to examine the coronavirus response and possible racial inequities in education, health care and the workforce. live coverage begins at noon eastern on c-span, online at www.c-span.org or listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> our first of two guests this morning is kimberly wehle, a law professor and cbs news legal analyst. she is author of the book what you need to know about voting. this is a user's manual for voting in america. why did you think americans needed that in 2020? guest: only one third of s can name all three branches of government. i wrote a book about the constitution. by the time i finished that book, i realized that for myself the importance of voting as the

means by which people self govern. it's a little but assumed in this country that not enough people vote. that's consistent with what people want, the numbers are low. next stepthis was the in my quest to expand civic literary -- literacy. november ist important for a lot of reasons, not just who gets what jobs from a political standpoint. what is the future of the kind of government we are going to have. that's on the ballot in november. population's age cast a vote in 2016. host: what do you say to the people who think their vote doesn't matter? guest: than the russians wouldn't be trying to try so hard and other countries to interfere in the process. that speaks for itself with all

the trauma we've seen. that's ongoing. it was just demonstrated. foreign policy is important. bush won the presidency by 500 votes in the state of florida. you could probably name 537 people. piece is about the privilege and honor and respect for american democracy. there are so many places in the world where people, even if there is a pretense of democracy, there is no rule of law. if you have money and access. in america, that's not the case. people have legitimate complaints. we do have something approaching liberty and it's a way to preserve that at the ballot box.

i encourage people to treat voting like rushing your teeth or having your cup of coffee or giving your kids the flu shot. anything that matters in your life, it is that vital. think americans could take back democracy and drawn out the special interests, the dark money that is distorting the electoral process. -- it's like taking your vitamins in the morning. voting is that important. host: if you have a question about voting, whether it's the mechanics of voting, voter suppression, voter fraud, now would be a good time to call in and asked those questions. the book is what you need to know about voting. republicans, (202) 748-8000.

democrats, (202) 748-8001. independent voters, (202) --8-8002 we are keeping haveonstitution does not anything about voting. it can be protected and enhanced. i was surprised by a number of things. the supreme court has recognized a constitutional right to vote. it is pivotal on all of the rights. we talk about good judging and

bad judging and if there is something expressed in the constitution or statute or judges are making thing up. the right to vote shows there is a lot of ambiguity in the constitution. otherwise, we wouldn't have a representative democracy. there are six different amendments that mention it. originally, the only people who could vote or white male landowners. wealthy white males were the only ones who were allowed to vote. int tent of who could come was expanded to lower income white males, then to formally enslaved people. it wasn't until the early 20's when women were added to the tent. in it you are not have to demonstrate your a systemto vote versus

where you are born in and you get your id card in your registered to vote. you have to decide to get out. we have this constant tension about who is sitting at the table for voting. we had the voting rights act of the 1960's. african-americans were legally allowed to vote, there were things done to keep them from the polls. there were poll taxes or literacy tests. this debate is still happening in america. my wish is to take one thing off the table for americans to be divided about. this is really government by the people, not democrats or republicans. neighbors, our friends, our colleagues, this is how we keep government small enough that tyranny doesn't take over. this is what the framers were worried about.

i would like to one day doing edit to the book where i don't need to have that. we understand that by allowing each other access to the ballot, we minimize fraud which is virtually nonexistent. access, citizens decide the government rather than some other force like corporate money. it's not as interested in our children and our concerns as the others are. do you think it should be an opt out system question mark should voting be mandatory? should there be mandatory voting? like inandatory voting the numbers are in the 90's in terms of participation. votingople know they are

every cycle, one of the critiques in my argument is people are informed. we don't want people going to the polls and just winging it. meansr participation greater engagement. in us trillion, it's a party. it's a saturday. it becomes a celebration of the country, i like to see that. spirit ofarian america is not penalized by participation. out of the cursed be a national penalty for not voting. power toess has the pass national legislation. why not give people a tax credit for participating?

