foundation for the defense of democracies' benham ben talebu on escalating tensions between the u.s. and iran and future relations under a biden administration. washington journal" is next. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] host: good morning. this is the "washington journal" for november, 27. on this day, typically known for shopping. we want to ask you about the state of your finances and if it's been impacted by covid-19. our recent census bureau shows employment and it would take three months to a year to recover lost finances. with that in mind, went to talk to you about your financial situation because of covid. if you want to tell us, call us at 202-748-8000. if you live in the mountain and

pacific time zones, 202-748-8001. perhaps you find yourself unemployed and you want to share your story, 202-748-8002. and if you are a business owner and want give your perspective as well, call us at 202-748-8003 you can use that same number to text us this morning and you can post at our social media sites, twithtwiment our facebook is facebook.com/cspan. the market watch's website paints a picture of what the potential of a second surge in covid could mean for finances. you can find it online but here's some of the things they talk about the economy adding 638,000 jobs in the jobless rate dropping to 6.9% in october and even on the heels of a strong jobs report, some economists say there were red lights ahead in november. if rising coronavirus cases crypt, rehiring and more shutdown orders adding that minnesota imposed a four-week

shutdown order stoorningt the november 20. philadelphia took a similar step in the week of ending november 14. initial jobless claims are up for the first time in more than a month the 742,000 claim beat the 710,000 claim predicted by economists talking to market watch. they were either behind on their rent or mortgage or had little or no confidence they could make up that payment on time next month. it crept from 7.2% that in late august. they give you a chart on some of the questions they posed to people about their finances, especially during covid. and the question when it comes to savings saying for many relying on savings after losing income was never an option. they said that 20% had no

emergency savings to start with. 18% of americans don't expect to run out of savings and likely because they have a month income and then also looking at income adding that 38% of americans turn to other means to make those ends meet. they include 401k withdraws, or borrowing from friends and family. and shows you some of the statistics out there. so when it comes to this topic of personal finance and particularly how it's been impacted by covid, you want to share with us your situation, you can give us a call. 202-748-8000 if you live in the eastern central time zones. 202-748-8001. for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. if you are unemployed, call us at 202-748-8002 and for the business owners out there, give us a call at 202-748-8003. you can use that same line by the way if toupt text us, your thoughts this morning. all you have to do, put your name, your city and your state and text us at 202-748-8003.

it was on matters of the economy where the president-elect biden was meeting with the national guards association and talked about those concerns about the coronavirus pandemic and particularly in matters of the economy here's what he had to say back then. president-elect biden: we discussed a number of critical ways we can work together and. first, delivering economic leave to the city, states and travel communities. a there's no revenue from covid and the cost of covid -- is devastating. we've got to come together, the federal government has to deliver this relief sooner rather than later and the reflect for the state to meet their needs. this includes helping business, schools, working families, from unemployment to early education, conned access to affordable health care, all of that is needed during this pandemic. states and communities shouldn't

have to lay off teachers. cops, firefighter, cut vital services for families and usinesses. host: christine python from facebook posts no hazard pay for essential workers at my hospital. cutting the matching funds for our 403b retirement plan cost of everything is rising. adding that there hasn't been a raise in 10 years. and then jeremy from facebook saying what is money? i forgot what it looks like. i haven't seen it since march. your call starting off in brentwood, california. todd starts us off on this question of finances during covid. todd, thanks for calling. go ahead. caller: yeah, hi. i'm a retired public school teacher here in northern california. so i'm doing extremely well, you know? i finished as a school teacher making about 90,000 a year for 181 days of work and our pension has tripled, social security. we have extremely generous

medical benefits, following us into retirement. i always that it was kind of a myth. i thought we were paid extremely well. i had so many students come into my class didn't know how to had fraction and one thing they've learned was that teachers were underpaid. host: do you worry about the impact of the economy overall on the portfolio that's based on where your retirement is going to take a hit at any time? caller: i knew you would interrupt me trying to make a point. ou significantly interrupt me. host: are you worried about your portfolio? ok. we'll move on. this is tony in brownsville, texas. tony, thanks for calling. you're up. caller: hi, pedro. good morning.

to that first caller, just ignore him. anyway, if trump did what obama did in the -- [indiscernible] that we would be even in better hape in the economy. that's what best majority voted for biden because trump is a disaster. host: how would you describe your situation when it comes to personal finances? caller: horrible. bad. horrible. i've been homeless. i experience homeless and it's bad. i dislike being homeless. it's sad. it's sick. it's not -- it's bad. being homeless, i want to kill myself to be honest with you. that's the reality of life. i don't want to be homeless.

host: when you describe yourself as hopeless then, where are you staying at then currently? are you there? let's go to samuel. waukesha, wisconsin. an unemployed person. thanks for calling, samuel. good morning. caller: hello. so today marks like the i think three-month anniversary -- well, not really anniversary but the three-month mark where i lost my . b last year working retail -- 66th birthday. host: that's waukesha, wisconsin. again, some people sharing their perspectives on this idea of finances during covid. and you're welcome to add yours to the mix as well if you want. joshua ashburn from facebook. talked about his situation in talking about his hours. saying they've been cut every day and he's worried about being laid off. and then michael in portland,

oregon, texting us this morning, adding that he's retired. so that revenue streams has been untouched so far. prosperous beyond our merits. so we try to practice sustainable philanthropy and support of struggling businesses and causes. no one who has the means should be stingy at this time. again, if you're one of those business owners, you want to give us your perspective on is, you can call us at 202-748-8003 and give your perspective there. if you're unemployed as well, 202-748-8002. minneapolis, minnesota. gregory is there. gregory, hello. caller: yes. good morning. how are you doing this morning? i need to respond to what is going on about finances. i am a caricature artist. i need people to be around for my business to flourish. nd this president that's

o-called president fails that. feels like he's a pardoning himself and that's not his job. i didn't vote for him and i'm still his boss. he needs to understand that. host: so what kind of business were you doing before the pandemic and what are you doing now? caller: i was an independent basically, just in between -- my job have to deal with people directly. this is where i get my rain showers -- resource. as an artist, when you caricature, you have to deal with people one-on-one. you have to have contact. of course, you could do it online and whatnot, but the essence is you have to deal with people 202-748-8001. and -- one-on-one. and this economy has affect me to the point that i have

basically, i don't have a vocation. because i'm isolated and i have to stay inside. and that whole thing. host: is there a way to apply your skills to other similar types of jobs? caller: absolutely. absolutely. but in essence as i was indicating, you know, you have to deal with people one-on-one. and there is a compromise basically. it does cut it off a little bit but what you're saying is, you know, alternative ways of doing with it. yes. but the quality of my work has been affected, immensely. and i just hold this person responsible. host: allen is in illinois.

good morning. you were next. talking about finances and covid-19. allen, thanks for calling. go ahead. caller: thank you very much for having me. i appreciate it. i am a retired teacher from illinois. and we have a pension that's supposed -- opposed to 401k and i feel very secure with the pension program that we have in illinois for our teachers. our former -- i mean our oldtime retired teachers, i'm 74 years old. the newer teachers coming in are ot going to have a quite nicer pension the teachers punching the burden -- trying to figure out what they're going to do for their retirement is really a bad situation. a good pension program is worthwhile. host: that's allen in illinois. gina is in mississippi. gina, thanks for calling. you're next. caller: good morning. host: morning. caller: my husband and i are retired. so it really hasn't affected us

very much to covid but i just want to say to all of you trump bashers out there, trump is not the problem. trump is not the reason for the virus. your democratic governors and mayors, they're shutting down the city are the reason you're having financial problems. host: so gina, when it comes to your retirement then, you're pretty secure. you'll think it's consistent even though no matter how the economy does? caller: at this time, i do, yes. but, yeah, i just don't understand what is happening to the mentality of people. the virus is not caused by trump. host: ok. caller: it is a natural occurrence. host: ok. you made that point. gina in mississippi. one of the things that are talked about at this time of the year particularly congress still has to yet pass another additional amount of resources when it comes to coronavirus

pandemic resources. here are some of the packages et to expire according to cnn. december 30 or 31. they would include the expanded unemployment benefits program, student loan fear beerns program, paid family leave benefits, eviction program and coronavirus funds for state and local government, either on the 30th of next month or the 31st of next month when it talks about that second relief package. it was recently that mitch mcconnell talked about the potential of another relief package and for covid. and here's what he has to say. senator mcconnell: -- host: so we'll show you that in a second. we'll hear from paul though. paul this washington, d.c. paul, good morning. i'll push the button. let's go, paul in washington, d.c., good morning. caller: good morning, pedro.

i'm doing fine here in d.c. because i'm an adjunct professor. and so i continue to get paid although i have to work three times as hard to teach via zoom. i do think though that in general, the professional classes media and politicians, of course, are all doing fine. the refrigerator trucks are already rolling into d.c. so i'm sure the vaccines are going to be ready for the political class very soon, not already. but i wonder what's happening with other people. i think it's quite bad and when inflation hits, as i fully expect, when we're certainly going to be up the creek. host: let me ask you then, because you teach online and for people who don't teach. you say it was three times harder. what makes it harder? caller: it's just very hard to

reach people when you don't see their faces. on zoom, you can if you look at an individual person. but if you have a whole class, you don't really see the faces. and there are message that you can use to indicate things. there's chat and so forth. but just trying to keep in mind the content of the subject -- i do mathematics -- and the reception of the audience is already sufficient mental load. and if you try to keep in mind a half a dozen other special features of software, it's -- can't be done. and i can see from the difficulty of the students, only because i take the extra time to link with them separately and have conversations as needed am i able to get the material across. even though they pay me very little as a person who is concerned with doing a good job, i nevertheless do what's

required, even though i don't get paid for it like writing letters of recognition and so on. and each one requires a zoom call. so the only good thing of the pandemic seems to be that we can do international communications a whole lot better. that's a good thing.. but we're not fighting the pandemic with intelligent means, although the president, president trump did bring up the only good idea that i've heard so far and that is to use light, especially ultraviolet and sterilization. it's suppressed by the media. host: as an adjunct professor, this is in your main means of employment. do you have any other resources then, if i may ask? caller: occasionally, i do consulting but i really enjoy mathematics. so i manage to just get by on -- i have a very, very low income but i have very low expenses. this will be extremely difficult

if there is rampant inflation. and with poor financial management as i fully expect if we have a different regime come in, as there will be massive inflation and then it's going to be -- i don't know what will happen then. host: ok, paul, telling his story and his finances when it comes to how they've been impacted by covid. host: i promised you mitch mcconnell talking about that relief scompleags what a future of that legislation might be, here's what he had to say. >> based on what i'm seeing publicly because we've had no private discussions about this. and it looks to me like the speaker, the democratic leader of the senate and former vice president biden all have a view that $2.5 trillion or nothing. i share the view of my

colleagues which has been expressed here is that a more narrowly targeted proposal such as was laid out in september and october here in the senate deals with the actual problem. as some of you may or may not have noticed, revenues, at the state level are up almost everywhere. and i continue to insist apparently on almost $1 trillion on state and local government. that has nothing to do with solving this problem. so to sum it up, i'm open to a targeted bill, roughly of the amount that we recommended, a half a trillion dollars, which is nothing. narrowly targeted at schools, at health care providers, at p.p.e. and liability reform to keep network from being engaged in an

epidemic of losses on the heel of a pandemic very open to that but i've seen no evidence yet as several of my colleagues have suggested that they're open to it. host: the business insider story that i showed you earlier has a series of charts and one of the questions asked by the organization bank rate back in june of this year talked about how long will it take for households to financially recover from covid-19. 17% saying it's already back to normal. less than one month, 7% of those, one month less than three month, 17%, 18% for both saying it will take three to six months and six to 12 months for those to recover. and then 19% of those saying it would take a year or longer. only 4% saying it would never recover to the same extent. again, those calculations done by bank rate. you can see that story at business provider. reading, pennsylvania, peter, you are up next.

