from liberalism," "flying high," and "the reagan i knew." and then we feature malcolm gladwell. binge watch book tv all summer on c-span2. ♪ host: good morning. this is "washington journal" for july 5. want to hear from you about efforts across the united states to move statues and monuments. increased calls for removal started after the death of george floyd and centered on confederate figures, but others have called to expand that list, the founding fathers and other figures of american history. let us know if you support the efforts to remove statues and monuments. if you support it, (202) 748-8000.

if you are not supporting it, (202) 748-8001. if you are unsure, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003, message us on twitter at @cspanwj, and on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. a harris it was from poll that was released on the 23rd of june. 58said that at the time, percent of respondents said the statues should remain, while 42% say they should be removed. a number of confederate monuments were torn down in cities across the united states recently. if you go to the u.s. news website this morning, an activity that took place yesterday in georgia -- this is reuters reporting -- a

predominantly black group of heavily armed protesters stormed through a park in atlanta, calling for the removal of the confederate rock carving that the site that civil rights activist consider a monument to racism. many were dressed in paramilitary style clothing and wearing face scarves, quietly parading down the sidewalk at the park. supremacists have historically used stone mountain as a rallying spot of their own. that's in stoma, georgia. and baltimore, maryland as of stationy, the new ss wsls tore down a statue of christopher columbus and threw it into the city's inner

harbor on saturday night. they say the italian explorer responsible for genocide and exportation of people in the native americas. thoughts on this -- call us on one of the lines. if you support this effort to remove monuments and statues, call us at (202) 748-8000. maybe you oppose that. call (202) 748-8001. and if you are not sure about the effort, (202) 748-8002 is the number to call. you can text us as long as you send along your name, city, and state at (202) 748-8003. tweet us at @cspanwj and post on our facebook page at facebook.com/cspan. in july 4 ceremonies the president of the united states last night, during his presentation, talked about this effort, looking at statues and monuments. here is a little bit of what he had to say from yesterday. [video clip] >> our past is not a burden to

be cast away. it is not a miraculous foundation that will lift us to the next great summit of human endeavor. this incredible story of american progress is the story of each generation picking up where the last finished, linked by time, by fate, and the eternal bonds of our national affection. those who would sever those off fromld cut us the wisdom, the courage, the love and devotion that gave us andything we are today, everything we strive for tomorrow. we cannot let that happen. we will not throw away our heroes. we will honor them and we will prove worthy of their sacrifice.

that full event available on our website at c-span.org. tammy on facebook, saying they all need to be removed. named afters places confederates needing to be renamed. it was a treasonous war started because a portion of the u.s. did not want to give up their slaves. why do we need reminders of that? burningdifferent than books, next thing they are going to be burning movies. if they wanted to erase everything in history why do they still teach history in school? they might as well stop teaching it. the sad thing is they can remove all the statues but it will not change the past. our next color, hello. caller: thank you taking my call, pedro. for all the people saying the confederates are a bunch of saids, thomas jefferson that the tree of liberty needs

,o be watered with the blood of you know, revolution occasionally. i would recommend to those folks who are saying that the confederates are a bunch of losers, consider that. that's one thing. with couldn't agree more black lives matter, that's true. it's very true. hank johnson spoke about that very, very eloquently. he is a representative in my area. host: as far as the opposing specifically why, do you think? my point is there are a lot more important issues to be addressed rather than monuments. these people, they stood for something. that is what the monuments are there to help us remember, that

they shed their blood for this country. butas in a losing cause, nevertheless they did their duty. that is what these monuments represent. there are a lot more important things that we should be addressing rather than these monuments. host: ok. that is jim in tucker, georgia. from upper mom perrault, oro,land -- upper marlb maryland, in support of this cause. hello . caller: people want to say this is about eliminating history. it is not about eliminating history. teach us in class. symbol of what our nation values, and do we want to say we value killers and traitors and hypocrites to this nation? we want to value men and women of america who stood for what

