center to discuss how covid-19 and racial discord could in -- could impact the upcoming election. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning, it is the start of a long holiday weekend. members of congress have left town in the health -- house and senate are in recess until july 20. the president heading to south dakota for a celebration at mount rushmore. we are waking up to more grim numbers as the u.s. sees another 65,000 cases of coronavirus in a single day. dr. anthony fauci telling the bbc that this is grim and disappointing news as americans had to beaches, our use, and traditional celebrations. it is friday morning, july 3. a new number of -- a new poll

indicates that many of you are in a sour mood. 202-748-8000 if you are optimistic about the direction of the country. if you are pessimistic, 202-748-8001. you can also join us on social media and we will read your treat -- your tweets. you can send us a text message. that number is 202-748-8003. and as always, we are on facebook. a lot to get to, thank you for being with us as the july 4 holiday celebration gets underway. we want to begin with this. the headline, 2020 has put americans in a bad mood. americans are watching with anguish as a nation grapples with systemic racism and upset with protesters defacing statues with those representing the worst racist. they worry about the economy but fear the spread of coronavirus.

one study from pew research finding that 12% of americans are satisfied with the way things are going in the country. further, according to the survey, 71 percent described themselves as angry, 66 percent as fearful, and just days before the nation's 144th anniversary independence,y's just a few as proud." last night the president on twitter with the following. "there is a rise in cases because our testing is so massive and far good, -- and so good, even better news is that the death rate is down. younger people who get much better easier and faster." the president responding to the jobs numbers and his handling of his pandemic. here's part of what he told reporters. [video clip] pres. trump: we have done an

incredible job, we have assembly lines building ventilators, thousands a week. all of these people are working with governors and local officials to restore best practices, and that is what we have done. that includes face coverings, social distancing, and testing, and personal hygiene. state officials will decide how rapidly they will open their economies. we have gotten involved in a couple where we thought it was unfair. we would like to see churches open quickly, and some of them we do not want to do that. in new york we got a great ruling by a judge. if these best practices are implemented, then the hotspots can be called -- calmed quickly. we understand the disease now. we did the right thing and closed it up, and we would've lost millions of lives. we have done a historic thing,

we would have lost millions of lives, and we are opening up, and it is opening up faster and more successfully than people thought possible. [end video clip] host:'s full statement is available on c-span.org and we invite our listeners. --are also on seriousness siriusxm coast-to-coast. the question, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the course of the country. on twitter, there is this. fear,in a great mood, no and proud of our nation." "grim numbers, sour mood." our line for pessimistic about the country. i am very pessimistic about the state of things. first of all, i am afraid so

many people will die, including myself. the very pessimistic about fact that we have a president who every day goes out there and spreads this lovely story of everything is wonderful, and it is so great, and we should be so proud. well, he has not done a terrific job. inept -- i cannot think of the word i am looking just -- he is just not competent to be president. we need a real leader, and he is not that leader. host: we will go to cleveland, ohio. james optimistic about the direction of the country. what gives you the optimism? caller: our president has let us brilliantly despite all the efforts by the mainstream media to slander him, every opportunity they get.

host: thank you. a moment yesterday with senator richard shelby and dr. french's -- francis collins on nah on where are we in terms of the vaccine. [video clip] >> the american people are dying and getting sick, and they are looking for results. and we know week -- you cannot just wave the magic wand. dr. collins, i will start with you. what do timeline, and you think we will be, where? >> this is the right question and something that i think a lot of us working on covid-19 are obsessed about because this is one of those crises where science is not only important, but it is crucial, and every mistake we make such as back and every wasted opportunity has a consequence. we are all in, everybody on this warp speed team.

where we are worth the vaccine, remember that it generally takes five to 10 years. we do not have that time. very firstime, the vaccine went from knowing the sequence of the viral genome, injecting the first patient in 63 days. because of new technologies that made that possible. going quickly from phase one that looks promising to phase two, starting on may 29, and phase three beginning that month. how long will that take? we need 30,000 volunteers, and that will take a matter of months. we are optimistic that the goal be set to have a vaccine that works and is saved by the end of 2020 will be met by one of the vaccines. i mentioned one, but there are several being conduct did, and that we would then have by early 2021, 300 million doses of a

vaccine that is safe and effective. that is where we are putting ourselves on the line, and everybody at this table would agree that that is a stretch goal, but the right goal for the american people. [end video clip] host: that is dr. collins in the hearing. the "new york daily news" with this headline, dr. fauci saying it is beyond the were spikes we have seen in the u.s. has another 55 cath out -- 55,000 cases reported yesterday. he told the bbc that "this is not good news." back to your phone calls. jack from michigan. in morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. pessimistic, about the situation. i am afraid what they are doing now, and they are coming

out with everything against trump. trump has should've already done something about this rioting. protesting is one thing, but they are destroying the country, and we are good -- he is going to have to do something, and that is the main reason i am pessimistic. but nottrump supporter, real strong, but i voted for trump, and i hope he comes out with something, because 80% of the people want law and order. this democratic party has gone haywire. host: jack from michigan. tweet, "with trump in the white house anyone paying attention has to be pessimistic

about our future." sam sending us a text message, " if trump sends -- gets a second term, i do not think there is much positive. ." then there is this. ruin, and the road to trump in the gop are driving drunk and incoherent. billionaire boulevard will further destroy what made america great. by white house occupied resident evil, the gop are complacent in his many crimes." jobs returned in june blowing away expectations, good job, america." "trump has failed the country not only with covid-19, but with the protests over police brutality. trump is a liar and dangerous, we cannot withstand another four years of this incompetent fool." walter from butler, indiana. you are optimistic. caller: yes.

, and id in the military got to travel all over the world and see different countries. that is not a day that goes by that i wake up and realize how blessed we are to be in this country. we have faults? absolutely. you can get in the car, go to work, and earn a decent wage, drive, and see things, and there is a roof over your head and food over the dutch food on the table and a place to lay her head on at night. nobody is taking away your rights. it is the greatest show on earth and i am totally optimistic. they say is the glass half-full or half-empty? i say be thankful and drink from the glass. i have never seen a greater show than this. the news loves to make antagonistic things and the world is on fire because it makes ratings. if you go to an average diner or truck stop or your local area, people are doing the best that

there can and are police department is excellent, and i have ducks in the backyard. i am golden good to go. i wish everybody would stop and take a breath, and think about where i could go if this is bad and where is better. host: thank you. take good care of the ducks. a poll released late last week from usa today and suffolk university asking the question about the direction of the country. 32% say the u.s. is the greatest country in the world. 28% saying that it is one of the greatest. will percent saying that the u.s. is "an average country." u.s. hasg that the fallen behind major countries, and 3% saying it is one of the worst. summerville, south carolina. good morning. why are you pessimistic. caller: thank you for having me.

i am pessimistic because of the way trump is leading our country sounds like this -- with this protest and everything else, and i wonder, it bugs me to death. we are the third largest country in the world and he does not understand what per capita means. as far as testing goes, we are 27th. , just to spain, israel name a few, russia, and britain tested more people than the united states if you go by per capita. i feel strong that he lies all the time when he is on there and when he says we have the most test. we are the third-largest, so we should have the most. host: we are leading the world in terms of overall cases of coronavirus and the death toll, that is from johns hopkins university.

nearly 11there are million confirmed cases with the global death toll approaching 522,000. ,ore than 2.7 million cases ant over 55,000 reported, uptick from yesterday. the death toll in the u.s. report -- approaching 130,000. that is from john hopkins university. eric has this. "let trump presidency is going down in flames calling it a beautiful sight." on the linegeorgia, for optimistic about the future. caller: good morning, i am very optimistic, i think we have a great leader. he has done more for the black community in three years than the democrat party has done on -- and over 155 years and over

55 years of running inner cities , large inner cities. own this mob and all of this environs. history, they the are the confederates. host: thank you for the call. the front page of "the washington post" has a couple of stories. you can see the map of where the , primarily in the south and west, florida, south carolina, georgia, louisiana, texas, nevada, arizona, and california. and the case search could erase june gains. "the labor department reporting 4.8 million jobs, far better than the estimated 3 million expected. responding to that, joe biden. [video clip] >> until this president faces what is going on.

report is positive news. but make no mistake, we are still in aji -- in a deep hole because donald trump has bungled the response, and now he has given up on responding at all. a million more americans, millions of them, would still had their job if donald trump had the -- had done his job. any of the jobs that have come back have never been lost in the first place. everyone's job who has come back, for everyone who cannot get a sweetheart loan through connections, does this feel like a victory? for parents who are worried when kids cannot go back to school at -- in the fall caused -- do you feel like this is mission accomplished? or for people in states where covid-19 is biking and seeing record high numbers of infections, do you feel like

this crisis is under control? of course not. people are scared, they are worried about their families and their future. it is just like last month, president trump made this about him. he does not seem to realize that he has not even on the 50 yard line. [end video clip] host: that was vice president joe biden. this is a text message from bob saying he is optimistic, "things are improving, let the virus run its course. people are working. yahoo! news also looking at a survey on the mood of the country. the headline, america no longer sees reagan's shining city on a hill. "this fourth of july, a new yahoo! news poll shows that no matter how polarized they might be politically, americans finally seem to agree, that everything about america is getting worse. in his 1989 farewell address

president ronald reagan famously described the u.s. is a shining city on the hill, a beacon of hope and a model for the rest of the world. according to the survey conducted between june 29 and july, 52 percent of americans believe that reagan's remark was accurate at the time. only 21% disagreed. 62% ofa staggering americans say that the u.s. is no longer that shining city on a hill. 17% say it still is." from january 1980 nine, his final appearance in the oval office, here's part of what president reagan said. [video clip] >> there is a great tradition of warnings in presidential farewells, and i have been -- i have one that has been on my mind for some time, and it starts with one of the things i am proudest up in the past eight years. the resurgence of national pride that i called the new patriotism. this national feeling is good,

but it won't count for much and it will not last unless it is grounded in thoughtfulness and knowledge. informed patriotism is what we want. we are doing a good enough job teaching our children what america is and what she represents in the long history of the world. those of us over 35 or so years of age you up in a different america. we were taught directly what it means to be an american, and we love ofred on the country and appreciation of its institutions. [end video clip] host: that is from ronald reagan, and going back to the survey, overall a poll found that the american people heading into this july 4 holiday weekend, traditionally marked by family cookouts and firework displays, and events that have been canceled across the country in the midst of a surging pandemic that has killed more than 120 8000 americans and is

affecting more than 50,000 each day. the pandemic may be the main reason for the public's gloomy outlook with 65% of americans saying that covid-19 is getting worse versus 16% that say it is getting better. can weeks has this tweet saying besthe is "optimistic, the recent news, pointing out that 150 domestic terrorists were arrested by the justice department and more that 500 under investigations for damaging property. telling viewers to have a blessed day." mark from minnesota, you are pessimistic. why? i am tired ofe winning all the time. winning just like the president promised us, like we would be winning so must -- much we would be tired of it. a friend of mine said yesterday that if this guy what have

competently handled the coronavirus crisis he would have and it is reelection, just amazing to me how much he has botched everything from the racial disunity in this country. i voted for him in the first place, i had no idea that this -- that he would be as incompetent and as bad as he has turned out to be. can i get my vote back, please? host: let us go to julie from wisconsin. good morning. caller: i am optimistic that it will eventually go away, but i am also thinking it is the people's own fault. when you are staying close and laying on beaches with their bodies, then you are expecting to get what you get coming to you. also, these people that are burning, and looting in

minnesota, you better take a good look at yourself, because i am telling you, god's gonna get you for all the stuff you have done. good day. host: thank you. this is steve from missouri. you are pessimistic, why? caller: good morning, happy fourth when you get to it, hope you are doing well. my biggest problem is that we do not have leadership. iswe stay with trump, that -- we will probably lose our democracy, and that is all of our republicans. if we go back with biden, we will have four years of getting nothing done, so they spent $8 trillion in eight years and got nothing done. there is no been between, -- no in between, and i am an independent, and i cannot understand why we cannot have a third party. i wish we could have a third

vote, what i wish the country well and i think you tahnk -- thank you and wish you well. host: the libertarian and green parties hosting their conventions. we will have coverage and you can follow it all on c-span.org. if you are just tuning in, we are all -- we are asking a simple question. are you optimistic or pessimistic? up is donna. good morning. whyer: i do not understand people are so naive, he does not have carte blanche to come into the states and do what he wants. he wrote a letter to the mayor chicago saying let me send some advisers to help you. they had 18 people killed in one day, a 24 hour period. where's the outrage for that?