hello. caller: hi. hold on now. let me take you off speaker. yes. i'm a construction worker. i work seasonal. and through the winter months, we don't work. with i've made less than half of what i normally make this year, but i'm grateful for that because i have buddies that didn't hardly work at all this year. and i have a month left of unemployment. and as we head into winter months or the weather, i oil heat my home. so i'm going to be struggling to put oil in my house. and just to hear what mr. mcconnell said is ridiculous. he doesn't see these food lines. he doesn't see what's going on because he doesn't drive by people that have to live like that. and it's so unfair, you know? the republicans and their crumbs they try to throw around and

they act like they're doing you a favor. i work hard for my money. i'm a union member, and we work hard. we try to build roads and bridges for this country. this is america. we can do a lot better than this. thank you. host: ralph is next, from negotiate. -- new york state. ralph, hello. caller: good morning, pedro. yeah, i'm a writer tax preparer. and when the pandemic hit, they had to move my site. i work within a health center. and i lost all of our volunteers because we work with volunteers, you know, college students and retired people. and they had to move my site because it's right in the area where they're going to do a testing in a health center. so i had to move to another part of the building. so i lost everybody except for another people. so it impacted a lot of people that couldn't got their taxes prepared because all the vital sites of our area and the aarp sites are also closed down and i

was the only one open. i don't really run a business. it's a service on the community. and a lot of taxpayers that couldn't get their taxes prepared and there's a lot of mouth there in my area that never got them -- a lot of them out there that never got them completed. host: do you have a sense of whatever you saw as normal before the pandemic? caller: well, i'm in a different building now. and where i can be separated from the public, so it just all depends if the college students, if the professors and parents, they have to sign off to allow them to work at the sites. so it's going to be a tough tax season, i'm anticipating. host: this is from texas. we will hear from john in belton. hello. caller: hello, peyton. good morning. host: good morning. caller: how are you? >> fine, thank you. how about yourself? caller: oh, hanging on the best i can, thank the lord for that.

but i wanted to respond to the lady that called from mississippi and referenced to the pandemic. -- know, this stuff was host: well, before you referenced the lady specifically, what about the state of finances? what's your experience so far because of the pandemic? caller: yes. you know, i'm disabled but, you know, i used to get out and cut lawns and trim the -- take care of lawn care and stuff, you know for a friend of mine that have a business. host: and your thing that's been affected since the start or it slowed down or is it the same? how would you describe it? caller: yes, it's the start, you know? she's talking about this pandemic, you know, trump didn't start this. i think it was made here in america.

you know what i mean? and he had plenty of opportunities to be aware of what was going on. this started in october. host: ok. john in belton, texas, also give some advice of those of you listening and waiting on the phone, if you want to participate, you would just turn down your television the end si is to watch the television or listen to the television rather than the phone and went to keep this conversation rolling as smoothly as possible. so if you can do that, we would appreciate it. phillip saying i feel lucky but for the millions of people who have lost their jobs and businesses due to political and bureaucratic maturations surrounding the pandemic. bill in connecticut, saying i'm a playwright. my play opened in a big theater in paris in february. had to close in march. no royalties from there or anywhere for months all theater artists are in a kind of forced temporary retirement.

this is george in chicagoful saying the travel agency, i am self-employed. our income has completely dried up since march of 2020. unemployment benefits were decreased by $600 per week recently. we cannot afford utility bills our home and the car. the restart is undetermined. adding the republican refusal to approve a bill first of all the house and the president was sarcastic, narcissistic and sarcastic with sociopathic tendencys and adding help, help now. if you haven't to text us, text us at 202-748-8003. or facebook.com/cspan. and you can also tweet us @c-spanwj. you heard mitch mcconnell talking about second package. the organization known as the committee for responsible federal budget has kept the tracking of covid spending. you can go to the website for more information but they also

tracked uncommitted legislative fund that were initially approved but uncommitted. claiming $532 billion of the p.p.p. lion through the program through the economic injury disaster loans adding that the federal reserve has only tapped $195 billion out of $454 billion to establish mergency lending facilities. $637 billion programs when it comes to uncommitted funds. you can find more information and how they're spent for the budget. ray in kentucky in worthville. hello. caller: hello, sir. good morning. yeah, i just like to be say that i work construction for 25 years . made real good money. .his pandemic has ruined me

in march, you know, there was a massive lead-off. and i had to go to -- lay off and i had to go to work making $10 an hour. and basically, still am making $10 an hour, which is about 12,000 a year. so, i don't know. host: so i'm sorry, did you say it was home construction or what type of construction? caller: oh, i'm sorry. heavy highway work. construction. host: ok. and so is it money that typically comes from state or locality that basically fund the work that you do or am i wrong? caller: yes, that is correct. state and government. you know, it's a good paying job. it was. but, you know, because of covid, you know, i had to either go on nemployment or find a job. and, you know, at that time, the $10 an hour job was all that was

out there. host: let me ask, if i may, have you been through these kind of slowdowns before and do you find the work eventually comes back or is this time different for you? caller: yes. i don't know. something was different. i think because of the election year, i don't know. this wasn't there -- just wasn't there. i don't know. and the thing of it is, i was a trump supporter, but kind of chose biden and only on one comment he made, that he would anst the minimum wage to $15 hour. so, you know? hopefully, it works out. host: ray in kentucky, talking about his work in highway construction and what he's experiencing currently for about a half-hour, we heard the stories and people commenting as

well. we'll continue on. the lines are divided where if you live in the eastern central time zones, call us at 202-748-8000. the mountain and pacific time zones, 202-748-8001 perhaps that you want to call us and you are nemployed as some have called, 202-748-8002. and you can do one of two things on the fourth line, if you're a business line, give us your perspective at 202-748-8003 or text us your thoughts at that number two. and then just include your name you city and your safety we'll hear from dean next, in chino valley, arizona. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i'm well, thank you. how about yourself? caller: not too bad. as far as our individual situation here, my wife and i, we're not doing too bad. i have a small pension, very small. and social security and my wife is a school teacher. that's where the problem lies. with kids coming to school and

then being sent home. e works an average of six to eight hours a week because of the shutdown. right now, it's not too bad. the kids are back to school. but it looks like we're headed back to another online session, where it's real hard on all the teachers and they're working additional hours that's not in their contract. we've also done some little bit of remodeling in our house recently. and i personally am buying the lumber and the two-by-fours is costing somewhere in the for aorhood of $6.70 each eight foot two-by-four and a year ago it was only $2.50. the other thing is you talked about the covid relief funds that are drying up at the end of the year. the town near to us, we live in the county, the town near to us,

took their police funds to pay for road improvements. and they're taking the covid funds to fund the police department. i guess there's nothing illegal about it. but everybody's scamming somewhere. we got to get back to opening up the country, give being people a choice to go to the businesses, the restaurants, the stores that they want to and the stores have the choice of deciding whether or not to let people in. we can't keep shutting down the country or we're never going to get anywhere. host: ok. dean, giving us a story from chino valley, arizona. thank you, dean, for the call. if you go to gallup, they talk about those americans within the pandemic that actually save money during this time, saying it's a slim majority saying they're saving at least a little money and this is what they do to it. when asked the question what do

you blan to do with your increased savings over the next six months? 7. % of those saying they would continue to add the savings. 28% saying they would spend it on basic goods and/or services only 13% saying they'll spend on it a future vacation or personal travel. and then 10% of those -- this was done in august of this year, saying that they would use it to pay off existing debt. but there's more to this at the gallup site if you want to take a look there. and if you want to tell us how you're doing with that, you can call ounce the lines too that best represent you. samantha in washington, d.c. good morning, you're next. caller: yes, good morning. thanks for taking my call. i'm just wondering when will reality is going to set in. there's money that has been appropriated that mnuchin has decided he does not want to be

spent on the american public. and i believe it was that the money was in the fair to be distributed to banks so that they could help people and he's demanded that he gets the money back before the end of the year. in the meantime, you go back and look at the money he's given to many people who did not need it, organizations and so-called entities, corporations, who have done nothing but buy back their own stock and have inflated their profits. when we look at the leader in the senate, i think we need to look at what has happened with money in the covid and loeffler,s, senators,

perdue, in north carolina, in particular and it's not anything for the american people. it's the republican scam that they are to be the rich. and everybody else including the people who supported them. they don't care about them. they care about lining their portfolios and their profits and we need to know how much money mitch mcconnell has been taking n in his negotiating and bringing russian companies into kentucky, which is one of the poorest states in the country. host: ok. that's samantha in washington, d.c. he is moving that unspent money into a fund. and the biden administration cannot deploy by congress, that

includes money that treasure secretary is yanking from the federal reserve and unused loans for companies. they will be deposited into the general fund which requires legislative approval to use that money elsewhere. business insider saying the move according to experts be likely undercut the ability of mnuchin's likely successor, janet yellen from restarting eds lending program. here is what nancy pelosi had to say. >> and another misguided responsibility, secretary mnuchin had said he would end many critical emergency lending initiatives at the end of the year. now why would they do that? drawing a rare rebuke from the

senate. that really speaks out. as the fed said in a statement, it would prefer the full sweep of emergency facilities -- excuse me, facilities established during the coronavirus pandemic to continue to serve their important role as a backstop for a still strained and vulnerable economy. the fed. the fed. would prefer the full sweep of emergency facilities to establish during the coronavirus pandemic continue to serve their important role as a backdrop for a still strained and vulnerable economy. it is highly unusual for the fed to comment in that manner on something said by the secretary of the treasury. gain, why? because they want to impede the ability to have the next

administration to have everything available to them. host: we will hear from timothy in largo, florida. good morning. you're next up. caller: hello. good morning. his is tim lewis from largo, florida. i know that on tv before. i have nearly been affected all worse by the pandemic. the only thing that happened is changed jobs because at instacart, i get paid better than my second job. i still kept my first job at publix. they hired too many part-time people and i was down to 14 hours. that was a week in some cases. host: how -- instacart as a job treating you? caller: well, instacart cart start going down dramatically on the hours due the fact got their jobs back or went back to work. so i ended up getting a third

job at family dollar and work at instacart to pay for my car insurance. host: timothy in largo telling his story. we will hear from matt from maryland. hi. caller: how. how are you? host: i'm well. how about yourself? caller: i'm hanging in there. i'm a business owner in maryland . and this pandemic has hit us in an entirely unique way. so we're basically competing against unemployment, you know, to employing people. we've got an attitude out there of why when i can make as much or more money by not working? and from an employer's perspective, we're having to strive so much just to make, you know, ends meet, just to make payroll, just to make what we

were making prior to the pandemic starting that i got not be honest with you. dumping more money into the, you know, into the p.p.p., all that stuff the $2.5 trillion that the democrats want to spend, it's going to put people like me out of business. basically, we won't have the workforce to be able to do our obs. host: what kind of business do you do? caller: we're a remodeling business. we are in and out of their homes it is already difficult to convince customers and guys to expose them and us to each other on a regular basis. so it's just a very difficult time. i mean, we're better off than some throughout the country and so i'm very thankful for that. but i think just moving forward, this reckless throwing money, you know, like it grows on trees just is -- you know, at this point, my work ethic and our

skill set is the most valuable thing that we have, you know, when we work hard to save money, to put money away, to be financially responsible as a business, you know. when that does, it sets us apart because everybody else is being handed money like it grows on trees. it becomes frustrating from our end, and almost discouraging to a point where you just want to kind of give in and play the game that everybody else is playing. host: matt in edge water, maryland, is a remolder. one other aspect of the economy to some then stock market, "wall street journal" reporting this morning the s&p 500 currently on track to end this week near record high saying that futures tied to the dow industrial average index is ahead of the short trading sessions the blue chips breached the 30,000 milestone for the first time in history before sliding lower on wednesday. trading was suspended thursday