the constitution stands for, if for all people. teach it in class. we are not eliminating history by eliminating statues. what we are doing is eliminating , the values that are contrary to our constitution, the values that we contrary believe in as americans. eliminate them. teach it in class. ed in georgia, unopposed ser ofthese -- an oppo these efforts. caller: the problem with removing the statues, i always thought of them as works of art. some of them are not made that great because the artists that did it were not as good as some of the other artists, but some

of the statues, like the one of andrew jackson, is probably worth 35 million to $40 million. i don't think that a bunch of people who didn't even graduate from high school should have a right to tear down a statue. it in a to do it, do legal way. it has to be a consensus. you can't just tear down a statue. host: are you far from stone mountain, georgia, etched into the rock, that image that is etched into the rock there? ,aller: i think the image there if it would be removed in a way that wouldn't deface the mountain, but make it look like, you know, a big scar on the mountain -- it has to be done in it tothat wouldn't cause look really bad. that park is very famous. people go there all the time in the summertime, and i am sure they do not want to look at a

scar. alan in north carolina, who opposes these efforts in rocking ham. hello. , every situation the people want to tear the statues down and everything, it ought to be voted on by the people that live in that state or the area. they should leave it alone. i am glad president trump, our great president, has passed this new executive order that he is going to take care of anybody who's going to take care of trying to tear down these things. richmond, the mayor there decided to move some of those statues, including stonewall jackson, recently. do you agree if the mayor decided for that area, that is an ok process. caller: no. he does not have the authority to do that. the people of virginia needs to vote on that. he does not have any authority to do that. he needs to keep out of our business. that in richmond,

virginia, when it came to the removal of that that's you. mauryr statue of general that got called for removal as well. if can find video of this you go online, but we want to get your routes as well. the color had spoke to the executive order signed by the president. if you go to the white house website, it cites the executive ther -- to redo some of language -- read you some of the language connected to it, big prosecuted to the fullest extent permitted under federal law, and any entity that destroys, vandalize his, or desecrates a monument or statue within the united states or otherwise analyzes government property will be prosecuted to the full's extent permitted under federal law, and as appropriate, any state person or entity that

participates in efforts to incite violence or other illegal activity in connection with the riots and acts of vandalism described in the order, it also goes a little further, in saying it is policy of the united states to prosecute to the fullest extent any person or defaces, ordamages, destroys religious property, including by attacking, removing, or defacing pictures of jesus or other religious figures or religious artwork. much more to the executive order signed by the president. if you go to the white house website, you can read it for yourself. marylandannapolis, says she is unsure. thanks for calling. caller: not that i am unsure, it is just a very difficult trail to trod. believe that the statues such as robert e. lee, stonewall jackson, people who bet rayed our country, they need to go.

legally, hopefully, they need to go. onre is a statue in maryland the eastern shore that says "to our talbot county boys." it has been there for a while. iery time i go to eastham see that statue, and it upsets me. i am not african-american, but i would love to see it gone. when i listen to what trump has been harping for the last 48 hours, he scares me. he's dangerous, he is dumb, we have to put him away. host: back to the topic at hand, the statue you saw, why does it bother you so much? caller: it bothers me because those are the people that betrayed our country. host: so that is the instinct that hits when you see that statue? caller: it does. i have a family where my

aeat-grandfather was state senator who owned over 50 slaves. it is embarrassing, but it is our history. thistatues like the towel county boys and stonewall jackson go back to the jim crow let me just-- finish this -- it is important to remember that 30 years after reconstruction, back when all the states were the white power back in place in the 1890's, 1900s, that is when these statues went in. black people,nd african-americans, that they were less than those who were white. with that extent to jefferson, washington, other founding fathers as well? caller: that was a different

era. they didn't betray the country. host: caroline, our caller. if you go to the atlantic website, they will show you pictures of monuments that have been taken down since the death of george floyd. it cites the removal of stonewall jackson, that picture from richmond, virginia. another one from richmond, the stonewall jackson site being fort, kentucky.k it also goes to show traffic cones and ropes remaining on the statue the morning after protesters attempted to topple it in richmond. , by the way,s too of some of those statues that have come down. in's go and hear from pam maryland, watford city, a supporter of these efforts. caller: good morning.

