♪ our campaign 2020 coverage continues with candidates campaigning and debating. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> on friday, joe biden talks about the impact of the economy. coming up in an hour, the bipartisan policy center's john fortier discusses voting systems

ahead of election day 2020. at 9:00 a.m., dr. howard editor-in-chief of the journal of the american medical association discusses the u.s. response to covid-19. ♪ good morning and welcome to "washington journal." camera shootings of african-americans at the hands of police has caused unrest in the united states for the past few years and has turned into a major campaign issue in this year's presidential race. whether it is black lives matter, defund the police or other slogans and movements, how law enforcement relates to the communities they protect is on everyone's minds these days. morning,ion to this what is your view of law enforcement in your community? we are going to open up regional lines.

that means if you are in the eastern or central time zone, you have a telephone number. you are in the mountain and , you have a zones number. and if you are law enforcement watching this morning, we want to know what you are seeing and hearing. we have a special line for you. keep in mind, you can always text us. and we are always reading on social media on twitter and facebook. again, our conversation this morning is going to be about how you think law enforcement is doing in your community. what is your view of law enforcement? this comes as we are going through another state of unrest in the united states. even most recently, there was

another release of a video out wherehester, new york, seven police officers from rochester were suspended on thursday. i will read you a couple of paragraphs. the man was having a psychotic episode, handcuffed by police and officers when he ran through the street, naked in the middle of the night and told at least one passerby that he had the coronavirus. he began spitting and the officers responded by pulling up a mesh hood over his head. when he tried to rise, the officers forced him facedown on the ground, one of them pushing his head to the ground. he was held down by the police for two minutes and had to be resuscitated. he died a week later at the hospital. once again, we are having all of these videos and the reaction around the country. like i said earlier, it is becoming an issue in the presidential campaign.

did an interview with a pittsburgh tv station earlier this week pushing back on those who have been saying that he wants to defund the police. former vice president biden had to say. i'm not only>> >> want to defund the police, i want to add $300 million to their local budgets to deal with policing communities. every cop has a right to expect to be able to go home at night and be able to be safe. host: once again, we want to know what you think, but let's see what president trump has set about this issue as well. here is president trump from earlier this week talking about the issue of policing and his opponent. [video clip] >> the rioters that want biden to win want him to win because their agenda is the craziest

thing i have ever seen. they both want to cut funding for police, they want to end the cash bail, higher far-left prosecutors and judges who let the criminals run wild. the radical left district attorney in portland, mike schmidt, has released hundreds of rioters that have announced that anyone arrested for interfering with police officers, disorderly conduct, criminal trespassing, rioting and other offenses will not be prosecuted under any circumstances. it's worse. you have somebody in philadelphia who is worse. worse. it is a manifesto with bernie sanders. host: let's go to the phone lines and see what you think. what is the view of law enforcement in your community? let's start with jamaica, new york.

are you in law enforcement? caller: good morning. i am. it is very difficult to go out when you haveb the president throwing the fuel at it. it is very difficult. it is a very difficult task to put on a badge, go into a community and say i am here to help. we are and we are going to help, but we cannot have someone throw flames that it. it sounds nice, but we go into these communities and try to do the best we can, but we need help from our prosecutors. we need help from our politicians, our political activists. it is a community thing. it is very difficult. that is all i have to say. host: let me ask you this question. have you seen a change in perception for police over the last few years? caller: that is a very good

word. perception, yes, but it has to be reality. chief manw york, the is trying his best to do community policing. he is going out there with bookbags for schools, for kids. these are things you need to see in the community. you need to see police out there giving out goodies for the kids and community, going out to the elderly. these are things you need to see, not to hear rioting and throwing bottles. that is not what we need to see on television. we need to see the police engaging. that is important. host: since you are in law enforcement, tell us your suggestions. how do we fix this perception, change things to where the community's trust of police and the police trust of the communities? caller: that is very difficult because you can't have two sides saying different things.

you can't have someone throwing flames on someone trying to ease the pain. it can't work. everyone has to be together. it is not an easy answer or an easy fix. jeff froms go to indianapolis. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. as far as my relationship with law enforcement, i support law enforcement 100%. we ask them to do a very dangerous job. they have to go into some of the worst communities in our cities and provide safety to the residence. we are going to have police officers that go over the line and do stuff wrong. that happens in any organization. officers get up every day and put on their uniform and badge and go out there and try to do the best job they possibly can do for the citizens who pay their salary.

and, because of the rhetoric going on because of some of this activism out here, we have now created a view of distressed among law enforcement officers. officersaw enforcement because in the end, the real threat to most people and most communities is not law enforcement, it is the criminals. thate need to understand and quit looking up police officers as the enemy. every time i see a cop on the street, i walk up and shake their hand for the job they do. host: let's go to joe calling from georgia. good morning. caller: thank you very much. i'm thrillednd steve is going to be the

moderator for the second debate. we have a great law enforcement department here in georgia. i think law enforcement is going to be the big issue, and i think president trump is going to wind with the biggest landslide in history. i think law enforcement plus the economy is going to give president trump a huge landslide win. i am so fired up about president trump, i have a tough time sleeping at night. enforcement, in my city, we have a great sheriff and police department. host: let me ask you this question. those policed out officers we see doing these things on film? i agree with you, and i think everybody will agree with you that the majority of police officers are great people. in fact, they live in our communities and our neighbors. how do we weed out those that

keep doing these things on these videos? to first of all screen them when you interview them and hire them. check their background. see if they have had any problems. ask people in the community, what do you think about the different police officers? if someone is getting a lot of complaints, then probably, they ought to investigate that and he or she is not doing a good job, you need to fire them. that is what you do and that is what they are doing here in my .ity in my opinion, i think we have the finest police officers serifs in the u.s. host: let's go to chris calling from washington, d.c. caller: good morning. don't think that we need to but i reallylice,

believe the resources need to be reallocated and their funds don't need to be increased. i hate what the president is doing. this whole law and order rhetoric he is spewing and he goes about breaking law and order every time we turn around, you have got guys on his administration that have committed crimes and admitted to committed crimes and have been found guilty. yet, instead of letting the system go through the process, he finds it necessary to intervene or have his ag intervene. let me say this also. every police officer across the country should have a body camera. i can give you an instance that just happened. in d.c., we just had a man killed by the police in northeast d.c.. this happened september 3. people were upset about it. there was an officer who killed a black man.

however, the bodycam exonerated clearly the officer. i hate anyone to get shot and killed in any way whatsoever, but the bodycam showed that the guy, regardless of whether he was trying to cockle again or whatever, he moved the gun. you go to jacob blake in wisconsin, there is nothing that shows anything except for the cell phone footage. they haven't released the report because they know that something is wrong with what they did. but if they had a body camera and wanted to say something different, the body camera, if they were truly innocent, would exonerate them. host: you are here in washington, d.c., so am i, let's talk about the metropolitan police department. they have a really tough job here because they have to deal with protests and marches on a regular basis in addition to having to deal with all of the tourists that come through in

addition to dealing with the people that live here. how do we make sure our relationship with the police department, and this is important because most if not all police officers out on the street are armed and have weapons that can kill you. how do we make sure our relationship with the police is a good relationship? caller: i think that is up to the police. this is what i am talking about when i say i don't want to defund them, but they should reallocate the resources. they need additional training and they need to be more in the community without making themselves feel like a threatening presence. they don't have a good mpd doesn't, tehhe have a good relationship with the community. there are definitely good cops out there, but like most black saw cops the other day. i spoke to them and they spoke

back. it was a pleasant exchange, but you don't get that generally because there is this thing that some police officers carry where it is like, i am the authority, i'm not here to protect and serve you. i'm here to protect and serve this business or these certain people. they need to change the way they approach the citizens. host: let's go to anthony calling from arizona. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to share what i have shared with my locals here and with my county sheriff's department. there's a book written by a police officer called "tactical reload." there is an additional book called "life is in the transitions." the essence of "tactical

reload," is that just like every individual should strive to be better today than they were yesterday, meaning that every day an officer builds up a certain amount of deposits in community policing. they learn a little bit more. at the same time, when fellow officers do not recognize that some of their peers and some of their senior officers can be a cancer on the professionalism of "life andand then in transitions," we all have to understand that every day, we lose something in ourselves that tomorrow could be better. we have to find out how to bridge that gap. money tofood, drinks,

all my first responders here in my city and county, but the most important thing is, i let them know how i feel. pat callinggo to from austin, texas. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to share that i for the police and community to have better relationships and better outcomes, there has got to be a change in the thought process. some of these thoughts, good and bad, have been ingrained in people until we see it coming out. blacks don't trust police and some police don't trust blacks. in any relationship, you have to build trust. i do believe it is on the police

department to get more involved in the community, likely caller before that was sharing. give more in the community. hold forums. we are starting to do some of that even in the faith-based community in austin with our police departments. have coffee with people. let's have more town hall be angs where there can communication going on antitrust buildup. i don't believe in defunding the police. deal withve that they a lot of things they probably don't need to deal with. respect, like mental health issues, they are not doctors. they are policeman. they are not nurses, they are policemen. believe the thought process has got to change in order for us to see better interactions on our streets. relationship the

-- how is the relationship between the often police and austin community? i always have a great time when i am there. what is the relationship like in austin? caller: it is not good at it has not been good and a long time. we have some pretty good police chiefs. now, they aree calling to have him fired. i don't believe that is the answer. i just think we have to change how people think. sometimes, that has to come from god, to be honest with you. how people think, what is in their heart will dictate how they react and behave in situations. trump stopped in latrobe, pennsylvania last night and talked to a campaign crowd about the rioting that has been going on in the united states, and some of the destruction that has happens. here is a little bit. "washington journal

>> as far-left writers viciously attract -- attack democrat cities and recently marched through the cities chanting "death to america," this is what we have. by the way, we could end it immediately. you saw what we did in wisconsin. [applause] it took a while for the governor. to have to ask us in. it is like otherwise, we have to do something much bigger. the national guard is fantastic. i went to see them two days ago. biden went there today, there is nobody there. he was a little late. i was going to say, listen, we ended that problem. but we could ended in portland. wiseguys in portland, anarchists, agitators, looters. we could end it in portland in

half an hour. we did it in seattle. we told them we are coming in. you either end it or we are coming in. they ended it in seattle. they took over 20% of the city, and the mayor said, it is going to be a summer of love. these people are crazy. we ended them very quickly. now, what we are doing is holding back funds for cities that don't know what they are doing where they allow crime to run rampant. host: let's go see what some of our social media followers are saying about their view of law enforcement in their communities. here is a text that came in that says, why are so many of the so-called good cops so violent on the abuse of fellow officers? tear down the blue wall.

