vets are able to respect each other and work together -- all of us are able to respect each other and work together. host: arturo vargas joins us from los angeles. "washington journal" continues. from tim phillips joins us greenville, north carolina. good morning to you, sir. can you remind folks about your organization? guest: americans for prosperity is a nationwide grassroots organization with staff and volunteers across the country. we focus on knocking down the barriers holding people back from living fulfilling lives. a lot of the time that is government policy, which is what we are talking about today. a lot of the times it is issues like poverty and addiction in communities as well. a lot of public policy as well. host: a little bit about your funding, if you might. are you directly affiliated with the coke brothers?

guest: yes, we are. passed away last year. yes, we have an affiliation and are proud of that affiliation. when it comes to affiliation, the coronavirus relief package, various price tags being thrown around by the senate and house side. you have some concern about what is being suggested? guest: we do. the congress has appropriated the president to sign into law trillions of dollars in spending already. much of that was needed, by the way. this is an unprecedented situation we are facing with the pandemic that has an economic toll that is unprecedented in our nations history. much of that was needed, it.ssary, and we support

at this point, it is difficult to justify another multi dollar spending bill, especially if it includes what the house version included in late spring which is trillions of dollars for bailing out states and localities that has nothing to do with the pandemic, but more to do with irresponsible spending and pension policies for many years. host: states will say in some cases because of school and testing costs, and other things related to covid, we need the fiscal help. you would fight against that? guest: it is important to know that they have received trillions of dollars already. several studies are out showing hundreds of billions of that dollars already appropriated are still in the pipeline, still unspent. it is important any legislation congress passes be timely so it can help right away. the targeted specifically to the impact of this pandemic and

resulting short-term economic difficulties. and also temporary. we should not now be looking at long-term entitlements and new programs, because we have to focus on the here and now. that is what we push for peace. weimportant -- that is what push for. it is important to know there are billions of dollars still available in the states and localities. , but they are asking for is not related to first responders , hospitals, or others. instead, it is for operating expenses that in many cases for many years they have been irresponsible in doing so. point. our focus at this there have been good things that the government has done. getting rid of a lot of regulation and redtape. they have done that in many locations to let health-care providers save lives. they have through the paycheck

protection program and other efforts that are targeted to small businesses, done good things as well. we just think it doesn't make sense to spend trillions more. host:host: the house comes in at 9:00 am so you can ask our guest questions until then. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. .ndependents, (202) 748-8002 if you want to text us you can do so at (202) 748-8003. one of the things the senate majority leader would like to see is a liability protection. is that something -- what would you think about that prospect being included in legislation? guest: it is important to get some kind of liability protection for schools, for mosques, synagogues, small mom-and-pop businesses that are trying to survive. an avalanche of lawsuits from personal injury lawyers are coming.

liability reform or protection is important to let these schools in these churches, mosques, synagogues, and businesses open and provide the services and their communities to individual americans. without that threat hanging over them that they are going to be relentlessly sued into bankruptcy. we need to get this economy going again. when need to help people get back to their normal lives. i am on the road a lot in south carolina, north carolina this week, and americans want their back. lives one thing holding them back from normal lives is the threat that so many churches and schools and small businesses have of being sued into bankruptcy and wiped pandemic-related lawsuits coming unless there is some kind of liability protection. several states

considering more stay-at-home orders or re-imposing the restrictions against businesses, would you advocate against that, for that, a cautionary approach, where would you stand? guest: we would urge government to be responsible but cautious. there isrtant to note, a human cost to shut downs as well. we have seen the studies. the rise in depression, suicides, drug overdoses. a lot of children who are struggling with those as well. hunger issues because schools are not in the way they have been before. it is important to note there is a cost in human terms to these full shutdowns as well. we are looking at states. a lot of folks are focusing on texas and florida, but the state with some of the fastest-growing infection rates is the state that has been shut down most