i think that president trump is great. ilove him, and he is strong, mean he is bringing back jobs from other countries. obama signed the thing that let them go. you know? naive to beust so complaining because you all are free. would you rather be over there in china with them spraying you down to get you off the streets? stay home. this is not donald trump's fault. host: thank you for the call. politico.com,from americans think america is in bad shape. "nearly out of set -- nearly seven out of 10 voters think that the u.s. is on the wrong track according to a new poll. only 31% say the country is headed in the right direction. this is the lowest mark reported in the polling since president

trump took office. say that the country is on the wrong track, other incumbent presidents have won reelection with the majority saying the country was also on the wrong track. analysisgton post showing barack obama and bill clinton won reelection despite high wrong track numbers in polling during their presidencies." more information available at politico.com. florida,ma city beach, are you optimistic or pessimistic? caller: i just have one question, why does trump want us to die? that is all. host: brian from west virginia. good morning. caller: how are you this morning? host: good, how are you? caller: just fine. i do not want to downplay this virus. there is somewhat seriousness to it. i think the american people need

to look at the death rate, not the infectious rate. isseems like the virus getting mild, the people are getting closer. if they are infected with it, they suffer less in symptoms. there has been less hospitalization over it. we are not using all of these ventilators that everybody panicked about. isean, my personal opinion that i think this is a ploy to bring this government down, and when did we make the flu virus so serious? i understand people have health issues, and anything can take a person out. on, i think they are playing the naive and the younger generation that does not have a history to understand. we get through a lot of things. this country has been through

ups and downs, and i think trump is doing a great job. i think he is just being advised by the wrong people and that is all i have to say about it. host: speaking of president trump, he travels to south dakota and one of the iconic locations, mount rushmore. there will be an event taking place and we will have live coverage at his remarks taking place at 10:00 p.m. eastern time, 7:00 on the west coast, here on c-span and the free radio app. the president's back here for the president -- for the july 4 celebration and we will have remarks on his coverage at the mall. 6:45 easternerway time. let us go out to the governor who was asked about the events tonight, the fact that you are not required to wear face masks and what she expects with the president's visit. [video clip] >> in south dakota we told people to focus on personal

responsibility. every one of them has to make -- has the opportunity to make a decision they are comfortable with. we will have celebrations of american independence. we told those folks who had concerns that they could stay home, but those who want to join us, we will be given out -- giving out free face masks, but we will not be doing social distancing, we asked them to, and enjoy the freedoms and liberties that we have, and to talk about our history, and what it brought us with the opportunity to raise our kids in the greatest country in the world. [end video clip] host: that is from the governor of south dakota, previewing the events that we will carry live tonight. from tampa, florida. are you pessimistic, and if so, why? caller: i am pessimistic because of the fact, because all of good -- all of the good that has been done, people are not really

aware. they are getting the wrong messages. i feel that this president really has delivered. china, covid-19 virus was from china, and if you add up the deaths in the united states versus the cases it is point 036, -- .036, less than one half of 1% of people dying from covid. people understand that they have to do the math, forget the hype, get a calculator, and figure it out in your own communities. this has been hyped to a saddened proportion, and i really want people for this fourth of july to thank god that they live in the greatest country in the world, and we only -- we all have neighbors, any ethnicity and we all love each other, but no one loves

anybody on the news. i wish you would change that, and see the good in america, and praise the fact that you were born in this country. this is the greatest country, and thank god, fourth of july, thank you america. host: this is from a new monmouth university poll available on that school's website. more voters rule out trump than biden. here are some of the details. electoratee nation's say they have ruled out voting for donald trump, and four in 10 say the same about biden. biden holds a 12 point lead in the presidential race according to the survey. biden holds a significant advantage among the one in five voters who do not have a favorable opinion of either candidate. slightly more voters say they are confident about his mental and physical animal and say the

same about president trump. joe biden has the support of 53% of registered voters. the president has the support of 41%." nathan, from las vegas, good morning. caller: good morning, the only poll that counts is the one in november and i am optimistic. this is such a great man we have got, and that last caller, i liked her comments. i am telling you that we will be ok. everybody just needs to chill out, except that we have a -- accept that we have a corrupt media and these people do not care. kidsrun a headline, 7000 infected with covid in florida, and what they do not follow up on is zero deaths. we are going to be ok. we are going to get through this. it might be a couple of years, and maybe we are going to lose another hundred thousand year. i know that seems like a huge number. i think we should've started

social distancing back in 1920, how may people might have been saved from catching the flu and not having the flu? i think the flu numbers will be down because of social distancing. we will be ok. we are the united states of america, we do not have to be united. you do your thing, i do my thing. very few times have we been united. we were reunited during the civil war? no. andere united after 9/11 pearl harbor because we were attacked, so we are going to be fine. aerybody just chill out, have good fourth of july, have your barbecue and enjoy this country, set off your fireworks, be careful. everything is going to be good. god bless america and donald trump. he knows what he is doing. it, does it, after gets things done and tells you what he is going to do and what he thinks.

this man is the most genuine president that we have had and all the media wants to do is tear him down and nitpick this and that. let the man rule, he is our leader. host: thank you for the call. later today we will have a conversation with david's anger, you can -- david sanger as he walks us through the "new york times" reporting on allegations that russia had ordered bounties on american service members in afghanistan. yesterday there was a briefing with the so-called gang of eight including nancy pelosi. house and senate republican leaders and members of the key intelligence committees. after the briefing there was this. [video clip] >> i know you are limited in what you can say about these briefings, but they say that that is in for information should have been something that the gang of eight knows about. can you comment if you did know about it?

, it was at a this consequential level that the intelligence committee should have brought it to us in that way. what is important is that the president's relationship with russia. at the same time as the white house was aware of this threat to the security of our men and women in uniform, the president was still flirting with the idea of having russia be part of the g8, in total opposition to the wishes of the other members of the g8. they were not there, russia was annexatione of their of crimea and invasion of ukraine. g-7.annot be in the g8 or so, why were they not raising this to a level to say to the president, this is not a good

time for you to be saying russia should be part of the g8 when in fact there is reason to suspect threatening the security of our men and women in uniform? [end video clip] int: that was speaker pelosi her final briefing before the congressional recess that begins this weekend. lawmakers are back on july 20. the lincoln project is a group of republicans very critical of the president out with a new ad. [video clip] >> i am a 2001 united states naval graduate and i am an x navy seal and founders of veterans for responsible leadership. once ago donald trump learned that russians were paying bounties for dead ascot -- dead american soldiers. he chose to do nothing about it. any other commander-in-chief would be beating the shit out of russians, diplomatically,

economically, or with asymmetrical wars there -- warfare. this is trump, you are either a coward or complacent, which is it? he is unfit to be our commander in chief. owningpro-life, and combat veteran i can see trump for what he is, a coward. we need to send this draft dodger back to his golf courses, the lives of our troops depend on it. [end video clip] host: we are keeping track of them as part of our 2020 coverage, and our twitter pages and text the following. this from jack. conservativesf win the november elections. remember the all-time record employment for everyone prior to the virus, tax increase by the democrats equals financial depression." from bobby saying "optimistic

that trump will be a one term president. i am concerned in the direction. other countries i lived, other countries -- and the counties i live, the coronavirus is devastating our area of texas. prayers for all." host: the trump campaign releasing this new ad taking aim at those democrats calling for defunding police departments nationwide. [video clip] [phone ringing] >> you have reached the 911 police emergency line, due to defunding, we are sorry, but no one is here to take your call. if you are calling to report a rape, press one, report a murder, press two, for a home invasion, press three. for all other crimes, leave your name and number. our estimated wait time is currently five days. good by.

>> i am donald j. trump and i approve this message. [end video clip] host: our question, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the state of the country. from chicago, good morning. caller: i am pessimistic because americans do not seem to learn from history or look from set -- or from scientific experts. this pandemic was predicted. bill gates made a famous ted talk predicting this. i wish someone would make a documentary comparing the way the obama administration handled the ebola come -- crisis in africa compared to what trump has done with the covid-19 pandemic. scientists have told us that this was coming, and more viral pandemics will be coming as our population surges. nobody listens. everyone wants to listen to a bunch of baloney salesman that paints sunshine and lollipops.

another thing is climate change. nobody wants to think about that. we have 400 parts per billion of co2 in the atmosphere. things are getting get bad for our grandchildren, but nobody chaired -- cares, buy a big car and drive your boat around a lake. that is america. host: thank you. rufus texting us this from michigan. "pessimistic because the government frequently does not work to solve our problems, but optimistic because some people will rise to meet their challenges. paul wrote the following, " trump's virus is spreading in his economy is stalling. just over two weeks ago "the wall street journal" publishing a piece by mike pence calling that there is not a coronavirus second wave that was not supposed -- that was supposed to reassure the nation, but what it provided was a clear

illustration of the delusion of thinking that marked every's pups -- step of the trump administration's response to covid-19. according to trump officials we should have been seeing a fading pandemic and roaring recovery. instead we have a fading recovering and roaring pandemic." janice from indiana, you are optimistic. why? because, am optimistic for one thing paul predicted gloom and doom before, so let us not listen to this gentleman, for another thing, we have the greatest country in the world. , we have our rights, we have a president that tries

every which way he can, and is demonized every which way they can. they cannot come up with anything to get him down. and he keeps on trucking. dayay for our country every , i pray for our presidents every day. i am so blessed. i feel so blessed to be an american. i feel so blessed to have a president that feels blessed, and loves this country, and i just want everybody to remember country is the greatest country in the world. saying "ca new york always optimistic saying that every election is a chance for

change. let us choose to be less partisan and moving forward." a front page at "" the washington times the headline hailing the rebound for unemployment. the associated plant -- press with u.s. unemployment falling to 11%. back in june, the economy adding another 4.8 million jobs. the job market recovery it may already be faltering because a new round of closings triggered by a resurgence of coronavirus. california like texas, and arizona closing or movieng down on bars, theaters, peaches, and swimming pools, throwing workers out of a job for the second time. benjamin is next from westville, new jersey. caller: good morning. yes. i am a pessimist.

my postman -- pessimism is not directed at leaders, the president whoever it might be. it is in the american people very sadly, our people are just so incredibly misinformed. to our downfall of the nation started in 1980. we started the 80's off with a national debt, less than a trillion dollars, of course. $895 billion is a lot of money. but it is not a trillion. twice,eagan was elected and then the bush, we ended up with clinton, who balanced the budget. he left a surplus. and then the next thing you know, we ended up with the catastrophe of 2008, and all of

that debt. and, financial collapse. under thet happened four presidents, reagan, bush, clinton, obama. ok, i should say bush, and then obama. all of that debt falls under those four republicans because the democrat balanced the budget. here a historical fact. nations that have collapsed and failed, they do it for two reasons. they fail number one because of financial exhaustion, they wasted their money on wars. ok. , military expansion. we have 1800 military bases all over the world. here the sad part. see --against advocates

an advocate, china. directing its national treasure on infrastructure and training of its people. we are not doing it in america. host: thank you so much. from a text message page from caroline. "although i am a firm believer it begins at the top, it is hard to point the blame at one person. why does everything need to be so far right or left? hopefully our politicians will compromise to come up with solutions that both parties that -- that both parties will agree on to help our country." we have been talking about some of these hotspots. for those watching, you can see the dark of the area, the cases withan uptick in cases in pennsylvania, and south through florida and central texas and then parts of northern california heading up towards

oregon and seattle, washington. this is an exchange between andy kim and hhs secretary, the a sacred -- the assistant secretary of health on where things stand in the path forward. here's a portion. [video clip] >> we are not flattening the curve, the curve is still going up. >> do you think we are headed in the right direction? >> right now, and i try to nuance this, in many states and counties we are. four states are accounting for 50% of our new cases and they are very concerning. >> with those states with increased cases, i hear the last time around that the increase in the positive cases is due to increased testing. in your professional assessment, is that -- does not account for the increase we are seeing? there is no -- >> there is more tech -- no question that that the more testing you get the more you uncover, and we believe that

this is a real increase because percent positivity's is going up. [end video clip] host: that from the assistant secretary of health. inside the new york times. 4 celebration gets underway, revelers flocked to myrtle beach and the virus follows them home. one of the big concerns as those attend gatherings this weekend they will bring the gatherings back to their workplace or to their place of residence." this text message from a retired history teacher saying "i am optimistic if trump is repudiating trump. he has corrupt, a bigoted bully who is -- who has embarrassed the majority of our country and he is a terrible role model for our children. biden is a decent and kind man who will restore faith in our better angels." georgia is joining us in pittsburgh. you are optimistic, why? caller: let me get to it quick.

i am a black person and i am a republican. the republicans freed the slaves and the democrats instituted the jim crow laws. this point way up to trump created balance between american races. but what i am trying to get to power, always shows up in separating and stepping between the police, the jim crow laws and stuff, that was between the police and the black people. how do you know who is that? white society, and white people have stepped up and

finally realized that black lives matter. hit, i feelinally real optimistic. my problem here is that white peoplewill allow racist to take over their narrative, and they seem to give that up shamee, and that is a that that happen. host: thank you for the call. describing him as somebody with a honeyed delivery and a low-key but erudite manner, the new york times on the passing of hugh downs. he was born in akron, ohio, and at one kit -- one side he was a sidekick to jack parr. for nine years he was a host of the today show during the most mulch was period -- tumulous periods of the 1960's.

