>> the contenders. about the men who ran for the presidency and lost. they changed political history. all week at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. several founder of labor unions and five-time socialist party presidential candidate. eugene v dabbs. from west lafayette, indiana we are joined by nadia brown, associate professor of political science and african-american studies at purdue university. discussing the role of black women in campaign 2020. from the opinion pages of the new york times on this topic and the selection of kamala harris by joe biden. this is not just a victory for kamala harris, millions of black women and their political labor have made this historic moment possible. and putd you describe

into historical context the significance of the selection of kamala harris? prof. brown: this is huge. she is the first woman of color, the first black and indian american woman to serve in the senate, she is the first woman of color to be on a presidential ticket. this is monumental. there are no if sandor butz about it. there are two other white women who are -- there are two other white women who were vice presidential nominees, kamala harris is the first woman of color. host: you are quoted as saying black women in politics are invisible and hyper visible at the same time. what do you mean by that and does this election change that? prof. brown: i hope it changes some things. by hyper visible i mean black women are ever present. people notice them and we stick out because we are not the norm in american politics based on

the simple majority of american politicians are white man. of the american senate are women. any time there is someone who is a body out of place, someone who is not the norm that we are used to seeing in politics, their body stands out. in that way this person is hyper visible. on the flipside they are also invisible. their policy preferences are usually seen as extreme. they are demonized in ways that we have not seen in these other -- for these other groups. they are often talked over, ignored, marginalized, and not paid attention to. they are looked at to stereotype in ways that do not .ive them their full humanity host: how did we get to this

moment? what were the key political steps or cultural forces leading to the selection of the first of indianerican woman ancestry as well on a major party ticket? prof. brown: i think this was the perfect storm of things that led to come allah being the perfect pick for right now. is that theing timing was right for thinking about the different kind of representative. this time the democrat party saw six women who were running for the top of the ticket. this was previously unheard of for a major political party. the kind of national regret in some ways that we ended up taking throughout our primaries, we knew we were going to send an white male to the

white house. there was a groundswell where these groups were saying that something did not sit right with us. with the world with the opportunity of not having a woman president. womenshould be some reflected in the top echelons of politics. that was last year and the beginning of this year. the game changer was in the last couple of months with the black lives matter protest and the renewed attention -- the pandemic causing an economic meltdown and it shapes the lives of people and color -- people of color and women. led the xenophobic attacks by the republicans, particularly donald trump, on

the kungflu. the asian attacks helped to galvanize the country that race and racism is something that americans are still dealing with kamala harris stepped in at the right point in time. this country recognizing that not having women's representation is something that we are not as comfortable with. host: host: talking with nadia brown, talking about the role black women play in campaign 2020. if you want to join the rop -- the conversation, republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) s (202)0, independent

748-8002. some stats we put on the screen for viewers, about 70% of eligible black women voted -- women voted when barack obama was on the ballot. the number in 2016 slipped to 64%. where would you pick that number in 2020? >> that's a complicated question. i think because of voter tactics and because of covid 19 restrictions, actually mailing ballots would be a problem and long line, polling places closed, the lack of pulling workers. we will not see the full nest kamalafullness of what

might have added on july 4. the numbers are 70%, 64% turnout in the last two presidential cycles. how does that compare to the black men, other groups as well? sure. an outsized role in participation. they vote and participate in politics at numbers larger then other demographics. the other thing more unique about black women is high-level cohesiveness. unlike men who also have high levels of voting bang turnout, black women are -- voting turnout, black women are the back bone of the democratic party. toen turn out upwards of 90% support democratic candidates, whereas black men have a little slippage. it is not huge, but enough in

these gender differences. typically, in an election year, about six to 12 -- 6% to 12% of black men will vote for the republican candidate. black women are usually voting 97% for democrats. 84%, 86%, andvote others go to the republican party. that is where we see the difference, this group of people that is usually poor, in terms of skills or requirement you need to participate in politics, money, time, and skill set are doing so to turn out to the democratic paul -- democratic party. host: we have colors for you. a democrat out of north carolina first. caller: good morning to you. i agree with everything she said. it's time. this is harris' time. the american people need to wake up because we do not need another four years like we went room.

