the u.s. house and senate return on monday to resume legislative business following their state work period over the fourth of july holiday. the u.s. house considers the 2021 national defense authorization act. the senate convenes at 3 p.m. on the nomination of russell vought to be director of the office of management and budget. he has been serving in active capacity since january 2019. the senate limited debate and advanced his nomination on july 2 on a partyline vote of 47-44. at 5:30 p.m., the senate votes on confirmation of the senate vote confirmation. live coverage of the senate on c-span2. school financeek reporter darrell burnett joins us now with the conversation on schools reopening this fall. president trump has made it clear he wants schools to reopen

this fall and has gone so far to say last week he will cut off federal funding for schools that do not reopen. can he do that? guest: my understanding of that is no or it would be difficult for them to do that. mostiggest thing is that federal funding has already been sent out for the school year. the second thing is that congress controls the purse strings. they have created rules around exactly when money gets sent out, how much, and exactly what school districts need to do to receive that money. the last thing is that if congress decides to provide more bailout money for school districts, they would have to agree to give the strings to betsy devos to decide when and how to dole out money. one of the things i want to point out is federal money is

targeted toward low income schools. what betsy divorce is saying is devos.y divorce -- host: we talk about what is being proposed in the heroes act that are being pushed right now for future additional aid. act, theder the cares school district can get $13 billion which is really a drop in the bucket. was targeted -- they wanted it to spend it on last year's costs when they had to shutdowns close in march, purchasing laptops for kids, wi-fi, etc. the heroes act which has been proposed in the house, that would provide $60 billion for

schools. again, most education advocates are saying they would need around $200 billion to reopen schools. alexander whotor runs the senate education committee, he is talking about possibly providing $70 billion for schools. that money would be geared toward reopening costs such as ppe, transportation, etc. school districts need to pay their staff. ,he reopening costs might help but really what districts need is enough money to survive the school year. what i should really emphasize -- federal dollars are only 10% of funding. majority of districts rely on local and state aid and state aid has plummeted.

host: we showed it article last segment we were talking about school reopening. report, reopening means an additional $1.8 million in cost for the average school district. there are other numbers out there. can you dive into those numbers? guest: sure. i have talked to several administrators about some of the logistical challenges and financial challenges with reopening. the superintendents association 's estimate was for the district the size of 15,000 students and $2 million. they are talking about the hardware of schools. ppe and equipment, they were estimate and that masks cost one dollar each. but because there is a shortage aboutipment, masks cost

two dollars or three dollars now. i actually think that they might have underestimated how much it will cost. costs aree other big trying to reduce class sizes which you would actually have to hire more teachers and professionals to do. if you want to do social distancing three or six feet, you would have to go out with more facilities. you would have to take the kids to a local stadium or take them to the local convention center in order to conduct classes and that costs more money. i heard more recent estimates in which these numbers can really climb into the $2 million or $3 million. i spoke to a superintendent and he was saying that for a district with hundred thousand kids on masks alone, you would have to spend $10 million.

i think the big fear is that they might purchase that equipment and there will be an outbreak and now this equip it is sitting in a facility somewhere and they cannot use it and it would be a waste of tax dollars. host: daarel burnette, school finance or here. school financier. phone lines. parents can call in at (202) 748-8000. educators, (202) 748-8001. all others, (202) 748-8002. are talkingtte, you about potentially hiring more teachers and yet this was the headline for the story that you put out is this week, thousands of educators being laid off already due to covid-19 and more expected. guest: yeah. this is a thing that nobody is

talking about. districts are really on the cusp of a recession in which more than one quarter of their funding could evaporate. we are already seeing a handful of states, massachusetts, michigan, nevada, their legislature is talking about cutting a quarter of their thisng by $125 million school year which would lead to mass layoffs. we have not seen this historically. school districts are pushing against the economic headwinds. i have counted more than half of sc

-- we will start seeing state legislature, start cutting budgets and big chunks out of their budgets weeks before the school year starts. we will possibly see major layoffs, which can be traumatizing for a community. it can be academically destructive for students. host: what are they telling the teachers? are they saying these are temporary or permanent cuts? guest: they are telling them that if congress decides to give them extra money, they might be able to rehire them back. otherwise, you should try to find another job. host: taking your calls this morning. cameron is up first out of charlotte, michigan. a parent.

caller: good morning. i am a grandparent. i want to make the comment, listening to this young man talk about the billions, the school -- disparity in that small number with the trillions being given to the corporations. within the midst of this terrible, horrible social experiment, they want to send our children back to school without giving you folks enough money to do the job. i am pointing this out as a disparity. i am sure it is striking everybody else as being apparent. already thrown out $5 trillion. host: who else is pointing out the disparity? guest: i talked to the

superintendent in michigan last week about potential teacher layoffs and he decided to furlough himself this summer to avoid teacher layoffs. his reasoning was pretty interesting. rural college town in michigan. the school district is the third largest player in that town has a 30% unemployment rate. once school districts start length people off, this will have a pounding effect on the economy. we saw this during the last recession, it could spark another recession. one of the things a lot of people are not thinking about holistically the roles that schools have. about 3.5 million teachers.

in some cities -- cities, they are the largest employer. custodians,onals, administrators, afterschool care workers. there is a whole workforce around schools. there is a lot of focus on corporations and their survival. schools, they play an essential role in the economy. host: redford, michigan, a parent. kidsr: my great grand range from one-year-old to 39-year-old. asthma and various medical conditions going back to school. schools in michigan, a lot of them do not have air conditioning. the climate is hard for children to breathe.