for the thanksgiving holiday. this has the contract ticking up suggesting that it may raise his tepid loss on wednesday. when it comes do that dow hitting $30,000 and above. the president comment on the state of the dow and here's what he had to say. president trump: i just want to congratulate everybody. the stock market, daniel jones -- do you jerry jones just hit 30,000. that is the highest in history and that's despite everything that's taken place with the pandemic. i'm very thrilled with what's happened on the vaccine front. nothing like that has happened medically and people are acknowledging that and is having a big effect. but the stock market just broken 30,000. never been broken, that number that's a sacred number, 30,000. nobody thought they would ever see it. that's the ninth time since the

beginning of 2020 and it's the 48th time that we have broken records in during the trump administration. and i just want to congratulate all the people within the administration that worked so hard and most importantly, i want to congratulate the people of our country. host: text from chris he lives in puerto rico. and he is saying he's retired, saying that how the pandemic affected my finances help my finances. i did not have many places to discretionary spending. -- expending. i still gave as much support to local businesses and other small retailers as i could help them keep afloat. and get taxes. we will have to get raised. the borg that we've done. matthew in des plaines, illinois, saying i've been blessed to have money coming in even landed a new job. my finance has kept disappearing from my account. and most on the income is going

towards medical debt. the covid-19 pandemic is eating away at my health. i need another stimulus check adding stay strong, america. have faith in god and all will be well. scott from georgia. scott in georgia, hello. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you, peyton? host: i'm well, thank you. go ahead. caller: i am a health insurance broker. and i thought i would have a major drop in income when this first happened, but surprisingly, everything has been steady. i have not had an increase in money but i've certainly haven't had a decrease. very thankful for that. some of your other callers have mentioned i have adjusted what i do. i don't travel. i stay local. i may go an hour or two away for the beach. i don't go to games and concerts. and entertainment type functions. so actually, i've probably ended

up with a net savings because of my spending. i've actually put more money in my home. i've fixed a roof that i should have fixed a while back and we eat more family meals. we like to get back out little bit but there's actually been -- we feel like there's been some good things that have come from this pandemic as far as the family's concerned. host: i use the term normal in parenthesis but once things get back to normal, do you think those practices will continue about not spending or do you think you'll loosen up or go back to before? what do you think? caller: i think it'll be a gradual thing. i've been surprised that i hadn't missed things that i thought i would. i don't see myself doing any international travel for instance. i want to stay -- i do. i'm for sure going to stay more local. i think over time, i'm sure i'll loosen up some and want to live my lifestyle prior to but i see some advantages of this. i don't go -- i was a big

football fan. i used to go to all the games and now, i just don't miss it as much. i've found other things to do. and that is something a lot of these, you know, pro sports and that type of things, they're going to have to think about that because i don't think i'm the only one that looks at it that way. host: that's scott in georgia, giving us his perspective. being in georgia, a short sidebar, too talk about the two senate run-off races "the wall street journal" highlights the efforts on the republican in this matter. saying mitch mcconnell and the senator from indiana, todd young have told colleagues each of them need to help perdue and loeffler keep their seats for the january 5 races. senators are traveling to the states to rally voters and tapping their own doeren list to raise money and the races are already set to hit $300 million. the opinion pages of "u.s.a.

today," an op-ed from the secretary of state of georgia who's been in the news much because of the recounting and accountings going there. under the headline, trump threw me and my family under the bus he said georgia had a widely successful and smooth election. we finally defeated voting lines and put behind fulton county for disastrous election. this should be something for georgians to celebrate burks those wondering mine lost. my family voted for him, donated to him and are now being thrown under the bus by him. elections are the bed rock of our democracy. there needs to be runned fairly and more important, impartially. that's not part partisan, that's just american. yet some don't seem to see it that way. more on the thoughts of the secretary of state georgia if

you go to "u.s.a. today." terrence in germantown, maryland. hello. caller: hello. i'm actually, i feel like i'm doing better than most since i got the stimulus, i've been able to be save most of that money for like car repairs and medical bills to be honest with you. but i've been -- i see my salary go up since covid start because i'm working non-normal hours at my job. so i get a bonus for doing that. i'm not traveling as much. i can work from home if i need to. i'm saving money doing that. and since i'm not going on vacation and visit family, i'm saving money doing that. and i admit i'm feeling better than most people. host: what kind of work that you do? caller: i so i.t., tech support for the i.t. company in the area. we're essentially essential employees. we have to be available to their their phone calls if they have any questions about our software. so i spent thanksgiving on the weekends and holidays. by helping out our clients.

host: terrence in jerry tantown, maryland. next is keith. keith in new jersey. hello. caller: hi. i have two comments. but i'm retired and my wife just recently retired. and i think actually, we probably spend less money because we haven't traveled at all. we are probably not gone on a 50-mile radius since march. but i always wanted to comment about one of the contracter who said that he can't get employees because they're willing to take unemployment. i don't know about you, but anybody who collects unemployment and finds that be more money than they would get by working, they're clearly not getting paid enough at their job. i think he should pay people more we have had work done in our place and the contractors say they're crazy busy. and they should clear i will be able to find people that are willing to work if they get paid a decent wage. host: i was going to ask him

what he's experiencing is they're doing their own home repairs. i think you're relying on contractors for this though. caller: yes. we've done some things ourself. my wife is busy stage a bunch of cabinets. we've had paintings and electrical work done and we all say that they've been as busy as they've ever been. host: we had a caller, the same one or the one before talked about spending habits do you envision a change after some normalcy comes back to americans, at least for yourself as far as your spending of money? caller: yes, i would. we've done international travel perhaps once a year for the past four or five years. and that's been out of the picture clearly since covid started. and i don't anticipate it resuming until 2021, probably. host: keith in new jersey giving us a call, telling us about his situation the business insider story that i showed you with the

charts. it also charted with how americans are spending before the pandemic, tracking back to august of 2019. and then going forward to august, 2020, to compare and contrast. more people spending money for electronics a year later. home furniture, and home appliances as far as increases in spending. but if you look at vacations in 2019 of august, 30% of those saying that they were spending their money for a vacation. compare that to august of 2020, only 12.6% of those. when it comes to vehicles, 11% of those say they were saving for that last year. only 8.3% this year. and home replayers, just about the same with a little more spending this year than previous. there's a lot of charts there to too with that story if you want to look at that and see how people were talking about their finances and looking at charts for that. let's go to darrsheen in new

york who is unemployed. hello. caller: yes, hi. i'm calling in before i told them we need a second stimulus check because there are single parent like me who have three kids, five kids, and it's never enough money. i don't think they're looking at it the right way. we're not lazy people. we're just drown to the -- minimum wage is so low and we need another stimulus check to get back on our feet. we don't want to sit home and collect unemployment but we need it right now we're in a pandemic. host: what kind of work did you do before you found yourself unemployed? caller: i was a carpenter. host: and as far as -- when it come it is a second stimulus, if it were to come, what would you think you're spending most ho of that at? caller: on food. and then my rent and taking care of my children, buying new clothes and trying to get them back in daycare.

ost: michael is in maryland in williamsport, a small business owner. hi, michael. caller: how are you? host: i'm well. caller: i got not be honest, i don't think we need another stimulus check. months. ads on for six i can't get anyone to show up for an interview. host: why do you think that is? caller: i think everybody's got their stimulus check and they like sitting at home. i have four guys that come to work every day and i could use four more. i got rid of my indeed ad. it's just a waste of money. i'm in construct construction and they consider me essential. so we go to philadelphia, we go to eerie. i work in d.c. almost every day, arlington in virginia. all the big businesses up here like staples and all the large warehouses, lowe's, home

ownership home ownership and they -- hope depot and they've had these jobs for months there's work out there. people just don't want to go to work they've created a lazy bunch of americans that are sitting at home collecting money for free. we can't just keep giving money away. where are we making the money from? host: as a wielder, how much can a wielder earn per hour? caller: i have guys that just friday were making $52 an hour. and my helpers, guys that are just high school -- just high school graduates. they need a driver's license and need to know how to read a tape measure. host: michael, are you still there? caller: yes, i'm here. host: for the welding part of it, what do you have do to become a certified wielder? caller: i sent my gentlemans to school, it costs me $4200. i paid for it. i pay him minimum wage.

the two days a week he was in school. the other two days a week, he worked for me. and it took him 90 hours to get that certified. host: michael arc wielder there. where is williamsport in the state there? caller: i'm on the west. western maryland. i'm in the very small part of the state where p.a.'s next to me and west virginia is on the other side of me. host: ok. michael in williamsport, talking about his wielding experience for he and his worker. we've set aside on the line for this. from elaine in massachusetts in newtonville. hello. caller: hello. host: hi. you're on. caller: oh o. i'm retired, age 80. and i'm losing a lot of money on my c.d.'s, bank interest. and i'm noticing a lot of prices are increasing, and particularly on groceries. so it's causing sort of a

strain. host: so you're looking -- when it comes to your certificate of deposit, you're saying you're not making anything the as far as the money you put into those? caller: very little significant difference. host: and what's your thought about the stock market about moving that, i expose maybe that's something you wouldn't consider at this point? caller: well, i moved some off of stock market which created a quite a bit. i moved some of my accounts off of the stock market which and now i'm not earning any. very little little.25. host: what prompted you to to make the move? caller: i figured i would keep losing from the stock market. host: elaine in massachusetts there, telling the us her story when it comes to savings and finances. mike in north carolina. hello. caller: hey. how are you doing? host: i'm fine, thanks. caller: yeah. i'm on essential security.

the thing i'm worried about is the democrats are talking about giving medicare and medicaid or medicare or whatever to all. is that not going to run social security for everybody? i worked all my life, paying in social security. i worked for the -- i kept up people that were deadbeats. and they were all on welfare. and they were living better than i was. i've been a construction worker all my life and i'm just kind of worried about that. host: in kansas city, missouri. this is may, who is next. hello. caller: hi. host: hi. caller: well, the covid has not impacted me financially. i am retired. so i'm living pretty much like i was living prior to the covid. but what i'd like to make a tatement about is the stimulus check. i don't think everybody deserves

to get a stimulus. those that are unemployed should be receiving stimulus help. small businesses should be. the big corporations do not deserve to get another stimulus check. -- think if they would host: go ahead. you're on, still. caller: ok. as long as they would make an effort to give a stimulus check to those that are unemployed and continue for a while to give them a chance to get back on their feet, that's what it should be. but everybody does not deserve or should get a stimulus check. thank you. host: that's may in missouri. and then one more call from north carolina in new hill. we will hear from sophia. good morning. caller: good morning. i could not get a stimulus check. i did not qualify. not had a verse

affects of my finances but as usual, i continue to help families who are less fortunate. if you could imagine how much that check is, i think it's $1,200 which is something that is not going to sustain anyone for any length of time, according to these comments that are being made, and it's just ridiculous to think that people on welfare getting assistance are better off not working. you know the truth is that is being told by some of these callers but i do feel for those who are in the food lions. i do hope that something can be done to help the most unfortunate. host: you talked about the amount. do you think a second round of stimulus checks should happen? caller: should it been rounded up? host: no, should another round be offered by the federal government? caller: definitely. you see all the people that don't even have food and certain industries like the hotels, the

restaurants, and different industries that work with people are not working. they need assistance. host: that's sophia, new hill, north carolina who finishes out this hour of calls. we thank you for participating. you heard the last guest mentioned. industries, one of those industries looked at today, particularly today on day after thanksgiving as the retail industry and we're going to get a snapshot of what that industry expects going forward with lauren thomas of cnbc. later in the program, we will talk about the future of u.s.-iran relations with behnam ben taleblu of the foundation for the defense of democracies. those conversations ♪ 2020 was a historic year for women with the election of the first woman as president, kamala

harris. it happened in the year we celebrate the 100 theater anniversary of the women's right to vote. elaine white on her book "the woman's hour." about the woman's right to vote. >> it passes the house by a margin very small. it passes the senate with only two vote margins. sitting afterers 1918 ite passes it in takes until june of 1919 before it passes both houses. then the senate knew there .itting out for ratification most state legislatures were not going to be in session. that was purposeful to make it more difficult.