inil he required -- retired 0/20" he was part of the "2 program. john from harvey, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. i am alling in because democrat, first of all, and i do slowly -- solely with the party, and i ask what they have to offer. i look the president, i see he refuses to believe dr. fauci and other officials who have the data and research that should be given to the people, which is given to the people by other agencies. but the president does not believe these people. he has running around without a face covering, and what is happening now is how many people are looking up to him and saying if he is not wearing one, i am not wearing one.

on top of all of that he is telling the people that everything is getting better. fact, as aw for a retired journalist, i looked into surveys and the people in the unemployment lines. people are not getting better. people are not getting better, the country is not getting better. host: john, from illinois. thank you for the call. this is richard from the villages sending us a text not -- noamerica is longer the greatest country, but the one with the biggest credit card balance." greg abbott requiring face masks across the lone star state. this is a testing location in austin, texas. you can see the long lines for people waiting to get tested, and expect a fourth with more fizzle than bank. from michigan, good morning. caller: hello. i am optimistic because people

will realize that first of all, we live in the greatest country in the world. we changed the world several times. even though people are following the media line where if it leads it leads, except for the caller from las vegas and indiana, everybody else seems to believe the media headlines. in --mbers of michigan with covid do not line up with everything. the michigan governor aligns with what cuomo did in new york, and so are other governors putting patients in nursing homes which is not a good idea. but i am optimistic that people will realize that the media has shaded this one way. hugh downs was heck of a guy on tv. thank you. host: thank you. journal,"ll street the u.s. adding jobs amidst a

cloudy outlook in the white house jumping on this news with the president briefing reporters yesterday. [video clip] >>'s today -- today's announcement proves that our economy is roaring back and coming back strong. we have areas where we are putting out the flames of the fires, and that is working out well. we are working closely with governors, and i think it is working well and you will see that shortly. 2.1 millionadded leisure and hospitality jobs, 740 thousand retail jobs. -- 506 8000 health care jobs. these are all historic numbers. jobs andanufacturing manufacturing looks ready to take off at a level it has never been before. a lot of that has to do with trade policy because we are bringing manufacturing back to our country and these take a long time to get going, and they

are now going. these are historic numbers. see really happy when we 356,000 manufacturing jobs, and that is a small number compared to what it will be because of our great trade deals. [end video clip] host: the president as at mount rushmore today. we will have live coverage tonight. "more layoffs likely as state see a spike in covid-19 infections." also democrats looking to capitalize on trump's post. -- boastful style. pessimistic,so this man should have never been president. he does not have a clue. usually i and says wear a mask. no one has ever seen a man wear a mask. trump prefers people from norway

with blond hair and blue eyes than blacks. he has no love for blacks. i wish that they would understand that. should nevernd he ever be president. cartoone president of a shop or something. he is worthless and abomination to men. all you guys who have called and hello, he put food on the table -- host: that is from sadie. jim in buffalo, new york saying that he is pessimistic. "trump is doing a great job, but things will not get better -- we will try to go back to that. we will go back to phone calls. dave, and cincinnati. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good. caller: i am pessimistic long-term. on a deficit,g

and that was with full unemployment and a good economy. but a trillion dollar deficit, -- i know the congress had gave money to people, and thank you for doing that. but, that is more money on the bill that future generations will have to pay off. host: thank you you for the call. we will go back to jim's text message. he said "things will not get better until democrats are in existence. time to decry -- divide the country into three. we just hate each other too much to resolve our differences." catherine from new hampshire. good morning. caller: good morning. at the end of my comment it will

explain why i am optimistic. there is one reason that i will not vote for biden, he struggles to be coherent, and i find the democrats are cruel in using him for their power. it is sad to watch what the democrats are doing to this man, and they will rationalize their cruelty. and i will not be a part of their cruelty, so i will not vote for biden. i will vote for president trump. i like many of his and the republicans in congress' policies, so i am optimistic. host: with the president traveling to mount rushmore, the headline from "the washington uix leadersat so are planning to protest arguing that it could worsen the protest and violates the

native american claims to the black hills. caller: good morning, god bless america, this is the greatest country of the world -- in the world regardless of what is going on. by today's thinking in the white cancercouldn't we cure by simply not testing and it would magically go away? time that wehigh put up statues to hit lower and wrought -- hilter and rommel for what they did? it does not make sense. your final point? caller: my final point is that i came up with a new hat, the new mega hat, at the bottom it is make american great again, elect biden. from fort worth, texas. -- from fort worth texas, good

morning. caller: pretty good. i am pessimistic, very pessimistic. from what i have seen, first of all, i am a democrat, i did not vote for him in the first place, i do not think he is qualified, but it has been proven. but, after six months, and the way things are now, i know he did not cause the virus, i know he had nothing to do with that. but, he did not act when he should have, and that is one of the number of things that he has done wrong since he has been president. i do not understand people calling in and out -- talking about how much they love him. that he is doing such a great job and god bless him, and he lies to you all the time. wake up people, do not be so

naive. that is naivete to the ninth degree. it is unbelievable to me that anyone would still believe in anne, thank you for the call. george munro with this week. toump to this day continues lie about covid-19. away so hewish it ignores it to the peril of all americans. if he cannot do his job, then he must go." caller: good morning, c-span. say optimistic that after i what i'm about to say things will change for america. the administration has failed the american people. corporations have failed the american people. the government can put $2 trillion, but in six months that cannot make masks so every person can make them.

apple can sell over one billion phones, exxon can produce hundreds of millions of barrels of oil. make, ford, gm, they can tos, but they can't step up help. once again, manufacturers and pharmaceutical companies are profiting over people dying and getting sick. host: thank you for the call. eva, you get the last call. what is your view on this holiday weekend? caller: i am pessimistic. i am an immigrant here. here, people i am from my country word job -- were jealous of us. they don't give us health no match -- no matter how much money we have we are all going

to die. thank you. happy fourth of july. shortwe will take a break. thank you for your calls, text messages, tweaks. two more hours of "washington journal". joining us is rich thau with the swing state voter project. we'll talk about that in undecided voters, and later, henry olsen from the ethics and public policy center discusses the president, covid-19, and racial discord -- how all this could impact campaign 2020. you are listening to "c-span -- you are listening and watching journal" onshington this friday morning. we will be back in a moment. booktv on c-span2 has topped nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up this july 4 weekend,

saturday at 11:00 p.m. eastern, ira republican senator joni ernst talks about her journey from growing up in iowa to being the first female combat veteran in the u.s. senate in her memoir, "daughter of the heartland," and then on sunday, a live conversation with retired admiral -- author of several books including commander at sea, destroyer captain, and sailing true north. join the conversation with your phone calls, emails and tweets. in her memoir dale -- dare to fly, martha mcsally reflects on her military career. eastern, pulitzer prize-winning washington post reporter mary jordan on the life and influence of first lady melania trump from her book "the art of her deal."

she is interviewed by susan page. watch booktv on c-span2 this weekend. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from just outside of philadelphia is rich thau, the moderator of the swing state voter project. good morning. thanks very much for being with us. guest: great to be with you. host: so who is a swing voter, and are there voters in 2020 in this presidential race? guest: the way we are defining swing voters -- people who voted obama in 12 and trumpian 16 or romney in 12 and clinton in 16. host: you are also the founder of engage us, which does what? rich thau -- as you look at the campaign, what are you hang from the

democrats and the white house and the trump campaign? good job ofa pretty staying away from the campaigns and focusing on the voters themselves. we conduct focus groups each month as part of the swing state voter project to hear what these voters in the upper midwest and florida are they can the candidates and the campaign. host: we began our first hour looking at a number of polls and essentially saying a majority of americans are in a sour mood. most americans are more pessimistic about the country than optimistic. is that what you are seeing when you talk to these focus groups? guest: absolutely. most recently i was doing focus groups with swing voters in theory, pennsylvania, and when i asked them what one mood they have been feeling the most in the past week they told me depressed, anxious, frustrated -- there are a lot of very sour people out there and understandably so. host: very county is important to understand because it had

gone democratic every year from 1988 until 2016 and then flipped to vote for donald trump. this is a working-class, blue-collar economy that has become a focus in 2020 in terms of a swing county in a swing state. exactly. the locations we have chosen for the swing state voter project has been across states like minnesota, i look, wisconsin, ohio, pennsylvania, and florida, and we have gone to specific counties that flipped from obama to trump. the counties that are most important to the campaign and for the outcome of the election. host: let's look at some of those states. realclearpolitics averages out the polls in those battleground states. right now, a snap shot of where things stand four months before the election. in florida, the president is

42.5% compared to 49% for joe biden. in pennsylvania, the president is at about 42%. joe biden is at 48.7%. in wisconsin, the president at 42%. biden at 48.5%. the president is down in north carolina at 44.2% compared to 47.2% for joe biden, and in arizona, a state the president won easily, he is down at 42.3% compared to just 48 -- over 40% for joe biden. a lot can happen between now and then. as a snap shot, what do these numbers tell you about the mood of voters? guest: it tells me the voters are somewhat frustrated with president trump. what i have been uncovering is quite interesting in the swing state voter project, which is for the first 15 months of the project when i asked the obama-trump voters who they sided with in a hypothetical

matchup between obama and trump -- they voted for both candidates and hypothetically running against each other, who do they vote for, disproportionately, two thirds for the first 16 months they would have taken president trump. six obama-trump voters, three romney-clinton voters. splitx obama-trump voters for biden. time i hade first heard a lot more negativity about president trump than i had heard in the previous 15 months. to me, perhaps it will be a focal point as we look at back at this once it is over, but most of the obama-trump voters i have spoken to still have very strong reasons and great passion for supporting president trump, and i would not count president trump out of this at all. we are four months out from the

election. in four months ago we could not have imagined where we are now, and four months from now we what anok back and say incredible additional four months we have had before this election. there is no way of knowing how this will happen and how things will play out and anyone that counts out president trump now is making the mistake, and anyone that counts out joe biden is making a mistake. from my perspective, one of the reasons i am doing this project is when people with the morning after the election, no one is shocked by the outcome. we could be a static or despondent, but we should not be shocked. host: do you think we will know the results the morning after the election? there is an indication it could be a few days, maybe up to a week before the race has been called. it is important to prepare the american people for a lack of a result election night and it is because of exactly what you said -- the millions of mail-in ballots will take time to be counted. they cannot be counted until the election is over.

if that is the case, we should prepare ourselves for up to a week or maybe more until we know what the outcome is, and the idea that someone is ahead on election night meaning they will win, i would dispel the notion. it could be as someone is ahead from what is known on election night and it shifts the other way and it does not mean something has been done that is wrong, but the ballots could shift the other way and it takes some time to count them. the: we put numbers on screen and anytime you see polling numbers that makes headlines, the when you are doing a focus group -- a much smaller group of individuals, may be upwards of 12 people, but you are looking more for the mood of the voters, not necessarily how they will cast a ballot, correct? swing state voter project what i am -- guest: what i am trying to understand is why -- why do they hold the opinions they hold and views of the candidates. i am trying to understand how they are approaching things, not how many people are approaching things.

so, from my perspective, the importance of the focus group is to see how people are thinking through things, how current events are affecting their importantly, most to be able to share that information publicly with the country so that people are not just looking at poll numbers but listening to the voices of people. one of the things that inspired me to create the swing voter project in march of last year was to recognize that in 20 we looked at a lot of polling and a to of folks did not listen the people that determined the outcome of the election. swingvoterproject .com you can see the videos from the focus groups we have done from start to finish broken into bite sized chunks by topic. they are completely transparent in terms of the information we have gathered from these respondents and anyone can question me about it and i am more than happy to engage them.