-- half theed that parents do not understand it. i think children should stay at home right now until they get this under control. the first time i was on the show was talking about school facilities. the infrastructure of public crisis.-- there is a a long-running crisis. we've estimated a trillion dollars worth of maintenance costs. schools basically freeze upgrades to facilities during recessions. issues, mildew, etc., all that gets put on the back

water to pay salaries instead. one of the things i wanted to point out at this great-grandmother pointed out, schools have a difficult time -- school administrators have a stopping kids from kissing the hallways, fighting in the hallways. we talk about schools trying to keep kids six feet apart all day long. it is very, very difficult. arguments aof the lot of administrators have been making. secretary betsy devos and donald trump have taken on this mission to reopen schools. part of america's public school system is locally controlled. every town has a unique scenario. ,here are some towns in america

i was talking to former coworkers in memphis, they have people dying on a frequent basis. real.ar is very there are some communities in which they have brand-new schools, courtyards and kids can work there. take the kids outside. that is perfectly legit. k12 at minister's have been arguing that there should be a local -- administrators have been arguing that there should be a local decision. of 2018,ck in january not your first time on this program. we had you on about three years ago almost to the day today back in 2017 talking about teacher

evaluations. all of his appearances on this program are on the website. the search bar at the top of your page is your friend. york, a parent. good morning. caller: grandparent. is there anyway that the local suits custom -- school system can link up with online education? if you have to make at least 180 days in the classroom, can they link up? if you are in the sixth grade, you will get an eighth grade education. you could print out the information and send it in online. guest: school districts did do online education starting of march -- in march of last year.

there was a lot of frustration amongst teachers and ,, especially for the younger grades. higher ed has figured out online education. everything from not all students have access to wi-fi, not all students have access to laptop computers. not all teachers have access to wi-fi. we found teachers sitting outside of school trying to connect to school buildings wi-fi. hurdle.logistical this summer, a lot of schools had to purchase improved software for online learning and they are trying to rollout more

comprehensive online learning. as my colleagues reporting has shown, it is not easy. it is very difficult. there is a growing concern amongst k12 that in person learning, a teacher standing in front of a child, works best. it is interesting that betsy ago -- sixmonths weeks ago was touting online learning. and now she is demonizing it. which one is it? k12, it ishing in nuanced. there are some bright spots. potential areas of overall, it is nowhere close to as effective as

in person learning. printing outut materials. administratorso in madison, wisconsin. -- they do not have spent a million dollars printing out curriculum. they spent another million dollars delivering it to kids. they have to buy all the postage to put laptop computers on paper in the mail to parents. another logistical, expensive hurdle. host: you mentioned virtual learning and betsy devos and her comments a month ago versus recently. this was the president last week saying we have witnessed it on a

large-scale basis, virtual learning has proven to be terrible compared to on-campus learning. schools must be open in the fall. you talked about at the beginning that he cannot really take away funds from schools that have already been appropriated and distributed. what other carrots and sticks can the president and betsy devos use to get schools to reopen aside from the bully pulpit? guest: they have to work with congress. my colleague has talked to several experts about this. department is scrambling to figure out how to do this. it is very complicated once you powerso the legality the

the executive branch has over school funding. four years ago, the government passed the every student succeeds act. there was a broad consensus that the president and secretary of education should not have oversight over america's schools. it is interesting that betsy devos and donald trump have taken on this role of we are going to tell districts what they can and cannot do. beenast majority -- it has all about local control. to the point that district administrators have been crying for leadership. six month ago, when the coronavirus first began, the admin's traders asked -- the admin's traders asked donald

trump and betsy devos to tell them whether or not they should be open or closed. it was a locald decision. how things change. host: fort wayne, indiana, a teacher. caller: good morning. i would like to ask you a question about teacher pay. i am an adjunct instructor in my prospects for becoming full-time or getting dim. i want to see how you see that playing out in higher ed. does that proliferate through k12 as far as teacher pay? thank you. it is interesting that you called from indiana. there is an ongoing political crisis with the governor, legislature, teachers union. this is one of the things my

colleague have wrapped our brains -- wrapped our brains about because the political --entum behind teacher pay eight months ago, nine months ago, there was a huge movement. thousands of teachers decked in red. indianapolis, actually. a broad consensus amongst the general public that teachers were underpaid for what they do. teachers getting paid $26,000 a year. kindergarten, first, second grade teachers. the teachers who matter the most. now that these states are dealing with huge budget crisis, the first thing that will go is teacher pay.

all of the initiatives to raise teacher pay are out the door. we were tracking which states were and were not going to increase teacher pay and had concluded this would be the year in which states would finally fork over the hundreds of millions of dollars that it would cost to increase teacher pay. raise it $5,000 or $6,000. all of those initiatives are gone. i should point out that any district that does decide to handfulacher pay -- a of districts in florida. all of that money is coming out of the savings account. all that money will be gone next year. that means the layoffs will be twice as bad then they would have otherwise been because teacher pay takes about 80% of your budget. as this gentleman knows, every

year, teachers climb the ladder. bet year, they will have to paid 3000 or $4000 more than they were paid this year. i have not even talked about the pension crisis. ♪ >> ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states. ♪ [applause] pres. trump: thank you very much, everybody. what a nice crowd. it is beautiful. it might be hot but it is beautiful. we are here today to celebrate and expand our historic campaign to rescue american workers from