here is another text that says, the cops here seem like decent and fair-minded people. that is how it should be across the country. the majority of cops are good people, but there are some that should never even be in the police force. recruiting needs to be seriously changed and higher only those really who want to protect and serve, not stop unnecessarily and harass or worse, shoot and kill just because they can. also, trump pours gas onto the flames by stirring up eight and division with his rhetoric. here is another text that says, local policing is not a federal responsibility and shouldn't be a subject of political dialogue at the national level. congress should find other things to do with taxpayer receipts. contestants for the white house job should but out altogether. another text that says, i am a trained ford we almost a decade to learn how to save lives. policing should train for at

least half that amount of time before they should be at least to take a life -- for they should be allowed to take a life. safeer text says, i feel around police officers knowing they risk their own security to protect us. i wish they weren't so strict about minor traffic infractions. once again, we want to know your view of law enforcement in your community. once again, we are opening up a special line for law enforcement. i want to know what you are seeing and what you are hearing and what you think the perception of law enforcement is in your community. let's go back to our phone lines and talk to mark from silver spring, maryland. caller: good morning. i really want to talk about the flip-flopping of biden. he keeps saying he is not going

to defund the police. on the other hand, he said he is going to do it. the point is that, if you look you lookat run states, at republican run states, i'm a black man. i think most of the cases that happen, in some cases, you see that people always try to resist. when you resist, you can be a good and nice police officer. really people should be -- when a police officer pull you over, look at exactly what happened to mr. blake. police stopped him. you can see him walking. that is a horrible sight to behold on video. only he would have stopped

and followed simple instruction, we wouldn't have the situation. i want to ask, what has joe biden, after 47 years in washington, what has he done being on legislation to be able to help the black communities? this is a white privilege man. he is a democrat and has been there for all these years. what has he really done for black communities? one single thing? can you please help me on that? host: let's go to chestertown, maryland. caller: good morning. i'm so glad you are asking these questions. i, myself, have i believe a wonderful relationship with the police officers in my town. we have state troopers that are stationed here, sheriff's, and also the city police.

if you are that officers to the police and you follow their orders, you don't have any reason to be fearful for your life if you are following the instructions that are given to you. perfect.ll of them are yes, some step over the line and not everyone.t is host: how do we get those who step over the line and who kill people unjustly out of the police force? all agree that most police officers, the majority, i would even say the vast majority of police officers don't step across the line and they do the job as it is supposed to be done. how do we get rid of the ones who don't? caller: i think that one avenue

that should be checked out is to have mental capability tests can donot something they if they want to and not if they don't. there needs to be some sort of mental balance that comes in. ,hen people lose their temper they are subject to do all kinds of things. the police officers are no different. host: i would say the big difference is that police officers are armed and they can take your life if they lose their temper. i have seen comments on what about bad doctors and bad teachers? they are not armed. police officers are armed and if they lose their temper, they can take your life. caller: that is true, but the is if they don't lose

startental capacity to with, they are less likely to lose the gun on their hip. together.d to work one pulling this direction and one pulling that, all you get is a distorted ring around the situation being pulled to the point of where it has to break somewhere. i believe if we just kind of remember that we are all in this together, it doesn't make any difference what color your skin is. we are all in this together. host: let's go to las vegas, nevada. caller: hi, how are you? host: just fine, go ahead. caller: about four years ago, i was walking across the street to the local convenience store to buy some beer.

it was very cold and i was flailing my arms basically doing like isometrics with my hands and arms. the cops behind me saw me and i looked a little out of whack so they turned their lights on and pulled me over. can you put your hands on the hood? i said sure. do you mind if we search you? i said no. were having a problem with crystal meth in this neighborhood that i live in. they searched me. everything checked out. is, if i was indignant and perhaps combative in my vocabulary to them, they would have changed their town, but i was very compliant and i think that has a lot to do with everything. if you are very compliant to the police and if you are guilty of

nothing, they are going to let you go. host: what do you say to the people who have had historically bad relationships with police? i am a southerner and i can tell you that in the past, the police department was not friends to people in the community. they were the enforcers of segregation. what do you say to people who have grown up with that type of relationship with the police? caller: and i do feel for them. i feel their pain and i just believe things have got to get better, but i also believe if you comply with the police and do what they ask you to do, pretty much, no harm will come to you. that is my belief. host: let's go to bob in mount pleasant. good morning. caller: good morning. host: you are in mount pleasant, michigan, correct? caller: that is correct.

the problem is not whether there are good cops or bad cops. the problem is the police system. the fact that there is a police chief in minneapolis that said 10% of the people he fires for bad conduct are back on the force because of arbitration. it is not a matter of training or hiring. you have to change the system. police unions are what run the police forces all over this country. they support and protect anybody. derek chauvin, i bet you, has a whole lot of complaints against him. he was allowed to stay on the force and killed somebody. a matter of it is the system itself. it is not a matter of hiring, training, hiring more black cops. it is a matter of what the rules are. the police unions set the rules. we have to do away with these union contracts. whenu said, the fact is,

you have a bad teacher, somebody dies. except maybe some physicians might kill you, but the fact is, the police unions -- and you cannot expect good cops to turn on bad cops because when they are in a situation that is very hostile, the good cop has got to protect the back of the backup. it is a brotherhood. they have to stay together. until you change the way the unions work and they protect everybody's job numb out or whether they are good or bad, we are going to have this problem. it is not a matter of people being nice, whether they are godly or whatever, it is not even a matter of whether they are good or bad. it is a system that rules their behavior. host: let's go to wendy. we lost wendy. let's go to gary in connecticut. caller: good morning.

i am in my 70's. one comment i recall growing up in the inner-city, there were beat cops. they were people that you got to liken no. we trusted them. today, you have police operating out of vehicles that have no relationship to the community. that, in itself, creates a dangerous situation. i'm not saying we should eliminate police and squad cars, but we should put more of an emphasis back on police walking the beat and getting to know the neighborhood, getting to know the people in the neighborhood where the problems are. host: today, they call that community policing. caller: they do, but there isn't that much of it anymore. was a tremendous thing for the police to get to know their community and walk in their community.

you can't operate from the isolation of a squad car and expect to be affected in a community. host: once again, this has been an issue that is now being talked about in the presidential race between president donald trump and former vice president joe biden. they are putting out campaign commercials around what has been happening with police and in the united states over the last few months. i'm going to show you their most recent campaign commercials on this issue back to back. here are the latest campaign commercials around this issue. [video clip] >> lawless criminals terrorize minneapolis. joe biden takes any. biden andesponse from radicals has led to chaos and violence. their calls for defunding police have made it worse. president trump is making it stop, making crucial federal

resources available to protect minnesota's families. communities, not criminals. jobs, not mobs. strong leadership when america needs it most. [video clip] americans wake up knowing they could lose their life in the course of just living their life? >> the hardest point of freedom is to be free from brutality and injustice and racism and all of its manifestations. >> we have to let people know that we not only understand their struggle, but they understand the fact that they deserve to be treated with dignity. they have got to know we are listening. reforming policing means creating a national standard on use of force and conditioning federal funds for police reforms on adoption of that standard. it is about raining and qualified immunity that would hold police officers accountable. >> now is the time for racial justice.

i believe with every fiber in my being we have such an opportunity now to change people's lives for the better. it is about who we are, what we believe and most importantly, who we want to be. let's go back to our social media followers and see what they are saying about the view of law enforcement in their communities. one text says police and deputies need a minimum aas degree and increase in starting pay. social media checks should be part of the vetting process prior to hiring. these are gone for most other jobs. here is another text that says, the police in general have become too big for their britches. when i was in the service, i was subject to my commanders and the u.s. people. the cops are subject to the american people. we needone that says, ways to humanize the badge.

says, i'm a former inmate from baltimore, maryland. take it from me, i have seen the people in jail. we need cops. you could not live anywhere near baltimore if there wasn't cops. it is like a war zone with them. imagine how bad it would be without them. once again, we are talking to you today about your view of law enforcement in your country. we have had a lot of conversations from our police, a lot of conversation from our politicians about the unrest that has happened in the united states over the last few months. there is a story in the washington post today that talks about some of what has happened that i want to bring to you. this story talks about a report that has tracked unrest in the u.s. "about 93% of the racial justice protest that's what the united states this summer remained

peaceful and nondestructive according to a report released thursday. with the violence and property damage constituting only a minute portion of the thousands of demonstrations that followed the killing of george floyd in may. the report produced by the nonprofit armed conflict location and event data project also concluded that an escalation in the government response to protests and a sharp uptake in extremist activity means the u.s. have -- faces a growing risk of political violence and instability ahead of the 2020 election." once again, i want to know what you think about law enforcement in your community. let's go back to our phone lines and let's talk to keith from massachusetts. good morning. caller: how are you today? host: i am great, go ahead. caller: i apologize, i am losing my voice. comment was, you

never know a police officers going to kill somebody until that day. it is pretty hard to see which ones are good and bad, but it seems to me like a lot of people are just snapping because of everything going on lately. police snapping, people snapping. i hope they straighten it out. to bringt can we do down the violence? what can we do to bring down the tempers, took all everybody off? just calm it down before you start talking. you can't let it keep going. nice for democrats to say something, but they are not being very assertive about it. host: let's talk to linda from

pensacola, florida. they are talking about wanting to take money away from the police officers. if they do, they are taking body cams away, the narcan or whatever they use for drug overdoses. i do not know everything they carry on them, but they are going to be taking these things away from them. i guess that is what they want? i would think they would want them to have more equipment, so it would be better for everybody. if you obey the law, nothing is going to happen. i mean, just of a the law and you won't have this. but people don't know how to obey the law now. did, back inthey the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's. now, they don't. host: i'm going to have to disagree with you a little bit because i'm a southerner and i know for a fact, if you are black and obey the law in the south, it didn't help you with the police.

that is some of the historical distrust we know and we have still been talking about today. especially back in 1950's, 1960's and 1970's, there was specifically a reason why there was not trust in the police department. caller: i'm from the north, but i have lived in florida since 1970. i have not seen anything like that. even in 1962 when i was in norfolk, virginia, i didn't see anything like that. i don't know where i was out in norfolk. i was on beach boulevard, i had the ocean in my backyard. it was the main way to go to whatever that other navy installation is there. i just never seen anything like that. i'm not racist, i don't have any prejudices, but i think if you listen to the police and obey them, then nothing will happen. i had a ticket one time and i had to go to court and i wasn't guilty. but if i was, i would have had

to pay the penalty. you are not saying that because you didn't see it, it didn't happen, right? caller: what didn't happen, the accident? host: what i am saying is that just because you didn't see violence from police in the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's, you are not saying it didn't happen? caller: no. it might have happened, i just didn't see it. i was just saying i was in our full kit in 1962 and never saw anything there. jacksonville and pensacola since the 1970's. i have been here 30 years. i haven't seen anything like that where i was. i went to restaurants and stuff and i never seen anybody being turned away is all i can say. host: let's go to marsha from texas. caller: good morning.