stringently for the longest time, certainly among the longest time, and that is california. there is no single approach that seems to be working far better than others. we would urge caution at the state level and think the administration has done the right thing by not having a one-size-fits-all policy on shutdowns or other measures from washington, d.c. what is happening in nebraska is york.ifferent than new what is happening in oregon is different than georgia. these states and localities know best what to do and how to protect citizens while getting the economy going. i think the administration deserves credit for not imposing a draconian, d.c.-based one-size-fits-all policy. we probably would have gotten wouldnk, coverage, but it

have been too heavy-handed. they have done a good job letting states and localities make those decisions. host: another coronavirus relief packages being considered. have you heard from the white house or senate republicans about this? have you had a chance to share your views? guest: we have. we have been speaking to the white house on a consistent basis, and a lot of senate republicans since they are the majority on that side. there is some disarray on the senate and white house side. there is no question about that. it is more important for them to get it right than try to rush something to meet a deadline they have set for speed it through too quickly. often you can do the wrong thing that can end up hurting the country and limiting our ability to get the economy going again while dealing with this pandemic. we have been in talks with them.

we have urged them to reject the house plan that has been called dead on arrival, the pelosi bill, the $3 trillion with a christmas tree list unrelated to the pandemic of ideological measures and spending. it had the bailouts for states and localities. for example, illinois, which has the most chronically underfunded pensions in the country, if not the worst, they would openly say we want the bailout money to shore up our pensions fund. that is not fair to states like wisconsin and indiana, close to illinois, who have bitten the bullet and funded their pension. that is not fair to them. we are glad that that is dead on arrival. that is important as a first step. let's be prudent. there is a lot of talks about education money. that is a vital concern. i had moms and dads yesterday talking to me about that in the

carolinas about their concern and worry. children,to get the in a responsible way, back in school. any education money, let's let it follow the families. families have tough decisions to make about what to do with their children. whether to go ahead and go along with public school plans being formulated, or to go with homeschooling or private options. this is a difficult time for parents. let's make sure any education funding follows the parents' wishes. either stipends or the ability with education accounts to let them make more of the decisions rather than washington throwing a bunch of money at public schools. host: we have calls lined up. the first on the democrats line, cincinnati, ohio. go ahead, tonya. caller: caller good morning. -- caller: good morning.

i feel mr. phillips is giving us talking points, and many of them don't make sense was that for instance, he says it's not fair for state that is in trouble to get more than another state. however, when the first money came out much of it went to businesses that had no business receiving that money. they were big businesses, and many of them are talking about having to pay it back. fair i guess is in the eye of the beholder. many things aren't fair. we are in the middle of a and whenin this world, we could have stopped it, the president refused to take the from the worlds health organization. then wound up and turned out tests that were not accurate and working. host: thank you. we will get a response. guest: you may be surprised to

hear that i completely agree idea thatn the bailing out industry-specific big dismisses is the wrong way to go. we think that is a bad idea, too. government help should not be cronyism where they pick out big winners and big losers based on their lobbyists or how much of a political contribution they make. i am with you on that. americans for prosperity is there as well. we want to see focus on the smaller businesses who don't have a big backup system in place. we have constantly said during this process, let's not reward specific industries that have the best lobbyists, the best connections. let's not have government picking winners and losers. we agree with that. aid should be specifically targeted to those struggling the most. often those are the smaller businesses. the mom and pop organizations

and 3, 5, 8, 10 employees, not these big corporate interests. we are with you there. it is important not to go that route again. a lot of industries have their hands out will stop washington, it is a feeding frenzy where lobbyists are wanting to get what they would call their fair share. it is not their fair share. there is a big lobbying frenzy going on now. we have seen coverage with folks getting big deals. that is wrong, and this is a terrible time when america is struggling with a pandemic we haven't seen since 1917, 18, 19, and economic crisis that is unprecedented. now is not the time for the swap feeding frenzy of lobbying and special interest money being doled out. carol, upblican line, next. caller: good morning. i have questions about all of

