"the contenders" about the men who ran for the presidency and lost, but changed political history. tonight, the governor of illinois and later ambassador to the united nations. "the contenders" this week at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. bidens record is a shameful rollcall of the most catastrophic betrayals and blunders in our lifetime. he has spent his entire career on the wrong side of history. >> our current president has failed in his most basic duty to the nation. he has failed to protect us. he has failed to protect america. my fellow americans, that is unforgivable. >> the first presidential debate between donald trump and joe 29en is tuesday, september at 9:00 p.m. eastern. watch live coverage on c-span,

live streaming and on-demand at c-span.org or listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> joining us next is the host of cnn's reliable sources and author of the brand-new book, top of the hoax. thanks for being on "washington journal" this morning. how soon into donald trump's presidency did you realize you wanted to write about his connection to fox news? guest: i was fascinated by this from the first week of his presidency when he started tweeting the banners on the bottom of the screen on fox and friends and when he started chatting with the hosts in ways that were so more casual than other presidents have had. i didn't decide to write the book until later on when the impact of fox foreign policy and fox influence became more clear.

last year, in my research, talking to sources at fox and the white house, it was clear to foxifi of americac is a bigger storyation in his book and the word hoax is related to the pandemic because president trump used the word the democrats raising alarms about the virus, criticizing him and he use the word hoax once in february. he used it once in march, suggesting this was an attempt to take down the president when in fact at the time, the virus was spreading across the country and it was very much a real event, a terrible event, not a hoax. it begins with the pandemic and ends that pandemic but in between, tells the story of trump and fox in a brand-new way. host: you go into the background of the meaning of the word hoax rather than fake news, tell us about that. guest: you think about rhetoric

and what these words mean. it wasn't until january, 2017 that trump used the phrase "fake news." day, iand after election was on cnn talking about actual fake news, made up stories that were polluting peoples facebook and twitter feeds. i don't get credit or blame for it. it goes to other researchers and scholars who have been studying this pheno the term was being used during the presidential transition period to describe this plague of take stories all over the internet and then trump redefined that. he has succeeded in redefining the term. now he uses even more incendiary language. he says the word hoax once a day average.

the takeaway for both supporters and trackers, it is the message that anything could be a hoax, nothing is officially real, you don't know what to believe anymore and that has dangerous consequences. host: you've read about the background of donald trump and fox news, it did not just start with the 2016 election. how early on the donald trump become connected and a really involved part in the fox news operation? 2011, i go back to starting to call in every week to fox and friends, the morning show. as much as people like to credit or blame "the apprentice," fox and friends was critical because by calling in every week, he got to learn what their priorities were. that gave him a real advantage in the 2016 campaign. host: part of your criticism of fox news, he wrote that fox is an addictive substance. for its biggest fans, it is an identity, a way of life.

hard-core viewers rarely change the channel. they compare the network to a church or city hall. they flock to it for reinforcement, for inspiration and for comfort food and the president is obviously very aware of that relationship, right? guest: he definitely is. in some ways he has become the fox news president, he has filled the leadership vacuum at the network. primetime stars, morningstar is, they want to put on a show for the president and his supporters. this is not automatically bad thing, there is a long history in america partisan media, there are liberal editorial boards, there are conservative magazines. we benefit in america when we had a lot of diversity and a lot of different media outlets that are all covering politics and covering society. the problem with fox is that so much of the information is misinformation. so much of the storytelling is misleading to the public

including president trump. there are so many times with the president has given that information, even things like how many people died in a helicopter when kobe bryant died. things involving north korea and foreign policy. there are so many times were the astray.t is led dozens and dozens of staffers spoke with me on the condition of anonymity, and some of whom did also speak on the record because they are worried about how addicted the president is to the network content. guest, you know him from cnn's reliable sources, with us until 9:00 eastern this morning. we welcome your calls and comments. eastern time0 zones. (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific. if you're a fox news fan, (202) 748-8002.

what is going on with the president recently? and critical of fox news seemingly plugging organizations like sinclair and oan. guest: trump is like a summer thunderstorm. i love a summer thunderstorm. one minute it is sunny, the next minute it is stormy, and a few minutes later it passes and the sun is shining again. that can be a way to think about the president's moods. he gives an interview to fox, then he trashes kris wallace, then soon enough he will be talking positively about chris wallace again. he cares deeply about the program, he is watching many hours of tv per day, and he wants less news and more propaganda. less news and more from front opinion. he criticizes the news anchors and promotes the primetime show

with laura ingraham with whom he gave an hour-long interview yesterday. host: broadly in the administration, how much influence does fox news have in shaping policy? guest: it is about policy, hiring and firing decisions as well. the revolving door is something we have been watching for decades and certainly some reporters joined the obama administration and some joined the bush administration but between boxing trump is a much more intense version of this. went to fox corporation and now she is back in the white house. there are just more and more intense examples of this in the truck years host: they passed presidency. host:there have been several books written about fox news even before trump came to office. what is a different angle that you take? guest: i think fox has changed a lot in the trunk years. -- trump years.