i am a southern black woman. . was with a black friend polite andas very compliant and the police officer was shouting names that my friend didn't even recognize. my friend might well have been dead today if the policeman there were two white people in the car with him. friendswo other white who have been in similar situations. if people want to know what to do about this, tell them to read the george floyd bill that has already been passed by the house. thethe senate to pass it, president to sign it and and attorney general who will implement it.

have community review boards, have a nationwide debate so bad cops don't get rehired somewhere else. parameters on what .hey can do i am sure there are other rules. but begin with the george floyd act. host: let's go to steve in illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. we don't have much of a problem here. it is a small town. if we have a problem with an officer repeatedly, the town board simply vote them out of office and they are done. there is anote, officer at our school during school hours that plays with the

children. it is a good situation. the children grow up respecting them and liking them. we just don't have those issues here. those unions -- i was a steelworker for 30 years. they protect the good and the bad to the bitter end, regardless, and that is just wrong. news today, we are going to be having the continuation of the presidential campaigns. today, joe biden talks about the impact of the pandemic on the economy at an event in wilmington, delaware. live coverage begins here on c-span at 12:15 eastern. you can watch it here at c-span, online and on the free c-span radio app. in other political news, senator lindsey graham, the chair of the senate judiciary committee, will discuss the role of judges in the federal judiciary with the south carolina chapter of the

federalist society. live coverage of that begins at 2:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span, c-span.org and always on the free c-span radio app. aboutgain, we are talking the view of law enforcement in your community. we will go back to the phone lines and let's talk to brian from texas. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say that all of this talk about reforming police and training for police, but nobody has mentioned education for our younger generation. that seems to be the major problem. why not teach in schools how to act with the police when you get your drivers license. why don't they teach you then how to act if you get pulled over? everyone of these cases i have seen, they are resisting. they are not following orders. of course, it is going to happen.

all i have to say is just learn how to act. host: what exactly should we be telling our children? caller: how to act. tell how to act is easy, us exactly what you're talking about. caller: obey the law. whenever you get pulled over, don't resist. don't talk back. be respectful. host: what should we do with police who, when people do comply, still shoot or damage them anyway? caller: that is a problem and that needs to be dealt with. there needs to be more reform and better training, of course, but that is both sides. it is not a one-sided deal. host: let's go to jerry calling from fredericksburg, virginia. caller: the police here in down.icksburg have laid

while they are fabulous people, i don't think i would do what i am supposed to do either. you take it in the knees all the time not matter what you do. they don't make enough money. if you can drive as fast as you want and do basically whatever you want, that is just my view. certainly never see anybody get in trouble for doing what they do. i don't think police need to be with the government. i think they need to be subcontractors just like the. -- vdot. they get 10 times more work done and it is far more quality involved in it. it is horrible what is going on with the police. they are basic people and take it in the knees and don't make enough money. they get ridiculed all the time. their children probably are subconscious about it. it is just a ridiculous

situation that has been going on for all of my life. i am 60 plus years old. all i can basically say is that -- the guy that got shot seven times in the back, that needs to and of thoseed, police officers just shot him in about, they need to be eliminated. there needs to be accountability for all people that do horrible things. you can get as mad as you want, you don't shoot somebody seven times in the back with their children watching. asy need to be eliminated human lifeforms forms for doing something like that. accountability, you wouldn't have that go on with others because it is just shocking and crazy what is going on around here anyway. i talked to long. thanks for taking my call. host: let's talk to kenneth from charleston, south carolina. caller: good morning.

i agree with the gentleman from texas. and retired law enforcement i feel like if you look at all of these cases that we have had involving resisting if you don't, resist, we won't have the end result. host: how long were you on the police force? city, 25even years years federal. host: were you are a law officer in charleston proper or one of the outlying cities? in the seven years back 1970's in charleston city. to change do we do the perception of law enforcement in some of these communities? as i said earlier, being a southerner, i know the

perception of law enforcement among committees of color because of the law enforcement's traditional role in the past of being one of the enforcers of segregation. how do we now change those perceptions of law enforcement and how they relate to those communities? earlier, it i said is not so much the police -- police officers don't go out on the job and say, i'm going to look for a black man to kill. it don't work like that. a lot of these young kids, mostly young in their 20's, first of all, they don't like police officers to start with. if you don't like police, they don't want to be stopped. when they get stopped, like i said, basically, all you have to do is abide by rules and regulations. yes sir, yes ma'am, no sir, no ma'am. time,d think 95% of the

you will go back home to your loved ones. theou have an attitude with police, automatically, and most of these people that are being stopped have rackets. -- records. is, i encourage people around me, do not resist. yes sir, yes ma'am. you can go back home to your loved ones. it is a simple formula. host: i think most of us would agree that you are right. ok.of the time, you will be how do we get rid of the 5%? caller: 5% comes back down to policeman. policeman don't go out there and say, i'm looking for a black man to kill today. it don't work like that. like i said, one reaction usually causes another.

the main thing is, if you do not start something, there won't be anything to follow up on. host: i'm trying to get from you, someone who was in law enforcement, how do we get rid dothose few officers, what we do about those few officers who are stepping across the line? is there nothing we can do about those? caller: i hear you, but i think you are missing my point. they are not stepping across the line. what they are doing is they are reacting to an action. if you don't have an action, there won't be a reaction. host: you don't think there are any bad police officers out there? caller: not the way it is being portrayed. host: ok. caller: we are talking about these shooting incidents. if you look back at all of these shooting incidents, it started with a person being stopped for whatever reason, and they resisted.

if you don't resist, we would not get the aftereffect. that is the point i am trying to say. host: let's go to guam. i totally probably mispronounced that. tell me where you are. caller: you did well right there. something i have always tried to put in place here, when a person has to qualify to be a police oricer or public servant, law enforcement servant, the requirements, and i'm not too sure if this is in, but i really feel they have to go through a mental, psychological

questionnaire or a system that would qualify them. the questions they would involve are all of these things that are going on with the good and bad on the issues we are facing today. going throughthat a lie detector, if anything, so that that is a start already for a person. you can make the judgment pretty much on what that type of person .s whether they are social activity, short tempered, all of these things on an individual to make sure that person carries out law and order in the right way. we wereas growing up, always taught and always believed that when you see a cop, we feel so happy and good

and safe that we go up to them and talk to them anyway. areuse of those things that not happening today, i honestly believe that we should go through some kind of a system for qualifying law enforcement individuals. either we do it before they fully qualify, and then do a semi-or annual qualification on that issue. it is going to cost something, but we cannot put a price on doing the right thing. host: let's go to randy from chicago heights, illinois. caller: good morning. i have two questions. one was, i live in a small town and i tell you what, our police officers are great. they are wonderful. i got pulled over twice, and i tell you what, i did everything

the officer told me to do. put your hands on the steering wheel, and it was for a taillight out, and he gave me a warning on that because i was respectful. respect is a thing we are losing in this country. another one was going through a red light photo camera. he actually gave me a warning on that because i applied everything i had to do. say,ther thing i wanted to you mentioned twice about your life a long time ago that it didn't work, that you have problems and stuff like that. that was way back then. we can't keep talking about way back then. have you ever had any problems now? host: we are not going to talk about that because we try not to talk about those kind of personal things on the air. caller: you have to answer that question. host: randy, one of the things i keep trying to say over and over is that the problem with

perception in some communities comes from the historical actions of the police. caller: but that was a long time ago. now, have you had any problems in the last 10 years with a police officer? host: once again, i won't talk about that because that is a very long story. caller: you asked another person about that. host: let's go to ken in arizona. caller: good morning. i generally support the police everywhere. i believe they have got an almost impossible job right now in the inner cities with what is going on. police are leaving because of the defunding movement. actually, some of the best police are leaving because they don't have support. i think one of the things that really hurts is all of the

cameras we have on the streets today. they take a picture, say george floyd for instance, they take a picture of him, what was going on there, and then the rioting starts before the investigation is even order -- over. black people are killed, rioting, looting, burning. host: would you believe the things you are seeing in the videos happened if there weren't videos? caller: yes, i would. i think what i saw on george floyd was not what they are portraying at first wasn't really the truth necessarily because the investigation is still not over. i'm not even sure they can convict those people of murder because of what we found out later. i think he was on drugs. host: how do you know that? caller: from the reports. they tested him. he was on fentanyl and another

drug which causes people to be very violent. one thing i noticed in the case also was an ambulance had already been called for the man. they were restraining him. the second video that came out, which nobody saw until later after all of the rioting, and other people lost their lives because of it, even police officers, was that he was resisting. he was saying i can't breathe when he was standing up. that is a symptom of the drugs he was on. host: let's go to ken calling from washington, d.c. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. been in the police.

i don't know what type of training he went under. decision-making. [indiscernible] officers are supposed to be held to a higher standard. each officer is taught to de-escalate. you cannot take it personally. spitting at you, cussing, whatever they are doing, you don't take it personally. [indiscernible] you are there to protect and serve. thank ourould like to callers. beginsup, early voting today in north carolina with several states not far behind.

we will be right back. ♪ >> the contenders. the men who ran for the presidency and lost but changed political history. tonight, george wallace. the contenders, this week at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. sunday night on q&a, pamela constable talks about her experience. >> people will say things,

critical of the west. than someonecommon saying something offensive about being a woman. people seem to be, thinking broadly, more helpful to a woman than to a man. they can take advantage of you in various ways. generally, my experience has been if they are not going to like something about you, it is not going to be because you are a woman. it is because you are american. q&a.nday night on c-span's >> washington journal continues. joined byre back and the governmental studies director of the bipartisan policy center and he is going to talk with us about voting systems.

thank you for joining us. guest: good morning. we have been having these conversations over and over the summer. what is the difference between mail-in voting and absentee? guest: there is no perfect definition. ways. them in different broadly, there are different pools of the way in which we might vote a valid -- ballot. states that only want to get ballots to people who really have an excuse. they have a requirement on them.

on the other end of the -- an outlet for only those who need it -- [indiscernible] state starting the process. north carolina will be the first state to send out absentee ballots today, september 4. minnesota will be the first

allowto allow -- state to in person voting. what is the reason for starting early? advice is toece of know your own state rules and laws. [indiscernible] you if you are worried about your ballot .etting there .heck your voter registration if you need to request a ballot, request it early. if you're going to vote by mail, get it in earlier. states that require that by like today. there are challenges getting it there. starting early, knowing early, also, if you're going to a polling place, knowing where

that is, perhaps going there as well. those are things voters can do, no matter what the rules are in their state. go ahead and make sure there've -- host: you wrote the book on the subject. you have studied this subject. do you have concerns about absentee or the early voting process in the u.s. now? concerns withre every part of the voting system normally. things that could be better. voters can help by being proactive. there are challenges from covid. more people will be looking to vote by mail this time. many states and administrators

have changed laws and rules to allow that. is willwhat your system help mitigate problems. problems with states not processing ballots as quickly as expected. the process would be longer. if you want to ensure your ballot gets counted and does not miss the deadline, getting it in early would be helpful. there are issues. issues withtegrity parts of the voting system. there are access issues. there, the administrators are doing the best they can in a difficult situation. host: our viewers can take part in this conversation. we will open up special lines.