$50 off your tax bill if you go to the polls. energy,reate positive it's just a precious thing. when i wrote my first book, the constitution is a piece of paper. enforcement -- enforce it, it loses power. that's a dark day for america. host: president trump helped us out with this section, he was talking about voting issues on his twitter page. storyked to a bright part where thert story attorney general said this opens the flood -- floodgate for fraud. we followed up on the link to that story. i wonder your reaction.

guest: that's not consistent with evident. -- evidence. voting as a see political issue. this is not political. , one billionne ballots were looked at. 31 had examples of voter fraud. five states including republican useing utah exclusively mail elections. there is not widespread voter fraud. it increased participation on both sides of the aisle. it did not benefit democrats or republicans. , that are more shot in could be all duly -- elderly, and expanded and strengthened

that voice in government as much as it does the other side of the political spectrum. it's unfortunate that the notionnt is touting this that people should stay home from the polls. that is anti-democratic. , the problem is without the political energy and focus, states to have the funding they need. states handle voting. it hinges on your state and where you live. how easy it is to register, how easy it is to vote, how well trained your poll workers are, states are struggling now financially because of covid. they have to slice up a pipe. the federal government should

make elections go smoothly. the amount of money should before elections. the federal government should support it. every american should be able to it in a way that is secure. scientists andch experts in this country that know how to do things in a way that are secure. there's no reason that can't be brought to bear. the answer isn't to stay home or make it harder for people. the answer is used to restore's is -- resources to make sure every american votes and that is free of fraud. our guest is the author of what you need to know about voting and why. is that a puppy in the background? guest: yes.

usually my kids keep her quiet. plenty of viewers want to join the conversation. judy is in kentucky. good morning. caller: good morning. host: you are on with kimberly wehle. caller: like i was telling my president trump is doing whatever it takes to win the election. he is going to divide the country. he doesn't have any experience. around andhe turns what keeps him going and shows person is, it's

like fourth grade level. host: that was jimmy in kentucky. we saw his tweet already this morning. i wonder if you might explain what you were looking at when you wrote it. this is what to watch for. ways thatre are keeping people from the polls could hurt candidates that are struggling. .resident trump is losing dead due tole are covid. rallies, the scientists tell us how to stay on top of the virus. elections,y to win circumstance would be to have

few people turn out. i want to point to highlight another thing the color mentioned. -- caller mentioned. thehe feels about legitimacy of the presidential election. it's not just president trump on the ballot in the fall. there are a lot of people in the town ballot. it goes all the way down to your local officials. the country has had multiple traumas in the past few months. amendmentthe first protests. sheriff's ons, the the ballot. sheriff is on the ballot. if you want to see police reform, vote. you can vote have a different person with a different approach

to policing. maybe that is one way to see voting is less divisive. schools,mmunities, our we have to look at each other. aside,sidential campaign you care about your community. vote down ballot. websites, get a ballot produced, the website will give you the names. it's very easy with technology to register. i encourage everybody to register right now. some people have to show up at the polls. enlargings of gone to voting because of covid. you need to register soon to vote by mail.

aboutint is if you care your community and your everyday lives, do this for yourself. find out about the people on your ballot in your community and your state. do the research and participate in democracy. take your democracy back. polarized, we can unify around that central concept. the revolutionaries fought and died for that. we can elect our own officials. host: john is up early in california. caller: good morning. i would like to agree with you on the $50. i think that's a great idea. more people would fill a their tax returns. that's a dear. i disagree with you on the mail-in ballots.

invited to as party where we were going to , specifically in the latino community. there were union people there. there were a lot of people there. forms, we weren organized. people for absentee ballots. we only have about 10,000 voters. a couple hundred would vote absentee. vote absentee. what happened to me was we went out and registered people. wen the ballots came out, gave them sheets for people to fill out. they were uninformed voters. the people that didn't want to fill out the ballots, we took them back from them.

, wee were three candidates had the one candidate we like and we would only vote for one. to me, there is extreme possibility of huge fraud with the mail-in ballot. i don't trust the vote in my town. the vote is 3000 absentee ballots. i don't know where they are coming from. we are electing some really bad councilmen. i think you are incorrect on the absentee ballots. there will be huge fraud. john forwant to thank only inicipation, not the democracy, but asking people to get registered. there are a number of things he said. registering and filling in

voting are two different things. you have to register and you have to vote. there are registered voters who don't bother filling up ballots read -- ballots. it's very piece is important. i can't speak to the election he is talking about. there are 50 different state systems, or are thousands precinct by precinct. they could streamline some of these things. confirmingds were that there is no fraud. includingr study, worked on by both the trump they havetion and come up short. empirically, people look for it

and have not found. that's different from negligence, lack of training, not enough people on the ground. some stuff falls through the cracks because there isn't the resources and the training. most coworkers are seasonal. a lot of them are elderly. the voting system changes depending on where you are. they can change from one election to another. there needs to be a lot of experience to do this well. i want to thank our people who are contributing. they're just isn't the support there. the other two points i want to reportt is important to confirmed signatures. there are handwriting experts and certification processes that need to happen. with absentee ballots, they are encoded.

