or build communities, or justice reinvestment, but all of it requires explanation and does not fit easily on a cardboard sign. what people are talking about is going in and looking closely at city budgets, and identifying spending that goes to police initiatives that would be better handled in the community. also, for some people, it means they would prefer to live in a world that does not require people with guns to maintain safety and order. i would like to live in a world like that as well. no one is talking about a situation where there is some magic switch and, prove, tomorrow there are no police. nosuch switch exists and city council will zero out the police budget in the next year.

there is intentional fear mongering out there to misrepresent what this movement is about to undermined its goals. host: is there a model in your mind of the police department in the united states when it comes to your idea police? guest: there are lots of examples of places doing some part of it. in eugene, oregon, they don't use police to go on mental health calls. people dealing with a crisis while homeless or involving substance abuse. nonprofit clinicians. and results have been good. parts of nevada, it is not perfect, but it reduces harm for sex workers and improves public health outcomes. internationally, places like portugal and europe have decriminalized all drugs.

they disband the narcotics unit, get the people out of the drug business, and turn it to public health officials. europe, they've never heard of school policing. they think we are crazy that we fill our schools with police. they have high quality counselors, afterschool programs, and they don't criminalize their children. there are a lot of examples of how to do that. my book has hundreds of footnotes with examples of studies and reports that show what we could be doing instead. host: "the end of policing," is the book we are referencing. here to take your calls. if you want to ask him questions, it is (202) 748-8001 for republicans. democrats are (202) 748-8000. independents are (202) 748-8002. if you want to tax us, you can do it at -- text us, you can do a debt (202) 748-8003. if you are law enforcement and you want to give us a call,

(202) 748-8003 that you can call there too. house democrats unveiling a list of proposals when it comes to efforts of reforms. senate republicans working on the same legislative effort. do you think there is something there as far as offering these reforms? guest: i think there is something there. it is important to keep in mind policing is almost an entirely local affair in this process will have to get solved in the local budget process. that is what is happening around the country, but at the federal level, there is stuff the federal government can do. harm are important reduction elements to the bills under consideration now, things like eliminating no knock raids and ending the use of chokeholds , but there is a lot of what i think are more superficial procedural reforms that are not really going to fix police. we have had five to six years of the obama administration, local mayors telling us they will fix policing by giving them implicit

bias training and having police community in counter sessions, and minneapolis adapted -- adopted almost all of this, and it didn't make a difference. if we want to reduce the burden of policing on communities of color, we need to get them resources, reduce public safety and other ways that does not rely on people with guns. that is what is at the heart of the defined movement. host: on the house democrats side, some of those prohibiting improves, and investigations of the federal level. our guest mentioned some of those elements. as far as on the federal level, is there something to a more investigative nature on investigating these types of crimes, the causes, and then offering remedy to that? guest: i'm not enthusiastic about more federal investigations. even under the obama

administration, when the investigations became common, we have little to show for it. there is a lot of research to show they were not effective. we have 18,000 independent police departments in this country. you just can't investigate them all. we really need much more robust reforms, and there is a bill under development that i have seen draft language for that talks about reducing federal subsidies for hiring more police and building more prisons, and instead putting that money into exactly the kinds of community identified specific strategies for increasing public safety. things like credible messenger programs to reduce violence, and better funding for community-based mental health services. host: you talked about other things police have to do on a day-to-day basis. what is your belief on the core function of police? of the day, end

what should they just be doing? guest: it's important to keep in rind -- keep in mind that police are violence workers. that is what distinguishes them from other sectors of government. when we try to imagine then we will try to turn them into social workers or community outreach workers, we are misunderstanding the nature of the job. because they are violence workers and because there is a long history of racial discrimination within policing, we should try to use policing as a tool of last resort. even when we may have evidence of their effectiveness, it comes with huge collateral consequences of violence, racial discrimination, and driving more people into a system of mass incarceration. are the things we need violence workers? certainly there are today. i don't know what that would look like at the end of a process of trying to put in place real alternatives.