i want the public to hear the voices of the people who the last time i thought were under-heard in the national conversation. host: we are talking with rich tell who is with the swing voter project. if you are an undecided --rich thau from the swing state voter project. if you are an undecided voter we would like to hear from you. with you thise headline, "penciling swing voters look to shake up for votersty," writing swing tell us they're are gravitating to joe biden less as a change as a path that that -- back to stability. is that a fair assessment? guest: i think that is a fair assessment. alexy is a wonderful reporter. swings been covering voters from the start. i think from my perspective, she

sat through those sessions -- we did two sessions each with those year he voters and that is basically what they told us, what she reported in axios. cast give us one voter who a ballot for obama in 2012, flipped to trumpian 2016 -- what did he or she tell you? guest: that is a great question. they are not uniform. i would describe them as change voters. i sometimes describe them as serial presidential monogamous -- monogamous. a lot of them fell in love with bush, voted for him for eight years, got tired of him, flipped over to obama. they had eight years of that, wanted more change, and they voted for trump. changee basically voters, perpetually dissatisfied with how things end for the previous president and go on to the next. with obama-trump voters in

particular, they voted for president trump for one of two reasons -- some of it was an anti-hillary vote, and some of it was a pro-trump vote. there are people that really thought the last campaign was a choice between the lesser of two evils and they could not stand hillary clinton so they chose donald trump as a default. other people chose donald trump because they liked him better -- it was not the lesser of two evils -- they liked what he was offering. i would say based on my experience in interviewing them, the anti-hillary voters are the ones more likely to bell on president trump because he is not running against hillary clinton again and joe biden is someone easier for them to engage -- embrace. the ones that were more pro-trump initially are still more pro--trump, but in area i was starting to hear some comments that even his supporters are starting to doubt his ability to lead the way he wanted -- they wanted him to

lead. they wanted someone who was a disruptor, who shakes things up, a businessman, and those are all attributes that are important to them, and they got a number of those things, but in the current context of the way the economy is going and the social unrest, some of them, -- for some of them, the president's way of communicating is more than they had bargained for. host: we are talking to rich thau, from the swing state voter project. a line set aside for those undecided or swing voters. first, we go to larry joining us from college point, new york, on our booking line. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say i am very optimistic about donald trump. forstly, i always voted donald trump, and i voted for obama, but this year i am voting for trump because the media has

been so cruel to him. they all say negative things about him. they never show all the positive work that he is doing to bring us to the top of the mountain. for example, yesterday, cnn -- donald trump was giving a press conference about the jobs report, cnn was not even showing it. they just want to show all the negative things about him and he is really doing his best. that is why i am voting for donald trump this coming up election. host: thank you for the call. rich thau, he brings up the point of the media. the old axiom, attack the messenger, and the president has been quick to divide the country with cnn and msnbc versus fox and one american news. guest: what we heard now is something, and i heard from swing voters -- a massive mistrust of the media. they think everyone has an

agenda. that definitely plays into the president's hands for people that are inclined to support him because they don't feel like the president is getting a fair shake. again, it is not for me to comment on whether i think that is the case or not. i hear an awful lot of it from the respondents in the focus group. the other quick point i want to make is the kind of people that i interview when these focus groups are typically not watching c-span and they are not watching cnn, fox, and msnbc. there are a small percentage that do, but most are getting their news from local news sources, so the knowledge of the day to day movement in the political story is fairly moderate. this is a thing for viewers to keep in mind. these are not able to tell me they get their news from c-span. host: jerry. glendale, illinois. you are undecided you are a swing voter? caller: good morning.

thank you for having me on and for c-span. my two questions -- i don't want to waste a lot of time, the first one is voter turnout -- what he is hearing from people, whether they will not bode at all because we know at least 30% to 40% of the people don't vote in presidentials, so will they drop out, and then the thing, because i am undecided, does he hear anything about third parties? we have not heard any choices other than these two. host: jerry, can you stay on the line? please don't hang up, we will get a response and then i want to come back to you. regarding voting and turnout this year and the enthusiasm, i think it is going to be high. . i think a lot of people have very strong feelings on one side or the other, and as a result of that, we are going to see if not a record number of people, a

very large number of people who vote, but you will also see record numbers of people voting by mail. at lines may not be as long the polling places, but there will be awful lot of people in the end to have cast votes. host: you an undecided swing voter, i would --representative, --rich thau, i am going to ask what you would ask someone like jerry who is undecided. . guest: sure. i would ask a variety of topics -- how do you feel about how the president is doing right now, what have you heard from him lately, what you think of the way joe biden is running his campaign, what have you heard from him lately, and how do you go about making a decision between the two of them? what consideration is foremost in your mind as you go and think about i could vote for either one of them? other than flipping a coin, how will you make that decision.

host: jerry, you are still with us. how do you answer the question? caller: i am old enough to know joe biden for 40 years, so that is a tough call for me, however if trump continues on this path of overselling everything and the economy doesn't really come back like he thinks it will, that is a real challenge. biden ruined the economy because somebody else will be telling him what to do most of the time --that is the way i feel about it. he is just a figurehead, and the democratic party will basically tell him what to do, versus trump, who is in charge and is telling the republican party this is really what i want to have happen. it is a really tough call for me to see, and i would probably be a person that waits until into october before i make up my mind what i am going to do because i would love to vote for a third -party person. i know howard schultz dropped

out. i really liked him, from starbucks, but he is gone, and i don't see anybody else between these two coming up, so if we are stuck with these two i will vote, but i will wait until october to really decide which is the worst and which one i have to live with for four more years. , what is rich thau your follow-up to jerry? guest: if the election was today, who would you vote for? caller: i would vote for trump. host: thank you for playing along with us. let's move on to betty, from virginia, -- virginia beach, virginia. you are on with rich thau. good morning. caller: good morning, and happy for to everybody. i am a democrat and i know everybody is not a democrat, but it is astounding to me how anybody could still vote for this trump.

i mean i have never liked anything he has done. i have been always against him. biden was my pick from the very beginning and i voted for him in and after this last news about him not doing anything when putin was paying off people to kill us -- how could anybody in their right vote for this monster after the he did something like that -- after he did something like that? and it mightor, not be the legal definition of treasonous, but it is treasonous. the republican governors will probably try to suppress the votes of the minorities, and also another thing that i hear is even if he loses, even if joe wins overwhelmingly with the

electoral college in the popular vote, that he will still try to hang on to power, and i don't know what the constitution how he could do that. anyway, that is all i have to say. thank you. host: thank you for the call. guest: did you want me to comment on that? host: if you could, please. guest: obviously, she is not a swing voter. herone thing i would ask and people on both sides who are very dug in for their candidate is to try to make an effort, maybe this july 4 weekend since we are doing things in the spirit of patriotism, work hard to understand why people who are diametrically opposed to them politically hold the views that they do. one of the things we have seemed to have lost in this country is the ability to listen to what another and understand one another. i am honored to do the swing voter project because every month i get to listen to

americans and understand what they are thinking and why they are thinking it. it is important to us to try to understand why a democrat, for example, holds the views he or she holds, why republicans hold the views she holds, and wife we work a little bit -- why we work a little harder to have more of a dialogue in this country. host: the president looking at the stock market, in a tweet a few minutes ago, he wrote "the nasdaq had its 20. record close of the year. other exchanges are close behind. coming up inre next you, depending on an election win, will be one of the ." t ever host: my question is how much does the stock market come up in your conversation with these voters? guest: it comes up in the context of economic security and retirement security, so for some of the respondents who have

retirement savings, how their investments are doing does matter. that does come up in the conversation. that leaves out half of the country that owns no stock. it is a segment of the population for whom it is important, that i would not say it is the majority. host: for those listening to c-span radio, our conversation with rich thau. he is with the swing state project as he travels to battleground states to decide who voters will vote for. joni is next from pennsylvania. line for republicans. good morning. good morning. caller: thank you for having me. i will never vote for trump. my mind is made up. i think he is ruining our democracy. the foundation of our democracy is at stake. land, butve in trump that is how i feel -- it is trump land or nobody else.

he lies that i cannot understand how somebody could actually vote for him and think they are doing the right thing. he is not a republican at all. he has not shown his tax returns. he told john mccain he was not a war hero because he got caught he has his little children in the white house with him -- who does that? 25 people executive orders that they can get top secret security. they could not work at a bank but they got top secret security clearance because executive order did it. all roads lead to russia. host: thanks for the call. let's get a response. guest: so, what i would say is part of what is important now is to understand why people didn't vote for president trump and why they continue to support him. -- did vote for president trump and why they continue to support him. obviously the most recent caller does not support him, but let me tell you why --

host: we lost audio for just a moment. we're talking with rich thau with the swing state voter project joining sv is him. we will reconnect with him. let's go to glenn join us in birmingham, alabama. caller: good morning. it is so good to be on with you. you are always one of my favorites. good to see you this morning. host: thank you for joining us. caller: i wanted to ask the gentleman -- with police brutality, as a black woman, that is when i want to listen in. i want to know how many african-americans were in your focus group, if racism was brought up, if confederate my -- monuments were brought up. let me say this, african americans are going to vote -- we're going to turn out because we have seen so much insecurity in what is going on right now that george floyd brought a lot

to the forefront. to be very, very important to black people right now. thank you. good seeing you steve. host: are you still with us? caller: yes, i am here. host: quick question, who do you want joe biden to select as his running mate? woman, but i black see a lot of women, regardless of race. i like the governor of new mexico. i love whitmer. she is one of my favorites. i love tammy baldwin in wisconsin, and i also love duckworth in illinois. it does not matter about race with me. i just want a woman so we could have a woman president one day. thank you. host: thank you for the call. rich thau, what are you hearing from her? guest: well, to answer her

question, in our last focus group we had nine respondents, two of them were african-american women. i would encourage her to go to swing -- swing-voter -- swingvoterproject.com. across the swath of the project we have great representation among african-american respondents. they have been phenomenal, as all of our respondents have been. the thing i heard in the area from the swing voters as they thought that the death of george floyd was horrific. they were all of them, to a person, deeply troubled by it. i also heard the potential for people to be sympathetic to overreach on the part of the protest, and frustration that protesters are out protesting, but they themselves were missing funerals, graduations, weddings, because they had to stay in the house.

i picked up some strains of pent-up resentment among some of the respondents. a couple of them were upset with nascar for taking down the confederate flag even though they live in the north. i think president trump perhaps understands this about the people who voted for him the last time, that in order to keep them engaged he might continue to play upon those frustrations. it, to me -- it is not necessarily an either or. you can be both extremely upset about the death of george floyd and also think that protesters have gone too far. host: if you are an undecided or swing voter, 202-748-8002. we are talking to rich thau of the swing voter project, and on your website one of the questions you asked the voters in western pennsylvania, the president's decision not to wear a mask in public. in a word or a phrase, what you hear from those voters? guest: they were very upset.

they thought he was not setting a good example, they thought he was arrogant and used a number of other choice words to describe how they thought about his not wearing a mask. nearly to a person they thought it was a bad idea. host: we go to earnest on our undecided swing voter line from decatur, georgia. you are on the air with rich thau. caller: i am from decatur. i need to know how do you know people took civics in their college classes and how many were educated voters. said theyrant that keep the voter on a fifth-grade education. the reason i am undecided, i'm a vietnam veteran, and i don't see to doats doing anything outreach for black the unum veterans and veterans that are suffering and we still do not have the permanent right to vote

as people of color, and i'm a native american, and i see the disrespect that goes on both sides from the republicans and the democrats, and another thing am going torus -- i lay it on an epidemiologist to make a decisions to do the stuff they are going to do, and how can anyone decide to go at the moment because i don't think we have a decisive person that can stand up and bring this country out of the dilemma that donald trump has put us in. another thing, his first lady is not from the u.s.. she is from a communist part of the world, and how many of the people that he looked at the side that communism could be our fight. host: let me go back to his first point, which is the education level of the voters you are talking to. just how informed are they? guest: first i want to think the caller for his service to our country.

in terms of their level of education, there are two issues -- how educated they are formally and they range from high school education to graduate degrees, and also how informed are they about what is going on the country, and i would describe not all, but it segment of these folks as fairly low-information voters. the me give you an example. i would asked people what they know about joe biden, and they would tell me he was obama's vice president and what else do you know about him, and i would get blank stares. what job did he have before he was obama's vice president? blank stares. what state is he from? blank stares. there is very superficial knowledge of what -- of people that are very visible in american politics. i would describe joe biden as a blank slate. they don't know his bio and the little things they know about

him tend to be negative, the things trump have said about him. --terms of his biography can biography, it is not well known and that is a potential liability when people have to choose between something they know and some they view as a link slate. host: and president trump referring to biden as sleepy joe and the campaign questioned his cognitive skills, and earlier this week in pennsylvania, the president responded. [video clip] vice president biden: i can hardly wait to compare my cognitive capability to the cognitive capability of the man i am running against. host: how much would this be an issue, the age of the candidates, particularly joe biden? be an i think it will issue. among these swing voters, the obama-trump voters, who are looking for a reason to vote for president trump, having a

negative thing to hang their hat on about joe biden to help justify their vote for president this given the headwinds president and the country faces, i think it will be quite profound. it is going to matter, and i think joe biden anticipates this and is speaking about it already, but if you watch the ads from the trump campaign, they are already questioning bidens mental acuity, and i think that will continue, and every time joe biden the states, the president will pounce on it, but i think biden will do the same thing with trump. it will be a battle between 270 something's where a lot of the country will wonder about the fitness of both of them. chris, an undecided voter in miami, florida. 2i-4 waiting period good morning. -- thank you for waiting. good morning. -- t: i do not like caller: i do not like the

president's demeanor and but i'm wondering if your focus group has said it you support taxpayer-funded medical coverage for undocumented people. joe biden raised his hand. i'm not for that. the support school choice that benefits minorities. joe biden is i guess -- against that it i wonder democrats to realize some of the stances he is taken it would not really be in their self-interest. not a big fan of trump's demeanor, but i do like his policies. that is something that comes up all the time. people separate out president trump's tweeting, for example, which they almost universally a poor from his policies, many of which they really like. we just talked about subsidies for undocumented people in the united states. that is something that the people in the focus groups are adamantly against, and when

president trump we would not let immigrants into the u.s. during the pandemic, every single respondent and my focus group -- i think we were doing it in iowa that month, completely in support of it and that policy. the president understands what are the hot button issues for people, and manages to communicate that in a way that to thely quite centered things that matter to these swing voters, and i think as the campaign wears on, the president, if he relies more on the policies that he thinks have benefited his supporters, they are likely to stick with him, regardless of his demeanor. host: on that point, michael with this tweet -- "so, emotion is going to drive the average voter?" how do you respond? guest: emotion is what drives people's decision-making. read are not people that

long campaign statements from both sides and read the pros and cons of on a list side by side in a piece of paper and job them out. most of them visceral and emotional decision -- how does this candidate make you feel? in of the questions i ask the focus group is what is the one emotion you feel when you see president trump on tv, and that gives me a huge insight into the way they view him and how they will vote. how do someone make you keel -- feel? which president would you rather sit down and have a beer with, there are a lot of people still sticking with president trump, and some people that have moved from -- to joe biden among my swing voters and we will see how it plays out. host: alicia is joining us from columbia, maryland. another swing voter. good morning. caller: good morning, steve, and your guests, and my fellow americans.