there has been a real leadership vacuum with the network. many staffers all the way up to anchors and executives told me that there is not a clear leadership structure for the editorials, the content of the network. it is an incredibly profitable business. is doingbusiness better than ever. but when it comes to the content, there are real concerns internally about who is in charge and what is being broadcast. there is a sense that the views of the network programming, that is why i thought i had to write the book. thats become really clear what is aired on fox does have life or death consequences. it is especially true for fox because it is by far the most popular. host: let's go to calls, we have that line. for fox news viewers, illinois, good morning. caller: hey.

this guy is a joke. to begin with, they are not even talking about the middle east bill that trump has done. he is a joke. they don't cover anything good that trump does. i mean, this is ridiculous. he is the reason. , cbs, nbc, fox news, all of them. getting ready to fight. from the minute he walked down the elevator, they started in on it trump support is being racist. let me tell you, i am not a racist. and that is all they pushed. out last week and endorsed biden, but have you heard it on his general? not a word about it. host: any word for our fox news here in illinois? guest: i think it is important

that none of us paid with a broad brush. so i'm really careful for example, never to say that all trump supporters are racist. how in the world can anyone possibly make that claim? instead, look at the research, look at the studies. the connection between racial resentment and support for trump, that does not mean all supporters are racist. very far from that. but i'm grateful for the call and that is why i'm so excited to be on. i feel like one of the things that is missing in cable news, lacking in news coverage is a connection to voters. we need more stories about what voters are feeling and believing and fewer stories about talking heads, so i'm grateful to hear the feedback. host: wisconsin, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. fear andeve fox is a stationmoting

but what i am really concerned about today is the president going to kenosha. let's look at the facts. the police carry thousands of guns. the protesters, some guns/ right now, trunk followers are heading there with their ar-15's. firecracker could be a massive massacre. trump is that spark, he should not go. mayor hader and the asked him not to come. the danger if one firecracker goes off, think of what that would do. i would like your response. thank you. guest: i share your concerns and i think many people share your concerns about what happens when there is one city in one community that becomes international news all of a sudden and in this case, kenosha

becomes the stage for the international media and for national politicians, and i always feel for the residents of these communities, whether it was charlottesville in 2017 or kenosha and portland right now. what i wish for is a strong, local news media so that people can have a better sense of what it is like on the ground. the president yesterday said the entire city of portland has been in a blze for years. everyone knows that is not true. there have been some problems downtown, but if you read local news coverage, you get a very different sense of what is going on in the community than you do from some politicians or some national sources. that is true for kenosha as well. i can rely on the local kenosha news for coverage of what is happening there. host: you are writing your book, you have been a news junkie since you were a kid. your news site

very on, did you ever imagine yourself being part of a news organization? guest: i was assessed with television news, i was lucky enough to the on c-span once when i was in college, and i never imagined being on tv, i never imagined having a full-time tv job. i thought i was on the outside looking in. i did to the on both sides of the fence. i did to the half on the inside anchoring a program, but also on the outside, covering how the media works and doesn't work. these are large and situations were media failed americans. jobs crisis in this country, there are other examples like that where we need to make sure we're listening to the public and not just the politicians and covering what the problems of the public are. i'm grateful to put a spotlight on the new coverage. bob inet's hear from

mineral bluff, georgia. caller: yes. power,ion, talking about the media has the power and started back with cnn and the 24-hour news cycle. and then you had social media and that handout. they have the power, the media has the power. i learned that probably about 10 i saw a story, the code enforcement in some cities is just out of control. and nobody wanted to hear about it. choose andck and because of the covid, it seems like every scab is being picked and we can't get out of the news cycle. i heard you talking about portland, i know people that

live in oregon, and i live in mineral bluff which is not too far away from atlanta, and i would not go to atlanta on must i had to get on an airplane or i'm about to go to 75. there's many people in rural areas who would not dare to go to the cities. if president trump can't choose his words when he says on fire, he just means it's burning down, he just means that there's a people and things of that matter. we appreciate your call. guest: i respect what you're saying and i think what you're saying is a view shared by many impression,ave this but i don't think it reflects reality and i will tell you why. unrestworst night of the

in new york city, i was out driving, i was seeing what was happening, i was live on cnn. , itme home to my building was so upsetting to see on that evening, but the next day, the glass was cleaned up. my daughter is back on the playground, my family was back outside. life returned to normal so quickly. of course, we still have problems, the buildings are mostly empty. but i wish we could come to see atlanta where cnn is based were i had hundreds of friends, the vibrant city of atlanta. i think the depiction of cities that is happening by trump and fox news is just not reflecting reality. that does not mean i am not concerned about crime and violence, i am.