we have strategies for dealing with youth violence. we have strategies for reducing sexual assaults, or reducing the number of burglaries. i think it is time we give those strategies a try as we balance the need for those violent interventions with the ability of communities to come up with better, less violent options. host: our first call for alex vitale is from illinois. patrick, democrats line. go ahead with your question or comment. guest: my comment -- caller: thank you, alex. my comment is that the police are officers of the court. stemsroblem that we have all the way up to the supreme court. the supreme court passes laws to officers topolice -- they are passing laws to allow them to act like this and get away with this. on a local level, the court systems are letting them i get

to -- letting them get away with it too. it is a problem all the way up to the supreme court. that is my comment. thank you. guest: it is certainly true that the courts have given the police incredible latitude in the use of force. supreme court rulings have allowed police officers to use deadly force based on sometimes flimsy basis. that is one of the concerns i have with some of the procedural reforms being proposed right now is that i don't think we can get courts to really enforce them, because prosecutors and judges have an over back -- have bent over backwards to allow police to operationalize this kind of force. host: new york, republican line, we hear from al. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a question for mr. vitale. thank you for being on. host: you'll have to stop

listening to the tv, al. caller: i want to ask you a question as a social worker. you answered most of my questions already and i have one more. , what floyd did not die would be the changes proposed to fix these things? guest: great. thatis is not a movement fell out of the sky when mr. floyd was killed. it was a movement that was already percolating, kind of under the media radar, all across the country. there are dozens of cities that have had campaign underway to shift funding from jail, youth lockups, and police into community identified needs. they closed the workhouse campaign in st. louis -- campaign, and st. louis is trying to redirect funding from a horrible jail there to youth

programs and mental health services. folks in salinas, california push back against hiring school police and asked that money be put into community health needs like drug treatment services. this is a movement that was already underway and will continue, regardless of the events of minneapolis. host: i suppose you have heard this question, if some of these reforms you advocate for and others were to take place at the end of today, someone wants to feel safe where they live, how would you address those concerns? caller: the whole drive -- guest: the whole drive of this movement is about increasing public safety. the problem is, in too many communities in the united states, people all don't think police are the best source of safety. for many of them, they see the police as a force of on safety. we have a broad problem in so many communities where people don't call police because they feel that will make their situation worse.

yes, weave relied -- have relied on policing to maintain a kind of order, but this assumes that is the only possible way to do that. that just isn't the case. process abouta identifying specific things police do now that can be done better by someone else. often, more cheaply. think the events surrounding this time, do you think this will really enact some of those changes, or do you see -- have you seen instances in the past where people talked about these issues but they went by the wayside? guest: we are already seeing changes happening. the mayor of los angeles pledges to shift 150 million dollars from policing to community identified needs. minneapolis is doing a total rethink on the footprint of policing in consultation with communities, which i think is the right way to go. san francisco and new york also

contemplating major funds -- shifting of funds from policing. this is happening. people are turning up by the hundreds. there are budget hearings across the country to demand a rethink on this. i think that will just continue. host: the minneapolis situation, in news yesterday, involved the pullout from the union. in the wall street journal, they say police unions are part of the problem. with that be part of your contention? caller: they are part of the problem. i do not think the solution is to break unions. i am a unionist myself and i'm not in the business of breaking unions. i think we need to ask tough questions about the politics that goes along with their endorsements and campaign contributions. for too long politicians who claim to be concerned about community safety issues and police accountability have taken that money, without considering what the implications are, and in the last week, dozens of

politicians across the country have gone back through their campaign records and have pulled out the money they have received from police unions and turned it over to mutual aid projects. they are rejecting that political relationship with unions who really don't have the public interest at heart in the ways they claim to. host: a member of law enforcement in stafford, virginia. stephen, you are on with our guest. go ahead. caller: i appreciate you taking my call. i have been in law enforcement for 11 years, and prior to that was in the military for seven. as i've listened to this conversation go on not only louisville last -- not only the last couple weeks but what i found was that the voice is missing is the voice of law enforcement officers. -- rank and file law enforcement officers. there are plenty of academic speaking on the subject, planning of police executives

and politicians on the left and right. what is getting lost is the number of law enforcement officers who, rank and file law enforcement officers who also agree that the police department does not need to be, for most cases, militarized to the level it is, and that there are options to improve police in public communication and interactions. host: hold on a second for us, stephen. mr. vitali, do you want to ask our guest a question on that? guest: i want to ask whether or not he things the fraternal order of police and other unions that represent rank-and-file police officers really speak for those officers accurately? that's a difficult question to answer. only the unions can be an issue but i also think generally speaking that there is and filece among rank