they had to convince 30 governors to call legislatures back into session to consider the amendment. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. continues.on journal . host: we introduce lauren thomas of cnb -- of cnbc who reports on the retail industry. a key for your time. guest: thank you for having. host: give us a snapshot of what retailers are hoping for this year especially can there to years past. guest: i don't even know where to begin. this is a black friday that is covering the retail industry -- it looks like nothing we have ever seen before. retailers happen working through this pandemic all year. you roll into the holiday season which is the most important time

of the year for the retail industry. black friday got its name because it has been this day where retailers turn from the red into the black for the year. itself can be worth a week of sales. it has held importance in industry for some time. you have this pandemic and black friday has changed. the season is elongated this year and you see deals creeping earlier and earlier. i've already seen snapshots this morning from various stores across the country and you're not seeing those long lines and crowds, people fighting over tv's like we have seen in the past. companies have to enforce social distancing and policies in store right now. a lot of that has shifted online. it is still important, we are still expected to see record

spending, but more of that online and less on stores. it is spread out throughout this holiday season. theirwe ask people about economic impact, you're saying retailers are looking at record spending. how do you square those two things, people being affected financially but spending the season? about thehave talked high unemployment levels and many people are cutting back and budgeting throughout the pandemic. at the same time, you have the national retail federation come out and they put out their holiday forecast and said they anywhereles to be up from 3.6% to 5.2% year-over-year. that is quite an increase. strongpect this to be a season for the retail industry. i think a lot of that is due in

part to consumers are cutting back on travel and dining out, spending on these other experiences and things we would probably be doing if we weren't in the pandemic. i think he was he that funnel in a lot of gifting categories. usually this stuff at walmart, youet, macy's can sell rather than concert tickets and a meal out. that is what is driving this increases we are expected to see -- these increases we are expecting to see. i know it is a competing narrative and there's always this divide between the higher income consumers where we are seeing a strong rebound in luxury retail which is interesting then you do have in lower income consumers and those out of work that are going to have to cut back the season. walmart and other stores offer more discounts. host: lauren thomas talking

about the retail industry is time of year. if you want to ask her questions about this, you can do so. if you live in eastern and central time zones, 202-748-8000 . if you live in the mountain and pacific time zones, it is 202-748-8001. perhaps you work in the retail industry and you want to give the perspective there, it was a call at 202-748-8002. you can always text us at 202-748-8003. you can post on social media or on facebook and twitter. those retail workers, what is their perspective compared to retail owners? guest: it has been an interesting year for people. if you work and industry, you have to go through these obstacles as well. back in march and april, there was a lot of discussion around teleworkers and he saw many companies come out with hazard

pay, bonuses for employees that have to work to the pandemic -- we sign number of furloughs as companies like macy's had to cut back. they temporarily laid workers off. there was a great article in the new york times posted a few days ago that called out now as we are entering this second wave in the u.s. of covered cases, you're not seeing those same benefits or perks in hazard pay rolled out again from the likes of walmart and kroger that did that in march and april. workers at kroger who have protested more recently in spite of that. i think it is an interesting dynamic or it was more front and center earlier this year. now we are in the holiday season in the thick of it and this is a

are and hope that workers top of the line for companies. there spent millions of dollars uncovered cost throughout the year, in stores, sanitation, and things like that. i think it will be interesting to see as we head into 2021 west becomes more permanent. do we see -- what's becomes more permanent. benefits long-term? new and probably a lot of other americans get boxes on their doorsteps because of amazon, do they only market as far as online? are there online competitors and what is amazon's positioning today? 2020, as we round out amazon is expected to take the lion's share of retail spending

online, more than 30% of online share -- online sales. you cannot deny they are a huge layer. when you are walmart or target or best buy, that is who you are competing with. monday and cyber black friday enter that week that amazon and walmart took the largest share of online sales. them tend towo of been at and around the holidays. neck around the neck and c and -- neck around the holidays. flowe seeing bankruptcies through the apparel industry, we are seeing amazon invest in apparel and rollout more private labels. you can't ever count them out.

yes, you go downstairs in your lobby and baby eight out of 10 boxes are amazon -- and maybe eight out of 10 boxes are amazon. i think we continue to expect them to be the most dominant player, especially on days like cyber monday. they just had prime day in october and that is normally held in july. it was pushed back because of the pandemic. that really marks the unofficial start to the holiday shopping season. -- amazonny companies is doing this in october, they're going to have deals in early october so we have to launch our deals to keep up with them online. i think that was in part tribute it to that holiday spend being full -- being pulled forward and the holiday spending altogether. on the lines,call you can also post on social media to have a conversation with lauren thomas of cnbc.

we will start with henry in your desk in new york. -- in new york. know, whatanted to are these retailers doing to step up with lack of stimulus for people? how are they taking care of employees and how are they convincing people to work for them? guest: that is a great question. i think we have seen some companies do a better job at making -- at taking care of their employees than others. amazon announced yesterday that they are going to roll out another one-time bonus for workers, many of them in warehouses. of poor hear stories working conditions in those work -- in those warehouses. that is one thing that amazon is doing. it is tough. what you can do as a retailer plexiglasn is install

shields at registers and tried social distancing throughout the store, staggering shifts is one way retailers have tried to adjust to make employees feel more safe. heading out these one-time bonuses. we have seen a lot of furloughs and layoffs in the industry this year. i think it begs the question of what is going to happen to these workers? will they end up working in a work horse -- a warehouse environment again as retail moves online? to watch buthing that is just a few ways tellers ensure just trying to the employees but the customers that come in every day. host: we will have from -- hear from bill next. hello. caller: i am wondering how you see mall traffic rebounding rain the holiday season and how department scores -- department

stores recover. ,uest: malls in particular growing up as a kid it was a tradition for many families to head to the mall after thanksgiving black friday. malls andwe saw many stores closed on fixed giving. the traffic is expected to be down this year. back calledew weeks for a 25% drop year over year in malls around the holiday season. what thatting to see final date is going to look like. you can anticipate there will be a steep decline at malls this holiday season. department stores, too. there often the retailers that drive traffic to the mall, these companies like macy's, nordstrom, jesse any, sears -- jcpenney, and sears back in the day.

these companies were struggling for the pandemic, really struggling this year. many of them have been strained for liquidity, had to pull down revolve to have cash to work through this crisis. an evens malls in tougher spot. there trying to get creative. mall owners like simon property group have their own protocols and ways to try to entice people to come to stores. claus atsee santa malls this season, he might just be hide a barrier. host: you wrote about , what hase and fitch it been like for other retailers as they have to determine where they go from here? guest: i have had the opportunity to talk to ceos throughout the pandemic, especially ahead of the holidays.

the ceo of abercrombie and fitch, we spoke on the phone recently. how you are working through this especially after this resurgence of cases. they have had to shut down stores in countries like france. how are you working through that is what i was asking her. she talked about this playbook. they have been through this and it has allowed them -- given that a playbook to work through again -- given them a playbook to work through again. in the u.s., they have had to close stores in the u.s. during the holiday season. what does that playbook look like? i think one thing retailers with the struggle with in the early days is inventory and managing inventory. suddenly you have to shutdown your stores overnight and have all this stock sitting on shelves and backroom and

beckerman that becomes stale overtime that -- overtime. then you are not able to plan not knowing what to from consumers will look like. they had to get hard on inventory in the summer months to think through what do we need or the holiday season. we have seen -- a number of retailers have mentioned that they are in a lien inventory position. that cut down to make sure they don't have too much that they would have to sell through. ofis going to be a season shaving -- awaiting demand and see what consumers want, what is a hot item and order as many of .hat item as they can hopefully not disappointing customers who come to your website and see something is unavailable. that is happening this morning with the playstation 5, that is one item on everybody's list

this holiday season in the gaming world. at abercrombie, that is one thing she mentioned about inventory. online as well, managing your website as you see his record cases online. adobe is crediting that e-commerce sales this year is going to be up year-over-year. if you have not seen this kind of traffic before, how do you work through that? there are a lot of companies that invest heavily in their website. just to kind of motivate them to work through this as well. thingk it's another company's are working through. another ceo mentioned this idea of a playbook that they developed a playbook to work through hopefully work through this better the second time. that seems like a theme right now. host: i'm sure you have done

reporting on this idea of big retail and small retail. tell that story this year and how it is changed from years previous. guest: it is showing up in the data. there was a survey out from mastercard that says about -- consumers are focusing and making it more of a priority to shop local. even women owned businesses or black on businesses this holiday. many of our favorite mom and pop shops struggle more than these chains during the pandemic. top of minds more for consumers right now to shoprt local places, local. we want to keep these guys

afloat because they're not received a lot of funding for their businesses. ae retail industry was put in harder position than the restaurants. if you could argue they got more help from the government. it shows up in these surveys that consumers are thinking more about shopping small this year versus the mass chains. that is not to say that walmart and target -- they are still going to do really well. i think there is renewed focus on supporting small business -- theseat this family-owned businesses have been through. host: for the central and eastern time zones it is 202-748-8000, for the mountain and pacific time zones it is 202-748-8001. perhaps you work in the retail industry, that is 202-748-8002. you mentioned walmart and other businesses that may have gotten assistance from the federal government. there was the ceo of walmart

making the plea to congress for more relief pop businesses and small. i want to play some of what he had to say and talk about it. [video clip] moneyple aren't spending is much to travel and take vacations. some of that is impacting retail's the category we sell -- retail in the category we sell. i think the lack of stimulus is showing up in those that are unemployed, small businesses, those that need help. in some ways we are having a shared experience because we are in a pandemic together. in other ways we are having a different experience. if you have been let go and you have not had income, you need some help. what we have been saying through the voice at walmart and the roundtable at the administration is that we need -- we have people that need help. there are some industries like airline and lodging that need targeted specific assistance and it is important that happens.

this country is so driven by small business. small businesses and families that are disadvantaged need help in ways that some of the rest of us don't and we would like to see that happen as soon as possible. host: the ceo of one of the world's biggest ceo -- world's biggest companies making this pitch, tell us more about that. guest: walmart is leaving other ceos not just in retail through this pandemic. he is important to listen to because of that. companies like walmart back in march when the first round of stimulus checks went out to millions of americans, these sought.s when we saw our earnings come out, we saw a record sale increases for people like walmart, best buy, home depot, lowe's. they performed really well and

spark -- in part due to the stimulus checks. it was killing their business. helpingrk -- it was their business. but when that dries up, what is next? where does it go from here. -- from here? that is why you see companies like walmart -- i know macy's has spoken to it as well, they are banking on some sort of stimulus or assistance coming through. it looks like that is going to be early next year. it didn't come in time for the holiday season. many in the industry were hoping for that. federationl retail was lobbying on that. these businesses saw benefit. not everyone, though. there has been this divide. i am thinking more about the essential versus nonessential

retail nomenclature that has been used throughout the pandemic. yet companies like target and walmart that sell a little bit of everything. they were deemed essential early on and allowed to keep their stores open. yet the non-essential stores like macy's or a gap that just sell apparel and accessories. those were forced to close and they took a hit because of that. the goods operate online, but there was only so much they could make up online. they are starting to recover now that their stores are able to reopen again, but there was a clear divide their. stimulus dollars are being spent at walmart and target where you can buy a little bit of everything. >> -- host: we will hear from shelby in tennessee. go ahead. guest: i appreciate you and c-span cash caller: i appreciate you and

c-span -- caller: i appreciate you and c-span. and food andimited grocery stores have,. it is hard to meet ends meet -- make and sweet. -- make ends meet. we are struggling on social security because you never know what is going to happen. if you lose a spouse, you don't even get their part. we struggle, too. to betterng forward years now that joe biden has one -- has won. because i have been pressed four

years under the current president. because he won i can feel a little better at night. i appreciate you and all the americans and we are struck together. thank you. host: thank you, shelley. lauren thomas, go ahead. i think many americans that find themselves shy think there are many americans that find themselves -- i think there are many americans that find themselves in a similar situation as you. there have been many promotions forughout this year companies that have access inventory. you have seen some price cuts which is tough for consumers, but those prices can only -- which is good for consumers but those prices can only drop so much. they're trying to make a profit

at the end of the day. the grocery industry has already been a low-margin business to begin with but it is tough for them to compete on prices. i think everyone is hopeful that 2021 will be a better year. viewer who asked about movie theaters and the like and restaurants and how they go through this correctly and how they plan to come out of it. can you expand on that? guest: i think it is still relevant. when i think of movie theaters and restaurants, a lot of this is at malls as well. it is part of the mall formula of the classic mall. have a movie theater and a cheesecake factory and a macy's. these other industries have struggled as well. we have seen a number of bankruptcies in the restaurant space and even some movie theater chains go under.

