and is organizations push for tax reform. later, tiffany d. cross talk about her book. ♪ -- talks about her book. ♪ >> the u.s. supreme court, in its final decisions of the term rejected president trump's claim of immunity -- or left in doubt when the da certain house committees might get the records. good morning and welcome to "washington journal." for this friday, july the 10th, 2020. we start the program this first hour asking your thoughts about the decisions yesterday from the supreme court on the president's finances and tax records. (202) 748-8000 is the line for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans.

for independents and others, that is (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a tax. make sure you tell us your name and where you are texting from. that is (202) 748-8003. on twitter, it is @cspanwj. let's start with the polling on this. both cases are the result of cases on the front of the new york time. present isn't above the law. custis is decide. two cases. the court ruled seven to two that new york prosecutors could seek mr. trump's financial records. vote they call the liberal block and conservative block, those considered in this decision that voted for this. same result in the second case, and the same majority ruled mr. trump, for now, could block

disclosure of his financial records to house committees, returning the case to lower courts to narrow the scope of the records sought. both of those cases in the polling on the cases from the new york times shows in obtaining the right to the president tax records, most people,ulled -- most 61%, polled the prosecutors have a right in the president should not be able to block access to house committees with the tax record. -- records. take a look at the wall street journal, "trump dealt set back on disclosures." one of the co-authors is a supreme court correspondent for the wall street journal. good morning. how are you. >> good morning. us through the different aspects of each. the first one, the one involving the new york district attorney.

cyrus's investigation -- cyrus of's invested -- cyrus investigation -- the president has denied those claims. hush moneyse payments were recorded in the trump organization business records. , the new york district attorney, picking up on that investigation to see if any new york state crimes may have been committed in those transactions. he is seeking those records from the accountants of mr. trump and the trump organization.

he is -- that is what he is after. the president intervened. once the district attorney issued a subpoena saying he is immune from investigation by state prosecutor while he remains in office. he has constitutional immunity from even investigative process short of indictment. host: does the court's decision mean the district attorney will be able to get those records anytime soon? guest: probably not soon if we mean soon like next week. but what the court said in essence is that the president has no absolute immunity. he is limited to the same types of defense as anybody who is being investigated can raise about alleging the subpoena is too broad or prosecutor is engaging in some selective prosecution. those are typical defenses, and if he has some claim he is being

harassed to interfere with his official duties, he might raise that defense in federal court. those will certainly be explored by the president's lawyers. i don't think they will be anytime soon the prosecutor will get the records, but it seems plausible he could get those within a matter of months. host: what about the other case? certain house committees seeking records. what were they looking for? guest: they are looking for the same records, the same set of records. the fact that new york subpoena was modeled on one of the house committee subpoenas. the outcome in that case was somewhat different. essentially, the supreme court the the interest of congress in that information is perhaps less significant than the prussic eaters looking into evidence into a specific crime.

that is his rationale. the house's rationale was that they need information to inform future legislation. the supreme court seemed to feel that was perhaps less urgent and the house would have to demonstrate why and what exactly it needed records for the president for to pursue that course. court was concerned the house did not really give limits to it's power to investigate the president. they thought the president's gave hiswas he arguments to the ability to exclude house investigators. host: you write in your wall street journal piece that cases like this are rare because, during most of u.s. history, the executive and legislative branches have worked out accommodations that reflected each other's roles. at the same time, no president's private dealings have been under

criminal investigation, providing no previous opportunity for a conflict between a local grand jury and white house to arise. the majority,es, make note of the failure of legislative and executive branch to work out their differences become -- before coming to the court of last resort? guest: absolutely. chief justice who wrote the opinion made that point quite clearly and seemed disappointed forced to that he was intervene in this dispute between coequal political branches, elected branches. he almost tried the two sides for not being able to reach an accommodation. accommodations have been reached and are motivated by not having a course go to this or bring court with the boundaries of each branch's power not to precisely defined by the constitution.

neither one once to risk a big loss at the supreme court. here, we are not in that kind of era. each side was willing to go for broke. host: lastly, the president's two appointees voting with the majority in the 7-2 scission on balance -- decision on balance. have those two generally voted in favor of administration cases involving the trump administration? guest: in general, they have sided with the administration. not always. this is one most significant example, but last month, justice gorsuch wrote the opinion of shovel rights projections -- civil rights projections to lgbt employees. trump took the opposite position. so they have not always voted with the president. this time, quite the significantly, they did not. host: a supreme court

correspondent with the wall street journal, thank you so much for the update. guest: any time. host: here is how it is being reported. in the washington beacon, their headline, supreme court gives manhattan prussic your access to trump financial records but rebuffs house democrats. your calls, your comments. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. for all others, independents (202) 748-8002. tulsa, oklahoma and hear from david. caller: good morning. i think the supreme court decisions yesterday reflected that the individuals in the supreme court are not going to be bullied, unlike congress, particular the united states senate. it was a great victory for the three branches of government, that the president is not above the law. he will have to turn over his

records at some point in time. i applaud the supreme court, applaud them for their decision, and patiently wait to see what will happen from this point forward. host: there was a significant decision effecting your state. of the three decisions, the two trump financial records cases, this is the tulsa world and leading story this morning, tribal expert calls the ruling the most important in the state history, ruling oklahoma -- part of oklahoma is still part of indian territory. what are people saying about that in tulsa? guest: if you have studied oklahoma history, i'm a teacher and have taught oklahoma history, the eastern half of the state of oklahoma was allocated five civilized tribes.

majority leader. i say majority flee -- majority majoritively. i applaud the supreme court for to save thisurage land through treaties through decades over a century. -- century belongs to indigenous people who were removed from the southeastern part of the united states. decision forndmark oklahoma and will be interesting to see how things work out on that. i think oklahomans in general -- applauding what the supreme court did. it will be interesting to see how it falls out. host: thanks for weighing in on that. we go to ohio on the financial records cases. mike is on the independent line. caller: good morning, america.

this doesn't bother me that a billionaire comes a public servant but chaos for decades. what bothers me the most people is how public servants, supposed to be working for us, can become a multimillionaire and the time they are in office. our tax money is paid off. what we need to do is open up all of the records, financial individual and congress, and the family members. according to their rule, they are hiring family members and being in the public office are making themselves millionaires. what is wrong with this picture? what we need to do, i didn't vote for trump, and i will tell

you one thing, i will vote for him because he's the only person in the building right there getting anything done. he said he's going to fix things. now.where we are trump had three years and fixed a lot of things. host: we hear from steven in the republican line. onler: i was glad yesterday the supreme court outcomes, particularly with the mayor's case. i think that is more significant than the tax return case. mainly because we don't know, financially, where his loans come from. at deutsche bank, there has been rumors on whether or not he had a cosigner or debt guaranteer connected directly to putin. think we will actually have that information about who

he actually secured his loans from the major's case before the election and end of this year? host: president trump at the white house with comments. his thoughts on what came down. we are basically starting all over again, shutting everything down to start over again. on 1.i'm satisfied and on another point am not satisfied. this is a political witchhunt, that have never been seen before. just like the mueller report was a witchhunt, which i one. -- won. everyone is leaving new york. it has turned out to be a hellhole. they need to do something about it. this is a political witchhunt.

it started before i got here, when obama and biden, and everybody else was spying on my campaign illegally. they were illegally spying on my campaign, and it is a very great crime. it is the biggest political crime in the history of our country. host: yesterday, the front page of the washington post "justice is rejected's immunity claims." the supreme court rejected president trump's claims of immunity from local law enforcement and congressional investigators, a lesson on the separation of powers and limits of presidential authority. in one of the two rulings, chief rejectedohn g roberts trump's arguments that he did not have to comply with the subpoena and said vance had no authority -- had authority to pursue his business and financial records. in the other, the court says the restrictions the president imposed for private,

nonprivileged information risk seriously impeding congress in carrying out its responsibilities. still, the court put hold on the subpoenas, suggesting overreach. the court sent the cases back to lower courses, where they said trump could challenge the specifics. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents and others, (202) 748-8002. is @cspanwj.t here's one thing i would like to officially thank neil gorsuch for -- brettnaugh kavanaugh for voting for the rule of law yesterday. trump will avoid any meaningful oversight because the court ran out the clock. a new era begins and a future

president will know no day of peace with mindless congress demanding anything and everything from the exec to branch and it -- executive branch and its head. likeel in portland says, some of the other cases, the course didn't repudiate trump back for trumpse to re-phase to have a better chance. these are not so much decisions rather than delays. caller: i don't think we should be investigating trump. he is our president. we should be letting him run our country. instead of starting these meaningless investigations. first, we had the russian, then ukraine, now this. this is only going to further make it harder for him to run the country. said --gue of mine

host: to robert in maryland. independent line. caller: good morning. i'm calling. i don't understand. aboutis a documentary now roy cohn called a coward and victim. donald trump learned all of his lessons from him. , everything roy cohn did donald trump does the same way. cohn didn't pay taxes either. everything cohn did, trump does the same way. he claims to be a victim every time someone accuses him, tries to bully people. it's crazy. i can't believe people follow this guy. host: david graham rights the headline on his speech, "trump is successfully running out the

clock." 55 days ago, president donald trump was supposed to file his personal financial disclosures, which gave a broad snapshot of his money situation. the white house gave its employees 45 extra days to file the report, citing the coronavirus pandemic, making the new deadline june 29, 10 days ago. trump still has not released the disclosures. the white house told the new york times the president had been given another 45 days because of the pandemic again and he "intends to file as soon as possible." don't hold your breath rights david graham, and don't place any big bets on seeing the documents november 3. the trump white house has perfected the art of foot dragging, producing regime, which the president is required to do certain things as a matter of transparency and accountability. in reality, a widely way to avoid them. rule stands. in practice, where it stands is outside of the door, fruitlessly

to common. nancy pelosi, yesterday, talked about the decisions and what it means for the tour of house oversight. >> this is not so much about the president's records, although we would like to know how russia funded his operation all of those years -- but that is not what was at stake. what was at stake is the president above the law? is this court friendly to the insident, going to rule favor of executive branch and say there is no congressional oversight? undermining our system of checks and balances. for us, that is what was important and what is at stake, a system of checks and balances. as i say in my statement, the genius of the constitution. if in fact they would have ruled he is not above the law, that he can do whatever he wants without any oversight from

congress, that would have been just devastating to tell you the truth. and we would still fight it. we would still fight it because they would have abandoned all presidents and the rest -- rest ofce and the congress having oversight authority. however, they did not. the bickering is for the constitution of the united states. host: the wall street journal's account writer writing about the speaker of the house in her column, supreme loser, pelosi's house. casesrsday, cut it into concerning the cases for president trump's financial records, back to lower courts. if the cases had no clear winner, one of the rulings did produce a loser. nancy pelosi's overzealous house. kimberly writes writing for the majority, john roberts took note of the house's unrestrained

behavior, explaining this dispute was the first of its kind to reach the high court after two centuries in which congress and the white house were able to work such disagreements out. can the court held congress continue pushing for sleepiness -- for casinos, but henceforward, all courts will subject subpoenas several tests. kimberly ends by writing this, will the prior spirit of compromise and negotiation ever rain again? -- reign again? democrat antitrust mania created a separation of power circumstance that require judicial intervention. the ruling is another reminder for all demo rats about mr. trump raking "institutions and norms," and it is the resistance left that has produced the most wreckage. we go to our democrats line and hear from wayne in alabama. caller: yes, sir. i will vote for the guy i like

thisest, but i'm surprised terrible court we have in this country. if you have money, you can have the case go from one court, to another court, to another court, and nothing ever gets done. i don't know why the supreme court exists. a rule, they make everybody agree to it. like a judge for a traffic ticket or red lights, the judges word is the last word. the supreme court is making a mockery of the whole judicial system. i wish they would dissolve the whole thing. host: here is sandy on our republican line from kentucky. caller: hello? host: hi, sandy. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been a republican for over 50 years, and i'm so appalled by his behavior. i will not vote for this man.