is there a reason why we don't have a statue of adolf hitler? imagine we had such a statue in germany. wouldn't you be alarmed? they would be really, really mad about that. if we are considering all-black african-americans as americans, i think we owe them, we owe them the respect of not a constant reminder of pay, those are the people who did this, did something wrong to you guys. any statues that offended the americas should be removed. host: dan in cleveland, ohio, who opposes these efforts. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: well, thank you for

asking. caller: [inaudible] related well on it in school and the whole bit. been around the country and seeing a lot of these statues myself, personally, and i'm just appalled. how long have these statues been up? do you know? host: not roughly, no. caller: it's been a long time. these things have stood and no one has had a problem with it, ok? have people gotten this thin-skinned that is stupid statue has to cause this much disruption in this country? these things are visual aids of our past history. that is how i have always looked at it, ok? you were able to go

and see, get a picture of what this person did, you read the you either agreed with it, if you didn't, disagree , and these statues belong to the public. think the statues provide enough context of what the historical figure did, but some of the issues that other callers have raised? if that is the case, do you think more context would be necessary? caller: maybe. you know, that is a possibility. i would never disagree with that. a plaque can only be so big i guess too,, you can't put all the history down on it. i think the president trump is trying to save some of these things. it's our history. what really drives me nuts about thatis the lack of people know the history, ok?

they are getting told something that [inaudible] but they don't realize that the south was all democrats. these people are backing the democrats. some of these people in congress have ancestors that owned slaves and stuff. host: ok. let's hear from john, madison, wisconsin, a supporter of these efforts. hello. caller: [inaudible] heream lincoln is vilified [inaudible]st, everybody forgets medical marijuana. host: we won't go down that road. the removal of statues is what we are talking about. you say you support the effort. why is that? caller: [inaudible]

host: why do you support the removal of statues and monuments? i think he hung up. let's go to stuart, south carolina, oppose, line for those who oppose this. caller: how are you doing today? host: well, thank you. go ahead. caller: what happened to george floyd [inaudible] what happens to the statue is just history and time. it is an excuse for vandalism in the country, which is laws against the violation of civil rights of a police officer to the general public. it is called title 18 to 42. look up the law. look up the law, usc 242 1983.

the history of racism. that is the law. host: what justifies leaving the statues up, sides from the law in your mind? [inaudible] a statementere as not to do it again. tearing it down, you are reliving life all over again. host: do you think a statues in themselves teach us that lesson, though? would listen.ple if people actually signed petitions and go through the court and do it the right way, how the court system works, what with the government always working slowly anyway, that is how things are done. if you want to do it the right way. host: ok. we have set a line for those who may be are unsure on this topic. it is .aller-- it is (202) 748-8002

this is from david in winnsboro. go ahead. caller: i called on the unsure line, because i feel like the statues are necessary in a certain warm, but the people that are on these statues, i bet , build meot say a statue. these were all built after these folks were dead. they have a jefferson davis memorial park in western kentucky. we need to salute these brave people who did fight in the civil war on both sides. they both have hard feelings about what they were doing -- 2 million people died for it. designated that are by the state, not the federal government -- let's get the federal government out of this. these are beautiful works of art, you know? put them up there in the state park, way out in the country. if you went to jefferson davis park, you would have a hard time

finding it. it is kind of like washington monument spire out there. i bet martin luther king did not say, i want this statue of me on washington, d.c. property. it is a great work of art, but harrington them down and just destroying that work of art is not good. like i say, the people that are on these statues, they probably did not know there was going to be a statue built of them. let's not harm their name, even though what they may have done was treasonous or what you feel about them. it is an emotional thing. that's david in georgia. the president signed another executive order in light of this topic. politico picks up the story, and establishment of a park for statues of american heroes, as he described it, saying that the