when you are allowed to operate your business but you still have to have his capacity restraints in place, at the end of the day it is hard to make money when you think of all the cost that are incorporated and keep the lights on everyday. will --rd out there and when will consumers feel safe sitting in a movie theater again? i don't know. moviesome are right now, theaters in most states are allowed to be open with restrictions. ande is heightened anxiety it is changing consumers' psyche. they're having to adapt in new york city. outdoor dining is the new norm and we are going to see what that is like this winter. everyone is trying to get creative and do with the cap. creativeying to get

and deal with it. did reflect onme how to because of the year, how do we deal with the holidays. if it wasn't enough, we will see a number file for bankruptcy and that will be heightened in 2021. we are waiting to see exactly how that shakes out but that is something to watch for. host: our guest is lauren thomas who reports on the retail industry here to take your questions on the state of the industry during the pandemic. for eastern and central time zones, 202-748-8000. 202-748-8001 for mountain and pacific time zones. if you work in the retail industry, 202-748-8002. from minnesota, this is daniel. heartlandam in the

and it is almost like back in the days of the gold rush everything went west with .alifornia me as an entrepreneur and artist, i am struggling with all of that. , it is starts back up like the fire dwindles. to make a perfect thing for the perfect world. to live our lives but we have to live what life is left. i think the spectacular thing is to do it right all the way around together because it is the only way it is going to work as a society or culture. that is what i have. host: what would you like our guest to address?

community, i can't do anything for my community. have a father because of war all my life but that is another topic. move on and move the right direction. guest: one thing i would say is i think it is important for retailers to not just think about one market. in new york city, when you think of your consumers, what are their confidence levels at right now? you have to be like daniel and cast a wide net. the retail industry is trying to .e cognizant of that everyone is in a different spot.

each store can show you that different profile depending on where you are in the country. host: you talked about new york city, lee from our twitter feed says that new york city has been mauled by giant chains. small businesses are going out of business or out of business. guest: sure. york and it isew sad to see. the big chains and the small change struggle this year. a perfect example is this new shopping mall that opened about a year ago on the west side of manhattan. spent -- spanned multiple levels and then the pandemic hit and they filed for bankruptcy.

it had hardly been open for a year. now that is vacant space that is looking for something to move in. chains, we have been overbuilt and over retailed, especially in new york city. you see a lot of that come up over the years. but i think this year has flush that out on the national level and small businesses as well. you walk down the street and you unfortunately see a lot of small shops are closed up and vacant. it will probably take a few years for that to be built again. i think that will take an adjustment. i talked to folks in the real estate industry and they speak to how much rent has escalated over the years. i think this will finally be an opportunity where we will see downward pressure on rent. host: let's hear from a retail

worker in cincinnati. this is mike, hello. us.i think he has left this is tony from florida he says "what effect do you think a -- what willdown be the impact on brick and mortar establishments." -- establishments?" guest: i don't think it will be don'tnd these retailers scaledhey will see a shutdown like they did earlier this year. they're not expecting to see widespread closures and have to work through that again. happen, it were to could be the death note for a lot of these companies. we said number of companies teetering on the edge.

as i was saying earlier with bankruptcies in two to 21, that -- 2021, thatn could be a sign. the holiday season is a make or break time for companies on the brink of survival. it would not be good. workers, -- there was a story in the wall street journal that profiled a retail worker of the day and he walks through his story of how he was furloughed and out of work for a while. there was uncertainty hanging over his head and all the sudden he was called to come back in. the retailers figured they could open stores again. that uncertainty is not fun for anyone. we hope we would not see that again because it would be hard for the retail industry to go through that again. host: this is joel in illinois. good morning.

whatr: i am wondering lauren thomas thinks about the industry -- thinks about the internet. how was the internet changed the retail industry? and ilooking for shoes went onto to google and found i could find them cheaper because i guess there is no middleman on the internet. i am just wondering what your thoughts are on that? guest: that is such a good question. thousands of people have had that same experience. you see something that is in stores, you google it, you see the exact same item at a cheaper price. it is a no-brainer if you are a consumer, why not just buy online? in large part i think it has been amazon and the pressure they're putting on other

retailers to keep lower prices. you mentioned no middleman, i think that is true. i think a company like amazon has that advantage where they're able to keep prices competitively low. when you have scale, it is easier to do that. that pushes other companies to compete. you havething you what to do is have a customer search for any item and see that yours is the more expensive option so they can pass over it. thisnk i mentioned earlier, but we are expecting to see record gains online this holiday season. what is going to be interesting is to see how companies work through the logistics and supply chain. it is suddenly a more important part than it has ever been. there are so many deliveries with the system, so many packages that must be set out. we are shipping cut offs and

deadlines come sooner so retailers can ensure they are able to get your sweater to your doorstep in time for christmas. my words of advice if you are a consumer and you haven't finished holiday shopping yet and you are thinking when it online, i would place those orders now -- and you are thinking of ordering online, i would place those orders now. retailers are seeing a record search in orders. they have to go to their where andes -- there warehouses shipped those up -- and shipped those out now. everyone is trying to work through this. the internet, i think that is going to be a theme, digital dominance. a lot of those sales traditionally done and stores are going to be moving on my. host: here is brenda from new

jersey. good morning. on the tvjust turned and watch the program, very interesting. thank you to c-span. have a question you may help me answer. with the new year coming, i'm a democrat and i would hope they would come to some solution to give a stimulus check. i get a small social security check. food prices have gone up tremendously. i don't buy extravagantly but i do buy food. too shop in local stores send that money they gave me on the stimulus. do you have any comment that maybe we would be getting a stimulus check for people who are on social security? i will preface this by saying that i am no political

expert but i do walk -- to watch these talks play out. retailers and consumers are both opal this is going to happen -- are both hopeful this is going to happen. i don't think we are going to see anything this year. i think that is going to be a 2021 issue. talks remain ongoing. we are certainly working towards some sort of deal or agreement. i don't think i could give you exact timing on that front. everyone is still hopeful this is going to get done next year. host: did you get a sense from those in the retail community about the incoming joe biden administration and are there any thoughts about having a change that way? guest: to be totally honest, i think we often see that retailers don't get too political. you saw if you congratulate the , but theyiden team

don't get too political and the extent of how the talk about how this is going to help or hurt business. i think that might be my answer. i haven't seen too much chatter around joe biden and how that could potentially help them more than trump. they are very nonpartisan for the most part. host: he wrote a piece about the six ways the pandemic changed retail. you touched on some of these with the advent of touch free shopping, e-commerce, and the rise of the everything store. but you also have a category, big spenders versus penny pictures. rs.penny pinche explain that. guest: essentially there is this divide work your seen the middle class shrink and you have this

gap between consumers that are very well off and they have a high savings rate, they are storing money away, they have money to spend in this growing group of lower income consumers as well. i think the pandemic accelerated that in the extent that he had millions of americans out of work and driving that down. at the same time, you have a have af consumers that job and because they are not dining out and traveling, they actually have more money they're putting back into their pockets. i think that is one of the holds that will probably truth to the pandemic and beyond , the continuing divide between these groups of consumers and the shrieking middle-class. host: you also talked about the blow to malls and department stores. but you added the casual station

ionclosing -- the casualizat of clothing. guest: oh yeah, if you are like me you are wearing your pajama bottoms right now. we are all at home and i think everyone is pursuing comfort more than anything else. we see that with apartment stores with sales down. banana republic is a great example. cap reported earnings and banana republic is known for more dressy apparel and it is really struggling. when i speak to the head of the company and she walked me through how they are trying to theagine that brand to fit needs of consumers now looking for loungewear and comfortable angst where everyday. npd group had a study on comfortable clothing, that this category is going to account for

31% of all apparel sales this holiday season. we were already heading in that direction pre-pandemic, leggings after --tes are -- athleisure. we are not owing out so we are wearing sweatpants everyday. i think it will be hard to revert back to some of these trends once everything passes. i mentioned banana republic tried to offer more comfortable clothing. the macy's ceo did tell me he is hopeful that everyone will be so sick of wearing pajamas that it is going to be a spike in dressy apparel. we will have to wait and see. host: let's get one more call from bob in minnesota.

caller: thank you for taking my call. cities wherewin the tragic killing of george floyd took place and the rights started. if you go up and down lake street, there is a lot of mom-and-pop stores that look like a burned out berlin in world war ii. i think there are a lot of people living on the edge that don't have food, don't have a job. 40% of businesses are going out. i think the politicians are dancing around with this package. i will give you an example. the right is saying too much in the left is saying not enough. -- wet senator schumer passed the package in july or whatever. that was unrelated.

i happen to be retired and live on social security. the one lady who called in, like her. i am going to predict this, write this down. afters going to happen is joe biden is swine in -- sworn in, miraculously there will be a breakthrough because the left does not want anything on trump's watch. host: since you already address the politics of it, to finish off with you, give us what you are looking for today and in the days to follow to give a suggestion retail is. guest: as soon i get off this call i will be talking to folks at stores and malls and hitting some myself. what we want to get a sense of

today is traffic because black friday is traditionally a day you do go to stores. watching to see that -- black friday is a day you do go to stores. cyber monday would be -- we will be looking at commerce on that front. that is what we will be monitoring. the key thing this season and 81 of the biggest takeaways in the retail industry is the divide between the winners and losers like i was managing -- like i was mentioning at start of the show. buy willtarget, best grab a large share of categories whatnotctronics and where you have these small companies that are buying a harder share of the season. i think that will hold true. we will have winners and losers

like we do every year definitely this year. host: our guest reports for cnbc, you can see her work at cnbc.com. thank you and have happy holidays. guest: thank you for having me. host: we will talk about the upcoming biden administration and what it might mean with u.s.-iran relations with benham ben taleblu. that is coming up on washington journal. ♪ >> american history tv on the peopleploring and events that tell the american story every weekend. this weekend, saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern, an interview on leadership with james baker who served as secretary of state under george h.w. bush and as

ronald reagan's chief of staff and treasury secretary. eastern8:00 p.m., connecticut state university the --or tom is on promise on the relationship between james buchanan, the 15th president in 1856 and william rufus king who served under franklin pierce. onday at 6:00 p.m. eastern american artifacts, we explore jfk assassination records from the national archives including artifacts such as the harvey wall swelled -- the harvey -- lee harvey oswald's rifle and the -- you can buy abraham supporter. reagantour of the ronald presidential library in

california. exploring the american story, watched american history tv is weekend on c-span3 -- american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> washington journal continues. host: we will have a conversation about iran and the ,.s. with benham ben taleblu the foundation for the defense of democracies senior fellow. with yournot familiar organization, how would you describe it? guest: it is a nonpartisan ink tank in d.c. that focuses on national security and foreign policy issues. it started with a more regional focus in the middle east and terrorism. it has layered on other threats as they arose and became more important to the u.s. by power competition, defense policy, things of that nature. host: i suppose the rest of the election,ed on to the

how do you think iran looked on? guest: it is an important -- that wasause when there was a break in the u.s.-iran region -- relations. the oustingported of the last king of iran. --r since then, i run's with the white house has grown. there have been spikes in relations where romney -- irani officials have wanted to spite washington for a particular policy. if your member the hostage crisis that ended a few moments after ronald reagan was inaugurated, the hostage takers themselves admit to wanting to

spite president carter. there is a slew of regime officials that are happy to have outlasted donald trump's economic pressure policy against the islamic republic. that is called the maximum pressure campaign by the trump administration throughout the u.s. government, it probably -- it's primary uses sanctions to punish the iranian republic rather than negotiate. tehran saw washington leave the deal as a result of the sanctions policy and tehran try to meet pressure with pressure. you can see irani officials be happy discussions of eight returned to radio under a biden administration -- discussions of a potential return to a deal under a biden administration. enmity iss, iran's bipartisan. they are more happy to see the

trump administration gone. they're happy to see their narrative of vengeance dedicated. host: what is the most difficult hurdle for the incoming administration. guest: there are several. there are some in washington, there are quite a few brought -- abroad. as some of itsll allies across europe. be aan, while there will likely new u.s. administration in january, in iran there will be elections in june and president will be inaugurated in august. that gives the u.s. only six months to work with the administration on the nuclear which came from the interim nuclear deal in 2013.