until whatto wait joe biden says as well as the and i will probably decide until the last month. i think one of the reasons -- i tried to be as fair as i can be, am undecidedow, i -- not undecided, i am independent, so i vote for the left and democrats, and i vote for the right, the republicans. i try to pick out would do the best job for our country. that my fellow americans are so unhappy, and they are missing that they

ruined my country. host: four u.s. someone who will not decide until october, how important will the conventions or even more important, the debates be in making up your decision making up your mind? caller: those will be very important. i want to see how quick joe biden will be on his feet. steve, i don't know who is responsible for the programs that come on on the covid with the medical briefings as well as having the hearings. i am sorry, steve, i am in my 80's now, and i am not quick on my feet anymore so i hesitate a lot.

briefings and at 4:00, and on this morning it went until 6:40 a.m. now, who on earth, even on eastern time is barely awake at that hour, and people who are already -- those that have gone on -- back to work or who have been working, they're just getting started. host: i can answer that part rich thau, but then i want to go back to about his response about the debates in the role they will play, what you were watching was a rehearing of one of the event. in our overnight schedule because we are on a various time zones we re-air those because there are people that work different shifts and may not have seen it live. as a reminder, it is all on her

website at c-span.org. the earlier question i asked her, the importance of the debate -- she said they would be critical. what are you hearing from those voters who may still be undecided? from: judging what i know these voters, i am not fully confident they will watch much of the debates. when i asked them about other events from the democratic debates, for example, most of them had not watched those, did not know the candidates very -- terribly well. the people that i interview in these groups say it is their civic response believed to vote, i often get frustrated personally because of what they don't know about politics and policy because of where they are getting their news and the kinds of news they consume. i am not judging whether it is left or right, that i'm judging whether it is enough or too much and it definitely means towards not enough. host: larry, cocoa beach, florida. i am independent.

i was a registered republican for 44 years, and last year i changed to democrat so i would have options of voting independent. for the person that i think is going to represent america in the strongest light, and i usually wait until the last month to vote. a registered for the male-in vote because i am retired and disabled, but i have not received anything back to indicate that i will be able to veryby mail, so i am distrustful and very unhappy. host: larry. thank you for the call. let's go to lisa, one more caller, also an undecided voter from smithfield, virginia. what is on your mind? caller: yes, the three blind

mice have been gone a long time ago. from day one, donald trump -- obama prompted donald trump to change one or two words. somebody has to do good dig in. it was the republican party that found donald trump guilty of money laundering. you can see all of the good evidence right before your eyes. it just is not right what is going on to try to claim the democrats are not doing this. party -- they work together. that is the thing you are missing. they work together. host: lisa, thank you for the call from virginia. there seems to be a theme, rich thau, that a lot of these voters will not decide until october. is that typical or unusual based on your experience? guest: i think there is a

willingness to say you are not going to decide until october, youif you ask people who are going to vote for and he said trump, people are leaning -- it is not a peer 50/50 decision. -- question is whether they the person they are leaning toward now is the person they will vote for, but there are very few people that are coin-toss level undecided. host: bottom line, a focus group tells you what? guest: the focus group tells you what people are thinking and why they are thinking it. it enables us to get inside people's heads and understand how they are thinking through the question of who to vote for, how things are going in the country, what kind of future they want as opposed to knowing how many people believe something, which is what you find in a poll. host: more details on the swing voter project website. background, in the

what does that focus group tell you, your wedding picture? guest: it tells us i'm very happily married for the last 20 years. host: and you get credit for having the picture behind you. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you, steve. bet: if you are traveling, safe to continue our conversation. henry olsen will join us from the ethics and public policy center to talk about the president, covid-19, and campaign 2020. you are watching and listening to c-span's "washington journal. friday, the third of july. >> this fourth of july weekend, president trump is that mount rushmore tonight at 10:00 p.m. evening -- 10:00 p.m. eastern saturday for what is built

as a celebration of america. listen live wherever you are on the free c-span radio app. american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and the events that tell the american story every weekend. coming up this weekend saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern, a discussion on the declaration of independence origins, purpose, and global significance during and after the american revolution with university of maryland's history professor richard bell. sunday at four clock p.m. eastern on real america, the 1970 film fresh colors detailing first jobrefugee's upon arriving in the night states, hired to create a film about "-- about the american flag using his own narration,

animation, and archival footage. essex equipped him, a tour of the museum of the american revolution with president and ceo michael quinn discussing the museum's history, design, and what he calls the crown jewel, george washington's camp tent. the american story -- watch american history tv this weekend on c-span three. >> "washington journal" continues. host: join us in washington is henry olsen, senior fellow at ethics and public policy center. good friday morning. thank you for being with us. guest: thanks for having me on. host: he has been referred to as teflon don, bouncing back from bad tweets or that new spirit how do you view the president four months before the election? guest: i think he is in a weakened position.

he has slumps and bumps. he is in his most extended slump since 2017 and he has not seen a bump. i think a stick figure out how to get back on the track and he needs to figure out how to project calm, stable leadership that america wants in a crisis. he has not been doing it and that is why he has been slumping. time does he have enough to turn things around? guest: he has enough time, especially given what your previous guest talked about, the lack of serious, in-depth knowledge about his opponent, joe biden, but he has to change his game -- he cannot be the same, divisive, tweeting person that he has been in the next few months that he has been the last few years. he has to be able to roll with the punches and go with the flow . if you can't do that, he might bounce back a little bit, but he is not going to win this election host:. in a recent washington post op-ed you wrote the following,

"he tweets versus something objectionable, his numbers drop, then bounce back where they were before the event. in theppened three times 2016 race, most notably after the release of the excess hollywood tape that many thought ruined his candidacy. it has also happened numerous notedsince 2018 when he pardoning his former campaign chairman, paul manafort are in the government shutdown, during the summer months of 2019, as he took on the squat, and then later in the fall as impeachment became a reality. trump weathered each storm and bounce back a strong or stronger than he previously been. what is different about this time? nott: the president has stepped back. what typifies some of these times is a moment of some contrition, like after access where he, or a period

is not the person making news with his attacks. the other times or more normal politics. what we are looking at now is two national crises and an thetity crises, and president has not provided the sort of decisive leadership and often uses those as examples or platforms of which to launch into a petulance and grievance-based assault on the media. that is not what americans wanted when he stops doing that, i will -- i think he will start to see his numbers come back. there is a story that a number of senior aides and cabinet members of the george w. bush administration are prepared to publicly support joe biden. what is that tell you about the state of the republican party? guest: two things. the 43 for joe biden campaign, which is what you are referring to, there is nobody that is significant that has yet to put the name on it, they are minor officials in the w.

administration. i think what it does tell us is there is a minority of people in the republican party that want the people to move. in a different direction the bulk of the party voters might might -- but they want people to move on. people involved in the administration disagree and they would rather choose to switch parties and said with democrats than work with fellow republicans. of thes us an example possibility of a small realignment going on with respect to republicans who really were not that into seriously challenging the democratic-led establishment. host: in the story that broke journal"e "wall street website, peter thiel shying away from the 2020 trump campaign. he is a venture capitalist, the co-finder of paypal, but is telling friends and supporters

that he plans to sit out the election because he thinks real action is increasingly a long shot for the president. when you hear that, your reaction? guest: peter is a very idiosyncratic individual, so i think this is in keeping with his past performance and past pattern, but he is right. it is very difficult to see a path for reelection for the president. it requires the president to change his game, changes style very quickly in a way that he is do.proven able to if i were peter thiel and i were making an investment based on the odds, i would be making the same beds that he makes -- bets that he makes. host: and we are talking about those republicans are aligned with democrats -- george conway, conway,and of kellyanne part of the lincoln project, and this latest ad after the revelation from the "new york times" that there may have been evidence of russians pain

taliban troops. navy graduate, x navy seal, and the founder of veterans for responsible leadership. months ago, donald learned russians were paying bounties for dead american soldiers in afghanistan. it.hose to do nothing about any commander in chief with a spine would be stopping the of the--shit out russians right now. mr. trump, you are either a coward who cannot stand up to an x kgb goon, or you are complicit. --ake the left, done-owning gun-owning veteran. i see trump for what he is, a coward. we need to send this coward back to -- this draft dodger back to his golf courses. adt: your reaction to that

in the larger issue of this effort by the lincoln project. guest: it strikes me as a demagogue word salad. strains belief to think that president joe biden would be asymmetrically engaging russia in warfare over this when, in fact, that is not what large nationstates do. did duringhat obama the obama administration, or as he likes to say during the obama-biden administration. it is another attempt to throw mud at the wall and see what sticks. i think the lincoln project is not very effective. i think there are no serious republicans, people who are still republicans that would be moved by ads like this. what it is doing, mainly, is providing air cover in the media for joe biden, but it is not going to have any effect on the

ground, which is to say if you are basically a pro-life conservative republican, you are very likely to be backing trump, even reluctantly, and the lincoln project is not making an impact. host: brad pascal, the manager, incampaign an op-ed published in "the washington post," and available online, taking aim at the biden campaign and trying to frame the election this way. he wrote the following "'s bush ratings file to the lowest point, that red a headline in the new york times. a fraughtdescribed atmosphere among the electorate with growing angst over the iraq war and concerns over domestic security. 16 years later president trump faces the same headlines. his reelection campaign is well-positioned to spread his progrowth economic agenda and contrast to the president to a 47-year career politician joe

biden. your reaction. guest: i think that it's a nice way to frame the election, but there are two issues. the president's job approval rating is at 41%. george w. bush's job approval rating was nowhere close to as low as that in june or july of 2004. the president needs to change himself noted to move up, then he becomes credible talking about things like the economy, talking about things like the biden record, talking about things like if you still want washington shaken up, why should you trust someone who has spent his entire adult life in washington. if the president doesn't establish his own credibility, all of those contrasts will not wash with the undecided voter that will decide the election. host: the me go back to brad pascal and what he wrote in "washington post," "biden, like

hillary clinton in 2016, is been a central part of the washington system that voters opposed in 20 and are doing so again. is near half-century-long medical career is littered with terrible decisions that have had disastrous effects on the american middle class over the past four decades. the campaign, writes brad pascoe, has only just did -- has begun to define biden, a 47 year politician whose actions have decimated american working families and betrayed black americans. guest: president trump needs make this a choice -- president biden needs to make this a choice selection. if it would have been a referendum on obama, it could have been much closer we could've seen a romney victory, but by look -- my saying it is about a choice, which direction do you want, people voted for

obama. the thing is the president needs to do this himself. he needs to be disciplined. he needs to be focused, and he needs to present an alternative that is acceptable, and that alternative has to be somebody that isn't snark tweeting his 24/7, three headed 65, and actually acts like the president. if he does that and shows people that he has grown in office, he is the credibility to make this attack, otherwise it will not be seen as credible by the key voters who are going to decide the election. those key voters, the book you wrote in 2017, the working-class republicans, ronald reagan, and the return of blue-collar conservatives, where were those voters? guest: they are still largely behind trump, but not in large enough numbers to provide him the victory. he needs to get his numbers up among those and his numbers among what i call the reluctant