officers to speak out, based on appearing, to the system, as a whole to be against the system. host: when it comes then to their rank and file, you mentioned better ways to use that. you have heard probably suggestions over the last couple days. what do you think of those? do you offer any comment on a battery way to use rank-and-file police -- better way to use rank-and-file police? caller: what i would like to see, and i either don't have the bandwidth or knowledge to do something like this, is i would like to see a community -- see in communities across the country, an organization separate from police unions and separate from groups that have grants from the department of justice and things of that nature to give voice to these police officers and to allow them to participate in the discussions. when the minneapolis city -- takes their vote

and has their discussion, and i apologize if this has already happened because i haven't been able to follow it quite that closely, on defunding the department there, i think having the opportunity to have this voice of rank-and-file officers that think we can do better involved is important. host: that is stephen who identifies as a member of law enforcement in stafford, virginia. what type of law enforcement do you do, stephen if you want to add it? caller: i would actually rather not. host: we will leave it there. stephen, thank you for the call. do you have anything to add? guest: i think that was illustrative. there are rank-and-file members deeply frustrated with the direction of policing, and there are groups like the law projectent action that have been in the media and represent those views yet we have officers continually voting

for the leadership of these unions who take a very different position in, really spouting a lot of toxic political ideas, some of which i think are out light -- outright racist. so we don't know who is a viable partner in this conversation. while there are people that one perform, they are intimidated. ofme, that is more evidence how broken this institution is. host: from constance in virginia, democrats line, you are on with our guest. caller: good morning. about policing, we have to go back to the whole idea of policing and where it started. it started with slavery, where slave masters wanted to control their cattle property, so-called, by any means necessary. systematicallylt

in the system from that day forward. even in the constitution itself where blacks were considered three quarters of a human being. animals with at as no control over our faculties, and that has not changed. you look atly, if all or most of the laws that have put into place -- have been put into place, is to control by any means necessary. peopleds and hearts of have to change for this to change. host: ok. constance in virginia. vitale,li, go ahead -- go ahead. caller: i talked about this in the book. it is also about colonialism and the attempted extermination of indigenous populations by groups like texas rangers. but especially in the northern

cities, it is about labor control. policing is created in the early 19th century to manage the influx of working-class immigrants and shape them into an industrial workforce. there were similar dynamics underway in europe. policing unable systems of exploitation. that is why we should have deep skepticism about the decision of politicians to turn more and more problems over to them to manage. host: tell our viewers about the program at brooklyn college, the policing and social justice project. caller: the project is an -- guest: the project is an independently grant funded project that works on developing alternatives to policing. in new york, we is -- we recently issued a problem with anti-gang in new york. the use of secret databases and conspiracy cases that have led

to hundreds of thousands of young people being needlessly criminalized instead of being helped through targeted youth intervention programs that deal with past traumas, that try to interrupt the cycle of violence at the interpersonal level and try to direct kids onto a more positive, prosocial path. the: steve in arizona, republican line, you're next. good morning. .aller: greetings pedro and al i hope i can call you al. jumper.arty i turned from democrat to republican and i will stay. my comment is about distrust in america. americansunt of distrust government and the police alike, even though most cops are good. most politicians, that is up to the people's opinion. looking back at how one guy, by his own actions, caused so much

turmoil in america, and it has been going on for weeks now, one guy. this shows you how easily americans are prodded into revolt. this is a country that was built on revolt, for crying out loud. it seems the colonial spirit of patriotism has never gone away. there are still a lot of true, blue americans who do not feel that what is going on is right. what is going on is wrong and has been for a long time. the reason this madness is breaking out in american streets is it is a culmination of everything. we are tired of it all, government. am i in agreement? ibelieve i am in -- i believe am. host: ok. we will let our guest answer that. guest: there is a deep frustration with the leadership of both political parties. we are failing to address this problem head-on.