we are in a pandemic. given that there is an infinitesimal evidence of fraud, there is very little evidence of voter fraud. timeline should be allowing americans to participate in their democracy. means alternative disenfranchising americans, moving forward with something that is not democracy. government is much more important than allowing others to decide our democracy in the fall. the alternative will not be what we've enjoyed her 230 years. that worries me. we have had democracies like turkey go to authoritarianism. there is nothing that preserves democracy in stone.

it is vulnerable. the only way to protect it is to vote. if we have to do it through the mail, i think there is support .or that effort need to be resources and volunteers to make sure there are as little mistakes as possible. on 8:30.are coming up we have half an hour left with our guest kimberly wehle. reason behind allowing each state to come up with their own or registration standards, voting systems? would you support a national standard? guest: it's hard to remember. when the constitution was ratified, there was concern about the federal government

gobbling up states. people were americans. they were virginians and new yorkers. about largerried states becoming more important in the national government. allowing the states to handle the process was a compromise. to do we get the government preserve our autonomy? protecting and keeping government small enough that people still decide their own government. it's important to protect that. as far as what the federal on, i thinkinges the federal government should do more. moneyshould be financial to the states. issue, climate change, immigration, this is irrelevant if we don't have free

and fair elections. the federal government can streamline the ballot. in canada, every person sees the same ballot format over and over. it's a black background with a white circle. in our country, the ballots are different wherever you go. it's very confusing. people get disenfranchised because the ballots are made out a certain way. what americans will see every time they vote. something as basic as that can make it easier for people to vote, it's that is confusing. take one thing off the table for americans to be divided over. this is not something we should be divided over. leads to more

divisions among each other and they corrode democracy from the inside. .ongress could do more message.o from a text what about ranked choice voting's? -- voting? erest: i'm glad your text breath that a. this can be fixed without trashing the system. choosechoice voting, we democrat or republican. a lot of scholars and politicians will say part of the problem is the two choice system. y.s either x or ranked choice puts a bunch of people on the ballot and you get to write the ones you want. votes,er 4 gets no

number 5 goes up. votes andbipartisan allows people to vote for their favorite candidates. it brings more people into the process. people feel less disenfranchised. the problem is it's a complicated process. some places have tried to roll it out successfully. it's been successful in other parts of the world in terms of how the votes are tallied. will andes political money. i want to make a point about the electoral college. host: we had a color in the first segment bring that up. question brings up how you tack -- cap votes.

imagine -- count votes. let's say you send 10 delegates to the electoral college. it's not a popular vote. to this. their votes in most states, if 40% of the vote goes to candidate a and 60% all 10 candidate b, electors are required to vote for candidate b. for candidate a get cap. professionalld be -- proportional voting by the electoral's. college, electoral reflects the popular vote without getting rid of the electoral college. disenfranchising

people who voted for the other candidate. that needs to be changed. at the state level. that needs to be something you can vote state legislators and to make that change at the federal level. ballot voting really matters. all of this is laid out in the book. anyone from an eight grader on to someone 80 years old with an advanced degree, this lays out the basics. having the education about how our elections and the system and government works is step one in taking back democracy. host: we have some helpful discussion questions at the end of each chapter. you can read them with a friend.

