the westminster 2.0 working group. thank you for joining us. stay tuned for more of our work. thank you. >> you are watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government. america's public cable companies and brought to you today as a service. >> we will take you live to wilmington, delaware, to hear from president-elect joe biden. continuing -- that is coming up again in just a couple of minutes, live on c-span. i look at the transition to a biden administration in january. n hult, a science professor

at virginia tech. she's also a member of the white house transition project advisory board. thanks for being with us on washington journal. karen: good to be here. host: the white house transition project, tell us about it. this is a nonpartisan, nonprofit entity. it is staffed by political science professors and others around the united states. 1990's for thehe white house interview program. they were trying to develop some institutional memory by talking to people that had various white house death and over time. staff positions over time. they can find out what happens to staff positions for both

parties. directedolved and is by you speak directly with those transition teams from those campaigns. >> what we do do, really beginning well before the candidates campaigns are putting

together their transition team. but after each party nominates its candidate. what we make available to transition directors is our materials. many will be password protected and not available to the general public. but we try to give them information on various offices in the white house as well as where the executive office of the president is. and access to people who have served in these positions as well as the briefing essays we have done. we talk when requested with people from transition teams. but really, we are a resource for the transition teams to work with. host: it seems like a huge undertaking to transition to a new presidency. give us an idea on the scope of

the individual agencies that need to be covered. karen: it is a huge undertaking. starting with personnel, there are over 4000 positions a new president may fulfill, including 1200 that need to be confirmed by the u.s. senate. when the president leaves the white house, everything leaves the west wing. computer hard drives, files, everything. during the inauguration, they take everything and reinstall computer systems and things like that. so when the new white house staff shows up, they face empty rooms, empty computers, and have to start from scratch. what the transition project tries to do as well as legislation that has been passed is to try to ease the transition process. the have the trail going back to the nominating convention. that is a point at which,

according to federal law, each team serving in the white house and the biden team got access to office space, computer in safe telephones. once president biden is ascertained to be president-elect, it opens up resources for the new president. host: our guest is karen hult on the white house advisory -- transition advisory board. we are talking about the presidential transition, both current and historical. (202) 748-8000 free democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. and independence, (202) 748-8002. what leads the transition?

karen: what we are hearing about now is the general services administration. i'm using a legal term here, they ascertain who the newly elected president is. what it does is open up additional resources for the president-elect and the transition team. working with the general services administration is the office of personnel management, the office of government ethics to make sure the new transition team and administration is following ethics tools. according to the law, there is something called the white house

transition council and executive agencies. these folks have been working since september talking with each other about the next steps of a new transition. host: the biden campaign has been critical of the gsa administrator, emily w murphy who is a political appointee of the trump administration. the new york times says miss murphy has the legal authority to turn on the transition, releasing $6.3 million in federal funds budgeted for the effort, making office space available and powering team members to visit offices to request information. but there is no specific provision for when she must act. an ascertainment has not yet been made. she added the gsa and the administrator will continue to abide by fulfill all requirements under the law and adhere to prior precedent established by the clinton administration in 2000. what is this ascertainment? are you familiar with that?

karen: the term ascertainment comes from the statute itself. it can be thought of of the winner of the race is the president-elect. what the trump administration is doing is using that as precedent, saying that remember in 2000, the year of the hanging chad in florida, because there was a recount under a great deal of controversy, what was not clear was who the president-elect was going to be. the clinton administration decided to not recognize the w bush folks as having won the presidency. they have been steps updated since then. but having said that, it is the case that bill clinton within two weeks opened up to george w. bush and allowed the people to

look at some classified briefings so they were not coming in completely cold. no one has done the same thing for the biden transition team. host: what did we learn from the 2000 and 2001 experience with bush winning the presidency, his transition delayed by five weeks. does that affect the appointment of the 4000 appointed positions? karen: yes it did. especially those that had to be senate confirmed. those nominees have to undergo thorough background checks by the fbi and a range of others. we should be clear. in the year 2000 nor right now, did that mean no transition planning was going on. it was in 2000 while the

campaign was going on so that if george w. bush won, he would be ready to take office on january 20. if we remember back to late 2000, we also remember that w bush had a kind of helpful head of the transition team while waiting for the results to be issued. that was vice president elect dick cheney that had been chief of staff and the ford white house and was quite familiar with the rhythms of the federal government. biden's transition team has been working since the spring as well. cochair of the transition team has -- is ted kaufman who has a history with biden.