executive order comes amid the national debate over the removal of confederate monuments following the civil unrest sparked by the death of george floyd. the executive order, these statues are not ours alone. they are not to be discarded by passiones of political . executive order reads an opinion he drove home at the south dakota rally, which you ee on c-span.com. the order proposes the statues of 28 americans, among them john adams, frederick douglass, ronald reagan,. token -- harriet tubman and george washington. that is some of the executive

order there. if you go to capitol hill back in june, speaker of the house nancy pelosi ordering some of those portraits, four portraits to be taken down from the capitol grounds because of their connections to confederate past. that video, you can still find and see on c-span, by the way. as you look at that and we continue our conversation about the removal of monuments, statues and the like, portraits included, as seen in the video, we go to gym, who joins us from time being, texas on -- joins us from texas on our unsure line. caller: hello, am i on? host: you are. caller: i am calling from texas, as you just said, and these people, some of them, distant cousins and that kind of stuff, is my relatives. i don't look at them as traitors. i really got hurt when a woman called them traitors. , andbelieved in a cause

like this black lives matter -- that is a cause. i don't put it down. which relative are you closely connected to that is being questioned? caller: are you still there? host: which relative is closely connected to you that is in question? caller: the one that i traced back to was actually robert e. lee. you get into the cousin than the uncles and aunts and all kind of stuff, but that is my bloodline. don't look at him as a trader, i look at him as actually a great leader. vilified for be the fact that maybe he owned slaves. actually, everybody in the south owned slaves one way or another, and it is like saying half of the country doesn't exist. that is just stupid. called on our line

t those who are unsure. what are you unsure about? caller: why can you keep them in put them in a big museum atlanta or something, where people could go see them if you wanted to and not destroy history? holocaust saying the didn't exist. i actually had some stupid person try to tell me that the holocaust didn't exist. i was in germany when i served in the military. ok.: yolanda from virginia, a supporter of these efforts. you are up next. caller: good morning. i'm listening to the calls and taking note of what everybody is terriblend i feel having a trophy for the atrocities committed and i get to see it whenever i want, i get to talk other people who are hurt.

these are not feelings, these are facts. this is what happens to people. you don't get rewarded for bad behavior, and you do not get to profit from it either. you cannot be a serial killer, make a movie, and get millions of dollars. you cannot commit these atrocities and have them in a museum. they need to be destroyed. host: why not put them in a museum with context? caller: no. you do not get to benefit off of somebody else's crime or atrocity. it is the craziest thing. i don't understand it. most of the colors i'm hearing sound like they should be on the back of a shed with hay in their mouth. i don't understand it. let's go to mike in ancinnati, ohio, opposer of these efforts. caller: [inaudible]

that's part of history. i just don't believe that this one man who died, bless his soul, that it was wrong. then again, you can't take away everything else because of just one person. i feel that history is very important for the world to see. host: what do you feel the statues in themselves teach the whole context of history, including the part of that? caller: i think it just, you know, it's there. if you don't like something, you are usually told not to look at it. or don't be around it. that is not so hard to do. host: ok. just because think you know, look

at the 1960's too. theyy time in the world should have been taken down, it would have been then. why didn't they do it? host: that was our first half-hour. we will spend three hours on this topic. we will have a guest in the middle hour. if you want to tell is where you are when it comes to the removal of statues and monuments, you can do so at (202) 748-8000 if you support these efforts. if you oppose them, (202) 748-8001. a line foro included those who are unsure -- several calls on that one this morning. it is (202) 748-8002. you heard from the president his thinking on these topics, it was last week that former vice president, and other presumptive nominee in this year's election, will talk about the national debate over monuments, talk about the role of, what role should be done when it comes to taking down some of these monuments. here is what he had to say.