host: are you still there? caller: yes, i am still here. my question is, how long are we going to let him get away with breaking laws that any other citizen cannot get away with? racist, hasing, been racist since i lived in new york 50 years ago, 40 years ago with him. he has a strong record of racism. he will tell you right to your face he does not like you, and he gets a way with it. ideal of aupremacist man that they want to run this country. he is running scared. the white man is running scared. that i havethings

never -- i'm 70 years old -- that i have never seen in my whole entire life. int: we hear from brenda indiana, pennsylvania. a democrats line. caller: i am extremely disappointed with the decision not to allow congress to have access to his papers. i believe it is in the public's best interest to know whether trump is making decisions based on his best interest or hours. -- ours. he brought the scrutiny on himself because for two years, he promised to release his tax returns and to the vest's businesses or put them into a blind trust -- to divest his businesses or put them into a blind trust. he didn't do any of those things. ran aw he fraudulent university. we know he embezzled the money that his supporters had donated

to be used for veterans. he admitted to embezzling that money. it is in the court filing. i believe that the case with erdogan, i believe he threatened turkeybout his hotels in if he didn't remove our troops from the border. it is absolutely in the best interest of the public to know whether trump is making decisions in our best interest or in his financial best interest. you think in do particular the new york district attorney will get those financial records in the next six months or so? caller: no. i think trump's lawyers will bury the u.s. attorney in --erwork and delays, and we i'm not sure we will ever now, but one thing i was hoping for, what i thought would happen, i believed the supreme court would rule for congress to get the papers. as i said, they have a strong

case. what is in the best interest of the public to know. -- if if congress ruled the supreme court ruled in congress' favor and may trump turn over his financial records, i strongly believed trump would resign rather than let the american people see his financial business. host: thank you for your call. there is a snapshot headline from usa today, kind of where things stand. they say neither gop or dems get a clear went on president trump's taxes. he must release records to prosecutors but not to congress. a text from (202) 748-8003. never believes in the law. no one is audited until the end of time, which is the excuse trump uses.

if he has nothing to hide, he would show tax returns just as others who have run for president have done. trump is a crook. of that there is no doubt. renee in newport, news. it is about time trump stalled and stonewalled enough. if he is as honest as he says he have released his taxes. he wouldn't be this defensive if there was nothing to hide. john in michigan, taxes are private and should not be made public unless wanted to. in massachusetts, eddie is on the republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i can't believe this. don't they realize the irs is constantly monitoring his income tax? if there was anything wrong, don't you think they would bring it to attention? as far as civil courts, i thought the president was immune from civil litigation because he

would be inundated with the opposition's lawsuits. host: we showed you usa today headline a moment to go the same article in usa today. they write this about vice president -- former vice president joe biden. he released his own tax returns, revealing he made more than 15 million dollars since leaving the obama administration. trump broke with decades of tradition by declining to release his tax records as a candidate. initially signaling he would and then saying he couldn't because he was under audit. in a preview, how the candidates may frame the issue for voters, biden retweeted the touting of his own taxes and admonished trump to "release yours or shut up." trump argued that the courts have previously given president rod deference but not me.

this is all a political prosecution. that's what the president tweeted. in springfield, illinois. caller: good morning. then q for taking my call. support the decision. i think god the system of checks and balances still exists, despite the fact that we had to take it to the supreme court. he has promised he would disclose his taxes for the last 10 years. the audit does not take that long. you have to question why is he audited every year? heat could sue the irs saying you guys are unfairly investigating my dealings. you know he is a liar.

the idea republicans support someone who is a tax cheat possibly, who is insurance fraud possibly, we know he is [inaudible] why is it that the president of the mostd states has -- in the highest position? are you to support someone with , marriedds of morals three times, she did as much as that, paid a point star, which is the cause of this case, $130,000 when she was married with his child on the way. this was reality. you can't change the facts. republicans that still support him? he hasn't reached over 40% in a long time. the country needs to change.

joe biden is not the perfect candidate. we are not all happy. i was a elizabeth warren and bernie sanders supporter, but we need the change. republicans need to make the change with us. vote for joe biden, try to get the normality of the white house , possibly. point,d at one [inaudible] and this is years, where we are. we need to ask the questions, where do you send this orange faced man back to florida and where will his [inaudible] go to john next in jacksonville, florida. go ahead. caller: thanks, everybody. i think releasing the tax returns of any leaders at this point will be a frenzy of

puranas chewing on every piece to tear everyone down. i don't know we will learn -- i don't know if we will learn guy.hing about this we should more invest our time in trying to get them together and collaborate rather than going to their separate corners and fighting over every little detail. thank you. host: here's what the minority leader, kevin mccarthy, had to say about the rulings yesterday on capitol hill. >> i have not seen the ruling yet. the supreme court made a decision. i have watched president trump abide by all of the requests someone has for financial disclosure, which are much more thorough than any tax returns. the new yorke district attorney and others who have tried for it, it seems much more political than anything else. i think this decision was already made by the president releasing all of his financial disclosures when he ran for president the first time.

back to your calls. arthur -- host: back to your calls. arthur in new jersey. caller: i'm calling in reference to the tax. i think president trump is hiding everything. in order for him to keep hiding, we will see what trump has on him. [inaudible] sooner or later, work gonna find out what putin has on him. i know he has a lot of stuff on him. [inaudible] host: arthur kind of breaking up there. this is a piece in the washington post on the rulings, examining whether trump truly won or lost a pair of court rulings. in the newspaper this morning, a photo of the district attorney

in new york. this is cyrus vance who called the ruling a tremendous victory. the question is, did trump win? the washington post said in a legal sense, no. the court rejected trump's attempts to cancel the subpoena. it also rejected his argument in the vance case, which was a sitting president is immune from investigations by state and local prosecutors. in a political sense, the answer is yes because trump only has to win one one more election -- when one more election. it will him be unlikely that people see has financial records before then if they ever do. phil on the independent line, go ahead. would comment on how stupid the american people are with their selective memories. when he was in the debate with hillaryclinton, he told

he doesn't pay taxes. because of her laws. her tax laws, he doesn't pay taxes. , andis what he told her nobody seems to remember that, but i do. willguy is a crook and always be a crook. he has always been a crook. worse than nixon. that is my comment. host: anna is next in new carlisle, ohio. republican line. caller: i think if trump is supposed to disclose his financial records and his tax returns, all of this started done before,asn't was kinda voluntary, then i think all of congress should do it. anybody in there more than 10 years should have to disclose dealings.ir financial

some of them own casinos and other things. that wheneverdy the democrats got into the house, you may as well bend over and kiss it goes by -- kiss it goodbye. that is what is going to happen to this country. this country is never going to be the same. you will reap what you sow. host: on our democrats line, patrick in virginia. caller: i would like to ask ms. kimberly how many presidents in business200 years had ties with russia. thank you. host: yesterday, we covered a hearing with the defense secretary and chairman of the joint chiefs, a headline reporting on that in his task thee column, jeff with

headline. 10 army bases are named for confederate officers who committed "treason." this is the chairman of the joint chiefs at yesterday's testimony. we have tools -- improve the substance and promotions of the military. we also have to take a hard look at the symbols, things like confederate flags, statues, and bases. -- faces. the american civil war was ofght and it was an act rebellion, active treason at the time against the union, against the stars and stripes, against the u.s. constitution. those officers turned their back on their oath. some have a different view of that. some think it is heritage. others think it is hate. the way we should do it matters as much as that we should do it. -- i have have recommended a commission of folks to take a hard look at the

statues, faces, names, and all of this stuff. host: the chairman of the joint chiefs, all of that hearing available at c-span.org. president trump this weekend reedted to visit walter medical center in bethesda, maryland. headline from political, "i expect to wear a mask during upcoming hospital visit." president trump said yesterday he will likely wear a mask while visiting walter reed this week, taking another step back from his previous reticence toward facial coverings. speaking with fox news, john hannity, trump said it is fine to wear a mask if it makes you feel comfortable. deborah on the independent line in hendersonville, north carolina. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think taxes are personal. person.a rich

i was audited for five years in a row. i think sometimes they just choose who they audit. somebody with president trump's stature, of course he has a lot of investments, and everybody thinks he's hiding some thing. with three and a half to four years of investigation on the president and nothing has turned up. you would think something would have turned up by now. the financial records they have disclosed when the running for president tells more than what your income tax. york, as the state of new they have all of his income tax records. not income tax but stay tax records. if there was something there, they would have got him on that.

if it goes through this anymore, i think it should be a slippery slope. nancy pelosi and others that are very rich in the senate and congress, republican or democrat, should be audited on their taxes. how do they become millionaires when they are in congress and the senate? .t doesn't make sense it's not fair to the american people. like i say, i make less than $50,000 per year, and i was audited for five years about 15 years ago, but i was audited for every year for five years. so it does not make sense, and i would also like to say all of the people out there, you without sin cast the first stone. people change. i think president trump has changed. david was a man of god in the

bible. he committed murder. i'm not saying that is right. i believe it is wrong. know -- host: we will go to teresa in denton, texas. caller: good morning. how are you? host: fine, thanks. caller: i just want to call and request anybody, democrats or republican, to do simple google searches. i follow donald trump almost my entire life -- followed donald trump my entire life. even though he's not an honest inson, he is pretty much debt -- he ran around with the mafia the majority of the lifetime, both russian and italian. ofy would do google searches where he has his hotels, one in panama, one in iran, one in

turkey. are indentedplaces up with money laundering and even drug trafficking in panama. it is a patriotic thing to do if they would just take the time with all of this so-called russian hoax. if they considered themselves patriots, why didn't they do the byht, patriotic thing and the mueller report. host: on twitter, a couple reactions here. this one a graphic sign, show us your taxes. another says this marks the beginning of the end of the criminal trump enterprises. trump is a flight risk after january 20. woulda says dj t said he release his tax returns after the election and now he refuses. he lied. vicki from wichita says the

victory lap on this is funny. i think it is funny that the democrats are yelling putin. this is a great segue to get records of every congressional member. in florida, good morning to keep all -- keith on the independent line. caller: yes. i think it is a win for trump, a wants tohoever else see his records. i believe it is just a sham no matter how you look at it, just like -- if this was anyone else, any other president, if this was hillary, which i didn't vote for everyonet was obama, who wants his taxes hid will be screaming at the top of their lungs to have them released. we all know trump is corrupt to the core, but no matter what, just like one gentleman had called her and said jesus and the devil [inaudible]

onif jesus and the devil was the ballot, the devil would get some votes. host: the next caller is on the democrat line. caller: we can't figure out who would vote for this pathological liar and the lying that has spread to all of the people in the republican side, all of the people in the administration, even down from what is going on from the damage, the pandemic, and everything they do seems to be alive. i think they realize they can get away with all of these things -- a lie. i think they realize they can get away with these things. host: that is weighing in merrick -- that is weighing in maryland. -- wayne in maryland. i want to point you to the clerk of the house on financial disclosure reports. you can access this online at clerks. house.gov.