allowed mass homelessness to be entrenched in our society, defunded health services, especially mental health services, and then turned it to police to manage. when police do something wrong, trot out a set of superficial reforms. i also think the george floyd incident is not the cause of this. it is the trigger. at the look back disruptions, uprisings, writing of the 1960's, it was often triggered by policing, but today, we don't understand that as being just about policing. it is about a generational frustration with the direction of the country on the is to of race really -- on the issue of race relations. i think we are facing a similar crisis today and it extends to not just a broad condemnation of the failure to address racism but the inability of both parties to address the direction of the economy, failing of the

environment. there are a lot of problems at stake here. from from idaho, mark there. he identifies as a member of law enforcement. go ahead. caller: thanks for this great conversation. inas in law enforcement early to mid 90's -- in the early to mid 1990's. had a previous color that suggested police officers should be licensed. i agree with -- you had a previous caller that suggested police officers should be licensed. i agree with that. there are bad police officers out there and bad nurses. we have seen news reports of nurses killing their patients, so licensing them might not be a bad thing. what i'm calling them about is, about 1994, under the clinton administration under the

democrats, i was rather a small town police officer. to are forced to go training session where -- and it was all about how to stop anyone, at any time, and how to basically fake probable cause. to do it. my hand and, by the way, the instructor had his head shaved, was in lack military fatigues, the boots and everything, and we were all in our regular, normal police uniforms. i raised my hand and said " aren't we violating basic constitutional rights of the citizens by doing this?" he slammed his fist down the podium and said "do you want to be a cop or do you want to be a lawyer?" i got up and walked out of the room because i said i don't want to be either one right now. host: mark, thanks for sharing

that. mr. vitale? guest: we have a real problem with police training in the united states, this killology mindset that says every moment could be your last and if you don't shoot first, you will end up in a box. lot of this has led to a needless deaths, for both the public and law enforcement. we see law enforcement put into these situation like no knock raids in the middle of the night, but people think their home is being invaded and shoot back. this endangers police lives as well. we have to completely dial back not just the military equipment but the military mindset. host: when you say military equipment, what do you mean? guest: the use of these armored personnel carriers.

the fact that trump administration is authorizing transfer of bayonets and grenade launchers to the local police departments. overusethe misuse and of teargas just in the last two weeks. i think this is completely inappropriate for civilian police. illegalally would be for our military to use in this way. it would be a violation of international law. host: the transfer of military equipment to the local police forces not just a trump administration program but it has existed for a while. guest: it has existed for a while. it began in the clinton administration. i only mention that because the obama administration tried to dial its back and restricted some of the equipment that could be transferred. the trump administration lifted those restrictions. host: one of the topics that have emerged from this kind of discussion we have is the use of body cameras. overall, how would you rate their effectiveness? guest: not very well am afraid.

it's clear when we look around the country, the anger at police, the body camera has not showed. p research shows that body -- p researcht those body cameras are not helping. it is -- this is another bill where we were sold a false bill of goods. host: this is anthony from minnesota and identifies as law enforcement. go ahead. caller: i'm actually a student at a criminal justice program. i want to mention the number of hours required for law enforcement officers not only in mental health but other sectors is not enough. not enough to meet what the community needs. another thing i want to touch on is the number of police officers that are armed with firearms far

exceeds what is needed in the community. whereas there should be a special tier of law enforcement where some specialists are, within shoplifting, theft, and others are burglary and other areas where police officers should be in the aggressive form of carrying firearms. another thing i want to mention is that they should be required to live within the communities and higher education should be pushed on all officers. i feel that is the recruitment of minorities lapse. one key point i want to point out is that federal agencies, not only the fbi but others, says fbi -- says it's a premises high in these agencies were so you get these tactics where if you give someone with a criminal background, -- if you give someone a criminal background, that limits their success.

tot limits their ability seek higher education and other services that would be essential to them to survive, moving forward. lastly, the community engagement with citizens. as a student, where i've said that would help if officers took three to five hours per week to engage with citizens, whether it is plain basketball or attending meetings, that would help because you would be able to create a relationship. would allow for that engagement. the pushback i get from my professors is that, where does the money come from? what are officers being paid out of? thereyou put a lot out for our guest so we will let him respond. guest: i obviously can't address all of those suggestions. many of these are included in the obama task force on 20% tree policing report. most of them have absolutely no evidence for them.

diversifying police, having them live in the community, doing can more -- doing more community outreach, turning police into mental health and social workers. these things don't work. what we need to do is reduce the footprint of policing. instead of turning police into social workers and community organizers, we need to hire more social workers and community organizers. that is really the only way we will get out of this problem. host: herschel in georgia, cedartown, on the independent line. caller: yes. camerase that the body for the police to work. the evidence is in front of everybody that uses them. don't like the police need to be defunded in any way. if anything else, hire more. a police officer is a person who has to come home and go too.