it was passed in 2015. host: and served in joe biden's seat for a stretch in the u.s. senate. karen: it was an interim appointment. exactly. the biden team has transition team's ready. what they are doing is looking at possible nominees for various positions. presumably, they are looking at getting a white house staff put in order. name a expect they would chief of staff and continue to do those other things. what they can't do, getting more money and office space would be useful but they are unable to do is to get access to various agencies. they have big briefing books ready for the new administration. they are sitting in the agencies ready to brief new

administration but those teams cannot gain access until miss murphy ascertains that president biden is president-elect. host: what is-- the statutory agency? what is supposed to happen, the current government agencies have to at the beginning of a presidential election year are asked to start the planning for the transition. the transition to an existing president or a new president. six months out from that, the agencies have to report back on what they are doing and moreover, as we get closer after the candidates are nominee did, they are asked to begin a white house transition council and agency review council to develop transition materials.

the agencies are bound to do that by law. board andmber of that with virginia tech, a political science professor. tina is in alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. transition period with president trump, general flynn was making calls to his estate there was a report that the president elect biden is making calls to his estate. will the justice be the same for both? guest: that is a really good question. one of the concerns about mr. biden not being officially declared president-elect is that biden does not have the assistance of the state department to facilitate those calls with heads of state. they have been issuing statements and trying to reach out to mr. biden.

what the biden administration would prefer that was going on as they would have the facilitation of the state department. that does not happen -- that is not happening right now. caller: good morning. wondering, i don't know if this is so much under -- or if it is in the constitution. i guess my question would be, what authority will be taken next to force her to sign this over? will they have to go through the courts? i do not see anything in the constitution requiring the lady to sign this over to president biden. i worry about it because when we have this must -- this much dysfunctionality, i can tell you as a taxpayer and a voter, from

what i have seen this whole process played out, i can tell you it put a lot of doubt in my head as far as not just the government running now but what is the future. host: the question about -- can inaction be formed -- forced -- can an action be forced? guest: russell is exactly right. it is not in the u.s. constitution. the ascertainment language comes from the presidential transition act. it is statutory law. it gives the administration the authority to ascertain. it is not as clear as it might be what goes into the ascertainment as to who is president-elect under certain circumstances. she is well within her statutory bounds in order to wait to be sure that all of the votes have been counted and counted legally. what she may be doing now is

saying, i want to wait and see how some of these investigations and some of the court cases are going to continue for a make that ascertainment. that the biden team is investigating its own legal possibility to take the gsa to court and see if there is a way to push her to make that ascertainment. at the moment, it appears she is acting according to the law. ist: the washington post bideng about the headl could be aimed at her authority to ascertain the results and make an independent judgment when she is taking instructions from a president who has a vested stake in the election. not moving forward could have national security implications because the incoming administration would be ill-equipped to handle current threats facing the country. there are a number of legal

options. declining to be more specific. i think that is exactly what is taking place right now. i want to underscore the national security implications capturinge what are the american people's attention. teamovide that transition with all the intelligence information that vice president gore was receiving. host: lack of concession is complicating security handoff, the new york times headline this morning. let's hear from iris from michigan. iris on the independent line. caller: good morning. it seems to me there is not too much security in this whole

transition stuff because the people that are changed over have to learn everything from scratch. it is like starting a new business every four years. it is always playing catch-up. it does not have a smooth flow. i never knew this occurred. i thought you got a job in the white house and it is pretty good and it gives you longevity. it does not seem to be that way. you have to change people every four years. there does not seem to be any job security. i never knew this occurred. thought a new president gets to select their own people and nobody else is involved. it is the biggest job in the world. host: there are career employees

inside the white house, to be clear. many of the people in the white house change with the new president. there are number of career employees that work in and around the white house and the office of management and budget and the entire executive branch, most of the employees are career civil servants. there is that basis of continuity and knowledge. i also would say that it is exactly right that a new president comes in to a blank slate. but it is not fully blank. we have these outside the white house transition resources, whether it is the white house transition project or a range of .ther groups there also is the memory that is there in the political party. people who have governed before

and have been in these positions before and are ready to help the new people get started. it is not quite as an abrupt transition as it might appear to be. the long transition process is important to help the new people .alk to the existing people sometimes have meanings with past people who have held various positions so they can get up to speed. >> are there any notable cases of a real reluctance of one team handoff to another, or even hijinks in the handoff between one and administration and another? -- i: there have been think in recent history, those that have been mentioned, for example, in the clinton administration moving into the george w. bush administration, all of the difficulties about w's on keyboards.