trump voters, the college educated, suburban, moderate, conservative voter decided in late october even though they had misgivings about trump they would vote for him over hillary clinton because they preferred his policies. inse voters voted democrat 2018, and those voters remain uncomfortable with the president . if he can't win those voters back and increases numbers among his blue collar conservative base, the we are just talking about the margin of victory for biden -- then we are talking about the margin of victory for biden. host: we are talking with henry olsen. calls.et to your phone republican line, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. i know a number of people have been calling in and saying president trump is incompetent handling the coronavirus. i wanted to refute that. back in february, the house was notified about the coronavirus, and they chose to it nor it

because they -- to ignore it because they were in the impeachment hearings and and beforey -- oh, that, tom cotton, republican senator, is the one who told us first about the virus. he was plagiarized for that. subsequently, a number of , through insider trading, sold their family and ends and sold off all of their possibly its to downfall, and i remember dianne feinstein said, it's not my fault. my husband did it. could you comment on these two things? host: thank you. henry olsen? guest: i think a lot of the criticism of the president's handling of coronavirus is partisanship. he would have been distracting the country from the important

questions of impeachment and ukrainegate. win with a large segment of the national media. i watched every democratic debate, particularly for 2020, and i do not recall any of those people talking about the coronavirus coming. it was so obvious, as it is being reported now, why weren't they talking about it? it was not obvious. it was a difficult decision. i think the president has got the response pretty reasonably well. host: does the president have self-discipline -- self-discipline? not shown it. he likes to spew his messages. he likes to think in terms of 24-hour, 40 a eight-hour media cycle, rather 48-hour media-- cycle, rather than a large effort to bring a point home and

he has not shown signs of changing his stripes. host: the article linking russia kill a troops,o yourounty story, what is thought? examplehis is another of a moderately reported or moderately sourced story blown up to bring problems for president trump. this is a pattern throughout his administration. why should we expected to change? do you do?ue, what what would president biden do? i do not think president biden would do more than deliver a stern rebuke to putin and minor sanctions because, quite likely, that is not something presidents -- that is what presidents do. i don't think president biden would have used this to bring

the intact -- break the entire structure of the u.s.-russia relationship, particularly because that is not something our european allies would have wanted. i think this story is likely overblown, but even if it's not, i don't think the risk wants would have been what the media is suggesting it would be because that's not what presidents do. the: in this case, president did not think him is did not know about it. his written daily brief. apparently he did not read it. is that damaging? i would say what is the national security adviser telling them? what is the secretary of state telling him? he is not the only one who reads these briefs. if his national security apparatus is not coming to him and saying, this is important. we are going to elevate this from a fact in a paper to an action point that needs to be prioritized, that puts an entirely different ballpark, and the fact that you are not

hearing that, you're not hearing that his nsa's remaking appointed that, you are not hearing that the command in afghanistan was saying, please pay attention to that, suggests to me this story is overblown. host: but could it damage the president? that narrative for donald trump? guest: i think it can hurt donald trump for people who have artie convince themselves they don't what donald trump. i do not think it will scare people -- you have already convince themselves they don't want donald trump. i do not think it will scare people who support trump. i do not think it will sway undecided people. , this is hishiff reaction to the story, with subsequent briefings from the trump white house. [video clip] rep. schiff: as we look at these -- i am going to call them allegations -- number one, the president of the united states

should not be inviting russia into the g7 or g8. we should be considering what sanctions are appropriate to further deter russia's malign activities, not further ingratiating russia into the community of civilized nations. and i find it inexplicable, in light of these very public allegations, that the president has not come before the country and assured the american people he will get to the bottom of whether russians are putting a bounty on the heads of american troops and he will do everything in his power to protect american troops. i do not understand why the president is not saying this to the american people and is i don't know, i haven't heard, i haven't been briefed. that's not excusable. his responsibility as commander-in-chief is to protect our troops. i show the concern with the white house today, that i think many of us have, which is there may be a reluctance to brief the

president on things he does not want to hear. that may be more true with respect to putin and putin's russia than with respect to any other subject matter. that is adam schiff, the chair of the house intelligence committee. henry olsen, your reaction? guest: more politics. this is a man who exaggerated every piece of fact that comes to him with respect to the president's actions with foreign policy. who helped empower putin? ,t was the obama administration saying that the bush administration was too tough on putin. it was the obama administration who refuse to provide legal aid to the ukrainians. please, don't tell me you were tough on russia unless you are criticizing your own party' is present at the time for actions that enabled putin to rebuild the russian military and become the adventurer he is.

host: good morning. caller: good morning. -- [indiscernible] without electing a black woman or whatever -- i think you should nominate mr. goes tosomeone who putin. if we don't have a strong background with putin, we can't win. i know he goes to bed laughing. we are acting so stupid with president trump, it seems like putin, putin, putin. if we don't have a good background with our secretary and our vice president as regards mr. putin, we are going to be in the same predicament we are with president trump. biden is nice, but still he is

going to have to stand up and not let obama, al sharpton push him to elect a black woman in order to win president. i have been a democrat all my life, but i am not going to vote for him if he goes for a woman to be vice president. . hate to be that way our country is in a bad way now. we don't have anything for our children. we have children that are coming up to run this country and if we don't get some kind of respect now, we aren't going to have any more. they laugh at us going to bed and they wake up in the morning laughing at us. palmetto,k you, from floor to. ats is an opinion piece bloomberg news. flood room putin able to stay in power until 2036. the headline -- the west consistently undermines --

underestimates his willingness to take extreme risks. next project -- building a buffer zone around russia. your thoughts? guest: i think the west needs to think what it was to do with russia. russia is clearly trying to re-exert power, both their near , regimesd overseas like venezuela, sending its submarines to test nato differences in the north atlantic. but china is the country that is nearly nine times as large as russia. it is building its military faster. nuclearilding strategic forces and it is the country that in a decade will pose much more of a threat to us than russia. i think a smart strategy would be to think, what role are we going to assign to russia? enemy?y an implacable

are they an untrustworthy, but still valuable ally. that is something that russia and america needs to confront. we need to build up our military so we can fight two fronts at once. the european front against russia and the pacific front against china and that will be very difficult to sell to the american people. this is the headline from fox.com. "russia just pave the way for putin to be president for life." louisiana. you are on. caller: good morning. i am a 79-year-old white guy from louisiana. ever time i listen to mr. olson, i agree with him more. it's like he's when to say what i am thinking. a couple points -- is such a terrible thing, if you go back -- if the, coronavirus is such a terrible thing, if you go back to march 4, mrs. pelosi, they were all at

the hall of fame at march 4. that was a problem men. about one other thing i want to put up. here is what i think about america. we are sheep without a shepherd. we don't know how to be alone. so we wander around this desert, following the wrong gods home. but the flock cries out for another, and they keep answering that bell. i do not know who the messiah is going to be. we can only put up with so much and is going to come to an end. i think this pretty white house capitol behind you, steve, that is getting to be like a brothel. it's really getting -- republicans and democrats. host: hey, ken. thanks because the next time we will have you sing that song. don't be a stranger. first-time caller. henry olsen?

think there were a lot of people angry at both parties. that is one thing you could discern from brad persky all -- parscale's article you read earlier. he wants to channel that anger. the president needs to show he is a capable leader who can channel that if he wants to win the election. host: mike, in toronto, kansas. good morning. steve. good morning, thank you for taking my call. host: we are glad to hear from you. yes, good morning. couple yes, i got a questions. with all the things going on on the streets right now and all the trouble going around the world with the coronavirus -- with the government taking down ae statues, i've got

question. they are taking down lincoln. it's not about the civil war, i don't think, but if it is about the civil war, the democratic party, themselves, they were the ones on the wrong side. how did they end up being the heroes of the black community when lincoln was actually, in the north, was the hero of the black community. there was 400,000 people died in the civil war. how much do you have to give up? host: thank you. things for the call. we will get a response. -- thanks for the call. we will get a response. guest: the black community did vote for the republican party all the way through the first world war. two things changed. one was the great depression, and which great -- in which

blacks lost their jobs in great numbers. and they switched to the democrats. and then the civil rights era of 1964, it was the democrats who were most loudly behind it, and it was a large number of republicans, allied with southern democrats, who tried to stop that. republicans nominated barry goldwater in 1964, who was an opponent of the civil rights act, and that helped set the idea that as bad as them across, in many cases, had been, the remaining blacks who were looking at this started to switch to the democrats who were for the civil rights act of 1964 in the have managed to keep the allegiance of the black community ever since. host: i want to get your reaction. this is a headline from an opinion piece in "the washington post." "john roberts has gone kennedy." justice

retired, a swing vote. the is your view of performance of the chief justice in his recent rulings? guest: yes, i wrote an op-ed on this and which i hypothesize trying toroberts is do is preserve the independence of the court in the face of progressive efforts to pack the court. after the kavanaugh the mission there were specific as anger on the left and you heard arguments that we should expand the number of supreme court justices, and i think with the chief justice may the thinking is, if i can side with them to show it's not an majority on key issues, such as the abortion case in louisiana where he was the deciding vote, they will put packd to their efforts to

the court. we will see over the coming term whether he continues that we will see whether it is successful, whether or not will beo pack the court held in abeyance if the democrats retake control of the senate and the white house. appointed by george w. bush, and during his testimony before the senate judiciary, john roberts using the umpire analogy on how he fuses will as chief justice. let's watch. [video clip] roberts: judges don't make the rules. they apply them. the role of an umpire and the judge is critical. they make sure everybody plays by the rules, but it is a limited role. nobody ever went to a ballgame to see the umpire. the humilityo have to recognize they operate within byystem of precedent shaped other judges equally striving to live up to the judicial oath.

and judges have to have the modesty to be open in the decisional process to be considered views of their colleagues on the bench. host: henry olsen, what are you hearing from john roberts 15 years ago? i am hearing is someone who is not that different than the person he is today. i think the latter phrase "listening to his colleagues on the bench" is particularly important. he would prefer not to be the overturningot precedent set by liberal majorities. that is something he did not want to do, going back to the obamacare case where he was the fifth vote that upheld the constitutionality of obamacare. wherek he would prefer questions have to be decided that there be a consensus and where there's not a consensus, he will defer action to avoid putting the court in a position

of bending preferences, whether it is political preferences or president. that means on certain cases he members of the4 left, because the alternative is, to him, unacceptable. host: we are talking to henry and publicthe ethics policy center. we are speaking to one need a -- from north carolina. caller: good morning. i am 81 years old today, as a matter of fact. host: well, happy birthday. caller: the last three years -- state ofpset at the our country. i did not vote for donald trump. i was not thrilled with the choices i had this election, but i saw in donald trump, what he showed me personally is he is a,

vulgar, offensive, loudmouthed bully, and i could not morally support him. i question the intelligence and judgment of those who do, but that is beside the point. i am left, at this point in my life, coming from an extremely patriotic young woman to a person who hesitates to salute the flag anymore. i do not trust our judiciary, although i think the supreme court is a little more reasonable than i thought they would be. the last debacle of supreme hearings turned me against them. i do not trust our executive branch most of all. i do not trust congress. and i do not trust the judiciary. so, i don't know how many more , but i have on this earth

i am afraid they are going to be sad ones. thank you for taking my call. ta, let's end on a happy note. wishing you a happy 83rd birthday and wishing you many, many more. hearing a lot of anxiety from her comments. guest: in. it's difficult to look at our country and not see a country that is at war with itself. not literal war. but war, whether it is the question of trump's fitness or itling down statues or what means to be an american. it's a difficult time to be an american. and in the absence of a leader who provides a unifying vision that can give people hope, that is something that is likely to continue. you look at vice president biden, and he does not seem to be able to do that, despite having some nice speeches from time to time, and you look at

president trump and he does not seem able to do it. maybe we have to suffer for a few more years. the trump is how campaign is framing one of the newest debates, the issue of defund the police, something we have heard from the marches following the death of george foley. this just released from the camping overnight. [video clip] 911 policerage the light -- you have reached the 911 police line. due to the defunding of police, there is no to take your call. press -- a rape, to report a murder, press -- the estimated wait time is five days. , yourhenry olsen reaction? guest: i think it is an effective ad. moves thee how it

needle. people hear about defunding the police, but it may not be something that affects their own community and you have vice president biden who has distanced himself from those movements. that is one thing biden has done very well, keeping the energy of the left by attacking trump, but defining trump's ability to take fromm by stepping away things like tearing down statues of george washington or defunding the least. it will be difficult to make that message stick if biden continues to step away from the things. host: denise, good morning. you are on with henry olsen. maner: i disagree with this and chief justice john roberts -- he is simply trying to preserve his image in history. both made big mistakes when they made it easy rights over the voter's

act of 1964. it's obvious to them that black votingority people are in the red states over and over again and he is trying to make up for a big mistake that he and alito made. defunding the police does not crap we have just seen. it means we are changing the definition of what we see from the police on the streets today. he is not to be a psychiatrist. he does not have to be a doctor. he cannot be every thing to everyone. change so he will no longer be the bully he has become. and being a bully is exactly the truth. it seems to be a disease that this guyof them, like who murdered the man in

minneapolis, becomes a bully, little by little, all of them start acting in the same fashion . they have ruined the job themselves, and they have only themselves to blame. host: thank you, denise. a lot there. henry olsen? guest: yeah, i think with respect to the police needs to be how do you train them better so they make the right decisions? that is one thing that comes from the atlanta shooting -- honestly, that is the case of someone who made a terrible decision in a moment of panic when he should have been trained not to shoot a fleeing man in the back. with respect to what she was saying about the voting rights decision, there's simply no evidence that black or brown or whatever minority voters are being kept from voting. the is a myth propagated on left as much as voter fraud is a myth prop get on the right.