what are financial disclosure reports? they include information's about the amount or value of incomes, certain employees of the u.s. house, and related candidates for the u.s. house of representatives. these are filed with the clerk as required by title i of the ethics of government act of 1978. section eight of the stock act requires the clerk of the house of representatives provide online public access to financial disclosure reports filed by members of congress and candidates for congress. at can find that online clerk.house.gov. looking at the u.s. capitol, the house and senate are out for the july 4 break. talking this morning, in our remaining 15 minutes, about the two court cases from the supreme court, decisions coming down

yesterday. this is the reporting of the washington times. justices tell trump he is not immune to criminal law. state prosecutors can demand to see the president's tax returns. congress faces a much higher hurdle as the supreme court ruled a pair of cases, closing with a 2019-2020 term major statement on presidential powers. the rulingsites will likely shall president trump's financial records at least through the election to give a win to mr. trump's campaign because he has long refused to make his returns public as presidential candidates have customarily done for decades. they say the high court led by john roberts rejected the president legal argument that he has absolute immunity from subpoenas for his personal financial records. the seven to two decision of the seven, included two trump appointees, neil gorsuch and kavanaugh -- brett kavanaugh.

the press secretary was asked about that at yesterday's white house briefing. entitled toces are their opinion, this is an independent branch of government. as for a decision, president trump underscored this in the oval office that it was justice kavanaugh that pointed out in the new -- in the new york state support case that there was y --imous support that the it was unanimous agreement. also, there was a note in the roberts opinion at the new york state case, basically the grand jury said they were prohibited from arbitrary fishing expeditions and initiating investigating's out of malice. that language made it clear this was a win for the president. host: took calls, this is sam in woodland park, new jersey. republican line. caller: i would like to say

president trump has every right to keep his income tax papers secret. because we have internal revenue service. they can see if he did cheat or not. [inaudible] will nancy pelosi show our taxes or open her books for me? thank you. host: in michigan, don on our democrats line. caller: good morning. my comment is, i believe the supreme court made a correct decision in both cases. feel if the president is not above the law, he should be entitled to full protection of the law. if there is a specific case, as in new york where his financial records are pertinent, fine, you can subpoena them.

but just to subpoena for congress, to subpoena his records just on a hunch or without any specific case would be absolutely wrong. it would be no different than me filing a lawsuit on some type or another and trying to subpoena your records, even though it may not have bearing on the case. i guess that is my comment. said don, somebody earlier the president's lawyer could slow down the proceedings by burying the district attorney in new york in paperwork. do you think that is likely to happen in their quest to get the president's records after the supreme court decision? caller: i think they probably will. if you are in any kind of a legal case you will do whatever win, delay,o try to indo whatever is going to be

your most favorite. that, soonersure or later, they will get the record saying if it is in a criminal case, then they shouldn't be released to the public either. i guess that's my feeling. i am a democrat and don't care much for trump at all. are getting away from the constitution of the united states here, and i really applaud the supreme court's decision. host: appreciate that. comments. by tax, (202) 748-8003 is how you reach us -- text, (202) 748-8003 is how you reach us. of texting us, he tells us how he is a billionaire and made his money, smartest man in the world, law-abiding president would show his taxes. the real impact of these decisions is that eventually all

aspects of privacy will be lost politically and for all future presidents there will be second and third presidents. there will be second and third order effects resulting from the complete breakdown of relationships on capitol hill that all future presidents not named trump will have to deal with. steve in south carolina says people in certain positions, the government should complete form 450 every year. it is a financial disclosure form listing companies you have a financial interest in and it identifies conflict of interests. i could not invest in dell because the government buys dell computers like penny candy. the president should complete the 450 form. lawmakers far over how to reopen schools across the u.s.. pelosi criticizes trump demand for student attendance this fall. the president tweeting about

reopening schools this morning a few minutes ago. haveys "now that we witnessed large-scale bases in first-hand, virtual learning has moved to be terrible compared to in school or on-campus learning. not even close. schools must open in the fall. if not open, why would the federal government give funding? it won't." from president trump 10 minutes ago. vicki on our republican line, go ahead. caller: hi. i'm trying to understand something. how can they request for his tax returns when there is no written law that says he has to? number one, that is private. what he did before he even got elected has nothing to do with what he is doing now in the presidency. host: on the one case, the court said the president in the new

york case, that he does not have immunity from prosecution. the criminal case -- in the criminal case going on there. that decision, whether to release them, will go back to a lower court. the new york district attorney can have access to them according to the ruling by the supreme court. caller: but he cannot give them to congress, so why is congress going all out? nancy pelosi for one, going all out to get his taxes. what is the reason? what is the reason? they don't need his taxes. if it goes down to something like that, why doesn't anybody who is working in the government have to release their taxes? they should have to. for a president, that is wrong. host: as we pointed out too, the members of congress that have to file financial disclosure forms,

we showed you the website of the clerk of the u.s. house. the fella just what to -- tweeted us about the financial disclosure form 450. steve had to fill out that every year as do all federal employees, according to steve. just refreshing on the two decisions by the supreme court yesterday. the headline, the associated press story, no peeking voters. court keeps trump taxes private for now, rejecting donald trump's complaints he is being harassed. the supreme court ruled thursday in favor of a new york us acute or's demand for the -- prosecutors demand for the tax records. good news for trump, his tax records will almost certainly be kept out of the public eye at least until after the november election. in a separate case, the justices kept a hold on banking and other documents about trump family members and his business is that congress had been seeking for more than a year. the court said while congress

has significant power to demand the president's personal information, it is not limitless. the court turned away the broadest argument by trump's lawyers. and the justice department -- lawyers and the justice department that the president was immune while holding office. it's unclear when a lower court judge might order the manhattan district attorney's subpoena be enforced. in kansas, roger on the democrats line. caller: yes. i wanted to bring up my eyes were opened about there is a disclosure form that he has to fill out, which then pretty much should clear him. in other words, he has done all he needs to do. as far as tending his -- handing his tax return over to congress or anyone in washington dc, it has already been proven that donald trump cannot trust anyone in washington, d.c..

-- d.c. everything gets leaked. there is no ally of his. except for his closest people. -- if he needs to keep this was a big factor, they should have come up in the first election and not the second election. host: to janet in michigan. good morning. caller: this is janet from lake odessa. people know how much trump has done for the united states and what his desire is to help them. why is there so much hatred? why is there so much hatred for trump? it's -- i just don't understand it. i also want to say that, if anybody would look at a president or anyone running for office, they should look to see what is he -- what he is running for.

, top runs for a good reason protect america, to help them get through rough times, and to be honest and to quit the abortion thing and all that has done so much awfulness to our united states. i think you, sir. host: to michael in muskegon, wisconsin. democrats line. caller: hello. i wanted to say, since ronald reagan, every presidential candidate or president has released their taxes. if it was good enough for reagan, bush, and h bush junior, why isn't it good enough for donald trump? because we are going to find out that vladimir putin and russians have given very much money to donald trump. thank you. host: mark is next up on the independents line in saint

peters, missouri. hello there. caller: hello and thank you for taking my call. i wanted to weigh in to say i think this is absolutely ridiculous. it is another attempt of the democrats trying to obstruct and trying to go after trump. they have been doing it ever since before he was even elected as president. one other comment that i want to make is that i see these polls out there that show joe biden is leading the president and everything, and i want to remind everybody that they need to take that with a grain of salt, because every time i am contacted to ask who i'm going to vote for and things like that, i never tell -- i tell them i will write in bill de blasio's name as president. i don't want to show my cards, so i think there are millions of voters out there like me that

are going to vote for president vote for president ismp because the alternative simply not acceptable. thank you. host: there is more ahead on this friday morning. we'll talk about the impact of coronavirus on taxpayers and additional tax relief or reform. cross program, tiffany and thecuss her book 2020 election. ♪ american history tv on c-span3, exploring people and events telling the american story, every weekend. coming up this weekend, saturday, 2 p.m. eastern, oral

antories, an , serving the secretary general. on sunday, 4 p.m. eastern on real america, the 1963 nbc news report, the american revolution of '63, a news program on the status of the civil rights movement, including birmingham, alabama, cambridge, maryland, chicago and brooklyn. 7:00 p.m., a discussion on congress, political parties and andrization with historians political scientists. 8:00 p.m., the presidency, andrew cohen talks about his , 1963n john f. kennedy

and the response to the nuclear arms race and civil rights. exploring the american story. watch american history tv, this weekend, on c-span3. washington journal continues. day isnusual to say but july 15, we are joined near tax day by robert orne quist, joining us to talk about tax day this year, unusual with the delay from april 15. what do you think the pandemic of thee to the coffers anticipated revenue of tax coming in? guest: revenues have come down because the government, federal and state, shut down a lot of activities. march-april,llapse

20 million jobs lost. we are starting to come back strong. may had 2.5 million jobs created. june, 4.8 million net new jobs. both are historic records. it is not as if the economy was weak and it is getting stronger. the economy is strong. it was shut down in many parts. as it opens, it is returning to the more robust economy we have in january-february of this year, the last couple years. nothing has changed. growth,xes gave us more they are still there. the deregulation, as of one year ago was saving $220 billion per .ear in terms of excess cost

that is an old number. it is higher now. they are struggling with governors, mayors and the federal government at points, tough to travel, bars and restaurants. killeds of jobs were not but put on pause and hopefully will come back strong. .hey have not yet come back revenues for state and local governments are lower. there has not been as much activity by the state to rein in spending, recognizing this challenge. some states have good, robust rainy day funds. minutes go for about 40 with rainy day funds. host: in terms of federal response, $2.6 trillion in federal money so far passed by congress. do you think most of that

response has been appropriate and well used? guest: it is not only government programs. there will be massive errors and mistakes and checks going to people and companies that do not exist but given that it is a brand-new program, one expects problems like that. the government did a calculation they think they preserved 51 million jobs so far with the paycheck protection plan. that was helpful. those were jobs threatened because of the government shutdown, not the restaurants, not that some company was stupid and lost money, so it should go bankrupt because it was misspending its own resources. these are economic problems caused by the government, like when a government decides to

build a road across your form, they have to pay you for the damages to your farm. was to try to keep people employed, not lose their jobs and go on unemployment. that has certainly stabilized job loss. people lose their jobs even in a strong economy. jobs are created, jobs are lost. it is that what you would expect to have them in a regular economy, people leaving or coming back. that has been helpful. one challenge is when they increased, they put a federal addition on the unemployment compensation. states have state plans, usually covers half your salary after a certain point. it is a good cushion. not the same thing as having a job. it gives you something. week fordded $600 per

$2400 per month for four months, temporarily. most of the federal response, almost all, has been temporary reforms. that is helpful. you don't want a temporary problem to always be here and make permanent changes, 100 years from now you are still paying for the covid program. they have avoided that. because they added the $2400 a month onto state unemployment for 63% to 68% of americans, they took home more money unemployed than employed. it will discourage bringing people back into the workforce. that ends august 1. you should see significant people returning to work. the washingtonp,

post points out a photo from last year. americans for tax reform foundation took a loan of $150,000 to $350,000 from that program, the ppp. betweenthe difference your foundation and americans for tax reform. how did you use the money from that loan? guest: americans for tax reform is a political organization that fights for lower taxes and less money. 4.1(c) that was not open to the ppp programs, received no federal money, would not take federal money. the foundation is like the brookings institute, which is a foundation that does research. foundations and companies were open to keeping people employed.