a president -- well he is not my president. [inaudible] he wants to tear down mount rushmore, he does not want to fund the postal service, he has a trick up his sleeve some way and another. you hit it on the head. just like obama told joe, he nailed it really good. it is time. i am a black person, honey, and i don't look at someone and their skin color. we were all created by god, and it is time for the democratic party to take back the country. i think those two will make a big, big change in this world. host:host: brenda in north carolina. guest: thanks for that. to thank, but mostly to these points, the

caller's rights. this is the right political capitalist for this particular time. a large number of qualified, competent, successful women he could have chosen from. taking nothing away from any of the other women competing for vp. i think this was just the right time for harris because of the events happening in the world, diversity she brings, and because she is a like-minded moderate like biden. she also -- i also would agree with the color that it is not just about getting trump out of the white house. for the democratic party, they are thinking of ways they can energize the base to turnout, people that will vote for down ballot spaces. this is the thing this ticket will have to prioritize. oft: the next color, out

california, republican -- caller, out of california, republican. caller: i'm particularly distraught having everything brought down to race. and sickening.s obama was president were eight years and he did nothing for the black community. trump did more for the black community in four years then than -- then i'll -- obama did. as far as kamala harris, she has sent more black people to prison than biden's crime bill. i don't know why all of a sudden being black qualifies you for everything in office today, but i find it absolutely insulting how the democratic party is always pandering to black people and people of color, and instead of facing their issues ifications andal

character, it is always based on race. host: 90 a brown? -- nadia brown? guest: i think they bring up a good point and i welcome the opportunity to address why around race in politics matter. anytime race is used as a sloppy proxy to stand in for preferences or policy, that is definitely a problem. is a centralized or one group is seen as a monolith because they share racial identity that is a problem. i agree wholeheartedly, and i think that is the work scholars should be out here doing more, giving the context of this. do, and i hope i have time to walk ruth this, -- host: we have about 35 or 40

more minutes, so take your time. want toeally what i underscore is in response to the caller, that's groups have different policy preferences. in similar ororld dissimilar ways, based on their socio-or political history in the united states. this is not a universal claim. we know there are differences among or within groups, but the history of group formation and racial hierarchy in the united somes provides for us markings of how groups operate in the world, how other groups are treated by those in power and out of power. the dominant groups versus sub dominant groups. because of how groups have been treated repeatedly over the course of several centuries in the united states, certain

groups have a level of cohesion or see the world in similar ways . this is not to say there are not differences within groups. i for one study black women, women, immigrant women, and general status, motherhood status, to show there is so much complexity within the black experience. one thing that is foundational --america was built on hetero patriarchy is built on exclusions. it was built on gender exclusions and more. it was built on a heterosexual narrative. the state has embodied all of these things through making policies and laws, creating who are the citizens, who are not. who has access to resources and who does not? who gets to live in certain spaces and who does not? all of these things are political, not just social.

because of that, different groups have different relationships to power and proxy. it is absolutely a shorthand to say this is a great thing for black people, a great thing for asian american people. this is a great thing for immigrants. the nomination of kamala harris. but behind this, it has to be underscored, the history of why. anytime race is blanket lee used as a shorthand is doing a fallacy and not bringing people along to understand the important and continued feeling of race. we see this even more played out to the pandemic. i hear this with my students and race is not going away. gender-based hierarchies are not going away. anytime we are able to point to one group of people that are experiencing hardships or difficulty, not because of just

orir own lack of agency their own decision-making, but because of institutions -- institutions and structures put in place to prevent them. that is something the political class should address it. biden, in my opinion, is trying to get at some of this by picking kamala as his vp. this is not a perfect one-to-one match as the caller noted. there are republicans and progressives taking aim at kamala's fan, particularly her 's views, --kamala particularly here prosecutions. xer weis our first gen would see in the white house. are people we have not

seen much in national spotlight. so this is a huge time not just because of racial markers, but because of the historical motivation seen even made more apparent because of the pandemic and the health disparities we are seeing in today's climate. host: to savannah, tennessee. this is marie, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. you are on with nadia brown. put race would like to aside or skin color or whatever and make a remark about character. it was noticeable to me that a nerve or policy affected left arm that she kept touching and playing with her hair. it was sloppy and messy, and she ,as an effective nasal voice