john is in jupiter, florida. caller: good morning from beautiful jupiter, four. i remember a couple of years ago when you were here. it's nice to see you on c-span. portugal voting. -- promotional -- proportional voting. person should be a verified voter with a picture id. i would like to comment on a call from north carolina. the discrepancy between democrats and republican views. he is on the mark. there are many more democrat calls aloud through. host: it's not a process of

allowing through. it's about the phone lines. people call in and we take the calls as they come. is what of photo ids john was talking about. guest: it makes logical sense. you should show proof of who you are and you go to the polls. part of the issue with that is we don't have a national system where people automatically get ids. if that's going to be required, it should be easy to get ids. is more ids of that does not address these problems at the other end in terms of not having support to make sure the election goes in a way that run smoothly. get an id oftentimes, you have to get your birth certificate and other documents.

some people don't have the funds or the bandwidth or the space to gather all of that documentation. that's the critique. they book, i late out what id requirements are. there is no empirical evidence that if the entire country went to a stricter id that we would have a better system. i would be in favor of that if that argument was made by the data. idse are going to require like places like texas where a gun registration works but a student id does not, that is problematic. congress could have a uniform id requirement. fund that requirement, make it easy for every eligible voter to have the documentation that some people believe is important. i'm not a proponent of fraud.

i'm not so sure that's the battleground. i don't think us the battleground or the top priority right now in terms of whatsit run with voting. -- what's wrong with voting. we haven't had money from the federal government to fund state in terms of the actual equipment on election day since 2002. soul, this heart and is our right as americans to participate in our own democracy. we are the bosses of the politicians. the only way we can be the boss is to go to the polls and decide who stays and who goes. politicians toon make sure we have funding and people work hard at the state of local level to pull off these elections and have the resources they need. it's not fair to ask them to do this job without supporting them

financially and in terms of the headcount. host: this is brian out of illinois. good morning. caller: when you talk about i think it's the people that handle the ballots, i can woman in florida who tossed away ballots. changed the who ballots. he got arrested. he was bribed. college, ilectoral sayingrefer what you are if everybody voted. , that takesities everything. chicago wipes out all of our

votes in the small town. it's a hard one for me to wrap my head around. i don't want another city from another state taking my vote. that's what these big cities do. that's why the electoral college exists. guest: electoral college exists back to 1787 in part to make sure that the states were not drowned out. i hear the concern about feeling like their vote is outweighed by other votes. this happens in lots of places. take the senate. everyamers decided that state would get to senators. if you live in a sparsely populated state, your senator cares more about your vote that if you live in california that is heavily populated. by contrast, the house of representatives has

representatives based on the census. state,e populated your the more members of the house of representatives you get. termners might hear the gerrymandering. there are ways of skewing that to make votes not count. his finger ons something that is important. and we seeh ways people in big cities who feel disenfranchised because they don't have the representation in the senate. the senate is very crucial. the senate approves judges. it has powers that the house of representatives does not. that would require an amendment. what the caller puts a finger on his how complicated the electoral processes. it's very complicated. there are a lot of nuances to it. it tries to simplify things without sacrificing the

complexity, without the accuracy. convey and back to the colors concerned about democrats getting more airtime on the show, voting is not about politics. ande is no republicans democrats in the constitution. area,k it racing the gray this is not an us versus them proposition. in this tojoin hands make the process work better for everyone. that's a light we can gather around as americans. thatramers understood dividing internally what corrodes democracy. we have to get around this. i encourage everyone to register. if your state allows registration my mail, register by mail.

you might not want to exposure self. you don't know what will be happening with the virus in november. you might be uncomfortable and want to show up. that's fine. the postal service is going to run out of money in september. the president has bowed to veto any legislation that bails out the post office. if that's the case, you should have a backup plan. plan to go to the polls. some states allow early voting. go early, ring your mask, bring a friend. votersan 50% of a little vote in non-presidential election years. if everybody grabbed one person who is not used to voting, the numbers would change. aisle ares across the going to have to pay attention to the people again. every personfor who calls in to the show.