[video clip] distinctiona between, as the former mayor of new orleans said, a difference reminders and remembrances of history, and recovering from history. the idea of comparing whether or not george washington owned slaves or thomas jefferson owned on somebody who was in rebellion, committing to use in -- committing treason, trying to run down the union to keep slavery, i think there is a distinction. i think the idea of bringing down all those confederate monuments to confederate soldiers and generals, etc., who fully supported secession and ing, the maintenance of slavery and going to war to do it, those statues do not belong in public places.

they belong and museums. in regards to those statues and monuments like the jefferson there is anthink obligation that the government protects those monuments, because they are different -- that is a remembrance. revering dealing with somebody who had that view. .hey had much broader views they may have things in their past that are now and then distasteful, but that is a judgment. taking down, toppling christopher columbus statues and george washington statues, etc., i think that is something the government, has an opportunity and responsibility to protect from happening. feed, manyr twitter of the confederates are calling for the continued existence of

confederate statue areas, raised in opposition to the civil rights of americans of african descent. gary from twitter as well as says you cannot remove history. destroying history does not change history, it only gives haters a chance to change history for their own benefit. the twitter feed is at @cspanwj, and you can also post to our facebook page, facebook.com/cspan, if you want. -- we will hear from lori, go ahead. caller: i support the monuments being taken down. i do not know if they ever have permission to put them up, but i find a lot of times even the bases,f all the military the names were put there for a reason. those statues were put up -- a hierarchy exists, and they have not been torn down till this time because we finally stood together with all the people in marching against this.

we watched a man get murdered. it took that, but we are all with blackgether lives matter. and as we stand together for them, we are standing together, all of us. there is a hierarchy bear the thought the statues were ok. the history will be taught in schools. it has nothing to do in history. i know someone has to pay to maintain them. what tax money gets paid to maintain them? host: since you were in pennsylvania, would you move statuary is in gettysburg? caller: i would have to think about it and go there. it is not offending me, so i don't know. these people can

take them down, because they have been fighting a system of oppression for decades, for hundreds of years, and we are finally helping them get a step to be takinged them seriously. host: marina is next, who is unsure. caller: good morning. i agree with the vice president, that we should take down all the confederate statues, particularly here in richmond, which was the seat of the confederacy. those statues on monument avenue during the jim crow era as an all-white neighborhood . i think that removal of statues, however, is not addressing the problem of systematic racism. when the constitution was written by george washington and thomas jefferson, black people had been in this country for 150

years. excludedeliberately from the promise of that constitution. what we need to do is to fight to make the promise of america and what theyone, president is doing, instead of using this as a teachable moment, he is using this as a wedge issue to make people think that their history is being erased. that is not the point. againstates were rebels -- they completely opposed that all men should be created equal. those statues -- i like the idea of putting them at gettysburg. that would be context. that would be context. statues ofrasing the washington, grant, lincoln --

they all owned slaves. they all owned slaves. that is part of history because they did not consider that promise to extend to black people. this is a moment where we need to say that this promise needs to extend to everyone. it is a wonderful promise. host: when it comes to the removal, is there a slippery are seeingwhat we now, extending it to jefferson, washington and others. are you concerned about that? that is where there is a need for education, and we have to realize that yes, but that is what this country is founded on. you cannot separate the institution of slavery from the history of the constitution -- of this country. it is woven into the fabric. you cannot pull the threat out -- the threat of slavery -- the thread out of slavery. that is what this country was

founded on. it would not have become the economic engine it became without slavery. it is time that america recognize that, came to grips with that, and started talking about reparations. host: marina and virginia, giving us a call on her unsure line. maybe you are there too, you can call us at (202) 748-8002 if you want to express that. there is a columnist in a newspaper out of pennsylvania, this recent column looking at gettysburg. here is what he has to say about that, the 40 or so monuments to the confederacy at gettysburg should stay. they are integral to the telling of the story of what happened there in july 1863. the losers side of that battle needs to be told too. i hope visitors will consider that the markers hold the confederates accountable for risking their lives to defending