they have to put up a so many things. just watching the rides, being spit on and everything else, it is terrible but they are -- ri ots, being spit on and everything else, it is terrible but let them do their job. that ended officer mr. floyd's life so prosecute him to the end of -- full extent of the law. better,eed to get along but we have to have police, and were always gonna have to have police. or crime will be rampant everywhere. i don't feel like defunding them in any way. i think ira moore. host: thanks, -- i think hire more. host: thank, caller. caller: there are many people -- guest: there are many people

that believe that the only way to reduce -- increased public safety is through arrests, intimidation, and putting people in cages. this is an ideology. and not true. this is deeply conservative and influenced by unconscious or conscious racism. canidea that those people only be effected through threats, violence, or coercion. this is a deeply problematic world view, this thin blue line idea. this is not about demonizing individual officers. i have been a police scholar for over 20 years and have worked with police all over the world. i know police day in and day out are mostly trying to help people in a very difficult job in some cases, but they are the wrong tool. when people tell us they need more police, they are saying we

need more guns, more handcuffs, more arrests to manage our problems. this is just going to make racing class and inequality in the united states worse. host: in pennsylvania, democrat line, darris, go ahead. caller: i wanted to make a comment about the problems we have. years ago, a retired police chief told me the police were there to protect the rich. all of the problems that we are having is intentional. in the confusion is intentional. we attack each other. i know a person in the corporate world, years ago, told me -- asked me a few questions. when i finished, she told me about myself. what i'm saying is that, when they hire these racist, bigoted policeman, they are doing it intentionally to keep confusion going.

the united states says they're the greatest country, the inhest country, the best everything, education, religion, and if all of that -- out of all the strength they have, if they don't eliminate the problems, what will? guest: i will happily leave that there is well. host: what are you looking for over the next few weeks when it comes to this topic? guest: we are in budget season, in many cities across the country. i am looking at ways people are turning out to those local counsel budget hearings and lobbing their councilmembers. i'm happy to say i'm getting phone calls from mayors and city councils from around the country asking for help to try to figure this out, to identify those things we have turned over to police that could be better handled in other ways. it is an exciting moment and a little overwhelming. host: our guest not only teaches

at brooklyn college but is the officer of -- author of "and of policing." -- end of policing." thank you for your time today, alex vitale. for the next 20 minutes or so, we will get your thoughts on the top public policy issue. it could be regarding george floyd, economics, covid-19. you tell us what your top issue is. republicans, (202) 748-8001, democrats, (202) 748-8000, independents, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when "washington journal" continues. john charles fremont brought the pacific coast into the united states. at the beginning of the story, havenited states didn't the pacific coast. california belonged to mexico. fremont encouraged the american settlement of oregon and took part in the american conquest of

california, just in time for the goldrush. he did play a real role in changing the map of the united states. book,phen inskeep on his how jesse and john fremont mapped the west, invented celebrity, and help caused the civil war. sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q and da. "washington journal" continues. host: on the issue of your top public policy issue, you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. post on twitter as well. this coming in from the labor department. 1.5 4 million americans filed for unemployment benefits in the week ending june the sixth. below economist expectations for 1.55 million american file claims. decelerated for

the 10 consecutive weeks. 1.89 7 million -- 1.897 million. when it comes to the topic of protests and events you can see across the nation, another one planned for washington, d.c. the washington post saying the family of george floyd was killed in the custody of minneapolis police rest light -- police last night. the application describes plans for 1000 buses, a line of jumbotron's, and a mass procession from the lincoln memorial, martin luther king memorial, submitted on friday, the day after out sharpton announced plans for the march. we hear from mike first on the top public policy issue segment. miami, florida, independent line.