we laid no one off. i took a pay cut. with atr. we did not have to lay anyone off, which is exactly what ppp was looking for. whether you are a foundation, university, college, not-for-profit, they wanted those jobs protected as well as what we think of a manufacturing firm or company. it is for nonprofits and for profits. the goal was to make up for the damage, telling people they cannot fly places or do certain work, does to any nonprofit or for-profit. host: do you think your organization will need additional aid for employees? guest: i don't think so. it was badly hurt at first. conferences and so on that they organized, and they were all

canceled. that will not continue forever. i think that is fine. we have been able to protect jobs and keep people working, which is the point. unemployment can cost the government in some other way. you never know how other ways you could have done it. we have been advocates of the idea of eliminating, for six months or one year, social security tax, fica tax. that would drop the cost of hiring someone for a company/ nonprofit by 15%. expensive ands they keep more of their earnings. workkes coming back to more remunerative and less expensive to keep someone in a job or to hire someone new. the president expressed interest

in the idea. less support in congress. it is always brought up as an option. it has been done in the past. host: what impact might it have on social security? reduce revenues to the trust fund? guest: they have done this in the past, simply saying, the federal government will make up the money not collected for social security. it adds to the deficit. if you spent the money on some other program, it adds to the deficit. this is a tax cut you do deficit spending into the social security program. social security, thank you for asking, wait a minute, are we not fully funding social security? all the money that would have been raised for social security would be raised, similarly through the income tax and right now through deficit spending. that is one proposal. the most important thing to do

is consistent with health concerns to open up those parts of the economy that can be opened. there weretates, some mistakes made. people were told they could not go out in a boat in the middle of a lake by themselves or they could not play golf by themselves. but it is ok if you wandered around on the golf course, but not if you have a golf club, this was the governor of michigan. that has nothing to do with health. jobs, with masks, can be done safely. we need to move more and more of that as quickly as we can to get people working. covid,lth concerns of there are also health concerns of people not being at work, mental health and because they told people, you cannot come into hospitals and do certain elective surgeries, people have been putting off surgeries.

we have seen an increase in death from other things, that maybe because people don't go to the hospital and let something go longer than they should have. the cost of the reaction to covid is not just more unemployment. it is also a health cost we need to keep down. host: our guest is the president of americans for tax reforms. we approach july 15, moved from april 15, tax day, because of the pandemics. we welcome your comments. (202)-748-8000 for democrats, (202)-748-8001 for republicans, (202)-748-8002 for independents. calls,we get to headlines from the wall street journal. "mnuchin sees new stimulus." talk of mitch mcconnell interested in additional spending. what is your view of more federal response, monetary

response to the pandemic? guest: the different ways you can do it, certainly there are tax cuts you can do to make it easier to hire people and keep people hired. some of those were down in the first plan, in terms of companies losing money, could you average tax burden over forward and backward so you're not paying more or less in taxes but you even it out. that was helpful. saved a lot of companies. that was a good idea. is, whene challenges you talk about stimulus, if you take a dollar from somebody and give it to someone else, you have not stimulated the economy. if you take a bucket of water from one side of the lake and walk around the lake and pour it back in, you have not stimulated the lake. you simply moved it. we have this challenge when obama did $800 billion in what

he called the stimulus package. we have the weakest recovery sincethe great depression you did not change the incentives to people to work, save and invest. you just threw a bunch of money out there. that can be helpful in a crisis. if there is nothing else. it does not stimulate the economy. both, the vice president said they wanted to keep it to $1 trillion, which for washington, is restraint, and there are concerns we need reform. trial lawyers have been talking about suing the people who make vaccines. that will delay vaccines. if people go back to work and get covid, can you sue everyone involved? which pace, people won't be hired. -- in which case, people won't be hired.

i think reducing or eliminating social security tax for the rest of the year is a way to increase wages and reduce the cost of hiring people and keeping them and that would give you a real impact as a way to do it. host: one of your notable quotes, paraphrasing, you said in the past you don't want to get rid of government but you would like it small enough to drown in a bathtub. extending the metaphor, could a government the size of a bathtub respond to something like this pandemic? guest: that is an interesting issue. what is the response to covid? what did we learn in health care? 700 plus different deregulations, getting rid of laws, suspending regulation, because we found they got in the way of fighting against the virus. americans for tax reform, atr.o

rg/rules, look for the deregulation. deregulations. cdc announced we will come up with a test. no one else is allowed. six weeks, they did that. they came up with a test that did not work. instead of going to the various companies, universities around the world and the u.s. in saying , what do you got? come up with a test. we will buy it. for six weeks, we had a government monopoly, cdc, saying they were smarter than anyone else and no one else could do it. it was opened, we got lots of different testing and accurate tests. we have plenty of testing out. we lost six weeks because government bureaucracy got in the way. cdc wanted the tests.

rules.d all these fda has a lot of rules on a new drug. they are going back to some progress we made in the fight against aids. all of the things the administration did that got in the way of speeding things up, they sidetracked that for aids. we should do that for all new drugs. forward asmove it safely and as quickly as possible. when you come up with a new medicine that saves 5000 lives per year, ok, but it took you 10 years together, that means 50,000 people died while you are waiting for that. maybe you have to spend some time testing but was 10 years necessary? maybe not. levelare laws at state where a doctor across the state line is not a doctor in the next eight or a nurse practitioner --

the next state or a nurse practitioner, and those things have been put aside because they had to move practitioners across state lines. most of the problems have come from government being too sporadic. governments are always monopolies until you take it to the local level. i think we have learned a great deal, it has been helpful, and we can avoid some of those mistakes in the future. government was too large, too monopolistic and stop others from helping and got in the way. remember the plastic bag bans? a bunch of cities did that. they found that those one-time use plastic bags were very good in avoiding getting covid or other viruses because we have those bags you use again and again and again, they build up

problems. plastic bags got people sick. government telling people what to do and how to take care of their health -- the do-gooders wanted to ban plastic bags kill to some people. host: let's open it to callers. south bend, indiana, donald. caller: i told the screener i will be civil. listening to this man's spiel. said about theu infamous quote. here if thise current administration have gutted -- the people that were supposed to go potentialght such

epidemics -- guest: do you mean china? caller: listen to what i'm saying. i understand people don't like to pay taxes. i understand that. there is a role for the government. this is a classic example where people,rnment who had health care professionals ready to help uswherever pandemic or virus at bay. i think people like you and i think people like christian you, youou people like are responsible for what we are going through right now. -- i hold two people you responsible.

if you want to know why i hold christian responsible, it is -- thisof how he project read map and how that has gutted our governments that were so one-sided -- host: i will let you go south bend. he has not followed what happened. the idea that governments fix things. communist china is a big, powerful government. they decided to lie to the world about the nature of covid, about whether it was spreading and they knew about it for some time. then the world health atanization bought the line the same time telling people, this is not a big deal. the idea that we have too little

government is counterfactual. communist china is a big government which decided to lie to people about the problem, lied to the world and the who. the reason why we are pulling out of the who is they were praising the chinese for the stuff they were doing and not playing a role of getting information out but basically repeating -- i understand governments don't like to be embarrassed. that is why governments and monopolies are problematic. they don't like embarrassing things. you go through a list of how we got from here to there, too much government, too much intrusive government allowed this to spread faster. governments lying to people, not letting people have information. dictatorship and how it runs its politics. they have a government monopoly

on the press. they did not allow americans to show up and look around. if the u.s. have enough resources on the ground early enough in china, cdc or otherwise, you pointed out your issues with the cdc's slow response. what about on the ground in china? could we have had a better presence? communist chinese had given permission -- having people on the ground walked around by communist chinese officials would not necessarily have bought you more. in all the preparations, for the virus, or spent down early in the obama-biden years, not replaced. this idea that government plans

ahead terribly well is counterfactual or that joe biden and obama did a good job there is counterfactual. they never brought us back to the stores we had. i think we should have them stored in private hospitals, private capacity, so we don't rely on the government to tell us, oh yeah, we got enough. how do we know? clunky andis big and does not get things done quickly. they set up monopolies and tell other people they cannot participate. that is what the cdc and fda did. the swiss tested drug. we don't care what you think. we will spend time and do it all over again. japan says the u.s. will look at it for a month. as long as their tests look good, that drug is available here. they don't replicate the expensive american process again. there is no reason why we should

and coming up with vaccines, have to replicate serious work from the swiss, german, japanese universities in efforts, or companies. there is a lot we can do. competition always beats monopolies and government is always a monopoly. host: renee, waterboard, waterburg,, -- connecticut, republican line. caller: hello! i hope you can be as honest as you can. guest: ok. caller: i am wondering why did someone with as much education, wealth and backing behind you feel you needed to take the cares act for your nonprofit and at the same time you are asking for smaller government, yet you

are taking this money and you have all this power, knowledge, friends and do you feel at all guilty for the mom-and-pop's that cannot get the money now because you took it and was there any alternative you could have done in your company with all your wisdom to have not taken that money? host: renee, thanks for that. guest: we have been through this. that call was on the republican line? look. the point is, what we are trying -- it has plenty of resources, so her assumption of crowding out is not true. it is a loan. your goal, when you get badly damaged as a company or business

or foundation or school or university, to try and make sure you do not have to lay people off short-term. reform, ther tax sister organization of the foundation, we did not oppose the plan for just that reason. this is an effort by government to fix a problem the government created. they shut your business down. they told you you could not go to work. they made the planes not fly. as a result, it is reasonable for the government to make some effort to make people whole. we want to do it in the most effective way possible. ituggest a better way to do is to temporarily reduce or eliminate fica tax. junction,ett, grand colorado, republican line. caller: good morning.

i would like refer to a place in the constitution on taxes. maybe you can explain to me and your audience. section one, i mean, article one, section 8, taxes throughout the u.s. should be uniform. could you explain the uniform part as far as percentage goes, how that would balance out with people? i would also like to encourage people to read the constitution. wordt through it word for since this impeachment thing was going on. i would like to make a small comment about the guarantee in the constitution, for the democrats, to look for the word democratic or democrat in the constitution or the confederation papers, section, article 4, section 4, it refers

union, "the in this united states shall guarantee to every state in this union, a republican form of government." democrat'in there anywhere. guest: because taxes have to be uniform, that was the reason they struck down original efforts to get income tax because it would discriminate among people based on income as opposed to a sales tax or head tax or property tax. downresult, it was struck by the courts. they had to amend the constitution to allow the income tax to be put in. 1913, it wasut in, 7%.

you had to make $11 million to pay 7%. below that for everybody else. all taxes tend to grow. income tax was put in, partly as a result of trying to replace the money lost during prohibition. they wanted to get rid of liquor sales in the country. the prohibitionists helped get the income tax because people said, we cannot outlaw this, that is a lot of revenue but we will fix that with income tax. we got prohibition. not very helpful. and income tax. more than 100 years without a tax break. just fine. that was the argument you had. forward, thisg election gives you a stark comparison between the candidates and how the economy will do will be determined more

by the direction of taxes in the next year than the pandemic, at this point, as we are opening up and things are getting better. look forward. friend, mr.our taxn call for $4.3 trillion increase on the american people, over a decade, three point trillion, hillary clinton wanted $1 trillion. he wants three times this large a tax increase as hillary did. $3.4 trillion. when we are talking china, the chinese have a 25% tax on businesses. when obama was president, we had 35% taxes. jobs moving overseas, investment going to china, they only pay 25%. the federal income tax was 35% on businesses.

we lost money, jobs. tookepublicans and trump 35% american corporate rate currently down to 21%, which makes us competitive with europe. ireland is at 12.5%. 21% is still high. we are below china and germany and france. response fromet a brad who texted. why do we have great economic growth, above 3%, during the clinton terms, after he raised taxes and increased safety regulations? guest: if you look at the growth in the eight years clinton was president, the first two years, not much growth. tax increased. won thethe republicans house and senate, they would mean there would be no regulatory programs and no tax increases.