this. it seems like the people in the states that opened first are getting punished because they went to bars and beaches because they have been closed up for several months. all of a sudden those states had the big increase. florida, georgia, all those states. interview of aan guy in line in one of the testing centers who had been through three times to get himself tested. these numbers, there is no way of telling if these numbers are true or not. they are just numbers on tv. as theoof do we have american people that these numbers are true and all positive cases of corona. and all of these people who are positive may not have any symptoms, may not end up in the hospital. all this is political, it looks like, being drummed up to keep the president from being reelected. guest: it is interesting to

watch people go after states that pressed to reopen their economies, to try to get commerce going again, to try to get people their normal lives back. places like florida, georgia, texas they have been pummeled hard by some in the media and political world. it is important to know that, and i mentioned this earlier, california has had the opposite approach, an incredibly stringent lockdown that has been eased so slowly, they are spiking. their infection rate is spiking through the roof. some seems to be ideological games being played with the states that have worked to get folks back to normal. consistently, and i was in georgia a week ago doing door-to-door socially distanced work with one of our sister organizations, and what people want is their lives back.

they want to do it in a responsible, safe way, but it is easy for experts in washington, d.c. to opine about shutting things down and waiting it out, whether it is months were deep into 2021. those experts always seem to incomeeir jobs, an source. so many americans don't have that. they have been hurt by the shutdowns. the shutdowns were needed in some respect, no question, but now is the time to continue to look for ways to responsibly get people back to normal, get our lives back, and get this economy going again. host: lee, rockville, maryland, independent line. caller: good morning, enjoying the show. good morning. i would like to ask about the federal budget deficit. prior to the pandemic, prior to last winter, we were looking at

trillion dollar annual deficits as far as the eye could see. the republican party, the party of fiscal responsibility, was rolling over and accepting this. these deficit hawks mike mulvaney and ryan were just saying trillion dollar deficit? that's fine. that? you account for how do you account for the enormous budget deficits prior to the pandemic that the republican party was just acquiescing to? guest: the most consistent failure of both parties over the last 20 years, without doubt, has been in the area of the nding.t and overspe government overspending. if you want partisanship in washington give them a bloated bill and partisanship seems to come back around.

, that evenis right with an economy that was growing pretty darn well in the first 2.5 to three years of the trump administration due to tax cuts and good policies that were implemented, there was still a deficit of around a trillion dollars. that is frightening during good economic times to have a deficit that big and a budget that is barely over $4 trillion. that is too much, by the way. both parties failed during the bush years. spending was out of control during the obama years. spending was out of control when democrats were fully in charge, when republicans were fully in went up.ficits and with a split control we have seen the same issue will stop we are deeply worried about that. kinds of things you can always put off until tomorrow politicians want to

think. it does cramp economic growth and the ability of the private sector to get capital to do what he needs to do to create wealth and jobs for folks. these deficits are so dangerous we are approaching estimates of around $27 trillion in debt. that is a devastatingly high number. it does hurt our country. at some point in the near future we will be paying more interest on the debt then we are putting towards defense, education, or really important priorities like infrastructure for the country. we would urge both parties, because both parties have failed, to think about the deficit and debt as they make these decisions. that is important. host: tim phillips with americans for prosperity, serving as their president. there is a viewer who texted us about liability protections.

he says liability protections designed to shield bad actors from the full consequence of their actions. it's anti-capitalist to allow them. guest: i would say that those fearing the lawsuits the most, mentionedre what i earlier. churches, synagogues, mosques will stop they will be targets of lawsuits without question. the churches, synagogues, and mosques want to provide spiritual services and help to folks often most in need in their communities. they will be on the front line being wiped out if we don't get reforms. small businesses without the ability to hire big lawyers and go through the appeals process will be hammered if we don't get liability protections. i mentioned schools. we will see a raft of lawsuits towards schools, which will mean taking money away from educating our children to pay what will be massive settlements.