if you plan to early vote, i want to hear from you. what are your plans? how do you plan to early vote? male in or in person? person?in or in (202)-748-8000. if you plan to wait and vote on election day, i want to know what your plans are, how you plan to vote. for those of you voting on election day, your number is (202)-748-8001. mail,'re going to vote by i know there are several states that require you to vote by mail, tell us of your experience. your number for voting by mail is (202)-748-8002. one last line. if you don't intend to vote at all for this upcoming election, we want to know why. we have a special line for those

who don't plan to vote, (202)-748-8003. once again, early voters, (202)-748-8000. election day voters, (202)-748- 8001. mail invoters -- voters, (202)-748-8002. nonvoters, (202)-748-8003. you can always text at (202)-748-8003. i'm still reading on social and ontwitter, @cspanwj facebook.com/cspan. john, with all the talk of the pandemic, we are expecting a large number of early voters. early votinglain every year. i have had to vote on election day every year. will this cause any stress on

the system in getting votes counted and letting us know who wins the election? guest: there are significant challenges. states are having to deal with a flood of voters. they not necessarily to have the workers they want. many of them will deal with more ballots coming in. some systems are changed dramatically and how they count. there could be issues. people have mentioned the possibility that we will not know the results of the election on election day. i am not as negative as some. it depends how close the election is and certainly, the states. there is more pressure this time on the postal service and accounting period. if we get a large number of

ballots coming in by mail, later than usual, dealing with new systems counting them, perhaps at a slower rate, with legal challenges and recounts, we can see how that can stretch out postelection. with all the votes, there is a likelihood we will take longer. if it is not closing many key states, we may know the election results soon after. if it is razor thin, we will place more problems. host: let's let some of our viewers join in. carolina,cing, north he will early vote. caller: morning. i'm going to vote early, when the polls open. i will be online. -- in line.

i don't trust this mail in system. [indiscernible] 175 miles away, days from the postal service to do everything -- [indiscernible] they have got it screwed up. they don't care now. [indiscernible] we are hurting. carolina --in north [indiscernible] summer homes, then they go back and vote in the state where they are from. they vote twice right there. it is something that needs to be changed. .ost: go ahead, john guest: it may be helpful to lay out terminology on early voting.

voting is in person different by voting by mail and is different than voting on election day. [indiscernible] they have sites where you can -- [indiscernible] -- that has risen dramatically over the years. voting by mail has also risen dramatically. 25%. those numbers have been going up steadily. number will goil up again this year. system, wewe are a don't have one big national registration list. the states have made great progress within of creating databases where they know john

smith in this county, if this is the same person, we don't have them on the list twice. states have started to share info through programs. cases, typically a small number of people voting twice. i do not think it is a widespread problem. we are moving toward being able to fix that. we don't have a perfect system because states are different. host: i will try to help our viewers. i have voting times and deadlines. in north carolina, you have until october 27 to request an application for an absentee vote. early voting states, october 15 to october 31 and your mail-in ballot dates will be, that has

to be postmarked november 3 at 5 p.m. steve, anaheim, california. good morning. are you there? caller: there you are. good morning. before i go on my rant, i would like to commend c-span for excellent coverage. your programs, the contenders, tv, court review cases, has been very insightful/enjoyable. host: thank you. caller: you are welcome. --ould like to congratulate [indiscernible] scully for being the moderator for the presidential debate.

will jump on my pepe here. -- pet peeve here. if you want absentee voting, i have no problem. four states to willy-nilly -- for states to willy-nilly send qualifications to vote, yeah, i have a problem. this year, i received two ballots in the mail from california. this will kick me off the roll s. personll me if i vote in and they have already mailed me voter cards, i will not be able to vote in person. i'mll find on voting day, not doing good on my explanation but that is the problem i have.

i can text you the ballots i received for the primary to show you i am not lying. people that have no idea, they register their dogs, they don't live at these addresses. there is a big problem. going back to the history of this, for a long time in the states that allow people requested ballots -- [indiscernible] -- that have requirements of witnesses, there are still states like that. northwest, washington and oregon have moved in the last 15 years.

that is a very different system. i think the states that have done that early, washington, oregon, colorado -- they thought about these things and try to work on them. it is important to have a clean voter registration list, for example. you want to make sure your mail-in ballots to those who are registered voters. some of the states moving to this short-term have challenges to make sure they are doing it well. ultimately, things will go reasonably well. if there are significant challenges to the way one sometimes, you, can vote in person but you also have a mail-in ballot. you have to figure out how to deal with that.

typically, they check you off the list if you show up in person. perhaps, they will have you cast a provisional ballot, that they will deal with later. matterse complicated states will have to wrestle with. with all the change, there will be some working out of the system over time. trump talkednt about this very issue recently. his stop at the wilmington international airport, we will play you what he said in north carolina. i don't like that. they will vote. if it tabulates, they won't be able to do that. let them send it in.

let them vote. if there system is as good as they say it is -- if it is not tabulated, they will be able to vote. that is the way it is. i don't like the idea of these unsolicited votes. i never did. it leads to problems. they have problems already. i'm not happy about it. at the same time, we are in court. we will see if it can be stopped. send in your ballots. send the men, solicited or unsolicited -- send them in, solicited or unsolicited. go to vote. --they have not counted it that is the way i view it. host: he has verified he does not mean people should vote twice. if you vote early or absentee vote and you want to be sure your vote is counted, what do

you do? guest: no one should attempt to vote twice. there are questions about people wanteded, you mentioned, to know if they have their vote counted or people who have forgotten their going to do so. in a number of states, you can track your absentee ballot through the state website. that is not true everywhere. you can get in touch with your local election official. they are more likely to provide that info. if you go to the polling place and you have an outstanding, there is likely to be some .rocedure whether it is a live computer perhapsthe database or

if the state does not know for sure, they might ask you to cast a provisional ballot in an envelope that they will figure out after the election, to make sure only one of your vote counts. these are difficult things. they are different everywhere. there is some confusion. checking with your state, if it has capacity to tell you whether your vote has come in or accepted, that is a possibility for some. forgot to tell our california voters, you can apply for absentee by mail or in person, the deadline will be october 27. beginning of early in person voting, october 5. the mail-in ballot deadline has to be postmarked november 3. baltimore, maryland, who is

not going to vote. good morning. caller: good morning. funny, when i was in seventh grade, they talked about the electoral college. glad to see it is getting the attention it needs. i have never voted for president. i don't see the point. [indiscernible] aside from the fact, i think both candidates are subpar. i will take your comments. thanks. host: electoral college. another book on the electoral college, there is a new edition coming out. the electoral college has been controversial. polling has been against it for a long time. it is difficult to change. the caller may be referring to

the fact -- [indiscernible] states that are competitive is where the most resources will be spent. there are a lot of things on the ballot. all parts of the electorate still matter. it is a good thing to put up your preference to vote. i don't think the electoral college is the one reason you shouldn't. has strongobviously worry about it. many americans would prefer a different system. races than are more just the presidential race this fall. town,, house, local, mayor, governor, city council, school boards.

there are bigger things going on. i encourage everyone to vote. , youand, this great chart can apply for absentee ballot online, the deadline october 20. the early in person voting date is between october 26 and november 2 and your mail-in ballot deadline will be november 3. john, a question from one of our social media followers. if iterson wants to know is 95% accurate, what can be done that last 5%? i am sure where the number came from. if the commenter is asking about

could there be some ballots not counted? that will be true. there are restrictions in different states, deadlines. there are ways in which voters make mistakes on the ballot, therefore the ballots do not count. we have done a fair amount to remedy that. in florida, 2000, we were looking at things like -- [indiscernible] we don't have those systems anymore. we have many systems in place for error checking. it is a complicated system we have. we have long ballots. people can make mistakes. there will be some mistakes made in the accounting process. i think we are pretty high on the scale. we have done pretty well. checking your voter registration, knowing what the

rules are, knowing where you're going to vote, those are important. after the election, there are things we can talk about to improve registration. i think you should feel confident your vote is likely to be counted if you are voting. host: another question from social media. similar to one i was going to ask. what procedures are in place to protect the chain of custody of a mail-in ballot? guest: it varies from state to state. valid, youyou have a are going to fill it out and put it in an envelope and that envelope will have certain info you have to put on it. it is moretes,

extensive. you might have to provide a reason or a witness. other states, you have to put your name. there is a privacy aspect. once the local officials receive them, typically you have a system of looking/opening the ballot, which is monitored by officials, both parties watching out for the other, making sure no one is represented or not. there are disputes sometimes. may contact you if you have made a mistake and give you the opportunity to correct your ballot with the right requirements.

getting it in on time is important. there are things we can do. a lot of it has to do with the fact that we allow representatives to watch over the system at every step of the way. booths are guarded. there are cameras on them. people from both parties are present. maryland,, columbia, planning to vote by mail. caller: good morning. two reasons why i plan to vote by mail. first of all, i am a hard worker. i don't want to take time off. second thing, as a trump supporter, i voted before at the polls where i live, in a very blue state, there is a certain amount of hostility i face. i have not faced long lines. i suspect it would be this year. three comments. online,rder something

the order is received, i get a message saying the order is received. going,s me where it is when it will be delivered. i don't know why we cannot have tech where when the ballot is received by mail, you get a notice by email it was received and then you go online and look at it and see that it was actually tabulated for the candidates you chose. the second point i wanted to concern there is this about manning the polling places. i am wondering why they cannot take the national guard, young people, healthy, not susceptible to serious problems from covid, why they can't have them man the polling places? the third thing that concerns me the trump voter is

postal union has come out in support of joe biden. we are expecting them to deliver the mail. stories about postal employees who have thrown the mail out because they did not want to go to the trouble of whovering it or employees are prone joe biden, i will throw them out, because i am in a red district and there is a lot of potential trump voters coming in. those are my comments. i would like to hear your response. guest: you can track your ballots in some states. the process has been evolving. on the state go election website and check your ballot coming in, if you requested one. it might tell you it was sent

out or delivered to your house, and then on the way back, that the officials have received it or not. that is possible for a number of jurisdictions. you have to check your own circumstances. national guard, there are significant issues about poll workers. voting in person will be important. early in person, polling places. we are worried we will see a drop-off in workers. some of them have not wanted to show up at the polls. it is a big push to make sure we have capacity. volunteers can do a great by volunteering to be a poll worker in your state. there is room for more permanent employees to take over.

states often have other state workers work on election day, preassigned. a number of states have used the national guard. that is a real option. we have seen it in the primaries. we will see it again in some states where national guard members can be helpful in supplementing the poll workers already there. we will need that capacity in this election because of the difficulties we are facing. the postal union. office is notost going to do these sort of things. individuals take the responsibility seriously. there are safeguards in place. election mail is track much more seriously. it is not subject to the whim of an individual person in the post office.