that is when the stock market shot up and republicans passed a cut in the capital gains tax, 28% to 20% and the president had to sign. that gave a lot of growth. the republicans three times past welfare reform. the first two times, it was vetoed by clinton. the third time, he embraced it. it was the big success of his prid presidency. trying to help low income people, we had states trying to handle it and we learned what works and what doesn't work better. we had a strong economy when the republicans had the house and senate and they dropped clinton's planned spending by $200 billion per year. he had planned to spend every penny of the tax increase. republican said, no, we are not jumping that up. as revenue came in, the capital gains tax, spending did not jump, as the president had planned in all his budgets --

these are recovered budget numbers -- we actually went into a surplus as a result. the current administration -- the clinton administration is an example where taxes are not very helpful. rating and spending is extremely helpful -- raining in spending -- reigning in spending is extremely hopeful. caller: good morning c-span. show aas been on your number of times. administration left the cdc intact and they were able to handle ebola and the other pandemics that came around. when the republicans and donald trump came in, not only did he fold that organization and molded into another, he also cut the research grants. c-spanhas had people on

saying the trump administration has cut research. what you're saying is totally incorrect. these tax cuts donald trump has done has exploded our deficit. i notice we never talk about deficit problems with republicans in office but they explode the deficit like you cannot believe. i hate to say this to you, also, you talk about clinton. clinton closed a lot of the military bases which freed up a lot of capital and that is the reason we had a great economy under bill clinton. like i said, grover belongs in jail. host: we will let you go. , well, it issponse problematic when someone gets a little bit carried away. , he did notes are

rebut anything i said. saidoint is when the cdc they could only do the testing, their monopoly and assertion of power, and no one else could participate in getting this done, lost us a bunch of time. the fda having rules making it difficult to come up with new drugs, expensive and take too long, has been a problem for quite some time. there was a tremendous step forward when 40 states past the right to try law. if you have a drug the fda says is safe but they want to spend another several years deciding if it is effective, they are not going to let you buy it, unless they say it is effective, the state said, you know what, if people have a terminal disease and their child is dying and the product is safe and is not -- we are not willing to wait for

years and watch the child die while you decide if it is effective or not. we will handle that. legalized basically medical care for the terminally ill that is safe but not yet approved by the fda fully. that law was taken to washington and congress enacted it. it is the law of the land. the fda fought it all the way through. gettinge slowing down medicines to people because they wanted to control the bureaucracy on that. they got slapped down by people who lost children that were told they could not use drugs. these are drugs they have already said are safe. but we want to check and see if it is effective. there has been -- this was signed by president trump, very

bipartisan, past in blue states, red states, california vetoed it at first but when they realize what they had done, they passed it and made it the law of the land in california as well -- there are real steps forward we have had with getting the government out of the way and allowing more and better drugs, quicker and less expensively. host: stephen, independent, aurora, illinois. caller: good morning. to see grover on your show, americans for tax reform, is just laughable. americans for tax reform, grover norquist, nothing more than his attempts to continue to feed the billionaire elites in this country entitled to what they think is complete control over the tax structure of america. reaganomielieves in

cs, trickle-down economics, the largest fraudulent legislation ever passed in this country, the transfer of 60 trillion dollars dp, and wealth. if you are an american for tax havem, why for 20 years you had every gop legislator sign an edict when they start office to never raise taxes on the rich? please answer that for all of america. guest: ok, couple things. one, let me start with the facts. 1986,ans for tax reform, in order to pass the tax reform act that reagan put forward with bipartisan support, which reduced our marginal tax rates and helped give us a strong seven year economic growth, which did not end until bush

raised taxes and threw away a perfectly good presidency, we created the taxpayer protection pledge, which people can sign as a promise to the american people they would vote against any effort to raise taxes. that allowed people to trust them when the politicians went into the smoke-filled rooms to make the final deals on the '86 tax reform bill, it would not morph into an income tax hike. that became so popular that in 1994, 95% of all republicans running in the house and senate made the commitment to the american people not to raise taxes, period. the guy said just on rich people but he missed speaks. misspeaks. won theult, republicans

house and senate in 1994. with, we are not going to raise taxes, we will reform government to make it cost less and live within your means, that is a winning political message and certainly a winning economic message. we saw the growth from the trunk tax cuts. recoverye weakest because of the way obama handled it, much weaker than all the other recoveries going back to the great depression. spending more money does not stimulate the economy. changing the incentives for people to invest more. the challenge we have his biden is promising to eliminate the tax cuts and that means for a family of 4, median income, $2000 per year tax increase, every year forward. single-parent, one child, median

income, $41,000, $1300 tax increase. biden is saying to the middle income person, single-parent, one child, raise your taxes $1300, to a couple with two children, raise your taxes $2000. he has reiterated the other day, he wants to takes the capital gains tax to 40%, to double. that is not just for rich people. the caller and some people like to say, it is just rich people. he said on every single american. making it clear, lower income 2019, everyber 23, single solitary person, capital gains are going to, they will pay 40% on capital gains tax. taking a corporate rate up higher than china's competitors will take us back to the day during obama when american companies were purchased by

people overseas or moved overseas because taxes were so much higher on the margin than other countries have. burger king was bought by a canadian company. same company, worth more as a canadian company them an american company because of our policies when biden and obama were president. look at your taxes when you fill them out on july 15. to 3, 4 years ago and see how they have gone down. it is particularly important. we saw the job creation that came, twice. the job creation, the increase in the value of your 401(k) or ira, 81 million americans have a 401(k) or ira and that is their life savings. 65.e are under people of working age, life

savings in a 401(k) or ira, that savings increased as a result of lower taxes on the entire economy, less regulation, more growth. people's retirement is more secure. it went down during covid. it never went as low during covid as it was when obama and biden were running things. theireconomic policies -- economic policies were comparable to the worst of covid. pension is, ira, strengthened. biden says he will take that away. host: americans for tax reform, grover norquist, we appreciate you being with us this morning. guest: good to be with you. host: we will open up the lines to hear from you and go back to the conversation on the supreme court ruling on the president's taxes, the cases it ruled on yesterday.

(202)-748-8000 for democrats, (202)-748-8001 for republicans, (202)-748-8002 for independents. ♪ future is in our hands. the bestd gentlemen, is yet to come. [applause] >> president trump is hosting a rally in portsmouth, new hampshire. watch our live coverage saturday at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span, on demand at www.c-span.org or listen on the go with the free c-span radio app. q&a, anight on journalist talks about the history of voting in the u.s. and issues surrounding voting today in her book, "thank you for voting." >> it has have a massive impact

on voting rights. there isn't any advocate or attorney that does not see it as just a ground shaking impact. of course, voting laws discriminatory are still illegal , there is not federal oversight facing the history of discrimination, the stopgap where they need federal approval to make voting changes. >> watch sunday night at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span, q&a. >> washington journal continues. host: 9:00 eastern, your phone calls, the headline in usa today on the supreme court ruling win onay, "no clear trump taxes." focusing on whether the president can shield his taxes from scrutiny. democrats signal they might make

an election-year issue out of the court warning that presidents are not above the law. decisions allowed it allow democrats to claim a legal victory. in practical terms, the rulings meant the court battle over disclosure would continue, likely past the november election. while defeated on his claim he is above the law, trump is now beyond the law until after the november election, said the representative from texas. "he may not be able to outrun the law but he is out running the clock." our live coverage today on the c-span networks, getting underway in 10 minutes or so on eastern, house appropriations committee considering legislation for spending levels for

environmental programs, the interior department and legislative branch, live at 9:00 eastern. this morning, new jersey governor phil murphy sitting with the washington post to talk about the impact of coronavirus on his state, 11:00 eastern on c-span, followed at noon by the homeland security subcommittee, looking at coronavirus response and the impact on the nation, live on c-span. your calls and comments, (202)-748-8000 for democrats, (202)-748-8001 for republicans, (202)-748-8002 for independents. we mentioned the pandemic, the role of the cdc is written about in the washington post. trumpcing pressure from and allies, the latest clash

between the white house and top public health advisors erected wednesday when the president slammed the recommendation that schools planning to reopen should keep students six feet apart, among other steps to reduce infection risk, demanding schools hold classes this fall, calling this tough and expensive. "they are asking schools to do impractical things. i will be meeting with them." write that the vice president, the president said today "we just don't want the guidance to be too tough. that is the reason next week the cdc will be issuing a new set of tools. analysts say the deepening divide is undermining the authority of one of the world public health agencies which previously led fights against malaria, smallpox and hiv-aids amid the worst public health

crisis in a century. the cdc has in recent months altered or rescinded recommendations on topics including wearing masks and safely reopening restaurants and houses of worship as a result of conflict with top officials." let's go to calls on the supreme court rulings yesterday. patrick, exeter, california, republican. caller: i don't think the american people care to see the tax records of a billionaire that goes into public service. i think what the american people need to see is the tax records of public servants who become multimillionaires while they are in office. let's look at the tax records of obama and clinton. $166 million?get how did clinton foundation and up billionaires? up billionaires?

thank you. host: sparks, nevada, jessica, good morning. caller: thank you c-span. a couple things real quick. first of all, he was without guilt through the first, the president. whoever has never cheated on a spouse? hen it comes to tax returns, said he would comply, even the monument speech at mount times,e, he reiterated 4 no one is above the law. that includes, as he was indicating, no one including himself. sometimes we are a little too literal on what the president is saying, number one, i know we are and number two, i am a

registered democrat, i must say, in defense of the common person, he who is without guilt throws the first stone. we know there is an issue. they will take care of it. he will definitely produce his returns. he is not above the law. remember, even the president sets out. he is not above the law. -- said so. he is not above the law. the president's approval rating is at an all-time low, including the handling of the pandemic. a substantial majority of americans disapprove of his response of widespread racial unrest. the abc news released today a pole reporting 67% disapprove of the way he is handling the response to coronavirus while only 33% approve. rosebud, missouri, clyde,

independent, welcome. caller: yes. mistakes.urt made big taxes -- or trump's trump's taxes are no one's business. as long as we keep the irs happy, ain't nobody else's business. host: james, san diego, republican. caller: good morning. the host has misrepresented the supreme court decisions, number jury is new york grand in a criminal issue and wants taxes for 10 years to find out how much hush money was paid find out how much hush money was paid. -- based on cohen, who has lied under oath.

that is why he is in jail. if you represent the issues correctly, it is not his taxes that are the issue. it is why they are being sought after. that is what the supreme court said. for 10 years, those tax returns. the house of representatives wants to go back and look and see what is going on as far as -- [indiscernible] host: thanks, james. morgan, reading, pennsylvania, democrats line. caller: good morning. mi and the twilight zone? -- am i in the twilight zone? every president has showed their taxes. trump is not held accountable like any other president is bs.

he has to show his taxes like everybody else. i have never seen such hypocrisy in my life. thank you for c-span. host: the opinion writers of the wall street journal, the lead editorial "a bad day for the presidency, the high courts open the gates for congress and prosecutors." they write that it appeared they were trying to split the baby but forget about mr. trump. the real important rulings is that the supreme court has weakened the presidency by opening the gates to harassment by congress and local prosecutors. the justices remanded to the lower courts to reconsider based on new guidelines laid out by the majority opinions. willmeans mr. trump probably have to turn over his tax returns before the november election.