indicating a level of immaturity. great womensome albright,erkel, condoleezza, to be proud of, but i don't think kamala and joe's ticket is going to be lame. host: professor brown, what do you think of those criticisms from the caller? guest: this is a perfect segue for this new book i have. [laughter] thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk about some of my new research. i'm interested in the politics of appearance, particularly for black women candidates and political elites. the narrative is that the caller -- the narratives the caller just shared is how the public as a heightened attention to what women of color look like in their behaviors, and linking responses to how we

think it is connected to character and outlook matters. enough, kamala, as i multiracial he black woman scored a high with black women have done with my co-author out of texas university. ,hat we show is that kamala being a lighter skinned, straight hair, more petite woman makes are more favorable than darker skin, more coarsely textured, natural haired black women. not in ways to downplay what the caller's criticism of kamala, but to show the politics of appearance does matter. these are things that in

political science or popular culture take this more frivolous. and thatve hair, skin, is not serious works of politics or policy, but people are paying attention to this. i think this is something i hope to shed light on during this project. host: how do you scientifically tested? guest: through experiments. [laughter] we have experiments with voters where we have given voters pictures of black women and changed the appearance of the black woman, keeping all of the policyhings the same, or positions, things she says, who she says she is, things she cares about, and her attitude. they assess their feelings of the candidate and what they think are strongest rates are and biggest have attributes -- and biggest attributes. that is the quantitative work that daniel did our project. on my end, i am a qualitative

research journalist so i talked to voters and are able -- and i'm able to use the narratives to share how they feel their appearance has impacted how they are perceived in politics. host: you have a name for the book yet? guest: [laughter] the backend of the book is called lack of the political leave but the front-end we are still working on. it will probably not be published until march but it is under contract and will come out early 2021. i don't have a good name, so if callers have suggestions, i'm all ears. host: we will be happy to have you on when the book comes out to talk about it more. diane in new jersey, democrat, you are next. caller: good morning, and you for taking my call. miss brown, you are awesome, such a credit to women. i have a thing to say of how

about -- say about how they are using kamala as a running mate for biden. careful african-american community. they are using her. i always talk my children to be leaders and not followers. she is flamboyant. you have to take a close look at her position. what is in the past and now. she has been a person that has been a follower in the legal community in the persecution of the poor. taking it all the way away from race. she is a person who is for , and the african-american community is being decimated by abortion forever. out for theook constitutional rights of the born and unborn. host: can i ask where you heard she has for abortion? she is strongly supported by

planned parenthood. caller: yes, she is, meaning she is for abortion. host: understood. go ahead. caller: one of the things we have to be careful of, african-american communities, democrats are put in there so they can get our votes. the way-- be wary of our constitution could be decimated, starting with the second amendment. we have a right to protect ourselves. kamala is a beautiful, flamboyant woman. don't be fooled, because so was hitler's, man rather -- hitler, man rather. host: professor brown? guest: that is a strong comparison. i want to underscore this point. i think most times, well not most times, in the popular anstruction and even in

talking point is that groups of americans or americans in general are just not politically aware. my own research shows that is not the case. , italking with black voters find they have a high level of specific asian around two would they will vote for ny. -- specification around who they will vote for ny. vote for andta, -- why. in serving data, people say people think i don't have a brain in my head because i'm black. and i do have a brain, so i am going to show you and talk to you in depth about my policy coverage of that position. i think that is the biggest that my participants in my studies want to get out there. correct in caller is reminding us that americans are

smart, that they are thinking about politics and policy in isnced ways, and that this -- this information campaign, to think like voters are going to be swayed by the color or racial identification of a candidate. we see this today with conversations around kanye west's presidency run, around kamala harris. i want to push that black voters are sophisticated mismarked, they know they have different policy preferences that sometimes align with the candidate, and sometimes don't. they are astute enough to recognize there are some political already use or local politicians that have their message at heart, even though they don't agree with their policies 100%. i make a calculation to say want to support this particular

set of politicians as opposed to this, because they had an overarching policy preference that, even if i don't like this one particular thing. i want to give credit where credit is due, and i wanted to move away from overly simplistic notions that believe that minority communities will vote for a candidate because they share a racial or gender background. host: 90 a brown is our guest from purdue university, and the american -- nadia brown is our guest from purdue university, a professor there. we continue to talk about black women in politics, and we should bring up some of the historical pioneering of black women in politics as well. remind to shirley chisholm was. guest: she was the first black woman elected to congress from brooklyn new york.