team,den administration some of them can trace origins back to the obama administration and some were involved with the details of the deal and the diplomacy towards the deal. there likely to see actual iran and it may unfortunately or oddly motivate washington to try to deliver sanctions early to try to get iran to come to the table early or try to sweeten the deal if they can't clawback the complete steel but amend the changes to hopefully pause the escalation going on between both sides. we have one major roadblock there. we can guess the likely next iran president is going to be a hard-liner. --is in the third degree

third decade of his career. their economy is hurting, they're likely to extract the high price and that could get the u.s. into a -- if they want to negotiate or not. host: this is joe biden who talked about the nuclear deal. returns to iran compliance with the deal, the u.s. will rejoin the agreement as a starting point for follow-up negotiations. with our allies, we will working to strengthen the deal's provisions while addressing other issues of concern. out theks to call regime on its pilot shins of human rights. we will work with our partners to reduce tensions and work with regional conflicts including the war in yemen. -- yemen." what do you think about that approach? guest: i had a rebuttal to that piece after it was published

trying to get folks to think about a theory of your for the biden approach. at the heart of that op-ed is the notion of compliance for complaints, the u.s. and iran will offer compliance to return to that baseline. the first observation is that the middle east of 2020 is not the middle east of 2015. with the factional situation in iran and the change in tehran and the coarsening of their position despite the weakening of the economy, once they see western interest that means they can capitalize on that and try like matureing sanctions release. tehran has an incentive to keep laying chicken because it makes the other side less resolute. when we talk about compliance and compliance, we have to talk about phasing and that is something the op-ed did not

mention. it spoke about returning to a nuclear baseline and trying to strengthen and lengthen -- i think those other work that tony about with talked the deal. to grow on it and add to it. that paradigm i think is going to be difficult. the bulk of the u.s. sanctions makes a way for a nuclear concession by iran. if you trade away your primary coercion andhment, you try to go again and say we want you to make good on his nonnuclear threats -- reduce missile tests, sees human rights violations, stop interfering with your nations, stop making weapons, these kinds of things.

because the iran republic is ideologically motivated to be doing those things it has been doing those things as long as it has been around, the u.s. has no leverage to address those things. the only tools that exist if you take away this policy towards iran which is sanctions and nonmilitary pressure, the only tools that exist if you look at the spectrum are coarsening the position, something donald trump didn't even want to do that much which is military action. or the other end of the spectrum is more concessions. was vice president during the obama administration and they did offer concessions. there was piles of cash delivered to tehran. we hope you don't say reversion to those premature concessions. if you focus first is nuclear, you're going to be left with this question of what other

leveraged you have to address those threats? that is where i think that op-ed falls short. >> -- host: you can ask our guest about u.s.-iran relations. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8002 for independents. you can text us on 202-748-8003n facebook as well. how would you describe the state of iran's nuclear arsenal, as it stands today? guest: iran does not have a nuclear arsenal when we talk about weapons, at least not that we know of. iran has a robust nuclear program that was not dismantled or destroyed by the jcpoa. some of it was nearly paused, put into storage. one year after the u.s. left the --onar deal -- may 8,

may 8, 2019, iran began its own policy of overtly violating that deal. when you look at iran's nuclear program today, they have 12 times the permitted stockpile of low, enriched uranium on their soil. reports of what they could do with it, they could get one to two bombs worth care that is quite a change from the jcpoa baseline. the jcpoa baseline was designed to keep iran about a year away from a nuclear weapon and to --p no more than also this past year in 2020, while the u.s. continued its sanctions pressure and escalations through sabotage, likely through u.s. partner innovations -- many are talking confirmation,- no

of course, but it kind of complementary sabotage to supplement this u.s. sanctions pressure. you have seen the centrifuge facility, which spain uranium quite fast to purify it. reaction facility was destroyed through such sabotage attacks. i think tehran's interest in keeping this program more hidden from the eyes of the international community is true. iranians have a slew of facilities are now overt, but many were covert. iran has incrementally been leaving the jcpoa. it has done things to remind us that, at one point in time, many of these facilities were actually secret. iea --wonders, while the

iaea is inspecting, which ones are covert. and the question a possible military dimensions to iran's nuclear dimensions, house or -- how thoroughly some of these research facilities were charted, if at all, and what elements linger today? there are a lot of answers but also a lot of questions. looking at the incoming biden administration, they may look at the worries they have, which is the growth in iran's nuclear output since 2015, in particular since 2019, when it left the deal. i fear this hyper focused on one element, trying to put iran's nuclear development back at the level established in 2015, would come out the cost of knowing other issues. host: we have calls online for

you. boston, massachusetts up first, doug. caller: anybody who knows anything about the middle east knows that the foundation for the defense of democracies is an unregistered lobby group for israeli interests. now here's my question for mr. taleblu. currently, the law of the land the foreign assistance act, which states any country that possesses or produces nuclear weapons without having signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty shall not receive united states foreign aid. currently possesses and produces nuclear weapons. the nuclearo sign non-proliferation treaty, unlike iran, and is also the largest recipients of united states

foreign aid, $3.8 billion per annum. wrong with this scenario -- we know what it is -- host: we will let our guest address it. guest: i am no expert in israel's nuclear program, but there is great literature on its. to assess theed scale and scope of iran's nuclear program. i will ignore the slander against our organization, likening it to be some sort of foreign lobby group. in essence, there has always been this talk of what countries the middle east do have nuclear capability and the threat of those countries with civilian nuclear programs were cunning -- becoming military nuclear programs. you had multiple debates about the future of a nuclear weapons free zone in the middle east. as long as you have rising threats to that order,

particularly questions over the scale and scope of iran's program, we may not be able to adjust the full scale of other countries latent nuclear capabilities. i think some of that needs to be addressed to the history of u.s.-israel -- second, when you are looking up proliferation in the region, perhaps it is best to deal with some of the emerging threats. host: our next call from washington, d.c. grant, go ahead. caller: my question for behnam ben taleblu -- i guess i would like to know if he is israeli, following up on the previous caller. the law is the law. the amendments referred to by the previous caller require every president to notify congress when they are going to give aid to a nuclear proliferator. sponsor ofding state

nuclear proliferation in the middle east is israel. its removed material from the united states illegally, it has conducted nuclear tests, it has misused peace infrastructure -- host: sense of the last caller address this and our conversation is about iran, do you have a specific question about that? caller: how can the u.s. possibly pretend to be against nuclear proliferation when we have this giant exception for --ael and all of these host: we will leave it there. guest: the question is is nuclear proliferation in the region -- proliferation is the key, which implies the spread of the material. that is something we have to be concerned about, given their reach into europe, given that you had germane intelligence

agencies talking about iran going shopping for materials for its weapons programs -- shopping and places in east asia as well, to improve its missile capabilities. there is great concern to address this rising iranian challenge. one helpful framing tool -- again, i am not a scholar of u.s.-israel relations. but one framing tool is status quo and anti-status quo actors. if you use this lens to look at u.s. interests in the region, you will see continuity in the way the u.s. has acted in the cold war and into today. some of those trends, when you look at the status quo -anti-status quo debate, some of the trends will tell you that despite republican and democratic administrations, the

support for democracy has been there, but most importantly, you will see the u.s. committed to stemming the spread of these technologies, in particular trying to stop these technologies from reaching the hands of revisionist groups. iran made a conscious choice to be a revisionist reactor. there are countless u.s. attempts to reach out to the republic. at the offer look of big to big, there is an offer, trade offer, to give iran a full political normalization. so when you are talking about military support or nonproliferation, the best tool to see this through, when talking about u.s. interests in the region, is what kind of actor are we talking about? does the caller really have concerns at night about potential nuclear capability in japan, for instance?

does a caller have concerns at night when he goes to bed at about the nuclear capabilities of countries like zillah and argentina in the past? does the caller know that taiwan used to have an interest in nuclear capability? does the caller know that the netherlands had a robust infrastructure at one point, commercial infrastructure? the point is the actor matters here, and the islamic republic of iran is a qualitatively different actor in some of those estates we are talking about today. what you talk about persistent u.s. policy, you want to stem the proration -- proliferation material toelivery the hands of everyone, but if you're going to be rank ordering your threats, i am sure you would have to focus on the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism, which the u.s. has done consistently, given the tone and tenor of its

relationship with iran. host: we have a viewer who says it is current u.s. policy that led directly to the expansion of iran's capabilities, calling the president's capabilities inept and adding that iran is stronger than four years ago. heart of-8001 at the that point is the fact, objectively, particularly from 2018 -- we can just go two years ago. particularly from 2018, iran's nuclear program has expanded considerably. even from 2017, iran has done other more risk tolerant things, missiles peace rather than ware in foreign military operations -- they use proxies so that the patron itself does not have to absorb any blowback.

when iran feels more comfortable -- confident using these missiles, touting its violations overtly rather than having to do things covertly, it is because of the new dynamic. in some ways, in the short time, if we look at this as an image rather than a video, yes, iran is trying to respond to an offset u.s. pressure, but we have to ask ourselves why is iran doing this and have we ever tolerated this before and to what end? yes, iran is more dangerous when it comes to its nuclear program and missile program. one reason is the max pressure campaign is actually strangling the regime's revenues, impeding its access to foreign exchange, and the regime is continuing to reference its revolutionary foreign policy over public goods or the national interest of its own country. in this kind of instance, what happens is the u.s. doubled down

and iran doubled down, and you have this kind of escalatory spiral, but ultimately, iran so -- ofcannot win, the closer and closer you get to choking them out, the more violent their thrashing has to bbecom -- become. so was the trump administration prepared for this kind of flashing? did the administration appropriately red team iran's counters, and did the u.s. have in place a whole series of diplomatic intelligence, military and economic tools to offset iran's offsets? that a a legitimate clinical and legitimatehat is a political and policy criticism to have.

but you saw iran accumulate anywhere from seven to nine one wasrth, and no pumping off, and one has to wonder why. when iran has one to two bombs worth of enriched uranium today, which should be stemmed and addressed, but when there is such concern over this volume today, where was the concern beforehand for the seven to nine bombs worth of enriched uranium, and if the sanctions the u.s., at that point with its partners, had to address the seven to nine bombs worth was traded away to deal with the jcpoa, one should ask isn't it worth making more risks to get a better deal than is --poa while iran

at the heart of this policy is the belief that it is worth taking some risks for a greater reward. host: from our republican line, pat, you're up next. caller: do you have any insights or projections on loosening -- what loosening tensions with iran would do, what impact it would have those countries that recently signed a deals with israel? and would a country like saudi arabia feel the need to develop its own stockpile? guest: those are two excellent questions. they get to the heart of the u.s. footprint in the region, who u.s. partners in the region actually are, and the way the u.s. could actually attempt to loose intentions -- loosened tensions -- recent -- loosen tensions in the short term. but when you look out the story of the evolving iranian threat,

the picture becomes dangerous and a less worthwhile trade. so the risk reward there is not necessarily worth it. when you talk about some of the gulf cooperation council countries that reached the abraham a court biggest factor driving these arab states in the persian gulf towards normalization with israel is the fact that they have this outsized threat across the goal from iran. in many ways, there has been this covert arab-israeli state level cooperation for more than a decade now, given the rising iranian threat, but the threat -- risen so much so --sident obama talked about both trump and biden talked about ending in this wars.