"historically, disputes over congressional demands for presidential documents have not ended up in court. instead, they have been hashed out in the hurly-burly give-and-take political process between the legislative and executive." line.t, gene, democrats caller: hi. agree with to say i the supreme court decisions. should have more leeway being able to get records from president trump. i consider him an enemy of the state, really. deceives man who lies, his followers, manipulates them and who is willing to put them in harm's way.

hashandling of the pandemic been abominable. things toe so many try to bend the law to his vantage. -- advantage. you have a caller earlier saying how everyone has done things, you know, that are wrong. he continually does them. he did them before he was elected, asking russia to hack into hillary's emails, when they passed, the house passed that hadth care bill, 2017, he house members over for beer and later said it was a mean bill. helsinki he said he believed him over our intelligence agencies. an enemy of the united states.

he has tried to use the law to cover himself. men" heie, "a few good cannot handle the truth. host: the president tweeting about the upcoming election this morning. fraud, peoplet are seeing how bad, dishonest and slow it is. election results could be delayed for months. 1% not even counted. ridiculous. just a formula for reading and election. absentee ballots are fine because you have to go through a precise process. trump"sident knowr: i would like to what crime he is being accused of? point, since it is not

required by law to show your income taxes, why doesn't congress do their job and change chris.: appreciate that, morehead. we will talk about campaign 2020 coming up next. tiffany cross will be talking about her new book, "say it louder! black voters, white narratives, and saving our democracy." as "washingtonad journal" continues. ♪ book tv has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up this weekend, sunday the:00 p.m. eastern, nash desousa talks about the new face of socialism in the u.s. and if it is part of our political culture in his book "the united states of socialism."

he interviewed by benjamin powell. 10:00 p.m. eastern, dr. ezekiel discusses his book, "which country has the world's best health care." book tv on c-span2 this weekend. ♪ presidents, available now in paperback and e-book. presents biographies of every president, organized by the ranking by noted historians from best to worst. and futures perspectives into the lives of our nation's chief executives and leadership styles. visit our website, c-span.org /thepresidents. order your copy today wherever books and e-books are sold.

"washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by tiffany cross, author, commentator, and cofounder of the desk and the managing editor of the beat in d.c., and author of the book, "say it louder! black voters, white narratives, and saving our democracy." welcome to "washington journal." guest: great to be with you this morning. host: tell us about your new book. what is it about? in media anded politics for almost 20 years now. feel free to gasp. i have been in this space for two decades. what i discovered in my time and working in different capacities at cnn, as a field producer and executive producer running the d.c. bureau is black voters have an inordinate amount of power, as does the media.

sometimes these powerful entities are running parallel, but frequently they are running contrary. recently every political conversation we had in the media has been about why people. as the demographics change and we are in a cultural shift i wanted to write something that highlighted the unique black experience in the unique black patriotism that exists in this country. i was writing this before ahmaud arbery, before george floyd, before beyond the taylor. -- breonna taylor. feministmodern-day movement to the unrest we are seeing in the streets. black peoplecommon have been historically brutalized in this country and how it continues today. at any moment this book could have been relevant to what was happening, whether the media covered it or not. putting this body of work out there i have gotten a lot of

whoespondence from readers consumed it to do not work in media or politics but found it relatable and relevant to their experience. i want to be clear, while the book was written -- i love letters. the super and patriots we are. this is not a book exclusively for black people. we are in a moment whether it is a lot of intellectual curiosity about the black experience. i think this book is something that can help walk people through and disrupt some of the false narratives people have believed for a long time. host: the subtitle of your book, "white narrative." give us your experience of the white narratives the media is playing that misses the mark in terms of what is going on with black voters, the black community. guest: i will give you two examples. 2016. after 2016, the media take away

was black voters did not show up. hence we have donald trump as president. said nothing of the fact that the gop-led voter suppression, that for election interference that targeted black voters, and black voters did show up. i break down the data. in detroit, michigan, the largest number of african-americans, 75,000 people have their votes for president completely discounted. because of the huge black population, i will assume the majority did not vote for donald trump. counted, votes been hillary clinton would have carried the state and thus won the presidency. the data does not add up. another thing i find in media is when the media goes to talk to voters of the heartland and they go to all these diners in iowa and new hampshire were no black

or brown people eat, it gives the impression this is how voters feel. this is what the voters are thinking. quite frankly it is out of step and is becoming increasingly an acronym stick as the -- anachronistic as the landscape changes. going to golden corral in birmingham, they would be people that reflect a strongly powerful democracy. you go to ohio, a denny's or a state, do as swing they not reflect of the voting landscape thanks? hearill read or non-college-educated white women feel this way, but when you get to voters of color, it is the black vote. we don't get the benefit of these colloquial terms. we are never considered soccer moms or nascar dads even though

we have a very diverse experience. we go differently. the term white economic anxiety is something the media termed in this is what helped get donald trump elected. i break down the data in my book but that is all. do we not think black people take their economic exide he into the voting booth with them? -- anxiety and the voting booth with them? the media is run by a very non-diverse landscape. mostly white males overrepresented in newsrooms. i write this book to the lens of a black voter. the same can be applied from the latin community, asian, pacific islanders, native americans. they have shaped fellow races in north dakota in different areas of the country they have been the deciding vote. as long as the landscape caters to a viewer that is over 60 and

largely white men, they have to know those viewers are not -- we have to force this landscape to be more inclusive in its coverage or they will lose and make the voting electorate a lot less intellectually curious. host: tiffany cross is our guest. the is "say it louder! black voters, white narratives, and saving our democracy." we welcome your calls and questions. (202) 748-8000 free democrats. -- for democrats. (202) 748-8001, republicans. independents and others, (202) 748-8002. i heard you use the term patriot or patriotism. is this an area where the white narrative, media or otherwise, gets it wrong in terms of black votes? guest: yeah, i think on a significant level. we have seen multiple instances of donald trump exercising behavior that is traitorous and

not very patriotic. when you look at historically by black people have been through in this country, what does it say that black voters can be bigger patriots than those who helped elect a traitor to the highest office of the land? i know there are a lot of trump supporters watching. i would encourage those people have a little bit of intellectual curiosity. what you read and what you consume outside of propaganda, outside of fox news tv. read a newspaper cover to cover everyday. something that does not serve as an echo chamber to your own thoughts. the facts cannot be defeated -- disputed. there are policies he has enacted that have been harmful to the military. he made it easier for armed forces to be victims of predatory lending. when you look at his relationship with the foreign reasonable people

should have questions about this. those who claim to love this country but still love someone who does not serve this country, i have to question their patriotism. the people who were the majority of this country. because ofs country the promise of what she could be. buying into these false narratives that america was built on peace and prosperity. it was built on the backs of the kidnapped and enslaved. america was not built on peace and prosperity, not on equality. he was taken with blood and fury. sometimes there is a disconnect with people who do not understand why are patriotism may look different. thus people don't necessarily know their history, the brutality, the wealth that black people created for this country. the cotton industry was a powerful industry. sugar. the power of industry. the steel industry.

black people were never paid for that work. never probably acknowledged for that work. win andople around us then the narrative becomes donald trump kim on the scene and said you were losing because those people are winning is not but demonstrably false plays continuous racial hostility this country has always been plagued by. host: i want to go back to your comment, the issue of newsroom diversity. you mentioned it a moment ago. you write about it in your book. in may 2017, trump tweeted there might be recordings of his private conversations with former fbi director james comey, whom he had just fired. it was a clear attempt to caution, he to lead to the press because mainstream outlets were in a tizzy over if you recorded conversations. that same day jeff sessions rescinded an obama era rule telling federal prosecutors to avoid charges for low-level drug

offenders that could only -- that could trigger lengthy mandatory minimums. just like that mandatory minimums were back. where was the breaking news banner for this devastating policy that would impact black and brown people? i don't recall any network giving it coverage. newsroom diversity literally impacts democracy." guest: i think that is a great example. class of the belly of washington, d.c. sometimes gets talking to and about each other. this impacted black and brown people and was completely ignored. the only place you heard about it was on msnbc. i wrote about it. at the time i had a news platform. it was not this big sweeping story. you are seeing the same thing happening with voter suppression. of people headlines waiting along lines for hours in

the rain, this is nothing new for black voters. it has been a black communities. polling stations are frequently shut down. not become a story until it started impacting white people, when donald trump talked ballots,ling mail-in which he himself uses, then it's a story. -- in 2018,port was leading up to the midterm election, across all three major networks there were less than 10 stories on voter suppression. it does not overly impact white people. as long as the media landscape feeds into a shrinking demographic and ignores the growing demographic of the country it will and does have a direct impact on our democracy and no one should want that. there is space for everyone to be inclusive. -- there needs to be more diverse editorial

decision-making power. that is what i am driving at in this book. if you don't work in media or politics, it does warrant and inspire an intellectual exchange about the state of where we are in the country and how we got here. int: we go first to al watertown, tennessee on the independent line. you are on with tiffany cross. caller: thank you for taking my call. let's just say -- i agree with your point. the black vote has been determinative in national elections. if you look back 50 years, what power you have wasted. look at your horrible schools, were demolished families. let's fast forward 10 years. black votes will not be determinative anymore. the hispanic votes will be determinative in the black will not matter as much. if you look at the history of what you have voted for and the results that have happened, it

has been a total waste and a very sad thing. the hispanic vote will be the number one. the black birthrate is going down. hispanics are going down. whites are flat. you talk about data. that is the fact and that is the future. host: are you referring to in general black support for democrats? caller: absolutely. they have a 95% to 99% history of voting for democrats. host: we will hear from our guest. guest: i will not dignify any ignorant comments about horrible schools. -- it to give my dignity will not give my dignity to ill-informed people. 2020, therst time in latin vote surpassed the black vote in terms of eligible voters. not registered voters. the black vote remains the biggest voting block in terms of people of color. something the media should focus y the latin

community is not registering at a faster rate. they are often not in conversations. we have to make the electorate and the media landscape more diverse to make people feel included. democracy says everyone has a voice, even people who call in and make ignorant comments. there vote counts as much is mine and that should frighten people. that should frighten people into making sure their voices are heard at the ballot box. host: cornelius in alexandria, louisiana. caller: good morning. c-span, i have an idea for you. do a thing on federal parole. that's an idea for you, c-span. thank you for taking my call. ms. tiffany cross, god bless you, baby. i'm african-american but ever republican. martin luther king junior and senior were republicans. those people that killed black folks after the civil war on, i just can't explain why blacks

joined the democratic party. we were lynched by them. the klan was started in the democratic party. i just don't understand. i was a democrat for a long time. i am 60 years old. i win resegregation and integration. i have been on both sides of that. said, i first caller said, iderstand, like i am pro-life, pro-god, pro-gun and stuff like that. i don't believe in abortion. god says we are not to kill. host: we will let you go. tiffany cross? guest: everything you said is factually inaccurate. drop a like for you to picture to confirm your african-american. martin luther king was not a republican. i go through specific policies

and how the parties actually split. you can see how powerful republican policies have been to the black community. host: r mckim, alabama. olivia on the democrats line. caller: good morning, tiffany. i love you. i love to see you on saturday and sunday mornings. keep doing what you are doing. let me say this. we had two ignorant callers calling in. stop being ignorant. you have to open your intellectual mind. you have to really search your heart. the only way racism is going to be defeated in america is in your heart. heart. judge her i'm sick of that. comparing the democratic party 2000's.

american,,e, african lgbtq. i'm from alabama. if we can have civil rights in birmingham, alabama, we can have them anywhere. this is the heartbeat of racism. i want to make my point this morning. some people come on here and talk and talk. look at what these republicans have done to your people. they have the most outdated hospitals. ? 10, 20, 30 miles to go to a hospital. we don't have hospitals to go to in an emergency. host: i will let you go. appreciate your call.