they are identified, prioritized, logged. there are deals with specific states and their local post office to make sure their ballots get to the right place at the right time. we cannot say there is never a problem but there are universal safeguards in place to ensure postal delivery will be less subject to that. ist: one of our followers asking a follow-up question. with mail-in ballots, do people know from your ballot if you are a democrat or republican on the envelope? guest: generally, no. there are some cases in the primaries where there might be more identification. most states are not going to identify the party you are voting for in the general election. it is not absolutely universal. broadly, they are not going to know which party you are.

know there are different voting rules in every state. my question to you is, should states be more uniform with voting requirements? guest: that is a debate we have had for a very long time. federal level. we have federal voting laws. federal registration laws. several laws about overseas absentee voters. there are some things done at the federal level. the primary responsibility is run at the state and local level. we have great differences. there are probably areas where we could do a little more uniformly. there is a long history of states wanting to do different things. washington and oregon when early to all voting by mail.

that may not be the preference for people on the east coast or in the south. they may prefer that system. it allows for regional differences. it makes our system more complicated than systems around the world but it has virtues in that it allows more preference. host: carol, maryville, washington, voting early. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: hello? hi? host: you are on. go ahead. caller: oh. county, 20, in my miles north of seattle, king county, we have had, they mail us our ballots and we have drop boxes all over the place. you can mail your ballot back

in. i have used the dropbox. that works wonderfully. dropboxes are great big old honking heavy secure things. news, inen some on the populated places, they do not look as heavy-duty. i'm going to vote way earlier because of the things our national government is doing with our post office, getting things delivered and picked up. i will be voting as soon as i get my ballot. ballotso receive those three weeks ahead of time. the dropbox system works wonderfully, especially in these times of the problems with the u.s. mail, because of our national government.

people hoping all the who wanted it to change, what is going on nationally, get out and we cand do it early so get america back to being normal again. carol put her finger on a good feature of many states processes. the dropbox. mailing, youms of don't necessarily have to return it by mail. in states like washington, oregon, colorado, that have done this for a long time, they have a very extensive system of drop boxes. colorado, the majority of people return ballots to the boxes, rather than the male. that is a good option. -- the mail. some states don't have them. some states have put them in more recently. we would not expect those states

to have as extensive systems as the ones out west. they are very secure in washington. many of them are monitored by cameras. it is a good option for people. not missing that deadline. if you get the ballot in the dropbox on election day, that ballot will be counted. perhaps, if the mail is late, closer to election day, you might not have it there in time. drop boxes are a good option. host: for washington state voters, you're all voting by mail. octobern voting date, 26 and your mail-in ballot deadline will be on november 3. to telleak right now you about breaking news about the nation's unemployment rate.

the labor department reported today the unemployment rate economywhile the u.s. added 1.4 million jobs in august. a little bit more. host: the unemployment rate dropped to 8.4% and 1.4 million jobs were added in july. let's get back to the conversation about the voting

process. we will go back to the phones and talk to maria from atlanta, georgia, who is not going to vote. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. 2016r: i didn't vote in and i don't plan to vote. [indiscernible] obama if heote for was running. [indiscernible] it puts people in office to make money. the majority are still suffering. minimum wage in georgia. [indiscernible] no free education, no health care. [indiscernible] i'm not voting anymore.

i encourage people to vote. i think it is important. vote is notour necessarily going to change the world in ways you always want. people on the ballot for many levels of government. sometimes you don't love either one. which one would be the closest or the lease worst? that is also an option. again, i know our rate of voting -- [indiscernible] -- is not as high as it should be. i encourage people to vote. possibility that their vote is ultimately going to contribute as part of the system. host: let's talk about the history. has mail-in voting been in

existence for the united states since the beginning or did this start in the 1900s? tell us about the history in the u.s.? guest: we have little bits of voting by mail in the 19th century. we don't know a lot about it. we had a big burst during the civil war, 1864. votersle-bodied male were soldiers in the field. there was a big effort to get them to vote. it sort of died after that. less common. 20th century, we saw states adopt absentee voting laws because of a more mobile population. century, thereh was another reform, which was important. the secret ballot. the civilian ballot. it used to be, you did not have

privacy. you would walk in, people could see your ballot, red or blue. city bosses might reward or punish you if you voted right or wrong. that was a very serious matter for privacy. when they started to have new allowing people away from the polls to vote, they tried to preserve that privacy. 1970's, stateate laws were restrictive, only allowing you to vote by mail if you absolutely needed to, if you have a compelling reason. secondly, they tried to have privacy protected by having a voter republic requirement. the first time i voted, in college, i got a ballot and had to go to the registrar of the

school and show my blank ballot, fill it out -- [indiscernible] -- her signature saying i voted that ballot privately. no one looked over my shoulder. something -- as [indiscernible] -- as we moved along. said we willnia move to this. let's make this a convenient. let's worry less about voter requirements, any reason you want, no excuse absentee voting. different states today reflect that. some states are still traditional, like in the 20th century. they have privacy protections. other states, as a way to really easier for people and to do away with those sorts of things, like many things in america -- [indiscernible]

it comes from the history of what we were thinking in the 19th century to the late 20th century. host: there is concern about security and accuracy of people voting absentee and voting by mail. one of our social media followers wants to know about the components of voting by mail. how does the election office verify signatures on ballots sent in by mail? guest: it varies. some states that do extensive oregon,ing, washington, places like that, have experience with this. they spend a lot of time on it, they train people, they have technology that can flag issues. they will find signatures that do not match and contact the voter. they have to submit another signature or verify their id in

some way. there are states, it varies. there are states that do not do as much. not as extensive and could be better. there are other ways in which we verify. some states require a copy of your id. some states have other verifying info, your address, perhaps a number or social security number. there are some things you provide to give confidence you are you. it is a real issue trying to make sure the ballot is actually the one who is connected to the line. host: let's see if we can get a few more callers. tiffany, huntsville, pennsylvania, good morning. caller: good morning. host: she plans to vote on election day. the reason i am going to

vote, i am 80 years old. and can go to the casino get my lottery ticket every day and go shopping, i can go to vote. that is a privilege. up to go got dressed to vote every year. she voted because she said it was a privilege. if i get my social security mailbox. is in my social security administration sends letters, it is safer to theyour social security via bank, not by mail. you cannot trust the mail. mailtime ago, a lot of my was taken out of my mailbox and went to my neighbors mailbox.

he brought it over wrapped in a rubber band, my bills and everything rhonda. my information. someone wanted to see what i was getting. there are many people who prefer to vote in person. there are different state cultures about that as well. the civic aspect. many people celebrate going to the polls. the community coming together. differences.l i am more of a proponent of early voting. people have different views in different places.

there are changing attitudes. all of these are part of the system. this pennsylvania voters, great chart, in pennsylvania you can apply for absentee ballots online, october 27, 5 p.m. to request that application. there is no early in person voting date. your mail-in ballot must be received by september 3 at 8 p.m. francis, lumberton, north carolina, voting early. the morning. near to anive right election office. i go up there and vote early, absentee ballot. [no audio] guest: people have a familiarity

with where they go. with corona, we may have more .hanges caller,i took from the she was heard -- referred to the voting is absentee but she was showing up in person. some of the states, the terminology is different. check with your state. checking your location, making sure it is still the same, is still a good idea. host: a question from social media. the first question. ppe?poll workers be given about purges done

of voter rolls for supposedly inactivity? first one, many states are requiring ppe. universal but strongly out there. voter rolls are always an issue. registration is the base for having people beyond the rolls , to show up, to cast a ballot. more accurate, more inclusive those lists are, the better off we are. we have made great strides. 2000, most states did not have a statewide computerized list. now, states talk to each other some. not all states. there is progress on moving in that direction. always a challenge of when to do updates.

purges orws limit changes to voter lists, to update them. but it is necessary. rollsd to keep our voter up to speed. check your voter registration. one issue not as many people have been going to the dmv. it is an issue where many people register in that way, they confirm registration in that way. if you have not been there as much, getting online or contacting your local official is important. host: what do you do if you show up to vote on election day and your name is not on the list of people who can vote or you are waiting for a ballot in the mail and you never see one for absentee or early voting? what do you do at that point? guest: most likely, the second case, depending on the state,

you are likely offered a provisional ballot. if you are registered and somehow told you are not, there is a process by which you are given a ballot, you're able to fill it out and it is put in an envelope. fact,ination after the were you really registered? made a mistake? if you were. there are some places where you might be voting in the wrong place. some states might try to count that. some states might try to send you to the right place. if you show up and there is a problem, that is for a provisional ballot. in many cases, it will be counted as things are resolved. it requires you to go back to the polling place, the election official, to show id or some info that was missing. in other states, that provisional ballot process is meant as a safeguard, if there are issues at the polling place.

at least to get consideration. oregon,ke, beaverton, voting by mail. good morning. caller: good morning. yes. my main problem with the vote by mail thing is, in the past, i actually had to go to a polling and iand show up there got a sense of community. locale, i am in a townhouse which is by 150 other townhouses and everyone is all segregated and we seem to be losing our sense of community. caller,ike the earlier there are people who enjoy the ,ivic aspect of voting

especially by going on election day. likely to seed be our neighbors. there are issues, perhaps, voting very very early, you might vote before the debates. there are issues with the civic aspect of voting. many people like vote by mail. they have found other ways to talk to their neighbors about the issues. something we don't have as much as we used to. all mail-in is ballot state. they do not have any in person early voting dates. your mail-in ballot deadline will be 8:00 p.m. on november 3. york, voting on

election day. good morning. caller: how are you doing? host: just fine. caller: [indiscernible] is iperience doing that spent 23 years in the army and a lot of time outside the country. we did a lot of mail in balloting. say the mail did not get there in time. station,go to a voting look, you're are not a registered voter, you can challenge that. by relying on the mail, we did not have that option. that is why i have elected to vote in person. guest: there are some protections at the polling place, security and privacy protections. u.s., are a local, in the vote by mail ballot -- many

places, election officials will try to contact you with any problems with the envelope, that you did not fill out anything or anything problematic. it is always possible. can be veryers, it difficult for that to happen. there are advantages of going in person. the civic matter we talked about. the election will be run well at all the stations. no matter what you do, make sure you check your location is right. in many states, that plan will include people who are going to vote on election day. can: in new york, you request an absentee ballot by mail or in person. by mail, october 22. in person, november 2. early in person voting dates, october 6, november 3 and your

mail-in ballot must be postmarked by november 3. annie, fayetteville, north carolina, good morning. caller: good morning. host: annie, go ahead. caller: this will be my first time voting by mail. heard about voting, voting by mail info in north carolina. --t i want to ask is [indiscernible] -- do we have drop boxes? i heard other places have drop boxes. thoselet's talk about drop boxes. emphasize, some people might be voting by mail for the first time. anything you do for the first time, there are challenges. you can ask your local election

official or find that information on the website. that is important. i don't know the answer. sometimes, it is a possibility to return your ballot in place. i would go to your local or state electionthat applies to ds well. a also sometimes is possibility to return your ballot to the polling place where the clerks office, so again, i would go to your legal or -- local or state officials website and ask that question. drop boxes, where they are available, are a good option for people who want to return their mail or absentee ballot without putting it into the postal service and makes it is there. host: in north carolina, you can apply for your absentee ballot online. you have to request your ballot by october 27 at 5:00 p.m.