the fact is we do not have massive voter fraud. we do not have mass voter suppression. we have high turnouts. we have high minority turnouts. actthe voting rights turnover that roberts and alito supported has had no effect on elections whatsoever. down thes need to calm rhetoric because the legitimacy of our elections, ultimately the legitimacy of our democracy -- if we are casting about unjustified claims, all we are doing is tearing down the thing we value most. our next color is from missouri on the independent line. carla, good morning. is fromext caller missouri on the independent line. good morning. mr. olsen

is a real common sense at guest. i was a republican for years. i got thrown out of my boarding house for making signs for eisenhower during the election. bush theenchanted by elder for some reason. i can't remember what it was. will have a big effect on this election is all of this rioting. are afraid people that this country is sinking into anarchy. community. small it's very republican or conservative, i should say, and people are afraid. with all the statute destruction and burning buildings, that is townews as far as small

america is concerned, and i think that will sway voters. i think people are afraid that influenced too much by the far left. i don't think he is. i think he's a rather moderate democrat. but i think he is being influenced during the election, when we get closer to the election, he is going to be swayed more and more by the far left. carla, we will get a response. thank you very much for the call. guest: i think that is something that is very much on voters' minds. when i talk to republicans, they talk about the rioting. they talk about the violence. it's not just a small town thing. the question is, is that on minds as well, the kind of person who is not as partisan. we don't know that yet.

it's quite obvious that what biden is trying to do is unite the democratic coalition, and that means he is swinging left on a variety of issues to keep progressives behind him, even though he is far from their first voice -- choice. so far, he has avoided making missteps that will give him a high profile stances that are likely to hurt him. but if there's more rioting, if there's a recurrence of the violence as this summer heats up, then he's good to have to take a stand. where does he stand? does he stand with the far-left, which takes a more benign view of this, or does he stand with the people whose homes are being destroyed and whose businesses are being destroyed? if the violence picks up, i think biden will have to make a choice and how he chooses is going to have a large determination on whether he is able to continue his large lead. host: robert, good morning. caller: yes.

one of the provisions of what i would consider a good constitution was advocated by george mason. he said that he did not want one man having all that power. he wanted a three-person presidency. oneis case, he wanted copresident from the north, one from the middle states, and one from the south. three copresidents, one elected each two years. likelihoodreduce the of what william f buckley -- buckley used to call the prosecutorial spasm, which is what we had in 2016 -- oh, what was it? when our current president was elected.

host: got the point. thank you, robert. we will get a response. guest: what of the things we need to look at is whether or not our constitution need some -- one of the things we need to look at is whether our constitution need some updating. for a di not designed country split into two parties of roughly equal strength to continue to block the other party. that is what we have had for the last 20 or so years. it has increased partisanship. it has increased frustration. most other countries have a way of picking those deadlocks so things happen in an effective way while maintaining free partisan politics, and i think if we need to make constitutional changes to allow that to happen that will probably be for the good. -- our callersk from california, richard, good morning. good morning.

i'm 77. the gop and donald trump are in with the dictators. they are trying to -- i think -- coronavirus was created it was from germany and china and trump is using it, they are using it and they want to make donald trump a dictator. and his boss is putin from russia. he needs to be taken out and charged with treason. a lot of people have died because of him. host: thank you for the call. henry olsen, what are you hearing from them? guest: i am hearing from him what a lot of democrats believe. i do not think the president was to be a dictator. i think the president is somebody who has his strengths and has his weaknesses, but you take a look at what dictators do area dictators shut down

outlets,n press dictators but opposition people in jail, dictators restrict elections, and in fact, dictators do not allow what happened in 2018 -- which is one of the greatest opposition party landslides in a midterm in decades. there's simply no evidence that trump is either a want to be dictator or a person who is in sellith foreign leaders to out america. that's partisan hyperbole that is helping to destroy our country. finally, in some circles -- john -- james carville put forward this morning on "morning joe" that the president might not seek reelection. see any scenario where the president would not seek reelection this year? guest: i think there is a very, unlikely scenario.

the lbj scenario, president johnson was a brawler. he was a strong political fighter, but in the wake of the protests in the vietnam war and in the wake of the protests in the street and in the wake of his surprisingly strong challenge from eugene mccarthy in the new hampshire primary, his psyche buckled and he said, i'm not going to put myself in the country through it and he said he was not going to run for reelection. the president is down in the polls. the president has been the subject of four years of unbelievably harsh criticism. if,ould not surprise me over the july 4 of weekend or shortly thereafter, in consultation with his family, he decided it just wasn't worth it. i don't think it's going to happen. but then again, i think if you had said in the middle of january 1968, woodland and baines johnson not be a candidate for renomination, that

wouldbe considered -- lyndon baines johnson not be a candidate for lamination, that would be considered unlikely as well. from thery olsen ethics and public policy center. thank you. guest: thank you. host: are you optimistic or pessimistic about the direction of the country? we have our phones divided as follows -- if you are optimistic -748-8000 and if you are 748-8001.ic 202- poll, onlyo a new 31% of voters think that the country is headed in the right direction. 69% of those surveyed from a 29th to june 1 say the country

is on the wrong track. other incumbent presidents have won reelection with significant majorities saying the country was on the wrong track. a "washington post analysis showed that barack obama and bill clinton won reelection track numbersrong in the polls. the president will have a speech at mount rushmore. we will have live coverage, 7:00 for those of you on the west coast. joining us, we have a political from sioux falls. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you. host: how did this come together ? worked withovernor the interior department and the

present to get it started. concern there any fireworks will do damage to mount rushmore? .02% chance is a there could be a wildfire that starts that could damage homes and businesses and there could be an increased chance with abnormally dry conditions, which we have right now. host: what will the clouds look like? how many people are expected to attend? will they be required to wear a face mask? 7500 at the event. they will not be social distancing. they will not be required to wear a mask, but masks will be available if people want them. is this playing out in south dakota? this is a big is -- big visit from the president. guest: yes, there's a lot of concern, especially from the democrats about damage to mount rushmore.

the headline in "the the sioux post," that leaders plan to protest. guest: it will be a couple miles from mount rushmore. there was a protest in rapid city, the closest city to mount rushmore. host: you say the governor allowing the interior department to allow fireworks. what is the back story? why was it not allowed in the past? basically it killed thousands of trees, which created fuel for a wildfire with the fireworks there. that ended in about 2016. as weis there concern, saw in tulsa, where people might get coronavirus? also, a number of secret service

vices in arizona, president pence delaying his visit there? guest: there is a concern that it could cause an increase in hospitalizations in the state. coronavirus numbers have been pretty steady without a huge increase. they are concerned that the fireworks, coupled with the rally in august really impacted the coronavirus in the states. host: these service rally is what? guest: it is the motorcycle rally that happens every august. and most of the motorcyclists in the country are in south carolina. governor mentioned kristi noem, former member of congress. earlier this week, she appeared on fox news with laura ingraham. here is what she said. [video clip] noem: with this on personal

responsibility. every one of them have the opportunity to make a decision they are comfortable with. we will have a large event july 3. we told people with concerns they can stay home, but those who want to come and join us, we will be giving out free face masks if they choose to wear one. we will not be social distancing. we asked them to come and celebrate, enjoy the freedoms and liberties in this country and talk about our history and what it ought is today with an opportunity to raise our kids in the greatest country in the world. lisa kaczke, your reaction? guest: it's pretty much what she has been saying for the last two months with the coronavirus pandemic, really emphasizing freedom and personal responsibility to wear a mask, to social distance, stay home if you want to. implemented certain

restrictions and things like that, but it has been pretty much along the lines of what she has been saying for months. you did have a hot spot or a number of hotspots of coronavirus in a meatpacking plant. what is the status of that right now? in terms ofy steady increasing numbers. the one in sioux falls kind of died out a little bit. but there are still concerns with some of the other meatpacking plants in the state. , a politicalczke reporter, joining us from sioux falls. americans are watching with anguish as they look at systemic racism, but also statues and

those representing the country's worst racist sin. add it all up, and new study that 71% research said describe themselves as angry, 66% as fearful, and just days before our independence day, 17% call themselves proud. let's get your phone calls. mike in houston, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. the reason for my optimism is we live in a democratic nation and we have elections coming up in four months. we have the opportunity to vote for president and this time, all fully vote for someone who is capable of doing the job. thelieve and i believe evidence shows, that president

trump is not capable of doing -- i believe, and i believe the evidence shows, that president trump is not capable of doing the job. he's not qualified and he's not capable. of thatinside evidence from john bolton and general mattis. and nothing has demonstrated that more than the coronavirus. that from theled beginning. we all know that china can't be trusted, but the president did trust them, take them at their word, and as a matter of fact, shipped large amounts to people eeo over to china in january when we needed it over here -- over theunts of ppe china in january when we needed it over here, rather than trusting his advisers who warned us as early as january. , thank you. the president with

this tweet on coronavirus. "there is a rise in coronavirus because our testing is so massive and so good, better than any other country. this is great news, but even better news is that death, and the death rate, is down. also, younger people, who get better much easier and faster!" from 52,000 on tuesday. those new numbers just released from what we saw yesterday. what is next is mike and visiting you. that morning, mike. optimistic or pessimistic? caller: pessimistic. it is marked, but that's kind. i am not pessimistic because of the president and power. i have pessimistic because the the entire government. i see a breakdown in every branch of government. we have the supreme court that is completely politicized. they are not following the constitution.

they are not following the loss. .hey have the fbi no one finds the leakers, the liars. the justice department is not prosecuting anybody either. sit here thinking if we vote someone else and this is all going to change. if you vote a senile old man into office, is going to get worse. if we have a rule of law in this country where we can trust the police, trust the courts, trust the upper courts, -- if we don't have a rule of law this country, where we can trust the police, trust the courts, just the upper courts, don't trust the upper courts, we don't have a country. president trump does not have control of this. i am very pessimistic. i think trump is doing the best he can in the circumstances but all of the media is against him. all of the government is against him and it's only one man against the masses and now there is mild rule in the streets. it is quite an unfortunate situation.

republicans growing pessimistic about the country's growing direct them. this is the first time the number has fallen so low of those who believe the country is on the right track, since 2017 when a rally organized by white supremacists in charlottesville, virginia led to violent clashes with counterprotesters. sun city, california, good morning. caller: good morning. always good to see you, steve. hope you and your family are well. i'm optimistic. sad that it had to happen with the death of a young man back in minnesota, but i see the people commenting, opening -- coming together, opening their eyes and sing something has to change. it did not start yesterday. it's not going to change tomorrow.

i am just real optimistic about it being good for the country. me the blackls pollyanna, but i accept it. i am just looking at this as a real good springboard. like i said, it's not going to happen tomorrow. it's not going to happen next year, but i'm really looking forward to the goodness of our country. host: have a happy july 4 weekend. we appreciate it. caller: steve, thank you. host: this is from yahoo! news. americans no longer see america on aagan's shining city hill. no matter how polarized he might be politically, americans seem to agree on something. that everything about america is getting worse. back in 1989, in his farewell address, president reagan famously described america as "a shining city on a hill," a

beacon of hope for the rest of the world. foundyahoo! news survey that a majority of americans, 52%, believe that reagan' us remark was accurate at the time, and yet today a staggering 62% of americans say the u.s. is no longer that shining city on the hill. only 17% say it still is. amber next from dekalb, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. pessimisticfeeling about everything. i am illinois. i see the covid cases spiking. not taking science as fact. it is politicized now. these are basic things. just wash your hands, where a lives.ave others'liv

why is everyone focused on personal freedom and not wearing a mask when it is about protecting the sanctity of life for others? people don't care about others. just reallyout -- i need people to wear a mask and wash their hands. the call.k you for we are live later today with the president as he travels to south in south give remarks dakota at mount rushmore. it will get underway at 10 p.m. eastern time. mall, there will more at 6 p.m. eastern time. matt is joining us from asheville, north carolina. good morning. caller: thank you. i would normally being called on the pessimistic line, but i'm calling on the optimistic line

thing madese one things a little bit brighter and that is the arrest of duane ghwell -- chilean maxwell -- islaine maxwell. host: thank you, the long time confidant and friend of jeffrey epstein, who committed suicide last year. good morning. caller: good morning. i think you need to have another option -- not optimistic, not pessimistic, just embarrassed. thank you very much. host: thank you. let's go to robber in oklahoma. good morning. for takingh, thanks my call. i appreciate it. my reason for optimism is we are a constitutional republic. .e are not a democracy we have limits on government. the first 10 amendments to the constitution are limits on

government. they are not limit some people. they are limits on government. as long as we support that and as long as the supreme court continues to decide on constitutional things, follow the rules -- without the constitution, we have no rule of law. we have no checks and balances. without the constitution, we have nothing. the constitution is america. if you don't believe that, move. thank you for the call. anthony crater on her twitter page -- always optimistic. do not care who the president is. i will not look at things any other way. i own that to my parents. and this text message from renée in marietta, georgia. can only be pessimistic about a portion of the population that does not care about infecting others. wear a mask. are you pessimistic? caller: i pessimistic if these

liberals take over the country is to destroygoal the western world and destroy the united states. i think trump, overall, his message is that she is trying to save the western world. that is my opinion. if you have a problem with tohington and jefferson -- me, they were great men, even with their fault. after you saw what happened with these riots in everything and all of these liberal mayors and governors did nothing -- people were calling on the phone for the police and they wouldn't show up, i don't know how you can vote democrat with their law and order ideas. destroy the united states. they want to destroy our founding. trump, you know, how horrible he is -- you know why?