but i know that a city of 8 million people can have its share of troubles and also incredible successes. i want to make sure that people who are not living in new york or in atlanta know about the full picture, not just the narrow picture sometimes shown on fox. atlanta, that is where sean hannity rose to fame on radio in atlanta. you write extensively about sean hannity, writing this in particular, saying that hannity and trump worked hand-in-hand to tar the entire news media as fake. both men's message was that box with the only legit network while everyone else was fraudulent. how did this relationship between donald trump and sean hannity unfold? guest: i remember spending an evening with hannity and atlanta when i was a reporter for the new york times. trashed theannity new york times, trash cnn, but they also want the attention.

that is why hannity and i have known each other for about 15 years at the point. i think that the hannity and trump alliance is deeply about the gop and they care deeply about power, and they have benefited from this relationship that they have where trump calls to hannity, gives talking points, back and forth. some of theis when themes of the ukraine team were planted on hannity's show. that is what eventually led to the impeachment inquiry. i think there are some times when had he tries to help president trump that it actually hurts him. host: let's hear from donald, north carolina, good morning. donald, do as a favor, make sure you knew your volume and go ahead with your question or comment. caller: a couple comments.

one, like the other day, they put on fiery but mostly peaceful protests. humpty dumpty. we all know you are not reliable, you are nothing but a stooge. host: we are going to let you go, he called you humpty dumpty, brian. about the -- on cnn and elsewhere. guest: hannity started calling me humpty dumpty years ago, i guess the idea is that humpty impty had a great fall, so guess he is waiting for me to have a great fall, or maybe something to do with the egg shape of my head. insultotable that the used on fox did use on my facebook feed, my twitter feed. it does go to show the power that these stars have.

these are the graphics on the bottom of the screen, the banners. different tv shows handle these differently. on my career, i view every banner before we go on the air and i edit them and any changes to them. i am 100% responsible. if you don't like the banner on my show, it is my fault. i think that banner that the caller mentioned that said fiery but mostly peaceful, that was probably a mistake. probably a young producer trying their best under deadline for the working situation, but that kind of thing becomes easily criticized and is probably not the right banner to put on screen. what i would suggest to the day,r,view cnn for a don't view it for 10 seconds, everybody makes mistakes. try give you it in totality, in context.

pick theair to cherry most foolish moments or the most outlandish moments on a television network. instead, try to look at the totality of it, but know that when things happen, there are consequences, there is accountability. i had a conversation with one of my bosses last week because i made a mistake in my knightly newsletter, and i am better off for having that conversation. what we need more of in journalism are those checks and balances and standards and practices so that when i do slip up, and we talk about it, it does not happen again. caller: good morning c-span, good morning, america. i just wanted to say thank you, is cnn, for having th anchor on because over the last three and a half months, we've gotten to see the exposure of

how it has completely been burned down. i do believe -- do you believe in polls? guest: i do believe in polls, yes. caller: the last poll i saw from a reliable source was in 1970, let's talk about walter cronkite for a second. the united states believed that the media was giving them real, actual information. a new paul just came out that says that is completely the opposite. in believed in the media, 1970. now, 20% does. that, i lookk at at this as very unreliable sources, and you guys always talk about how many times trump has lied. i've calculated that i think with your -- i don't know if there's any journalists left at cnn, but i know that if i were to estimate, about 300 different distortions of misinformation that we get out of cnn, and i'm

watching from the airport, but if you add all that up, it comes out to be 300,000 plus distortions of truth. my thing is coming here, is that you guys, this is how low you will go. made liest and you andyou defamed a child, then you want to settle out of court to pay this child for distorting information about this young individual. i would say if anything is happening at cnn and anybody who buys your book, it is religious one of those things that is dividing our nation, and i don't believe in dividing our nation, it hurts our great nation, and so cnn is really the enemy of truth, and that is my opinion, thank you. host: brian? guest: i am grateful for the