in particular, it sounds like u.s. will be leaving at some point, that the iranians are rising, and that if you are a regional actor that is a u.s. partner, you look at and ask yourself who is really the only country that has been successful at rolling back parts of the iranian threat, particularly as it gets to their own borders, and done so without triggering a massive conflict and without triggering what many analysts believe would happen world war iii? some of these arab states have looked and said it is obviously israel, given the way they were able to impede the iranian networks in syria, and i think that is a major motivation for the abraham accords. the more countries in the region realize that and begin to normalize relations, the less and use and abuse the palestinian card as a vehicle for its foreign policy. if the u.s. simply gives premature concessions that are not based in changes in iran's

regional behavior, not based on policy, it will actually empower the ability of iran to do things like claw at the region and intimidate some of these countries. in particular, this last year, for instance, in response to when these estates in the region see the u.s. as irresolute, they begin to hedge. is for some of these countries to hedge, so they can use the jurisdiction for sanctions boston. there are countless sanction busting organizations active today. been tons of them in the uae. last summer, when the iranians shot down the u.s. drone, those countries just across the gulf saw that, and some, like the uae, began to hedge. if you have a firm posture, you

can restrain the hedge. and you can find a more common in therk to impede iranian threats. you have to prove there is no way out -- the iranians should not be able to capitalized on our domestic this stage is, or the iranian should not be able to save the -- simply waits out presidents they do not like or play regional actors against one another. we are talking about baseline peace and stability for the region. because iran is a fundamentally anti-status quo actor, trying to overturn the regional balance, these provisions -- jersey, we will hear from rhonda. caller: good morning, america. i have a question, but first i have a comment about iran. i truly have all the confidence

new bidenld in the administration coming in and making a new nuclear upgrade deal with iran. i truly have confidence in him in doing that. my question to you, and i do not know if americans are aware of this -- i saw, on the rachel maddow show a couple days ago oure donald trump ordered pentagon, or whoever is in charge of there, to destroy our spy planes that fly over the country in the middle east to pick up intelligence, didn't r eplace them. these billion-dollar intelligence spy planes, he destroyed them, where now , china can fly over

our country and pick up intelligence. he said these planes only flag -- they have an agreement where they fly only six times a year, they have some type of agreement -- he actually -- we only have a few of these planes -- he ordered them to be liquidated host: what would you like our guest the comments on? caller: i want to know if he has any information? making the ways for russia to take over. he is pulling our troops out of --rywhere -- he is host: we will let our guest respond. guest: i am not familiar with the rachel maddow story the caller mentioned, but if i am not mistaken, the larger trend in that story was to talk about the destruction of some spy planes. i think the caller may be

confusing that with an older treaty the u.s. recently left, the open skies treaty. involved the u.s. and russia inspecting each other's strategic capabilities using spy planes. the trump administration left that because, in particular, it was not really functioning as a tool of verification. it was really a stand in. nonproliferation scholars have been all over on this. some have been for leaving, some against leaving. this is not the first nuclear deal they left here they also left the intermediate nuclear forces treaty, but that was because of persistent russian violations. even nato sided with washington when it came to those persistent russian violations. even previously the obama administration had noted those violations as well. this gets to a larger point

about what do you do, whether you are republican or democratic administration, when you have deals with u.s. adversaries, a country like iran, like russia, whomever, where that country is going to take incremental risks to try to hold you in the deal, hold you in a deal that they simply will not adhere too much anymore, that they will begin to violate over time. so the question has been a conundrum for u.s. policy across the board, across the whole series of geographies, of functional arms control and nonproliferation agreements -- how do you incentivize those countries to change their behavior? leave the deal outright, expose the violation, how did you learn of the violation? this will be a challenge for all administrations. it will continue to be this challenge because our adversaries use our rules-based order against us. they do not necessary like to

adhere to the same agreements they think with us over -- they ink with us over time. they hedge, which puts u.s. policy at a fork in the road, do you simply stay in the deal when there are changes being made in the strategic environment that render contentions -- concessions moot? it raises this larger question that is more important than the russian or chinese or iranian threat individually. it gets to how do you change your adversaries' behavior th rough coercion and diplomacy? the u.s. has some tools, including leaving treaties, multilateral tools, using military options -- there is a whole series of tools here. the u.s. has to prioritize what approach to take first. whether democrat or republican, try toould first be to

get your partners on board. but if you're partners do not agree with you, and you believe putting pressure on adversaries to expose their violations and to get them to change u.s. interests, you should be willing to go at it alone, and that has been the way the trump administration dealt with iran. host: the caller mentioned the incoming biden administration. issuesinken talked about including potentially rejoining the iran nuclear deal. we will take you back to the summer and apply it to today. [video clip] >> the most fundamental problem for us is dealing with iran's nuclear program. so if iran comes back into compliance with its obligations, joe biden said we would, too. having brought the allies back on our side, now they keep asserting an equivalence between iran and the united states, asking us both to calm down.

with our partners and allies back on our side, with the agreement once again enforced, we can use that as a platform to try to build a stronger and longer agreement. and with the allies with us again, we are in a much better position to confront iran's actions and provocations that we do not like. right now, most of our partners are spending all their time trying to figure out how to keep the nuclear agreement alive, not working with us to deal with iran's excesses. host: let's talk about tony blinken, what he says, and how it would apply if he becomes secretary of state. guest: very important comments there. i would disagree with some of them, but it is important, because it shows you how the approach may evolve towards iran under a potential biden administration. for instance, he mentioned,

first, getting back into compliance, then trying to strengthen and lengthen or deal with these other threats. it is kind of like building a house. if you have a poor foundation, it will be tough to build on top of that foundation. if the goal is simply restoring iran's compliance to a fatally flawed agreement, you will not be able to level the house on that foundation. if you trade away the bulk of your leverage just to get a nuclear agreement, what leverage do you have to be able to get iran to comply on other threats? some of these threats have been around much longer than a nuclear program. they have been lingering things that are persistent in the way the islamic republic conducts itself at home and abroad. any incoming administration

would have a tough time, regardless of their view of the jcpoa, because iran is inclined to dig in their heels, and the americanism in the regime has always been high, but skepticism is now high as well. you will likely have a presidential change of power where there will be something that is even more of a hardliner, it and you could see a deja vu. 2005,ould be like 2004, two thousand six. in 2004, you had mass disqualification of reformists for iran who ran for parliament. of2005, you had the election the holocaust denier in chief in iran. controlugh they do not national security, they began to support the unwinding of some of iran's previous agreements under the tehran occlusion and the

paris accords, which dealt with nuclearcap on iran's capabilities. to iran's nuclear file moved their security, which moved the nuclear crisis. mass20, there was disqualification of people running for parliament inside iran. it became an ultra hardline parliament. a june, 2021, there will be presidential "election, where you will likely have a hardliner dominate. then this combination of political forces could help drive the discussion towards, , morestance confrontation, despite washington not wanting confrontation. so something that the biting team will have to to grapple with is what if iran says no?

even if their economy is hurting, they were able to outlast some of this pressure policy under trump. there is a persian saying meaning that the spatula is hitting the end of the pot. iran's economy is frying up. -- drying up. the biting team begins to loosen up, iran will double down. you could fundamentally return to the very mercantile dynamics that existed in 2013, which is when the iranians realized -- realized americans need the deal for political reasons more than they need the deal at home for economic reasons. it puts the pieces in place to best america at the negotiating table and resurrect a fundamentally bad deal. one morehave time for

call. illinois come independent line. jump right in with your question or comment. caller: is a former soldier, first of all, i do not believe in any kind of military option. secondly, we are not in the position to be telling anybody anything. you leave them alone, they will leave us alone. the iranians are very proud people, like anybody else care they deserve to defend themselves. i do not like the idea that israel can murder people at the gaza border, then reclaim the other guy is the bad guy. we have done this throughout time. so please address that. don't make it one-sided. gave to pointter and at least equal time for the other side. thank you. bitt: it is just a little funny that the caller would want to have the foreign minister of the world's foremost state

sponsor of terrorism on "washington journal." my views are the independent views of a scholar focusing on iran here in washington, d.c. but there is something at the heart of what the caller was saying, which is the laissez-faire approach. if you look at the double medic diplomatict the record, it is iran who has shunned u.s. outreach. you talk about the iranians being a part people. i am iranian-american. i am proud of my heritage. but there is nothing to be part of, over the past 40 years. looking at the value of the iranian rial to the u.s. dollar before and after the war, it is one tragic footnote -- it is a reality we have to confront.

because the policy has not worked. interest in have an overturning the regional balance. if the u.s. does have interests across the region, even if it is merely maintaining stability, that will run up directly against this iranian challenge. i am not promoting the military option, not promoting any certain option over another. we have to be very sober and clear right dealing with the iranian threat what risks are worth taking, what risks are not . but we have a committed ideological adversary in the region, one warming relations with other power competitors. into the 21st century, regardless of how the u.s. begins to play in this increasingly multi-global world, we will have problems in these hotspots. a major source of problem in the persian gulf will be the islamic republic as a state pressing up against u.s. interests in the region.

in cutting and running, if you have those interests and agree with need to defend them, is not going to be an option. the: behnam ben taleblu of foundation for the defense of democracies. we thank you for your time today. guest: thank you. right pleasure. happy thanksgiving to you and all your callers. host: thank you. the supreme court making a decision late yesterday looking at religious freedom. the washington times right up saying with coronavirus cases surging again, the court barred new york from limiting attendance at churches and synagogues in areas resonated as hit hard by the virus. the justices split with the new justice in the majority. that churches and synagogues in the areas in queens previously in orange and yellow zones, that is where the

state cap's attendance, but those particular areas are now designated as yellow zones which neither group challenged. that the judges temporally barred new york from the resections while they while losses continue. what do you think about these gatherings go on despite a spike? if you think they should continue, (202) 748-8000. maybe you think they should not continue. (202) 748-8001. you can call on the lines. you can text us. and you can post on social media. we will take those calls went "washington journal" continues. ♪ ♪

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♪ watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government. created by america's television companies as a public service and brought to you by your television provider. >> "washington journal" continues. host: in the wall street journal, they write about not only the decision made in new york's case but how this could involvingr cases religious assembly. this is from stephanie yang and others, setting up to 20 cases involving houses of worship in states including nevada, new jersey, and oregon could be affected by the supreme court's decision. it will undoubtedly have a major and undoubtedly decisive -- affect.

he believes courts will be more likely to rule in favor of religious groups after the supreme court decision. from what i read, the5-4 ruling implementing order from andrew, that injures or -- introduced restrictions on houses of worship impacted by cases of coronavirus. your thoughts on this in the final portion of the program today. we start with rob in independence, missouri, who opposes these gatherings. go ahead. caller: i am not sure why the -- these samesaid assertions are also on restaurants and other businesses. -- sorry, the church the supreme court is, in essence, inaccurate in their decision.