it's easy to say it's just about protecting a big business or something like that, but the truth is the big businesses are the ones with the deepest pockets and often able to fight those. they have every right to do that youshould, but i'm telling we will need liability protection. otherwise, we are going to lose any kind of economic recovery due to the payments that will pull money out that we need to educate our children, provide faith and religious support, and community support for people. often churches, mosques, and synagogues do that stuff and our schools, who need to be educating our children, not holding massive reserves of honey for what they -- of money for what they think will be judgment. the liability reform is badly needed -- excuse me.

liability protections are badly needed, or we will see the return to normal, people getting their normal lives back, dramatically slowed down. up, buffalo, new york, democrats line. caller: good morning, mr. phillips. i would like to know what this organization, americans for prosperity, whose prosperity are we talking about? all americans? it doesn't seem like you believe in that, because you want to cut states ando the people who have lost their jobs. this is nobody's fault, this pandemic. it's something we all have to for.equally bear the cost poorestdn't be upon the of the poor. the richest of the rich should

also have to suffer as much as the poorest of the poor. atst: we at americans prosperity -- americans are prosperity, our goal is to remove barriers that hold every american from every walk of life , every walk of life, back from being able to live fulfilling lives was that we do that across the board. often on the economic policy front, what we are fighting for is more freedom and opportunity for people at the margins, those hurting the most, to be able to have fulfilling lives and live fulfilling lives. thatnk about the policies are sometimes hard to explain. i will give one or two examples. we supported telemedicine to be goanded, which let folks not into a doctor's office and lowers costs for people. telemedicine helps seniors who vulnerable tomost

this virus stay home and access medical care without being exposed. i think about lower taxes, that usually saves money for folks struggling at the margins. e state raises the gas attacks, my home state of virginia just raised the gas tax, who does that hurt the most? the single mom to be struggling with a couple of jobs to research to children was not that extra $60 or $70 a month on gas hurts her a lot more than someone maybe making $400,000 a year in the north virginia suburbs. the policy we and promote, we want to help every american. often the americans hurt the most by higher taxes and more

government regulation, our people at the margin struggling the most. host: we just have a few minutes. what do you think about this recent call by the president of sending federal forces into cities dealing with protesting? guest: public safety is important and the rule of law is crucial. you can't have prosperity in a country where -- and a country where folks can live their lives if you don't have the rule of law. i think you want to look carefully before you have several forces going into cities -- special forces going into cities or localities. it's one thing to make sure that a federal courthouse is protected, because that's federal property in the federal government is responsible and should be protecting those sites. i think in portland, oregon for almost 60 nights the federal been defacedas and lives have been threatened. the federal government has

a role. when you're talking about existing surge capacity on programs, that is something that seems reasonable. you want to be careful that local control is respected. federalists is a important part of the constitution which allows states and localities to have a great say in how their affairs are run. it is finding the right balance. i hope that on this topic, as on others, the two parties can find ways to work together to find their balance. i can tell you americans, when they are seeing this pandemic, the economic crisis, they want a government that's working. they don't want gotcha politics. up, the one you brought which is, what is the balance between the federal response and then having states and localities be able to run their

cities and states? it's finding a balance. that is where government has got to work together, and that is something we need in this country right now more than at any point i've seen during my lifetime. host: tim phillips, the president for americans for prosperity. >> c-span's washington journal. everyday we are taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day and we will discuss policy issues that impact the. coming up, the cato institute walter olson's president trump's sending troops to cities to combat crime. and the great american outdoors act passed by the house this week and the effect the coronavirus is having on national parks. watch washington journal live at 7:00 eastern saturday morning. join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments,

messages and tweets. next, jill biden taking part in a roundtable discussion about the coronavirus. the event featured texas democratic representative eddie bernice johnson and marc veasey. hi, everybody. veasey, congressman for the 33rd congressional district. i want to thank everybody for being on this digital zoom event today. dr. jill biden, thank you so much. we really appreciate you joining us. we love you in dallas, texas. we love you in fort worth. we love you all over the state and just really appreciate your presence here today. thank you so much. dr. biden: thank you. rep. veasey: absolutely. and congresswoman eddie bernice johnson. the congresswoman is one of our committee chairmen. she's the chairperson of the science and te