such a despicable proposition as slavery. capital of the confederacy wants to dismantle their be it.nt avenue, so from hot springs, arkansas on our opposed line. good morning. caller: i am opposed to it, because when i was a child, you are losing their taurus. people can't come here to see history. the united of states. my parents took me to philadelphia. they took me around to see -- it educated me. talk to people on the street, they don't know what the civil war was about. they don't know that it was the industrial revolution that made america great. and our country with our

resources that made america americand our people in that made america great. it wasn't the slaves, i can tell you that. we have done everything we can to pull these people up for years, and you know -- when it comes to the statues themselves, what histories do they teach in your opinion? caller: it is beautiful art. you don't have to go see them. no one makes you go stand in front of them, but i thought they were beautiful works of art that taught me this is america, how america is great with our founders, who found a country that was free from tyranny and oppression over in europe. country has this. canada had their civil war. france had their civil war because they were under did hader ships, and the cop -- under dictatorships and the

communists want us to take these down. everyone i hear talking like that because they don't know -- you can ask them questions about history, they don't know it in america. europeans know our history better than half of americans do. host: so what did the statues teach you about history? give us an example. caller: for one thing, we know -- columbus founded america. he did not enslave anyone then. he took them back and showed them to the spanish people, who they were that lived here. they were proud to go there. they did not put them in chains. thanks for the example. people can comment on that if they wish. mike in ohio, in akron. unsure. hello. caller: hello. i believe this should be done on a case-by-case basis. battlefields near a

like gettysburg, that is fine. the rest should be taken down, not torn down. it should be done with a certain amount of decorum and they should be put in museums. so many of these statues were built back at the turn-of-the-century, they didn't tell the whole story. have a statue of harriet tubman rather than are robert e lee, george washington carver, the african-americans -- ofre the the day. how can these statues tell a story when they don't tell the whole story? you mentioned some of those figures, the president wants to see some type of american park built with those figures in it. do you think that is the right approach, or is there a better approach? caller: that would work.

yes, i would go along with that. some of thee with people he says, like reagan. i am no big fan of reagan. but if i become famous and well-known before i die, i begged them, please do not make a statue of may. if you are going to do so, please keep it inside. statues are magnets for bird droppings. please keep my statue inside. before we go, because you talked about taking down statues and putting them in museums, when you see them being torn down, what goes through your mind. caller: that does make me sick. i do not like to see them torn down. it should be done with to gorham. all it does israel up the other side and shows a lack of -- i rile up the- -- is other side and shows a lack of -- i don't know -- doesn't

respect those who put it up. do it with class and make sure you have them in a museum, indoors someplace. host: when you tell your family about this statue idea of yours, how do they respond? caller: what was that? familyhen you tell your about this a statue idea of yourself, how do they respond? caller: they laugh and chuckle, they say don't worry. did noto say, columbus benefit from the slave trade, but made four trips back and forth between spain and the new world. he'd mistreated the native americans. host: i will stop you there, only because we have talked a little bit, but i appreciate the call. columbus, you saw those pictures

and baltimore, in the little it is known,s being toned down and thrown into the river there -- torn down and thrown into the river there. our opposedk on line, we will hear from carol. hello. caller: hello. my ancestors happened to come over on the mayflower. i have two of them. i have one ancestor that signed the declaration of independence. we are northerners. i am so tired of what is going scream from the rafters as far as police abuse of blacks. lexington,d in kentucky. in new york, my son had a gun pointed at his head and cuffed. host: i will point you back to the topic at hand about monuments and statues.