and republicans have been packing the supreme court for many years. the supreme court has handed down decisions like hobby lobby -- they have the right to not allow women to get contraceptives, because they are religious or whatever. so we continue to blur the lines between church and state, and i think that this is very wrong for this country, and we are going in the wrong direction. i hope we can do something to reverse that. matthew in illinois, a supporter of these gatherings. of the i am a supporter fact that we need the lord's power, or to whomever we pray to. it is a basic necessity and right we have. the only thing that gets me or worries me about going to church in times like this is possibly

spreading the virus further. but i do agree with churches organized timeslots to come in and pray. , a war ofike this biblical matter, we need god. we need his strength. no matter from where we pray, i believe he does hear us. he will once again save the day. host: let's go to maryland, and opposer of these gatherings. caller: good morning. i consider myself a religious person. i still attend religious services. my pastor has a service online every sunday. we have bible study every week. we have discipleship class every week. so i attend church. church is not the place. it is the people. i am so upset that people are

saying they are religious are going to put not only themselves in danger just to go to a building, but they are also putting me in danger. churches, when you go to it, you are sitting near people. different from walmart, because walmart, you are keeping six feet distance and you have a mask on. there is a different activity that goes on in church. so i am so upset that we, as church people, are too selfish to say i am going to miss hugging you today until everyone else and this pandemic passes. i think that was a bad decision the court's made. host: from wyoming, supporter. linda, hi. caller: hi. my opinion and all of this is people have their own brains, their own reasoning to decide for themselves what they feel is best.

are the places that they can communicate to god and connect with other believers. to be told by other people that they cannot do such things goes against the very basis of freedoms for this country. there are so many people now trying to control what other people think, and they are trying to say, well, you are too stupid, you don't know what's best for you. insult to soolute many people in this country. they have absolutely the right to decide what is best for them to do. are alsohese people taking into consideration their thoughts about what is best for other people too. they are doing precautions. host: from california, georgia on our opposed line. caller: thank you.

good morning. i am very much opposed to these type of decisions, because all these people keep talking about -- about freedom, yet they do not want to talk about the responsibilities imposed with those freedoms. if you want to exercise your freedom to go to church, to not wear a mask, do not go to a hospital when you get sick and crowded up for the people who have acted responsibly. editorials,arious about the decision made by the supreme court, the daily news out of new york saying the unsigned opinion by the nation's highest court got it wrong, insisting that the restrictions put in place by governor cuomo must be nullified for they violate the first amendment. the dissent by sonja mayor got it right. anti-people or less is actually more generous for faith-based institutions than

for any other type. writing that new york treats houses of worship far more favorably than their secular compatriots -- comparators. if you go to the wall street journal, that is their lead editorial, the decision by the supreme court. the editors write that while the 5-4 order is welcome, it is disappointing that number was not 9-0. new york's restrictions are so overbroad and arbitrary that the violation of the free exercise call -- closet should be an easy call. it is increasingly clear that, as we learn more about the virus, too many governors have needlessly infringed on basic rights and to many judges have acquiesced. americans should welcome the supreme court back at the ramparts as defenders of liberty. lily and ohio who opposes these gatherings. good morning. lily in ohio, hello?

we will try one more time. we'll go to ken, columbus, ohio, supporter of these events. caller: good morning. i think if we would get back to the constitution, we would all be better off. rather than going off on all of these far-flung opinions. in this time, when people are gathering all over the place for all kinds of reasons, some are sanctions, some are not, and so forth, but for example, like your caller earlier, talking about the republicans have been packing the supreme court. they have been replacing people on the supreme court. they have not been packing it. a lot of the -- host: specifically the reason you support these gatherings? give me a specific. caller: people should have freedom to go and worship god together.

period. it is guaranteed in the constitution. host: ok. john, niagara falls, new york, on our opposed line. caller: one of the things is we should use common sense. they doder buildings, not have the air filtration systems in order to knock down whichan the hepa filters, milligrams. the thing is, all over the country, there is a spike. what did we just have, a month ago? pre-voting. and stand ingo out lines all the way around the block, then go into buildings that do not have proper

ventilation systems, and now, three weeks later, we have this huge, all over the country, spike in coronavirus. same thing happens in theaters, churches, etc., because our ventilation systems have not been designed for the covid virus. we need to use common sense. john in niagara falls. we will go to jeffrey, in mississippi, also on our oppose line. caller: hello. i have one comment. i believe you can believe in science and believe in god at the same time. host: why do you oppose religious gatherings at this time? caller: well, they tend to be

super spreaders. host: that is jeffrey in mississippi. op-ed in the in an new york times -- part of it looked at these religious gatherings, which pope francis writes, with some exceptions, governments have put great efforts to put the well-being of their peoples first, acting decisively to save lives, yet some groups protested, refusing to keep their distance, marching against travel decisions, as if measures that governments must impose for the good of their people constitute some type of political assault on autonomy or personal freedom. isking to the common good much more than the sum of what is good for individuals. it means having a regard for all citizens and seeking to respond effectively. again, that op-ed from the pope.

i just wanted to say that you can serve god anywhere. you can go outside and south out and not be enclosed in places. serve god, and if you do not go in -- when you spread covid, you kill other people, regardless who you are. if you're going to go about the bible, that should not kill. when you spread covid, that is killing. please take that in consideration. if you get too close together and spread your germs of covid and kill people, that is killing. that is one of the commandments. do not kill. host: jim in pensacola, florida, who supports these gatherings. caller: i did not hear the whole details about the gatherings, but in florida -- i am a catholic.

i've had no problems with regards to harmony between faith and science. we have had separation in our churches, mask ordering, and we can have as many people as we can possibly get in the building under those restrictions. down here are different buildings, like restaurants have different numbers as to how many people can be gathered in the building, like walmart and stuff like that. there is no set number for all buildings. it is kind of reasonable down here. i have nothing against religious gatherings as long as there is harmony between science and faith. from jane,ll hear santa fe, new mexico -- james, santa fe, new mexico. caller: i am a retired navy chaplain. one of the reasons why they have chaplains in the military is because the first amendment of the constitution, which the

government not interfere with the free exercise of religion. if the supreme court made their decision to not allow people to gather and keep in churches, then why not have -- why not allow churches to form militias? host: the court's decision specifically was three new york -- to new york. the larger issue of religious gatherings is what we're talking about, which you say you oppose. caller: i do. if you go to a church and get covid and give it to someone else in a super spread of event, i do not know the difference is between that and forming a militia to go kill people. and one other thing -- we do restrict, for instance, having polygamy in churches. that is not legal. a supert legal to do spreader event because the supreme court said you have to be able to gather anything you want, in religious organizations, but we will

restrict grocery stores, close gymnasiums, all these other super spreader events, but churches, you can do all you want to do to spread all you want. host: let's go to new jersey, supporter. caller: good morning. happy post thanksgiving. i am a real churchgoer. i got each and every week. my church opened at a limited basis. even at the best of time, church participation has dropped off in a very disappointing manner. i think the supreme court made a ruling, but it is really incomplete. what they should have done is listed -- lifted the restriction andthe mentation is on it with some sort of provision, where you have to safeguard , wouldthat enter church feel safe when sitting and participating in the religious ceremony. but my church is open.

a completepose shutdown, but i think the supreme court just left this ruling without any specification. again, it will put states in turmoil as to what the boundaries are. host: speaking of some of those estates, fox news saying it was the harvest rock church in california turning to the court to block an order from governor newsom restricting the number of people legally permitted to gather in houses of worship during the pandemic. california has a tiered system that places different levels of restrictions on different counties. but 41 counties in the states represent a 94% of the state's population were under the most restricted regulations. the state issued specific guidance or places of worship earlier this year. if you go to the website for wd rb in kentucky, it highlights

the fact that governor beshear asked the federal appeals court to move with lightning speed tow from religious schools returning to school immediately. day motionanksgiving where lawyers for the governors said that kentucky would experience harm if religious schools were allowed back monday. you can participate on a twitter poll on our twitter feed, @cspanwj. when it comes to religious gatherings, you can choose a support or oppose. 63% of you saying you oppose these gatherings. you can put your own input on our twitter feed, @cspanwj. also comment on the feed. margaret in wisconsin on our oppose line.

caller: i have a couple of points i wanted to make. i do oppose the religious gatherings. if they are not following the covid restrictions. i also think the supreme court got it wrong, because they are ruling on a freedom, but this is only a temporary situation. it is not like the religious freedom to gather is being taken away eternally. it is during the pandemic. if you want to take the greater good over the lesser people, -- , to me, it makes sense. and i believe if everyone does not wear our mask or follow the restrictions because they feel like their freedoms are being infringed upon, then that is making their freedoms more important than my freedom to be safe. i also feel that if they want to do this, that is fine, but then back up their claims by signing a paper saying that they will

not seek medical help, because it is a slap in the face to all the medical people that put their lives on the line every day, to take care of the covid patients, especially ones who do not follow the restrictions. host: thank you. virginia in tallahassee, florida, supporter. caller: hi. i totally agree with the gal that was just speaking. it is not a black-and-white issue. i support the need for people to go to church for the psychological and emotional support during this difficult time, with conditions. going to disney, had a great time. the first risky behavior i got into in all these months. social distancing, excellent. maintained heavy amount of sanitizer all over the place. a mask wearing. one thing i will add is a must do, regardless of what event you are going to, being near people, is it is shameful that the n95

production has been so slow and that we actually shift tons of that type of protection overseas in february. so with the right protection, we can go to church. we can go anywhere, i think, with 98%, 99% protection n95 masks and social distancing. we can make it happen safely. that is the thing. host: ok. a quick sidebar -- the president appearing before cameras in talking to reporters very briefly yesterday at the white house, also saying, during his if the what happens electoral college picks joe biden as president, here is part of that exchange. [video clip] >> if they do, they have made a mistake, because this election was a fraud.

this election was a fraud. they had a bite in -- they had obama's vote in areas that mattered, let -- yet he is losing to obama all over the place but beating obama in swing states. i cannot say that at all. i think it is a possibility -- between you people -- would not talk to me that way. you are just a lightweight. i am the president of the united states. do not ever talk to the president that way. i will go with another question. >> are you not going to leave this building? >> certainly i will. you know that. but i think there will be a lot of things happening between now and the 20th of january, a lot of things. host: much more during that

exchange. you can see it right after this program. you can also revisit it at our website at c-span.org. a few more minutes on religious gatherings. on our oppose line, we will hear from charles, maryland. caller: thank you for taking my call. first, i want to say what a despicable human being the president is. what a despicable human being. you notice in that conference he had, he was like do not give joe the scientificr achievements, yet you do not hear this sick, dirty, rotten, stinking human being -- host: you can revisit that after the program, but the religious gatherings, what you think about that? caller: it is because of the president that you have these idiots running around talking about their religious rights, because they want to say, well, we have a right, a

constitutional right -- as a christian, my obligation is to love my neighbor the way i love myself. , we arely love myself in an international pandemic which is killing more americans than any other country in the world. over 60% of these people dying are black or people of color. if you really love your neighbor, you would not worry about going to church and being a super spreader. host: that is charles. we will go to lonnie, a supporter of these events. caller: i am kind of torn between the ruling yesterday and religious freedoms. notsaid that the church is in a building, it is in yourself. these people who believe they can gather without catching

he leansus -- god said on the just and the unjust, and do not tempt the lord. satanthat what jesus told , when satan had him on a mountain and said jump? trump started- this whole mess. trump is not religious. these people know he is letting hundreds of thousands of people die. he said obey the law the land. the law of the land said wear our mask. host: ok. call on our support line and also, that will end this program. thank you for watching today. another program comes your way tomorrow at 7:00. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.

visit ncicap.org] ♪ >>, the conclusion of an interview with historian harold on the relationship between the media and u.s. presidents. abouts program talks presidents from franklin donald trump donald --.p donald trump to donald trump >> you're watching c-span. as a public service and brought you by your television provider.

>> tonight, a hearing on the smithsonian him, the women's museum and the national museum of the latino -- the american patina. highlighting the experience of women and latinos to be included in american history. watch that tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span here -- here on c-span. hears u.s. supreme court oral argument in trump versus new york monday at 10 a.m. eastern. they will hear if trump has the not include -- here it on c-span.org or the c-span radio app. tuesday, steven mnuchin and jerome powell testified before the