some of that was exaggerated. whether it is hijinks or disappointed folks having to leave important decisions to the other party, that makes it very difficult. typically, however, especially since the 2000 transition and after 9/11, when the national security issue became central for the new administration. since then, the transitions have been civil and on quite professionally by people on all sides. i wanted to say very quickly, we note examples where president obama met with president-elect trump three days after the election, sat down with him in the white house. that has been a norm until recently. but that seems to do is set a

mark for the rest of the administration. host: the transition handoff is entirely separate than the inaugural effort, correct? guest: exactly. the inauguration is held by different part of gsa and they work closely with the u.s. congress as well. host: let's go next to marion in south carolina. caller: good morning. my question is, on the transition subject, i don't won somed -- biden has of the states, why donald trump is trying to block the transition for people to get in earlier to have access to the different departments. it is not like bush and gore, where it was only one state. you are talking about five

states. he is not worrying about the ones he is winning to be recounts. i do not understand how it is possible he can change that many states with that amount of electoral votes. host: thank you. guest: i think that is a very good question. many legal experts are making the argument that even if some votes were pushed to the other side, probably not enough margin to change the outcome of the election. having said that, the trumpet administration might well say, things were not done with mandated recounts and there is a pending court case with pennsylvania. from their perspective, they have legitimacy and the basis

for saying, let's wait until the court cases and the recounts are finished. host: let's go back to the ascertainment issue. the gsa faces pressure to recognize an election winner, and over keys, and start transition. this is a decision the gsa administrator would make, this ascertainment regardless of whatever the president or others may say. the recognition the presidential contest is over? before,s we pointed out it is quite vague on the criteria or the metrics in making that judgment. it is worth remembering that the administrator of the gsa is a political appointee. we also know that a new general counsel took over on october between night. that man came from the white

house counsel office. one might imagine from the outside that there are a range of political partisan pressures on the gsa administrator as well of other -- as well as other points of influences. god forpraise be to c-span. say, a place where citizens can talk. later of thet and cash coordinator of the coalition. i am organizing republicans to work with biden. three of them come from states where they have moose. i want a job in the biden administration.

republican.ong i was for biden openly with letters to the editor and speaking on free speech tv. have you seen any of my letters? host: let me ask you -- he wants a position in the biden administration. if you are one of those potential 4000 that wants a job, now is the time you have to start that process. you have to submit an application. you mentioned fbi ground check. -- back on check. -- background check. guest: anyone who thinks they want to work in the biden administration, i would go to the biden transition website. think the caller from florida,

maybe as a party liaison of some sort as well. now is the time and that makes the transition process -- now is the time where the apparent eluged withtting daily\/ resumes from people who want to join administration. they are taking those resumes, having people look at them. they have a personnel operation going on for the white house and the executive branch. they are looking at all of those things. they are trying to develop policy priorities and figure out the plans for the first several weeks and months. if you are interested in working in the biden eye administration, now is the time -- biden administration, now is the time. thousands ofill be people looking for work shortly.

i think that is right. what is interesting about that is news reports are saying the will, ifdministration not fire immediately, ask people spending their time on the job looking for another job ask them to leave the administration. this is a difficult time. many people are moving out of a job and they will be on the job market looking for a related job and they have others that are anxious to join the new administration. very difficult time. people looking for good people for a position. caller: good morning. i want to visit a little bit on the role of the media in the transition. you have mentioned that the gsa

is feeling pressure. biden beingents of the apparent winner. i want to speak to the role of the media. this is a media driven process. thatow from the votes washington, d.c., voted over 93% for biden and we in oklahoma voted 70% for trump. peoples a big divide of feeding at the taxpayers trough. in theia's role constitution is being violated because the media is supposed to be an independent protector of the citizens against government corruption and government abuse. the media has declared biden the winner.

the votes were still being counted, lots of states in question. lots of issues of corruptions by detroit and philadelphia and atlanta. i would like -- >> the supreme court heard arguments in a case that could strike down the affordable care act in its entirety. -- theirpreme court decision could take health care away from 20 million americans.