call, and i know you're not the only person that feels this way. there is that process of radicalization in this country with media bashing that is absolutely unprecedented. 20, 30 years ago, talking at media bias, there were some really valid points to that critique. it is absolutely true that lots of journalists are based in new york or washington or big cities, and mainstream newsrooms are there to make sure that that bias does not seep into the news coverage. talknk it is different to about things as if they are enemies. no american is the enemy of another american. no news outlet is the enemy of america. to say that causes damage. and here is my challenge you, and i say this with respect. cnn.com, look at the transcripts of my show. go through it and look for what the lies are and point out the specific lies and we can have a

conversation. because as i said a few minutes ago, that is actually critical. in order to win back trust, we have to be accessible and accountable, we have to be on programs like this one taking calls and hearing from the public. here is 1.i would make about trust in the media. everybody trusts some form of media, it is just that in the past two decades, we don't trust the same form. some trust cnn, others trust fox news. i think what has exacerbated this is a daily dose of media bashing on fox where they essentially tell viewers that. fox's the 24 hour, seven days per week ad for trump. other, we try to promote media, i don't always do that on fox. i think the point about trust in media is crucial, there has

differently than a polarization of trust, especially on the right where there is an incredible distance from media, probably fanned by donald trump and is aides. i hope that folks will be able to see in the future that the press is not perfect, but it is trying to report the truth about what is going on in the trump administration and when it comes to these polls, we need to use them as a challenge. it is a challenge every day to try to be better listeners, to try to win trust back. the host: book about being a kid, being in the studio audience of crossfire back in the day. can you trace some of the contentiousness of cable news factor that show in particular, maybe similar shows? guest: that's a very interesting point. there are fewer of those segments on cable news these days.

you get a democrat, you get a republican, and you let us fight. i don't see as much of that on television as i did a few years ago. serious,emic is so these stories are so serious, what you are seeing more of our reporters and analysts trying to make sense of the news and cut through the mire of misinformation. i do think he did go back to the 1990's and the 2000s, a model pioneered by cnn and an improved ailes, to have these wrestling matches on tv, they reflect the mood of the country, but i also think of the country is not as divided as it appears on television sometimes. sometimes these red and blue, left and right battles, they make it seem like we are more weided and more bitter than actually are. i don't know about you, when i go to the grocery store, when i go to starbucks, we are not

thinking in republican-democrat terms, we are just trying to keep each other safe. is polarized,ntry but i don't think we are as polarized as we appear on cable news. host: about 30 minutes left with our guest, the host of "reliable sources" on cnn. donald book is "hoax: trump, fox news, and the dangerous distortion of truth." host: in the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 mounted and pacific. and for foxnews viewers, (202) 748-8002. deborah, west chester, ohio. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am a bit of a news junkie i went into a scientific field but now retired and i have time to watch c-span, thank goodness for c-span. but there's a couple of things i think that would give me insight

as to how we came to where we are today. remember, and like i say, i'm 60 years old, i remember when i would watch abc, nbc, cnn, and i would watch event and i would hear the commentary and i would say, that is not exactly what they said. and so i saw that bias involved. evolve.e -- those thoughts gave people a different point of view, and i think that is why people initially went to fox. the other thing is that because , you are aers today major profit center. chaos, thetry is in news media makes more money. when the politicians keep us it can direct our vote.

thank goodness for c-span because we have the opportunity to listen to both sides without a biased way, it is not a prophet. one thing is that i would like that boxt, you said with people in organizations outside of the news. todd alllrod, chuck went to the news media. it is just a point of view. we, the people of like to have a source. are you going to raskin joe biden the question, what are you going to do with missile defense in poland? you stopped it with obama, that was critical. we are not talking about the most serious issues. we talk about personally and likability. host: you said you watched c-span, we're not a breaking news network. when it comes to those kinds of stories, who do you turn to? caller: i flip around all the stations.

i start out looking at, cnn used to be one of my favorite stations when they first came on, because of the news 24 and seven. -- .47. -- 24/7. i watch fox and cbs. that is how i get my national news at night. i mightng the day, orch fox in the morning, maybe i flip over to msnbc, they are somewhat interesting for 15 or 20 minutes. host: thanks for your input. guest: -- announcer: we are going to segment ofve this washington journal. you can watch all of our programs on our website.

the u.s. house meeting today for sesave -- brief the peaker pro tempore: house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. he clerk: the speaker's room, washington, d.c., september 1, 2020. hereby appoint the honorable debbie dingell to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. nancy pelosi, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the offered by our chaplain, father conroy. pray.in conroy: let us lord of the universe, father of for giving hank you us another day. as