early in person voting dates are october 15 through october 31, and your ballot must be by november 3. we would like to thank john uthor of "after the people vote: a guide to the electoral college." us thisu for being with morning. up next, we will be joined by dr. howard bauchner, editor-in-chief of the journal medicalamerican association, and he will discuss covid-19. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv on c-span two.

this labor day weekend, watch top nonfiction books and offers. a two hour live conversation with faith and freedom coalition founder ralph reed, then at 9:00 p.m. eastern, breitbart news senior editor at large joe ak on his book "red november." he is interviewed by recent editor at large matt welsh. and on monday, labor day, on six 6:15 eastern, "yes, i can say that." wes moore with "five days," and general james --with his book.

be sure to watch the offer to a 2020 national book festival, live, saturday, september 26 on book tv. american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. coming up this labor day weekend, saturday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on the civil war, historians discuss how we civil warhe and whether to remove or contextualize confederate monuments. on sunday, at 6:00 p.m. eastern on american artifacts, we preview artifacts from the smithsonian's native american collection. retreats,presidential including abraham lincoln's summer cottage, herbert hoover's shenandoah mountains fishing camp, and stories of the kennedys, clintons, and obama's

in martha's vineyard. and on monday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, mark the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki, as american history tv and washington journal look back at the events that led to the bombing with offeree and toll -- author ian tolle and president --'s grandson. this weekend on american history tv. washington journal continues. host: we are back with dr. howard bauchner, who is the editor-in-chief of the journal of the american medical association, and he is going to talk with us this morning about the u.s. response to covid-19. dr. bauchner, good morning. guest: good morning, jesse. host: last time we had you on this show was back in april, when we were at the beginning of the covid pandemic. six months later, where are we

now in the fight against covid-19? what new have we learned? think someesse, i progress and many remaining challenges -- let's quickly go over the progress. clearly, we know what helps to blunts the spread of covid-19, social distancing, masking, handwashing, and staying outdoors. in contrast, we know what contributes to spread, indoor activities and not masking. i think that is clearer now than it was in april. that concept has been enforced by the cdc, every state health department, every leading idea expert in the country. there is good evidence that it works. arizona is a good example, after they put those public health measures in place a month later, the number of new cases and deaths dropped. there's more information now

about the treatment of seriously ill individuals and what works. a just published on tuesday the results of seven randomized clinical trials that use steroids as well as an analysis that combined all the data. i think it is clear that corticosteroids are seriously ill people with covid-19's first therapy. remdesivir, we have seen some success, but some trials have wn substantially less success. the studies around convalescent plasma, less serven. clear,llenges are continued spread in the united states, the opening of schools has become hugely problematic around the country, same with universities. i do think there's been a misunderstanding about the number of deaths.

this morning we are up to about 180,000 deaths that are attributable to covid-19, but i think the real issue is what's the number of excess deaths. that could be closer to 250,000. there's been two or three reports now that looked at the number of deaths over the preceding four or five, six years versus the number of deaths this year. you want to understand the number of excess deaths, about 50% more than the covid id related deaths. that would bring us to 250,000 or more excess deaths. it's possible by december of this year, we will approach between 400000 and 500,000 excess deaths related to covid. host: understand what you mean by excess deaths. these are deaths over what the normal number of deaths would have been in a calendar year.

is that what you mean? explain to us what you mean by the excess deaths number. guest: exactly, jesse. you got it exactly right. the cdc puts out the number of people dying in the united states each year. over the last five years, it has averaged a little over a million deaths a year. in 2019, 1 million people died, and 2018 it was 950,000. you can get an average of have any people died over the preceding five years, then look at the deaths this year and it is 1.5 million, it averaged one million in the last five years. the excess deaths this year would be 500,000. some of those will be directly attributable to the virus. others will be related to just the pandemic, people not coming in for early treatment of stroke or early treatment of heart attacks. i think the figure people really need to understand is not just relatedd id 19

deaths, but the number of excess deaths. if indeed it reaches 400,000 or 450,000, that would exceed the number of deaths for the vietnam war, the korean war, even world war ii. host: one of the things that has concerned me, i went to get my flu shot this year and had my children get the flu shot. i was talking with one of the nurses and she was talking about how the flu mutates every year to a new strain. do we have any concern about the coronavirus, covid-19, mutating into a new strain inside this country? guest: there's really generally good news about that. na virus.n r there are minor mutations of the rna virus, but none of the experts feel any of these mutations will impact either treatment or impact the development of a vaccine. i think there is generally good news about this issue, so we do

know there's different strains, but it is somewhat different so i thinknza, flu, people can generally be reassured about this issue. host: let me remind our viewers that they can take part in this conversation as well. we are going to open up regional lines for this conversation. that means if you are in the eastern or central time zones, your telephone number is going to be (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain and pacific time zones, your telephone number is going to be (202) 748-8001. if you are a medical professional, i am going to open up special lines for medical professionals this morning. i want you to take part in this conversation. medical professionals, your number is going to be (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, you can always and us at (202) 748-8003, i'm always reading on social media, on twitter at @cspanwj

and facebook at facebook.com/cspan. we are coming up on labor day weekend this weekend. we have seen top u.s. health officials warned that labor day is going to be essential for containing the coronavirus this fall. do you agree? guest: i don't think it will just be labor day. i think it will be the coming months. i think the great concern for the fall is as it gets colder outside, people are more likely , andnt to come back inside that will be a struggle. ofs clear that the spread disease is greater inside than is why, and that virtually every public health official has raised concerns about what the fall will bring. obviously labor day kicks off the fall, so that is one of the issues people have raised. or people get together with families and friends, hopefully that will be outside. it is the coming four months,

september, october, november in the united states that is a much greater concern. that's why i was pleased to hear that you have tried to get your children and yourself the flu vaccine. that is why this year, particularly, virtually every group is recommending the flu vaccine. we would like to see flu vaccination rates in the 70%, 80%, or 90% range. host: we have a question from a social media viewer already, and it relates to something we were talking about earlier, the excess deaths. the question is, what is the number of people who have actually died of coronavirus? people were having the virus, but they died of other causes. cause of death is a far more complicated issue than people think. or 68, and has7 a heart condition, and then gets

coronavirus and they die, in general that will be attributable to coronavirus. obviously they had underlying conditions. to date, most authorities believe that about 180,000 directlyve died because they got coronavirus infection. if they had not gotten coronavirus infection, they would still have underlying heart disease, but they would be alive. host: let's go to our phone lines and let our viewers take part in this conversation. we are going to start with bill, calling from virginia beach, virginia. good morning. caller: hello. quick question. i have often wondered, to what extent does the onus from the virus take place -- illness from the virus take place? there are college kids on the beaches in spring break and

summers, people in demonstrations and close together in streets in our nation. even though they are outside, they are still congregating relatively close together in some instances. i was wondering -- to me, it is just carelessness on the part of the general public. do you have any comments about that? thank you. it's a provocative question far more than you think. there is not a great deal of high-quality information to answer your question. we have seen reports in the popular press, in the last few days, about spread on college campuses. i am assuming that spread occurred largely outside, since most colleges have been very, very careful about how they have allowed individuals to live within dormitories. we know for example, some of the spread in colleges has clearly occurred outside. that is in contrast, for example, to a wedding in maine in which many people believe

most of the spread occurred because of inside activities. there's been reports from korea where they had to close certain areas around bars, and there have been similar reports in the united states -- again, inside activity. we know outside activities are safer than inside activities, but i think many people are not masking outside and are certainly not practicing social distancing. that adds to spread outside. host: howard, you have worked at boston university school of medicine, so you have been in those educational environments. ande had universities open then be forced to closed. locally, james madison university, if i'm not mistaken, hatched to close back down. university of north carolina. these schools who tried to reopen had to turn around and close because of spread of coronavirus.

do you think that we can hold in person schooling in america this semesterthe entire with this coronavirus still going through the country? well, i've watched the reports from different universities, and how other universities that have opened have responded. it's possible, i just don't think we have an answer to that question yet, jesse. for example, i have followed what some of the universities have done in boston. of associate editor infectious diseases is chief health officer at the university of michigan. i think some of the universities that have opened the after those that have -- opened after those muchhave closed have stricter guidelines around students on campus. there is some optimism that that will be successful, but it is unclear if it will. more importantly, schools need to develop a response to when

there is a case, how much tracking, tracing and quarantining can they do with students? that is not a question we can yet answer. that is in contrast to schools 8, becoming increasingly complicated. the life of mayors has been increasingly difficult over the last 4, 5 months as they have tried to negotiate a way to open in person rather than in person -- rather than distant learning. the decisions will be far more local. if you are in a small town in the midwest where there is no disease, i think those schools likely can reopen. again, they will have to monitor the amount of disease that occurs within the school or potentially within a local community. i think it will be far more difficult in large urban areas, where there are many, many more children. i think the answer for colleges and schools is somewhat different. host: let's go to mike, calling

from iowa. good morning. caller: how are you doing today? host: just fine, go ahead. caller: this is my take on the virus, ok? i have had the virus and it ain't no big deal. it is not as big a deal as people are raising. my son rode in a car with me and my wife seven hours, we did not know we had the virus at that point. he rode in the car with us for seven hours, ok, and he didn't get it. he did not get the virus. let these kids go back to school. let them catch the virus. because if you catch it, you get immunity, ok? if you get immunity, that is the way you wipe the damn thing out. let's confront this virus and had this thing on the right -- head this thing on the right way. host: go ahead and respond, howard. guest: mike, you raise a number of interesting issues in your

comments. first, you are correct. many people do quite well in the sense that they recover or have mild disease. there's been well over 5 million cases in the united states, 200,000 deaths, but hundreds of thousands of individuals have had to be hospitalized. you were fortunate in interacting with people that either had mild illness, no illness, or did not need to be hospitalized. but that is not true for everyone. we know who the high-risk groups are. the other issue that you were commenting on was the concept of whether or not, by just allowing people to be infected, could the united states develop something called herd immunity? there's about 300 25 million people in the united states. it is somewhat debatable how many people we would need so that other people wouldn't get infected, so called herd about 60%,ut it is