for eight years, obama made me sick. i could barely listen to that man speak. he was anti-american. i could list all the things that man did that was anti-american. you talk about trump being at against our allies. how about obama? he hated israel. he wanted them to go back to the 1967 borders per the first time ever we voted against them at the security council. he would not cross the red line. he would not do anything about ukraine. he never said a word. china hacked into my retirement system at the post office. he never said a word to them. were stealing intellectual property. they never did nothing. a obama never did nothing. biden didn't do nothing. trump is trying to save the western world. host: thank you. howard in salisbury, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning and happy fourth to america.

well, that i had a lot to say about barack obama. he's not even running. that guy had a lot to say about barack obama. he's not even running. the country is ready now to see whatctually america is all about. united we stand. divided we fall. this president wants to divide. why -- thed me majority of them are life. why are they pro-life and would not wear a mask? but they would tell a woman how to treat their body, but when a person says you must wear a mask, they say no. guaido they say anything about -- why don't they say anything about that? they want to save life but they don't care about life. you. thank a full schedule of programming for this weekend. you can check this out on book ooktv.org, and the full

complement of american history programming on c-span3. bonnie is next in marion, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: good. coughed for a minute. [laughter] caller: go ahead, please. -- host: go ahead, please. goner: this country has downhill since kennedy. host: we are getting some feedback. good morning. morning, pedro. just two hours, drink and coffee and the greatest country in the world. i wish people would wake up because we have finally stemmed .he tide of a dying country we are trying to take some breaths to lift our heads up out

of the sand. we should congratulate ourselves. i lived in mexico for three years. it's a lawless country. never lived in canada, but the difference in america is law and order. i used to rail against it. i was a hippie in the 1960's, but now i value it more than ever because it allows us to live together. anything more than to do people laws.island requires country,n't like this you have options. mexico, canada. thank you, pedro. have a beautiful july 4. thanks.y, i will mention it to pedro. i appreciate you phoning in. overall a poll found that

american people have a historically pessimistic mood setting it to be a marked by family cookouts and fireworks displays, and canceled across the country admitted the surging coronavirus pandemic that has killed more than 28,000 americans and infected more than 50,000. the spiraling pandemic may be responsible for the gloomy 65% of americans saying that covid-19 is getting worse versus 16% who say it's getting better. good morning. caller: hi. i have a few things to say. one thing about my pessimistic thing is -- you know, i would donate to black lives matter and it takes you to the page that shows you where your money goes. guess what? the money that goes to black lives matter goes to the democratic party. i did not know that.

i think is pretty horrible. for all the black people being killed in chicago that don't even get recognized on the news recognize about mr. floyd. they do not talk about the black people getting killed in these blue states where there's no law and order. with regard to the coronavirus, look, i'm an at risk person. i did the things i am supposed to do. if everyone else has done what they are supposed to do, they will be just fine. with regard to type -- tearing down statues and things like that. i will tell you one thing that happens. trust me, i did a lot of studying of history in college. they actually had a class called ethics in history. the thing is is pretty much a we tearcal fact that if down all the statues and you get is whyanything -- which

our children do not learn history in any kind of compassionate or recognizable or understandable way, it will repeat itself. that's just a fact. from the new york times, a .ook at a couple of hotspots you can see a number of dark spots in central and northern florida, texas, louisiana, central and northern california. melissa is next from kokomo, indiana. what's your overall mood on this july 3? caller: very depressing because over the weekend, our president should not be at mount rushmore. he should be working on the problems of our country. today, the social discourse, the covid-19, keeping our economy , he says one things during the day and at night he is changing his mind, so we need

a federal plan. he's not doing his job. , to you and all the callers who have weighed in with comments, calls, tweets, text messages, thank you. this is the start of the holiday weekend. be safe as you travel through the july 3 weekend and we will be back again tomorrow morning with another edition of "the washington journal." thank for being with us. have a great and wonderful july 4 weekend. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] >> this is a crisis. people are losing their lives. >> with police reform taking

center stage, watch our live, unfiltered coverage of the latest developments plus the government's response to the coronavirus pandemic. and nowre going down, we sort of stayed flat and now we are going. >> briefings from the white house on foreign affairs, from congress on health fair, inside from former administration officials. >> i do feel like there is a line one should not cross where governmental power is used essentially exclusively for personal benefit. >> we will stand proud and we will stand tall. >> and the latest from the campaign 2020 trail. join in the conversation every day on our live call-in program "washington journal." and if you missed any of our live coverage, watch any time on demand at c-span.org or listen on the go with the free c-span radio app. this fourth of july weekend,

president trump is at mount rushmore tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern. and in washington saturday at 6:45 eastern for what is billed as a salute to america's celebration. online at on c-span, c-span.org or listen live wherever you are on the free c-span radio app. [video clip] >> there it is, the 60 foot head of george washington. lincoln and theodore roosevelt to be unveiled. >> when i look at the presidents, the first thing i think about is some individual achievements from each of those people. but really, what they do for me, and what this whole memorial does for me, is it reminds me about what they stood for.

democracy,r freedom, republics. i get to think about that every day. i get to share that with people every day and meet people from all over the world who may not know who those presidents are, but they understand what freedom means. idea was from a state historian. he had conceived of carving statues in the round. granite spires in custard state park. he was going to have people like lewis and clark, sacagawea, fremont. when he hired his artist, his artist said you are not thinking big enough. selecting the four people that are up there was the artist. when you look at them, you can kinda figure out why they were selected. george washington, our first

president, the person who gave up the power. he could have stayed in power, he was very popular. thomas jefferson. a lot of people will say that must be because of the declaration of independence, but that is not why the artist chose him. he chose him because of the louisiana purchase, doubling the size of the country. lincoln. you can probably figure that out, keeping the country together during the civil war, taking care of the nation. the challenging one, theodore roosevelt. selected by the artist, but he wasn't the most popular guy at the time. the artist selected theodore roosevelt because of the panama canal. he took the nation from being bound by the ocean and expanded and went international. he was also the president who was standing for the common man. both of those things resonated with the artist. >> two of the four were slaveowners. does that engender discussion as

well amongst -- and you all talk about that and your interpretations of these presidents, washington and jefferson. >> some of the presidents were slaveowners. there is discussion that pops up around the property about that. asis not as much discussion you might expect because you think that is a major controversy. what it does, it is certainly something we step forward and we are talking about. all of our interpretive programs here, anytime you hear a part ranger out here talking about something presenting a program, they did their own research, they put their own presentation together. we don't focus on one thing in particular, it is the passion of the interpreter. we have had some where their focus was slavery and what that meant to this country, not just presidents who were slaveowners, but presidents who wrestled with slavery. >> can you describe where we are located, where mount rushmore is and put it in context of the black hills? >> mount rushmore is in the

state of south dakota. south dakota has the black hills. if you are on the western side of the state. if you are looking at rapid city, we are about 2000 feet higher than rapid. some people have referred to this as the turtle in the prairie. you can see the black hills from a long distance. they were referencing they could see it in a distant. it looked black because of the ponderosa pines. you can see it as a long way across the state of south dakota. years, there has been discussion from native americans and others about the location of the black hills, sacred to the native americans. right here, you have something representative to the u.s. government and policy of native americans has not always

-- they have not looked out at the same way. what do you talk about when you tell people about that issue and mount rushmore? >> there was controversy from the start. carving into the black hills. the controversy came from tribal people as well as people that today, we would call people who were ecologists. they were looking out a place that they would come in and ceremonies,ve honor spend some time. period, we are talking 1925, that wasn't looked at the same way we look at that today. today, we do still have tribal people who are concerned about the black hills being carved, people living in the back hills. we try to honor that, some of it through our interpretive programming, but we also have a place that we set up in the park that is called the lakota heritage village.

every summer, we hire cultural interpreters. these are people who are lakota. they come in and talk about the lakota story. we are trying to share the importance of the black hills for all of these people as well as what that sculpture means. it is a balance. the sculptor had started in georgia. he started in stone mountain, georgia. there was a conflict there. he left and came up here to work for the state of south dakota. first challenge was finding a place to carve, finding something appropriate. he and his son lincoln travel through the black hills looking for the site until they found this big granite outcropping. your next challenge is, how do you turn that into a sculpture? as an artist, the first thing he had to do was make small sizes and make them bigger and bigger until he gets to a 1/12 model.

we, today, have the original model. every inch on that model is one foot up on the sculpture. as you are sculpting, that might be nice and easy in clay or plaster, but when you are looking at the mountain, you are talking granite, very fine-grained, tough stuff. 90% of that sculpture is carved with dynamite. think of dynamite as an artist brush, but it certainly was in this case. [explosions] in 1927 when they start the blasting, that is the very beginning. there were people coming up here visiting the sculpture watching that whole carving process the entire time. there wasn't a formal opening day, they have multiple dedications for each president. the artist was big on dedications and celebrations because he knew that is how he would get everyone's attention.

and ultimately, that is how more funding would come in. he was constantly going to washington, d.c., approaching congress on the president trying to get more money, always trying to get more money. there were times his workers weren't getting paid. he was putting all of his personal money into it. he was making a trip to washington, d.c. in march 1941. to ask for more money. he stops in chicago along the way. he has an operation and dies as a result of that operation. his son, lincoln, takes over the work. lincoln had started here when he was about 12 years old. he was brought up with this. he knew all the different jobs. blasting, drilling, pointing. he is an artist himself. heing over the sculpture, must have been sad and wonderful. lincoln declared that sculpture was completed october 31, 1941.

people talk all the time and ask all the time about adding someone up on the sculpture. many presidents have been mentioned, many other people have been mentioned. it won't happen. the sculpture is complete. >> the great stone faces are four presidents stand in silence. machinery is dismantled. lincoln puts away models. theodore roosevelt and abraham lincoln were the last of the four faces. the hand carving tools are laid away, tools of an unfinished masterpiece. even though unfinished, the mount rushmore memorial stands as a shrine of democracy and the four great americans who helped carve this injury nation. nation.ing

>> this fourth of july weekend, president trump is at mount rushmore tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern and in washington saturday at 6:45 eastern for what is billed as a salute to america's celebration. watch live on c-span, online at c-span.org, or listen live wherever you are on the free c-span radio app. >> sunday night on "q&a" runoff on the u.s. response to the covid-19 pandemic and the medical science being used to combat it. >> i have not seen a level of collaborative spirit within the scientific community of this ilk or stature in my life. that is very encouraging news. things have moved as fast as they can possibly move.

we will have, hopefully by the end of this month, two to three, to maybe four potential drugs including antibodies that will attack the virus. we are still in advanced case studies, so i cannot comment on what will work or not or what settings they work on. and we will also have about four modalities to new treat the inflammatory phase of the virus. >> watches sunday night at interclick -- at 8:00 eastern. tv" on c-span2 has talked nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up this july 4 weekend, saturday at 11:00 p.m. eastern, senatorpublican joni ernst. in her memoir, "daughter of the heartland." noon, a life to our

conversation with retired admiral james to rita's, author of several books including "command at sea, the accidental admiral," destroyer captain and his most recent book "sailing true north." 8:30in the conversation at p.m. eastern. arizona republican senator martha mcsally reflects on her military career as the first female fighter pilot to fly in combat. at 9:00 p.m. eastern, on "afterwards," pulitzer prize winner mary jordan on the life and influence of first lady melania trump. she is interviewed by usa today washington bureau chief susan page. watch "book tv" on c-span2 this weekend. a lot to get to, thank you for