tiffany cross? guest: i thank the caller for her warm thoughts. even if people disagree with certain political points, i hope people can dig deep and find a modicum of intellectual curiosity to at least learn a little bit about the country they purport to love so much. host: in your book you write that many candidates, particularly at the federal level, have a bad habit of talking about black people but few have engaged in meaningful discourse. since the media landscape centers on clinical conversations around the needs and desires of white people there was a lack of understanding about how to engage black voters. this tale and dated efforts to appeal to the constituency included an obligatory stop of the campaign trails to break bread with al sharpton in harlem, visit churches, sit with pastors in south carolina, and meet with small groups of

ts, and the mandatory program for declaration -- pro preparations arationsion -- pre-rep declaration." guest: there is this effort to appeal to swing voters. i have my doubts those people exist. i think early on and the democratic process we saw a lot of candidates saying i can win trump voters and in red states. hey, you are running as a democrat. talk about how you can win some blue states. there is a disproportionate focus on folks who have not really elevated the democratic party. the democratic party has not won the majority of white votes since 1964. the last time, i think it was

1976, the voting electorate was 89% white. that changed drastically. as long as people operate from yesteryear you will see the erosion of democracy. you will see on intellectual voices elevated over people who do focus on policy. you saw that after trump got elected. this was this desire, a false take away that we did not pay enough attention to these voices. imagine the slap in the face that was to the communities of color. let's pay more attention to the racists. you have panels of trump supporters attempting to talk policy and did not understand a lot of what was happening on the global stage. that's ok because it's on both sides of the divide. a lot of people don't understand the complex with the government functions. we have to at least acknowledge a lot of what people saw rooted in racism, xenophobia, misogyny.

you navigate a space to make the electorate more informed and you have to talk to different constituency groups. 2008the obama voters in and 2012. i don't recall seeing panels of black voters being asked to break down their story, what they did before obama the way you saw with trump voters. as long as people are not people on thethe street screaming black lives matter, black people in the executive office, black enterprise, as long as they are overlooked the black voter has the leapfrog over the media landscape and over the political landscape to make the voices and concerns heard. that does have a direct impact that our democracy as we are seeing right now. host: in the 2020 race are you supporting joe biden? where would you rate the importance of him naming an

african-american, particularly a woman, a black woman as his running mate? guest: i always said i was support the democratic nominee. i think any rational adult would do it at this point. i'm very concerned about the direction this country is going in. we are clearly on the precipice of something. we will have to see what november brings. yes. i pinned an op-ed with some of my colleagues. it said we do believe that joe biden should select a black woman as his running mate. . i want to be -- i want to be clear. are you to t

adopt an agenda that faces issues that black people face? a lot of issues on the issues that poor white people face and other communities of color face. disenfranchised communities could unite and make this a more equal country. hooley and castro has an amazing ian castro had an amazing platform. elizabeth warren addressed a lot of the issues in the black community. i would say in the time where obama's presidency was the floor, and of the ceiling for a lot of the younger voters coming into the electorate now. in this moment we are reimagining america they are visiting the impossible -- envisioning impossible. impossible.ng the it would just make sense. we are fooling ourselves if we think it is a choice between joe

biden and donald trump. this is joe biden versus staying home. having a historic candidate immediately ready to take office, he will be the oldest president to enter office at 78, and he will take someone to excite a voting base that is largely ignored. host: let's go to scott in thomasville, georgia on the republican like. caller: good morning. i like some of the things you were saying. i disagree on some of your thoughts. one thing i would like to point like any other human thought, is an individual thing. it is in our hearts, as the prior caller said. i don't believe government, especially from the federal level, can remedy that problem. it has to come from the individual.

we are trying that in our town and trying to engage. we are trying to get along with each other. the way to do that is to do things together. not make some policy where i have to give away something and then i still going to my beach house by myself. the idea of connecting with people. to learn through education, the churches. that is not coming from the government. government is not the answer and is part of the problem because it stirs up the vitriol. when i'm talking to people i have to say, do you mind me talking to you? as a white man, age 55, where i am called names like white supremacist, redneck, but i have to approach people almost apology would -- apologetically for being who i am. i will do it because i want to bridge the gap. i want to connect with people but i will still be a republican. i will support people in my community. host: thanks, scott.

guest: i would say as a white you feel uncomfortable because people make certain assumptions about you imagine how blackman feel when those assumptions can cost them their lives. we do need to make an effort to get along. we all have to share this space and we are moving into a place for people of color comprise the majority of the population, as soon as 2044. the government is part of the problem. the government does have to be a part of the solution. when we talk about systemic racism, the take away for some people is that everyone is racist. we are saying the system is a part of the problem that -- differentarage outcomes are people of color. the system is built on white supremacy and it has to be taken apart with unity in mind, with equality in mind.

willnnot just trust people spend time together and have sunday dinner and think it will be ok. as long as black and brown people are ensnared in the criminal justice system, as long as black and brown bodies are being shot dead in the streets, why people are rolling up on black people and asking them why they are here. as long as black and brown people are overlooked for opportunity, as long as the wealth gap continues to get wider between black and white families. i encourage you to not look at life or your myopic lens and your view of your lifetime, but look at it through people who have tried to navigate this space despite oppression. what it takes for some people to get to a place in life that is different. the path is different for communities of color. perhaps because you have not

lived that it is challenging for you to understand. why don't you buy my book and take a read and look at some of the history and the ways black people have sacrificed for this country and still continue to be oppressed. just because you don't experience it does not mean it does not exist. host: de soto, texas. anna. discussi want to something with the gentleman that talked about the democrats. black people -- i'm 72 years old. i went through jim crow segregation, poll tax receipt, all of that. what he does not get is the democratic party was the dixiecrat. -- dixiecrats. after the republican party helped pass the civil rights bill, the dixiecrats were enraged. they took over the republican party. what you have in a republican

party is you have the old dixiecrats that are over there. people have to understand their history. they don't know it. when people talk about poor letident obama did not do, me tell you something -- what president obama did not do, the dow jones was at 6400 when he took over. when he left it was at 19,000. he created more jobs than anyone. my grandson, a college graduate and so was his wife, both working other masters degree, he is a black policeman. the reason he became a black policeman is because of my nephew he was killed in iraq and saved a lot of lives and who is a goldstar recipient. they don't mention black people and young black people that are goldstar recipient. could fight in iraq

.nd save lives, his goal was -- was to save lives here. when every policeman and america is not the policeman in minnesota. host: tiffany cross? write a lot about what she talked about. when the republican and democratic party shifted and the other part of the last century. i also write about the black soldiers who lined up to join the army during world war i when the u.s. realized their standing army of 126,000 men would not be enough. black soldiers lined up to help defeat germany. when they did that they were treated horribly in the army. they were spat upon. they were victims of racial hostility. these black soldiers could not sleep inside the warm barracks. they were left to sleep in tents.

they went for months without having a change of clothes. the wightman they were serving --ngside -- the right men the white men they were serving alongside were incredibly disrespectful. when they got back to the united states in 1919, how do you think americans welcomed these black patriots that sacrificed and shed blood for this country? was it with open arms and a salute and a thank you for your service? america responded by beating them, lynching them, shooting them, burning them. they were so enraged these black men had the audacity to wear the uniform. they would have to salute if they claimed to love this country. they were so married to the white supremacy they would rather cause harm to the brethren, their countrymen vented their look at them as their fellow americans. when i say there is a unique black patriotism, these are the

things i'm referencing. i would put money on hammy people at these maga rallies know that history. have any people that are cheering on a man that has been disrespectful to goldstar families, said the most ridiculous and heinous things --ut american heroes, people the republican party claimed to love john mccain. these people cheer on a president who disrespected him and continues to disrespect so many aspects of the core principles of this democracy. continue long as we this dumbing down of the american electorate we will all suffer. we will all get hurt behind it. you have people willing to show provea maga rally just to in committed they are this cultlike following tway white supremacist.

not havecallers may that historica backed up. maybe they will at least read the book and learn something new today. i think italy benefits america on the all are at least coming at this from an informed point of view. host: the book is "say it louder! black voters, white narratives, and saving our democracy." our guest is tiffany cross. joining us until 10:00 each and this morning. democrats.000 for (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents and others, (202) 748-8002. you touched on some voting issues in the 2016 election. president trump tweeting this morning about his concerns over mail-in ballot fraud. you, sue in new jersey says, good morning.

can you explain again how saudi 5000 votes were not counted -- how 75,000 votes were not counted? you mentioned this in terms of the 2016 election. guest: i write extensively about it. chapter five. i will say the gop ran the state legislature in michigan. they defunded a lot of the voting procedures. there were 75,000 ballots that for whatever reason there down the votees counted but for president did not count. jill stein sued to have the results reviewed. this is when the story escalated. if you consider if 75,000 people in any other capacity had anything happen to them, their data was stolen at target, they have their flights grounded,

this would be huge breaking news. at this time it was not breaking news because the media was too busy unpacking white economic anxiety and chasing around donald trump's tweets. i don't to get too much in the weeds but i do in my book and break down exactly how white supremacy erodes this democracy. how the media ignoring the black experience erodes this democracy. i encourage you to read the book because this is not the only agreed to dismiss step this democracy has made when it comes to black voters. -- egregiust missed ous misstep this democracy has made when it comes to black voters. i hope you will buy the book and read it. i would love to hear your thoughts. you can email me at my website or tweet me.

drop a note, instagram. -- on my instagram. host: jacqueline up next. caller: tiffany, thank you for always thinking and using logic and sticking to the facts. i really appreciate that. too many to not. don't be deterred. i'm a proud obama democrat and i'm so proud of the leadership and how together they really pulled this country back on the precipice. people forget how big of a hole they dug us out of. it was phenomenal. so proud of it every day. as a black woman i am part of the demographic that is solidly democratic. have been my entire life. we'll continue to be because they are for really the character of america. black americans, black patriotism, to me we are patriots.

we built america and we built it for free. we built it for free. the contributions we have made to this country is well documented, even though a lot of it is coming out now with the hidden figures and people we did not know about. we touched every aspect of this country. we love america. meanwhile we have the politics and grievance of constant pity parties from the oval office and a demographic that is institutional and structured privilege. privilege. yet it is grievance after grievance after grievance. we have survived and thrived and we don't have any privilege. we do love america. we have our faith and tenacity and we are the strongest people on gods green earth. host: thanks for the call. tiffany cross, any comments? guest: i appreciate her comments. she made the point i have been trying to make that black patriotism is certainly unique

in this space and time. i am happy the country is at time verythe first curious about it. experience.g the i think despite some of the collars you have had on all callers, ilers -- think the bulk of the american people have a desire to have some level of understanding and create a better landscape. host: many people are calling this moment after the george floyd clearly -- killing a reckoning. why do you think it is happening now? so many incidents in the recent past. the racist slaughter at the mother manual church. the many incidents of police

brutality that have been caught on video. the george floyd killing in particular pushed it over the edge? guest: iguest: think there was a convergence of a lot of issues. i think covid-19 highlighted some of the longtime inequality that five people in other communities of color have experienced. i think there is a new, younger voter. a lot of young white people are just discovering their country. the process we go through when we are developing political opinions. this new voting electorate, the white voters were shocked that they lived in a country that allowed this. it doesn't take white allies to move this fight. this is nothing new to black people. this is nothing new to older white people. i find it disingenuous when someone over 30 or 40 or 50 says i did not know this was bad -- it was this bad.