-- brooklyn, new york. black, multiethnic -- barbadianrbados became, excuse me, who the first black woman to run under the democratic party president. she did not get far, but she leaves her legacy of being one of the founding mothers of the congressional black caucus, national organization of women, and she lived her life advocating for minority ties and education. she was the first black woman to want to see it in congress and later becomes the first woman to run for president on a major party ticket. host: what do you think the

differences are on the early generation of black women politician pioneers like shirley chisholm and today's black women in congress and leaders? guest: today's women in congress and leaders owe it all to their early feminist black foremothers. there's not much that separates them. all these women were ambitious, smart, capable. times justly, the dictated that there were not that many black women, women of elites.olitical thankfully, because of the civil right movement, feminist movement, opening up educational and special opportunities, there are so many more black women and women of color who are able to

run for elected officials -- as elected officials. because these women opened the door. in 2020, there are over 130 black women who have filed to run for congress. this is the largest number we have seen in ever, history breaking. this number also includes a larger number of black republican women, the same -- women. the same holds true for asians, asian american and islander women. this is a year of women of color who are running, and they would not have had the opportunity to do so if it were not for the women who entered politics in the early 1970's, 1980's, 1990's. unfortunately today, we are still having first. there are still whole states that have never sent a woman to congress, never had a black woman governor, so there are so many challenges. some states may have never had a

woman governor, period, or in a leadership position. i think we will still be talking about firsts in this 2020 election cycle. host: from illinois, this is connie. independent. good morning. caller: thank you for having me on c-span, and thank you, miss brown. i have enjoyed listening to you. woman.ent is, i am a i happen to be a white woman. boxes.tired of put into we are not monolithic because of our skin color or our gender. i happen to love condoleezza rice, nikki haley. i did not like sarah palin. i really do not care for kamala harris. it has nothing to do with their race or gender. i'm just tired of being put into the box. i can see how people are proud

of, you know, of someone. i didn't care for sarah palin, and i am a woman. [laughter] i would just like to hear your comments on that. guest: of course. of course. what i think i hear you saying is you have more excitement for people that align with your own policy preferences or how you see the world. to add backmportant into this conversation. right? that this is making history because we have never seen -- america has never seen a woman of color vp. what will fall from this our conversations around these groups have been marginalized because it is a first, but what my research is showing and the americany of population demographics are that we will continue to see these first spot will matter in different and unique ways.

in my own research, what i find speak tocians have to the policy preferences of their particular groups they are trying to reach out to. in the past, that was not the case. when i first started doing research on black elected officials in the early 2000's, i was told different things about voters from black elected officials -- black voters from black elected officials. is more highly attuned or more attention paid to policy preferences reaching out to in theseat are wanted complexities. i think that would be the goal of american politics and policy. it is the understanding that, at one point, there were basic needs that needed to be met and i think there still are. i don't want to underscore -- i do not want to deploy lightly that there are groups we have yet to see have adequate

representation, groups that are absolutely dying and having their first policy affected because there is no voice at the table. trans community and trans communities of color, communities that are over policed. for the majority of other americans who enjoy at least one dominant identity, see their selves reflective policies in ways that are beyond other basic needs met. can we talk about policy preferences? what are things that might animate them and fall more on the lines of class and economy or fall more on thinking justiceimate change and for children in the educational settings. .here are nuances these kinds of conversations get elevated. at this point in time, some groups have that kind of conversation.

we can see this around differences in how women vote, how women politicians talk about women's issues or talk to women. we don't see this so much in communities that have not had a chance to have their seat at the table. host: william is next out of wilmington, north alina. a republican. caller: good morning. miss brown and john, how is everyone doing this morning? host: doing good. go ahead. caller: i want to say to miss brown, she has a lot of opinions and is a professor of african studies. i'm curious to how she feels about a lot of the people in the streets right now that are tearing down statues and all of stuffith ancestral type where these people were slave owners this. i wonder what the discussion would be with your students, where ms. all of that

harris and her family were also slaveowners. as, in the african studies, far as her being jamaican and not really of african dissent, and familying -- being slaveowners, what with the discussion be in the classroom regarding the discussion? host: thank you for your questions william. guest: so i just want to kind of clear some things up. [inaudible] descendentne who is -- people from africa throughout caribbean's,ca, united

with my student, avoiding thinking about making the linkages between the two. ambassador robert o'brien, they are going to summarize what was made today. it we also have a special representative here