caller: how are you this morning? host: i'm fine. go ahead. caller: i listened to your previous guest talking about his ideology. i know there is ideology in place now and he has an alternative one that we don't know if it will work or not. we had a community organizer for president, and he didn't get anything organized. now, disorganization from policies he put in place. ideology, ibout searched every community in this country to start gofundme pages for the police departments they live in, because the defunding of the police is inevitable. they don't have any money anyway. they want to force their ideology into play. they want to fund it with money for the police? ok, we will find the police. host: charles is in new york, democrats line. caller: hello, pedro, good

morning. i would like to make two comments. -- once toause." to defund the police apartment by $1 billion. host: go ahead, you are on. you will have to stop listening to the television and keep the conversation on the phone please. cortez wants to defund the new york police department, by $1 billion. i would like to know, with the budget, if she wants to defund the police department by $1 billion. number two, years ago, they tried to make or create racial quotient test that would show what the racial quote and is whether it is racist, bigoted, or what have you.

i don't know what happened to that program. host: our next caller. good morning. beenr: my concern, having a lifelong republican, and the republican party on which it was founded is not the republican party we know today. the republican party that we that areis the party the scalawags, pauly wags, and what were considered the forerunner of the klan. the party needs to drop the name republican and call themselves what they had become. anybody who is a lifelong republican, when you reach my age, and i'm a senior, and my family has longevity in founding the republican party in the state. that an absolute insult what is in the white house, what is sitting there in the senate, calling itself a republican party. it is abomination. host: we will hear from sabrina

in north carolina. democrats line. caller: hi. my biggest policy issue right now, especially with covid-19, is how we are addressing global poverty. coronavirus is hitting those in impoverished nations harder, and the united states need to focus on that as well as their domestic response to coronavirus. host: that a sabrina in north carolina. at 9:00 this morning, the house will come in for a session. from that, we will go to our next guest, but to give you a warning of that, we will take calls until then. please call if you would like to talk on your top public policy issue. we will talking about legislation working in the senate, particularly with the deal for national parks. joining us for that discussion is a reporter for congress. good morning. guest: good morning. host: talk about the effort in the senate, the great outdoors act. guest: that's right.

this is being touted as what will be -- should have passed, one of the most sweeping public conservation packages in recent history. it is a bill that has two parts. the first bill would move funding for the land and conservation fund which funds maintenance at national parks and public land. it would move that funding out of the appropriations process, guaranteeing author ration of $900 million per year, permanent funding for the land and water conservation fund. for the first time since the program was created in 1965. meanwhile, it would make a dent in the nearly $20 billion backlog of deferred maintenance projects, parks and public lands, managed by the federal government across the united states. host: what is driving the work on this bill now? citic's --political

cynics say this is section two of -- two have been the republican leaders in this effort and are facing formidable democratic challengers for their reelection bids in november. believes thisl would be a good selling point for them, for their constituents and voters on the campaign trail. it is also a chance for senate republicans to show that they are legislating, even in the midst of a global pandemic, in the midst of social unrest, as the country reckons with race and the history of racism in america. at the same time, it is a winter democrat. this is a truly bipartisan bill. if anything, there will be more democrats supporting this then republicans. while you see democrats going to the floor in large numbers in the past few days, not talking about this bill, they are doing

nothing to stop it in its tracks , saying at the end of the day they would be more than happy to on conservations over to the house. i should also say the other thing going that president trump intoises to spell it -- sign it into law. the other thing important for -- important to remember about the bill is that none of the funding going to the landing conservation fund is paid for directly from taxpayer dollars. it is taking the revenue from offshore oil and gas leasing, and moving that revenue directly to this fund. , a have a national park historic battleground that is managed by the federal government. you have a park.

whereve a tract of land you can go skiing, where you can climb a mountain, where you can visit a pond with your family. really anything you can think of where you can go outside, be in nature, not have to pay to be there, that is managed by the federal government. that is the money -- those are the kinds of places the money is going for. right now, there is not enough money to do maintenance on some of these lands. some of these lands are not safe anymore for people to visit. money going enough towards upkeep and maintenance to protect the wildlife that is there, to protect some of the wildlife species, the animals and plants there. there is a lot of places right now that are in disrepair.