you just chose to look away. we are here now. be a part of the solution if you were previously part of the problem. hello you may expect oppressed people to continue to be killed and shot and beaten and harassed and degraded and denied? i think there are some things people saw coming from donald trump. when i first started doing television and i would say donald trump is a bigot and white supremacist, that was controversial. everyone else has eventually come along. let black people be the first point of reference. we recognize it immediately. footageat i think the which we have seen in 2016 leading up to 2016, black tragedy decorating the television screens and people were upset then. kingw a 1991 the running

incident -- rodney king. we saw john lewis get his skull fractured. invited a movement then. at this moment it sparked a global movement. i think a part of that is because of technology and social anda and spreading the word activism that leads to actual policy change. it helped move this moment. i hope for the first time that people have developed some empathy. i don't know any decent human aings who could look at police officer casually kneeling on a man's neck for almost nine minutes. his hands were in his pockets, something.l when people have this rage and take that to the streets i stand with them. i understand it because how far

you get locking arms and singing "kumbaya"? what will it take for people to say we will not tolerate this anymore. we are making demands that our lives matter. we will not tolerate the harm coming to our children, our daughters, our sons, our brothers, our sisters. i am thrilled, this has been a diverse multicultural, multigenerational movement of people saying enough is enough. except for a tiny group of people who are a part of this following ia believe in the goodness of the people in this country and the majority wants these things and i'm proud of the people who have taken to the streets to fight. host: ralph from augusta, georgia. caller: good morning. my name is ralph.

a couple of points i went to bring up. i marched for the right to vote. i devote. hi -- i do vote. when republicans switch to democrats, that think i want to i escorted amber body home from vietnam, hey soldier -- a soldier for his burial. back toeft i had to go the bus terminal to get a ticket to go home. opportunity.qual i worked in the ig's office in the luke perry fielding complaints. a young lady said under proper leadership, guidance, and

counseling she could become a mature and productive soldier. i wanted to know why. then i was in trouble. the question i would like for ou to answer for me, white is -- why should a black man be concerned about russia's interference in our election when georgia we having all kinds of problems getting her votes counted? why is it this ratification of the votes has not taken place? thank you. i will read your book. host: thank you for your call. guest: i think we have to find space to be concerned about both. certainly russia continues to interfere with our election process. it has been confirmed since 2016 attempted to

interfere in the election process. we can't assume china will sit this one out this go around. there is foreign election interference that warrants attention. yes, we should talk about gop-led voter suppression. in georgia, you have brian kemp who is a suppressor of the vote. i have an entire chapter in there about the republican governor. has literally jailed people for trying to register voters. he literally jailed people for getting elected in a school board in clinton, georgia. i write about that happening. this is 2020 and the stories mostly went unreported and unheard. these are jim crow tactics that are being employed by this republican governor in georgia. to acknowledges that white women outpaced white

men in voting for brian kemp. we have to have tough conversations about why people are supporting people who are suppressing and oppressing people of color. if these are people that don't agree with that but you have people in your family who do or friends that do, it's incumbent upon you to address those people and confront those people. black people are held responsible for our community all the time and why people have to be held responsible for members of their community. host: our guest is a graduate of clark atlantic university. are you a georgia native? guest: i was born in ohio. i've moved to atlanta when i was 11 and moved to d.c. for 20 years now. host: looking at the election again, you write about black economic anxiety. given the history of this country, when it comes to the economics broken down by race,

ever wonder why the term black economic anxiety was never quite? black voters certainly take this into the voting booth. we have certainly impacted elections with measurable results. i have never seen any such phrase attached to our financial stress, even though that stress is everywhere. black economic anxiety is not limited to the rust belt over deep south or non-college-educated voters or single moms or coal miners, factory workers, farmers, cops or bikers. it transcends geography, education level, homeownership, marital status and occupation. the economic anxiety is both hereditary and airborne." what is the airborne part of that economic anxiety? -- because myough opportunities that awaited my mother were limited.

that impacted the opportunities that awaited me. if she was able to pursue a career path and build wealth, that would have given me a launching pad. that part is hereditary. the way white supremacy ripples through generations and depresses the economic opportunities is one thing. incidentsne part is that happened that impacted our money. you look at the great recession. black people were overwhelmingly impacted by that. it knocked out over 90% of the black wealth created in that time. despite all the odds you have leapfrogged over challenges, hurdled obstacles, but there is something that can come and knock your economic prosperity out of whack. covid-19 has done this for everybody. when white america catches a cold, black america catches the flu. it is the same with economics.

during the great depression it was horrible for everybody, but for black people it was devastatingly bad. unemployment was over 50% during the great depression. the social programs offered to everybody excluded black people. food kitchens excluded black people. we learned clearly that misery does not love company. now that we are in this time, even my own personal circumstances where i attempted to build businesses and platforms have been impacted by systems of white supremacy because i'm going into a place for there are mostly white men who are deciding what to find, what to grow, what to invest in. sometimes it can seem inescapable. running on a been treadmill at the speed of 8, 9,

10 at an incline and i'm out of breath but i don't have the opportunity to catch my breath. i have to keep running if i am to grasp what i want in life. while we are running on the incline, other people are sitting back telling, getting a ride to the finish line. feel isomic anxiety we hereditary and airborne. some levelwho have of success and can take care of our children and parents at the same time, our financial responsibilities are overbearing when it comes to student loan debt and the wealth gap and the pay gap between black women and white women. that are so many issues are like ankle weights. despite these things we fight, we win, we wake up and put one foot in front of the next. to have people dismiss our

journey and say i work hard, they should work hard. we cannot conflate race and class. but weere is classism, are impacted by both these things. i am personally exhausted from my own journey, which i write about in the book. i'm also exhausted from my brother and who -- rather been eren who have encountered a world that is denied them time and time again. host: stephen illinois says in my opinion, black patriotism has never been a question. the question is why america never felt black americans deserved to be treated as patriotic? any reaction to that? guest: that's a great question. something i write about in the book is when the internet rush agency, the people responsible for interfering with our electoral process, they sent spies over here to get a lay of

the land. these operatives from the internet rush agency spent too much of the country and went back. there take away was they treat black people really messed up over there. that should definitely be our in. when i was doing research for this and discover that, it was like they were here for two months and there take away was black people are oppressed. we should totally capitalize on that. if they can see that in two months, why is it so hard for people who have lived here to acknowledge that their entire lives? i do think like patriotism has been in question. i think there are misguided, ill-informed people who do not believe black people love this country. two did not believe black people can be patriots. to do those people have the work on their own and get informed.

america, because we bought into so many false narratives about who our founding fathers were, about what the confederacy meant, about every president that has occupied the white house. there are some people who think donald trump is the first white supremacist occupy the white house. you know how many devils black people had to vote for because they would cause the least harm to the community? things, confronting truths about this country and this history can be uncomfortable. host: let me see if we can get a call. this is albert calling from chicago. caller: good morning. you made a statement a while not ahis election is choice between biden and trump.

it is a choice between biden and stay home. i take issue with that. lived the last three years and witnessed his assault on the obama-holder criminal justice and policing reforms and witnessed him kidnapping -- trump won talking border- children at the and holding them indefinitely in detention and classifying them as unaccompanied minors, if you witnessed his assault and reproductive rights, transgender serving in the military, his assault across the board on any americans who were not white and did not vote for him, his ion is a promise of four more years of that. guest: i am not encouraging people to have that choice but

we have to acknowledge there are people who feel that way. i am keenly aware of the landscape that donald trump has created. i am not arguing that point, sir. my point is that our people who feel like no matter who i vote for, better what i do, my life will not change. there are people who never voted in their adult lives who voted for obama. we had not seen numbers like that since 1965. is despite am making the fact people feel that way we have to get them something to vote for. right now a lot of the voters are voting against trump, not necessarily for biden. i talked to black voters all the time. i host a radio show with rev. al sharpton on siriusxm. despite how you feel and how i feel, we have to acknowledge there are people in this american body politic you do not feel that anyone is equal to

them. they may not understand the role and the difference between state government, local government, and federal government. for those people, they are not excited by casting a ballot for this ticket. i'm not excusing that over encouraging that. that is a realistic landscape we face. given it is a candidate's responsibility to excite voters, for me as someone who works in media it is my responsibility to inform voters. i hope that excites them to vote. as a person who wants to see this country change, it is your responsibility to make sure your neighbors are voting. encourage your children and grandchildren. make sure everybody is going to the ballot box. i'm saying despite we may feel there are people that think staying home is not a big deal and it is. host: eddie in los angeles on the independent line. caller: good morning.

i think you are wonderful. i am so jealous of you because you get to talk about politics all day long. it is something i dream about. working-class, but what about the black working-class? this president is the prime example of white privilege. the senators that support him, how quiet they are about the military being shot. it is truly unbelievable that people can go one and support this man. he does not care about this country. he truly does not care about this country. i don't know why so many middle-class white people vote republican. they need health care and education and laws. does the republican party do for them? about the votes being

purged. talking about people's votes being purged. i am an african american male. i have an african american studies degree. one title i would add to everything else, i feel like i am an ambassador. host: we are going to let you go. final thoughts, tiffany cross? guest: i think the caller for his thoughts. i do write about the white working-class. the majority working-class will be people of color by 2032. the strike in michigan was a very diverse group of people on the frontline. this has been an amazing, robust discussion. i hope it continues. i hope people buy the book. i poured myself into it. the conversations may make people uncomfortable but i am comfortable making people

uncomfortable. the author our guest this morning, tiffany cross. we appreciate you stopping by and taking calls with our viewers. that will do it for this morning's version of "washington journal." we are back tomorrow morning, saturday morning, at 7:00 as usual. hope you have a great weekend. we will see you here tomorrow. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> a look now at some of our live coverage today on c-span. new jersey governor phil murphy sits down with the "washington post" to discuss the effect of the pandemic on his state. that begins at 11:00 eastern.

at noon, we will bring you a house homeland security subcommittee hearing into the national coronavirus response and the impact across the country. that will be live on c-span. you can also watch online at c-span.org or listen with the free c-span radio app. president trump: america's future is in our hands. and ladies and gentlemen, the best is yet to come. [cheers and applause] >> president trump is hosting a rally in portsmouth, new hampshire. watch our live campaign 2020 coverage live saturday at 8:00 eastern on c-span, on demand at c-span.org, or listen on the go with the free c-span radio app. >> ♪ >> the republican and democratic parties and the campaigns of president trump and joe biden are adjusting plans for next month's political conventions,

already reshaped by the coronavirus pandemic. the democrats will convene for a scaled-back convention in milwaukee starting august 17. the republicans begin their convention the following week, august 24, in charlotte, north carolina, before moving on to jacksonville, florida. the democratic and republican national conventions, live on c-span, beginning monday, august 17. watch anytime on c-span.org or listen live on the free c-span radio app. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> the arizona governor held a briefing on the state's response to the coronavirus pandemic after finding a 50% increase in cases in june. the governor discussed increasing testing. he stressed mask use and set all arizonans should take every attempt to stay home. due to a technical issue, a small portion of this event could not be shown.

governor ducey: they are on the front lines and they have our undying gratitude. i am also going to talk about some things we can do today that , help relieve the heavy burden they have at this moment. emphasize that you are safer at home at this time in arizona. we are going to see some evidence today that people have been listening to this message the last 10 days. i want to thank the press in advance. you helped us communicate that message. people are understanding it. i am going to ask you to continue to help amplify that message in the reporting around covid-19, that people are safer at home. and if they don'ha