70%, we need almost 200 million people to get infected. sweden has tried that approach and their mortality rates were quite high. someone once commented to me on a show that i was doing through a, that when we talk about children or young adults, we think far more about the number of cases of serious illness, so if one college student dies because they've gotten coronavirus, is that one too many? friendsparents or the of that individual, absolutely. and so that is the calculus that we have to think about. you certainly are putting college students at risk when they go back to campus. it's true, the majority will recover, but it is quite possible that some will not, and some may need to be

hospitalized. to read you, i want a quote about testing for coronavirus in the united states, and i want you to respond to it. -- it's great to talk about this utopian kind of idea where everybody has a test every day and we can do that. i don't live in a utopian world. i live in the real world, and the real world had no tests for this new disease when this first started. there is no stone unturned, there is no technology we are not looking at or investing in if it's promising. we can turn to society -- return to society without everyone having a test every single day. we can do that. we are showing we can do that. testing in america -- can we test every day? is it realistic for everyone to get a test? guest: it is not realistic nor appropriate that everyone needs to be tested every day. the admirals statement is somewhat misleading.

it is quite clear that it took us months to get to adequate testing for health care facilities and for high-risk individuals. what do i mean by that? so medicalmonths, centers or hospitals or nursing homes could test those who hadals to know disease and who did not have disease. it has clearly gotten better, both for hospitals and for other high-risk areas. testing on demand isn't at the moment available -- it probably isn't necessary, but it's quite clear and virtually all individuals agree that the u.s. did a poor job in rolling out a sufficient amount of testing to protect the population, and this is in contrast to other countries that have simply done a better job. we know it's possible. he is right in saying that every individual does not need to be tested every day, but i think it

is somewhat misleading to suggest that the u.s. has had adequate testing. host: let's move from talking about testing to talking about a possible vaccine. do you think the u.s. will have an effective vaccine by the end of this year? guest: this is without doubt one of the more complicated and controversial areas. ongoingthat many, many trials are enrolling patients in the united states and around the world. they are accumulating evidence as you and i are talking today. these are so called phase three trials. five or six have been supported by the u.s. government, but there are many others ongoing in the united states. it is quite clear that they will begin to report out data or accumulate data, as they have already, but certainly by october. that will probably not provide a sufficient enough time to know whether or not the vaccine was effective, but there will be scientific oversight committees

who will help the companies who are developing the vaccines to make those decisions. at some point, that data will be presented to the food and drug administration, who will have to make a decision about whether they approve or do not approve a vaccine. there has certainly been a substantial amount of concern raised in the last couple weeks, couple months that the fda may ae a mechanism to approve vaccine called emergency use authorization. that's currently under much discussion and debate within the scientific community. i do think there are safeguards that the fda could employ that would allow the public to be reassured about a potential eua for a vaccine. host: another question for you -- window vaccine -- when a vaccine is

eventually produced, what do you expect to be the rate of americans who actually take it? there was a gallop poll -- gallup poll that came out recently, from july 20 to august 2, where 65% of people said they would take an fda approved vaccine, but 35%, more than a full third of people in that poll, said they would not take an fda approved vaccine. what is the concern about whether people will actually take a vaccine or not, and -- or not once it is produced? guest: people have spent a great time thinking about this and figuring out how the scientific community can interact with the public to reassure them about vaccine -- about a vaccine. there has been great the fda,ation of centers for disease control, the

cdc. commissioner hahn will be under tremendous pressure when data are presented to him about a vaccine. there are other government groups that should be able to see the data and way in and say whether or not, they agree or don't agree with the fda's decision. the advisory committee on immunization practices should see the data, the fda has a vaccine advisory committee that should see the data, also most of these trials have data monitoring safety boards that see the data. all those groups should weigh in on whatever decision the fda makes so the public can be reassured that it is a decision supported by many different independent groups from the fda. after the fda makes the approval , i think it is incumbent upon them to make the information transparent, understandable to the public, and hopefully the leadership around this country will be supportive of the itcine if the data supports

safety and effectiveness. after that, it is going to require an enormous amount of conversations between individuals, the public, public health officials and governmental officials. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to donna, calling from vero beach, florida. donna, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i kind of think sometimes we are giving out the wrong message. we hear every day, you know, wash your hands, distancing, masking and whatnot. our younger people don't understand. it is a preventative. foro to a doctor preventative medicine. for care ofentist our teeth. we have tests annually that we peoplend our younger have never really experienced

illnesses due to the vaccinations they have had. they don't get chickenpox. they don't get measles. you know, that's why they don't want to wear the mask. i think if we can broach that with more of a preventative then their doctors of and scientists and things, wash iur hands, you know, etc., think maybe we would get to them and have a better result. go ahead and respond, howard. guest: donna, you raise an issue that is long-standing in medicine. american health care, generally, if people have access to it, does quite well around acute care. people get sick, they seat treatment -- seek treatment. if they have access, they generally get good care in the united states.

where the u.s. struggles, as in other countries, is prevention. it is a different concept, because you are taking a medicine when you are well. many countries, including the u.s., have really struggled around prevention. i also think you know, and i expect most of our listeners know young people feel like they are impervious to the world, that they will always be healthy. in combination with the concept of prevention, which is different for people of all ages, masking, social distancing, handwashing has been a struggle in the u.s. i think everyone agrees that we could have had a much more consistent message from the leadership in the united states, from february or march on. it is more important in this disease, because we know that people can be a

symptomatic, or pre-symptomatic. the characteristics of the disease, combined with prevention, combined with a lack of a clear message from our leaders has made the notion of anding, social distancing, handwashing complicated. host: the cdc has advised states to be ready to distribute a vaccine by november. one of our social media followers wants to know, what with that preparation entail? how should states be preparing to distribute a vaccine that doesn't exist yet, but how should they be preparing to distribute that vaccine? guest: vaccine distribution and administration is really quite complicated, far more than people can imagine. first, people have to prepare appropriate warehouse is for it. some vaccines need to be delivered from the manufacturing plant to the individual in a matter of days and stored at

very, very low temperatures. that will be a huge challenge for states and physicians' offices. the cdc was right in telling people to prepare, but it confused the public in thinking that there would be a vaccine by november. the cdc was trying to tell people that the states need to try to understand, what is their infrastructure for warehousing the drug, warehousing the vaccine and delivering that to appropriate distribution places? decides one pharmacies, individual physicians offices, or hospitals. the federal government has tried to increase production capacity for the four or five vaccines they are supporting, so that when a vaccine is approved, tens of millions of doses will be available quite quickly, but those doses needs to move from a production plant to a state to individual practices to hospitals or to pharmacies --

practices, to hospitals or to pharmacies. the cdc was trying to alert states that they need to understand that supply chain. it is far more complicated than one imagines. with the uncertainty of which vaccine will be approved is even more complicated. that i think the message confused individuals. i don't think the cdc was indicating that there would be a vaccine by november. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to tom, calling from buffalo, new york. tom, good morning. caller: good morning. one of your callers called in and mentioned the demonstrations , that the demonstrators were spreading the virus. at thesee them on tv demonstrations, almost all of these protesters have masks on. i really don't think they were spreading the virus very much. been atom, there has not

great deal of evidence to suggest that any of these protests have spread substantial amounts of disease. i have not seen any reports, you are correct. i don't watch very much tv. i have seen some of the protests on social media, as well as occasionally i catch glimpses of it, and i do think most of the majority of those individuals, the majority of those individuals have masks, so you are correct. the protests have largely been outside. i think that is in contrast to college campuses, where the pictures i have seen is of individuals who are not masked, so i think you are absolutely correct, tom. host: let's go to philip, calling from providence, rhode island. good morning. caller: yes, are there articles you can refer us to that show masks, that cloth masks actually protect others and protect the wearer? if so, to what extent?

likewise about the face shields that one can wear, which seems to me it would protect people even better than the cloth masks. philip, there have been a number of high quality reports that have suggested that masking works. , andas reported in jama it was a research letter of a number of hospitals in boston that initially wasn't masking, and then started to mask. cases declined dramatically after all the workers started to mask. there have been reports in the mmwr, published by the centers for disease control, which also indicate that masks are

effective. clear thatit's quite there is little or no morbidity from wearing a mask. there are no side effects or adverse effects. if there are, they are minimal. i think there is broad agreement that masks are protective. how protective they are for the individual wearing it is less clear than they are protective of other people surrounding the individual who is wearing the mask. you raise the issue of face shields -- a bit more controversy about face shields. jadid have an article in ma that is free to the public that indicated the one thing face masks do, or face shields with a mask under it, it protects the eyes, and there has been some discussion about whether or not you can get

coronavirus from tears. your mucous membranes are of the eyes, are obviously protected with a shield. how much more protection that offers is unclear, but i think for people who really are risk-averse, i think wearing both a shield as well as a mask is probably the best route to go. since we are talking about masks, i have a question from one of our social media followers i want you to address. she wants to know your views on masks -- but here's what i want you to answer. should all indoor activities require a mask? when should masks not be worn? i think -- let's take schools for an example. that would be best. say it is indoor activities.

i think if individuals can really be six feet apart, people can probably type off -- take off their masks. but the problem is when they get up from their seat, they will likely not put their mask on. i think if they are well, they cannot be ill, have a runny nose, a cough or be sneezing, they could probably take off their mask if they are more than six feet apart. i know there has been some debate about re-feet or six feet , it is not clear, so i think that greater distance is better. if you can maintain a distance of six feet and two people are in the room, it is probably safe to take off your mask. toe you get up, is it safe put the mask back on? for dining, one would have to take off the masks, but hopefully you are with friends or colleagues that don't have disease. i know in chicago for example they have now asked even when we are ordering at a restaurant that is outdoors, that we keep our mask on and we literally

only take our mask off when we are eating. i think to answer the question precisely, it has to do with the amount of distancing you can maintain indoors. ray, callingalk to from syracuse, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. very good discussion. before i start, i want to tell the doctor, i am going to say some things you are not going to like, but it is not personal to him at all. this entire thing that has gone on in the last several months is a scam and he said a mouthful when he mentioned the of this virus coming to america and the rest of the world. estimate 25% to 50% of the people in the country, at least in my circle and what i keep track of online have figured this out over time, that this is

exactly what we were told by the administration, that this is a little bit of a flu, and it might have been a little worse or not quite as bad, and it was mostly whatand happened is not necessary. the cdc reported recently when they were forced to that about 000 to 10,000 people, their deaths can be strictly called from covid because they had no other diseases or any other causes. with --s consistent actually, that's much less people that die from the flu , so this was all orchestrated and timed by some political actors and the idea

was to control us. 35%ou're 35% guests -- your of people that will allow the vaccine to be injected into them, that will not happen. the fact that politics allows people to do this, we will never trust the politicians again. host: go ahead and respond, howard. y, as ana editor-in-chief of a major journal, i get many people emailing me who disagree with what we publish, so i'm quite comfortable with having a discussion with you. i tried at the beginning of the show to talk about this issue of deaths, because i do think it has gotten confusing by different announcements that have come from different groups. that's why i think it is so critically important for people to understand this notion of excess deaths.