host: it's not a president -- just a presidential election year. 35 seats in the senate. what are your thoughts on term limits for members of congress? guest: some people don't think this is an election issue. in a way it is apparent with gerrymandering. whenmandering is politicians pick the voters. , whateverslatures party dominates that state, they will carve up the state to make the districts elect an individual to the house of representatives. these districts are made in ways that solidify the people in power. it's called packing and cracking. you create this tortured district that only votes democrats or republicans. even if the rest of the state once a different person, because

the district is gerrymandered in a way to keep it red or blue, the voice is knocked out. limits should be on the table. what happens is incumbents can stay in office for their entire professional lives. there is no limit on how many times they can stay in a seat. you couple that with gerrymandering, the voice of the people become smaller. we want to have our elected officials saying i'd better listen to my constituents or i will get fired at the polls. , need to listen to the people the regular people that are going to the polls, not the people who are lining my checkbook or flooding the airwaves with ads. people can only donate $2700 to a campaign to avoid

purchasing an election. billionaires can put as much money as they want into ads. if our elected officials said they only have x number of know i'mthe job, i going to be shown the exit some point, i'm going to do the work of the people. it's that mindset that all of these policies need to be adjusted around to make our politicians care about what we think and not these other forces. host: we've got about 15 minutes left with kimberly wehle. the book is what you need to know about voting and why. in like jesus did. edith did. caller: i think she's very

optimistic and fair-minded. of -- hints of democrats. a naturalized u.s. citizen in 1994. i was very intimidated to go to my precinct. people look at you and how long you take. an absentee be ballot recipient. it's getting very complicated. it's confusing. you need a masters degree to read the measures, thousands of measures to be voted on. there are pages and pages to your ballot. the table andat

sit down and do this. i have two sons and they were eager to vote. they said i don't want to read all this. now it's a booklet. sometimes, i voted -- am i saying yes to this measure or no to it? it's crazy. i'm a tax practitioner. i have customers come to me and say i just got my residency. vote. not eligible to this is crazy. i never heard anything like that. host: you bring up a lot of different issues. love -- thank you for

calling in. i love her anecdote. at they how she felt polls, a sense of intimidation. i think that's unfortunate for a lot of people and the confusion that she needs an advanced degree to understand the process. that's a problem. that's not a partisan problem. that's a bipartisan problem across the board. i just want to make one point about fraud. this is a legal thing. i'm a law professor. i'm a practicing lawyer. i don't take a in that regard politically. i work for ken starr during the whitewater investigation. i worked in the department of justice. is concept of fraud knowingly pretending you were someone you are not at the ballot box. impostercally being an

at the ballot box. that is really rare because it carries a five year prison sentence. there's a $5,000 penalty. won't affect the election and they will make themselves potentially a felon. it just doesn't happen that way. that's different from what edith mentioned. it's a complicated thing to pull off. if anyone has managed something complicated, like training or third-party vendors, it's hard to do. mistakes happen. mistakes will happen in the fall. i'm not saying it's easy. i don't mean to suggest that everything is roses and it's a comb by jan moment. a moment.

it's all we have. the structure isn't working. congress isn't working anymore in the way it's designed. it's not functioning to pass legislation. a check functioning as on the office of the presidency. this includes joe biden. if he is in office, he gets a much bigger blank check the donald trump had because of the way congress is not overseen the presidency. the belt and suspenders is bigger for anybody who sits in that office. this is toy to fix go to the outbox. it's the best we have. i'm willing to hold my nose and deal with some of these problems if the upside is americans actually self govern again. even if there are mistakes.

the current system, keeping people home and intimidating them, that will not fix it. do nothing, nothing will happen. 100%. that's for sure. we can try more voting. i debate the experts on this. we bank electronically. the experts say we don't have the technology to vote electronically yet. there are issues with you believeon and the software is accurate. technology is unbelievable. i saw people go out into outer space. we focus on this and we care about this, we could create a system where the problems go away and people feel like it's worth participating because they trust the system. for every american. host: robert is in pompano

beach, florida. caller: good morning. about listening to this. i'm excited about the book. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: it was interesting looking at the core of the matter. have to register and you have to vote. if you're not doing that, you have nothing to complain about. they have made their point. now they need to take those people walking the street and teach them how to vote. they have.the power they can change the system by registering to vote. it's possible to type voter registration to getting drivers license renewal. it's something people need to do every time.

