and watch updates on demand c-span.org/ coronavirus. mccartney for his column. he has been on the airline and aviation beat for nearly two decades. he joins us on zoom this day before thanksgiving. despite all the public health warnings and efforts to get people to stay home, air travel has hit an eight-month high this thanksgiving. has the amount of people willing to travel surprised you? guest: not really. i think for a lot of people, there have been mixed signals about travel. you have an airline industry that is pushing hard on the notion that travel is safe. there are dangers to it. and, you know, in some ways the , a more definitive warning about thanksgiving travel came late. we have seen a bit of a falloff

in the number of people screened by tsa yesterday, down to 37% of what it was for a comparable day last year. over the weekend, it was about 45% of last year's totals, so, you know, there are a lot of people traveling. look, people really want to go. they want to be with their families or take a break. and i think, you know, they have not gotten a clear signal of what is safe and what is not. host: for folks who might be getting on an airplane today or even tomorrow to go see friends or family, what should they expect at the airport? guest: they should expect crowds. i think some people are surprised at the crowds because there has been so much attention on help -- on how few people are traveling, but on a typical tuesday before thanksgiving,

there are 2.5 million people traveling. yesterday, it was down below one million, but that is still a lot more people than you usually see. have told expect to wear your mask in the airport as well as the airplane. you should -- you are probably not going to be subjected to temperatures screenings. people wonder why that is not happening. you will go through the normal tsa checks and boarding will be different. a lot of airlines are doing smaller boarding groups, more boarding from back to front, but some airlines are doing their sort of normal procedures. and, you know, on the airplane, airflow is the key. you should expect to wear your mask all the time. and i think there're certain parts of the journey to really pay attention to.

i worry about people being on the jet bridge in a crowd where there is no ventilation. i worry about people bunching up together when they arrive at their destination and there is a sort of scrum to get out the airplane as quickly as possible. -- out of the airplane as quickly as possible. research has shown boarding itself can be more of a peril because you have people in really close proximity breathing on each other. host: if you ever had a question about flying during coronavirus or about the airline industry in general, now would be a great time to call in. scott mccartney with us from the wall street journal. middle seat is his column. if you read the wall street journal, you have likely read it at some point. if you want to join the conversation, it is (202) 748-8000 if you have flown since the pandemic started. (202) 748-8001 if you are planning to fly for thanksgiving.

(202) 748-8002 four airline industry employees -- for airline industry employees. and if those numbers are confusing, call this one (202) 748-8003. that is all others. we have split the lines that way. go ahead and join the conversation now. scott mccartney. we have that number for guest: tens of thousands. time ases all the airlines lay off more people. people.lot of what flying about half of -- they are flying about half of what you would expect around

thanksgiving. 35%re that, it was 30% or of what would be normal. --if you're't need only doing half of your business, you're only going to need half of your employees. host: to be know which airline is in the most precarious financial situation? guest: no, and i wouldn't say any of them are particularly precarious right now. airlines have loaded up on tons of cash. that taken on debt in all kinds of ways, they have mortgaged their frequent flyer programs, they have government-backed loans in some cases, they have built basically a pandemic fund to survive as long as they can with these conditions. realnk the question of

danger comes next year, comes when if this continues, airlines are betting a lot of travel will resume as being to get vaccines. is going tothink it be a race to see if the cash lasts long enough. host: is there a comparable moment in history of air travel? how has what has been happening and what is happening now compared to the months after 9/11? 9/11 is the best comparison we have but it is not a very good one. 9/11, the fix was easier after 9/11. cockpit doors on our plans, as you tightened up security, people regain cabinet -- confidence in her travel.