the other thing these bill backers are talking about is, if you have more land available to the public, if you are putting money toward upkeep and maintenance, and restoration of these areas for public use, you are creating jobs. when you create those jobs, you add to the economy, especially in a pandemic right now where the unemployment rate is above 13%. maybe even more, not accounting for so many other unreported job losses. the other thing people are talking about is the more access people have to public lands and national parks, that will drive tourism and filter through the local economy. in addition to a nice thing to do for the environment, there is also an economic factor that people are talking about that they think is really important to underscore. host: when is the final vote expected? guest: the final vote is

expected early next week. they will finish debating today perhaps. they will be in session tomorrow to take a vote, but they expect to wrap up monday or tuesday of next week. host: emma dumain, who reports at end and other issues, news -- e&e news. host: thank you for explaining this. guest: thank you for having me on to do it. be joined by michael burgess of texas but your top issue until then. michaela, go ahead. caller: thanks for having me and it is a pleasure to be here today. i'mublic policy issue that currently worried about is our reactions. even a few months ago, no one knew how to react. there have been so many restrictions spanning the 50 states. even countries throughout the world. no one knew how to react to

this thing that affected millions of people. with our world so interconnected, i'm worried that a pandemic on the scale such as covid is likely to happen in the future. i don't think we are prepared enough if it happens again. i think we need the resources we need to battle a pandemic on this scale. host: grayson, in fairfax, virginia. hello. caller: hi. my top public policy issue is our lack of funding for foreign aid, and it being less than 1% of our total budget. increase our international affairs budget, that will help our economy by pulling people out of extreme poverty, who will then be consumers for american products, and also make a safer -- make our military's job safer because

those people are out of extreme poverty and out of more economic opportunity. it is harder -- it would be harder for terrorists to recruit, and the rich of the places are, the safer they are. host: that is our caller from fairfax, virginia. public policy issues, at least your top one, is a topic you can comment on if you wish. (202) 748-8000 for -- (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, and independents, (202) 748-8002 . a couple posts from the washington post. a letter wednesday from a white house lawyer arrived two weeks before the room it happened. white house member -- memoir is to go on sale. the letter says bolton would be provided with the redacted manuscript by june 19, four days before the book is to go on sale. bolton's lawyer said he is

compiled with national security requirements and expect this book will be available to the public on june the 23rd. the books publisher has already shipped copies to where houses across the country. from the wall street journal this morning, when it comes to the work of the needy, the u.s. striked two aircraft groups to guard against another coronavirus outbreak has china's military steps of this activity with deployments. read more about that in the wall street journal. jacksonville beach, florida. independent line. caller:yes, -- yes, hi. with regard to defunding, your colors could show more responsibility in discussing this topic seriously. i think what is clear about this

issue is that people are asking that social problems be handled by entities other than the police. that people are asking demilitarization occur. that encompasses all defunding. pretty straightforward, achievable. host: do you think it would work? well, for example, do i ofnk the social problem mental disabilities should be handled by nonpolice entities? yeah. that's pretty obvious. so you have to go down the list. the police agenda has been expanded beyond all reason because politicians are being disinclined to appropriately handle these issues.

it's really straightforward and let's solve the problem and be responsible about it. host: we hear from greenville, tennessee, republican line. caller: how are you? host: fine. you are on. go ahead. caller: my beef right now is that republicans are always being called racists. what about the democrats? they are the ones that started the kkk. they are the ones that started abortions in black communities to promote genocide, to get rid of the black community. they are the ones that constantly push the blacks down. they do not try to integrate. host: how does that apply to the topic of police violence which has been the discussion over the last couple weeks? caller: it applies because our police department is being called racist, and they are not. they are trying to keep our country safe.

all they do is get vilified. the ones they should be mad at the democrats. these are democratic cities, democratic states. the governors and the mayors need to step up. host: ok. we will hear from breanna in gilroy, california. democrats line. and we are just about to go to the house in a little bit so breanna, go ahead with your comment. caller: thank you for having me. my top public policy concern has theo with the 22% cut current administration proposed for fiscal year 2021 for the international affairs budget. year 2020, the international affairs budget only makes up less than 1% of the overall budget, and it has shown that foreign aid and the reduction of global policy has a positive impact on the economy and national security, and global health. host: how did you become so

interested in the international affairs budget? a project supporter, which is an organization that works toward global poverty reduction, and an international affairs student. host: that's breanna in gill for -- in gilroy, california. top public policy issues is what we have been taking. we appreciate the input we are getting. just before the house goes to the session, here is what is on plan. after they go at about 9:00, we will hear from burgess, a medical doctor, republican from texas. he will join us to talk about issues talking about covid-19. that conversation roughly taking place around 9:00 after the house finishes its session. then, we will go to that conversation. a host of hearings related on covid-19 and other topics that you might want to pick up if you want to. go to the website, c-span.org.