the 180,000 coronavuirus are 250,000, i do not think that is worth debating. we know 250,000 deaths have occurred during the pandemic. that is an accurate piece of information. that has occurred in the face of the pandemic, and are absolutely pandemic related deaths. they would not have occurred this year, it is very unlikely they would have occurred this year without the pandemic. what you mentioned about flu, you could say the same thing about flu. someone who is older gets flu or dies from flu from their underlying chronic disease -- that is where this notion of excess deaths is important to understand. we also understand hundreds of thousands of individuals have had to be hospitalized because they were seriously ill from the disease, and they didn't die.

healthh and april, many care systems, particularly in new york, connecticut, and the new jersey area were overwhelmed with the number of patients. this then trickled out into other states. we know it causes a great deal of disease that leads people to be hospitalized, even if they don't die. so i would disagree. i don't think it is a scam. it is a real disease that has caused him norma's amount of morbidity -- caused under rmous's amount -- an eno amount of morbidity and mortality in the united states. i would say there's one other great success story -- we knew by the end of march that the highest risk individuals were the frail elderly, and i think the united states has done a much better job in april, may,

june, july, and august protecting the frail elderly, and that is a tribute to families, particularly those who work in nursing homes and health-care workers around the world. we know we need to protect the frail elderly from getting disease. they are at far higher risk. the number of people dying now is about 1000 a day. it dropped down into the hundreds at the last you days it was -- into the hundreds but the last few days it was 1000 per day, and i think we have learn who we need to protect. host: dr. scott atlas has joined the white house as an advisor on the administration's coronavirus response. howard, who is dr. scott atlas and what perspective is he bringing to the conversation? know hisdon't really bio very well, so i cannot speak to that. i have read some of his

announcements that seem at odds with the general prevailing view within medical and scientific communities. this week, dr. atlas was pushing for what is called herd immunity. he was on a sirius xm radio show, and here's what he said about herd immunity. i want you to hear it. [video clip] >> herd immunity, or population-based immunity, if you don't believe that happens as an immunological phenomenon, you would not understand why vaccines are given. vaccines are given in a widespread basis so there are enough people that have immunity so that you block the pathways toward the vulnerable, and you eradicate the threat. you don't eradicate the virus, but you eradicate the threat. this is not even controversial. the point of our article is simply to claim that i am advocating that everything should be opened up and let it

flow and get people to have beenity -- that's never iid by me or anyone here, and think it is inexplicable, really. it is an overt live. all, explain what herd immunity is. we have heard people talking about herd immunity since the beginning of this pandemic. explain what herd immunity is and if you think of it as a way to help contain the coronavirus? a complicated concept. interestingly enough, we had a conversation and are developing a patient page around herd immunity. ed livingston who sees clinical jama, we talked about it this week. if you have 100 people and five or 10 or infected, the other 90 could get infected. but if 80 of those people are

infected and recover, firstly, only 20 people could potentially get disease and in addition, the likelihood that the 20 will come in contact with each other is much less if 80 people are protected. notion of herd immunity is that as more and more people get infected, the likelihood that someone is uninfected will get exposed to someone who is infected declines. that is the concept of herd immunity. country that one tried to go that route early on in the pandemic. it was sweden. they generally said, let's keep society open. let people get infected, and then potentially the country could develop herd immunity. the people who have seen data from sweden have said it has been a failure. one, there mortality rate was far higher than other countries that surround sweden, so they did not do a very good job

protecting the elderly who were most at risk. in addition, surprisingly, more or less people got infected then imagined -- far less people got infected then imagined, so the number that they needed to develop herd immunity never reached -- it does not appear to have worked. what he's argument, leaving out is if you went that route, how many deaths are you willing to be comfortable with? are you willing to allow thousands of young people to die? they will die. you can't reduce risk to zero. there's about 4 million individuals in each birth about 120 there's million between zero and 30. if you allow all of them to get infected, that would help the

country move towards herd immunity, but there would be death and morbidity in that group. it is a complicated discussion to do say -- to say how many deaths you are willing to tolerate. is it 1000, 10,000, 50,000 of people? million scott is only providing some of the arguments, and i don't think the important aspect of the discussion that we would need to have. host: let's see if we can get some more phone calls in. let's go to julia, calling from new milford, connecticut. julia, good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, julia. caller: good morning, can you hear me? host: yes we can. go ahead. caller: i have a question -- what is a difference between the flu and the covid-19? since 80,000 people died last year of the regular flu, the as soonlu, covid-19,

the outbreak came about, we were all told to stay indoors and not go out, and the doctors could not even see you at that time, when the outbreak took place. we were only supposed to call, go to the hospital or call an ambulance if we had respiratory issues. what i am trying to understand here is that, just like the flu, the flu, if you don't get treatment right away, it turns into pneumonia and is respiratory and anybody that has isrt disease or diabetes vulnerable. if not treated early, they can die. what is the difference between covid-19, since we were not able to get help, for instance, when the flu season comes about, you go to the doctor, you get

tamiflu and you get treated, and you don't go to the extreme respiratory issues. respond onead and the difference between covid-19 and the flu. you bring up something that i think has been confusing for many people. covid-19 areand caused by different viruses. i think people are acutely aware of that. wanes during the year. it is usually much more prominent in the winter months and generally wanes in the spring and in the summer, returning the following fall. there are slight genetic shifts each year, so the vaccine changes. deaths that you talked about related to flu

vaccine, i think the number you have is higher than generally what people reported for 2019. generally each year, and it varies, there are between 20 and 40,000 deaths that are attributable to flu. i think last year it was higher, but i don't think it was anywhere near 80,000. it's clear that coronavirus morbidity, problems, and probably has a higher mortality rate than flu. now, the issue that you raise, which is more interesting, is in general during flu season, although we tell people to not go to work, i don't think people pay that much attention to it. i think many people do go to work. ashave seen reports at jama

well as in other journals that buy amp lamenting masking, social distancing and working from home, in some countries, the amount of flu has actually gone down. we know that it would be effective for flu, but we don't feel during the flu season that we can really fundamentally change the way society exists, so i don't think we are as attentive to the flu season as we have been to the coronavirus pandemic. for twopart of that is or three reasons. first, coronavirus spreads much more easily than flu. there are different metrics that it spreads more effectively than flu, firstly. secondly, it's case fatality flu, of people who get versus who get coronavirus, the number of people who die from ,oronavirus is higher than flu and so that is another way in

which it is different. you mentioned tamiflu, which is not particularly effective for the treatment of influenza. there is some debate about whether or not it is effective at all in reducing mortality. it may reduce symptoms by about a day, so instead of being sick for five days, you would be sick for four days. it is uncertain whether it reduces mortality at all. there are some other difference between flu and coronavirus, but you raise a number of really interesting issues, and i have already mentioned, the great concern is in the fall, when both coronavirus will be circulating in the united states as well as when flu will begin to circulate in the united states. host: here's another question from one of our social media followers, who noted that pole we talked about earlier and said aboutt poll we talked earlier and said it appears 30%

to 40% won't voluntarily get vaccinated for covid-19. should lawmakers require virtually everybody to get vaccinated, or maybe all students? a second question, can businesses require that employees get vaccinated? guest: yeah, this is a contentious issue, jesse, both for private institutions and for private businesses. i suspect that if there was mandatory vaccination of the general public, there would be legal challenges. i willt a legal expert, not see that play out at the state level and then ultimately at the federal level. we do know that state surrounds childhood vaccinations have developed more and more restrictive exceptions. school entries have mandated immunizations. with a few tiny exceptions. whether that would be legal for

think iss, colleges, i a matter better taken up by legal experts. universities mandate the vaccination? i am not certain. i think it will be critical. i think it will be critical. regardless of who is president of the united states, when a vaccine becomes available, that the public know that independent groups, have i -- as i have already mentioned, like the advisory committee on immunization practices or the food and drug administration's advisory panel on vaccines sees the data and agrees with the fda's recommendation. then i would hope that federal leadership and state leadership would work with individuals to try to assure that a sufficient number of people get vaccinated. host: let's see if we can squeeze in a couple quick colors

before the top of the hour. let's go to dan, calling from tennessee. can you get a quick question or comment in for us? caller: a quick comment. a minute or two ago, woman called in -- a lady called in -- asked the difference between covid and the flu. covid is political. the flu has lost its luster, so has the opioid epidemic. one quick thing -- things need to be simplified. if i had the virus and we shook it and i, if you had shook your hand, i have got it habit of non the longer touching my face. if i wash up, that is fine. the ph of my skin will kill that virus. this is a respiratory droplet virus. it is not contact, it is not airborne. even if i was to talk to you with my face facing the

ground, we would be safe. i work in that environment, and the people that are going our geriatrics with comorbidities. they have other comorbidities. that is why i take care of my health, so i don't get ambushed or get a shot from another virus or from another illness. respond,ahead and howard, before we run out of time. correct, it is largely a respiratory pathogen. there have been some reports that the virus can survive on objects, and that potentially one could get it from contact. that's unclear, how much of the spread occurs that way. i don't think people are concerned, the majority of contact,curs by direct so again, i think he's correct. wash your hands. he did not mention if he wears a mask, but certainly for west pretoria pathogen's -- for

pathogens, wearing a mask is key. host: let's go to frank, calling from oklahoma. can you give us a question or comments? caller: yes, since the 1960's, they have been using aborted fetal tissue in the production of vaccines, like mmr and even rabies. is there going to be fetal tissue used in this covid vaccine? well, frank, two or three of the new approaches are bioengineered dna and messenger rna vaccines. i do not believe that any fetal tissue will be used in the development of those vaccines. vaccines,n expert in but almost 100% sure that no fetal material will be used in the development of those vaccines. like toll, we would thank dr. howard bauchner, editor-in-chief of the journal of the american medical

association for coming back on washington journal today and walking us through the development with covid-19. howard, thank you so much for the time today. guest: thanks, jesse. stay healthy. for everyone who is watching, stay healthy, keep your distance, wear masks and wash your hands. thank host: host: you, jesse. we would like to thank all of callers, and guests for today's washington journal. remember to continue to wash her hands and stay safe. thanks for being with us -- wash your hands and stay safe. thanks for being with us. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] you are watching c-span, your

unfiltered view of government. televisionamerica's company as a public service and brought you today by your television provider. afternoon, presidential candidate joe biden will be talking what the latest job reports and the u.s. economy. live coverage from willington delaware gets underway a 12:15 eastern. be a part ofm will a discussion on the role of judges in the federal judiciary, hosted by the south carolina chapter of the federalist society. live at 2:00 p.m. eastern. menhe contenders, about the who ran for the presidency and lost but changed political history. tonight, four term governor of alabama george wallace. the contenders, this