it didn't affect aviation globally as much as it did u.s. aviation. , the impact was short-lived. , but comparable to the pandemic, the pandemic has lasted longer. with 9/11 you had the government programsstabilization to up airlines if they could prove they needed support. -- youeral intervention had federal intervention cast to airlines as we have had through this. even the combination of 9/11 and later financial issues leading up to the great recession forced a lot of airlines into bankruptcy. after that, we got the merger of

delta and northwest, united and continental, american and u.s. air. you had a lot of consolidation in the industry. it traces back, it came several years later but had a lot of its roots in the problems of 9/11. that there is to say may be more up people in the airline industry, structurally you may see some bankruptcies. you may see mergers, things like the financial: continues. -- is the financial toll continues. host: many callers. karen from portland, oregon. good morning. guest: i just wanted to congratulate you for being a wonderful host.

i have not flown for some time. general even since is one of the weirdest things as far as how our society works. everybody is pushing, everybody is moving. inthis pandemic, flying general is even worse because everybody is moving to the front. no one is allowing people to move in the space. that is what we need to do in senseto in a broader solve this problem of the pandemic. it is not about the airlines, it is about how we all react to it. host: scott mccartney? guest: i think you make a great point. social distancing is key. the travel experience is filled with lines and deadlines.

you worry about missing this or being late for that. everybody rushes to get on the airplane because they're worried bin spaceead been -- will fill up and they have to check their back and that is a pain. you rush to get there before everybody else. it is a stress filled experience. the relaxing of social norms. airplane to board an -- my wife used to refer to it as the platinum push off were seasoned travelers elbow their way to the front of the cattle call. even when they have early boarding. right, people behave

differently when they do travel and i think they are in many ways more rude than they would in other settings. host: mark writes on twitter sing "i have flown recently in the middle seats were not taken. the problem is they served rings and snacks and no one had a mask on. --n are they going to start stop allowing food and drink on the plane?" guest: it is a difficult issue. i think it is a concern. that whenood evidence you are in flight, the ventilation in the cabin and -- cabin is quite good. not to say you don't need your rest on but it is quite good. at the same time, there are other issues. dehydration is a major issue,

you need to stay hydrated. in that sense, people do need to water when they are on an airplane. it is difficult. airlines are trying to find a andnce between service safety. suggested to readers at one point, -- people were complaining there was no service in first class so why would you want a first-class seat? you would want it because there is more room, there is more distance. maybe it is a little bit safer because somebody is not crowded around you. the desire for class becomes a safety thing rather than less lavish you with food and drink. the food andle,

drink is incredibly important. they complained loudly when airlines don't serve it -- complain loudly when airlines don't serve it. .ost: galen has flown when did you fly? june and priorin to flying i looked at the guidelines from the airline. i felt like they did a good job. while food and drink is a big deal for me, i thought it was cool they backed things up individually and give it to us as we were sitting in our seats. that was a good safety guideline they took that was good for me. also, there was a person sitting next to me but there was another open seat. they allowed people to move. i think while people are not always doing the right thing, i think the airlines themselves

trying to do the right things. i think it is important to pick the airline that you make the strides that she pick the airline that makes the right strides for you -- take the airline that makes the right strides for you. scott, is there an airline that seems to have the most comprehensive protections? is there someone who has looked into ranking those? guest: it is hard to do. you have to evaluate things like cleaning programs and all. svery airline is cleaning cabin between flights into doing a lot of surface cleaning. they sprayedy that too many chemicals and some of these can have adverse effects on people. you have to be per that you have to be careful with that, -- you

have to be careful with that, spring five or six times a day. one issue has been the middle seat and delta has said it is going to keep walking middle seats well into next year. i think march 31 is the latest date they have extended it out to. southwest was blocking middle seats but that is going to end. american and united have not been blocking middle seats. if you are really concerned about that, you can check and see what different airlines are doing on middle seats. there is great debate over whether the middle seat has an impact. we can't distance six feet on an airplane. it is not going to happen. is there areeality a lot of seating configurations noch are 2 x 2 so there is

middle seats to block. albond up elbow to elbowdy else -- elbow to with somebody else. the cabin airflow system is quite effective at taking away that canand aerosols carry virus. this is true. the ventilation on an airplane is really strong. except 50% fresh air and 50% recycled air -- you get a mixture of 50% fresh air and 50% recycled air. the recycled air runs through hospital-grade systems that can retract virus. bottom so it doesn't carry things across the