there's no reason why they can't be put together. there's no reason why the database can't be set up where you can vote using your driver's license. you take three things and put them into one thing. that's the idea i think would help with regards to voting. guest: robert is thinking like congress. congress did pass a statute that is mostly -- loosely known as the motor voter bill. dmv, by go to the federal law they have to allow you to register to vote at the dmv. you can change or registration when you renew your license. , yousure that if you move change registration. your secretary of state website is the most accurate place for

information about registration. maybe september, get online and make sure that you are registered. some of the problems in this registration was up over 2016. those numbers limited in march in part because of what robert mentions. tmz's were closed. people aren't registering at the dmv, which was an answer congress propose to make it easier to register. that's not the same as voting. that's a great point. register andpened, update your registration. that everybody has a drivers license, not everybody drives. we have people with disabilities and elderly people or don't have an income. be broader.tent to the statute requires that social

placesuller -- welfare people are registered to vote. have it on college campuses. have more places where people can register. that is something congress could do. the opportunity costs are low. , i wanted to come back to something she talked about, her concern about noncitizens voting. you take that on in the book. when noncitizens can participate, can you talk to that? citizen.u have to be a at the state level, that's not the case. in certain states, maryland has expanded voting to include people who were noncitizens. generally, the answer is no. the framers left that to the states. people who believe in small government believe in state power as a mechanism to

distribute power over many sources. they are worried about that. citizens voting at the state level is possible. it's not a basis for widespread voter fraud as far as the evidence shows. people have this sense. we've got to go back to the studies and the facts. when it comes to widespread forefront, there been efforts to find it and it doesn't exist. there are anecdotal pieces. datais just looking at the . somebody else did the research and i have no reason to doubt it. if that changes, my point of view may change based on different data. host: carol is in michigan. good morning. caller: i love it when you were on it. what i would like to know is to

illegals are not permitted to vote. correct? guest: as far as the terminology, noncitizens at the federal level cannot vote. in my state, we have motor voter. once to prevent an illegal from voting in november? he's got a picture id. he fills out that paper with your name and address. you -- how can we stop illegals from having a say in our voting? host: are you talking about provisional ballots? caller: when they get that drivers license, which michigan gives you, and illegal can get a driver's license here, that's it. again, all i have to say,

i'm not expert on every states process because it's overwhelming and shifts costly. nobody has that working knowledge because there are so me different systems. as problems far with non-citizens voting and voter fraud, there is no evidence of that. donald trump commissioned a panel to find it. they disbanded with no information. they didn't find any. i agree that if that were appening, that would be problem. there just isn't evidence of that. i understand it's a concern. the energy should not go

caller: i appreciate your effort. in my way of thinking, first you have to acknowledge the truth of a problem before you can put a remedy or solution to the problem. and i think at the beginning of it, you mentioned that the founding of this place was by

the so-called founding fathers who were landowners and had it set up where only white men can vote, right? guest: right. caller: now, the problem being here is, see, i'm one of those groups where voter suppression is still an effort against my people, right? and so the franchise of voting is actually working the way it was set up to work, to suppress the vote. you talked about dog money, right? so if we get to the truth of the problem as to why our system is to weird and difficult, it's difficult by design. and i understand your solution, kimberly, but i think unless you can deal with the truth and coming ry of it, then

in with a solution when you don't know what the problem is, is going to make us continuously having to fight these old battles over and over again unless we can establish some truth. host: thanks for the call. give you the last minute or two. guest: unlike voter fraud suppression is real because congress passed one of the most voting ul pieces, the act to stop the maneuvers to keep people from voting and the supreme court in 2013 gutted that bipartisanship statute for very technical legal reasons so we're seeing more obstacles to voting, closing polling places and not having enough machinery. all these things can be done deliberately. there's nothing -- it's hard to catch and prosecute and hard to identify and it's real. what i'm saying, david, is the way to overcome it in this moment is for every eligible voter to jump over those

hurdles and vote anyway including people that traditionally have been kept from the polls, african-americans eligible to vote under the law and does require work as my earlier caller said and i'm saying it's worth it and we need to fight together for the right to vote in america. i don't think it should be that way. we shouldn't have to fight to vote. it should be the right to vote is the right to vote. >> testimony on inequities exposed how covid-19 widened racial inequities, education, health and the work force. this is an entirely remote hearing pursuant to house resolution 965 and the regulations there to. as a general rule, i will ask that microphones, including those of members and witnesses be kept muted to avoid unnecessary background noits. members responsible for unmuting themselves when they're recognized to speak or when they wish to seek recognition. and somebody is not muted right now.