where is your head on that? i would not tell you where my ancestors have a statue. we are letting a bunch of thugs control our country. everyone of these people tearing down statues, burning buildings and all the rest should be locked up in jail cells. you are saying the statue should remain as they are? caller: i think these people should be controlled. host: but the statues, you think they should remain as they are? if they want to take a statue down, they should do it locally. this is nothing but just thugs that are tearing down things in our country. tofamily worked like dogs come over on the mayflower. the second signers of the declaration of independence. i have had it. i have had it. we are northerners. host: you have made that point. we will stop you there. ul in cleveland, ohio on our

support line. caller: hello, how are you? host: i'm good, go ahead. caller: i think everyone criticizing the aspect of not taking down these monuments, they need to be taken down due to the fact that the people that have toiled and made this country what it is -- we have a monument of soldiers and sailors in cleveland, ohio, downtown cleveland, and i understand celebrating victory of a battle, but they pick one slave, holding onto the leg of a slave master or general, and the general or person, the slave asterisk pointing like go, you are free. go. he is holding onto the legs of the slave master -- now fast forward to the future. georgeing as far as

floyd, the police officer sitting on his neck, you don't understand the history of how this oppression came about and clearing it up. you have the solidarity where you are educating and making -- you are not educating and making individuals not know the history , you are going to make a fool under a dictatorship of people doing this continuously for another 100 years. host: if the removal of statues is what you are calling for, what changes? are callinghat you for, what changes in the future? isler: what trump is doing immortalizing this slavery and oppression and doing people under the color of law, you killing a person -- it is said

if you kill one of mankind, it is like you kill the whole of humanity. taking it down -- it don't need to be these monuments, they do not need to be warehoused or in a museum, they need to be smelted down and there needs to be a memorial that everybody -- of everybody that died, like george floyd -- host: but if you do all that, what does it change? it will change the mentality of individuals that support oppression to the point to the -- ofs up an individual. debunk that executive order. j.,t: let's go to k. washington, d.c., on our unsure line. caller: james baldwin, i'm who i am sure you have heard of, said this is not the past. history of the present.

we carry our history with us. what i am unsure of his where to dispose of them at, because again, these statues weren't brought up until after the civil -- even fort bragg, fort hood, all those generals who fought for the confederacy that had union soldiers killed. they were insurrectionists. i am not sure why anyone would want to honor them other than to convene the notion to instill white supremacy and those, to appear as though they have not lost the war. when you go to war -- i have been overseas, and win a war happens and the nation falls, its flag falls as well as. it is no longer to be flown. or you fly a white flag have to create a new flag, which is why there is no nazi flag over germany. host: to the statues and

monuments, ultimately, what should be done? caller: first off, we have to have policy. policy should remove these statues. you have to infuse the notion that there were other people that make the nation great again. one of your caller spoke about arkansas history. 1900s, 1919, hundreds of black men and women were killed. host: so destroy the statues or put them in a museum, or put them in context? if the statues come down, what to do with them, you think? not mine.ey are i do not own them or want them.

my personal opinion would be that you put them in the barrier reef,o help reform the because the animals under the sea could really use those statues. will go to doug in virginia on our oppose line. hi. opinion is if you do not remember history, you are going to repeat it. anyone offended by these statues, they can leave. they don't have to stay. the statues offend some, isn't that part of the history? should they stay to teach that history? we take down all -- if german people are offended by the holocaust museum, do we take it down? host: stick to the united states. what do the statues to just about the whole of history? the unitedt is in

states. we have the holocaust museum. military, we fought for military people, regardless of what side they fought on. good, buty is not there is no oppression in this country. i am 71 years old. anybody whow couldn't get an education for free in this country if they go to school. it don't matter what color you are. if you don't like the way our country is, please leave. say the statues are for military people, but many of them are in the public square. how do you square that? caller: because that is the way it was. anybody says they walk past the statue and that offends them, show me your ankles. show me the with lashes on your back. it doesn't offend you. this is a fad that they want to go through to take over this country and change it. they are playing with dynamite.