cabin, it takes them to the floor. that is exactly what you want. be aight, the cabin can safe environment. it is safer airflow than groceries and restaurants. the concern is that you are a lot closer to other people than you would be at a restaurant or grocery store or public setting. there have been cases of transmission on airplanes. in june one developing to zeeland where there were not many people on the airplane and yet one person who tested negative couple day before infected and spread the virus to four other people on the same flight. we don't know if that happened the bathroom of the airport that car placet the rental

or whatever it might be. we know that the research has found four people were infected via another passenger -- infected by another passenger. there is a risk to it and i think you can minimize the risk of taking some precautions. you have to be attentive to what the airline is doing and what -- is doing. host: for airline employees, 202-748-8002. russell is on that line. you are on with scott mccartney. i don't want to come down on people but no one is discussing the elephant in the room. everything that has been said so the safetyd except of the passengers and the crew

on board the aircraft is the elephant in the room. feetu're flying at 30,000 but you have the comfort, the artificial comfort of an environment at 8000 or 9000 feet is because you are in a pressurized situation. the aircraft is pressurized. ironically, and i'm looking forward on my phone but i can't find it as quickly as i need to for this call, i read an article on this subject. a number of people in the industry have started to admit that they cannot vouch for the safety of the air circulated in the aircraft. -- they't about fort can't vouch for it. and that makes sense. everything said about the areas where people gather in the

airport, at the jet waste, at the baggage check, waiting to get on the aircraft, all of is valid -- all of that is valid. host: can i ask how long you have worked in industry and what you do? caller: i am a pilot, i have thousands of hours. i have been flying since i was a kid. host: have you been flying through all of this? caller: not much. very little, but some. guest: i'm sure i'm not sure what he is implying but yes the cabin is pressurized. i have not heard anyone saying they cannot vouch for the quality of the airflow. the filters on airplanes are quite good, quite robust,

changed on a regular basis. there probably more effective as they get dirty, the many layer's of the filter trap more contaminants. been lots of studies on this, the quality of the air in the cabin when the plane is in flight is quite good. and i think one thing to remember as you look at this is i have paid close attention to infection rates for print groups at airlines, particularly flight attendants. flight attendants are the canary in the coal mine, if there is problem in the coal -- any cabin , flight attendants who work -- you would long expect higher infection rate but

that hasn't happened. flight attendants at several airlines that have talked about for and the major unions flight attendants have said that infection rates for flight attendants are lower than other work groups at airlines. baggage handlers are not in the cabin and get baggage handlers have a higher infection rate at several airlines. think you could have some comfort that the cabin environment itself can be safer than other situations. there is a lot of technology about this. this is not the first pandemic. aviation suffers in any outbreak. whether it was bird flu or you

-- it is not just the environment itself but that the airplane can be the transporter of the illness. infected person from one area to another and deliver the virus or whatever the disease is. that is a particular problem for aviation. aircraft many factors happen working -- aircraft manufacturers have been working a long time on the issue. even the common cold, how do we keep people from getting sick when they fly? that is why airflow is so robust. that is why there is so much filtering of the air in the cap. host: about 25 minutes left with scott mccartney. forrites the middle seat: the wall street journal -- the middle seat column for the wall street journal.

before this happened, how often were you flying to write for this column? bit for fly quite a different reasons. when you cover travel, you better travel. i don't write about my own travels but i do travel to talk to travelers, to visit different airlines, to go to to different places where i am doing stories. it is important for me to travel on multiple airlines and all of that. host: how many flights have you taken since coronavirus? since: -- guest: coronavirus i've taken two. >> where to? washington, d.c. -- i live in dallas. host: do you have a most

memorable flight? one of my favorite , i was doingories a report on the worst flight in america. we were looking at the most unreliable, the most inconvenient, the most overcrowded, all kinds of different factors. i was flying what you're going to label "worst flight in america." everything was on time, it was running perfectly. froms a delta flight atlanta to west palm beach on an old airplane that often broke down. i talked to a bunch of passengers before we boarded. we boarded, everything was on time, everything was going great.

we got out to the end of the runway and you heard a [makes noise]. there was a hydraulic problem and we had to go back to the gate. someone stood up and pointed at me across the cabin and said "now you have got a story." [laughter] how relieved iu was to have a mechanical problem on a flight. host: scott mccartney with us taking your air cost -- taking your phone calls. way --ines lit up this if you have flown since the pandemic, 202-748-8000. if you're planning to fly for thanksgiving, 202-748-8001. airline industry employees, 202-748-8002. all others, 202-748-8003. robert on that line for all others. thank you for having my

call. i has been covered since initially called in. the findings that this virus is than originally thought and focused on droplets in a cabin and airflow and what risk that poses for asters -- for passengers is going to be outdated. also airports, do they have the type of air exchange with fresh that thehe filtration plane does. planeing on the size of a , what spokes on a hub. you're likely to spend more time on a layover then you are in an airplane.

the airport becomes more risky. host: i know you covered a bit of that earlier, but it does ring up a column you recently -- it does bring up a column he recently wrote. it talks about flying during winter and the extra covid wildcard. do you want to take us through that? guest: yeah and i can talk about the airports, too. the ice is a concern. airplane gets de-iced, you shut the engines down and take -- and shut down intake of fresh air. you're only getting half of the ventilation you would normally get. the industry has made a point of saying the robust ventilation is what keeps you safe.

if it is only half as robust, that is a concern. there are other factors with it. memos and boeing issued to pilots. in airbus, you can turn the that elation system from normal to high and they recommend that in deicing, in boeing it is off or on. they never require the ventilation beyond during the de-icing. thatissued a middle about -- a memo about that. it gets quiet and still and it would seem like the perfect time to drink that cup of coffee you bought at the airport, but it is not. it is a time you need to keep your mask on. some of the public health people i talked to say to keep it on at least 15 minutes on after engines restart to give several

exchanges of air in the cabin before you take your mask off. that cup of coffee at the airport as a whole other issue. the ventilation in airports is not as good as on airplanes. some airports -- as office buildings are, are looking at uv systems that might kill virus that you can put on the air conditioning ducts, different things like that. the whole question of congregating is as serious an issue in an report as on an herb lame -- as on an airplane. you do get people lining up for coffee, you get people lining up for food and other things.

the caller brought up connections, we are going to spend more time in airports. there are fewer direct flights. outschedules are so thinned that there layover for your connecting flight maybe longer -- that your layover for your tactics flight might be longer. that means more time at the airport. i think people need to be with the careful in airports. you think there are high ceilings, it is a big open area, that doesn't necessarily mean that the person two >> on c-span's "washington journal" this morning, matt warner discusses the effectiveness of foreign aid to alleviate poverty in countries

affected by the coronavirus. then it is the founder and president of storycorps on "one stall step." -- small step." watch "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. eastern the thursday morning and be sure to join the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts and tweets. >> book tv on c-span two has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up this weekend, saturday at 9:00 p.m. eastern, former president barack obama reflects on his life and political career in his newly released memoir, "a promised land." open markets institute director sally hubbard and her book, "monopolies suck." she is interviewed by david mclaughlin. appellate judge and george mason university law professor douglas ginsberg and his book, "voices of our

republic," examines our constitution through the eyes of judges, legal scholars, and historians. watch book tv on c-span2 this weekend and be sure to watch "in-depth" live sunday with our guest, author, and share of african-american studies at princeton university. >> tuesday, treasury secretary steven mnuchin and federal reserve chairman jerome powell testify before the senate banking committee. they will provide an update on emergency measures to provide relief from the economic downturn triggered by the coronavirus pandemic. watch live coverage of the hearing tuesday en c-span3, online, or listen online wherever you are -- listen live wherever you are with the c-span radio app. >> next, a discussion on the history of american gun culture from ucla's school of public affairs. this runs an hour and a half.