before it is over with, there are going to be bad things that happen. "mary ball washington: the untold story of george washington's mother host: we will go to the eve -- host: we will go to eve in grand rapids, washington. -- grand rapids, michigan. caller: like the lady and the general who called a while back, they were telling people who had done about whatever, they do not know history. the guy saying let them go back? you know history then, you will know that this country was built off the backs and cotton revolutionize not only the united states, everyone was buying cotton from the united states. germany russia and all. i want to ask those people who are opposed to taking the statues down, when they went over there and revolutionized by iran andutionized

tore down saddam hussein's statue, are they proud of that? host: if they are removed, what does it accomplish? caller: it will accomplish the fact that we do not have to walk around and look at people that oppressed us and people that are still trying to oppress us, by reminding us that we were slaves. my father and mother were sharecroppers. mygrandfather and grandmother, they also were slaves.ppers and with that being said, i do not want to see anything from the south, except for some of my relatives. host: ok. we will go to doug, who joins us from san jose, california on our opposed line. good morning. you had a caller who talked about removing the statues and educating kids in our schools. that would be great, but it is not happening. if you want to remove state monuments -- not federal

monuments, but state monuments, put them in a museum or people can choose to go see them or not, provide context for those statues and explain who these people were and what they did. nobody is trying to hide the history of this nation. c moments. of horrifi it is full of slavery. we rolled over the native americans. it will not change the fact of racism. we had an african-american president, for god sakes. when he was president, no one seemed to object to the statues then. let's do this in an organized manner. people tearing down the statues are doing it as part of cancel culture, they are not doing it racism.e they are doing it to assert power. thank you very much. host: from kentucky, christian is there on our support line. you are next up. caller: how are you doing this

morning? host: i'm good, go ahead. caller: i support taking them down. we have to start telling the truth about what this country is. host: which means what? columbus day -- christopher columbus discovered america. that is like me showing up to your house, saying i like this, i am going to discover your house. i am taking it from you. that is how america was discovered. host: if those statues come down, what do you think is the result? caller: i think you are recognizing that those statues do not betray the truth of what this country is based on. people say this is our history. our history -- i'm sorry. host: i did not say anything. my phone is breaking up. go ahead.

host: raymond in south carolina on our oppose line. caller: i am absolutely opposed to removing these statues. if a little black child is not able to stand in front of that said you and have his father explained to him how these people get these terrible things to them and you erase that history, it is a horrible thing that can happen, but they say if you erase history, you are doomed to repeat it. this is a white supremacist movement. this is paid for by all white money like the builder birx and clinton foundation. host: what gives me direct evidence of that? caller: where is this money coming from? jesse waters had said -- host: before you go on, because you mentioned the builder bergs and the clintons, do

you have direct evidence that the money is coming from that? caller: did you notice there are more white people tearing down statues then there are black people? is there an idea that if you are tearing down the statues, context should be provided? caller: you can put context on it, but when you leave the statues there, you are wholetically -- this thing is not even about black people. host: we will go to gerald. caller: i think it's fine to remove the statues. i think they misinform us, the words that are written on them do not really tell a true history. whether we recycle them into a museum that gives a true picture of the civil war or just american history is important. i started reading -- i'm 68

almost and i started reading the newspaper daily when i was probably eight or ten years old, and i can remember reading bout ed gars and riots and various marches and occasionally murders of black people. i'm caucasian, i felt that was wrong and always have. but i notice that growing up that even in college our history books didn't tell us a lot about blacks. i took a black history course but maybe i should have taken a few more because there's a lot of black history that i think americans aren't educated on. i just remember that i had a great appreciation for the black race in particular. i have just a real deep feeling

that if we're educated properly and continue that effort, that it will take time but things will change. host: ok. gerald in texas. talking about efforts to remove monments and statues. coming up we're going to hear from an expert on these issues lincoln scholar. talking about this effort and also talking about a change of mind he has had about the whole process. that conversation coming up on "washington journal." host: joining us is harold holzer the public policy institute director for the hunter college roosevelt house and lincoln forium chair. welcome back to c-span, sir. guest: thank you for having me. host: you had a recent op ed talking about the topic of confederate monments and statues and a position now you're taking that with a littleit